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I Can't Help It

Friday, March 15, 2013 10:46 AM Comments (86)

NPR did a pretty even-handed job yesterday of discussing the complaints that Pope Francis, when he was Cardinal Bergoglio of Argentina, was somehow involved in atrocities during the Dirty War, or that he didn't  do enough.  Host Audie Cornish says (emphasis mine): 

Some human rights activists argue that his silence hurt investigations in the Dirty War's aftermath, while other accounts reveal that the Pope took major risks to save the persecuted.

A few things that NPR didn't mention:  One activist who has "argued" (not proven) that his silence hurt investigation is one Horacio Verbitsky, author of the book El Silencio.  Verbistky was a leftist guerrilla commander who shot people, so, yeah, he should know about atrocities.

They also didn't mention that other accounts that "reveal" that he took major risks include Amnesty International, who, according to a source in this CNN report, cleared Bergoglio of any wrongdoing.  NPR did interview Michael Warren, Buenos Aires bureau chief for the Associated Press, who said that

Adolfo Perez Esquivel ... won the Nobel Peace Prize for his Argentine human rights work. And he said Bergoglio was no accomplice of the dictatorship.

So, a B-minus job, NPR.  You had to listen closely to hear how shaky are the accusations against Bergoglio, but it was a reassuring story in general. 

But then there was the follow-up piece, where they dredged up some affable Franciscan and asked him some of the lamest questions I've ever heard, such as, "When we see images of St. Francis, he's often surrounded by animals. Are there legends associated with that?"  If I had been on the Franciscan, I would have said, "Oh, yes!  There's a wonderful story of how St. Francis persuaded a swarm of angry butterflies to carry off Miss Viola swamp when she was terrorizing the second grade.  But that was no legend, it's true!"  (Why?  Because I'm still clinging to Tuesday's joke.)  And then the interviewer asked something like, "So, do you think that people will start buying more St. Francis stuff now?" (The Franciscan thought that they would.) 

Well, it's not the dumbest thing I've ever heard. (The dumbest thing was a commenter on a different station who repeatedly made reference to how difficult it would be for Francis to follow the act of Pope Benjamin.  I have to admit, I wouldn't even know where to start.)  But it got me thinking, if people are going to go ga ga over St. Francis merchandise in a manner most un-Franciscan, why not branch out?  Listen up, Catholic entrepreneurs!  Get in on the ground floor.  For ten percent of gross receipts, I'll sell you the intellectual rights to . . .

Pope Francis Cookbook.  Features 52 new and exciting ways to open a can of beans! (h/t for this joke to Lloyd from Dover in the combox yesterday)  ¡Salud!

Honest Raj's Election Certification Service, for when you're pretty darn sure those results just can't be right (One vote for Mrs. Mahony's baby?  Just one?)

Conclave 2013 Commemorative Seagull Decoy, a portable prop for any time you feel like dropping all your duties and responsibilities for several hours.  'Cause, see, you can say, "I'm not wasting time!  I'm looking at this SEAGULL!"  Or maybe that would only work once.

Frugal Frankie's Foot Bath!  Because . . . he . . . always . . . oh, never mind. 

Well, who wouldn't want the Bergoglio Folio, a handy little case for your bus pass.

On second thought, maybe I'm still a little punch drunk from the excitement of it all.  And I am okay with that. I feel a little bit like Ebeneezer Scrooge on Christmas morning.  I don't deserve to be so happy.  But I can't help it!

 

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...my favorite is the “Bergolio Folio.” XD

A news report today states the Pope chose his name to be in honor of the Jesuit priest,  St Francis Xavier.

I hope and believe that Cardinal Bergoglio did not make Marxist Jesuit priests disappear during the Dirty War.

Then again, I hope that “progressive Catholics” think it’s true, and modify their behavior accordingly.

As always - beautifully written. Thank you….and I thank God that I did not hear the reference to Pope Benjamin.  I think my head would have split in two.

Dennis, according to Cardinal Dolan and others at the Conclave, Pope Francis specifically told them that he chose the name in honor of St. Francis of Assisi.  So the other reports would seem to be wrong.

@Thomas, that’s hilarious!

Well said, Thomas.  :) 

I REALLY want a Bergoglio Folio!

