Ever since I realized what had happened to the traditional religious orders like the Sisters of Notre Dame de Namur and of St. Joseph who taught me as a child in Massachusetts, I have pitied those unsung sisters who I imagined wouldn’t go along with the dreadful rethinking of values and mores that happened after Vatican II. Those who authentically were devoted to the truths of the Catholic faith and to the values for which they joined the convent, they must have suffered secret martyrdom as they were intellectually bullied, devalued, marginalized, forced to take off their habits and go to Masses where sacrileges were performed. Not to mention their having to suffer the execrable bad taste of the new fashions that replaced the old. I’m thinking of a liturgy at a Franciscan retreat house where sisters in sweat shirts danced up the aisle holding “the gifts,” and the priest stood in our midst as he acted out the gospel and proceeded to contradict what Jesus had said in that gospel because a theologian had asserted that Jesus wasn’t against divorce.

If you belong to an organization that has changed it’s mission since you joined, stop sending them membership fees and withdraw your name from their roster. The only organization you need to belong to is the religious community you promised yourself to. Any Catholic who belongs to Freemasonry is automatically excommunicated. Their membership there declares they place Freemasonry above their loyalty to God. Since LCWR has publicly opposed The Church on Abortion, your membership in that organization speaks for you without a word said.

As the recipient of an education by the Dominican Sisters of St. Cecilia (Nashville Dominicans) who continue to teach at our school in Cincinnati, I have to say, what the media reports is awful.  Faithful, joy-filled, loving women are who we encounter through the Dominican Sisters.  They (and orders living in community) are whom the media should be speaking too regarding the Vatican’s report.  My experience of knowing these women and at one time contemplating a vocation with them, allows me to know they are True Women of Faith living their vows lovingly…..just as any truly loving Spouse of Christ would…and honoring the Church.

I would love to see a comprehensive list of those “religious orders” that are represented by LCWR.  I think it would a good start. I often see websites of “religious orders” that frankly shock me. One can readily tell where their hart truly is.

Why the Vatican has a PR problem when it attempts to discipline nuns who don’t agree with Church doctrine or parishes who sponsor Girl Scout troops—http://www.patheos.com/blogs/deaconsbench/2011/11/cardinal-laws-birthday-bash/

Who can fail to see that rewarding Bernard Law with the position of archpriest of the Basilica of St. Mary Major in Vatican City while publicly scolding dissenting nuns (who are NOT accused of enabling rapists)is a big moral problem for just about anybody. I’d be willing to bet that pedophile priests and the pedophile cover-up have lost far more Catholics to the church (and therefore, presumably, salvation) than the nuns of the LCWR. But Law has been rewarded with resources, legal protection, and honors.

As in any other corporation, the CEOs of the Church will never pay a penalty—it will always be the underlings who suffer, and the donations of the little people who get the CEOs off the hook. That nasty media is always pointing this out. That nasty media is so . . . inconveniently correct.

Kevin, I agree with you.  If you are an order of women religious that knows that the organization that represents you has gone off the deep end, withdraw from it. For religious orders to gain the trust and respect they used to have from the laity, they should publicly announce that they have withdrawn from LCWR.  Why do they need this organization anyway? It boggles my mind that religious continue to be a part of this feminist, Vatican-hating, moral-decaying organization.  A lot of Christ’s ‘brides’ will have a lot of explaining to do when they meet Him in the not too distant future.

Sheila, on the surface this seems like a black and white issue. However, the majority own little, and are often older and infirm. Many don’t have savings accounts, assets, income, or the relationships necessary to make a shift that would be no less than gut wrenching for them. As well, some stay because the desire to care for their infirm members. It really is a tough situation that warrants prayer and resources from those who can offer either.

Dan, perhaps I was misunderstood.  I meant that religious orders should withdraw from the LCWR, not individuals from their orders or religious life.

Sheila - yes, I did misunderstand you. You are right. They should join the Counsel of Major Superiors of Women Religious. http://www.cmswr.org/

My Society of priests and Brothers recently witnessed a PART of the membership (who meet together regularly at our headquarters) decide that they should write (publish?) a letter in support of the nuns.  They will finish collecting names of members who would sign the letter.  This constitutes a resemblance to nuns’ communities and the LCWR as an organization.  A PART of each membership misinterprets Church authority and points a finger of blame, all in the name inevitably of their organization.  Who will correct the PARTS?

I am so thankful to you for writing on this.  The media surely is having a big part in misrepresenting th
issues.  Pope Benedict is correct.  He would rather have a smaller church of the faithful, and I don’t think
the time of 5 years will solve the problem.  In my parish there are several who have been praying
at the intercessions for the"poor nuns”, I hope they mean the ones you have written about, but from their
voices it does not sound like it.
Once again, thanks

The Magisterium correcting wayward religous orders is not ‘an attack’.  Faithful Catholics know that to be a Spiritual Work of Mercy.

Thank you for a well informed, well written, article!  I have long known the the leadership has not represented the large number of women religious they so love repeating to the media.  And I have long respected the women religious who taught me when I was young, and those I later saw working so hard in parishes as I moved for work (those in traditional habit, modified habit, and no habit).
I was sorely disappointed by an article some months ago by the local paper covering a very small turnout of protesters in front of the Cathedral of Christ the Light, Oakland, CA supporting the LCWR.  One sign read “Our sisters’ wear sensible shoes, not Prada” -an obvious, but incorrect, allusion to the red shoes the Holy Father wears (he gets his shoes from Adriano Stefanelli, a cobbler in Novara, Italy).
What bothered me most about the sign is that I also know a number of sisters, who also do good work (I am thinking in particular of Sister Maureen-Theresa McRoddy, RHSM -who, by the way, does a great job as Dean of Students and Admissions at SAT) but dress as well as my mother did when she was working as a bank manager.
It is also interesting to note, and I mean no disrespect to any other groups, that those sisters who live in community, practice a corporate apostlelate, and wear a recognizable habit, are the communities experiencing the greatest growth.

I have long known that the *LCWR has not *fully represented the large number of women religious they so love repeating to the media.

The NC Register is the ONLY place with factual, thoughtful information on the LCWR debacle. Thank you so very much for all your efforts.  I understand Ann Carey is working on a new edition of her book, “Sisters in Crisis” which you mention in your article.  It will include the LCWR topic, no doubt. Ann’s articles here on NCReg. have also been a blessing.
Keep up the good work.

