“What a blessing that we are encountering Jesus without the trappings!” says the man who built a $250 million ugly cathedral monument to himself.

1. What does the Pope’s manner of dress at a meeting have to do with liturgical practice.
2. Beauty and ornamentation are not always the same thong, nor are they perceived the same by everyone.
3. Pope Francis has not even said his inaugural Mass and yet he is being, functionally, being publically rebuked by laypeople with soap boxes.

While I find these quite funny, and agree broadly with your ideas, I would like to seize upon the connection between humility and beauty. They aren’t exclusive, in fact they are complementary. The humility Pope Benedict displayed amidst the treasures of liturgical vestments etc, will be different than the humility of Pope Francis. I only hope that Pope Francis’ more overt humility is connected to a more overt sense of beauty.

.................

He sure gets brave now that Benedict XVI is resigned and the new Pope doesn’t share the old’s preferences…did he criticize these things when Benedict was Pope?  If not….coward.  He does know that Benedict is still alive, right?

Your problem is clear in your first pithy retort - you think it is possible to see ugliness in a baby.

Not even a veiled slap in the face to Pope Emeritus Benedict. But we’ve come to expect behavior unbecoming a Bishop from Cardinal Mahony.

Hear, hear. And indeed : if he had criticized Benedict while he was still Pope, he would have been wrong but coherent and somewhat courageous. Waiting until after Benedict has resigned is just cowardly.

Im confused…its Bad to criticize the Pope Emeritus but its ok to implicitly criticize the new Pope.  Because That Is the feeling i am getting from thèse comment.

Ryan:

He’s a CARDINAL of the CHURCH.

Got it?

He’s publicly dissing Pope Emeritus Benedict XVI. 

FAIL.

The way the Pope dresses, does not indicate any changes in the Liturgy. Humility is being in Persona Christi…in the person of Christ in the most beautiful and Glorious Liturgies there is on earth, this side of Heaven. Our Churches and Liturgies aught to be a representation of that of Heaven. Gosh, I love the Old Latin Mass!

As someone with .50 cents to his name, I agree with Archbold. The poor should not be given a subpar liturgy . It’s bourgeois to believe only the wealthy should have access to the most beautiful shrines, altars, and schola cantorum. Mahony is wrong.

I notice that His Eminence is depicted in his own prelatial regalia. How about practicing what you preach?

Well, it is OK to faithfully, respectfully and humbly criticize the Pope. The Pope is Peter, not Christ. Paul recognized the primacy of Peter but respectfully criticized some of his choices.

And it is cowardly to criticize a 86-year-old man who a 0 power or authority over you, while you shut your mouth for 8 years because you were afraid.

Elaine:

I fully understand that.
Cardinal Mahoney should have chosen his words better, but that does not mean that the rest of us get to sling backdoor insults at the new Pope.

To disagree is not to insult.

Is it respectful, humble, or faithful to criticize the Pope as being:
-dressed in rags
-rejecting beauty
-having a mass comparable to an ugly baby

Given his track record, I’m surprised that Cardinal Mahoney expresses public opinions about anything. Humility for him should suggest silence. No?

ryan
That is silly.  These are metaphors and analogies about an understanding of liturgy.  If you disagree, fine.  But don’t feign the vapors over imaginary insults.

Cardinal Mahoney might want to keep his cheesy cheering and anti-Benedict snipes on the down low. Our new Holy Father is clearly not super interested in displaying the trappings of power, but he is an Argentine, after all, and probably knows very well how to USE power.
While his personal piety seems to thrill the worst elements (yes, I do mean Cardinal Mahoney) his orthodoxy is well known and quite solid.
Traditionalists wont like his shoes, but I’m guessing Mahoney and his ilk won’t like what’s coming.
God bless Pope Francis!

Clearly, Pope Francis was not referring to Mahony when he said “Old age is a time of peace and prayer. We need to hand on this wisdom to the young.”

Pope Francis’ austere and lowly ways is not an indictment of the pompous ways of the popes in the past. It is his light, his inspiration; others had their reasons, their lights. Each will be judged in that private tribunal of God and the person called conscience.

It is possible to have a simple, beautiful liturgy without “trappings,” but beautiful liturgies as always humble liturgies, and humble liturgies always follow liturgical norms. To impose anything else on the liturgy is pride.

Think Pope Francis as a simpler approach and that so far seems to be fine. Conflation of simplicity with liturgical heteropraxis derives from a false dichotomy between faithful-people-who-move-freely-with-the-Spirit-and-aren’t-bound-by-Church-law and faithless-pharisees-who-try-to-impose-Church-law-on-free-spirits.

