I was raised a Catholic but am afraid the religion is not true to the teachings of their Jesus in the New Testament. Why not listen to woman? Jesus had Mary and may even have been married to her, according to historical records and Everyman’s Talmud.

Women also know if we take care of a mother when she is going to conceive and allow her peace and love for the nine months she is creating a new life, we will have healthier, happier families.

True LOVE has four parts : sacred, social, sexual, offspring!!!!!

Women also know we need to protect our children from pedophiles by telling the truth about HOMOPHOBIA and how religious men made a big mistake when they translated their Holy Bible into many different English versions depending on the Christian sect.

Many sisters have betrayed the Church in their public views of abortion, contraception. Their so-called reforms never took in the Catholic Church. Our Lord promised that the gates of hell would not prevail against it. What ever happened to the humble nuns who became saints—like St. Faustina.

The Church has already been fractured by these splits long ago and survived—Rome is now repairing those fractures.

Apparently the sisters are completely missing the point of Catholicism—that it is the one true faith instituted by Jesus Christ when He handed over the keys to the kingdom to Peter. It’s not a question of whether anyone would be interested in the Church. The Church is the Bride of Christ and as such Truth cannot be changed to meet any of our desires. As for the sister who could just barely make it to mass, well maybe she should pray more and come to a better understanding of the Mass - we get to receive the Body, Blood, Soul, and Divinity of Jesus Christ! That’s not enough for her? They ought to split off and go be protestant if they’re going to insist on disobeying Christ and His teachings. Our Lady of the Immaculate Conception, please pray for these misguided sisters and help them to gain a better understanding of the Truth found in Christ.

Jamie Manson does NOT speak for this young person.  Without its orthodoxy the Catholic Church would not be worth two minutes’ consideration!
-
I do not understand how Barbara Marx Hubbard can espouse no religion and at the same time speak of “our Church.”  I was under the impression this woman was ostensibly a Christian??
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lora, Jesus was not married.  That is a popular fiction.  Whomever was responsible for raising you Catholic, I’m sorry to say, seems to have let you down in a big way.

Anyone else find it odd that a panel on the future of religious life doesn’t have any religious on it?

Why was there a panel with two National Catholic Reporters on it? I noticed that on the agenda earlier in the week and thought, “How strange?”

Aren’t reporters supposed to observe and report but not participate? Especially at an LCWR conference as epoch-making as this one. It’s as if the convention planners were saying, let’s have the liberal Catholic media guide us and (as actually happened) goad us into defiance. 

Yikes, things are worse than I imagined.

As with so many things wrong in our society we find truth by exposure
of detail. Regarding the nuns, I have witnessed the distress of orthodox
nuns these past 20 years as they complained about the problems in their
orders. Now the exposure by the Vatican has started the discussion.
My parish priest had 9 men in in 1998 to discuss the impact of homosexuals on the seminary’s. His being one. It was done passionately with fact.  When the pedophile scandal occurred many of us laymen and women quietly blew the whistle.
  God bless and save the seeking of truth regardless of impact.

Is the LCWR not listening at all?  Are they so enamored by these outside voices who are not rooted in truth?  Are they insisting that they are right and the whole church is wrong?  “Thou shalt not have strange gods before Me.”

They deserve so much prayer from us for their conversion/reversion.  With God, all things are possible.  Amen.

I feel sad for these women. I have had personal experiences with sisters who think like this. They are so awash in the culture of death feminism, social justice, being “nice”, and worship of mother earth. They are not brides of Christ. I went to spiritual direction with a sister like this and when I mentioned my passion for Jesus and my desire to grow closer to him she grimaced and said “how nice for you”. Then she went on to attempt to teach me about “mother God”. I met many more just like her. It’s long past the time for reform. Pray for them, they are so lost.

Nice scoop
Congratulations. 

The NCR Reporter’s Publisher trying to lead a charge.
How professional.
And uh oh.  What happened to the expected cheers?

Thank God he defined the word No:  It means saying “‘Yes’ to who you are.”
That was some great recovery huh?

Odd, they themselves make no mention of this fiasco today.
Journalism 101.  Not newsworthy when the boss looks like a goof.

Again, look at the photos & consider the average age of these sisters.I don’t agree that these ladies are “speaking for the future” but rather for the past & in diminshing numbers.

I have worked with our dear sisters and the new age influence has suduced them into a lie from the Fallen One Himself.
Everything they are ingesting is New Age and Not Christ Jesus’ Teachings.
Yes, they cover themselves with service and social concern but they have come out of the covering of Jesus-their Husband, who they vowed to follow.
Those in the Heirachy represent Him -Father, Son and Spirit.

I pray that these dear ones will wake up- In the seventies the New Agers purposely centered in on Catholic Religious Sisters to use them in their naivity [a quote] to influence others who they teach and guide into this premise of the NEW AGE- the cosmos, etc.

As a “good Catholic girl,” I am indebted to all that the Good Sisters have given to me, to my Church, to my community, to the poor, to my country, and to the world. My heart is broken for them. They have devoted their lives to truly living the Gospel of Christ: feeding the hungry and clothing the naked. I can only imagine their hurt and feelings of betrayal. I pray for their strength, courage,  and discernment at this transformative hour. God bless you, Sisters.

Why is anyone from the NCR addressing the LCWR? It is not unprofessional to do so per se, but at a conference that is also a major news story it an incredibly compromising conflict of interest. As a journalist I am shocked.

Look at those old nuns and ask, ‘Where are the young nuns?’ What is it about the teachings and guidance of these old nuns failed to encourage many young Catholic women to similarly devote themselves to God?

