These folks aren’t interested in equality. Their want inequality of the type exhibited in this story. They want to be more equal than others.

I can’t wait until these “women” decide that it is some form of discrimination that the women’s rest room doesn’t have urinals. Goodbye, Macy’s. I hardly knew ye.

While I don’t agree with the store manager in this instance, since apparently there is also a religious beliefs protection in place, I do agree with Macy’s and Bloomingdales’ policy on transgender access to dressing rooms.

For one thing, the likelihood of a sexual predator a) knowing about this policy, b) dressing like a woman to exploit it (thus drawing attention to himself), and c) being bold/stupid enough to then (after drawing attention to himself) go after strangers in a very public place is so negligible as to be ludicrous.

That established, what you believe about transgender people—whether you believe they are “lying”, disturbed/disordered, or earnestly trying to discern their place in God’s creation—matters less than the fact that they believe themselves to be female (or male, in the case of female-to-male transgender) to the deepest core of their being, that it takes a massive amount of courage to even get to the stage of being able to dress according to their inmost-felt gender, and that the situation could have been handled much more sensitively by the employee (who likely knew of the policy but never thought she would have to abide by it).

Either way, as a community we should have more sensitivity to the very real spiritual alienation of transgender people. Engage them less on their choices of clothing and more on their likeness to Christ, and I guarantee you’ll see a marked change in both sides for the better.

Thanks for the heads up on this policy as we and I am sure many others were unaware.  We have signed the petition and e-mailed the head office to let them know our disappointment.  Macy’s operates in America which is a Christian country—and Christianity is the largest organization in the world - why would they want to alienate those shoppers?  Thanks for your diligence in upholding truth and spreading the word.  For those who may disagree - remember, there is only one truth - it’s either right or wrong and it is the duty of the individual to seek truth and live it courageously.

We have been shopping at Macys for years.  One of the best TV shows for Christmas is about Macys and Santa.  Never again will there be a dollar spent at this anti american homo shop and i will pass this on to all my family and friends.  Thanks to the Macys employee who stood up for whats correct.  Her boss and Macys should be sued for discrimination by a good coorate lawyer for free.  God bless her on this Christmas season.  Esus is the reason for the season.

@ Becca - “For one thing, the likelihood of a sexual predator a) knowing about this policy, b) dressing like a woman to exploit it (thus drawing attention to himself), and c) being bold/stupid enough to then (after drawing attention to himself) go after strangers in a very public place is so negligible as to be ludicrous.”

What planet do you live on?  That is so naive.  Predators are indeed that calculating, that’s the whole point.  The number of people on sex offender registries who got caught in changing rooms (both same sex and opposite sex) is staggering.

As to your other comments, I would agree that some people do become deeply conflicted about their sense of gender identity, and to the extent that this causes them great anguish we ought show patience and compassion for what they are going through.  But…compassion does not mean going along to get along.  You need to educate yourself about the very real disagreement going on the medical, scientific, and psychiatric communities about this disorder (and it is a disorder by the way), how and why it develops and how to treat it.  Engaging people in terms of their “likeness to Christ” as you put it, means being interesting in what Christ had to say about it “male and female he created them.”  There are two genders not five, six, or infinity (as groups like Gender Spectrum claim).  These genders are God-given, and they are not swappable.  Just because a person struggles deeply with their sense of identity does not justify reordering our entire society towards the normalization of what is inherently disordered.  Your brand of compassion is not Christ-centered.  It’s ego centered.  Get a clue…

@Becca
If we take your initial argument, we essentially have an equation A*B*C = D where D is some number very near to 0.  Lets start with assumption A, that sexual predators are unlikely to know about the policy.  Really?  After this media coverage?  And after it was obviously made well known in the LGBT community?  Now, assumption B, that they are unwilling to draw attention to themselves by dressing as a woman; this is probably your strongest assumption, but it also ignores the fact that some men can be more convincing than others when dressed as a woman.  I was at a costume party once where one male dressed as a woman and I really didn’t realize he was a he for quite a while.  Granted, such a person could probably get into the dressing rooms anyway.  But that being said, if enough cross-dressers started using the women’s dressing rooms, the sexual predator might not stand out that much, and of course is already wearing a disguise.  Now for assumption C; sexual predators by definition already take risky actions.  Do ultimately I am not nearly as confident about an extremely low value for D as you are. 
—
While transexuals, and indeed all who are in the LGBT community should be treated with compassion, it is not compassion to essentially endorse or condone their embrace of sinful activities.

Becca, I agree it’s entirely possible that the employee could have handled the situation more sensitively. It’s also plausible that the cross-dressing (?) shopper, accompanied by half a dozen friends, was looking to provoke a public confrontation.
 
I wish I could agree with you on the improbability of perverts abusing the store policy. The hard reality is that predatory types can be quite willing to take insane risks. I once saw a man groping women at a wedding reception right out in the open. He was arrested later for doing the same thing in a shopping mall. Sometimes such people actually want to be caught. Unfortunately, some poor girl or woman has to be the last one molested by such creeps.

Since dressing and fitting rooms are supposed to be private, what difference does the sex of the person using it make?

Becca - thank you.

Fr. Basil: The privacy of a fitting room is a relative thing, much like the stalls in a public restroom. There are dividers between rooms and perhaps a curtain or swinging doors for the door, but it’s still a female-only or male-only area for a reason.
 
If the store doesn’t assign you a numbered fitting room, you may have to twitch a curtain to see if a room is occupied or not. Even if that’s not the case, a jerk who just wants to get his jollies glimpsing women changing could “accidentally” poke his head into the wrong room, etc. Also, I’m told that women in groups may come into the common area in various states of dishabille to share opinions, etc.

Frankly, Steven, while I wouldn’t like to be looked in on by a peeping Tom in a dressing room, it is rare in a dressing room that I am ever in more of a state of undress than I would be wearing a swimsuit. It would be odd, but would also be easily handled by an attendant and/or the collective occupants of the dressing area. And it wouldn’t traumatize me, in any event, nor do I know many women who would feel victimized in that situation.

Another point: not all stores have gender segregated dressing areas. I wouldn’t boycott those stores just because of that… and I don’t think many people on this site would, either. It’s telling that these concerns only come out when larger stores develop more restrictive segregation policies than boutiques or smaller stores—but with allowances for transgender folks.

Whoever thinks sex offenders won’t know about this policy is fooling themselves. Perverts know everything and take advantage of every opportunity… Not every cross-dresser is a predator of course. But some probably are, and perverts who want to terrorize and rape women will take advantage of this policy the more it is broadcast.

