Every Nov. 2, the Church remembers the faithful departed in a special way on All Souls’ Day and dedicates the whole month to the holy souls in purgatory. After that, we sometimes forget that the Church urges us to pray for them all year.
Susan Tassone’s one-woman mission and ministry is to help everyone know the whys and the how-tos of helping those in purgatory. Little wonder she’s affectionately called the “purgatory lady.”
That nickname came during her appearances on EWTN’s “The Abundant Life” with co-hosts Johnnette Benkovic and Holy Cross Father Edmund Sylvia.
“Nobody has done more than Susan has over the years,” says Father Sylvia, citing interviews with her going back to the earliest of her six books. “She’s always one of the people who I pay attention to when her articles appear.”
Tassone’s latest book, Praying With the Saints for the Holy Souls in Purgatory (Our Sunday Visitor, 2009) is the encyclopedia on purgatory.
Cardinal Ivan Dias, prefect of the Congregation for the Evangelization of Peoples, wrote the preface, citing how “she has brought a whole new dimension to this devotion, seeing it through the spiritual writings and tradition of saints throughout the centuries.”
Mercy Mission
In her writings, speaking engagements, radio and EWTN television appearances, Tassone urges all of us to be “apostles of purgatory” to help liberate the holy souls.
Her mission began in 1993, after she realized how positive and consoling the doctrine of purgatory really is. She began to collect Mass stipends for the holy souls and offer them to needy missions and missionaries.
Fervently learning about the holy souls, she became a leading expert on purgatory, sharing her knowledge with everyone.
“In a way, Susan has singlehandedly reawakened this whole devotion in the Church,” says former Vatican official Father Joseph McCabe, a Maryknoll priest and director of the Propagation of the Faith for the Long Island, N.Y., Diocese of Rockville Centre. “All of her books are accessible, easy to read, clear and steeped in very solid theology.”
Tassone explains how God’s great mercy is always in play, what the saints reveal about purgatory and how we can avoid it ourselves. She gives dozens of ways we can constantly relieve these souls and liberate them for heaven.
She stresses that our prayers and merits have great power for them.
Impactful Intercession
She points out what directly impacts the holy souls: Mass, the Rosary, Eucharistic adoration, and the Stations of the Cross.
“The most powerful, efficacious way to help souls out of purgatory is the Mass,” she says, because it’s the highest act of worship and highest form of prayer.
“By assisting at Mass or offering a Mass for a deceased loved one,” she says, “we can apply all these oceans of graces to the holy souls and for ourselves! Who do you miss the most? Who do you wish you could have done more for? Who hurt you? Have a Mass offered for them and offer a Mass for yourself while you are alive. We can do nothing better. Remember the most abandoned souls who have no one in their families who pray for them because they do not believe in the doctrine of purgatory. Pray for priests and consecrated religious. We tend to ‘canonize’ them at their death and cut off our prayers.”
The whole theology for Masses for the poor souls in purgatory has been lost in recent years, says Father McCabe, who sees Tassone bringing attention back to this grace.
And there’s the Rosary, “the most powerful Marian prayer on earth,” Tassone notes. “When we say the Rosary for the souls in purgatory, we offer to God all the merits, joys, suffering and death of our Savior for their relief.”
The third intercession is Eucharistic adoration, where we can offer intercessory prayers, and the fourth is praying the Stations of the Cross.
Through these means of prayer, Tassone stresses, “We gain indulgences attached to these prayers for the holy souls” (see Catechism, 1471).
How many people know they can gain a plenary indulgence daily from Nov. 1-8 when they visit a cemetery and a partial indulgence the rest of the year? The prayers in her latest book are indulgenced too.
Relieving and Releasing
Tassone teaches practices that relieve and release the poor souls. Visit the cemetery and pray for those buried there. Teach children these pious works too.
Pray the “Eternal Rest” prayer and the Divine Mercy Chaplet. Light blessed candles as signs of prayer.
“If we offer up our hardships, accept our illnesses, mistreatment, difficult tasks, humiliations with humble hearts, endure little annoyances uncomplainingly, avoid judging, forgive, and offer these for the intention of aiding souls in purgatory,” she says, “these are the treasures that help them and at the same time enrich your merits for eternity.”
That includes giving alms; the Bible teaches that almsgiving covers a multitude of sins. The Catechism, in 1032, backs all these practices on behalf of the dead.
Masses Matter
The practice of 30 consecutive Gregorian Masses for holy souls dates to Pope St. Gregory the Great in the sixth century. These Masses are “extraordinarily powerful,” according to Tassone, who counsels, “Have Gregorian Masses put in your will.”
Masses for the living are also important, she says.
What can we do to avoid purgatory?
Part of the answer is in our prayer. When we pray for the holy souls, they “become our intercessors and help us reach heaven,” Tassone emphasizes. “When we pray for them, they become our friends forever.”
This appeared originally in the Register’s print edition.
Register staff writer Joseph Pronechen is based in Trumbull, Connecticut.
INFORMATION
Dan Burke: Prayer for the Souls in Purgatory
Matthew Warner: Ask Fr. Barron: How do we keep social networking from becoming superficial?
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Somebody please write in here and tell why they believe there is a purgatory and why it’s not just a made up scary place like Limbo was, before they decided that there wasn’t a Limbo or did Limbo exist before and disappeared in a puff of smoke when the Pope said it didn’t.
Awesome Joseph! - Holy Souls!!!
“Act of Charity”, offer yourself 24/7 to our Blessed Mother for the sake of the Holy Souls and the rest will be a heavenly eternal life of thanksgiving prayer. One that I can guarantee you will not regret, ever! Living (sacrificed life) for the Holy Souls will not only move mountains but your heart. I can not pray like they can, but I do pray for them knowing they will pray for my intentions according to the will of God. Include fasting in your life, surrendering and let God act…and you got it! Peace to all of us.
How does anyone know who is in purgatory?
Singe Mansoor et al: please read the Catechism and http://jloughnan.tripod.com/dogma.htm post-,haste. Your questions will be answered. You’ll have to do the reading and not just keep spinning your wheels.