I know of dozens of young Catholics who have left the church of their youth and became Evangelicals or Fundamentalists or Orthodox because the church as interpretted by the aging liberal priests and nuns leaves them cold and empty. What a shame that these misguided people have replaced the glory of th egenuine Gospel with New Age nonsense and have thus lost an entire generation of Catholic youth. But the church is resilient and the orthodox areas are awash with yong people going into the religious life. The actual facts put the lie to Fox’s words.

Perhaps these nuns think of God and the church with some vestigial emotion that has little to do with the factual nature of God and the church as eternal entities? God’s Word does not change, nor the teachings of the church on core issues of faith. If the good sisters cant be true Catholics, perhaps the Episcopalians would be glad to take them and accept the bills for their aging care. I doubt it.

As a young Catholic, I am, frankly, embarrassed for Mrs. Manson, especially since she got it so wrong on what young Catholics want. 

I want the exact opposite of what she is describing.  If that makes me one of the “few” radically orthodox, than so be it.  She has a problem though.  I know thousands upon thousands upon thousands upon thousands just like me, who aren’t afraid to be challenged.  We aren’t afraid to stand up and defend the Truths of the faith.  We want Mass celebrated according to the rubrics.  We want devotions.  We don’t need to be told that “Jesus loves me and that is all that matters” in the homily. 

We want to be 100%, authentically Catholic, and aren’t ashamed of it.

By their fruit you shall know them, and the fruit of LCWR is barrenness.

So whatever they say or do, it does not really matter, because nuns like these are dying out. They are an unfortunate remanant of the 1960s and the poor dears had neither the spiritual nor intellectual strength to stay true.

@Gail Finke: very interesting and astute comment!  Well done!

@ddoyle and others who spoke in defense of tradition with details: thank you, thank you! And I notice that ddoyle enumerated details that aren’t actually on the Vatican agenda, either, like not being told over and over, ‘Jesus loves me.’ That is one of the teachings of the Council that traditionalists are begging to be re-visited. Because, what’s wrong with it? It leaves out the sin part! The post-Vatican II church continually emphasizes Christ’s love for us on the cross, but leaves out the equally important teaching that it was made necessary by SIN. An over-emphasis on the former leaves the door open for us to do whatever we feel like or want to do—abort an inconvenient fetus, have sex with someone to whom we are not married, and so forth, because Jesus will always forgive us, He loves us so much, look at the cross. To understand that sin made that cross necessary and that we absolutely must renounce sin is what is lacking now. And why ddoyle wrote that she doesn’t want to be told anymore that Jesus loves her and that is all that matters, because she knows there’s more that matters. And not only does this lack leave out the sin part of our faith, it also, in a flipped conclusion, leaves out merit. *We Catholics earn our salvation.*  That’s what paganism and all protestantism denies, the whole discussion of faith versus works. They want it to be that Jesus loves me and that alone will get me to heaven. No, no, no. We have to do good. We have to give alms. We have to do penance. We have especially to be good to the poor.

The new conciliar version of the church (which, please God, we are re-casting as we speak!!!) isn’t even trad enough for our ddoyle’s, and the NCR thinks it to be too trad. Child please.

@ Catherine Monteiro, these nuns do little for the poor in most cases, and leave out the essential good for the poor, teaching them about Christ, altogether. They give them runes (I swear, in centerpieces at a conference I went to organized by the sisters of mercy) and centering prayer and yoga. But the poor need nothing so much as Christ, as the eucharist, as the hope, as the sacramental aid to a more ordered life. Nothing would benefit poor women so much as a whole hearted restoration of marriage, and these nuns are so totally not about that. Dear heart, investigate!!!

What a shock!!!! The sisters might not cooperate!!!!! Tom Fox publisher of the Natonal Catholic Distorter advises the nuns to simply say ‘no’!!!! Sister Donna said she was hurt[by the doctrinal assessment] and On Good Shepard Sunday it was all she could do to go to mass!!!!!  But she and some other sisters from her community finally went, during the homily the priest said that the sisters were on of the best examples of the Good Shepard the nuns all lept to their feet and clapped!!!!!  Well here is what Pope Benedict has to say about these kind of outbursts during mass:

“Wherever applause breaks out in the liturgy because of some human achievement, it is a sure sign that the essence of liturgy has totally disappeared and been replaced by a kind of religious entertainment.”

I feel sorry for these nuns…they have become victims of pop-culture and feminism.  They have lost the faith.

They are Protestant, protesting against the authority of the Holy Catholic Church. They should leave the Church and stop the charade. It only further reveals their malicious intent. They will not submit. They will not imitate Our Lady.  Never did she interfere with the priestly duties of Her Son nor with His delegation of the priesthood to men. Never did she demand to celebrate Holy Mass or that women apostles be ordained. One last thing. Those who are quick to point to the sexual abuse scandal should consider that corrupt individuals do not represent the holiness of the Bride of Christ. Also,  liberals like the many in the LCWR have allowed and coninue to support the infiltration of the Church by homosexuals. The Church has survived many heretics who have persecuted Her from within and without. She will endure this and more. Our Lord guaranteed it. Never stop praying for the conversion of the enemies of the Church. Mary Most Holy, pray for us. St. Michael the Archangel defend us in battle. All Saints in Heaven pray for us.

As part of my university professor research, I examined the issue of priestly abuses. The numbers are pretty clear. This was overwhelmingly not a pedophile problem. This was a homosexual problem. Most abused were boys and most were not younger children. They preyed on available and compliant males.

It’s time we talk straight about the source of the issues with the “Catholic” religious women. The source of their liberalism, feminist culture of death and rejection of orthodoxy is the large percentage of lesbians among them.

Cognitive dissonance pressures us to listen to those things we agree with and to tune out or alter what we hear that is dissonant from what we currently believe.  These women CAN’T accept the true Church teachings without having to admit their views—and very often their lifestyles—are wrong and damnable.