The Church’s law, and related things such as liturgical norms, give TRUE freedom. Period. I suspect Pope Francis adheres to that view.

What ‘trappings’ do the liturgical dancers at the Religious Education conference in Anaheim wear every year?

Please be quiet and let The Holy Spirit take over. All clergy please keep your personal thoughts to self for want of disrespect and embarrassment. The devil is within our church, it is evident .

I like encountering Jesus with all the trappings.

I have to say that the more trappings, the more I see Jesus.  The less trappings, the more I see the personality of the human being under them. This is such an important point.  Most “Oooh let me get rid of the trappings” priests I have encountered have been raving egomaniacs who want the spotlight on them, not on Christ.  NOT SAYING THIS ABOUT THE POPE.  But maybe about Cardinal Mahony.

Mr. Archbold is not insulting Pope Francis.  Mahoney just insulted the Emeritus Bishop of Rome, and Mr. Archbold is not letting him get away with it. 

Thanks you, Mr. Archbhold, for responding!  I could not believe the hypocritical gall of the man for slamming our emeritus Holy Father, and on Twitter, too!  How tasteless and scandalous!  This is the cardinal that sank $187 million into a hideous cathedral centered entirely around himself and his throne.  A humble person would have built a beautiful cathedral for his people, not a “Taj Majoney.”  And, after he has dragged the Church through the mud with his covering for criminal abusers, how dare he crow because the pope no longer wears red shoes?  (What does it matter what color the pope’s shoes are anyways?  Black or red, they cost the same.)  If there is justice in the world, Cardinal Mahoney will soon be able to show his humility by trading his cardinal’s garb for an orange costume.

It is sometimes incredible to see just how much pride blinds someone to the truth.

“Traditionalists wont like his shoes, but I’m guessing Mahoney and his ilk won’t like what’s coming.  God bless Pope Francis!”

Oh, man.  This is the best comment yet!  One of the more annoying tendencies I’m seeing is this willingness to pit Pope Francis against Pope Benedict, when Pope Francis has already and always made clear that any preferential option for the poor and “social justice” must always profess Christ Crucified.  There is some wonderful continuity between Francis and Benedict here, and if we don’t see this, we’re going to miss some very real opportunities to evangelize.

Micah Murphy is correct, in that it is possible to have a simple, beautiful liturgy without “trappings,” by which I guess the way to put it is that you don’t have wear a lace alb under your chasubule, but that doesn’t mean that said chasubule should look like a table cloth made into a poncho or the altar like a picnic table.  The Wedding Feast of the Lamb is the Sacrifice of Calvary;  it is a banquet, but not a dinner party, and it’s certainly not a picnic.  Someone referring to what music is appropriate at Mass had a rule of thumb which likely applies here also:  “if you wouldn’t do it at the foot of the Cross, don’t do it at Holy Mass.”

And Richard Aleman is spot on about thinking that beautiful shrines, beautiful liturgies, and beautiful vestments only being for the wealthy is not only bourgeois, but disingenuous and insulting, as well as spiritually impoverishing (but that’s typical of elitist anti-elitism, anyway, which is its own form of snobbery and lack of humility).  In one of Elizabeth Scalia’s pieces, she recalled a Franciscan friend telling her:  “if you want to show the poor that they are as important and loved as everyone else, you’re not going to show them that by making the world uglier for them.”  Dorothy Day said something similar.  Pope Francis may not have the same liturgical style of Pope Benedict, but I’m not sure that he “hates” the Latin Mass, either;  Fr. Fessio was recently telling Mark Brumley that he doesn’t think Pope Francis will roll back Summorum Pontificum.  So there’s no reason to freak out.  His pontificate is only days old.  But one thing is already starkly clear:  given that Pope Francis doesn’t divorce the spiritual works of mercy from the corporal works of mercy, some quarters are definitely not going to like what’s coming.  God bless Pope Francis!

Cardinal Mahoney’s comments are not only insulting to those of what he “imagines to be his Rite” and those of us from other Rites.  This is a disgusting affront to the faith of millions of Orthodox Christians and Greek Catholics who use “the trappings” of the liturgy and faith to show our honor for the glory of God.  He lives in the mindset that only those things which come from HIS BRAIN and HIS LITURGICAL “Ideals” are better than and more salutary and worthy of contact with God than all of Jewish and Christian faith and worship.  When you immerse yourself in the ugliness of your own pride you soon begin to paint all around you with that same putrid ink. We have not suffered years of bitterness and ugliness for nothing.  In the worlds of Dostoyevsky, “Beauty will save the world!” The beauty of faith, tradition and love of God.