I’ve been absolutely appalled by the attitude of the Chicken Little traddies, and the sedevacantists who who have crawled from behind their rocks to snipe at the Holy Father.  I like the Latin Mass.  I prefer it, and I wish it were everywhere.  I wish Buenos Aires had a great Latin Mass community.

But these attacks on the Pope on traditionalist sites need to stop.  You don’t get to elect the Pope.  The Cardinals do.  Your job is to owe him fealty.  You want a say in who the Pope is?  You respect the Pope only when he is Benedict, but not when he is Francis?  Sorry—you are not a traditionalist.  You are a Protestant who speaks Latin.

I put together a little modified Oath.  It was originally written by St. Boniface.  When he was made a bishop, he swore it to Pope Gregory II.  I propose that if anyone is considering a negative post on the Vicar of Christ, you first read this Oath:

http://wdtprs.com/blog/2013/03/card-bergoglio-in-2007-after-summorum-pontificum/#comment-397078

10% is not nearly enough for these ideas.  I have another: visit a good CPA!

So many take this event so lightly.  This is one of the greatest moments of the world history - even for non catholics. This truly was the Holy Spirit speaking to the world. 
We had better sit up and start listening very intently.  This man will be a martyr.  Our world is run by the devil himself and he surely hates our new Holy Father Francis. 
Watch eveything that happens in the world and discern where the hand of the devil is -beware and stay away from it!  AND PRAY!!more, hourly
PLEASE GOD GIVE YOUR SUPREME SHEPHERD, ARMOR AND KNIVES OF STRONGEST STEEL!!

Thomas, wasn’t St. Boniface eventually boiled in oil by Huns?  (Ironically, there was not a peep out of Rome on the occasion of this auto-da-fe.)

You respect the Pope only when he is Benedict, but not when he is Francis?  Sorry—you are not a traditionalist.  You are a Protestant who speaks Latin.”
****************************************************
My thoughts, too.

@Matt B: I know he was martyred in present-day Germany, but I am not aware of the method of execution, or Rome’s response to it.  But your point is well taken:  we owe fealty to the Pontiff regardless of whether our loyalty is reciprocated.

Re merchandising: I think I am going to trademark “Pope Franks”: a delicious hot dog made of 50% Argentine Beef, and 50% organic free-range seagull.

I did a bit of research (cf. Wikipedia) on Pope Francis’ ancestry. As in widely noted he is the son of Italian immigrants. These are known as “Italian Argentine”. Italian immigrants to Argentina began as early as the second half of the seventeenth century and gradually increased over time.

How about all the people disappeared by the Left?  We never get big exposes about them.  The Ukrainian forced starvation of 13 million is denied by the Communists.  The Russian holocaust of up to 50 million (more, according to Solzhenitsyn) is pooh-poohed.  No kidding.  I’ve heard left-wing activists declare that Solzhenitsyn was a CIA agent.  I’ve heard a law professor state that there were no atrocities committed under Stalin.  Similarly, the Armenian massacre by the Turks apparently never happened.  The murder of thousands of Catholic priests and nuns by the Spanish during the Civil War—fiction!

Thomas, that will be a welcome change from what the vatican used to serve: bavarian bergers.  Although your plan for Pope Franks is sound, argentinian beef is much too good to mix with seagull.  Seagull is the only living species with no natural predator.  That’s because it tastes bad.  All of creation agrees.

@Matt B:  I need to mix seagull in.  Consider it penance—and a symbol of His Holiness’ austerity.

Thomas, then you ought to replace the beef with turkey.  Although, range-free turkey can get pretty gamey.


There’s a law in the pentateuch about eating birds such as seagulls.  It’s considered loathsome and disgusting.  Moses is quoted in leviticus as saying “eat a dog before you eat a seagull.”  I guess this is kind of rabbinical humor.

@Thomas is a genius. I would have said he was “on a roll”, but I fear the puns that might come next.

In charity, I’d like to point out that, at least in the rain traditional blog that I visited, the commenter weren’t enthused, but there was generally a tone of “let’s wait and see” and calls to pay for Pope Francis.

That should have been “rad” trad. My phone keyboard doesn’t know me well enough to predict that yet.

omg. I’m not even remotely Catholic and I would totally buy a Bergoglio Folio. Make it happen.