Faithful: it’s better for us to comprehend purgatory as who isn’t or hasn’t been there rather than trying to figure who is or has. Almost no one leaves the wayfaring state in a condition of immediate readiness to be confronted with the beautific vision. If you think you are, or think someone else is, that is proof positive that you/they need purgatory. O Pride.
Before i converted to Catholicism, and even during the early atages when i started “looking into it” i thought of purgatory as a terrible doctrine. I had all sorts of ideas of it being one thing or another, and it was a very real stumbling block for me.
Luckily, i had the Rosary. Eventually i began to understand more about Purgatory. How it was God’s special grace to allow those of us who might otherwise not be able to enter heaven, to come . A place of purification where we could be “made ready for the banquet” by getting rid of all teh stains, and filth. It is still better to avoid it, to be ready to enter heaven when we leave this world, but i am *reassured* by the notion that if i fall short, i will still get there.
As to how do you know if anyone is in Purgatory? you dont. You can, at best, be certain of who ISNT in purgatory (declared Saints)but other than that anyone could be in purgatory. Best to consider that they may be, and offer the sacrifice of teh Mass for them. If they have entered Heaven, tradition (and several saints) say your offerings will go to assist someone else, and in any event. charity is never a foolish thing.
Singe Mansoor wrote:
“Somebody please write in here and tell why they believe there is a purgatory and why it’s not just a made up scary place like Limbo was, before they decided that there wasn’t a Limbo or did Limbo exist before and disappeared in a puff of smoke when the Pope said it didn’t.”
The Catholic doctrine of Purgatory is not “man-made” place. The holy Scriptures (Old and New Testament) attest to this place of expiation. Nothing defiled can enter heaven [Apocalypse 21:27]. Although our sins have been forgiven and absolved in confession, there is still the debt owed to that sin that must be repaid. This can be done while living on earth by prayers, penance, good works, etc.—or in Purgatory after we die. It is place of purging, of cleansing. Take, for example, the mineral gold. Before it becomes a priceless metal. it must undergo a process to clean it of its impurities. This is the same thing that happens to a soul, before it can become so spotless as to be admitted before the presence of the Beatific Vision, Which God.
There are various scriptural passages that tells or decribes what we call Purgatory. However, there are also actual examples that Purgatory exists.
St. Peter raises Tabithat from the dead. Acts of the Apostles 9:40—“And they all being put forth, Peter kneeling down prayed, and turning to the body, he said: Tabitha, arise. And she opened her eyes; and seeing Peter, she sat up.”
If Tabitha were in heaven, there was no reason for her to come back to earth, having received her reward. If she was in hell, she wouldn’t have been let out. So where was she? On the middle place which was not permanent. This is one proof that Purgtory exists.
Our Lord raised many from the dead, including Lazarus, who wass already some four days dead; prior to the New Dispensation or Testament, the souls of the righteous went to a place called Abraham’s bosum, because heaven was still closed. Was there purgation there? It is not known. But tradition states that Abraham’s bosum became Purgatory. Anyway, the dead which Our Lord raised came from this place because heaven was closed and hell as we know is closed to the soul that goes there.
You can do a scriptural search for Purgatory and you will be given various verses that gives credence to Purgatory.
There are some excellent books on Purgatory. The most recent is called “Hungry Souls”. In it are photos from the Purgatory museum in Rome. The book not only describes visits from souls in Purgatory asking for prayers and Masses (including a Protestant deceased) but photos of hand prints made by the poor soul. All is researched with footnotes should anyone be interested. I found it facinating—and have increased my prayers for the dead.
Brad writes-“Faithful: it’s better for us to comprehend purgatory as who isn’t or hasn’t been there rather than trying to figure who is or has. Almost no one leaves the wayfaring state in a condition of immediate readiness to be confronted with the beautific vision. If you think you are, or think someone else is, that is proof positive that you/they need purgatory. O Pride.”
Pride has nothing to do with it but Christ does. Why the need for purgatory when the death of Christ paid the price in full of our sins?
That means He alone took our punishment and we are cleansed by the blood of Christ. We see this in Colossians 2:13-14
When you were dead in your transgressions and the uncircumcision of your flesh, He made you alive together with Him, having forgiven us all our transgressions,
having canceled out the certificate of debt consisting of decrees against us, which was hostile to us; and He has taken it out of the way, having nailed it to the cross.
and I John 1:7- but if we walk in the Light as He Himself is in the Light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus His Son cleanses us from all sin.
faithful wrote:
“Pride has nothing to do with it but Christ does. Why the need for purgatory when the death of Christ paid the price in full of our sins?
That means He alone took our punishment and we are cleansed by the blood of Christ. We see this in Colossians 2:13-14”
Let me ask you then, since Christ paid the price in full, there is no more sin, we are no longer capable of committing sin? So was the Ten Commandments abolished, or if not, they are no longer in force?
If you told a lie, that is not a sin? If you committed murder, was this sin already forgiven? If you looked at a woman with lust or laviciously, you don;t commit adultery in your heart? Does Our Lord’s words no longer have any meaning? The self-interpretation of Colossians is what gets one in trouble (see 2 Peter 3:16—“... which the unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, to their own destruction.”
You omitted Colossians 2:22—“[22] Which all are unto destruction by the very use, according to the precepts and doctrines of men.”
The Catholic Church teaches that Christ PAID the ransom which held humanity under the bondage of sin (Satan). In other words, He redeemed us from damnation and gave us one more chance to gain heaven, a chance denied the bad angels. This is known as the doctrine of Redemption. There is also what is known as the doctrine of Atonement. It would behoove you to study these so as not to fall into error which leads men where they dare read the Scriptures and immerse themselves in self-interpretation.
Through the death of Christ on the Cross, we have been redeemed from total damnation. However, because of our fallen nature, concupiscence remains. We still need to be reborn in Baptism and have faith in Him (Mark 16:16— “He that believeth and is baptized, shall be saved: but he that believeth not shall be condemned.”). Just think: why would the Evangelist write those words if we still can be condemned?
