I remember the first time I found out that one of my friends had an arranged marriage. I was at a work function and struck up a conversation with a coworker in which I asked him how he and his wife met. When they told me that their marriage had been arranged by their parents, I was stunned. I had spoken to them many times before, and always noticed how much they seemed to enjoy one another's company. In fact, if someone had asked me to name the married couples I knew who seemed most in love, they would have been near the top of the list.
Over time, I would eventually discover that quite a few of my friends had marriages that were mostly arranged by their families. They did have input into the decision-making process, and did meet their future spouses a few times before making any commitments, but the process was directed by their parents. The majority of these friends were from parts of India where that kind of thing is common, and I had a ton of questions for them about how it all worked. It led to a lot of fun and interesting discussions, and what I learned would eventually shatter my notions of what the institution of marriage was all about.
The typical secular American viewpoint is that marriage is about "love," and love is a feeling. The way to find a spouse, the thinking goes, is to find someone you have fun with, and whose presence makes you have all sorts of positive feelings -- that's how you'll know you're "in love." Then, you get married, and the overriding goal of your union is to make sure that both of you experience as much fun and comfort as possible. As long as you and your spouse still feel positive emotions about one another, you'll have a "good marriage."
Within this paradigm, the idea of an arranged marriage was perplexing. How would you know if you and your potential spouse would have fun together? If you only met him or her a few times, how could you be sure you clicked? To the modern American mind, the entire foundation of a marriage was positive feelings, and so entering into a marriage in which you weren't sure the feelings were there seemed like a recipe for disaster.
What I would eventually realize is that my friends had an entirely different understanding of what love and marriage are all about.
First of all, they saw a marriage as being about so much more than the bride and groom alone: Yes, the spouses hoped that they would be happy in their unions, but they also saw their marriages as the coming together of two entire families. The possibility of children was not seen as a tangential, completely optional lifestyle choice that the couple might make if they thought that kids would make them happy; rather, marriage was seen as being intrinsically ordered toward new life, with a hope that each family and all that it stood for would continue into in another generation. Engaged couples approached their nuptials not focused exclusively on how each could achieve as much personal happiness as possible, but also with an eye toward how to honor their birth families as well as their new families by marriage.
What I found most interesting, though, was my friends' understanding of love.
They hoped for the same exciting feelings that American culture calls "love," but they didn't see those emotions as definitive of the concept. They saw love as an action, one that's rooted in mutual self-giving and self-sacrifice. They adhered to this crazy notion that when two people come together in the name of something greater than themselves, and each is willing to sacrifice some of his or her selfish desires to make the other's life easier, that that is what real love looks like.
And they said something else that was surprising to me at the time: That when two people enact this version of love, day in and day out, the feelings come. They may not always have the same intensity of the feelings that modern Americans label "love" (which are undoubtedly too often confused with lust or infatuation), but they run deeper and last longer.
My takeaway from these conversations was not that arranged marriages are always better, or that there are no problems within that system of courtship. Instead, the glimpse these couples gave me into their lives made me completely re-evaluate my understanding of what this institution is all about, and what it means to be in love. If the secular understanding of love were true, then none of these couples should be happy. Yet not only did most of them have successful marriages, but they seemed happier than many people who had followed the typical American wisdom in these matters. They were the experiment that tested the secular hypothesis of love-as-a-feeling, and the hypothesis proved to be false.
I would later come to a much deeper understanding of this subject once I was married myself, and especially once I converted to Catholicism. But I always think back fondly on those conversations with my friends who had arranged courtships, because they were the first to introduce me to the truth that when you have a marriage built on self-sacrifice in the name of something greater, you have a marriage built on love.
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Yes to all you say but that Kiss heavy metal guy on TV has been with ex playmate, Shannon Tweed longer than the Catholic marriages of two sweetheart guys I know whose wives betrayed them and left them for other men. And the Song of Songs in the Bible (aside from the mystical meaning) is all about the fireworks of love and not about having children. But all you say is true but alongside of it, competing things seem to be true too. Why are so few women on earth technically and perfectly stunningly beautiful facially… without makeup? Because it takes them and that beauty to encourage several slothful men on earth into marriage. It’s complex but as simple as you say so it’s a paradoxical area of existence. Thomas Merton said that becoming a saint is getting to normal ( even if he screwed that up royally near the end)...Lord…may normal increase in the marriage area of life for Christians not just for heavy metal yellers ( I can’t call it singing…can you imagine those people singing an actual melody?). One problem is two Popes ( the last two) suggesting we can’t be sure Judas is in hell ( in lower venue contexts…not encyclicals). Two Fathers, Augustine and Chrysostom disagreed with them….there is that little problem of Christ speaking totally dire about Judas. But the young Catholic then says to him or herself….all these people in the media world who are serially married…Tom Cruise, Rod Stewart, Jennifer Lopez, Madonna, Mick Jagger….they might all like Judas not be going to hell either. What the hey? And a reseach poll several years ago commissioned by a Catholic group found 40% of Catholic college girls ( slightly less for guys) having premarital sex. That means that enclosed traditional groups like Amish, Hutterites etc. are safer morally in this area than Catholics…because they actually have community (and probably never use the word.)