Poor Archbp. Gomez. Just when he was starting to gain some leverage.  Perhaps the new Pope can find an assignment for Cdl Mahony in Rome so we can finally be rid of him in LA.

Please pray for Archbp Gomez.

Cdl Mahoney needs to take a long silent retreat until called home by the Lord.

Good news everyone ! Cardinal Mahony has revealed confidential informations about the Conclave (namely who he voted for in each 5 turns), in violation of his vow of secrecy, and is therefore excommunicated latæ sententiæ : http://cardinalrogermahonyblogsla.blogspot.fr/2013/03/st-joseph-patron-of-church.html : “When I entered the Conclave, and our first ballot took place, I was thinking of three possible candidates. However, when I opened the small ballot to place a name there, no hesitation. It felt as if I were not writing the name, but that some power had taken my pen in hand and was doing the writing for me. Within seconds the name was on the first and the subsequent ballots”.

I am dead serious. Unless the Supreme Pontiff explicitly authorized him to reveal this information, Cardinal Mahony is excommunicated latae sententiae.

Wait a minute that’s no good news at all. That’s horrible.

To the extent that Pope Francis is a visible example of simplicity and humility in his personal life, I think it’s highly commendable. We should strive to emulate him. We should also make a deliberate distinction between his personal life and his liturgical practices.

My own preference is for a more ornate, rich liturgy that engages my senses and focuses my attention of the heavenly aspect of the Mass. I know that some don’t share that preference. I can’t quarrel with those who find the ‘trappings’ genuinely distracting, but there seems to be so much false humility and prideful condescension in many of those who reject the rich tapestry of our liturgical tradition.

you certainly made your archdiocese poor both spiritually and financially mahoney. you have lost all rights to speak about anything. Go away.

More to the key point, humility is not refusing beauty or any of God’s gifts, but receiving all gifts including beauty, as gifts from God.  Humility in the mass is how we present ourselves to the Lord, with awe, and thus we kneel, be we kings or shepherds.  The mass itself must be beautiful, for Christ is with us and Christ is beautiful.  But there are people who confuse humility with scarcity or sparseness.  The sunset is not sparse, nor are the flowers of the field.  They are beauty exploding all over the world, but they do not pretend to be something other than they are…only humanity in its brokeness, in its vanity makes a thing ugly and thinks themselves humble for doing so.  Deliberate ugliness is always the mark of evil.  The first thing the Taliban did was destroy the 150 feet tall Buddah statues…it was an act of ugliness, as was the crucifixion.

RE: discredited Cardinal Mahoney… He should have stayed home.  The best thing that could happen is everyone IGNORING phoney-mahoney’s tweets and other rantings. Don’t read his blog, and don’t respond to any of his chats or tweets.  He no longer deserves to be in the spotlight: He blew it, and he alone is to blame.

Humility is not showing your face in public again after you’ve cost your diocese tens of millions of dollars in damages for covering up child sex abuse.  Perhaps Pope Francis can find a monastery cell for Cardinal Mahoney…something that we could all benefit from: I really don’t want to read or hear anything this man has to say.

“As someone with .50 cents to his name, I agree with Archbold. The poor should not be given a subpar liturgy . It’s bourgeois to believe only the wealthy should have access to the most beautiful shrines, altars, and schola cantorum. Mahony is wrong.”

AMEN! Thanks, Richard!

well i guess since mahoney had to give up his NGO he has nothing to do but tweet

I wish Pope Francis has the good sense to send you packing to a monastery for your own good. You are such a disgrace to the Church. You are a despicable, pathetic human being full of meanness & arrogance. May God have pity on you!

Cardinal Mahony’s blog lets one send his posts to someone else. I could find no provision for posting comments. Yes, I am one of the many who pray that Cardinal Mahony would have the grace to quietly resign after the great damage he has done to the Church—as the blog “California Catholic” amply documents. Let us pray he soon embarks on a peaceful, quiet, and private retirement.

Do we really need this? There is beauty in simplicity as well as in ornamentation. Both serve the Glory of God. We would do well not to criticize either Benedict or Francis, but appreciate what each brings/has brought to the Church. I should think we hope each Pope brings something new to the office. Never mind what Cardinal Dolan tweets, we are none of us perfect, he can answer for himself.

I think that Francis’ consistency is what’s important.  He’s doing what he’s always done, and clearly his penchant for plainness didn’t dissuade the other cardinals from voting for him (whatever their own approaches).  He comes from a different background and has endured social and political situations that too many of the rad/trad types could never imagine. 