Christ paid for your sins but we are not excused from sin. We are only cleansed of our sins when we repent and confess them sincerely. In His Infinite Mercy, God gives us a chance to achieve Heaven even if we’re not fully ready to be in His Presence.
Does Christ Cross and resurrection pay for all our sins? Even those committed by murderous, non-repentent people who have died in sin in the past? Of course not, otherwise what would be the purpose of our existence? Of the Saints great sacrifices? Of our good will? Of trying to avoid sin or doing sacrifices? His Death and Resuurection are an example of how we are to live our lives. He restored the gates of Heaven for all people - to give us a chance to get to Heaven. Up until Our Lord’s Death, no human person who ever lived was in Heaven, due to the fall of Adam and Eve.
If we are unrepentent of our sins to Jesus and not merciful towards others, “We are to be turned over to the torturers until every last penny is paid before we get out” (don’t recall the location of the passage). Where do we get out from in this passage? If not Heaven? And we can’t ever get out of hell. That leaves purgatory.
Either we believe or we don’t. If not, and we are not sure, we must at least consider the damage we could be doing to the faith of others. One of us is definitely wrong. I stand on the absolute belief that there is a purgatory and the Holy Rosary prayer to the Virgin Mary was given to help souls on earth and in purgatory. If I’m wrong, I stand on the example of Mercy from Jesus and the work of the Virgin Mary.
If our faith is not where it should be, and it turns into more of a battle of scriptures to somehow prove we’re right, we may be doing that which is against God for our own benefit (pride). Because it interrupts people from praying for loved ones or other people that they don’t even know trapped in purgatory - who are in need of our prayers and not our tears. And, for that He we will be held accountable.
Vincent wrote-“Let me ask you then, since Christ paid the price in full, there is no more sin, we are no longer capable of committing sin? So was the Ten Commandments abolished, or if not, they are no longer in force?
If you told a lie, that is not a sin? If you committed murder, was this sin already forgiven? If you looked at a woman with lust or laviciously, you don;t commit adultery in your heart? Does Our Lord’s words no longer have any meaning? The self-interpretation of Colossians is what gets one in trouble (see 2 Peter 3:16—“... which the unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, to their own destruction.”
You omitted Colossians 2:22—“[22] Which all are unto destruction by the very use, according to the precepts and doctrines of men.”
It is true we still struggle with sin. It is in our fallen flesh as Romans 7:14-25 says. Christ has provided forgiveness in I John 1:9 and His blood cleanses us from all sin. It is the blood of Christ alone (I John 1:7) that cleanses us and not the “fires” of a purgatory.
The article quotes: “Remember the most abandoned souls who have no one in their families who pray for them because they do not believe in the doctrine of purgatory.”
But Jesus said, “I will never leave you or forsake you. I will never leave you orphans.” In other places, like in Romans, Sacred Scripture tells us we will NEVER be separated from God. So HOW can any child of God be an “abandoned” soul? It will not happen. God is trustworthy.
If only Roman Catholics would READ the Bible - in context!!! “Absent from the body, present WITH THE LORD.”
Jesus died for all OUR sins, as ALL our sins were in advance, 2000 years ago. We cannot surprise God. He is all-knowing. So we are either “in-Him”, we the branches, and HE, the Vine, and God is “our Father”.
Or we are of the world’s father - the devil. It really is either/or. As children of God, the Holy Spirit SEALS us, and that is our comfort, our help and our security, until we rest with Him, in Heaven.
Those who don’t accept Purgatory are like those who don’t accept Hell.
What they do not want to exist—-does not exist for them. Cardinal John Henry Newman (150 years ago) called it superficial, humanistic mentality.
He said that we cherish a shallow, hollow religion, a cheerful religion—bright and sunny and joyous; taking what is beautiful and attractive and shrinking from what is stern and painful…
It would seem that those who think like this are eliminating (in their minds) God’s Holy Justice. That is not going to happen in the next life, no matter how hard it is ignored and brushed aside in this life.
Pat wrote-“Those who don’t accept Purgatory are like those who don’t accept Hell.”
This is not true. The problem is that Scripture does not teach purgatory but it does teach that the Lord Jesus paid the price in full for our sins and His blood cleanses us from all sin. Only His blood can cleanse us from sin and not fire. Hell is a reality. It is clearly taught in Scripture and the only way to avoid it is to trust and believe in Christ that He died for our sins and rose again.
I know this goes against what our Catholic church teaches, however, I can find no evidence in Scripture whereby you can pray a dead person into Heaven. This article: “Susan Tassone speaks about the best ways to help the souls in purgatory” —-I mean, really? Are we suppose to accept her article as expert testimony? Sounds like feel good or comfort theology. No sale.
I agree with Faithful and Observer’s comment 11/8/10 1:58PM. There IS a place and/or a state called “Hell”. Jesus spoke of it. The Bible tells us a LOT about Hell.
But Jesus did NOT speak of Purgatory. In fact, what we know through Scripture, as Faithful points out, would cause a true seeker/believer in God to know there is no such place. Jesus’ work did it ALL for us, on the Cross. He was the Sacrifice, and it is by His grace that we are saved.
We are not saved partially, where Jesus did some of the work and we do the rest of the work. We do no work at all “so that no man should boast”.
We are saved FOR good works, by not BY good works, and God’s grace is complete. There is no Purgatory. There IS a Hell.
Please, fellow Catholics: Read the Sacred Scriptures, from cover to cover. The Bible is His love letter to His children. Read it!
observer (and faithful) said:
“There is no Purgatory. There IS a Hell. Please, fellow Catholics: Read the Sacred Scriptures, from cover to cover.”
Before you give such an advice, open your mind and perhaps take the log out of your eye so you can read better.
I have given the most valid evidence and proof on Purgatory (see my entry above) but for your benefit in case you read between the lines, here it is again.
This is regarding Tabitha, a Christian follower, who got sick and died. Peter was called about this.
KJ version, Chapter 9: 40 et seq.):
40 But Peter put them all forth, and kneeled down, and prayed; and turning [him] to the body said, Tabitha, arise. And she opened her eyes: and when she saw Peter, she sat up.
