I love it. Finally some real leadership in ‘Catholic’ Colleges. Maybe soon Catholics can start feeling safe sending their kids to Catholic Colleges again. I know so many who said they sent their kids to ‘Catholic’ colleges like Notre Dame that came back Athiests. What is the point of having a ‘Catholic’ college if it teaches against ‘Catholic’ teachings. Now to remove the ‘Catholic’ faculty members who have a problem teaching ‘Catholic’ teachings. If they want to teach anti-God teachings, go to work for a Protestant college. Catholic beliefs come from God, not college faculty.

May President Lyons continue to have the clarity of wisdom; and to divert the RELATIVISM that is pervasive in academia and which attempts to erode Catholic tenets from the minds of the innocent or lukewarm whom they are commissioned to teach the TRUTH.

A train runs along smoothly as long as it stays on the tracks - which are reliable - and the driver obeys the signals and follows the schedule.

As a non-Catholic, I am heartened when Lyons and other Catholic leaders all the way up to Pope Benedict are bold in holding Catholics accountable to the faith they profess.  The very heart of Catholicism is structured around and sustained by its defense of the human being at all stages of life.  Those who build their careers on denouncing this defense of life are most significantly stepping out of the fold of Catholicism.  It is one thing to embrace pro-abortion (choice?) views, but it is quite another to define those views as a branch of the Catholic Church.  It would be more honest for such people to develop a new church that is defined by their willingness to sacrifice human beings for the sake of convenience…name your church…and preach your beliefs.  But in doing so, they would lose their platform.  They benefit much by holding onto the skirt of the Catholic Church whilst dismissing her beliefs.  This is what modern journalists love…a Catholic who wants to dismantle Catholic faith.  Academic freedom is about debating ideas, and the Catholic Church is bold and free in its public debate on all issues…most especially issues of life and death.  Let visiting educators come and debate the issue.  But do not let the visitors be disingenuous in pretending that their rejection of pro-life views are consistent with being Catholic.  That is not only spiritually dishonest, it is academically dishonest.  As a Catholic and educational leader, Lyons has an obligation to draw these distinctions for her academic community.  Good for her!

Thank God for a President of a college and a Board of Trustee’s for standing up for the Catholic Faith.

There is no honor in inviting and hearing someone put down our faith. There is no value in learning unless what we learn upholds what we know
is true.

Why won’t Bishop Brom’s take a stand?  Either he supports her or he doesn’t.  If he doesn’t know the facts, he needs to learn them and be prepared to render an opinion.  He is the leader of the local Church.  It is his duty to lead and not hide behind ignorance.

First & foremost, a Catholic University needs to stand behind the Authoritative teachings of the Seat of Peter & the Magesterium, as reflected in Canon Law & The Catechism.  BRAVO, PRESIDENT LYONS!

Newsflash:

The Catholic Church has lost all control over ‘its’ supposed universities a long time ago, and unfortunately, that horse ain’t going back into the barn.

Congratulations to Ms. Lyons for standing up for Catholic doctrine and values

Good for President Lyons. As the parent of two college students, one of whom attends a Catholic university but proudly self-identifies as an atheist, I know these young people are in need of strong moral leadership. Most schools instead promote extreme relativism and, frankly, an anti-magisterium mentality. President Lyons is standing up for what is right.  It’s never easy.

I find it dismaying that the site Toreros stand with Beattie only allows “likes”.  Another case of speaking to ones own cheering section.  The Mandatum should be used as it was intended.  While it is the role of theologians to push the limits, they have never been the “parallel Magisterium” that they have at times attemted to claim.  Some of these “Catholic theologians” could probably call themselves a “garage door” for all I care.  They won’t be very effective at being that.  Until they adhere to the mandatum, they are neither the garage door nor Catholic.  What I was taught under the heading of “Academic Freedom” at a catholic college (1967-1971) took me years to work past.  We are a short time past the feast of “Christ the King”.  As our Lord and Savior, the very least we owe him is our obedience to Him.  Everyone should find and read the Didache.  They will see that what is being taught by the Magisterium is NOT NEW.

Hurray for President Lyons!!!

You’re either Catholic and believe its morals, values and teaching or not. Nice to see the head of a Catholic University stand up for her faith.

And we should ALL pray for President Lyons.  She will be persecuted by her faculty members for this.  Even if the vast majority of them agree with her, it only takes a handful to make her life absolutely miserable.  I applaud her decision in this matter and pray that much good will come from it!

It seems to me that the University is giving freedom of speech a slap in the face (along with Tina Bettie). Rule upon rule upon rule will not change the fact that there are opinions and realities that do not conform to the Vatican. Once can issue proclaimation after another to the faithful which will be heard by individuals who must consider each of them carefully. Today, the Church alienates thousands of Her members by condemning actions that Jesus certainly did not condemn in his teachings and that ‘Thinking Catholics” pray about in an open and respectful manner.

The Church is forcing women “underground” when it comes to abortion, access to birth control medication, and a listening and concerned ear. When a priest defends a non-Rome approved action, he is removed from the priesthood (consider a 92 year old priest among them).

My parishioners won’t tell our presiding bishop that I should not be a priest. I used to believe the battle for women’s ordination in the Episcopal Church was awful. That battle is nothing in comparison to threats of excommunication and the public humiliation the Church visits on the new prist and those who were present at her ordination.

The Church is headed for disaster….and it won’t be due to an abortion or a woman’s ordination. It will be grounded in the lack of reason, the loss of hearing and concern, and not asking “what would Jesus do” and following the answer to that question.

Good to see Lyons showing some backbone, but is it too late?  As president of the Association of Catholic Universities, she was a big proponent of the Land O’ Lakes approach (independence, “academic freedom”) and under her leadership, USD still has not implemented Ex Corde Ecclesia. 

Unfortunately, most of our Catholic Universities (including USD) are cesspools of dissent and anti-Magisterial teaching. There is very little the administration can do about it, given the restrictions of the tenure system and the prospect of facing open rebellion from the faculty, as shown in the “no confidence” vote she received for taking this minor step.

I went through a college search with my daughter recently (looking at USD, Santa Clara, Loyola Marymount, among others).  It is truly a shame when you conclude you are better off sending your children to a secular state school than to one of these institutions.  It is to the point where, other than a very few schools, I would only send my kid there with firm instructions to stay away from the theology department, where they would absolutely be indoctrinated with dissenting theology.

I really doubt these schools can be reformed.

Why not formally, and clearly, state to Ms. Beattie where they stand on the issues, making clear to her that these are Absolutes; and, because of their care for her, and her sensitivities, they must withdraw the invitation.

These are immutable truths!  What’s all the pussyfooting about?  Why allow these heretics to always put those with established beliefs on the defensive?

I hope President Mary Lyons sticks to her decision. Now is not a time to be wishy washy and succumb to the pressure of popular culture. Stand your ground against the tidal wave of rubbish.

“Not all Catholics share their hierarchy’s stated views…”

Well then, why stay in the Church? There are other denominations that line up much more closely with their views. This was discussed on an Anglican message board recently and the consensus was that these people are emotionally retarded souls who get theri jollies protesting against “The MAN” and showing their butts to authority. They can’t do that in a denomination that has already taken the stand against Christianity.

President Lyons’ leadership in the midst of the dank, mustiness of the aging academic hippies at USD is a breath of fresh air blowing through Camino Hall, and a sign of hope for the future of my dear Alma Mater.

I see that we have a woman religious commenting how by standing up for Catholic truth, there will be a disaster. I don’t know but it sure seems that the last 50 years of ‘free thinking’ and ‘relativism’ from the Catholic Universities has been a true disaster. I go to mass and see a sea of Gray, no young people to be found. Young people love to rebel, but they love structure, an island they can be sure of after swimming with the sharks. When I go to more ‘traditional’ parishes with strong Catholic identity, I see many more young Catholics then I do in these ‘modernist’ parishes. The only seminaries and religious orders that are growing are the more traditional strong Catholic types. The same way with Colleges. When will the women religious who are products of the 60s, 70s, and 80s learn that relativism and modernism in the Church only leads to failure and a lack of Gods blessing. All we have to look to is the Episcopal and Methodist churches to see what this type of thinking produces, empty churches.

I am VERY happy to hear this, as I have a daughter who is applying to USD and would not be willing to send her there (and pay steep tuition) if president Lyons had taken the easy route and merely looked the other way.
Stay strong!  We parents MUST take a more active role in finding out what’s being taught inside the classrooms at colleges & universities.