There’s a great movie, “Arranged” about a friendship between an Orthodox Jewish woman & a Muslim woman in New York. Both teach in the same school & both have families arranging marriages for them.It’s very respectful & well done.I found a copy in our local library.
In doing family history,I recently found out that one of my greatgrandmothers was married at the age of 12, most likely through an arranged marriage.She had 9 children when she was widowed at the age of 30.
I think the Jewish matchmaking tradition has great wisdom & arranged marriages are not forced upon the couple.Suitable candidates for marriage are screened & presented.The young people make the final choice.It sure beats meeting people in bars or online.
I have to admit I’m puzzled whenever I hear Catholics praise arranged marriages. I don’t see how an arranged marriage could be a valid marriage. If there’s outside pressure to marry someone, that invalidates the marriage, right? I have no problem with parents trying to find spouses for their children but allowing their children to say “no,” but that’s more matchmaking than an arranged marriage.
I agree that love is a decision, not a feeling. However, I don’t think those feelings of being “in love” are a problem in and of themselves; I think they’re essential, actually. It’s only a problem when couples expect to feel that way all the time, for the rest of their lives, and think they’ve “fallen out of love” and might as well get divorced when they don’t. You’re not always going to “feel” in love but can still choose to love someone if you don’t feel that way at the time.
I actually think online could be a great way to meet someone, especially the Catholic singles websites. Online you can say exactly what you’re looking for and be clear that you want someone who shares your values. When it comes to personality traits, the individuals themselves know better than anyone else, including their parents, who they would be compatible with.
Thank you for this article, I really enjoyed it. As I read it I realized that in many ways this explains why, as a convert to the Catholic Church, I have been able to accept and practice some of the “harder” doctrines that I originally did not find compatible to my belief and understanding. “They saw love as an action, one that’s rooted in mutual self-giving and self-sacrifice,” and “That when two people enact this version of love, day in and day out, the feelings come.”
For me, I started practicing the “harder” doctrines well before the understanding and acceptance of them as Truth developed. But I began practicing them as a way to demonstrate my faith and love of God. And eventually, after enacting this version of love, day in and day out, the feelings came.
Bill Bannon, I have never seen anyone string together so many semi-relevant comments into such a garbled wad of nonsense. Did you have a point? If you did, it got lost in your ranting.
Michelle: I was struggling with the same thing!
Sarah: I don’t think Jennifer was advocating arranged marriages. I think she was saying that there are elements from them that we can take away and apply to our own marriages (and elements that are consistent with the Catholic view of marriage, even though arranged marriage as a whole is not consistent). Namely, that love is a decision, and that commitment needs trumps fleeting feelings.
Sarah wrote:
“I actually think online could be a great way to meet someone, especially the Catholic singles websites. Online you can say exactly what you’re looking for and be clear that you want someone who shares your values.”
Hi Sarah, your comments about online sites made me think that possibly in our 2012 society some of the pre-qualified online dating sites may be the modern version of ancient ways…prearranged marriages where someone (via software) has pre-screened a selection of “matches” and it is left to the participants to contact each other to see if they make a good match.
Michelle,
Why did you read me all the way through 18 lines of text? When you see my name, simply skip to something else. It’s so easy to do rather than look to abuse. Do you hire out as a bodyguard? I could use one.
Well, if someone would arrange a marriage for me at this point, I’d be all for it.
But no one wants to that - do they?
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Granted…. arranging a marriage isn’t just pointing out two single people with pulses and thinking they match… you actually have to find a match. And if someone did, I would do it. This being alone is crushing my soul.
Bill, judging from other comments here about your post, no one understands what you’re getting at. I have a feeling you might have a good point somewhere, but you’ll need to connect the dots if you want people to know what it is. I’m sorry I said that so uncharitably before.
Posted by Sarah on Wednesday, Aug 1, 2012 8:58 AM (EST): I have no problem with parents trying to find spouses for their children but allowing their children to say “no,” but that’s more matchmaking than an arranged marriage. “
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You just described a Jewish arranged marriage.Parents “arrange” meetings through matchmakers but do not force the choice of spouse.I realize an arranged marriage in other cultures may be different.
I know of devout Catholic couples who met on Catholic sites & are happily married, but to my knowledge, Catholic sites do not do criminal or civil background checks.You still need to be cautious.
A few weeks back I ran across this: “Love is not merely a feeling but also a decision.” How else to explain loving the unlovable, which we’re all called by Christ to do?
In any case I know of one arranged marriage that turned out well, even after a very rocky start: Mary and Joseph.
Michelle,
Thanks for smacking me again during your apology. No other commenters have read me for all you know. They’re reading Jennifer. Please don’t read me in the future…please.