As Pat Buchanan wrote so eloquently, the Church has progressed in absolutely NO areas except membership since Vatican II. And the source of increased membership rests in large part because protestants can just as easily go to the Catholic Church today…there’s very little difference and the jump is an easy one. Vatican II, I guess, was a success, if you measure it by it’s efforts to make protestants and others not so put off by all those tough rules, mystical liturgy, the big role of Our Lady and all that sanctuary statuary. And let’s hide that tabernacle away where it won’t be such a reminder of the exclusive truth of the Catholic Church. 

Shame not only on these women—who would have earlier and should now be excommunicated. Shame on the rest of us for silently watching the evolutionary destruction of traditional Catholicsm.  I sure wouldn’t want to be one of these heretical women at the end of this life. But I also wouldn’t want to be many/most of the priests, bishops, cardinals and a pope or two since 1963 either.

This all boils down to a single question: Is this what Jesus intended to happen to the Church when Vatican II was initiated?

I forgot to thank all who defend our Holy Mother Church against the attacks of the deceived. May God bless you richly in this life and in the next. You are all in my prayers, especially the Holy Rosary of the Blessed Mother. May she protect you always with her love. May she intercede for us now and at the hour of our death.

The religious orders that are orthodox: in line with the doctrines of the Holy Catholic Church and the Bishop of Rome are growing. The present numbers of religious sisters are aging and will no longer exist in the not-too-distant future.

Thank you for your past efforts. May you rest in peace.

This past weekend, we had the privilege of attending a profession of perpetual vows, by a young nun of the School Sisters of Christ the King. She teaches at our school, and our kids love her very much. They all wear a habit, as do our local Marian sisters, Carmelites, and Pink Sisters, and all have a healthy number of younger nuns and novices.

Lincoln, Nebraska is a special place, though..

There indeed _was_ a sister on the panel. This article does not mention the relatively young Jennifer Gordon, SCL, who also participated and spoke about living on the edge was what sisters did with their work.

The National Catholic Reporter did not do a story about this panel presentation and the subsequent discussion, which involved its publisher and a columnist.

Please, NC Register, no more pictures of these gals. It’s just too scary!!!!

The first “radical” of the Church was it’s founder, Jesus Christ, the Son of God! He defined “Orthodox”.  Not for nothing, but ALL of the Saints, known and unknown, have been “radically orthodox”. If these little old angry ladies do not believe that Christ’s deliberate crucifixion, death, Resurrection and subsequent real presence in the Eucharist are not all “radical” facts…then they are long past “orthodox”. In fact He was so “radical” that Christ’s commanded us to “take up your cross and follow me”.  Folks this dust up has nothing to do with “radical orthodoxy”..Nope it’s about radical disobedience and absence of humility. Although, they like being called “Catholic” and “Nuns”...these feminist just don’t like the rules of engagement nor the playbook or the referees. Other than these minor points they love being “Catholic Nuns”. It’s about their self justification and “works” rather than faith and truth. It’s about arrogance.  The young are typically idealist! “Radical Orthodoxy” appeals to them…..especially when it is Truth Himself Personified….Jesus Christ. The declining numbers speak for themselves. The LCWR orders are dying (literally) Why? Because their doctrine of “self” (look at what I do….applause, applause)rings in loud silence to Truth! Youth may be ignorant but they are not stupid! At last check those Radically Orthodox orders were growing nicely. They don’t seem to have major problems attracting young women the radically orthodox vocation. Radically Orthodox is not just an expression. It is Eternal Truth who is a person named Jesus Christ….the original Radical!

James Michael,

Well said.

The Church is not a democracy - never was and never will be - and thank God for that! If the good sisters don’t like it, they are free to leave. Any change in this respect is simply not an option.

To the LCWR,  What would Mother Teresa of Calcutta say since she is soon to be canonized a saint?  What is missing from this group is Humility, Humility, Humility.  Let’s all be grateful Jesus gave the keys to Peter, because the LCWR cannot lead us on the straight and narrow path to true life in Jesus.  It is a simple decision. If submission and obedience to the Pope cannot be accepted, they nuns can join the ranks of the other 45,000 other churches that decided they wanted to do it “their way”.  This won’t be the first group, nor the last group to allow pride to blind their spiritual vision. A remedy for that is confession.

I bet that when those in the LCWR vote, they overwhelming go for the Democrats, the party of death and of homosexual activists.

please don’t insult the Protestants who follow Jesus and love and serve Him-these ladies are going beyond Christ [remember?]  this is a scenario which is much worse.
They are involving themselves in ancient practices and pagan worship.
Don’t stop praying for them.

The only thing Catholic about the National Catholic Reporter is the name, “Catholic”, not to be confused with Roman Catholic. If the dissident liberal orders wish to adopt the pagan standards of the left wing of the Democratic Party they should join the reformed Episcopalians. They are in need of new members to replace those who are leaving in droves.

It truly is amazing the very large number of nuns who are indeed enthralled to the norms of the sexual revolution and basic unitarian universalist philosophy. They have no shame, no sense of humility, no ability to discern the failed revolution that is guaranteeing slow suicide for their orders.

“The thing I don’t think we ought to be risking is further splitting our Church and getting into more and more fragmentation. … We have to figure out: How are we going to get through this together in a way that is respectful of the integrity of both parties?”

Submit or leave.

The LCWR promotes neo-paganism in the spiritual realm, socialism in the economic realm, and sexual debauchery in the psychological realm. While we should never cease praying for them, and remember that many of these (former) sisters provided valuable service to the Church before losing their faith, there is no denying that they simply are not Catholic any more. They are not entitled to continued financial support from the Church and must be invited to leave. Dialogue is pointless.

The only reason these dingbats want to remain in the Catholic Church is probably because of the financial support they receive because of that designation.

Radically orthodox young people, eh? Funny, I thought I was just in line with the Church’s teachings.

I’m praying for the sisters of the LCWR. I hope that they one day will return to ‘radical orthodoxy.’