Those individuals and “non-profit” organizations that run mainstream media have never been and will never be friends of Jesus Christ and His true Church; plain and simple.  After all, “What is Truth?” is their mantra. The sooner Catholics understand the battle they are in, the better. Catholics have been and will always be at war with the powers of darkness, and they need to understand that nice words, dialogue, moderation, are the work of the darkness and do not win souls.

Re: cowalker
Search LCWR sex abuse scandal on Fr. Z’s blog and you will find evidence that many nuns of the LCWR have been credibly accused of beastly and even more horrific abuse of the children placed in their care. You will also find that their response to these victims has made the bishops look exemplary by comparison.  The media does not for some reason, seem very interested in this particular scandal. Why do you think that might be?

“If you belong to an organization that has changed it’s mission since you joined, stop sending them membership fees and withdraw your name from their roster.”

Indeed, that would explain the parade of Catholics leaving the Church for other groups who place the teachings of Jesus ahead of political power—the exchange the Vatican and USCCB appear to have chosen instead.

Moving someone from a major metropolitan see to a ceremonial post in Rome is a “reward”? If it happened to someone the “media” approve of, we would be told that he was “kicked upstairs”.

To the person above who asked about a comprehensive list of members of the LCWR: just go to the LCWR website.  they provide a comprehensive list of their members.

So Benedict XVI would prefer a smaller and purer church.  What about:  Go ye into all the world and preach my Gospel to all the nations?

Finding the member congregations of LCWR is not an easy task. I have tried numerous times, but after Michelle’s post, I decided to give it another try. I finally found it.  Go the very bottom of their website.  After ‘contact us’, next is ‘links’.  Click on links, and the member congregations comes up. It is frightening how extensive the list is.

Benedict XVI has expressed desire for a smaller and purer church.  How do we read “Go ye into all the world and preach my Gospel to every creature?”

None of this would have transpired if the Church had not been internally corrupted by ‘bernardin’ & his ilk since the 60’s.  These politically correct, social justice, seamless garment deviates have run amuck for over 50 years & their shepherds stood silent or in many instances encouraged them.  The USCCB can’t even keep its own house in order, millions donated to them to help the poor are squandered on anti-Catholic groups through the totally corrupt CCHD & CRS.  When faithful Catholics complain the ‘bernardin’ cronies, still in positions of authority, belittle them & refuse to clean out the ‘alinsky’ trained, usually non-Catholics, that they let manage these programs.  The LCWR should have been shut down decades ago.  Rome should also take a serious look inside the USCCB !

The church has been to hell and back many times, and still survived.  On the other hand the reformation churches have led to endless divisions in Christianity.  I do not know why liberals want to embrace ideas that have caused nothing but division.

I do agree that Rome needs to stop playing nice to so many of these dissenters.

Gloria,

Making disciples is not the same as making followers. Disciples can take a disciplined stand, followers only chase behind what is popular.

Every four years we’re treated to the presidential primaries, a break with the Summer Olympics, some comedy with the nominating conventions and then the “regular season” as MSNBC’s Joe Scarborough described the final swing of quadrennial presidential election season spectacle. We also get to watch the Church’s usual “round up the usual suspects” and shut ‘em up treatment if these suspects happen to be Catholic liberals. (Oh yes, I’ve been made aware one cannot be a “true son of the Church and a liberal at the same time.”)
Now nuns, nuns(!)aren’t just getting this treatment and not so subtle hint as to where Catholics like myself who are becoming more liberal can take that liberalism. They’re not just getting it from old timers, or even so-called “cradle Catholics,” or returnees (which is more accurate and approbos than “revert”) like myself, who, when they returned, were just as full of their newly regained spirt of enthusiasm mixed in with too much fire n’ brimstone, and feeling like we’re here as well to help set the place straight.
Come to think of it, there was a good reason St. Paul was sent packing off to the desert for a while by God before He could unleash one of the least popularly regarded converts to the “general public” and the leaders of His Church.
Oh, I get upset with the moribund quality of the Masses, the still excessive stranglehold of the Kumbayas on the one hand, and the “we know it all starchy-archy-conservatives” on the other. The Liturgy still has much to catch up when compared to what you’ll find in the 1978 Book of Common Prayer disliked so much by so many old-timers in the Episcopal Church. And of course, the music, the bland hand-us-down mediocrities of the 60s and early 70s vintage attempts at hymnody ... it just stinks. I’m harsh, but it smacks of the kind of stuff some ever-well meaning schoolmarmish librarian or choir director would “recommend” in much the same tone as a bossy nurse when she orders for you, a tray packed every night with Tapioca “desert” after the “main meal” of chipped beef on rice with gravy. S..t on a shingle.
But going after nuns? C’mon, what’s THIS. The same nuns who teach our kids for zilch day in and day out; work in the church’s insane wards, teach in our shrinking number of medical schools and put up with whiny college students upset with their grades who’ll think nothing of strutting their stuff by pulling on Mom n’ Dad’s purse strings to weasel a higher than deserved grade with the old “Do you know who I am” garbage. (Future pols or big shot lawyers/lobbyists and profs on the rise…that’s for sure.)
Nuns?
Before this goes any further, I strongly recommend both the Vatican and its American bishops to take time out to chill out and watch “Good Night and Good Luck” the excellent movie about Edward R. Morrow’s historic clash with “the junior senator from Wisconsin,” (as Morrow said to put him in his place) no less than Joe McCarthy.
McCarthy was prince among Catholics, especially my tribe, the Gaels, during the depths, or cesspool level, of the Cold War and Second Red Scare in the decade following WWII. But when Morrow took McCarthy apart in April,‘54, pffffft, McCarthy’s tire started losing air, rapidly so. Deservedly so.
If it ever comes to the day of “loyalty oaths” to be taken by every single parishioner, count me out. It won’t be a proper oath doing justice to God any more than those Mafia-like oaths guys like Grover Norquist bully Republican pols into signing do justice to anybody who understands and treasures the necessary and decent steps to be taken in the formation of a civic foundation to serve a well ordered and free civil society.
C’mon, the Church over here (and back at the Vatican) can do better than to start brow-beating nuns.
Strange, the Church seldom makes an public attempts to rein in the likes of Larry Kudlow, Newt Gingrich, Laura Ingraham. Got it now; celebrity converts who only seem to have been required to leave their past religious affiliations at the door, not their odious political and economic opinions that cut sharply against the grain of hundreds, if not thousands of years worth of Catholic Teaching Traditions.
Stevensays, Leave the Nuns Alone, or I’m getting out my thick Big Box retail store ruler.

