Imagine a world where NOTHING bad ever happened…think on that for a bit. Everything was good. Any of us could enjoy it but imagine how quickly we would all become disconnected from one another. There is a great blessing in the human bond that comes from assisting one-another through suffering.
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I agree that the crucifix is a wonderful meditation and example and its real and we need to integrate it into our service, but in that moment where the rubber meets the road and the person next to us is suffering, we need to be like the good samaritan who washes and binds the wounds & carries the man to a safe place.
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I’ve been a nurse for 26 years and it has required me to endure more fatigue, abuse, risk and tedium than anyone would want to read about, but it has given me the chance to be the person with the role of binding the wound or holding the grieving or preparing the dead…when I read your post it must sound to many to be a rhetorical question, but to me there is an actual answer - an opportunity to serve and help relieve the suffering.
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Its not just Nurses & Doctors who have this opportunity… each of us in our different vocations has a chance to help the suffering in different ways and times. Moms, dads, teachers, coaches, Clergy & Religious each one has opportunities. For us on the front lines of suffering, if I have just spent hours caring for a dying infant, I can really use some kindness and decency from the capable and polite banker, cashier, or car repair guy. There have been times when I was able to hold it together being in the midst or terrible loss and suffering but was reduced to tears when trying to buy dog food on my way home if the person Im interacting with is mean to me.
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Suffering gives us opportunities to give compassion and kindness, but if we fall into despair and dont use them to serve one another then suffering wins.

Amen!  It might help to have a few solid books on the Catholic/Christian understanding of suffering.  C.S. Lewis did this in The Problem of Pain.  Basically anything written by Mother Teresa talks about human suffering.  John Paul II wrote an apostolic letter on it:  On the Christian Meaning of Human Suffering.  There are many, many more excellent resources out there.  But I think you’re right, sometimes reading a book is too intellectual, too coldly logical, to be of any help in the face of the raw pain of suffering.  The crucifix is a beautiful, simple catechism for us, and it also is the reason why we must also show love for the person who is struggling.

wonderful article… thanks for sharing

Maybe we’re looking too hard for the theological answer? Maybe the answer is…
God is in the work of the Sisters of Mercy to help suffering people in mining communities that have been used, abused, and deserted by large corporations. God is in the St. Vincent DePaul organizations that work to help the poor and hungry. God is in the Catholic hospitals that are founded all over the world to help the sick. God is in Providence House Domestic Violence Services of Catholic Charities in the Diocese of Trenton.

Where is God when people suffer? That’s where God is… in the people of the Catholic Church who are taking care of them.

I appreciate what nurse Tammy wrote. And Jennifer I think you came up with the best answer. And there will always be people you will never get through to, and so I choose to pray for them. I avoid arguments by saying how grateful I am to know that Jesus Christ is my Savior and that my devotion to the blessed Mother is boundless. I have found that when I say that, the argument ends. I was diagnosed with a neuromuscular disease over 6 years ago and it took 2 years before I grew stronger in my faith and I am grateful to God that I have this disease because my faith has grown stronger and I believe that this diagnosis is a blessing, not anything that is negative.

Beautiful Jennifer.  This issue of complex questions when all people have time for is a sound-byte answer has always frustrated me.

I have two children with cystic fibrosis.  My husband was a pentecostal pastor but we converted (Thank God, together) and became Catholic 7 years ago.  The Church’s teachings on redemptive suffering saved my life.  Saved. My. Life.

BINGO.

God bless you Nurse Tammy. This is why I am studying medicine.

“Suffering ...this is the kiss of Jesus…suffering is a gift from God.  It is between you and Jesus alone inside.”  Blessed Mother Teresa of Calcutta

Yes. Amen.  Thank you.

@ allison…  “Saved. My. Life.”
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Wow, what a powerful testimony. Having been protestant myself, I totally get this but your words…I find them powerful. Please tell this story and tell it and tell it,,,people NEED it.

Only Christians would make suffering a virtue. It’s good to punish people to save marriage, or not acting appropriately. God allows bad things to prevent sin.

Allison—I hope you are getting medical care for your children, and not just praying for them. Suffering is NEVER good and NEVER makes anyone a “better person” for allowing it to happen.

Frankie—your quote from Mother Teresa just proves what a sick **** she was.  Mother Teresa is responsible for greatest number of preventable deaths by illness and poverty since WW II.
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She thought suffering was for other people—not for herself. She got the most expensive medical care money could buy when she needed it. Many people hate her. Any religion that holds her as an example of sainthood is really screwed.

Wow Caroline, I wish you peace.  You are clearly a troubled woman full of anger, and I pray you find healing from your suffering.  I’ll ask Blessed Teresa to pray for you, and she will.

Wow, Jen—You’re right! It’s wrong to complain about the Mother Teresa and rape by Catholic clergy and all the other double standards of the Catholic Church. Why should I be angry—the Church represents God, who can do no wrong. They gave their will to God and had/have no free will of their own, so it’s God’s fault, not their’s. I stand corrected. I will pray to Mother Teresa to go **** herself.

“Mother Teresa is responsible for greatest number of preventable deaths by illness and poverty since WW II.”
At least she actually *earned* her Nobel Peace Prize… Unless you can back up your comment with something, say, factual (which you can’t), then you are clearly only interested in causing shock and confusion with such inflammatory and unsubstantiated remarks.  I pity those who honestly have nothing better to do then attack someone like Blessed Teresa - there must be a pain there like none other.
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Anywho, Nurse Tammy & Brandon W, thanks for your remarks - you nailed!  We are all supposed to act *in persona Christi* when we encounter those who suffer, and that is truly where God is.

