when will people learn to proofread!?
leave their “adobe”?
duh!!!!!

This is truly wonderful.  The Holy Father is really helping us learn the depth and joy of our Catholic Faith!

Does the Profession of Faith count if it’s part of the Mass?

What if you we’re baptized Lutheran, then converted? The way I read the rebaptism was to return to the place of baptism. If I were to do that, I think it would be a sin to renew my baptismal vows. Or am I just looking at this incorrectly? Could someone explain? Thanks.

This is so, so.? I have Faith in the Mercy of God. This is what made the first Schisim in the first place. This has gone the way of Limbo.

Please, people, stop digging negativity out of Blessings!

To Proteios1:  Go to where you were received into the Catholic Church.  Say the Apostles Creed.  Receieve Communion and Reconcilliation as prescribed. Done!

To Nick:  Would it hurt to say it twenty times extra?  Why be minimalist when being given such a bounty?

Dr. Timothy Hoffman:  Everlasting life is not so-so.  The corruption of politically appointed bishops after the good ones died in the plague does not alter the teachings of the Holy Catholic Church.  Its 2012.  Year of Faith.  Have some!

Fr. Bobby:  My, my.  A thousand words of hope ruined for you by a typo.  Very sad indeed.

To God be the Glory!

Thank you Holy Father for following in the footsteps of our generous and compassionate Savior, who knows our weakness and need and supplies us abundantly!

Dennis you are not the Pope. I do have faith in the Redemption of Chirst. I do not need anything else but, the Blood of Christ. Of that I have total Faith.

I’m confused.  Does someone need to do all of the prescriptions to get the plenary indulgence?  Or only one?  Usually things like this are written with an “and” or “or” to specify, but this does not seem to be.

Matthew, the document says “each time” repeatedly throughout e.g.“Each time they visit, in the course of a pilgrimage, a papal basilica, a Christian catacomb, a cathedral church or a holy site”

Thank you, Holy Father, for the indulgence.

The attempt to celebrate the 50th anniversary of that disastrous council will indeed be a struggle for Rome.

Is there one thing, ONE, that came out of that council that can be specifically pointed to as a success?  There are myriad rotten fruits from it.  I won’t list them because we all know what they are because we have to live it.

I love it !  Jesus is Lord ! - lord of the law of karma,  “where sin abounds, grace super abounds”  this is what the world hates most about the Church - it’s authority.  and that is why the priestly child sex abuse scandal is so harmful, not only to the victims themselves, but to the whole Church, it destroys the authority of the Church.  But the Year of Faith can help restore clarity to the True Faith, and separate the wheat from the chaff, all the homosexual priests that have no business wearing the collar or entering a seminary, and the lesbian nuns who will not defer to their shepherds.

I need all the help available, just glad to get extra graces.  It’s always good to spend time with extra meditation - and get the true spirit of Vat II.  Love the renewal of the Baptismal Promises, I hope that the Indulgence is well used, and brings many blessings for us all.

@Mortimerzilch
“all the homosexual priests that have no business wearing the collar”
Homosexual are NOT pedoiphiles. Also any human can be holy. It is the question of being celibate no matter your sexual orientation.

Dr. Tim Hoffman: the blood of Christ is dispensed through the Church Christ instituted upon Peter, his successors and his bishops. Full authority has been given to them “whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven”. Faith and trust in Christ’s words to his priesthood “he who hears you hears me” is what is important. The blood on the cross benefits only those with faith. Indulgences are part of Christ’s gift to His Church.

to Fr. Bobby

Thanks for pointing out the typo error.  If you read the article again, you might find they’ve already corrected it.
My only question is. why use sarcasm to correct an error?  A kind and loving approach would have achieved the same result.

I too would like to obtain the plenary indulgence.  I plan to ask my parish priest exaclty what to do.
As for those who where baptisted in another faith they should go to the fount of the church where they were received into the faith of the Holy Catholic Church.

Whoa!  Free passes for the Salvation Bus.  How could anyone pass this up?  And I wasted all that money paying for masses to keep me out of Purgatory and now they are handing out free passes.  If they were to charge for these indulgences they could build some more museums in Rome.  If you have no critical thinking and you do not read I can tell you anything.  I have to believe that Jesus is crying over this nonsense.

Richard of the Desert.
Paying for masses to keep you out of purgatory???  NUTS!!!!!!
You don’t sound like a Catholic!!!
You sound like a Catholic hating ignorant bigot!!!

Dear Kathleen, I have been a Catholic for the past 53 years and have missed Sunday mass twice during that period.  I do not consider myself a Catholic hating ignorant bigot, but was merely reflecting on how many of my friends in their 70’s and 80’s practice their Catholicism in our diocese.  They are living in absolute fear, yet they are all very good people.  For the last 10 years I have been practicing contemplative mysticism much as the early Desert Mothers and Fathers, before the Edit of Milan caused a major shift in the theology of the early Church.  As Jesus said for us to do, I love God, I love the God in others, and I share the bread and cup in remembrance.  Nearly all my prayer is in silence listening to the Father in my inner room as Jesus asked us to do and not babbling as the pagans, living in the Kingdom that he opened up for us.  I await the transition of death to whatever to something I have no conception of nor do I fear it.  There is nothing in the modern church that adds more to my joy than I have found in Jesus and the Father God.  Love, trust, surrender, and have a great life.
Richard

mortimerzilch said, “Jesus is Lord ! - lord of the law of karma”

Heretical, blasphemous nonsense.  “Karma” is a myth invented by heathens for heathens.

Richard.  You are a protestant.

The amount of hate and the lack of love in this forum is astounding!

Jason I knew that.  But thank you for your comment. If he is a Catholic I
am Cleopatra, Queen of the Nile. LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!

“Richard of the Desert” is a spring of fresh water and a cool breeze to this blog.  Thank you!  Thank you!

Signed: A Bible-literate, Mass-going, practicing Roman Catholic convert.
Richard, there are at least 4 other people I know, just like you.  Well done, good and faithful servant.  Spread the Good News!

I just have to comment on Richard; He sounds like he’s better then thou and I’ve noticed all his,  “I,s” in his sentences. He also sounds like he’s trying to put Kathleen down by praising himself.  Richard does not come across as “humble” but sounds more like a Pharisee that Christ despised when He walked the earth.  Richard; Be meek and humble of heart and do not put your fellow brethren down.

Once more the amount of judgement here is astounding. You are all in for a surprise! God help and bless you all. Judge not and be not judged!

@Mark —as written to Dr. Tim Hoffman:  [“the blood of Christ is dispensed through the Church Christ instituted”].  Where does Peter say that?  Where in ACTS do the apostles say that?  Where in Paul’s letters does he say that?  Mark, the blood of Christ is not dispensed —but applied to all sinners who repent based upon Calvary.  The Magisterium has no authority over whom *Christ decides* to apply His own blood.  As a result, Vatican announcements concerning granting indulgences is invented theology.

The body and blood of Christ as received in the holy sacrifice of the mass and a sincere desire for communion with the Father is all you need.

Indulgences are medieval nonsense. As if the Kingdom of Heaven is run like a bureaucracy! Make sure you keep your prayer receipt from the shrine you visited. Sorry all meditations are final! Cash only! The memory of the millions of European peasants misled by pardoners and dishonest clerics deserve better than to see such a thoroughly disreptuable tactic used on the sincere.

Indulgences offer perverse incentives that act against sincere repentance. They belong on the ash heap of Catholic history the divine right of kings, the wandering Jew,  and the heliocentric model of the solar system.

Fr. Bobby do you have dislexia?  It’s spelled “abode” not “adobe.”

Ted, you are entitled to your opinion.  However you are wrong.  Indulgences are acceptable even today.  Grow up.

Tim;  No one was judging except when Richard who calls himself a Catholic, decided to bash the blogger and it took off from there.  I’ve noticed that there’s always either a Protestant or a falling away Catholic who starts spewing hatred towards the Catholic bloggers.  For some reason, instead of making their point, they come out lashing out in hatred? To casting crowns: You cannot take the bible literally nor do you have the authority to interpret it.  The Catholic church has the authority to interpret the bible and that authority comes from Jesus Christ to His Catholic church and given to St. Peter, the first Pope.  The Early church Fathers taught Catholicism.  St. Clement was ordained by St. Peter and was the third successor to St. Peter as bishop of Rome (after Linus, and Anencletus, sometimes called Cletus).  In about 80 AD, the Church at Corinth deposed its lawful leaders.  The fourth bishop of Rome, Pope Clement 1, was clled to settle the matter even though John the Apostle was still alive and much closer to Corinth (in Ephesus). Notice how forcefully Pope Clement writes to the Church at Corinth:
You, therefore, who laid the foundation of the rebellion, submit to the presbyters and be chastened to repentance, bending your knees in a spirit of “Humility.”  If anyone disobey the things which have been said by Him through us, let them know that they will involve themselves in transgression and in no small danger.  In the same letter, St. Clement also describes the Mass as a sacrifice:  Our sin will not be small if we eject from the episcopate those who blamelessly and holily have offered its Sacrifices.  The deposit of faith was completed by the Apostles and is safeguarded and transmitted by the Holy Catholic church. Remember, St. Ireanaeus was taught by St. Polycard (a disiple of St. John the Apostle) and is considered the greatest theologian in the immediate post-Apostolic period.  “After Jesus Christ, there is no need of further search; nor, after the Gospel, is there any further inquiry.  Inasmuch as we believe, we desire nothing further to believe.  For beyond what we already have, we believe there is nothing further that we ought to believe.”  No Church Father ever taught that new doctrines or inspired Revelations from God were possible after the death of the last Apostle. The Catholic church will always be hated because it has the “fullness of the Truth. There are over 30,000 so called Christian denominations out there because they can never totally agree on Scripture and so someone starts another church.“The Catholic church was instituted by Christ Himself and the bible was written by Catholic monks several hundred yrs. later and inspired by the Holy Spirit.”  Thank God for St. Peters successors!

Espe, People are real nasty to each other here. Where we should all feel at home.

Get out of hell free cards.I guess if you bow befor graven images you will believe anything that comes out of Rome.

Espe writes that the bible was written by catholic monks. I didnt know Paul was a catholic monk. And Moses, he kept his monkhood well concealed.
By the way, i take the bible literally. Do not bow to graven images means do not bow to graven images. Some interpret it to mean…bow to as many graven images as you local temple can provide.

I’m not sure I still understand. So, I only have to perform the regular requirements of a plenary indulgence to receive it?(As in, Holy Communion, Confession, and prayers for the Holy Father)? Or do I have to consider the other prescriptions listed? If I don’t have to consider those prescriptions, what are they for?

Just buy your indulgences at your local Roman Temple, then you dont have to worry about going here and there and doing this and that.

Wayne, we don’t buy indulgences. That was an abuse that was corrected by the proper Apostolic bishops years ago, well after your Deformer Martin Luther tried to divorce Christ’s Bride from Christ.

Regarding graven images, I would suggest you read Exodus 25 as well as the vision of the Temple in Ezekiel. Both show statues incorporated in the holy objects of the Lord (the Ark and the Temple). Otherwise, please keep your insults and your unbiblical teachings off of this comment box, please.

Unbiblical? Do not bow thyself to graven images? Brother Chris, god put images of heavenly things in His Temple. He does what HE wants. But HE told US not to make unto us graven images nor to bow to them. The second commandment still stands, no matter how you may wish it into the cornfield.

Wayne, God didn’t put those things in there themselves. If you’ve read the examples I gave you, God commanded MEN to BUILD those statues. To BUILD the cherubim upon the Ark. He has commanded US to do them, for they are a part of the worship of God. However, treating those items as worthy of worship themselves is what is condemned by the Scriptures. You are right, the second commandment still stands, as do the rest of the commandments. But they must be understood in their proper manner, and not interpreted by Iconoclasts (who are heretics). So yes, you are passing off unbiblical teaching. And furthermore, this place isn’t where you debate such matters. Post a thread on Catholic Answers Forums, and I’ll meet you there and debate this with you.

Take ye therfore good heed vnto your selues, (for ye saw no maner of similitude on the day that the Lord spake vnto you in Horeb, out of the midst of the fire)Lest ye corrupt your selues, and make you a graven image, the similitude of any figure, the likenes of male, or female,
Deut chp 14…...Brother Chris, is this unbiblical too?

Again, Wayne, as I’ve mentioned, it’s not the Scripture that is unbiblical. It’s your man-made interpretation of them that is unbiblical. It ignores the rest of the Word of God.

But again, this isn’t the place for debate. Meet me at Catholic Answers Forums and I’ll debate this with you.

Catholic answers. Ill try, but i dont know if they want to rehash that.

Brother Chris, im kimberly87 in catholic answers. I dont know how to start a thread.If you start it, tell me how to get there. Thanks friend

It’s under the title “Statues: Biblical or unbiblical?”

To my fellow brother/sister’s in Christ;  We Catholics will never convince anyone like Wayne or Chris the Truth which is founded in the Catholic church.  Protestants like to blog on NCR just to spew their hatred of the Catholic church.  The Catholic church will always be hated until the end of time because it contains the fullness of the Truth which is founded by Christ Himself.  Most Protestants especially the so called born again and evangelicals preach hatred of the Catholic church.  How do I know? I was a Protestant for 28yrs. until I found the Truth in the one holy, catholic and apostolic church.  I was taught that the Catholic church is the “Great Satan,” that we worship Mary and the saints, and I could go on and on.  Chris and Wayne are like Saul clones before he got knocked off his high horse (literally)for persecuting the early christians but God had different plans for him! So, we need to pray for these people for they are ignorant of the Truth.  There are so many Protestants that have found the Truth in the Catholic church like Dr. Scott Hahn, an ex-Methodist, who is now a Catholic bibical scholar and also a professor at Franciscan Univ. of Steubenville and written many books on the Catholic faith, Steve Ray an ex-Baptist who’s written books and gives holyland tours and talks about his conversion, Thomas Howard, who’s book, “Lead,Kindly Light,” is his conversion story, Sir Joseph Pope and his conversion story, “Why I became a Catholic.”  These are just a handful that come to mind. Like I said previously, there are over 30,000 protestant denominations because if they don’t like a word or something they don’t agree with, they will change it and start their own church. Christ stated that we are not to add nor “take away” His word.  I finally came home and joyous that I now belong to the flock that has one shepherd.

Good for you brother espe. Make sure you get those indulgenses or god wont forgive you.

Brother Chris, i cant find it. Maybe send me a link. Thanks

Wayne why don’t you go play in the traffic. You make no sense but hostility.

Wayne, you keep blogging on NCR and someday you will become a Catholic and get knocked off your high and mighty horse. I can see that you not only are ignorant of the True faith, but are not a learned person.  I also happen to be a female, sister Wayne…

Friends, we shouldn’t say those negative things.
However, could someone please answer my question? Do I do one of the actions prescribed with the usual conditions? Or do I just do the conditions?

@espe:  [“The Catholic church has the authority to interpret the bible and that authority comes from Jesus Christ to His Catholic church and given to St. Peter, the first Pope.”]  Then everyone should close their Bibles.  The idea the Holy Spirit ONLY reveals Himself to a select few men in the Vatican is totally nonsense.

@espe:  [“The Early church Fathers taught Catholicism.”]  No, they taught the Gospel —of Jesus Christ.

You have totally missed the point and therefore, it’s useless attempting to say anything to you since you are a Protestant so my last statement to you is this: HOW OLD IS YOUR CHURCH?
IF YOU ARE a Lutheran, your religion was founded by Martin Luther, an ex-monk of the Catholic Church in the yr. 1517
IF YOU belong to the Church of England, your religion was founded by King Henry V111 in the yr. 1534 because the Pope would not grant him a divorce w/the right to re-marry.
IF YOU ARE a Presbyterian, your religion was founded by John Knox in Scotland in the yr. 1560.
IF YOU ARE a Protestant Episcopalian, your religion was an offshoote of the Church of England founded by Samuel Seabury in the American colonies in the 17th century.
IF YOU ARE a Congregationalist, your religion was originated by Robert Brown in Holland in 1582.
IF YOU ARE a Methodist, your religion was launched by John & Charles Wesley in England in 1744.
IF YOU ARE a Unitarian, Theophilus Lindley founded your church in London in 1774.
IF YOU ARE a Mormon (Latter Day Saints), Joseph Smith started your religion in Palmyra, N.Y. in 1829.
IF YOU ARE a Baptist, you owe the tenets of your religion to John Smyth, who launched in in Amsterdam in 1605.
IF YOU ARE of the Dutch Reformed church, you recognize Michaelis Jones as founder, because he originated your religion in N.Y. in 1628.
IF YOU worship w/the Salvation Army, your sect began w/William Booth in London in 1865.
IF YOU ARE a Christian Scientist, you look to 1879 as the yr. in which your religion was born & to Mrs. Mary Baker Eddy as its founder.
IF YOU belong to one of the religious organiations known as “Church of the Nazarene,” Pentecostal Gospel, Holiness Church, Pilgrim Holiness, Jehovah’s Witnesses, your religion is one of the hundreds of new sects founded by men within the past fifty yrs.
IF YOU ARE Roman Catholic, you know that your religion was founded in the yr. 33 by Jesus Christ the Son of God, and it’s still the same Church.

@espe:  And if you are Roman Catholic, you should know the last name of Jesus is not Christ.  He is Jesus -“the Christ.”  Furthermore, “religion” is man made.  Christianity is not a religion—it is a relationship—with Jesus (the Christ).

@espe:  Better put away your Bible since you are not allowed to know anything except what they want you to know.  That’s religion, not Christianity.

“Then everybody should just close their Bibles.”

Casting Crowns, that’s nonsense.  Catholics are encouraged to not just read Holy Scripture, but to meditate upon it, ponder it, and pray with it so as to better understand the Word of God, and so that it does not fall upon rocky ground.  Catholics read Scripture always in light of Christ, and for the correct interpretation of Scripture, we must be in Communion with His Body, the Church.  That, by the way is what Catholic theology understands by “Church”:  Communion with Christ, through Him, with Him, and in Him.  Jesus is the Word Made Flesh, which is why we don’t just restrict the Word of God to Holy Scripture (that and the Church understood as Communion should remind us why the Magisterium and Sacred Tradition matter).  That Word Made Flesh is made available to us through Holy Communion via the Mass, and it works in us to conform us to Christ when we receive it worthily.

So yeah, Casting Crowns:  P.S. and FYI, we Catholics really do have a personal relationship with Jesus Christ (provided, once again, we receive Him worthily).  At Holy Mass, we pray through Jesus, with Jesus, and in Jesus.  The Word Made Flesh worthily received in Holy Communion means that we live in Him, and He lives in us.  Our religion can’t be separated from that relationship with Christ, because it is prayer:  what we pray is what we believe, and we believe what we pray.  The Holy Mass, the public prayer of the Catholic Church, the Body of Christ, is the prayer of Jesus Christ at the right hand of the Father.  Our religion is what makes Christ clearly visible to us, so that we know that He also seeks us and wants us to be with Him.  We are all in need of Jesus, and the Church gives us these things not to confine us or “cramp our style,” but so we can all see and have Jesus.

@WSquared:  [“so that we know that He also seeks us”]  How do you know this?

@WSquared:  [“Catholics read Scripture always in light of Christ, and for the correct interpretation of Scripture.”]  But you not allowed to have your own interpretation.  How do you know the homilies at Mass are the correct interpretation?

The Church existed before the first written epistles and gospels.  The Church chose which would be included in the New Testament.  The Bible, ta biblia in Greek, was assembled using the Septiguint and these new testament writings of the church fathers.  The Church has vigilantly brought these scriptures forward through the centries.  But first came the Church out of which came the Bible.

@Dennis:  The gospel was preached B 4 any formalized church.

Long live Pope Benedict XVI.  Fearlessly acting despite his detractors.  “...what you hold bound on earth shall be held bound in Heaven, what you hold loosed on earth shall be held loosed in Heaven…”  Certainly these words are not missing from some of your Bibles, are they?  “Simon, thou art Rock…”  and from that point forward, Jesus called him Rock instead of Simon.  That is worth rereading as well.

@Dee…The original article included the typo “adobe”, which was quickly changed to “abode” following the mocking post of Fr. Bobby. That is why the article correctly states “abode” now, although Fr. Bobby’s comment remains.  Did you read any posts after the first and before you posted?  It was already addressed.

” Fr. Bobby do you have dislexia?  It’s spelled “abode” not “adobe.”
Some people really have learning disabilities, Dee, so I suggest that if you decide to make fun of one - how ‘bout spelling it correctly?  Dyslexia. 

@Dr. Hoffman…..After pointing out the nastiness that is found in these posts, you state:

“Wayne why don’t you go play in the traffic. You make no sense but hostility.”

I enjoy your wit, but that may be a bit violent - could we suggest that brother Wayne get one of the free passes to the Salvation Bus mentioned by Richard? I believe the bus travels through the desert.

Wow, what a lively discussion. I would like to address Proteios1. I see that Dennis did somewhat address your issue, which is: Aren’t we supposed to have only one Baptism? Right 100 percent, there is only one Baptism, but the pope is asking us to renew our baptismal promises. This is done in St. Louis Marie de Montfort’s Consecration to Jesus through Mary, also the Eucharistic Apostles of the Divine Mercy renew their baptismal promises once a year.  Other groups probably do so as well. We—the whole Church—- renew our baptismal promises at Easter in the Liturgy. This is not re-Baptism, but an opportunity to grow in your understanding of your own Baptism. Many of us were baptized as children and didn’t make the election as an adult so these pious practices are often preceded by a spiritual preparation —de Montfort gave us a 33 day preparation of readings, prayers and sacrifices.
Now to those who don’t believe in indulgences. I’m sorry but Jesus Christ paid the price of your ticket to heaven, and no one should have to spend one second in Purgatory. All you have to do is receive what He has already given us. And the Church has the authority to give us these generous gifts, plenary indulgences. St. Francis of Assisi got a pope to agree to what amounts to a Divine Mercy Sunday (remission of all punishment due to sin) in a church in Italy. You would make a pilgrimage there under the usual conditions once a year on a certain date. St. Francis was so intent on everyone going to heaven that he even yearned to drag Satan from hell. But my dear people if you wish to spend time in Purgatory, be my guest. I always feel I suffer enough in this life, why go through the pain of death only to suffer more. That said, I want to remind you all that Pope John Paul II said it is a heroic act of charity to give your plenary indulgence to a poor soul in purgatory. God will not be outdone in generosity.
Can anyone help me understand the conditions of this indulgence though?
If I went to any baptistry in any Catholic Church, and recited the de Montfort consecration and renewal of my baptismal promises plus the usual conditions (Mass confession, prayers for the pope) would that qualify? How many times can we receive this plenary indulgence during the year of Faith? Once? Multiple times? The Church I was baptized in is in Los Angeles and I live in Colorado. So it would be difficult to fulfill the indulgence by going to that baptistry.
It is a real thing giving up the indulgence for someone else. Many years ago, I got two plenary indulgences in one weekend because of certain conditions of a retreat. I gave them both to the Blessed Mother. The Friday before, a young black woman showed up on our door step begging for food (we were in the center of an apartment complex not on the street) so this was an unusual circumstance. We, of course, gave her sandwiches and what we had, went to the retreat, got the indulgences for whoever Mary picked. (You can only give them to the dead not the living) And then we read in the paper on Monday that the same young black woman who came to our door was murdered that weekend on the railroad tracks south of our house. We saw her picture. She was pregnant. Two people were killed, mother and baby, two indulgences given to Mary.  I really feel Our Lady was letting me know my sacrifice went to that dear woman. And I certainly didn’t need those plenary indulgences! I’m still alive and Divine Mercy Sunday (second Sunday of Easter) is always just around the corner. God bless you all. Susan Fox http://christsfaithfulwitness.blogspot.com

To Casting “clown.”  FYI:  I in fact, belong to two Catholic bible study groups and we Catholic’s do have bibles in our homes (since after all it’s the Catholic Monks who compiled the bible)and there are thousands of Catholic churches that have bible classes. You cannot separate Christ’s Catholic church from the Bible nor can you just have the “bible” as you Protestants believe.
Not only do you have poor sentence structure and can’t spell, but you are also a very ignorant and narrow minded person and I think that if you can’t be civil, you should stop blogging since you make “no sense at all So I suggest that you get on your own “Protest ant”  website.

@espe:  Your arguments are specious.  No one has contested Catholic monks compiled the Bible as we know it.  No one has suggested separating the church from the Bible.  A David Axelrod spin strategy will not work.  Your litany of “IF YOU ARE’s”—only fuel your own arrogance, conceit and elitism that for someone to know Christ the road travels through espe.  As for civility, if you are an example of Catholic charity, no thanks.  You remind me of the man in the Temple thanking God you are not like the rest us.

Good thing the pope granted the plenary indulgence.  From the looks of this comment thread, we’re going to need all the help we can get.

Hi jjk - couldn’t agree more, lets hope and pray this Year of Faith, brings in a new wave of Holiness and Loving Kindness into our Chruch.

Is sister Espe backpedaling? She first wrote that the catholic church wrote the bible.Casting Crowns, it does take a special person to believe that only a few guys in that snakepit Vatican are the only ones god deals with. I was unsaved once upon a time.i believed all sorts of stuff. We cant condemn these people for being unsaved. We are all born unsaved.

Say brother Hoffman, if you dont have time to do all the things to get this new indulgence, may i suggest buying one of these, it works just as good;

The following is a partial list of the many pious purposes of the Medal of St. Benedict.

  It wards off from both the soul and the body all dangers arising from the devil.
  The Medal is powerful in obtaining for sinners the grace of conversion.
  It obtains protection and aid for persons tormented by the evil spirit, and in temptations against holy purity.
  It procures assistance in the hour of death.
  It has often proved an efficacious remedy for bodily sufferings, and a means of protection against contagious diseases.
  Expectant mothers have obtained special assistance for a safe delivery.
  In time of storms, tempests and other dangers on land and sea it has been found to be a protection.
  Even domestic animals have been visibly aided by it when infected with disease

Hurry while supplys last Hoffman

@Wayne:  True, no man is born to eternal life with Christ.  All men are all unsaved apart from the blood of Christ.  Catholicism, however, does not teach eternal security.  You cannot be saved *and know it* from the Catholic perspective.

Secondly, this promise means that at the hour of death, if we are wearing the Brown Scapular, our Blessed Mother will intercede with God to obtain the graces we need to remain in the state of grace in God’s friendship so that we can save our souls. Or, if we have the misfortune of being in the state of sin, she will intercede for us that we might receive the Holy Ghost and sanctifying grace back into our soul before we die. Perhaps she will obtain for us the grace to make a perfect act of contrition, or she may obtain from God’s Providence an arrangement such that a priest will come to hear our confession and perhaps even administer the sacrament of Extreme Unction before we die.
Aye, try this one if benidicts medal dont work. I know, get both of them. Cover all the bases.

uhm…you all need to learn patience and humility; go look up the official Church teaching on indulgences. They aren’t sold anymore. One bog old mistake is over. Yes, Espe, we get our truth and application/interpretation of scripture through the Tradition of aposotolic teachers and succession, so we trust them and not our stupid selves for the correct interpretation, thus avoiding having 6 billion Christian churches-1 for each person! Moses wasn’t a monk, but we’re talking about that single volume book some Protestants like to regard as God Himself instead of His inspired word. God goes beyond the page. Don’t treat the Bible as an idol. Let His authorized teachers guide your understanding of it. Indulgences are received today by actions freely done to open oneself to graces already waiting to be poured out upon us by the mercy and salvation of Christ.

Say brother John, the catholic church doesnt sell indulgenses anymore? Why did they stop?

@JOhn:  Who validates interpretation by Cardinal Bernard Law or Archbishop Finn to ensure their teaching matches Cardinal Mahoney of Los Angeles?

Brother Casting, thats the problem with the CC. They interpret scripture instead of believing what it says. Go into any Roman Temple and you will find the devotees on their knees befor graven images while the priest smiles and waves them on. If they believed scripture, you wouldnt find this practice in their church. Recently, ive been given all the wonderful reasons why its the best thing in the world to bow to graven images.

First, I often hear fellow Catholics say, “Protestants WORSHIP the Bible. They make an IDOL out of the Bible.”  So I ask: If the Bible is the inspired word of God, then why not worship the Bible, and make an idol out of it?  It’s better than disregarding it, in favor of other things, right?

Secondly, Espe wrote: “Protestants like to blog on NCR just to spew their hatred of the Catholic church.  The Catholic church will always be hated until the end of time because it contains the fullness of the Truth which is founded by Christ Himself.  Most Protestants, especially the so called born again and evangelicals, preach hatred of the Catholic church.  How do I know? I was a Protestant for 28yrs.”

Espe-not every non-Catholic Christian comes from your type of background. Further, I’ve noticed that when anyone hears something that appears to DISAGREE or QUESTION a long held belief, it’s labeled as “hatred”.  For instance, I am accused of “hating” those people that want same sex marriage, just because I openly speak about protecting traditional marriage in my area.  If a Protestant is a Bible-believer, he/she will not “hate” anyone.  They may question or debate an issue - but they don’t hate.  It’s more likely that their MOTIVES are pure.

Lastly, Susan Fox wrote, “And the Church has the authority to give us these generous gifts, plenary indulgences. St. Francis of Assisi got a pope to agree to what amounts to a Divine Mercy Sunday (remission of all punishment due to sin) in a church in Italy. You would make a pilgrimage there under the usual conditions once a year on a certain date.”

To the above, I would say that “Divine Mercy Day” was at Calvary, when the spotless and holy Lamb of God gave His life on the Cross for us, believers, His precious Blood shed on our behalf, allowing us to have fellowship with His Father, and to be the Temples of the Holy Spirit, who will never leave us or forsake us.

When we see God for Who He is, and we see ourselves (sorry sinners, that are forgiven through His grace) we want to please Him, and we become Sanctified, after having been Justified, and upon our deaths, we become Glorified, as was Jesus, the first-born of the dead, and our Brother, our King, and the reason why we sinners are “adopted” into Heavenly Royalty, and given Eternal Life - at no cost, it only costs us OUR lives, that were BOUGHT with a price, by Him, 2000 years ago, outside of Jerusalem.
The Good News!

Terah you said: “To the above, I would say that “Divine Mercy Day” was at Calvary”
This is exactly what I said in my comment when I said, “I’m sorry but Jesus Christ paid the price of your ticket to heaven, and no one should have to spend one second in Purgatory. All you have to do is receive what He has already given us.” The Church teaches that even a serial killer can go straight to heaven with perfect contrition. Look at the Good Thief on the Cross: “This day you will be with me in Heaven.” To get a plenary indulgence you have to be free of any attachment to sin, pretty much the same thing. But a plenary indulgence is just you turning to God without any attachment to sin, and receiving what He already gave us at Calvary. To get His Mercy, you have to receive it. And while it’s true serial killers have gone straight to heaven, it is not a path I want to follow because at the last minute I might not have perfect contrition! So I practice contrition with regular confession, trying to deepen my contrition each time (path of the Saints, read St. Faustina’s diary), and I receive the Eucharist frequently as well as the Sacrament of the Sick because I am sick. The plenary indulgences I offer for the dead. They need it more than me. Why should they get a free ticket to heaven from my efforts? It’s all part of that great doctrine of the Communion of Saints. Why should my brother in Christ languish in Purgatory when I can do something to help him? All I’m doing is tapping into the graces of Calvary. No Jesus, no indulgence. If Christ the head had not died for us, the Church could not dispense any plenary indulgences. Remember Jesus gave Peter the keys to the kingdom of heaven so whatsoever he binds on earth will be bound in heaven. This power applies to binding and loosing of sin and the consequences of sin. So that it is well within the purview of the Church to dispense graces from Calvary under certain conditions. God bless you. Susan Fox http://christsfaithfulwitness.blogspot.com

  Plenary indulgence. Hurry, get them while supply lasts.

Hello there.  To wayne and/or casting crowns, If you take the Bible literally then you should read John chapter 6 where you find Jesus teaching about eating His flesh and drinking His blood.  I have always wondered why protestants claim to take the Bible literally except that chapter.  This of course used to include me when I was a protestant.  In fact part of what led me to convert was a protestant pastor teaching that we should take the Word of God at face value and follow it exactly as it says.  Also, “graven images”,  what about the serpent on a stick in the desert?  If you were bit by a poisonous snake all you had to do was look at the serpent on a stick and you would be healed.  How does that fit into the no graven image and no worship of graven images and only God heals line of thought.  As others have stated, this isn’t the place for this type of discussion.  I love and pray for all my brothers and sisters in Christ, protestants and Catholics.
God bless all of you

@Wayne: So if we are not to worship graven images, then for God to come to Earth as Jesus the Christ, is he not a physical image that is worshipped? Is he not something seen and fashioned, that the disciples see and bow before? Nevermind the graven images God orders made for the Israelites, which has already been addressed. You should read St. John Damascene on this subject and argue with him accordingly.
The issue at stake is not a matter of “what you literally bow before” but rather where or to whom your worship goes. If we can worship Jesus the Christ as Lord of all, he who was flesh among us, then we can stand before his image and still worship Him, regardless of the image. That the image we see re-presents Him to us for our benefit, is the same reason Protestants (and Catholics) read the Scriptures. I own pictures of my parents, do I suddenly now worship them when I take a moment to bow my head in solemness towards them and pray for them as I would any other living flesh and blood human being?
This is not a matter of simply reading words, but understanding the context of Scripture. Clearly you either fail to understand it, or choose not to. Perhaps you should re-read St. Augustine’s guide on how one should interpret Scripture.

Brother Breidenc, i never said anyone worshiped the graven images. Thats your guilty conscience. i just said people bow to them. You added the word worship.Anyway, how on earth can you equate someone bowing to Jesus in the flesh to bowing to a cement statue?Religion blinds people. Think for once in your life.Is a human a graven image? A graven image is something made by human hands. And to the other idolater who thinks the bronze serpent negates the second commandment; god had Hezekiah get rid of it because people were venerating it….2Kings 18;4. I bet your chief idolater in the robe and fish hat at your local Roman Temple never told you that.

Eating his flesh and drinking his blood means believing on him, for he is the bread of life, the living water. Some idolaters think that means eating his body, which you cant because you cant get your hands on his body. He is in heaven. You actually believe the man in the costume and fish hat can hocus pocus up Jesus body. i doubt seriously if god obeys someone who bows befor graven images and teaches others to do the same.“Come out of her lest ye partake in her sins”

One thing I knew is that there is alot of ignorance concerning Indulgences. Today there are even priests who don’t know the Doctrine on Indulgences. Thats right! Doctrine. It is Church teaching. There are people who deny this Doctrine, yet run to get the Indulgence granted by Jesus on the Feast of the Mercy of God on the Sunday after Easter. By not trying to obtain Indulgences for ourselves and the Souls in Purgatory, we lose a great deal. What a waste, to lose! such treasures from God through his Church. We could mitigate the punishments due to our sins and the sins of the deceased, the deceased in turn will pray for us.

wayne, I do not believe it is appropriate for non-catholics to come on Catholic sites and preach their blasphemies. If you reject scripture on eating the Flesh and drinking the Blood of Christ, then remember Christ’s personal words to you, “You have no life in you”.