Having lived in Asia, I have seen arranged marriages in several traditions. I was always amazed at how happy and well-adjusted most, not all, but most of these marriages were. I admired the closeness between the spouses and the love they had for their families and their children. The family is the history and the foundation. The children are the future.
Needless to say, since I am American and my husband is native Japanese, ours was not an arranged marriage, at least not before hand. After we were married one of my English students invited us to a very fancy and expensive restaurant to meet his mother. It turns out that she was a professional “omiai” (marriage arranger). She asked many questions about our background, education, interests and families. I whispered to my husband, “I think she is arranging our marriage!” Thank goodness she put her stamp of approval on our union. She must have been very good at what she did. Our marriage has lasted 42 years!
I am all for arranged marriages, I mean the type where the couple still has the veto option. As long as they still have a free choice, it is a valid marriage. When I was single, which was way too long, I longed for an arranged marriage. I did eventually find someone on my own but the result was I became an older mom which has limited the number of children we have. The whole dating game is so stressful and wastes so much time.
I like that term, “arranged courtship”. The couple themselves decide if they want to make a commitment, but their families are helping them search for compatible potential partners. Many Christians do it informally. A society based on the idea of the centrality and importance of the family… what a concept.
Andy ,
Good comments, thanks!
Renae, A thought about ...“crushing my soul” Get a copy of Emily Stimson’s book THE CATHOLIC GIRL’S SURVIVAL GUIDE FOR THE SINGLE YEARS.
There may be some consolation and encouragement in it for you.
Don’t forget that in Biblical times, almost all marriages were arranged. The Apostles’ thrice repeated admonition, “Husbands, love your wives,” which sounds self-evident today, was revolutionary when first read in churches. Love was considered to be the FRUIT of marriage, not its root.
And remember the touching duet from FIDDLER ON THE ROOF, “Do You Love Me?” Responding to Tevye’s question, Golde recounted all they had been through together the previous 25 years, and summarized, “If that’s not love, what is?”
I know an Orthodox priest who ministered to Middle Easterners. He was surprised when a recently arrived parishioner wanted the priest to find him a wife. In his home village, that was one of the duties of the priest.
@ David,
thanks… but doubtful. I read about that book already. It’s about being cheerful and optimistic for 5 or 10 years—- 20 is too big a leap. When there’s 25 years of adult singlehood behind you and what can only be 20-50 years of singlehood ahead of you - it’s soul crushing. No offense, but some 32 year-old doesn’t understand that. her job is to make devastated 23-year-olds have hope. It’s not the same for me.
When people bring up the subject of gay marriage, and ask (as the President did) why same-sex couples shouldn’t be able to “marry the one they love”, I have often thought of arranged marriages, and how they negate the false notion of marriage being propogated by our society. The notion that some people have (validly) entered into such marriages with great fervor and devotion really can make one think about the true nature, meaning and purpose of marriage. It’s not necessarily about what we feel, but it IS necessarily about committment, fidelity and being fruitful.
The problem with this article arises from the false premise from which it starts. What the author calls “the typical secular American viewpoint” of marriage is not, in fact, the typical secular American viewpoint of marriage. No one who takes marriage seriously simply looks for “someone you have fun with, and whose presence makes you have all sorts of positive feelings.” And “the overriding goal of your union is to make sure that both of you experience as much fun and comfort as possible” is a very poor definition of marriage for anyone, secular or religious. I do not know where this author gets her ideas about what marriage means, but they are incorrect. Most people see marriage as a commitment by two people to love, honor and cherish one another, through good times and bad; to support one’s spouse in his/her endeavors; to selflessly give of oneself to the other. In short, “secular” folks aren’t as shallow as Ms. Fulwiler assumes.
@Terry, good point. In fact it is common from Catholic propagandists like Jennifer to start from false assumptions that correspond to the prejudices of part of their audience. I have met many stable “secular” couples that take their commitment very seriously and know how difficult is to find a decent life partner so they take care of what they have, they don’t cheat and they plan to live together indefinitely. The same for other couples with common religious backgrounds, there is plenty of serious folk in religious groups. But there are plenty of disfunctional people Catholic, secular, Jewish or whatever else. It is just that the notion that there is a possibility of having a secular balanced and happy life is either denied (or ommitted-this is more sneaky) because it doesn’t support the notion that you could leave the church and still be a virtuous person. The advantage of being secular is that there is little incentive to project a happy image when your life or marriage sucks, you simply divorce or go to therapy. But I have witnessed how the necessity to keep a good image in closed religious groups provides an incentive to have a double-life in some people, including priests.
I am totally in favor of stable couples and being serious about how you choose your potentially life companion. But being secular I have the advantage of not having to deny the possibility of having a good, stable, committed relationship without necessarily being officially married (I know a lot of these couples) or having a happy life with a partner of your own gender and respect them. Or having a happy, even numerous family using contraceptives.
