Among the small fraction of married Catholics who don't contracept, there are two camps: those who space pregnancies by practicing NFP; and providentialists, who may or may not actively pursue pregnancy, but who do nothing to postpone it. Maybe we have respect for Catholics who are in the other camp, and maybe we don't, but we readily identify ourselves as belonging to one or the other.
Well, stop it. Why? First, because if it pits us against other Catholics, it makes us anxious to show that we're right, which is never an attitude conducive to discerning God's will. Second, because when we identify our marriage as a providentialist type or an NFP type, it implies that we have to make decisions for our future selves, rather than just making decisions for today.
It reminds me very much of the debates over homeschooling. (I know, NFP and homeschooling in one post! If I were getting paid per click, I'd also mention circumcision, vaccination, veiling, the gold standard, and legalized pot. ) The decision to homeschool is so momentous that parents will often load their entire identities into the basket labelled, "We are homeschoolers." This way of thinking is satisfying, and helps us to commit fully to our decision when we deal with the day-to-day challenges.
But what happens the next day, when life changes, as life will do, darn it? The basket tips over, and our identities get all spilled out all over the counter, and it's a big mess, right when you're trying to get supper made.
I always advise people considering homeschooling to realize that they're not signing up for a twelve-year commitment. They're just making a decision for one year. You give it your all for that one year (and obviously it's a good idea to plan ahead), but don't think too much about "How can I do this for the next twelve years?" Maybe you won't be. Maybe you will move, or get a job, or get sick, or maybe your child will turn out to have special needs you need outside help with, or maybe a new school will open that will do a better job with your kid's talents than you can. Maybe you'll just get tired, and need to take a year off.
The point is, you don't know what will happen. This is how life goes, and it's foolish to be such an extremist that you end up eating your words when you end up doing the thing you once railed against. You simply don't know what your future self will have to handle.
The other point is, you don't know what your future self will be able to handle. The future may require entirely different things from what you're managing now. Can't imagine yourself doing those things? Good news: the now-you doesn't have to. Your future self will, but your future self will have a whole new tool kit.
Do you imagine that your moral development is at its highest peak right now, and that you know and understand and accept everything you will ever need to know, understand and accept? Of course not. So if the idea of, for instance, yourself with nine kids freaks you out, that's because you're imagining the NOW-you with nine kids. If you do eventually have nine kids, you will have changed immensely in the process of having them, one by one.
Same for the idea of having to pay attention to a chart: maybe it would feel horrible to you now, but in the future, maybe it will be clearly the right thing to do. So don't even worry about that. Deal with today. Deal with this month, and this year. Don't try and deal now with the things that you might have to deal with one day.
Here's a handy example: Here I am with nine kids, with another ten years of likely fertility. For me and my husband, learning how to reach the fabled marriage-building aspects of NFP was a slow and tortured process. You'd think that a couple who practices NFP would grow more and more entrenched in an attitude of control -- that learning self-control and prudence would, almost by definition, make a couple less and less willing to accept and be at peace with the unexpected. You'd think a couple using NFP are all about saying no, to each other and to God. That's how the then-me imagined the now-me, fifteen years ago, when I thought about learning to use NFP.
But in fact, the opposite has happened: as we learn self-control, we are both a thousandfold more at peace with the idea of giving up control to God -- accepting the unexpected, adapting, being grateful. This is what self-control has taught us. That was unexpected! You never know.
So if you are a providentialist, please be a providentialist right now. Don't assume you know the first thing about couples who use NFP, because you may be one some day, and you might even like it.
And if you practice NFP and are satisfied that you have good reasons for doing so, don't assume you'll be in this situation forever. Don't think about how now-you will handle all those potential then-kids if you stopped charting: just think about what to do now.
Maybe that's why God designed women to be fertile each month, rather than, say, quarterly: so we'd have to keep thinking and thinking about it, revisiting, revising, comparing our desires and needs against our current capabilities. Our challenge is to think about eternity, but to act in the now.
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Written personally for me. As usual. Thank you!!
Nailed it, per usual.
Love it! NFP is currently a non-issue for me, but I still relate to this, particularly as it relates to homeschooling (which I am considering in the future, but making no promises).
If it is a fight Catholics want, stop fighting each other and start evangelizing those who hate us. This is what St. Francis did - to seek out those who hate us most and preach the Gospel.
If it is contraception you want to fight, and women who hate the Church because of her stance on it, start here:
http://karenknowsbest.com/2012/04/26/and-people-wonder-why-i-hate-organised-religion-so-much/
I got the ball rolling, and they have predictably hammered me for preaching about Mary and authentic sexuality. Its your turn to help me if you want. These are deeply confused and disturbed women.
So… you’re pregnant?
Or are you telling me I am?
Just tell me already, and stop being so cryptic!
Amen and amen… thanks for writing this Simcha.
And do you mean the “now-you with TWO” kids in paragraph 8, instead of twelve kids?
@Tiffany: wait, what? This is present me telling present you: no!
@Tina - argh, thanks for the catch! I meant “nine.” I really do edit these things, I swear - I’m just in such a fog these days.
Awesome, Simcha.
Best line: “it makes us anxious to show that we’re right, which is never an attitude conducive to discerning God’s will.”
This to me is absolutely key in these dicussions, as in any discussion about mothers working outside the home/staying home.
YES!! 100000000 times! Just like I was a “cloth diaper-er” and then I had another baby and got a bunch of free diposable diapers that were opened, and therefore un-donate-able, and then she slept through the night and now I only cloth diaper during the day because, I AM NOT MESSING WITH A GOOD SLEEPER! SCREW YOU, FORMER ME! (Don’t hit me for having a good sleeper because our bed is full of terrible sleepers.)
I have eaten my own words so many times in my journey from past-me (single, no kids) to now-me (married, pregnant with #7) that I know how to prepare and season them perfectly. Yummy, yummy words! Mmm, mm, good.
Amen, amen, amen!!!
Spoke straight to my heart… THANK YOU!
Now, past and future me thanks you. Super Perfect, Past perfect and Pluperfect me thank you too. Imperative me disagrees but hey, she’s annoying and I don’t listen to her as a rule.
As I see it, we have only the present moment to live. We reminisce about the past and plan for the future. Only the present belongs to us.
Awesome post! The only thing I would add is that I don’t view NFP as equivalent with postponing (since it’s great for health monitoring and TTC), though I know that’s what it gets known for. I’ve charted and been a bit of a providentialist in the past in that we didn’t plan anything based around the chart.
I’ve used NFP both to conceive and to avoid at the rare times we needed to, and mostly been in the providentialist camp most of my marriage. God is good, He leads us where we need to be when we need to be there, IF we listen to Him in faith and humility. He obviously knows more than we ever could what is really best for us.
I *am* paid by click, so thank you for the list of hot click topics.
And I love this idea of being gentle with your future self. It’s hard enough to discern God’s will for our lives right now, dragging the future us into the process is a nightmare.
I don’t have any words of wisdom or personal experience to add, but if this were Facebook, I’d totally ‘Like’ this! ;)
@Sherry: Thanks for making me laugh out loud with grammar.
This article helped quell today’s building anxiety. Thank you.
I’m pregnant with #3, and now-me thinks I just won’t tell my parents—my darling, wealthy, mainline Protestant parents who have advanced degrees in Life Planning. Maybe we’ll put a shiny bow on the baby so that when they show up at our house for Christmas, it’ll be just like getting a new puppy.