My error was to read these comments and reply to them.  I will refrain.  On nearly any internet site, you have direpectful people anonomously posting things they would never say to their friends.  I will not read another comment nor waste any more time posting.  There are much more fulfilling and uplifting things to do.  I invite all of you to leave this behind.

Dennis, Your error is in giving up defending the Faith. I read your comments and I thought they were great. There are so many living in ignorance of the Catholic Faith. Catholics like you need to continue defending the Truth. By giving up don’t you think perhaps you are dissapointing God who gave you your Faith? One of the Spiritual Works of Mercy is to instruct the ignorant. Will you fail your ignorant neighbor and allow him to be deprived of the Truth?

I havent said anything about indulgences for the dead, yet.God is the god of the living. You cant change the fate of the dead. Thats a cruel hoax started by Pope Sixtus to drum up some extra cash. Sixtus was even amazed at the windfall of money it made him. It is appointed unto man once to die, and then judgment.How cruel, widows and the old and children of dead people spending sometimes everything they had to get their loved one out of some made up holding cell. man what a gig. Wish id thought of that. Theres no way to get your money back if it doesnt work, cause you will never know. At judgment day you will know.Some idolater said earlier that we dont understand indulgences. i do. They are a denial of the finished work of Christ. Maybe im wrong. yeah, thats the ticket. Im wrong. Jesus actually said; “it is finished, but you still have to buy some indulgences”

Brother Angelo, i admire your stick to itevness. If you believe in the correctness of your faith you shouldnt give up on defending it. May god bless you

Brother wayne, St. John says in the New Testament, “We all know this, God rewards every good and punishes every sin”, In the Book of the Macabees it says, “It is a holy and wholesome thought to pray for the dead that they may be loosed from their sins.”, the Macabee’s offered prayers and sacrifices for the sins of the dead. Christ taught penance to atone for our sins, in the New Testament it clearly states, “Alms covers a multitude of sins”. Christ speaks of those who will get off with fewer stripes. Christ has certainly won salvation for us, but we keep messing it up. So such is the need for the Holy Catholic Church and all She teaches as Truth. Brother wayne I will not give up defending my Catholic Faith. God Bless you too!

@Angelo, Hopefully Dennis has been true to his word, and is no longer reading.  I think it is unfair for you to place upon any normal person’s shoulders the burden of “brother wayne”.  Based on his comment following yours, he simply enjoys attention and taunting people.  There are some “neighbors” too ignorant for the Truth, at least at this juncture in their life. To make Dennis feel guilty for taking the high road seems very “wayne-like”.

Wayne gave himself away when he posted: “How cruel, widows and the old and children of dead people spending sometimes everything they had to get their loved one out of some made up holding cell. man what a gig. Wish id thought of that. Theres no way to get your money back if it doesnt work, cause you will never know.”

If Wayne believes his own words, he is asserting that a scam occurred, resulting in “ill-gotten gains”. He then stated that he wishes he’d thought of it - his greed is obvious.
Angelo, why don’t you take over the salvation of Brother Wayne?  You may just be the man for the job.

@wayne:  Angelo and I have disagreed on several points going back many weeks—but I will agree with him here.  If you wish to make a case against one or more Catholic positions or doctrine, remarks which are insulting or those making fun of Catholic practices is definitely not helpful to your position.  You only turn people off and they will dismiss you as an idiot.  Hopefully, if you make substantative and unhostile comments you will likely find more productive dialog from those who disagree with you.

Brother Casting Crowns, you are right. But how do i put it nicely? How do i inform Brother Angelo that the book of Macabees isnt inspired, thats why its not in the King James. Let me take a shot at niceness.
Toodleooo Angelo my brother. Nice weather were having.Oh, by the way, eh, Jesus never once spoke of praying for the dead to help them out. Oh gosh, dont take this the wrong way my friend, but that concept is anti scriptural.Toodleoo
You know, if my house was on fire, i wouldnt mind if someone was beating on my front door and yelling…get out, your place is on fire.Some are upset cause i mentioned the false idea of pergatory and the trick played on the faithfuls pocketbook.Oh, wayne offended me, what a bad person.There, waynes a bad person so now pergatory stands. Let me get back to indulgencing my bankrobber uncle out of pergatory. So, has anyone read any of the accounts of what hell is like? Is anyone offended at god for sending people there? hey, im a nice guy compared to god.My lord didnt ask the money changers and dove sellers nicely to get out of his house. He didnt coddle the scribes and pharisees by calling them hypocrits and vipers.My hope is to meet everyone in here in heaven.

When in the coffer a coin rings
out of pergatory a soul springs

Oh my, this is so very sad.  Please know brothers and sisters that I am now praying for all of you.  There is so much negativity and hatred spewing forth through these comments that I am sure our God is shaking His head, wondering what these people could be thinking.  There are so many errors, misconceptions, and erroneous comments listed here by non-Catholics and Catholics alike, that it is not practical to comment on all of them.  But there are a few that have not been corrected by others, and should be (without getting into a back and forth hate filled discussion).  First, the graven image statements; Catholics do “not” worship or “bow down to” graven images, statues, or any such material items.  In fact, the Catholic Church considers doing so to be among the gravest of sins; mortal and deadly.  Statues are simply reminders for us of those for whom the statues represent.  So that we can meditate on their contributions to the people of God and to our faith life.  Much like the Vietnam War Memorial and other memorials around this country are reminders of those who sacrificed their lives for us and our country.  We do not “worship” them, and no one considers them graven images now do they?  The same holds true for statues in Catholic churches.  Then there is the Bible;  no the Catholic Church did not “write” the Bible.  The Bible is not a book, but rather a collection of books.  It was compiled in the 400’s by St. Jerome, and the books included/excluded were approved by the Magisterium of the time after much prayer and contemplation, and as directed by the Holy Spirit.  Before that time the Church studied, taught, and operated under the precepts of “Church Tradition.”  It is “Church Tradition” that led to the compilation of the Bible.  It is Church Tradition that “must” be relied upon for interpretation of the Bible, as evidenced by the many Christian denominations and individual interpretations of the same.  We only need to examine the hateful arguments herein to understand the absolute necessity for only one authorized interpreter, as appointed by Almighty God, the one, holy, catholic, and apostolic Church.  Kudos to jjk and Meg for your positive posts.  At first glance I planned on thanking Dr. Timothy Hoffman for his positive comments about the hate being spread around so freely, then he also fell victim to anger and succumbed to this anger by his own negative attack.  Do you not know brothers and sisters that each and every hate filled comment drives another nail in our Lord’s Sacred Flesh?  How it pains Him to see His children deviate from the Love and Charity He demands!  What began as a positive post about a wonderful gift of an indulgence, mutated into Satanic attacks on each other.  I didn’t want to comment here, as I rarely do in forums such as this one; but after reading through these hate-filled attacks it seems necessary.  These arguments remind me of my children arguing about who is right, to the point of forgetting what started the argument in the first place.  What is wrong with us?  Yes “us,” me included.  We are such sinful creatures I often wonder how God can even stand us, but then I am reminded that He and His Love are so Pure and Perfect, and that is why He is God and we are not.  As for Purgatory; certainly I would like to spend less time suffering in that awful state of being, for I truly hate suffering, but actually I WELCOME IT!  Why do I welcome it?  Because if I am there, I am not in hell, and have the knowledge and hope that one day I will be purified and can spend eternity in the presence of God; worshiping Him, praising Him, serving Him, in the most wonderful of places so grand that NO human mind can contemplate or imagine it.  So I will study this gift; consult with my spiritual adviser; pray fervently; and do all in my power to fulfill its requirements. Please brothers and sisters I beg you in all humility; let us love one another in our hearts, by our words and actions, and not by insisting that “I” am right and another is wrong.  My prayers continue, and my our all powerful and all merciful God bless each and every one of you, as He touches your hearts with drops of His precious blood.  God bless,  NOTE: I tried posting this but there was an error.  When I tried to return to this page my post in this comment box had disappeared.  I pray it posts only once.  If not, my sincere apologies.

wayne, You certainly don’t offend me, how can you? I belong to the Holy Roman Catholic Church founded by Jesus Christ for the salvation of souls. As for your King James Bible, it contains over 40 major errors which change the Doctrines given to us by God. The Catholic Church put the Bible together. The protestants raped it. They threw books of the bible out. They had to, or they would have to admit error and admit the Catholic Church has the fullness of truth. The pride of satan overtook them and they prefer their pride to God’s truth. The King James version of the bible is a sinful book and we Catholics are not allowed to use it. We can use it for reference only, like looking at the errors it contains. Oh! and by the way I think your are very nice, in a namby pamby way of course. oops did I hurt your tender protestant feelings? Also you actualy believe your going to heaven? My Catholic Bible says no blasphemers can enter heaven. If your lucky you could still have a shot at purgatory, but I doubt it.

@Angelo:  You must be trying to out do wayne with [“If your lucky you could still have a shot at purgatory, but I doubt it.”]  THIS—is an example of Catholic love for your separated brother?  Angelo, you are acting childish.  Using your arguments, why don’t you list 5 of the “40 major errors in the KJ or NKG Bible so wayne has something he can digest and respond to.  Stop throwing grenades.

@wayne —You’re still not helping.  Better to try and find some common ground first and then try to move the argument.  This reminds me of Catholics and Protestants murdering each other in Ireland.

First, the graven image statements; Catholics do “not” worship or “bow down to” graven images, statues, or any such material items.  In fact, the Catholic Church considers doing so to be among the gravest of sins; mortal and deadly.
Posted by CharlieV
Thats odd, i have pictures of the faithful bowing, kneeling befor statues. Ive seen it with my own eyes in catholic churches all over eruope. I havent been to a catholic church in america for so long, i was a kid last time i was in an american one.Well, Brother Charlie, if you say no catholics have ever bowed befor graven images, ill have to go with you. My apologies to everyone. A statue is a graven image. graven;  ingrave, fashion with hands. Say, if the statues help focus your prayers to the person it represents, shouldnt the statue look like the person? No one knows what Mary looked like. If it doesnt matter that the statue doesnt look like the saint or Jesus or Mary, theoretically, couldnt the statue look like cookie monster? Just have a sign that says Mary on the bottom.
The King James version of the bible is a sinful book and we Catholics are not allowed to use it.
A quote from brother Angelo.
Finally, an honest admission as to how catholics feel about the King james. I like you Angelo. I find the King James has the plan of salvation down pretty good. i dont see anything lacking. the life and crucifiction, the 4 gospels, the Acts, the letters, everything seems to be there for edification and correction of erring saints.I know, the faith alone bothers catholics, with their works mindset. It takes faith to ask jesus to make you born again. Born again is how you enter heaven. Now , once youre born again(saved) good works follow. Its not the good works that gains you salvation. Theses plenary indulgences come after you have done certain tasks. Works theology. personally, i stand on the statement by Christ..“it is finished”. There is nothing i can do to save myself. I did what was asked of me. I invited the Lord into my heart.There was nothing else i had to to. I didnt have to go here and there and do this and that. I have no costumed holymen lording over me, handing god out to me. Those are tricks.Cruel tricks. the veil of the temple was torn from top to bottom. Now i can approach god for myself, with no need of intercessor.

wayne, By the Teachings of the Catholic Church each has the obligation to search for the Truth who is Christ himself. As for being born again, I was born again, at Baptism. When Original sin was removed. As for the King James Version of the bible it is in fact an abomination to God. The errors were in fact deliberate, adding and taking away from God’s Holy Words. You say you stand by the words of Christ, “It is finished”. Then I take it you reject the Resurrection, the granting to the priesthood the power to forgive and retain sin, the Ascencion of our Lord into heaven with the promise of the Paraclete “That will teach you all Truth”, Pentecost which was the official Birth of the One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church. I take it you reject the epistles written at a later date, you probably reject St. Matthias and St. Paul. Brother wayne learn what Our Lord meant by “Consumatum Est”.

Casting Crowns, I understand where your coming from. But it was wayne that came on this Catholic site with his blasphemies against Christ’s Church. Please afford me this fun I’m having with him. He should have known better than to come on a Catholic site with his errors and false Ideas against Catholics. Besides this thread is about the Plenary Indulgence granted by the Holy Father for the Year of Faith. He came along just to ruin it, he did not come in a friendly manner.

I get New Advent in my mail. I dont just look up catholic sites. There are others who come here who dont believe in indulgences, im not the only one. I come here with good news. Jesus is risen and you too can meet him. You know what blasphemy is? Its calling some man by gods name; Holy Father.

@Angelo:  You should not be having “fun” with this—but try to be instructional.  Your idea of being born again at Baptism is not how Christians view it.  Baptizing an infant does not mean the baby is thus automatically indwelled with the Holy Spirit.  It’s not pixie dust.  Moreover, Christians view being Born Again is when you know the Spirit of the Lord has come over you, brought you into new life in Christ and that He has forgiven you of your sins.  A man will undeniably know it.  I know Catholics cannot relate to this, but it is true.  The term Born Again has completely different meanings between Catholics and Christians.  And btw, not all your traditional mainline Protestant chuches can be considered Christian since apostacy abounds in many churches.  Very likely Catholicism and the Evangelical church today agree on many things.  It’s the 10% which is is large disagreement.  I could list a few (if you like).
[“Then I take it you reject the Resurrection”]  Angelo, how can someone have faith in Christ and reject the Resurrection?  That is an absurd comment you made to Wayne.

@wayne:  You are still too hostile.  You do not understand the Catholic perspective.  Protestants criticize Catholics for calling their priests “Father”—or the Pope —“Holy Father.”  Of course, the criticism comes from Matthew 23:1-12 **Christ is warning against calling men teachers or masters in a way that is proper to God alone, our true and ultimate teacher and master.  It does not literally mean that we cannot address others as “Father”, even in a religious context. Also, people who object to our calling a man “Father” forget that in the same passage Christ also says, “Call no man teacher.”

Personaly, I reject the idea of indulgences

Casting Crowns, You draw a distinction between Catholics and Christians. The true Christians are in fact Catholics. Here in the US people falsley claim that Catholics are not Christians. In Europe and the Middle East we are hardly ever refered to as Catholics, we are refered to as Christians. As for Baptism and the Holy Ghost, we actualy receive the Holy Ghost at conception. How can one say that a Baptized Catholic does not have the Holy Ghost. The Holy Ghost is the Lord and giver of life, he gives and sustains all life whether Catholic or pagan. The absurd comment you refer to my making was not absurd. wayne says that when Our Lord said “Consumatum Est” that that was it, it was all finished. What Christ meant was that mans reconciliation with God was complete. That is why I was questioning wayne about all that happened after Our Lords death. I was doing like the protestants, they scrutinize every word from a Catholic whether important or not. Why is it an error to enjoy defending the Faith? I believe its rather a virtue. Now I would like to mention a few of the errors of the Kings James Version of the Bible and you will see that the Church’s condemnation of this translation is justified. Take the 10 Commandments, God says make no graven images. A graven image is an image made by man in order to give it divine worship. The King James deliberatly ommitted the word “Graven” as an attack against the Church. Also the King James changed God’s ten comandments by taking two and combining them into one. Then adding another commandment which is actualy part of another. Going now to the New Testament, Jesus says that he comes to call for “PENANCE for the remission of sins” The King James changed penance to repentance, two different words with different meanings, this was a blatant attack against the Doctrine of Purgatory. They did this because it would be harder for them to attack Purgatory. Then take what the KJ interprets what Christ said about marriage, “Divorce is not allowed except in cases of Adultery” Christ did not say this, his words were, “Divorce is not allowed except in cases of FORNICATION” Big difference. Luther ripped out books from the OT and he was about to throw out the book of St. James from the NT. But backed off because many of his followers threatened that they would no longer follow him if he did. These examples from Holy Mother the Church were enough to convince me that the KJ could only lead me to hell if I relied on it for my spiritual life. Casting Crowns you said I made an absurd statement. Do you still think my statements have been absurd? The Church is guided by the Holy Ghost, that is how the Church caught the protestant deception that came from the evil one to change scripture as an attack against the Holy Catholic Church.

@Angelo, how does a fetus receive the Holy Ghost mere seconds after you and your wife have sex?

Ok brother Angelo, lets put penance in for repent.Isnt penance something you do? Here goes; Jesus says….do penance, for the kingdom of heaven is at hand. Do 150 hail Marys, visit 4 shrines, bow to 8 statues and ill let you into heaven.

I wonder what the Sisters of Perpetual Indulgence will think of this! Wonderful news!

@Lawna, the group you speak of consists of men in drag - wearing a modified version of a nun’s habit.  They run a non-profit performance group, and make people aware of the importance of AIDS awareness and of having lots of fun in life, presumably while at the same time managing not to acquire HIV.  I am not sure which is the more important aspect of the group - the religious mockery or the many issues that they speak about while wearing their glittery habits.  I can’t see WHY what they think would be of special significance anymore than that of other secular performance groups.

I hope everyone will read the “CATECHISM of the CATHOLIC CHURCH, Second Edition” “as revised in accordance with the official Latin Text promulgated by Pope John Paul II”.

QUOTE - - - CCC: ” 1471 The doctrine and practice of indulgences in the Church are closely linked to the effects of the sacrament of Penance.
What is an indulgence?
An indulgence is a remission before God of the temporal punishment due to sins whose guilt has already been forgiven, which the faithful Christian who is duly disposed gains under certain prescribed conditions through the action of the Church which, as the minister of redemption, dispenses and applies with authority the treasury of the satisfactions of Christ and the saints.
“An indulgence is partial or plenary according as it removes either part or all of the temporal punishment due to sin.The faithful can gain indulgences for themselves or apply them to the dead. ” - - -  UNQUOTE

AND

QUOTE - - - CCC: ” 1478 An indulgence is obtained through the Church who, by virtue of the power of binding and loosing granted her by Christ Jesus, intervenes in favor of individual Christians and opens for them the treasury of the merits of Christ and the saints to obtain from the Father of mercies the remission of the temporal punishments due for their sins.
Thus the Church does not want simply to come to the aid of these Christians, but also to spur them to works of devotion, penance, and charity. “- - - UNQUOTE.

On interent see: ” What Catholics REALLY Believe SOURCE ”  for quotes from our Popes about the CCC, along with verifiable Church teaching.

When was the last time you read the CCC in entirety?
When was the last time you encourages another to do so?

I invite all the non-Catholics blogging on this page to read the “Catechism of the Catholic Church, Second Edition”.
The CCC can be purchased through most Catholic catalogue sites on the internet and Catholic book stores.
If you want to know the TRUTH of what the Catholic Church teaches go directly to the source.

“….the Catechism has raised throughout the world, even among non-Christians, and confirms its purpose of being presented as a full, complete exposition of Catholic doctrine, enabling everyone to know what the Church professes, celebrates, lives, and prays in her daily life.” – Pope John Paul II (CCC pg xiv)

Casting Crowns, You ask how the Holy Ghost enters a fetus seconds after conception. Maybe you fell into the “Who has the Holy Spirit?” trap type of religion. 35 years ago I joined the Catholic Charismatic movement. It was all about pointing fingers at who has the Holy Spirit and who does’nt. The fact is that to the Holy Ghost is attributed Life itself. In the Credo we profess, “I believe in the Holy Ghost the Lord the giver of life.”. When the Angel Gabriel came unto Mary, Our Lady said, “How can this be, I do not know man”, The Archangel told Mary that she would “conceive by the Holy Ghost” Mary gave her Fiat and at that the Archangel left her. Lo and behold, Mary had conceived through the Holy Ghost. St. Elizabeth upon greeting Mary “was filled with the Holy Ghost”, St. Simeon with his “Nunc Dimittus” was filled with the Holy Ghost. When the spirit leaves us, our bodies immediatly dies. The Holy Ghost then is the Lord and giver and sustainer of Life. Without him a child could not be conceived, we could not live. How the Lord of Life does this I do not know. But lets at least uphold the Truth that he in fact does.

@Angelo, a technical blog question - A question came into my email (pop ups when a new comment is posted).  The question was rather crudely worded, but @YOU and there you are answering it above - sans comment/question.  Was the comment pulled immediately after posting?  Or is there some blog way to just have questions go to everyone’s email, instead of being “posted”? I just wondered, and thought you might know - since it was directed to you.

wayne, I detect more blasphemies in your statement. 3 of the main effective penances is prayer, fasting, and almsgiving. But by bowing to statues you are implying that Catholics are Idolaters. Put “Graven” back into scripture. Did God order his people to worship statues? I mean he ordered the people to make 2 huge statues of Angels to guard the Holy of Holies, and he ordered 2 huge bronze lions to be cast, one to stand at each side of the entrance of the temple in order to guard it. In the dessert he punished his people by sending poisonous serpants to bite and kill his people. When the people repented, God ordered Moses to cast a bronze serpent and set it on a pole. those who looked upon the bronze serpent were saved from their snake bites. If Catholics are idolaters then so is God. Thats why I say put “graven” back into scripture. Dump that KJ Bible in the trash and get yourself a good Catholic Bible. I respect my protestant brothers, what I don’t respect are attacks against the truths of Christ’s Holy Catholic Church.

Kellyann, I don’t really understand. Are you saying that in a pop up someone asked me a question? If so what was the question?

ANNE, A breath of fresh air, are your 2 posts. We could do so much good in obtaining Indulgences for ourselves and for the Holy Souls in Purgatory. But one must understand what an indugence is, as Indulgences have been so attacked by the ignorant. Thanks for those posts. If anyone does not read your explanation of Indulgences, its because they don’t really care. So it would be their loss.

@Angelo….I get a pop up on my screen any time anyone posts.  It must be my computer…..the pop ups are coming in hours after the posts and out of order. I had to go back and re-read the posts.  Sorry for my confusion.

Kellyann, There is a link at the end of each post that allows you to disable receiving anymore comments on a certain thread. Also when one posts a comment at the bottom there is a “Notify me of follow-up comments” If you uncheck it, then follow ups on the thread will not be automaticaly sent. I think this is what you mean. Thank you.

@Angelo…thank you

@Angelo:  [“The fact is that to the Holy Ghost is attributed Life itself.”]  Wrong answer for **that of the flesh.**  Both the Gospel of John 14 and Paul in Romans 8 run contrary to your position.  The Holy Ghost is attributed to having new life—life in the Spirit.  Angelo, no fetus is automatically indwelled with the Spirit.  Every man and woman is born dead—-Spiritually.  He must come upon you in order to be Born Again to “new life.”

THE CHURCH IS BEING INSPIRED! SHE CAN NOT BE UTTERING WHAT MISGUIDES! THE HOLY SPIRIT IS ALWAYS WITH US!

THE CHURCH IS WISE! YOU NEED FAITH TO EMBRACE THE MYSTERIES!

@Angelo:  You wrote—[“35 years ago I joined the Catholic Charismatic movement. It was all about pointing fingers at who has the Holy Spirit and who doesn’t”]  On this we agree.  I have attended these conventions from time to time only due to my interest.  I have observed most attendees are more interested in receiving spirtual gifts than they are with the actual gift “giver.”  They are more interested in healings that the ONE who is the actual “healer.”  The reason the attending Bishops and Priests do not bother to correct these errors and do away with these events is because (1) these clergy are also deceived, or (2) they do not wish to upset these many rabid Catholics for fear they might leave the church.  They may think they have the Spirit, but it could be they have the wrong one—(small “s”).

Catholics always tell me to go read the catechism. The catechism is written by the CC about the CC. The twisting of scripture is monumental in that book. Of course a religion will talk good about itself. Go read the book of Mormon or the Watchtower.+Who cares what the catholic church says? Take a look at what it has done and is doing.Burning bible believes at the stake, and worse. Eliminating whole groups of people because they wouldnt do as the vatican said. Popes and clergy engaging in the worst kind of vises. Murder, pedophila, money laundering, drug running(these are the current vices), cover ups, shuffeling criminal priests around to save them from prosecution. Forget what the CC says about itself. Of course it says its wonderful.

Hi Wayne - you are quite right to say we have an unsavoury past as a church - we also have done tremendous good too - it’s not all bad.  We do strive to listen to, understand, share and live the Word of God - and as you have said we do fall short, however we believe that we are improving and moving forward, closer to Jesus and his wonderful teachings.  We need people like you in our church so that we can all strive and seek holiness together.  One day there will be One Shepherd and One Flock,

Casting Crowns, No wrong answer here. The Holy Ghost is the author of all life. Even the birds of the air are fed by God. The Flowers are clothed by God. God being the Triune God, the Holy Ghost is the giver of life, not only to humans but even to the birds of the air and the flowers in the field. Its all about life. To say that the Holy Ghost has nothing to do with life is absurd.

@Angelo, you still don’t get it.  I’m talking about Spiritual Life, not life in general.

Casting Crowns, You are the one that still does not get it. All good comes from God. Even Pagans and infidels receive inspirations to do good and these inspirations come from the Holy Ghost. Take the Magi, it was the Holy Ghost who inspired them to follow the Star of the Saviour. When one seeks the truth about God it is the Holy Ghost at work. Do you deny God to others? Perhaps it is you and I who do not have the Holy Ghost, perhaps it is we who do not follow his inspirations.

wayne, You talk as if one who can no longer endure sound Doctrine, but your ears itch for fables. Give historical proof that people were burned at the stake for not doing what the Vatican said. Why do you fear the Cathecism? Is it because you will find the challenging truth? Don’t knock it till you have read it from front to back. The Cathecism is all about Jesus. You say the twisting of scripture in the Cathecism is monumental. Please give at least 25 examples. All you claim about the sins of Catholics, they are in fact far worse in protestant churches. The Catholic Church is pure and spotless. Don’t confuse the teachings of the Church with those members who act like protestants.

Sorry, Angelo.  Then there was no need for Pentecost.  There’s no need for Baptism.  The Magi argument doesn’t wash.  The Bible says God hardened Pharaoh’s heart against the Hebrews.  God can (and does) move in the lives of people to accomplish His purposes.  This does not mean they are indwelled by the Holy Spirit and born to new life.

Thank you sister Meg. If i was catholic, i would change that church for the better.
Angelo, you want proof that the CC burned people at the stake? Im not going to give it to you. Second, i dont have tthe time to waste reading that catechism. Here is one false statement i read in your catechism…..it says Mary presented baby Jesus to the priest at the temple. In the catholic churches haste to make Mary the be all and end all, it lies to its readers. mary didnt present Jesus, the father of the child presents the baby to the priest in jewish tradition. Plus, the bible says Josph presented jesus. theres one. im not going to go and find more. i dont care enough.

Fables? try ever virgin Mary, born without being a sinner, floated up to heaven, and dispenses all grace. You lap that hoax up. I think even your catholic bible says jesus had brothers and sisters. All have sinned, even Mary, and come short the glory of god. All means all, except in fables.

I enjoyed Meg’s last post - very good.  It does no good to deny that the Catholic church has a checkered past history.  In fact, last year, I read in a Catholic publication that most of the (now canonized) saints, were persecuted and many of them killed, by insiders.  Like Joan of Arc.  Burned at the stake.  But there were several others too.

Yet, it is also the Catholic church that in America did so much to open hospitals and schools, and perhaps MOST of the people that went through their systems - created by nuns, were well served.  A good friend of mine has nothing but good things to say about the nuns she knew as teachers.

With that said, when my friend and I were discussing the topic of this blog, indulgence for the Year of Faith, she reminded me that she would be unable to fulfill one of the methods of obtaining said indulgence: namely, the one about visiting the church where she was baptized. 

In fact, she bristled when she even thought about that, although she does not believe in indulgences, she said if she did, her childhood parish was sold about 20 years ago to a Swami, for his “Church of Self-Realization”.
Her whole family were members of that parish, for generations.  Weddings, baptisms, Confirmations, funerals, Sunday Mass.  All wiped out.

The diocese needed money, and a small non-Catholic Christian congregation wanted to buy the church from the diocese.  But the swami had deeper pockets, and money won out.  My friend once lamented the sale of the property to a nun she knew (not well, just an aquaintance) and the nun told her the church was not special.  It was just a building.  On the one hand, my friend agreed.  But - it would have been nice, if at least the small Christian congregation had it, to use to worship God.  Perhaps then, my friend could stomach going into the building.  The swami repels Catholics and other Christians.

Sister terah,the catholic church is filled with good devout god loving people.Im talking about the people in the pews, not the clergy. the charities and hospitals are really the efforts of the regular catholic member. i know theres lots of sweet caring nuns and priests. Its the checkered history that makes the claim of the CC being gods church null and void. My beef is that people are born into and die in it, while never receiving salvation from Christ.

hey brother Angelo, i posted something you said to me on a catholic site. heres what someone said about your claims the KJV is devilish;his individual Angelo is seriously misrepresenting the Catholic Church and it’s teaching in numerous ways. Most blatantly with his remarks about purgatory, anyone who has made it to purgatory will eventually enter heaven in any case and this gentleman Angelo should familiarise himself with his own Church and it’s teaching. Also his approach to you as you a a member of our seperated brethren is not consistent with the Catechism or Church teaching. His comments are about equally silly as those on that website you linked to. Both that website and this gent’s comments are caricatures of Catholicism.

@Angelo,—Terrah James points out the Catholic church has a checkered past.  On the other hand they have done much good in service to the poor, building hospitals and in educating young children.  You should stop, however, only viewing the Catholic church with rose-colored glasses and admit they have not always done the right thing.  I hope your not among those defending Cardinal Law, Monsignor Lynn, Cardinal Bevilacqua and Bishop Finn for failing to deal justly and transparently with abusive clergy under their charge.

Wayne - I noticed you even write your own name with a small “w”.  But will you please consider capitalizing the “G” for God’s Name?  Just a friendly and respectful request, to you, from me…..

Regarding those sweet and caring nuns and priests contrasted with the checkered history and a leap that the Catholic Church is not “God’s Church”: I disagree with you.

While it is TRUE that people are born into and die in it, while never receiving salvation from Christ, salvation is a gift of the Holy Spirit.  It is He that draws us.  Jesus will lose NO ONE that was given to Him by the Father.

I know many people that truly love the Lord, and they are Catholic.  In many instances, they are mislead (like these indulgences!) but God knows their hearts.  From the beginning of time, the names of these people was written into the Lamb’s Book of Life.

It is our obligation to plant good seeds about the faith given to us by the APOSTLES, specified in the Deposit of Faith (closed when the canon of New Testament Scripture was documented, and approved.  The DOF is NO LONGER accepting deposits) and to peak their curiosity about reading the Love Letter given to us by God Himself: the Bible, so that we can 1) know God for ourselves and 2) accept His promises to us, as heirs of the Kingdom of God so that 3) we can live with Him forever in Heaven.

Just today, I read somewhere that the US bishops are going to discuss how priests can use their homilies at Sunday Mass (although they are a woefully short 7 mintues long) to TEACH the faith to people in the pews.
I believe all of us need to encourage the bishops and our priests to be in the word, so that they CAN be equipped to teach, and preach well. 

Even if they took the Nicene Creed, and explained what we believe.  Sunday, after Sunday - until Catholics are secure in knowing God, and in knowing they have salvation.  “My people perish, for lack of knowledge.”
It does not have to be like that.

Our Christian faith is not difficult. This is why Jesus said the Kingdom belonged to those that merely believe Him, with child-like faith, trust, and obedience.  No theological degree required.  In fact, theology degrees can hamper our relationship with Christ, and placing our faith, trust and obedience to anyone BUT Jesus, is harmful.

Sunday, after Sunday - until Catholics are secure in knowing God, and in knowing they have salvation.  “

If a person is saved(born again) they know it. They dont have to be taught they are saved. Its impossible to explain being saved. but you have a new spirit put in you. First you have to ask to be born again. When it happens, its really weird, but at the same time , it feels great to actually know Jesus, the creator of heaven and earth. YOU want to tell everyone you see.Thats the problem with religions. They tell you that you have to have their costumed holyman teach you to be saved.The costume holyman went to man of god school and got his diploma, and now hes a man of God.You know, there are only a few born again people on this earth rite now.The road is narrow and few be there on.Thats why i almost cry when someone boasts about the catholic church having 1 billion members. Wont they be surprised. Ill bet you never hear a catholic priest say to his flock, the road to salvation is narrow and few be thereon. No, they tell them that only catholics go to heaven. No salvation outside the indulgence selling catholic church.

Dear Wayne, I am very glad that you have had an experience of the Presence of Jesus Christ in your prayers. I have added you to my prayer list, and I encourage everyone here to do the same. I hope you will pray for me as well. May God bless you.

I will be equally distressed if many Catholics and non-Catholics will not make it to heaven. However, I have been told in sermons many, many times that the road to salvation is narrow. I have studied the New Catholic Catechism and other papal documents and they do not say that only Catholics go to heaven. However, whether they realize it or not, everyone will be saved through Jesus Christ, for He said, “I AM the Way.” He also said He would be with the Church until the end of time. He gave certain authority to Peter and the apostles which they faithfully handed down to subsequent generations. If that authority has somehow been lost over time, then Jesus Christ is a liar. Since He is God, I doubt sincerely that what He promised has not taken place. When the Church speaks authoritatively, Jesus Christ speaks. That’s what His promises in the Bible mean.

The desire for God is the highest form of prayer, and God is the Father of all Mankind.  I have a Shinto friend, who believes in 886 gods. She accidentally received Holy Communion at my mother’s funeral Mass. She came back from communion with tears running down her face. I said to her later, “What happened?” She said, “Susan, it was like when I go to the Shinto shrines in Japan. God came to meet me!” We as Catholics certainly believe that God comes to meet every man and woman regardless of their religion. He doesn’t make distinctions based on your denomination. In the end there may be more Hindus than Catholics in heaven, we don’t know. It’s up to each individual to respond to God’s initiative. We Catholics work out our salvation in fear and trembling. We don’t assume—like some who thinks they are born again—we don’t assume that we are saved. To assume that is presumptuous. Some people with that belief think, “Well I accepted Jesus Christ as my savior so now I can go to the bar and commit adultery and I will still be saved.” A good Catholic would never think like that. Nor would a good Catholic think, “Well, I’ll go to the bar and commit adultery with someone tonight and then tomorrow I’ll go to confession, communion and renew my baptismal promises at the Church I was baptized at and I’ll get a plenary indulgence. It’s the Year of Faith!” A person with that thinking will never receive a plenary indulgence. Unless they repent they may not even make it to Purgatory. 
I don’t expect you to understand a Catholic indulgence. But I want you to know that you can’t have one even if you give the Church $1 billion unless you meet certain conditions:  go to Confession, resolve to amend your life, receive Jesus Christ in the Holy Eucharist and have no attachment to sin. Without those conditions, which are designed to help you amend your life and get to heaven, no money in the world will get you a plenary indulgence. But a poor person who sincerely tries to amend his life, and meet these conditions can have the plenary indulgence for free. No money changes hands. It’s all between you and God.
However, a plenary indulgence is not necessary for salvation. It is like a Catholic perk. The Church also believes that a great sinner can go to heaven with perfect contrition at death.  If you are a Shinto woman who sincerely desires God and lives by the 10 commandments (which are written on the heart of every man), then you will go to heaven! And Catholics believe that. But when she goest to heaven, she will meet THE WAY, THE TRUTH, THE LIFE: Jesus Christ, the Man who came to her when she turned her heart to God. God bless you. Susan Fox http://christsfaithfulwitness.blogspot.com

@Susan Fox:  The problem with what you wrote is that while it sounds “nice”  —what you said is NOT what the Catholic Church teaches.  They teach “There is no salvation outside the Catholic Church.”

