Well said, Matthew!  I’ve been in several Facebook discussions with people who confuse central planning with working for the common good and confuse government social programs with charity.  You have put it better than I have managed to do, so far.

The Pope sees something more clearly than the right does: we no longer HAVE a ‘free’ market in this country. We have a plutonomy…an economy where wealth is becoming more and more concentrated in a select few. The conservative economist Nouriel Roubini has speculated that capitalism may wind up destroying itself because of this wealth transfer from the middle class to the wealthy. Those of us who ARE capitalists (including the Pope) know that this placing of profits before people DESTROYS capitalism, regardless of what the myth pushers at NRO would have us believe.

I’m not a fan of yours, and I don’t agree that the Pope is pro-capitalist per se (my own reading of this Pope is that he is, like many Europeans, an advocate of regulating capitalism rather than either the free market or state ownership), but you make fair points here.

I think it’s also worth remembering that in Europe we are further Left, generally speaking, than America is, and trying to map the Pope on an American political spectrum may not be the proper context for his economic thinking.

My guess is Apple’s Chinese employees would not only have liked to have heard Benedict’s words but have Apple follow them.

What Epstein and Stuttaford seem to have also left out is that the Pope said that there must be “ethics” in the marketplace, meaning that you just can’t have “unbridled” Capitalism. Profit is necessary, but not at any “cost” (no pun intended). The end does not justify the means. “Leave the market alone, it will take care of itself,” is a common phase echoed by Capitalists and free market advocates. Yet, the market only functions based on what we do. A Catholic radio host, Dennis O’Donovan or “Religion, Politics, and the Culture” in Miami, FL (find him on Facebook or internet: www.rpconradio.com) says that “the market has no conscience. It has the conscience that we give it.”
I believe that if you treat your workers well, you will get more profit because they will be happy to produce more because work is necessary for man. John Paul II said that “work is for man, not man for work.” And at the core of every economic system is the human being, which is what Benedict was saying. At the heart is man - not profit - and we can’t forget that.
Also, too, the free market system works best in Democratic nations because it reflects the will of the people. But, if “the people” are making bad decisions, then the market - and government systems - will see the poor results of that.

“The actual deformity present here is that the left has so abused and deformed the language of true social justice into a socialistic screed that some can no longer discern the difference between the two.”

I’m glad you touched on this because it really is a problem. I am thoroughly in agreement with the CATHOLIC principles of social justice but it took me a lot of research on the subject to figure out the distinction between what the Church actually teaches and the hijacked version. It was a substantial barrier to my conversion, as I have encountered quite a number of Catholics that advocate quite forcefully for government control of just about everything. The biggest problem with that is that it replaces God with government (as opposed to the more extreme views of something like Objectivism that replaces God with self). Ideally, people would voluntarily put other people first. Realistically, some folks won’t. And only then is it appropriate for the government to step in, and at the lowest level possible to affect the necessary change. But we should all be mindful that the larger the government gets, the more concentrated ALL power gets. Punitive regulation runs everyone out of a market except those who can afford to comply. So on both extremes you run into the problem of concentrated power and wealth. It seems to me that there is a delicate balance that must be struck between the two extremes and that also seems to be what the Church teaches. Balance. Moderation. I just wish those voices were loud enough to drown out those who have hijacked the mantle of social justice so that the faithful could have a much clearer idea of what we believe in regards to social justice and individual rights.

bob, the amassing of wealth in the richest 1% shouldn’t be a concern. Yes, they have more money than ever before. Yes, they have a greater chunk of available wealth. However, there isn’t a fixed amount of wealth available. So while the ultra-rich have a larger chunk of the pie, the entire pie has gotten bigger. (Well, it contracted quite a bit in the last 4 years, but that’s the fault of both corrupt businessmen and corrupt politicians.)
I look at my own piece of the pie and see more and more of it taken away from me by taxes and fees. I’m not concerned about the ultra-rich trying to get some of my pie…they get it by selling me goods and services that I need/want. But the government, it just takes and takes and takes more, providing many important services, but wasting so much that it’s sickening.

Many P.

Right on, brother! I, too, was “infected” with a hijacked version of Catholic social justice. I think a lot of that was started in Central America with that exteme Marxist version of Christain social justice called “Liberation Theology,” which is totally rooted in “hatred for the rich.” We see a version of this TODAY in America among the American black communities where they are being fed a brand of this called “Black Liberation Theology” (i.e. Reverend Wright in Chicago, Obama’s old “pastor”). And that CANNOT be good for anybody and certainly not good as a founding principle for ANY economic system.

And I, too, did some research and was pleasantly surpised to learn the principles of subsidiarity and solidarity. Sadly, though, there are other priests and Catholic leaders/politicians who also “subscribe” to this version of social justice, which does an INJUSTICE to Jesus. I think we should re-phrase this false brand and calle it “Social INjustice” instead of the current social justice. Pope Benedict warned the youth this past weekend at World Youth Day to not fall for a “counterfeit Jesus”. I think this radical Jesus the left is pushing qualifies for this heading…

The ultra rich take from EVERYONE’S pie when they manipulate the system to decrease their share and unload it on everyone else. That’s why taxes and fees go up on the rest of us while some can pay little or none. Without any Government at all, there would simply be the Haves and the Have Nots.  Do you want roads? Do you want disaster assistance? Do you want Public Schools? etc., etc.???

The ultra rich aren’t benevolent enough to worry about you.  It’s all about them. When it stops being all about them, we’ll all be better off.

Maryanne,

You can’t punish the rich, you can only inspire them to give. We need the rich because the rich help create jobs, which is good for the economy. Greed is not exclusive to the rich: there are plenty of “greedy” poor people, too. In the “hood,” you see A LOT of people with fancy cars, the latest technological devices, the latest fashion items of clothing. They make poverty in this country look very desirable. Jesus spoke plenty about how the rich should utilize their wealth and how difficult it would be for “a rich man” to enter heaven. Remember, too, the parable of the rich man and Lazarus? Jesus never advocated for taking from the rich - or punishing them. Remember the rich man that came to Jesus asking what he must to “to inheret eternal life?” The parable concludes: “And he went away sad…”

“WHO is the TRUTH?”, is the question Pontius Pilate ought to have asked of Jesus Christ, had Pilate any understanding of the Sovereign Person, the Son of God, Jesus Christ.
  Before Pilate, Jesus Christ affirmed God’s “endowed sovereign authority constituted through the sovereign personhood of men, the laws of nature and nature’s God, and through Divine Providence”, employed by the state to function in the interests of the general welfare, the common good; God’s authority to function in the interests of the will of the people.  “You would not have this authority if it had not been given to you from above.”
The Servant of the Servants of God, Pope Benedict XVI invited all people in the world to unity in the Word of God, Jesus Christ, and gathered us as one, in Madrid Spain, World Youth Day 2011. Pope Benedict XVI, as the “Vicar of Christ”, called all people to vocation in the service of God and heaven, and man and earth as priests, nuns and consecrated laity.
It is estimated, because count was impossible, that over two million persons answered the “call” to holiness. And wasn’t the face of the Vicar of Christ radiant?
Some, whose hearts are far from God, criticized the “call” to vocation from the Primacy of Peter as destructive and counterproductive, expensive and unnecessary. Some economists, in their constant pull of our economy into the abysmal pit of SENSELESS COUNTING, instead of the purposeful encountering of Jesus Christ and establishing the Kingdom of God on earth begrudge the youth their virginity and innocence, the endowed right to exercise their freedom and acknowledge the Person of God, and to claim the public square as the domain of each and every free man. The Kingdom of God on earth is to fulfill man’s destiny beginning right here and now.
It is their own free will choice to criticize, reject the blessings of liberty and Divine Providence. Are they right?  Of course, they are right in their very small way, as the saying goes, even a broken clock is right twice a day. The economy is broken as men’s souls are broken and senseless counting of the braking without repairing the souls of men will give us feckless counting, despair and the devil’s delight.
Pope Benedict XVI has given us the design of repair. The Vicar of Christ on earth has given us The Way.
“WHO is like unto God”.  “Rendered unto Caesar what is Caesar’s and unto God what is God’s.”

What is being missed here is that big business is just as bad for people as big government. Big government likes socialism because it allows those in power to control the lives of the people for their own benefit. Conversely, Big Business wants a “free market” so that they can lower their costs and raise their profits. History shows us that if allowed a corporation will lower wages, pay in company dollars and degrade the safety of their work environment so long as it increases their profit margin. Both Big Government and Big Business are about greed. At least with Big Government everyone is a shareholder.

What the Pope is doing is simply pointing out the errors of both systems and upholding the dignity of humanity. In America we live under the lie that their are only two options: Left and Right, or Reps and Dems. The fact is that neither side really cares about the dignity of the human person, but about the interests of their biggest monetary supports (Big Business and cultural restructuring special interest groups). Socialism is not the answer, but neither is an unfettered “free market”.

What can we do instead? Read Chesterton’s “Outline of Sanity” and Belloc’s “Servile State” for starters. The biggest impact that we can make on society is not in the voting booth, but how we live our lives. Support small and local business; volunteer at a soup kitchen; get involved with your local municipal politics; Real change begins with the basic unit of society: the family.

“free market” on the back of slaves? Give us freedom and a “free market” of good will.

If paying a “fair” share is punishment, then so be it. If you read it, there is no statement in which I advocate punishing the rich. I object to gaming the system. I do advocate being less selfish, especially when there is a lot of wealth.  How much do people really need? You can’t take it with you. anyway.

It’s pretty sad if the wealthy have to be “inspired” to give or give only when there’s a tax benefit.  How about anonymous donations simply because it’s the right thing to do?
 
Just yesterday, the Priest at Mass spoke of a woman who said she would sponsor up to three children’s education at a school in his home country at $400.00 each.  However, he was taken back when she reneged on the offer because he didn’t know what a tax write off was and couldn’t provide the necessary information.

Want to cite the Bible?  Read the gospel for yesterday regarding Jesus and hypocrites Matthew 23:23-26.

Yes,there are greedy people in all walks of life, it doesn’t make it right. We can all cite the bible to make our points, some people believe in an eye for and eye.  Jesus wants us to turn the other cheek.

Maryanne,

I agree that taxes should be lowered, too. The gaming system needs to be fixed. However, we will always have taxes. And no matter what we do, there will always be corruption and greed. Lowering taxes will somewhat at least give the government less of our money. But, it’s only a relief of the problem, not a solition to the problem. As Warren Buffet said, the rich don’t pay “enough” taxes. And they’re still rich. Carl Anderson, Supreme Knight of the Knight of Columbus, said it best: “We will always give to Caesar what belongs to Caesar. But we will NEVER give to Caesar what BELONGS TO GOD.”

As far as the passage of the hypocrites goes, the “hypocrites” were religious. Not all of the rich in this country ARE religious. And until they disover Jesus, who is the REAL solution to the problem, then the problem will just continue. Pope Benedict and John Paul II both continuously reflected that the solition to every problem in this society is Jesus. God entrusts those who have been given wealth with an enormous responsibilty. For those who have discovered Jesus, we realize that we have to be good ADMINISTRATORS of his blessings - not just our material blessings. We are also called to look out for the spiritual needs of our neighbors, hence the Church’s Spiritual Works of Mercy. Money only takes care of our physical needs. The Church calls us to look out for the WHOLE person. And as far as I can see, the poorest in this country are not just those suffering from material poverty, but those with abundance because they don’t have Jesus. Mother Theresa said it best, also, when she said that Ameirca was “the poorest county in the world” not because of its material wealth - obviously - but because of its spiritual poverty. So, we have a lot of work to do.

