Even in our country with access to all sorts of laws about sexual harassment and advice columns telling women to assert themselves Planned Parenthood has repeatedly shown that they consider birth control and abortion the solution for a woman in an abusive relationship.

Thank you for another beautifully written and expressed column, Jennifer!  It is so irritating to watch First World women impose their ‘solutions’ upon Third World women - I find it so utterly condescending, having come from one of those Third World countries where most of these women truly value their children. And the children, in turn, truly value their parents. It riles me no end to read about thoroughly misguided people like Melinda Gates telling these women all they really need to empower themselves is contraception and access to abortifacient drugs and devices.  What about supporting the things that really matter - things like more access to potable and running water, better and more accessible education and such materials, better roads and infrastructure, better preventative health care and nutrition? These are actually what these women would prefer to be helped with.

Thank you for your very timely article. I am from the Philippine and our country is in the throes of a battle over passing a Reproductive Health Bill. This Bill seeks require employers to provide contraceptives for their employees. It also promotes sexual education in public school, without the proper values education that sex is not just for pleasure. Despite abortion being illegal, there is one form of abortion that is legal and taught by this bill; intra-uterine devices. The violent opposition and support is tearing our country apart. :(

I am against the Bill but still hope it can be amended in accord with Church teachings.

People who believe that the poor would be better off with less children are not limited to first world countries. Many people here, particularly the educated middle and upper classes who support the RH Bill.

As you stated, in truth we have large families in our country because are they see children as a blessing from God. Times may be hard but family is all they have. Especially in poor communities, the older children help augment their families income by working in the fields, factories or as housekeepers and nannies. Family life is an ingrained part of our culture, with people leaving for their home provinces every Christmas and Holy Week.

The Bill was proposed to combat poverty. But the real issue in our country lies not in reducing the population but ensuring that the wealth of the upper classes is equitably distributed among the masses. And in improving our public education system to cater to the job opportunities in the market. Less children or more, if that doesn’t happen, the Bill won’t make a real difference.

Sorry for the long post. Just wanted to add a third-world person’s perspective on the issue.

Thank you for the post, MariaClara, and bringing up the issue of the pending RH Bill in the Philippines. I would not be surprised if it is finally passed by the corrupt government, since the bill is the stick linked to the dispensing of the carrot - the Millenium Development Fund (part of Millenium Development Goals program being pushed by the UN, the US government, et al.). (Not many are aware of it, but the UN Population Fund has helped pay for the inhumanly enforced one-child policy in China that has horrified the ignorant West recently with stories of women being forced to kill their unborn children - sometimes with unasked ‘help’ from government policy enforcers.)
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On a more geopolitical level, there is also the issue of population control of Third World peoples by the First World powers-that-be.  One cannot help but wonder why this is being promoted with such vigor and loads of money in such countries today. 
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http://www.philstar.com/Article.aspx?publicationSubCategoryId=64&articleId=836877

Thank you for mentioning the Millenium Development Fund and posting that link. I did not know that the UN was pushing for this. I did not realize that there were gloabal implications to this as well. I don’t think our government is as corrupt as it used to be. But as far as this issue is concerned I definitely disagree with PNoy.

The promotion of abortion and contraception in third-world countries is tantamount to eugenics, a clear case of moral evil.

It is evident that this woman loves her country. I applaud her for that. I would love to hear the voices of more women from Nigeria.

I have never studied in depth different cultures nor have I travelled to a 3rd world country.  I have not heard from a lot of women from third world countries.  I wanted to say that to let you know I am not an expert by any means.  Just a woman seeking to learn.

First, I have seen this letter all over many catholic websites.  The reference to the abscence of post-partum depression in Nigeria is not accurate.  Studies put the rate of PPD at 20-30%.  But most of all, post partum depression does not mean a woman does not love and welcome her baby.  I cringe everytime I read that part.  Implying women in developed countries suffer PPD because they do not consider their children a gift is inaccurate and terrible misinformation.  If this is the belief in Nigeria then it is no surprise that a woman would have a hard time admitting to it.

My other concerns include: the law in Nigeria that puts to death a woman who has had a baby outside of marriage, the average life expectancy is 52 yrs so there is no old age in which children care for their mother, the average age of marriage in northern Nigeria is 15, 40% of marriages in Nigeria are polygamous, the large number of women who are not able to deny their husband sex under any circumstance.  Those are just a few concerns that lead me to believe human vitae is not being lived out in Nigeria nor do the women have an understanding of what a mutually life giving marriage is as taught by the church.

If a girl gets married at 15 and uses no NFP or contraception she will likely have alot more than 8 children.  I am sure the infant mortality rate is high.  If she has means to space her children it is likely that more of them will survive.  So it does not seem to me that anyone is telling them to limit their families to 2 children.

I struggle greatly with women who are in abusive marriages having no means to get out or protect themselves.  Especially if their husband is infected with HIV or has multiple wives.

This is a very complex issue and the problems in Nigeria are complex.  It does not appear to me that women have their most basic rights protected.

I don’t think Jennifer or anyone else is denying that women’s rights are compromised in Nigeria.  What they’re saying is that artificial contraception is not the answer.

One of the easiest, least expensive and most effective methods of NFP is called the standard days method. Using beads,or other markers, a woman with a 28- 32 day cycle can reliably track her fertility without some of the more difficult aspects of other NFP methods (I’m thinking specifically of temperature taking and mucus assessment). Which makes it ideal for women with limited resources.
This method doesn’t require women buy anything regularly (just the markers), doesn’t profit drug companies, doesn’t create any pollution and fits well within many religious traditions.
So naturally, organizations like the Gates foundation scoff at it, as they do most NFP. Its pathetic that Melinda Gates styles herself a champion of women when her foundation has become one more thrall to the abortion/ eugenics/ death agenda.
Congratulations to those women who are willing to stand up and say ‘We don’t want your 1st world poisons’.

Yes, our country has a very evil agenda: population control of other countries.  A great website for more information on the United States’ push to control who lives and who dies, and how many get to live in the world is www.c-fam.org.  Catholic Family and Human Rights Institute is the voice of the Catholic Church at the United Nations.  The US uses the UN to control population growth for the so called “benefits” to the US….just read the Kissinger Report. It’s all there in black and white.  When our current president took office one of the very first things he did was refund the United Nations Fund on Population Activities.  Yes, we bully the world into thinking controlling the population is good for them; that they need to get rid of poor people to get rid of poverty.  There is a critical difference between iradicating poverty and iradicating poor people!

The real truth behind population control: it is to protect the US as a world power and secure for the US the availability of resources in the world for it’s own use.  As someone who loves what America stands for, all the good, etc. this has been quite an eye opener and quite heart breaking.  We get what we vote for, don’t we?  But do we really know what we are voting for?  Do we really understand what we are supporting?  This is not a conservative vs. liberal issue.  It is about the dignity of the human person and our country has drifted very far away from this issue.