Thank you sister Susan. Youre right, you cant just say i accept Jesus as Lord and saviour and bang youre saved. You can ask him to come into your heart, then you wait. For me, it was at nite on a bus. All of a sudden i saw things different. Out of the clear blue. I know know that was the instant Jesus gave me a new spirit. Born again. And yes, born again people can tell who is also born again, because they know the same person, Jesus. When someone starts talking about jesus, i can tell real quick if they have never met the man. Try getting saved. Its there for the asking.
Sister Susan, mind if i visit your site? Ill try to behave

wayne, If you were a Catholic you would be excommunicated for heresy. The Triune God forms, protects, defends, builds up his Catholic Church, what could you possibly fix, I’m sure you have not gone so far as to think you know better than God. The Church is Indefectable, but its members are not impeccable. You claimed many were burned at the stake for not doing what the Vatican said. The reason you will not give historical proof is because it never happened, so how could you prove something happened when it never did. Just another fable! It was you who claimed about the Cathecism, “The twisting of scripture is monumental” Since it being monumental as you say, I asked for 25 examples. You now state you have never read it but nevertheless you speak as a self proclaimed expert on the Cathecism. You give only one of your false examples. That it was not the Mother of God who presented the Child Jesus in the Temple but St. Joseph. Scripture says it was both of them, and it was to Mary that St. Simeon spoke about the Child, that he would be the rise and downfall of many in Israel, and said to Our Lady, “Your own Heart shall be pierced with a sword so that the hearts of many may be revealed. When St. John the Baptist was presented in the Temple it was both his Father and Mother who presented him. The problem with many protestants reading scripture is that they read it, scrambling to find something to attack the Catholic Church with. They don’t care whether they have to rip out books from scripture or change Gods words to meet their ends.

wayne, As for accepting Jesus as our personal saviour, inviting him into our hearts, being converting to God at every moment, it can happen anywhere at anytime. Mary the Mother of God taught us the secret to it all. She taught it to us when at the wedding of Cana, she said to the servants (all of us) “DO ALL THAT HE TELLS YOU.”. This is how we accept Jesus as our personal Saviour. There is no other way!

Casting Crowns, That the Church has a checkered past, it all depends on what you are talking about. The Catholic Church was founded by Christ as his Bride, and he did not choose a woman of ill repute. His Bride the Church is pure and spotless and perfect in all her teachings and Sacraments. She cannot err on matters of faith and morals. She is protected in a most sublime manner by the Triune God. All for our salvation. I think what your talking about is the members of the Church. We are not impeccable, we are all capable of great evil. St. John says in scripture, “Every man is a sinner. The man who says he is not a sinner is a liar. He lies to himself and to God.” Here there are 2 types of sinners, those who everyone else knows their sins, and those who have cunningly covered theirs up. But the Good News is that Christ gave to priests the power to forgive sins in the confessional. We must all make use of this Sacrament. It liberates us from our crimes against God and Neighbor. And each time we go to confession, we are a new creation again. Now which Church with a checkered past were you talking about?

Terah James, You spoke of that girls parish being sold. A Nun told her the Church was not important. Must of been a modernist Nun. In my late teens the modernists were going around saying in the “spirit of Vatican ll” that the Church building was an ordinary building just like any other building, with no importance whatsoever. Later I found out that was a lie. Many Churches around the world have carved in stone above the main entrance, “Porta Coeli” Door to Heaven. The Holy Sacrifice of the Mass is offered in such buildings, people are born again through Baptism, ones first Confession is heard, one receives their first Holy Communion, one receives the Sacrament of Confirmation, Christ is present in a literal manner in the Blessed Sacrament ect… The Church building is of the grandest importance. The problem wih those who say it is not, is that they have no faith in God, they do not believe in God. They only fake that they do. One phenomonan that has always fascinated me is this, enter a Catholic Church and enter a non-Catholic Church, one will notice a supernatural difference. In a Catholic Church one truly senses a holy presence. In a non-Catholic Church this presence is not there. I know this and everyone I know, knows this.

Susan Fox, Your post of Oct ll, 2012 10:ll PM. The truth spoken with true Faith, Hope and Charity. I placed you in my prayers, I truly hope you place me in yours, I need very much prayers from people like yourself. God Bless!

@Angelo—The “Church” is the Body of Christ.  This means all Believers truly devoted to the Lord.  Not those churches which accept gay marriage or have women pastors for they exist in deception.  Such things violate the Bible.  The Body of Christ (in this context) is not the exclusive domain of Catholicism.  Moreover, the “Body” includes all Believers who accept Jesus as Lord and that He died for the sins of man, rose from the dead and will come again that His people will have everlasting life.  Let me be clear.  Not all people, but His people which belong to Him.  You cannot deny membership to the Body of truly devoted Christians who have lived their whole lives in Bible-based church having never been engaged in Catholicism.  The apostles once pulled your argument with Jesus when others (upon hearing the word) began teaching and healing in the name of Jesus.  The apostles were upset that these people “were not one of us.”  Jesus told the apostles “He who is for us is not against us.”

@Angleo:  [“People are born again through Baptism.”]  Angelo, this is major contrast between what Catholics teach and believe versus that of Christians.  Christians believe you are Born Again when the Holy Spirit comes upon you.  A man or woman will know this.  It’s a fact a Christian man or woman will know it.  This is why a Christian can know with certainty they are saved.  Catholics can only “hope” they are saved.  This is your doctrine.  You believe salvation can be lost —saved today and lost tomorrow.  You do not have any security in that thinking.  Knowing one is saved does not mean you thus can sin without consequences.  In fact, a Born Again Christian is motiviated to live a life pure and in communion with Christ.  Someone who thinks they are “saved” while thinking they can still do anything they choose is in deception.  Such a person is living a lie and never was saved at all.

@Angelo:  Here’s a question for you.  A Catholic woman just finishes confessing her sins to a priest before the 5pm Saturday evening Mass.  The priest absolves her of all her sins.  She has made a good confession and her soul in now cleansed from all sin.  After Mass while driving to the grocery store, a driver cuts her off and she breaks the the Commandment of swearing and using God’s name in a vulgar, disgusting way.  She has now committed a Mortal Sin by Catholic doctrine.  The next day she dies from a heart attack without the opportunity to have confessed having cursed and blasphemed the name of God to a priest.  By Catholic doctrine she has died in a state of Mortal Sin.  Catholic doctrine says she is going to Hell.  Is this woman really going to Hell?  This is why Catholics believe you can lose your salvation.

One is born again when one is baptisted.  Catholic means christain!!! In fact it is the original word for Christain.

Casting Crowns, Lets let God answer you. In scripture in the OT God says of a Man, if he does good all his life and then turns to evil, he must die, not for the good he has done but for the evil he turned to. Likewise if a man does evil all his life but turns from his evil ways and does good. He will live, not because of the evil he done but because he turned from it and done good. In another part, satan says to God, that certain man will die today and he will be damned, God answers him, that is true. This man on his path passes a dead poisonous snake. satan is infuriated because the man did not die as it was appointed. God answers him, on his way he met a hungry man and shared his meal with the hungry man, so I have spared him. As for salvation, scripture intructs us to work it out with fear and trembling. Also scripture says, “You hold your soul in a fragile vase, take heed lest you shatter it” Now allow me to ask you a question, What if Hitler in his youth accepted Jesus as his personal saviour, and later murdered 12 million Catholics, 6 million Jews and 4 million protestants and other minorities. Then according to you, Hitler is now enjoying heaven as he accepted Jesus as his saviour in his youth. The Bible belongs to the Catholic Church, it was She who put it together. After 2000 years do you actually think that the Church has missed something in it. The Church knows scripture better than anyone else. You need to study what the Church teaches, never pretend to know what you do not know.

Casting Crowns, I forgot to add that you contradict yourself quite a bit. According to you, everyone belongs to the body of Christ, except those who you personaly leave out. Read Kathleen Crawfords post. Catholics are Christians, not only are they Christians, they are the true Christians and they have been for 2000 years. Protestants came along 500 years ago, when they left Christ’s Catholic Church they took many of her treasures with them. One of the treasures they took was the Holy Name of Christianity. Catholic and Christian have been our titles for 2000 years.

@Kathleen Crawford: “Catholic” means *universal*, not Christian.  You’re also not reading what I wrote.  Catholics view “Born Again” occurs at Baptism.  Christians view Baptism as an outward public declaration to the Church they “have been” now Born Again—of the Spirit.  The term clearly has a different meaning between Catholics and Evangelical Christians.  My intent is not persuade you to one conclusion or the other but only to explain the two differing perspectives.  Thank you.

@Angelo:  [“According to you, everyone belongs to the body of Christ.”]  No, that is not what I said.  You sound like Joe Biden.  I said the Body of Christ consists of all Believers in the life, atonement death and resurrection of Christ Jesus.  So you are clear again, Angelo, not everyone belongs to the Body of Christ.

@Angleo:  [“In scripture in the OT God says of a Man, if he does good all his life and then turns to evil, he must die, not for the good he has done but for the evil he turned to. Likewise if a man does evil all his life but turns from his evil ways and does good. He will live, not because of the evil he done but because he turned from it and done good.”]—-Your source reference, please?  Also, you do know all men die regardless because they are sinners.  The man who dies in Christ dies physically but does not die Spritually because Christ lives in him.  And by the way, you failed to answer if that Catholic woman with a heart attack who died in a state of Mortal Sin is going to Hell?

@Angelo:  [“What if Hitler in his youth accepted Jesus as his personal saviour, and later murdered 12 million Catholics, 6 million Jews and 4 million protestants and other minorities. Then according to you, Hitler is now enjoying heaven as he accepted Jesus as his saviour in his youth.”]—-  That’s a bogus question since no one truly receiving Jesus as Savior and Lord could ever do such evil.  In your Catholic mindset you think it’s possible.  In the Christian view, that is not possible.  By the way, you do know Hitler and Mussolini were Baptized Catholics—and, according you and Catholic teaching—they were thus Born Again of the Spirit.  Somehow that Born Again “Catechism” teaching process didn’t “take” for these guys.

Casting Crowns, You say that no one who receives Jesus as Savior could ever do such evil. I know people who have left the Catholic Church only to turn around and blapheme Christ’s Church. Now that is one of the evils for which God sends souls to hell the most. You say that I failed to answer your question, I did answer it. Now answer mine. If Hitler accepted Jesus as his personal saviour, lets say in his youth, then he is in heaven? If practicing homosexuals accept Jesus as their Saviour with all sincerity and continue practicing their depraved lifestyle, then according to you they cannot lose their souls and when they die they go straight to heaven. The greatest deception is to think that one who accepts Jesus as his personal saviour, the loss of his soul is absolutley immpossible. Thank God I’m a Catholic!!!

ngelo says:  His Bride the Church is pure and spotless and perfect in all her teachings and Sacraments. She cannot err on matters of faith and morals.

In the catholic canon, it says negroes are sub human. Ive seen it for myself. It was yrs ago and ill never find it again unless some one tells me where it is.
No salvation outside the murderous catholic church. Pure and spotless.Here is something you CAn sink your teeth into; Rome sits on seven hills. The priest holds up a golden cup. The clergy wears purple and scarlet.The CC is famous for shedding the blood of bible believers. Stop me when im wrong

@Angelo:  Ok, then the woman went to Hell because Catholic doctrine says she died in a state of Mortal Sin without confession to a priest.  This is your Catholic “Good News” of the gospel of Jesus Christ???  In your hypothetical re Adolf Hitler, no he is not in Heaven.  Let’s be clear.  You said:  [“I know people who have left the Catholic Church only to turn around and blaspheme Christ’s Church.”]  So? so,—why should I be surprised?  They were never saved to begin with, and never had the Holy Spirit come upon them.  It is you who think this is strange for a Catholic to leave the church and blaspheme the Church **because** they were Born Again in Catholic Baptism.  I, on the other hand, do not find this strange at all since the Catholic you describes never had the Holy Spirit to begin with.  It doesn’t come at Baptism like Catholic teaching tells you.  That’s why the person left—he/she never had the Holy Spirit.  Taking your Hitler argument forward, again, Hitler was Baptized Catholic.  The exercise of ritual to accept Jesus as Lord and Savior is not a “rubber stamp.”  What is the motivation of the individual?  Do they truly mean it?  Are they just going through the motions?  Are they doing this to please a parent, a wife or husband?  Sorry to be blunt, but Catholic water Baptism is not like pixie dust and you are automatically indwelled by the Spirit.  Likewise, Christians who accept Christ as Savior and Lord by coming forward is also not like pixie dust and now they are “saved.”  Catholics who think they are now “locked in” by infant Baptism can be just as deceived as a Protestant who thinks he/she is saved by the exercise of coming forward to receive Jesus as Savior.  There are both Catholics and Protestants who live under deception.  The legacy of the Papacy and Magisterium really have nothing to do with your personal salavation just as the Protestant who keeps all his/her church rules has nothing to do it.

@Angelo:  [“Thank God I’m a Catholic!!!”]  Your 3 exclamation points indicates pride—which is sinful.  You are not saved by being Catholic.  You are saved only by the shed blood of Christ who paid for your sins.

wayne, Stop! you are wrong. Casting Crowns, I thought I’d give you a better explanation about the example of the woman you gave. Okay, she makes a good confession. After Mass she goes to the Grocery store, someone cuts her off and she goes into a rage. To begin with, Christ says, “Judge what is in no mans heart, for only God knows what is in his heart.” Only God knows whether she committed a venial sin, mortal sin, or no sin at all. In order for a sin to be mortal sin, 3 things are neccessary. 1# The sin must be grevious. 2# One must know it is grevious. 3#One must give full consent of the will. If any one of these is lacking there is NO mortal sin. Lets say I were a priest and that woman did come to confession for this instance. In accordance with Church teaching I would tell her that it certainly was not a mortal sin, maybe a venial sin or no sin at all. As a sudden burst of anger, SHE COULD NOT POSSIBLY HAVE GIVEN FULL CONSENT OF THE WILL. So that rules out mortal sin. Now lets say the woman, after Mass decided she was going to murder someone. 1# It would be a serious sin. 2# She knows it is serious. 3# She murders that person as she decided and intended to do, She gives full consent of the will. Then the sin is in fact a mortal sin. Should she die unrepentant, then she loses her soul. Or lets say she is sorry, asks God for forgiveness, intends to go to confession, but dies. Well her sin is forgiven, but unless her contrition is perfect, she will pay for her sin in purgatory.

Wayne - I cannot believe it is in the Code of Canon law that black people are sub-human.  But with that said, it WAS the US Supreme Court that a decision decreed that blacks in the US were somehow of less value as humans than whites, and it was legal to “own” slaves.

In years past, it was written in the legal descriptions of housing areas that black people could NOT live in certain neighborhoods.  Slavery was first abolished in England, an effort led by William Wilberforce, a Christian.  Later, slavery was abolished in the USA - also due to the conscience of Christians being tweaked, knowing in their hearts that it was wrong.

But it was always the Church that led the way with racial integration, and in the USA, if memory serves, it was the Knights of Columbus (Roman Catholic organization) that was among the first to integrate its members, at great risk, because it was NOT fashionable or acceptable then.  Of course, Catholic schools & Catholic hospitals always cared for everyone, regardless of race, creed or color, for that matter.

Just because the Vatican has it wrong on some things (some very important things, like the drivel about Indulgences) does not make Rome into a great satan.  The Roman Catholic Church, its leaders and its people in the pews, have done wonderful things for justice and mercy, throughout its existence.

I take offense at the Catholic Church being labeled “Murderous”.  To say that is to wear blinders, and only see what one chooses to see.

Since the US Supreme Court made such an unwise ruling about people of color years ago, and it was the cause of some unstable people taking the law into their own hands, causing the deaths of people (like Martin Luther King, and the 4 teenage choir girls, murdered for their color in their own church in Atlanta, Georgia, right after their Bible study class, 50 years ago- Sept. 15th) is the USA “murderous”?

If you are a citizen of this great country, are you “murderous” too?  Is there nothing good about the USA, in your opinion, because our country has a checkered past regarding race relations?

Angelo, what is “The Good News” to you?  Really, I’d love to know, if you even have good news.  How do you share The Gospel?

The Good News, the “Gospel” to me:
Due to Original Sin, everyone of us is *born dead* in our sin.  None of us seeks after God.  In fact, we are born separated from God.  He is holy.
We are sinners.  We cannot save ourselves.  We are not just sick, we are *dead* because the wages for sin is death.

But: THE GOOD NEWS OF THE GOSPEL OF THE LORD JESUS CHRIST!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

From the beginning of time, God the Father had a plan to save us, to reconcile us back to Himself.  In the fullness of time (about 2000 years ago), Jesus was born of the Virgin Mary, the perfect, spotless Son of God, who IS God, the second Person of the Holy Trinity, born for us *to die* for our sin.

His Sacrifice on the Cross was made on our behalf.  It satisfied God the Father’s *wrath* so that for anyonegiven the grace to ACCEPT it, he/she can be reconciled to the Father, through Jesus.  We were “bought with a price” = the price was the Blood of Jesus, and it is not just for Jews.  it is for EVERYONE.  Every race, creed, color.

But the Narrow Gate to the Father is Jesus. We surrender ourselves: our will, our minds, our lives, our belongings, our families, our finances, our everything, to a loving God. We “confess” Jesus is Lord of our lives.

Then we are “Justified” - a legal term.  Our debt has been paid in FULL.  Our status before God is: debt free!!!!!!!!!!!  We incur no more debt that can separate us from God forever.  We can grieve Him (the Holy Spirit, who resides in our hearts).  We can quench the Holy Spirit from acting in us.  But the Holy Spirit will never leave us.

Sanctified - meaning “set apart”, someone who is Justified is “set apart” for God.  When we know what it is that we have been saved from—eternal life SEPARATED from God the Father, we are so grateful, so happy, so in love with Jesus, the Father and the Holy Spirit, that we WANT to serve Him.

We WANT to tell others The Good News of the Gospel, that Jesus paid the price for our freedom, and so we can have everlasting life with Him, in Heaven = which is the final step: when we die, “GLORIFICATION”.

Like Jesus was glorified, and reunited with His Body, after Calvary, and at the Resurrection.  That’s my good news, Angelo - what’s yours?

Yes, the US is murderous. Did i murder anyone? No. Did you murder anyone? i dunno.
Say, sister terah, i consider killing every Albigensian, women and children, murderous. The CC has used torture and murder from the time of Constantine til now. The army of the Vatican, the Jesuits, do their dirty deeds under deep cover. Go on, tell me what a bunch of nice guys the jesuits are. Please tell me. The last official burning at the stake of a man who wouldnt worship Mary was in 1850 in Spain, i believe. So, the Knights of Columbus let some tokens in recently eh? How white of them. Everybody…give a big hand to the knights of columbus….hip hip hooray. Let me tell you, its the truth, i went to the official site of the Vatican, went to the section and paragragh that i was told to go see, and there it was. Negroes are subhuman. It went on to relegate women to a lower standing than men also. Granted, it was written at lest a thousand yrs ago, its still from the unerring pure and white holy ghost led catholic church. Ay how bout them Crusaders eh? Tossing heads of their victims over the jerusalem walls. Kind of a calling card from his majesty the Holy Father. All this to say..wake up my friends…the CC isnt what its telling you it is. You need to get salvation by calling on jesus for yourself.

Whats wrong with..“live and let live”? Why did the Vatican hire goons(Jesuits)to stamp out the reformation? What right does the catholic church have to tell others what to believe, and kill them if they wont go catholic. What kind of arrogant satanic people run the catholic cult of personality. Does the catholic church own the earth, and all that dwell upon it? When the rivers were clogged with the bodies of protestants during St Bartholomews Day Massacre, i understand the Pope danced for joy. There is , still, to this day, a painting in the vatican that commemorates this massacre. Deposit of faith. one true holy church. Chair of Peter.

Regarding the parable about the lady that sinned after having gone to confession, by getting angry:

If she confessed Jesus as Lord of her life, her legal status “justified” before God the Father, then she would be in Heaven.  She can grieve the Holy Spirit, and quench the Holy Spirit, but the Holy Spirit would never have left her.  She was “sealed” & “sanctified” by Him, a “good faith deposit” of what was to come, after her death: Eternity in Heaven, and glorification forever.

Regarding Adolph Hitler:
What was the fruit of his life?  Did he show any remorse about what he did?  What were the circumstances of his death?  Did he ever confess Jesus the Christ as his Lord and Savior, and DISPLAY the fruit of what he professed to believe, in his life?  Ever?

Here’s another example of what I mean:
Svetlana Stalin, a Christian woman, said when her father Josef died, it was awful to be in the room with him.  He was hurling his fist upwards towards Heaven, appearing as if he were fighting with someone.  Would that sound like he was repentant?  A child of God?  Surrendered to Jesus?
I think not.  Svetlana said she couldn’t watch for long, and she left the room, while he battled on his deathbed.

While none of us can “judge”, we are called upon to DISCERN the actions of others.  We are told to consider the FRUIT of what we see in people’s lives, to know whether or not they are on solid ground, and especially if they are our leaders.  We need to know who is leading us, or we can all go slipping downwards, off a cliff after them, as they lead the way to our destruction.

I learned something today about Jews.  In the days of Jesus, little Jewish boys from the ages of 6-10 went to Jewish School, where they had to memorize the first 5 books of their Bible (Hebrew Bible = our Old Testament).  When they knew those so well, from the ages of 10-13, they were taught by STUDY, the remaining 30 something books, including the Prophets writings.

That is why they were so well versed in knowing what was to happen in their history.  Think about Daniel? He knew what was to come, by having read the word.  If I’m not mistaken, even the Blessed Mother, in her Magnificat, quoted Old Testament verses.  Those people were prepared! 

How prepared are we?  What if we, like the lady in Casting Crown’s parable, met Jesus sooner rather than later, unexpectedly, by our clock?

Wayne, what’s with you and the Jesuits?  What’s your biggest beef?  You seem to paint them with a broad brush, and I can’t figure out why.  Must be something in your life, about which you can’t forgive.  Am I correct?

By the way, I too, am not very fond of Jesuits, because they appear to be brainy, with degrees that can fill a wall, but they (in my opinion) miss the obvious & simple teachings of the Gospel.

I know a man that thinks Jesuits walk on water & yet (in my opinion) they turned him from Christ.  He knows Bible stories about Christ’s life, but this man does not know Christ, at least from my perspective.

I hold Jesuits responsible for this man’s lack of faith.  They were his high school & university teachers.  He thinks they were great.  But the whole lot of them were obviously hopeless (and two have recently had accusations of abuse against them too, that comes as a shock to the man I know).  So what’s your story?

PS - it was the EARLY Knights of Columbus that deserves credit for racial integration in the USA.  And about the canon of law regarding race: I’d need to see that for myself before I believed it.  It may have been outside of the universal Church - a heresy perpetuated by a loose canon few.

Say sister Terah, what is this Marys Magnificat thing? Thanks in advance

Wayne - Mary’s Magnificat:

When the Angel Gabriel appeared to her, at the Annunication, to tell her she would bear a Son, Mary said (from memory, words in the Bible…)

“My soul doth magnify the Lord, my spirit rejoices in God my Savior, for He has dealt bountifully with his servant…”—etc. etc.

That may not be the exact quote.  But I think it was in these verses that Mary quoted parts of the Old Testament - Hebrew Bible.  Someone could correct me, if I’m wrong, but I believe Roman Catholics call that “Mary’s Magnificat”.

@Terrah:  You must be careful using the word “justified” because Joanp62 will say that’s a Protestant term like the Great Commission.  Never mind that St. Paul speaks freely of justification.  Also, she will go after you regarding “Surrendering to Jesus” and “Confessing Jesus as Lord and Savior”—more non Catholic terms.  Catholics do not surrender to anyone, but they must obey their Priests, Bishops and Pope.  If not, they are in sinful rebellion to Peter’s Chair.

Hey thanks Terah. So the CC has names for lots of things in the bible. Annunciation,magnificat. Well, so be it. Say when i quote the bible from memory, is that Waynes Magnificat?Hey, i like that. uh oh, i feel a magnificat comin on…..and here is the mind which hath wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains on which the woman sitteth.
Now on a more earthly note, the canon i read about the negroes was from the Vatican site. You listening? i said the official vatican site. Push the Canon button and it bring up the whole thing. Select a chapter and read away. It was in there. If any catholic who knows about it hears me ask if someone will tell me where it is, they wont. I find that catholics dummy up when it comes to the real ridiculous and blatantly false teachings. You Terah, are different. You own up to the failing of your religions past and present. You even stated your disbelief in indulgences. Bravo. Terah, if you know any catholic scholars, will you ask them where to find it? Then let me know. Ill take another search. i saw it yrs ago on some protestant site. I should have written it down on some favorite book of mine or on my guitar so i wouldnt have forgotten it. Rats.

When St. Elizabeth heard the greeting of Mary, St. John the Baptist leapt in her womb. St. Elizabeth was filled with the Holy Ghost and said to Mary, BLESSED art thou amongst Woman and BLESSED is the fruit of thy womb! JESUS! And who am I that the Mother of my GOD should come to me?? The Mother of the living the New Eve, said, My soul magnifies God My Father, My Son, My Spouse. My Spirit rejoices in him. He has regarded the humility of his Most Holy Mother. From now on those who have the Holy Ghost will call me BLESSED! (Scripture with literal translation).

              MAGNIFICAT!!!

Terah James, The Good News to me is all that the Catholic Church Teaches. The bad news is all who are inspired by the evil one to contradict Christ’s Catholic Church.

PS, i have had no dealings with Jesuits, that i know of. They work incognito. My beef with them is,.....its their mission in life to snuff out the refomation. That means protestans. the first order of those stooges was called the Dominicans. It was their sole job to eradicate the refomation. Dont believe me? Look it up. The whole history of the CC is nothin but attempt to snuff out anyone who wont follow their cult. Know why the CC is so rich? When they would accuse someone of heresy(what a joke)not only would they kill that person, they took his land, tossed the wife and kids on the street, if anyone sheltered or fed them, they too would come under attack. Lots of time, the choicest pieces of land just happened to have heretics living on them. The misery delt out by the catholic church has mounted to the heavens. Oh, but our church is pure and white. The CC hasnt got a moral leg to stand on.

wayne, You and your wild imagination? You know very well that no such thing is written or ever has been. True anti-catholicism, lie, lie, lie. The goal is to trick Catholics to believe lies. This is a Catholic site. Why not go to a Muslim site. And by the way give them your address.

So Terah and wayne join forces. Thank God the Holy Father is granting a Plenary Indulgence. Remember, No attachment to sin, Sacramental Confession, Holy Communion and a prayer for the Holy Father, and the act prescribed. Try to gain as many as possible, you can share them with the Holy Souls.

brother Angelo, it sounds bad and unbelievable. But i saw it with my own 2 eyes. Im not the kind of guy who makes things up. I have no reason to lie to you. Im going to try to find the canon.
Stay tuned for more bad news.

wayne, with alot of the things you have said, I’m sorry but I do not believe you. Which Canon did you read this in, the Roman Canon or Canon Law, if Canon Law, which Code?

Angelo, of course, I will pray for you.
Casting Crowns. I was indeed saying there is no salvation outside the Catholic Church, but not in the sense that you must be a practicing Catholic to go to heaven. That is not true. That is the misconception Wayne has. He thinks we are saying only practicing Catholics can be saved.  In fact the Catholic Church agrees there is possible salvation for people who never practice the Catholic faith, but this salvation is always effected through the mediation of Jesus Christ and His Church. The ideal is clearly becoming Catholic, but in a not-so-perfect world many souls who meet Christ at the judgment will not have had the advantage of a Catholic upbringing. Some may have that advantage but were so mistreated by their parents, they can’t accept it. Some have invincible prejudice. God will sort it out in the end.
Casting Crowns please prayerfully read this document: Dominus Jesus http://www.vatican.va/roman_curia/congregations/cfaith/documents/rc_con_cfaith_doc_20000806_dominus-iesus_en.html

Talking about our separated brethren this document says:  “Therefore, these separated Churches and communities as such, though we believe they suffer from defects, have by no means been deprived of significance and importance in the mystery of salvation. For the spirit of Christ has not refrained from using them as a MEANS OF SALVATION which DERIVE THEIR EFFICACY FROM THE VERY FULLNESS OF GRACE AND TRUTH ENTRUSTED TO THE CATHOLIC CHURCH.”

That is without the Catholic Church there is no salvation in the other churches. Frank Duff, the founder of the Legion of Mary, liked to explain it this way: The Protestant Churches are the moon and the Catholic Church is the sun. If the light of the sun is extinguished, there is no moonlight, is there? So we see as the local Church in the United States has suffered major failings in her laity and leadership, so have the Protestant Churches.

This document issued by the CONGREGATION FOR THE DOCTRINE OF THE FAITH, i.e. The Catholic Church, says this is a problem: Belief in a One and Triune God is often identified as equivalent or equal to belief in other religions. “This is one of the reasons why the differences between Christianity and the other religions tend to be reduced at times to the point of disappearance.”
But the Catholic Church doesn’t believe in this: “Thus, the recent Magisterium of the Church has firmly and clearly recalled the truth of a single divine economy: “The Spirit’s presence and activity affect not only individuals but also society and history, peoples, cultures and religions… The Risen Christ ‘is now at work in human hearts through the strength of his Spirit’... Again, it is the Spirit who sows the ‘seeds of the word’ present in various customs and cultures, preparing them for full maturity in Christ”.  Many lower caste Hindus have become Christian because in Hinduism, they are regarded as less than human. In Catholicism, they are a child of God. So we see the Holy Spirit using the tenants of Hinduism to prepare a people for “full maturity in Christ.”

This means a Shinto woman can go to a Shinto Shrine and God the Holy Spirit will come down to meet her personally.  Wayne can have an experience of Jesus Christ outside the Catholic Church. (Will Wayne be saved by that experience, that’s up to Wayne. Remember Wayne, St. John the Baptist came preaching the repentance of our sins. No pain, no gain.)

Further the document says this work of the Holy Spirit in different cultures and peoples is a preparation for the GOSPEL.  “Whatever the Spirit brings about in human hearts and in the history of peoples, in cultures and religions, serves as a preparation for the Gospel and can only be understood in reference to Christ, the Word who took flesh by the power of the Spirit ‘so that as perfectly human he would save all human beings and sum up all things’”.40“The Church believes that Christ, who died and was raised for the sake of all (cf. 2 Cor 5:15) can, through his Spirit, give man the light and the strength to be able to respond to his highest calling, nor is there any other name under heaven given among men by which they can be saved (cf. Acts 4:12). The Church likewise believes that the key, the centre, and the purpose of the whole of man’s history is to be found in its Lord and Master”.
JESUS CHRIST IS THE GOAL OF HUMAN HISTORY:  “In this sense, one can and must say that Jesus Christ has a significance and a value for the human race and its history, which are unique and singular, proper to him alone, exclusive, universal, and absolute. Jesus is, in fact, the Word of God made man for the salvation of all. In expressing this consciousness of faith, the Second Vatican Council teaches: “The Word of God, through whom all things were made, was made flesh, so that as perfect man he could save all men and sum up all things in himself. The Lord is the goal of human history, the focal point of the desires of history and civilization, the centre of mankind, the joy of all hearts, and the fulfilment of all aspirations. It is he whom the Father raised from the dead, exalted and placed at his right hand, constituting him judge of the living and the dead”.45 “It is precisely this uniqueness of Christ which gives him an absolute and universal significance whereby, while belonging to history, he remains history’s centre and goal: ‘I am the Alpha and the Omega, the first and the last, the beginning and the end’ (Rev 22:13)”.16.

So the point is there is no salvation outside Jesus Christ. That’s what I said. If a Shinto is saved, it is through Jesus Christ, not through Shintoism.

I also said When the Church speaks, Christ speaks. They are one. They are one because of the promises Jesus made, “I will be with you until the end of time.” 

Here’s how the document put it:  “The Lord Jesus, the only Saviour, did not only establish a simple community of disciples, but constituted the Church as a salvific mystery: he himself IS IN THE CHURCH AND THE CHURCH IS IN HIM (cf. Jn 15:1ff.; Gal 3:28; Eph 4:15-16; Acts 9:5).  THEREFORE, THE FULLNESS OF CHRIST’S SALVIFIC MYSTERY BELONGS TO THE CHURCH, INSEPARABLY UNITED TO HER LORD. 

Wayne, notice all the Bible quotes in this Church document. We are basing this truth on the Scripture and the Oral Tradition of the Church which Jesus Christ Himself handed to his 12 apostles.

“Indeed, Jesus Christ continues his presence and his work of salvation in the Church and by means of the Church (cf. Col 1:24-27),47 which is his body (cf. 1 Cor 12:12-13, 27; Col 1:18).48 And thus, just as the head and members of a living body, though not identical, are inseparable, so too Christ and the Church can neither be confused nor separated, and constitute a single “whole Christ”.49 This same inseparability is also expressed in the New Testament by the analogy of the Church as the Bride of Christ (cf. 2 Cor 11:2; Eph 5:25-29; Rev 21:2,9).50

It goes on to say that the Church is not some nebulous concept that every Christian belongs to. “The Catholic faithful are required to profess that there is an historical continuity — rooted in the apostolic succession53 — between the Church founded by Christ and the Catholic Church: “This is the single Church of Christ… which our Saviour, after his resurrection, entrusted to Peter’s pastoral care (cf. Jn 21:17), commissioning him and the other Apostles to extend and rule her (cf. Mt 28:18ff.), erected for all ages as ‘the pillar and mainstay of the truth’ (1 Tim 3:15). This Church, constituted and organized as a society in the present world, subsists in [subsistit in] the Catholic Church, governed by the Successor of Peter and by the Bishops in communion with him”.