I am female and I can tell you that I do not want a man to be in the women’s dressing room, I don’t care what he THINKS he is, or what he is wearing. He could look like Dolly Parton, but if he’s a man, I’m out the door. I will not be buying from Macy’s if their policy is to let men in the dressing rooms.

Becca, would you be comfortable letting your 13-year-old daughter go alone into a dressing room knowing that male customers are allowed to enter the area and might “accidentally” open the door to her stall while she’s changing?  I’m not—and yet, at 13, a young girl might want the freedom to try something on without Mom hovering over her the whole time.  This just adds fitting rooms to the list of places older preteens and young teens aren’t able to be alone in safely, in my opinion—and yet people who point that out get called “helicopter parents” and scoffed at for our concern.

To Becca and Jill… I know I will be criticized for not being sufficiently “sensitive” (or worse) but being “sensitive” should not preclude having a brain.  The type of unrealistic, naive, foolish reaction you are advocating is what has gotten our society into the mess it is in.  I beg you, please add a dose of realism to your wonderful compassion.

Thank you for posting this article.  I have written Macy’s to tell them that, even though I have been a customer there for years, neither I nor my family will shop there any longer until they reverse their policy on the changing rooms.  I also stated that they should reinstate the employee they fired with a public apology for violating her conscience.

Erin, I don’t think you’re a helicopter parent for being concerned, but I prefer to be realistic about the likelihood of this actually occurring versus any parental fears I might have.

I know several transgender folks. They are all upstanding and wonderful people, and I would be comfortable leaving my children in the care of any of them. I can tell you from experience that the trans community does not support the sexual exploitation or victimization of anyone, and that being transgender is not about sex. Biologically-male transgender individuals are about the least likely people to want to sexually victimize a woman.

Whether you agree with transgender people’s wardrobe or life decisions or not, does not change the fact that they face more prejudice and hatred than anyone else in our society and as a whole do not deserve the label of “sexual deviants” or “perverts”. I do not fear them, I am raising my children not to fear them, and I wish more Christians would allow love and a little understanding into their hearts for a group of people who are suffering to discern their very core identities. The transgendered face a vastly greater likelihood of depression and anxiety disorders, and commit suicide at significantly greater rates than other groups, in large part due to the opprobrium heaped on them by people identifying as Christians.

If Macy’s cares so much for accommodating transgendereds that are not immediately identifiable as their “preferred” gender, let them provide a separate “mixed” sex dressing room.

Dressing rooms ARE private areas and I as a customer should have some assurance that it is single sex access only, for comfort and peace of mind. I have no problem with making things easier for these folks, but don’t expect others to accept that a) women and men are the same or interchangeable or b) that someone is a another gender just because he/she says so. That’s insane.

This is one (perhaps the only one) instance where I think the Europeans have the answer. In a lot of stores I shopped in overseas the dressing rooms are in a bank out in the open (of course every stall is private enough and equipped with a lock so you can change without fear of exposure), for everybody to use. This way there is no fear of being attacked, since you are only feet away from the bustle of the store, and there is no need to have employees sort out someone’s sex (or lack thereof) before entering. The secluded, tucked away in a corner fitting rooms most Macy’s stores have do not feel safe to me regardless of their policies on gender!

As the LGBT crowd is so quick to admite - many cross-dressers are not gay, they “identify” as heterosexual.  This makes this even more inappropriate for the females in the dressing room.  Seriously, why can’t he just take the women’s clothing into the men’s dressing room?

Amy, transgendered aren’t the same as cross-dressers.

Just to clarify, there is no genotyping going on at the entrance of the dressing rooms. As long as an individual looks sufficiently male or female, he or she will have access to that dressing room. The problem for Macy’s (and their customers)comes with those who are clearly one sex dressing or claiming to be the other, which is a tiny minority or the whole.

Separate or private dressing rooms are the answer here, not discomfiting most customers and employees by asking them to agree that an orange is indeed an apple and you better be happy about it.

Elaine, yes, you are correct.  There is a difference between a cross-dresser and a transgendered person.  And certainly a fitting-room person would not be able to discern that.  But more fitting rooms and staff to man them?  At a time when the stores are already hurting from the economy?  I guess, for me, a simple rule would be go by what that person’s Driver’s Licencse would say.  And whatever gender that claims, go to that dressing room, or that restroom or whatever.

If Macy’s truly was “compassionate” ... they would build “LGBT only” dressing rooms. But as it is, it’s just a politically correct stunt, at the expense of the comfort and safety of their female patrons. I’m sure this will eventually lead to some lawsuits, and then maybe they will stop the insanity.

Thanks for making us aware.  If it doesn’t matter because there are stalls so we should let the opposite sex in, then it doesn’t matter because there are stalls and the opposite sex should stay out - right? Everyone wants to do something they shouldn’t - some things, like cross dressing, are just sometimes more obvious than, for example, eating an entire chocolate cake.  I’m proud to be a “helicopter” parent in those kinds of situations. Your kids will thank you for it.

All of this nonsense is the reult of a very spoiled generation of people.  For some, it is OK to turn conventional society upside down for their own personal cause.  They think the world owes them something and just because they have “gender identification issues”, the rest of the world must bend and conform to make them happy.  In other words, “It’s all about them and to heck with everyone else”.  Further, becuase we have a society that largely does not think too hard about downstream ramifications (or anything else for that matter), the disease of political correctness takes over and we end up with men in women’s dressing rooms.

I have seen half-dressed women in dressing rooms using the outer mirrors because they prefer to see the back of themselves, or the view from a different distance.  Doors are also opening and closing to take and give outfits….with many an undressed woman inside!  I can’t tell you how wrong this new policy is! I nor my family will be patrons of Macy’s any longer.  Yuck!

You of all people Steve, should know “Some Like It Hot” was too good a film to deserve a holiday-themed sequel. Trust me, if a man dressing in women’s clothes wants privacy in a man’s dressing room, he will get it.

From what I’ve read, there are no known cases of someone using this rule to facilitate molestation, which isn’t to say that isn’t a possibility. To me, the central issue is simply one of modesty and propriety. Modesty should be respected. People who prefer not to change in the presence of people of the opposite sex should have that right. Seems simple enough to me. But to the gender diversity crowd, the very idea of modesty is an instrument of patriarchal, heteronormative, cisnormative oppression. Having ridded themselves of the last remaining vestiges of traditional morality, they have no patience with the idea that the world should accommodate people who have not made it that far.
 
Lest I’m not clear, I find this way of thinking disgusting.