@Roz:  You are too kind.  I will admit that Cardinal Bergoglio would not have been my first (Ranjith) or second (Burke) choice.  He probably would not have been my third, but I never got that far in ranking.  Thankfully, I don’t have a red hat. 

I am taking a wait-and-see approach as well.  We will see soon enough whether he is the Pope we need, or the one we deserve.  I am praying for the former, and I believe that regardless of his past, the Papacy changes a man.  Note the multiple references to “il diavolo”—the Devil—in his recent sermons/addresses.  That is a very different message from what I have heard lately—either from Rome or from the pulpit.  It is very encouraging.

I very much hope this Pope follows in the footsteps of St. Francis of Assisi—the real one, the one that was Catholic and tough-as-nails.  Not the secular distortion—the proto-hippie environmentalist.

NPR’s coverage, as a whole, has been hit-or-miss.  Sylvia Poggioli is routinely a disappointment.  Diane Rehm had Fr. Martin on yesterday and he was *great* but today the fill-in did nothing to challenge the vague references to critics of Bergoglio without addressing those who disagree with the critics.

And I wonder what would happen if the pope had been a former guerrilla who shot people? Hm….

My fave bungled story so far was NBC’s report from Rio de Janeiro, informing us that Latin America has been waiting 20 centuries for a Latin American pope. Hmm. I guess my history teachers were wrong about the date of Columbus’ arrival in the New World.

I personally would buy a Bergoglio Folio in a red hot second.  I think someone needs to start making these immediately.

“My fave bungled story so far was NBC’s report from Rio de Janeiro, informing us that Latin America has been waiting 20 centuries for a Latin American pope. Hmm. I guess my history teachers were wrong about the date of Columbus’ arrival in the New World.” LOL - that’s our public education - unbelievable.

Add me to the Thomas fan club today.
@Simcha just one or two raddy traddy jokes wouldn’t hurt anybody. It would actually help.  Pretty, pretty please?

*this message is for Kathleen:
I saw Alligator Gars at the Exploritorium in San Francisco last night!!!  So awesome.  I thought of you and decided on the spot that I’d never swim in a murky water hole in Louisiana. :)
***
carry on, sorry for the interuption.

http://www.thefind.com/gifts/info-rosary-pouch

Maybe the company that makes these can make a Bergoglio Folio!
:-) I would buy one!!

They do not kick dead dogs. Church is alive and well and no amount of lies, fault-finding will kill it. Survived Roman Empire, medieval power playing, mentally disturbed men like Luther, Stalin Hitler and it will survive Obama and Sibelius also.

anna lisa,
They’re kind of prehistoric looking & can get several feet long.
My son caught a gar in the swamp & got cut-up trying to take it off the hook.You have to skin them with gloves on because of the scales being so hard.But it’s a popular Lenten menu item.They make “boule’s” (fish balls/patties.)
Hope you’re having a great time in SF.
:)

New Pope;  same tired, creaking, aging body for me.  Good day to all of you.  Viva il Papa!

@Kathleen, I guess it was the Academy of Science we were at. Awesome place if you ever get out here. They turn it into a night club on Friday evenings which was very surreal. The T-Rex at the entrance really does look like a giant, mean chicken with teeth, especailly after a cocktail.
.
We are still in celebration mode over our new, already much beloved Pope.
The old hippies have nothing on him! :)

I can internet! I can’t wait for the money to start rolling in…..

http://www.cafepress.com/cp/customize/product2.aspx?from=CustomDesigner&number=809439501

Saw this on my Facebook feed and thought you all would appreciate it, if you’re looking for another reason to like our new Pope:

“I just heard on EWTN that several years ago, then-Cardinal Bergoglio came to speak at the Rome campus of the University of Dallas. Afterwards, the professors asked to take him out to dinner. He indicated he didn’t want to be a bother, and asked if he could eat with the students. They had already eaten. So he simply asked what was in the fridge, and they took him to the kitchen, and they had a pasta dinner. The report suggested the possibility that Cardinal Bergoglio may have done the cooking.”

I like the story, as it puts the lie to the claim that this is some sort of “false humility” put on by the new Pope so that he can throw out all of B16’s Catholic stuff.