I’m reading “The Spirit of the Liturgy” right now, and I’m gaining a real appreciation for the liturgy itself.  Liturgy means “work”, and for 8 years we’ve had a pope who emphasized that work which is the source and summit of our faith.  But “mass” comes from the Latin word for “send”: we are sent out from our Eucharist to evangelize.  I think we have a pope who will extend our work from our source to the world.  That is my prayer.

“3. Pope Francis has not even said his inaugural Mass and yet he is being, functionally, being publically rebuked by laypeople with soap boxes.”

People here don’t seem to be rebuking the Pope, but rather, Cardinal Mahony.

Wasn’t there something….? Like getting the board out of someone’s eye before pointing out the splinter in another’s?  We would do well to remember! Me too!

Libby, it’s a free country, and we can post our views. Is there a beam in your eye? Why do you write: “Never mind what Cardinal Dolan tweets, we are none of us perfect, he can answer for himself.”

This NCR article is about Cardinal Mahony. He is a source of public scandal and has been reprimanded by the current Archbishop of LA.

High or low, each kind of liturgy has its place, i suppose.  Now, granted I am a sick and broken soul, but my personal experience is that whenever I’ve come in contact with the highly prescriptive, golden-guilded, pomp-and-circumstance version of the church, i’ve felt like I’d come to the wrong place.  Like I showed up for a party where everyone else knew the secret password and I was just some poor, ignorant shlump who didn’t even know how to tie his tie the right way.  Over the last few years, I’ve re-discovered God and I’ve got to say that it’s helped every aspect of my faith to see that he really is my Abba - approachable, intimate, interested in me…  and these are things that I get very much from the humblest of masses, as celebrated in small country churches or out on training exercises when I was in the service.
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I don’t want to speak out against the High Mass or take that away from anyone that it serves.  But so too should other people be careful about throwing away the merits of a “more simple mass.”  (After all, man was not made for the sabbath… rather, it was the sabbath that was made for man.)

Could somebody please hack old Hollywood’s Twitter account and change the password? Oops! Would that be a sin? It’s time for an intervention, as in “give me the keys, you are too drunk on your own fumes to blog”. Could Gomez order him to stop?  Somebody help!!!  Way to call it, Pat. This was hilarious. Please, Lord, let someone show this to Mahoney.

Not sure how I mistook Dolan for Mahoney…you are right! But won’t God take care of Mahoney in his time?

Re: dan h. Many people feel the same way you do. What you speak of is an appreciation for noble simplicity, which is a form of beautiful, and it’s given a place in the liturgical spectrum too. You are not saying you enjoy ugliness, just noble simplicity, and that is great! There is ample room in the Church for both, but please, no room for downright ugliness (and on purpose, too! See the Cathedral Mahoney built.)
The cowardice of Mahoney tweeting this stuff just as Grand-papa Benedict has promised silence and prayer is beyond belief.

Oh, and another thing, the red shoes are a powerful and very old symbol that the Church is rooted in the blood of the martyrs. It isn’t personal style. It means something. Why else would a grown man wear red shoes?

Mahony!  Is he still around?  If yes, why?

I have a minor quibble addressed to everyone, bloggers and readers alike.  When referring to the Holy Liturgy, please use Mass with a capital M to differentiate it from such uses as mass destruction, mass appeal, mass hysteria, etc., etc.  That way, we elevate the word to a higher level.  Thanks.

Mr. Archbold- spot on! Thank you for standing up for the Holy Father (Emeritus and current holder of the Throne of St Peter)

fiatlux,
well said.  I would never advocate an “ugly Mass,” but I don’t know if that’s saying anything… i don’t know of anyone who would wittingly do just that.

It is anathema to Catholicism to believe that Goodness and Truth can be severed from Beauty. St. Francis would have been scandalized by the protestant idea that one does not owe God the effort of striving for Beauty in the liturgy. Besides, the “Low Church” approach is usually quite expensive. Wrecovrations weren’t cheap; neither are “simple” crucifizes, voodo salad bowl thuribles, and all of the quite elaborate trappings of the “Low” liturgy.

The pious bows and prayers of the Extrordinary Form do not cost more; neither does Gregorian Chant, an ad orientem altar, and all of the signs of “High Catholic” liturgy. All of that can be and has been accomplished in very poor parishes in Africa. Mahony and his ilk aren’t helping the poor with their liturgies. Not one single poor person is helped by the decision to wear one garment rather than another.