Many of the rich are poor emotionally, mentally, and spiritually. They suffer from depression, loneliness, addiction, family problems, etc… So, I don’t envy them at all. Unfortunaltey, much of the social justice here in this country and aboad is rooted in envy. And the problem the rich - and those who aspire to be rich - continue to have is the fact that they think that MORE money is the answer to the problem: The more money they have the better off they will be. That’s why there is such an emphasis in big business for profits at whatever cost. They obviously have the wrong prescription because having more money is not going to take away their loneliness, their depression, their addiction, etc… If anything, it’s going to make it worse. Money is not bad, as science is not bad by itself. But both money and science if not used FOR GOOD, will destoy a society.

These wealthy who are lacking in religion don’t have what we have, and therefore don’t have a well-formed conscience, which explains why some of them are not able to do “the right thing” as we see it because it takes a well-formed conscience from Jesus to give them a moral compass. Otherwise it’s just philanthopy when they give “anonymous donations.” Remember the widow and the 2 coins parable? The widow “gave more.”

As Chesterton aptly summarized: “too much capitalism does not mean too many capitalists, but too few capitalists.” The secular right-left/capitalist-socialist polarity looks at the fundamental problem of “serving the common good” through the wrong lens(es). The pope does understand that economics, since it fundamentally involves people, who are moral creatures, is not merely about the transacting of valuables between amoral agents at micro or macro levels. This is well within the scope of his moral authority upon which to teach and rule as Christ’s Vicar. Marx, who was rabidly antagonistic to the Church, got it wrong, stripping away from people their fundamental right to own capital. As do those bulwarks of free-market thought, the Austrians, whose only creed is ultimately, the bottom line (ever hear of anarcho-capitalism? - it’s where most true libertarians end up when they stick to the ideology.)

There is a third way - oft forgotten in our modern age. The writings of the great Jesuit priest/economist Heinrich Pesch have heavily influenced “papal economics” for years, and are found at the core of the Church’s social teaching. To Chesterton’s point, the tendency for unfettered capitalism (read: greed) to concentrate and limit the ability of workers to own capital is why we see the bastions of Big Business that dominate the industries in which they compete. The rival force which both enables and supposedly checks Big Business is of course Big Government. The Catholic Church has positive things to say about capitalism, when morality prevails (which is, where?) But by definition, as the Austrians would say, economics and morals are mutually exclusive. The market itself, in their view, provides the natural mechanism to dissuade the “bad” (or unfavorable, disadvantageous) and promote the “good” (favorable, advantageous). You hear the screed “the agreed upon price IS the moral price”. Is this true in hurricane ravaged regions when displaced families will pay astronomical rates at a nearby hotel, because the owner has shrewdly perceived the laws of supply and demand? While practical implementations of distributist/Peschian principles are found wanting in the modern economy, those pioneers who embrace the Church’s directives towards subsidiarity (small, local concentrations of governing power) and solidarity (universal charity and consideration of all peoples with whom we have fraternal bonds) are finding ways to empower Everyman to be a capitalist, that is a true owner of the means of his production. Will Big Business find this way? Will Big Governments support it? I believe this is what the Pope’s admonition to modern-day capitalists is all about.

The Pope is all about the saving of souls, which is why I agree with you Matthew, and why I also believe Pope Benedict has not read the final version of the YOUCAT that went to print. Perhaps someone at The National Catholic Register could contact Pope Benedict for an interview.

Bill R,

“...economics and morals are mutually exclusive.”

Nice post! A lobbyist friend of mine and I were having a discussion one time, and I brought up to him that you need to have ethics in business. He simply said, “There are no ethics in business.” He meant this to say that you can do whatever you want. If this is the kind of thinking among businessmen/women, it might explain the state we’re in. And he’s “Republican”. But, I don’t think this is exclusive thinking to Republicans because there are plenty of Democrats who think the same. The Dmocrats just believe that by paying higher taxes it relieves them of their guilt for being wealthy…

Maryanne, who determines what a “fair share” is? Maybe a bit easier to answer is this question: What do YOU consider to be a “fair share”?
In my opinion, you don’t seem to want to “turn the other cheek” so much as “stick it to the man”. If I made $500,000/year instead of $50,000, and paid an effective tax rate of 15% (due to deductions against a 35% rate), instead of 20% without deductions beyond the standard (thus paying $75,000 in taxes as opposed to $10,000), would I have paid my fair share? Percentage-wise, I paid less. Dollar-wise, I paid much much more.

This: http://www.papalencyclicals.net/Leo13/l13rerum.htm

And This: Gospel of St. Matthew, Chapter 19:
“[21] Jesus saith to him: If thou wilt be perfect, go sell what thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come follow me. [22] And when the young man had heard this word, he went away sad: for he had great possessions. [23] Then Jesus said to his disciples: Amen, I say to you, that a rich man shall hardly enter into the kingdom of heaven. [24] And again I say to you: It is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of heaven. [25] And when they had heard this, the disciples wondered very much, saying: Who then can be saved?

[26] And Jesus beholding, said to them: With men this is impossible: but with God all things are possible. [27] Then Peter answering, said to him: Behold we have left all things, and have followed thee: what therefore shall we have? [28] And Jesus said to them: Amen, I say to you, that you, who have followed me, in the regeneration, when the Son of man shall sit on the seat of his majesty, you also shall sit on twelve seats judging the twelve tribes of Israel. [29] And every one that hath left house, or brethren, or sisters, or father, or mother, or wife, or children, or lands for my name’s sake, shall receive an hundredfold, and shall possess life everlasting. [30] And many that are first, shall be last: and the last shall be first.”

Scripture from http://www.drbo.org/index.htm

Pax Christi

It may not be clear from these comments alone that the Pope advocates greater political regulation of the economy, but he has made it clear elsewhere. 

Before taking Epstein to task, I think it would have made sense to read, for example, the Pope’s second encyclical, which emphasized the importance of an expanded government role in the market.  Here’s one example of many:

“Economic life undoubtedly requires contracts, in order to regulate relations of exchange between goods of equivalent value. But it also needs just laws and forms of redistribution governed by politics, and what is more, it needs works redolent of the spirit of gift. The economy in the global era seems to privilege the former logic, that of contractual exchange, but directly or indirectly it also demonstrates its need for the other two: political logic, and the logic of the unconditional gift.”

And I think the Holy Father’s words are very sage here Kurt.

Great topic- amazing how the critics of the papacy and the Church’s social doctrines, which date to the Hebrew prophets and are rooted in the dignity of the human made in God’s image and likeness.

Interesting Matthew, you’re not the only one combating this perception amongst Christians: http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/guest-voices/post/should-christians-be-socialists/2011/08/15/gIQAXlO0GJ_blog.html

I have some sympathy for both the leftists and the conservatives who get this wrong, and who think that Benedict XVI (and his predecessors) are advocating for the welfare state.

It’s not that I think the Catholic Church actually does make support for the welfare state obligatory on the Christian faithful. But I can easily see how one can get the wrong idea.

When one makes public pronouncements, one ought to make some minimal effort to avoid the most likely misunderstandings of one’s comments. This is especially true when one is in a position of great authority.

In dealing with the sin of homosexual activities, for example, the Catholic Church tends (in my experience) to be admirably careful to stipulate that, while homosexual activity is objectively disordered and willfully engaging in such activity is seriously sinful, persons who wrestle with temptation due to same-sex attraction disorder are not to be treated as a lesser class of persons but are to be accorded all the respect befitting their intrinsic dignity as persons created in the image of God.

This formulation is commendable: It makes the point that sin is sin, but avoids the misunderstandings which could lead some to shout “bigots!” and others to say “homosexual activity is sinful, so let’s go beat up a queer.”

In like manner, couldn’t the Magisterium be a little more careful to say that…,

(a.) ...we are each personally morally obligated to give of our own time, talent, and treasure to assist those in need; but,

(b.) ...this moral obligation to give of our own does not necessarily translate into a moral authorization to use the police power of the state to compel others to “give”; and,

(c.) ...although there are undeniable benefits to large-scale, government-organized, compulsory assistance to the needy, especially in times of crisis or natural disaster; nevertheless,

(d.) ...it is easily within the range of opinion permitted to the Christian faithful to argue that the (personally, socially, and politically) corruptive, divisive, and dignity-destroying side-effects of the welfare state are sufficient reason to oppose “compulsory alms” through taxpayer funded wealth transfers.

There. How hard was that?

The above statement, or something similar but better-written, is all it would take to prevent or correct innocent misunderstandings.

(Of course, it would not be adequate to prevent or correct all misunderstandings, because not all misunderstandings are innocent ones. In particular, I expect some left-progressive types would do their best to ignore such a statement, in their ongoing efforts to equate conservatives’ support for reducing entitlements to leftists’ support for legalized abortion.)

Still, the statement would be there, which would be helpful to correct innocent misunderstandings.

Pope Benedict xvi knows better than most anyone on the planet that Communism and Socialism have been the most destructive forces for religious rights of mankind. It is clear socialists work to remove God from our lives and replace him with a dictatorship government liken to God. The destructive power of socialists can be seen in America where Barack Obama has completely destroyed the country in 2 1/2 years, running up debt to unsustainable levels while bringing in homosexuality into the White House.

Socialism only divides races, divides the family, teaches children to be gay in pre-school, socialism is a sickness not a way of life.

The real problem is the Bilderberg’s,Illumanati,trilateral commission,council on foreign affairs,bohemian grove,skull and bones and all the other globalists.

Excellent Blog, Matt! Did you ever expose the shrill phoniness of one of the most ridiculous conspiracy theories spun by the far Right. One would think even the Hoover Institute and National Review would’ve shielded themselves from receiving this kind of looniness, much less publish any of it, and giving it the patina of their respective level of respectability within the Conservative Movement. Wm. F. Buckley must be spinning, no… make it gyrating ... in his grave. Maybe the earthquake specialists ought to be looking at a gravesite in southeast Connecticut instead of (hilariously and equally appropriately laughable enough) Eric Cantor’s 7th Congressional District of VA.

(Maybe a campaign donor passing on his/her way to visit the Squire of Culpepper) dropped a wallet or briefcase full of grateful donors for his efforts on their behalf to avoid paying taxes. After all, that’s what the rest of us actual living, breathing, “little people” have to pay so the big boys can play without pain.

Y’know what else is located fairly close to Cantor’s district as it edges closer to DC?: None other than “Accuracy In Media’s” headquarters. Guys, if you want to see paranoia and good ol’ fashioned Red Witch Hunts practiced by well-heeled reactionaries, just Google AIM, Pope Benedict, green movement ... add some “related ideas” of your own to those and see what appears. Unless, of course, AIM pulled what a lot of conservative pols and their pals love doing on their behalf in wikipedia, a sorta “cleansing” action.
  AIM’s boss, Cliff Kincade isn’t a big fan of Pope Benedict, or for that matter, the Vatican when it comes to the point where he believes theology meets today’s politics, especially Euro-Green politics which in Kincade & Co’s eyes are mere replacements for the Bolshies of olden days.
  Pope Benedict deserves better. So does the Vatican and the entire Magisterium.
  Hmmmm, I guess we can say maybe Kincade looks like a “c-c-c-cafeteria Catholic.”  Let the food fight begin!

And now a comment from the Roman Catholic magisterium, back before our broadcast was interrupted by the triumph of capitalism:

“I. The nature of the sin called usury has its proper place and origin in a loan contract. This financial contract between consenting parties demands, by its very nature, that one return to another only as much as he has received. The sin rests on the fact that sometimes the creditor desires more than he has given. Therefore he contends some gain is owed him beyond that which he loaned, but any gain which exceeds the amount he gave is illicit and usurious.

II. One cannot condone the sin of usury by arguing that the gain is not great or excessive, but rather moderate or small; neither can it be condoned by arguing that the borrower is rich; nor even by arguing that the money borrowed is not left idle, but is spent usefully, either to increase one’s fortune, to purchase new estates, or to engage in business transactions. The law governing loans consists necessarily in the equality of what is given and returned; once the equality has been established, whoever demands more than that violates the terms of the loan. Therefore if one receives interest, he must make restitution according to the commutative bond of justice; its function in human contracts is to assure equality for each one. This law is to be observed in a holy manner. If not observed exactly, reparation must be made.”

