VAT II was a disaster.  Before Vat II, we had full seminaries, convents, Catholic schools, long lines at the confessional box, children who knew their catechism, Catholics who adhered to church teachings.  Look at the state of the church now-empty seminaries, although, the traditional Catholic seminaries are filling up. Pius X seminary in Switzerland has 45 seminarians, empty convents, Catholic schools closing at an alarming rate, hardly anyone going to confession, children who don’t know their catechism.  And the church is celebrating 50th Anniversary of Vatican II?  There should be a death knell.

Blessed be Pope Benedict XVI, we need to reread the document of Vatican council II !
bendito sea el Papa Benedicto XVI. necesitamos releer el documento del Concilio Vaticano II.

In Motu Proprio Porta Fidei for the year of Faith starting with paragraphs
# 11, he also asked each of us to rediscover and study the “Catechism of the Catholic Church”.
God Bless Pope Benedict and the Magisterium.

I hope the Holy Father means exactly what was said.  At the same time, I wish that he had addressed the initial problems of enacting incorrect interpretations of Vatican II.  Many of us would like to get on with this, and that means stopping, in my view, the aberrations which have occured.  New churches which look like fire hall-assembly halls need to have some amendments made, Mass in Latin needs to be in every parish church at least once on Sundays, and cocktail lounge piano music as accompaniment to the Canon of the Mass needs to be STOPPED!  Canon number 1 should be used at the major masses on Sunday.

Please return to the infallible documents of the Council of Trent and Vatican Council I as well.

I will go from my death bed to the casket having rejected the outcomes of Vatican II.  I am still in nova ecclesia but in great pain with it all. Before I die maybe I will join the sspx.

It seems to me that the Pope never says “let’s roll everything back to the Pre-Vatican-2 days”. That’s nice. In fact, he seems to like Vatican-2 at some level. What he does not seem to like is how Vatican-2 was implemented in some areas. That’s pretty common. The human implementation of a good design is not always a good result. But, thank goodness, we have the Holy Spirit to guide the Church. And, we have the infinite Mercy of Jesus Christ to help us heal. All will be as He wills. Every knee shall bend. And our trust in His guidance is essential to our Faith.

Dear Pope Benedict XVI:

“The Holy Father lamented that when the Council closed in 1965 many Catholics misinterpreted its documents…”  Well, Holy Father, does that tell you ANYTHING?  Forgive me, but it seems you are a follower and have to rely on others for speech material.  May I propose something new?  Let’s revise the documents so that EVERYONE can understand them and agree that they profess the true Faith.  “Everyone” would include those who have chosen to leave Rome because of them (like SSPX and others who suffer greatly because of the abuses, like Barney, above), and even people like me, who see many inconsistencies and vague, completely ambiguous references to what could be obvious holy words.  We are all looking for originality and holiness from you and the Vatican.  SSPX priests and Bishops are intimately aware of the consequences of erroneous interpretations and changes that occurred, and they would be a good place to start negotiating document changes.  More documentation and references to references that explain these documents is NOT needed (that should be avoided, even).  SSPX refused to follow the example of flawed, confusing documents that cause errors to be pronounced throughout the Church.  Errors because of these documents suggest that the “spirit of Vatican II” had other ideas about holiness than Christ did.  It is questionable whether this spirit is associated with Christ because of the results we see.  It’s OK, Holy Father, you can change your mind.

Something keeps me from joining the SSPX. At the same time we are in Henry VIII England with 32 our of 33 bishops having abandoned their see, to adopt the Spirit of the World. I cannot find words strong enough in my condemnation of the USCCB and the likes of Dolan and Egan. And, if JPII is/was such a great saint, why did he appoint the likes of Mahoney and the petty bureaucrats we are saddled with in Virginia? Where is Father James Haley? Why cannot I understand New Mass when it is not in Latin, but such strong foreign accents I can understand hardly a word? Where’s the Tabernacle? Oh, yes! There it is, hiding behind the man in his underwear assisting at mass!