“Even better than the real thing, yea.”  Bono Vox

As I noted on Wikipedia this afternoon (with citation for fear MarkShea gets on my case) - think on this - our new SPF (santo padre francisco) shares his regnal name with one of the two Jesuits he was accused of having denounced as superior (Ferenc is Hungarian for Francis) how about that for “keepin’ it real”? The good Fr. Jalicz concelebrated mass with Fr Jorge (exchanging the sign of peace, lest we forget the rubrics and their symbolism, before communing together in the Real Presence of the Holy Eucharist)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Franz_Jalics#Abduction

That wikipedia is written and edited by an esteemed panel of expert authors and skilled critics, no?

Wikipedia is to scholarship what Protestant theology is to Bible interpretation. CHECK with the actual text.

I depend completely on wikipedia for all my information needs, for example, on Ashton Kutcher and Taylor Swift.  I get a lot of information; although why I’m looking these things up, I have no idea.

Matt Have you tried jogging or a good enema?

This is the same *tommy-rot* flung at Pope Pius XII after WWII by the anti-Catholic crowd. Now it is same crowd talking (alleged) charges about the new Pope and so called Dirty War. Just go over to the New Yorker and read a bigot named Borowitz who was on the Papacy’s case even before the white smoke went up the chimney. Now that it has, he is having a field day venting his venom. We need to get deep into prayer for our Pope Francis before they destroy him with lies like these.

Dear MattB and Lone Thinker - I did the research in the original German and then translated it for your (and the english-speaking world’s) edification… sorry if you don’t appreciate the gift, but Fr Ferenc’s POV deserves to be heard by those who don’t read Austrian blogs (KATH.net), no?

@Shamrock:  The calumny against Pius XII (about not being anti-Nazi) was invented by a German playwright in 1963, about 5 years after the death of Pius XII.  The playwright was too young to have served in the Wehrmacht in WW II; and the calumny was repeated after 1963 by communists and others who were trying to diminish the moral authority of the Church (which in recent years has sadly been diminished by the behavior of a number of priests and others.)  At the death of Pius XII in 1958, many Jewish survivors of the holocaust were generous in their praises of his actions during WW II.  Check archived pages of the NY Times of that era.
Pius XII was the principal author of an encyclical, “With Burning Sorrow” written in German in 1936, and published by Pius XI.
TeaPot562

Clare, at last a real person.  It’s hard to take anybody seriously who premises his position by stating that three people are named Francis, and that this therefore establishes some kind of nefarious relationship.  Seems like cheap histrionics.


As far as wikipedia goes, this is the internet age, where we’ve become accustomed to accepting all kinds of gifts from perfect strangers.

Sounds like a repeat of the scandalous charges against Pope Pius XII during occupation of Rome by the Nazis, another nationalistic repressive government like Argentina.  The similarities with our government should be a real cause for concern.

@TeaPot….I know all this. I am over 75 yrs in age. I lived this history.
When I said *the same crowd* I simply meant those who are bigoted against the Church and now use this same kind of *tommy-rot* and attack to try to
destroy the reputation being enjoyed by our new Pope Francis and ultimately the ruination of our Church. The names of the characters and the political ideology is different…but the intent remains the same.

This story is ridiculous! Who would expect a 30 year old priest to be in a position to confront the Argentine military and government? This sort of story is typical of people with an agenda looking for a place to land.  We have some present day human rights atrocities going on right here in the U.S., even here in this good blogger’s home state of New Hampshire.  Catholic writers, with the possible exception of me, are surgically careful to avoid ever addressing it.  Here is a link to this story: http://araminthethicket.blogspot.com/2012/09/judge-arthur-brennan-sentenced-father.html

Boston, MA, March 13, 2013. DignityUSA Executive Director Marianne Duddy-Burke has made the following statement on the election of Pope Francis:

“We join our fellow Catholics in praying for the ministry and leadership of Pope Francis.  We applaud the cardinals for their recognition of the rising energy of the Catholic Church in the global South and the new possibilities and perspectives that may come from that region.