Pachyderminator, there was a case of a transgender person assaulting a minor in Stamford, Connecticut.  By the way, that came state recently passed a rather aggressive transgender rights bill.  Read about the Stamford case here:  http://www.stamfordadvocate.com/news/article/Stamford-transgender-person-charged-with-sexually-1414876.php#ixzz1OulJoMgy

This makes me very angry. My wife and I occasionally shop at Macy’s and I find it quite terrifying, for lack of a better word, to think that Macy’s allows any man dressed as a woman to use the same section meant for women to try out their new clothes (including intimate apparel!). Their policy is also self destructive because you can’t combine two opposites. One will have to give in, and as we saw, Ms. Johnson ended up paying by losing her job.

While I believe it’s insanity for Macy’s to allow men to utilize women’s fitting rooms—as someone else said, if they’re so sensitive, create transgender fitting rooms—I also wholly disagree that it violated the employee’s religious beliefs to allow the young man in.  A pharmacist being forced to dispense birth control pills violates a religious belief.  Not this.  At most this is an ethical dilemma, and even then would be more so if a female customer had actually approached the employee and asked her to not allow the man in.  Of course, I wasn’t there.  Maybe other customers were in fact complaining that it made them uncomfortable.  The employee was still incorrect in thinking that the company’s nondiscrimination policy toward religion allowed her to bar a customer from an area of their store.

Keith - perhaps I should have been more clear what I was getting at so as not to be considered naive and foolish by you.  Although since you don’t know what I was getting at, I’m not sure why you would assume that I am that.  I was thanking Becca for pointing out that we need to have more compassion towards the spiritual alienation of these individuals.  I mean, honestly, can you even imagine what that must be like?  I am a single heterosexual woman and half the time I feel like I can’t even keep it together regarding that in this world and the expectations I perceive from my Church, let alone if I had this type of turmoil going on in my heart.  My concern and dislike of these posts, which sadly I am finding to be the norm and discouraging in my struggle to become a better Catholic, is that there is no mention of the above alienation. As if that’s somehow not a problem that we should be trying to help with.  We deride, we boycott Macy’s, we say that anyone who might disagree is foolish and naive and misguided.  But we never discuss the people at the heart of these stories, the people who have their own struggles, those that I likely can never even begin to fathom.  And we never talk about how we can meet those individuals, and respect them as human beings with intrinsic dignity, even if we uphold the Catholic teachings on these matters.  Now why is that Keith?

Having been employed by a national chain that sells wedding and prom gowns, I was indoctrinated to the LGBTQW agenda and was not too concerned as I thought that a woman’s store would not have presented an opportunity to service anyone but women. My position in that establishment was as an alterations provider. Many a day I would unzip a gown to fit it to the girls and lo, they girls would be butt naked under the gowns. Putting aside the hygienic problems with these situations, I learned to deal with it as I am female, but the evening that I was forced to pin a gown to a guy was the day I left that job. I treated him with dignity, but felt violated and discussed that I was put in that position, and was very thankful that no other customers were in the dressing area at the time. There is not enough money in the world to convince me to make women’s clothing fit a male. Needless to say I did not unzip his gown. TMI. Never regretted leaving that job. Corporate America can keep their diversity training. It is an insult to any modest thinking person. Put lipstick on a pig and it is still a pig.

“Posted by Becca on Monday, Dec 12, 2011 12:10 PM (EST):

Frankly, Steven, while I wouldn’t like to be looked in on by a peeping Tom in a dressing room, it is rare in a dressing room that I am ever in more of a state of undress than I would be wearing a swimsuit. It would be odd, but would also be easily handled by an attendant and/or the collective occupants of the dressing area. And it wouldn’t traumatize me, in any event, nor do I know many women who would feel victimized in that situation.”

i for one have run out of dressing room/bathroom/etc because some man was in there…cleaning at 24-hour places, lost when he is blind, attempting to molest me…i ran out half dressed to someone who could protect me…i didnt know better, i was 12, 13, 16 at those times…now im 47 and had a stroke, but when it happens again, i got my cell phone and will call everybodyn i know…

“Another point: not all stores have gender segregated dressing areas. I wouldn’t boycott those stores just because of that… and I don’t think many people on this site would, either. It’s telling that these concerns only come out when larger stores develop more restrictive segregation policies than boutiques or smaller stores—but with allowances for transgender folks.”

smaller stores have smaller rooms available, fewer rooms availble…but with locks inside, and with mirrors inside…one person with those rooms, handing out little cards with no of items…you have a serious problem

Jill, I truly find puzzling how allowing men into a women’s dressing room in any way elevates the inherent dignity of the LGBT. Your comment is truly off-mark of the point of this entire debacle. As women, we are much more vulnerable to harm and ill-intent then men are. To purposefully put women in a position where their privacy and modesty is violated, just to spare someone’s “feelings” is gross, absurd and insulting to the n’th degree to every woman. You are more than free and welcome to start an outreach at your Church to people in such turmoil. But would you mind at the same time, allowing me and my daughter the right to our dignity, of not having to be in a state of undress in the company of a strange man just in the next stall over?

ilovepgh- where did I say that I support this policy?

Jill, it was probably about how these posts discourage you as a Catholic. I don’t think it was unreasonable to interpret that as someone who disagrees with the majority opinion voiced here, that what Macy’s is doing is just sick and vulgar. I guess I am now confused just what your point truly is then. I don’t think anyone here would be likely to verbally or otherwise assault any one of these individuals. At the same time, I think we are all getting a little battle-fatigued at the wholesale assumption in the world that we live in, that everybody’s *feelings* - but ours - must be respected and glorified. Why do the feelings of the one offender, matter more than the feelings of tens or hundreds of others who are offended? We shouldn’t trample on feelings purposefully, but at the same time, some standard of decency must be set.

@Upbeat Dad. You took the thoughts right out of me. What a wonderfully intelligent and sensitive way of putting it though! Kudos

@ilovepgh. Well said. One of the tactics of an enemy (I refer here to spiritual beings, not human) is to wear down their victim. As scripture says, Satan is the author of confusion, and we are neck-deep in it these days. To Becca and Jill: you have probably never been assaulted or had a child molested so naïveté is not surprising. Unfortunately, predators do not have compassion, as you do, and are unbelievably wily and devious. I pray for them as well as their victims, some of whom have not survived. My granddaughter’s best friend’s friend, a girl of seven, was abducted in the midst of a group of people at a party. Her body was just found in a dumpster in nice little Canton, GA. Another friend of my gd was attacked in my daughter ‘s front yard in an exclusive subdivision, a 12-yr-old boy trying twice to hit her in the head with a hatchet. This is not the America we knew and we must be cautious to an extraordinary degree to protect ourselves and our loved ones. This is not directly the fault of cross dressers, LGBT folk, but misguided regulations can leave open a path for people who ARE intent on evil. The Euro solution sounds most sensible to me. Some local stores have dressings rooms with a mere scrap of a curtain and no one monitoring them. Nor is it unusual to have others pull the curtain aside and peer in. If I would not leave my purse in one, why would I leave my child? Especially at Macy’s: I am finished with them for good.