We were given “the spirit of Vatican II” as constant pablum following the council.  Not a Sunday went by at my parish in Reston,
Virginia when ordained clerics, some fairly fresh out of the seminary, would propound on the interpretations of the council, which obviously they got in their seminarie(s) of the Oblates of St. Francis de Sales. It was constant.  Pre-Vatican II was seen as a no gainer, and only their promulgations of the excessively distorted misinterpretations were considered absolute. Change for the sake of change was the order of the day. The spirit of the Early Church Fathers - the spirit of Tradition - was never offered.  One could only sense that creepy relativism had crept its way into Christ’s Church. And now what do we see on the horizon with these fellows preaching extensively on the merits of Vatican II? Little by little, in publications I see and hear them embracing even greater extremes as proposed by the likes of so-called Bishop Spong of the Episcopal Church.  We can only stop this nonsense if the church clearly define what each of the 16 documents actually require of us.  There are principles involved, yes, but some of those principles are erroneous to begin with, it seems to me, and how do we have to apply those principles which are non-erroneous. Last summer I attended a Solemn Mass at a French Benedictine Abbey, Notre Dame de Fontgombault, near LeBlanc, France, just south of Tours, and I felt the goodness of worship given to Almighty God. Serious, Sacred, and Saving! Are we crazy? - those of us in the pews - to have ever allowed ourselves to be bullied into the excesses of misinterpretations of Vatican II.
Take a look at the numbers of people who have left the Church, and those numbers spell CRISIS. Of course, a goodly number have, in effect left already to embrace the Spong movement which exists. I cannot say “good riddance,” because that is not what Jesus would say. They’ll not come back, not even to the mess they’ve made in our Church.  But within the Church they have left a spin.  May we leave this and turn ever more to our roots, and the sublimity of expression which Divinity deserves.  Because of what Vatican II has done to our Church, I cannot accept it, unless it is clarified for practical applications within the context of our TRADITION(S). I am crying unto you, o Lord, my God, come to our assistance!!!  And Lord, make it as fast as you can!

Linda Nelson:

Thank you for the best comment I’ve read in a long time on Vatican II and its consequences. From your lips to God’s ear.

@ Post by Mike Smith on Friday, Oct 12, 2012 4:32 PM (EST):

“Something keeps me from joining the SSPX”.

Well, the “schism” thing should be a MAJOR turn-off!!!

CCC. 2089. Incredulity is the neglect of revealed truth or the willful refusal to assent to it. “Heresy is the obstinate post-baptismal denial of some truth which must be believed with divine and catholic faith, or it is likewise an obstinate doubt concerning the same; apostasy is the total repudiation of the Christian faith; schism is the refusal of submission to the Roman Pontiff or of communion with the members of the Church subject to him.”

CCC. 817 In fact, “in this one and only Church of God from its very beginnings there arose certain rifts, which the Apostle strongly censures as damnable. But in subsequent centuries much more serious dissensions appeared and large communities became separated from full communion with the Catholic Church - for which, often enough, men of both sides were to blame.” The ruptures that wound the unity of Christ’s Body - here we must distinguish heresy, apostasy, and schism - do not occur without human sin:
Where there are sins, there are also divisions, schisms, heresies, and disputes. Where there is virtue, however, there also are harmony and unity, from which arise the one heart and one soul of all believers.

We are the stewards of the Church—inasmuch as we are called to be such—so if one knows that something truly “wrong” is happening at a Mass, then one is obligated to do everything in one’s power to right that wrong. Do not run away.

We all do well to Defend The Faith.

God bless you.

—Mark Kamoski

This is not going to change.  And now the Church is asking people who have left it to return to it!  And look at what they will return to, if they choose to do so.  What a shame I cannot post audio and video presentations of what this insanity (results of Vatican II) has brought to us at the parish in which I live.  And for this particular parish it all began with the advent of the Oblates of St. Francis de Sales, and a small group of extremists to whom the Oblates relished for their purposes of spreading their theories and misinterpretations of Vatican II, all of which they were given in their Oblates’ seminaries.  This group of priests is never going to accept anything but what came out of Vatican II!
When I some years ago described these goings-on to a friend of mine, an archbishop, his response to me was “this is not Catholicism.”

@ Post by Barney on Monday, Oct 15, 2012 6:02 PM (EST):

“the Church is asking people who have left it to return to it!  And look at what they will return to”

...the Body And Blood And Soul And Divinity of Jesus Christ…

...that is the BEST reason in all eternity…

....so sure, come on back to the Catholic Church, please…

...we have EVERYTHING to offer…

...literally EVERYTHING.

(Sure, we have quirks and flaw and foibles—but we also have Jesus, and compared to him everything else is just a small matter.)

:-)

God bless you!!!