Posted by Phoebe Gleeson: I have eaten my own words so many times in my journey from past-me (single, no kids) to now-me (married, pregnant with #7) that I know how to prepare and season them perfectly. Yummy, yummy words! Mmm, mm, good.
LOL, love it.
We thought we were going to plan things the way we wanted them, and then got pregnant almost immediately after getting married. I feel like all the wonderful things that happened after that is an example of how a surprise pregnancy while using NFP is a form of it working. It’s not bad if God says, “Nope, this is my plan for you.” It’s just bad if you turn around and say, “I don’t care what you want, I’ve got better plans.”
My only gripe is with providentialists who honest-to-goodness are not taking care of their kids all that well. It’s one thing to accept a new baby every 12-18 months, it’s another to do so while your relatives are paying your bills, taxpayers are providing food stamps, and your kids look feral. God wants you to trust in Him, but He also wants you to do your job as a parent and spouse; sometimes this means saying, “I need to focus on the kids I have now.” I’ll never forget visiting friends, 11 kids in the family, and the 3-year-old was playing with a butcher knife, jamming it in and out of the wood floor. They miscarried the last half dozen children before she finally stopped conceiving. This was both unfair to their children and bad witness to others.
I just read an article you wrote about skirts vs. pants. I think it fits into the future/past/now me argument as well. Past-me was a jeans girl through and through unless I was wearing a short skating skirt or tankini…Now-me is a leggings under long skirts girl who is wearing knee length swim suits and navigating figure skating in longer “dance” skirts. The Now-me is trying to learn about this skirt thing and I figure - I can’t fully evaluate it without fully trying it (in the sense that it is not morally sinful to wear skirts - but often thought of as morally more appropriate…can’t fully evaluate it without trying it). I find my thinking changes in the doing of something. Future-me may decide on a happy-medium - but the now-me doesn’t know yet - jury is still out while the past-me would have never pictured skirts at all except to church and weddings! NFP and providentialism have had past/present/future me events in my life and both have their place. So has past/present/future me in the Catholic faith. There was a past me that was never going to be Catholic, a now me who is fervently in love with my Catholic faith but a future me who (hopefully will never leave this beautiful faith) but can more easily see why others may struggle more based on their past selves or past hurtful experiences. The goal for ALL MES is to move forward in my faith (while praying the YOUS moves forward too) and these are the tools—same as a scapular, rosary, devotion, etc. tools—that each ME will use differently through time (to help pray myself and others closer to Jesus) but will hopefully get ALL of Me at least to Purgatory and all of Yous to Heaven too—What I know for sure from past/present/future Me is that I am hopelessly helpless in this venture without YOUR prayers and God’s Grace and Mercy :-)...
BTW, while I was so busy talking about ME, I forgot to say—I love your articles!! Thanks for writing.
I love your writing…Thank you for sharing youR gifts! Thank you.
Even as a single woman, I’m LOVING this. I’m constantly hit with a guilty feeling that I don’t have a career mapped out 10, 15, 20 years in advance, and forever wonder “How would I ever be able to do this if I ever get married? Have kids?” It’s definitely helpful to think I only need to worry about present-me, not future-me. :~D
Amen Simcha! Last year we decided to homeschool our seven kids but my experienced, have a little bit of wisdom self said, “But only for one year and then we reevaluate.” How glad I am that was understood from the beginning from day one as…I’m going nuts. I need a break and I want to be nice mom, not crazy schoolteacher mom.
Never say never always holds true.
I bought a book by Nona Aguilar, about N.F.P.. It was purchased at the thrift store, which funds the parish’s school. Her method is not recommended by The Vatican, but as my first exposure to N.F.P.: it was an amazing experience to read her work. One of those, “Wish I had known then.”, moments.
Where I live: social issues creep into conversations, easily, among strangers, acquaintances, and friends, within a short period of time. Many political issues have a community surrounding it. It makes communication easy about such matters. I spoke with one woman, about N.F.P., and she, initially, adamantly asserted her extensive knowledge on the matter. She was speaking about The Rhythm Method. The two, apparently, easily are confused, generalized, as one and the same.
I was unaware, that two camps of mothers, and family planning, exist within The Catholic Church. I enjoyed being informed. My concerns about evangelizing others, based on divisions within The Catholic Church, remains minimal. I could, and probably will, care less about the matter. There are many Toms, Dicks, and Harrys, in The Catholic Church. They all have their own views. Unity is an important matter; nonetheless, my faith is a personal matter: as much pain as St. Paul felt for his crimes against Christians, as Saul, as much as he was hurt by early churches, with their licentious, immoral, back-bitten, enmity driven, congregations—he continued to evangelize—he said, it seems to me, that a number of pagans, shined more brightly than early Christians.
Although, it seems like a bit of a digression, don’t wait-up for one camp, to come on over to the other, but get out of your own, before the other shows up: so they know, that you’re busy with something. Alright, overly simplistic, it is good to have a camp: where the good news is shared. Something, naturally, to plan for ... I am right.
Simcha…..I have found NFP to be very difficult (and rewarding, yet still difficult), and support is not easy to find. When I did finally find other Catholic NFP families on the internet, I keep hearing words like “closed to life” and “contraception mentality”...I think that is unfair that we are judged so harshly. I really need the support. Breastfeeding is hard and gets lots of support, why can’t NFP be the same?
Thank you for your article. I will refer people to you. :)
@ Mightymighty - that’s the part that scares me with NFP and providentialism. What if I’m already the mother you described, yet with only five children? No, my children aren’t running around with butcher knives but with every child I worry that I’m not taking care of them well enough, not feeding them well enough because I can’t afford organic and pastured, blah, blah, not giving them enough time, not homeschooling well enough. Would God want those parents to give up being providentialists or would He want the parents to pray and work harder at taking care of the kids? As you can see, I still struggle with discernment.
Simcha,
Don’t you think labeling them as “providentialists” doesn’t help. Would you agree that it would be ok to call “those who practice NFP” anti-providentialists.
Second, how come the “providentialists” get the “don’t assume you know a thing” while the NFPers get, “And if you practice NFP and are satisfied that you have good reasons for doing so, don’t assume you’ll be in this situation forever.” It seems even in your, “Let’s not judge another’s situation, you’re doing exactly that, and as is usual today, the “providentialists” (also known as those who act in the manner that Catholics have acted since…oh, right forever) get the short end of the stick.
@Fatherof6: is the term “providentialists” insulting in some way? It was not my intention to be offensive. What term would you prefer I use? I honestly thought that was the going term, although I’m not happy with it, to be honest, because it DOES imply that people who do chart are somehow anti-Providence, which I’m sure you don’t believe.
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I tried to be balanced, but I guess I failed. I would like to note, however, that there are LOTS of things that people have done . . . oh, since, forever. Not all of them are by definition superior, just because they’re old.
If any ladies are looking for some more support in their sacrament, I am part of a community of ladies called www.livingthesacrament.com
We provide support for people in all stages of fertility….engaged, postponing, trying to conceive, pregnant, fertility problems, etc. Our goal is to help women who are using NFP (or using nothing!) by providing a safe place to talk and get support.