Steve,

Please relax, this is not about politics, but doctrine.

Not all nuns want to negotiate doctrine and moving beyond Jesus.  The ones who do are asking for a confrontation. The nuns in the CSMWR in the U.S. are being left alone, because they are not waging a war on basic Christology, based on their New Age fantasies.  Please understand the issues, before you comment on them.

Gloria says ‘So Benedict XVI would prefer a smaller and purer church.  What about:  Go ye into all the world and preach my Gospel to all the nations?’
But I say: But Gloria, that is the point, if many of these nuns don’t believe in the Gospel, they certainly are not teaching it to all the nations. Jesus ‘attacked’ the pharisees of his time for teachings that went beyond what God taught. Likewise many of these sisters in the LCWR seem to be following the pharisees example rather than that of those who followed Jesus. Jesus taught the importance of meekness and Paul taught how important it was to follow the teachings of the apostles. These sisters would be wise to follow these recommendations.

Barbara Max Hubbard was the keynote speaker at their conference in St Louis, as mentioned. She proposed an Idea which she calls “conscious evolution”. As Fr Mitch Pacwa mentioned this is new age and he discussed some problems with this. My major concerns with new age and their speaker and ideas such as “Conscious evolution”, etc. is that it often comes from a Gnostic tendency. Gnosticism, of course, was that ancient heresy the church first fought in which, among other things, it was thought that the way to salvation was through a gradual process of gaining “Higher knowledge”, an expanded consciousness, or in our day such things as “Conscious evolution”. The danger I see here is a type of gnostic pride in which a person can come to see that they have a higher knowledge or a deeper understanding of truth than the “ordinary” ones do. When this happens a person can first become infected with a type of pride which is dangerous. And after they become infected with this pride they can become convinced, either as individuals or as groups that they have superior ideas, knowledge, etc. And even in the church, when persons come to believe they have superior knowledge or understanding they can come to believe that they don’t need to listen or to follow those they consider “less evolved” and this can even affect person’s willingness to obey the persons that God in His mercy has placed in authority over us to give us guidance and to protect us from error.  The solution, I believe is for us to have that mind that the Apostle Paul spoke of in which he was not ashamed of Jesus Christ and Him crucified and he vowed to always preach only Jesus Christ and Him crucified. We should be aware of the new age and Gnostic tendencies.
In this dialog in response to this “Assessment” the good nuns must share their ideas and their “wisdom” but they should be encouraged to remember that God and His church, even in it’s imperfections in greater than any wisdom that any of us think we have, and to be willing to obey in the end if the church asks that of you if there is disagreement.
And I have had experiences with both the good orthodox nuns and with those “religious” who have gone off on the new age tangents. And it is sad to have seen so many go after such folly when there is no greater Truth and no greater mercy than Jesus Christ and Him crucified, our only hope of salvation and what Catherine of Sienna referred to as the cross of Jesus and Him crucified as being the only bridge to salvation over the waters of perdition. May God be praised forever for His goodness and His mercy and do let us pray that God will free so many from the spiritual blindness the “god of this age” would lead many to, as I once was before God had mercy on me.

Bob,

Thank You for sharing. Have you read the Vatican paper on the New Age?  Unlike their personal revelations the church merely preserves the deposit of faith handed down and cannot go beyond it. There is no new Gospel or revelation.

I do not place my faith in the personal sanctity of any human being men or women. But in the church founded by Christ and it’s teachings.

Yes I have read it. It is Jesus Christ Bearer of the waters of life
and the link
http://www.vatican.va/roman_curia/pontifical_councils/interelg/documents/rc_pc_interelg_doc_20030203_new-age_en.html

I have not commented on some of the other issues of the Assessment such as Feminism, etc but have focused on the new age issues as I am most informed about this. And I consider this issue as the basic one as it involves how we are to be saved. That is, do we need to depend on the Atoning death of Jesus on the cross or is there another gospel we are to believe in. And I remember reading of The words of St John of the Cross, probably the most well known and respected Catholic mystic, on his deathbed. His brothers reminded him of all the good he had done, and his response was “Don’t think of that now but I Hope to be saved by the blood of Christ.” And if great saints needed to rely on His blood for their salvation, how much more should we not be so foolish as to think we can get “beyond Jesus”.  As St Paul reminds us in Galatians Chapter 2 vs 21, that if it is possible to be saved by works, that is, some other way, than Christ died to no purpose. And let us not insult the most sorrowful passion of Our Lord by denying it’s importance for our salvation. Yes the good works of many of the nuns is important but apart from Christ they are not enough. so let us continue to pray for them.

Nuns for choice sickens me almost as much as Fr. Grochels comments.

Liberalism ha no place in Christ’s church.  In fact it should have no place in the world.  On Earth as it is in Heaven.

This is how you know you are reading a false doctrine.  They all have one thing in common.  The denial of Christs Divinity.

And when I had wandered off to the folly of past sins, God in His mercy called me back and I remember returning to God and praying a prayer where I confessed that “Jesus is Lord” and that Jesus died for my sins, and I cried and it took awhile to realize how central the Lordship of Jesus and Him crucified is to our faith. So to resist the temptation of pride as in “You shall be like God,” Gen 3, vs 4 it is wise to focus in Christ crucified and to remember that we are only creatures and God is God and we are not.