@upbeat dad. Bravo. Your head is on straight for sure. I wish it were contagious!

I have no idea why my first post was suspected of being spam. Can you give me a clue? I have posted here many times without a problem. As it was rather long, I can’t repeat it but thought it added to the discussion.

Becca, let’s put it this way: the vast majority of heterosexual men aren’t sex offenders and aren’t going to assault women in women’s fitting rooms, restrooms, or gym changing areas.  Does that mean that heterosexual men should be allowed in women’s fitting rooms, restrooms, or gym changing areas?

If the answer is that no men should be allowed in places where women have a reasonable assumption of single-sex privacy and safety, then that applies to all who are genetically male, whether they are heterosexual, homosexual, bisexual, transgendered, cross-dressers, or on a journey of discovery toward any of the above.  This is not unjust discrimination against people with gender confusion issues; it’s protecting women and keeping them from being placed at risk or put in positions of vulnerability for no legitimate reason.

This is an example how America goes mad. The Shops want to make money and they are not concerned about sexual manners. Ultimately money will become the god and any thing will be permissible anywhere . Thus America is disregarding the human civilization that was formed in thousands of years yielding to a pell mell disorderly and dangerous culture

I wish stores would have dressing rooms for *actual* females who prefer a modicum of dignity and their privacy and not be subjected to any nasty surprises, and then let there be next-door, dressing rooms for those who are searching, questioning, experimenting, or otherwise not sure who or what they are gender-wise.

Until then, I’ll try things on at home, and thank goodness these stores have a generous returns policy.

More and more, normal human being are fleeing the public square, and moving back into our own homes. Maybe this is not such a bad thing.

I think it is interesting that the only moral complaints that Macy’s is responding to on its site is this issue. It’s a canned response but they are responding to every post.

They are completely ignoring posts by people complaining about child exploitation.

Sorry, but this is ridiculous.  One only needs to look at themselves to know what gender they are.  If their “inmost felt gender” is something else, then that is called a “mental illness” and they need to get help.

I have similar problems with a teenager of mine.  There are “feelings” and then there is reality, but many people can’t distinguish between the two.  Feelings are overcoming reality in our culture, and it’s probably the end stage of the rampant narcissism that has continued unchecked for far too long.

Macy’s, you have lost a customer.  It is simply crazy to allow people to enter opposite sex dressing rooms because of their feelings.  An entire company is willfully denying reality.

It’s the same thing when media reports “man gets pregnant.”  It’s obviously actually a woman.  Surely we are approaching the dissolution of society when you have so many people walking around completely detached from reality.

actually becca, I don’t know what world you live in, but I had to call the cops on a creep that was peaking and lusting over my daughter in a dressing room. Wait till that creep finds out all he needs to do is dress like a girl and he’ll be let in very easily in the dressing rooms. how disgusting

Jill,
If you truly want to be a better Catholic, you ought to consider starting by accepting the Church’s teaching, including on human sexuality. It is insanity itself to think you can become a better Catholic by dissenting from official Church teaching. Sometimes the only way to grow in the faith is to humbly accept what the Church offers us, not deciding for ourselves. The Catechism says (#2333) “Everyone, man and woman, should acknowledge and accept his sexual identity.”  I’m afraid your thinking has verged into Gnosticism - we are NOT souls in a body, we are a psychosomatic UNITY viz. we are a Body-Soul unity, it is impossible to be a Man in a Woman’s body (or vice-versa) because we don’t just HAVE bodies, rather we ARE our bodies. Remember, the promise of Jesus is that we will be resurrected IN OUR BODIES to live eternally.

Romano - I appreciate your concern for me, but again, I’m not sure where I stated that I do not accept the Church’s teaching on human sexuality or any other issue for that matter.  In the future I will just stop posting here since everyone presumes what I think and believe and that I am just naive, foolish, misguided or a bad Catholic if I try to even make the point that in these discussions we cannot lose sight of individuals who are really struggling.  Perhaps you could say a prayer or two for me as I continue to try and grow in the faith through other forums?  Thank you in advance.

Not all men dressed as women are “transsexuals” or “transgendered”. It is well known that heterosexual cross-dressers dress as women as part of a fetish in order to arouse themselves. These cross dressers are much more numerous than “trans” people and we deserve to be protected from them.

1. not all homosexuals cross-dress, therefore, you’ve probably used a dressing room that homosexual has used before. how do you, then, determine if someone is homosexual? do they need to post a sign around their neck so you can see them coming and stay clear? homosexuality, and cross-dressing is not always as clearly definable as in this situation. Should we subject people to full body pat downs before they’re allowed to enter a dressing room?

what stops a homosexual from using a fitting room that correlates with their gender? a homosexual woman is still allowed to use a woman’s fitting room…

2. homosexuality is not a disease, or a ‘mental illness’, unless..“Dave” you are in fact the first doctor in modern medical science to identify the “gay gene”. a persons “feelings” identify them. Your “feelings” of faith identify you the same way a homosexuals “feelings” identify them.

The only thing dangerous about any of this, is the lack of actual original thought from any of you. Equality is larger than religion. Equality is larger than you are. If you can only believe in the possibilities that have been presented to you..then you’ll never be able to see the amazing world outside of your box.