41 And he gave her [his] hand, and lifted her up, and when he had called the saints and widows, presented her alive.
42 And it was known throughout all Joppa; and many believed in the Lord.
Where was Tabitha at the time after her death? Not in Hell because nobody leaves hell who has been condemned there. Neither was she in Heaven, the final destination of the righteous, because why would anyone return to the human body that been corrupted by sin and has been made corrupt. Therefore, there is a middle stage, a place where the faithful departed await to be purified before they can enter in the Presence of the Beatific Vision, Who is God. Nothing defiled can enter heaven (look this verse up in the book of Revelation).
How many did Jesus raise from the dead? Many. As we know, before the death of Jesus on the Cross, the gates of Heaven were still shut closed. Nobody could enter. Hell already existed. When Jesus raised Lazarus (and others) from the dead, they couldn’t have been in Hell, because we know once there you don’t get out. And Lazarus couldn’t have in heaven. Where was he?
It doesn’t matter if you deny the existence of Purgatory—it will not become non-existent by your denial.
The Protestants took away some books of the Bible (the Septuagint, which was the Bible of the Old Testament which Jesus and His disciples referred to in their discource)—one of these Books (Maccabees) speaks of Purgatory. Of course you don’t know this because you have been denied of this important part of the holy Scriptures. It is your duty, if you want to be saved, to know more what the Scriptures say and not rely on a few verses that agree with your interpretation. Your loss if you don’t.
We have all this admonition to Catholics about “read the Bible, etc.” We do read the Bible and we know what the Bible teaches because after all the Church gave the Bible to world (though sadly, many new versions are defective and erroneous).
Do Protestants really read the Bible or do they read only verses that agree with their preconceived notion of what they want to believe?
Not everything can be found in the Bible. See John 16:12; 21:24-25.
“Once saved, always saved”—yet the following verse is disregarded: “with fear and trembling work out your salvation” (Philippians 2:12)
“Enter the narrow gate”—many do not find it and are lost.
“Unless you eat my flesh and drink my blood you have no life in you.”
And so on ... not everything is in the Bible and for those who read between the lines, your salvation is at risk.
There is no purgatory, and Christ did all the work so we can coast into Heaven?? These are Protestant ideas, not Catholic. I have to say that this is proof that the faith has not been taught in the last 40 years. The Catholic Church has ALWAYS believed in Purgatory and prayers for the dead. If you want to be your own Pope, and start your own religion then don’t accept it. That does not make it go away. You are trying to make what you read and how you interpret it—your sole reason to deny Purgatory. So again I say what you don’t believe does not exist for you. Do you also deny the ocean because you don’t live near, and you can’t see it? Just like Purgatory it will still exist without you, and its doors will be shut at the end of the world. As Catholics we use tradition also not just the Bible that many (without a guide) misinterpret.
Purgatory is a dogma of the Catholic Church, a doctrine. It is an article of Faith. To reject it goes contrary to the Church’s teaching. I would follow the Faith and its teachers (the Pope, priests and theologians, the great writers like St Thomas Aquinas, father John Hardon etc. ) rather than a person that says they are a “cradle Catholic” then gives me Protestant opinions on the subject.
Sure we can all read the Bible and get all kinds of different meanings—without the proper guidance. Not everything we Catholics believe is in the Bible, we have tradition. Catholics DO NOT believe that Christ “paid in full for our sins”—Protestants do though. They think that takes care of it all and they don’t have to do a thing but “accept the Lord”
in the Old Testament prayers were offered for the dead so that they might be released from their sin (2M.12:41-45). We remember the deceased at every Mass—if you listen. Purgatory is referred to as “the Church suffering”. I suggest you stop listening to TV Evangelicals and find Catholic books on the subject—or you will end up another cafeteria Catholic picking and choosing what you want to believe.
Patt wrote on Monday, Nov 8, 2010 10:23 PM (EDT): “There is no purgatory, and Christ did all the work so we can coast into Heaven?? These are Protestant ideas, not Catholic. I have to say that this is proof that the faith has not been taught in the last 40 years. The Catholic Church has ALWAYS believed in Purgatory and prayers for the dead”
Jesus nor His apostles ever taught such a thing as purgatory. This idea did not start until centuries later.
If Christians are to pray to the dead, then why don’t we see any teaching, exhortations or examples of in the NT?
Faithful-
We don’t see any instructions to pray to the dead, because it would contradict all the other verses that instruct us NOT to try to communicate with the physically dead. They are alive in Heaven, but not alive as they were. There is NO MORE communication with them, and no praying TO them or FOR them. If only Catholics would read Scripture in context, and stop taking Old Testament verses out of context and using it as doctrine. It becomes “some NEW doctrine” and we are warned against it.
Faithful (but not to Catholic doctrine) are you even Catholic?. Probably not—or perhaps you have not been taught the Faith. All of your arguments are Protestant, which is fine if you are one. As Christ said, “You have eyes but you do not see, you have ears but you do not hear.” Obviously you do not have any Catholic reading material or we would not be having this discussion. You seem to choose to remain in your gentle world with a shallow, but cheerful and sunny religion that asks nothing of you, and allows you to avoid the stern and painful. Christ did say we will pay to the last farthing for our evil deeds, but that does not seem to concern you either. So just hope for the best as long as you insist on deluding yourself and not seeking the truth. It has been presented here but you refuse to heed it. You are on your own, brother, may the Holy Spirit guide you and help you to see the light.
Patt, have you examined the tone of all your prior posts? Seems you enjoy looking down your nose at Faithful (and others) with inflamatory and accusatory judgments which are hardly Christ-like.
Pray. And the Holy Spirit will give you the KNOWLEDGE of what you seek.
If we lack knowledge is because we lack, PRAYER. Period. Just Pray. And Pray especially for me. Thank you!
