He writes:
I have recently become interested in the Catholic Charismatic movement. I was wondering if you can point me to any writings you may have on the topic with respect to reconciling this movement with the more traditional form of Catholic worship. I am a quiet person and have reservations about the charismatic movement due to images of people acting hysterical, rolling on the floor during prayer services, etc. I don't even know if these images are true. My reservations, aside from the outwardly emotional aspect of it that does not fit my personality, are:
1. This looks nothing like how the historcial church worshipped. It seems like a novelty in Catholic history (aside from maybe Pentecost). Is this a bad thing?
The Charismatic Renewal is one of a million socially-conditioned responses to the gospel in the Catholic community. It’s been influenced by Protestant Evangelical and Pentecostal culture but is still rooted in the core of Catholic worship: the Mass. It has, like all human things, it’s plusses and minuses, but generally more plus than minus. The charismatics I know tend to be consistently devout, faithful, obedient Catholics full of the fruits of the Spirit. By their fruits you know them. Some groups can be overly emotional and if that’s not your speed, you are under no obligations to buy in. But as a rule, I am fond of charismatics.
2. How would the Church Fathers react if they were to be transported in time into a charismatic service? It seems they be taken aback by such a sight. Is this a valid concern?
Or they might just think they were at the Corinthian Church Paul knew. If it comes to it, there is a great deal in the modern Church that is perfectly legitimate--everything from the devotion to the Sacred Heart to Eucharistic adoration to the Mercy Novena--that would be strange to many of the Fathers. And there are things that pre-date the Fathers, such as glossalalia, that petered out with time as a common phenomenon, but still pop up here and there in Catholic circles. The Fathers would be familiar with the fact that the Church is a very strange and diverse place. Charismatics are one of a huge number of Catholic subcultures who demonstrate that delightful fact.
3. How is this seen from an Eastern Orthodox point of view (not that we should necessarily be concerned with how they view us but I think it is a concern given the desire for reunfication of East and West)?
I think it would undoubtedly look Protestantized. But the measure of Catholic private piety is not “What will the Orthodox think?” It is the fruits of the Spirit: love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, gentleness, faithfulness, self-control.




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In case anyone is interested, here is a treatment of the subject from Servant of God, Fr. Hardon:
http://www.therealpresence.org/archives/Protestantism/Protestantism_002.htm
The only problem I can see with the Charismatic movement is the possibility of them coming to trust their emotions and experiences instead of the Catholic Church. Emotions are the driving force behind man, thus very powerful. I have heard and seen cases where these groups start spouting beliefs that are not Catholic. This is specific to the Charismatic movement but to any group in the church that is highly emotional and has it’s own identity.
Part of that issue is that I have heard people involved with the Charismatic Movement discussing how one person interprets the ‘tongues’ another is speaking. From hearing some of the ‘interpretations’, some of them were totally contrary to Church teaching. How do we know that the interpreter is guided by Holy Spirit, by ego, by a need for power, or even Satan.
This is one of the reasons I have chosen not to get involved with it locally. I know my weaknesses.
I have heard that the Charismatic phenomenon has popped up in at least the Ukrainian Orthodox church.
As mentioned in the article, the Charismatic movement has its pros and cons like anything else. However, it is our diversity within these subcultures of the Catholic Church that I appreciate most about our church. God created us all in a unique and unrepeatable way, so it would make sense that each of us has a unique spirituality. I love that our church is one that brings us all together, while still making room for these various spiritualities.
Very interesting. I’ve been around some charismatic services but I was always left very uncomfortable by them. But then I am a serious introvert, so it figures.