“It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it.” -Aristotle

Brandi - here’s some original thoughts.  Scripture is clear that homosexuality is a sin and that God does not like it.  But, wait a minute, exactly why doesn’t God like it?  I mean, he must have a reason, right?  In fact, there is a good reason.  Whether we want to admit it or not, the sad truth is that homosexuals TEND TO live short, troubled, unhealthy lives.  In other words, homosexuality harms people who engage in it and since we are God’s children, and he loves us, he doesn’t want us to be harmed.  No parent would want to see their child engaging in harmful activity - so he warns us to avoid this in scripture.  How does homosexuality harm us?  There are studies showing that the average life expectancy of a male homosexual is only 38 years!  Even before AIDS it was only 48! There’s a variety of reasons for this, but one of them is not Catholics breaking into their homes and harming them.  There are high rates of depression, substance abuse, domestic abuse, and unfortunately, suicide.  There are also high rates physical ailments including anal cancer and urinary tract diseases - all rarely found in heterosexuals.  Then there’s the penchant for rampant promiscuity.  What about the rumors of homosexuals showing up in hospital emergency rooms with foreign objects inserted into their rectums?  They are true.  I have a family member who works in a big city emergency room and has seen this first hand.  Loss of control over one’s bowel movements due to inappropriate use of one’s anatomy is also a fact of life.  All of this rather ugly reality is conveniently swept under the carpet for the sake of not offending anyone.  Also, up until 1973 (the same enlightened year as Roe vs. Wade, by the way), the American Psychiatric Association did indeed classify homosexuality as a mental disorder, which it is - even if it is not genetic.  What else would you call it when a person is driven to indulge in desires that yield the above results?  Click on this link and scroll down to the question: “What does scienctific eveidence show about homosexuality?”  This article is well foot noted and sites many different sources backing the statements made:  http://www.catholic.com/library/gay_marriage.asp   My heart goes out to anyone who has to wrestle with a same sex attraction just like it would go out to a person who has to deal with a substance abuse problem.  They are all sins because they harm us.  Everyone needs to pray for homosexuals just like you would for anyone else.  And, they must absolutely be treated with dignity (CCC 2357-9).  They need prayer, love, and care.  But, to encourage this behavior, on any level, by coming up with an argument which is ignorant of the hard realities is evil because you are encouraging people to harm themselves.  Turning society upside down for a small minority is wrong.

“Brandi - here’s some original thoughts.  Scripture..” and there you lost me. nothing about the bible is original..and, it is by far, one of the most RECENT books on spirituality, edited several times by men who only want you to read what suits them.

“What about the rumors of homosexuals showing up in hospital emergency rooms with foreign objects inserted into their rectums?” ‘Cause straight people couldn’t possibly find it erogenous to stick things up their butt.

“I have a family member who works in a big city emergency room and has seen this first hand.” The big city, huh? where they have cars, and those moving picture boxes in every home..wtf is this 1812?

“Also, up until 1973 (the same enlightened year as Roe vs. Wade, by the way), the American Psychiatric Association did indeed classify homosexuality as a mental disorder” Up until 1910, hysteria was a common medical diagnosis in women…caused by the uterus, and the only way to cure it was “hysterical paroxysm” (masturbation until orgasm)..so, old, debunked theories should just be brought up as valid argument because you have nothing else?

“Turning society upside down for a small minority is wrong.” ...what? Telling someone they’re less equal than you because they don’t have your beliefs is wrong. How is allowing someone the same rights as everyone else wrong? This country was founded on minority beliefs. Judging people is wrong, and it is not your place.

What happened in the store is BEYOND RELIGION. Your “god” has no place to tell someone they can’t use a changing room..that’s about as bad as telling someone they can’t use a drinking fountain because they’re black. What happened is someone got offended, offended someone else, and someone had to pay for it. If all you ship jumpers really have a problem with Macy’s anti-hate policies, then you should also stop buying/using/shopping pretty much everything..‘cause you never know what those crazy homosexuals might have their footings in.

It is true that people who have these sexuality/sexual identity/gender issues are greatly misunderstood and do suffer a lot of mistreatment. For example, gay teenage guys DO get beaten up a lot and that kind of thing. BUT that does not mean that things like cross-dressing are normal, or that we women should have to have men in our dressing room. And because as someone points out some/many crossdressers are not gay, all the more reason I do not want them in the dressing room where I am - I don’t want normal typical men in the dressing room, nor cross-dressing men.

We should make every attempt not to be unnecessarily hurtful when we speak of folks with these disorders. But, again, it is still disordered, and it’s not hatred to say so, nor should we all be forced to pretend everything is normal when some man comes in dressed as a woman….

Well Brandi,  thank-you for showing us what happens when one tries to engage in an intellectual conversation with a child.  You do realize that you’re on a Catholic web site, right?  Why should it surprise you when someone references the Bible?  The Bible has thousands of years of accumulated wisdom in it with regards to humans and how they interact with themselves and God. You seem to have summarily dismissed it and you’ve probably never even tried to crack it open to se what it has to say.  Not much sense in continuing this conversation.  I will pray for you.

Here in MA we are dealing with something similar, the legislature has passed a bill that allows trans-sexuals and transgendered persons to use and bathroom they want in public buildings and are pushing to include private business’s bathrooms as well.  There is an expectation of privacy and security when using a rest room or a changing room. It has nothing to do with being bigoted. I understand stores want to cater to this group because if the GLBTG groups become offended the stores face alot of backlash as well as potential law suits.  They know most men and women will not make a stink about being offended or feeling uncomfortable with having men in the ladies area and women in the mens area.  I like the idea of single changing rooms so then nobody can squawk.  Or bathrooms that are posted as unisex.  No suprises or awkward situations. 
And to Brandi, most peoples objections to this situation has nothing to do with their religious views.  Its not taking away someone’s rights or making them a second class citizen by expecting some one with a penis to use a mens area and some one with a vagina to use a womens area… nobody is saying that the cross dresser can’t try on clothes for goodness sake, just he should be trying them on in the MEN’s changing area.

intellectual conversation, huh? you do realize you’re on a catholic web site, right? And, to have the misguided perception that just because I don’t jump to passages in a book doesn’t mean I wouldn’t know what’s inside. That’s ridiculously asinine, and beyond judgmental. What surprises me, is that, without taking into account that the bible might not matter to everyone, people have the inability to regard others as anything other than Human.

The problem with the situation, is that after willingly accepting a job at a place with stated policies in place on how to handle the situation, the girl (regardless of her religious inflections) didn’t abide by the rules of her job. That’s her own fault. If she had a problem with it, she probably shouldn’t have accepted the position.

I can understand someone feeling uncomfortable in a situation when they have an expectation of what social norms should be, and it’s shattered because not everyone fits into this little box. What I can’t understand, is why, when a person doesn’t fit into that box, they must then conform to standards of what is “acceptable” just because it might make someone uncomfortable.

Brandi, what you’re failing to grasp is that it’s not “all about you” per se.  I am really sorry for those folks who are confused about their gender.  That has got to be a terrible place to be.  But the small minority does not have the right to disregard the feelings of the masses.  I do not expect the world to conform to my own personal needs and desires so why should anyone else?  I do my best to cope with whatever issues I may have and “deal with it” by accepting my station in life with grace and humility.  If you are one of those unfortunate souls with a same sex attraction, I encourage you to check out the Catholic Church’s Courage Apostolate.