I remember the controversy when this document was released during the time of Pope John Paul II. The press couldn’t understand it. They thought it said only practicing Catholics can go to heaven. It does say there is no salvation outside Jesus Christ and His Church, the Catholic Church. But it means that all are saved through the Catholic Church regardless of whether you are Catholic or not. The New Catholic Catechism clearly talks about different kinds of Baptism, including Baptism by desire and by blood. Now I infinitely prefer the option of Baptism in the Catholic Church. (Although the document states that Baptism in a Protestant setting does incorporate an individual into the Body of Christ, the Church)  Baptism by Desire can you leave in doubt at the end of your life. Baptism by Blood sounds painful. But when you read the paragraphs about these other Baptisms, you begin to understand that the Catholic Church does not preclude a little guy in the woods, who never heard the tenants of Christianity, from going to heaven. BUT DOES THAT MEAN WAYNE, YOU SHOULD RELAX AND NEVER LOOK INTO THE CHURCH THAT JESUS CHRIST FOUNDED (hint: the Catholic Church)? Eternity is a very long time. I understand the clock in hell constantly recites this refrain: “FOREVER, FOREVER, FOREVER, FOREVER…” For myself, I’d rather find the truth now and follow it. Ideas have consequences. Look at Bombay India: Fat sleek cows well loved and cared for on the streets, while men lay in the streets with worms in their skin starving to death.” The Hindus believe the cows are gods, and the Brahman class, which is achieved by birth to a certain family, is the next step before becoming a cow in the next life. My cousin, who is an anesthesiologist, went to India and had a Brahman as his tour guide. He was so impressed by the man, he thought of becoming Hindu. I said to my cousin, “He is acting that way so he can become a cow in the next life, and absolutely nothing in the life after that.” That took the shine out of Hinduism.
Now the people that are feeding you facts about the Catholic Church are gravely mistaken. It is well worth your time to research the Catholic faith. Why be so trusting of these fallacious and malicious sources? Hatred for Catholicism is not a Christian attitude. It has more in common with the thinking of the guy in the red tights and two horns on his head.  Turn to Jesus Christ and ask Him to show you the truth. I am so happy for your experience of Him. If you find yourself reluctant to trust Jesus Himself,  be careful because holding on to these fallacious sources of information could be a form of grabbing an idol. We all do it. I do it. Idols are very comforting. Maybe someone has a bad experience with a Catholic, and believing ill of the Church helps them identify that person as wrong for hurting them. If you have been hurt by a Catholic I sincerely apologize.  And I am praying for your healing. And I hope you find friends here at the Catholic Register site. God bless you.

Regarding the woman who blasphemed after Sunday Mass. Yes, very likely a venial sin. But it really is kinda of a question that a Pharisee or a Scribe would come up with in Jesus’ time. The focus should not be on the woman who sinned but on God’s plan. I wish you all could read the Diary of St. Faustina. Jesus showed her how God is in charge and He doesn’t hold back at the end of any soul’s life. He pours on the grace in the last moments trying to get that repentance so the person will go to heaven not hell.  Some years ago my son and I were driving to Disneyland, and I was saying the Chaplet of Divine Mercy for all in the world who would die that day. Catholics believe that if you pray this prayer for anyone, they will receive all the graces necessary for salvation before they die. We got to the park, and tried to ride the Train Roller Coaster, but it was closed, and we were told there was a malfunction an hour before, it had stopped suddenly and the 22-year-old man in the first seat was killed. I thought, “Oh God, why didn’t I have a chance to pray for him?” God laughed at me, and said, “You did, honey, you said the chaplet.” ( I was saying it about the time the man was killed) So I knew he had everything he needed at the end even with an unexpected death. I have a friend, who had six kids. One Christmas she was in the hospital and the kids were home alone, and she called home, and no one answered. She sent her friend to look for them in the house. It was Christmas Eve, and the friend reported the door was open, the lights were on, but there were no six kids. She was terrified. She prayed. She said the Mother of Jesus came to her and laid her mantle over her, and told her, “I will always look after your children.”  Two of those six kids are dead. One had become a practicing homosexual and left the faith, but before he died he repented and received all the Catholic sacraments, and was restored to the grace of God. The other that died, a daughter, was driving home on a mountain road from an assignation with her lover when she was killed, so the conclusion that Mary took care of her might have been in doubt. But three days before the girl’s death her mother had a vision: she was in the front seat of the car with her daughter driving on a mountain road, and she could see an oncoming car coming directly at her. God made her forget the vision until the knock on the door: Your daughter is dead. Then she recalled it, and the fact that her daughter had those precious seconds to repent before she died. All of us who knew this woman begged her to adopt us as her spiritual children so we could get Mary’s mantle protection too!

God bless you. Susan Fox http://christsfaithfulwitness.blogspot.com Wayne I would welcome your comments on my blog.

Sister Susan, thank you for presenting your case clearly.Well, no catholics have hurt me. Thats not why i try to expose catholicism for what it is. Ive never told anyone this befor, but, a very good friend that i grew up knowing, told me these things about the CC. Oh, not all of them, just a few. I was able to find the rest on my own. He was catholic, born and raised. Smart guy. He told me about subliminal advetising, which i didnt believe till i went home and looked in the magazines for myself.He was shattering my perfect world of disneyland and cartoons on saturday morning. there are dark satanic forces working under what we see. what we see is not what it is. I used to go to christmas eve mass with my friends who lived across the street. I thought catholic church was more godly than protestant churches. My family was home having a nice time xmas eve but i wanted more. It was supposed the eve of the birth of our Lord. i was 14 and 15 yrs old at the time. God decided to reach down and grab me a few yrs later.
catholics tell me to go read all these catholic writings and then i will understand how wonderful that cult of personality is. Of course the catholic church is going to talk wonderful about itself. Forget the talk. The crusades, the long running inquisition, bartholomews day massacre, the cathars, the forced catholicism of the american(south) indians, for which the Pope apologized for. Forget the talk. Its their fruits we shall know them by. Uh, lets see…..Jesus said, ..by what they say ye shall know them. ha ha. The catholic church can talk till kingdom come. I toured europe as a teen. Ive been to a few inquisition torture chambers. i almost threrw up in the first one i went to. I ran out and tried to keep my lunch in my stomach. I was 14 going on 15. the guide was saying that these things were used on people. I thought it was some kind of movie set, since i was raised around hollywood and actors. Let me tell you , it didnt take long. I looked at these things wondering..what the hell? A mask with spikes that when closed would go thru the eyes. A rack to stretch people. Other iron spike thingys to pierce people, a cage to just fit the body with spikes ready to stab the poor bible believer.It was just about 3 or 4 minutes befor i had to run out befor vomiting. They did these things to people. So read your catechism and contemplate the mysteries of gods true holy church. Be glad you didnt watch the torture and the blood and guts filled floors of the business end of the catholic church

Dear Wayne,
The only thing this proves is the Gospel is not being lived in and outside the Church. In the context of 2,000 years of history, the Catholic Church put an end to infanticide, the mistreatment of women, murder of the elderly, slavery, created the concept of caring for the sick instead of letting them die. Romans were some of the most brutal people who ever lived, but the Catholic Church converted Rome and as a result they stopped killing their own infants, torturing people in the circuses and enslaving people. The Aztecs were murdering 100,000 people in one weekend —six-minute murders, march up the pyramid, rip out their heart, throw the body over the side, all part of a religion of cannibalism, homosexuality, ritual sacrifice. But the Catholic Church came to Mexico and they don’t do that anymore do they? Read about the North American martyrs. St. Isaac Jogues went and lived among the Mohawks, Hurons and Iroquois. They tortured him and removed his thumbs, which means he had to go back to Europe and get permission to say Mass without thumbs. He didn’t have to return to this country, but he did and he was killed. I heard the Indians admired him so much they wanted to eat his heart so they could get his strength. Actually, it was love. No one would return to such people without love.

The Jesuits came to South America, and 200 years later the Indians there still speak of the wonderful villages they set up where they taught the faith and various crafts. The Indians were not persecuted in these villages because the white men were not allowed in. But some stupid monarch in Europe took the land away from the Jesuits and gave it to their friends. Government Corruption.

The Spanish Inquisition is called “Spanish” because it was conducted by the government of Spain, not the Catholic papacy. Many people of that time happened to “be” Catholic. That’s why you were probably confused as to who did the torturing.

Now in our time, when the values of the Catholic Church are being marginalized in our society, euthanasia was promoted in the state of Oregon by Protestant evangelicals who   hated the Catholic Church. They promoted euthanasia simply because Catholics opposed it. Now sick people are given drugs to end their life instead of medical treatment! That is not mercy that is punishment.

The Catholic Church was ignored on the issue of abortion: 53 million people have been murdered in the United States alone since 1973 by abortion. 53 million people will never go to grade school, graduate from college, never fall in love, and marry. 53 million people will not buy a car, a house, clothes. No wonder the housing market is in trouble.

Until 1930 every Christian religion spoke out against contraception. Today, only the Catholic Church does, and contraception has evolved into a form of abortion. Artificial contraception does not stop conception, it stops the living child from being implanted in the mother’s womb so it is killed.
This is a vile practice.

I can understand your attachment to your friend who was an ex-Catholic, but he himself may have been very confused. Go back to Christmas when you were 14 and 15 years old, that is when Jesus was pulling you in the right direction. You said you thought the Catholic Church was more godly than Protestant Churches, and you, you Wayne, you wanted more! Remember that time. That’s when Jesus was grabbing you. The Catholic Church—its people—are not more godly than other people in other Churches, but in that Christmas Eve Mass is the Real Presence of Jesus in the Eucharist. Jesus was really there and He was calling you, Wayne. We are not asking you to read nice things about what individual Catholics have done. By reading about Catholicism, we are asking you to read what Jesus has done, what Jesus has accomplished through the Church Jesus founded, and to see Jesus—in the sacraments He has instituted—can make you Wayne holy, like it says in the Bible, “holy like my heavenly Father.” Holy means blessed. Blessed means happy. We want you to be happy. Are you happy now? Ask Jesus, pray to Jesus, and try to hear where He is calling you now. God bless you. Susan Fox
P.S. If you’d like to see my family and I, we have a You Tube video on Psalm 84. We had a nest of swallows on our apartment patio ledge this summer and I took 500 pictures and then made a movie out it. My son wrote some of the music (not all). Our family briefly appears at the beginning of the movie, which basically shows the swallow family and their interactions. Psalm 84 is the one that talks about how even the swallow finds a nest by your altars, O Lord Our God.
Go to www.youtube.com and type in “Testis Fidelis” in the search box. That’s the name of my channel. It’s Latin for Faithful Witness, which is one of the titles given to Jesus in the Book of Revelation.  My picture comes up. You click on it and the movies starts playing. Turn up the volume. It’s only 9 minutes long.

Gee sister Susan, you sure you want me to visit your site?

My blessed sister Susan. i love you in the Lord and me also. For some reason im blocked from posting on your site. Im havinf probs with the whole system. Virus most likely. There are more idolater sites i cant get into. Its not just yours. Maybe you can help me figure this out. Thanks Susan

Catholic answers has once again banned me for bringing up the inquisition. The dirty filthy cult doesent like people saying the truth on their sites.

In thanksgiving for all the truth, beauty, joy and grace contained, protected and proclaimed within our Church and Catholicism for some 2000 years; in honor of our Holy Father, the Year of Faith, the second Vatican Council, and Indulgences I offer this: 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GBaHPND2QJg

sISTERSUSAN, YOU Are a breath of fresh air. You made me laugh big time.i can see your honesty. The incas dont scrifice people anymore because of the work of the beautiful Jesuits. Oh how joyous. HAHAHa.Thats cause they killed them all. There are no more Incas. Those filty priests and Jesuits killed the parents and raised the children as catholics, thats how south america became catholic. Pope Johnpaul apologized for that. Why would he apologize if it wasnt true? The holy ghost leads the catholic church. Well, the holy ghost likes taking iron claws and tearing breasts off of heretic women, then impaling them on iron spikes. God used Napoleon to put an end to the catholic church reign of terror. Oh, but our church is pure and white. You had to be careful not to slip and fall on all the blood and guts on the floor of the torture chambers.
The priests would make sure the dungeons were far enough below ground to keep the screams from being heard. Oh, but you must read the catechism, then you will love the catholic church. When the catholic church took over Rome, the torture and murder made pagan rome seem like a cake walk. The CC took torture to new heights. There is nothing godly about the CC. Only in the catechism is the CC godly. its fruits are soaked in blood and guts, of people who wont bow to the child molester Pope. To be fair, the early popes liked women and were constantly raping the faithful ones who wanderd into the Vatican.

Aye Dismas, wheres the grace in burning bible believers to death? Then selling them get out of hell tickets.

In thanksgiving for all the truth, beauty, joy and grace contained, protected and proclaimed within our Church and Catholicism for some 2000 years; in honor of our Holy Father, the Year of Faith, the second Vatican Council, and Indulgences I offer this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GBaHPND2QJg

Dear Wayne,
AT the bottom of each article there is the words: 2 comments, or the words No comments. You click on that, and it gives you a box you can write your comment, sign yourself as anonymous so you email address doesn’t come up. And use your first name Wayne. Now it won’t post immediately, I have to go in and publish it, but it will eventually. Re: your comments on the Catholic Church. Wayne did you pray to Jesus before you wrote those comments. I don’t want to hear from you unless you talk to Jesus first. God bless you. Susan http://christsfaithfulwitness.blogspot.com

Dismas,
That was lovely.Thank you. Susan Fox http://christsfaithfulwitness.blogspot.com

Someone mentioned that we are not to surrender to God, but are to obey our priests, bishops, and pope.  Interesting.  As a catholic contemplative mystic my life is enveloped in the God that I love, trust, and surrender to His Presence.  I’m trying to figure out what all the hierarchy you mentioned could do for me that God hasn’t already done.  You comment is interesting and seems to lacks critical thinking.

FROM THE U.S. CONFERENCE OF CATHOLIC BISHOPS ONLINE BIBLE WEBSITE - THE ACTUAL VERSES http://www.usccb.org/bible/books-of-the-bible/

Luke Chapter 1: verses 39-45:
“Mary Visits Elizabeth”

39 During those days Mary set out and traveled to the hill country in haste to a town of Judah,
40 where she entered the house of Zechariah and greeted Elizabeth.
41 When Elizabeth heard Mary’s greeting, the infant leaped in her womb, and Elizabeth, filled with the holy Spirit,
42 cried out in a loud voice and said, “Most blessed are you among women, and blessed is the fruit of your womb.
43 And how does this happen to me, that the mother of my Lord should come to me?
44 For at the moment the sound of your greeting reached my ears, the infant in my womb leaped for joy.
45 Blessed are you who believed that what was spoken to you by the Lord would be fulfilled.”

*********************************************
Angelo-you wrote: Posted by Angelo on Friday, Oct 12, 2012 7:39 PM (EST):
“When St. Elizabeth heard the greeting of Mary, St. John the Baptist leapt in her womb. St. Elizabeth was filled with the Holy Ghost and said to Mary, BLESSED art thou amongst Woman and BLESSED is the fruit of thy womb! JESUS! And who am I that the Mother of my GOD should come to me?? The Mother of the living the New Eve, said, My soul magnifies God My Father, My Son, My Spouse. My Spirit rejoices in him. He has regarded the humility of his Most Holy Mother. From now on those who have the Holy Ghost will call me BLESSED! (Scripture with literal translation).”
**********************************************

What you wrote is in ERROR.  Please allow me to point out the following:
1- Neither Elizabeth (nor Mary herself) identified Mary as “The Mother of the living and the New Eve.”
2- Mary does NOT call God her “Father, her Son or her Spouse.”
3- Mary does NOT refer to herself as “his Most Holy Mother”.
4- Mary does NOT say those who “have the Holy Ghost will call me BLESSED!”
**********************************************

Below is what Mary really said, from the USCCB online Bible:
Luke Chapter 1: verse 46-55”
Called “The Canticle of Mary”

46 And Mary said:* “My soul proclaims the greatness of the Lord;
47 my spirit rejoices in God my savior.
48 For he has looked upon his handmaid’s lowliness; behold, from now on will all ages call me blessed.
49 The Mighty One has done great things for me, and holy is his name.
50 His mercy is from age to age to those who fear him.
51 He has shown might with his arm, dispersed the arrogant of mind and heart.
52 He has thrown down the rulers from their thrones but lifted up the lowly.
53 The hungry he has filled with good things; the rich he has sent away empty.
54 He has helped Israel his servant, remembering his mercy,
55 according to his promise to our fathers, to Abraham and to his descendants forever.”
******************************************************
When I see something posing as “Scripture”, I always compare it to the USCCB official Catholic Bible site.  Angelo - you need to read OFFICIAL Bibles for a change.  I have no idea where you are getting your (mis)information, such as the quote above.  But if you are teaching others, you’d best give them truths that can be verified.

It would behoove YOU to familiarize yourself with the Bible, because while I was able to give you a reason for *my* faith, and for what I believe, the Good News, the Gospel of the Lord Jesus Christ, and of His Father, in whose family I am adopted, you wrote to me that your good news is this:

Posted by Angelo on Friday, Oct 12, 2012 7:43 PM (EST):
“Terah James,The Good News to me is all that the Catholic Church Teaches. The bad news is all who are inspired by the evil one to contradict Christ’s Catholic Church.”

Angelo:
What is “all that the Catholic Church Teaches?”  Last May, it was reported that documents from Vatican II have not been sorted yet, and many are lost.  It’s been 50 years since the council happened!  http://chiesa.espresso.repubblica.it/articolo/1350239?eng=y

By your standard of measure of “all that the Catholic Church Teaches”, one can assume THOSE lost documents are also to be part of the Catholic repertoire of beliefs.  Right?

Angelo, we are to give a reason for our faith as Christians, in season and out of season.  We need to know what we believe now.  This has eternal importance.

Angelo - read your Bible, please!  Go to the USCCB online Bible site, and read it there, for your convenience, and so that you can learn not my truth, your truth, or someone else’s truth, but rather, God’s Truth!  Read the Good News of the Gospel of the Lord Jesus the Christ. Surrender, to God.

@Angelo:  From the USCCB and the Catholic Bible:  “Below is what Mary really said, from the USCCB online Bible:
Luke Chapter 1: verse 46-55”
Called “The Canticle of Mary”
46 And Mary said:* “My soul proclaims the greatness of the Lord;
47 “my spirit rejoices in God my savior.”  ————Mary refers to God “as her Savior.”  Not “A” savior but “HER” savior.  Only those who are sinners require salvation from a savior.  Thus Mary declares her own need to be “saved” from her sins.  This does not diminish her virgin birth nor her role mother of the incarnate Messiah.  It does, however, show how the church has invented theological teaching that Mary was without sin like every other human who has ever lived.  There is nothing wrong with that.

Terah James and Casting Crowns, If you noticed, I placed no quotation marks anywhere. At the end in parenthesis I wrote (scripture with literal translation), What I was doing was spelling it out for those of you who reject Christ’s Church. It was not meant to be the literal words from scripture. Mary the Mother of God indeed calls God her savior, God after all did create her, and created her the most perfect of all his creation. The Mother of God did not need salvation as we do, we are sinners, She never sinned. But you open up a good point, if Mary calls God her savior, before Christ was even born. Then Mary was saved before Christ died for us sinners. As for it being the “Canticle of Mary”, Canticle comes from the Latin which means song. The Church refers to Mary’s Canticle as the “Magnificat” as it is the first word in Latin of Our Lady’s Canticle. Latin is the official language of the Church. Christ’s Church has a Holy Name for all that is Holy. The translation of the Magnificat that you mention is from the New American Bible. The most deplorable of all Catholic Translations. Many have called on the Bishops to allow better translations. We have been heard, the Ignatius translation has been taken into consideration. You both went to trouble for nothing. Just another Cheap protestant shot.

Richard of the Desert, Sorry, but claiming yourself a “catholic contemplative mystic” sounds ludicrous. You should first find out what that actually means. If you were really a mystic you would be defending the Holy Father and the teachings of the Church. You would be trying to gain all the Indulgences you can and defending the Doctrine of Indulgences. Thats what this thread is really about.

The “Doctrine of Indulgences” was invented as a money maker.  Simply that and nothing more.

Terah James and Casting Crowns, I can’t stop thinking of how Mary was saved before Christ was born, before he died on the Cross for sinners. Now its clearer to me why the Church teaches that Mary did not need salvation as us sinners do. She was sinless, she was saved at her Conception. She is the Immaculate Conception. Oh Mary Conceived without sin, pray for us who have recourse to thee! In trying to call God’s Mother a sinner as yourselves and myself, you instead opened up a biblical mystery for me. Thank you both and God Bless!

Richard of the Desert, And you call yourself a “catholic contemplative mystic”. You need to contemplate more on the teachings of the Catholic Church before calling yourself a mystic.

@Angelo:  [“She was sinless, she was saved at her Conception. She is the Immaculate Conception.”]  Angelo,  that’s what you have been taught.  However, it was the *Messiah* —Christ who was conceived in the immaculate —to wit:  “How can this be since I do not know man?” —Mary told the angel Gabriel.  The conception was by the Holy Spirit.  Mary did not have human intercourse.  This has nothing to do with Mary being in a sinless state.  Also, there is no evidence she remained a virgin after the birth of Messiah.  Remaining a perpetual virgin has nothing to do with her role in salvation history.

Casting Crowns, Don’t ruin this great moment. You yourself proclaim that Mary Most Holy was saved before Christ was even born. She says that God is her savior, you yourself pointed it out in sacred scripture. Its in the Bible!

Angelo:  I never said that.  Jesus still had to pay for all sin on the cross,—yours, mine and Mary’s.  Peter too recognized Jesus as “the Christ” (Messiah) at Caesarea Philippi knowing He was the Savior foretold in Scripture.  Thus He was Peter’s Savior.  Nonetheless, Jesus still needed to go to the cross for Peter’s sins just as Mary’s.

Richard of the Desert:If money is the purpose of this indulgence why doesn’t the Church get any money from it? To fulfill the requirements and gain the benefits of a plenary indulgence is a private matter between you and God. The Church isn’t paid anything. They simply tell you the conditions, which by the way require personal conversion: Confession, firm purpose of amendment, detachment from all sin and Holy Communion. I think the reason why many people don’t care for indulgences is because they don’t want to change their heart.  No pain, no gain. God bless you. Susan Fox

Angelo, you bring up a good point.  Mary calls God her savior, before Christ was even born. So Mary was saved before Christ died for any sinner, even Abraham.  Christ died for US, before we were even born, and He died, the just for the unjust, and while we were still sinners.

John the Baptist was called the greatest person ever born; yet, the least in the Kingdom of God (New Testament) is greater than John, according to Jesus.  John was also filled with the Holy Spirit, from birth, but that does not mean John the Baptist never sinned.

The Bible says, “There is none righteous, no not one.”  It does not say, “There is none righteous… except for Mary.” But then, perhaps your Ignatian translation DOES say that.  I intend to look up the Magnificat in the Ignatian translation and see if it’s how you described it to be: God, my “Spouse”.  Something tells me it’s not translated like that.

Angelo wrote: “The translation of the Magnificat that you mention is from the New American Bible. The most deplorable of all Catholic Translations. Many have called on the Bishops to allow better translations. We have been heard, the Ignatius translation has been taken into consideration. You both went to trouble for nothing. Just another Cheap protestant shot.”

Angelo -
Please, if you have a copy of this Ignatius translation, will you do us the courtesy of copy and pasting the verses, as I did with the USCCB New American translation version, the ones to which you object?

I tried to find the Ignatius translation online.  While one can order study guides, it appears as if Ignatius Press merely wants to sell products, and not really teach the faith.  I get no where trying to see Luke Chapter One, online.

This is the first time ever that I was not able to get a simple Bible verse.  Frankly, I cannot imagine it would have wording any different than what is in the New American translation, at least the words, “God, my Spouse”, ought NOT to be in there.  But one never knows.  I am in a weekly Bible study at a Catholic church where non-Catholic spouses join us, and we are always reading the same message, but from all different translations. 

Angelo, I strongly object to your calling my direct quote of the USCCB online Bible verse, “Just another cheap Protestant shot.”  I take great effort to use Catholic Bibles (and I have the Revised Standard Edition in hard copy print myself too), and I would have thought the Bishop’s approved version would be good enough for you.  But I’m beginning to wonder why YOU, Angelo, are not your own pope.  And why YOU don’t just start your own religion.  You reject almost everything that is Roman Catholic, at least in recent history. 

Trying to communicate with you is indicative of how it is becoming impossible to have an adult conversation with Catholics whose minds and limited spiritual knowledge is stuck in the 3rd grade, holding on for dear life to teaching drummed into them by some well-meaning nun or parent.  No thinking is allowed.  Only rote memory skills are necessary.  Cut and paste anything, from any source.  Discernment is not required.

If anything disagrees with ones agenda, call it “Just another cheap Protestant shot”, even if it’s the United States Bishop’s own approved Bible.  This is a most discouraging development, Angelo.  I was trying to dialog with you, on a reasonable, educated and adult level. Will that be possible?

Where can we find the Ignatian translation of Luke Chapter one, the visit with Elizabeth and Mary’s Magnificat?  We need to compare it with the New American version that I supplied.  Thank you.

As an aside to everyone: yesterday, I was lamenting to my life-long Catholic friend that it is increasingly difficult to have an adult conversation with fellow Catholics.  Either they do not care about their faith enough to dialog or learn about it, or they talk about things that are not in the Bible, and try to defend what it is they believe, based on unsound data, and even just long-held belief in legends.

Yesterday morning, after Mass, I was talking with two elderly Knights of Columbus men, both very kind and conservative, and yet, neither really understands majorly important matters of the faith.  For instance, both said it “wouldn’t matter” to them, if Jesus were married, and if the report of the papyrus were proven true, it would “be okay” with them.

I explained that it would be of MAJOR importance, because on the Road to Emmaus, the Risen Jesus spoke of the Messiah’s mission.  It was not to get married.  The Old Testament prophets told us what to look for, in the Messiah.  If Jesus were married, it would mean He was not God.  It’s huge.

My second concern while talking with them is they said the Bible is “just another book written by men.”  I explained the real Author is the Holy Spirit, and much like 40 sailboats on the high seas, all 40 different men kept their own personalities, but they were LED by the Power of the Holy Spirit, like one wind would power those sail boats.

I told them there are NOT contradictions in the Bible - and each of the 40 writers wrote from his own perspective.  Like one Knight of Columbus was facing the kitchen, where donuts were being cut in half; the other was facing the dining hall, where people were walking by.  If each wrote what they saw, they’d both write two different things, but it would be what was happening, and an accurate picture of the whole scene.

My Catholic friend shared something with me that both surprised me, and in a way, it gave me some hope.  She said yesterday was the first time she did what she knew many, many other Catholics are doing: going to Mass first thing in the morning, and then later going to a non-Catholic, Bible-believing & teaching, Full-Gospel expository preaching church after, to learn the Bible.

I had no idea so many Catholics are doing that.  But she told me they are.  These are people that love being Catholic, and the reverence of the Catholic worship.  They are even bringing their families to Mass.  But they have given up on having priests that know the Bible enough to where they can preach and teach The Gospel.  They want their children to GROW UP and learn the Bible, not believe in just legends. 

After my last conversation with the nice, elderly Knights of Columbus, and even on this blog, with Angelo (who does not supply facts, and who places such little value on the Bible) I plan to follow my friend this Sunday, and go to the 9AM Mass, and then go learn sound Bible-based teaching at 11AM, at another church.  Praise be to God, there is hope!
My friend said there is adult conversation about the faith not only with other pastors, but with the congregation too!!!!!!!!!!!!

Casting Crowns and Terah James, How could it be possible to have a discussion on the Catholic Faith when both of you reject it. You both are using “Sola Scriptura” which has long been condemned by the Church. The Church uses both Scripture and Tradition. Both of you have blatantly rejected Tradition. A Catholic Church with sola scriptura is not the Catholic Church. The Church in the past 2000 years has made Dogmatic declarations which we Catholics must believe under pain of mortal sin. But both of you have trashed these Dogmatic declarations. For example the Church has always held the Dogma of the Immaculate Conception of the Blessed Virgin Mary. It was defined as a Dogma in 1854 by Bl. Pius lX. Mary was was conceived without Original Sin. What is meant by original sin? When God created Adam and Eve, he created them in original holiness and original justice. After the fall they lost this and it was passed on to all their descendants. Mary by God’s plan in the creation of the “Woman”, was conceived with original holiness and original justice. She was not affected by Adam & Eves original sin. Like our first parents, Mary was conceived, born, lived and continues to live in original Holiness and Justice. This is the infallible teaching of the Church. And yet you both continue to scramble looking for ways to decalre Mary a sinner, through scripture. You cannot prove your point that Mary was a sinner without being outside the Church. Your scriptural arguments are private interpretaion that hold no water. Yours is only wishful thinking tying to bring down Mary to our depraved state. The Dogmas of the Church are clear, to reject them is blasphemy against God’s revealed truth. Don’t debate Christ’s Church unless you accept the purity of her teachings.

Angelo - I am not quite sure I reject ALL of Traditon.  For instance, I do think that upon reflection, the writings of Justin Martyr, on what happens at the Lord’s Supper is very valuable.  Further, I believe a man named Josephus, perhaps a secular man and not even Christian, has historical writings that are most valuable.

All of that would be “tradition” or even “Tradition” with a capitol T.  But I object to taking Scripture out of context to justify a long-held belief that is not from the days of the apostles, and as such, not part of the Christian Deposit of Faith.

I think it’s why so many Catholics do not really see themselves as “Christian” but rather, they distinguish themselves as “Just Catholic” or “Roman Catholic”, and they call all non-Catholics (be they any kind of Protestant or non-denominational churches): Christian.  That’s not accurate, and yet, in a way, it is accurate.  Catholics ARE Christian.  But for some, the “Church”, seen as Rome, gets in the way of Christ, and takes over so much that what the apostles wrote about in the Bible becomes irrelevant.

The MAIN THINGS must be the main things, and the main things are the PLAIN THINGS. The main (and important) things are found in the Bible.  Whether or not Mary was a perpetual virgin, or Peter was the first pope is not critical information that results in a soul being saved or lost. 

The Main Thing is the answer to this question:
“Who is Jesus, and what does His life, His death and His Resurrection mean to you, personally?”  Knowing the answer to that has Eternal Value.
It results in eternal life or eternal death.

I think it’s also very important to discern between different kinds of non-Catholic churches that are all too often painted with a broad brush and labeled: “Protestant”.  We must separate the “God-fearing” and Bible believing non-Catholic Christians from the others that “do church” but as a free for all.

Too many *Mainline Protestant* denominations have gone apostate, so even if (former Roman Catholic priest) Martin Luther saw a Mainline Lutheran church today, he’d be so shocked, he’d run from it!  Really, the man would cry.

Luther would be comfortable in a Missouri Synod Lutheran church, or in a Southern Baptist church, or in *some* Methodist churches (those that endorse their General Assembly decision that said homosexual behavior is not compatible with Christian living) but NOT with those Methodist churches that have bucked the recent decision of their General Assembly leaders.

Luther would never have advocated: women priests & bishops, homosexual church leaders, or the slippery slope that surrounds God-honoring life issues, namely: contraception/abortion/same-sex marriage.

Luther would be a “Reformed” Protestant today - those churches holding to what is in the Bible regarding morals, and frankly, those churches that have more in common with Rome (like the conservative Anglicans that are joining Rome, as we speak) and not the “Mainstream” churches of today.

Please let’s all be mindful of not painting “Protestant” with a broad brush.  It may have been Casting Crowns that made the point about even Jesus saying, “He who is not *against* us is for us” and to let the person be, if he/she is a “God fearer”.  Bottom line: we need to honor God, and to know Him as Father, obedient to Him and to His word. We can do that, as Roman Catholics, as Catholics in union w/ Rome, and as non-Catholic Christians, that are in any Bible-believing church.

Terah James, What does Martin Luther and other protestants have to do with the sacred teachings of Holy Mother Church. The Catholic Church holds the fullness of Truth. She is indefectable, her teachings are pure, holy and spotless with no blemish whatsover. The Catholic Church was founded by Christ, with His promise to be with her until the end of time. As I have said before, the Church is founded on scripture and tradition, both go together, they cannot be separated. The Church cannot be divorced from scripture nor tradition. This is not to say its members are impeccable. Members of the Church sin, many have caused grave scandal, they have distorted the teachings of the Church in the past 45 years, depriving God’s children of the fullness of truth. Nevertheless the Church is the Bride of Christ and she is pure in all she teaches on matters of Faith and Morals. Those who oppose the Church on any infallible teaching, make themselves enemies of the Church, and enemies of the spouse of the Church, who is Jesus Christ. The Apostolic Letter “Dominus Iesus” is a good starting point for those who desire Truth. Love for sacred scripture is very good, but there are those who give it their private interpretation to their own destruction.

@Angelo and Joanp62:  [“The Catholic Church holds the fullness of Truth.”]  Because of your insistence upon Catholic Tradition as part of the “fullness,” there is still nothing in Tradition which provides for the salvation of a man’s soul nor of forgiveness for his sins.  Salvation is ONLY found in the gospel of Jesus Christ.  I support tradition in terms of practice, ritual and exercise thereof, but it has no value equation at all with the gospel.  Salvation is only found in Christ alone.  If you wish to call the gospel as “Sola Scriptura” (which is where the gospel is found, then you are free to do so.  Joanp62 wishes to spin Scripture and Tradition as two sides of the same coin.  This is deceptive belief.  One saves and———try as you might, the other does not.

Casting Crowns, Before you condemn Scripture and Tradition, first learn what it means. You are not Catholic, if ever you find yourself longing for Truth, always remember the fullness of truth is only to be found in the Catholic Faith. You neither understand Scripture nor tradition!!!

@Angelo: [“You neither understand Scripture nor tradition!!!”]  Since you, Angelo, obviously use 3 exclamation points to show how strongly you feel you indeed DO understand, I ask you again to show me and everyone else exactly WHAT in Catholic tradition saves a man?  It’s an empty suit.  You believe this only because you were trained and taught to believe it by a priest or by nuns in Catholic school as a child.  Intellectually speaking, you have never graduated from Catholic grammar school thinking into adulthood.  Upon closer examination you will only see it is the gospel of Jesus Christ which saves men and women.

Casting Crowns, no one is saved by Scripture or Tradition. All are saved by Jesus Christ and Jesus Christ alone, but Jesus Christ (have you read Dominus Jesus yet?) speaks through the Catholic Church infallibly, through Scripture and Oral Tradition. To have a valid teaching of the Catholic Church (not something Fr. so and so made up) you have the voice of Jesus Christ. You know the Bible passages that support this, “Whatsoever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven.” and “I will be with you until the end of time.”  The word of God is a two edged sword. It never comes back unfruitful, but that’s because it is the voice of Jesus Christ. And it is possible for Satan to twist Scripture, so you can believe the Bible says something it doesn’t. And then it’s turned into the voice of Satan. That’s why you have to read it in context of the whole Bible and the whole teaching of the Catholic Church, or you can be led astray. Let me give you an example. I was having a disagreement with a person in authority in the Catholic Church, and the Scripture passage that kept coming to my mind was the one about the woman pestering the unjust judge, and getting her judgement by persistence. My spiritual director pointed out that the effect of thinking of that passage was I felt a certain hatred for the person in authority in the Catholic Church. That means that passage was being twisted by Satan to make me hate someone. (Love your neighbor as yourself) She gave me a different passage to think about that was much more compassionate, and in the end I got the thing I was trying for, namely the confirmation of my 13 year old son.