These nuns need to humble themselves before God and his holy church.  Look at the damage they have caused Catholic hospitals - to be forced to pay for abortions, sterilizations and birth control.  These women are doing Satan’s work for him.  They have no shame!  As a Catholic woman, I do not support their actions.  It is time for these orders to either disband or return to the proper role of a nun in the church.

These wayward nuns like to call themselves Catholic only because that label allows access to financial support. I mean, what would life be for them if they couldn’t attend all the meeting they do to bark their defiance disguised as dialogue at the male hierarchy?

If you want to get an idea of how just un-Catholic these old women are, go to their LCWR web site. It’s at http://lcwr.org

On the home page, various photos of the LCWR members in action rotate on the screen.

Is there photo of a nun in habit? No.

Of perhaps an image of a nun kneeling in prayer? No?

Maybe a nun saying the Rosary? Are you kidding?

But there is a picture of one of these old, lost souls walking a pagan Labyrinth, looking like she’s in deep contemplation (of what we can only guess).

According to Wikipedia, “For these reasons, the membership of the congregations in the LCWR declined from 60,642 in 2007, to 46,451 in 2011, to an estimated 43,664 in 2012.”

This decline, as steep as it is, can only accelerate in the years ahead for, as Wikipedia notes, the average age of a nun in the LCWR is 74 years old.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leadership_Conference_of_Women_Religious

Whether the Vatican has the backbone to bring law & order to these dysfunctional women religious orders is somewhat a moot point. The LCWR and those in it will soon be gone.

The real shame in all this is that the Church leadership did not crack down on these heretical nuns decades ago. Instead they merely watched and let rot continue until it was too late to save them.

As a non-Catholic, I am horrified by the blatant disrespect, condescension,  and hostility evident in these posts.  How can anyone who claims to “follow” Jesus Christ communicate (or even think) in this way?  How is this “righteous” indignation any different from that espoused by hate groups around the world throughout history?  Is this sort of intolerance, rush to judgement, and dichotomous thinking really the future that you want for the Catholic Church?

Kimberly Gibson,

I an appreciate your feelings about the lack of charity in some of the posts.  But I am interested to know if you have been following and understand the LCWR issue, do you?  If you do understand I’d be interested what you think.  If you don’t understand you might want to review the Vatican’s Doctrinal Assessment of the LCWR and then review their web-site and their response to the Church.  Doing so might help you understand the frustration many Catholic’s (including me) feel about the behavior of the LCWR.  Personally I think they should be disbanded.

I do not believe Kimberly Gibson’s post. I have received a number of personal emails of this nature that clearly come from members of the LCWR. Ladies, face it… it’s over. You have been pretending to be Catholics for more than a generation now, sponging off the good will and naivete of the faithful. Please go start your own church, or simply join the Unitarian Universalists. You already share their belief system, or lack thereof. I don’t find fault with your lack of Catholic faith. That is a personal matter. What I find repugnant is your dishonesty.

Dr. T,

Easily solved….let’s get her bone fides.

I am profoundly sadened by the comments here that fail to honor the work of women religous who have devoted their lives to living the gospel message of Jesus.  Sister Pat Farrell, president of LCWR, devoted her life to serving the poor here in the US, in El Salvador, and Chile.  Clearly, the support shown by Catholics all over the US for the LCWR and the 56,000 sisters they represent are an indication that the majority of Catholics support them.

Mary, your living in a dream. It ain’t about the works (which are ostensibly good)....It’s about what drives the works…ie… the dogma, doctrine, vows, disobedience, dissent and authority. Anytime a “Catholic” religious organization entertains the idea that…“We may have moved beyond Jesus”....you’ve got a real problem. You obviously have not done your homework or you are a member of LCWR. This group is no more Catholic than you are Muslim.

Mary Blair, have you noticed that the supporters of the “sisters” are nowhere to be found on this website? They are all over at the National Catholic Reporter, showing their support for the LCWR, as well as abortion, gay “marriage,” and every other abomination, while mocking everything that is Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic. How is it that these “sisters” who, in your words, “devoted their lives to living the gospel message of Jesus,” have attracted such friends?

@ jacobum “It ain’t about the works…..it’s ..what drives the works..ie…the dogma, doctrine”  There are 56,000 sisters in the US. 80% belong to the LCWR. The sisters elect their leaders and representatives to the LCWR. You can go to NPR and listen to Terry Gross’ interview of Sr. Pat Farrell and then Terry Gross’ interview of Bishop Blair
which were held before the LCWR annual meeting in early August.  I came away from listening to both that the sisters are doing nothing more than living their lives of commitment to serving the needs of the poor and marginalized and the bishops are offering no specific proof of instances in which they violated doma or doctrine.

@ Dr. Timothy Williams ..have you noticed that the supporters of the “sisters” are nowhere to be found on this website?” Yes, I have noticed most here seem to be opposed to the sisters, but I do believe the majority of Catholics fully support them.  I am not a member of LCWR.  I am simply a Catholic woman who was educated in Catholic schools and support these wonderful women who are beacons of light in a Church that is in crisis.