Becca: ever need a new bra?  It’s rarely possible to be sure it fits without trying it on—even when familiar with the brand—and very hard to try it on with anything underneath.  Some stores have dedicated fitting rooms in their lingerie sections, but not all.  The difference, I think, between undergarments and a swimsuit is time and place.  Beaches and pools are generally public places even when they have a degree of restrictiveness such as membership; there’s not as much of a reasonable expectation of privacy. 
Oh, and some people are indeed more inclined to suffer psychological disturbance than others, but I’d be careful about inferring causation.
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sleepyhead: at my alma mater there used to be a male janitor who cleaned in the dorm showers while young women were in there.  I would make sure he was not in there if I was going to shower, or if he was, I’d wait twenty or thirty minutes.  I think he was harmless but it was a completely inappropriate situation nevertheless.  I unfortunately didn’t have the moxie to complain.
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New Yorker: I recall hearing about that.  I’m not into conspiracy theories as a rule, however, someone did point out that a) the current governor was born in Stamford and was mayor for years; b) the governor personally twisted arms to get the votes; and c) the incident didn’t become public knowledge until about a month after it happened, by which time the bill had passed.  I’m not saying it isn’t all a coincidence, but if I were them, I’d be concerned about even the appearance.
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I agree that it would be wrong to indiscriminately label these individuals as predators.  But frankly, they aren’t the ones I’m worried about anyway—it’s the ones who actually are.  I wrote to my legislator, making it clear that I am all for everyone being able to maintain dignity in public spaces, but that I thought the CT bill was poorly considered.  I also am aware that some women are secretly armed (I knew one who carried a knife) and will not wait for someone else to come to their defense if they feel threatened, and privacy-sensitive spaces are bad places to even have a misunderstanding.

Becca: Bras.  It’s rarely possible to be sure it fits without trying it on—even when familiar with the brand—and very hard to try it on with anything underneath.  Some stores have dedicated fitting rooms in their lingerie sections, but not all.  The difference, I think, between undergarments and a swimsuit is time and place.  Beaches and pools are generally public places even when they have a degree of restrictiveness such as membership; there’s not as much of a reasonable expectation of privacy. 
Oh, and some people are indeed more inclined to suffer psychological disturbance than others, but I’d be careful about inferring causation.
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sleepyhead: at my alma mater there used to be a male janitor who cleaned in the dorm showers while young women were in there.  I would make sure he was not in there if I was going to shower, or if he was, I’d wait twenty or thirty minutes.  I think he was harmless but it was a completely inappropriate situation nevertheless.  I unfortunately didn’t have the moxie to complain.
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New Yorker: I recall hearing about that.  I’m not into conspiracy theories as a rule, however, someone did point out that a) the current governor was born in Stamford and was mayor for years; b) the governor personally twisted arms to get the votes; and c) the incident didn’t become public knowledge until about a month after it happened, by which time the bill had passed.  I’m not saying it isn’t all a coincidence, but if I were them, I’d be concerned about even the appearance.

What does a person have to do around here to quit having legitimate remarks flagged as spam?

Becca: the problem with bras is it’s rarely possible to be sure one fits without trying it on—even when familiar with the brand—and very hard to try it on with anything underneath.  Some stores have dedicated fitting rooms in their lingerie sections, but not all.  The difference, I think, between undergarments and a swimsuit is time and place.  Beaches and pools are generally public places even when they have a degree of restrictiveness such as membership; there’s not as much of a reasonable expectation of privacy. 
Oh, and some people are indeed more inclined to suffer psychological disturbance than others, but I’d be careful about inferring causation.

Jill: I’m sorry, but who is this “everyone”?  You do realize that comboxes bring together many disparate individuals, don’t you?  Those who presume nothing don’t often feel the need to say anything, while those who do…well, you get the idea.
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Brandi: your argument needs work.  It’s very difficult to narrow down the cause of most mental illness.  Even if a genetic predisposition is present, one can at this point not be sure what will trigger it or when.
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By the way, there’s very little in your argument I haven’t seen or heard before—including when you dismiss the ER experience over something inconsequential without bothering to address it—and you have the nerve to accuse us of being unoriginal?  In my candid assessment, granted that this is the sterile world of the internet, is that you’re coming off as full of your own intellect as well as being pretty condescending, and I think we’d all appreciate if you’d try to knock it off.  The woman was evidently hired under the impression that their policy protects religious people too, including employees, and the question is what principles they care about when push comes to shove.  Even then you are reducing a potential safety issue for the female customers in the changing room to mere ‘discomfort’ over ‘social norms,’ and I’m afraid I have to ask, did you read the previous posts?  Where have you been?

I had an interview with Macys for an office position. Well, that position was filled and all that was left was retail. One, I was as flexible as I could with the schedule but would’ve required working on weekends-leaving no time for church and I don’t think retail is considered a “service” occupation. Two, I have a bad ankle and they would not accommodate me. I have this problem with all retail positions.
In this particular case, Macys could’ve transferred her to another department (shoes, or jewelry for instance) instead of firing her. That being said, the employee should’ve thought ahead and considered this may be an issue at any time and only work in departments where it would be less controversial such as perfumes or makeup.

Brandi,
I guess you have difficulties with reading comprehension.  The discussion here is not about homosexuality per se.  We could have that discussion, but here we are talking about cross-dressing and men who think they are women, etc.  Some of those people are homosexual and some are not.

I maintain that it’s a mental illness for a man to think they are a woman, and vice versa.  Why?  It’s a denial of reality.  If I were to claim that I was a giraffe, I sure hope that you’d try to get me help rather than start referring to me as a giraffe and protect me from being poached.

Your Aristotle quote is nice, but where do you see any evidence that we haven’t entertained other thoughts?  Quite a few of us, including me, were not always Catholic, and we are all perfectly capable of entertaining other ways of thinking, even when we think they are incorrect.

Something I do not see as part of the discussion yet is the value of modesty, particularly in front of the opposite sex.  How are we to model it and teach it to our children when situations like this exist and are being pushed as “normal”?

I don’t shop at stores that have open dressing areas without partitions and at least curtains because I choose to retain my sense of modesty.  Nor will I be shopping at Macy’s until they change this policy, and I’ve told them so by email.

This made me think about Old Navy and how they have one dressing room for all. No one seems to have a problem with those dressing rooms.

see this story: at MACYS fitting rooms allow anyone to see in!! so men are allowed in!?? thats why crimes are happening all over the country in their fitting rooms!

http://losangeles.cbslocal.com/2011/09/20/is-your-privacy-being-compromised-in-local-dressing-rooms/

New Yorker, my thoughts exactly.  I wrote Macy’s but received no response.

Old Navy dressing rooms offer more privacy and lock automatically as soon as you close the door.  Plus, there is always a clerk in the dressing area so no one could get attacked.  Macy’s dressing rooms are different.  They do not automatically lock and sales clerks are normally no where near at least at the Macy’s store I shop at.  I don’t like the idea of men in dressing rooms period.  Once a young man was in the female dressing area with his wife or girlfriend.  I complained because it’s uncomfortable to have a man in there.  The clerk told him to leave.  He took like a real man and no one got fired.  I’m so tired of these whiney liberal wimps.