Thank you for this article.  It shines a light on why children are good for women.  Love wins.

Melinda Gates has done much good through the Gates Foundation in other projects, but in this case the efforts are misguided & can be used by those seeking eugenic solutions to Third World populations.
I hope Mrs. Gates read that letter.

If a woman can not say no to her husband for sex even if her life is threatened by pregnancy or her husband is infected with HIV NFP is not the answer either.  If a marriage is not mutually life giving and respectful that is not modeling human vitae. It does not matter if you teach NFP to the women. If the Nigerian men do not have respect for their wives the education is useless.  I don’t know how prevalent this is. But I suspect it is widespread.  Clearly there is an unbalanced foundation that needs to be corrected.  Efforts to educate women and give them more skills will likely be suppressed if this underlying belief system is not fixed.

I hope that more efforts are made to educate men and women on the meaning of marriage so in the future women do have a voice in this country.

It seems if this letter is represents the voice of women in Nigeria then they would not accept contraception.  It is my understanding that they have a choice to accept or reject this.

The fact that marriages in Nigeria don’t model Humane Vitae doesn’t justify promoting contraception in that region.  The fact that they women have a choice to reject the contraception that is “offered” to them does not justify promoting contraception in that region (particularly abortifacient contraceptives).  And if a woman is forced to have sex with her HIV-infected husband, artificial contraceptives aren’t going to be much help to her.  If you have any ideas about how to correct the unbalanced foundation and the underlying belief system in that country, I personally would love to hear them.  I assume they don’t involve the promotion of contraception, since you’re someone who frequents Catholic websites and therefore presumably accepts the Church’s views on contraception?

Someone needs to do an ad that goes through what can be bought with two billion dollars (Gate’s wants to raise “billions”). How many towns can have fresh water? How many girls can get a good education? How many women can be given support to leave abusive husbands? How many women can have real health care? How many women can be trained in a career or better ways of taking care of their families?

Then contrast with the effects of birth control. How many abused women will just be given a band-aid to “help” them? How many women will now be left with no children to support them when they are older? How women won’t have the good health facilities and will die from blood clots or IUD’s messing up. How many women will be left without hope?

Can you imagine if we had contingents of women from developing nations come here to teach us about family life?
Might not be a bad idea.

http://www.turtlebayandbeyond.org/2012/demography/melinda-gates-controversial-ideology/
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The article above opens with comedian Stephen Colbert’s scarily truthful summarizing of Gates’ goal using billions of dollars from the Gates Foundation:
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‘Colbert: “But now you’ve got a new charitable hobby horse you’re on, and it’s not necessarily saving people’s lives, so much as it’s stopping people’s lives from existing. You want to provide family planning to 120 million men and women around the world.”
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Melinda Gates: “Right.”’
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Yup, to eradicate poverty by eradicating the poor. Will Melinda Gates listen to the voices of the Nigerian woman, and other women who do not want contraceptives and abortifacients thrown at them so cavalierly?  Why is it that they (First World rich) get to tell those in the Third World what’s good for them without asking the latter themselves what it is they really need?

Claire,

I don’t actually have any answers for this problem. I’m still trying to understand the gravity of it and the people involved in it and what has already been done to try to solve it.  I feel like I am being attacked in the process.  I certainly did not come here attacking anyone.

And no I don’t believe contraceptives would solve the problem for a woman being forced to have sex with her HIV infected husband.

I am very bewildered that out of all the Catholic websites that posted this article not one of them corrected the implication that women who suffer from PPD somehow think their children are not a gift and also the misinforamtion that PPD does not exist in Nigeria. That concerns me and lead me to believe I’m might not being hearing an accurate voice of what is truly going on in the country.  That leads me to research more info. If I find anything helpful I’ll be sure to share it with you.

I was originally linked to this article by a facebook acquaintance.  I saw it on many sites because I was interested in learning more about it and the response to it.  I’m not a regular poster here.

The author seems to believe that all the problems in Nigeria are because of the influence of western women.  That is not true either because we consider the marriage of child (age 15) to be statuatory rape and polygamy is illegal.  The death sentence for women who conceive a child outside of marriage certainly is not something we promote either. The problems in the foundation of this society and the lack of respect for women is not something they can blame on western women.  It seems to boil down to a lot of power and control and evil government structures.

This is a fascinating exchange, and I thank concernedwoman for presenting her points of view. I read Catholic blogs but do not subscribe to the Church’s teaching on contraception, Claire et al, so it might help to know that.

It is also helpful to remember that the use of contraception, like anything, is not guaranteed by its availability, but when there is no access it can’t be used. It seems to me that there are many people whose personal/ religious opposition to the use of birth control makes them want to deny it to women and men who feel like it would be welcome in their lives for whatever reasons they choose. If you think people shouldn’t use it, you should convince them, not deny them, don’t you think?

Kind Regards, KHoward.

Concernedwoman:  you’re not a regular here?  Hmm, that’s really surprising, because your writing style and approach seem really familiar.  No one here attacked you.  You came here under the guise of “seekin to learn” and in the process subtly supported the promotion of contraception in these countries.  I challenged you on that.  That is not an attack.  That is a natural reaction from someone who shares the Church’s views on contraception.  And since this article is written by someone who is faithful to Church teaching, and is posted on a website that is faithful to Church teaching, and is therefore read by Catholics who are faithful to Church teaching, it isn’t too surprising that someone who subtly tries to support the promotion of contraception in third world countries is going to be challenged.

KHoward:  Since many of the contraceptives being offered to these women have abortifacient properties, making them available in the first place is problematic.  It would actually help to know why you spend time on Catholic blogs if you don’t concur with Church teaching on contraception.  I find this very hard to relate to, as I personally have no desire to follow Planned Parenthood blogs, for example.

I am not a regular poster here and don’t worry I don’t intend on becoming one. Accusing someone of lying is an attack.  I was hoping for some discussion and validation of the FACTS I raised but am further in disbelief that no one acknowledges them. It could be a simple, “You are right women who suffer PPD love their children and welcome them. PPD is not caused by a woman not loving her child.  We really needed to clarify that. And yes the rate of PPD is actually higher in Nigeria than it is in the US”  If the church wants to dialogue with people on an international level it needs to speak in truth.  As for your response to KHoward I thought the intent of blogs like this was in part to draw others in that may not share your point of view not to berate them when they raise good questions.  I am not sure who you think you are but I am not coming here under a “guise” You actually come across to me as quite hostile.

I wasn’t berating KHoward.  She said it might be helpful to know that she follows Catholic blogs but not Church teaching, and my response is that it would be helpful to know why.  I honestly would like to know, since it’s something I can’t relate to.

