The paradox of guys like Scott Hahn and Jimmy Akin, for me: is this:
There are few people more detested by the TRVLY REFORMED conservators of 16th Century Calvinist zealotry inside the anti-Catholic Apologetics Bubble than these guys and similar graduates from the Reformed tradition into the fullness of the Catholic faith. Vast oceans of electrons are spent trying to argue them down in the Calvinist apologetics subculture since they are traitors to Calvinism who swam the Tiber, etc. ad nauseam.
Yet, speaking only for myself, the fact is that if it weren’t for those two in particular, I would have an ungovernable contempt, loathing, and hatred of Calvinism and all its works and ways. Why? Pretty simple. My encounters with Calvinism have consisted of a) meeting people who are cockily sure of their own election and yet b) unable to answer the question “Does God love me?” for the honest seeker after Christ. That’s because the Diagram provides no answer to that cry of the human heart. If the seeker is elect, then yeah, God loves ‘em. But if not… well, in the words of guys like TurretinFan “God want[s] men to sin.” Sorry, pal. You didn’t win the inscrutable cosmic lottery and God wants you to sin so he can damn you to everlasting loss and pain.
I encountered such destructive filth at a very fragile and vulnerable time in my life and it nearly destroyed my faith. Consequently, when I discovered how much of a lie it is, founded on the ridiculous fiction of sola scriptura and responsible for the ruin of so many tortured souls like William Cowper’s, I conceived a deep hatred of it that lasted for several years. It was only in encountering former Calvinists like Hahn and Akin who, while clearly aware of the problems with Calvinism, could still see the good in it, that I was able to soften a bit toward Calvinists, if not toward Calvinism. (To my embarrassment, I don’t think I’ve ever properly thanked either Jimmy or Scott for this, so allow me to do so publically here. They were agents of grace who have enabled me to forgive people against whom I had a deep anger, and I appreciate that!)
Yet, on the other hand, it is precisely these two guys who humanized Calvinists for me whom the TRVLY REFORMED loathe the most. So, I dunno: maybe the whole thing is the revolting system of devil worship I’ve always taken it for. At any rate, based on things like Jimmy’s ”A Tiptoe Through TULIP”, what seems to me obvious is that the good things in Calvinism are the things it retains from the Catholic Tradition, while the evil and destructive things in Calvinism are, well, the Calvinism. The more a Calvinist embraces the Catholic heritage in his system, the more human he becomes—like Hahn and Akin. The more he emphasizes Calvinism against what is Catholic in his system, the more he becomes the sort of person who says demented and evil things like “God wants men to sin”.
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Mark,
Former Calvinist here. We’ve got a whole group blog of former Calvinists at www.calledtocommunion.com :-) You should pop in some time.
Thanks for reminding everyone that there IS some good in Calvinism.
Calvin? Wasn’t he the guy who replaced Divine Love as the CENTER of Revelation with GOD’S GLORY, (as if God has some need to show his muscles) and did that with the hideous doctrine of double predestinationism with no free will? BUT GOD REVEALED THAT HE WAS LOVE AND THAT CHARITY OR DIVINE LOVE WAS THE CENTER OF ALL CHRISTIAN REVELATION AND LIFE. This displacement speaks volumes about Calvin, whose religious immagination and mind was apparently not very aware of the love of God.ERROR AT THE SOURCE MUDDIES EVERYTHING AFTER IT!
Every error can only reside in some truth; every evil can only exist in some good. The SOME GOOD in Calvinism NEEDS TO BE UNITED TO THE FULL GOOD OF CATHOLICISM, WHERE IT WILL THEN CONTRIBUTE TO THE GROWTH OF SANCTITY FOR ALL.
Pete:
I could have sworn I just said that.
Blaming Sola Scriptura for Cowper’s depression? Come on, I could easily find some poor Catholic who lived a troubled life and blame his or her troubles on this or that doctrine of the Catholic Church. Would it be fair? Heck no.
I’m a Calvinist and I take great comfort in the doctrine of Sola Scriptura. That doesn’t prove it true, but neither does Cowper’s depression prove it false. There are better ways to argue a point then to disparage an opposite viewpoint on such a basis. Unfortunately, it seems when the armies of Catholicism and Calvinism meet on the field of intellectual combat, it often degenerates into name calling and aiming for easy targets instead of calm and collected conversation. I guess we just can’t leave the religious wars that accompanied the rise of Protestantism in the past, can we? But then, those wars more more political than religious anyway, they simply used religion as a rallying cry to further the goals of wicked men on both sides of the Tiber.