Read an excerpt from the book: Motherhood of the Entire Church | Henri de Lubac, S.J. | From The Motherhood of the Church at the link: http://www.ignatiusinsight.com/features2007/hdelubac_motherchurch_apr07.asp
Here is a book review of this book: http://credo.stormloader.com/Reviews/delubac.htm
Here is the book sold by Ignatius Press: http://www.ignatius.com/Products/MC-P/motherhood-of-the-church.aspx
I thank you for your instruction and correcting me. I do not know if I will ever experience this, but, I have had some experiences that are un-describable before the Holy Eucharist and after receiving Holy Communion and praying the Prayer of Gratitude on the back of my relic holy card of Blessed Fr. Jerzy Popieluszko. My prayer and hope is to remain totally faithful to the Pope, to the Church, to God and keep growing in love with Christ’s Real Presence in the Holy Eucharist and keep showing him love and reverence. My final sharing on this article, I’ll let the experts talk among yourselves here in the combox and I’ll read and study what you share to learn about this movement.
@ Darlene: why did you call Joseph Ratzinger Karl? Mr. Mark Shea, who is this Karl Ratzinger? I searched the name and it came to Pope Emeritus Benedict XVI; Joseph Ratzinger. Why do some people do not like Pope Benedict XVI? I will look into those other writers.
Please check out the writings of Father Raniero Cantalamessa. He has been preacher to the papal household since the early 80’s. He was appointed by JP2 and has been preaching to no less than then Karl Ratzinger ever since. He is a popular speaker in the Catholic Charismatic movement. I am a Charismatic who became completely
Catholic in 2012. Meaning, I have retained the blessing of the Holy Spirit in this particular manner and now also have the blessing of the completeness of the Catholic faith.
I’d recommend Dr. Alan Schreck’s books on the Holy Spirit for a sense of the theology and history undergirding the Catholic Charismatic Movement, Ralph Martin’s books for sense of what it has been and a glimpse of being deeply charismatic tends to draw one more deeply into the heart of the church, and note that Franciscan University of Steubenville is what it is because of the Catholic Charismatic renewal. Also, look up ICCRS, the Vatican office for the international charismatic renewal. See also John Allen’s Future Church for a discussion of the burgeoning role of the Charismatic Movement in the church.
I agree completely. Mark! Coming from a Protestant background that eschewed the Protestant Charismatic movement (one pastor referred to Speaking in Tongues as “Pig-Latin Hogwash”) I carried that baggage with me when I converted to Catholicism, and I consider myself more “Traditional” than “Charismatic”. I was really introduced to the Catholic Charismatic Renewal at Franciscan University of Steubenville, and I can tell you that the Charismatic Catholics I encountered there were some of the most genuinely Christian people I have ever met.
I like reading books by Hans Urs Von Balthasar, Henri de Lubac, Pope Emeritus Benedict XVI, St. Teresa of Avila, Fr. Reginald Garrigou-Lagrange, St. John of the Cross, Blessed Columba Marmion, St. John of Avila, St. Maximus the Confessor, Fr. Thomas A Kempis’ Imitation of Christ, St. Augustine of Hippo, St. Francis Borgia, St. Peter of Alcantara; personal spiritual director of St. Teresa of Avila; Fr. Romano Guardini, Blessed John Duns Scotus, St. John Vianney, St. Peter Julian Eymard. I also like reading my Catholic Douay Rheims bible and getting into reading the great Biblical Scholar; Fr. Marie-Joseph Lagrange.
Not sure if these writers and saints were part of this movement we are speaking about here on this article; but, when I read their books; it is like I’m right next to them when they are writing it or speaking to their scribe on what to write down.
I’ve had years of experience with the Charismatic movement, although not recently.
Generally it is as Mark says. Very good, devout people.
In my experience at Mass with many Charismatic types present, the singing is enthusiastic, but there is little in the way of Charismatic ‘trappings’ that come out, except possibly some glossolalia during time of reflection.
I am so glad that someone pointed out the difference between liturgical activity (Mass, Liturgy of the Hours) and what we’d call a “prayer meeting”. Just because dancing is not specifically prohibited in the GIRM, does not mean it should be done. Ranks up there with hand-holding during the Our Father. But during a prayer meeting, people are more likely to give free reign to their prayerful expressions.
I have seen some “holier than thou” pop up among some groups of charismatics. I knew a fellow who figured he was a prophet. I knew an entire group that went off to follow a renegade priest. But that’s been very rare.