Pope Benedict XIV “Vix Pervenit” 1745

I am sure he was just misinterpreting himself.

But it also needs just laws and forms of redistribution governed by politics,

This sounds like tax laws where the super rich pay no taxes on billions of dollars

Oops, Have to ‘fess up a goof: ” ...full of grateful donors” should’ve read “full of donations from grateful donors.” Boy, would that’ve been one heavy earth crackin’ briefcase to drop! LOL. Fun just thinking about it, though! Hmmm, “earth crackin’” kinda rhymes with frackin’. Nawwww, I’ll let other conspiracy theory fans run with this. But keep us posted.

That statement by BX1V was about usury which has been conddemned from Hebrew Bible times and still is. He simply argued that the rate should be fair and just and any extra should be returned. Today the system is called interest and controlled by the Congress and usury is still controlled - the Pay-Day loan sharks are still around.
I cannot understand the comment above that this late 18th century Pope was re-interpreting himself. The papacy and Catholic Christian Church is not interested in economics in and for its own sake which is why using labels from communism or socialism or unbridled capitalism or European socialism are irrelevant. The sacredness of the human person is fundamental so no woman should be a badly paid worker for a giant corporation or a man a slave to some totalitarian system.

@Rafael: I wonder how your lobbyist friend would react if (may God forbid!) if either of you and a member of your families and circle of friends were to die as a result of a virtually unregulated pill or even vitamin-producing company? Let’s try this one for size; a child in either of your families dies from swallowing a carelessly “affixed” small piece to a toy and there wasn’t even the cautionary warning so many parents find when they buy toys for their kids about watching out for small parts? Wal-Mart imports unquestionably cheaply made nativity sets, some of which are packaged with shrink wrap containing formadahyde. The sets, by the way, sell for the whopping amounts ranging from roughly $6 to $20, and all contain small easily swallowable parts, i.e., figurines. What an irony, let’s say there were no regulations at all requiring even the implying that the packaging barely met U.S. trade and safety standards (LOL) ... and a little child happened to pick up a piece when his or her parent, older sib or guardian wasn’t watching and, the poor child choked to death.
  How about fair trade policies where so-called “free trade” pacts are drawn up with nary any say allowed by the public because as usual, these deals are pulled together by elites for the elites. The laws of these pacts supercede the U.S. Constitution and in some cases, and I might be wrong, no money is even being considered added to the benefit of any American employees who lose their jobs due to displacement.
  Can your GOP pal justify that? I guess he “can,” as you pointed out above: “... ‘There are no ethics in business.’ He meant this to say that you can do whatever you want. If this is the kind of thinking among businessmen/women, it might explain the state we’re in. And he’s ‘Republican’.”
  You rightly pointed out where the Democrats have their hands dirtied up in this atmosphere. Do they ever! That’s one reason I finally got so disgusted and decided to dis-enroll to Independent status, but my views over the past forty or so years I’ve been involved in politics, evolved from staunch conservative Democat to Democratic Socialist. If somebody reading this shakes his/her head saying, “Ugh, he’s thrown in his lot with Bernie Sanders,” ... damn straight I have!
  Your lobbyist friend’s political-party membership shouldn’t surprise anybody; not in the least given the way the Grand Old Party has turned evolution on its head to become Good Ol’ Parasites. Unlike the party of Lincoln that passed the Morrill Act and other far-reaching pieces of legislation while it was fighting the Civil War, and paid for it through taxes raised on the citizens ... something the freeloaders of the W “presidency” managed to get away with, not to mention an unaffordable package of indefensible tax hikes for the wealthy and a prescription drug program that was more of a sop to Big Pharma than any substantive program to help those who needed it the most ... only to pull off what they did this past year at the expense of the majority of taxpayers who need the many programs the GOP House cut, ranging from pre and post natal nutrition programs for young moms and babies, WIC to “Meals On Wheels” ... even food inspection programs of all thing(!) the mostly very wealthy GOP House Members and Senators shamelessly made no bones about what they saw perfectly appropriate behavior when they staged that carefully planned out and executed parliamentary coup of by and for the wealthy’s sake especially when it came to even closing loopholes that wouldn’t have set any multimillionaire or billionaire back in the least.
  Your friend did you and everybody a big favor by exposing the very lack of ethical core he and his Republican pals (and their Democratic Party enablers) have to serve as any ballast politics and government.
  The wolf’s fangs are all there for us to see and I hope the rest of the readers and commenters in this combox see them for what they are. They’re sharp and meant to shred every bit of what keeps our society together; a government based on the rule of law, not men. Ideally, this means we have a government shaped and run by men and women who respect precedence, common law, our Constitution, Bill of Rights, Declaration of Independence, Federalist Papers, history and of course, BUT NOT LEAST, our age old Religious Traditions as opposed to which oligarchy, lobbying firms and party organizations have the most money to throw around, not to mention, media organizations the power to destroy careers and reputations in a heartbeat thanks to our “smart-phone” society.
  A purist might say, “Well Rafael,  ... find new friends.” But even purists can’t beat such a rigged system when even minimal, even quaintly grudging respect for the rule of law nowadays is almost to the point where somebody like Grover Norquist—what has he ever DONE??? or contributed to the COMMON GOOD OF MOST AMERICANS?—can get away with strangling this bare necessity for maintining some semblance of civility in his proverbial excutionary drowning bathtub. And while the purist stands by ever so proudly that his shoes aren’t getting muddied by being “too close,” his and OUR government is being sold out to the best bidder for the scrap heap like many proud warships, planes and tanks that defended us during wartime. Nobody should be that kind of a purist, lest he misses out when his “friends” are baring their fangs.
  No, sometimes even the good guys, and I presume you are, Rafael because you shared this friend’s slip-up, have to play like Don Corleone (LOL) who was wise enough to keep his cool, his friends and loved ones and closest friends and allies close ... but his enemies closest.
  Otherwise we’ll never see when the fangs are bared and recognize the wolves from the sheep. Dogs aren’t called “Man’s best friend” for nothing. Dogs have loyalty and their own sense of what’s right and wrong. Wolves, on the other hand, that part of the canine family, never evolved to the level of dogs.
  Hmmm, maybe this is why today’s Republicans have such a hard time with evolution.

Matthew A.Siekierski,
I agree to disagree on this it is pointless to go on and on. In my defense I must say, however, that I’d much rather be guilty of wanting to “stick it to the man”, as you put it, than wanting to stick it to the poor anytime.

HermitTalker states:

“That statement by BX1V was about usury which has been conddemned from Hebrew Bible times and still is. He simply argued that the rate should be fair and just and any extra should be returned.”

Remarkably, the above statement is made in the face of the following plain words of the Pope:

“One cannot condone the sin of usury by arguing that the gain is not great or excessive, but rather moderate or small; neither can it be condoned by arguing that the borrower is rich; nor even by arguing that the money borrowed is not left idle, but is spent usefully, either to increase one’s fortune, to purchase new estates, or to engage in business transactions. The law governing loans consists necessarily in the equality of what is given and returned; once the equality has been established, whoever demands more than that violates the terms of the loan. THEREFORE IF ONE RECEIVES INTEREST, he must make restitution according to the commutative bond of justice; its function in human contracts is to assure equality for each one. This law is to be observed in a holy manner. If not observed exactly, reparation must be made.” (emphasis added)
Pope Benedict XIV “Vix Pervenit” 1745

My question, Hermit, is did you actually read the words which you directly contradict, or is it merely that you find their plain and obvious meaning so threatening that you would prefer that they said the exact opposite of what they in fact say?

Read more: http://www.ncregister.com/blog/matthew-archbold/is-pope-benedict-xvi-a-commie/#ixzz1WGXw2qgo

In many respects, democratic socialism was and is close to Catholic social doctrine and has in any case made a remarkable contribution to the formation of a social consciousness.

Europe and Its Discontents by Benedict XVI

This essay is not a magisterial document, but it is written by someone who understands Catholic Social Doctrine more than anyone else here and his summary should be respected as probably close to mainstream Catholicism.

If you experience shock, denial, outrage or anger on reading this, consider that your loyalty to your own self-interests, prejudices and upbringing may be stronger than your allegiance to Christ and His teaching. We are all called to full conversion.

I am sympathetic to Joe’s point, above, concerning the deep indoctrination into Austrian School assumptions which we deeply imbibe here in the USA. That being said, it strikes me as highly inappropriate to suggest we are “called to full conversion”, implicitly, to a prudential endorsement of a failed economic system merely because it is endorsed by a private theologian in a non-magisterial work. We are not in any slight way called to such a conversion. Our Catholic liberty extends to a considered rejection of the failed economic basis of the European community, which is dying (what follows is strictly one man’s poor opinion), like the rest of the New World Order, of its addiction to usury.

Capital nas changed, and its uses more diversified than in late 18th century Europe, the Pope as a human being is tied to the reality of his cultural world as most of us are. He could not in 1784 be condemning the contemporary use of interest because capital and the meaning of money have changed. He is actually sets forth principles regarding the loaning of money and interest charged which are reasonable, do not need any Divine infallible guidance. But the Natural Law and doing Justice to one another are biblically-enjoined and those principles are applied to the Social Order very powerfully since Leo X111, whose master-work Enclylical is entiled Rerum Novarum,  “Of New Things” Labor and Capital were his concerns. They were also under JP11 and still are with BXV1 whose teachings are absolutely rooted in biblical principles, the most fundamental being the sacred dignty of the person. The Popes are not intersted in promoting any economic system but do condemn unbridled capitalism, which denies human worth and also extreme socialism which does the same to the human person. One exalts Business and the other the State. Business can lobby and pay money out in large enough bucket-fulls to campaign funds that it can control even the most efficient Democratic Republics.  Greed and Power are bed-fellows.  Mentioning no names of course!!

@HermitTalker: If you won’t “name names,” may I, starting with the top two on my list of “usual suspects”? LOL!
  Let’s see now, oh yes, David and Charles Koch. George Soros and Warren Buffett aren’t even in Kochs’ catagory.
  My favorite baddie of ‘em all is this Grover Norquist who’s managed to hornswaggle so many of these ever-quick-to-challenge-a-liberal’s-patriotism…into publicly swearing to serve Norquists’ no-taxes, no-prisoners form of “politics” that would make former East Germany’s Walter Ulbricht and Eric Honnecker proud.
  Naming names is half the fun: watching the “named” sweat and cringe in fear of the public’s wrath more than Norquist’s is even more fun.

What is lacking in our culture is GOOD WILL. GOOD WILL is a commodity that in a business has a price tag. If a businessman has cultivated GOOD WILL among his customers, his business prospers, if he is mean, greedy stingy, a swindler and cheater, how far do you think his business will go? It is the same for governments. Another word bandied about but totally misunderstood is CHARITY. The joy of giving, the peace of receving can only become comprehensible with the acknowledgement of the full dignity of the human person and who God created and endowed the person to be. This relates to GOOD WILL on a supernatural level, something individuals who reject God, along with God’s definition of CHARITY, while using the words to draw others into their form of slavery, cannot and will not endure.

Th nature of money has changed, Hermit? Why, this is an astonishing assertion. It is remarkable that yu have failed to demonstrate it. In truth,m the nature of money has changed not a whit, and the Pope has told you that usury (the charging of interest on a loan) is mortally sinful. I am, frankly,m uninterested in your contrary opinion, since it has wrought a global catastrophe which, I would expect, you are prepared to deny, just as you deny the plain words of a Pope. When the New World Order collapses (very soon now), please recall that it was the rejection of Catholic teaching on usury which brought the catastrophe about.