Before things get out of hand, this is the same school in which the USD School of Education recently offered a course entitled: “LGBTQ: Using Adolescent and Children’s Literature to Explore LGBTQ Issues,” had a drag queen contest, etc.
So much for Catholic identity…

Here Here for Chey’s post, why do these folks stay in the Catholic church only to tear it down. If they believe just like Episcopal church, why not join it. Not one of them has given me an answer to this. It is well known that any kingdom divided will fall. There are those that think that we can save these folks if they stay in, yet while ‘in’ these modernist Catholics destroy the faith of thousands. I know. I was one of those thousands whose faith was destroyed until some REAL Catholics talked to me and I realized that there are a few real Catholics left, that the Catholic Church does stand for something, and it is directed by God.

Bishop Robert Brom of San Diego said that he could not comment on the specifics of the case….

And therein lies the problem with the Catholic Church in the United States. We have very few if any Bishops who will stand up for the Faith.

@Claudia Windal OSF: It is Catholics like you who ought to consider why it is you are not a Protestant. Your anti-authority lifestyle is getting old.  Most faithful Catholics barely pay your likes any attention these days.

My congratulations to Ms. Lyons for standing up for Catholic doctrine and values.  I hope it is not too late to reform our Catholic Universities so that they become real ‘Catholic’ Universities. Ms. Lyons has taken a giant step in that direction.  I hope she has the courage and support to continue.

I am gratified to read this article about someone who has the moral clarity to defy the nonsense of secularist propaganda. Don’e we have enough of it in the national media. The purpose of a catholic education is to foremost delineate those doctrine that make up our religious basics.I will always feel blessed to have had a catholic education at the university level, albeit 50 years ago. It has stood me well. We are all responsible for our own souls, and it is the catholic moral responsibility to support students for a lifelong journey toward their own eternal salvation.

I hope the Holy Father goes after Catholics universities and schools next like he did Catholic charities.  God keep him to do all the reforms our church needs.

THANK YOU,President Lyons for taking the TRUE stand of many of us Catholics that want to protect and defend our Faith, our Church and our Beliefs.
My hats off to you ! ! ! ! ! !

Thanks be to God!  What a refreshing article…a small glimmer of light amid the darkness of daily reports of “catholics” embracing/advocating the fashionable sins of our day.  Save our lost and apostate generation merciful Jesus!

Yes I praise President. Lyons for her stand. But we who are sending our children to colleges like hers must remember that our children are still being taught by those who voted a no confidence in Ms. Lyons. I still wouldn’t feel safe with my child’s everlasting life with ‘teachers’ and ‘guides’ like those at USD. There are plenty of fine Catholic Colleges recommended in by the Newman Guide.

Let us all pray for our Catholic Universities, for President Lyons, and for her faculty, that they come to realize the importance of following and teaching in a way true to the Catholic Church. God Bless us all in these trying times.

HOORAY for President Lyons!  Finally, a Catholic college president who will stand for the teachings of the Church - in the fullness of their truth and beauty.  Granted, USD still has a long way to go to clean up their act and become an authentically Catholic campus.  I have a young friend there who cringes at the thought of their “theology” classes. Don, you must know of and use the Cardinal Newman Society to find a truly Catholic college - like my son did.  They are all over the nation.  Elizabeth, you better check out USD theology courses FIRST - my young friend, a 4th year student there, cannot recommend USD for families seeking an authentic Catholic education.

I don’t think anyone could have said it better than ‘Joyce Loehner’: I am gratified to read this article about someone who has the moral clarity to defy the nonsense of secularist propaganda. Don’e we have enough of it in the national media. The purpose of a catholic education is to foremost delineate those doctrine that make up our religious basics.I will always feel blessed to have had a catholic education at the university level, albeit 50 years ago. It has stood me well. We are all responsible for our own souls, and it is the catholic moral responsibility to support students for a lifelong journey toward their own eternal salvation.

When I read most of the posts here I can thank God for all the Catholic like you all that stay faithful to God and his Churches teaches. The media covers those Catholics who would destroy the Church if they could so much, I find reading your posts a true blessing. Like Stephen I say ‘Save our lost and apostate generation merciful Jesus!’

Bravo Lyons!

Tired of hearing how this or that group “undermines” this or that teaching. If our beliefs, our faith, our principles are so weak that they can be “undermined” by dissenting opinions and honest intellectual debate then perhaps our beliefs, our faith, our principles weren’t that strong to begin with.

The action by President Lyons appears to fly in the face of the mission statement and pronouncement of the University as an academic institution. The web sites announces…“Academic excellence thrives in communities that welcome diverse viewpoints and life experiences.” - Provost Julie H. Sullivan, PhD. The mission statement provides “The University possesses that institutional autonomy and integrity necessary to uphold the highest standards of intellectual inquiry and academic freedom.” These pronouncements stand in direct contrast to the exclusion of a “visiting fellow”  British Catholic theologian Tina Beattie,  who disagrees with the Church’s teachings. They cannot be reconciled. This explains the faculty’s vote of no confidence.

Thank God President Lyons has the courage of her convictions!

Let’s not throw Bishop Brom overboard so quickly. He supports President Lyons in this matter. That he won’t comment on “specifics” only means that he’s not going to debate the circumstances. What that amounts to is that he is going to let President Lyons carry the ball. And why not? She’s doing fine.

Claudia, could you and your cohort on the fringe please, please understand once and for all that “freedom of speech” is a civil right that can be claimed against our government and has nothing at all to do with private institutions? Schools (supposedly) adhere to “academic freedom” which is not the same as free speech. It is a freedom of inquiry. In a Catholic school, that inquiry is free within the very wide but definite bounds of the body of doctrinal and moral truths enunciated by the magisterium. That there are such bounds is not an offense against “free speech.” And as Bishop Brom points out, it is not an offense against an academic freedom that pursues truth.

@Deacon Ed Peitler, Claudia Windal is not a Catholic, she is an episcopalian priest that goes on Catholic websites to denounce the Roman Catholic Church at every opportunity.  She is not a faithful catholic and is misrepresenting herself by not identifying herself as an episcopalian.

Good for President Lyon.  It is not dissent that marks an academic institution but one that teaches consistent with the Catholic Faith and conducts disscussions regarding issues that theologicans seem want to discuss within the context of Catholic Teachings.  To suggest that catholics legitimately “disagree” with Catholic Teachings is in conflict with the role of the theologian’s mission to teach students on the Catholic Faith.  This Catholic version of PC nonesense has badly undermined the mission of the Church and those theologians guilty of these transgressions under the excuse of “academic freedom” are disengenuous and should be dismissed from the university.  They are free to embrace the religion of their choice but not free to indoctrinate students in psuedo Catholicism.

When I was a child, Catholic universities were viewed as second-rate because they were afraid to expose their students to ideas outside of their narrow orthodox scope.  Their graduates were likewise viewed as second-rate because their exposure to ideas was so limited.  Is the faith of young Catholics now so weak that exposure to divergent points of view will destroy that faith?  Or are Catholic universities so afraid that they are unable to consider a variety of sources of truth?  It’s sad that USD students are considered too immature or intellectually flacid to make up their own minds.

Good to know there is someone who is willing & had the backbone to challenge the liberal, cafeteria Catholics.  Time for Catholic universities to be CATHOLIC!!!!

Claudia Windal writes “What would Jesus do?”  First of all, He’d tell the truth, since He is “the Way, the Truth, and the Life.”  The Truth, however, is not what everyone wants to hear. What’s true is not necessarily what"s popular. Lyons stood up for the Truth, and her faculty should be ashamed for failing to support her. It’s pseudo-intellectual claptrap such as this contrived issue of “academic freedom” which makes academia the credentialing body of politically correct and government authorized social agendas. This faculty needs to start from the beginning and ask itself why it exists as a teaching body.If a Catholic University cannot stand up for fundamental truths, it needs to rethink its mission.

Scratch Tina Beattie from the list of Catholics!  Simply put, if you don’t believe in what the Catholic Church teaches, you are NOT Catholic!! God bless you and send you on your way, Tina!  As for President Lyons, a university president with a backbone and willingness to stand for her beliefs.  As for the faculty, well, you are Catholic or you are NOT.  We know now the “NOTs”—take a hike!

Fully informed consciences? A classic oxymoron when used by the fellow traveling academic dissidents bent on rebellion rather than acceptance of a truly informed conscience.

Catholic universities need to first teach the beauty of Catholic teaching. After graduation there is little Equal Opportunity. Suggest readings and innovative courses on Catholic Thinkers: Maritain,Gilson,Nouwen,St.Thomas,Saint Francis etc. The Spiritual Cliff has precipitated the Financial Cliff.

Mary Lyons, you go girl! Congradulations for your strength and fidelity.