I agree that priests who abuse children should be prosecuted, and their victims should receive financial compensation and counseling from the Church. However, according to a 2002 study by Penn State Professor Phillip Jenkins (an ex-Catholic, now Episcopalian), over a 20 year period, his research found that married Christian clergy and NON-CLERGY (my emphasis added) were just as likely to abuse minors as Catholic priests. Further, a 2002 study by the American Association of University Women (a liberal advocacy group) found that about 38% of public school students in high school had been sexually harassed or molested by school employees. Such abuse frequently goes unreported. The sisters in the LCWR do some good charitable work, but their dissent from church teaching on abortion isclearly places them in conflict with the our Church’s teaching. I’m an orthodox, not conservative, Catholic. I’m a former life-long Democrat, now a registered Independent, since neither party fully reflects my views. I favor gun control, war only as a last resort, and government assistance to the poor, elderly disabled, veterans, homeless,and other vulnerable people. I also oppose the death penalty, legal abortion (except within the boundaries of church teaching regarding the principle of double effect) and gay marriage. Ironically, I’m gay. I have several gay friends, and we treat each other with respect. I haven’t always been chaste, but have been for most of my life, and have found healing through the Sacrament of Reconciliation. I agree with Obama on some issues, and agree with Romney on others, but I will reluctantly vote for Romney. First, because I abhor the attacks on his religion. My late aunt was a Mormon. Obviously, I don’t agree with the tenets of Mormomism. But she was a loving woman, and not subservient to my uncle. If the President’s HHS regulations stand, Catholic and other religious hospitals will be required to provide emplyoee health benefits which include dispensing abortion drugs. According to a 6/16/12 Associated Press report, on eout of six Americans receive healthcare from Catholic hospitals. When our hospitals close-and sadly, they will- think of the resulting misery. Remaining hospitlas willbe overwhelmed by patients. The pro-life movement is broad-based. It includes the Catholic Church, Lutheran Church Missouri-Synod, Church of the Brethen Orthodox Christians, Southern Baptists, and most Orthodox Jews. (In fairness, some of these faiths favor exceptions to an abortion ban). Even journalist Nat Hentoff, a self-described Jewish atheist and former Board member of the NY Chapter of the American Civil Liberties Union, opposes legal abortion. Yes, it’s true that Romney has changed his stance on abortion. But the same is true for Rev. Jesse Jackson. (See a speech he made against legal abortion-on-demand in the 1977 issue of The National Right to Life News). It’s a little known fact, but Rev. Martin Luther King, though he supported legal contraception, opposed legal abortion-on-demand. This has been confirmed by his niece, Rev. Alveda King, a woman who has had, and regretted, 2 abortions. Any standard medical text will confirm that a new human being comes into existence at the moment of fertilization. The question of ensoulment is irrelevant in our democracy. After all, some young babies die from SIDS, at a time when they are greatly dependent on their parents. Are they any less human? Even Planned Parenthood, in a 1963 pamphlet, “Plan Your Children for Health and Happiness,” stated that “an abortion kills the life of a baby after it has begun.” Planned Parenthood performs over 325,000 annually in our nation, according to their 2010 Annual Report. They provided a mere 841 adoption referrals, and prenatal care to only 31,000 pregant women, and receive huge amounts of federal and state funding. Some 3000 pro-life agencies provide women and their developing babies with compassionate care, often both before and after birth. Our Church has made some mistakes, but according to Matthew 16:13-19, Jesus said to Peter, the first Pope, ““you are Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church, and the gates of the netherworld will not prevail against it. Iwill give the keys to the kingdom of heaven. Whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven; and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.” Other erligious denominations have their failings, too. But I respectfully submit that The Catholic Church is indeed the Church of Christ.

Dear Tim Donovan, as I understand things an Orthodox Jew is one who is really a strict old time Jew. A Conservative Jew is at the other end somewhere. By that standard applied to Catholic Teaching, how do you explain that you are an Orthodox Catholic and support Gay Marriage? Man, you sound like an intelligent person, how can you ignore the Bible saying “It is not lawful for a man to lie down with a man…” and the part or parts where it says that is an abomination to God? And you got St. Peter and his successors with The Magisterium and the Catechism all saying it’s wrong to do that, and you’re saying it’s ok for a man to marry a man!! That’s not just a little sin, it’s an Abomination!

Maybe you don’t know the definition, of Faith as The Catholic Church teaches it, I have a working knowledge of it. I recall especially the punch line, “...I believe ALL that the Catholic Church teaches for my belief…”. So if you reject any one of the Church’s Teachings, you ain’t got Faith, you only trust in your own understanding of God. So take your pick, you gotta find out which of how many thousand versions of Protestantism you aspire to, just like some of those “nuns”.

I read in “The Mystical City of God” (hope it’s ok to quote the book)that if you have Faith—
“You are thus freed from the gross and vile narrow-mindedness of those who will believe only what they can experience by their own limited natural powers, not considering that the soul, as long as it lives in the prison of this corruptible body, is very much circumscribed and limited in it’s sphere and action by the knowledge drawn from the course activity of the senses. Appreciate, therefore, my daughter, this priceless treasure of the Catholic Faith given thee by God, watch over it and practice it in great esteem and reverence.” “The Mystical City of God”.

Don’t mean to be picking on you but I’m just shocked to read a guy claiming he’s a staunch Catholic but he believes two men can marry! It’s commendable that some men you know who have same sex attraction are living chastely - for the most part. Sounds like you know what’s right and wrong there. But then how do you explain the part about “avoid the near occasion of sin”? Unfortunately that one gets me. I wish I could shack up with some nice charitable babe, and not want to jump her bones but I just can’t convince an “orthodox” Catholic Priest that my thoughts are pure and it’s really ok. Take it from me, a heavy sinner.

Kevin Kenney, you missed where Tim Donovan said that he is OPPOSED to GAY marriage even though he is gay. He indicated that he has been chaste for most of his life. So he is actually to be highly commended just as all those chaste Catholic singles are. It is sad that he must bear that cross.

However, it is interesting that the worldly media makes it sound like it is so sad that homosexuals must stay chaste while there doesn’t seem to be any concern for those who are single and must remain chaste. Both have a cross to bear just as our wonderful priests that remain chaste despite the temptations of the flesh. In the worldly media, ‘chastity’ is not a word anymore. It has disappeared from their vocabulary since they don’t believe even 12 year old children need to be chaste anymore.

It is sad that the LCWR nuns, in many cases, have taken up the torch for gay marriage and abortion, yet they themselves know that it is possible to remain chaste when ones life is directed toward God. Perhaps these nuns have, in fact, directed their lives toward Jesus Christ and away from the god of humanism.

“In a recent conversation with a faithful religious sister, I stumbled upon a disturbing reality that I have since confirmed is not isolated to her order. She relayed to me that donors contacted her order because they were outraged at how the Vatican was treating them.”

Religious and priestly vocation is not a call to become Social Workers.  One does not have to be a priest or religious to be a social worker, or teacher or doctor or lawyer or carpenter or a dog walker.