Jennifer’s article does not discuss the postpartum depression issue that you brought up.  Maybe the commenters here would rather comment on the points she has raised, rather than the ones you have raised.  Anyway, first you said you came here seeking to learn, and now you’re saying that you’re looking for validation of the points you brought up.  As a former postpartum RN, I can certainly validate that PPD does not mean that a child is unwanted or unloved.  PPD is very complex.  There is a hormonal component to it, exhaustion factors in, as do feelings of being overwhelmed.  A society’s general attitude toward children could probably play a role in rates of PPD or in its severity.  At this point, that’s the most I can validate for you.  I have not studied rates of PPD in Nigeria.  And now that you’ve berated me for accusing you of lying, you accuse the Church of failing to speak in truth.  But you seem to have no concern about the integrity of the contraception proponents.  Ironic.

Her claim that PPD doesn’t exist in Nigeria I took to be hyperbola and didn’t consider that someone would think that she meant “not a single woman in this entire country has PPD”. I can’t find a any data on what it would actually be, but from a practical and logical standpoint, a country that does everything possible to AVOID children and seeing them as burdens to be endured would seem to have a higher probability of depression than a country that sees them as assets. Now there is a difference between actual clinical PPD, which is a physiological problem, and the typical baby blues that most women get. I also assumed she was talking about the second and not the first. It would be good to get her clarification on that matter.

However, the key in her letter isn’t that, it’s the point that giving these woman contraception doesn’t SOLVE anything. It’s at most a bandaid on a mortal wound. If you have a culture that doesn’t respect women, giving them contraception (which has only encouraged the degrading of women) will only harm them more. How much better to give education, crisis groups, empowerment, and encouraging the culture to see each woman as a unique individual with her own genius that should be respected and loved.

Clair, It’s always best to assume someone asks in good faith rather than try to discern their real motives which inevitably puts that person’s back up. Answer without questioning or trying to drive away. By hearing someone articulate their thoughts on a difficult topic you will be better able to respond.

Lady Cygnus, I hear what you’re saying.  However, without going into a lot of detail, there is a history on these boards of people misrepresenting themselves and misrepresenting their views, and I find that really manipulative.  If I’m wrong about this person’s identity, I apologize, but I really don’t think I am.

concernedwoman,
Is PPD an issue you are particularily concerned about? Just wondering because the letter to Mrs. Gates only mentioned it once & that was simply to contrast to the writer’s own cultural experiences. It was not a study on the subject in her country.
I guess it would be interesting to see the frequency of PPD in different areas & causal factors, but I don’t think that was a primary issue in the letter.

My kids grew up in a small bedroom community of San Francisco.  It is one of the most highly educated towns per capita in the U.S., if not the highest.  After a storybook childhood filled with natural beauty, vacations and every material good, lesson, amenity etc.  The kids turn to drugs, alcohol and promiscuity.  Why?  It’s all about pleasure.  They live by the pleasure principle.  So what is the logical solution if even artificial mood enhancers can’t keep a stream of pleasure flowing??  Take a guess.  One of the highest suicide rates and consumption of alcohol in the country.  My daughter, who has a knack for making some dry comedy of what is ludicrous and perverse, does a parody of these kids with their endless complaints about boredom and angst, which always includes: ” OMG,I hate my parents!”  Obviously Melinda Gates is one of those people who knows the cost of everything, but not the worth.  She should read a couple of books by Mother Teresa and ask herself why Mother Teresa didn’t want her orphans to be subjected to the poverty of THIS country.

anna lisa ,
I agree with Mother Teresa about the type of poverty we have in the US, but Melinda Gates has done much good in other respects.Perhaps other Catholics might reach out to her in charity to help her understand.From what I know, she does not support abortion.There may be a teachable moment at hand.

Clair, I’ve been on the boards long enough to know what you are talking about, it can be quite frustrating at times. We all get annoyed with the people who post “gotchas” and then either run away or sit back and enjoy the fighting. However, if we just yell at people who repeat these sound-bites we never have the opportunity to approach the honest confused person in love.

And if you think about it, it’s hard to honestly ask without sounding like a troll. You want to say “I’m sincere” or “this is an honest question” you try to word it so it doesn’t sound like trolling, yet everything you’ve been given is a sound-bite appealing to over-the-top emotions. Everything they know about Church teaching can be boiled down to “backwards nonsense”. So you end up with “I’m asking an honest question, but what about those women in Nigeria who are raped by their husbands? NFP won’t help them.” Which sounds like it came straight out of the cookbook for trolls. I’ve had people that really surprised me when I answered honestly.

No, NFP on it’s own won’t help a poor women in an polygamous, abusive marriage, but for the same reason that contraception won’t help her. The problem of the abuse needs to be addressed. The problem of laws that allow for her degradation need to be addressed. The problem of a society that thinks little of her genius needs to be addressed. Unfortunately, a pill will not provide a quick fix and will only insert more pain. With NFP you at least have the opportunity to give women the understanding of how their bodies work, with no horrible side effects that she can’t get medical treatment for. What is needed is the philosophical mindset of a Christian society that says every human is unique, valuable and loved and shouldn’t be used as an object for another person’s pleasure.

@Kathleen, Didn’t Melinda Gates attend Catholic schools?  I remember reading something along those lines.  I think she was also being honored by a group of nuns who were lauding her efforts in providing contraception for poor women etc.
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I’d also like to point out the obvious: A man who doesn’t respect his wife and or is promiscuous, is the *last* person who would care to wear a condom.  Also, as it has been stated over and over again, the hormones in the contraceptive pill actually increase a woman’s chance of contracting HIV.  I agree with Lady Cygnus that the 5 billion could be put to work in a truly humanitarian way.
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As for the PPD discussion above, does anyone have actual depression rates for women in Nigeria vs. women in the U.S. in general?  That would give a more accurate picture about general happiness in general and I think would be telling about how much happiness material goods actually buy.

Also, please take note that gay men in the United States, even with access to condoms have an average life span that is shockingly short.  Look this up.  Promiscuity equals death. Period.

It needs to be pointed out that Nigeria has a largely Catholic south and a largely Muslim north. We know many students from the south of Nigeria who, whilst quite poor, have told us about an enviable community life, with large families supporting each other… they have all expressed their surprise at the lack of such a Catholic community here (in Australia). It is interesting that the gender roles are certainly heavily influenced by their own cultural heritage, but even then they have shown how their Catholic faith animates their lives and this in turn leads to a general desire to go against those cultural norms in preference to virtue.  May I give just two ‘down to earth’ examples.  It is unusual for Nigerian men to assist women with domestic chores; one man tells the story of how he could not bear to see his sisters and mother have to carry the large water pots the very long distance to collect water. As soon as he was old enough and strong enough, he took over this chore and ignored the mocking he received from others. Another young man whose mother had died, imitated his father in learning how to do all the domestic chores and sharing them with him: Cooking, washing, etc. even though both he and his father were told numerous times that grief must have sent them mad, and the evidence was in the fact they did the ‘women’s work’.  Faith and the desire to love God, is the one thing that does make a difference to how people choose to live.