In the Catholic world there is only one possibility -you can only marry once (or until death), and then only count on NFP to plan your family size- and they are so insecure that they have to give a strong negative images about other “secular” marriage possibilities. Of course if you take Jersey Shore, or the Bachelor, or whatever other trash TV show you want as an example that represents ALL secular people you have it too easy. But not all non-Catholics are super shallow, in my social group the secular people are even a little more serious than the religious ones, and if you check you can find a lot of people who have pretty fulfilled lives without being part of your self-cloistered social group.
Isn’t marrying once until death the whole point of marriage? It’s a predominant marriage vow in most traditions.
Terry & David—just out of curiosity, have either one of you ever read Jennifer’s own story? I, mean, really, both of you sound so incredibly naive! Check your facts before spouting, please. You might also note that all she was doing was pointing out positive points about a marriage option that she’d never thought could lead to happiness and how her understanding grew. Stop making issues where there aren’t any. It’s tiring.
David -
I’m pretty sure no one said all secular people are shallow. What was said to be an idea. Which you didn’t actually address - pretty much all you’ve done is say Jennifer is wrong then go off insulting religious people for some reason (by the way the whole “if you say I’m wrong it must be because you’re insecure” thing is really getting old, especially when it’s followed by you doing exactly what you call us insecure for doing).
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I think the following article may be helpful for you: http://pjmedia.com/blog/tips-for-not-appearing-crazy-on-the-internet/. In particular, the “Respond to an Actual Point and Not Just Something That’s Been Mentioned” section might help you.
Bill,
I think this is a very interesting article. Several years ago, after piecing back together a marriage that had fallen apart, Our Lord revealed something very important to me. Americanism or modernism if you want to call it that, is very destructive to marriage and family. The Catholic Church always had it right when she deemed mixed marriages (people of different religions) as unacceptable and unworthy of a nuptial Mass. Catholic parents had it right when they insisted that their Catholic children marry other Catholic children. In this way, the families stayed together and grew together, celebrated together and loved together. I learned what they already knew, true genuine love grows like a flower in the garden. It isn’t something to be felt, but something to be given through actions and deeds. This modernist idea that we are all individual and have rights of our own has been destroying families for so long now. How many times have I heard people say “I have a right to be happy.” Or “I deserve some happiness.” Soon people who are married to the same person for over 10 years and are the biological parents of all the children that live in the house are soon to become a minority. It will happen within the decade. Interesting article, though.
Bill and Michelle,
You guys could make a pretty good couple….....you remind me of the wife and I. ; )
good times!
My husband and I had a very interesting conversation about marriage with our two teenagers yesterday. I made the comment that I was concerned that they might never be as happily as my husband and I are and they agreed. The funny thing is, the kids know that we have frequently been unhappy due to deception, arrogance and a whole host of other sins. But we’ve also taught them that each time we’ve made two choices: to forgive and to keep loving each other. Today we are the happiest couple I know, but tomorrow we might not be. And that’s OK because I know that we are not afraid to suffer through the bad times together, so that we can regain the good.
Because we both came from pretty unhappy family situations where our parents stayed married long after the romance was gone, we decided to stay together and to stay happy, not just going through the motions because we promised God we would but to choose to work toward enjoying each other. So I watch NASCAR while working on the computer and he sits in fabric stores reading a book. He’s learned how to appreciate a quality piece of cotton and I know what happens during a caution flag.
Sure, we could each go out and spend time with other people. The problem is, we don’t want to.
\\Sure, we could each go out and spend time with other people. The problem is,
we don’t want to.\\
And this is a problem because….....?????
God bless both of you!
Most of the marriages in India, not only among Christians but among all communities are arranged marriages. Sara has interpreted arranged marriage as forced marriage. It is not the case. Of course there may be very few such forced marriages by parents. By arranged marriage we in India mean that the onus of finding a suitable match mainly lies on parents ( or relatives). So search for a suitable match is done by boy’s side through friends and relatives or even through marriage brokers these days. The parents find out the standing of the family, the character , the education and the job of the boy. The same way the girl’s family also searches.If they feel the alliance is acceptable, then a meeting is arranged between the boy and girl , preferably in the girl’s house They are allowed to talk without any one present. If the boy and the girl agree, further procedure follows and marriage happens. Here one may ask what a girl or boy can understand about the other by talking for few minutes . Yes, it is a valid question. But the children have full trust in their parents that they would do their best for their children. Most of the marriages are happy. Of course there may be a few percentage where sincerity and truth were not existing and so later unhappiness. One thing, the girl/ boy is not alone, the parents and the relatives are all there to solve problems, to support them and so on. No one can say that arranged marriage is the best or love marriage is the best. The best marriage is where the couple love each other unconditionally. There is nothing unadjustable, if love and a willingness to sacrifice for the other exist. There is nothing impossible for God.