Relativism was unwittingly promoted by the misinterpretations of Vatican II documents.  Now we have the fruits of misapplications of misinterpre-
tations, and it’s encapsulated in the free swinging term, SPIRIT OF VATICAN COUNCIL II.  To some Catholics their freedom of conscience permits them to challenge the Magisterium. There needs to be a clarification of Vatican II. To my mind, Vatican II, as Tyler did, tipped the canoe, with all of the misinterpretations, and, above all, the misapplications of those misinterpretations!  Change for the sake of change became the order of that day.

Now thank we all Vatican II for this mess we are allowing in the church. Freedom of conscience permits one to disagree with the magisterium of the teaching church, does it?  Relativism came out of that council whether or not we like to admit it.

Let’s be real.  This is a very minor step, and look at the wailing and gnashing of teeth that it generated from the faculty.  All one needs to do is get on the USD website and review the bios of its faculty members, particularly in the theology department, and you will easily conclude that the school is irredeemable unless many, many professors can be forced out. That’s just not going to happen given the restrictions of the tenure system. The only real solution is to wait for them to retire or die off; or else just stop letting them teach students even though they remain on the faculty. Also, I am not sure Dr. Lyons is a hero here.  We don’t know the full story, but it appears the reason Beattie’s position was withdrawn had more to do with pressure being applied by major donors than with her personal convictions. When she announces that USD will fully implement Ex Corde Ecclesiae and insist on the mandatum, there will be reason to celebrate.  But that is unlikely to ever happen.  She has historically been a proponent of the opposite view - that “academic freedom” takes precedence over the MagisteriThese all you have to do is read the speech she gave as president of the Association od Catholic Universities a few years ago - a full endorsement of one view over the other. Maybe her worldview has radically changed since then? I don’t know.

The battle for the souls of young people is being fought in entertainment and academia.  We are losing in both theaters. I am not sure what we can do about the entertainment industry but we should at least own our Catholic universities. Unfortunately, with a few exceptions, they are rotten to the core. It is a given that the humanities and social sciences are faculties are dominated by non-Catholics and that courses in those areas are rarely taught with a Catholic worldview.  The problem in the theology departments is compounded because the faculties, are, for the most part, dominated by theologians who have built their careers around dissent from Church teaching. Don’t kid yourself, they view it as their mission in life to indoctrinate as many young people as possible with their own views of what the Church could or should be. This is extremely dangerous for most young people, who arrive at college without a firm grounding in the faith to begin with.  The result is that they leave their Catholic university after 4 or 5 years having been indoctrinated in the theology of dissent without ever having been given a full and fair presentation of the Church’s true teachings.

Our Catholic universities should be bastions against the secular, relativist, immoral worldview promoted in non-Catholic universities.  This is probably what most parents think they are getting when they fork over $200,000 plus for a Catholic university education.  Instead, unless they are very careful, they get all the moral relativism plus a warped, dissenting theology.

Claudia Windal,

Your views are completely off base and misleading. The arguments being made for women’s ordination and other issues are completely political. They have no basis in theology or even sound reason. Nobody is silencing anybody, but asking that they not politiicize everything under the sun.

And as someone said, if you are not Catholic, then I do not see how this concerns you. The diversity dictators need to accept difference. Practise what you preach.

The issue is that she was not told that she cannot speak, but that she cannot present her views as theology, because they are simply political. Free speech is different from pushing political views and calling them theology.

As a young person, being told in public school that the Catholic Church is wrong on some core teachings could be written off as a Protestant assault on my faith. But when I was told that the Catholic Church is wrong on some core teachings by my priests, I learned that God does not direct his church and thus left to find which religion God does direct. It took me 30 years to learn that the Catholic Church is directed by God and is NOT wrong on some core teachings because it is directed by Holy Spirit.

My nephew went to the University of Colorado in Boulder, one of the most liberal universities around. He came out stronger because of it. He knew who the ‘enemy’ was and learned how to defend his faith. He is a strong Catholic now, but I wonder how different things would be if he had to defend his faith to his ‘Catholic’ professors at a Catholic University. I can guarantee you, he would not be a strong Catholic today.

Maybe it would be better if these ‘Catholic’ universities loose their ‘Catholic’ status and be known as secular. At least then our children would know who the enemy is and know how to defend their faith. Then if a parent wanted to send their children to a Catholic University, they would be going to a true Catholic University.

Howard,

Stop blaming the Council.  Both Liberals and traditionalists have been called out on their misinterpretations of the council.

http://www.catholicherald.co.uk/news/2012/11/30/prefect-of-the-cdf-says-seeing-vatican-ii-as-a-rupture-is-heresy/

The Holy Spirit speaks to the church as a whole, not to specific groups. I am tired of people using the spirit as an excuse when they when want to promote something. What spirit are we to listen to?

Right on, Grok Hadrian. The problem with the theology faculty at many Cahtolic universities is that they skip right over teaching the Magisterium and go right into teaching why the Magisterium is wrong. Those who think this is about exposing students to a “different point of view” after they already have been given a firm grounding in the Truth are incredibly naive. It is about indoctrination. These folks have an agenda; their goal is to produce as many people who think like them as possible. They are wolves in sheeps clothing. They are the enemy within.  That’s what makes them so dangerous - they are seen by their students as teachers of Truth rather than as deceivers. These poor kids go off to college without a firm grounding, and then get indoctrinated in the theology of dissent.

In the U.S. Navy, if anything goes wrong on the ship, guess who is responsible? That’s right, the captain.

The captain is not allowed to shift the blame as he is the one responsible for the training and discipline of the crew and the other officers. If there is a foul-ball in the crew, the captain cannot stick his head in the sand and ignore the situation.

You can see where I’m going with this.

The recent popes, especially JPII, has been remiss in his duty to the Church. He—and Benedict now—have used only a fraction of the power at their disposal to address the abuses in Church organization like the colleges this posting come under.

Why are they afraid on confronting the modern world? Or do they agree with the modern world as many in the Vatican do?

The Catholic hierarchy roars like a mighty lion when faced with traditional Catholics begging for some crumbs but squeaks like a frighten mouse when dealing powerful secular forces—or Muslims, for that matter. 

Susan Lersch - Truly Catholic universities may always be considered “second rate” by the secular academic establishment. So what?  Or is being well-perceived by the secular academic establishment the most important thing, in your mind?  Most Catholic universities sold out many years ago to try to defeat this (incorrect) assumption. I believe that they were absolutely wrong to do so. Your response also implies that you think kids go off to college with a firm grounding in the Magisterium and should be exposed to other points of view.  That’s not what is happening.  Many kids go off to college without a firm grounding, and when they arrive the indoctrination in the theology of dissent begins. Their proffessors are not simply “exposing” them to alternative viewpoints. No, they have made it their life’s work to create as many dissenting Catholics as they can in the hope that someday they will “change” the Church. Most of these kids are putty in the hands of their professors, whether their cause is radical feminist theology, homosexual marriage, married priests, women’a ordination - whatever - they are teaching kids that the Church is wrong, wrong, wrong.  It is an absolute scandal.

An “autonomous” Catholic University would be an oxymoron, since one cannot be Catholic if one is not in communion with Christ’s One, Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic Church.

Theology that is not grounded in The Truth, belongs in The History of Religion Department, not in a Catholic Theology Department. Catholic Theology serves to witness to The Truth, Jesus The Christ, and thus challenge the issues of the day in light of our Catholic Faith.

Good points Don. My niece is currently showing the effects of going to a ‘Catholic’ High School’s theology department. Though from a religious family, she is missing regular church attendance. She is now confused about her understanding of what being Catholic means.

Not only is this problem massive in the Catholic University system but it has also worked its way into the High School system as well. I don’t have a problem with these kids learning dissenting views, but the goal should be to teach them how to defend the faith against them. Otherwise, they are only an excuse to get involved in sinful behavior because once you loose truth, we can all decide what is right and wrong based only on what we desire (Relativism). Using desire as a guiding light is not such a good idea, especially for hormonal college kids.

As one who lives proximate to the University and has participated in a number of functions there and one who has graduated from a Jesuit University, I am extremely pleased to see President Lyons show “presidential” leadership and vision.  Hurrah!