@Mary Blair:  I am a cradle Catholic and an early baby boomer who was raised with 5 sisters. Our parents sent us all to Catholic schools from grade school thru college. We were in school when the nuns constituted the majority of teachers/administrators and lived in convents on the parish/school grounds. We loved those wonderful women and some of our fondest memories are of those nuns. There are/were nuns and priests in both my family and my wife’s very large family. I share this info with to let you know I am speaking from experience not guessing. I can share with you that we know for a fact that there are a lot of elderly nuns trapped in mother houses that don’t recognize the orders they joined as young women. They have no voice and can’t do anything about it except..“offer it up”. The LCWR is living off their good works and the reputations established by their predecessors who were brides of Christ and wore the visible Habits. If you will take the time to do some basic research and/or study the LCWR it will really shock you assuming you are a faithful and informed Catholic. You might want to also check out Call To Action. CTA is long time dissident group of “Catholic” religious that has crossovers with LCWR.  As far as Bishop Blair? Pull down the 8 page statement issued by the Vatican and again do your own research. It gives them full credit for their good works…(isn’t that what they are called to do anyway?). That is not the issue and it never has been the issue..That is just a red-herring to deflect attention from the real issue….systemic, ongoing, long-term (from the 70’s), heresy.Period. The scandal is not the LCWR. The real scandal is that the Vatican let this go on for so long that it became “accepted” and “common place” and has scandalized the faithful. However, better late than never. All the LCWR has to do is do what their original charter called for and what the Vatican approval was based on. If not then let them form a secular organization but not under the auspices of the Church. You can’t have it both ways. The Church is not a democracy or a grocery store faith. Obedience to authority is required and a given. Certain things are non negotiable…as is dogma and doctrine. The LCWR has consistently ignored, violated them for the last 40+ Years. They are expert and media PR and deflection/obfuscation of the truth. They are not the “tiger” nuns that myself and my sisters had the privilege of being taught by. Great works is useless without the Faith of Christ and His Church. God Bless you. I mourn and prayer for the nuns.

@ jacobum
Thank you for your heartfelt response to my post.  My background is much like yours, except that I had 1 brother and 6 sisters and, like you, we were all educated during the 50’s and 60’s in Catholic elementary and high schools. We attended diocesan schools at the K-6 level and then private secondary schools run by religous orders.  My parents sacrificed a great deal to do this since, both financially & in terms of time, since we we lived 25 miles away from these schools and they were responsible for transporting us. I graduated from a public university and only 3 of my siblings pursued higher education in Catholic institutions.

Our beloved Catholic Church is in great distress and I do not see the 56,000 nuns in this country as the source of that distress.  You say they are guilty of “heresy” and they deny Catholic “dogma and doctrine”, but you offer no concrete examples of how they have done so. I see these women as the epitome of what it is to be a Catholic who truly lives life as Jesus did, selflessly living in service to those in need and fully embracing their Catholic faith. Sr. Farrell, a Franciscan, has had a life of service to the poor here in the US, in El Salvador and Chile.  She was, in fact,mentored in Santiago by Sr. Ina Ford only three months prior to that nuns rape and murder.  Sister Joan Chittister, a Benedictine nun, and past president ofLCWR is a prolific and gifted author, whose writings inspire me and thousands of other Catholics. While you lament the loss of “tiger” nuns of your childhood, I celebrate these Catholic faith filled women of the present and see them as the prophetic voices of our future. God Bless.

Mary Blair thinks the majority of Catholics support the LCWR.

Well, yes and no.

The majority of Catholics probably do support the concept of nuns or in any event the way nuns were prior to Vatican II.

Unfortunately the general public does not fully realize how many, if not most, of the women religious orders have been internally corrupted with feminism and modernism.

If the fact were presented to the Catholic faithful-at-large, they would run from the LCWR like the plague. And actually, that process is happening. Precious few are joining these orders.

Jacombum has it right: “The LCWR is living off their good works and the reputations established by their predecessors who were brides of Christ and wore the visible Habits.”

But again I’ll repeat. The LCWR is a dying organization. It will be gone in ten years, maybe sooner. These old frustrated and misguided women can be ignored; they bring nothing useful to conservation other than to serve as an example of good fruit gone bad.

@Kenny
Yes, the LCWR is aging, as is the USCCB and the priesthood.  Our dioscesan seminary closed many years ago, as did most in the US.  The shortage of priests will accelarate further very quickly, as will the shortage of nuns. We are in crisis.  Catholic Church pews are not filled and in fact, those who attend Mass faithfully find the vast majority of the few who are there are older people. There are 18,000 priests in the US today.  In 10 years there will be 9,000.

@Mary Blair
Mary you just exposed yourself. You cite Sister Joan Chittister???? Are you kidding, ignorant, in a trance or just thing folks are ignorant, stupid or both. Excuse me if I don’t use “Sister” when addressing about her. She is a model/poster child for dissent and a well known feminist radical nun. For starters just google her name if you need any confirmation. For your convenience I am attaching a link to an interview she gave to LifeSiteNews dated Feb 15, 2010: http://www.lifesitenews.com/news/archive/ldn/2010/feb/100215
I refer you to the opening question and answer (from her own mouth) Case closed. I could go on forever. She is one of the original dissedents. She is also involved with Call To Action (CTA) but then again you already know that…don’t you Former Sister Mary Blair??? Same with Sr Farrell but you know it already.  Get a life. Quit defending the defenseless. Either, have the moral courage to learn the faith, accept it and practice it faithfully or do yourself and every one a favor and leave the Church, please!  God Bless You.

As I warned (above), the posters who defend the LCWR are fakes. Most, like this Mary Blair, are obviously members of the LCWR, or ex-nuns, or fellow travelers of the New Age. There are no practicing, reasonably intelligent Catholics who are deceived by the LCWR. Anyone with half a brain can see that this organization is not now, and has not been for a very long time, Catholic or Christian in any way.

@jacobum and @ Dr, Timothy J. Williams
I have read many of Sister Joan Chittisters books and lament the fact that neither of your have.  I am a practicing Catholic & call your attention to what I wrote earlier about my background.  I am not a member of LCWR, nor am I a former/present sister.  I am simply a Catholic woman who does not agree with your views on this subject. Judgemental attidues about those with differing views are not helpful. 
While it is comforting to listen to those who share our views, it tends to block out the reality that there are many who have different views.
Ubi Caritas, Deus ibi est!