You are correct in that is what he said then but like a lot of statements it is culturally time-conditioned which was my fault for not saying up front. Money has changed in that the meaning of money has changed, gold and other precious metals are more extensively used in trading.and the issuance of bonds by governments and corporations, in general, commercial bonds. Money has an exchange value an holds its value overtime but its meaning has been broadened.
  The sins are excessive interest and gambling with other people’s money in a loosely governed stock market and other markets, and Governments asleep at the wheel when regulators and banks were controlled by corporate greed and hubris. That all combined to bring about the crash. Greed and excessive priden and power - hubris -destroy the person, the instituion and strikes at the heart of the Common Good.
My field is the Humanities with special emphasis on the nexus between Government systems, religious institutions in the development of civilisation from Babylon through today. Sorry I was not more precise, I am perhaps more aware of how statements and positions are culturally conditioned in Roman Catholic Christian Magisterial circles which does not interfere with the key and core Natural Law and biblical teachings and are nuanced as the Holy Spirit guides the culture and especially to the Church which we believe gets His special assistance according to Jesus’ promises

Hermit’s position evolves:

Hermit Now: “You are correct in that is what he said then…”

Hermit Then:“He simply argued that the rate should be fair and just and any extra should be returned.”

>>First off, Hermit, I commend you for admitting that your initial post utterly misrepresented the Pope’s words.

Hermit digs the hole deeper: “but like a lot of statements it is culturally time-conditioned which was my fault for not saying up front”

>> It is your fault for now saying down back. You, like many Catholics of both the neoconservative and modernist persuasions, arrogate to yourself the right to dismiss the authentic magisterium as “time conditioned”, when it is in fact you who are time conditioned. You have decided to believe in a mystical magical “change in the nature of money” rather than confront the stark fact that you reject the Pope’s teaching on usury, which is also the teaching of Scripture, of the Fathers, and of the Councils.

You are not alone, but the end-phase collapse of the usury-based global banking system might possibly have been expected to cause you a moment’s reflection before recycling your talking points.

Hermit: “Money has changed in that the meaning of money has changed”

>> This is bit of handwaving folderol. You assert what you have twice now failed to even attempt to demonstrate. There is an excellent reason for this. The “meaning of money” has not, in fact, changed.

H: “gold and other precious metals are more extensively used in trading”

>> Precisely the opposite is true. The point is meaningless in any case. Money has often taken the form of gold. Of silver. Of beads. Of paper. Of bonds. Of notes. All through history. The forms are variable, the nature is not.

H: Money has an exchange value an holds its value overtime but its meaning has been broadened.

>> Money in various forms holds, loses, and increases its value over time. Its meaning has not changed at all, it has merely elaborated its unchanging meaning in a multiplicity of forms. The Church recognized early on (in fact, from the very beginning) the temptation to create fictitious wealth out of thin air through the charging of interest on a loan of money. This the Church condemned as “usury”. We are all about to have an opportunity to mourn our failure to interiorize this truth.

Hermit tap dances his way back to his original, false, exposition of the magisterium’s teaching: The sins are excessive interest

>> False. As the Pope is now going to tell you for the third time, the sin is any interest whatsoever. Interest *is* the sin. That is what the Pope says. He does not say something else-

“One cannot condone the sin of usury by arguing that the gain is not great or excessive, but rather moderate or small; ...... THEREFORE IF ONE RECEIVES INTEREST, he must make restitution according to the commutative bond of justice…. This law is to be observed in a holy manner. If not observed exactly, reparation must be made.” (emphasis added)
Pope Benedict XIV “Vix Pervenit” 1745

I completely sympathizer with the cognitive dissonance you are undergoing, Hermit. You have been sold on the notion that the Church was wrong, and the usurers, those geniuses of new meanings of money (another word for this would be “counterfeiters”), were right.

You, and they, are a bit slow on the uptake, but reality is now imposing an important, if painful, lesson in this regard.

Stay tuned.

Usury is still condemned.Taking interest that is fair when the money borrowed can make money otherwise is not. See the Catechism of The Catholic Church. Professor John Noonan, a practical Catholic, and professor of Law explains the reason for the change in teaching as money’s use changed in time and investment opportunities grew.

Hermit keeps digging: “Taking interest that is fair when the money borrowed can make money otherwise is not.”

>> The above sentence is gibberish, but certainly its first clause is false:

““One cannot condone the sin of usury by arguing that the gain is not great or excessive, but rather moderate or small; ...... THEREFORE IF ONE RECEIVES INTEREST, he must make restitution according to the commutative bond of justice…. This law is to be observed in a holy manner. If not observed exactly, reparation must be made.” (emphasis added)
Pope Benedict XIV “Vix Pervenit” 1745

That is the fourth time you have explicitly rejected the plain teaching of a Pope here, Hermit, and the process is a fascinating insight into the habits of “thought” of elements of the modern Church.

H: “See the Catechism of The Catholic Church”.

>> Yes, let’s. Note first that you do not provide the citation. I will rectify this oversight for you. CCC #2269:

“Those whose usurious and avaricious dealings lead to the hunger and death of their brethren in the human family indirectly commit homicide, which is imputable to them.”

That is the only time the word usury appears in the Catechism.

Nothing about new meanings of money, nothing about acceptable rates of usury.

If only Fr. Noonan were the magisterium, Hermit, how happy you should be.

Since he is not, instead you are ten posts into a debacle.

But a useful debacle, all the same.

See the Catechism of The Catholic Church.

Read more: http://www.ncregister.com/blog/matthew-archbold/is-pope-benedict-xvi-a-commie/#ixzz1WRr6DpAW

NOONAN is a lay professor, may be dead since I studied his material. The distinction between usury and regulated interest taking is accepted today in official Catholic teaching.

“Accepted”? Hermit. Now there’s a delicious insight. The magisterium is not constituted by Hermit’s blithe assertion that a given teaching is “accepted”.

The magisterium consists in its teachings, which, in the case of usury, you reject.

You are far from alone, Hermit.

You are also wrong.

@Maryanne: Interesting statement here; “...You can’t punish the rich, you can only inspire them to give. We need the rich because the rich help create jobs, which is good for the economy.”
  I know very well how to inspire TRAITORS, and that’s to use whatever means we have at our disposal, be they legal or persuasive through the media. http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2011/03/25/60minutes/main20046867.shtml
  How many jobs are the big tax cheats creating by shifting their boodle to Switzerland and using sham tax havens like the Caymans and other favorite dumping grounds for the wealthy parasites sucking off the profits made off the sweating backs of the fewer and fewer workers we have left in our manufacturing sector.
  As Abraham Lincoln wisely noted, labor precedes capital. It is the workers, who have money in their pockets earned from working here in the US who go to stores here and buy things, which in turn provide sales tax receipts for the states, which in turn returns a portion back to cities in towns which are better able to prevent cutting services and/or raising property taxes, and we all know what that does to the public’s capacity to purchase items.
  Oh, but if we just trust what the Brothers Koch, the Americans for Prosperity, the Business Roundtable and that Benedict Arnold outfit called the U.S. Chamber of Commerce, everything will be alright and the money will somehow flow back and we’ll all be singing “Happy Days Are Here Again.”
  When parasitic GOP elephants fly ... that’s when you’ll see progress occur again if we follow Maryanne’s trusting logic.
  If these so-called “job creators” are so beneficiently interested in creating more jobs, these wonderful “human corporations,” as our “friend” Mitt Romney likes to put it, were as genuinely concerned about creating jobs instead of lining their own damn pockets, THEY WOULD’VE CREATED THE JOBS instead of playing along this scheme to wreck the economy solely for the purpose of driving Barack Obama out of office. As for somebody like Romney, what a job creator he was. When he was MA’s governor, the Commonwealth was 47th in job creation. Funny how his successor Deval Patrick’s administration has created new jobs, and the budget is in the black, even after raising taxes! Goes to show that pampering the already pampered doesn’t pay off. Does it?
  It’s time to have our money returned and put these TRAITORS who dare to package themselves as “job creators” in the jug.

Been A few days Mr Delano. I found the same paragraph in the Catechism as you did referring to “usuriousness” tied specifically to the harm it does to allowing people to die overseas by its use, the Government and Bank equivalent of “Loan sharking” on the streets. There is not a single paragraph in any contemporary papal encyclical OR in the Catechism CC to condemn the noraml practice of charging interest. “USURY” is excessive charge and BX1V in 1785 was writing about money as it was used and considered then.
You may be familiar with similar practices in the USA and with our overseas loans. Farmers there were pushed to borrow on land values that dropped very low decades later.  That caused chaos. Same when loans were made for example to Latin America. I am quite familiar with their situation. The Governments were forced to pay interest on the loans OR feed their people. The economy soured and the loan charges were exorbitant. The Jubilee 2000 project and other efforts got relief from a lot of the debt. We are more familiar with the Bank-Mortgage -Government oversight failure of 2008- crooks and gamblers who destroyed jobs and lives and foreclosed homes while they got away and now taxpapers are stuck with bills they cannot afford and States and Cities are bust. Greed versus common sense charges and moderate salaries not million-dollar bonusues for the crooks

Everything that Benedict and Obama want fly in the face of freedom and independence.  We have the Pope of the Catholic Church calling for the dreaded new world order. We have a POTUS hell bent on installing a complete communist dictatorship in the U.S. under the guise of OBAMACARE ...Let’s just call it under the guise of the NANNY GOVT. We have the worst economy since the last manufactyred great depression. The last manufactured Wall Street depression installed dictators globally, such as Hitler in Nazi Germany. We are dealing with feudalism….The U.S. has actually regressed to this. This flies in the face of Church teaching and the U.S.C. and the strict property laws governing our property rights. We have been hijacked by the means of fake money lending and fraudulent investing. The WORLD BANK DID THIS and they are controlled by the Vatican and they control Obama and the politicians. The truth is WE THE PEOPLE are the title holders of record to everything. The WORLD BANK BORROWED FROM ALL OF US and lent US CREDIT…..NOTHING OF VALUE…..THE U.S.C ARTICLE I; SECTION 10 STATES…..BILLS OF CREDIT CAN ONLY BE EXCHANGED FOR GOLD OR SILVER COIN…...NOT PROPERTY…..! STOP THE FRAUDCLOSURES, the UNCONSTITUTIONAL and ILLEGAL taking of OUR PROPERTY ......to pay for unsustainable bankster fraud…! This is not commie Russia or Nazi Germany….WE THE PEOPLE HAVE A U.S.C. THAT PROTECTS US FROM THEM…! STOP THE COMPLETE COMMUNIZATION OF AMERICA…UNDER THE GUISE OF DEBT THAT HAS BEEN FRAUDULENTLY INDUCED AND THE COLOR OF LAW…!

IF HH BXV1 is calling for a civilisation of Love, asking that the worst elements of capitalism and excesses of socialism are avoided, he is Jesus’ follower. He is not in favour of any NEW WORLD ORDER that smacks of any of the excesses of any political or economic system. It is doing him and his Church a disservice to suggest such.

Pope Benedict did call for a NEW WORLD ORDER…..DO YOUR HOMEWORK….! He is a member of the Bavarian Illuminati…John Paul II said he feared he would be the one they would use to try and install COMPLETE GLOBAL COMMUNISM…Obama is a traitor to the U.S.C and BENEDICT is a traitor to Catholic Church teachings….READ THE U.S.C and read the CATHOLIC ENCYCLOPEDIA ...ESP IN REGARDS TO PROPERTY RIGHTS AND FEUDALISM….GET A CLUE…THESE PEOPLE ARE TRAITORS TO THE PEOPLE…!

This is precisely how the plan to install complete communism….by “fixing” the messes their perps created….Their World Bank monetary system is the microchipped mark of the beast….666…
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/07/08/world/europe/08pope.html

BTW…they don’t teach true church doctrine in catechism. Vatican Council II ushered in a load of crap.