No one forced anyone to become a nun or a priest.

The first duty and obligation of religious and priests is to do God’s will; FIRSTLY IN FAITHFULLY AND FOREVER KEEPING THEIR PERPETUAL VOWS OF OBEDIENCE, CHASTITY AND POVERTY FOR THE LOVE OF GOD AND THE SALVATION OF SOULS.

Equally important is for them to be faithful to the Rule and Constitution of their founders. To set an example in their exterior dress, behaviour and actions.

It is significant that our Holy Father publicly spoke of Judas only 3 days before the timely demise of Cardinal Martini.

This sermon could well apply to these nuns intent on creating a modern,Feminist all inclusive politically correct Catholicism within the True Church.

VATICAN CITY, August 28, 2012 -

In his Angelus address Sunday, Pope Benedict XVI SPOKE OF JUDAS’ BETRAYAL OF CHRIST, SAYING THAT JUDAS’ PROBLEM WAS FAILING TO LEAVE CHRIST WHEN HE NO LONGER BELIEVED – A “FALSEHOOD,” SAID THE POPE, “WHICH IS A MARK OF THE DEVIL.”

“Judas,” said Pope Benedict, “could have left, as many of the disciples did; indeed, he would have left if he were honest. Instead he remained with Jesus. HE DID NOT REMAIN BECAUSE OF FAITH, OR BECAUSE OF LOVE, BUT WITH THE SECRET INTENTION OF TAKING VENGEANCE ON THE MASTER.”

… “for those Catholics who cannot bring themselves to believe the formal teachings of the Church on life and family matters it would be more honest to leave the Church rather than betraying Her.”

…“Intellectual difficulty is not disobedience.” He explained, “You might have teachings you find difficult to accept. However, (in those circumstances) it is virtuous to believe since you make a sacrifice of your own will, taking as your own the mind of the Church.”

Need one say more?

Grok Hadrian - “It is sad that the LCWR nuns, in many cases, have taken up the torch for gay marriage and abortion, yet they themselves know that it is possible to remain chaste when ones life is directed toward God. Perhaps these nuns have, in fact, directed their lives toward Jesus Christ and away from the god of humanism.’
 

You are wrong Grok Hadrian.

A link within this article shows St. Louis assembly of the Leadership Conference of Women Religious. EWTN’s Father Mitch Pacwa, SJ, provided some insight into who Barbara Marx Hubbard the LCWR’s keynote speaker is.“She says that there is a hierarchy of voices that speaks to her,” explained Father Pacwa, who is an expert on the New Age movement. “The highest of those voices is what she describes as her ‘Christ-self.’”  These so called nuns chose this woman.

May God have mercy on me.  However, reading this article it does not take a genius to see that once the Vow of Obedience is broken it is not possible to keep the vows of Chastity and poverty. Like Lucifer, these women are full of pride and intent on trying to destroy the Church.  They do not love God or His Church.  For as by the disobedience of one man, many were made sinners…[Romans 5:19]

These words apply to these nuns who chose Barbara Marx Hubbard as the LCWR’s keynote speake who said, “The highest of those voices is what she describes as her ‘Christ-self.’”

11] Thy pride is brought down to hell…[12] How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, who didst rise in the morning? how art thou fallen to the earth, that didst wound the nations? [Isaias (Isaiah) 14:12] And thou saidst in thy heart: I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God, I will sit in the mountain of the covenant, in the sides of the north. [14] I will ascend above the height of the clouds, I will be like the most High. [15] But yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, into the depth of the pit.

Sorry Celinedesilva,
I posted before I was awake this morning. I meant to say ‘Perhaps these nuns NEED TO, in fact, directed their lives toward Jesus Christ and away from the god of humanism.’ Obviously many of these nuns follow humanism RATHER than Christ. I guess they have formed their own Christ in shape that they want him to be, rather than that of Jesus Christ himself.

Dear Mr. Hadrian. I appreciate that you understand that I AM definitely against gay marriage. With due repesct to Mr. Kenney, you have misinterpreted my remarks. My alma mater, Cabrini College, in Radnor, PA, now has a gay rights group. During my time at Cabrini, we did have a Respect Life Group as part of Campus ministryy, with students of several different faiths (though primarily Catholic). We addressed a number of different pro-life issues. Unfortunately, even in 1990 (when I graduated) dissent was rampant. Some of the nuns and professors were pro-life, but our college newspaper ran an ad for a well-known local abortionist. In fairness, the ad didn’t state that he performed abortions, but it was well known in the community. Members of our Respect Life group protested, including several of the sisters, but we received only a lukewarm response from the college administration. I’ve recently contacted Cabrini to express my concerns, but they seem puzzled as to why I would be opposed to such a college-funded group, especially since they apparently no longer do any anti-abortion ministry. As to Mr. Kevin Duke, who refers to the “parade of Catholics leaving the church for other groups who place the teachings of Jesus ahead of political power…” Actually, it is the mainline Protestant denominations (United Methodist, United Presbyterain, and Episcoplal Churches) that over the last 20 years have lost the most memebers. These are the churches which support gay marriage, legal abotion-on-demand, etc. (Of course, that’s not to say that all of their members support their denominations teachings). It’s a shame that there are so many divisions within our Church, and that a number of the posts on this message board areso full of vitriol. Peace! Tim Donovan

Thank you for a well informed, well written, article! I have long known that the LCWR has not fully represented the large number of women religious they say they do, and so love repeating to the media.  And I have long respected the women religious who taught me when I was young, and those I later saw working so hard in parishes as I moved for work; those in traditional habit, modified habit, and no habit. (One sister who stands out from the rest is Sr. Anne Bertain, O.P. who heads the Community Services, St. Dominic’s Church, San Francisco, CA, and has recently, and quite deservedly so, been awarded the Pro Ecclesia et Pontifice for her work).
I was sorely disappointed by an article some months ago by a local paper covering a very small turnout of protesters in front of the Cathedral of Christ the Light, Oakland, CA supporting the LCWR. The article seemed to focus on one sign that read “Our sisters’ wear sensible shoes, not Prada” -an obvious, but incorrect, allusion to the red shoes the Holy Father wears (he gets his shoes from Adriano Stefanelli, a cobbler in Novara, Italy).
What bothered me most about the sign is that I know a number of sisters, who while doing good work (I am thinking in particular of Sister Maureen-Theresa McRoddy, RHSM -who, by the way, does a great job as Dean of Students and Admissions at SAT)  dress as well as my mother did during her 20 year career as a bank manager. To be fair to Sr. McRoddy I saw a recent picture of her; her hair was not done and she was not wearing earrings.
It is also interesting to note, and I mean no disrespect to any other Orders or Congregations, that those sisters who live in community, practice a corporate apostlelate, and wear a recognizable habit, are the communities experiencing the greatest growth.