When Pope John Paul II said there was no way anyone could ordain women in the Catholic Church, he wasn’t making up a rule. He wasn’t creating oral tradition. That’s what the Mormons do when they change the tenants of their faith. Pope John Paul II was looking at the Written and Oral Tradition of the Church from the time of the apostles. He—in effect said—no matter how much I want to ordain women priests, I—as the guardian of the Deposit of Faith given to us by the apostles—I am not free to do so. Jesus Christ didn’t do it and I cannot as well. I bow to the Lord’s judgement. I know it’s popular for feminists to think Jesus was subject to the mores of his culture, but He wasn’t. The mores of His culture said you don’t talk to fallen women at the well, and you don’t eat with tax collectors or sinners. Yet he spoke to the woman at the well and He ate with tax collectors, but all his ordained apostles were men. (Women were definitely his disciples though, and actually supported Him financially.) God bless you. Susan Fox. The article on the Deposit of Faith written by my husband Lawrence Fox in out blog (in the Labels called “The Deposit of Faith.”) would be very helpful to help you understand these issues. http://christsfaithfulwitness.blogspot.com

Casting Crowns, You clearly show that you do not understand the “Tradition” the Church holds to. Jesus Christ before his Ascencion into heaven, promised the paraclete, “To teach you all truth”. this Paraclete is the 3rd person of the Blessed Trinity, God the Holy Ghost, who in fact came as promised by Christ on Pentecost. Christ’s words, “To teach you all truth” clearly shows that Chist taught all truth but it had to be interpreted in truth. The Church in its history has had what are called the “Fathers of the Church” some who have been given the title of “Doctor of the Church”. These Men and Woman filled with the Holy Ghost had a passion for studying God and what it is that he desires of us. They were led by the Paraclete to learn and teach all truth. They took all of scripture not out of context, but as Susan Fox points out they took all of scripture as a whole with written and oral Tradition from the time of the Apostles. This is the Tradition the Church refers to. You think that the tradition that the Church speaks of, is only traditional practices of the Church. In a sense that is true, as all pious practices come from the traditional Dogmas of the Church. But it is not to be confused with the Church’s infallible stand on “Scripture and Tradition”, but are good and perfect fruits that come from it. One such fruit are the Doctrine on Indulgences.

Casting Crowns, I would like to recommend “VIS”, it is a Vatican site. The Holy Father Pope Benedict XVl will begin a Catechitical series to help us understand what Faith is. He has begun with, “Faith is to be found in the Creed, the profession of Faith which develops the moral life of Christians.” When it comes to the teachings of the Church, many have made this error, “If I don’t fully understand it, then I won’t accept it”. The truth of God does not depend on whether we fully understand it, if the Church officialy teaches it then it is the truth and we must give full assent of Faith. Here is a true story that is an example of this. St. Augustine a Father of the Church tells the story. He had such a desire to learn all about God. He became very frustrated and dissapointed that he could not learn everything about God. One day walking along the seashore, he observed a small boy who made a hole at a distance from the sea. He had a spoon and went back and forth filling the hole with the sea water. After long observing this child, St. Augustine was curious as to what he was doing. So he went up to the child and asked him what it was he was doing. The child answered, I have dug this hole and with this spoon I will fill it with the whole sea. St. Augustine told the Child that such a thing was immpossible. The Child then turned gloriously brilliant with light and told St. Augustine. You are correct Augustine, this hole is your mind, the sea is the vast knowledge about God. Just as the sea cannot be completely held in this hole, so the great knowledge of God cannot be completely held in your mind. Then the Child dissapeared. After that St. Augustine understood that he could never possibly fully know all we can know about God. Yet St. Augustine left us volumes of what he did learn about God. St. Augustine is a Father and Doctor of the Church, his writings come under “Tradition”. The Holy Ghost gave St. Agustine the gift of learning truth, just as Christ promised, the Paraclete “To teach you all truth”.

I have never heard of anything called the “Doctrine of Indulgences”.  When was this doctrine put into place?  The Bible warns us about believing “new doctrines”.  Might that be one of them?

Terah James, The Doctrine of Indulgences is certainly nothing new. In history the granting of Indulgences was abused. Many today greatly exaggerate the abuses. I do not know the history of the Doctine of Indulgences and I don’t need to. If the Church teaches it, then it is absolute truth and I accept it, without question. One of the most insulting man made doctrines against God is that of “sola scriptura”. St. Paul himself says “Follow all the Traditions we have taught you”. St. Peter the first Pope, condemns private interpretation of scripture and declares that many damn themselves by attempting this horrendous sin. I did buy a book years ago called “The Enchirdion of Indulgences” Pope Paul Vl in it explains this Holy Dogma. I do not have to understand it, I have Faith in the indefectability of the Holy Roman Catholic Church founded by Jesus Christ. Remember the Church follows “Scripture and Tradition”, according to the commands of the Apostles. The new man made doctrine or heresy if you wish, is that of sola scriptura. It is only a 500 year old heresy, an insult to God’s Justice and to his Holy Apostles Peter and Paul.

HERE’S WHAT THE NEW CATHOLIC CATECHISM SAYS ABOUT THE PRACTICE.
From what it says, it is tied to the Sacrament of Penance. That was instituted by Jesus Christ before the Bible was written when He said, “Whoever’s sins you shall forgive shall be forgiven and whoever’s sins you shall retain, shall be retained.” That was part of the Oral Tradition that was written down into Scripture. And then it took the Catholic Church five centuries to pick and chose which books are truly inspired by the Holy Spirit. Coup de Grace: no where in Scripture does it tell you which books are Scripture. That was decided by the Oral Tradition of the Catholic Church. That is an indisputable historical reality. Susan Fox http://christsfaithfulwitness.blogspot.com
HERE’S WHAT THE CATECHISM SAYS:

X. INDULGENCES

1471 The doctrine and practice of indulgences in the Church are closely linked to the effects of the sacrament of Penance.

What is an indulgence?

“An indulgence is a remission before God of the temporal punishment due to sins whose guilt has already been forgiven, which the faithful Christian who is duly disposed gains under certain prescribed conditions through the action of the Church which, as the minister of redemption, dispenses and applies with authority the treasury of the satisfactions of Christ and the saints.“81

“An indulgence is partial or plenary according as it removes either part or all of the temporal punishment due to sin.“82 The faithful can gain indulgences for themselves or apply them to the dead.83

@Susan Fox:  Here is your delemma.  Why should anyone require indulgences when Christ has paid for all sin—prior, past and to come?  Our confession (to agree we have sinned) and repentence (to turn from sinful behavior) God says He will remember our sins no more.  The granting or selling of indulgences only leads one to suspect you distrust the gospel, you distrust the words of Jesus in favor of placing more belief in what church leaders say.  That is blasphemy against the Holy Spirit.  Furthermore, while we agree the books of the NT were written by catholics, (you would say “C”), the word catholic means universal.  In this sense they were catholic (small “c”).  The Catholic Church cannot claim they gave us the OT Scriptures and the Catholic church was not even fully developed until centuries after the NT was written.  If we can only accept the Bible on the basis of the Catholic Church, you are elevating and making the Catholic Church superior to God’s direct and inspired word.  Such is human reasoning.  Yours is circle logic.  You want to prove the Bible on the basis of Catholic Church authority while at the same time prove the Catholic Church by the Bible.  Since you would agree God’s word is inerrant, you have not demonstrated why the NT is not the sole authority.  Conversely, the idea the Catholic Church is the sole authority robs God of His sovereignty and rightful position over men.  If the Catholic Church creates doctrinal authority then the New Testament (by default) is declared to be in error.

Susan Fox wrote, “That’s why you have to read it [Scripture verses] in context of the whole Bible and the whole teaching of the Catholic Church, or you can be led astray.”*********

Susan, I agree with you, 100%.  So what happens when the whole teaching of the Catholic Church [Tradition] *differs* from what is specifically written down in Scripture?

For instance, we know Jesus grew into a grown Man, died & rose from the dead, and then ascended into Heaven, in His grown Man’s Body.

But St. Theresa of Liseaux, St. Anthony, etc., reversed His growth back to an infant or back to a little boy.  The danger I speak about is that we cannot control Jesus.  No one can, not even Satan.  But we *can* control an infant.  We can think of Jesus as a little boy, that needs His mommy and daddy, and that takes orders from each.

I heard a priest say a prayer TO St. Joseph, where he said something like, “St. Joseph, kiss the forehead of Baby Jesus, reposing in your arms.  I dare not wake him, but ask him to return the kiss, at my last hour.”  Huh???

Everyone to a PERSON that saw Jesus, in Heaven, in the Old Testament and in the New, has fallen face forward and worshipped (none fell backwards, by the way - except for perhaps Paul, when he was Saul on the Road to Damascus).  Not one of them was the same.  Reducing Jesus to a schoolboy is dangerous.  It makes the Son of God, small.

Picturing ourselves at the foot of the cross, and using our imagination to enter into the Bible is fine- it can be very good.  But making Jesus a Person of our OWN creation, disregarding how He Himself revealed Himself to us is, I repeat: dangerous.  Pious saints from the Dark Ages aside.

Regarding your 13 year old child and confirmation - if he was ready for it, understanding what the Christian faith is all about, without having the other details, it sounds like the person that was a roadblock to you had a power-control issue.

There are many modern day Pharisees in our church that like ‘rules’ and they are, for the most part, NOT being influenced by the Holy Spirit.  They get their jobs because they play ball, coming across to busy pastors as knowing a lot.

But they know almost nothing of Eternal Value; their being in leadership roles is a disservice.  Perhaps you grew from your experience with this person (sanctification, assuming you are already justified with the Father), and it was for you to just show a good example to this church leader.

Lastly, in NO Bible-believing church (non-Catholic Christian) are women authorized to be priests or pastors over men.  None of them.  Not even one.  Churches that allow women to lead men are 100% apostate.

Just today, an Episcopal priest/bishop was removed from ministry because he is conservative and refused to say that homosexual behavior can be reconciled with Christian living.  This man and his congregation (that hold beliefs that are ‘catholic’ = universal Christian church, although not in union with Rome on everything) are in the Body of Christ.  We must look at the fruit.  This God-fearing/honoring priest/bishop is paying a public price, for obeying God (not man).

Angelo wrote, “...as Susan Fox points out they [Rome] took all of scripture as a whole with written and oral Tradition from the time of the Apostles. This is the Tradition the Church refers to.”***********

Written and oral Tradition from the time of the Apostles to now, 2012, including the Dark Ages, when most Catholis were illiterate and they placed the clergy on pedestals?  We have many practices that come from that time. 

Where in any of the New Testament are plenary indulgences even suggested? When we see conflicts between Scripture and tradition (catechism Susan Fox quoted) which should we follow?  Which trumps which?

God bless you Casting Crowns and Terah James. No, Casting Crowns the question is if you find Scripture without error, why do you question the Sacred Tradition that created it? How can you accept one and not the other, unless you hope to rob Jesus of His authority to found His Church on Peter: “You are Peter and upon this Rock I will build my Church.” He didn’t say, “You are Bible and upon this book I will build my Church.” You are twisting Scripture. It is Scripture you don’t believe. Scripture clearly states we must have someone to explain Scripture to us. We can’t learn it in a vacuum. Look at the disciples on the Road to Emmaus. They were discussing, but not understanding the events of the Passion and Death of Christ. Jesus had to appear and explain the Scriptures to them. Or the Eunuch in the Book of Acts, who was reading Isaiah. Philip asks him if he understands what he reads and he says, “How can I unless someone explain it to me?” So Philip explained it to him and he was baptized. If you do not allow your conscience to be formed by the Church that Christ founded, you are basically living in your own imagination. That is a very comfortable place, but you will never understand Sacred Scripture.

God is the source of all Divine Revelation, which comes down to us in two modes, Oral and Written. There can be no conflict between what God has said in Scripture and what He has taught us through Sacred Tradition handed down by the apostles. St. Paul points this out to Timothy. He says Timothy you have my teachings in writing but you have also observed my faith at work. You have seen me in action, and you have read what I wrote.  Outside of this lived experience of the apostles there is no way to understand the meaning of the written word that was collected by the Church over the next five centuries. St. John said, “We ate with Him (Jesus), we drank with Him, we spoke with Him.” They knew Him. That is the source of the Sacred Tradition. That St. Anthony had a devotion to the Christ Child is not part of the Sacred Tradition of the Catholic Church because Sacred Oral Tradition is PUBLIC Revelation and it ended with the apostles. St. Anthony’s devotion to the Christ Child is part of the traditions of the Catholic Church with a small “t” or private revelation. The laity are permitted to believe in private revelation so long as it doesn’t contradict the Public Revelation handed down to us by the apostles.They are free to believe it, but not required to do so.

However, devotion to the Christ Child is biblical and it is from Sacred Tradition. It begins with the Gospel of Luke. His source? Probably the Blessed Virgin Mary. She reports to him (Sacred Tradition) that God sent angels to a group of shepherds near where Jesus was born, and told them “The Good News!” “For to you is born this day in the city of David a Savior, who is Christ the Lord!” So as soon as the angels left, the shepherds said, “Let’s go see this thing that has happened.” They didn’t approach Mary, Joseph and Jesus thinking, “Hmm, maybe I can control this infant.” They went in joy to worship their Infant God, their Savior. Now if God didn’t want them to worship Him as an infant, if He feared they would control the Infant, He should have told his angels to keep their mouths shut. But He didn’t. He actually sent them to bring the Good News that the promised Savior had arrived.

Matthew’s Gospel brings us the story of the three Wise Men. They followed a star and brought gifts to the Infant God, gold (for his kingship), frankincense ( for his Godhead) and myrrh ( for his Sacrifice). The Bible says they worshipped Him. They didn’t try to control Him. And if God didn’t want His Son loved and adored as an Infant, he should have extinguished that blasted star. That gave everything away.

Re: Indulgences, no one has to receive an indulgence to be saved. It’s a free gift from the Church. You are welcome to work our your salvation in fear and trembling by other means. Ultimately whether you try for an indulgence or simply repent of your sins at the last minute, no one is saved except through Jesus Christ and his sacrifice on the cross. All are saved (if they are saved) by Jesus.
When you commit a sin and repent, you still need to make reparation because you have harmed someone, yourself, another person, God Himself. Example: you steal money. You have to return it. If you already spent it, you still need to make some form of reparation. You are forgiven in the Sacrament, but UNLESS YOUR CONTRITION IS PERFECT the vestiges of your sin still cling to you. You may have formed a habit of this sin so you do it over and over again. It takes time and a lot of repentance and a lot of work to stop a habit of sin.  Now if you die before you make reparation, you can’t go to heaven because the Scripture says “Nothing defied shall enter heaven.”  Plus we know that some sins can be forgiven in the next life because blasphemy of the Holy Spirit is one that can’t be forgiven. So there’s others that can be forgiven. So a person works to fulfill all the requirements of a plenary indulgence. He receives it. That isn’t a get into heaven free card any time he wants. He can’t sin again after he gets the indulgence and then go straight to heaven. But we trust in God’s mercy. I give all my indulgences to Our Lady and I know and trust God can take me at a moment when I do have complete contrition for my sins. Pope John Paul II died right after the Mass ended on Divine Mercy Sunday. That is a moment which anyone could go straight to heaven because of the promises associated with that feast day. God planned that. God planned the timing of his death. He was merciful. Those of us who watched that death knew he went straight to heaven.  God can and does do the same for all who ask, seek—they will find. But if you do die immediately after sincerely receiving a plenary indulgence, you do die with perfect contrition because one of the conditions is no attachment to sin. So yes if you go to confession and confess your sins they are forgiven, but if your contrition is imperfect, Jesus doesn’t say, “I’ll die on the cross for you so you can go straight to heaven with lukewarm sorrow for your sins.” No you have to be repentant like the thief on the cross.
That’s the value of the indulgences. They are just little Catholic bon bons. Ignore them if you want to. And their power lies in the fact that Christ has already paid the price for our souls when He died on the cross. No Jesus, no indulgence, no matter what the Church says.

Indulgences do not represent a distrust of the Gospel, but in fact a fulfillment of them because Jesus gave the power to bind and loose to the apostles, and that means sin and its consequences. That’s why the doctrine of indulgences derives from the Sacrament of Confession, instituted by Jesus Christ.

Terah and Casting Crowns, I wonder if you would consider asking Jesus some questions. When things come into your head that seem contradictory, would you consider going in prayer and asking Him to tell you why this seems so contradictory to you. There may be something in your lives that needs healing and He’ll show it to you. But He can’t heal you unless you ask. And you can’t ask unless you know what’s bothering you.  God bless you both. Susan Fox http://christsfaithfulwitness.blogspot.com

Susan Fox, Your post to Casting Crowns and Terah James was most excellant. Now comes the moment of truth between Casting Crowns and Terah James. Are they in fact seeking the truth? Or are they anti-catholics just trying to impose their errors on others? They are something very small, trying to tackle something very huge, which is beyond them.

Casting Crowns and Terah James, The Church has not, nor ever has, nor ever will, place itself above Almighty God. As for the Scriptures, you both need to do some research of how the Bible came about in its present form. The Authority of the Church is not over God, she is the guardian of God’s Truth. The Catholic Church has never contradicted scripture and she never will. The Church has Chrits’s promise of this. By Divine institution she by the Holy Ghost is the sole interpretor of God’s word, not you nor I. If one perceives a contraditction by the Church with scripture, it is never the Church that is in error, but rather the one who sees an imaginary contradiction through false interpretation. As for Christ being adored as a Child, where exactly is the error. God became Man, first as a Fetus in the womb of his Most Holy Mother, then as an infant, then as a Child growing up, then as an adult till the age of 33. To say that Christ must be adored only at the age of 33, is a heresy that denies his life as “a Man in all things except sin.”. I always remember the words of Ven. Archbishop Fulton Sheen about Jesus, “He spent 30 years obeying, 3 years preaching, 3 hours dieing”, as scripture has always used numbers, this is a great mystery that belongs to the Church. You both make a farse of the Church, denying her the Mission Christ entrusted to her, and giving it to yourseves. Don’t you think this is a grand offense against God? You speak of the “Dark Ages”, this of course has always been a protestant cheap shot at the Church. The darkest ages in the history of Christianity is happening today, and we are all taking roles in it. Your problems with the Church is the fact that you both reject her as the Bride of Christ. This is your own doing. Perhaps your best path would be silence.

WOW!!! I am so glad, thankful and grateful to Almighty God for giving me my Catholic faith.  I am truly sorry for all those non-Cahtolics who would truly like to join us but can’t because they’re afraid they’ll know the Truth and that Truth WILL set them free;  So they come on our site & unashamedly bash us, not realizing they’re bashing God too.  He gave them the same Church that He gave us, if they’ll do a Spiritual Genealogy, they’ll see who, in their family, left the real Church of Christ & was seduced into a world of turmoil, where they’ve been left, outside God’s love & protection.
I believe you can track your Spiritual Genealogy thru the Coming Home Network,(chw.org?), it was developed by Marcus Grodi, a convert to Catholicism.  He also has a show, “The Journey Home”, on EWTN(The Eternal Word Network), a Catholic TV station that’s there 24/7, by the Grace of God & Mother Angelica’s fiat to Him. God Bless all, my prayers are with you, especially our lost brothers & sisters, who, one day, will be Home with us. BTW, you’re not on this website because you chose to be, you were guided by the Holy Spirit so you can learn the Truth about Christianity!

For those who have questions about the PLENARY INDULGENCE, (the topic of this article) for info and a link directly to the Vatican web site Porta Fidei and another for the indulgence go to: http://whatcatholicsreallybelieve.com or search:  ” What Catholics REALLY Believe SOURCE “.

@Angelo:  [“The Catholic Church has never contradicted Scripture and she never will. The Church has Christ’s     promise of this.  By Divine institution she by the Holy Ghost is the sole interpretor of God’s word, not you nor I.”]  You’re sure about that, Angelo?  There are other examples, but let’s start with this one where Pope John Paul II contradicts Pope Peter.

He claims to be the successor of St Peter, but unlike Peter, Pope John Paul II taught others to trust in Mary and to surrender the hour of death wholly to her care.  Apostle Peter taught people to call on the only name given by God for our salvation, the blessed name of Jesus the Messiah. “Nor is there salvation in any other, for there is no other name under heaven given among men by which we must be saved” (Acts 4:12).  Which Pope should we listen to,—the one who knew Jesus face to face or John Paul II who teaches salvation is through Mary?

ANNE, When a priest explained to me what an Indulgence is. He said that we can never be sure whether or not we gained a Plenary Indulgence. But if we don’t gain the Plenary we gain a Partial Indulgence. I understood it to be the requirement for the gaining of the Plenary Indulgence of being free of all “attachment to sin”. I have long sought to understand what this “attachment to sin” actually means. Could you please explain this to us, it would be great to finaly know. Thank you and God Bless!

Casting Crowns, St. Peter’s devotion to Our Most Holy Mother comes to us from Tradition. Not everything that happened is written in the sacred scriptures, the very scriptures put together by the Holy Roman Catholic Church founded by Jesus Christ for salvation. St. John the Evangelist himself wrote of this. He says if all were written the world would not be able to hold the volumes. What is in scripture is the Gospel of all that is necessary for salvation. Mary the “WOMAN” is not the Messiah, she is his Mother. Mary as co-Redemptrix leads us to her son Jesus. She says to us, “Do all that he tells you”. We are all called to be co-redeemers with Christ. Our Lord commanded it of us, one passage that shows this clearly, “Go out to all the world, baptizing them in the Name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Ghost”. When one speaks the truth (not error) about God to another, that person is acting in the capacity of co-redeemer with Christ. As for salvation coming to us through Mary, was it not her “Fiat” that brought us so great a Redeemer? That is how God ordained it, some do not like the way God did things so they blaspheme him. Not good, not good at all!

Angelo - you asked: “As for Christ being adored as a Child, where exactly is the error.”*****************

It is very important that we worship God as He revealed Himself to us.  How are we to look for Him, if we picture Him still in a crib, or as a pre-teen?  He is the Groom to the Bride of Christ, the Church.  We, members of the Bride of Christ, are to be grown up in our faith now. How can we LOVE God, if we don’t know Him as He is?

To Susan Fox - I appreciate your heartfelt comments and to compare Indulgences to Bon Bons is actually very good because it’s like a sugar pill, with no nutrients of value.  Eat too much of them, and they will kill.  Best to read the New Testament, and rely on that to feed us.  Man does not live by bread alone (or bon bons) but by every word that proceeds from the mouth of God, found in the Bible.

@Angelo:  Refer to Catholoic-forum.com for the Stations of the Cross to wit:  “STATION 1 - Jesus is condemned to Death.  Begin with Adoration:
“We adore Thee, O Christ, and we praise Thee, because by **Thy** holy cross, **Thou** hast redeemed the world.  Angelo, the reference to “Thy” and “Thou” refer to Christ alone.  It is His cross.  Christ is the Redeemer.  The idea that Mary is co-redemtrix/redeemer just isn’t there.

Casting Crowns, If your right, now you must never again speak of Christ to anyone, as you are not Christ, you are not the Messiah, you cannot take part in spreading the good news of redemption. You must never try to lead anyone to Our Lord again. You do not have the power to redeem, so you must observe absolute silence. Christ saves, you cannot save, you by your own words are forbidden to preach Christ, you did not die on the Cross. you cannot speak to anyone about salvation or you will be guilty of taking part in God’s redemption, it would make you a co-redeemer with Christ. Now do you see your Fallacy?! Terah James, By your reasoning you are forbidden to worship Christ at the age of 30 when he began his public preaching, you can only worship him at the instant of his death, not 1 second before. This is your reasoning, and it is flawed. Because you believe that Christ was never born he just came down from heaven at age 33 and died on the Cross. When Christ was found in the temple he was 12. According to your fallacy we cannot honor him at that age. The Magi erred, the Shepards erred, St. Simeon erred, St. Anna erred. All who honored Christ before the instant of his death erred. What utter nonsense. I thank God I don’t belong to your religious sect.

Casting Crowns & Terah James, I won’t be able to answer your comments anymore. Because you did not die on the cross for me, you are forbidden by your own words to join Christ in spreading the Gospel. That would cause you both to act as if you could take any part in the salvation of others. It would mean that you will be acting like co-redeemers in union with Christ by spreading the Gospel. By your own words you have made yourselves no part of the redemption of others. If you continue to comment you will be practicing co-redemption, giving yourselves the title you deny the Most Holy Queen of Heaven. Your private interpretation of scripture has brought about your self imposed obligatory silence. I am a co-redeemer with Christ so I can say this, God Bless you both!

I have read many times that the Most Holy Rosary of Our Lady is the most indulgenced prayer. Indulgences if one prays the Rosary before the Blessed Sacrament or in a group, by using Rosary beads blessed by a Priest, meditating on the Mysteries, by kissing the Crucifix, by praying for the intentions of the Holy Father and the list goes on and on. Let us Catholics revive the gaining of Indulgences. We would be satisfying for our own sins and for the sins of the Holy Souls. During this Year of Faith I pray the Holy Father call for the revival of the gaining of Indulgences. After all the false interpretaions of the Council even the souls in Purgatory suffered the consequences. Before the Council Indulgences landed on the Holy Souls like fresh dew. But today they hardly recieve any. If we pray for the Holy Souls they in turn will pray for us. One day in heaven we will meet all the souls we helped, and we will learn what their prayers obtained for us. What a joyful meeting that will be. Our Lady of Mt. Carmel, deliver souls from Purgatory.

@Angelo;  [“you must never again speak of Christ to anyone, as you are not Christ, you are not the Messiah, you cannot take part in spreading the good news of redemption.”]  Your comment is off point and doesn’t make any sense.  Jesus commanded us at His ascension to share the gospel with the whole world.  There is but one Redeemer, that of Christ Himself.  People who share His gospel are not responsible for the redemption of lost people, the Holy Spirit is.  By sharing the gospel with the lost, we are only doing as Jesus told us.  We are not responsible for the results.  Angelo, your comment is further troubling since you seem to infer there is some type of credit afforded to you in the redemptive process.  People who share the gospel take no credit but instead yield all credit and glory to Christ Jesus.  Our discipleship is that we obey Him.  The Holy Spirit is responsible for the results.

Casting Crowns, You don’t seem to get the point. You want to spread the Gospel. What you claim as your right, you deny to Our Most Holy Mother. Tell me, does the Blessed Virgin Mary have the right to proclaim the Gospel to her children? This is what you are denying her as you attempt to bring her down to our depraved state. You continuously attempt to convince us that Mary was a nobody and a sinner just like anyone else. That, the Church calls “Blasphemy”. I see you will never understand Mary as co-Redemtrix, as you do not have any desire to know what that means. You desire is only to downgrade God’s Mother and nothing more. And yet what the title entails you claim for yourself. My point you say, makes no sense, it was intended not to. It was intended to show you your errors in denying a phrase you do not wish to understand and yet you wish to practice what that very title means. You have denied Mary as the Immaculate Conception, which means she was concieved without original sin. Anything good said of Mary, you must give a contradiction to it. What you have commented on Mary, is obviously some sort of hatred for her. You have said a few good things about God’s Mother, but you seem to have had to force yourself to say those few things against your own will. It is your insight that makes no sense at all. The Church calls that, “erring in the faith”. I continue to comment to you, only because your salvation is at risk. I wish you to live and not die eternal death, which is why I point out your errors in Charity.

Angelo, you continue to speak in circles and make claims I never stated.  We have a command to share the gospel, not a “right.”  We are to obey the command of Jesus.  The Stations of the Cross Prayer declares Jesus as Redeemer —and no one else.  “Thou,” Angelo,—not in conjuction with anyone else.  By your comments, you thus have a problem with the Stations of the Cross prayer since it contradicts your argument concerning a co-redemtrix.

@Angelo:  [“Anything good said of Mary, you must give a contradiction to it. What you have commented on Mary, is obviously some sort of hatred for her.”]  Please avoid attributing to me comments never stated.  Mary is the vigin mother of the promised Messiah.  She has indeed a special and holy role in salvation history.  She is to be honored and respected.  How is that whenever someone does not accept the full doctrinal teaching of Maryology, you automatically accuse someone of “hating” Mary?  You sound like Obama throwing grenades at Romney for positions he doesn’t hold.

Why did so many people suddenly get so touchy?  No one “hates” Mary.  Whatever happened to discussion, thought & civil public debate about our faith?  Why can’t Catholics ever do that, without fighting?

Edward Pentin: are you reading this?  “Why Catholics can’t think for themselves and communicate with other conservative Bible-believing Catholics (and Bible-believing non-Catholics)” may be a good subject for an upcoming article.

Maybe the real question is: Why do Catholics “hate” the Bible?  Why do Catholics “hate” God’s own word, IF they believe it is the Holy Spirit inspired word of God, why is the Bible at the end of the list of sources that Catholic lay people find credible?  Inquiring minds want to know.

The Church and her teachings have been blasphemed on this thread. Mary has been lowered to a sinner. The heresy of sola scriptura has been unleashed. There have been attacks on the Doctrine on Indulgences. Tradition has been nullified. To debate the Catholic faith in this manner, on a Roman Catholic site is a farse. What short memories we have! It is very simple, go back and read all the posts on this thread. Lets not fake, “Whats going on?”, lets not be hypocrates. I’m accused of having a problem with one of my favorite Catholic devotions, namely the Via Crucis. That makes me laugh. That of course is a protestant lie. One of my favorite parts of the Via Crucis is the “Stabat Mater”. Ever heard of it? It is the part of the Stations of the Cross that makes clear the role of Mary as co-Redemtrix. Where Jesus Reigns, Mary is Queen!

@Angleo.  You, above anyone else should be the last person to complain about anything.  You are a defender of the church?  What a joke.  You have referred to the Novus Ordo Mass as a heresy and on other blogs you have complained every Pope since Pius XII in the 1950’s are illegitimate.  You are a Tridentine Catholic who only accepts the Latin Mass.  You complain about non Catholics (those terrible Protestants and Evangelicals) while you yourself are in rebellion against Peter’s chair.  Your comments alone make you disobedient to Catholic Church authority.  Don’t speak to the rest of us about following Catholic “teaching authority” by the Magisterium when (as a Catholic) you do not follow that same authority.  You have become your own pope with your own interpretation of Catholicism.

There are several times I wanted to reply, but just got cross-eyed reading all the jibes back and forth, so I have not read every single thing.  I like statues and paintings and pictures of my grandparents and family and friends. I can’t imagine worshiping any of them, but they do remind me of the holiness of the person or subject matter and their love for God and that encourages me. I may remember particular aspects of that love and how it relates to the love of God and how I am doing in my love of neighbor. I believe I can ask the saints in heaven to intercede for me as I would a friend right here. They may be dead here but they are alive in Christ. I think indulgences are great opportunities for special graces (and who ever has too much grace?). I understand the Church has the authority to offer these graces because the Holy Spirit inspires this. I think it’s 1 Tim 3:15 that speaks of the Church as being the foundation, and bulwark of the truth. Paul also states that no scripture is open to personal interpretation (not counting those wonderful times the Lord just loves us up with His Word or corrects us when we err and fail to love just as the Church does), which implies that Christ left an Authority, so we wouldn’t break into all the little pieces we tend to when we think that we are our own authority. I also think Christ would be breaking His own commandments by not honoring His mother.(and we should too!) Remember - if you break one you have broken them all! That’s impossible for Christ! The Church is like a Mother, with good and not so good children. The greatest strength I have ever received is from the Eucharist in the Mass and the graces from the sacraments. I love the Bible too, but Sola Scriptura is not even scriptural! I love to sit in front of the Blessed Sacrament in the Adoration Chapel -it makes my heart sing and if no one is around, my mouth sings too! Of course that doesn’t happen when others are there, because it’s my secret!(and I can’t carry a tune very well!) One will never ever plumb the depths of the riches and treasure within the Catholic Church! Criticism of sinners will never be an open doorway to grace, but surrender to Christ and all He offers will raise you up on eagle’s wings and you will soar. Our separated brothers and sisters have a great love for God which must be respected, but here is sooooo much more!!!!!!!

Jane Howley, I like the way you put things. As for our separated Brethren, I have every respect for them. But one thing I do not respect is when they begin blaspheming Our Most Holy Mother and the teachings of the Church. God would never ask us to respect blasphemy against him and his Holy Mother. I try to be Charitable, but I remember reading of a certain Saint who said, “Sometimes a slap on the face is better than a few kind words.”. I have many times said to others that I like to speak to everyone in their own vernacular. Its not a punch in return for a punch, it is what I consider a fraternal correction. When speaking to someone who is dragging Catholics and the Faith through the mud, I then answer them in sort of the same manner. I find it is an eye opener to them. Jane Howely, I wish you would continue to post in the style that you have.

Jane Howley and Angelo, Your comments are wonderful, though I fear Jane you may have just stepped into a nest of vipers, who will now tear everything you said apart. Don’t be dismayed. Angelo I got your sarcasm to Casting Crowns about the co-redemptrix issue. But as you can see she can’t understand it.  But Terah James, I just want to say one thing about your romantic image of yourself as a Bible believing Christian, I have spoken nothing but the Bible to you in this entire conversation, and you have not believed a word of it. Plus you apparently refuse to read the Bible as a prayer method? Come on honey, the only one who hates the Bible in this discussion is you. Stop dumping that trip on Catholics. We do read the Bible, and you apparently are afraid to believe what it says. God bless you. Susan Fox http://christsfaithfulwitness.blogspot.com

So late in coming to write and read more about this beautiful year given to us by God - a chance to renew our life and rededicate it to Him.  Please stop all this hateful talk we don’t have to defend anything to anyone. I think just trying to become the person God wants us to be is work enough! May God Bless us! And may we learn to love and serve Him better!

Susan Fox, you wrote to me: “Plus you apparently refuse to read the Bible as a prayer method?”

1) How did you leap to that conclusion?  I highly recommend reading the Bible as a method of prayer. 

2) Regarding picturing Jesus as a child that explains the Bible to you:
What do you think about what happened to Aaron’s two sons, in the Book of Numbers, Chapter 3, verse 4?  For context of that verse, see the Book of Leviticus, Chapter 10: verses 1-20.

My point in suggesting the above verses to you is that God is particular about how we approach Him, and the lesson we can learn from what happened to Aaron’s (well-meaning) sons is that we must obey Him.

Jesus is simply no longer a child.  Christianity is not like Burger King Religion, and their motto, “Have it your way.”

Everything we do, as people bought with a price, must be God’s way, as He revealed it, through the Old and New Testaments.  God is very clear.  In this “Year of Faith”, we can all get to know our Triune God better, and as He is, not how we want Him to be.