Dear Jennifer…Allow me to tell you all a story.  I was in the prison ministry at the time, and was visiting a community of about 10 women behind bars.  There was one gal, in her late twenties, who looked quite distraught.  It was noisy there, so asked her if she wanted to talk one-on-one, and she said, “Yes.”  Several days later, I met with her in the prison Chaplain’s office, and it was obvious that she was very depressed and very confused.  Her name was Margaret.

After chatting for a few moments, I said, “Margaret, tell me about the good times in your life, from as far back as you can remember?”  She quickly answered, “There weren’t any.”  “No,” I said, “I mean times like your birthday, or Christmas, or Easter, or whatever?”  She said, “There weren’t any.”  I spent the next ten minutes asking her from every different perspective about the good times in her life, and her answer was always the same: “There weren’t any!”  Re-grouping, I said, “Okay, tell me about the bad times in your life.”  “Oh,” she quickly said, “That’s easy.”  “When I was five years old, my sister was sitting in mother’s lap, and my mother was giving her love, hugging and kissing her.  So I tried to get up into my mother’s lap to get love, too, but she threw me on the floor.”  Shocked, I said, “What did you do?”  She said, “I sat there and cried.”

And so I said, “Margaret, you know God.  How do you think God felt about that?”  She answered, “He didn’t like it.”  I affirmed her answer and said, “You’re absolutely right, he didn’t like it at all.”  Then I asked, “Where do you think Jesus was at the time?”  She thought, and thought, and finally said: “I don’t know.”  I answered, “He was sitting right next to you, crying!”  She thought about it for a moment, and said, “You’re right!”  At that moment, Margaret began the healing process.  The last time I saw her, she was married, had two children, and was very, very happy.

The moral of this true story is simple.  God put us here on this earth to test us by suffering to find out whether or not we love him.  He did that with his only Begotten Son; would he not do the same with us?  Suffering and love go together; they are the key to eternal life.  As you so correctly said, Jennifer, just look at the crucifix.

  On December 18,2006 I was in the hospital suffering from a stroke.  I had asked my doctor for medication for depression.  Shortly thereafter my cousin entered my room with a beautiful crucifix.  I looked upon it and smiled Nine days earlier I had started a nine day novena to Blessed Jossefa Menendez.  I wanted to give Jesus a new me for a Christmas gift.  The response a stroke.  I have learned to Love God, Jesus and the Holy Spirit, like never. before.
Looking on he crucifix I learned How much God loved us.  I also learned how not to complain bout anything.  I look at Jesus as my Hero, Idol, and MY BEST FRIEND AND MY GOD.  My life begin at 68 years of age.  i have never been happier.  There is nothing to complain about.  I offer up all my suffering to my savior to use as he see fit.
All my problems have been solved!  I learned to TRUST in the ONE who hung on the tree for me.  I am truly blest I would only trade places with a saint.

We should remember that Mother Teresa was clear that Missionaries of Charity was not operating a hospital.
Followers and volunteers are questioning the quality of service given in the care centres. They feel the Missionaries’ care centres are allergic to using modern-day therapy and technology to care for the inhabitants. Often untrained volunteers are given tasks that would normally require one to be trained in medicine and therapy. Missionaries has always kept change at bay. But in a world where it is very difficult to hide behind secrecy, the number of disillusioned followers is increasing. Missionaries doesn’t keep a tab on the financial transactions that take place. No one other than the sisters knows where the money that is donated is spent. Donations continue to pour in but people are asking for transparency on how the money is used.

http://forbesindia.com/article/on-assignment/mother-teresas-legacy-is-under-a-cloud/15932/1?id=15932&pg=1

If there is any justice, they would revoke the prize she supposedly “earned.” She treated humans worse than cockroaches. At least these days people are less than awed by religion and it’s not getting the free ride it was used to. It is my hope that, in a few hundred years, our future generations will be appalled at how religion destroys the mind as bad as meth.

Someone told Mother Teresa that she “wished Jesus would stop kissing her.” MT was even proud of that. Sick person revered by sick followers.

Cornelius—
“Looking on he crucifix I learned How much God loved us.  I also learned how not to complain bout anything.  I look at Jesus as my Hero, Idol, and MY BEST FRIEND AND MY GOD.  My life begin at 68 years of age.  i have never been happier.  There is nothing to complain about.  I offer up all my suffering to my savior to use as he see fit.”
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You poor thing! You must have suffered much throughout your life to turn to an hallucination in your “autumn years.” I am sorry that someone had to be nailed to a cross and left to die so that you can feel better off than HIM.

Caroline, I always like to check sources and background and so I checked your link and then a Facebook page that is quoted. Then I noticed how this page vilifies the Visionaries for being against Planned Parenthood. All of a sudden the word AGENDA popped into my head.

At least our agenda is clear.

We are Catholics…. don’t need to say much more than that really.

I hate the automatic spell checker - it has an agenda too! Visionaries should read Missionaries!

Caroline is clearly a troll who stalks Catholic websites so she can hurl her ignorant insults (yet we’re the ones whose minds have been destroyed).  Engaging her in a discussion is a waste of time.  She is not here to have a constructive dialogue.  Like Angela (a troll from a few posts ago;  could very well be the same person as Caroline), her goal is to seek attention, cause division and get a rise out of people.  Let’s not make her dreams come true.

Anthony—wow! The site vilifies! Like Catholic sites don’t vilify! Gee you really think you have the ONLY right view of REALITY! This site is a joke.