We are encouraged by Pope Francis’ clear commitment to the poor, and to the social justice tradition at the heart of our faith. At the same time, we acknowledge that as archbishop and cardinal the man who is now Pope Francis has made some very harsh and inflammatory statements about lesbian, gay, bisexual, and transgender people. We recognize that sometimes this new job on which he embarks can change the man called to it. We call on our new Pope to recognize that he is now head of a Church that includes a huge number of LGBT people, their families and friends around the world.  We invite him to take the time to learn about our lives, our faith, and our families before he makes any papal pronouncements about us, and we stand ready to enter into dialogue with him at any time.”

I wonder what Courage is saying?

“Well, who wouldn’t want the Bergoglio Folio, a handy little case for your bus pass.”  You have outdone yourself, once again.

 

Totally agree with comments about the HOCHHUTH The Deputy slander and libel against Papa Pacelli. The date was 1968, Papa Pacelli die in 1958. Now they are after Francis because as a 30-something priest he did not stop the slaughter in Argentina.

I did not reject any translation from German on an Austrian Blog- O’Bama told an AUSTRIAN journalist over here in Europe he assumed AUSTRIAN is a language. I said and repeated that as a retired University professor of the Humanities I do not trust Wikipedia and most internet blog-type research nor most contemporary journalism as sources for Truth. Same with most Protestant scholarship and the SSPX crowd for CATHOLIC CHURCH HISTORY and BIBLE SCHOLARSHIP. Plagiarism gets an automatic F in Universities, how will Jesus handle the constant blather about “reformation” Bible study, and journalistic fantasy?.

I saw a good traditionalist analysis which shows pretty convincingly that the real Sr. Lucia was replaced by an imposter around 1960.  The pictures looked pretty convincing.  Why would anybody do that?

“good traditionalist” would that be one that insists that Pope John XX111 disobeyed MARY and refused to consecrate Russia to her, all the while Russia was never really without the Faith and showed that when the USSR fell. Meantime the USA and the West, China and India are promoting abortion, euthanasia same gender unions, destroying the ozone layer and bombing the heck out of the Middle East after a new enemy, “radical Islamist extremists” after the other mythical creature “atheistic Communism” as they kiss rings and beg from RED CHINA, aka the Peoples’ Republic that is out foxing and out buying the FREE MARKET SYSTEM of the totally bankrupt West. Idiot duped US citizens. MORALLY BANKRJUPT also.

@ Lone Thinker…You write as if the former USSR did not and still is doing as many abortions as in the West.  Thank God for that remenant church that continued throughout the atrocities of Lenin, Stalin, et al and that today the lives stronger there. I do not see how you help the mission of the Church by continuing to spread doubt and disunity.

@ Matt B….Your comment is neither answerable nor credible without more substantiation than “a good traditionalis analysis shows pretty convincingly”....rubbish!!! With this statement you are sowing doubt on some very holy and credible members of our Church, beginning with the last two Popes, one of whom is on the fast track to sainthood. I find such loosely made charges almost anathema! Troll elsewhere, we are not buying your trash here!

I agree my references are vague, and in fact I’m only going by my recollections.  But if you are able to get access to any photos of Sr. Lucia from before, say 1957, and compare them to the women who is bopping around in all the photo ops circa JPII, you can see a discernable difference.  Look even at the child Lucia.  She doesn’t look anything like the recent vintage.  Finally, the nun who is depicted as Sr. Lucia in years around 2000-2005 does not seem anywhere like the 90+ years old she would need to be, if Lucia.  Check it yourself.

I wonder what fans of the St. Malachy “prophecy” are going to do?  Is there *any* way to squeeze Pope Francis into being “Peter the Roman”?  There’s no Peter in any of his names.  Wait—his parents came from Italy, that must make him a Roman!!!  So St. Malachy had it right! (or not…. ;-)

@Chris:  Clearly you do not have the clairvoyance to understand the prophecy of St. Malachi.  In fact, it is obvious that he is the Peter the Roman that has been prophesied:

1)  He may not be Roman, but Pope Francis emphasized that he was the Bishop of Rome in his first address.  If that doesn’t make him a Roman, I don’t know what does.

2)  St. Peter was a fisherman.  A seagull stood watch atop the Sistine chimney.  Seagulls eat fish.

3)  St. Peter denied Christ three times.  When people asked Cardinal Bergoglio whether he had anything to do with atrocities during the Dirty War, he denied it.

4)  St. Peter was crucified upside down.  Pope Francis has worn a crucifix in every public appearance.