There is a failure among many Catholics to understand sacramental theology. They think it’s something we can manipulate or change. They do not realize that it’s something God does not something we do. God established these natural signs that relate to salvation history. Changing them would be changing salvation history itself.

Women priests, homosexuality, transgender priests etc, are not compatible with Christian monotheism. It’s a different religion, a different God.

I have friend who used to be Episcopalian, he is now pagan. He told me that when the Episcopal church ordained women, it caused a shift in consciousness, it opened up the female aspect of God, or the goddess.

Divine transcendence is the concept that creation is not born from the earth, as born from a mother, but from without. Therefore God is outside us and we are theist. The language used for God is therefore masculine.

Changing this would be embracing pantheism.

It’s it any wonder that the Russian Orthodox have called this the final break in Christianity.

Kevin Kenney,

Thanks for your thoughts, but I would like to point out that the quote from the Mystical city of God, is not exactly accurate. We are not ghosts trapped in machines, as per the Catholic understanding.  We are body and soul in one unit. This is why the whole gender-bending dualism, that you are one gender, but think you are another, does not work in Catholicism.

This anti-matter dualism is what we are up against, when we say that the sacraments are natural signs that we cannot manipulate or alter anymore than we can create a new sun in the sky.

Somebody just set me straight. I went off on a tirade toward Tim Donovan where I mis-read what he stated. He stated he was against gay marriage. I mis-read that he was in favor of it. So I owe him my humble apology for my gross misunderstanding and not checking my facts.

And the article has an old “nun” who is supposedly for choice pictured. And God is for choice too. We choose heaven or hell and God will allow us to choose even if we choose to be eternally separated from the only Source of True Love. So our smaller choices to either be faithful to God and His church or not will add up to one eternal choice at the end.

If you don’t think that the media is completely against the Catholic Church, watch this video on NBC and MSN. It is so sad and so telling.
http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2012/09/07/13726271-connecticut-priest-rebuked-for-role-in-cousins-same-sex-wedding?lite

Starting to look a lot like the Christians with the lions.

Thanks to Mr. Kenney for his apology regarding his misunderstanding of my remarks,, as I am against gay marriage. All of us sometimes jump to unwarranted conclusions. With due respect to “cowalker” who posted on Aug. 22. I can only repeat that reputable studies have shown that abuse of minors is just as prevelant among married Christian clergy and non-clergy, and is often covered up. Yes, it’s horrible that Cardinal Law has been given a high post in the Vatican-a serious mistake in judgement. But according to a 3/25 03 report in the LA Times by Teresa Watanabe, “in the last decade, clergy sexual misconduct has been exposed in virtually every faith tradition. National studies have shown no difference in its frequency by denomination, region, theology, or institutional structure.” In fairness, the report goes on to say that “mainline Protestant denominations have generally taken the earliest and most aggressive measures against clergy abuse.” Still the point remains that ALL religious denominations have this despicable problem. I might add that in the Phila. Archdiocese (where I live) former Democratic District Attorney Lynne Abraham pledged when when the Catholic clergy sex crisis broke nationwide about 12 years ago, she pledged that ALL religious denominations in Philly would be investigated for clergy sex abuse. This did NOT happen-only the Catholic Church was singled out. Fair-hardly. Finally, several years ago at the LCWR conference , a Dominican sister suggested that religious women should look not only “beyond the Church, but Jesus” for guidance. How can one be a sincere Catholic without believing in Christ?  Respectfully   Tim Donovan

As for as going beyond Christ St. Paul said in 1 Corinthians Chapter 1 vs 18 reminds us that “the cross if foolishness to those heading to ruin but it is the power of God to those being saved.”  I would take the words of St Paul, who lost his head literally for the faith, over other silly opinions any day.

Bob Gravlin,
You are so right.

“... personal revelations the church merely preserves the deposit of faith handed down and cannot go beyond it. There is no new Gospel or revelation.”

I’ve heard many Catholics recoil at any words of Private Revelation. I’m not sure if “savy” believes absolutely that there is no further “revelation” or not. For those who adhere to the idea that there can be no “Private Revelation” from God;

I’d like to point out that reasonable people believe the Second World War happened even though they were not alive then. So it is with all history, and Anthropoligy. Just because The Holy Bible does not tell us who escorted Mary to “the hill country in Judea to visit her cousin Elizabeth” doesn’t mean God may not allow or appoint a saint or angel to reveal it to someone for our thirst to know everything about God the Father or Jesus or Mary that God is willing to reveal to us. How bout Fatima???

The Catechism teaches that we are required to believe ALL that the Church teaches for our belief. No problem! That declaration doesn’t say we may not listen or consider or even believe a Private Revelation as long as it doesn’t contradict The Church’s Teaching. If Private Revelation was sinful then all the Bishops who sign those Nehil Obstots and Impremateurs would be in trouble with God and their bosses. It would be so much fun to throw us all in a room with our books and our snacks and our Rolaids and let the games begin!!! God grant us more Wisdom, YOU promised!!!

There was a time when Catholics who publicly opposed the teachings of Holy Mother the Church were excommunicated. That is done no longer exercised considering the new virtue of “tolerance” and allowed to form one’s own conscience.

correction:  freedom to form one’s conscience has replaced any need for excommunications.

Joe,

There are still certain things that can get you excommunicated . There is a difference between tolerance and approval. You can have an opinion, but if you cannot pass it off as official Catholic teaching. It is misleading and a lie.

A person cannot form their conscience with the wrong information.

Kevin,

What I meant by private revelation, was the claim some dissents make that their views are inspired by God and like to play the sorry victims, when called out on it. The same people are ready to attack others when they disagree with them.

I am fed up of liberals.

Savvy, now that you’ve tried to refute my statement - back it up if you can.  You Can’t!  But at least try and I will do the same.  You first!