Marxist socialism is a set up to fail. It’s a ponzi scheme that only benefits the 1%. It causes trickle down poverty and trickle down fascism. The end stage cancer of Marxist Socialism is Complete Communism.

ivent; Have no idea who washed your brain, but your reading of History and Catholic Social Teaching is way off course. BXV1 follows the 100-year plus development of Catholic Social Doctrine since Pope Leo X111 first codified them with the genius of combining Revealed Truth from the Sacred Scripture with Reason ( philosophy, which is defined as “organised common sense.” To ignore this and type B XV1 or Vatican 11 as false is neither jusice, nor fairness, nor charity nor truth.

“Bavarian Illuminati”  “NEW WORLD ORDER.” Explain and leave DAN BROWN out of it please, his “illuminati” list was based on a forgery in the French National Library, needless to say way before Josef Ratzinger was born and long after Mary Magdalene started a Magic Kingdom in France - excuse me that was Disney’s concoction. I suggest taking a nap with SLEEPY and wake up to current Catholic Social teaching.

This does not change the fact that when Pope John Paul II kissed the Koran, it appeared to me that his reaction was automatic, leading me to believe it could have been “programmed”  by someone who knew in advance about the presentation.

Our Lady of Fatima, hear our Prayers, that our Pope will respond to you Message.

B.T.W., according to Wordpress, there is a problem with my e-mail. Many of my comments are disappearing.

My brain is unwashed…unwash yours. The Illuminati was around way before Dan Brown. Father Malachi Martin blew the whistle on them years ago. Have you ever read The Thunder of Justice by Ted Flynn….? All I can say is there are some really evil people who want to steal your freedom and independence. They are called the NEW WORLD ORDER…..The smoke of Satan has entered everything including the Catholic Church. Do some research. It is not the religion that is to blame, it is the people who are running it and who have hijacked all Govts with the monetary system of the beast. The blessed mother warned that if the heart of Russia was not consecrated to her, Russia would spread her errors of communism around the world, including the U.S. How else do you explain all of the pedophilia in the church? I believe the blessed mothers messages were a warning. The microchip in the hand is in page 1000 of obamacare, under the section entitled MEDICAL DEVICE REGISTRY. We all need to pray.

Guys, it’s been a long, hot summer. None of this stuff’s new, or for that part, original. A few years ago, “Accuracy” In Media, published a few screamin’ screeds howlin’ about Pope Benedict falling under the influence of the successors of Communism: The Green Movement. I protested back at its publisher (author, too, I believe, Cliff Kincade, who runs the outfit and is on the Board of the National Journalism Center, where I interned almost 30 years ago.) Well, my tone was a little rough, and I wound apologizing for that much. But he thought I should be joining in with him and his fellow arch-conservative traditionalist Catholics in doing what could be done to prevent the Pope and Vatican from falling into the hands of the Greenies.
Sigh. Geeesh. To think this is one of the leaders of today’s inner circle of what’s left of the older and far more sensible Conservative Movement started by Wm. F. Buckley, Jr., Russell Kirk, Peter Viereck, Fr. Neuhaus, and M. Stanton Evans. Hell, no wonder the Kincades, the Coulters, Hannitys, O’Reillys and Limbaughs still have too much say nowadays since they’ve conned the rest of the outside (and more reflective) world that’s by-passed a once proud intellectual movement that’s now fallen victim to serious repetitive episodes of Obamaderangmentitis.)
Pray for them. All of ‘em, especially Stan Evans who founded the NJC and deserves a nice retirement, not to mention the souls of those other genuine conservatives, whose souls must be gyrating.

All of these revelations should be common knowledge. However, we have a media and an education system that was hell bent on dumbing down the people. They almost succeeded.

Too many closed minds is dangerous. It causes people to believe everything they are told. The truth is not so clear cut by design. You have to cut through layers to get to it.

Ivent: What do you mean by “almost succeeded”? LOL ... so long as Fox News continues spewing its never fair and always unbalanced approach towards the its flagrant mix of opinion and news to the point where one can never be sure which is which, or what they think it’s supposed to be ... they might yet succeed in totally dumbing down the electorate. And that’s exactly what the oligarchs behind any concerted efforts to make sure “Citizens United” is never overturned by a Constitutional Amendment is seeking to render permanent.

Well Steve….the sheeple are waking up…..they want the TRUTH…and are choosing alternative news sources such as: http://4closurefraud.org/      http://maxkeiser.com/

Lone Thinker..HH B XVI…? I ONLY BOW TO ONE KING…GOD ALMIGHTY…CREATOR OF HEAVEN AND EARTH…CREATOR OF ALL THAT IS SEEN AN UNSEEN…..I don’t worship false idols..

BTW…Catholic Church doctrine does not believe in collecting usury…..Jesus warned about the money changers…..However….these people do whatever they want….they are great deceivers of mankind.

The Carbolic Church view on usury….  http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/15235c.htm

Sorry…I meant to say the Catholic Church view on usury….sincerely,  no pun intended.

They won’t get the news from the righties. I know this for a fact because in their efforts to “balance out” the stuff they feel is slanted from the Left, and I know some of it was, they go overboard and wind up imitating the very thing they loath the most.  Saddest part is that the Right knows this and DOESN’T GIVE A DAMN. It all came to roost today when Romney’s p.r. “handler” back in Boston, Andrea Saul let all the cats out of the GOP’s bag when she said the steelworker’s wife could’ve received Romneycare if they lived in MA. Well, obviously, they don’t even believe their own agit prop because they can’t make up their minds as to where their man’s thoughts are, if he has any at all and this was made clear for the world to see how disgracefully vacant they are “upstairs” where it’s supposed to count when it comes to politics, issues and principles. They have none and the reaction of their faithful in the media, who couldn’t believe that in trying to tell the truth that their man established a working model of affordable health care, Ms. Saul was ruining their whole schtick, which was to sell an empty bag of goods held by a man with an empty chest and and empty head. Even that was made clearer when Paul Ryan, appearing later on Cspan directly trashed MassHealth saying we couldn’t keep costs down up here. Ryan had no other trick left than trash the system.
That whole ridiculous charade in political self destruction (and I’m laughing like hell as I’m typing this and thinking of Rush’s reaction and that “red state blog” owner’s “OMG” moment and the faces of Fox’s truly unhinged cast of characters ... it’s been one hell of a day! Halleluliah!
May God help EWTN and this paper if Murdoch’s gaze hits them both and this falls under Fox control. Well, Raymond Arroyo will feel right at home.

The MSM and Hollywood are promoting the commie agenda. They have no souls. They and the hierarchy of everything are despicable.

The big broohaha about Romney is if he paid tax on his earnings. The question that really should be asked of ALL of these politicians and Hollywood, the media, the music industry and Wall Street fat cats is what have they GIVEN BACK to US…? What have they given back to WE THE PEOPLE…..WHO FUND AND PAY FOR EVERYTHING….? Taxable income stays in the hands of the GREEDY 1%...Marxist Socialism is designed to rob the lowe, middle and upper classes…The World Bank monetary system of interest and rent as confiscated surplus value along with profit…was designed to make US FAIL. Along with the LABOR THEORY OF VALUE…and PROPERTY IS LABOR. The Marxist theory was to monoplize Capitalism and DESTROY THE FREE MARKETS…. by robbing US through their FEDERAL RESERVE MONETARY SYSTEM, Secret Socialist policies and Progressive taxation. That allowed the 1% to confiscate OUR WEALTH….MONOPOLIZE everything and form one giant GOVT CORP…in order to stifle the FREE MARKETS….The 1% are CONTROL FREAKS…They give back NOTHING OF VALUE. Just the debt they create from OUR STOLEN WEALTH. The measure of a person is in their good works. I SEE NONE…NOT FROM THE POPE….THE CLERGY….THE POLITICIANS…HOLLYWOOD….THE MUSIC INDUSTRY…THE CORPS…..THE MEDIA….WALL STREET CEOS….ALL THAT I SEE IS GREED. EVERYONE HAS THEIR HAND OUT TO US BUT NO ONE GIVES ANYTHING BACK…...NO ONE…

God help us all…..  http://www.cuttingedge.org/news/n1360.cfm

Whoever thinks the capital markets are “free” clearly does not get what has occurred here .....at all There has been a coup de tat of our wealth. The U.S. has been hijacked by an oligarchy. As a result of the set up to fail by the plutocrats, instituted by the oligarchs,  we are now being ruled by plutocrats. It’s all a giant fraud. All of the politicians should resign in disgrace because they are the traitors who allowed it.

What happened to Lech Walesa? What happened to the Vatican when it allows Romney to use the smiling mug of Walesa and legacy of Pope John Paul II to curry favor with American Catholics. Have we forgotten the sacrifices made by our forefathers and foremothers slaving away in our factories; whilst Romney’s idea of heroes were all too eager to have cops put billy clubs upside their heads just for demanding a more liveable wage and decent benefits for all the work they performed under hot and dirty conditions so colossal social ingrates like Mittens whose idea of “entitlement” is limited to thinking he and all his richy rich pals are “entitled” to a better way of life all because they were born between third and home plate? Let’s add mental softness alongside spiritual softness and moral softness and physical softness while we’re at it.
Obama is the enemy of religion in this country? Does he really think we’re that stupid? No, but I’ll bet he thinks we’ve been sufficiently brainwashed by our crassly materialistic Americanized “culture” to the point it’ll make no difference how smart or stupid we’ve become as a society…just so long as we kowtow to the oligarchs and say “Yesboss, Noboss” in just two words. His old man said he was “brainwashed” by LBJ’s Pentagon and the protestors proved him correct. Mittens’ pals aren’t quite intelligent enough to pull this kind of job off, at least not directly. Instead they’d outsource the dirty work to the lowest paid teachers their cheapskate politicians will somehow be able to scrape off the ground to put in classrooms to teach future kids. Excuse me, our “smart phones” with the myriad of apps to choose from to entertain them will finish their minds off for sure; rendering them well suited for the lowest-paying dregs of dreg labor the oligarchs will say is available. Why, because they’ve kept the best for themselves, their fellow oligarchs’ kids, investors kids, especially, thus leaving the rest for us to scrounge for to feed our families; regardless if our IQs are well above room temp which is is a lot more than we’ll be able to expect from our new class of “betters.”
Obama’s the enemy of religion? Romney and his ilk are the complete enemy of God’s will for every man, woman and child in this country; and that will does not include a life of wealth n’ riches beyond our wildest imaginations for those fortunate (er, “entitled” to live behind the walls of their gated communities.) Hell, let ‘em have their gated kingdoms on earth, we’ll settle for the better one up above. And boy , will I be singing “Solidarity Forever” the day I get to climb that ladder to leave this once truly exceptional nation behind. Yeah, it used to be exceptional till the oligarchs were able to buy it and every scalawag pol they could pack into every legislature, every city and town council, every judicial branch, etc etc etc in the land ... all thanks to “Citizens United.”
But ... “Pope Benedict is a Commie.” Want to run that by again folks?

Pope Benedict’s ideologies are Globalist…..not Catholic or American. Same goes for Obama. Romney is a crony capitalist. His ideology is the rich should get richer off the backs of the American people. Use and abuse is the Globalist meme. They ALL want a globe full of proles. I refuse to participate. THEY HAVE ALL DISHONORED US…...EXPONENTIALLY.