“...If academic freedom is to be protected, it is important that ideologues be prevented as much as possible from abusing it in order to spread distortions or outright disinformation intended to achieve some political purpose. ... Academic freedom does not mean freedom to misrepresent, to distort or to talk nonsense to students while enjoying security against outside criticism. Faculty members should not feel free to give students any version of the facts that those faculty members are unable or unwilling to defend in a debate with people better qualified than students are to detect errors, and if necessary to expose falsehoods. ... outside monitoring [is] all the more valuable as a protection for truth – a safeguard against abuse of academic freedom in the interests of a political agenda. The only real ‘chilling effect’ will be on abuse, not on academic freedom as properly understood – that is, on the freedom to disseminate ideas that you ARE willing to defend publicly and to support with evidence. ...” – ABUSE OF ACADEMIC FREEDOM: WHAT SHOULD BE DONE?
Kenneth H.W. Hilborn

How refreshing to hear of a Catholic university president finally standing up for the faith!  Thank you, President Lyons, for your courage.  Don’t back down!

You see, this is what happens when such a minor step as this is taken:

“Earlier in the week, USD President Mary Lyons defended the disinvitation in an open forum with more than 75 students, citing Beattie’s public support for civil same-sex “marriage” as the reason. Lyons said that the donors who helped to create the Center for Catholic Thought and Culture, which had initially offered the fellowship, wished the Center to be “one place perhaps where faculty and others could encounter what the Church teaches.” She felt that the invitation was incongruent with the donors’ wishes.

The faculty resolution took that point head on, saying in effect that those who donate money to the University should have no say about what goes on in the University. The resolution stated plainly:

The wishes of donors or benefactors —or the stated interpretation of said wishes by the university administration — must not limit or impede in any way the full exercise of academic freedom in teaching, learning, scholarly activity, or academic decision-making in the university community.

The fallout, according to the resolution, has been extensive including The American Association of University Professors (AAUP) threatening to place USD on its censure list of institutions that “are not observing the generally recognized principles of academic freedom and tenure,” the national Executive Committee of the Academic Honor Society Phi Beta Kappa stating a “concern” about the campus’ commitment to diversity of speech and perspective, and Professor Mike Davis of the University of California, Riverside, resigning his appointment to the Knapp Chair of Liberal Arts at USD in response to Lyons’ decision.”

What is required is a complete rejection of the prevailing “dogma” of secular academia by Catholic universities.  Don’t be afraid to be Catholic!

Great information and comment Don. This shows that no matter how far Catholic Universities bend over backwards to make this secularized and relativistic society happy, it will never be enough, so why try. Next they will want Catholic Universities to remove the word Catholic from them so they aren’t showing prejudice toward other ‘faith systems’. Otherwise the only way to be a good Catholic University is to NOT BE A Catholic University.

Grok Hadrian -

My post was intended to show how it will be (almost) impossible to make any real changes at these supposedly “Catholic” universities.  The only practical solution is for the Vsatican or Bishops to strip them of their Catholic affiliation and start over by building up the faithful colleges like Franciscan, Benedictine, Ave Maria, Belmont Abbey, Christendom, etc. However, these schools are very small and relatively unknown to the majority of Catholics. Another problem is that many Catholic parents(and students) are more concerned with supposed academic prestige (read: job prospects and graduate school admissions) than with the faithfulness of the institution or ensuring that they receive truly Catholic education.  See Ms. Lersch’s post, above.  Also, many (perhaps most) so-called Catholics in the United states apparently buy into the agenda being promoted by these institutions, or at least they are not offended by it.  Just look at the Catholic vote in the most recent election; that tells you all you need to know. I believe that many of these universities have made the calculation that they can flaunt the Magisterium and still call themselves Catholic with no real reprecussions.  The alumni still give; the students still come; the Church shrugs. And then, as this case illustrates, there is very little an administration can do in the face of a tenured faculty that wails and nashes its teeth at the slightest threat to their cherished “academic freedom.”

I have linked below to a must read for all Catholic parents (especially those with high school age children).

The Cardinal Newman Society has published an updated and improved version of “The Newman Guide to Choosing a Catholic College.”

The Guide provides extensive information to help parents and students choose a Catholic college that has a strong fidelity to the Faith.

http://allhands-ondeck.blogspot.com/2012/11/cadinal-newman-society-publishes-2012.html

Grok Hadrian -

“Next they will want Catholic Universities to remove the word Catholic from them so they aren’t showing prejudice toward other ‘faith systems’.”

Your point is well-made. I saw a story yesterday about St. Joseph’s in Maine removing the cross from its school logo.  Apparently, they were advised by marketing consultants that it hurt recruiting.

Thank you Mary, for having the courage to be Catholic.

If someone starts up a facebook page supporting President Lyons- let the rest of us know by posting a link- wish I had the time-

“14 ... In a word, being both a University and Catholic, it must be both a community of scholars representing various branches of human knowledge, and an academic institution in which Catholicism is vitally present and operative.”
“21 ... A Catholic University pursues its objectives through its formation of an authentic human community animated by the spirit of Christ.”
“27. Every Catholic University, without ceasing to be a University, has a relationship to the Church…”
‘27 ... One consequence of its essential relationship to the Church is that the institutional fidelity of the University to the Christian message includes a recognition of and adherence to the teaching authority of the Church in matters of faith and morals.
Catholic members of the university community are also called to a personal fidelity to the Church with all that this implies.
Non-Catholic members are required to respect the Catholic character of the University, while the University in turn respects their religious liberty.” - - - APOSTOLIC CONSTITUTION of the SUPREME PONTIFF
JOHN PAUL II on CATHOLIC UNIVERSITIES, Aug 15, 1990 (and went into effect on the 1st day of the Academic Year 1991.
If the Staff at any Catholic University disagrees with the above, they should not have taken the job in the first place.  They are certainly welcome to leave since good people are looking for better employment these days.

Some of the posters on this page, clearly are not Catholic, and do not know what the Catholic Church teaches.
To get you started, I invite you to the web site “What Catholics REALLY Believe SOURCE”.  You will not get personal opinions but verifiable with links to official Catholic Church information.
Further it is FRAUDULENT for any University to advertise itself as Catholic if it goes against any teaching of the Catholic Church.
All Catholic Universities are governed by: APOSTOLIC CONSTITUTION
of the SUPREME PONTIFF JOHN PAUL II on CATHOLIC UNIVERSITIES which went into effect in 1991.  (You can find this on the Vatican web site.)

Mary, your stance is much appreciated. We need more leaders at Catholic universities, like yourself, to stand up for the faith. Thank you.

How inspiring to see such a leader in one of our Catholic schools.  The gospels clearly point out to us that sometimes the real truth of our faith is sometimes a difficult pill to consume; those with faith will acknowledge the real truth without trying to make it conform to what feels good or is flying in the prevailing winds of society.  Well done.

Sad to see anti-Catholic bigots actually drawing checks from a Roman Catholic university.

Glad to be Catholic when I see the Catholic Church continue to stand for Jesus and scripture and traditions and teachings.
Persons who claim “Catholic” need to be challenged, and if allowed on site should be addressed with real Catholicism, represented by Catholic theologians recognized by the Church. 
In Washington State gay marriage advocates published a bunch of names of “catholic” supporters in secular news sources, but who knows who or where these ‘catholics’ could be validated voices of Catholicism.  Gay resources with billions of dollars threw mega millions into the Washington State media, supporting legislation written and propagandized by Gay advocates and legislators.  Somehow the voters were not given illumination of the consequences of this legislation, and somehow the Ref 74 allows same sex marriage and more, because most voters did not look into the written document, but voted on surface ideas as presented by a gay friendly media.  The media resources neglected to include any official commentary, and rejected ‘catholics’ who opposed LBGT agendas.

If Catholic universities, of note are Notre Dame and the Jesuit institutions, continue their agendas, their anti-Catholic, pro LBGT culture sponsorships, as more important than God’s commandments, notably the 1st Honoring God, it seems appropriate that the Church acquire the properties, facilities, and responsibilities, and bring truths to bear.

Faculties should be qualified by the Catholic Magisterium, not just by the institution’s Human Resource office.

If these professors want to listen to a “theologian” speak against the teachings of the Church, maybe they should go work for a non-Catholic university.

All heresies and schisms taught by any “Catholic” at any Catholic Univerisity or College, must be reported to: 1) the University Board of Trustees; and 2) the Bishop of the Diocese in which the University is located.
Just because someone has a degree in theology and calls himself a theologian does not make him free of error.
It is a disgrace and scandal that any Catholic University or College does not use the “CATECHISM of the CATHOLIC CHURCH, Second Edition” as a required student text for Freshman and/or sophomores.  Without the CCC the student has no reference to refute heretics and schismatics.

Way to go Prof Lyons.  Lets encourage our students with the Truth…they get enough of the other stuff from elsewhere(it’s all around em). 

I hope we don’t have to apologize for doing this.  Can you backround check them before you “invite” them.