I think you’d be surprised at who you know who is a Charismatic Catholic. Ever asked for prayers and found yourself surrounded by warm-handed people grabbing your head and shoulders? They might be Charismatic!
Nothing to be afraid of. Just test the spirit.
Nope, still in print: http://www.amazon.com/Born-Again-Catholic-Albert-Boudreau/dp/0595128165/ref=sr_1_2?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1372087721&sr=1-2&keywords=The+Born-Again+Catholic
Andrew—no harm, no foul. Most Catholics probably have little experience with it.
Mr. Shea, I had to go find the book so I could give an accurate title and author. The asker of the original question might find it helpful if he can find a copy. It is likely out of print. “The Born-Again Catholic” by Albert H. Boudreau draws heavily on the documents of Vatican II, the writings of Cardinal Suenens, and St. Leo the Great. It’s a good book, though I think the title will likely be a barrier to some Catholics.
your welcome Mark. thank you.
God love you, Andrew! No sweat. Thanks for being a reasonable person!
Everyone, I made a mistake and I thank you for your corrections, please forgive me if you can. I know Pope Francis praised this movement, but, in our Diocese; we don’t have these conferences and so, I just hear by what I read in the history of the Church on how some heresies were started and things like and I’ve never had a chance to go to one of these conferences. I’m sorry for what I have said and please forgive my ignorance.
Andrew B. The difference between “dancing in the spirit” and “liturgical dance” is one of performance. Dancing in the spirit, everybody is invited to dance. Liturgical dance is more often performance art, where one or a company of dancers are displaying their art.
BTW, in the General Instruction, Liturgical dance isn’t entirely forbidden, just some forms of it like ballet, where the art form is more pornographic than worshipful.
I grew up with the charismatic movement, and I miss it. The two biggest reasons I no longer participate in such things:
1. I’m now in an urban parish where charismatics tend to be a bit cafeteria
in their beliefs; and they tend towards supporting things like family planning and women’s ordination that I can no longer believe in.
2. That one woman whose idea of glossalalia was baby talk turned me off to the whole phenomenon. I used to be quite interested in it due to my interest in languages.
Andrew B.
Dancing in the Spirit at a prayer meeting or praise and worship service is NOT liturgical dancing. I have seen Charismatics go from the mass into a service of praise and worship (praising and worshiping our God is proper after mass, is it not) that included dancing, but never DURING the mass.
Here is what Pope Francis has to say about Charismatics:
http://www.zenit.org/en/articles/pope-to-catholic-charismatic-renewal-tell-them-i-love-them-very-much
Sounds of Wonder: Speaking in Tongues in the Catholic Tradition
http://amzn.com/080912002X
...is a great book that shows speaking in tounges never disappeared in the church. Unfortunately, the book is out of print and hard to find.
Beccolina:
Yes. Your description of your experience pretty well comports with mine. As a rule, my experience of charismatics is that it is a subculture in the Church full of light, love, joy, and simplicity. Lovely people, by and large.
Andrew B:
I think you mean Montanus, not Arius. As to the rest of your bill of indictment, I would suggest getting to know some charismatics. Lovely people, full of the the fruit of the Spirit and typically docile to the Church. I don’t see charismatics typically trying to force dance into the liturgy. That seems to more of a liberal greying nun in sensible shoes thing. People who want liturgical dance, like people who want to indulge in public nudism, tend to never be the people who *should* be attempting that. :) I’ve never seen an actual talented dancer who was beautiful to behold do it. I’ve seen lots of videos of frumpy aging geezers with two left feet and some vendetta against The Man do it. I’ve never seen charismatics do it. They generally aren’t involved in the Renewal out of some leftist desire to subvert the Church in the name of Liberation. They just love Jesus. They may have some well-meaning and wacky stuff they pick up from time to time. But the best approach to that is the way of Priscilla and Aquila, who took in the well-meaning Apollos and “explained to him the way of God more accurately”, not charged him with heresy.