Well, Terah, I suggested Lexio Divina to you as a prayer method and your response was to begin issues over the Child Jesus. That’s why I drew that conclusion. I apologize if I was wrong. I’m glad you are praying Scripture.  Nadab and Abihu disobeyed God. They didn’t do what they were commanded. This reminds me of the Cain and Abel story. Cain’s sacrifice was not acceptable to God because he was jealous of Abel and killed him. That is not in the case with the Shepherds present at the birth of Jesus. They obeyed God and went up to see what they had been told by the angels. They were acting out of obedience, and they were to worship God’s Son as an Infant, and they did.  I do believe that God is particular about how we approach Him—it must be with reverence. That’s why he told Moses to take off his shoes when he approached the burning bush. God permits the Shepherds and the Magi to approach His Son with the same reverence. He doesn’t change that any where in the Scripture.  When you get to the sentence: “Jesus is simply no longer a child,” you are talking out of your own head not out of Scripture. God was pleased by the worship he received as a child, and pleased when this was recalled for generations of Christians in the celebration of Christmas. ONly the Jehovah’s Witnesses won’t celebrate Christmas.
God also wants us to approach Him with familiarity and piety. Think of St. John the Evangelist laying his head on the shoulder of Jesus at the Last Supper. John the Beloved. So you must keep reverence and familiarity in balance. Devotion to the Child Jesus allows some people to over come extreme reverence and approach God who may seem to be a little scary because of their great reverence. My own mother considered herself to be a child of the Child Jesus because she was afraid to approach God as are you are devoted to Him, and she felt more comfortable coming as a little child to a child. Everyone’s spirituality is unique. God is pleased to allow His children to worship Him with their unique ability to love as long as they show reverence and piety. You can’t change the facts of Scripture. God came as an Infant. And if He didn’t want worship as an Infant, he should have stayed hidden until He was grown. You are the one who can’t accept His self revelation as an Infant. Take your own advice, “Don’t have it your way.” God bless you. Susan Fox http://christsfaithfulwitness.blogspot.com

Casting Crowns, I missed your comment of Oct. 23, 2012 6:32 PM, until this morning I read it. You state as a fact that I consider The Novus Ordo Missae as a heresy, that I have complained about every Pope since Ven. Pius ll and consider every Pope since him as illegitimate, That I accept only the Tridentine Mass, you claim I reject the Chair of St. Peter, and that I have made myself my own Pope giving my own interpretaion of the Church. Permit me to call you a liar! Why did you invent this? I don’t need to defend myself but I am going to. I accept the Novus Orso Missae 100%, as I accept all 27 approved Rites of the Church, I have decried the liturgical abuses in the New Mass just as the Pope does. I have never complained of any Pope as they are the voice of God on earth. I have in my spiritual life devotion to Bl. John XXlll, Paul Vl, John Paul l and Bl. John Paul ll. I have complete obedience to His Holiness Pope Benedict XVl. The day Benedict was elected I consider one of the greatest days in my life. I have not made myself my own Pope, I follow with great interest all Pope Benedict XVl says, I trust him completely as he is Christ’s Vicar. Now where did you get your false ideas about what I believe? Did you invent it, or are you confusing me with someone else?

Cynthia Molinary, “Please stop all this hateful talk”. I understand where you are coming from. But for too long we Catholics have kept silence and as a result many Catholics are leaving the Church for other religions. Less than a year ago the Holy Father and his Magisterium called for “Apoligetics” to be revived. At one time in the Church there was stong emphasis on Apoligetics which is the defense of the truths of our Catholic faith. It was good for us and others. Rome at this time is working on the revival of Apoligetics and have called on the faithful to take this important endeaver up again. There are those of us who never gave up this practice. It has always been necessary and now more than ever. St. Paul exhorts us, “Be ever ready to give an answer for your faith”. Whenever there is a Catholic Blog Site, there always comes the anti-catholics to poison the mind of others. But then there are Catholics who have studied Apoligetics who use it to slam the hersies of those who wish to poison the minds of Catholics. I am 53 years of age. I was a victim of those who poisoned my mind leading me to doubt the Church in my teenage years. I done research and came back with defense of the Church. Since then it has been my passion to defend Christ and his Catholic Church.

@Angelo,  You and “Cut & Paste Candy” are all over the Funeral of Cardinal Martini blog decrying the ills of Cardinal Annibale Bugnini (as your authority) who led liturgical reforms which are now in place.  Your post below is only only “one” example showing you agree both yourself and Candy are members of a fringe Catholic opposition sect at odds with Vatican authority.  By your own admission, you are in rebellion against the church fathers and their authority over you.  The RCIA process will be a good refresher course for you to learn obedience to the church once again.  Stop trying to fool people you are mainstream Catholic when you really belong to the opposition underground church.

Posted by Angelo on Tuesday, Sep 11, 2012 4:49 PM (EST):

Casting Crowns, How did you discover us? But we are no longer in secret, we have come out of the underground Church. Only to do battle against the heretical liberals.

Susan Fox: Actually, Jesus DID stay hidden until He was grown up.  Outside of the account of His birth and the flight to and from Egypt, the first mention of Him was when He was found in the Temple, at age 12.  Then, we hear nothing at all, until the time of John the Baptist preaching repentance, and Jesus and John the Baptist were around age 30.
He taught and traveled for 3 years, until the age of 33 or so.

While I understand that your mother, and you, like to picture yourselves as children, approaching the child Jesus, it just is not what He is.  In order to LOVE God, we must see Him as He is, and how He revealed Himself.

I am becoming strongly convinced that Catholics such as yourselves and many others on this thread, and NC Register advocates in general, are really little children, in terms of their faith.  That is where the problem is, and the conflict, with non-Catholics that have matured in their faith, and with fellow Catholics, that can easily communicate with non-Catholics. 

Children believe anything: that Santa Claus goes down every chimney in the whole world, with gifts; that the Tooth Fairy leaves money underneath their pillows at night; that the Easter Bunny brings baskets with candy for them.  Children are very vulnerable.  It is easy to lead them astray, and away from truth.  That’s why Jesus spoke about it being better to have never been born and to have a millstone tied around ones neck, and be thrown into the sea, than misrepresent God to a trusting little one.

Susan Fox - it’s time for Catholics over the age of 8 to grow up.  Our Father in Heaven wants us to know Him as He is, and He revealed Himself to us, in these last days, through His Son: Jesus.  The Holy Spirit leads us into TRUTH, not error.  Trust the Bible, as the Spirit-inspired word of God.  Meditate on it.  Lexio Divina is fine - it’s the truths that are important.  Leave Catholic childhood behind.

Casting Crowns, As for Bugnini, it is no secret at what he attempted to do with the Mass, he even requested the Tridentine Mass be abrogated. As for Cardinal Martini he greatly saddened Rome for heresy. Now where do you get the false accusations you make. You took my remarks and conjured up a conclusion that is fantasy on your part. If you wish to debate, don’t use lies. Lies are from the devil as Christ says, and those who lie are children of the devil. Thats in scripture.

Terah James, Where does it say in scripture that St. Joseph, The Blessed Virgin Mary, the Shepards and the Magi all erred in worshipping God made Man when he was an Infant. St. Elizabeth at the sound of our Most Holy Mother’s voice, filled the Holy Ghost said, “At the sound of your voice the child in my womb leapt for joy”. Was that child in error? St. Elizabeth through the Holy Ghost also said, “But who am I that the Mother of my lord should come to me. Did the Holy Ghost through St. Elizabeth also err. Show us in scripture that it is wrong to adore Christ at any time in his life. Sorry! Your mere guesswork holds no water.

Angelo- I am NOT saying anyone was in error to worship the child Jesus, or Jesus as an infant in the stable.  THEN.

It was not in error for all of our own parents, for that matter, to have celebrated our own first birthdays; they gave us parties, and cakes, and toys.  BUT: we grew up.  We are adults now.

If your wife, Angelo, placed you in a high-chair, on your 53rd birthday, and put a cake on your high-chair tray, expecting you to get it all over your face and eat it with your hands, something would be amiss.

It is the same thing regarding Jesus.  He WAS an infant, then, He grew up.  Right now, He is grown.  He is God.  We worship Him - YES!  And we worship Him, as He is.  As He revealed Himself to us.  I suggest that we leave the musings of saints that lived in the Middle Ages behind us, and that we worship God as HE IS NOW.  To know Him, is to love Him.

Terah James, Well, your not interpreting scripture, your doing some guesswork and presenting it as the factual truth again. Remember that it was to the Apostles that Our Most Holy Mother told the story of the infant Jesus and Jesus at the age of 12, his geneoligy and I’m sure much more (As not all is written in scripture as St. John says), as the Apostles say that Mary kept all these things in her Heart. According to your interpretation Mary was supposed to have forgotten all these things as Chist grew up. Remember that Christ was in his 30’s when Mary told these things to Christ’s Apostles. You say we are to worship Christ as he is now, where does it say that in scripture? And if we are to worship him as he is now, then we cannot worship him at age 33, but at age 2,012. As that is the age his human body is now.

@Angelo:  Disobedience again?  [“As that is the age his human body is now.”]  Angelo, He has no human body . . . now.

Angelo, that is my point. Terah James keeps making the assertion that we must worship Christ in a certain way, but she has no authority from Scripture or Christ’s Church to say that. She is totally making it up out of her own feelings. Terah, you could feel very strongly about this because the way you describe the relationship with Christ is your personal path to God, but you have to realize in maturity that everyone can approach God in freedom with their own unique relationship. No two people on earth have the same relationship with God. God has room for everyone’s unique personality. I remember I used to pray and be sad when I thought of the Lord’s Agony in the Garden. Then I asked my little son to meditate on the Lord’s Agony in the Garden. Afterwards, I said, “Well, son, what happened.” He said he went to the Lord in his agony and told Him jokes! What a sweet thing to do. The Lord was sweating blood leaning on his rock (my imagination now) and my son told Him jokes to cheer Him up because he felt so sorry for his suffering. I think about it now, and my son is grown, but he’s still telling me jokes to cheer me up. I betcha Jesus just got a bellylaugh out of that while he was in the Agony in the Garden.
Terah, the point I have been trying to get across to you and casting crowns—and I am not trying to be mean or snippy—is that whatever you hate in other people that is your problem. You own it. You have the problem you are describing. Why? God has given you the grace to examine yourself and see your faults. If you didn’t have the grace, you wouldn’t see the faults in other people that you think you see. He didn’t give you the grace so you could see others’ faults. He gave it to you to see your own faults. The grace of self-knowledge is a great and wonderful gift. When you post you reveal what graces you’ve been given. You’ve been given the graces to pray and read the Scripture. You have been given the graces of great obedience because you pick right up on it if you see someone else not being obedient. You think I’m being childish. You are being called to mature in your faith and cease being a child.  Now I am not picking on you personally. I do my examine of conscience by asking myself what have other people done that irritates me? Then I look in my life. Right now the only thing people do that irritates me is talk in Church when I am trying to pray. That means in some area of my life I am being inconsiderate of other people’s need for silence or to be alone or whatever. I have to examine myself when I have my fingers stuffed in my ears before Mass on Sunday trying not to hear everyone talking. The temptation is to blame the other person for talking in Church. But God wants me to learn from every experience good or bad, and to learn something about myself and MY PATH to heaven, not something bad about other people talking in Church. IN other words, instead of getting mad, I would go to Jesus and say, “Lord what do you want me to learn from this experience (people talking in Church)?” It’s always something good. One never needs to be afraid of the answer. You can do your entire Plan of Life by writing down a list of things other people do that you personally dislike. Take the list of actions you hate, and then examine your own conscience for these things. You will be very surprised. (I know from experience: initially you won’t think those things apply to you. But pray about it. He’ll show you. ) God bless you. Susan Fox http://christsfaithfulwitness.blogspot.com

Susan Fox, You are correct, Terah James has no authority from the Church to interpret scripture. There was one thing I forgot to mention to Terah James and that is what Christ said about the children, “Unless you become as children like these you will not enter the kingdom of Heaven”. Children are very docile, and like your own Mother who approached our Lord in his childhood, her love and confidence was like that of St. Anthony one of the greatest preachers in the history of the Church. And St. Teresa of the Child Jesus a Doctor of the Church, who loved Christ as a child because her own faith was built with the docility of a child of the child Jesus. At Fatima there were two certain apparitions to Sister Lucia & the other children on the day of the miracle of the sun. She and the other children saw St. Joseph with the Child Jesus blessing the world, also on that day the Fatima children saw Our Lady of Mt. Carmel with the Child Jesus Blessing the world. Some years later in Tuy Spain in the Dorotheon Convent, Sister Lucia beheld a vision of the Christ Child standing with our Lady at his right. Our Lady with great sorrow was holding her Immaculate Heart pierced with thorns. The Child Jesus said to Sister Lucia, “Behold the Heart of your Mother pierced at every moment by ungrateful men. You at least have pity on the Heart of your Mother”. I was thinking last night of all the Christmas Songs about the Baby Jesus, especialy the words “Venite Adoremus” Come let us Adore him. May the Christ Child in the Temple never allow anyone to lead his children astray.

@Angelo:  [”“Unless you become as children like these you will not enter the kingdom of Heaven”.]  This verse refers to trust, Angelo, trust as in how a child always trusts his parents.  There is no expectation of your having to revert to a baby in your approach or thinking concerning Christ.  Since you are now 58 years old, God expects you to have an adult relationship with Him and not that of an infant.  Time for you to grow up and graduate from the Second Grade and mature in the faith.  Fatima is not a requirement by the church that you accept this apparition as true or not.  Fatima has no impact on your own salvation.

Casting Crowns, True that Fatima comes under private revelation, but because it has the full approval of the Church, it would be sinful to speak against it. No one overules what the Church has approved. As for becoming Children that is not what Christ was saying. I clearly pointed out that we must have the docility of a child in loving God. The argument you make is the same argument thrown in the face of Christ by his enemies when he said it. I’m surprised that a bible thumper like yourself was scandalized by what I said. Go back and read it again. As for my age, if I were a million years old, to God I would still be a child as God is eternal. Christ commands us to have child like faith, not childish faith, learn the difference. Perhaps you are the one who has not grown up enough to have a childlike docile faith. I guess Christ while dieing on the Cross, was according to you acting childish and never grew up. As he cried out “Abba” translated= Daddy, papa, papi, padrecito ect… As for Fatima not having an impact on my salvation, perhaps you should find out what Fatima is all about. It will shock you how God bemoans those who reason about him as yourself. Fatima has everything to do with eternal salvation, the vision of hell, obedience to the Holy Father, love for our Lord in the Blessed Sacrament, prayer, sacrifice, reparation, St. Joseph and the Child Jesus, Our Lady of Mt. Carmel and the Child Jesus, Our Lady of Sorrows, Visions of Angels, visions of the truth about the Holy Mass, punishments for sins, amending ones life, cease offending God, wars as a punishment for sin, fashions that will offend God, WWl and WWll, a national Angel, incurable diseases, the loss of souls, Visions of Jesus and Mary, visions of Jesus as a child, a miracle of the sun witnessed by 70,000 people, the consecration of Russia, the fortelling of Russia spreading her errors, the assasination attempt of Bl. John Paul ll in 1981, seen in 1917, the foretelling of Bl. John Paul ll before he was even born, the name of a Pope years before there was a Pope by that Name, the prediction of WWll, the total and complete destruction of certain nations with the death of all its citizens ect…ect…ect… Don’t condemn what you have no knowledge of. Well okay, that is your style I guess! Fatima is salvation material, its also damnation material.

@Angelo:  [“Fatima has everything to do with eternal salvation, . . .”]  Really?  If true, then Jesus didn’t complete His mission on earth and Fatima has occurred 1900 years too late for Catholics living (and dying) before the 20th Century.  Nice going, Angelo.

Casting Crowns, You say Jesus has no human body now! How far will you go??? Who are you?

@Angelo:  The Son of God (from eternity past) never had a human body.  He took human (corporeal) form only for the incarnation of the flesh while on earth.

Angelo - if only you knew as much about the Old and New Testaments, as you do about 19th century apparitions, you would be a great teacher, as then, you’d be teaching God’s revealed Truths!!!

CC is correct.  Jesus has no “human” body now.  He appeared to so many people after the Resurrection, in his resurrected Body.  He ate with them, and Thomas was able to put his fingers into Jesus’ wounds.  But Jesus was also in several places at the same time, and He was whisked away too, as would be a Spirit.  He went through walls.  He does not have a normal human body, and He is eternal, so Jesus is not 2,000 years old.

Terah James, I say the same, if only you knew scripture you could enlighten people instead of trying to cast them into darkness. When Jesus appeared after his Ressurection, the Apostles said, “Its a Ghost!” Christ asked them if a Ghost had flesh and bone? St Thomas placed his fingers through his wounds. Then fell in adoration before Christ and worshipped him. Christ told him, “Thomas you believe because you have seen. Blessed are they who have not seen but yet believe”. If Christ no longer has a human body, how did he ascend into heaven. As a Ghost he could just have floated there. He even promised to return just as he left. If Christ has no more Body and Blood, how then are we to eat his Flesh and drink his Blood. If Christ no longer has the human body given to him by his Mother, Then what happened to his Body that died on the Cross for us? What errors we get trapped into when we practice to interpret scripture privately. I see now why there so many different protestant denominations. When will you and Casting Crowns start reading the bible with the Church who has authority over its interpretation.

Angelo - don’t get your knickers in such a twist.  We agree that Jesus had a body.  But it’s not the kind of body that continued to age, so that he would be 2,000 years old today.  And He is not a baby or a child, in terms of age.  The Son of God (the WORD made Flesh) is eternal.  Ageless.
He was born as an infant, and grew to be 33.  Died, rose and ascended.  He will come again, in the same manner in which he went to the Father.

The key is this: when we see Him, after our own deaths, will He know us as “Brother” and as “Sister”, and are WE adopted children of His Father?
If not, then we’d all best focus on that, while we have time here on earth.  That has Eternal Value.  Whether or not we will be WITH Him in Heaven, where we will truly “know Him as He is”.

We may meet him tonight-tomorrow, next week, next month, next year.  Or He may come first.  The key is this: are we ready?  It’s not so much what Jesus is like now.  The real question is this: are our hearts predisposed towards Him, and do we show the Fruit of the Holy Spirit in our lives, to show we are “In” Him?  We are in Christ, or we are in the world.  We are not a little bit of both.  When we are “In” Christ, we have a need to obey Him, & we obey Him, by knowing God’s word, which shows us God’s will.

@Angelo:  [“If Christ has no more Body and Blood, how then are we to eat his Flesh and drink his Blood.”]  You are thus making one of two cases for yourself with the Real Presence.  Either the reference to His actual Body and Blood are metaphorical (because you have taken Him within your life already) and are only honoring and comemmorating His passion, death and resurrection, OR you are making a case for the Real Presence to be cannibalism.  The gospel assures us His “Real Presence” is there whenever two or more gather in His name so, by default, your argument doesn’t stand.  Conversely, since you are not literally eating the arms, fingers and legs of Jesus nor drinking His physical blood, which is it, Angelo?  You can’t have it both ways.

Terah James, Have you ever heard of the “Transfiguration”. Christ showed himself to 3 Apostles in all his Glory, and forbade them to tell anyone until after he arose from the dead. The Roman Catholic Church began the calender anew. In the Jewish calender it is somewhere between the year 6000 to 7000. Christ was born 2,012 years ago. Answer this question, Why would God go to all the trouble of sending the Archangel Gabriel to Mary for her yes, why would god not come down from heaven at age 33, intsead of allowing himself to be conceived and formed for 9 months in the Womb of the Woman. Why would he have gone to the trouble of being born an infant and nurtured by his Mother the Queen. To spend 30 years with his Holy Mother and St. Joseph. To spend 3 years preaching starting at the request of his Mother. Then after His Sweet Mother being the one to hold him for the first time, at the end she was the last to hold him after he was brought down from the Cross. Knowing God’s word is most important. But distorting God’s word is damnable.

Casting Crowns, You bulch out heresy! When we eat the Flesh and Drink the Blood of Christ, “It is food indeed, it is drink indeed”. “Unless you eat my Flesh and drink my Blood, you have no life in you” He who eats my Flesh and drinks my Blood, will live forever and will never die”. “He who eats me, I live in him and he lives in me” “Your fathers ate manna in the dessert and died, he who eats me will never die” ect…ect…ect… St Paul says that he who eats the Flesh of Christ and drinks his Blood unworthily, does it to his own damnation”. Casting Crowns read the bible! St. Peter says there is no such thing as private interpretaion of scripture, and there are those who do it to their own eternal damnation.  Don’t be among those who damn themselves by blaspheming the word of God. Thank you, and Terah James for the opportunity to teach the catechism. This is fun. But I sorely pity you both.

Terah James and Casting Crowns, Why is it that each time Susan Fox or myself bring out the truths of sacred scripture, you both act like you did not read it. Why don’t you answer to scripture as the Roman Catholic Church interprets it? Why dodge it, is it too much for you? The same as it was who would refuse to hear Christ’s words. They covered their ears or would walk away. Until they killed our Lord. Will you kill him anew? You both certainly cannot say you love Christ, as you reject his words. while lieing that you love scripture.

@Angelo:  [“St. Peter says there is no such thing as private interpretaion.”]  Angelo, all Scripture is inspired.  Apparently, you believe God only reveals Himself to a select few men at the Vatican.  Thus God does not reveal anything to pew people.  Logically, it follows that everyone should then close their Bible and stop reading.  You have thus limited what God can do in your life.  That, Angelo, is blasphemy.

@Angelo:  Re the Transfiguration. [“Christ showed himself to 3 Apostles in all his Glory.”]  Incorrect, Angelo.  More theological hypothesis on your part.  Never was Christ MORE glorified than on the cross.  Read John:  “‘Father, the hour is come; glorify Thy Son…. And now, 0 Father, glorify me with Thyself.’ Of the latter He said: ‘The Spirit shall glorify me.’ ’ I am glorified in them.’”  He is now seated as the Lamb upon the throne where angels of His creation praise Him without ceasing.

Angelo - I don’t know which Scripture verses you say CC and I did not answer, but you asked me this in your last post:
“Answer this question, Why would God go to all the trouble of sending the Archangel Gabriel to Mary for her yes, why would god not come down from heaven at age 33, intsead of allowing himself to be conceived and formed for 9 months in the Womb of the Woman.”

My answer:
Because from the Book of Genesis, God’s plan was to send Jesus to us, “born of a woman”.  We KNOW God did it the way He chose, in order for us to be able to see Old Testament prophecy fulfilled, to the letter.  This is why Jews still waiting for the Messiah, should KNOW that Jesus came already.  But He just did not come the way they expected: as a military leader.  Everything about Jesus’ life was to fulfill prophecy.

About Jesus’ flesh & the Lord’s Supper:
Angelo, even our own missals indicate that what we are doing is a “memorial” - it’s in the Eucharistic prayers, all of them.  But Jesus did say His flesh was true food and His blood, true drink, and I believe that what we consume at Mass is indeed the Body and Blood of Christ, and we must be reverant and mindful of the fact that we are entering into Communion with our Lord and Savior and with each other.  Non-Catholic Christian churches also are VERY reverant about their Communion Services, and in some places, frankly, they are more reverant than Catholics.

Sorry to have to say that, but it is true.  My Catholic friend told me that they used to have something called ‘patons’ that prevented the host from falling to the floor.  But I have seen numerous times where the host has fallen to the ground, not to mention Eucharistic Ministers that dress, in my opinion, 100% immodestly and inappropriately, for the altar.

The worse case was my friend and I saw a 17 year old girl who was lead minister of the cup.  She was wearing low fitting jeans, a skin-tight T-shirt that crept up, revealing her bare midriff; on her busom were the words, “Catholic Girls…”—but we couldn’t read what it said, because she was too busty, and the message was covered up…

...to top it off, she wore flip-flop zorries beach shoes.

I can tell you for a fact that her choice of clothing would have never been allowed at a non-Catholic Sunday worship Communion Service.  But this girl’s mother is in-like Flynn with the pastor.  So…........
need I say more?

Terah James, Now that is discussion! As for Christ being worshipped, we must worship him according to the way he came to us, Catholics honor him in what best suits their spirituality. Like the anti-abortionist who worships our Lord as being in the womb of his Mother, this strenghtens them in their battle for the unborn and allows them to appreciate their own God given lives. Even St. John the Baptist while in the womb of his Mother St. Elizabeth, leapt for joy at the sound of Mary’s voice. I have argued that nothing in scripture says or suggests he must be worshiped only at the age of 33. As for Mass as a Memorial, it is a memorial in the sense that Christ ordered his first Bishops, the Apostles, to renact what he himself had just done, “Do this in memory of me”, or another way of putting it, Christ was saying, you as the Ordained, the Consecrated, be my ministers in my reenacting my sacrifice to the Father till the end of the world. Melchizedc in the OT offered to God a sacrifice of bread and wine, then gave this prophecy, “From the rising of the sun to its setting a perfect and pure sacrifice will be offered to God”. The Mass is not a new or different Sacrifice, as Christ offered his Sacrifice but once, by Christ’s command his Sacrifice is to be reenacted until the end of the world. Many misinterpret what is meant by the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass as a memorial. Most Protestants, with the exception of some Anglicans, do in fact offer only a memorial. They drink wine and eat bread in memory of Christ’s sacrifice, something like what the Church calls a Spiritual Communion. In the Catholic Church the priest has the power to turn bread into the literal flesh of Christ, and wine into the literal Blood of Christ. The species remain the same, such as the wine still looks like wine, tastes like wine, smells like wine, feels like wine. But it is no longer wine, it is literal Blood and it is the Blood of Christ. At the end of the Consecration the priest says “Mysterium Fidei”, “Mystery of Faith” because it is in fact a Mystery, something we cannot understand but know it by faith in Christs words and actions. The Flesh of Christ is kept in the Tabernacle in what is called a Ciborium. So God is in fact literaly phisicaly present in every Catholic Church, this is the reason for one purifying oneself with Holy Water and genuflecting in adoration.

Terah James, As for the use of the “Paten”, they are still officialy required. Many for the mere sake of Change have done away with its use. I have served Mass in both the Novus Ordo and the Tridentine Mass, and I can say that particles of the Flesh of Christ do indeed fall and they are caught with the Paten. As servers, we must take great care in handling the Paten, after Communion we hand the Paten to the priest. He then looks closely and with his thumb brushes the sacred particles that fell from the Host into the Chalice for the purification. I once found a Host in the Church parking lot, another time I found one in the pews on the floor. Each time I took them to the priest, the priest had a look of horror on his face, this edified me and gave me a greater respect for Christ in the Blessed Sacrament. This is one of the reasons why so many are against Communion in the Hand. If the communicant had received on the tongue this would not have happened. As for how some men/women dress at Mass, it is a disgrace. It was not so at one time, all dressed in a manner befitting respect for God and neighbhor. In my Diocese its my understanding that in the mid 60’s the Bishop granted women permission to wear pants. Women wearing pants was long prohibited. But it was the time of womens fashion being with the dress above the knees. The Bishop is said to have stated that he gave the permission with much regret but that pants were more modest than the way womens fashions had become. I remember in my teenage years I made a mens retreat, things had gotten very liberal. We had as a Retreat Master a Nun. She wore a modified Habit, a skin tight dress, above the knee. She was dressed to kill, and I mean kill our souls. These problems the Church has been trying to address but many women refuse to obey. When one goes to a Tridentine Mass, the way one dresses is very strict. Women are not allowed to wear pants, they must dress modestly and must veil their heads or they are asked to leave. And if they don’t leave on their own, they then are escorted out. What you say about protestant services and the way people dress. It is only too true that they dress with the utmost respect. Catholic females could sure learn from them. I pray for the restoration of Modesty not only at Mass but everywhere else. God Bless!

Terah James, I just wanted to add that in Rome. Modest dress is a strict requirement. Women have blasted the Church because they have been denied entrance into the Basilica of St. Peter by Vatican Guards for immodest dress. Rome has a strict code. No women immodestly dressed are allowed in any of Rome’s Churches. Priests are required to wear the Cassock in the city of Rome, not only in the Churches but on the streets as well. Its sad that both some Priests and women find the need to defy the Church on such matters.

@Angelo:  [“So God is in fact literaly phisicaly present in every Catholic Church.”  He is also literally present “whenever 2 or more gather in His name.”  He is also literally present in the daily life of every Believer.  It is part of your “new life” or the putting on of the “new man” as Scripture tell us.  Jesus said:  “I will put my Spirit in you.”
He said “My” Spirit, Angelo.  You cannot deny these passages without also denying Christ.  He is physically present inside you—NOT just at the Eucharist.

@Angelo:  [“Modest dress is a strict requirement. Women have blasted the Church because they have been denied entrance into the Basilica of St. Peter by Vatican Guards for immodest dress. Rome has a strict code. No women immodestly dressed are allowed in any of Rome’s Churches.”]  Angelo, have you been to any of the great cathedrals in Europe in the last few years?  They parallel the church of Sardis in Revelation 3.

Angelo, Thank you for your post of Friday, Oct 26, 2012 6:16 AM (EST): re: my mother’s devotion to the Christ Child. Your words were very kind. Everyone who defended devotion to the Christ Child warmed my heart both on this article blog and the other one on possession. Seeing Catholics defending their faith reminds me where we are. The National Catholic Register is owned by EWTN now, and EWTN is powered by the prayers of Mother Angelica’s nuns. I’m sure good fruit will come out of these discussion blogs. Since you mention the apparition of Our Lady of Mt Carmel, have you noticed the similarity between that and the Bible passage where Elijah confronted the priests of Baal at Mt Carmel? Remember Elijah set up a test with them to see who is the true God. Each side would ask their god/God to consume a sacrifice. The priests of Baal went first, and they cut themselves, and used a lot of words, but their sacrifice was not consumed. Elijah joked with them, taunting them saying “Has your god gone aside?” One footnote I read said that means, “What happened, did your god go to the rest room?”  Then it was Elijah’s turn, and he poured water all over the sacrifice. He soaked it. He created a moat around the sacrifice, and poured water in it. Then he prayed to God to consume the sacrifice, and it was burned up immediately and ALL THE WATER WAS DRIED UP.  What happened at Fatima while the children were seeing Our Lady of Mt Carmel, and the sun flew down towards the crowd of 70,000 people? It had been raining. Everyone was soaked. But after the sun did its dance, the ground was dry, the people were dry, their umbrellas were dry. It was a sign that the miracle at Fatima was related to Elijah’s sacrifice at Mt Carmel. God was asking the in Jews in the Old Testament and us in the 20th century to make a choice, God or your idol? 
Also it shows that when God accepts a sacrifice He consumes it completely. My mother’s life was like that. She had the plan of life of the “suffering servant.” But by the time she died at age 82, she was a wholly consumed sacrifice. There wasn’t anything she hadn’t given up to God. God bless you. Susan Fox http://christsfaithfulwitness.blogspot.com

Susan Fox, Your welcome. I myself have devotion to our Lord when he was the age of 12. Our Lord at age 12 was lost, St. Joseph and Our Lady after searching for him for 3 days found him in the Temple discusing the things of God, the elders were amazed at him. By sin I lost a great part of Christ, And I beg St. Joseph and Our Lady to help me find him again. To find him again, for me means to be purified and be restored to my Baptismal innocence so I can once again be pleasing to God as I was on the day of my Baptism. It was a joy to hear what you related about your Mother. Relating such matters as you did on Oct. 25 and today gives another soul like myself greater Hope. Is’nt it great how Christ makes himself accessable to each one of us according to our hearts desire? What you said about Our Lady of Mt. Carmel at Fatima and Elijah at Mt. Carmel, makes for a great meditation. Thanks for giving me that thought. Fatima holds many mysteries and this is one of them. According to the first apparition in May 1917, Our Lady asked the Children if they would be willing to offer themselves as a sacrifice, assuring them of much suffering, and assuring them of God’s consolation, and the presence of her Immaculate Heart. Your Mother also offered herself as a sacrifice, I hope your Mother is already in heaven, but I will pray for her Eternal Rest, and she in turn will pray for me. The Communion of Saints, Militant, Suffering and Triumphant. How good God is to us! Your Mothers sufferings, suffered in union with Christ turned out a great daughter. Thank you Susan Fox.

Susan Fox and Angelo -

I would love to read a list of what each of you has to write about this thought:  “This is everything I know about God”.

By it, I mean Who God is, what God is like, how God functions in our lives, and why.  Just a list of everything you know, about God.  You can add to it later.  But off the top, how would you answer this now?

In your own words, no catechism please!  No cut & paste from Catholic Answers either.  Just everything YOU know about God.  Thanks!

I forgot to mention if anyone is writing from the East Cost where “Sandy” is expected to arrive, I’m sure I speak for others in saying our prayers are with you.  Remember Jesus walked on water.  Jesus calmed the sea.  So may your hearts be calm, and your minds find peace, in Him.  This too, shall pass.  Be still, and know that He is God.

Terah James, “no catechism please!”??? How is that possible, before I begin, tell me what the Catechism means to you, without your using the bible. What is your idea of what the Catechism is, forget what others have told you about the Church, do not use any such information. If I should cut & paste it would be the truths of the Catholic Faith. Why would you dictate setting limits and placing rules on how we should answer. I don’t like nor accept your rules. Either I answer my way or I don’t answer at all. What audacity to ask such a question in such a manner, and setting rules and regulations with limits on how we are allowed to answer. Better yet, your question in the eyes of God deserves no answer whatsover. What a ludicrous Insult! Change the subject!

Casting Crowns, In protestant churches people dress very modestly. They are like what Christ said, “White washed tombs, beautiful to behold on the outside, but the inside is filled with rot.”. As for Christ present in the Blessed Sacrament, that is the God given truth, regardless of anyones opposite worthless opinion. All scripture is in fact inspired, according to the Catholic Church. Its to bad many people are not inspired by God at all, as they reject him. God reveals himself in scripture only to those who love him and the Church he established. Those who do not fit this category God promises to spit out.

Casting Crowns and Terah James, It took you 24 hours to brew up this potion in order to poison hearts. As you reason against God and His Church, I will answer you in Spirit and in Truth. You once again failed miserably in attempting to call on the powers of darkness to prevail in the hearts of Faithful Catholics. Terah James, you actualy fooled me with that hypocritical post that sounded sincere. In the future I will know much better about cunning ungodly acts of such people as yourself.

Terah James, everything I know about God would require a book. I don’t have the time. Everything you need to know about God is in the Catechism. You should read the catechism for the answer.
Re: devotion to the Christ Child, God has no “then” versus “now.” God is outside time. All time is present to HIm at once. Therefore worship of God the Son in any of the stages of His life would be pleasing to the Father because it was by His Holy Will that the Son underwent those stages. That’s why the Church teaches that as Christ came the first time, through Mary, so He will come again—through Mary. Once He decides something,  He doesn’t change the way He operates. I think the Second Coming and the manner it will occur is a great mystery except that when He comes again it will be like lightening coming from the east and the west, you won’t be able to miss it.

Angelo, your devotion to the 12 year old Christ is quite beautiful, and your reasons for it.  I know a priest, deceased now, and he was terrified whenever the Blessed Virgin Mary visited him because she wore army boots, and she always had work for him. (He loved her, but she kept him busy) Literally, one of my friends asked him to do her wedding and he said no. So my friend went and knelt before the statue of the Blessed Virgin Mary, and prayed that Father xxxx would do the wedding. The priest turned around and saw her there praying just after he’d said he wouldn’t do it, and he gave her a dirty look, like “you cheated!” Then he did do the wedding.
The Blessed Virgin Mary is very comforting to me. I feel very safe with her.  (Everyone has a unique relationship with God), but the Christ Child (around age 10) wears army boots as far as I’m concerned. When He shows up in my prayer life, I know that I am going to have to change my heart, reform my life, and see my faults clearly and painfully. God the Father is a great comfort as well. I can crawl up into His lap, but I always tell Him He thinks like an alien because he created some very ugly bugs. And I can look at the cute bunnies, or kittens, and say, oh how lovely is Your creation! But then I see some awful bug. The Father is trying to convert me to His viewpoint. I actually was able to see the beauty in a scorpion in my bathtub when we lived in Arizona. It was burgundy and it was a lacy little thing, exquisite in its movements. It was comforting to know that since it was in the bathtub, it couldn’t sting me.