Unless it’s a debate you are organizing, you wouldn’t invite them to the College. Period. Are we really confused about this kind of thing, are board members that confused?? Fire the board. This isn’t about what we think….it’s about truth. Keep telling like it is, Jesus made it so simple, but we have to test it right?  If the board wants to go bowling with her off campus….super,,,but why are we even discussing the credentials of someone obstinate enough to fight Rome on such easy to understand issues.
Tina Beatties model of a woman would not be Mary, or St Therese…in fact there is no way she even reads the Bible or perused Theology of the Body,and Tina detests obedience(as do many of us from time to time). Let her do her thing somewhere else. I’m tired of hearing about dissenting priests, nuns and “scholars”. We are where we are as a result of loosey goosey bishops(we got em(still) in NY).  Straighten up and fly right…I sure have to.  Don’t you understand you Catholic Educators must turn the ship around…we’re counting on your faithfulness to Christ(at least that). As dictators? No. But as disciples of Jesus who said “let the children come to me”.  The Oath of fidelity to the Church is an easy metric…“no I can’t adhere to that”  hmmmmm, really….“the body of Christ on earth…you have trouble with that?”...eeehhhhghaaads.  Some of Jesus’s followers found his message hard to swallow, that’s ok ...he did not scold them but let them go….hopefully many of them returning as prodigal sons and daughters.

Amen Anne on Monday. My “only catholic school in the county”...their students wouldn’t know what was in the Catechism if it hit them in the forehead….thanks to our psuedo catholic principal and Pastor(which it pains me to say)...Just for fun…when my daughter went to spain for world youth day they ran out of the Catechisms…they werent in every backpack…kind of sad.

Posted by Reggie on Saturday, Dec 15, 2012 1:49 PM (EDT):
“If Catholic universities, of note are Notre Dame and the Jesuit institutions, continue their agendas, their anti-Catholic, pro LBGT culture sponsorships, as more important than God’s commandments, notably the 1st Honoring God, it seems appropriate that the Church acquire the properties, facilities, and responsibilities, and bring truths to bear.
Faculties should be qualified by the Catholic Magisterium, not just by the institution’s Human Resource office.”

First of all, Catholic Universities do not report to the Catholic Magesterium. Secondly, they have diverse student bodies and allow academic freedom. They are not narrow-minded, anti-gay bigots like the conservative Catholics like you.

I don’t think that it is healthy to prohibit any dissenting opinions by Catholics who do not completely agree with Church teaching on non-dogmatic social issues

“Are we really confused about this kind of thing, are board members that confused?? Fire the board.”

You want to fire the board of a university for disagreeing with the Pope?  What if the Pope is wrong and the board is right?  Is that impossible?

Bill S,

Know the full story. Prof.  Beattie was told she told speak, but her political views could not be claimed to be theology.  I think this was a fair expectation.

That being said, where were all these people when this was happening on the other side, when humane vitae defenders were being banned from Catholic universities. Or priests were being expelled from Catholic seminaries for being too Catholic.

This is nothing compared to a complete ban, it’s a reasonable expectation, but some people do not get it.

The appeal to conscience, forgets the fact that informed conscience is based on study and the ability to come up with concrete evidence for one’s positions, to the best of one’s ability.  It’s not based on how one feels.

IMO let them speak, but then there might be students and others who are not as informed, to see through their non-facutual appeal to emotional nonsense, because Catholic education has been dumbed down so much.

Don,

I agree about the tactics being used by dissenting Catholics. They are not even honest.  In any field of study, data, and observation come before conclusion, which comes before making predictable future outcomes or conclusions. In short this is emotional politics, not grounded in fact, or reason, but in arrogant ignorance.

This is why informed Catholics, need to stop parroting things, like because the church said so, it’s tradition etc.  And tell them that informed conscience is being able to come up with data to support one’s claims. If they cannot do this, it remains an opinion, which should not count anymore than anybody else’s.

Yes Bill,
My tendency would be to trust a liberal board of a College over the Vicar of Christ. That is why I should become a Protestant, right.

Bill S,

You have replaced reasoned debate with slogans and name-calling. Emotional politics does not convince the informed.

“First of all, Catholic Universities do not report to the Catholic Magesterium. Secondly, they have diverse student bodies and allow academic freedom. They are not narrow-minded, anti-gay bigots like the conservative Catholics like you.”

What the heck is a conservative Catholic? Orthodox Catholics are much more informed and harder to refute than you narrow-minded stuck in the 60s time zone hippies.

I can do insults too.

Grok:

You don’t want to give up Catholicism itself. But Catholics ought to look at the Pope the way Americans look at the President. Does the President or Governor interfere with the goings on at state colleges? Are Americans prohibited from dissent?  Must they accept everything the President states as the truth?  Is the President infallible?  What really makes the Pope any better?

“Know the full story. Prof.  Beattie was told she (could) speak, but her political views could not be claimed to be theology.  I think this was a fair expectation.”

Savvy: good to hear from you.
I know she is for gay marriage and contraception. These are not theological issues. As far as I know, she was disinvited not told that her political views could not be claimed to be theology.  She received a letter withdrawing the invitation.

Bill S, depending on what a board is disagreeing about yes, firing would be commendable. You seem to think dissent for the sake of dissent should be the Church’s chief value. And you are consumed with hate. Sad.

Bill S,

Prof. Beattie, claims her views are theology. That’s the issue.  Prof Beattie’s work The Last Supper According to Martha and Mary is not being presented as a work of fiction, but as narrative theology.

Since the publication of this work of narrative theology describing the sexual activities of Jesus’ apostles and disciples.

It was right to disinvite this nut. Informed conscience does not mean one can sprout any claim they want.

Bill S,

In this case the Pope and the President are not the ones calling their personal views theology. The Pope’s infallibility only covers a few things. Liberals want theirs to cover everything.

If any of us made a claim to theology, and did not have the evidence to back it up.  And then accused those who disagreed with us, of persecuting us.  People would say we are nuts. But, if your a liberal, you can have a pity party and get all the ignorant in the world on your side, singing your praises, about how horrible those inquisiters are.

Dave: I am not consumed with hate. And I don’t think dissent for the sake of dissent should be the Church’s chief value.  I just think that Catholics should be able to question Church teaching.

Bill S,

“They are not narrow-minded, anti-gay bigots like the conservative Catholics like you.”

If you think these folks are narrow-minded anti-gay bigots then yes, you are consumed with hate. I pray for you.

“Since the publication of this work of narrative theology describing the sexual activities of Jesus’ apostles and disciples.
It was right to disinvite this nut. Informed conscience does not mean one can sprout any claim they want.”

Colleges routinely have controversial guest speakers. I guess I don’t really care that much about this one way or another. There wasn’t that much harm in letting her speak or did inviting her.

Bill S,

She does not understand the meaning of informed conscience or revealed doctrine.  It’s not wrong for Catholics to go to a Catholic university, and expect them to uphold Catholic teaching. It’s reasonable.

“If you think these folks are narrow-minded anti-gay bigots then yes, you are consumed with hate. I pray for you.”

I could have chosen better words but my main point is that Catholics are bigoted against gays. There is no other way to look at it.

Colleges are pluralistic. They are not strict about doctrine and dogma. But that’s fine. They did what they had to do.

This is the ‘wave’ of the present.  There is not one credible Cathollic College left in the U S.  Look at this state’s only ‘claimed catholic’ college:

Maine’s Only Catholic College Removes Cross from Brand
[Update 12/19/12: Saint Joseph’s College clarified that although its new secular logo will be used in College marketing, the College has made no change to its College Seal, which will continue to be used for certain purposes and continues to feature a cross and motto in Latin. See new post here.]
The symbol of Saint Joseph’s College, the only Catholic college in Maine, has long been a seal with a cross on a shield with the motto “Fortitudo et Spes” meaning “Fortitude and Hope.” But the president of the college just announced in a letter to students forwarded to The Cardinal Newman Society that after an extensive marketing study, the college founded by The Sisters of Mercy will be using a new logo — without the cross and motto — in its marketing to prospective students
.....”

  Can’t be Catholic and successful, so they say.

Bill S,
Don’t worry, I was trying to be facetious. It is silly for a Catholic to back a board of liberal teachers (perhaps not Catholic at heart anyway) over the Vicar of Christ and the Magesterium, that has been assigned by Christ to guide Christians. Did Christ assign a bunch of philosophers and theologians of his day to direct his church? No he didn’t. He picked fisherman, etc to guide his Church. These so called philosophers and theologians have influenced such disasterous movements as the ‘Spirit of Vatican II’ with its results such as 5% to 25% Catholic Church attendance, Catholic countries turning to secularism, and many Catholics leaving the Church in its wake.