Modernism and greed have changed many things. Religion is relegated to the backseat. So love is replaced by lust and riches and power. This attitude plays havoc. Some demand hefty dowry. Some even after marriage ask the girls to bring more from her family. The outcome of modernism is pure materialism and relativism. Thus some pursue pleasures, pelf and power and end up in all peacelessness, broken family and tensions Love , humanism, sacredness of marriage , all are thrown off.
K.C. Thomas, thank for your explanation and insight! I think one of the main reasons these marriages do “make it” is that the families are so involved.
Steve Ray wrote about attending a Jewish wedding in Israel between two prominent families. One thing that was very clear was that the families stay involved. If the husband is not treating his wife well, he will find himself having a long talk with her father and brothers! In fact, they talk to him before the wedding as well. Same with the bride if she needs instruction in respecting and caring for her husband. We in America would be so offended at such “intrusion,” but that is their culture.
I know of several “love” marriage where the parents told one or the other, “This isn’t a good idea.” They didn’t listen and were very sorry later. Like you said, neither way is perfect. There will be no perfection this side of heaven. But, there are factors that make it much more likely to be happy, which you stated beautifully.
Renae,
I am 49 years old and have never been married. What I have learned in the last few years is that I cannot allow my soul to be crushed by this fact of my life. Instead, I focus on my prayer life and on God’s promise to sanctify me and I actively ignore my “wants” since they lead me to disobedience and dissatisfaction with God. While I sometimes mourn the absence of marital love and children in my life, I know that God’s promise of eternal life in His presence more than makes up for what I think I lack now.
You nailed it. Marriage is about two becoming one, creating new life in union with our creator. It’s agape, eros and philos… all in one.
@ Tracy—yes, I read Jennifer Fulwiler’s story. In fact, I quoted her initial premise at some length in my post.
I don’t know what I wrote that you consider naive. That secular people view marriage “as a commitment by two people to love, honor and cherish one another, through good times and bad; to support one’s spouse in his/her endeavors; to selflessly give of oneself to the other”? I’m secular, and that’s how I view marriage, and I am by no means a minority among the secular community. Religion is not a requirement to a good marriage, a good life or a good person.
Perhaps you could expand upon your remarks to tell me in what way I am naive.
Divorce statistics indicate a lot of people dont get it right as far as marrying for what counts. For me, , the over riding two things are love of God and His Teachings, and a loving nature toward others. Marriage is hard, and what it takes to sustain it from time to time, is to be able to give of one self to another rather than feed selfishness. I joke that the best thing i ever learned about marriage is the ability to say ” Yes Dear, you are right.” but it has an element of Truth in it at another level. As far as superficial things are concerned, it doesnt matter what a person is like externally, the internal beauty is everything. Been married 37 years so far, and both of us being Catholic had a lot to do with why we are still in love to this day.
Now Abraham was old, and advanced in age; and the Lord had blessed him in all things. And he said to the elder servant of his house, who was ruler over all he had: Put your hand under my thigh, that I may make you swear by the Lord, the God of heaven and earth, that you take not a wife for my son, of the daughters of the Chanaanites, among whom I dwell: But that you go to my own country and kindred, and take a wife from thence for my son Isaac ... Who brought her into the tent of Sara his mother, and took her to wife: and he loved her so much, that it moderated the sorrow which was occasioned by his mother’s death. Gen 24, Douay
Men won’t notice, but what do you think, ladies? ‘and THEN he fell in love with her!’
Hello,
I saw a couple of comments about arranged marriage and Catholic validity. While the conversation did cover different ways a marriage can be arranged, I wanted to point out two situations:
1. When you make a discernment about marriage and hear God’s soft voice saying ” yes, this is the man (or the woman) I choose for you ” and you say yes. Isn’t that an arranged marriage? Sure you can say no and go on with your life. Or you can say yes to it and find out what treasures God has in store for you in this relationship.
2. There are situations where parents arrange a marriage and the children really do not know each other. But if they honestly consent with their will towards the marriage to dutifully love each other as God loves the other, then this marriage can both be full arranged and fully valid. So it isn’t true that arranged marriages would automatically invalidate a marriage. It may if you consent for the wrong reasons - namely without love.
For those who are wary concerning the idea of arranged marriages being valid, every marriage between two members of European nobility for centuries before European states united and became democratic must have been invalid.
The idea of marrying someone that you don’t choose for yourself is actually very much rooted in the traditional view of marriage. The concept of marrying whoever you choose or “for love” is an extremely novel idea relative to the institution itself, even in the West. It’s a romantic (in the sentimental, experimental sense), plebeian idea popularized by normal people within the last 3 centuries or so. Even common people in the West didn’t marry people that their families different approve. That still happens today in more bougey circles, for crying out loud, and you KNOW it still happens in the upper echelon of society. The ideas we’ve been raised to have concerning traditional marriage aren’t exactly traditional themselves, ironically.