So come on down, we would love to haveyou
Because this person was nosy - I felt like I had to share that we didn’t use NFP and weren’t planning on it. She said, “this is a very interesting approach - are there any articles or books that I could read to find out more about it?” Uh, no. You don’t do anything, you just be. You can call it “providentialism” but it’s really just not worrying about it for right now and if you do have to worry about it - then you can use NFP - which means that its not “providentialism”. But if you have to have a google search term then you’ve already missed the point.
I wish I had this post to refer her to.
Thanks for this.
I think it’s important to think about what the Church REALLY teaches about NFP, AND I agree we do not need to “pit ourselves” against each other. There are some important issues here, and it’s not just about how one “feels”. I don’t intend to judge the intentions or the situations of those who do or do not use NFP. But it’s one thing to say “you might change your mind” about homeschooling; it’s quite another if you choose the topic of abortion or euthanasia. Some things don’t change, even if one’s feelings about them do. We should dig deep to find out where NFP is on this continuum, because in the end, it’s about souls.
Absolutely agree, Boyd. The Church is very clear: abortion? Never. Euthanasia? Never. NFP? When the couple prayerfully discerns it’s appropriate. It’s not about feelings at all. It’s about something much trickier than that: private relationships.
Feelings are pretty integral to private relationships.
@Claire: Well, sure, if you’re a LADY.
No, but seriously, you’re right, Claire. And Jay, my apologies for calling you by your last name - just carelessness.
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Jay, I agree that we should dig deep, and this means doing a close reading of the actual relevant documents. There are many and many an internet blogger who will try to present his own point of view as Church teaching. Taylor Marshall recently did this re: reasons to postpone pregnancy, and I believe he’s barking up the wrong tree. Caveat emptor. There is a reason the catechism is so thoroughly indexed and numbered: so you can quote it easily. If someone tells you (I’m just using the general “you”) that such-and-such is Church teaching, then it’s always good to ask for an authoritative source.
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Gotta go out now, so if this conversation goes bonkers, I won’t be here to see it.
@Karyn: I think a huge difference is that you are TRYING to discern. This family assumed that if God “got them pregnant”, then they were golden. All large families are going to function a little wonky, but there’s all that sibling love to make it worthwhile. The real issue is when parents aren’t paying any attention to what their kids need; it seems to go hand-in-hand with loving the 4th Commandment as a way to label any complaints kids share as “disrespect” or something. “The problem isn’t that we’re living like hillbillies, it’s that our kids are ungrateful and don’t help out enough!” I resent that attitude from my parents 1000x more than I ever resented being poor.
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Also, I really wouldn’t worry that you are neglecting your kids if it is a matter of not giving them nice enough stuff. Organic and pastured is nice, but not going that route isn’t child abuse. I’d give them enough time by actually keeping a checklist of your “must do today” things, and include “read Angela a Little Bear book”, “Spend 10 minutes building train tracks with Mikey” “Let Denean help with dinner”, etc. Make the things concrete so you can measure your progress. I only have two kids, but I work full time, partially from home, partially in the evenings when my husband takes over; it’s a struggle to do “everything”. And nobody homeschools well enough. But homeschooling at an “average” level is almost always twice as good as an average school education. Try to saturate them in literature, since reading is the heart of schooling. You don’t need to do everything perfectly. I haven’t used it yet, but people say that Mother of Divine Grace is a phenomenal curriculum that avoids busywork.
@ Jay Boyd / @fatherof6: I believe, that John Paul II university teaches a Vatican II approved Natural Family Planning method. You might search for it, on the internet. It is regarded to be around 96% effective, as opposed to say, 99%, effective. The drop in effectiveness, is due to another teaching of The Catholic Faith, regarding masturbation. Additionally, that Catholics in such-and-such a relationship, with so many characteristics, are to be receptive to having a family. Science on the matter of human reproduction, prior to the 1980’s, was sorely lacking. We remain ignorant of much. The church has never been opposed to science, and the application of intelligence, to human matters: when the human will has been applied to the support of God, and his creation. Rather, the church always has been opposed to indifference to such things. This is a matter of grave importance, today, because we face so many means of killing, children, globally in such ways, that deceptively hides human life. One beauty of natural family planning, is not only the science, but the wonder of human reproduction, and what a beautiful thing can be done in Holy Matrimony, to conceive, and pass on the faith, and in a post-modern world, when so many artifacts of world wars, testify to mass production of destructive means, and subsequent devaluation of human life. Natural Family Planning does not do this—as does contraception to the end of preventing childbirth—but it does allow us to acknowledge, and accept, and affirm the stresses, the strains of daily life, and counters post-modern’s celebration of chaos, through the destruction of World War I, and II, with a celebration, or at least practice, of understanding, and order, and beauty, in something we ought to cherish so much, as an infant like Jesus’ Nativity. We need not obliterate the beauty of creation, and Providence, with what we find microscopically, through our refusal to see through man’s creation, but rather see the image, and nurture the living, rather than give it a pill to shrivel it up and let it die.
I love this. I’m going to print it and put it with my favorite articles so I don’t lose it. We just had our ninth baby six weeks ago, and people are always asking if we’re done now. This idea -just deal with today - is what I try to explain when I answer them. People can waste their whole lives thinking about what they’re going to do, instead of just living the moment they have.
NFP does not work for everyone. If it works for you, great. But if not, then you have a problem. Not everyone can handle nine kids and should not be forced to.
Simcha: But I thought our Church teaches that NFP is only to be practiced in serious cases, for serious reasons, extreme situations? You, however, say: “When the couple prayerfully discerns it’s appropriate.” I don’t mean to be argumentative, and I personally am not in the situation at all where I have to face this situation, but shouldn’t the Church teaching not get lost in this discussion? Granted, the wording regarding this, after VII, is a little ambiguous. But I believe the teaching has not changed. Am I wrong?
Austin, I’m not entirely familiar with your view, but N.F.P.‘s failure to work is not a problem among Catholics, because of their receptivity to having children, but rather there are problems to others in having more than one child, and often, it seems to me, those problems are views given in the classroom, of public schools, and other attitudes regarding families, women, careers, and so-on. Forcing women into childbearing, is perhaps not so much of an issue, among those whom married in a legitimate manner within The Catholic Church, because they were properly instructed in their faith, regarding the matter. It may be an issue among other social groups, or cultural groups. There are those whom enjoy having large families. There is nothing wrong with having a large family. There is nothing wrong with planning to have a large family. Forcing others into marriage, or family, would appear to be wrong; although, it seems the term “force” is somewhat vague. Natural Family Planning can be done in error; however, does this make having a family an error? The biology between one woman, and another, is not going to vary so much, that as Natural Family Planning goes: it will not work from one woman to the next, ...
Good post. I didn’t realize that there was such a divide, or perceived divide, between couples who use NFP to postpone pregnancy, and those who take children as they come with no effort to postpone. I completely agree that the idea is to take fertility one cycle at a time, and to re-evaluate frequently whether or not you have a serious reason to postpone pregnancy.
But Simcha, I don’t fit in either class! Hahaha! I consider myself in the lazy class. Gee, take a CLASS on how to get or not get pregnant! What?!? As my mother-in-law put it ever so gently 20 some-odd years ago, “If you don’t want a baby, just be sure you don’t ‘have fun’ when YOU want to!” But seriously, I do know the basics but have not taken a class or even read through an entire book on the subject. I guess the only reason I picked up the book in the first place was to be able to tell the obgyn that we were using NFP and be able to sound somewhat intelligible. We have 8 kids—not one of them ‘planned’ but all of them ‘figured’ if that makes sense. I will admit, though, that in these later years we have abstained a good deal, not taking any ‘chances’ (I’ll be 49 next month). So, I guess I am a C- student in the NFP department as well as the providential department. Lord have mercy on me! =)
I think ALL women should know about NFP, and use it—and I don’t mean necessarily for family planning.