And “claire” has already labeled me a troll! Gosh, what do you do to kids who won’t eat their spinach? How do you deal with “uppity” kids? Are you a bully to snotty kids?
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Claire has already set up the battlefield. Her “vaccine” will “save” you from me~in the name of God! Angela must have been a real B**ch if she is a template for her trolls.
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Is there anyone who is not in shock and open to conversation here? Or was I misled by the nice Catholic lady who told me about this site, saying they have answers to my questions?

What’s your blog called Caroline - perhaps I can come over there are converse with you?

Of course that should be “and” not “are”!

Oh yeah, this is sounding a lot like Angela.  Sentence structure that makes no sense, lies, suddenly a mention of questions that need to be answered, although up until now there have been only insults rather than questions.

The bored college student with way too much time on her hands and nothing interesting to spend it on is back.

Hi, Jennifer.  I heard your show on Catholic Answers and they sure threw lots of “hard to answer in a sound byte” questions at you!  Great job on the show, and I hope the callers come back to get deeper answers at your blog or from resources you and others suggest.  One thing I thought of when the man called with the question on suffering, isa quote I came across on FB:  “Sometimes I want to ask God why He allows poverty, famine and injustice in the world when He could do something about it, but I’m afraid He might ask me the same thing.”  I know, the amount of suffering in the world is overwhelming but there are many opportunities right in front of us to help reduce that suffering.  We can’t tell God that helping others is only His job.

I suffer with Post traumatic stress from child abuse and I can truly answer that question. God is holding each of us feeling our pain, trying His best to block it from us if necessary. I never experienced joy, true joy, until I came back to the church. If I hadn’t… I think I would be dead by now, there were a few times in high school that I attempted to commit suicide, but Thank God, He saw me through even when I wanted him not to.

Caroline,  Its important to not compare apples from our culture to oranges from another. Mother Teresa didnt set out to duplicate Johns Hopkins in their capacity to give world class curative treatment. She saw poor people dying alone and maggot ridden on the street and (with a small amount of nursing training - like days) she set out to give them a place where they could die welcomed amongst humanity. Im quite certain that she did NOT give treatment that any of us with access to an urgent care canter on the corner would consider adequate, but that isnt what she set out to do. Agreed.
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Just touching on a few other points: God can do no wrong, but we as Church are made up if imperfect humans that make lots of mistakes. The Church does not claim perfection in all things, just the Popes capacity to speak on faith and morals in specific circumstances (which he really doesnt do THAT often) so the rest of the time were all dealing with our weaknesses and struggles like everyone else.  One very important point is that we DO NOT EVER lose our free will. Even God will not take that away, so surely the Church wont.
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Remember that our Church has existed for 2000 years and if you give any group that long in the midst of human struggles, you will find things to complain about. It doesnt mean the underpinings of our faith are wrong, it means that were human.  I have heard people want to hold thier Catholic friend responsible for something that happened a thousand years ago on another continent and compare it to mistakes made by a Protestant church down the street that has existed for 10 years.
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As far as child rape is concerned, you wont find anyone who will defend it & experts have come out time and again to confirm that it is NOT a Catholic problem, it is a human problem. We now have a LOWER rate of problems than other churches and schools.  A child is MUCH more likely to be abused by a teacher or family member than a Priest….so are you going to condemn families and education?
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I posted on this topic first, so if you really want to know what I think of suffering, its easy to scroll to the top. I have been a nurse in Pediatric ICU (the hardest job i ever had), Adult Hospice, Neonatal ICU and now I work in Perinatal Loss…I have cared for so many dying and sick and injured people (mostly kids and babies) that I can not remember them and yet in the midst of my challenge, I have found the strength, encouragement and teachings to deal with it all (and to do so with meaning and purpose) within the Catholic Church. I rather hope the fruitfulness of the Church holding me up is a useful witness. 

Well, you got me beat, don’t you? You’ve made up a template troll called “Angela”—what do you call the men who protest against you? You already have me painted “pro-choice” and a supporter of Planned Parenthood, before I can even tell you about myself. Now you won’t accept anything I tell you.
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You wouldn’t be writing your bull***t if you didn’t know how to use the internet, so why don’t you Google the Missionaries of Charity on YouTube and see the videos of those awful missions—that were made undercover so they nasty bits couldn’t be censored?. You just don’t want to look, why you set up false scenarios to catch Planned Parenthood clinics “in the act.”
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Jessica—Jesus let you abuser abuse you. He kept you in that hell and he keeps you from being angry at your attackers. Are you doing anything to help other abused children, or do you just tell them that Jesus loves them?
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Claire—religion only gives answers that can’t be questioned. Your attitude suggests that anger is a bad thing. Yet you are full of fury yourself. Look in the mirror sometime.
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Tammy—if the Church is made up of human beings who do evil (what you call “making mistakes,” then it should not be taken as a representative of God, who can do no wrong. You should find another institution that is accountable and takes responsibility for the actions of its members. You want the government to be accountable, and hopefully you want your hospices and hospitals to be accountable and prove they care properly for their patients. However, you give a free ride to the Church.
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That makes all of you a moral relativists.
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Anthony, you and the rest and go **** Mother Teresa in the Hell where she belongs. I’m not coming back here, cause you only know how to piss people off.

Oh, I forgot:  the hypocrisy, profanity and contradictions.  All very familiar.  It will be nice to have a break from it.