Oh, boy, I apologize for having too much to say, but I just wanted to add a pertinent fact about fertility rates in Africa.  Due to diet, body weight, and most importantly lactation infertility,(suckling on demand), some tribes have an average of as much as 42 months between babies.  It is no wonder that the WHO promotes breastfeeding as the obvious, natural, and moral choice for the regulation of fertility.  God’s method works the best.

Well said!  And a message that we need to hear loud and clear.

Posted by anna lisa on Wednesday, Aug 22, 2012 2:46 PM (EST):@Kathleen, Didn’t Melinda Gates attend Catholic schools? “
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I think I read that, too. And that’s why she might be approachable to hearing Catholic views.

@ Kathleen, yes the optimist in me agrees with you.  I’m always trying to keep the pessimist at bay.  Some of those angry, ultra feminist nuns and their world view just scare me though.  It’s easier to reason with a pagan, who hasn’t been brainwashed with an agenda.

Thank you Jennifer for drawing your readers attention to this issue. In my opinion, it doesn’t get enough attention.
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There is one thing worth noting about your first point on condoms and chauvinistic male behavior. While condoms are a huge part of the family planning budget (USAID spent $22.3 million on condoms in 2010, last available data), the Big Thing in family planning circles is “the shot,” aka Depo-Provera or “injectables” as they are known in development circles. The US alone spent $20.9 million on injectables (USAID Deliver Project 2010). The lure of injectables is that women can go to a health clinic periodically and get the shot without the knowledge of her husband. Without the husband’s knowledge of the contraception, there is no power struggle. Of course, this ignores the glaring problem of men who do not love and respect their wives, favoring “sneaking around” and deception to honest confrontation of unhealthy relationship and/or cultural attitudes. This is a common problem in the family planning and reproductive rights world: short-cut band-aids that ignore long-term solutions. The same mistake is made when foreign aid workers push “sex worker rights” and sexual autonomy for young adolescents age 10+, rather than fighting for an end to exploitative sex work (which is to say, all of it) and safety, chastity, and virtue among preteens and adolescents.
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On a larger scale, the family planning paternalism is quite breath-taking, much of it undertaken in the name of environmentalism and sustainability. Not surprisingly, some of the largest population policy/family planning initiatives are supported by extremely wealthy first world moguls: George Soros, the Packard Foundation, William and Flora Hewlett Foundation, Rockefeller Foundation, and of course, the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation. Also notable: DKT International, the massive “philanthropic” endeavor of Phil Harvey, who created his empire in the adult entertainment industry. Then there are governments: the U.S. appropriating $524 million for Family Planning versus a mere $95 million for nutrition aid in 2012, for instance. To put that in concrete terms, in one year (2010) the U.S. bought and shipped abroad 744,366,780 contraceptives (USAID Deliver Project). That doesn’t even cover the NGOs and the UN: WHO (ex. researching misoprosol/mifepristone dosages for second trimester abortions, HRP Biennial Technical Report 2009-10) or UNFPA (ex. AccessRH, the Concept Foundation, or the Lancet study that used UNFPA funding to test medical abortions in Nepal, to name just a few: (http://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(10)62229-5/fulltext#article_upsell)). The web of donors, coalitions, and projects targeting the developing world for population control, family planning, and “values clarification” is staggering. I would be remiss to point out the real good that many of these groups effect on the developing world (e.g. maternal health, economic development, malaria treatment, HIV research), but unfortunately, the good is laced with a toxic world view.
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I could go on all day with statistics and facts from the foreign aid world that would make you cringe, but I’ll get off my soapbox now.

Thanks Lady Cygnus for giving me the benefit of the doubt.  I appreciate it.  Umm that actually is my question/concern about rape/NFP/contraception.  I don’t think it is a troll like question.  I do think that women in situations like should have access to contraception.  As I believe the nuns working under the threat of rape did in the 60’s in the Congo.  Of course that will not fix the root of the problem.  But while there is no solution to the problem it is a bandaid.  I don’t believe that Human Vitae insists women in these situations must not use contraception.  The woman in that situation should have the right to decide for herself.  It it true that contraception will not fix the foundation of this culture that does not respect women.  That problem already exists without contraception. So contraception has not caused it.  And yes I do believe if the foundation is not fixed contraception will add to it if widely distributed.  Individual severe cases of abuse I think it could possibly be helpful.  It is obviously a troubling topic and I truly can not imagine what it is like to live in that circumstance. 

Thanks Kathleen and all for engaging the post partum dialogue.  I really took that to heart and perhaps more so because of my own battle with PPD in the past.  It came across as very ignorant to me.  I’ve never met a woman who suffered PPD who did not love her baby or consider that baby a welcome gift.  It is not often I meet a woman in the US who views her children as a burden but perhaps I live in a small world and tend to be with like minded people.  The letter writer clearly implied that women suffer PPD because they viewed their child as unwanted.  (What other conclusion could you draw from that?) Furthermore on other Catholic blogs I heard other women chime in and agree with it. So that really was distressing.  Thanks for understanding.

I did do research online with studies done in the US and Nigeria.  The rates in the US run 10-20%. The Nigerian studies pointed more towards 20-30%.  (Perhaps there is a difference in North versus South).  Either way post partum depression in not an indicator of whether a woman truly loves or wants her child or not.  It was a poor reference in my opinion.  I suspect the letter writer never heard of post partum depression because she was not well educated on it.  Or possibly the Nigerian women associate a stigma with mental illness and do not acknowledge it in some circles.  As she implies it somehow relates to whether they value their chldren or not.

I hope that clarifies my thoughts in a respectful manner.

Excellent article!
I have found it interesting that here in the USA many poor women actually want children.  Not for the exact reasons you describe here, but they still have a longing which they think a child will fill.  Longing for love, longing for something to do when other prospects are so bleak, longing to be the center of someone’s life, longing to build a family of their own because the one they came from is so bad.  Contraception and abortion isn’t going to fill those longings.

@concernedwoman, I think that PPD is complicated.  A firstborn is a shock. For the most part women never quite live for another until an innocent, vulnerable, and needy child is suddenly and utterly dependent upon us. 24-7 is a HUGE DEAL (I was a 21-y.o who grew up with a fair amount of wealth). The fact that our newborns are so in need, doesn’t make the sudden rupture with our former life easy. Family support and friends fill a huge gap in the way of bolstering a woman up who is suffering from this sudden change.  Unfortunately this support is not always available or 100% bulletproof.  Did not Christ Himself suffer in the garden at the prospect of suffering? I guess my problem is that I don’t like to call this initial suffering “depression”.  For me, depression is something more on the hopeless side.  But then again I had a mother sisters, and husband to help me, and lean on.  Not everyone has this blessing.  I suspect women in Nigeria are more blessed with this than many women in the U.S.