There are other both secular and religious movements that have effected the Church, but none more corrupting than the ‘Spirit of Vatican II’ which espoused that it was inspired by Vatican II yet was promoting ideas that were in sharp contrast to Vatican II teachings.

What Catholics are called to do, is discriminate between acts that respect the inherent Dignity of the human person from the moment of conception, and acts that demean the inherent Dignity of the human person, because any act that does not respect the personal and relational essence of the human person created in The Image of God, is not an act of Love. Our Call to Holiness has always been a call to authentic Love.

Marriage, by its very essence is restrictive to begin with because not every couple can exist in relationship as husband and wife. Marriage exists for the Good of the husband, the Good of the wife, and the Good of the family that is created from the union between a husband and a wife. To claim that marriage equality exists to affirm and condone the equality of sexual acts and sexual relationships would be a lie from the start. Love is not coercive, nor is it possessive, nor does it serve to manipulate for the sake of self-gratification.

Bill S,

Attacking the motives of others is an attempt to escape from engaging issues.

“Colleges are pluralistic. They are not strict about doctrine and dogma. But
that’s fine. They did what they had to do”

I agree that this would apply to a secular college, but someone who made claims to conscience based on Catholic teaching, should know what it stands for.

Well said, Nancy D.  The modernist attempt to re-create and deny what is physically real is simply a fear of reality itself.

To most students, a good Catholic college is, first and foremost, a good college. The fact that it is a Catholic college is of little or no significance to the vast majority of attendees. If someone is still seeking more instruction in religion, they don’t usually seek it at colleges that teach liberal arts, engineering, law, etc. My son attends Boston College Law School, a school established by the Jesuits. But he does not attend church and has no interest in religion. Catholic schools compete with secular schools for students and they have to offer a complete secular curriculum.

Bill S,

You said, you disagreed with church teaching.  Why do you not respect the right of others to disagree?

The Ecclesial Advisor for Ave Maria University is Vienna archbishop, Christoph Cardinal Schönborn who has TWICE bestowed the Pontifical decoration upon pro-abortion politicians.  The Order of St. Gregory is the fourth highest award for merits regarding the Roman-Catholic Church. It is directly granted by the Pope and is one of the highest decorations that is conferred on lay people.

  How is it possible that this man remains on the Ave Maria staff to make a mockery of this very special award instituted by pope Gregory XVI. in 1831?

  Von Schönborn is the general editor of the new catechism and is also the author of YouCat. As you know YouCat has been recalled because of its many errors.  Schönborn is also known for his balloon masses and calls the Buddhist, Dalai Lama, Holiness.
    Facts are stubborn things.  These kinds of men have advantages of power and authority and are destructive.  Conciliarists are silent pertaining to these matters.  They cannot or do not care to defend Catholicism, obviously.

Posted by savvy on Wednesday, Dec 26, 2012 11:49 PM (EDT):
Bill S,
You said, you disagreed with church teaching.  Why do you not respect the right of others to disagree?
**********************

I definitely respect the rights of others to disagree. I even agree with some points you make. I consider arguments defending Church teaching and I try to distinguish between when you and others really believe what you are saying and when you are just agreeing with Church teaching because you think you have no other choice. I try to discourage you from the latter and make sure you are thinking for yourself. Sometimes I am convinced that you are not.

Bill S,

As I see things, this is a deep fear of what is physically real. It takes the world of form and matter and tries to manipulate it, with dualism that makes opposites the same. It tries to engage in gender-bending under the false pretext that equal means same.

Those with a binary views are caught in the cross-chairs because they respect distinctions in the created world and do not try to manufacture it, based on what they think.

Bill S. We simply disagree about what a Catholic university should be. Based on the view you have laid out, there is no reason to even have a Catholic universities, since they would be no different from secular univiersities. I am afraid that most people do see it your way.  In my opinion, that is unfortunate.  Catholic universities should be different. They should offer an education that is infused with Catholic values and that is faithful to the Church’s teaching. There are plenty of secular schools where people can send their kids to be indoctrinated with relativism and the culture of death.

Savvy,

I don’t understand your last comment.  What is a deep fear of what is physically real?

What do you mean by dualism and binary views?

Sorry. This one went right over my head.

Bill S,

Sorry, If I am heavy on the philosophy.  That’s just the way I talk.  Binary distinctions are east-west, male-female, day-night, hot-cold, dry-wet, raw-cooked, life-death, good-evil, heaven-earth.

Each of these things is unique in themselves and has it’s own nature, characteristic etc.

This is called the natural order of things. We cannot live in world without this order, and direction. Things become disoriented.

Dualism is the concept that there are no distinctions, so these things are based on how one perceives them, so life and death could be the same based on how one perceives them, fire and water, men and women etc.

Gender-theoriest are usually not found of distinctions, between the sexes. So man and woman become generic human etc.

The underlying fear is one of what is physically real in the world. In the early church it was called a heresy called gnosticism, where the created world is just an illusion, and is not real.  Later on in the 7th century it was called iconclasm, the view that it was wrong to represent anything with form and shape. Therefore all works of art were to be devoid of form or shape and more generic.

This finally hit home with the Protestant reformation and the stripping of the altars, getting rid of the sacraments, or arguing they were just symbolic etc.

In Catholicism/Orthodoxy etc, the seven sacraments are binary, when properly understood. They represent the natural order of things, and therefore cannot be altered to suit oneself.

There’s an interesting book written by a Physicist on the sacraments, but I will leave that for another time.

I hope this makes sense.

Faculty and Staff at “Catholic” Universities gave overwhelmingly to Obama

Total donors: 928
Obama donors: 832 (89.6%)
Romney donors: 96 (10.3%)
Total donations
Obama: $449,229
Romney: $70,304
5 Schools with 100% Obama donations: Santa Clara
University, College of the Holy Cross, Loyola University
Maryland, University of Dallas, University of Portland
Georgetown University
Obama: 288 donors giving $196,311
Romney: 39 donors giving $34,495
Notre Dame University
Obama: 89 donors giving $35,875
Romney: 9 donors giving $11,720
Boston College
Obama: 84 donors giving $53,146
Romney: 7 donors giving $5,475
Fordham University
Obama: 66 donors giving $41,652
Romney: 4 donors giving $3,500
Saint Louis University
Obama: 47 donors giving $23,351
Romney: 11 donors giving $6,614
Santa Clara University
Obama: 46 donors giving $23,075
Romney: 0 donors
Loyola University Chicago
Obama: 34 donors giving $23,500
Romney: 1 donor giving $250
Catholic University of America
Obama: 32 donors giving $22,018
Romney: 1 donor giving $2,500
Villanova University
Obama: 29 donors giving $12,200
Romney: 4 donors giving $5,250
Xavier University
Obama: 20 donors giving $11,601
Romney: 1 donor giving $250
Marquette University
Obama: 16 donors giving $6,500
Romney: 1 donor giving $250
University of Dayton
Obama: 12 donors giving $4,162
Romney: 1 donor giving $250
Loyola Marymount University
Obama: 10 donors giving $3,500
Romney: 4 donors giving $3,005
Siena College
Obama: 10 donors giving $5,281
Romney: 1 donor giving $1,000
Creighton University
Obama: 9 donors $2,700
Romney: 8 donors giving $4,000
Fairfield University
Obama: 8 donors giving $4,425
Romney; 2 donors giving $500
Gonzaga University
Obama: 8 donors giving $1,862
Romney: 1 donor giving $250
University of Portland
Obama: 8 donors for $2,600
Romney: 0 donors for $0
Stonehill College
Obama: 7 donors giving $3,300
Romney: 0 donors giving $0
College of the Holy Cross
Obama: 4 donors giving $1,500
Romney: 0 donors giving $0
Loyola University Maryland
Obama: 2 donors giving $1,200
Romney: 0 donors giving $0
Providence College
Obama: 2 donors giving $450
Romney: 1 donor giving $225
University of Dallas
Obama: 1 donor giving $150
Romney: 0 donors giving $0
Thomas Aquinas College
Obama: 0 donors for $0
Romney: 0 donors for $0
http://www.campusreform.org/blog/?ID=4529

Bill S,

The French anthropologist Claude Lévi-Strauss observed binary thinking among pre-literate Amazon tribes in the 20th century. In his book, Le cru et le cuit, Strauss explores cultural perceptions of natural/raw-prepared/cooked, and other oppositions within primitive cultures.

Lévi-Strauss dedicated himself to searching for the “underlying patterns of thought in all forms of human activity.” He argued on the basis of his anthropological findings that the primitive mind has the same structures or patterns as the civilized mind. These observations culminated in his famous book Tristes Tropiques, which positioned him as the central figure in the structuralist school.