My mother’s name was Tora (Norwegian for tear drop). I’ll ask her to pray for you. We’ve had some miracles that clearly came from her intercession. She died on June 29, the feast of St. Peter and Paul, and on that day we always go to Mass, communion, and ask for something from Mom. She got my son confirmed on her birthday April 10 (we had to struggle with the diocese on that one. They want to confirm them when they are 16, and James was ready at 14). She got my son full tuition scholarship to Ave Maria University. We prayed for it on the June 29 before the year he would apply, and that’s the words I used when my son and I prayed. “Mom, get James a full tuition scholarship.” We got it, but afterwards (and now I am joking) I thought, “Why didn’t I ask for Room and Board too?” Ha Ha.
It’s interesting that as she lay dying, she cried on certain occasions, but only from one eye—giving her the one tear drop look. She cried when my son and I prayed the Rosary over her bed (she couldn’t talk then). She cried when I put on the musician Simonetta. Simonetta writes her music before the Blessed Sacrament and about the Blessed Sacrament. I left the tape running in her room, and when I came back in there was a huge tear running down one side of her face. She was so deeply moved by the music. These were all tears of joy. The moment of her death, she had another little tear, but I recognized her expression, “Isn’t Life Good?” She used to say that all the time. And when it rained, she said, “Isn’t God Good?” It rains a lot in Washington State.
Prayers for my mother will always be welcome even if she is already in heaven. Padre Pio was praying the Rosary one day, and someone asked him who he was praying for. He said, “I am praying for my mother.” And they said, “Where’s your mother Padre?” He responded, “In heaven, of course.” “Padre, Padre, if you mother is in heaven, why are you praying for her?” Padre Pio answered, “If I wasn’t praying this Rosary she wouldn’t already be there!”
God bless you. Susan Fox http://christsfaithfulwitness.blogspot.com

Susan Fox, That was great! When I first prayed for your Mother and asked her intercession, I had a sense of confidence. So your Mother is named Tora. I’m glad to know her name now, in prayer I refered to her as Susans Mom. As for Casting Crowns and Terah James, perhaps it would displease God if we actually listened to them. We must pray and offer sacrifices for them, perhaps it is not their fault. I have spoken to them in the manner that I did, only because I wish that they would open their eyes to the grave insults they give to God, His Church, Sacred Scripture and Tradition. As for our Lady appearing in army boots, I don’t think they were army boots, but a style once worn in Spain. The Infant Jesus of Cebu wears such boots. In statues he looks somewhat like the Infant Child of Prague, but is the Child Jesus of Cebu. The famous statue of him was given to the Phillipines by Spain. Many miracles have been wrought at his shrine in the Phillipines. Now lets see what Christ’s enemies have in store for us.

Angelo:  You have a problem with King Jesus seated on the throne of Grace with power and magesty?  Why do you persist in viewing Jesus as child—a baby in the manger who still needs Joseph and Mary in the incarnation?  He is no longer incarnate.  Joseph and Mary are subject to His authority.  They bow before Him.  He does not report to anyone nor does He need their approval or consultation regarding anything.

Angelo - Please will you tell me exactly what I wrote that offended you?
I do not understand your harsh response to me, based on what I wrote.

Regarding my asking for a catechism to not be used to answer my question, allow me to clarify why I wrote that: I am not interested in Cut & Paste replies from those people that cannot write thoughts in their own words.

My question is to anyone wanting to respond about what *they personally know to be true* about God.  A simple paragraph is what I was looking for.
It could even grow, in time, when people think more about it, and from their own study.

This is why I asked:
I am a big supporter of the suggestion, “Seek first to understand.”  I’ve noticed on NC Register blogs, people spend time thinking, writing and sharing thoughts about issues peripheral to the Christian faith, such as Plenary Indulgences.  But I never hear of anyone sharing a list [in their own words] about what they know to be true about what God revealed to us about Himself. So I wanted to ask.

For anyone interested in responding, you & Susan Fox included - should you be inclined, I’ll ask again for responses from everyone to the query:
“This is everything I know about God.”

As an aside, I find the New Testament epistles of 2 Peter & 1 John are a virtual treasure trove of information on this very topic.  Each letter is short, succinct and powerfully written.

Angelo,
When she was alive, I was known as Tora’s daughter. On my territory, she was known as Susan’s mother. That is actually a valid title for her. We should love and pray for everyone we meet, whether on this site or elsewhere. St. John of the Cross taught us not to make distinctions, but to love all equally. St. Theresa of Avila taught that we should regard all others as greater than ourselves and this is true humility. Then of course there’s Jesus, who told His disciples not just to love their neighbor as themselves, but to love their neighbor as Christ has loved us (to the death). Also to love their enemies. God is the Father of all mankind. It would never displease God to have us listen to His children regardless of their religious orientation unless it interferes with our vocation. (For instance, say you are a young father with 10 children and you are spending time here instead of with your children.) That doesn’t mean that we shouldn’t defend Christ and His Church while we are here, and that is what I hope we have been doing. I lobbied at the UN for the pro-life cause on three occasions, and I am used to people attacking me for my faith.  St. Ignatius of Loyola’s rules of discernment helped me in this matter. St. Ignatius said that as a soul is moving closer to God, the actions of the good Spirit are very soothing, whereas the actions of the evil spirit are disturbing like a finger nail on a chalk board.  That’s a familiar experience for most of us here. When Satan attacks, we get disturbed. But some people are moving away from God and his Church, and for them the actions of the Good Spirit are disturbing like Satan is to us.  They find the actions of the evil spirit on their soul to be comforting. I met people like that at the UN. The pro-abortion feminists and their male counterparts were actually afraid of us meek-as-lamb pro-lifers. Fr. Benedict Groeshel’s grey friars came in and lobbied with us. The feminists became hysterical. They accused the humble grey friars of stalking them and tapping their phones. They complained to the UN leadership and said no one should be allowed into the UN with full religious habit. These men all wore long grey habits and had long beards. Now the grey friars only prayed. I actually did not see them engage in any conversations. However, their presence in full habit truly was terrifying to those moving away from God. So were we pro-life lobbyists.  One sweet girl on my team handed a pro-life document to a delegate who wanted to receive it and a feminist ran up and ripped the document out of the delegate’s hand and tore it up. My team mate was very shaken—it seemed like a very irrational action, but I explained Ignatius to her, and she calmed down. I actually rejoiced with God because He was calling his child (the pro-abortion feminist) back to Him and He got a strike. My team mate with the simple action of handing that document over was an instrument of the Holy Spirit.  We have to see upsets around us as people responding to God’s actions, and not be dismayed or take them personally. This is only in the situation where we are responding to grace and defending Christ. I have lots of day to day interactions with people that are not purely intentioned. I am a human being. I can upset people by being inconsiderate!
I have a friend whose parents asked her to kill them when they became incapacitated and old. She is a Catholic convert and her family is atheist. She was quite horrified, and refused to do so. They became irrationally angry and believed that she had betrayed them. She was shocked and deeply hurt that her family, mother, father brother would so thoroughly reject her. But objectively you can see that the family were souls moving away from God, making decisions totally contrary to His will for a very long time. And she was moving in the opposite direction—toward God. So they actually saw her response (coming from God’s direction) as vile and evil. They saw her as a Judas. She—not understanding spiritually where they were—was hurt. Once I explained Ignatius to her, she could see it objectively and it hurt less. Interesting, she is making progress moving her mother back to a relationship with God. So that situation is turning around.
I did a lot of door to door evangelization and in the Legion of Mary they taught us that to the extent that people receive you with joy even if they are Protestant or Buddhist, these people are moving towards God. And the opposite is true. I have seen this dynamic in effect so many times. When the family visited rejects us, they reject Christ, not us personally. Now I’m sure there’s some abrasive people in the Legion of Mary who may have gotten rejected for their personality, but generally speaking the principle holds especially if they are following the rules—to see and serve Christ in the persons we meet (John of the Cross and Jesus)  Anyway you can understand why there are people in our culture who actually look at us devout pro life Catholics and Christians and think we are evil. Remember Barach Obama’s comment about us being angry right wing Bible thumpers clinging to God and our guns. That said more about his spiritual state than it did about us. If Christians had discernment, none of them would have voted for him. People in our culture always try to blame it on a Christian when an abortion clinic is attacked or an abortionist killed. It always turns out to be someone with mental problems. When Abby Gifford was shot in Tucson, AZ, they blamed Sarah Palin (she’s a good devout Protestant who has shown feminists you can have it all, a political career, a handsome husband, a large family, and she didn’t kill her disabled child)  So they think they hate Sarah Palin. They don’t hate Sarah Palin! They really hate God, and they are trying to get away from HIm. So they blame people who witness to God. We really can’t take any of this personally. The guy who did shoot at Abby Gifford was just crazy and had no political affiliation. Same thing with the theatre shooting here in Denver. They looked up the name of the accused killer, James Holmes (pray for him), and found a Tea Party Member with the same name and blamed the Tea Party! St. Theresa of Avila’s Interior Castle shows us that where people are spiritually affects their response to us. Those furtherest from Christ were unable to hear His voice and lived among the monsters. As the soul drew closer to God, they began to hear HIs voice faintly, until finally He was enthroned in their hearts. Imagine you are in one of the rooms near Christ, can hear Him clearly and you are dealing with people in other rooms. They can’t hear what you hear. They can’t understand what you understand, and it’s not entirely their fault. No one can move up to that level unless God draw him. You can fast, pray, love everyone, but it is God’s choice to bring you up or not. I can remember one priest was giving a retreat, and he was speaking on the unitive level, and I told God, “I can’t understand a word he is saying. Why can’t I understand?” The priest stopped talking, looked at me, and said rather angrily, “Why are you still on the Purgative Level?” Then God intervened and told the priest the answer quietly. And Father goes “Oh, that’s because it’s where God wants you!” So I remember being one of those persons in the far outer rooms of the interior castle, and I couldn’t hear the voice of Christ, and when I was there, my only protection was obedience, obedience to His Catholic Church. Even now that is my only protection because anyone can become too cocky, not trust God, and ping! drop into mortal sin. That’s what it means about working out your salvation through fear and trembling.
That is interesting what you had to say about the Infant Jesus of Cebu wearing boots. The boot image just means the person coming is tough and you’d better be ready to change your heart! It’s somewhat of a joke. But it’s weird that it happens that way for me, and otherwise for my mother. She was afraid to approach God the Father directly except that He came as a Child, and then she could be the child of the Baby Jesus, no fear there. I do love the Child Jesus of Atocha? In Spain and Mexico they have the devotion to this Child who apparently went into prison and brought food to the prisoners there. That seems like the way my mother imitated Christ. My whole childhood I was dragged to the nursing home or to visit the sick. It paid off. When I was in high school, one of my girl friends and I accompanied my mother to visit one very unpleasant bedridden old lady. I didn’t think anything about it, having seen her many times before, but my girl friend almost fainted. Then I realized it’s good that I am used to doing this! (By the way my mother visited this lady for 12 years, 15 minutes a week. It was the lady’s only relationship until she died. Mom brought her little gifts, a radio, romance novels, Mom became like a Mom to this elderly woman. After seven years of visits, the woman embraced the Catholic faith. Mom only stopped visiting when her family moved her out of town. She’s dead now.

God bless you. Angelo.Your answers always showed a deep love and appreciation for the Catholic faith, and different saints have different personalities. Padre Pio was easily enraged, but usually only at sinners who needed it. (He was in a lot of pain from the stigmata) I imagine St. Francis was sweet and enthusiastic and they thought he was a nutcake. Jesus wasn’t any kind of pansy. He said, “YOu are like whitened sepulchres, all pretty and white on the outside, but rotting from within!” Wow that would blow me away. That is not nice. I love the fact that Jesus is not always nice. Sometimes Satan will attack someone very close to God, and use their personality. I have been hated and loved for my laugh. It is neither good nor bad, it is simply my laugh, but I have been actually rejected for my laugh. In other places, people said I want to tape your laugh, and when I am sad, I will play it back and listen to it, so your voice will cheer me up.
I know I have gone away from excellent Legion of Mary calls where I was really able to reach the person and talk to them about Jesus, and the first thought that came into my mind was, “You talk too much!” I had to discern if this was Satan or if it was God. If it’s God, I make an act of contrition (but He never accuses anyone in that tone of voice. God’s correction is always always encouraging), and if it’s Satan, I offer it up as a suffering. You can tell by the size of the posts, I clearly can talk too much! But did I do what I was supposed to when I made that visit?  In that case, I think I decided just to offer up the suffering of thinking I did wrong.
God bless you. Susan Fox http://christsfaithfulwitness.blogspot.com

Terah James,
That you are thinking about this is very intriguing. Why don’t you answer your question first and talk to us about 2 peter and 1 John. I’d love to hear it. God bless you. Susan Fox

Casting Crowns, I have no problem with Jesus Christ the King. I have no problem in worshipping Christ whether in the womb of his Blessed Mother, nor Christ at age 33, nor with Christ the King at age 2,012. I do not have the problem, with all due respect you are the one who has the problem. If you reject the Church founded by Christ, why come on this site to spread your errors?

Terah James, I love the Church founded by Christ, when anyone contradicts her teachings, then I am offended. You ask what I think of God. I will tell you that the Catechism is for the purpose of instructing us of the truth. We do not invent our own ideas of what the truth is, that is called protestanism. You ask for at least a paragraph. I will answer you. But first I want you to tell me why you want know. Is it for a sincere reason, or only to continue your attacks against the Holy Roman Catholic Church founded by Jesus Christ? No more trick questions. You wrote a post to me that sounded sincere. You proved it was not sincere at all, it was a trick on your part. So you must understand why I don’t trust you,

@Susan Fox – I’ve given this a lot of thought lately & even prayed to understand the Holy Trinity more.  This is what I’ve gleaned—my own observations, but based on credible sources & from God’s word.  I compiled this list last week, later seeing 2 Peter and 1 John’s letters.  So this was handy!  I may add more to it, as time goes by, as I learn more. My answer to the question, “Tell me everything you know about God?”
 

God’s Nature:
God is completely holy: set apart from everything & everyone else.
God is Spirit
God is Love
God is Life, and Light and Truth.
 

God revealed Himself to us as Three Persons, in One Godhead.  Each Person is co-equal, co-eternal, & co-existent.
 

Our Triune Godhead is omniscient (knows everything) omnipotent (all powerful, with control over nature & everything He created) & omnipresent (everywhere at all times).  Our God is immutable (He never changes, the same yesterday, today, and forever).
 

Our God’s personality is compassionate & patient, long-suffering & slow to anger, generous & gracious, gentle & forgiving, righteous & just.  God actively reaches out to people, revealing Himself to us, to save us from ourselves.  God has found creative ways to reach out to people for over 6,000 years throughout recorded history.  God is relational within Himself.  God wants a relationship with us too, wanting us to know Him as He is.  God wants us to know Him, understand Him, and realize that He is “The Lord” of all.
 

Our God called Himself the Great “I Am”.  He is the God of Abraham, Isaac, Jacob and King David, a covenant-making God that keeps His promises forever, & for His own Names’ sake.  God remains Faithful to us, even when we are unfaithful, & for His own sake.  God was first the Father of the nation of Israel, to whom He still remains faithful.  But after Jesus’ sacrifice on our behalf at Calvary, at the fullness of time, God can be our Father too.  We have access to our Father, knowing this from the documented events that happened during the Crucifixion.  There is salvation by the Blood of Jesus.  By His shed Blood, and by His wounds, we are “healed”: adopted into God’s holy Family, given the gift & the privilege of calling our God, “Abba”, meaning Father, where we are no longer His servants, and alienated from Him, but rather we are His children, His heirs, & close. 

God revealed Himself to us as Father, Son and Holy Spirit.  Each Person is in relationship with each other; and each has a different function and role, in the One Triune Godhead.  Theirs is like any other family structure, where there are different people, with different roles.  Theirs is to be the model for us, to illustrate the principle of family, and of a covenant, such as a marriage covenant.  Jesus is referred to The Groom; the Church (collectively) is referred to as Jesus’ Bride.  Jesus is coming again, for His Bride.  We, the Church, are to be waiting, anticipating His coming for us – be it through our death [“Absent from the body, present with the Lord.”] or through His second coming.  It is documented that at His Ascension, the angel told the apostles Jesus would come again, in the same manner in which He rose into Heaven, at the last days.

The Father is the Most High, who hears and answers prayer, and it is His will that is to be done by everyone.  Even Jesus did the Father’s will, putting aside His own will and being submissive to the Father, when Jesus became Incarnate (the Word of God, made Flesh).  The Father disciplines people, and His love for justice results in people seeing His wrath, when what He instructs people or the nation of Israel to do is not obeyed.  The Father is particular, and specific about what He wants from people.  Everyone is to live life His way, and for His glory.  But the Father takes pity on His people, always providing a way for us, and the nation of Israel, to come back to Him.  Israel was to be an instrument used by God to draw and teach other nations and peoples about God, their Father and their King.  But Israel turned from God at every chance; even today, only a remnant “hear” and “see” that Jesus is the promised Messiah, even though in their own Hebrew Scriptures, Jesus’ life fulfilled over 300 Old Testament prophecies, and the statistics of that happening are astronomical.  But right now is The Church Age, and the “time of the Gentiles” where people of all nations and cultures are hearing God’s word, and coming to Him, through “The Gospel”, otherwise known as the “Good News”.  The Father waits.
 

His Son, Jesus, called the Son of the Most High, is the Redeemer, the Word of God made an incarnate Man, Who promised to dwell with us forever, through the Holy Spirit.  By Jesus, all things were made; through Him all things were made, and for Him, all things were made.  Jesus is our Advocate to the Father, through our prayer.  Jesus is our Brother, the “first-born” of the Family of God.  He said, “Because I live, you will live also”.  We are spiritually alive in Jesus the Christ, the Messiah, the Holy One of Israel promised since the Creation of the world, because the Holy Spirit entered into our hearts, making us part of God’s Family, giving us a new ‘spiritual DNA’.  So no matter what our physical families are like, or were like, we have a new (and perfectly holy) spiritual Family: God our Father, & Jesus, our Brother.  We are to abide “in Jesus”, living “in Him”, with Jesus being The Vine, and we (the Church), the Branches.  The Father is the Vine Dresser – tending to the branches health, and ensuring growth.
 

The Holy Spirit is called the Counselor and the Comforter.  He is the Author of Life and our Sustainer.  We have intimacy with God because the Holy Spirit quickens our hearts, souls and minds, into new Life in the Spirit, helping us pray, even when words fail us.  He reads our hearts, and through silent groaning and His insight into the emotions of our hearts and souls, when we have no words to communicate with the Father, the Spirit “speaks” with the Father for us.  It can be wordless communication.  The Holy Spirit seals us, and enters into our hearts when we accept Jesus as our Lord and Savior, and He leads and guides us into Truth = who is Jesus, and He promised to never to leave us or forsake us, ever.  We can grieve and quench the Holy Spirit.  So we can know the Holy Spirit is indeed a Person, because only a person can grieve.  Upon entering into our hearts, after we accept Jesus as our Lord, the Holy Spirit gives us Gifts, so we can build up the Body of Christ, and lead others to Jesus, and it is the Holy Spirit that brings us into Eternal Life with the Triune Godhead, in Heaven, upon our physical death, because we were “sealed” by Him, a “deposit”, that He carries to completion, throughout our lives.  The Holy Spirit does not forfeit a deposit (like a person buying a home that gives a good faith deposit – it is not forfeited).  Our gifts are to be used to help the Body of Christ grow.  Our gifts are not to be hidden, or kept for us only.  Our gifts are to be shared.

Gifts are such things like: teaching, preaching, mercy, giving of resources, etc. to build up His Body, the Church.
 

Why did God go through all this trouble to reveal Himself?  Everyone is born once, physically.  But we all have sinned.  We have all broken God’s commands.  If we put two babies together and give them one cookie, they fight for it & cry, demanding it be theirs.  So a selfish and sinful is our natural bent.  The wages for sin is physical death.  To make matters worse, we are all born spiritually dead.  None of us look to God.  We all look to the world – which is anti-God.  So unless we are “re-born” spiritually, by hearing the Word of God, and accepting it, we will die twice in our lives: once physically, and if we remain dead spiritually, and die in that state, at the very end of time, we die spiritually too, and officially - meaning it is eternal separation from God, the absence of Light.
 

But the Father made a way for everyone to have access to Him: Jesus’ death on Calvary, by admitting we are sinners, submitting our wills to Jesus [as Jesus submitted His will to His Father] and willingly nailing our sins to His Cross.  By doing so, we are spiritually “reborn”, as Jesus told Nicodemus.  We gradually become transformed into new people, by the renewing of our minds.  We will see “good fruit” as a result of our faith in Jesus (like the Book of James documents: “Faith without works is dead.”)  Since we are still human, we will still sin.  But we have an Advocate with the Father (Jesus) who knows our flaws and failings, and when we confess our sin to Him, He is faithful and just to forgive.  We are called upon to also forgive others, as we have been forgiven.

We live to WANT to please Jesus.  It is impossible to say we have faith, and that Jesus is our Lord, and then live a life of unrepentant sin.  There is no way we can run from God, or hide from God.  Our lives are totally exposed to Him, and He sees us, in total light.  That thought would creep me out, before I came to Christ.  But now I find it comforting.
 

When we are “in Christ”, we begin to see life and people from God’s perspective, from an eternal perspective.  We hide God’s word in our hearts, much like Mary, the Blessed Mother, did when it is written that she “hid those things in her heart”.  Psalm 119 tells us to hide God’s word in our hearts, so we will be equipped to handle temptation, and other tests that may come to us as a result of living life.  We can choose not to sin, by meditating on God’s truths, praying over them, chewing on what they mean, and thinking about how people that went before us handled their problems and concerns. 
 

Trusting God and Obeying God pleases Him.  The Old Testament shows us how God always responded, when people took the time to read His word, and to know Him and to obey Him.  It’s all over the Hebrew Scriptures, even with little King Josiah (King at age 8) and with Hezekiah, and all those leaders that respected God and His holy word.  No one is more knowledgeable of God than King David!  The Psalms tell us God’s mind.
 

It was after Solomon prayed that word came from God saying, “If my people who are called by My Name, will humble themselves and pray, and seek my Face, and turn from their wicked ways, then I will hear from Heaven, and I will forgive their sins, and I will heal their land.” – I think that’s from 2nd Chronicles.  It’s a promise.

God never changes.  We are called by His Name: Christians.  While not everything in His word is written TO us, all of Scripture is written FOR us, and that’s a good verse to memorize, holding it in our hearts, and pondering it, as Mary pondered what she heard. 

Susan Fox, On knowing whether an inspiration comes from God or the devil. St. Catherine of Sienna in her Diologue with God, asked God this question. God gave a sure answer. He said if we receive an inspiration and our first impulse is joy, followed by confusion, that it is definatley from satan. But if we receive an inspiration which at first gives us fear, followed by a great desire to love and serve God, then the inspiration definatley comes from heaven. Terah James and Casting Crowns, never have anything good to say about Christs Catholic Church. They spread contradiction after contradiction. They are not in search of God’s truth, they wish to convince us that their rediculous errors are the truth. The conversations with them have gotten us nowhere. Theirs is only spreading their heresies, and claiming it to be God’s truth. From now on If I answer them it will only be to bring to their attention that hersey is not appreciated on a Catholic Site. Both Terah James and Casting Crowns should go and preach to the muslims. Remember that Christ during his Passion was asked questions similar to those of Terah James and Casting Crowns. Our Lord refused to answer them and remained silent. We must imitate Our Lord in all things, it is he who said, “learn from me for I am meek and humble of heart. Some think that humility means being a pansy, it is not. “Truth is humility and humility is truth” Many times humility means to valiantly take out the double edged sword of truth. The wounds it causes are meant for healing in Christ.

@Susan Fox – I’ve given this a lot of thought lately & even prayed to understand the Holy Trinity more.  This is what I’ve gleaned—my own observations, but based on credible sources & from God’s word.  I compiled this list last week, later seeing 2 Peter and 1 John’s letters.  So this was handy!  I may add more to it, as time goes by, as I learn more. My answer to the question, “Tell me everything you know about God?”
 
God’s Nature:
God is completely holy: set apart from everything & everyone else.
God is Spirit
God is Love
God is Life, and Light and Truth.
 
God revealed Himself to us as Three Persons, in One Godhead.  Each Person is co-equal, co-eternal, & co-existent.
 
Our Triune Godhead is omniscient (knows everything) omnipotent (all powerful, with control over nature & everything He created) & omnipresent (everywhere at all times).  Our God is immutable (He never changes, the same yesterday, today, and forever).
 
Our God’s personality is compassionate & patient, long-suffering & slow to anger, generous & gracious, gentle & forgiving, righteous & just.  God actively reaches out to people, revealing Himself to us, to save us from ourselves.  God has found creative ways to reach out to people for over 6,000 years throughout recorded history.  God is relational within Himself.  God wants a relationship with us too, wanting us to know Him as He is.  God wants us to know Him, understand Him, and realize that He is “The Lord” of all.
 
Our God called Himself the Great “I Am”.  He is the God of Abraham, Isaac, Jacob and King David, a covenant-making God that keeps His promises forever, & for His own Names’ sake.  God remains Faithful to us, even when we are unfaithful, & for His own sake.  God was first the Father of the nation of Israel, to whom He still remains faithful.  But after Jesus’ sacrifice on our behalf at Calvary, at the fullness of time, God can be our Father too.  We have access to our Father, knowing this from the documented events that happened during the Crucifixion.  There is salvation by the Blood of Jesus.  By His shed Blood, and by His wounds, we are “healed”: adopted into God’s holy Family, given the gift & the privilege of calling our God, “Abba”, meaning Father, where we are no longer His servants, and alienated from Him, but rather we are His children, His heirs, & close. 

God revealed Himself to us as Father, Son and Holy Spirit.  Each Person is in relationship with each other; and each has a different function and role, in the One Triune Godhead.  Theirs is like any other family structure, where there are different people, with different roles.  Theirs is to be the model for us, to illustrate the principle of family, and of a covenant, such as a marriage covenant.  Jesus is referred to The Groom; the Church (collectively) is referred to as Jesus’ Bride.  Jesus is coming again, for His Bride.  We, the Church, are to be waiting, anticipating His coming for us – be it through our death [“Absent from the body, present with the Lord.”] or through His second coming.  It is documented that at His Ascension, the angel told the apostles Jesus would come again, in the same manner in which He rose into Heaven, at the last days.

The Father is the Most High, who hears and answers prayer, and it is His will that is to be done by everyone.  Even Jesus did the Father’s will, putting aside His own will and being submissive to the Father, when Jesus became Incarnate (the Word of God, made Flesh).  The Father disciplines people, and His love for justice results in people seeing His wrath, when what He instructs people or the nation of Israel to do is not obeyed.  The Father is particular, and specific about what He wants from people.  Everyone is to live life His way, and for His glory.  But the Father takes pity on His people, always providing a way for us, and the nation of Israel, to come back to Him.  Israel was to be an instrument used by God to draw and teach other nations and peoples about God, their Father and their King.  But Israel turned from God at every chance; even today, only a remnant “hear” and “see” that Jesus is the promised Messiah, even though in their own Hebrew Scriptures, Jesus’ life fulfilled over 300 Old Testament prophecies, and the statistics of that happening are astronomical.  But right now is The Church Age, and the “time of the Gentiles” where people of all nations and cultures are hearing God’s word, and coming to Him, through “The Gospel”, otherwise known as the “Good News”.  The Father waits.
 
His Son, Jesus, called the Son of the Most High, is the Redeemer, the Word of God made an incarnate Man, Who promised to dwell with us forever, through the Holy Spirit.  By Jesus, all things were made; through Him all things were made, and for Him, all things were made.  Jesus is our Advocate to the Father, through our prayer.  Jesus is our Brother, the “first-born” of the Family of God.  He said, “Because I live, you will live also”.  We are spiritually alive in Jesus the Christ, the Messiah, the Holy One of Israel promised since the Creation of the world, because the Holy Spirit entered into our hearts, making us part of God’s Family, giving us a new ‘spiritual DNA’.  So no matter what our physical families are like, or were like, we have a new (and perfectly holy) spiritual Family: God our Father, & Jesus, our Brother.  We are to abide “in Jesus”, living “in Him”, with Jesus being The Vine, and we (the Church), the Branches.  The Father is the Vine Dresser – tending to the branches health, and ensuring growth.
 
The Holy Spirit is called the Counselor and the Comforter.  He is the Author of Life and our Sustainer.  We have intimacy with God because the Holy Spirit quickens our hearts, souls and minds, into new Life in the Spirit, helping us pray, even when words fail us.  He reads our hearts, and through silent groaning and His insight into the emotions of our hearts and souls, when we have no words to communicate with the Father, the Spirit “speaks” with the Father for us.  It can be wordless communication.  The Holy Spirit seals us, and enters into our hearts when we accept Jesus as our Lord and Savior, and He leads and guides us into Truth = who is Jesus, and He promised to never to leave us or forsake us, ever.  We can grieve and quench the Holy Spirit.  So we can know the Holy Spirit is indeed a Person, because only a person can grieve.  Upon entering into our hearts, after we accept Jesus as our Lord, the Holy Spirit gives us Gifts, so we can build up the Body of Christ, and lead others to Jesus, and it is the Holy Spirit that brings us into Eternal Life with the Triune Godhead, in Heaven, upon our physical death, because we were “sealed” by Him, a “deposit”, that He carries to completion, throughout our lives.  The Holy Spirit does not forfeit a deposit (like a person buying a home that gives a good faith deposit – it is not forfeited).  Our gifts are to be used to help the Body of Christ grow.  Our gifts are not to be hidden, or kept for us only.  Our gifts are to be shared. Gifts are such things like: teaching, preaching, mercy, giving of resources, etc. to build up His Body, the Church.
 
Why did God go through all this trouble to reveal Himself?  Everyone is born once, physically.  But we all have sinned.  We have all broken God’s commands.  If we put two babies together and give them one cookie, they fight for it & cry, demanding it be theirs.  So a selfish and sinful is our natural bent.  The wages for sin is physical death.  To make matters worse, we are all born spiritually dead.  None of us look to God.  We all look to the world – which is anti-God.  So unless we are “re-born” spiritually, by hearing the Word of God, and accepting it, we will die twice in our lives: once physically, and if we remain dead spiritually, and die in that state, at the very end of time, we die spiritually too, and officially - meaning it is eternal separation from God, the absence of Light.
 
But the Father made a way for everyone to have access to Him: Jesus’ death on Calvary, by admitting we are sinners, submitting our wills to Jesus [as Jesus submitted His will to His Father] and willingly nailing our sins to His Cross.  By doing so, we are spiritually “reborn”, as Jesus told Nicodemus.  We gradually become transformed into new people, by the renewing of our minds.  We will see “good fruit” as a result of our faith in Jesus (like the Book of James documents: “Faith without works is dead.”)  Since we are still human, we will still sin.  But we have an Advocate with the Father (Jesus) who knows our flaws and failings, and when we confess our sin to Him, He is faithful and just to forgive.  We are called upon to also forgive others, as we have been forgiven.

We live to WANT to please Jesus.  It is impossible to say we have faith, and that Jesus is our Lord, and then live a life of unrepentant sin.  There is no way we can run from God, or hide from God.  Our lives are totally exposed to Him, and He sees us, in total light.  That thought would creep me out, before I came to Christ.  But now I find it comforting.
 
When we are “in Christ”, we begin to see life and people from God’s perspective, from an eternal perspective.  We hide God’s word in our hearts, much like Mary, the Blessed Mother, did when it is written that she “hid those things in her heart”.  Psalm 119 tells us to hide God’s word in our hearts, so we will be equipped to handle temptation, and other tests that may come to us as a result of living life.  We can choose not to sin, by meditating on God’s truths, praying over them, chewing on what they mean, and thinking about how people that went before us handled their problems and concerns. 
 
Trusting God and Obeying God pleases Him.  The Old Testament shows us how God always responded, when people took the time to read His word, and to know Him and to obey Him.  It’s all over the Hebrew Scriptures, even with little King Josiah (King at age 8) and with Hezekiah, and all those leaders that respected God and His holy word.  No one is more knowledgeable of God than King David!  The Psalms tell us God’s mind.
 
It was after Solomon prayed that word came from God saying, “If my people who are called by My Name, will humble themselves and pray, and seek my Face, and turn from their wicked ways, then I will hear from Heaven, and I will forgive their sins, and I will heal their land.” – I think that’s from 2nd Chronicles.  It’s a promise.

God never changes.  We are called by His Name: Christians.  While not everything in His word is written TO us, all of Scripture is written FOR us, and that’s a good verse to memorize, holding it in our hearts, and pondering it, as Mary pondered what she heard.

@Angelo:  [“when anyone contradicts her teachings, then I am offended.”]  Very typical of you, Angelo.  When I provided you an example of a contradiction requested your reply, you ignored it.  Why is that when you are challenged you crawl into your standard rhetoric of people “hating” the church, hating Mary, et al.  Continually repeating Catholic doctrine is not a defense of faith.  Being offended is not worth a cup of coffee so I am not impressed with your being offended.  Why are you unable to present a mature, reasoned defense of the faith without throwing a tantrum?

Thank you Angelo for the discernment from St. Catherine of Sienna. It is a good thing to remember, and very true.  What you do on this site is your business. May God bless you. Susan Fox

Casting Crowns, When I am challenged on my Catholic faith I do not dodge the challenge. You have spoken on topics where your view is not in line with the teachings of the Church. You continue to repeat the same errors after errors, and I respond with the truth that Christ teaches through his Church. Your anger is that there are those of us Catholics you are unable to convince to accept protestant falshood. It was you who asked how you offended me. I answered, and now you wish to make me look foolish. When one strikes at Christ and his Church, his unworthy servant is offended, and remembers that by the Sacrament of Confirmation I am a soldier of Christ. Very cunning how you wrote that last post, to those who have not read your blasphemous previous posts, they would actually believe you. But to those that have read your posts, you have once again proven yourself the “Gente Non Sancta” that you are.

Casting Crowns, I see it was Terah James who asked me how I was offended. But nevertheless the same holds true to you. You can catch unsuspecting Catholics off guard and turn them like youself. But when one loves the Catholic Church he studies what she is all about. And when someone comes with the poison of evil against the Church they follow the Counsil of St. Paul, “Be ever ready to give an answer for your faith”. When I quote from the Doctrine of the Church, it is because what the Church says is infinatly more powerful than anything I could say in my own words. Perhaps if you quote the Doctrines of the Church yourself, your eyes will open up and you will be able to see.