Observer—It is pretty hard to be patient with those that refuse to listen. After your death, do you want your relatives to forget you and not pray for the repose of your soul, because in their minds they don’t believe in it—and you sit roasting in Purgatory? I do not want that, but people that blind themselves about this will be doing that. True, I am not a good apologist, nor have I the patience of a saint, but after awhile it gets frustrating trying to reason with those that insist on remaining blind. Again, I do not believe I am arguing with Catholics, unless they have never been taught these things. And how do I know they are not trying to bait me? I don’t. And who amongst us doesn’t judge? You have judged me quite well.
Patt wrote on 11-8—”..Catholics DO NOT believe that Christ “paid in full for our sins”—Protestants do though. They think that takes care of it all and they don’t have to do a thing but “accept the Lord”...”
If Christ did not pay the full price for our sins then you are not speaking of the gospel of Christ which says He has paid the full price. You may not be familar with Colossians 2:13-14 which refutes the idea that Christ did not pay the full price for our sins. Here is what the passage says in regards to our sins-
“13 When you were dead in your transgressions and the uncircumcision of your flesh, He made you alive together with Him, having forgiven us all our transgressions,
14 having canceled out the certificate of debt consisting of decrees against us, which was hostile to us; and He has taken it out of the way, having nailed it to the cross.”
Couple this with I John 1:7 which tells us the blood of Christ cleanses us all from sin, what need of purgatory?
Patt-
I am a Cradle Catholic, with 12 years of Catholic education, and my mother taught catechism for years (7th grade boys) and was able to teach the Catholic faith to them well. I never left the Church, and continue to go to Mass each Sunday, to worship with my fellow parishioners.
That said, the way I go to KNOW God was when a Protestant friend encouraged me to sit down and read the Bible, from cover to cover. I remember thinking: “WHY DIDN’T ANYONE EVER TEACH ME THIS?” It’s really very simple, and there is SECURITY in knowing God, in that He is a loving Father, and trustworthy.
I believe more like Faithful, as a result of just reading the Word. It is the Gold Standard of Measure for the Christian’s walk.
It is almost a futile endeavor to try to convince the bible-only crowd that say there are verses that don’t exist though we try to point it out to them, they would still refuse to accept them.
The resaon: these folks have already preconceoved their own belief of what salvation is, so they seek in the Bible those verses that they think serves their purpose and agrees with their belief, then disregard everything else that don’t. This is a dishonest way of interpreting what Jesus actually taught. And at the very least, they are deluding themselves in following the wrong doctrine (traditions of men) unto their own destruction (see 2 Peter 3:16).
Further, they threw out sacred Tradition and the Deutero-Canonical books which were part of the Septuagint (labled by the KJV as “Apocrypha.”) By whose authority did they throw out these important parts of the Deposit of Faith? Isn’t that tampering with the work of Christ and His Apostles?
For the benefit of those sola-biblia adherents: the Bible is not complete. Have you read these verses (be honest)—if so, what do they mean?
John 16:12 “I have yet many things to say to you: but you cannot bear them now.”
John 21: 25 “But there are also many other things which Jesus did; which, if they were written every one, the world itself, I think, would not be able to contain the books that should be written.”
So where do we find those things that Jesus had yet to say and do that is not found in the Bible? In Sacred Tradition (with a capital “T”) which Protestants do not have. Therefore your salvation is lacking and not complete.
Faithful wrote:
Jesus nor His apostles ever taught such a thing as purgatory. This idea did not start until centuries later.
If Christians are to pray to the dead, then why don’t we see any teaching, exhortations or examples of in the NT?
Luke 12:59 I say to thee, thou shalt not go out thence, until thou pay the very last mite.
Go whence? To heaven. The debt must be paid here on earth, or if you die before paying the full debt, in Purgatory. Nobody enters heaven by a direct route. Don’t delude yourselves that you are completely sinless or debt-free.
1 Cor 3:15 “If any man’s work burn, he shall suffer loss; but he himself shall be saved, yet so as by fire.”
There is fire in Purgatory, for purification, just as gold is purfied by fire, so is man’s soul before it can be admitted in the Presence of God, who is all-holy.
Matt 12:32 “And whosoever shall speak a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but he that shall speak against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, nor in the world to come.”
This speaks of forgiveness in the “next” world—not Hell where souls who die unrepentant of grevious sin are sent. Nor in Heaven, because in Heaven, there are no more sins to be forgiven or atoned. Therefore, the place spoken of is Purgatory.
The following is the Book that Protestants threw out because it speaks of Purgatory, a place they deny and reject and refuse to believe in.
2 Maccabees 12:
43] And making a gathering, he sent twelve thousand drachms of silver to Jerusalem for sacrifice to be offered for the sins of the dead, thinking well and religiously concerning the resurrection,
44] (For if he had not hoped that they that were slain should rise again, it would have seemed superfluous and vain to pray for the dead,)
45] And because he considered that they who had fallen asleep with godliness, had great grace laid up for them.
[46] It is therefore a holy and wholesome thought to pray for the dead, that they may be loosed from sins.
Though difficult as I have tried to convince that Purgatory is scriptural, many already have hardened their hearts and will refuse to believe (see Psalms 94:8-11 “Today if you shall hear his voice, harden not your hearts”).
Vincent-
1) The Book of Maccabees contains history and information that is useful for a Christian life. But it is NOT to be used for Doctrine, and especially not for doctrine that contradicts Scripture truths, such as those that are in the Deposit of Faith, the body of saving knowledge left to us by the Apostles.
2) When we read verses of the Bible that differ from the Deposit of Faith, we first need to look to see WHO is being addressed. Is it for a Christian or a Pharisee? There is a big difference by how the verse is interpreted, if it is not being said to a believing and practicing Christian.
3) If today we hear HIS voice, yes, we are warned not to harden our hearts. And us having to pay a price for our OWN sins, here on earth or in Purgatory, is NOT “Good News”.
The Good News is that Jesus paid our debt in full, at the Cross, and we, as Christians, surrender our lives to Him now, while we are on earth, and He knows what it is to be human, so we have Jesus as our Advocate to the Father, forever making intercession on our behalf, and forgiving us daily, until we rest forever with Him, in Heaven.
There is no Purgatory, a second chance, where we are further purified. The Blood of Jesus is all we need to have, as payment for ALL our sins. It is not a free pass to sin. Paul addressed that 2000 years ago. To be a real Christian is actually much harder than to be a pagan.