@Nurse Tammy: God Bless You A Hundred Fold! You touched on everything I was thinking in your last post abt. dying, pedophilia, etc. As to suffering. After the Original Sin, God gave us Free Will, therefore, if everyone on earth used their free-will to God’s Honor, there would not be the cruelty in the world today. As to illness, [another product of original sin]....if you read the teachings of Jesus while He was on earth, He covers everything, even by His Crucifixion, He teaches us about suffering and how to accept it. Someone on this blog mentioned how through suffering, God is always with us. I have proof of it. When my husband was dying of cancer, he accepted it….I did not, I suffered his dying and losing him, I could not accept it. [I was 57] I had no one near me but my son…all others in the family lived in other states.  When I was at my lowest, God spoke to me in His way and I actually heard, “You Are Not Alone”. Believe it or not….I am a very practical person, not prone to dramatics at all. At the time, I did feel very alone & at my lowest, with this whole burden on me, [I had never before had to handle everything connected with a death [though I had help from Hospice with the caring part] yet when God came to me, everything got better and I was able to accept & handle everything that had to be done at the end with the help of some good people in my Church. I have been a widow since 1985 and God helped me get a job at Hospice after not working for over 30 yrs and with my volunteer jobs, have gotten along real well. I now have leukemia and I shall know how to handle that also.  God has blessed me with two wonderful children their spouses & my grandchildren!  P.S. I made the Stations Of The Cross several months after my husband’s death and through each Station I could see the sufferings of what a dying person goes through, from the death sentence of an illness, to the agony of accepting, through the ups and downs of pain and depression and on through the rest.  Think about it!

I only think it’s proper that when someone talks bad about the church and our faith,we should,instead of talking bad back,try to understand where the person is coming from,and,above all,treat that person with love and respect. Miss caroline is abviously very angry about something.(else she wouldn’t sound that way)i don’t think angering her further is the way forward.

To Beatrice and Tammy, yes, they do receive aggressive care; I don’t pray for healing anymore; and I believe I’ll work on a good, long blog post with the title of my comment! 
Grace to you on this Lord’s Day.

I’ve been watching this post and was curious on how you addressed Caroline’s anger. Although she was angry when she came here, she was, in my own humble opinion, brushed off too quickly.
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I met a man who had volunteered at a missionary and when I asked about it, he said Hitchens didn’t say enough about it. He’s doing is residency in the U.S. and said it was true how they re-used needles and would wait till after their routine prayers before working with their patients. As he talked, he became more and more incensed about the place and the nuns there. I’ll probably never meet this guy again, but I don’t think he had reason to lie.
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Can you answer Caroline’s claim that the Church should be accountable and stop hiding behind Jesus to excuse themselves? I think they should be held accountable, because it is being run by humans who make mistakes that profoundly affect people’s lives.
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Please respond to this without biting my head off. I am not a troll, I just want to learn how you justify yourselves to critics. If you’re polite to me, I will do the same for you.

Beatrice, Caroline was brushed off because she has a history here.  I am convinced she is the same person who has visited Jennifer’s forums repeatedly, under various names such as “Angela” (and in a weak moment admitted to being one of many college students who post from the same computer, with the goal of “taking us down”).  She is not here for meaningful dialogue.  She is here to hurl profanity and insults.  Engaging her only encourages her. 

I totally agree that there are humans in the Church who make mistakes, and abuse their positions, and they definitely need to be held accountable.  No one here is hiding behind Jesus. 

I have read that Mother Teresa said that her nuns started off the day with prayer and adoration.  This was integral to them having the strength they needed to do a ministry that was exhausting and draining, emotionally and physically.  Despite the time they took in prayer, they still spent long days caring for the patients.  I don’t know whether they re-used needles, but as Nurse Tammy pointed out, she was giving care to people who otherwise wouldn’t have had care.  She didn’t pretend to be a doctor or a nurse.

I hope this answers some of your questions.  I’m sure that others here will be able to answer you further.  There is nothing wrong with questions.  But posting here just to stir the pot for personal entertainment (which is Angela/Caroline’s goal) is unacceptable and immature.

Claire, even if Caroline does have a history here, even if she’s the same person as Angela, even if she’s a “troll”, she’s still a human being, a child of God. She is full of anger, probably hurt. I don’t think your solution is at all loving or helpful to her or a good example of how Christians engage with people who disagree with us. We should patiently listen to people, try to meet them where they are, respectful to them even if they aren’t respectful to us. If you can’t do that maybe you should just disengage and leave the apologetics to those who can do it effectively.

Melanie, I’m sorry that you don’t feel that I’m effective at apologetics.  The only attempt at apologetics that I have made on this post is when I tried to answer Beatrice’s question based on something I had read by Mother Teresa.  If you find it ineffective, you’re welcome to answer her.  I told her myself that there are probably other people here who have more knowledge about it and can answer her further.

Angela/Caroline is not just someone who disagrees with us.  I am happy to dialogue respectfully with people who disagree.  That is not the situation with Angela/Caroline.  On previous forums, she has made insulting comments about people’s sex lives.  She told me that she would like to drink a glass of water while watching me burn (and, by the way, that was when I actually gave her the benefit of the doubt and thought she was here for a dialogue, and was sincerely addressing the points that she brought up).  As I said earlier, she is here to inflame, shock and to promote division (which she seems to be succeeding at, since you told me in a rather disrespectful and unloving way to be more respectful and loving toward her).  I do generally disengage from her, ever since she admitted that she is one of several college students who take turns posting (from the same computer) on Jennifer’s columns with the goal of “taking us down”.  However, when I come across columns where it is clear that there are some people who have not previously encountered her, I do feel the need to explain the situation (that she is not here for any type of constructive dialogue, and that responding to her insults is exactly what she wants).

Claire, I’m sorry you found my words disrespectful and unloving. I did not intend them to be anything but a respectful reminder that Christ calls us to love even those who hate us.