Joe,

Excommunication does not end church membership. There are different stages of it. See this.

http://www.dummies.com/how-to/content/catholicism-excommunication-and-other-penalties.html

The Catholic view on conscience.

http://www.ourladyswarriors.org/articles/conscience.htm

Savvy,  Catholics DO NOT learn their faith from ‘dummies’ books.  We have all the teachings from revelation handed on by the Magisterium known as Sacred Tradition?  That said, in regards to conscience formation:

  Civil societies do not have a natural/Divine right to spread their errors.  Civil society has a duty to acknowledge God as its Founder and Parent ( none currently do)…  To claim each person is guaranteed liberty to form their own conscience leads to indifferentism.  Liberty of conscience is a most contagious error which leads to unrestrained liberty of opinions and the ruin of souls.

Dignitatis Humanae explicitly states:
1) “The right to religious freedom has its foundation, not in the subjective disposition of the person, but in his very nature.”
In other words, this decree teaches that this right is a natural right, God-given.
2) D. H. further states that, “In consequence, the right to their immunity continues to exist even in those who do not live up to their obligations of seeking the truth and adhering to it.”

Dignitatis Humanae teaches that those in error still have the right to promote their error publicly. 

See what the Roman Catholic Church teaches in the propositions contained in the Syllabus of Errors by Pope Pius IX (December 8, 1864):
“15. Every man is free to embrace and profess that religion which, guided by the light of reason, he shall consider true.”  CONDEMNED

“55. The Church ought to be separated from the State, and the State from the Church.” CONDEMNED

“77. In the present day, it is no longer expedient that the Catholic religion should be held as the only religion of the State, to the exclusion of all other forms of worship.” CONDEMNED

“79. Moreover, it is false that the civil liberty of every form of worship, and the full power, given to all, of overtly and publicly manifesting any opinions whatsoever and thoughts, conduce more easily to corrupt the morals and minds of the people, and to propagate the pest of indifferentism.” CONDEMNED

The Catholic Church has always held — that no one can be forced to accept the true religion. Pope Leo XIII in Immortale Dei (November 1, 1885) taught:

“The Church is wont to take earnest heed that no one shall be forced to embrace the Catholic Faith against his will, for, as St. Augustine wisely reminds us, ‘Man cannot believe otherwise than of his own free will.’”

Joe,

The books simply gives an accurate account of Catholic teachings on excommunication.

The link on conscience, which I gave you does explains Dignitatis Humanae.

The Syllabus of Errors was a response to certain ideas proposed by the French revolution, that held that freedom of religion meant freedom from religion. It was a response to legal laws being enacted, where the state was taking over religious institutions, rather than about personal conscience.

Joe,

Not all encyclicals carry the same weight.

Extract from the article in Catholic Encyclopedia:

“As for the binding force of these documents it is generally admitted that the mere fact that the pope should have given to any of his utterances the form of an encyclical does not necessarily constitute it an ex-cathedra pronouncement and invest it with infallible authority. The degree in which the infallible magisterium of the Holy See is committed must be judged from the circumstances, and from the language used in the particular case.”

http://oce.catholic.com/index.php?title=Encyclical

Savvy, are you stating that you deny the infallibility of the Vicar of Christ\?

Are you stating that the Holy Spirit makes mistakes and must be corrected?
Where in Catholic Church history has a Pontiff corrected his predecessor?

AND are you stating that truth evolves, can be changed into a different meaning, OR there is no truth?

One more question:  is Dignitatis Humanae a “counter syllabus” as a particular dignitary has stated and Pope Pius IX’s teachings are no longer applicable?

Why have a Church at all, based on your reasoning?

“Savvy, are you stating that you deny the infallibility of the Vicar of Christ?”

No.

“Are you stating that the Holy Spirit makes mistakes and must be corrected?’

No.

“AND are you stating that truth evolves, can be changed into a different meaning, OR there is no truth?”

No.

“is Dignitatis Humanae a “counter syllabus” as a particular dignitary has stated and Pope Pius IX’s teachings are no longer applicable?”

No.

I am simply saying that you have the concept of infallibility wrong. It does not apply to every church document released.

I am also trying to figure out where you are going with all this.

Savvy, infallibility means that the Vicar of Christ does not err on matters of faith and morals.  All Catholics, and all people are obligated to form their conscience according to these teachings in order to save their souls. 

Were you ever a Catholic or did you ever consider that you believed in the truth that Holy Mother the Church safeguards and teaches?

“infallibility means that the Vicar of Christ does not err on matters of faith and morals.”

Yes, I know. But, it’s your definition of what constitutes faith and morals, that I disagree with.

I am a Catholic. The question is are you?

Savvy, you sources are strange to me.  I’ve never heard of most of them.  Give an example of your definition of what is faith and what is morals and why would I disagree.

Joe,

I am trying to figure out what exactly we are disagreeing on? You brought up the Syllabus, not me.

Savvy, I asked a friend about Herbert Thurston and this is the response:
I have indeed read about Herbert Thurston: he was a close friend of Tyrell, the modernist. I read Thurston’s book, “Ghosts,” and found it objectionable.  He clearly does not believe in the Catholic view of the spiritual world, but he does believe in the paranormal, so he thinks that there is value to spiritualism.  I would say that the guy is another example of the Jesuits gone astray.”

We began a discussion when I said there are no longer excommunications in the Church (except of course for those darn Traditional Catholics), and that the conciliar church teaches that one must form their own conscience.

http://www.blogtalkradio.com/restorationradio/2012/10/20/restoration-radio

Joe,

I am assuming you are with a group still in schism?  Yes, the church still does excommunicate people, for the reasons I gave you, but one must also form their own conscience.

savvy, I believe in all the teachings of Holy Mother the Church without exception.  One has a duty to form their conscience according to these teachings.  Anything outside of them is sure destruction as has benn proven over and over.

savvy,  The Catholic Encyclopedia has a long article on Excommunications.  The whole article is immense.  See: Excommunication, Catholic Encyclopedia

Joe,

The church needs to tread carefully.  A direct crackdown would have the hippies, yelling, “we are being persecuted, comparing themselves to saints and martyrs, etc, etc.

You talk like a conciliarist who knows very little about Holy Mother the Church.