It’s only sensible for a woman to know about how her body is working, and what’s normal for her, and what isn’t—especially such a sensitive function as her reproductive system.
I’m not a prophet or the son of a prophet, but it would not surprise me that women who practicer NFP will be able to catch abnormalities and anomalies in their cervical mucus before they become big problems like cancer.
I have a more complete statement of my take on the issue here:
http://philotheaonphire.blogspot.com/2012/04/on-clarifying-licit-use-of-nfp.html
Elizabeth- where are you getting the word extreme? I would look up what are serious reasons. It isn’t a super specific.
I think the choice of NFP or providential parenthood is up to each married couple. I do believe the Catechism says that we should be open to life unless there are serious reasons not to be and since I don’t know what is going on in another marriage/family, I keep myself out of it unless asked.
Simcha, as usual, you crack me up! Thanks for proving that faithful Catholics can actually be funny.
Elizabeth - you’re mistaken. The Church doesn’t specify “serious” or “extreme” reasons. Examples:
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If therefore there are reasonable grounds for spacing births, arising from the physical or psychological condition of husband or wife, or from external circumstances, the Church teaches that then marries people may take advantage of the natural cycles immanent in the reproductive system and use their marriage at precisely those times that are infertile, and in this way control birth… (Humanae Vitae, n. 16).
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For just reasons, spouses may wish to space the births of their children. It is their duty to make certain that their desire is not motivated by selfishness but is in conformity with the generosity appropriate to responsible parenthood…” (Catechism of the Catholic Church, n. 2368).
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Pope Pius XII says that serious motives, such as “medical, eugenic, economic, and social” reasons, can exempt a couple from the obligation of bearing children (“Address to the Italian Catholic Union of Midwives”).
Elizabeth, I would not equate “serious” with “extreme”. As far as needing serious reasons to postpone or avoid, serious is pretty subjective. Sure, there are reasons that would be pretty obviously frivolous (such as avoiding more children in order to be able to afford lavish vacations, etc). But people who have frivolous priorities are probably not very likely to be using NFP anyway, when it would be so much easier to just pop a pill. Other reasons that might be termed as serious by one couple might not be by another, but unless we’re in the situation, we really can’t know all the subtle variables that make it seem serious for one particular couple. My policy is to give people the benefit of the doubt that they’re prayerfully discerning these decisions.
Claire and Joanna:
My mistake. Apparently I misspoke and put my own spin on it. It certainly seems to be subjective.
Fr. William Gardner posted on another site regarding this issue some beautiful words: “The truly Catholic alternative to contraceptive drugs, devices, surgeries is babies! All those with a priestly heart should pray for greater generosity among married couples in welcoming souls to “come to the threshold of life.”
I think we need to pull up simcha’s post on why the churh doesn’t just make a list. Anyone have the link? :)
How wise and true. We so often make things more difficult that they have to be by putting all our eggs in one basket (or the other!). I love the idea of generosity and prudence (as your other article stated.)
Sometimes providentialism isn’t generosity to its fullest extent. My husband and I have used NFP our whole marriage (to conceive and postpone). Ironically though, after baby #2, I love the idea of just giving everything up to God and not planning. However, with a medical condition that needs to be treated after I finish nursing and before another pregnancy occurs as well as some deep seated marital issues that are finally being addressed in counseling, I must accept that “giving everything up to God” means also my ideal wish of the next baby coming when it may and using NFP at this time.
Elizabeth- I agree with the Fr’s words in some instances…but sometimes the Catholic response is also self-control! Just as contrary to our culture as embracing babies is.
I know JPII spoke on responsible parenthood. I would like to know how that fits into this?????
Margaret, agreed.
I was going to post it. Elizabeth- look at this: http://simchafisher.wordpress.com/2011/03/23/why-doesnt-the-church-just-make-a-list/
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There are some new technologies that will soon clarify much of the NFP guess work. My husband and I were talking about how much easier it will soon be to control fertility naturally and expediently. It sort of puts a small shiver down my spine, because if a quick, simple test reading told me: “you are on day 11”, I am sure I wouldn’t have at least HALF of my lovely “leap of faith” children. @Elizabeth, “come to the threshold of life” is simply beautiful. I am so grateful for my Catholic faith. I *never* would have had the courage to have my big family without it.
Oh, here’s where I put in my plug for “Ecological Breastfeeding”. Google it. Saved me from all those tedious charts. ;) And as for homeschooling (goodness, what an ambitious post!): When I was homeschooling my first,very super-perfect child (the one who is still “finding himself”) My dear friend (with such lovely, cultured European children, declared, “I could never homeschool my children.” When I asked her “why?” She breezily declared, “I wouldn’t have any students left, because I would kill them all.” Lol, I just love that woman.
Sometimes I think, that the streetwise Catholics have been subverted: me out on the street, looking for a wife, and somehow coming across a copy of NFP, I would be like—wow—I can nail this whole family thing down in a heartbeat, every time! Badda-bing, badda-ching! Me and my own Catholic nation, hell yeah! I am Pro-Life. ... receptive to family down to a science. That’s me. We need more streetsmarts.
My wife and I before we got married used to joke about having 9 kids—well, 10, since you need more than one pitcher, or someone to relieve the same guy from playing catcher every day…
She’s going to be thirty soon and we only have two. In the past we have done NFP for months at a time. Other times we have been what you call “providentialist”. And we have had two miscarriages.
I have never considered myself—and I know she hasn’t either—to have made a once-for-all decision about having kids.
But I will say this: whenever we have tried to avoid pregnancy, the longer we do it, the more depressed she gets, and I see a clear connection. I suppose that when we avoid pregnancy but still have sex, I, the male partner, say with my body language, whether I mean it with my heart or not, “I want your body for my own use, but I don’t regard you highly enough to entrust a child to your womb and care.” Again, I have never consciously thought this about my wife. But I think, when we have done NFP, my body language has said it.
And it wears on a woman.
@ly - that’s rather beautiful, and very perceptive of you. This is what I mean about the wide variety in personal relationships, though: what you describe is your own experience, and probably many other share it. But I can also easily imagine a man unconsciously saying to his wife, “I want your body so much, I don’t regard you highly enough to give you a break from the demands of pregnancy.” It all depends on the relationship and the circumstances. The Church is vague BECAUSE of this wide variety. It’s a feature, not a glitch!
Yes, I am in agreement with you.
There are many models, like the 20th century St. Gianna, or the medieval couples who mutually embraced celibacy.
Thanks for the response.
While we shouldn’t judge I think it is important to educate Catholics about how practicing NFP will bring them closer as a couple and to God. I remember learning in my premarital NFP class that the divorce rate amongst Catholics is 50% but the rate amongst Catholics who actively practice NFP is 2%. Interesting statistic is you ask me. That motivated my husband and I to feel very motivated about not using birth control in our marriage and I feel it has benefited our marriage overall.