5)  The Pope chose the name Francis.  St. Francis visited Rome—more than once.  And it is documented that St. Francis visited a Basilica named after….wait for it… St. Peter.  As you can see, it all comes full circle.

End times are comin’!

I feel kind of bad.  I’ve been following this St. Malachi thing for 900 years, and now that it comes down to the finish line: Y2K.

Clearly all faithful Catholics should be praying daily for Pope Francis to help protect him from the evil one.  There’s enough evil being spread far and wide without repeating it here.

For a very interesting take on these issues from an unusual source that the Church should be listening to, but isn’t, have a look at a few recent posts at www.TheseStoneWalls.com.  It is the blog of a wrongly imprisoned priest in New Hampshire.

Interesting, Ryan.  Fr. MacRae wears his website like a child wears his daddy’s shoes.  (NB)

Our holy father is a chosen vessel for the Lord.  But the controversial talk surrounding his ascension is “a tale told by an idiot.”  “Put your trust not in men; trust not in princes.”  Do not make this man shoulder a burden he cannot bear.  He is not God.  In fact, his main value as pope is that he holds no such pretensions.  He is a simple man, a simple priest.


You are allowed, however, to put your trust in God.  The question is, in the fog of the last two generations of faulty catechesis and marred liturgy, will you be able to know him even if you see him?

@Thomas: I yield to your attention to detail, you know your prophecy!  And you put a smile on my face and a chuckle on my heart!

I wonder what will happen when Francis wakes up in the papal apartment and discovers he’s pope.  It will be a little like “Lover Come Back” with Dorothy Day.  He’ll spend the next (last) years of his life experiencing “Fisherman’s Regret.”

The comments here have gone from the sublime to the ridiculous. Unless
the Administrator ( hey Simcha!!!) takes charge and starts getting rid of
the trolls and the other loonies I am outta here…for good!!! Our new and dear Pope Francis deserves better than what is being printed here
under the guise of legitimate commmenting! This is beginning to read like a Chick leaflet!

I’ll take one seagull, thank you very much.  And yes, it was very difficult trying to explain to my protestant coworkers why I was glued to a seagull! Oh what the heck, throw in a folio too.  Do you have free shipping?  Is there a coupon code? Great post, Simcha.  I’m THRILLED with our new pope.

I very much like the spirituality of Pope Francis l. Only one subject disturbs me. Immediatly upon being elected he wanted nothing to do with the ermine cape, the lace alb, the red shoes, the traditional Papal blessing and other like acts. These are not essentials to the Papacy and its his choice. But I have seen thus far that the message he is giving is that there is nothing wrong with being a cafeteria Catholic. I fear the reform of the reforms begun by Bl. John Paul ll and Pope Benedict XVl are now officialy abrogated. It seems that we are now headed back in time, the times of the 60’s and the 70’s, I mean like a pick and choose what we like and don’t like and practice it and force it on others to do the same. Are we headed for another era of change for the mere sake of change. The Holy Father speaks of the Church returning to poverty. I wonder what type of poverty he is talking about. Will he bring the Church buildings and sacred treasures of the Church down to poverty? Or is he talking about the People bringing themselves down to a holy Christlike poverty? I find the former disturbing and the latter praiseworthy. Of course its complete obedience to the Pope, but it does’nt mean we are obligated to be happy with whatever decisions he makes. Ora Pro Pontifice!

It is the poverty of trappings and asking his people not to fly for his inauguration tomorrow but to donate to the poor. St John Chrysostom wrote severely about churches having gold vessels while Christ in the poor was under bridges naked. It is not Judas’s either or but a careful, discerned both and. For me and for the Church as building/institution rather than as BODY OF CHRIST in the vulnerable. He donned the red stole for the papal blessing, he did not come out wearing it. The red shoes were not Prada as reported widely for BXV1 but made by a little old shoemaker for him, symbol of martyrdom. Francis kept his old boots, his choice.