I am sure His Eminence is being obsequious?

I am withholding judgment for at least 6 months—not that my judgment will be the final word anyway. But I wish to see Pope Francis in action, not just in his first 4-5 days but overall. We cannot possibly tell what kind of Holy Father he will be just yet. We simply do not know.

In any case he is the Vicar of Christ and we as Catholics have pledged our love, loyalty, and daily prayers for him. We can respectfully disagree on non-dogmatic issues, but then we, too, must remain non-dogmatic as well. And mostly we should, as I mentioned, pray—daily—for his health, safety, and wisdom in leading the Church, just as we hopefully did for Pope Emeritus Benedict and for Blessed John Paul II. He just may know something we do not. The Holy Father I mean, not Mahoney. He (Mahoney) should consider silence on the matter for a number of reasons, particularly during this fresh beginning of Holy Father Francis’ Papacy.

Lastly we confuse worship with pageantry very easily. Both have a valid place in our Church, and yet neither are identical. Even Jesus was quite clear on this during several occasions within His ministry. He loved the Temple and often taught there but knew and proclaimed that the real temple was within our hearts. He told us to worship “in spirit and in truth.” And onward. Simple forms of worship are not “ugly” either. But we can be if we are not careful here.

I am not against pageantry. Nor beauty. Nor art. But let us not confuse those things with “better worship” if our hearts are just as dirty, impure, or unloving as ever. Worship that is in God and formed by God changes us. If we let it. And that can happen with or without ceremony.

Lastly I do not expect Pope Francis will be selling off the Vatican art collection anytime soon. But I do suspect he will bring something new to the table, as each Holy Father has done, and we should be looking for it. And welcoming it and him. Habemus Papam.

‘Humble’ liturgies are like ugly babies, you pretend to admire them to spare your host’s feelings. But the baby, while a miracle, is still ugly. I do very much agree with the writer on this particular point especially—I think we must define humble however. If the new Holy Father is breaking with small “t” tradition, that is his privilege. If he is systematically destroying the beauty of the Liturgy, that is another story. It is just too early to know whether he is doing the latter. I seriously doubt it personally. But style and substance can be two different things. That is all I am saying here.

Richard,
My comment is not and cannot be directed at the Pope, since he hasn’t really done anything yet.

My comment is directed at Cardinal Mahony, whose faux ‘humble’ liturgies are anything but and definitely ugly babies.

  Cardinal Mahoney is a big hypocrite if there ever was one- there is is applauding the Pope Emeritus on his birthday when he visited our country in 2008 (the Christ is our Hope) and then 5 years later sends out snide Tweets about his style of dress. Well all I can say to the former Cardinal of LA is this. You are not in the same league as Benedict XVI now and you never will be. We all know that he did what he could as far as abuse went meeting with the victims and so forth but we also know that unlike the Pope Emeritus the Cardinal was up to his eyeballs in his scandal ridden diocese and he knows it. Benedict may have resigned because of clerics like him who he knew hated him and what he was trying to do. I would not want to be in his shoes when his Particular Judgment comes. God Help Him.

Pat I agree and was not meaning to imply that your comments were directed at the Holy Father. I would apologize if it came out otherwise. However I am glad you clarified your points as well. As you said, and I surely agree, we cannot possibly know what Pope Francis will do, liturgy-wise, until he in fact has been in his office long enough to actually do something. And I also surely believe that Mahony needs to be silenced, not just in matters of Liturgy but in Church affairs period. He has no more say in these matters as far as I would be concerned. And just perhaps he is playing up to the new Pontiff to protect his own posterior. Obviously I do not know that for sure. But it seems that way to me.

Thank you, Patrick. Cardinal Mahoney should google “the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass” and do some reading. He might learn something.

I think you could have handled it sufficiently by referring the good cardinal to the clip from “Master of Disguise” where Dana Carvey goes “This is what you’re doing…This is what I want you to do. Any questions?”

A Cardinal in the Catholic Church is paid about $250,000 per year.  Why did other people have to buy him shoes?  Humility is merely being subject to the truth. It has nothing to do with ones choice of economic circumstance.  It is not humble to have your friends buy your shoes when you can afford them yourself.  God bless our new Holy Father. I am very grateful to God for his pontificate. However, there is nothing humble about earning enough money to take care of yourself yet depending on the charity of others for your needs.

I feel sorry for the poor humble South American shoemaker shown on EWTN, who will no longer be able to make shoes for the Pope. 

Mahoney is simply repulsive.