Some of the comments, here, have shown me how engrained our contracetive oriented global culture—you must be subhuman—thinking has become engrained even in the minds of good Catholics, once upon a time baptised, only to embrace the natural man of Fundamentalist exposition. Am I so human, that even I cannot be regarded to have had God in my life, before The Catholic Church was known? Possibly, I am too ... wry.
You wrote that, “God designed women to be fertile every 30 days.” Not everyone is. How about those whose menstrual cycles run from 30 days to 3 months? All couples are not alike. Each has to make a decision with their conscience on what is right for them, their circumstances and where they are in life. These decisions cannot be made by old, celibate men trying to devine from"natural law” how others should act. From scripture, Jesus words, “woe to you scholars of the law who plce heavy burdens on the people without lifting a finger to help them.”
@Anon, women with crazy cycles like that often find good results with Creighton (NaPro Technology). Creighton is also (even primarily) excellent for diagnosing the underlying causes of fertility problems and other health abnormalities.
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Are people still making the “old celibate men” argument, REALLY? Some of the old celibate men I know have the power to forgive sins and the power to turn bread and wine into the body and blood of God. If I believe that God entrusts them with this power, then why not the power to interpret natural law?
Crazy cycles often appear to be rooted either in The Pill, or stress, or both stress, and The Pill. Although, under stress the cycle typically goes about 40 or so days, while others less stressed, every twenty days. Thirty days is a good average: last I read. If stress is a factor to a 40 day cycle, then it at least, for some, it has been restored to whatever cycle, or period, typified the woman. That’s the extent of my familiarity on the matter.
If you had wanted more clicks (and clacks) you should have added :“How do you feel about spanking as a method of education?”. OK, next time.
Keep up the good work.
Good post. NFP is a “tool” in our tool box that the Church says we may use (within guidelines) to build our families. We don’t have to, but we MAY. I think the wars start when some people usurp the Church’s authority and change the MAY to MAY NOT (on one side) or to MUST (on the other side).
One thing that has *astounded* me in the last eight months? For the first time in 25 years, I’m not breastfeeding or pregnant. I conceived at least two of my eight without any complete cycle, and thus went years without one. While I can be somewhat miserable, physically, during pregnancy, or dippy, because of a bit of sleep deprivation while nursing, *nothing* prepared me for the emotional peaks and valleys of a “normal” cycle. It’s been only eight months, but I have to warn my husband for a week every month! I keep on having to remind myself that a darker outlook can just be the hormones talking. Yuck! There is a special kind of serenity that comes with pregnancy and breastfeeding.
Please don’t forget that NFP to space pregnancies is a completely legit way to practice it. My cycle returned very quickly after each of my 3 pregnancies even though I was exclusively breastfeeding. We rely on NFP so that my body has appropriate time to heal.
I am young and expect 20 more years of fertility..I am in no rush to hurry up with the next baby…I really love the way our family is right now, today. I am not closed to more children, and I do not feel as though my husband uses my body while we practice NFP.
I believe in responsible parenthood, we discern when is good timing for a baby between(the 3 of us, husband, wife and God…not just God as in providentialism, and not just one spouse). The care of my children now, and throughout their lives plays a factor in this decision. I am not a good mother to them when I am pregnant. I am too tired to care for them properly.
What a fascinating discussion. I’m really enjoying the comments, too. Anna Lisa, I agree with you- that has been my experience as well. I have had very few cycles the past, oh, 10 years because of pregnancy and breastfeeding but when I do- WATCH OUT. It gets ugly. I truly do not know how women go through cycles month after month. I have been glad to not have to. I’ve got to agree somewhat with fatherof6, I do think Simcha was a bit hard on the providentialists and seemed to just leave it as an understanding that deliberate NFP practicing was the accepted norm. I look forward to any follow up posts, Simcha. ;)
This is a good article. I used to refer to our family as “providentialist,” but now if anyone asks if we use NFP (don’t know why they ask anyway!) I say, “we haven’t had a reason to.” Because, sure, we believe in providence, and in letting God space our kids (which he’s done a fine job with so far), but we’ve also watched our friends face very serious reasons to delay, and realized that in their shoes, we’d probably do the same. Meanwhile I keep hearing “inspiring” stories of Quiverfull Protestants having kids in circumstances when I wouldn’t let my husband within 20 feet of me. I want to scream, “God doesn’t insist you keep having sex when you’re that sick/poor/abused!” It’s like both sides—the contraceptive side and the Quiverfull side—cannot comprehend of the possibility of just NOT having sex. Which is always, always an option.
“Let many flowers bloom…” That’s what my father would say when people presented different opinions on a multifaceted discussion. I for my part, present my observations of what worked for *me* or helped my personal situation as I muddle through this life, hoping I can be of help. Yes, I believe that breastfeeding *on demand, through the night* works for a lot of women to space children. Do I believe it *doesn’t* function that way for some? Sure. I’m glad I stumbled upon relative success in this area, because *others* opened up this vista for me to consider. I’m not threatened by the experiences of others, I commiserate. This life can be pretty tough.
One of the characteristics, which I enjoyed: as a matter of having read about it, it is the aspect of abstinence, and communication, between man, and wife. Someone posted a link to their site. Making the claim, that they wished, that N.F.P. had been known in their lifetime, then went sterile, then read N.F.P. bashed opinions. A question was posed in the following manner: ” ... Ask yourself: ‘Can I picture our Blessed Mother teaching young Jewish maidens to ‘chart’ so as to avoid conceiving a child ... ?’ ... questions answer themselves into what a pandering ... hyper-sexualized culture this has really been ... “.
First, my reading on the matter is the following, when couples practice N.F.P., charting is often tasked to the man. Can you imagine: God completely avoided St. Joseph, with respect to the conception of his son. Yet, it was The Blessed Virgin Mary, whom broke the news to St. Joseph. Promptly, divorce was on the table, and rightly so.
Task the man with a chart! Being left-out is not fun, but look to J.M.J. to work-out that one. Ignorantly sheilding oneself against N.F.P., it positions a person into a fiegned sense of ignorance. The formation of conscience is to each Catholic, a very important, and essential, characteristic of faith, and its personal nature. I believe in miracles. The hand of God, it must not be misconstrued to be on auto-pilot, but against The Deist concept, it must be construed as a hand in each, of our own lives, on a daily basis. What, then, do we make of his works in our lives, through our friends, through our families, through the works of others, in our lives?
The word “Providentialist”, it is a new one to me. The characterization of it, to me: it is coming to mean a somewhat Deist approach to life, and in the most intimate of acts, which God so desires of Catholics, when they will teach, his teachings to whom, we may regard to be his children. The aspect of Deism, it reinforces to the neglect of N.F.P., it is God denied in our lives, that gives The Deist aspect to life. When we avoid those means: God has made available to us in our lives, then we deny God’s relationship to us in our lives.
I do not believe, I have jumped to far, and certainly, Providence will guide us out of the controversy—be there any at all—and into the way we as Catholics respectfully employ the knowledge we obtain through science, and other human endeavors, the application of our faith.
Does God play dice with our futures? Gambling is opposed in scripture. Still, statistics is credited to a Catholic monk: left with a game, which needed to end—the probability of whom would win, to be determined—we may see in N.F.P., a similarity; when will we have a child? Left to God, an angel would descend upon us, and confuse many men, that their future wife—slept with another man—would be divorced immediately.
No, I picture The Blessed Virgin Mary giving to St. Joseph, a chart, and having him teach young Jewish men to do the same.