Terah James, I am ready to give you a brief answer to your question on what I understand about God. God is a Mystery, we know he exists. God is the creator of all that exists. He created each one of us, calling us forth before he created the world. He has given each one of us a mission in life. We are called to fulfill the mission he has given us to perfection. Life is a pilgrimage, we are passing through a phase which will determine our eternal destiny, heaven or hell. God created the Angels who are spirits, some of these spirits fell from God’s grace because of the sin of pride. Mary was their downfall, God annouced to the Angels that he would create his most perfect creation and that she would be called “Woman”. Lucifer at that time was the most perfect of God’s creation, he and his followers could not bear the fact that there would be a created being more perfect than they, so they rebelled. The battle broke out in heaven, the battle was an intellectual battle, St. Michael led the good Angels into victory, Michael means “Who is like God”. From this comes the fact that there are good spirits who wish to lead us to heaven. At the same time there are the evil spirits who wish to lead us to damnation along with themselves. Adam and Eve were created, Eve was a “Woman”. satan believed that this was the woman God fortold. Which is why he tempted her to fall. After the fall, hell thought it defeated God’s plan. God in punishing Eve told her about her offspring the “Woman”. Evil came to realize that Eve was not the “Woman” God had fortold. From then he sought the damnation of all souls in the hopes of capturing the “Woman” and Her child. What I have said so far is an introduction to Salvation History. There were men through history whom God chose to lead his people, never abandoning Humans made in his image and likeness. When the appointed time came, God created the “Woman” who gave birth to the promised saviour, Jesus the Christ, God made Man. It was only at the death of our Lord on the Cross that satan came to realize that Mary was the Woman, and that Jesus was God himself. Since then he has waged battle against the children of the Woman, “And the dragon was angered at the Woman, and went to wage war with her offspring, her offspring being those who keep the commandments of God, and hold fast to the testimony of Jesus.” Apocalypse 12:17. The Woman has more power than he. Her power is her perfect humility and her perfect love. Christ came to save us, he established a Church to safely guide man to their true home which is heaven. As God always chose leaders for his people, by divine institution he chose a Man to lead his people until the end of the world, his name was Simon, and in the tradition of the OT God changed his name to Peter. Upon the death of the first Peter a successor to him is chosen, we call him the Pope, who has from God the “Blessing” and the guidance of the Holy Ghost to lead God’s people. Each mans destiny is heaven, but many lose heaven by their own choice. By their own choice in rejecting God and his commandments, “As a man lives so shall he die”. If we live in rejection of God in all that he commands we will die rejecting him for eternity. Jesus Christ founded his Catholic Church for the purpose of leading us to eternity with him in heaven. The Catholic Church believes in all that Christ commanded. The Catholic Church is necessary for salvation, there are many who do not know this, through no fault of their own, but if they do God’s will which is in their conscience, when they die, they in fact die belonging to Christs Church. Life is given to us by God for the purpose of seeking his Kingdom, and that we may live eternaly with him in heaven. Doing God’s will by doing what his Church tells us, all falls in perfectly like a puzzle, all leads to the one Truth, Way and Life who is the Triune God Eternal. Terah James, this is my belief in God, in a very brief manner.

Angelo, I complied these quotes from you wrote, those specific to God:
****************************************************************

“God is a Mystery, we know he exists. God is the creator of all that exists. He created each one of us, calling us forth before he created the world. He has given each one of us a mission in life.”

“God created the Angels who are spirits…”

“There were men through history whom God chose to lead his people, never abandoning Humans made in his image and likeness.”

“When the appointed time came, God created the “Woman” who gave birth to the promised saviour, Jesus the Christ, God made Man.”

“Christ came to save us, he established a Church to safely guide man to their true home which is heaven.”

“Life is given to us by God for the purpose of seeking his Kingdom, and that we may live eternaly with him in heaven. Doing God’s will by doing what his Church tells us, all falls in perfectly like a puzzle, all leads to the one Truth, Way and Life who is the Triune God Eternal.”
****************************************************************

Thank you for answering my question.  You may even want to add to your list of things you know about God later.  I very much enjoyed making the list, and I find it very helpful.

Susan Fox responded to my query on another blog, and she may want to include it on this one too, as she also put time and thought into what she knows about God.  Thank you, Susan!  Thank you, Angelo!

By the way, my comment posted twice because, I think, due to the length of it, I first got a “potential spam” message.  That’s never happened before - so I think it was just because I wrote so much!  It was great though, and the NC Reg is a great place to share thoughts, so thank you to all!

Terah James, Thank You! I never done this before. I must tell you that it was fun and I learned many things about my own spiritual life. I have had so much sadness for years thinking how I don’t love God as I should. After writing the comment you requested I realized that I do love God with all my mind, heart, soul and strenght. This was a great consolation for me. As a Third Order Carmelite we are required at one point or another to write our experience of our relationship with God. I think that time has come. Terah James I’m sorry I did not trust you, after seeing what you wrote, I thought Terah James is not playing a trick, she is serious. I thank God for using you as the instrument to rid myself of so much doubt in my love for God. God Bless you abundantly!

I’m so glad my suggestion was helpful to you, Angelo.  I think no one loves God as we “should”, because we’re just human.  But God knows our hearts, and thanks be to Him, for that!  Only He loves perfectly.

Also good thing we have the Holy Spirit helping us, after we turn to Jesus, and that Jesus died for us “while we were still sinners”; there is no way we can surprise a Soveriegn God!  It’s comforting that He knows our sitting down and our rising up.  He formed us in our mother’s wombs, and He’s with us, forever, till we’re home in Heaven with Him.

Goo thing that although we CAN grieve the Holy Spirit, He remains faithful to us, and no one can snatch us from His palm, His little children are like the pupils of His Eye (a metaphore, of course, as God has no real eye.)  He who is in us is greater than he who is in the world!
Thanks be to God!

What a blessing it was for me to know what I asked everyone encouraged you to just begin writing what you were asked to do by the Carmelites!  That is indeed a Holy Spirit-inspired moment.  Also, I was thrilled that you were asked to write about God and your relationship with Him too!

Somewhere in Scripture it says when we draw near to Jesus, He draws nearer to us. When we reach up to Jesus, He has already been reaching down, from Heaven, toward us, and Our Father is as close to His little children(you & me) than our own breath.  I find that so comforting.

I’m grateful for your kind words and for your generous blessing on me, which I accept, and for which I give Jesus the glory!  It reminds me of Casting Crowns blog name: so right here on earth and today, I just cast that crown of thankfulness, recognition, and blessing you graciously gave to me today, at the Precious Feet of our King, Jesus! 

Angelo - what a wonderful example you are to your children, to be such a man that loves Jesus, and who looks to Him for guidance, and as a role model.  Your daughter is being shown what a God-honoring man looks like. You, sir, are an inspiration, and a rarity, in this day and age, and among all western cultures.  It concerns me that more men are not with their families on Sunday, at Mass, not to mention that more men (and this goes across the board of Christianity) are not the spiritual leaders of their families.

Yet, women find that VERY attractive in men. It’s not anti-feminist to say that.  Look at ALL the people in the Old Testament and in the New, and you’ll find MEN that were LEADERS, and each had a relationship with God, Who revealed Himself to them, reaching out to them.  It just takes those first steps, and God honors an attempt to know more about Him and to get closer to Him.

Years ago, I saw an embroidered art work for a child’s room that read, “Please be patient with me.  God isn’t finished with me yet.”
Since we are all children to our Sovereign Triune God, we are all still children, still growing in knowlege of Him and of each other.

So thanks for sharing your thoughts about Him with us, Angelo.  Have a lovely weekend, and we’ll all pray for God’s blessing on our nation next week, so that we can turn to Him, humbly and in obedience for what we know He asks of us.  I think everyone on this blog supports the 5 non-negotiables!

God help us all, for the next generation of Americans & Christians, such as your own little family.  I applaud you, for leading them to God the Father, and to His Truth, through Jesus, & by the same power of the Holy Spirit, that raised Jesus from the dead!

Terah James, I thank you for your recent post. It is true what you say, we will never love God as we should. But now this darkness that I feared of not loving God has been dispersed. I have another darkness that is within myself. I began to take my Catholic faith seriously at age 15, that was 38 years ago. The darkness of which I speak is that through the past years I have fallen over and over again. But each time making use of Confession which strenghtens me. By reading what the great spiritual writers of the Church have written, I understand that my disturbance is the sin of pride on my part. As I can do nothing without Christ and I have been depending on myself. Recently Bishop Bernard Fellay of the SSPX stated, “We know this, when there is disturbance, it comes from satan.”, though I knew this I seem to have forgotten it. A friend of mine used to say to me, “I have never known anyone like you, each time you fall you pick yourself back up”. That reminded me of what God said to a certain Saint, “When you fall and rise up again, the pleasure you give me in rising back up is more pleasing to me than the displeasure you gave me in falling”. This causes me to think that perhaps this way of life is God’s way for me. In thinking about it, I think maybe I should just continue on, continueing with confidence and keeping myself in peace, rising after each fall. WOW! I think I just resolved this problem myself, by believing what God says. I think I will now cease to speak of my life with God. St. Teresa of the Child Jesus disliked speaking of her interior life with God because she says it can bring us the temptation to pride and vainglory, she was not against it, she was only cautious of the temptations that the vicious one would concoct. She quoted from scripture, “It is best to keep the secret of the King”. St. Teresa in accordance with Carmelite Rule, wrote her story of her relationship with God, she titled it “The Story of a Soul”, the Carmelite branch of Nuns put St. Teresa’s story in book form after her death, it has been one of the most read books. I highly recommend it. I look much to the great wisdom of the Saints as that wisdom was granted to them by God, not only for themselves but for others as well. Terah James please keep me and my family in your prayers, a Saint said these words, “More is wrought by prayer than man can ever imagine”, I will keep you and your loved ones in my prayers. And I will accept the storm that God has been pleased to cast me into, asking him that you and your loved ones benefit from any good that God may grant me through this all. Thanks again Terah James. (Again I am sincerely sorry for what I previously said against you, I was wrong. Another fall that I am rising from, up again.)

Angelo - about our own falling & helped back up, by God:
It reminds me of St. Peter having denied Jesus three times.  That is a reason why when Jesus asked Peter if he loved Him, He asked three times.  God’s word is so consistent. 

I prayed for you and for your family at Mass yesterday, Angelo, and for our country too.  I even joined in on saying the Rosary, when I heard a special radio announcement on Catholic Radio, specifically FOR the election tomorrow.  My friend that has always been Catholic joined me.

During the Hail Mary’s, we pictured ALL the saints in Heaven, and the angels on earth, thinking how all of us Christians still on earth are part of the Communion of saints, & we’re family members in God’s Kingdom.

Right after the Rosary, the radio station we listened to had the EWTN Truth & Life New Testament Audio Drama Bible aired.  They read from Hebrews Chapter 11, the “Faith” Chapter, and Chapter 12, where it is written that we are “surrounded by a great cloud of witnesses”. So it was perfect timing, after we pictured the great cloud of witnesses during the Rosary!

I was thinking that for this Year of Faith, Angelo, you may want to have a little “The Family that Prays Together, Stays Together”, time of your own in your family, where you gather around (like in the old days, when they gathered around the radio, to listen to family programs that aired), and listen to the New Testament audio Bible.

It is a way to put God’s word into our hearts, like Mary did, “pondering” His word in her heart, and it’s something that would have a big impact on your children.  They would draw upon those Bible truths, forever—

Here is the website for the EWTN Truth and Life Audio New Testament:
http://www.ewtnreligiouscatalogue.com/TRUTH+LIFE+DRAMATIZED+NEW+TESTAMENT+-+AUDIO+CD/shop.axd/ProductDetails?x=0&y=0&keywords=truth+and+life&edp_no=21683

I was thinking perhaps your parish could purchase one or two sets, and keep a lending library at your church, where several families can take out CD’s, one at a time, maybe for a week at a time, and that way, it would save individual families the $50. cost, and everyone would still be able to hear all 18 discs, hearing 22 hours of audio-drama of God’s word.  Also, borrowing them from a church would also ensure the CD’s would be heard, and not just bought and tucked away to collect dust.

This EWTN product is excellent!  I love hearing it, when they air it on Catholic Radio.  For people of all ages, it gets our imagination going, as it’s easy to picture everything they are dramatizing.

Please will you give it some thought?  Especially to see if your church will order 1 or 2 sets, so everyone in your parish family can hear it?

Lastly, thank you very much for keeping me in prayer too, and for that, I’m most grateful!

God help us all tomorrow, for a God-honoring election in the US.  This morning, I read the Old Testament book of Ezra, and found it comforting.  It was a reminder that our God is Sovereign.  He is the same, yesterday, today and forever!  Allelujia!  He is risen.

Terah James, I will be looking into that series from EWTN, mainly for my family. I don’t interact much with other parish members. You see, I was born with an Anxiety disorder called GAD. It runs rampant in our family as a genetic disorder. It has been both a curse and a blessing. A curse because with the anxiety I am unable to interact socialy, a blessing because through out the years I have had a passion for learning about God and his truth, and I had plenty of time on my hands. At this point I have Chronic Pancreatitis which leaves me without energy. It causes me dissapointment because I cannot do what I was once able to do, simple things like washing my vehicle, mowing the lawn, restoring old furniture ect… A Cousin and I went to Fatima in 1986, and I asked our Lady for a cure. For almost 2 years I was anxiety free. For the first time in my life I had a group of friends, I started imitating what they did. And it was mortal sin after mortal sin. One night in a dream, I dreamt Jesus and Mary, no words were spoken, Jesus had a serious look on his face, neither angry nor with joy. Mary stood at his right, I could not see her face as she had it buried in her hands she was crying. The Church teaches that such dreams come from Heaven. My Anxiety returned with a vengeance, and I began my journey back to God. This I consider an act of mercy, and an act of God’s love for me through the intercession of Our Lady. This past Sunday I went to confession, I confessed to the priest that I felt abandoned by God, and that in turn I spoke words of anger to him. The priest blasted! me. He assured me that God has not abandoned me, that it is I who have adandoned God. He explained the reasons why. I came out of the confessional with head held high, with peace and resolve to stop all this attitude I’ve been having in my spiritual life. As you said “Alleujia! He is risen.” and I now refuse to remain in my sepulcher of ingratitude. God Bless you!

Angelo- I’m thrilled to know you will look into getting the EWTN Truth and Life Audio New Testament, and that you plan to listen to the CD’s with your family so you can pray God’s word together as you listen & allow the wisdom to enter into your hearts and minds.

Your health issues reminded me of people that God’s word tells us about: Timothy, for one, of whom St. Paul told to care for his weak stomach.  Some things never change! When you wrote of anxiety, it reminded me of the MOST used phrase in the whole Bible, the command from God: “Fear not.”

Somewhere it’s written that we are to “be anxious for nothing, but by prayer and supplication” tell God everything on our minds.  Another verse is “cast your cares on Him, for He cares for you.”  So very comforting.

It’s odd how many places we can find in Scripture that is applicable to us today!  Just this morning, I was reading about King Hezekiah (2 Kings) when he went to God in prayer because the King of Assyria was after Judah.
I prayed Hezekiah’s prayer, for AMERICA, today, during the election which has had me fretting (off and on) since Saturday!  I’m trying very hard to “Fear not”.

Yesterday morning, I was reading the first few chapters of the Book of Ezra.  It too, was applicable to us today.  I have to keep reminding myself that God is 100% Sovereign.  NOTHING surprises Him.

Further, there is NOTHING we can do to separate us from Him, once we “abide” in Him, as children, and as brothers (and sisters) to Jesus the Christ, the Son of the Father.

Your priest is correct.  We can tune out our minds to God, but He is patient, and He searches us down, and even places people in our lives, in order to turn us back to Him - like that good advice from your priest!

I admire the fact that you keep turning to Jesus- and Angelo, that you had the wisdom to know that you were once around people that influenced you AWAY from God.  Some people turn from God, and they do not realize it.

But you did!!  Good for you!!

From what you learned by that experience, you became a leader.  Right now, you are the spiritual leader of your family and can teach them what TO do and what NOT to do.

Somewhere in God’s word, it’s written that we are to “comfort one another with the comfort we have been given”, and that’s after we have fallen and been helped back up (by Jesus, the Holy Spirit, Himself, or through other believers in Christ, or through guardian angels sent by God to help us).

When we are back up, and healthier, we can assist and comfort others with the same help. Like with Jesus, somewhere it’s written that we “have an Advocate with the Father who can sympathize” because He knows what is like to be human and He was tempted as well, but He never sinned, as do we.  Jesus is always there.  It’s like that poem called “Footprints”.  So true.  We cannot see wind, but we can feel it, see its effects on nature.
So it’s like God- He is always there, whether or not we see Him, feel Him.
We can talk with Him, in prayer, and “praying” His word back to Him is good.  Like David’s Psalms, or even the prayers I prayed: King Hezekiah’s and the Prophet Ezra’s.

Angelo, you wrote that you have a passion for learning more about God.  I can surely tell that, from what you’ve written.  The absolute BEST way to learn more about God is to hear from Him directly.  The Truth and Life New Testament is ideal for that!  “Faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.”  Hearing God’s word and His promises are soooooooooooo comforting.  It’s amazing.

I’m so happy that you will look into the EWTN Truth and Life audio CD’s.  Your family will thank you!  It will draw all of you closer to each other (“The family that prays together, stays together”) and it will draw each of you closer to Him too, which is the very best gift of all!  You can hide His promises in your hearts!

God bless you greatly, knowing that our loving God who began the good work in you, & your sweet family, will most definitely bring it to completion!

I’m grateful that we were able to have this forum to share our thoughts about Christ, our Lord & Savior! How refreshing & edifying, for the Body of Christ!  I have been “picked up” in spirit, by this blog & especially now, on Election Day.  So thank you to all!

Terah James, Thank you. I have found the scriptures to be the best part of my spiritual life. I read it with the Church from the daily Mass. I have written before how much I love the apparitions of Our Lady. Its because she tells us what God wants us to know. So it is with scripture, God tells us what he wills for us to know, warnings, consolations, assurance, commanding us to trust him (WOW, not only does he tell us we could trust him, but even commands it) ect… As for this Anxiety disorder it is not normal anxiety, it is not the normal anxiety which is part of our being. We have 1 billion nerve endings, these nerve endings produce certain chemicals. Medical science has pinpointed the Chemical that causes this type of anxiety. The nerve endings produce an overabundance of this certain chemical and causes abnormal anxiety. I’m sure you have met many people with this disorder, they once and still call it being shy. Mild Tranquilizers relieves some of the major symptoms. There are many famous people with this disorder, one that calls to mind is Johnny Depp. He has said that the only time he does not experience this anxiety is when acting. You probably heard of him being described as eccentric. But he is not, he just cannot interact socialy because of this disorder. I myself do not expereance any anxiety when driving. A boyhood friend asked me once to describe what this feels like. I told him to imagine himself out in an open area with nothing around for miles. 3 rabid hungry rottwrilers are running towards him furiously. I told him, first you experience fear then anxiety as the situation is real, there is no escape. Now take away the rabid dogs and the fear. What you have left is anxiety. Imagine being in this state 24/7. He understood and no longer questions me as to why I do not interact socialy. So if this is God’s will then may it continue to be so (keeps me away from many temptations to sin). So Terah when you meet someone like this, please show him in your own way that he is accepted and appreciated. If you see him getting uneasy, then depart from his presence in a most casual manner. I assure you he will never forget your kindess and he will always appreciate what you done for him, and it will give him lasting consolation. God Bless you Terah James!

Angelo - thanks for explaining what you endure physically.  It reminded me of someone I once met that underwent clinical depression.  He told me one can’t “just think themselves” out of it, or rely on God and prayer, but rather, it is a condition that needs medication, and in his case, even periodic hospitalization, to get through it.  This man is Catholic, and the father of four or five little ones; he has a very understanding, supportive and patient wife.  Such a wonderful family he has, as do you.

We ALL have something or another to endure—I’m glad you see the silver lining in your own cross, & that you were able to explain so well how it affects you.  I’ll remember that.

Still keeping you & your family in prayer & thank you for your blessings on me too.  I could REALLY use it, especially today!!  Gratefully…TJ

Terah James, Thanks for understanding. My illness does not come under mental illness, but under a Neuorlogical disorder. That is a disorder of the nerve system itself. Mild Tranquilizers relieve the major symptoms. When my wife and I were engaged I told her, “Please understand that I do not go to party’s, because I have a hard time being around others.” She told me she understood and had no problem with it. After marriage she greatly missed party’s, dances ect… My wife did all she could to understand, and to accept. It was difficult for her. But now that our children are growing up, they go to many places together. I don’t mind as I want my wife to be happy and enjoy her outgoing life, partaking it with our children. Our Marriage is blessed much by God. My wife enjoys party’s and that makes me happy. I guess because I wish I could go to party’s. How strongly I believe that God brought us together. I only read your post this evening, I have asked God, Our Lady and all the Angels and Saints to come to your asssistance.
That person who said one cannot just rely on God and prayer, is wrong. God protects us in our weakness. I now understand that with this anxiety disorder, I am a recluse, but a happy recluse. I make the best of my time. Thank God!

Angelo, Your sufferings reminded me of the words of Psalm 22, which prefigures the sufferings of Christ: “Many bulls encompass me, strong bulls of Bashan surround me; they open wide their mouths at me, like a ravening and roaring lion….. I am poured out like water and all my bones are out of joint;  Yes dogs are round about me; a company of evildoers encircle me; they have pierced my hands and feet—I can count all my bones.”
Please pray for my son James. He suffers as you do and he’s only 24. God bless you. Susan Fox.

Susan Fox, Thank you for reminding me of Pslam 22. Its great to know that God watches over me and that despite this anxiety disorder, it is still possible to seek to do God’s will in all things and succeed. Another who came to mind is St. John Vianney, the Cure of Ars. When I read the story of his life I was surprised to find that he suffered from a severe Nerve disorder. This nerve disorder caused him great suffering through out his life. God says that he chooses the weak and makes them strong. St. John Vianney is one of the greatest Saints of the Church, the Church has proclaimed him the Patron Saint of Priests. It saddens me that your son James suffers the same as myself. Tell him never to give up hope, to accept his limitations as everyone has limitations. To place his confidence in God and the Intercession of our Lady. I hope he is on some form of medication, if not tell him to seek medical help. He will never regret it, as life will become bearable. You say he is only 24. I was born with this anxiety, it is genetic. I had trouble all through school in interacting with others. In my third Semester of College I had what they call the first major attack of Anxiety, I was 19. Several days later I dropped out of College and went to work for my Father. My Father accused me of just being lazy, but I knew that he did not understand what was happening. It was not until it came to light that several family members had the same disorder. When my Parents saw the similarities between them and myself, they apoligized to me and said they new nothing about this. They now tell me that they are very proud of me, because I have accomplished a great deal. Tell Your son James that there will be many challenges, he will fail in some and will excell in much more. I will place him in my prayers, he will remain in my prayers always. I am confident that he will do great. Thank you Susan Fox, God Bless you and all your loved ones.

Angelo - what a wonderful testimony you have, and what a wonderful wife and family too.  And I’m so happy for you that you were able to hear the words of validation from your parents.  What a blessing that was for you.

It’s amazing how we can either turn to God or turn from God to the world, looking for understanding and comfort.  While medication and medical help is Number One, the Psalms and God’s promise to be with us in our suffering is equally helpful, and it gives hope to get through.  Susan, the Psalms is what I relied upon during the recouperation of an injury many years ago, and it increased my faith, and my walk towards Jesus.

An elderly friend used to say about suffering, “This too, shall pass.”  She was right.  It always did pass, and when I learned from it, and turned to the One that is the Source of all comfort and wisdom, the physical pain was an education that upped my faith life a few notches, so that while it was difficult, and it was hard mentally too, because I didn’t understand why I was having to suffer, I was happy to have endured the time of trial, when I looked back on it.  Spiritually, I grew in Him.

It’s not likely that it would have happened, had I not been so down and helpless.  Yet, He remained faithful.  A friend that had goes to a Bible-teaching church would suggest I look up this or that Psalm, and what she suggested was always almost like it was written TO ME.  I was amazed by how applicable it was.  Ever since then, I’ve been in His Word, and I always find it a source of comfort, and a way to grow in Him.

Susan - Angelo gives good advice, and James is in my prayers too, as are you.  A meaningful Veteran’s Day to everyone.  God help America.

DEAR FRIENDS,
Thank you for your prayers. This election has made me feel very desperate and insecure, but God brought great good out of my suffering.I understood they may take my health insurance. They may take my medical care. They may make it impossible for my son to get a job. They may cause my husband’s company to reduce his benefits (it’s happened already). They may take my tax deductions. They will take my money. They will try to take my religious freedom. My husband may lose his job. We may lose our house and our retirement. BUT they will never take that which is absolutely the most important to me. The will never touch the thing I desire more than anything else. They can never take my Father. They can never take my Beloved Lord Jesus Christ. They can never take my Friend the Holy Spirit. And these I can have at any time, and unto eternal life. These are lasting Treasures. And if we all make it to heaven, (as I hope and pray) they can never take you my friends from me.  God bless you. Susan Fox

Susan Fox, My prayers will always be with you. I too am dissapointed with the outcome of the Elections. My dissapointment stems from the fact how the way Americans voted. Its obvious that not only the Government has gone astray but mostly the people have been led astray. We have come to an age when evil is called good and good is called evil. In history many Countries, when things go this way, the Bishops of those Countries have done something in Honor of Our Lady. They have never been dissapointed. I wish the Bishops of Our Country would do similar. What is tragic is that it seems that those of bad intent have the upper hand on those of goodwill. Pope Benedict XVl himself said recently that today many feel an abandonement from God and rightly so. But he assured us that God has not abandoned us. We must continue in our efforts for peace. Especialy through the Rosary. I became lax in praying the Rosary, and things are not going very well. I believe this is the evil one who is leading us not to put our confidence in God through prayer. We must unite spiritualy and do battle with the great weapon of prayer. Susan Fox I too have been plagued by the injustices of men in the world, such as false arrest, court fixings against me, lieing lawyers, Doctors endangering my health care, for fear of a lawsuit, lieing DA’s, lieing Judges, lieing Law enforcement ect… Wordly wise they have been victorious over me, If I don’t turn back to my former ways of prayer, it will be my own fault. Thanks for writing that post, as I am assured I am not alone. I will pray for you, please pray for us. God Bless!

Angelo,
Blessed are those who are persecuted. Rejoice and be glad for your reward will be great in heaven. There are 8 beautitudes. I had a friend. She took me to the list of the Beatitudes at her church and she said, Susan, my beautitude is “Blessed are the Peacemakers.” She was so proud because she played that role in her family and I was proud too as it is a great gift to be a peacemaker. But what happens when you look at your friend, and say, “My beautitude is blessed are the persecuted!” She looked at me strangely. It’s hardly something to boast about at least in our human perception. It’s hard to be “glad” about something like that. But that’s what we are called to do. Actually, they say if you live one beatitude, you will end up living them all. I struggle with Blessed are the Meek! God bless you. Susan Fox http://christsfaithfulwitness.blogspot.com

Susan, I too, fretted about this election and was very uneasy for four days prior to Election Day.  But then around that time, I began to read books of the Old Testament, and was reminded that none of what happened was a surprise to God, our Sovereign Lord.  That was comforting.  I only wish more bishops and priests would preach from the altar about morals, and what is right (according to God’s word) and what is clearly wrong.

In another blog, I read someone that commented that the bishops may not be too upset about the outcome of the election, because they were in support of the Affordable Health Care Act, and they felt they could win the point in court about our loss of religious freedom.  It’s as if they bought into the Social Gospel, and the teachings of the entire New Testament (like Paul’s letters, and even Peter’s for that matter) are irrelevant.

In our own diocese, there was a last minute pushing down our throats of President Obama in our diocesan newspaper - front page photos, and at least 3 other inside photos, along with the story that Sr. Carol (Keenan?) was speaking to explain the Affordable Health Care Act to everyone, and pushing it.  In our diocese, same sex marriage is even endorsed by some priests.  See why I found so many comforting connections to the Old Testament, and in being reminded that our Sovereign God is on His Throne, and He is watching us all!!  He promises to never leave us. God will make a way, where there seems to be no way.

Pray for our leaders, for wisdom, and we’ll continue to pray for each other, and this week, the bishops are at their meetings, we can pray that
the better ones will hold the others accountable, and that they’ll LEAD like MEN. Godly men, in action and not just in word only.  God help us, His little children that look to Him.

When we in the pews are taught about what God expects from us (obedience) and about how holy God is (He’s not the big guy upstairs, or a marshmallow we can manipulate, as my Catholic friend is fond of saying!) then we can be salt and light to a world that does not know Him, and even to our priests and bishops, that, by their actions and voiced thoughts, just do not know Christ, but they try to lead His church.

Dear Terah James, It sounds like you are in my old archdiocese. I recognize the name of the nun. The persecution from the liberal dioceses comes from the leadership (priests, nuns, lay ministers) and the people they persecute are REAL lay Catholics and other orthodox priests and religious. Bishop Wuerl was persecuted terribly when he shared the episcopal responsibilities with a former liberal archbishop, whose authority to teach was removed by Pope John Paul II because he supported the gay lifestyle. So real bishops get persecuted too. In such dioceses, ones who read and follow scripture and the true teachings of the Church are called “fundamentalists.” This is equivalent to being like those Muslims who blew up the Twin Towers. Because you take Scripture as fundamentally true you would be viewed as a “fundamentalist.” In these dioceses the poor lay faithful are persecuted in confession: “Don’t give me a laundry list!” or in their parish, especially if they are involved in REAL Catholic ministries. “Why would you do door-to=door evangelization? Isn’t every religion as good as another?” said head of RCIA.
I really haven’t had a strong Majesterium Catholic pastor in my 59 years until I moved to this parish in Colorado. My pastor is 55 with crippling arthritis, but before the election he had a liturgical banner on the altar that read “God is pro-life.” We also had numerous sermons warning us our Catholic School may have to be closed if the HHS mandates are enforced.  I talked to him after the election and he said he won’t give up. He’ll fight this administration with every last breath in his body, and try not to shut down our Catholic School. Needless to say his devout, ready to fight Catholicism reminds me of my mother. I am reminded too that we’ve had great saints in history who were priests, nuns, bishops as well as lay people and you can have a holy pastor or a lukewarm pastor. It’s really just his choice. But we need to pray for all priests and religious regardless.
Being persecuted by a Catholic priest or nun for following Christ is living the beatitude
Blessed are the persecuted. So rejoice and be glad! God indeed is not a marshmallow we can manipulate. But I think He is a big Sugar Daddy because we can go to Him and give Him all our needs, but He is also a Big Sugar Daddy who prunes the ones he loves. And pruning hurts. So does persecution. Having your whole diocese or your parish promote the candidate Barach Obama is true persecution. You have my sympathy. God bless you. Susan Fox http://christsfaithfulwitness.blogspot.com

Susan Fox - how I wish more lay people would speak up and complain, when they hear things such as you shared with us, that the head of the RCIA suggested that one religion was as good as another.  That’s blasphemy!
Jesus did not die so that a head of a Catholic program could spread such false information.

Regarding Fundamentalism- I gladly wear that title!  It’s being given a bad rap.  For me, it’s like having a sound Foundation.  It’s not being radical, or being obnoxious about where we get our direction (God’s word).
We just have to be sure we have the correct authority, and I’ve perused a few blogs that indicate the bishops are making themselves irrelevant, as a collective body, and I think it’s due to the fact that they insist on majoring in the minors (like the topic of this blog: indulgences) and in making new saints, when they should be insisting that Catholics that go to Mass on Sunday are trained properly in the Foundations of the Christian faith, and that’s found in the Bible.

Yesterday, I learned that a group of 50 conservative Catholics wrote a letter to the editor to their bishop and to their diocesan newspaper, to complain that Obama was almost pushed down people’s throats in the last diocese newspaper, with the President on the cover of the last issue, along with Cezar Chavez’s widow, and inside that issue, there were 3 more photos and stories of Obama, one with him and Cardinal Dolan, laughing at the Al Smith dinner.

From what I understand, the 50 people of good faith that complained to the bishop were ignored.  Their letter did not appear in the newspaper, and pastors are mum about the whole issue.  I wish that the same 50 people would reconsider their Annual Diocesan Appeal contributions because I think if the money level dips, it will get the bishop’s attention.  Thanks for your prayers - we need it!

Larry and I had Catholic RCIA leaders in our Catholic Discussion Groups (probably in your archdiocese) who did not believe in Christ’s Resurrection. Believe me, we did everything we could to convince them otherwise. We gladly wear the title “fundamentalist” as well, and it was applied to us derogatorily. Terah James, my husband suggested I tell you about a group of good Catholics who read the Bible daily—it’s part of their formation. It’s called Disciples of Jesus and Mary, and they are completely loyal to the Church. Larry and I joined the group in 1992, and we always say we were daily-Mass-going Catholics on the road to hell until DJM got us. And turned us around! They have a Catholic formation group in prayer, discernment and discipleship. It’s everything you want to know about “testing the spirits.” I received a lot of healing through this group. They teach you how to recognize God’s plan for your life. Everyone has a unique relationship with God and your experiences help you understand your unique relationship with God.  The work is all done in your daily prayer life. You only have to give it 15 minutes a day, but I’m sure you give the Lord much more than that. You can contact them directly. The link is   http://www.disciplesofjesusandmary.org They have groups all over the United States, France and Ireland. It’s grown rapidly in the last 20 years we’ve been involved. Many of our friends have joined and they were all glad they did. It is not an apostolate. It’s a prayer formation group.
Angelo if you were interested you could contact them too. They have a satellite program. They could help you via email and phone if you were comfortable with that. You would not have to meet with anyone. If you contact them, explain your disability. I’m sure they’d be happy to work with you on your terms.  God bless you. Susan Fox
http://christsfaithfulwitness.blogspot.com

Terah James and Susan Fox, I commend you both for your solid stand on what is right. Please continue! Susan Fox I am certainly interested in the Disciples of Jesus and Mary. That I could seek their support via e-mail is great. Thank you for this information. May God continue to Bless you both!

Susan Fox, I attempted to seek a prayer request from the Disciples of Jesus and Mary. My computer says “Could not perform this operation because the default mail client is not properly installed.” Do you know what I can do in this situation? In the meantime would you put in a prayer request for me with the Disciples of Jesus and Mary. Ask them to pray that I seek God’s will in all my situations. Thank you.

Angelo, Sorry it has taken me so long to respond. I am in the process of remodeling a house we just bought and it’s time consuming. Yes I will put a prayer request into them. I guess I can’t give you the email of the prayer servants in Phoenix that I send them to because that would not be proper in this forum. Many other eyes besides ours would see the email addresses. I will email their leaders in Phoenix and tell them what happened when you tried to put in a prayer request. God bless you. Susan Fox http://christsfaithfulwitness.blogspot.com

Angelo, I did send your prayer request to the DJM prayer servants in Phoenix. They will post it.  Here I think is the problem. To submit a prayer request to DJM you have to email: prayers (at) djmfamily.org
So that email address would look like this: prayers@djmfamily.org
If you want more information on DJM formation you email   info@djmfamily.org
The way I found that is by clicking on Contact at
http://www.solt.org/contact.html
We don’t directly post prayer requests. They are posted by a prayer servant. So you contact them by email.  God bless you. Warmest regards, Susan Fox