—Mark Kamoski

Yes, Mark, unquestionably true, what you write. But I am sure that Jesus is made to suffer by some of the skewed Vatican II assertions, and misdirected, misinterpreted applications of Vatican II by Archbishop Bugnini and Company.  I have not left the Vatican 2 new church, although I admit that I have been sorely tempted to do so. Just recently in my parish church the pianist played cocktail lounge type piano music as an accompaniment to the priest’s recitation of the Canon of the Mass.
Enough said?  I could go on and on with many aberations, each of which denigrates what we had before Vatican II in divine worship. And again, the Church needs to clarify just what is dogmatic about that council and whatever came out of it.

When we reach the nearly 100 percent belief in the True Presence, our preeminent doctrine of the faith, that preceded the Second Vatican Council, we will have the renewal Pope John XXIII must have had in mind. Estimates that only 25 percent still believe are unconscionable.  Behavior and attire at Mass tends to confirm the estimate. I don’t reject the council, but at 85, I will probably go to the grave wishing it had not occurred.  Only consecrated hands were allowed to touch the Eucharist and holy vessels before the council. Familiarity apparently breeds indifference at best.

Unfortunately, the Holy Father, John xxiii, died before the end of the council, not having any knowledge of what aberrations would come about. He did not set the Council in motion to bring about the destruction of the Church of Christ, but we are well on the road to the gates of hell with it all.  Enough of Vatican II; I am not talking about the principles not so clearly enunciated in the documents.  Very clearly, the misinterpretations, and the concoction of the notion: THE SPIRIT OF VATICAN II!  I do not believe for one moment that this so-called spirit of Vatican II was or has been given by the Holy Spirit.  On the contrary, the wolves in lamb’s clothing were doing the bidding of Satan with his ingenious mode of destruction. And their followers, most of them, were heady in their pronouncements and led us on into change for the sake of change.  HELLO RELATIVISM!

The opening of Vatican Council II occured on the feast of the Maternity of the Blessed Virgin Mary, and symbolically the Council did away with the feast day on October 11.  I would like to see the feast day returned to October 11.  In St. Ignatius Loyola Church, Chicago, Illinois, there is a Lady Chapel where baptisms used to occur, and perhaps still do.  In that chapel there is a magnificent paiting over the altar of our Blessed Mother resplendent in her divine maternity of Jesus. 
We can only pray to her and, of course, to the Lord Himself that the madness of Vatican II misinterpretations end forthwith soon. Deus in adjutorium meum intende!

Here is a good idea. If the Priest, or one of the congregation, does something “wrong” at Mass, well here is an idea—how about trying to forgive?

Remember?

Mercy not sacrifice.

Seventy time Seven.

Let the Children come to me.

Remember that stuff?

As to walking out of Mass, or leaving a given Mass for a “better” service, and so on, that is sad when, in fact, our place is THERE, at the foot of the Cross, with Mary, and the Elect.

Jesus says—“wherever I am, my servant will be there too. If anyone serves me, my Father will honour him”. (from John 12:24-26)

To be there, at the Mass, before the Eucharist, that is the place for humans, and all else is as nothing before He who is.

Don’t give up. If you see something broken, then fix it. If you don’t like the music, then learn a bit of music and join the music program. Join the Parish Council. Start a grass-roots effort devotion to the Rosary. Start a Divine Mercy Chaplet group. Invite a good Catholic speaker to come in and give a talk. Etc. Etc. Etc. There is SO much we can do. It is OUR Church in the sense that we are stewards and must choose to respond to His Grace. Let’s not respond with our feet, running away, rather let’s respond with our hearts and faith.

“For us, our homeland is in heaven, and from heaven comes the saviour we are waiting for, the Lord Jesus Christ, and he will transfigure these wretched bodies of ours into copies of his glorious body. He will do that by the same power with which he can subdue the whole universe.
So then, my brothers and dear friends, do not give way but remain faithful in the Lord.” (from Philippians 3:17-4:1)

HTH.

Thanks and God bless you.

—Mark Kamoski

In my parish church which is referred to during mass as, “the assembly,” this “buzz” term, is used repeatedly, and the priest is referred to only with the term, “presider.”  The implication, it seems to me, is that the “priesthood of all believers” concept is paramount and rampantly rife in interpretation!  And, indeed, this is what the Oblate fathers of this parish preside over. This is their own doing, as they continue to misinterpret and apply their interpretations of Vatican II to this PARISH.

we must not blame one another for all of us are the cause of confusion.the best thing that we can do is to put into practice what we believe in particularly the good news. witnessing is very important nowadays. by witnessing we can actually fight the new technologies which i call the dilemma of many people.hope we work together for the greater glory of God. nothing is permanent here on earth if we do nothing that will be our problem in the next life to come!