@Anon: If you are having crazy cycles, the original Billings Method works well too. The Creighton Model is derived from the Billings Method, but there are important differences. If one doesn’t make sense for you, the other probably will.
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As for providentialism vs. NFP, there is no need for this debate. There is no moral obligation to have relations during the fertile period. All charting does is give you awareness of fertility, there is no rule that says you have to follow the rules. Because following the rules avoiding pregnancy is so difficult for couples of normal fertility, most people who use NFP aren’t going to be able to avoid UNLESS they have serious reason.
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I just find it hard to believe that there are that many couples who can actually abstain for month after month for unserious reasons.
Simcha- I love this!
Jim, you’ve got a good point there. I hadn’t thought of it that way…
I for one am very grateful for the newer technologies that help couples successfully postpone pregnancy through NFP. The Marquette method, for example, uses a ClearBlue Easy fertility monitor that has helped us immensely. I’m sure at one time (past me) I would have thought that this technology just a slippery slope to the “contraceptive mentality.” The present me no longer has a body that gives clear signals for what is going on, so I need all the help I can get. Thanks, Simcha, for another great post.
My big problem with this whole debate is that sometimes the providentialists and the “one-foot-in-the-grave reasons” crowd can be very judgmental toward those who do not have large families.
If you feel called to have a large family, good for you. I know many large that are quite happy. I also believe that people are a net gain to the world and, therefore, forcefully reject the idea that people should not have large families due to overpopulation concerns.
Still, not everyone is called to have large numbers of children. The last four Popes were from families of four children or fewer. If a couple marries at, say 25, they likely have a good 20 years of fertility. Most couples will need to manage that fertility. Other couples will struggle to have children, even though they desperately want them.
There is nothing holy about ignorance. There is nothing holy about incompetence. There is nothing holy about a lack of self-control. Yet some people take an “NFP works because it doesn’t” attitude, implying that their failure to use the method based on intent makes them better people. While people certainly do experience spiritual growth through an unplanned pregnancy and a new life, being “bad at NFP” is not necessarily a sign that one has a closer relationship with God. Indeed, it may be a sign that you have some problems your personal and spiritual life.
What on earth is a “one-foot-in-the-grave reason”??
Jim, did you just insult all the women in the world who choose to be mothers in their 40s?
Or maybe just all the incompetent ones who aren’t close to God because they don’t approach fertility like German engineering.
In your list of issues with two camps, you forgot one: pants. :-)
Anna-lisa, I think what Jim meant (feel free to correct me if I’m wrong) is that a lot of folks think NFP should only be used to avoid a pregnancy is the woman might die from complications of a pregnancy/labor/delivery. That only having “one foot in the grave” is a good enough reason to avoid a pregnancy. At least, that’s how I took it, and I have actually had people say that in all seriousness.
Jim, John Paul’s mother was sickly and died young. Benedict’s mother was old wehen she married and was lucky to have the three children she did have. I’m not sure they are the examples you were intending them to be.
Has anyone here ever tried reasonably well to avoid a pregnancy? To the point that you were amazed you became pregnant anyhow? I have a little girl whom I’m head over heels in love with (#8). My husband and I marvel over what a radiant blessing she is. I’m so glad I used NFP loosely, that I love my husband enough that extreme abstinence is not an option, and despite the fact that we wouldn’t have given prior consent, we left God to have the final say, by purposely leaving the door “ajar”. Oh, and if you asked me on my wedding day how many kids I would have liked to have, I’m pretty sure I would have said “3”. How’s that for planning? Kind of apropos to the title of the post. Thank you God, that I’m “bad at NFP”.
You could apply the ‘now-you vs. then-you’ concept to so much more. LGBTQ? I wonder how many of those coming out of the closet today will be thinking differently about it in 20+ years. Just a thought.
Great post! I agree with the previous commenter who mentioned it being hard to believe people would be willing to abstain month-after-month without a serious reason! It is frustrating as someone who does have a serious medical reason to space babies farther apart than I’d otherwise be willing and capable of to feel judged. Like I’m not as open to God’s will as they are(although if it appears that “God’s will” is to orphan my children, then yeah, I’m gonna resist that a little..) But NFP’ers shouldn’t judge the no FP’ers either-personally I think it is awesome that there are so many families that are actually lucky enough to be able to do that (and I wish we could too!)
“Indeed, it may be a sign that you have some problems your personal and spiritual life.”
Because having sex as a *married couple* (especially during the time of month when the woman most WANTS to have sex) means you surely must have problems in your personal or spiritual life…ugh.
My humble advice to those who have many children and many years of fertility ahead of them, lacking any serious reasons to avoid pregnancy… put your hand to the plow and don’t look back! And God bless you for your generosity!
St. Catherine of Siena, pray for us!
Awesome article. I have nothing to say except “thank you.”
I think part of the beauty of the Church’s teaching on this subject is a reinforcement in free will. All of us can choose to “plan” or choose to “trust” or do both or do neither—AND, we can change our mind tomorrow, if we want to. Regardless, the decision can only be made fully in the present moment, and the present moment is fleeting, always giving way to the future like waves continually crashing upon the shore. We may say “no” today because we had a good reason to say “no” today. Tomorrow, the reason may change, or we may change our perspective, or something else may happen that will give us a new outlook—and “today-me” cannot possibly know what “tomorrow-me” will choose—but I will always be able to choose freely.
Sarah is right about what I meant by “one-foot-in-the-grave” reasons: Specifically, that some people think that you should never use NFP unless you have one foot in the grave.
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My point is that no one should take doing something badly as being more virtuous than doing something well. And that being “bad at NFP” is not necessarily a virtue. If you do have serious reasons to avoid, but have trouble with self-control, that is NOT a virtue. If you do have serious reasons to avoid, but cannot be bothered with learning to use the method correctly, that is NOT a virtue.
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If, on the other hand, you feel called to have a large family, go for it. If you aren’t terribly concerned with avoiding even though you are not actively trying to achieve, that is fine as well. Just be honest about what you are doing.
“I’m so glad I used NFP loosely, that I love my husband enough that extreme abstinence is not an option, and despite the fact that we wouldn’t have given prior consent, we left God to have the final say, by purposely leaving the door “ajar”. Oh, and if you asked me on my wedding day how many kids I would have liked to have, I’m pretty sure I would have said “3”. How’s that for planning? Kind of apropos to the title of the post. Thank you God, that I’m “bad at NFP”.”
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Then say that you are using NFP loosely and you weren’t terribly concerned with avoiding. Knowingly using NFP loosely is not the same as being “bad at NFP”. It is just another way of using your fertility and there is nothing wrong with that.
Ah, quarterly fertility, such stuff as dreams are made of!
Yeah, quarterly fertility would be really nice. As someone who has only been able to get pregnant twice and has never been able to stay pregnant longer than 10 weeks, quarterly fertility would definitely be a step in the right direction.
@Mightymighty and others who commented on the providentialist “child-every 12-18 months” ... have you ever read Sheila kippley’s “Ecological Breastfeeding and Natural Child Spacing”? It’s a little older (and some of the cultural points in it can therefore seem datedd) but when I first read it I was like, “Yes! That!” My husband and I had discussed our thoughts on children and birth control pretty early on in our relationship, but before Simcha’s post I had never heard it called “providentialism.”