Apologetics is not only engaging with those who want to learn about the faith. It is especially engaging with those who are rude, hostile, who want to destroy the faith.

The thing is, having just stumbled onto this exchange with no awareness of the history between you and Caroline/Angela, I found your responses to her dismissive and rude. (Yes, even seeing how obnoxious she was being later on and how laced with profanity and hatred all of her comments were.) If I were a non-Catholic trying to learn more about Catholics, I would find the way you responded to her very off-putting. I keep remembering how Jennifer said that a key factor in her conversion was seeing the way Catholics were different in the way they interacted with people online. I can understand why you would be frustrated with someone whose only motive seems to be “taking us down”; I still think that your response is lacking.

Why not respond to her insults with love? By dismissing her as a troll and returning insult for insult you are giving her exactly what she wants. By returning hatred with love that would be the way to frustrate her designs. If what she indeed wants is only to “take us down”, then to provoke us to dismiss her is indeed what she wants. Even if is being a troll, calling her out on it is neither helpful nor setting a good example for others. If dealing with her is a problem for you, don’t respond. If others choose to engage that’s their choice and I find your attempt to warn others away from dialogue with her to be lacking in charity. And lacking in faith too. Who knows but that responding in love might someday win her over. Or if not her and he cohorts, then someone else who is watching how we comport ourselves in public.

When we think of the passion of Our Lord, why would anyone believe we should be spared suffering.  Didn’t Jesus say: If you love me take up your cross and follow me

When we think of how Jesus suffered for us, how could anyone think we should be spared suffering. Didn’t Jesus say: Take up your cross and follow me?  If those who don’t suffer realized the value of emulating the suffering of our Lord they would not be so quick to shun it. When you suffer, you can moan and groan and say why me? Or you can offer it to help the poor souls in Purgatory who so often have no one to pray for them to atone for the punishment due their sin. Can you possibly imagine what they would do for you in return when you face death?  It is not as though I were unfamiliar with pain and suffering.  I have had crippling degenerative arthritis in both knees for several years, and every waking moment has some level of pain. I always offer it for the poor souls in Purgatory who have no one to pray for them. I strongly suspect they have been helping me persevere in spite of it.  All I can say is don’t ever waste whatever suffering you have to offer.  God is never outdone in generosity.

@ Caroline

“Jessica—Jesus let you abuser abuse you. He kept you in that hell and he keeps you from being angry at your attackers. Are you doing anything to help other abused children, or do you just tell them that Jesus loves them?”

Yes, I pray for them each day and I pray for the man who molested me. I have forgiven him, it doesn’t mean that I’m not angry at him because I am and was. God has helped me to forget most of what has happened over the years, which is in fact a blessing. I could let that keep affecting me by holding on to the hatred I had toward God and toward my abuser, but I don’t. I don’t let what happened to me stop me from loving my nephews and the kids that I have taught over the years. I haven’t been lucky in finding love myself yet, but when I do and when I have children of my own I won’t let it stop me from loving and protecting them. I am not saying that child abuse is a good thing, or that it’s permissible, unlike the courts which have said that viewing child pornography isn’t a crime, I am saying that it is a lasting thing that can and will affect those that go through it for the rest of their lives. But God can and has helped me personally to overcome what has happened. I haven’t woken up screaming in three years, haven’t had a panic attack in five years, and I have done everything that I can to protect the children I come into contact with from those that prey upon them. Just because I am not out on the street putting molesters behind bars or prosecuting them in a court of law doesn’t mean that I’m not doing something to protect them. Prayer does work, even though God’s answers might not be what we want to hear. The fact is that this world is imperfect because of us, not because of Him. We have such a capacity for hurting each other and for hatred that sometimes we can’t see clearly. I’ll be praying for you, Caroline, and for the rest of our world. Please don’t think me to be sarcastic, if I could accurately portray the sincerity with which I type I would, but these words will remain cold and flat and empty in the world of online where no one can really believe what another says. Don’t judge all of us by the actions of some, I truly do care and will pray, if you wanna ask me anything particular or want to ask anything I’ll answer it if I can, though I am no true expert of my faith the way I should be. you can e-mail me at rinoa_2005_234@yahoo.com just put your name in the subject so I don’t delete it, if you don’t want to talk I understand, your welcome hasn’t been too welcoming as of yet.

Clare—I think I’ve read the same things you did about Mother Teresa, but the man I met was actually there and he was very angry about it. I don’t think he was acting just to get attention. I didn’t know how to answer him.
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I don’t know what you experienced with this “Angela,” but how can you be sure Caroline was “one of them?”
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Bob—Why is there so much white space in your comment? Just curious.
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Jessica, I don’t think I would have forgiven anyone for abusing/attacking me, but you haven’t forgotten about it or you wouldn’t need the images of a suffering divinity to convince you that your suffering was somehow forgivable. But, I don’t think Caroline will be back—it’s obvious she would just get more of the same from Clare, even if Caroline bothered to look here again. It was brave of you to try to answer her, but your response shows you are still angry with your past.
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Peace be with you.

Beatrice, it’s not something I ever could or would forget, as much as I detest what happened to me I don’t blame God for it anymore. As much as I am angry at the person’s actions, he changed who I was and God has helped me to make what was awful into something good. You seem to forget it is only after his suffering that he rose from the grave. It is only through our suffering that He can help us move beyond who we were and change us into who we are supposed to be. So yes, I am still angry, but I am getting less so every day. I suggest the book Captivating by John and Stasi Elderidge (I’m not sure how to spell their last name), it’s not Catholic but it has a great deal of truth in it about how and why women suffer in particular.