Mary Blair:

Please excuse my skepticism.  In one of your posts to jacobum you said; “you [jacobum] say they are guilty of “heresy” and they deny Catholic “dogma and doctrine”, but you offer no concrete examples of how they have done so.” And in another post to him you said “the bishops are offering no specific proof of instances in which they violated dogma or doctrine.”  Are you suggesting that you have not read the Vatican’s Doctrinal Assessment that clearly laid out the specific doctrinal issues as well as other concerns?  Well if you are, judging from your own comments, I can only conclude that you are being disingenuous.  Below is a link to the Vatican’s Doctrinal Assessment:

(http://www.usccb.org/loader.cfmcsModule=security/getfile&pageid=55544).

The Assessment set forth a slew of doctrinal issues including;

1.  Addresses at the LCWR annual assemblies manifest problematic statements and serious theological, even doctrinal errors e.g. Sr. Laura Brink’s remarks about some Religious ‘moving beyond the Church’ or even beyond Jesus (one example of many).
2.  The Assessment took issue with letters received from “Leadership Teams” of various Congregations, among them LCWR Officers, protesting the Holy Sea’s actions regarding the question of women’s ordination, the pastoral approach to ministry to homosexual persons, e.g. letters about New Ways Ministry’s conferences.
3. The Assessment noted certain radical feminist themes incompatible with the Catholic faith; “some of the programs and presentations
sponsored by the LCWR, including theological interpretations that risk distorting faith in Jesus and his loving Father who sent his Son for the salvation of the world. Moreover, some commentaries on “patriarchy” distort the way in which Jesus has structured sacramental life in the Church; others even undermine the revealed doctrines of the Holy Trinity, the divinity of Christ, and the inspiration of Sacred Scripture.

Subsequent to the issuance of the Assessment orthodox analysts capsulized the major areas of LCWR doctrinal dissent as follows (in no particular order);

a. Abortion
b. Homosexual marriage and ministry
c. Ordination of women
d. Contraception
e. Feminist themes that undermine revealed doctrines of the Holy Trinity

On the other hand the LCWR, liberal and dissident analysts dodge the doctrinal issues by ignoring them instead choosing to lavish praise upon the LCWR for their social justice efforts, personal sacrifices etc. If more proof of ‘dodging the issue’ is needed just look at the LCWR’s steadfast refusal to discuss doctrinal issues, their petulant attitude and their resistance to working with the Vatican e.g. the their refusal to allow Archbishop Sartain to attend their recent annual conference. 

Since the LCWR controversy has played out in the media ‘ad nauseam’ your denials that there are no specific examples of LCWR dissent are, to put it kindly, not credible.  You denials also raise questions around your motives and also about your identity.  Could it be you are an LCWR Officer or nun masquerading as a poster?

One final thought…....the issue is not about social justice accomplishments as the Assessment gave high marks to the LCWR on this score, this is about dissent from both doctrine and Church authority….things you and the LCWR steadfastly are loath to discuss.

Mary Blair:

Sr. Chittister, like the LCWR, is just another run-of-the-mill dissident.  I’m quite sure you’ve read her books and many other writings from the good sisters or other dissident groups.  Unfortunately this make you a dissident too. 

What you, Sr. Chittister, the LCWR and others do not understand is that doctrine….Christ’s teachings through Scripture, Apostolic Tradition (T), infallible papal declarations and the constant teaching of the Ordinary and Universal Magisterium……are not up for discussion as truth does not change! Truth is immutable.

I wonder…...what Church fathers have you read?  How many encyclicals and Apostolic Letters have you read?  Have you read Pope Benedicts books on Jesus Christ?  Have you read Pope John Paul II’s encyclical letter ‘Veritatis Splendor’ regarding certain fundamental questions of the Church’s Moral Teaching?  I bet you’ve read none of them.

What you are doing is worshiping at the alter of feminism and the LCWR.

Lex Orandi, Lex Credendi

Mary Blair:

The average age of U.S. Bishops is 65 years.  The average age of the LCWR nuns is 74 years.  There are over 412,000 priests in ministry to draw from to fill bishop vacancies.  The LCWR is unable to attract sufficient novices to replace (or even come close to replacing) the nuns who retire or die.  Contrary to your post both the number of priests and nuns (orthodox congregations) are on the increase, you can Google the stats.  Interestingly the orthodox elements of the Church are growing and the liberal/dissident element of the Church is dying.

I don’t know where you get your information but there are about 50,000 priests in ministry in the United States today.  Worldwide there are about 412,000 priests, about 5,000 more than there were in 2005.  Below is a link to these statistics.

http://cara.georgetown.edu/CARAServices/requestedchurchstats.html

With regard to Catholic pews……since 1960 we have had one generation after another who have been horribly catechized; today less that 1 in 3 people believe in the Real Presence, less than that attend weekly mass and fewer than that follow the Church’s teaching on contraception.  Nearly ½ of Catholics accept abortion in one form or another and hardly anyone goes to confession.  Catholic divorce at the same rate as non-Catholics and over ½ of U.S. Catholics voted for the most pro-abortion president in American history last cycle.  Can it get much worse?  The signs are that this is starting to change……as the VII nuns and priests retire they are being replaced by more faithful, orthodox priests.  Conservative convents are growing like crazy.
As time purges the liberal, poorly catechized, liberal and secular-relativists from the Church this will change.

The LCWR is part of the problem.

[21] non omnis qui dicit mihi Domine Domine intrabit in regnum caelorum sed qui facit voluntatem Patris mei qui in caelis est ipse intrabit in regnum caelorum [Matthew 7:21]

Let’s look at LCWR in a somewhat different light, building on four facts:

1. There are about 45,000 religious women in the LCWR.
2. The average age is 75 years old.
3. The religious orders in LCWR cannot find young novices and are literally dying.
4. Those in the religious orders of the LCWR vote for its leadership.

So let’s use some everyday common sense to this and ask some questions.