Anyway, some of the points that Sheila brings up are about how the body will naturally delay fertility when certain aspects are present… but they are pretty counter-cultural in America. Extended breastfeeding? Pacifying baby at the breast instead of with a pacifier? Nursing during the night instead of crying-it-out? It’s amazing the effect some of these actions can have on te hormones in your body.
So… I guess that makes current-me an ecological providentialist? Hehe.
Hannah- I certainly respect the Kippley’s and the encouragement to nurse on demand etc. However ecological breastfeeding does not work for everyone. I nurse on demand, throughout the night, don’t use pacis, etc. etc., but my fertility still returns at 2 months postpartum. It would be lovely for it to take longer, but it doesn’t. So a perfect example of how past-me could not have known whether or not I would be using NFP or just being open to whatever happening would be abetter choice. In my situation not using NFP would be harmful to me, my nursing babies and future babies. I was hoping breastfeeding would magically space my kids for me, but it turns out we need to use NFP quite extensively to space children to a manageable and healthy time.
So anyway, totally agree with the article. You can’t know what the future holds. Take it one day at a time! You don’t need to firmly put yourself in one camp or the other. I hope the infighting can stop so that we can stand firm together to promote life and fight the culture of death.
I did want to clarify some of my earlier remarks just to make sure that there is no misunderstanding.
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Some people say that they are “bad at NFP”, meaning that they don’t strictly follow the rules because they are generous, loving, and open to life. This is a good and virtuous thing. But these couples are not really “bad at NFP”, since the methods can be used either to achieve or avoid and the couple presumably knows what may happen when they come together on a specific date or accepts the responsibility of not knowing.
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Other people are truly “bad at NFP”. They do have serious reasons to avoid, but have trouble following through on it. Some understand the method, but have trouble with self-control. Other couples struggle with understanding and applying the methods. Still others have trouble discerning when they have serious reasons to avoid. Telling a couple that is struggling with self-control or does not understand a particular method that “maybe God is calling you to have another baby” or praising behavior that is not at its core virtuous is not what these couples need.
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The problem is when people assume that everyone who is struggling with NFP is in the first group and not the last, or worse, assume that those who are struggling really don’t have serious reasons and must be guilty of a “contraceptive mentality”. The reality is that healthy couples are designed to make babies and that very few couples can practice NFP without serious reasons for very long.
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Related to this is why I hate the term “Natural Family Planning”. It isn’t natural and it isn’t “family planning”. Charting temps and mucus (especially temps) is far from natural, and, given the significant number of “oh, what the heck” babies that NFP couples tend to have, it isn’t very good family planning. Furthermore, “family planning” is a euphemism for contraception, and NFP is not contraception. Instead, it is “fertility awareness”. Charting makes the couple aware of their fertility, and they can make decisions on that as they see fit. A couple can decide what rules to follow or not to follow any rules, but being unaware of your fertility is not a virtue in itself.
I’m told Mother Mary wants all her children to practice Chasity;and if
one is a sibling of hers then why not point that out without labels.In fact all of us have her for a mother.
We started our marriage in our late 30’s - hoping and praying for a large family (like the one I came from)...providentialists, I guess. Then after 2 miscarriages, we used charting to know when I should begin medications to help me sustain pregnancy. After losing 5 babies in 4 miscarriages, we realized that I could achieve pregnancy easily, BUT I had a condition that would cause every pregnancy to end in miscarriage between 12 and 16 weeks. So, we turned to adoption, and I began using NFP because I didn’t want to continue having miscarriages. Not just because of the affect miscarriages were having on my physical and our emotional health, but also because when we were in the adoption process, a pregnancy would disrupt our adoption for the length of the pregnancy. And, once the adoption was complete, I needed to be able to care for my children without having miscarriages every year as I had when I was “providentialist”. After 5 years of NFP, I received a breast cancer diagnosis. During my treatment, cycles were not discernible and a pregnancy would disrupt treatment, jeopardizing my life and my ability to raise my children. Medical advice was to use barrier methods. I thought that perhaps our situation excepted us from the Catholic rule against barrier methods, but after consulting with a priest learned that it did not. So, we chose abstinence. Then, as part of my treatment for breast cancer I had a hysterectomy/oophorectomy. Now, I’m in menopause ten years earlier than I would have been naturally and taking anti-estrogen therapy with debilitating side effects. During every stage, there was judgement passed on me by other Catholics from both camps. It seems that while I was a Providentialist before miscarriages and an NFPer to prevent more miscarriages - I just didn’t have enough children to be accepted in either club. Some people even think I got breast cancer from using the pill, when the truth is that one has never crossed my lips. I disclose my story to say that I was judged by Catholics in both camps and it was hurtful and damaging. This debate is irrelevant to me personally now, but I have lots of respect for both camps…because they are not contracepting and they are trying to discern God’s will for them. I think Simcha is correct that life will change and you never know which camp you’ll be in when it does.
Has anyone ever heard of couples using NFP to avoid pregnancy due to severe mental illness or depression? What if the mother suffers bouts of depression and is not able to properly care for children?
How does the Church address this? Is this considered a grave matter? I’ve never seen mental illness address in these types of discussions.
Any thoughts?
Kate, I’m sure those are all valid reasons for using NFP to indefinitely avoid or postpone a pregnancy. The Church doesn’t get specific. It leaves it up to the couple to prayerfully discern what constitutes a serious reason. Those certainly seem to qualify.
Let many flowers bloom.
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So many voices, so many paths,so many crosses, so many graces.
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Today at mass, while my fourth child was being confirmed, Bishop Curry spoke about the beauty of God’s providence and forgiveness. I thought of that parable when Jesus describes two men in the temple, one who is so sure he has everything about life figured out, and the other who can barely lift his head up, as he realizes, in the presence of God that he is still so sorely lacking. How comforting this is.
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As I look back on my life of motherhood, I realize that there were so many times when I lacked my current maturity and wisdom. One thing is for sure, my youth was marked by extravagant *hope*—perhaps to a fault. My current self would not have been able to conceive and fall in love with a new child as many times as I did. Present me would have fretted and worried so much more, given all the difficulties I’ve had to endure over the years.
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One thing is for sure. I’m glad “older me”, didn’t have to make decisions for “younger” me. It wouldn’t have been as easy for my husband and I to rush headlong into that exquisite self annihilation which is parenthood. Fortunes are fleeting—but every one of our children, conceived sometimes at questionable times, are worth every obstacle we labored under to bring to “the threshold of life”. Thanks be to God, that with His grace, most of the obstacles have been surmountable.
Zelda: I’m so sorry for those false judgments you had to endure during your struggles with miscarriages.
Anna Lisa: congratulations on your child’s confirmation!
@Kate -
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yes, the mental health of the mother must be taken into consideration - perhaps first and foremost. She is the one, after all, who does all of the ‘hard work’ of the pregnancy and at least half of the work of parenting afterwards! The health of the mother, often touted out by the pro-aborts, is even more important to the Church.
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finding a good counselor when struggling w/ depression is important and, if I can, I recommend - www.exceptionalmarriages.com
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Well written! As an NFP teacher and speaker, we see all attitudes. I have come to the conclusion that the divide between couples who use NFP and those who choose providentialism is as big as the divide between NFP users and those who choose contraception. Maybe even bigger. Many still feel that NFP is wrong and those who use it aren’t really open to life. I once saw a comment on Faith and Family that referred to providentialists as REALLY being open to God. That type of attitude hurts the church and it’s teachings so much and is really a bad witness to the beauty of our faith. We even had a priest not ask us to speak at a pre-cana that we had gone to for years because he didn’t want us to speak about NFP.