The idea of God arranging marriages also gives me pause. Several years ago, Karl Keating, president and founder of Catholic Answers publicly announced (through a free e-letter) that he explicitly and emphatically expressed the people who facilitated the youth/chastity division of Catholic Answers that they were to stop telling kids that God has ONE person and ONE person ALONE whom they were intended to marry by God. It isn’t a Catholic idea. The sacrament of marriage is given between a man and a woman who consent to be husband and wife. Period. That’s it. All the social trappings of who you “should” marry and what people marry FOR are, well, social trappings. The idea that God has one person for every single person to whom he’s given the vocation of marriage is sentimentally sound, even plausible, but it isn’t something that the Church teaches or even supposes.
Wondervul article!
I dated several young men before I met my husband. One was very serious and very painful to walk away from, but I sensed God telling me “Not for you.”. He was not Catholic, and even as I was a bit of a rebel and my parents were always saying I needed to marry a Catholic, my faith meant a lot to me, and I wanted to pass it on to my children. (I learned he later married a Lutheran strong in her love for Christ…that brought me so much peace!)
After my first date with my DH, I knew my life had changed forever. It wasn’t that infatuated feeling I’d experienced so many times before. Frankly, it just scared the hell out of me. This strange guy with this funny name, really, God? Yes, this was the one God ordained for me…but I was never looking for that romantic “the one” because I knew by then there could be lots of “the ones”, there already had been. This was God’s one. A man who loved me, but loved God more than me. He didn’t worship me like all the others did, but that stopped me from worshipping myself so much, and focused me, also, on Him. Like the trinity, we live the triangle in our marriage, and it is SO GOOD…
My kids will not date like I did. They will not be repressed, they will be informed. Besides, is there even that romantic love thing anymore anyway in our hook up culture? My kids will know they can be better than that. I felt pressured to be less. My kids will be challenged to be more. More in Christ, for the good of their husbands, their children, and the world He came to redeem. God bless marriage (and please pray for Kirsten and Chris leaving for Retrouvaille tomorrow!)
Ps my spam word to enter is union33. God is so fun…
I love this post. I have a quasi non-traditional arranged marriage AND I have SSA. Part of my ‘problem’ with SSA revolved around my ability to basically love everyone…and then my overzealous need to slap a layer of sexualization on top of that initial love. This serves me well in my arranged marriage. I can contemplate pretty much anyone on a level of being a creation that is worthy of love and see how God must love them…this lets ME love them…! I just learned that I dont need to sexualize all love and that with my marriage I only focus this kind of intense + sexual love with my husband. I make having SSA look fancy easy. (taking a bow)
Terry says that religion is not a necessity to be a good person. I agree. But such persons do not realise the existence of the Holy Spirit’s work in them, because God loves everyone. I would advise Terry to leave religion if it does not do any good to you
Posted by Robert on Thursday, Aug 2, 2012 8:37 PM (EST):For those who are wary concerning the idea of arranged marriages being valid, every marriage between two members of European nobility for centuries before European states united and became democratic must have been invalid. “
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Not if the spouses consented, but sure, some may well have been invalid. It’s a moot point though unless remarriage was attempted.
@ Lauri Friesen - thank you for those words of support.
I try to live that way, but it’s so hard.
Don’t you ever wonder why God built you with so much love to give - only to find that nobody wants it?
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I dunno. Maybe it’s a mixup that I was born into the digital age where people think checking a status update is a sign of true friendship… for every mile I go out of my way to show love to my friends - the more it’s rejected. I just feel if there was at least ONE person who wanted my love and to love me back- then live wouldn’t be so hard to bear.
.
Now, some people are going to read that and think I’m some clingy, bend over backwards, noodle of a person who craves attention…. and that’s not true. It’s just that it’s my nature to do unto others as I would like them to do unto me—- but no one ever does unto me.
I agree with Jen about that the wisdom of family can help a lot when it comes to potential spouses [not always, obviously]. My husband and I met through a mash-up of 21st century methods and arranged, old world matchmaking. My sister and I are very close. One day she decided to take it upon herself to find me a husband on a particular Catholic online dating website. There was one guy, with whom I had mutual friends (but whom I did not know at the time), that she decided would make a very good match. My sister contacted him (in my name, initially!) and set up the two of us. Then she forbid me from breaking up with him for the first six weeks when he and I got off to a slow start. He was a bit different from the type of guy I would pick out on my own. Turns out, by the end of the six weeks I realized just how right my sister was. Wow, was she right! We’ve been married almost a year. I now owe my sister a husband.
“Divorce statistics indicate a lot of people dont get it right as far as marrying for what counts.”
Fats- I agree. I have two different relatives who I knew before their wedding day would end in divorce. Unfortunately,I was not strong in my faith to speak up at that time, nor do I think now I would have the gumption to do so. One was a big church wedding with a huge “show” reception.
I think American consumerism and materialism distorts the picture in these incidences so people marry without a strong foundation in place. I travel to Asia often and have friends amongst business colleagues and I sense the same materialism and consumerism are creeping into their marriage ceremonies too.