1. How many of these very elderly nuns voting for the those in LCWR have the knowledge or even the mental capacity to even know what and/or who they’re voting for? That is, how representative is the LCWR of the nuns it purports to represent?

I bet many, many nuns are sickened by the LCRW’s scandalous antics; we just don’t hear about that. Like all leftists groups, the radical LCWR probably squelches all dissent where it has the power to do so.

Oh, and one other thing. As can be seen in the postings here, those on the Left view lying for their cause to be a virtue. To them truth (and even the Truth) is plastic.

2. The m.o. of the LCWR is to ask—nay, demand—a constant ‘dialogue’ with the Church over doctrinal issues, hoping to change Church teaching to suit their feminist 7 modernistic desires. It’s as if the radical leadership of LCWR thinks it can wear down the Vatican and the bishops by constantly hen-pecking them.

Okay, but why don’t we hear of the dissent from within the religious orders making up the LCWR to the LCWR’s radical and heretical agenda? Are we suppose to believe all 45,000 nuns toe their leadership’s New Age metaphysics? Hogwash.

@Mike Maolne @ Dr, Timothy Williams @ Kenny @ jacobum @ Fr. Phillip
I do appreciate your comments & apologise for my factual error is citing the number of priests in the US.
Clearly, inspite of the attraction of new vocations to the orders under the American Mother Superiors of women religous, there will never be enough to sustain women religous as we know them today.  The priesthood is also
failing to attract enough seminary vocations to maintain staffing of parishes at present levels.  We have already witnessed closing of some churches and consolitdation of parishes because of priest shortage. Yes, those entering convents and seminaries today are more conservative/orthodox, but they are not arriving in significant numbers to aleviate the shortage, much less eliminate it.

I have read the Vatican Docrtrinal Assessment in it’s entirety and for the life of me I can’t find any citing of specific examples of “heresy” and false “dogma and doctrine”.  While the Vatican heirarchy and the USCCB are focused on articulation of certain dogmas and doctrine , women religous are focused on their mission of service to the poor and marginalized.  The Assessment refers to Sister Laura Brink and quotes “moving beyond Jesus” ” and even the church”. I have read the entire text from which this quote was taken and suggest everyone do so.  In no way are those words, taken from her presentation at the 2007 LCWR annual meeting, an advocacy for sojourning beyond the church. She explicitly states her presentation( on pursuing holiness in the 21st century) is her personal reflection of her own experience of religous life & its’ possible future and do not represent opinions of the LCWR, the Roman Catholic Church, the Dominicans of Sinsinawa(the order to which she belongs), or Dominicans of the US. Sister Brink, who professed her final vows in 1998, is a Biblical Scholar at the Catholic Union Theological Seminary in Chicago.

I leave you with this quote from Speaking with Authority: Catherine of Siena and the Voices of Women of Today,
by Katherine Hilkert, which Sr. Brink used at the end of her reflection.

“when the climate in church or society does not welcome voices that differ, women and men with an authentic passion for the proclomation of the truth need the courage and integrity to speak the truth they see and take the consequences for their speech…Even more painful than the criticism, resistance, and threat that arise from speaking challenging words to those outside the church is the suffering that can result from the perception of the truth within the church.”

Ubi caritas, Deus ibi est

“when the climate in church or society does not welcome voices that differ,
women and men with an authentic passion for the proclomation of the truth
need the courage and integrity to speak the truth they see and take the
consequences for their speech..”

So let’s hear the differing voices from within the LCWR. Don’t squelch them and don’t dare pretend that they don’t exist.

@Kenny
Nuns are collarorative in their approach to leadership, as opposed to the heirarchical aproach of the priesthood.  I am aware of no order of silence from LCWR leadership for those within their membership who wish to voice differing views.  If you have such information, I would like to see it.

Mary Blair:

You are indeed either a LCWR nun or are lost in heterodoxy.  Whatever do you mean when you say, “when the climate in church or society does not welcome voices that differ,
women and men with an authentic passion for the proclomation of the truth
need the courage and integrity to speak the truth they see and take the
consequences for their speech..”

So let’s hear the differing voices from within the LCWR. Don’t squelch them and don’t dare pretend that they don’t exist.” 

How dare you suggest they the nuns can hold differing views, as they do on core infallible doctrine!  When you talk about differing views or dialogue what it means is compromise…..there can be no compromise on doctrines of the Church…the LCWR cannot overrule Jesus Christ.  It is a shame you don’t understand this.

Mary Blair:

You said, “Nuns are collarorative in their approach to leadership, as opposed to the heirarchical aproach of the priesthood.  I am aware of no order of silence from LCWR leadership for those within their membership who wish to voice differing views.  If you have such information, I would like to see it.”

This is simply untrue as stated by LCWR leadership when asked if they have taken a vote of the membership.  The reply was no, we don’t generally do things by vote.

Your criticism of the hierarchy is a perfect example and was cited in the Assessment, Jesus Christ created the hierarchy of the Church and is pure heresy to challenge what Jesus Christ put in place.  This is all very clear in Scripture but I think the LCWR has moved beyond it.

Mary Blair:

You can’t find anything concrete about dissent from doctrine or heretical positions taken by the LCWR….then you are denying the obvious.  The statements made by Sr. Farrell and other spokespersons for the LCWR leave no doubt, they want to define doctrine to suit their view of Church.

So let’s cut to the chase….what are your views….not the LCWR….but yours.  Let’s just discuss one view:

Women priests.  Do you or do you not accept that the Church cannot ordain women into the ministerial priesthood.  If you don’t accept this please explain why.

The let’s talk about abortion.  Do you or do you not see abortion as a non-negotiable intrinsic evil?  Do you or do you not accept Catholic Teaching on abortion?

If we can get these to things established it will set a basis for future discussions.