Flux occurs within boundaries, but the order of creation is fixed. Lévi-Strauss and other structuralists agree that all humans observe certain patterns in the ordering of their societies and these patterns are informed by objective observation of the fixed order in creation.

In other words, trends come and go, but hot-cold, male-female, day-night, raw-cooked, east-west remains the same.

Post-modernists are simply wrong when they claim that these things are based on one’s perception, rather than reality.

“Based on the view you have laid out, there is no reason to even have Catholic universities, since they would be no different from secular universities.”

Catholicism has had more purpose than just teaching Catholicism. I had 12 years of education in Catholic schools and the purpose of just about all of it was to prepare me for higher education and life in general. If I wanted more religious training I would have gone to the seminary or taken special courses in theology. Catholics have been the great educators in all fields of study. It is only natural that they would become more secular as we move from myth and superstition to more modern pursuits.

Bill S,

I took special notice of your statement about Catholic Universities where you said “It is only natural that they would become more secular as we move from myth and superstition to more modern pursuits.”

I believe that this is the reason so many have left the Catholic Church, why so many no longer attend Mass, and why so many don’t agree with many teachings of the Catholic Church. As many ‘Catholic’ institutions such as Universities, religious orders etc, have moved toward a more ‘SECULAR’ attitudes, they have moved away from spirituality. One can not see God or know God through secularism. One can only know him through a spiritual life. At one time my thinking was much like yours, but even more extreme, I was an agnostic. Thankfully God brought me back.

I have noticed that as one tries to come closer to God (ON HIS TERMS), they become more spiritual. It is like they can more easily cross that boundary from this physical world to the spiritual world. My family has had many experiences where those two worlds seem to meet. The most spiritual women in my family, within a few months of their deaths, know in advance, whether by sickness or some kind of calamity. Oddly, they do not fear it, but look forward to it.

I have noticed that those who don’t achieve that spiritual connection with God, try to do it on their terms, as if God has to meet them half way. We, by nature, are selfish but like a child who wants to play in the middle of the highway, it isn’t always to our best self interest. I have noticed that the Catholic Church has consistently produced those who have the strongest spiritual connection, for example the saints. But this movement toward secularism has in fact caused many Catholics to loose that spiritual connection. One of my sisters even left the church because she felt spiritually empty when going to mass and other Catholic prayer services.

Personally, the Tridentine mass was where God touched me again, that spiritual connection was reestablished. Just as when I was a child, I felt like I touched heaven again, after 40 years. Yes, this time I did it on Gods terms and he touched me. I am not saying the Tridentine mass is God Terms for all, but that it was what he used for me.

Bill S,

This would depend on what your definition of myth and superstition is, as I have outlined above, post-modernism is an attack on common sense, never mind religion.  Making this the myth and superstition of our age. Catholic universities should fight them all the more, in defence of both faith and reason, or they are not Catholic educators, but promoters of myth and superstition.

Grok,

I agree. I was lapsed for a while, and it was an experience with the Eucharist that brought me back to the church. God acted on God’s terms.

“I believe that this is the reason so many have left the Catholic Church, why so many no longer attend Mass, and why so many don’t agree with many teachings of the Catholic Church.”

I think the decline of the Catholic Church is inevitable. The world is becoming more secular and young people see religion as divisive and outmoded. The Church cannot change with the times without admitting that some of its past teachings were wrong thereby losing credibility. However, if it refuses to change it will lose the younger generation. The best it can do is stay the course and hope that people are drawn to it as a source of stability in an ever changing world.

Great Savvy,

I had never thought about it but it was the appreciation for the Eucharist that the Tridentine mass I attend gave me that was central to my return. I am reading this book about the Eucharist and how central it was to the lives of the Saints. There are those who can’t understand how this piece of bread can mean so much to so many. I can’t say that I completely understand it myself, but I am trying to do things on Gods terms and as I do so, I think he gives me more understanding and I get closer to him.

May God bless you.

Grok,

Nobody is great, but God. I attend the Novous Ordo, in a vibrant parish.

Bill S,

You need to go out more. The church is exploding in Africa and Asia. The decline is Western, but even here it’s losing baby boomers. The younger generation are looking for something authentic, and not phony, even if it means it might be challenging or tough. I know this because I am part of running one of the world’s largest Catholic youth ministries. The church started with 12 Apostles, she does not need tons of people who are not committed or dedicated. A few good ones will do.

This discussion reminds me of a quote from Chesterton.

“The whole curse of the last century has been what is called the Swing of the Pendulum; that is, the idea that Man must go alternately from one extreme to the other. It is a shameful and even shocking fancy; it is the denial of the whole dignity of the mankind. When Man is alive he stands still. It is only when he is dead that he swings.” –

The New House, Alarms and Discursions

Grok,

In Romans 1:20, Paul asserts that God’s invisible qualities, namely His divine nature and eternal power, are evident in the fixed binary order of creation.

A blow to the binary distinctions strikes the very heart of Christianity, for without this understanding, the Incarnation and Sacrifice of Jesus Christ is meaningless. The vultures are circling around HIM. Have they EVER succeeded?

I have noticed a real serious trend where the Novus Ordo masses are getting much more reverent and meaningful. The daily mass I attend is Novus Ordo but I attend the Tridentine mass on Sundays at an FSSP (an order setup by Pope John Paul II) since it is 40 miles away from where I live. In my city most of the Novus Ordo masses are a sea of gray but in the city just north of us, there seems to be more and more young people attending them.

From my perspective, as they become more God centered, more young people are attracted to them. When I was young, most of the masses were designed to entertain the youth. We could get much better entertainment at a party or concert. When I came back I was looking for God, not entertainment. The Tridentine was the only real God centered mass I could find in my area. Thankfully, Pope John Paul II has given the Tridentine mass back to us, for those of us who prefer it to enjoy.

This is a good link on how we discover binary opposition. It is natural. Dualism has to be indoctrinated.

http://www.englishbiz.co.uk/extras/binaryopposition.htm

Grok,

Yes, it’s esp. when the Eucharist is the centre.  Younger Catholics, are not looking for trendy Christianity. They want something that is deeper and more authentic.  Why would someone go to church if the church resembles any other place?  In fact “cool” does not attract as much as real does.

The more the culture becomes secular, the more we are going to see a turn towards tradition.

Hans Kung, is going crazy with this.  When he’s not attacking the Pope, he’s attacking younger post V2 Catholics.

Grok Hadrian, you stated, ”  have noticed a real serious trend where the Novus Ordo masses are getting much more reverent and meaningful.”
  How is an abomination of a mass made holy?  This ‘mess’ was contrived by dissenters of the Catholic Church.  Would you like the names of the protestant ministers who fabricated a mockery to be presided over by men who are merely presbyters, not priests?  How offensive it is to God to celebrate a meal and the people.  It has no supernatural substance nor sacrifice and is not a propitiation for sins of the world. 

Joe, I don’t want to get off subject here but I do understand your anger and concern. You know there is a reason I travel 40 miles to go to mass. But despite the ‘mess’ that you speak of, we have to work with what we have at this point.

The Catholic Church is God’s main conduit for Gods Holy Spirit. The Novus Ordo is all that is available for about 95% of Catholics. Close to where I was brought up, the Bishop implemented a Tridentine mass in one town and there was a complete rebellion by the parishioners. It was so bad, many stopped going to church and they ended up closing the Catholic school.

People don’t like sudden and drastic change. It takes time for people to see the spiritual benefits that many of the old ways of Catholicism. Honestly, the latin is difficult for me to follow but I love the Tridentine Mass. Maybe the best of both worlds is a latin Tridentine Mass with a little added English sprinkled in to make it easier to follow.

My main concern is not only the changes in the mass, but the wholesale loss of so many Catholic practices and Sacramentals. These too seem to be returning. Anger is not going to bring it all back. Only Christ like love, patients, hard work, and long suffering will bring the Catholic church back to its historic vitality.

Grok,

My most profound experiences with the Eucharist and with Jesus have been in Novous Ordo, parishes.  In my case, I know it was God reaching out to me, which is not rare, since I have met others with similar experiences, including a friend of mine who is a convert, who was fighting for his life in a hospital due to a drug addiction, but was delivered because of people praying for him.

Perhaps Both liberals and traditionalists are not meeting people and not being exposed to the wonders of God in the church today.  Or maybe they just need prayer warriors that can interceed for them before the throne of God.