I would say - Yes, it is a Choice and it is a woman’s right to choose and the choice is so simple and it has been made so easy for us: there is one and only one Choice in this matter and that is the Choice to Choose LIFE and protect all LIFE at all costs. This is non-negotiable…there are no if ands or buts on the subject.
Bottomline, if you are of the Roman Catholic Faith and you are pro abortion and or pro choice then the Church has no other position but to excommunicate you. It is as simple as that.

Josh,

Based on the church’s teachings, only one sin can get you excommunicated, if you participate in it, which is murder. This would include abortion, homicide, and euthanasia.

Josh Walker and Savvy,  what about the bishops who allow pro-abort politicians to speak at claimed Catholic Colleges and universities?  Aren’t they cohorts to the slaughtering of the unborn?

What about von Schönborn of Vienna ( the current ecclesiastical advisor at Ave Marie University, Naples, Florida, can you believe it?!  ) who has twice given the Pontifical Order of St. Gregory the Great Award to PRO- abort politicians?
http://catholiccitizens.org/press/pressview.asp?c=47112

Isn’t he a candidate for excommunication?

If not these men than who?

Hi Joe - thank you for your comment. I completely understand what you are saying and where you are coming from. I do not have all teh answers -wish I did. Well, not really…
I cannot pretend to know what is in mind of the Vienna Cardinal and why the Vatican honored this killer. I have to believe in the power of God and trust that God knows what is best.
Just like Jesus dined with tax collectors and undesirables and talked ot prostitutes etc we too as followers of Christ need not shun our brothers and sisters who are in error but embrace them - we have to love them and love one another as Christ loved us and we need to prove Gandhi wrong. Gandhi once said:
“I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ.”
We all are called to be and need to be Christ-like and we need to find out why the Vatican and the Cardinal in Vienna did what they did.
Anyone out there have a thought on this?

Josh, von Schönborn of Vienna has a reputation for scandalous beliefs.  Von Schönborn is also known for his balloon masses and calls the Buddhist, Dalai Lama, Holiness—
\Card_ Schönborn Invites the Dalai Lama to Pentecost Mass by Marian Horvat.htm……………….            and more.

He’s been around for a long time.
Josh, your comparison of Jesus with sinners is absurd.  Jesus did not compromise on who He was.  He did not practice heretical and pagan activities in order to be acceptable.  Gandhi has personally chosen not live the Ten Commandments.  He cannot blame his disobedience on others.  Christ reveals Himself to all.  Each person has free will to accept or reject Him. 

Gandhi does not reflect on the Martyrs, Saints, Bishops, Popes and Virgins who humbled themselves, and renounced the world in order to live a sacrificial life for the sake of salvation for themselves and others.  They loved God first. They perceived themselves as sinners deserving nothing but longed to see the glories of God in this life and the hereafter.  The Kingdom of God will not be advanced with the Gandhi’s of the world.  It is only in loving Him who created us that we can change the world.

Living a Catholic life is not any easy life to live.  Most choose the wide road that has tolerance of situational ethics and developing one’s own conscience without a firm foundation in the teachings of Holy Mother the Church.

Jesus embraced the sinner, but the sinner had to repent of their evil ways. None of the sinners who joined Jesus went back to their sinful ways. This was different than with the Jews of Jesus time. Once someone was involved in serious sin, they were marked for life. No forgiveness there. But these people who promote sin, are worse than sinners, they are in league with Satan.

Satan has always attacked the church. He has used many ways to attack the church through the years. Just as Communism killed thousands of priests, and England killed hundreds of priests, Islam conquered many parts of Europe prior to the Crusades fighting them back, we too are being attacked by Satan, both from outside and within the Church. We should expect Satan’s influence against the church from within because the Catholic Church is the main target of Satan.

Most importantly, we need to ensure that we are not being used by Satan to bring down the Church. I am sure those that promote ‘change’ in thousands of years old teachings of the Church don’t realize that Satan is using them to weaken the faith of many thousands of Catholics.

We should all pray for God’s guidance and Holy Spirit.

Joe - in my opinion you live your life with blinders on. it is difficult to have a discussion or a healthy argument with you.

Josh, what are the ‘blinders’?  Facts are such stubborn things.  If we do not love God FIRST, than we are practicing only a human, socialized form of loving of our neighbor that will not bear good fruit.

Grok Hadrian= There was a time when world wide Catholics prayed for the conversion of Islam and the Jews.  No longer.  Speaking of communism it was and still is the greatest threat to world peace.  See who signed a pact with the communist regimes all the while bishops and priests were rotting and being tortured in their prisons:

Declaration of Resistance to the Vatican Ostpolitik

Plinio Corrêa de Oliveira

Thirty years ago, Prof. Plinio Corrêa de Oliveira published his Declaration of Resistance to the Vatican Ostpolitik with communist regimes.

During the pontificates of John XXIII and Paul VI, the Vatican adopted a tolerant approach toward communist regimes that denied Catholic principles of Faith and social doctrine. This was one of the scandals that marked the post-conciliar era. The last straw that gave rise to Prof. Plinio’s Declaration of Resistance was Archbishop Agostino Casaroli’s visit to Cuba in 1974, and the eulogies of the regime he made in an interview afterward.

With its Ostpolitik with communist countries, the Vatican was sending an unspoken message to Catholics: Stop fighting against Communism.
http://www.traditioninaction.org/bestof/bst004plinio.htm

Surely, this cannot be new information to you.  Josh would say we just have not “loved” enough.

Josh, your comparison of Jesus with sinners is absurd.  Jesus did not compromise on who He was.  He did not practice heretical and pagan activities in order to be acceptable.  Gandhi has personally chosen not live the Ten Commandments.  He cannot blame his disobedience on others.  Christ reveals Himself to all.  Each person has free will to accept or reject Him. 

Gandhi does not reflect on the Martyrs, Saints, Bishops, Popes and Virgins who humbled themselves, and renounced the world in order to live a sacrificial life for the sake of salvation for themselves and others.  They loved God first. They perceived themselves as sinners deserving nothing but longed to see the glories of God in this life and the hereafter.  The Kingdom of God will not be advanced with the Gandhi’s of the world.  It is only in loving Him who created us that we can change the world.

Living a Catholic life is not any easy life to live.  Most choose the wide road that has tolerance of situational ethics and developing one’s own conscience without a firm foundation in the teachings of Holy Mother the Church.