@ Mike Malone
In the early Catholic church there were a multitude of voices, just like today.  The Holy Spirit assists the teaching authority in and through the human, not apart from it or in spite of it. As Catholics we assume the spirit is present in official church teachers as they carry out their job.  But we also believe the same spirit is present and active in the hearts of ALL the faithful. 

A review of Catholic Church history might be in order on the issue of women priests, celibacy, married clergy,
infallability (dogma-not doctrine), primacy of conscience.

“Over the pope as expression of the binding claim of ecclesiastical authority, there stands one’s own conscience which must be obeyed before all else, even if necessary against the requirement of ecc;esiastical authority. This emphasis on the individual, whose conscience confronts him with a supreme and ultimate tribunal, and one in which in the last resort is beyond the laim of external social groups, even the official church…”
(Joseph Ratzinger in: Commentary on the Documents of Vatican II)

Mary Blair:

If you truly are not a nun they your are their kindred spirit.  But your views to put it mildly are heterodox if not heretical. Let’s begin with your view that the teaching authority of the Church is assisted by the Holy Spirit in and through the human, not apart from it or in spite of it.  The teaching authority of the Church was given by Jesus Christ himself: In Luke 10:16 he confirmed the 72 disciples.  In verse 1 you will find, “And after these things the Lord appointed also other seventy-two: and he sent them two and two before his face into every city and place whither he himself was to come. In verse 16: “He that heareth you, heareth me; and he that despiseth you, despiseth me; and he that despiseth me, despiseth him that sent me. [17] And the seventy-two returned with joy, saying: Lord, the devils also are subject to us in thy name.”  In case you don’t recognize this…..these are the bishops.

You view of the Holy Spirit working through humans is correct.  What you refer to is “Sensus Fidelium” but what you fail to understand is the Sensus Fidelium is only unerring when it is in communion with the Church and the Holy Father.  There is a spirit behind the heterodox views you espouse but it is not the Holy Spirit.  There will always be divergent views in the Church just as there will always be good and bad people in the Church; Read Mt 7:11-25, Christ Himself says in Mt 7:21 - “Not every one that saith to me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven: but he that doth the will of my Father who is in heaven, he shall enter into the kingdom of heaven.”  Only Christ’s Church on earth sets forth infallibly the word of God to be following not a tine group of nuns.

Now to your suggestion that it might be possible to ordain women to the ministeria priesthood.  This goes to you errant understanding of infallibility. In Mt 16:16-19 and again in Luke 22:32 Christ Himself endows Peter and Peter alone with the charism of infallibility on matters of faith an morals.  This is important because this charism is enjoyed by every pope.  If this isn’t enough to convince you then perhaps you might want to understand of tradition (T) where Christ set the structure of the Church and this structure has been upheld by oral tradition and the constant teaching of the ordinary and universal Magesterium.  On May 22, 1994 Pope John Paul released the infallible Apostolic Letter, Ordinatio Sacerdotalis.  Invoking Lk 22:32 he wrote, “Wherefore, in order that all doubt may be removed regarding a matter of great importance, a matter which pertains to the Church’s divine constitution itself, in virtue of my ministry of confirming the brethren (cf. Lk 22:32) I declare that the Church has no authority whatsoever to confer priestly ordination on women and that this judgment is to be definitively held by all the Church’s faithful. In case you missed it this is an infallible declaration direct from the Chair of Peter….women priests will not happen.

To address the matter of priestly celibacy.  That is a small (t) tradition subject to change.  I doubt seriously if it ever will but I could be changed.

To address the matter of the primacy of conscience. There are two states of conscience; right conscience vs wrong conscience.  A right conscience is formed in communion with the pope and the Catholic Church.  A wrong conscience is one that is not.  A person is obliged to follow their conscience.  A person might believe that it is OK to have an abortion on the basis of their personal conscience.  But that choice is only valid if they can claim invincible ignorance of Church and moral law.  Before God that person would hold no guilt.  However, you and the LCWR cannot make that claim.  If you are aware of and refuse to follow the teachings of the Church using personal conscience as your excuse, you have a big problem.

“The primacy of conscience means that one not only may but must follow the right judgment of one’s conscience even when through no fault of one’s own it is mistaken (provided of course that this does not impinge upon the rights of others or conflict with the common good). St Paul had occasion to address this issue in regard to what Christians should do about food that had been sacrificed to idols and was therefore thought taboo (1Cor 8 and Rom 14): ‘Consider the man fortunate who can make his decision without going against his conscience. But anybody who eats in a state of doubt is condemned, because he is not in good faith’ (Rom 14, 22-23). The morality of what one decides is thus for Paul essentially dependent upon one’s clear conviction of being right or ‘in the truth. In this he affirms the primacy of the person (and of conscience), even when he or she is objectively mistaken in good faith (as influenced by the virtue of wisdom of the heart).”                                                             
It is clear that you and the LCWR are eating in doubt.  I suggest you refer to the appropriate passages of the Catechism of the Catholic Church re: conscience.  I think you will find that the only right conscience is one formed in communion with the Church. 

You would do well to look closer for truth by studying the Church rather than following the LCWR.

M. Blair, you wrote “As Catholics we assume the spirit is present in official church teachers as they carry out their job.  But we also believe the same spirit is present and active in the hearts of ALL the faithful.” Well, that’s why there are thousands of Protestant denominations at odds not just with the Catholic Church, but also with each other.  If the Holy Spirit is guiding us ALL, then why are we arguing in the first place.  Without an infallible authority on matters of morality and dogma then ALL become their own authority and are doomed to endless splitting, dilution and ultimately extinction. It is uncanny that the Church survives heretics like you century after century. Be honest, you hate the Church. You don’t have to be in it. When you finally understand that you cannnot be Catholic while attacking the Magisterium, you will at least have attained an integrity of identity that can be respected.