Grok Hadrian response to your post on Monday, Dec 31, 2012 11:15 AM (EDT):
  I’m not angry –  but I am sufficiently horrified to speak out, however that many accept that must participate in the novus ordo missae contrived by protestants led by presbyters, not priests!  You claim ‘spiritual benefits of the OLD Catholic ways’.  The way of Holy Mother the Church is not old.  The total Deposit of Faith is adaptable in ALL generations.  One must, however, find where the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass is offered by the priesthood according to Mechizedek.  One may be closer than you think.  The missals used have both English and Latin to follow along.
  Ask the ‘priest’ who says the Tridentine Mass that you love how many months of training (he surely did not get years) in Latin he has had?  Also, how often he must say the novus ordo missae and how can he do two different consecrations?
  Re-read you last paragraph in Dec 31, 2012 11:15 AM (EDT):  The laity cannot change errors within that is allowed.  If you recognize errors, (and stay within the framework of them)  Grok Hadrian, than you charge the Holy Spirit with leading people astray.  Holy Mother the Church is not deceived, nor does the True Church deceive.  You’re in the wrong pew, brother. The Catholic Faithful have left.  Some will be lost, but they were ‘lost’ if they stayed.

The Church’s future is bright, especially with these groups of young, traditional, and orthodox Catholics.

http://areluctantsinner.blogspot.ca/2012/12/happy-new-year-churchs-future-is-bright.html

Cardinal Walter Kaspar, was the head of the Vatican’s Commission for Religious Relations with the Jews. He referred to this Joint Statement in a speech in Boston in November of 2002. He claimed that Christians should recognize that Jews need not be converted to Christianity to be saved.

According to the Decree on Ecumenism (Unitatis Redintegratio) and in the Declaration of the Relationship of the Church to Non-Christian Religions (Nostra Aetate), “all religions are all more or less good and praise worthy”.  Futhermore, Lumen gentium para. 8 states that the Catholic Church subsists in other denominations that are a source of salvation. The missionary spirit is not in the documents of Vatican II.

“He claimed that Christians should recognize that Jews need not be converted to Christianity to be saved.”

What he should have said was that Jews do not have to be saved, period.  Being saved is a strictly Christian concept. Jews believe that they are chosen, which is an equally ludicrous concept.

I don’t know how Muslims look at it. I know they think they will be rewarded with 70 virgins if they fly a plane into a building or strap a bomb vest on and blow themselves up in a public place.

These are all ridiculous promises designed to make us believe and do things we wouldn’t normally believe or do.  It’s all pretty ridiculous to me.

Bill S,

If you got a mortgage, and when you first payment was due, you received 10 mortgage bills in the mail, what would you do? Would you just assume that you didn’t have to pay your mortgage because you that at least nine of the 10 mortgage bills are fraudulent. If that were your approach, the bank that made the mortgage would foreclose on you and take your house away.

No the best approach is to try to figure out which of the mortgage bills is legitimate and pay your bill. Likewise, we all are here because of Gods kindness and love. There are ways we can determine which religion is legitimately Gods religion. It is the one that makes the most sense from history AND nature. Apparently you are an athiest, so the only reason you probably would listen to is the laws that nature teaches us. Laws such as social order brings peace, prosperity, and happiness. So rules such as don’t steel, rape, kill, cheat, etc your neighbor would be good basic natural rules.

Anti religious organizations break all these rules in order to take and hold power. This would include Nazis and Communists. All these rules are in most major religions but not in Athiesm. So we must look for additional rules that display natural logic, that is where the Catholic church comes in. It has rules that stabilize the main support of social order, the family. It follows nature that only a man and a woman can produce children and supply the necessary male and female influences all children need to grow up balanced. Other ‘rules’ stabilize that relationship but not allowing spouses to just up and leave their family without both material and developmental support. Marriage is forever. There are many other ‘rules’ that would, if followed by society as a whole, would bring about much more social and individual happiness and peace.

Another sign of Gods origin and blessing on the Catholic church is the fact that it has outlasted all other major religions, government, and ideologies despite opposition, persecution, murder, etc. Societies, governments, ideologies, religions, movements etc, all come and go, but the Catholic church remains. Gods Blessing indeed.

Grok: you speak as if you are living in a Catholic country. This country is built on principles that opposed the Old World tyrannies of the Church and the Monarchy. The laws we live by were not based on any religion. We live in a secular society which gets no moral guidance from the Catholic Church, which causes the Church to complain of persecution when the government refuses to listen to its teachings. We live in a truly free country.

Yes. The Catholic Church will last forever because it continues to attract new members. But its influence in this country will eventually become irrelevant.

You don’t seem to have read my comments well. Having been an atheist for many years, I finally determined that the do as you see fit ideology, does not equal happiness for individuals or society. Atheists have a much higher suicide and divorce rate than religious people. Countries under atheist rule have higher higher rates of these problems as well. This in itself points to the wisdom of looking to the Christian God for guidance.

Yes Christians have taken part in terrible wars. Almost always they were either under a anti-christian government, atheist government, or protecting themselves from these governments. I in fact think that we live in an almost totally secular country and that is the problem. If we do what we want with no concern about the long term effects on society or nature, we see a slow but sure deterioration in society.

Since God created nature, when we don’t follow Gods laws, we see natures laws flaunted and the terrible results. All we have to do is look at the statistics, record use of anti-depressants, record numbers of mass killings, record breakdown of the social fabric of society.

More murders of people have happened under atheist or anti-Christian governments in the last century than all Christians have committed throughout history combined. One can point to the USSR, Cambodia, and Nazi Germany for examples.

Why did Vatican II Council fail to condemn communism - the greatest thread in the world then and now?  The Pact of Metz was signed in Germany about 1959 all the while Catholics were being tortured and murdered in communist prisons.  Even now there is silence against communist aggression.

“Having been an atheist for many years, I finally determined that the do as you see fit ideology, does not equal happiness for individuals or society.”

So that made you change your belief from God doesn’t exist to God does exist?  How does the effect of how we live our lives affect whether God exists or not?  Wouldn’t it just be a matter of cause and effect?

Bill S,

The point is that these rules of life were in the Bible for thousands of years prior to Jesus Christ, instituted by God, and yet even in our modern day we see how when one follows these rules in life, one is happier and lives in better harmony with others. Once one is an Atheist, one only has their own conscience, whether good or bad to go by. When this is the case, even if one has a good conscience, it is easy to overrule it for ones own selfish gain. When exclusively atheistic governments have come to power, the result has been terrible to human life with mass killings, unhappiness, higher alcoholism rates, negative population growth, broken down family life, etc.

We seem to think that we live in an enlightened society with greater knowledge than any other time in history yet these simple rules instituted in the Bible, previous to Christ and those instituted by Christ, are still the best rules to live by to have a happy and more peaceful life. If these rules were not instituted by God, then men were much smarter thousands of years ago then today, since they were able to come up with these rules, but we can’t now. 

There are many other reasons I now believe in God but this is just one of them and one of the easiest for all to see.

Grok:  i think if you were to seriously look at the way you live, you would see that you simply live by common sense. You really don’t need any advice from anyone that lived thousands of years ago.  There is no great guidance that has been passed down through the ages.  We may live in a better world if people believe in God, but that doesn’t make him real.

Bill S,

You are missing my point. How could somebody who lived thousands of years ago have had the insight to know how civilizations should live. We are just now seeing the results of divorce laws that were implemented some 50 to 100 years ago, and most people still don’t recognize the damage that is being done to our society. We see single mothers slave away to raise their children that still grow up to be poorly adjusted adults because of a lack of a father image, the state has to pay welfare and other payments to support these thrown away wives, girl friends and children, gangs full of young men looking for a father, prisons full of the same young men who had no good father image, etc. Yet there is no movement in society to restrict divorce or laws to stabilize these broken families. It is almost impossible to create governmental laws to do this, even if people had the will. Yet we are to believe that men, with no college education, no books, no database of statistics, on their own, came up with a God and rules that were so far sighted as to see the kind of society we would have today. I don’t think so.

The novus ordo Church /post Vatican II conciliar church passes out annulments like candy.  Many in the conciliar church are in irregular marriages.

Hey, remember the ‘annulment’ the hypocrites in Boston gave Teddy Kennedy. But they represent the one, true church so it was okay.

“Yet we are to believe that men, with no college education, no books, no database of statistics, on their own, came up with a God and rules that were so far sighted as to see the kind of society we would have today. I don’t think so.”

What is so amazing to you about that?  It was St. Paul who spread Christianity the most. He was fairly well-educated. It’s not that they saw the kind of society we have today. It’s more the case that Christianity has had an influence on how society was formed. None of what has happened has really required God. It is all the working of simple human beings.