I have been calling every executive at Macys that I can reach. I am being told that they DO NOT discuss personnel matters, as the author of this story reported. We all know that childhood sexual predators, sexual deviants and rapists will do anything to get to their prey. What if my young daughter is in the dressing room and a man dressed as a woman, spies her half naked? What if he follows her out of the store and abducts her? POLITICAL CORRECTNESS on the part of Macy’s policy is creating an unsafe environment for both girls and women. It is time for us to call for a boycott until they change their policy. I have read their policy and it allows this to occur, because they say it is included under the section on harassment. I also think that we, who are outraged by this, to picket Macy stores. They certainly don’t want this publicity around Christmas, the birth od Christ. Political correctness, in this instance, is putting the lives of little girls and women in great danger. Please, call all the numbers you can find for Macey/Bloomingdale, and lodge a protest of this dangerous policy. BOYCOTT AND PICKET MACYS/BLOOMINGDALES.

This is a weird discussion this post is having. Here you sew the seeds of irrational fear and reap the bigotry in due time. The church is not a moral standard on where and when to change one’s clothes. When I was confessing, at boy scout camp and in the rectory, to a priest who routinely abused boys, the church claimed to be the moral standard and its executives were very unresponsive. There is no real harm in Macys/Bloomingdales policies. There is, however, documented harm in the deep and systemic flaws in the supernatural administrations of the church. Remove the beams out of your eyes. Clean your own house.

Bill, should we stop obeying the law because there’s corrupt police officers?  Do we throw the good out with the bad?  If the Catholic Church’s moral standards are no good, then which one should we use?  Yours?  Mine?  What will guide us in discerning right from wrong?  Please explain.

The only resolution to the desire to accomdate this is to create single use unisex dressing rooms and bathrooms.  Anything else is not acceptable to expect men and women to share facilities regardless of their mental or surgically modified gender.

Thank you, Mr. Greydanus, for this post!  I would have signed the petition, but I’m not old enough! :)  I plan to call them tomorrow, can you believe what is becoming acceptable in this world?  God Bless!

I don’t usually comment this far into a combox but I had experience with this issue several years ago as a sales associate in a well known women’s specialty store. Believe me this has been going on quietly for years, We had a customer who used to come into the store on a regular basis who was obviously a cross dresser. He/she would invariably ask to use a dressing room. As store policy we had often used a double-entrendre phrase to describe the woman’s dressing room area as “no man’s land” to discourage husbands accompanying their shopping wives from entering.( Believe me I could write a book about the fitting room experiences I had during the 13 years thus employed.) Some women wanted their hubbies to come in with them so they could give their sartorial opinion. Some women have very controlling husbands, even to the point of deciding what they should wear. We had a large three way mirror for customers to use in a common area that was opposite several private rooms with doors. The rooms also had mirrors allowing the women to remain the the private enclosure if they chose. Most woment when dressed,however, in the outfit being considered, liked to come out in the common area to view how the garments fit from back, sides, etc. They would be most uncomfortably shocked if men were in this area. We did not wish our customers to be embarrassed nor made to feel uncomfortable as part of their shopping experience. Some husbands were tall enough to be able to see over the tops of these private enclosures if inside one room with their wife.  We felt strongly about this so had the no man’s land policy which was generally observed.
While men were not allowed in the fitting room area we did have comfortable chairs for husbands to wait for their wives to come out and model their new outfit if they chose. When a man insisted upon accompanying his wife/girl-friend into the fitting room, we allowed deferred to the request but we somewhat altered our personal service to show our disapproval. Most got the idea they were out of bounds as far as the women in the store were concerned.  When the cross dresser appeared it was just the opposite. We gave him UNDUE attention thus making his next intrusion less likely. It is difficult to know when and where to draw the line when in this business without alerting all the lawyers to the possibilites of a law suit..the last thing any business needs.  While I think it is ridiculous for gender/bender types to push/force their life-style in this way, I think it unreasonable and unrealistic for any business to take a stand against any portion of the buying public without risking costly litigation. I would take a personal stand by cutting up my Macy’s credit card and informing the company executives by mail ( with the cut-up credit card) I was closing my account and why. Much more effective to “hit” them in the bottom line believe me than a petition made up of dubious email addresses.

I also meant to add that Macy’s cannot comment on this as indeed it is now a personnel matter…the sales associate in question has involved them in litigation over this matter. I urge you all to skip the email petition as they are always deleted with the stroke of a finger. Instead flood the mails with your cut-up credit card and close your account with explanation. Or you can call the 8oo number but expect the run-around.Fight smart! Hit them in the pocket book!

@Posted by New Yorker on Saturday, Dec 17, 2011 5:00 PM (EST). I posted a reply to your question, “What will guide us in discerning right from wrong?  Please explain.” It was censored because it was too long and sourced other material. Suffice to say, you can research the answer to your question and find answers from a naturalistic world view, Buddhist world view, etc. A supernatural world view, bronze age mythology, etc. are not prerequisites nor substantive to how one conducts “moral” behavior. I will grant you this, however, humans are narrative animals, who time-bind their experience in stories, words, and thoughts. Pick and chose from your Catholic stories that which grants you and others the most peace, joy, and freedom.

@Posted by New Yorker on Saturday, Dec 17, 2011 5:00 PM (EST). I posted two replies to your question, “What will guide us in discerning right from wrong?” Both may have been censored. If not, ignore this post. If so, check with this blog’s moderator.

Bill, what does Buddhism say about abortion?  Is it right or wrong?  What about artificial contraception, divorce, euthanasia and same sex marriage?  Are those things right or wrong?

It’s clear if the fitting room say Ladies or women, it’s for females only.. if it say boys or men, no matter what, it’s for them, maybe Macy should add a fitting room that said’s ANY!! or Either!! ladies and little girls could be on there periods.It’s upsetting to know a job was lost behind this. Becuase God made Adam for Eva, Not Adam for Steve!! ...
if his birth record shows he was born a male, that’s what he is, no matter what he put on… He should have gone to the male fitting room….

@New Yorker on Tuesday, Dec 20, 2011 10:02 AM (EST). These are interesting questions you have chosen from which to evaluate Buddhism. For which you can find many different answers depending with whom you talk.