He did use the special stole for the blessing of the crowd, did not wear it on his appearance. The ermine cape and lace alb are for liturgical functions. The red shoes symbolise Peter’s martyrdom, were not Prada as was widely said about BXV1, his were made by a simple Roman shoemaker. Francis asked Argentinians to give money to the poor instead of flying to Rome. This is not an either or but a both and- John Chrysostom wrote a challenging piece for Constantinople pointing out that golden vessels were used for church while Christ’s Body the poor slept under bridges. Judas was either or, prudent discernment is both and

Posted by Matt B on Saturday, Mar 16, 2013 8:54 AM (EDT):

I saw a good traditionalist analysis which shows pretty convincingly that the real Sr. Lucia was replaced by an imposter around 1960.  The pictures looked pretty convincing.  Why would anybody do that?”
***************************************************************
Back in the ‘70’s schismatic traditionalists insisted Pope Paul had been switched with an imposter, too. They also had photos. I used to encounter them in nursing homes when I visited elderly Catholic parishoners.I guess they were recruiting among the infirm.

 

PLEASE stop circulating crud on here. I am trying to get a signal to let ET and a whole rugby team from the Europe Six to get home tonight. Obama’s HS team do be jammin’ da signals;

What I really want to know is: are you the real Kathleen???  I’m beginning to thing you’re a team of librarians with a really detailed and comprehensive database.  “Gars?”

Matt,
You never know with a generic Irish Catholic name like mine…We had 3 in the choir once & two of us also had the same middle name.
Garfish are pretty cool.If my son hadn’t thrown it back in the swamp, it might have been good eating, too.

Kathleen… Georgia… Do you reside at Tara???

Matt,
Not likely, but I’m a fan of Georgia authors, Margaret Mitchell included.Flannery O’Connor’s my favorite.

The tradition of ornate Churches, ornate vestments and sacred vessels all began in the Old Testament. God himself commanded that two golden Angels be cast and placed one on each side of the Holy of Holies,He also commanded two huge bronze lions to be placed on either side of the entrance to his Temple, his House. God commanded the rich sacred vessels, He also commanded the sacred vestments to be used in ancient Liturgical functions. In the sacred vestments, God himself gave the measurments, what they would be made of and how they were to be used. The Christians never gave up these traditions. The Orthodox sacred vestments are more like those used in the days of Our Lord Jesus Christ. All of these things are for the glory and honor of God and not for the one wearing them. The banality of the vestments began after Vatican Council ll. The Council never asked for this. Many of the ordained changed to banal vestments in the name of personal humility. One must humble himself but never must one humble God. St. Catherine of Sienna in her diologue with God was told by Him that His sacred ministers had the responsibility to ornate the Church buildings for his glory and honor. God complained with this statement to St. Catherine concerning the ordained, “My house they humble but their own dwelling places they lavishly furnish” God was not only speaking of their physical dwelling places but also their spiritual interior dwelling places. St. Francis of Assisi took up personal poverty, but rebuilt and built lavish Churches for the Glory and honor of God. His Holiness Pope Emeritus Benedict XVl sought to restore beauty to the Liturgical functions in the worship of Almighty God by reviving the use of beautiful ancient vestments.

Somehow I don’t see you as Scarlett, but rather as Ellen: tending to the sick poor and keeping her wild clan in check.  I’m sure that gar would have cooked up good into soup.

@Traditio, I don’t think you can equate Pope Francis’ decision to part with some traditions to “cafeteria Catholicism”. He professes a love and dedication to the poor. I’m sure he would be highly criticized as hypocritical if he marched around in finery as he professes simplicity and poverty. It’s also possible he just feels uncomfortable with showy displays, and wishes to live a spirit of poverty and simplicity. I believe this is the example he wants to show us.  Traditional trappings - Ermine, capes, red shoes, traditional blessings - these are just things. He is not saying they are not good things, but maybe in his case, in this time, there is a higher good that he wants to teach us. What is the best message he can send, right now, with all the eyes of the world on him?

Traditio - it’s amazing how you can conclude so much about Francis’ papacy after just a week.  Your considerations are as elaborately decked out as the OT temple.  I wonder what you will say after Francis actually does something!

I have a question.  Does anybody know if Pope Francis mandated that the churches of Argentina be stripped down, or that the new ones be created with out lavish ornamentation?

I will wager the guess that he did not.

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About Simcha Fisher

Simcha Fisher
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Simcha Fisher writes for several publications. She lives in New Hampshire with her husband and nine children. Without supernatural aid, she would hardly be a human being.