Concernedwoman:  do you have any concerns about these women being offered abortifacient contraceptives (such as the injectibles that Anna mentions), or do you disagree with Church teaching on abortion as well as contraception?

And as far as Catholics agreeing with the premise that PPD equates viewing children as unwanted:  not one Catholic on this blog has chimed in to agree with that.  Everyone here who has commented on PPD has made accurate, educated statements.  I guess we should be happy that Catholic ignorance somehow eluded this blog.

concernedwoman,
Perhaps the whole Western treatment of birth contributes something to the incidence of PPD.If you contrast that to traditional birthing methods & the family & community support new moms receive in other cultures,I think in comparison we come up short in the West. For all the medical advances & technology we have, women are less autonomous in the delivery of their own children.

Hi Claire,

To answer your question of why I read Catholic blogs when I don’t subscribe (particularly) to the Church’s teachings is this:

I chanced on the New Advent homepage when doing some general reading and because I am an interested person who values greater understanding I’ve kept reading - not just about parenting/ contraceptive issues, but some of the other writers. Also, I have a mother-in-law who is a very faithful, conservative Catholic but who is not terribly articulate, so reading some articles and responses can help me to understand her positions better. I can understand your not browsing ‘planned parenthood’ blogs, as you say, if such a thing exists but I find that I understand my own positions more when I consider opposing views. Sometimes I even adjust my thinking! Other times I really think that the Catholic position is wrong.

One more general thought before I get back to paid work: after my first child was born, even though I was tired and not especially happy with her father, I felt LOVE like crazy (for everyone and everything). It was hormones. PPD is a hormonal response to childbirth, worsened by stress factors. How well you can cope with your stress is part of the equation.

Kind Regards, KHoward.

KHoward:  thank you for your perspective.  That was helpful.

concernedwoman, just FYI, in traditional African polygnous societies, there was a form of family planning, in that the husband, despite Western ideas of rampant randyness to the contrary, was not busily impregnating all his wives all the time. Additionally, women tended to breastfeed their children for 2 or more years, which tends to (but not absolutely, as a sister-in-law of mine found out!) suppress ovulation and prevent pregnancy. The Nestle company’s aggressive campaign of converting women to bottlefeeding their babies put an end to that. (And BTW, I am NOT advocating polygyny, merely reporting the ethnography of the region.)

SouthCoast ,
Thanks.I’m no expert on Africa, nor polygamy, but I do think Western culture see’s other societies through our own, sex-saturated filter.Our ways are not necessarily their ways.

“My biggest concern, however, is the one that Ms. Ekeocha articulates so well in her letter: We need to be very, very, very, very careful about assuming that women in developing countries wish they had fewer children. Even in cases where women are not considered equals in marriage the way Western women are, are we sure that they yearn for small families? In places without stable social services programs or reliable police forces, a woman’s protectors are her kids. If her husband’s behavior goes downhill and he becomes violent or unstable, or she faces trouble of any other kind, her mostly likely defense is older children who can intervene on her behalf.”
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Are you a social worker? Family dynamics in abusive/impoverished households are much more complex! The children often get sent to foster homes and are emotionally scarred for life. Many children are killed (read the papers, watch the local news!). Children go hungry, and get violent themselves. Every family situation is different and has different needs.
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Stop pretending you’re an authority on things you know nothing about.

SandraR ,
Asking for prudence, rather than assuming Westerners know what’s best for other cultures is not pretending to be an authority. It’s the opposite.

You express MY thoughts beautifully, Jennifer!  Bless you.

SandraR

You made a good point in that sometimes in situations where the husband is abusive the boys in particular grow up to also be abusive. And having children so that they can protect you from your abusive husband is really backwards thinking. However, even though I have read things here and there I really do not have enough knowledge to make formulate any solutions to these grave problems.  I don’t know what the women of Nigeria yearn for so I won’t try to speak for them.

Anna Lisa,

You are right PPD is complicated. I did have a lot of support socially and emotionally from friends and family so that is not why I suffered from PPD.  There are many complex issues involved including all those crazy hormone changes.  And if you remember the stats I researched the rate of PPD is higher in Nigeria than it is in the US.  So while they have social support they still have PPD present.  I don’t know enough about Nigeria and the culture to know what daily life is like for a woman there.  I suppose a polygamous marriage gives a woman alot of support but it surely isn’t something I would promote. The info I looked at put the number of polygamous marriages at 40%. 

Claire, While I find this topic of interest I feel you twist everything I say and you engage in dialogue in a very combative way so I am not going to continue to dialogue with you. I’m not sure why you feel the need to be so aggresive with someone asking questions. I really don’t have definitive answers like you do so I don’t have more to say except I’m sure I’ll do some more research on the subject.  As I said above the comments about PPD struck a cord with me because of my own personal journey and perhaps that is why I felt stronger about it than others. I was expressing my own opinion.  Perhaps I still need some healing from that from my own experience with PPD. I’m sure I could use a few lessons on dialogue myself.  Anyway, I wish you well.

The author of this article is very intelligent, and even if you disagree with something she says, it is a little over the top to accuse her of backwards thinking.  If any thought processes here are distorted, it’s the idea of instructing someone to watch the local news in order to discern what’s happening in Nigeria (Nigeria isn’t exactly local, and I don’t think it has a foster care system).  But true to form, you are quick to criticize the Catholic author and quick to chime in with anyone else who does as well.

concernedwoman:  I don’t feel the need to be aggressive with people asking questions.  However, your questions, here and on other forums, are subtle attacks on anything that resembles conservative Catholicism.  Even that would be understandable if you were honest about where you’re coming from, like KHoward was.  Just look at your history on this thread.  You started off saying that you were here seeking to learn.  You then went on to say that you disagree with the approach of teaching NFP to these women.  You then pointed out that you don’t think the Catholic websites present an accurate picture of what goes on in Nigeria, and further down implied that you have doubts about whether the Church is speaking in truth on these issues.  A little further down, you said that you believe these women should have access to artificial contraception.  And threw in a comment about ignorance about PPD on Catholic blogs.  I actually don’t remember seeing any questions in any of your comments.  It doesn’t seem to me that you were here to ask questions, or to learn.  It seems to me that your comments have all revolved around pointing out what you feel are errors in this article and in the way most conservative Catholics are analyzing/approaching this situation.  Which, again, would be understandable if you were clear on where you were coming from at the start of the discussion.  But you weren’t, and to me that feels like game-playing.  If you don’t want to continue dialoguing with me, fine.  I will try to avoid responding to your comments, with the operative word being “try”, because I don’t want to make a promise that I’m not sure I can keep.  If I do feel the need to respond to a point you make, I will try my best to respond to the comment itself without addressing you directly.