I don’t think God is to blame for suffering—I think it’s the work of people who abuse each other and justify their actions as “Gods will” or something like that.
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Of course he rose after his suffering—if he didn’t suffer he wouldn’t have been in the grave in the first place. And if he hadn’t risen, there would be no justification for the Catholic Church. It was necessary for Jesus to suffer, but I don’t see why it was necessary for you or any other children to suffer like him.
,,
What do you pray for you abuser?

Hi Beatrice,

    I can’t be 100% sure, but the writing style and her whole approach is practically identical.  Even if I’m wrong and she’s not the same person, it’s obvious that she’s trying to lie, shock and manipulate.  She clearly is not here to have a respectful debate or dialogue. 

    Getting back to Mother Teresa:  I haven’t personally met anyone who worked with her in Calcutta, but I have seen interviews with people who have, people who also would have no reason to lie.  Also, my guess is that if her organization really had elements of corruption, the media would have jumped on it.  It would be great material for selling papers, shows, etc.  And the media loves anything anti-Catholic.

Melanie, how loving do you think it is to encourage someone who tells Mother Teresa to go **** herself?  (And make no mistake, the only reason the word is not written out is that she has learned from previous experience that it would probably end up being deleted as spam).  Do you think it’s in her best interest to feed her “dialogue” so she continues to make those comments?  It certainly isn’t in any of our best interest to receive those comments, but I don’t think it’s in her best interest to make them either.  When people who have responded to her with love, telling her that they’re sorry for her hurt and anger and that they’re praying for her, the result has been similar comments.  Praying for her is a good idea.  Telling her that we’re praying for her, or showing empathy, has backfired in the past.  If you don’t think my warning others about her intent is charitable, we’ll just have to agree to disagree (just as I don’t think your first comment to me was particularly charitable).  If it were me, and I was trying to give a hostile commenter the benefit of the doubt and dialogue with her, I would appreciate someone filling me in so that I would know the history of the situation.  And, apparently Jennifer and the other moderators here feel the same way, because when they do monitor these forums, her comments have been deleted many times in the past, and they have tried to block her from posting here, which is probably why she returns under different names.

I pray that he might see the wrong he has done to me and others like me, that he might come to know God’s healing and mercy for what he has done, and for what has been done to him because I don’t know why he did what he did… and because he had moved away before I got up the courage to tell anyone what happened to me, that he wasn’t able to hurt any other child after me. Jesus taught his followers one prayer and in every version of that prayer it says, “forgive us our trespasses as we forgive those who trespass against us” I took that to mean that if I didn’t allow myself to forgive him then who am I to ask for forgiveness? I have not hurt anyone as much as he hurt me (at least I pray not, and definitely not in the same way) but in what way does my lying to someone to get out of doing something differ in the eyes of God? Both of us have sinned, the gravity does matter, yes, but both of us can receive God’s healing if we search for it. I also pray to St. Maria Goretti who forgave her would be rapist and murderer for him and for myself on occasion.

Well, I’m still glad that victims of priest abuse are coming out and getting their abusers to pay for their crimes and the Church to pay for its cover-up. If victims don’t get angry and speak out, the abusers would keep going.
—-
Clare—I tried to look for volunteers who had good experiences and found good patient care in Missionaries of Charity—but couldn’t find any. I did find these sites—which support what my acquaintance said. Do you or anyone here know how I can answer, should this come up again?
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http://holdmissionariesofcharityaccountable.blogspot.com/
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http://www.wanderingearl.com/volunteering-at-mother-teresas-home-for-the-dying/

Still, Clare—how can you be sure Caroline was Angela? There’s more than one angry atheist out there.

Well, like I said, I can’t be 100% sure, but her whole approach is incredibly similar.  The personal attacks, profanity, insults, etc, and then when she’s called on it, her tactic is to say that she was coming here with sincere questions (although up until that point she hadn’t asked any questions).  The pattern and sequence is consistent.  Especially because I’ve seen her complain about being blocked and her comments being deleted, and then she comes back under a different name.  This time she didn’t admit that she was the same person, but that’s probably because when she’s afraid of being blocked again.  Even if she isn’t the same person, which I highly doubt, her motives are the same.  Shock value.  Distract from the issue at hand.  Cause division.  This is the first time she’s succeeded in causing division.  Because apparently there are people here who prefer to paint me as the bad guy rather than the person who told me that she wanted to drink a glass of water while watching me burn, who said that Mother Teresa can go **** herself, etc.  I guess that charity toward fellow Catholics isn’t important.

Beatrice:  am I missing something here?  I don’t remember Jessica saying that she was opposed to victims speaking out about priest abuse (and priests, by the way, are not the only abusers). 

I’m sorry that I don’t have any links for you regarding Mother Teresa.  I’m sure they’re out there.  If I had any doubts about her or her charity, I would research it and get back to you.  But I don’t, and today is my birthday and since research isn’t my idea of a good celebration (I know some people enjoy it, but I don’t), I think I’ll pass.  Hopefully someone else here will be able to recommend some for you.

Beatrice:I am not exactly sure why my opening sentence was repeated, space was skipped. and it was repeated.

Clare—I’m sorry you are mistaking my meaning about victims speaking out. I did not mean to suggest that Jessica had anything against it. And I know priests aren’t the only abusers. I’m just saying in general that I’m glad victims are no longer held back by shame or fear of being disbelieved. Usually abuse was never mentioned and consequently it kept going.
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Aren’t you being just a little too defensive? I don’t want to end up like Caroline.
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I can’t just say that “Clare at the National Catholic Register forum has no doubts about Mother Teresa, so that settles it.” But you’ve answered me, you really don’t care about the Missionaries of Charity. No point in my coming back either.
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Jessica, I hope I haven’t offended you.