There IS a requirement of us = it is being dead to self, and alive in Him. It is no longer I that live, but Jesus lives IN us.
Cradle Catholic wrote:
>>>> I am a Cradle Catholic, with 12 years of Catholic education, and my mother taught catechism for years (7th grade boys) and was able to teach the Catholic faith to them well. I never left the Church, and continue to go to Mass each Sunday, to worship with my fellow parishioners.
That said, the way I go to KNOW God was when a Protestant friend encouraged me to sit down and read the Bible, from cover to cover. I remember thinking: “WHY DIDN’T ANYONE EVER TEACH ME THIS?” It’s really very simple, and there is SECURITY in knowing God, in that He is a loving Father, and trustworthy. <<<<<
First of all, you are on your way to becoming a Protestant. By the way, what were you doing during Catechism class or CCD? You must hav been sleeping or cutting classes because Catechism is the way the Church teaches the Bible. You don’t have to read “cover to cover” as claimed by Protestants because as you have seen, they don’t really read it through the way they say. If they did they would never have extra-biblical teachings such as “once saved, always saved” or “justification by faith ‘alone’” etc. Jesus said, if you wish to be saved, pick up your cross and follow me. The way of the cross is not easy—thus salvation is not, because a Christian has to “work out his salvation with fear and trembling.” Jesus also said, “enter the narrow gate” for this leads to salvation. Again, “Unless you eat my Flesh and drink my Blood you will have no life in you and whosoever eats my Flesh and drinks my Blood I will raise him up in the last day (read: he will be saved).
Protestants, as I have repeatedly said, read only the verses that agree with them and discard the rest. Fine way to read the Bible cover to cover.
Vincent-
1) Protestants in mainline Bible-believing denominations, are Christian.
2) I had twelve years of Catholic education. So I had no catechism classes. Trust me, in those days, we had nuns, strict nuns; there was no cutting classes, or sleeping through them. I learned well from the good nuns!
But when I read the Bible, it was NEW information for me. I found an assurance in God - I got to know the Father better, as well as the Son, and it was by the power of the Holy Spirit. Fellow Catholic-Christians, with backgrounds similar to mine, have had similar experiences, just by becoming Bible-literate.
3) What is “The Good News” in your own words?
Cradle Catholic, I can see that you are now just about covered with the cloak of Protestantism, because you are now denying and protesting what the Church has taught always, everywhere and by all.
By the way, this is the Canon and Rule for the threefold test of Catholicity (universality): oecumenicity, antiquity, and consent, and what differentiates between true and false traditions. Protestantism does not have this Canon because it came into existence only 500 years ago. But now the splintered denominations are claiming to be the true religion, while contradicting one another in interpreting the Bible. Which Protestant church is giving you this false direction and false hope? There are 24,000 of them out there.
You wrote: “The Book of Maccabees contains history and information that is useful for a Christian life. But it is NOT to be used for Doctrine, and especially not for doctrine that contradicts Scripture truths, such as those that are in the Deposit of Faith, the body of saving knowledge left to us by the Apostles.”
Now this is plain dishonest. How can you say that when you haven’t even read it because it is not in your Bible. That statement lacks verisimilitude, typical of a protestant retort in defense of something that is not fully comprehended.
For your benefit—The book treats of the letters of the Jews of Jerusalem giving thanks for their deliverance from Antiochus: and exhort their brethren to keep the feast of the dedication of the altar, and of the miraculous fire.
2 Macc 1 (Douay-Rheims): [1] To the brethren the Jews that are throughout Egypt, the brethren, the Jews that are in Jerusalem, and in the land of Judea, send health, and good peace. [2] May God be gracious to you, and remember his covenant that he made with Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, his faithful servants: [3] And give you all a heart to worship him, and to do his will with a great heart, and a willing mind. [4] May he open your heart in his law, and in his commandments, and send you peace. [5] May he hear your prayers, and be reconciled unto you, and never forsake you in the evil time.
Now does that read historical, informational, non doctrinal and contradictory? Whoever is coaxing you about the Bible is corrupting you and you best flee or you can no longer call yourself “Cradle Catholic” because you are putting yourself outside the Church, creating a schism, if it is not apostasy.
“There is no Purgatory”—by whose authority do you validate that? I have given you verses from the Scriptures that prove the existence of Purgatory and you simpy ignore and skirt commenting on them. That is not true biblical exegesis and hermeneutics.
“When we read verses of the Bible that differ from the Deposit of Faith, we first need to look to see WHO is being addressed. Is it for a Christian or a Pharisee?”
Huh?
The Deposit of Faith is the Holy Bible, Sacred Tradition and the teaching office of the Church. Giw can there be a difference or contradiction?
As far as I know, there were Pharisees, Sadducees, Gentiles, but nobody was ever called a “Christian” in the Gospels and only twice in the Epistles (ACTS and 1 Peter). As far as we know, because of their hardened hearts the Pharisees and Sadducees—brood of vipers—were far from being converted.
How come I know much about the Bible and yet we differ in what is taught? Because it is the Church that teaches, not a collection books, which is a only a “roadmap.” There was Church for 400 years before the Canon of the Bible was issued. Converts were gained by oral teaching, not by reading a book. What happened to those who didn’t have a Bible between the year 33 up to the invention of the printing press? Were they lost and damned?
Let’s take the doctrine of the Eucharist (John Ch 6)? You should know this because you claim to be a Catholic. You know therefore that many took this as very hard teaching and almost all of Christ’s followers walked away. Jesus said to the Twelve, are you also walking away? Are you one of those that is walking away from this doctrine? What is your protest? Remember, He will ask you at your perticular judgment: “Why did you deny Me and refused the Food I gave for the nourishment of your soul? What kind of answer will you give?
The only question that Jesus the Judge will ask at our death is: “Were you faithful to me?” The answer better be YES, according to His teaching, not the watered down pick-and-choose cafeteria doctrine of those who pretend to be Christian.