One more thought. As others mentioned, NFP gets a bad rap as only being used to postpone a pregnancy. We, like many others, use it to monitor my health and also to conceive. My husband says that he’d like to change the name to Theology of the Body Lived because that is what it really is.
Kate, here is the best paper I’ve seen that deals with this topic. I know the author and not only is he a faithful Catholic,but he has lived this out. His wife has had similar struggles and this writing really deals with this topic well. http://totustuus.com/prolife.htm
hugs for ZELDA
here’s a short blog post for you: http://remnantofremnant.blogspot.com/2012/03/family-size-does-not-equal-birth.html
Thank you Jeanine, Rachel and Claire for your responses on motherhood and depression.
I especially appreciate the websites/articles you mention. I’ll look into them. I’ve been blessed with a very compassionate NFP coach who works through these issues with me.
It’s very encouraging to see other Catholic women/couples who are willing to talk about these issues and the Church’s efforts to work with women and families in today’s society. :)
@priest’s wife, your blog is lovely and thoughtful. @Claire, thank you! Adoptive mothers are heroes, it takes guts to go that route. I’m sometimes chagrined when I perceive my backward stumbling into parenthood. Just when I think I’m kind of good at it, I get thrown a new curve ball…(kids in their 20’s whom have begun to intellectually examine said motherhood… “When I was 12, you really shouldn’t have…”) @Zelda, your struggle left me speechless with admiration. Thank you. @Kate, it sounds like you are really on the right track. I also appreciate all of the insights and “war stories” of those who deal with obstacles, from a different angle than mine—and the grace which helps us quietly overcome.
@Zelda Thank you for sharing your story! My heart goes out to you and your spouse for the suffering you have borne.
We shouldn’t judge each other, who are all just trying to live out God’s will the best we can, and we shouldn’t judge ourselves too harshly, so long as we are trying to live out God’s will one day at a time.
@Kaneda I hope and pray that that is the case. You’re right, the secular world encourages us to label ourselves, which is very limiting and closes us off to His working in our lives. I pray that people who today identify as LGBT (and all of us) will keep our hearts and our minds open, so that God may work through us as He wills.
Great post, Simcha! I couldn’t agree with you more, then again, I have ten kids. But, here is my standard retort to the family planning question. Our youngest is 15, so when we were “you” we were not only “irresponsible”, financially, but environmentally. Anyway when someone with a “Save the whales” / pro choice bumper sticker would ask what family planning method we used…I’d always answer, “Usually any decent Cabernet will do.” Shuts em up every time…well after the “tsk”
What is “providentialism?” Doesn’t that just mean “being married?” When a couple is married they sometimes have children. In fact, procreation is the primary end of marriage, as many popes have stated. Whey is there now some special label that makes them look likes freaks?
Excellent points! I’ve been all over this issue myself. Took NFP as an engaged couple over 26 years ago and immediately became an instructor (for 15 of those years). I wanted to be ‘in control’, but later found wisdom in leaving the planning to God. HOWEVER, I have had serious health issues that have required the need to use NFP.
In short, you never know another person’s situation (including, for example, why they have only 1 or 2 children). Numerous issues: early hysterectomy, previous abortions, endometriosis, mental health issues, medicines that should not be taken in pregnancy, etc.
We homeschool as well. Again, as the author wrote, situations are all different. And, my kids have humbled me enough that I do not ‘brag’ about homeschooling. It seems ‘other’s’ kids sometimes seem to be turning out better than mine! BUT, I’m praying that through thick and thin, my kids turn out to be Godly adults who know their Faith. That’s all I can hope (& pray) for. I’ll leave the rest to God.
Did I miss something in the post? I thought this was about not judging and the discussion now seems to be all about judging. LOL. What a world!
As an engaged woman who currently tears up at articles about how NFP can suck, and who stresses about how many kids will make her a good Catholic but not destroy her sanity, I thank you for this.
The issue I have with some of these comments is that NFP users seem to think that those who don’t use it are having some kind of 24/7 animal sex party, living without self control, while the NFP users are praying their way through another fertile period. I’m sure that those who don’t use NFP are still pretty familiar with self-control. If you use NFP good for you. You’ve done the discerning and are in line with Church teaching. If you don’t—good for you, too. You’ve also done some discerning and are living in line with Church teaching. NFP is not the 8th sacrament. The Church existed for almost 2000 years before anyone ever heard of NFP. Can’t we just assume the best about one another in charity?
Really, Helen? That’s my favorite part! LOL.
I mean, seriously - if you stopped to think about it for a minute, who really thinks that parents of 8 children are having a 24/7 sex party? I mean, does anyone listen to themselves.
There really should be more humor in these discussions. The topic is so, uh, fertile!
Mom of two—Well, obviously they’re not, right? But I kept seeing comments about self control, as if it were the exclusive domain of NFP users. Honestly, I have 5 kids and there’s almost always one wandering into my room. We have self control too! I agree about there needing to be more humor. But even more than that—it’s not my business whether you use NFP or not, whether you have 10 kids or two. For cryin’ out loud, can’t we all just get along:)
@Anon - for irregular cycles, temperatures with symptothermal {STM} methods will usually show you when there has been an ovulation + about 2 weeks will follow that is surely an infertile time. This is an advantage over creighton, marquette and billings {“Mucus-only} methods which some find confusing/subjective/confusing with sminal residue…Three days or more of temperature rise is the only sure sign that ovulation has occurred + cross check with mucus dry-up is better….‘dry’ or absence of mucus can occur with stress, nutrition changes + illness; hence, the irregularity and ‘surprise pregnancy” has been known to occur - not to BASH mucus-only at all but if you need to record more data, temps do help
—Statistically, STM has been shown to have a higher effectiveness rate (see nfpandmore.org for links and studies} Not that i want to be pushing for “no children” but as a nurse, NFP teacher, and NFP user for over 20 years, the cross-check of two or more signs ( you can check crvix,too) is helpful.
On these websites they never have anyone describe the horrible pain when you follow all the rules and the method fails. NFP instructors need to be up front about how devastating a crisis pregnancy can me. 2 years later i still regret my choice to use Nfp. Everyone says having a child in a crisis pregnancy situation will get better but 2confronting years later there is no joy in having her…just the feeling of exhaustion, abandonment by the catholic church for not having feelings for the baby. Most of all NFP has taught me to hate my body, and i know now after ralking with experts, it does not work for everyone. Ladies, thank God if NFP works for your body. Just rememerwhen you promote it, it can cause untold pain.
ANNA:I’m so sorry for your disturbing situation; I hope someone was able to look at your charts + help you see what may have happened: symptothermal especially; there is always MORE that can be done with NFP - more signs to look at + use; what method were you using + was your husband encouraged to help you discern the fertile times? your NFP instructor should be there to help you understand that yes, sometimes the method fails but usually not if properly instructed + motivated. You sound especially depressed - have you had your thyroid hormones checked for the exhaustion + who is helping you? Any new mom needs family and friends to support - maybe La Leche League for friends? the Church should not “abandon” you - maybe there is a deacon there who is a licensed counselor or a moms group; maybe anti-depressants or just walking and omega-3’s can help - please see someone / have a priest annoint you, too ; it is medicine for your soul and be eating right
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