“SandraR ,
Asking for prudence, rather than assuming Westerners know what’s best for other cultures is not pretending to be an authority. It’s the opposite.”
.
So it’s OK for Catholics to say what’s best for other cultures? It just what this article assumes. I’ll bet Jennifer never traveled 50 miles outside her Catholic parish, yet she claims to know “what’s best” for everyone else.
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Catholic arrogance is extremely disgusting.

SandraR ,
Accusing others of making assumptions is in itself an assumption.Dialogue becomes difficult when entered with preconceptions.And I think Western preconceptions of Africa can differ from what African women may really want.That was the issue of the letter in question & the subject of this article.

Posted by SandraR on Sunday, Aug 26, 2012 6:46 PM (EST):

So it’s OK for Catholics to say what’s best for other cultures? It just what this article assumes. I’ll bet Jennifer never traveled 50 miles outside her Catholic parish, yet she claims to know “what’s best” for everyone else.
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Catholic arrogance is extremely disgusting.

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Too funny. Pot meet kettle.

It’s not a theory Gloria (or Sandra).

Gloria ,
You just commented on another NCR blog today that poor, black Catholics had a special place reserved in hell.
It’s kind of difficult to hold civil conversation with someone who posts things like that.

And Gloria (Angela/Barbara/Beatrice/Sandra,...):  don’t even flatter yourself that anyone here would assume Concerned Woman is one of you.  You are in a league all your own (that’s the collective “your”).

The jury is still out on Sandra.  The only way to tell for sure is if she starts in with the vulgar insults/preteen age boy humor, obsession with Mother Teresa, statements that are unintelligible, etc.

Interesting how those who want the Church to “stay out of their bedrooms” have no problem flooding third world countries with taxpayer money and of course funds from wealthy foundations to provide condoms, etc. The pro-choice folks are touting the achievement of 45 million “safe and legal” abortions in the US, a country that is awash in every imaginable type of contraceptive. If the concept of contraception doesn’t work here, why would it work in Nigeria, where women don’t have the freedoms and advantages they do here? Often it seems as if the child is identified as the “problem”, the little interloper who is at the root of all society’s ills. If women would simply stop procreating, poverty and injustice would disappear. Really? It seems outrageous to marry at 15, but when old age is 52, it may not be so unreasonable. Apples to oranges. But NFP undeniably gives women an option that educates her and that depends less on a partner’s good intentions and not at all on drug manufacturers. The Gates Foundation might want to consider spending its billions on vaccines and medical care. What’s wrong with helping Nigerian women raise healthy children rather than helping eliminate them?

Camille ,
I agree. You hear repeatedly that developing countries are flooded with contraceptives but clinics can lack basic medicines to treat disease.What message does that give?

The censors are working today!
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Camille and Kathleen—you actually made a point, but, just like with Planned Parenthood, you are accusing the Gates Foundation solely for funding contraception. They are spending their money on saving lives—including vaccinations, medicines, and helping pregnant women have safe birthing and health babies.
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http://www.grandchallenges.org/Pages/Default.aspx
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It is the Catholic Church, and it\‘s lies about contraception and condoms that is spreading the misery and STDs in third world countries and in any other population that has limited education resources for taking charge of their own health.
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http://lezgetreal.com/2012/03/catholic-bishops-violate-9th-commandment-to-lie-about-contraception/

SandraR—warning Claire is really the WRATH OF NATIONAL CATHOLIC REGISTER! She is judging you, so you better please her with your comments or she will add your name to her list of the banned and the damned!)

Some people really like talking to themselves.  (In between their comments being deleted…)  How boring life must be when ample free time is spent playing immature games.

Oh, and speaking of wrath (to borrow a very appropriate phrase from anon on Monday 8/27 at 10:38 am):  Pot meet kettle.

I think the Gates Foundation, to their credit,has done good things in the past-both in the US & abroad.I’d like to believe Mrs. Gates would be open to dialogue with Catholic & African women about the issues expressed in this letter.

\“Pot meet kettle\” is just another \“tu quoque\” rant to avoid answering my charges. The Catholic church (and Catholics themselves) lie about contraception and hold the reputation of the Church above human welfare.
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While it truly would make me ashamed to be like you, at least I have the sense to be ashamed for you as well.

That really hurts, since I respect and admire you so much and hold your opinion in such high regard.

You really know how to spread the $hit across the checker board.

You’re right Gloria, I should not have made that comment.  I apologize.

And I believe you (sarcasm).

If I didn’t mean it, I probably would have added a comment about “sinking to your level”.  I didn’t do that, because I was sincerely sorry.  But if you don’t want to believe me, that’s your choice.  My responsibility is only to apologize after doing something wrong;  whether or not to accept the apology is up to you and is beyond my control.

After you replies to me, you should think it\‘s natural that I take the \“sincerity\” of your apology with a large grain of salt.
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Now, I NEVER changed my name on this blog. Will you apologize for that bogus comment—or don\‘t you believe that?

I don’t make bogus comments Gloria. I did make a comment to you that was uncalled for, I apologized for it, and now I think it’s time that I resume my previous policy of refraining from engaging you in dialogue.

Well, there you are. Just because you don\‘t like \“my attitude\” you\‘re going to put every one who doesn\‘t say things to your liking in the same group of college students. Nice plan, for some one who can\‘t defend her faith logically.

Well, there you are.

Claire is starting up a new group on Jennifer\‘s past article on infertility!  Nice to know she\‘s moving on to fresh meat.

An infertility article?  That’s news to me.  I think there might be some reading comprehension issues going on here…

Well, contraception, then. The article of about the pain of women who can\‘t have children—I thought it was more than just obeying a husband\‘s command.
.
Again, you are dodging my comment. I see Kellyann and Casting Crowns are getting pretty sore at you.

Your imaginary friends are “sore” at me?  Oh well.

This is going to be interesting!

I know, I know, I once again broke my promise to refrain from responding to you.  But those last two comments were priceless.  I just couldn’t resist.

Should I go back to the last post and write that you won\‘t be responding to Kellyann and Casting Crown? Have you jumped to the conclusion that they are me?