Vincent wrote: “Protestants, as I have repeatedly said, read only the verses that agree with them and discard the rest. Fine way to read the Bible cover to cover.”
That may be true of some but this still would not prove that Roman Catholicism is true. Since the topic is purgatory, how do you explain why there are no prayers for the dead in the NT? Secondly, how does your church know who is there and not in hell? These are just some of the issues related to purgatory. Indulgences also are part of this.
Vincent, you are correct in your explanations. You have explained the Church’s teachings perfectly. God bless you for taking the time to write it out. It is sad that what you have stated continues to be dismissed and rejected, because it is the Truth. I must agree with you, it is futile to continue the discussion.
I know the Roman Catholic Church is true, because Christ is its founder. Look it up in a history book—who did you think founded the Catholic Church? It dates back to the time of Christ. This is Historical FACT.
Its truths are based on Christ’s teachings, not Martin Luther or Joseph Smith, Calvin or any other Protestant founder. Please look up the founder ofeach religion (Baptist, Anglican, Mormon, Catholic etc.) it is on the internet. When it comes to the Roman Catholic Church it tells you that it was founded by Christ.
Vincent- you wrote to me:
“I can see that you are now just about covered with the cloak of Protestantism, because you are now denying and protesting what the Church has taught always, everywhere and by all.”
To that, I say:
What I am covered in is the saving Blood of Jesus the Christ, my Lord! When God the Father sees me, He sees Jesus IN me. So it is not I that lives, but Jesus that is IN me. That is what saves. Saving FAITH.
Patt, thank you for your comment. I agree that this discussion is going nowhere and it’s time to move on.
It is unfortunate that the sola scriptura people say that if it is not in the Bible, it can’t be true or it has not happened. Who has prompted this thought on them? Surely, there are only two religions in the world, the true religion brought by Christ for the salvation of mankind and the false religion of Satan who is determined to destroy what Christ established. There are no in-betweens. It is either/or. The devil has won many souls for himself, so he really doesn’t bother to make in-roads with these people, so he goes after the true followers of Christ.
Unfortunately, many of these fall for his ruse and are on the road to perdition.
The majority of Protestants, Evangelicals and Fundamentalists don’t even know where the Bible came from or who authorized the books that make up the Bible. They perhaps think it fell from heaven right into their laps. This is because they don’t know history. John Henry Cardinal Newman (now on the way to canonization) said: “To be deep in history is to cease to be Protestant.” How true! One Protestant convert friend of mine told me that when he was in divinity school, very little of church history was covered and their studies was a fast forward to Luther and the Refprmation. They didn’t discussed history because the teaching of the Church Fathers was a contadiction to their new found religion.
By the way, who was the First Protestant? Lucifer, of course, when he rebelled against God and said “I will not serve!” This cry of rebellion goes on in our age. Is there no better parallel?
Before taking leave and get on with it, I want to explain why the Bible cannot be the only rule to salvation. First of all, it does not contain everything that Christ did or said. I cited two verses in support of this.
What the Bible lacks can be found in Sacred Tradition. Because knowing Tradition, everything becomes clear what the Bible says and teaches.
Let’s take a family gathering or a reunion of alumni. Everybody gathers and enjoys looking at pictures and comments in the albums or school yearbooks. What they see and read is what they get. Now, behind these pictures there are memories which have not been written down. These memories are etched in the minds of those who shared them in the years they were together. This is tradition, the passing on of memories through the years. For every picture and comment found in the yearbooks are stories that give life to these. And thus with the deposit of faith. Holy Scriptures and Sacred Tradition go hand in hand and to complement this is the Magisterium, the teaching authority of the Church, who has to this day already interpreted what the Bible teaches. There is no OTHER interpretation. This is what Cradle Catholic missed when he went to Catholic school. There are Bible readings in religion class but also the formation of the Christian conscience through the catechism (the Baltimore or the St. Charles Borromeo’s Roman Catechism). Everything about what the Bible teaches is covered in the Catechism. This is the simpler way to know what the Bible says rather than to read it cover to cover like a mystery novel or non fiction book. The passages in the Bible are difficult to understand, and this is explained in ACTS Chapter 8 (the eunuch and the Apostle Philip):
[30] And Philip running thither, heard him reading the prophet Isaias. And he said: Thinkest thou that thou understandest what thou readest?
[31] Who said: And how can I, unless some man shew me? And he desired Philip that he would come up and sit with him. [32] And the place of the scripture which he was reading was this: He was led as a sheep to the slaughter; and like a lamb without voice before his shearer, so openeth he not his mouth. [33] In humility his judgment was taken away. His generation who shall declare, for his life shall be taken from the earth? [34] And the eunuch answering Philip, said: I beseech thee, of whom doth the prophet speak this? of himself, or of some other man? [35] Then Philip, opening his mouth, and beginning at this scripture, preached unto him Jesus.
Who are the authorized interpreters and teachers of the Scriptures? The Apostles and their successors—this is what is known as Apostolic succseeion: As the Father sent Jesus, so did Jesus send the Apostles and the Apostles sent their successors down to this present age, the bishops of the Church. Nobody can appropriate for himself as an authorized teacher unless *sent* by apostolic succession. In the times of the Apostles, when a teacher came to a village or town to preach, the first thing asked of him is “Who sent you?” And this man had to show a letter from one of the Apostles as a validation and authorization. Without this authorization, the man would have been sent away. He was not qualified.
There I have said enough.
Vincent wrote:
“What the Bible lacks can be found in Sacred Tradition.”
________________________________________________________
Vincent, you are the first Catholic—or Christian I have ever heard say that the Bible is lacking——in anything.
Let’s see what Peter—the First pope—had to say about that.
“And we have the word of the prophets made more certain, and you will do well to pay attention to it, as to a light shining in a dark place, until the day dawns and the morning star rises in your hearts.”
(2 Peter 1: 19)
Crystal, you did not read Vincent’s explanation of Tradition, did you? You ask a question are given the answer and then totally ignore it.In fact it is obvious that nobody has bothered to read his explanations or those of any other orthodox Catholic writing in. Yet we are told to “read the Bible”—over and over. Surprise! We do, but it doesn’t stop there. We read not just the Bible only—we read the catechism, Apologetics, Catholic history, encyclicals, books of saints, etc.. The Catholic Church has a rich, 2000 year history to dive into and some of the world’s greatest writers.