Renae- what you responded to Laurie about— having so much love to give.. yet it’s not accepted, or taken, or appreciated… Accept that and offer it to God because you can appreciate Him so much more now—- because you are standing in His shoes! He gives it to all- well, would LOVE for all to have it, His Perfect Love, but so few take it. So, it IS important that you take this gift of this love inside of you and use it to Glorify God and His Goodness and Love.
Thank you for writing about this.
I have known three arranged marriage couples and all three continue in marriage, so that is a plus. On the down side, one of them continues in marraige but, now that the children are in college, the couple spend little time together. Of course that happens in non-arranged marriages too and, perhaps, with greater frequency. My point is solely that “growing in love” requires effort and that there are many people who are not up to that, who remain married because it is convenient to do so.
One of the things that I should like to hear your views on is how “living in the culture” versus “living in the wider secular culture” affects those marriages. By this I mean to ask whether arranged marriages only work for that first generation of immigrants - those whose friends and family are largely from their culture. It strikes me that moving forward in generations, arranging marriages might create less durable marriages not more durable marriages because there are fewer consequences to divorce.
Finally, I am struck by the dicotemy of your example since Indians abort their children, particularly female children, at an alarming rate. For marriages that are set up by families with the raising of children in mind, it seems odd that abortion would be a primary mechanism for limiting the size and gender of families.
I hope you will not view my questions and observations unfavorably. I claim no expertise and am interested in your views.
My name is Mr Luis Bright,i live in Mexico,and I’m happily married with a lovely wife and three children.I had a very big problem with my wife few months ago,to the extent that she even packed her things away from me and my kids for almost 5 months,and i tried all my possible best and effort to bring her back,but all to no avail.I discussed it with a very good friend of mine,and he gave me an advice concerning a spell caster,and i quote.“There’s someone who can handle your situation,he’s always ready and able to do anything related to spell casting,i will like you to contact him with his email,which is as follows.”AYELALA SHRINE”. I never believed in spell casting,but he convinced me and i had no choice than to follow his advice,because i never dreamt of loosing my lovely wife.And that’s how i contacted him with his email address,and i discussed with him and so surprisingly,he told me that I’ll get my wife back a day after.so i never believed,until when i got home,the next day,my wife called me to inform me that she was coming back…..So amazing!! That’s how i got my wife back through spell casting and our relationship was now stronger than how it was before.One of the price i was asked to pay was to tell it to people around me that problems like this,can always be solved by “AYELALA SHRINE”. So! my advice for you out there is to visit this same website,and tell him your problems too,if you are in any condition related to love issue or getting your ex back,to have a happy family.THANKS……ayelalashrine@gmail.com
Mr. Bright, if nobody will tell you this, I will.
You have committed the sins of superstition, sorcery, and idolatry.
What good will it do to get your wife back in this life if you wind up in hell in the next?
By going to a wizard, you have made the Devil the head of your family. Repent this sin and confess it. Otherwise, you and your family are headed for major trouble.
I have an interesting perspective on this as my mother’s side of the family comes from anabaptist (Amish/Mennonite/Hutterite) stock, so I witnessed a great deal of semi-arranged marriages as I grew up. There was a time I felt it barbaric and anti-woman, but over the years I’ve seen very little actual repression, and those marriages have been happier and more stable overall than many of the secular and other Christian marriages I’ve observed. I think the event that upended my entire view of it was when some starry-eyed female cousins and I were asking our aunt and uncle (then married about 15 years and such a laid-back loving couple) about when they first knew they loved each other. We were SHOCKED when she said she first felt love for him during their wedding vows! Then he floored us as he described looking at her in church, with the sunlight streaming around her through an open window and feeling for the first time that he loved and was smitten with her forever- and that was after they’d been married for several weeks!
I’ll admit their religion doesn’t do everything the best way, but watching cousins and old friends enter into marriages from supervised courtships and partial arrangement, I can’t help but think they’ve got something really right. They always enter the commitment with full family and community support and a sense of awe and duty (and a shyness because they have not ever really been allowed to be alone with each other) about what they are undertaking TOGETHER. Maybe other friends have had the same attitude, but from the pageantry that was their weddings and the track record, I’m not inclined to think so, unfortunately.
Which makes me think of a common thread of the successful marriages I’ve known. If you look at the wedding pictures years later, they have all those contrived poses and dazzling smiles. The happiest marriages I know have at least a few wedding photos that captured moments of genuine shyness and embarrassment and solemness between the couple.
Erin,
I have Mennonite friends & share your thoughts.Their community support is a huge plus.Families are supported by the church community.Women have fellowship together often,sew quilts for the needy, & share practical ideas on homemaking skills.And families & marriage are valued deeply & encouraged both in prayer & action.If a husband is unemployed, either his local church will find him employment or another church community,even if out of state, will.All their children may attend the little Mennonite school, regardless of income or ability to pay.