Hi. The content is really Good

“The promotion of abortion and contraception in third-world countries is tantamount to eugenics”
What a stupid thing to say!  Oh, you’re a Catholic.  Never mind.
“What they’re saying is that artificial contraception is not the answer.”
Of course it’s not “THE ANSWER”.  But it certainly could help a lot more that it could hurt.  Not counting the sensibilities of silly Catholics of course.
“we bully the world into thinking controlling the population is good for them”
It would seem that you have a contrary opinion.  Why?  You want them to continue to live in poverty?  Die young?
“Yup, to eradicate poverty by eradicating the poor.”
Well, if they are poor, then they are living in poverty.  If they are not living in poverty, then either they are not poor or they are not alive.  7 billion really is too many people.  Most live and die in poverty.  Most die too young.  Would it be better to have only two children who are not quite so poor or 8 children who are all desperately poor?  Why shouldn’t a mother have that choice?  Because it offends your Catholic sensibilities?  Why must you impose your morality on others?  What gives you that right?

Careful, JD—Claire will start writing that you are part of the “Gloria group!”
.
Try to remember, that the people are NOT BEING FORCED to take contraception and/or have abortions! They are not being “fooled” either—and to imply that this is so is another arrogant Catholic assumption that they know better than other cultures. They are being educated about contraception and given the option of safe abortion should it be necessary.
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Catholics want to keep the uninformed and let women die rather than end a pregnancy that endangers her life and health. They also want AIDS to spread by lying about condoms.
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What can you expect when members of the clergy suggest that teenagers seduce their abusers?

“It seems that a truly compassionate solution would be one that works to address the root of the problem, rather than throwing a Band-Aid over the situation in the form of condoms or the Pill.”
Considering the rate of single parents in the US, perhaps you should worry about the US.  Revise the US tax laws so that a single mother and her children starve to death instead of receiving $5000 in subsidies from the US government.  Also eliminate the “Food Stamp” program.

Before there was relatively safe abortion, infanticide was common even in Europe.  From Wikipedia:
“Whereas theologians and clerics preached sparing their lives, newborn abandonment continued as registered in both the literature record and in legal documents.[4] According to William L. Langer, exposure in the Middle Ages “was practiced on gigantic scale with absolute impunity, noticed by writers with most frigid indifference”.[43] At the end of the 12th century, notes Richard Trexler, Roman women threw their newborns into the Tiber river in daylight.[44]

Unlike other European regions, in the Middle Ages the German mother had the right to expose the newborn.[45] In Gotland, Sweden, children were also sacrificed.[46]

In the High Middle Ages, abandoning unwanted children finally eclipsed infanticide. Unwanted children were left at the door of church or abbey, and the clergy was assumed to take care of their upbringing. This practice also gave rise to the first orphanages.”

I would rather see a child raised in an orphanage than killed.  And, infanticide occurs today, as does infant abandonment.  Furthermore, I don’t see any difference between infantacide vs aborting a 22-week old viable baby.

“I don’t see any difference between infantacide vs aborting a 22-week old viable baby.”
Fortunately the current US government does.  Revolution!  Theocracy!  Sharia Law!  Oops.

There’s nothing fortunate about it.  It’s very tragic that our country has a legal mandate for aborting a viable baby and leaving him or her to die (or killing him or her on the way out).  God help us all.

Posted by JD Hughes:
“Unlike other European regions, in the Middle Ages the German mother had the right to expose the newborn.”
********
Not to pick on Germany, but why would we not be surprised?
Seriously though, wikipedia? There wasn’t a “Germany” as we know it in the Middle Ages.

Infanticide is discussed on pages 415-426 of “The Better Angels of Our Nature” by Steven Pinker.  Page 424: “In the absence of contraception, abortion, or an elaborate system of social welfare, many children will be born without suitable caregivers to bring them to adulthood.  Taboo or no taboo, many of those newborns will end up dead.”  [The taboo is that human life is sacred.]  Page 425:  “Women were invited to drop off their unwanted babies at foundling homes ... The mortality rates for the inhabitants of these homes ranged from 50 percent to more than 99 percent.”  “Many a child who survived infancy was sent to a workhouse ...”  “Dickens in Oliver Twist: “it did perversely happen in eight and a half cases out of ten” ... “the miserable little being was summoned into another world” ...” Pinker:  “Even with these contrivances, tiny corpses were a frequent sight in parks, under bridges, and in ditches.  According to a British coroner in 1862: “The police seemed to think no more of finding a dead child than they did of finding a dead cat or a dead dog.”“

From Wikipedia:  “Following World War II, most orphanages in the U.S. began closing. Over the past few decades, orphanages in the U.S. have been replaced with smaller institutions that try to provide a group home or boarding school environment. Most children who would have been in orphanages are in these Residential Treatment Centers (RTC), Group Homes or with foster families. Adopting from RTCs, Group Homes and foster families require working with an adoption agency.”

“It’s very tragic that our country has a legal mandate for aborting a viable baby and leaving him or her to die.”
Your statement is a gross distortion of reality.  You should obtain a better understanding of the various laws in the United States.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abortion_in_the_United_States

Posted by JD Hughes ,
Children have always been considered a burden by some & it’s very true that abuse preceded modern times.But we can do better as a society.
(And there are far better sources than wikipedia.)

Sorry,
I meant to post a comment directed to JD Hughes remarks, not appear to quote those remarks.

“But we can do better as a society.”
Of course.  Read “The Better Angels of Our Nature”.  There has been enormous improvement in almost every respect in the last however many years in the free and democratic societies.  (20, 40, 50, 100, 200, 400 years or longer)
“(And there are far better sources than wikipedia.)”
You failed to specify any source at all.  Many Wikipedia statements have references.  Website for “Christian Orphanages”:
“Orphanages were the primary way of caring for indigent or unwanted children in the USA from the mid-19th century into the mid-20th century. After that, foster homes and small institutions like group homes replaced orphanages. Recent studies have shown that well-run orphanages generally offer far better experiences for children than does the foster care system, and some orphanages are once again in operation in the USA. For more, see here.
And that “here” references a Duke University report:
“There are about 143 million orphaned children, and tens of millions more abandoned, in the world today. Over a half-million American kids are in foster care (which is often luxury care by the standards of orphanage care in poor countries), but still a sizable percentage of American foster-care kids will have their disadvantages compounded in one important way: They will spend their entire childhoods in the worst of all possible situations, “permanent temporary care,” in which they will be moved from one placement to the next to the next, many losing count of their foster homes before they “age out” of the system at 18.”
It’s a difficult problem.  But a single mother with 1 or 2 or 3 or more children can earn 10 or 15 thousand dollars a year and get another 5 or 6 or 7 thousand dollars in “income tax refunds” (but of course they pay no actual income taxes).  So there’s a lot of incentive to keep your children.  But after about 3 children, the cost/benefit ratio changes.  And, of course, typically the children of a single mother do not fare as well in public education.  Why should Catholics be able to impose their morality on others?  Elect your theocrats and get a couple of new Supreme Court judges and perhaps you could return the US to illegal abortions.

You’re trying to impose your morality, which judges babies to be better off murdered in the womb than born into the foster care system.  Maybe we should just legalize murder and rape, since they happen anyway.