Beatrice, I didn’t say that you should say that my word settles it.  In fact, I didn’t tell you to say anything.  I tried to answer your question to the best of my current resources, and I am not up to researching it further for you.  That doesn’t mean that I don’t care about the Missionaries of Charity.  It means that I do not wish to invest the time to research something that I personally don’t have any doubts about.  If you don’t want to come back, that’s your choice.  Why you are implying that I’m responsible for that, I have no idea.  I am the only one here who invested any time in responding to your concern about Mother Teresa.  There’s no rule that says I have to continue to to spend time on this, in order for you to feel welcome here.

Hi Claire, You are right on the money. Some of the people here haven’t seen him/her in action. Yes, pray for Angela/Caroline/Beatrice/Stella/Juanita et al. Offer up sacrifices for him/her but don’t fall into the sticky web. Our prayers might not go to him/her, (I hope they do) but we can be certain that grace is never wasted. We are not being dismissive—peace to our angry bro.! Defending M.T. is like defending Jesus. Blessings to you Claire for doing the right thing. Who on earth (?) would detract from the beautiful self sacrifice of MT and the M. of C. ??  The answer to that is clear cut. @Nurse Tammy, what a special gift you have been given to do what you do. Thank you for your witness. @Jessica, thank you for your grace filled answers.  Your witness shows grace at work,  beautifully.  Thanks be to God.  (@Claire, Angela is not going to take this sitting down is he?  He’s sure to go all Dawkins ape, you-know-what. LOL.  I guess I just violated “the rule”.) 
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Today is a great day!  My 6th born celebrated first holy communion. He was so happy.  How beautiful. He told me a few weeks ago, that he thinks he would like to be a priest!  He offered the grace of his great day, for his godmother who has cancer.  I’m so proud of him.  He was so happy.  Please pray for him. (Thank you).  I’m praying for all of us here too. @Angela, “trollalicious” just keeps me somewhat entertained.  I need to repent of this. My husband thanks you *again* because he got to free wheel on Netflix while I wrote this. XO

Hi Anna Lisa, I haven’t seen Beatrice before, but by that last comment it was pretty obvious that she’s just another alias.  And you’re right, she’ll be back. 

Congratulations on the first communion!  If I recall, the last forum I encountered you on, you had another child who was making first confirmation?  You have had a busy spring!

Not offended, Beatrice, promise. I didn’t take it to mean that at all. I, too, am glad that less children are scared of talking about what happened to them. I also do believe that people should take more responsibility for their actions and accept the consequences once they come to realize the horror of what they have done.

Yes, “anna lisa” and Clare, I came back because you seem to have a problem. I’ve taken a look at your comments on other posts, and it seems this Angela character has really made a negative impression on you, and that you obviously suspect anyone who asks information from you. I would pray that you get over your paranoia and take Melanie’s advice.
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I guessed I was some how making you bristle, and decided you didn’t want to discuss the Missionaries of Charity with me. I was choosing to leave, but you and anna lisa have decided to label me as an “alias.” This will damage my reputation if I should want to comment on other posts here.
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I think you owe me an apology—you have no reason to blacklist me, and you are not being fair. I did not swear, I apologized to Jessica, and I was going to leave, but I can’t let you smear my reputation. You have commented on this site much longer than I have and people here respect you. If other people here won’t take me seriously because of you, then you have hurt me without cause.

@“Beatrice” lol.  “your sock puppet is showing”. Again. Who else but you, would rip on Mother Teresa’s beautiful legacy?  Who else but you would get bothered that a sexual abuse victim prayed for her abuser? You’re one in 100s of millions! ;)

Annalisa, you nailed it!  Fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me.  I was wondering why “Beatrice” kept misspelling my name, but when I finally figured out she was one of the Angelas, it made sense (she has so many names to keep track of, I can’t fault her for forgetting how to spell my name).

Claire and anna lisa—I don’t need to explain myself to you—I’m going to find out how to complain to Jennifer herself about you. I told you that I met someone who was actually a volunteer and told me about what it was like. I didn’t ask anyone to search for me, and you were defensive from the start. I may want to ask other bloggers if they have anything to say about it—Mark Shea seems to be willing to answer questions—but if you insist on “warning” everyone that I’m “angela” or whatever, no one will trust me enough to give their honest opinion.
..
I will visit Jennifer’s other site and complain about you.