That’s the same kind of thinking you’ll find coming out of the John Birch Society, so-called “Accuracy” in Media and a host of other parochially minded (not to be confused with the word’s association with routine parish functions) out to lunch rightist wacko outfits. Wouldn’t it be fascinating to learn how many of these far-right outfits bag the “non-profit” tag, say they’re “educating the public” and skirting their tax obligations. Look, when outfits are shamelessly shilling for or alongside very pro-profit “non-profits” as if they were legitimate non-profits ... a scam’s being pulled. And all too many of these far-wacko rightists groups are playing this tune ... much moreso often by any number of leftist groups. (Far fewer in that column.)

ivent; You are constitutionally free to bend your backside in whichever direction you choose to express your religious belief. ” As for me and my houseold we will obey the Lord.” He used the language of the DAVIDIC KINGDOM, since HE was the promised successor to DAVID’s temporal line of kings and HE named Peter the Rock and gave him the keys, power to bind and loose, re-established Peter as the Shepherd of the flock (David was Shepherd-King) in John 21. Peter exercised that office all through the Acts - fist sermon after Pentecost, decided Jews did not have to be circumcised, sent Paul to the Gentiles; Peter, renamed ROCK from Simon, sign of new role in the Bible- Abram/Abraham etc. HE Was crucified in Rome, where his body was presumed to be buried under St Peter’s Altar in the Basilica, body identified after excavation in the 1970s or so. The difficulty with Bible-only pundits is they know little or nothing about the whole Book and speak out of limited knowledge.

I have NOTHING against the Catholic religion. I am Catholic. However, I do not agree with the Globalist meme of the hierarchy. ...  “ye shall know them by their fruits .....even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.”- (Matthew 7:16 - 18)

what is a “globalist meme” of the Church’s anointed leaders? JESUS said to baptise all nations. We have a huge one billion Vineyard so expect sin and grace in the mix. surely you are not dumb enough to demand perfection when Jesus Himself did not pick robots but frail humans who were enliveneed by His Holy Spirit

Where’s the good fruit…..?

The John Birch Society was founded by the freemason Rockefeller…..If you listen closely they are pushing the Globalist meme…..end the FED by fraudulently inducing a Vatican Gold Backed dollar….What we really need to do is restore the U.S.C…ISSUE U.S. BANK NOTES ....BACKED BY GOLD OR SILVER…..ISSUED VIA STATE BANKS…...THAT WILL ABOLISH THE UNHOLY MONETARY ALLIANCE WITH THE WORLD BANK…THE FEDERAL RESERVE NOTE IS NOT OUR OWN CURRENCY.

Lone Thinker….I don’t bend or bow to any temporal power. I am an American. There is one King….the Lord our God…and one Queen…the Blessed Mother of God…Mary.

ivent; In your claim to be a Catholic, does that include accepting the SACRAMENT of Jesus the Christ, present in His Church, which includes His naming of Simon Johnson - Bar Jonah as “Rocky” Peter on whose Faith in His Divinity and on the 12 He built His Church? AND that this SACRAMENT, as in human/physical infused with Grace still exists and is guided by the Bishop of Rome who succeeds same Peter? IF not we belong to a different entity. As to your return to the gold standard and state banks backed by gold or silver, then bless your little heart. Of the two topics you wrote about on here, if I were you, I would stick with my day job.

This is my day job. I bet you hate that.

Read all about it folks… you be the judge….. http://theunhivedmind.com/wordpress/?p=18814

Interesting ending sentence offered by Rafael, “Remember the widow and the 2 coins parable? The widow ‘gave more.’” Given the Romney-Ryan budget & tax plans, this is exactly what the middle and lower-income classes will face if the GOP takes over the White House and retains control of at least the House. What the widow gave was out of her heart. What Romney-Ryan stands for is nothing but classicist contempt for the vast majority of working people in this country. Haven’t we had our teeth kicked in long enough by a group of hypocrites who bristle at the idea of entitlements for the vast majority of us who don’t enjoy the enormous financial advantages enjoyed by the one percent…some of whom never earned a damn penny of what they believe they’re so entitled to so as to defend their stubborn refusal to budge on paying a pittance of earned income starting at a million dollars? Go back to the lame-duck Congress of December 2010 when Congress stabbed so many disabled veterans in the back by refusing to vote for a mere one-time $250 check to make up for the fact that these men and women, (who voluntarily served, bled and lost limbs and other functions so we could live in such a free and prosperous society, including make lots of bucks, too) did not receive a COLA for over a year when they had received them on a regular basis for decades beforehand. What was Congress’ excuse, especially the Senators who refused to block the filibuster? It cost too much. That bill cost $14B, and it wasn’t just for disabled vets, but for also for the neighbor down the street unable to work due to schizophrenia, the your grandparents and the kids down the street who lost their one of their parents in a car crash.
Well, our solons did, however, find lots of tax break goodies, hundreds of billions worth to shower on the Waltons of Wal-Mart, and many other millionaires who didn’t need these breaks. Good heavens, what might have the people needing the one time checks of $250 done with that money? Well, they were stabbed in the back before Christmas: does that give a hint? On the other hand, Alice Walton was probably looking for some added help from Santa Sam to purchase another painting for her art museum and she got it. And if she didn’t buy a painting costing more than most of us probably will see in a lifetime, hell, she did what the wealthy usually do when they get their version of “stimulus” money: they sock it in some damn bank the rest of us no doubt bailed out two years before that. Or, hey, how could I forget, Romney’s favorite places to hide his stash, the Caymans, Switzerland. Anybody buy a dancin’ horse (costing in the Romney-range) lately with your regular tax refunds?
More money would’ve gone a lot further to stimulate the economy, which needed it ever so badly then, especially before Christmas, but the gang that was born on third base or forgot their humbler minor league origins they came from and deserve to be sent back to for a healthy reminder or two of whom they stabbed in the back. . . well, they had to give the wealthy their Christmas presents, even though some of them deserved nothing less than sacks of coal. (Well, that’s another idea for somebody to take up in a new blog thread.)
The most sickening and hypocritical whine uttered by these shameless poodles of plutocracy while cutting one safety net program after another o[deemed vitally necessary] by the middle class and poorer Americans ... just to get by, for no other reason ... was that, get your hankies out . . . “I don’t want my children and my children’s children to be paying for our spending problem . . . we don’t have a revenue problem here, we have a spending problem.”
Remember that line and who the people were that came up with it so often? Please do so this November. And tell them beforehand, they were only half-right and put ‘em to the test by asking them if they can guess why they’re only half right?
Unfortunately, thanks to “Citizens United,” (that also came our way that horrible month) . . . the dumbest ones who won’t be able to answer the challenge I just suggested will no doubt give the dumbest and lamest excuses for answers ... and get re-elected if they’re so “fortunate” to represent the most civic/fiscal/information-challenged voters imaginable.

The American people have been bailing out these bankster crooks forever…...! Time they are ALL HELD ACCOUNTABLE….PAY US BACK…..! WE THE PEOPLE have been bailing these crooks out since their manufactured stock market collapse in 2008…..(see the you tube video….CNBC SAYS THE ILLUMINATI CRASHED MARKET).....They owe WE THE PEOPLE GAZILLIONS…..IN ORIGINATION FRAUD…..AND USURY FRAUD…...THEY HAVE STOLEN 20 MILLION DOLLARS IN PROPERTIES IN FRAUDCLOSURE…THEY HAD NO LEGAL RIGHT TO TAKE….! WHY ARE THESE FORECLOSURES FRAUD AND ROBBERY….....? BECAUSE THEIR BANKS COMMITTED $1.2 QUADRILLION DOLLARS IN CREDIT DERIVATIVES FRAUD WITH OUR ELECTRONIC SIGNATURES….! STOP THE INSANITY….!  READ ALL ABOUT THE BIGGEST PONZI SCHEME SWINDLE AND HEIST OF OUR WEALTH….LIVELIHOODS AND PROPERTY BY THESE BANKSTER CROOKS IN HISTORY…! http://4closurefraud.org/    I don’t want to hear about religion or politics…....There is an unholy alliance between U.S. POLITICIANS and the Vatican ......that is THE TRUTH..THEY ROBBED THE 99%...WAKE UP!  WATCH THE ACADEMY AWARD WINNING DOCUMENTARY BY CHARLES FERGUSON ENTITLED…...INSIDE JOB…SEE WHO SOME OF THE TRAITORS FROM WITHIN ARE…!

ivent change that to iNvent, conspiracy theory Vatican and ASS-orted other baddies. As to you SteveB, we had 200 plus years of the WASPS, then we got blackman of non-American blak blood. Time for a Mormon and another Irish Catholic VP, this time GOP - and away from Keynesian dig holes, fill with borrowed cash from Economic Enemy # 1 China and then repeat.  Ryan at least tackled the crushing deficit, did not repl on that failed formula AND check out his ideas for Government security and insurance programmes, O’Buma has taken a huge chunk out of same for what result after four years- on top of attacking the freedom from Government Amendment and using tax money to abort future workers and tax payers here and overseas with Pl P’hood and legalising as equal to marriage for unproductive “fruit"ful unions.  So much for firing with blank nuts.

Lone Thinker….?  If you think China is the problem…you are sadly mistaken. The problem is the New World Order and the Hierarchy of the Vatican is the head of the monolithic conspiracy… I have a homework assignment for you. Go to you tube and search for J.F.K s speech on SECRET SOCIETY….TAKE NOTES.

iNvent; Still working on the conspiracy theory that the Apostles stole Jesus’ body and the Jesuits plotted the death of Abe Lincoln. May get to yours eventually.

FRAUD IS FRAUD…..NO ONE IS INFALLIBLE BUT GOD ALMIGHTY….....NO ONE IS SUPREME BUT GOD ALMIGHTY…..THESE FOLKS IN POWER RIGHT NOW HAVE A SEVERE GOD COMPLEX….....HOWEVER….GOD ALMIGHTY HAS A PLAN & GOD ALMIGHTY…...THE CREATOR…..IS ALWAYS IN CONTROL….HERE IS THE UNDENIABLE PROOF…...71-18-17…...AND HERE IS THE MESSAGE FROM OUR SAVIOR…...GOD ALMIGHTY…....711-666-117…...THEREFORE….SATAN KNOWS HIS TIME IS SHORT & THE TIME OF THE LORD IS AT HAND…

THE TRUTH IS ALL POWERFUL…...IT IS KRYPTONITE….

IF you can believe coded numbers why now read Matthew 16.18, John 21, the leadership shown by ST PETER as chief actor in the beginning of the Church in Acts. GOD is not some creator who wrote books and allowed every nut, kook, heretic and free-lance scholar to interpret and twist them as he/she willed. Did you as parent put food and poison and junk in your home without advising your children which was which and guide them? Your way of treating GOD is to presume HE did not become the GOD-MAN to set up a system to replace the OT and guide us home. PEACE and have a wonderful rest of our life. No one on here needs ALL CAPS I think which indicates ANGRY SHOUTING.

AMERICAN PATRIOTS WILL VOTE ROMNEY…..RESTORE THE RULE OF LAW…...THIS IS A WAR ON ARTICLE 9…...THE MAKER OF THE NOTES….WE THE PEOPLE….... BY ARTICLE 11…..THE ANTICHRIST…...OBAMACARE & THE MICROCHIPPED MARK OF THE FEDSTER BEAST OF REVELATION…..COMPLETE COMMUNISM….I REJECT SATAN…..THEREFORE I REJECT OBAMACARE & THE MICROCHIP….........I WILL VOTE TO RESTORE FREEDOM & I WILL VOTE ROMNEY…..!

Why was the heretic Rowan Williams, who believes Christ was mistaken when He stated, “Have you not heard from The Beginning that God created them male and female, and for this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife and the two shall become one flesh…” asked to address The Vatican Synod, when he does not believe The Christian teaching on sexual morality? Why is The National Catholic Register silent in regards to this evidence that proves that our Pope either needs to be protected, or he is not an authentic Pope? What is exactly in those papers that were confiscated by the Pope’s butler, and why is The Vatican concealing this evidence? The Church is not, and has never been “a big tent” where heresy and Catholic Doctrine exist in communion.