“You’re trying to impose your morality”
Hooray.  Pirates of the world rejoice.  From now on there will be looting, pillaging, burning and sometimes ravishing.  Aaaaaarrrrr!
“which judges babies to be better off murdered in the womb than born into the foster care system.”
In 1973, there was a Supreme Court decision called Roe vs Wade.  Have you heard of it?  The court decided that the women would have the “choice” of deciding what to do.  The women gets to make her own decision.  (Subject to various restrictions passed by the various states)  This is the current “morality” regardless of your Catholic wishes.  Speaking of “judging”:
http://freethoughtblogs.com/biodork/2012/09/10/clinic-escorting-encounters/
“Maybe we should just legalize murder and rape”
You must be a woman - your emotions have taken control and you have completely lost your ability to reason.

If women are so irrational and emotional,  how can they be trusted with making decisions for themselves?  So in addition to a lack of concern about the lives of unborn babies, you’re also sexist.  Your credibility diminishes with every comment you post.

JD Hughes ,
If you do not believe an unborn child is a human life worthy of rights, then your argument to uphold Roe vs Wade might make sense.At least to those who also hold that belief.
If you propose killing the unborn for the purpose of bettering society, then you’re arguing eugenics.

“If women are so irrational and emotional”
Hilarious.  I chose one particular statement that you made and now you are trying to generalize that into a blanket condemnation.  How like a woman!
“Your credibility diminishes with every comment you post.”
Why should I have any “credibility”?  This is the Internet and you have no idea who I am.
“If you do not believe an unborn child is a human life worthy of rights ...”
What I believe is unimportant unless I choose to “act” upon that belief.  I am merely pointing the “reality” of the current situation nearly 40 years after Roe vs. Wade.
“If you propose killing the unborn for the purpose of bettering society”
Of course I proposed absolutely nothing.  I pointed out “reality” to you and you start jumping to all sorts of possibilities.  You are trying to guess my motives.  How like a woman!

Your post is full of blanket condemnations of women (“how like a woman”, “you must be a woman”, etc).

JD Hughes,
I said “if.”

“Your post is full of blanket condemnations of women”
Hilarious.  Two is “full”.  You said:
“If women are so irrational and emotional, how can they be trusted with making decisions for themselves?”
I think that is a really stupid thing to say.  I doubt that a Catholic man would say something that stupid.  I assume they would have a some capability to reason.
“If you propose killing the unborn for the purpose of bettering society”
Yes, you said “if”.  It is still a very insulting statement.  How like a Catholic to try to jump to something so stupid!  If you propose blowing up abortion clinics, ...  Now you proposed no such thing.  Wouldn’t you consider that an insult?  If you propose to overturn Roe vs. Wade, ...  Oops.  You would probably approve of that.  Well, overturning 40 years of reality might be a challenge.

Twice you said “how like a woman” and once you said “you must be a woman”.  Even once incidence of one of those blanket condemnations would be excessive.  Even one occurrence is enough to reveal how sexist you are.  And your decision to resort to name calling reveals your immaturity and pettiness, and your true reason for being here (to play games, not to have an intelligent discussion).  Something I should have realized a few comments ago.  These games might be fun for you (how sad if this is what you need to have fun), but they really aren’t worth my time or attention.  So keep talking, but don’t expect a response from me.  I’ll save my responses for people who are interested in a constructive discussion.

“Even once incidence of one of those blanket condemnations would be excessive.”
It is an insult for you to claim such specific instances of my calling out your irrationality as a “blanket condemnation” of women.  Anyone can be irrational, but women are much better at it.  Now there’s a real “blanket condemnation”.
“And your decision to resort to name calling”
Hilarious.  Calling you a “woman” is “name calling”???  You are not very specific here.
“I’ll save my responses for people who are interested in a constructive discussion.”
Fine.  I never expected a “constructive discussion” from Catholics.
Kathleen: “Melinda Gates has done much good through the Gates Foundation in other projects, but in this case the efforts are misguided & can be used by those seeking eugenic solutions to Third World populations.”
Kathleen uses “eugenic solutions” and expects “constructive discussion”???  She is simply a “misguided” Catholic who demands the “perfect” and rejects the merely “good”.
Claire: “I don’t think Jennifer or anyone else is denying that women’s rights are compromised in Nigeria.  What they’re saying is that artificial contraception is not the answer.”
To which I responded - it’s not THE ANSWER, it’s part of the answer.  Once again you are rejecting the “good” because it’s not “perfect” in your Catholic-biased eyes.  There can be no “constructive discussion” because your religion absolutely rejects any attempt at a compromise to achieve the good instead of your requirement for the Catholic perfect.

Why are you still talking to me, when I told you I am no longer interested in a dialogue with you?  And is hilarious your favorite word?  And if you have a brain at all, why should I have to specifically explain to you what parts of your posts involve name-calling.  If you want to keep wasting your breath with your sexist, bigoted comments, go ahead, but from now on you will be talking to yourself (unless anyone here feels like dialoguing with someone who just admitted that they did not come here to have a constructive discussion).

“Melinda Gates has done much good through the Gates Foundation in other projects, but in this case the efforts are misguided & can be used by those seeking eugenic solutions to Third World populations.”
****
Dear JD,
This was the correct quote.
“Can be used.”
In Catholic teaching there is no “good” in abortion nor in attempts to reduce poverty through the elimination of the unborn poor.
But, God bless!
I’m glad you are interested enough in the issues to enter in the conversation on an orthodox Catholic site.That certainly takes some chutzpah.

“And is hilarious your favorite word?”
On this web site - yes - you religious crazies are quite hilarious.
“can be used”
Yes, you said “can be used”.  That’s still incredibly stupid.
From Wikipedia:  “Eugenics is the “applied science or the bio-social movement which advocates the use of practices aimed at improving the genetic composition of a population”, usually a human population.”
Suggesting that dispensing methods for contraception “can be used” for eugenics is simply crazy.

“In Catholic teaching there is no “good” in abortion nor in attempts to reduce poverty through the elimination of the unborn poor.”
I know that and that is one good reason why you people are crazy.
The good is not acceptable because it is not perfect according to your dogma.
“enter in the conversation”
Nope.  I’m here to criticize and laugh at your silly religious prejudices.
“That certainly takes some chutzpah.”
Nope.  It is very easy to ridicule religious dogma.  And you have no rational defense.

Irrational and prejudiced describes certain trolls perfectly.

So does hypocritical.  And ignorant (with a limited vocabulary).

Today’s newspapers:  Daughters ages 11-13 are being sold as wives in Niger because the crops have failed again and the families cannot afford to support their daughters.  So, the obvious conclusion - have more babies that you cannot afford to support - not.
http://www.fresnobee.com/2012/09/16/2994338/in-niger-child-marriage-on-rise.html