Cardinal Mahony is an arrogant ass.  He needs to go away, keep his mouth shut, and stop tweeting.  No one cares what he has to say, no one wants to hear his opinion.  Get some humility, Cardinal.

I’m confused. I thought Cardinal Mahoney was basically “fired” from his official position. Was he actually voting in the conclave?

I find it both amusing and pathetic that the craven defender of child molesters, Mahony, would extol the virtues of humility when he has habitually had his face displayed on a Jumbotron for his faithful adorers at what passes for a “Mass” at his vile ‘cathedral’

Wow. What bravery you all show, taking on Cardinal Mahoney, over the liturgy no less. Maybe Pat could post some slam-dunk, patriotic retorts to something Sean Penn said about the role of the US in the world and then we could all have a good two minutes hate over that. Anything Mahoney says these days is largely moot. You need a better antagonist here.
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Kudos to Jay Heatherman for being honest enough to state masses he doesn’t like probably aren’t real masses. It seems he’s not alone except in his forthrightness. Sometimes you just gotta tell that ugly baby what an abomination it is to its face, amiright?

Cardinal Mahoney, please stop it - you are causing me to sin.  His comments don’t surprise me - look he did Mother Angelica.  He wouldn’t stop.  In the end, God turned it into good because EWTN is now in the hands of the laity who will keep it Catholic.  It’s bishops like Mahoney that give the church a bad name.

For those saying, “Why didn’t Francis say anything before about liturgy?” it isn’t that he was cowardly, but that it was simply not a priority with him. There was no point. But given that this is a Cardinal who had Bishop Williamson and the SSPX seminary in his backyard, it is not surprising in the slightest that he would want to separate himself from what he might see as that worldview and liturgical view. Since SSPX has now expelled Williamson (and he was part of them), I can certainly imagine feeling the need over the years to distance yourself and your diocese from anything associated with him - liturgy included.

Wow. What bravery you all show, taking on Cardinal Mahoney, over the liturgy no less.

I assume that is meant to be sarcastic, but I should point out that I would have no problem telling Cdl. Mahony to his face the truth about his hideous cathedral and his moonbat liturgies featuring women flitting about like wood fairies.

Mahony is a continuing embarrassment to the American Church. It is Cardinals like him that People have in mind when they call for reform in the church.

At least Cardinals Bernard Law and Justin Rigali have the decency to lie low After disgracing themselves and their positions.

@Scott W. - Did Mahoney ever respond to the letters you sent complaining about his taste in architecture and liturgical abuse? Did the chancery at least send you a form letter thanking you for your concern?
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With the recent advent of the postal system, we don’t have to 1) wait until we’re face to face with Mahoney or 2) spill our vitriol upon the ground in blog comboxes in hopes that Mahoney will read them and be converted. You can let him know exactly how you feel, directly, thus avoiding all potential problems with detraction, gossip, and slander:
Archdiocese of Los Angeles
ATTN: Cardinal Mahoney
3424 Wilshire Blvd.
Los Angeles, CA 90010-2241
easy.peasy.pie.

You can let him know exactly how you feel, directly, thus avoiding all potential problems with detraction, gossip, and slander.

Actually there is no problem at all with any of the above because all these things are matters of public record. Cdl. didn’t build his monstrosity in some undisclosed location in the Arctic. His prancing wood fairies are not part of some secret Masonic lodge rights that no one else is privvy to.

But since you concede that it is liturgical abuse, I consider my work done here.

I’m disappointed to see a Cardinal, or any prelate, speak like this.  Read these horrible tweets carefully and you read into a mind of someone who has his own agenda.  Why even tweet such nonsense than to serve himself or stir up needless and mindless controversy (and I don’t endorse the tweets back to this pitiful man).  I am not encouraged when I see a Cardinal behave in churlish ways especially one, who while commenting on Liturgy and Papal attire, lived a comfortably adorned existence in LA.  This was not necessary no matter what the Cardinal’s view may be.  Simple sophomoric emotive drivel—-probably as was the same during his tenure in LA.  Very sad.

John Paul has come to be called “the Great” by those in a young generation that needed his unique words, encouragement and touch.

Already people are referring to Benedict as “the Beloved.”  He has rescued many of us in the Vatican II generation, the generation before John Paul’s, the silent, suffering Novus Ordo generation that had our heritage stolen, and then blessedly return by Benedict the Beloved.

“Benedict the Beloved”?  I’m liking the sound of that!