I suggest other questions which underlies these question is “Can I trust Transgender individuals? Can I trust Buddhists? Can I trust Atheist? Can I trust Bill Hallinan?” Here is some recent research on Atheist prejudice which extends to this discussion. Perhaps all we are talking about is who can we trust in this age of anonymity without relying on our religion. “Do You Believe in Atheists? Distrust Is Central to Anti-Atheist Prejudice” http://www2.psych.ubc.ca/~will/Gervais et al- Atheist Distrust.pdf

Are these stores stupid? HELLO?  What makes them not think a rapist wouldn’t use this idiotic policy to try to rape a woman?  They’ll just throw on a dress and go right into a dressing room area for women and attack them!

So, Macy’s owners, what’s next? having drag queens use the woman’s bathrooms?  Would you be comfortable with grown men in dresses being in the bathroom with your young daughters?  People need to realize the openness of gender benders and gays is not appropriate for children to be subjected to!

This whole gender bender BS is getting out of hand..You’re born a man than YOU ARE a man, not a woman, not a dishwasher, not a giraffe—a MAN!
These people are mental! And for stores like Macy’s have got to go!

Bill, it seems to me that your answer to all of the questions I have posed to you thus far is, “it depends”.  Am I right?

Im with Becca and Jill on this one…I cant believe that some man would go to all the trouble of dressing as a woman just to get a salacious peek at my back fat.  My teen daughter likes me to act as a look out when she tries on clothes no matter if there is no other human in the store, so nothing will change.

I am a devout Catholic and I believe the teachings on Sexuality but I also understand that transexual people struggle and need kindness.

The gay and transgender men trying on clothes are trying on clothes…if they want to see something interesting, its not us.

Catholic Nurse, what about all the unaccompanied teenagers and younger people trying on clothes whose parents may be waiting in the store for them, unaware that Macy’s has this bizarre policy.  They are vulnerable. Don’t kid yourself that it’s all harmless. It’s not just about trying on clothes. How long before they’re performing lewd acts or having sex in the fitting room?
People with transgender disorder need treatment, not kindness. It is still classified as a mental illness with the APA.
An ex Macy’s shopper!

Transexuals should have no special rights. They are mentally disturbed. In 1973 an ‘orchestrated criminal act’ was committed which released homosexuals from the mental health act. In the group of psychiatrists who voted to have the ‘disorder’ of homosexuality removed from the mental health act were a group of closeted homosexuals. In 1973 homosexuals were not ALLOWED BY LAW to be psychiatrists so they kept their homosexuality quiet / closeted homosexuals. These closeted homosexuals had the disorder of homosexuality removed from the DSM. The vote was against the law DUE TO the FACT they were not ALLOWED BY LAW TO VOTE. The disorder of homosexuality MUST again be placed into the DSM because **the vote was illegal**. There MUST be a full investigation of this situation and it can be remedied when the DSM is reworked in two years. This ‘reworking’ MUST be undertaken by ALL doctors and EVERY doctor to have a ‘vote’. One doctors’ license one vote. The reworking of the DSM is NOT to be undertaken by those in the ‘tainted’ groups such as the American Psychiatric Association. In 1973 it was subverted by a group of closeted homosexuals who reworked the DSM to remove THEMSELVES from the mental health act.

“Fryer was not alone in the APA. Because homosexuals were not allowed to practice psychiatry, Fryer and others like him had to hide their sexual preference, but they began to meet informally at APA conventions, calling themselves the Gay PA.”

“81 Words ” http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/81_Words

Why should the salesperson believe that the man was “transgendered”? Perhaps the man was looking for women to kidnap”

@Becca: Lady Godiva, to protest her husband’s overtaxing of the people(he was the tax collector) rode through the town covered only by her hair. Peeping Tom was blinded when he looked.

@Steve Graydanus: As movie critic, the latest version of Sherlock Holmes does not allow the “Saints preserve us” often ejaculated by Dr. Watson when presented with evil. Can they still use Sir Arthur Conan Doyle’s name?

@Brandi:“It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it.” -Aristotle

Do you know what that means?

The truth: At the Mall (name withheld) the kidnapper drugged the child, wrapped her in a blanket and told everybody she was his sick daughter and carried the child out of the store. Only when it was tried a second time was it caught.

@Bill Hallinan: “In God We Trust”...the rest is atheism trying to preempt God.

@Mary De Voe on Sunday, Jan 22, 2012 9:55 PM. From an atheist’s point of view, can you imagine how silly it sounds to say “In God we trust?” I imagine it sounds like, “In the supernatural we trust” or “In the flying spaghetti monster we trust”, etc. I understand the supernatural world view, but find it more helpful and satisfying to address social and practical problems with sound observation and thoughtfulness, trusting in us, not something outside of us.

@Becca - thank you for posting that. I was relieved to see that at least one other person here doesn’t live in the dark ages.

@Upbeat Dad - you have conflated gender and sex. Gender is not a more formal way to refer to one’s biological sex. Gender is a social construct, not a biological difference. There are multiple genders and I feel fortunate to live in a day and age in which we recognize the complexity of human gender.

As for the rest of you hateful religious types - I am sick and tired of how you all whine about how others are intolerant of your intolerance. You boast that the bible and its teachings are beneficial to mankind and yet you mobilize that book in all kinds of hateful behaviours.

@Romano - don’t get me started on the church’s teachings on human sexuality. The Catholic church does violence to human sexuality through it’s patriarchal teachings and all of the guilt associated with women’s pleasure.

Natalie was correct about the lie. What isn’t clear? If he claims he’s female yet he was born with male genitals & his chromosomes are XY, he’s lying. If she claims she’s male yet she was born with female genitalia & her chromosomes are XX, she’s lying. Anyone who believes himself to be something other than what God made him is lying. This is no different than if I claim to be Elvis Presley. No matter what pills I take,  surgery I’ve had or wardrobe changes, I’ll never be Elvis. A lie is any attempt to deceive others about who you are and what you’re doing. The sexual behavior and proclivities of LGBTs are a complete rejection of God’s holy will for them as men and women. They telling God, “I will NOT serve.” If LGBTs suffer humiliation when they put on clothes of the opposite sex (in truth, they derive pleasure from it), that is the outcome of sin. It is not Natalie’s fault, nor society’s. Also it is not Macy’s problem to solve.

I think it’s very sad that you would even address this subject at all. I am a happily married man but I wear women’s lingerie and my wife supports me. When I go to Macy’s or Bloomingdales to shop for a bra, they are always professional and helpful and yes they let me try on my selection in the women’s fitting room. The fitting rooms are all deprecate with their own secure doors do it makes no difference if its a man or woman as no one can see as you are inside a room with a closed door. So my question is do you really have that much time on your hands that this is what you choose to write about. I would say there’s something going on in your head that you are not sharing. Perhaps it’s the denial of your feminine side . Try worrying about something a little more important that a guy in drag unless of course your into that