Too much education is a bad thing.  Bishop O’Donoghue
A priest who is reassigned to a new parish after being treated because of a history of sexual abuse should not have his “good reputation” ruined by having his background revealed to the new parish.  Father Ghirlanda
A [child of an unmarried woman] shall not enter into the congregation of the Lord; even to his tenth generation shall he not enter into the congregation of the Lord.”” (Deuteronomy 23:2)
“When men strive together one with another, and the wife of the one draweth near for to deliver her husband out of the hand of him that smiteth him, and putteth forth her hand, and taketh him by the secrets: Then thou shalt cut off her hand, thine eye shall not pity her.” (Deuteronomy 25:11-12)
“He that is wounded in the stones, or hath his privy member cut off, shall not enter into the congregation of the Lord.”(Deuteronomy 23:1)
“Whosoever putteth away his wife, and marrieth another, committeth adultery: and whosoever marrieth her that is put away from her husband committeth adultery.”” (Luke 16:18)
“I permit no woman to teach or have authority over men; she is to keep silent.” Timothy 2:11
“If in spite of this you still do not listen to me but continue to be hostile toward me, 28 then in my anger I will be hostile toward you, and I myself will punish you for your sins seven times over. 29 You will eat the flesh of your sons and the flesh of your daughters.”(Leviticus 26:27-30)
“And if thy hand offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter into life maimed, than having two hands to go into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched.”” (Mark 9:43)
“But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.” (Matthew 5:28)
“But if she bear a maid child, then she shall be unclean two weeks, as in her separation: and she shall continue in the blood of her purifying threescore and six days.”” (Leviticus 12:5)
“But every woman that prayeth or prophesieth with her head uncovered dishonoureth her head…”” 1 Corinthians 11:5
“But if this thing be true, and the tokens of virginity be not found for the damsel: Then they shall bring out the damsel to the door of her father’s house, and the men of her city shall stone her with stones that she die: because she hath wrought folly in Israel, to play the !@#$% in her father’s house: so shalt thou put evil away from among you.”” (Deuteronomy 22: 20-21)
“For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law. And a man’s foes shall be they of his own household. He that loveth father or mother more than me is not worthy of me: and he that loveth son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me.”” (Matthew 10:35-27)
“Thou shalt not hate thy brother in thine heart: thou shalt in any wise rebuke [reason with] thy neighbour, and not suffer sin upon him. Thou shalt not avenge, nor bear any grudge against the children of thy people, but thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself: I am the Lord.” (Leviticus 19: 17-18)
“For whatsoever man he be that hath a blemish, he shall not approach: a blind man, or a lame, or he that hath a flat nose, or any thing superfluous, Or a man that is brokenfooted, or brokenhanded, Or crookbackt, or a dwarf, or that hath a blemish in his eye, or be scurvy, or scabbed, or hath his stones broken. No man that hath a blemish of the seed of Aaron the priest shall come nigh to offer the offerings of the Lord made by fire: he hath a blemish; he shall not come nigh to offer the bread of his God.”” (Leviticus 21:18-21)
“But I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also.” (Matthew 5:39)
“Master, Moses wrote unto us, If a man’s brother die, and leave his wife behind him, and leave no children, that his brother should take his wife, and raise up seed unto his brother.”” (Mark 12:19)
“Happy shall he be, that taketh and dasheth thy little ones against the stones.” (Psalm 137:9)
“And if any man will sue thee at the law, and take away thy coat, let him have thy cloak also.” (Matthew 5:40)
“For every one that curseth his father or his mother shall be surely put to death: he hath cursed his father or his mother; his blood shall be upon him.”” (Leviticus 20:9)
“I wish those who unsettle you would castrate themselves!” Galatians 5:12
Satan, not God, is all-powerful. Thessalonians 2:9
—
Life is too short to deal with people who believe this.

The Angela’s have gotten a little unhinged, lately, no?

The game activity will probably increase now that it’s summer and they have more time on their hands.

I wonder if Angela can roast marshmallows over all his misquoted ire and self righteousness.  Something tells me that if the ill gotten cash ran out he’d have to get a real job and grow up.

BTW, just FYI,on an old thread: I’ll say it again, like I said it before, I heard FIRST HAND, from someone, who spent the summer at MT’s House for the dying, that it was one of the most transcendent experiences of her life.  She is the first born of a large family, and her father owns an exclusive jewelery store in San Francisco.  She also earned scholarships to great schools—AND she’s not Catholic.  Angela needs to get over himself and get a job.

I’ve seen interviews with people who have said the same thing.

Angela will burn in hell. I, for one will enjoy watching her/them from above with Jesus and Mother Theresa.

@anna lisa & others: I don’t know if “Angela” is someone in particular or what but I do know that she/he has gotten everyone’s “goat” so to speak and is enjoying all your responses. This whole blog is getting ridiculous, some of you sound very un-Christian, and juvenile. Don’t answer people like that, just pray for them.

anna lisa, Jesus told us to pray for our enemies, to turn the other cheek, and to care for those who mistreat us. I fear that you are in danger of having the punishment you deem fit for Angela visited upon yourself from your hardness of heart. Only God can judge the intentions and the actions for what they are. I will be praying for you to find the peace and forgiveness that you are unwilling to give to someone you don’t even know.

That last comment does not sound like Anna Lisa at all. I’ve seen her on lots of forums,and she has never made that type of comment.  I think this is the beginning of a new game…

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  I do not believe.

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    Suffering.  Does anyone really understand the purpose and importance of this thing?  I am a stroke survivor and constantly in pain.  Often I see others worst than me.  This doesn’t make my pain any easier to bear.  When I look at a crucifix, I wonder how HE bore the pain, shame and humiliation.  Most of all for what purpose?  I know the answer mentally but am I physically responding?

    In time I have learned to LOVE the crucifix, JESUS, GOD, and the HOLY SPIRIT.  Thanking Jesus and Mary for the opportunity to physically demonstrate my thanksgiving in sharing in HIS pain.  It is the first time in my many years of living I have ben selected to participate on a winning team.  Now I must recruit.

  This suffering is many times grater than being selected to represent my government by being a SEAL Team member.  I can represent my religion by acting out my love for my neighbor, and repentance for sin mine and others.

Yeah, that is hilarious.  Because the person who wrote that comment is a troll just like you.  Both of you are jokes (bad ones).

http://stoytoy.ru/

http://rusfront2012.livejournal.com/10984.html

http://uraldaily.ru/proisshestviya/march/24/smert-berezovskogo-vozmezdie-gospoda-boga-dotyanulsya-proklyatyi-putin??????


http://cuamckuykot.livejournal.com/288662.html