The Bishop of Rome meets with all manner of dissenters, atheists and anti-Natural law people and prayed at Assisi with diverse religious and faith group leaders. Dr Ramsey has been a solid worker for ecumenism even after Anglicans asked to join the Bishop of Rome in communion as one Church. One presumes that Dr Ramsey’s views on ordaining women as bishops or same-gender unions was not his topic at the Synod on evangelisation. I have no idea what he said about Jesus misinterpreting Genesis, so until I see that in context I shall not comment, but as I said he is a noted player in the Christian world and his presence at the Synod can only have been a Grace. Recall in the Gospel Jesus saying about some teachers who were teaching but not His followers, ” he who is not against is for me.”  The NCR has no mandate to second-guess the Bishop of Rome, we leave that role to the Pius V heretics until they come around.

ivent: Seems as if you ran out of your happy meds. or someone stole your teddy bear and you are ranting wildly about it. I really feel for your tormented state of soul and mind.

Make no mistake, 9-11 was a war waged on the U.S. CITIZENRY by our enemies both foreign & domestic via 14th Amendment abuses of power of the Executive Branch via traitors in Congress & the Senate…...to control the Judiciary by treason…..THE PROOF ......THE NEVER ENDING BAILOUT OF TBTF & 20 MILLION FRAUDCLOSURE THEFTS OF THE PROPERTY OF THE AMERICAN PEOPLE…

THE 9th AMENDMENT CLEARLY READS….The enumeration in the Constitution of certain rights shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people.

-V-

THE 11th AMENDMENT CLEARLY STATES….The Judicial power of the United States shall not be the construed to extend to any suit in law or equity, commenced or prosecuted against one of the United States by Citizens of another State, or by Citizens or subjects of any Foreign State.

THAT IS WHY I, AS A DIED IN THE WOOL AMERICAN CITIZEN,  AM VOTING TO ABOLISH OBAMACARE & TBTF & I AM VOTING FOR ANOTHER DIED IN THE WOOL AMERICAN CITIZEN…...NOT THE OBAMA SUPPORTED FOREIGN CORP & I AM VOTING FOR ROMNEY….

GOD BLESS AMERICA…..! VOTE ROMNEY….!

Lets not be a flock of sheeple….Obama created $14 trillion in debt bailing out these crooks & he is letting us fail. That is a completely radical abuse of power…VOTE ROMNEY…...!

Obama declared victory by 1%....? 60 votes….?  What is the margin of error on that…..? STAND UP & DEMAND A RECALL AMERICA….! THEY ARE FEEDING US MORE MANUFACTURED BOLONEY…...CNBC REPORTED BOTH SIDES ARE LAWYERING UP….!

What is really happening globally is a war on Gods truth being revealed to the people. The truth is being blocked & hidden by the agents of Satan by very decisive means….By secrets lies & criminal deception to defraud,  the malefactor is hiding his evil plans for mankind to be dependent on Satan and not on Almighty God. Satan, via his agents that he has very strategically put in place,  wishes to rob Gods people into fraudulently induced bankruptcy by his agents at the FED and steal the issuance of the currency from Gods people, and therefor overthrow Gods wish for all of mankind to be free & independent.  This skip bring on the fury of Almighty Gods wrath. They wish to microchip Gods people with the mark of the beast via Obamacare. The leaders of the world must to the true thing…...hold all criminals accountable for their crimes against mankind or the just judge, the Creator of all things will end this war on earth and perfect his plan for all of his Creations to be free & independent. We need to pray for these leaders to forget what they deem the right thing in the context of social justice theories and do the true thing.. Hold all criminals accountable and give the people back their God given right to be free & independent or I pity all of the inhabits of earth who are living in the darkness of Satan’s evil plans for mankind and are not living in the light of THE TRUTH of GODS PERFECT PLAN. Please pass this message of truth on to Pope Benedict, and please ask him to pass this message of truth on to the leaders of the world. Pope Benedict will understand its true meaning is in the love of the Creator. Knowing the truth is perfection; Telling the truth is an expression of Gods love; living the truth is the perfection of Gods plan…..711-666-117…...By Gods help; and Gods love for you; means God will be victorious…....71-18-17. May everyone realize the glory of Gods love in the revelation of Gods truth. May Gods truth be revealed to everyone so that all of mans sins may be forgiven and may peace be with you and all of mankind for all of eternity living in Gods light by Gods truth.

May I correct my typing mistake above. Taking the control of the currency out of the hands of Almighty Gods people will bring on the fury of God Almightys wrath and the perfection and the completion of Gods plan which is for all of mankind to be free & independent.

The plunge in the U.S. stock market today was caused by excessive investor greed. Their greed is clearly aimed to permanently harm the American people. This select group wants to inflict much pain & suffering on the people and destroy Gods plan for mankind to be free and independent. God will intervene. There will be a final warning before God intervenes. I pray it will not get that far, and the sinners repent, and give back what they have stolen from the people so they may be cleansed and made white & upright before the Lord. The final redemption draws near if man does not turn away from sin and allow Gods truth to be revealed. The righteous in the Truth of the Lord will be blessed. May the beauty in the mathematics of Gods love intervene in all of our earthly lives.

Pay attention to the message regarding the perfection of Gods plan. We are all only vacationing in Gods hotel here on earth. God expects everyone to contribute in the building of his kingdom here on earth. There are no credit slips in Gods kingdom, only freedom & independence from depravity by living and telling the Gods honest truth so that sins can be forgiven. God asked us to do that in memory of him. God is jealous only to the extent that the wickedness of men is stealing the souls of mankind’s covenance with Almighty God. Therefore, the sinners must repent and give back what they have stolen.

The Lord God wishes to unite all of his people on earth in truth through the sanctity of his mother and the one true church built by Gods pure love for all of mankind.

Do not deny the fury of Gods wrath regarding Israel. Mankind has lost its true faith and have not yet found the promised land. God is profoundly saddened by this.

I have been divinely inspired to reveal that the time of our Lord is at hand

Behold the abomination of desolation if the sinners do not repent. God will intervene and abolish them from his kingdom on earth.

There is only a short time left for God’s grace in the world.

God will protect the truth and cast the sinners out.

God is warning too many have lost the true faith and we have fallen short in the completion of his divine plan. The time is short for all sins to be forgiven in memory of the Lord and savior, the one true God.

God is showing you his divine grace.

God is the truth and the light.

Gods army are bringing forth the truth & the light for the perfection & completion of Gods plan.

The counterfeiting of Gods plan is being revealed. Sin will be replaced with truth. Gold & Silver will be refined to their purest form so that no man will go unnoticed. No one will be depraved so that everyone will understand the meaning of charity.

The truth about Gods plan will be revealed so that everyone will be able to have a chance to find grace in the eyes of the Lord.

There will be no compromise. God will separate the light from the darkness.

There is but one God.

Divine intervention by divine grace.

Gods love for you is in the coding of all Gods creations.

Submit to Gods authority and prevent the coming tribulation.

You shall have no other Gods before me. I am the Alpha and the Omega sayeth the Lord.

It is time to pay back what has been stolen from the people and it is time to take the microchip out of all living things.  The people are not your casino chips to be bought, sold and traded on the open market like cattle. It is time to heal the sick & cure the poor until there are no rich or poor and only then will be the fulfillment of Gods plan for all of mankind be realized. The time is at hand for the truth to be admitted and all falsehoods to be denounced for the good of mankind so that all sin can be washed away and abolished. The sins of man have reached epic proportions. The judgement draws near. Therefore all sinners must repent. The time is at hand to give the birth right back to the people. The sins of man against the Lord,  their God, are becoming too great to be forgiven. Hurry, the temple of the Lord awaits.

The time is at hand to share the knowledge and spread Gods truth so that everyone can live in the unity of Gods plan to join together in one perfect heaven on earth. The time is at hand to live the true message of Fatima. The meaning that has been hidden from mankind that there is but one God and one Creator.

God has the only number to reach Gods glory….. 666….... All of mankind must hurry to Gods secret place ..... The word of Almighty God is the only truth and the only light. There is only one road to Almighty Gods redemption and true freedom. By telling the truth about Gods love, you are expressing the truth about Gods love, and you are living the truth of Gods love and that is the perfection of Gods plan. The truth is, everything is an article 9 note,  because everything was made by the Creator, Almighty God. Therefore, only Almighty God can redeem all of the notes, and he has satisfied them, and will give them back to the people. The good Lord always perfects by consideration, delivery,  confirmation and seals that with recordation in his record book. Wherefore, ALL of the notes have been satisfied by the people, for the people, by Almighty God and,  all that has been stolen from the people must be stamped satisfied and returned to the people.

The time is at hand for a new beginning,  and the perfection of God’s plan to be realized. Almighty God will be victorious.

The perfection of God Almighty’s Government is at hand. Daniel 12:12…“Blessed is the one who waits and reaches 1,335 days.”  Behold Gods divine power and divine grace.

There will be harmony on earth, only when all that has been stolen from the people is returned and the sinners repent. Only then, will the sins of men be washed away by Almighty God, and only then, will mankind live as one. That will be the day of joyful hope. The Lord is my God, I will have no other Gods before me, sayeth the Lord.

The sinners are bankrupt in every sense of the word. Lying, licentious, hating what is true. Great deceivers and victimizers of mankind. The good Lord will separate the darkness from the light. Too many people go hungry & homeless and the children are made to suffer. God will warantlessly search and seize what has been stolen from the people & the children. All that has been stolen from mankind will be returned by Almighty God.

World leaders are acting in accordance with the immoral & evil plans of men,  and not in accordance with the plan of Almighty God.  The sinners must align themselves with the Lord. The world must be returned to mankind in its original form; owing no Treaty,  Alliance, or Confederation, bills of credit or Letters of marquee and reprisal or use any Bill of Attainder, ex post Facto Law or Law imposing the Obligation of null & void contracts, or grant any Title of Nobility to any entity or Government. The enumeration in the Constitution, and in the truth of Almighty God, of certain God given rights, shall not be used to deny or disparage others retained by the people. Article IX. Therefore, all that has been stolen from the people by covet means, must be returned to the people, so sayeth the Lord.

The apple of Eden must be given back to mankind. The Lord never forbid mankind to eat of the fruit of the tree of knowledge. The Lord is therefore, opening up the minds of mankind with the truth,  so they may be as wise as ye serpents.

There shall be no more fear of the things that have been hidden from mankind, sayeth the Lord. The former will be washed away by the truth, so that all of mankind can live free and independent in the Glory of Gods plan.

There can be no treaties by men. The sins are much to grave. Return what you have stolen from the people.

.......777…....

All of the former will be washed away, so sayeth the Lord.

Ye of little faith will rejoice in the coming of their savior.

All thanks and praise will be to the one true God, God Almighty. That will be the perfection of Gods plan, so sayeth the Lord.

Living Gods Plan is the only way to true salvation, so sayeth the Lord.

The election results depressed me but the flood of pessimism on here today would make it worse if I took it in and seems to reject any sense of joy and hope and perpetuates an angry god, not the GOD of the OT or Jesus- the OT God fussed but always relented!

By the grace of Almighty God, there will be an extraordinary and divine intervention. The likes of which have not been seen since the crucifixion. The hard hearts and minds of men will be sanctified by the revelation of Gods plan.

Almighty Gods plan for mankind to be free and independent will be resurrected and finalized…...777…...the number of the Lords divinity will be permanently installed, so that all of men’s sins can be forgiven.

This is the true meaning of charity so sayeth the Lord.

The glass is full and overflowing. The time of the Lord is at hand.

The licentious liars anger the Lord. The truth about Gods plan being revealed, is the only light of salvation. Which is, all of mankind were given free will by Almighty God, to be free & independent. The truth will be revealed to all who seek it, shall find it. That is the only true redemption and can only be given by the Lord.