Peace and bless.
No. Calvinism is founded on Sola Scriptura. What destroyed Cowper was Calvin’s ugly predestinarianism.
Seriously Mark? So we should track down everyone taking anti-depression medication and find out how their belief system is what is actually behind their problems? No possibility that Cowper didn’t suffer from a chemical imbalance that could have been remedied with modern medications? Cowper’s depression about his eternal condition was not caused by Predestination, rather, it was through that belief that Cowper’s illness expressed itself.
Many Catholics that I’ve heard express similar doubts regarding their salvation on the grounds that to do so would be to commit the sin of presumption. Not sure if that would actually violate a Catholic doctrine, but I’ve heard at least one priest refuse to say that he would definitely go to heaven when he dies on those very grounds. Yet this wonderful priest does not fear or suffer because of this. Instead, he trusts God. On the other hand, a dear Catholic family friend expressed much fear and doubt regarding her soul for just such reasons in the years leading up to her death. Blaming either the Calvinist doctrine of predestination or the Catholic doctrine of presumption for someone’s depression is unfair. Especially when the vast majority of adherents can express belief in those doctrines with full trust in God’s ability to save.
It’s easy to find ways to vilify opposing perspectives, especially when some adherents to those opposing perspectives are vocally vilifying your own beliefs. It would be easy, for instance, for me as a Calvinist to build an argument that Catholicism is wrong because it’s rigid policy regarding clerical celibacy has led to abusive priests. This, of course, would be intellectually dishonest because you can’t judge based on the misdeeds of a small minority or a single individual. Likewise, predestination should stand on it’s own merits as a doctrine and not on how many people may or may not have experienced fear or depression over the doctrine.
Peace and Bless
I am a former Calvinist who has a great deal of sympathy still (along with many frustrations) for my former Reformed faith. After a devout Pentecostal upbringing that left on pins and needles with God, terrified that the slightest sin would cause me to lose my salvation and miss the rapture, discovering Calvinism at 18 brought me a tremendous amount of peace. Embracing Reformed Christianity reawakened faith in me at a time when it was about to flicker out. Although a love for history and liturgy instigated my long journey out of the Reformed tradition (I gave Catholicism a decade of consideration but eventually became Orthodox), I will always fondly look back upon my time as a Calvinist and encourage others to treat it as charitably as I can.
my first serious encounter with Calvinism was a history class, where we read the diaries (or excerpts of them) of people who lived in the period of history we studied.
One diary spoke with moving anguish about the burning death of their child, who had caught fire from the fire place. and his great fear that their other children would do likewise.
why didnt they put a grate in front of the fire? take steps to prevent it?
because this was a Calvinist, and devout believer in predestination. there being no free will, and all deaths and injury being “at the will of God” they could therefore only hope that no other children burned to death.. it was *pointless* to make any improvements or safeguards….. to “act” for themselves.
many years later i tried to take a new view of Calvinism. The doubled nature of Predestination always appalled me. sorry, the concept that God had already decided to send the majority of people to hell, that he COULD have saved them, but did not… but chose to save these others.. that salvation was not offered to all, to be accepted or rejected by us, but instead was doled out by a miser God….
thats what drove me into Paganism.
the idea that God was a miser, who was only letting a handful of his people even have a chance at heaven, and happily sending the majority of us to be damned, with no chance? ask any pagan out there… thats their view of Christianity.
Thank God for a good Catholic example,
Lynn Hunter… May Eternal Light shine upon her and grant her peace.
@Kirsten
Unfortunately, ignorance knows no boundaries. I’m sure that a reading of diaries of Catholics from the same period of history as your anecdotal Calvinist’s diary would reveal a similar degree of ignorance regarding the world and how it works. Blaming ignorance on Calvinism is silliness. Just as there are examples of ignorance to be found in the lives of Calvinists (or the adherents of any other theological system for that matter,) there is also much that we can find inspiration from. William Wilberforce, a Calvinist, did not simply sit back believing it to be *pointless* to do anything regarding the English slave trade. Instead he spent his life in the successful pursuit of putting that evil to death.
Peace and Bless
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