I wish we would put down the bottle of hootch and take it easy on all this “the Great” and “the Beloved” stuff. It makes us look like degraded slaves of the age to future generations. We might as well call him “Benedict the Awesomesauce” and be done with it.

beauty is in the eye of the beholder.  which is more important, the spirit of the law or the letter of the law?  why should a person believe that catering to a few thousand people who know, speak and write latin is more important than reaching out to the over six billion people who do not know, speak and write latin?

aare cardinals of the Church really paid $250,000 annually?  i had never heard that before.

Here’s what I have a problem with: people assuming that Pope Francis’ liturgical “simplicity” is intended as a sign that he has “liberal” leanings.  The tweets from Cardinal Mahony make it seem like Pope Francis is somehow aligned or in step with him, while I’m inclined to believe the opposite is true.  Pope Francis was ordained in 1969.  This could mean that he wasn’t as fully catechized in the meaning behind all the beautiful pageantry of our church.  Perhaps Pope Francis is still figuring out how to be pope, and the contrast of being Supreme Pontiff with his previous lifestyle is a little overwhelming for a man of 76.  I’m just going to pray for him.  I’m going to pray that God will use him to accomplish His perfect will for His bride.

Somebody from the Diocese of LA needs to cancel Mahony’s cell phone account.

why should a person believe that catering to a few thousand people who know, speak and write latin is more important than reaching out to the over six billion people who do not know, speak and write latin?

This is a false dichotomy. Despite what many of the more traditionalists in panic mode had said, Pope Francis has not given any indication that he is going to start a liturgy war. But Latin is the official language of the Church, is easy to learn, and the Latin liturgy is our patrimony that would be a crime to lose.

latin is a small part of our patrimony without doubt.  its practical value should be a subject of discussion.  there are both pros and cons in a discussion concerning the place of latin in the Church.

I will die in and for Latin Mass with the greatest of joy and love.  What a dazzling, remarkable privilege we enjoy in possessing the Tridentine Mass which is lofty, beautiful and majestic! You speak of things practical so I can not believe you have ever been to heaven on earth!

What a dazzling, remarkable privilege we enjoy in possessing the Tridentine Mass which is lofty, beautiful and majestic! You speak of things practical so I can not believe you have ever been present when heaven met earth!

csandkc - thank you for your excellent comment!

Thank you Patrick for being on Mike’s show. I support you all the way! Plain is Protestant.

There was another great article yesterday from National Catholic Register about Pope Emeritus Benedict XVl. Pope Benedict is praised for his love of the Liturgy and the importance of beauty in the Liturgy. He is praised with making the Church understand what the Council Fathers really asked for in the reform of the Liturgy. How His Holiness deplored all the innovations and misinterpretations of the reform of the Liturgy after the Council. The article was a great one. It should be placed in the blog area so that one can read and comment on this subject.

@Thibaud

According the Ed Peters, he would disagree with your assessment that Mahony is excommunicated:

http://canonlawblog.wordpress.com/2013/03/19/some-thoughts-on-conclave-leaks/

Pope Francis’ appearance is that of a holy man , not trying to rival any monarchs.
The priest who celebrates Mass does not need elaborate clothes which only serve to distract.
What did Jesus wear?  What did Peter wear. How did we get so far away from that simple, true beauty?

Pat Archbold: ” ... liturgies in which the beautiful is replaced with the stripped down or plain as if plain is superior when it comes to the worship of God.”
It seems our author dare speak for God. Perhaps God can decide for god’s self the manner in which God wishes to be worshipped. Perhaps our author should worry more about the sincerity of the hearts of those who worship God rather than the outward form in which that worship is expressed.

Claude Javier, The elaborate vestments used in the true worship of God were commaded by God himself in the Old Testament. In the days when God, Jesus himself walked the earth elaborate vestments were used in the divine public worship of God. Jesus Christ only condemned those priests who “made their philanthraphies wider in order to receive praise from the people”.It is important to note that according to Church historians everything from the sacred vestments, sacred vessels and the Church building are of Ancient Jewish origin. The Apostles never abandoned what God had commanded concerning what is used for the worship of God. It is evident by the ancient vesments, vessels, Churches of the Latin Rite and those of the Eastern Rite. The Christian Churches are a continuation of the fullfillment of the ancient prophecies. All the Regalia used by Priests in liturgical worship is for the Glory and Honor of God for the purpose of making us realize in our flesh the grandness of the Most Holy Triune God. “Lex orandi, Lex credendi” is the old saying. If we worship God with banality, we will look upon God with a banal vision. If we worship God with splendor, we will look upon God in his grandness. I hold to the position of, Humble ourselves, lets not humble God.