I wish I could say I see this occuring in our Catholic parishes, but at least where I live, I see little.Couples are kind of left to fend for themselves,parochial schools are relatively expensive, and ,outside of a very few parishes,NFP is barely mentioned, much less taught.
We are blessed by the Church teaching on marriage as a sacrament but we need to find practical ways to support couples after they enter into marriage.Popular culture is a wasteland & toxic to the family.
The article states: [“The typical secular American viewpoint is that marriage is about “love,” and love is a feeling.’] Feelings are something you cannot trust since they can change often. “I am happy today but unhappy tomorrow.” On the other hand, Christian marriage is highly about commitment. A pledge before the Lord by the couple to remain in that covenant relationship forever. The Bible says promises made to God,—He takes very seriously.
For a number of years I taught in a school with a large and diverse population. Many of the students were born to parents whose marriages had been arranged.These students saw their parents as happy and in love. Some even expected that their parents would take some part in the selection of their own marriage partners, though perhaps not to the degree that had been exerted in their parents’ marriages. Ironically, the children who believed their parents had married for “love” (even if they had since divorced) were less likely to characterize their parents as still being in love. Of course, they completely rejected the idea of honoring their parents input into their own future marriages. Most of this is undoubtedly the influence of celebrities and the expectations we have of unlimited freedom. Or just maybe they thought that their parents had not sustained a lasting romantic notion of marriage, so how could they help their children choose the right partner?
Being an Indian, though unmarried, I have seen a lot of arranged marriages and not all are the rosy picture that Jen has portrayed here. Ofcourse there are few who find true love within their arranged marriage, but mostly it is only to please both the families and is usually a socio-financial tie-up between these families…
This video illustrates the process of arranged marriage in India (with may be little exaggeration).
Link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JtppMsiqqrM
Hi, the article was a nice and very informative as I myself had what would be dubbed as an arranged marriage.
I was actually looking for blogs reviewing arranged marriages, and have come across this relatively new site which I thought I might share with you all now, as its aimed at families an friends sharing pictures and messages but also at using this connections to find a life partner for marriage purposes.
The site is: www.FamilyLinXs.com
Thanks again for a surprising find!
My husband has abandon me and the kids for the the past 8months now, and refuse to come back because he was hold on by a woman whom he just met, for that, my self and the kids has been suffering and it has been heel of a struggle, but i decide to do all means to make sure that my family come together as it use to, then i went online there i saw so many good talk about this spell caster whose email is shamuspiritualtemple@gmail.com so i had to contact him and in just 4days as he has promised, my husband came home and his behavior was back to the man i got married to.I cant thank the spell caster enough what what he did for me, i am so grateful. I even spoke to the spell caster over the phone, to confirm his existence. His email again is: shamuspiritualtemple@gmail.com
My name is Frank Morrison, my family and i live together live in Canada.It was after seven years i got to discover that my wife was unfaithful to me.I didn’t know what was going on at first but as she got deep in the affair with her new lover, i felt that our marriage was on the rocks.I notice that she no longer light up when i touch her or kiss her in her neck and her chest cos she really liked it when i did that, she also usually get naked in front of me but when she started seeing that guy she stopped it.I remember asking her if i have done anything that makes her feel irritated when i am around her then she gives silly excuses that she has been feeling stressed up and that she need space for a while.I know when you are been asked for space its usually because there is something fishy is going on.I hired a private investigator to help find out what was going on.And in a week time he brought me prove that my wife that i have lived with for seven straight year is cheating on me with her high school lover.I had picture of her walking out a of a restaurant with him and many other photo of them kissing in public like she will never be caught by someone that knows she is my wife.I asked myself, even when we had a daughter together she could this to me.That same night i showed her the pictures that i got from my private investigator.She didn’t look at it before saying, that she is seeing someone and she know that i just found out about it.Then she said that she is in love with him.At that moment, i didn’t know if to kill myself or to kill her but the button line is that if i was going to kill anyone it was going to be me cos i was so much in love with her to even think of thinking to hurt her.As time when on she asked for a divorce and got it and even got custody of our daughter and i was all alone by myself.For a year i tried all i could to get her back with the help of my seven year old daughter.Even at that all effect was in vain, i used the help of her friend but turned out all bad.I know most people don’t believe in spell casting but believe me this was my last option and the result i most say was impressive.And i know it difficult to believe but A SPELL CASTER Dr KOFFY really made my life much better cos he gave me my family back.He didn’t ask me to pay for what he did for me all i was to do, was to provide the materials for the spell and believe that he had the power to help me.Like he said, he was going to do something that will make her reset her love and affection for me just as it has always been.My wife told me she woke up and realized that she should have never left me that i am all she needs.To make thing clear, her life with her high school lover was great before Dr KOFFY casted the spell they had no disagreement on anything.The guy said it himself that why she broke up with him is unexplainable.Only KOFFY can do such a thing contact him to solve your problem with his email:KOFFYSPELLTEMPLE@GMAIL.COM. HE WILL DEFINITELY HELP YOU TOO
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