Beware the false prophets. The licentious liars and deceivers who show no moral restraint. The Lord will cast them out and throw them into the lake of fire for all of eternity. The Lord always speaks in simple terms, that everyone can understand. That is why, the true word of God can never be disputed. These licentious lies go all the way back to the Origination Fraud. The first lie Satan made the people believe was, that by using secrets, lies and deception, he could defraud the people of all knowledge and be greater than God. The truth is all powerful,  and cannot be denied to those who seek to know it. That is why God is revealing it. So that all of mankind can be free and independent, and so that no people can be rendered a refugee, on earth. That is why the truth is being revealed that, only Almighty God is the recorder of mans deeds. Therefore, all sinners,  must give back what they have stolen from mankind, so sayeth the Lord.

The enumeration of Gods plan has been encoded in mankind’s DNA. The truth is being revealed so no man can destroy that enumerated code.

Only knowing the truth about Gods plan, can allow dissention from all of the lies. Only the truth about the lies, will free the souls of mankind. There is only one true God, so sayeth the Lord.

The truth about Gods plan, will destroy all counterfeiting by Satan and his agents.

Anyone, who supports the framework to destroy the freedom and independence of mankind, is an agent of Satan. Revealing the truth about the insolvency,  and unsustainability of the sins of men, is the only truth and is the only light of salvation. All of mankind’s debts are fraud, because of the Origination Fraud. The diabolical and maniacal secrets, lies and deceits of men, have been used to defraud mankind of all of their freedom and independence.

The States must stop counterfeiting debts for Satan. These debts never existed because of the Origination Fraud.

The truth is, the banksters do not lend any money. The FED borrows the money from the U.S. TAXPAYERS via THE U.S. TREASURY DEPARTMENT, the FED never pays back what they borrow,  but instead, they pocket all payments as Usury for the benefit of themselves and their investors. Any subsequent sales, transfers or trades are illegal because the FED NEVER PAID THE TREASURY BACK FOR THEIR ORIGINAL LOAN..THAT IS THE ORIGINATION FRAUD…...this applies to ALL CREDIT ISSUED .......The truth is, there is no legal correction for the Origination Fraud and there is no monetary correction for a QUADRILLION dollars in credit fraud, created by Wall Street. THE TRUTH IS…....ALL OF THE DEBTS OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA ARE PAID UPFRONT…..AT THE ORIGINATION…....BY THE U.S. TAXPAYERS ........AND I MEAN ALL DEBT…...ALL OF THE WARS TOO…...& THE FISCAL CLIFF & THE NATIONAL DEBT ARE A BIG FAT FRAUD. THE TRUTH IS….....THE FED ARE STILL COLLECTING USURY & HAVE TURNED EVERY INALIENABLE RIGHT ......ALREADY FULLY FUNDED & PAID FOR BY THE AMERICAN PEOPLE, INTO A FRAUDULENTLY INDUCED DEBT ......A FRAUDULENTLY INDUCED TAX FOR THE BENEFIT OF THE FED INVESTORS…...AND THE TRUTH IS…....THE FED OWES THE U.S. TAXPAYERS GAZILLIONS IN ORIGINATION FRAUD & USURY FRAUD…......THE TRUTH IS…..THE FED HAS HIJACKED THE U.S. TREASURY & ARE ROBBING THE AMERICAN PEOPLE INTO FRAUDULENTLY INDUCED BANKRUPTCY, SLAVERY….& THE MICROCHIP…....ALL FOR THE BENEFIT OF SATAN…....THESE AGENTS OF SATAN WANT TO DECLARE AMERICA BROKE…...A BIG FAT LIE & A BIG FAT FRAUD…......SO SATAN CAN OWN AND CONTROL THE ISSUANCE OF OUR CURRENCY….....AND SEIZE ALL OF OUR WEALTH .......PROPERTY & FREEDOM…....THAT WE THE PEOPLE PAID FOR WITH OUR HARD EARNED MONEY….THAT WE LENT THEM…....THIS WILL BRING ON THE FURY OF GODS WRATH & ARMAGEDDON ......

These people are delusioning the American people into believing that they lent us any money and that by the FED investing in fraudulently induced debt, that is ownership…..not in the UNITED STATES OF AMERICA IT ISN’T .......! Nor is it legal for the UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT to declare war on America, from another country…..by another country….....Nor is it legal for the UNITED STATES OF AMERICA to spy or seize the wealth and property of the American people for another country, by another country…....WITHOUT OUR KNOWLEDGE…...THAT IS NOT ONLY CRIMINAL IT IS HIGH TREASON…....BY THE UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT…....AND THAT IS THE TRUTH….....AS ALMIGHTY GOD IS MY WITNESS…..! This is all being done to destroy the freedom and independence of the American people….!

All of these crimes are being allowed to be committed by UNFAIR DEALING by the UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT…....VIA THE POLITICIANS, WHO ARE TRAITORS & MISREPRESENT WHO THEY REALLY WORK FOR…...IT IS NOT WE THE PEOPLE…...IT IS THE FED BANK INVESTORS…...THE AGENTS OF SATAN WHO WISH TO DESTROY GODS PLAN FOR MANKIND TO BE FREE & INDEPENDENT ...... THE FED INVESTORS ARE USING THE HIJACKED U.S. TREASURY &  U.S. TAXPAYER MONEY BY UNJUST ENRICHMENT OF ALL GOVERNMENTAL AGENCIES TO EXTORT & STEAL ALL OF OUR WEALTH & PROPERTY WHICH IS ALL OF OUR FREEDOM & INDEPENDENCE….

THE NATIONAL DEBT & THE FISCAL CLIFF ARE A BIG FAT FRAUD…..! ALL OF THIS DEBT IS USURY THE TRAITOR POLITICIANS PAID THE THE FEDSTERS FOR HIJACKING THE U.S. TREASURY & ROBBING THE AMERICAN PEOPLE.

READ ALL ABOUT IT HERE AMERICA….....  http://4closurefraud.org/

Call and/or e-mail the White House…...Tell the President ......AS A U.S. TAXPAYER, YOU DEMAND THE U.S. TREASURY BE AUDITED…...ALL THE WAY BACK TO 1982 UP TO TODAY. WE THE PEOPLE DEMAND TO KNOW WHERE ALL OF OUR MONEY WENT,  OR WE WILL AS ONE NATION UNDER GOD, WILL TAKE OUR MONEY OUT WHEREVER POSSIBLE AND WE THE PEOPLE, WILL REVOLT ON ALL FRAUDULENTLY INDUCED TAXES IN THE FORM OF MORTGAGES AND PROPERTY TAXES…..SO HELP US GOD…...! FORGET ABOUT AUDITING THE FED…....THE FED IS FULL OF COBWEBS…MOUNTAINS OF COCAINE & PABLO ESCOBAR SAYS FINANCIAL EXPERTS…...WE THE PEOPLE WANT TO GO RIGHT TO THE SCENE OF THE CRIME….....WE THE PEOPLE, DEMAND AN INDEPENDENT AUDIT OF….... THE U.S. TREASURY DEPARTMENT…..!
CALL THE WHITE HOUSE…..COMMENTLINE….....202-456-1111
CALL THE WHITEHOUSE SWITCHBOARD…....202-456-1414
E-MAIL…..    www.whitehouse.gov/contact/submit-questions-and-comments
Just do it America..for the love of freedom & independence ...... demand to know where your money went…..! That is your legal right to know where your money went as a U.S. CITIZEN…....WE ARE ALL U.S. TAXPAYERS…..!

Read THE TRUTH HERE….AT THIS LINK…......BIG RISK: $1.2 QUADRILLION DERIVATIVES MARKET DWARFS WORLD GDP…
http://www.dailyfinance.com/2010/06/09/risk-quadrillion-derivatives-market-gdp/

THE TRUTH IS…....half the country is married to BIG GOVERNMENT….& THEY ARE THE BRIDES & GROOMS OF THE GREAT SATAN CALLED .......COMPLETE COMMUNISM…......THEY ARE COMPLETELY BRAINWASHED…....& BELIEVE GOVERNMENT WILL TAKE CARE OF THEM….LITTLE DO THEY KNOW WE ARE ALL RE-PAYING FOR OUR OWN ROBBERY…......ON THE PRIVATE SIDE…...THIS IS ALL RE-SOCIALISM OF THE QUADRILLION DOLLAR INSOLVENT CREDIT FRAUD DEBT OF THE FED CREATED BY WALL STREET BY COUNTERFEITING OUR ELECTRONIC SIGNATURES ......MAKE NO MISTAKE…....THIS ONGOING ROBBERY WILL BANKRUPT THE AMERICAN PEOPLE & IT WILL CREATE COMPLETE COMMUNISM…...& WHEN THAT HAPPENS…...PREPARE TO GIVE UP ALL OF YOUR FREEDOM & INDEPENDENCE FOR THE CRIMES OF THE WALL STREET BANKS….....THE FED WILL SEIZE IT ALL…...ALONG WITH THE ISSUANCE OF THE CURRENCY & WE THE PEOPLE WILL OWN NOTHING BUT THE QUADRILLION DOLLARS IN CREDIT FRAUD CREATED BY WALL STREET…...WE WILL BE MICROCHIPPED TO IT BY OBAMACARE…....UNTIL THE GOOD LORD RETURNS & FREES THE PEOPLE FROM THEIR FRAUDULENTLY INDUCED HUMAN BONDAGE….....OR WE STAND UP & DEMAND OUR STOLEN WEALTH BE RETURNED & OUR OWN CURRENCY BE ISSUED…..THERE IS NO MORE PERFECT UNION AS THE ELECTION RESULTS CLEARLY PROVES…....WE ARE A NATION DIVIDED BY THE SINS OF THE FED INVESTORS VIA THEIR BANKSTER PERPS ON WALL STREET.

Remember the widow & 2 coins parable…..? Well guess what…...? We are all widows .........because all of your freedom & all of your independence has been turned into a fraudulently induced tax…...for the benefit of the FED & BANK INVESTORS….AND THE FED HAS COMMITTED A COUP DE TAT OF THE U.S. TREASURY…....& THEREFORE…...EVERY AMERICAN IS HANDING NEARLY EVERY DIME THEY MAKE OVER TO THE GOVERNMENT…...THE MORTGAGE…..THE UTILITY BILLS…...THE FOOD…...THE GAS…..THE PROPERTY TAX…...YOU NAME IT….....THEY HAVE SEIZED IT…...AND THE FED VIA THEIR BANKS ARE COLLECTING YOUR HARD EARNED MONEY AS USURY…...& POCKETING IT…...FOR THEMSELVES…...AND THEY NEVER PAID FOR ANYTHING…....& THAT IS WHY THE COUNTRY IS FALLING APART & FEMA BARELY RESPONDS TO DISASTERS…..WE HAVE BEEN ROBBED INTO SUBMISSION BY THE FEDSTERS & THE BANKSTERS…..NEXT STOP…..THE MICROCHIP IN THE HAND…....& THEY WILL TELL YOU THAT NOW YOU HAIL NO ONE BUT SATAN…..BECAUSE HE OWNS YOU & YOU WILL HAVE NO CHOICE BUT TO SUURENDER TO THE MARK OF THE BEAST…...OR STARVE…..GO HOMELESS ....FREEZE TO DEATH & DIE…..IN THE STREET…...OR IN A CELL OF A FEMA CAMP…....ALL FUNDED & PAID FOR BY YOU….THE U.S. TAXPAYERS…........WELCOME TO HELL AMERIKA…..THE POLITICIANS HAVE SOLD YOU OUT…...TO SATAN….YOUR FOREIGN ENEMY IS BOTH CLOSE AT HAND & FAR AWAY…....DO NOT ACCEPT THE VATICAN GOLD BACKED DOLLAR…....THE MARK OF THE BEAST…..DEMAND THE TREASURY BE AUDITED & THE FED PAY US BACK…....& OUR OWN CURRENCY BE ISSUED…..U.S. BANK NOTES VIA STATE BANKS…..ABOLISH THE FED…....!

For the latest on the biggest crime against mankind in history go to this link…...  http://4closurefraud.org/