His Holiness Pope Emeritus Benedict XVI in his book The Spirit of the Liturgy and The Feast of Faith; another book on the Liturgy; he beautifully writes and teaches on the Sacred Liturgy and what is true and what is not; Liturgical Dancing he says and I quote: “Liturgical Dancing
Dancing is not a form of expression for the Christian liturgy. In about the third century, there was an attempt in certain Gnostic-Docetic circles to introduce it into the liturgy. For these people, the Crucifixion was only an appearance. Before the Passion, Christ had abandoned the body that in any case he had never really assumed. Dancing could take the place of the liturgy of the Cross, because, after all, the Cross was only an appearance. The cultic dances of the different religions have different purposes—incantation, imitative magic, mystical ecstasy— none of which is compatible with the essential purpose of the liturgy of the “reasonable sacrifice”. It is totally absurd to try to make the liturgy “attractive” by introducing dancing pantomimes (wherever possible performed by professional dance troupes), which frequently (and rightly, from the professionals’ point of view) end with applause. Wherever applause breaks out in the liturgy because of some human achievement, it is a sure sign that the essence of liturgy has totally disappeared and been replaced by a kind of religious entertainment. Such attractiveness fades quickly—it cannot compete in the market of leisure pursuits, incorporating as it increasingly does various forms of religious titillation. I myself have experienced the replacing of the penitential rite by a dance performance, which, needless to say, received a round of applause. Could there be anything farther removed from true penitence? Liturgy can only attract people when it looks, not at itself, but at God, when it allows him to enter and act. Then something truly unique happens, beyond competition, and people have a sense that more has taken place than a recreational activity. None of the Christian rites includes dancing. [The Spirit of the Liturgy, (SF, CA: Ignatius, 2000), p. 198]” If you want to see more of what he says and teaches, go here to this link: http://www.ceciliaschola.org/notes/benedictonmusic.html#Liturgical_Dancing
Before this becomes a fight zone, I want to thank you for a fair and even-handed treatment of the Charismatic renewal/movement. I was raised within a Catholic Charismatic home and my grandparents (who live in your neck of the woods) used to record all the talks for the Western Washington Catholic Charismatic Conference. The image of Charismatics as performing wild, weird gyrations is not accurate for the vast majority, and I’ve never seen it among Catholic Charismatics. At its core, the Charismatic movement intends to bring and individual closer to God through an openness to the Holy Spirit and the charisms of the Holy Spirit. IF that openness it there, the person and the group grow in holiness, reverence and joy—such abundant joy. Perhaps the best example of a Charismatic community I can think of is the Disciples of Our Lord Jesus Christ in Prayertown, near Channing, TX (the sisters Fr. Frank Pavone stayed with for a time, yes). Though praise and worship, sometimes very lively and loud praise and worship (with songs that would make the self-identified liturgical music snobs out there faint dead away, I’m afraid) and dancing in the Spirit are part of it, so is reverent, silent prayer. I have seen, at a Charismatic healing mass, a large church packed to standing room only, with every person in there silent on their knees before the blessed sacrament, and every attending priest and deacon fully prostrate. I saw, at the same mass, hands laid upon the sick and the sick healed—the wheelchair-bound walked, severe back injuries were healed, and for the first time I was able to face the hurt caused by the man who molested me as a child and forgive him.
The Charismatic renewal does attract those who want an emotional experience. Without a leader or priest who is well grounded in Tradition, Scripture and his own relationship with the Lord, it can be easy for a group to be caught up in the outward things without paying attention to the inward. As you said, by their fruits . . . In my previous parish, the Charismatic group has kept perpetual adoration of the Blessed Sacrament going for over four years now. They come in before and after work, on their lunch breaks, in the middle of the night, so someone is always praying before the Blessed Sacrament. It was the Charismatic part of my life and upbringing that has brought the love of the Sacraments to my heart, and a love of our Faith and Traditions, and the realization that God truly, actually loves me, and not only me, but each and every one of us.
Mark, you should also mention about the bishop Arius who began the heretical movement Arianism; because he went to one of the Early Church’s Charismatic meetings or whatever the meetings are called.
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