Bob: re “I am not encouraged when I see a Cardinal behave in churlish ways”
Churlish is as churlish does… the word derives from karel Old Norse for “knave” which in some tongues derived via Anglo-Saxon conquest became associated with immature masculinity. However in many languages (e.g. Lithuanian karalius, Czech kral, Polish krol) the same root means “regal” the mature full development of virtuous masculinity. Think Charlemagne. Think Karol Wojtyla. Think Charles Chaput.

The difference? Depends on your vantage point I suppose, from the foot of the cross with Mary, sorrowfully radiating fatherhood, most of these comments come across as uncharitably churlish as those they claim to decry. Please during Holy Week ponder these things in (your) heart. Acompañar nuestro nuevo Santo Padre Francisco, embrace humility as the preeminent chivalric virtue.
Stop looking backwards like Lot’s wife:
http://www.canvasreplicas.com/images/Sodom and Gomorrah Henry Ossawa Tanner.jpg
or suffer her fate, and become the pillar Jesus is scourged at on Good Friday.

| Post held, abbreviated URL help? |
Bob: re “I am not encouraged when I see a Cardinal behave in churlish ways”
Churlish is as churlish does… the word derives from karel Old Norse for “knave” which in some tongues derived via Anglo-Saxon conquest became associated with immature masculinity. However in many languages (e.g. Lithuanian karalius, Czech kral, Polish krol) the same root means “regal” the mature full development of virtuous masculinity. Think Charlemagne. Think Karol Wojtyla. Think Charles Chaput.

The difference? Depends on your vantage point I suppose, from the foot of the cross with Mary, sorrowfully radiating fatherhood, most of these comments come across as uncharitably churlish as those they claim to decry. Please during Holy Week ponder these things in (your) heart. Acompañar nuestro nuevo Santo Padre Francisco, embrace humility as the preeminent chivalric virtue.
Stop looking backwards like Lot’s wife:
TinyURL.com/Ossawa-Tanner-sodom-gomorrah
or suffer her fate, and become the pillar Jesus is scourged at on Good Friday.

Bob: re “I am not encouraged when I see a Cardinal behave in churlish ways”
Churlish is as churlish does… the word derives from karel Old Norse for “knave” which in some tongues derived via Anglo-Saxon conquest became associated with immature masculinity. However in many languages (e.g. Lithuanian karalius, Czech kral, Polish krol) the same root means “regal” the mature full development of virtuous masculinity. Think Charlemagne. Think Karol Wojtyla. Think Charles Chaput.

The difference? Depends on your vantage point I suppose, from the foot of the cross with Mary, sorrowfully radiating fatherhood, most of these comments come across as uncharitably churlish as those they claim to decry. Please during Holy Week ponder these things in (your) heart. Acompañar nuestro nuevo Santo Padre Francisco, embrace humility as the preeminent chivalric virtue.
Stop looking backwards like Lot’s wife:
[for URL, Google Henry Ossawa Tanner’s oil painting of Sodom and Gommorah]
or suffer her fate, and become the pillar Jesus is scourged at on Good Friday.

Pls. Moderator I’ve tried three times to post my remarks and been rejected as spam every time. Would you be so kind as to check your spam filter intray and release one of them for the edification of your readers? If not, so be it. Jesu ufam tobie.

Bueatiful tweets!

It is difficult to listen to Cardinal Mahony’s comments about simplicity and humility.  Pope Francis lived simply as a priest and as a cardinal.  Cardinal Mahony not only built a Cathedral for over $200 million dollars but included in that project a very large Rectory with a large and expensive suite for himself.  After he decided to leave that Rectory, he was offered a home that had been given the his boyhood parish.  He spent large amounts of money that he billed to the Archdiocese to have the home completely remodelled so it would be to his liking.  Pope Francis has lived in simplicity all his life.  Cardinal Mahony never has and still doesn’t.

Carl, What you say about Cardinal Mahony reminds me of what God said to St. Catherine of Sienna concerning his Houses of worship, “My house they humble, but their own dwelling places they lavishly furnish”. Pope Francis speaks of Humility which is why he says he chose the name of Francis. St Francis of Assisi wore his Habit until it was falling apart. But when it came to the House of God he saw to it that they were lavishly furnished. It is good that Pope Francis calls upon us to humble ourselves in imitation of Christ. But it seems he is also humbling God with his 70’s style innovations in the Liturgical celebrations. In the beginning of Lent God tells us in scripture, “Rent your Hearts not your garments”. It seems the Pope is renting the Liturgical beauty of the Church in the name of humility. This is something that St. Francis of Assisi detested in his days.

Whatever would we do without WORDS?