Crystal, I’m sorry, by “Bible” I was referring to the New Testament.
In the three years of Christ’s ministry and up to the martyrdom of St. Peter, and for another 300 years or more into the future, the New Testament as we have it today was not yet compiled. So therefore, St. Peter was referring to the Old Testament, from which Christ and the Apostles quoted from. The Greek Old Testament, referred to as the Septuagint (70 books) was in existence in 285 BC and was complete. The Canon of the Bible (Old and New) was codified sometime in 382 AD, which included the Septuagint. The Protestants used or are using the Old Testament from the Masoretic Hebrew which was not compiled until the year 1000 AD. The Jewish Council of Jamnia when the Canon of the Hebrew Old Testament was promulgated, the 7 books of the Deuterocanonical were discarded because (as was believed) there were too many converts to the new religion of the Apostles. But that is another discussion.
How would you interpret John’s Gospel where he states that if everything that Jesus did were to be written, not all the books in the world could
contain them. And Jesus told the Apostles that He had yet many things to tell them but they could not bear them—see John 16:12—they needed the inspiration of the Holy Spirit who was to come on Pentcost and be the Advocate of the new Church built upon the Rock of Peter (Kephas—Aramaic for Rock), the Church that still stands today—the Catholic Church.
Patt and Vincent: St. Paul’s letters to Timothy and Titus indicate that these new and young church leaders were to teach the faith they were given, and not allow anyone to add “some new doctrine” to it.
So when anyone or anything CONTRADICTS the faith Paul handed down, it must be rejected. Church fathers even disagreed amongst themselves about certain important points. They may have had great insight on several points, but they were not in total agreement about everything. It is then that a Christian must go to WHAT WAS HANDED DOWN in the Deposit of Faith, and not add to it.
John was referring to all the miracles that Jesus did, when he wrote that it could not be contained in all the books in the world. It didn’t mean that the amount of new doctrine would grow, or change, or morph, or become modernized.
Even the boys on Catholic Answers claim they are in “sales” and not in the “administration” of the faith. So as far as “Apologists”, they can go whatever way the Magesterium wants them to go. That’s hardly what St. Paul had in mind for Timothy and for Titus, when he instructed them to hold FIRM to the faith they were taught.
Paul learned the faith directly from the Holy Spirit. And Paul was an excellent writer of letters. All we need to know is in the New Testament. The Old Testament is profitable, and it is to allow God to reveal Himself to us.
How I pray my fellow Catholics would just study even the New Testament - all of it, and in CONTEXT. Not just bits and pieces.
... I forgot to add this verse, “All things will pass away, but My Word will never pass away.”
ALL things will pass away - the world, as we know it. But God’s WORD will never pass away.
Cradle Catholic,
where is your theology degree? It could not have come from a Catholic education. No, you will not be my authority, because you continue to have it incomplete. You have a grain of knowledge that you think will make a loaf of bread. It is what apostates (those who renounce Catholic beliefs) peddle, half baked truths. All Bibical references do not complete the Roman Catholic Faith. I am sure you have read that even the Devil is able to quote scripture—for his own purposes. That is why the Catholic Church gives us the proper guidance, so we don’t lose our way.
Patt-
Your tone is not at all charitable. Have you considered that? I know that often when thoughts are put into print, not verbalized, it can have a harsher tone. But I read your comments several times; they come across as harsh.
The Fruit of the Holy Spirit is: love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, gentleness, faithfulness, and self-control.
I have no theology degree. I just love to read the Sacred Scriptures.
Cradle Catholic:—
You have not really added anything to your latest reply to me; it’s the same old argument you keep putting on. First of all, what you are arguing begs the question and it is a logical fallacy known as circular reasoning.
I have not see any citation of your references, so I would have to assume this are “ipse dixits” (“you yourself say it”). On the other hand, I have given you verses from the BIble to support my argument. I have even tried citing references from Church authorities (saints, popes, doctroes of the Church).
I don’t know how much more the moderators of this forum will allow space here but I hope for this last time on my part.
You wrote:—
>>>> Patt and Vincent: St. Paul’s letters to Timothy and Titus indicate that these new and young church leaders were to teach the faith they were given, and not allow anyone to add “some new doctrine” to it. <<<<
Are you sure of what you are saying?
1. The “altar call”—where one is “saved” and “assured” of the reward which is heaven. This is when the “decision” is made to “accept Jesus as your personal savior”—your salvation is irrevocable, you will be “always saved.”
Explain the CONTRADICTION of St. Paul in Philippians 2:12 “... with fear and trembling work out your salvation.” It seems St Paul is saying salvation is not that easy as the altar call states. So by whose authority does it say you are saved?
Isn’t this “adding” to the Scrptures. I can’t find this verse or verses implying this “salvation.” Where is it?
There are about 25,000 Protestant denominations, sects, splintered groups, etc., and more are being added each day, but this “born again” mantra is the main dish served. This is what attracts folks to this new religion—salvation guaranteed.
What did Our Lord say about the FEW that are saved? It is a CONTRADICTION of “added” Protestant doctrine.
Luke 13: “[23] And a certain man said to him: Lord, are they few that are saved? But he said to them: [24] Strive to enter by the narrow gate; for many, I say to you, shall seek to enter, and shall not be able.”
Luke 13: “[3] No, I say to you: but unless you shall do penance, you shall all likewise perish.”
That is Our Lord’s words, not my ipse dixit.
Matthew 7
“[13] Enter ye in at the narrow gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way that leadeth to destruction, and many there are who go in thereat. [14] How narrow is the gate, and strait is the way that leadeth to life: and few there are that find it! [15] Beware of false prophets, who come to you in the clothing of sheep, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.”
The Bible or the Church? As explained previously, the Canon of the Holy Scriptures was not codified until 382 AD, or so. So for over 300 years there was no Bible. St. Thomas the Apostle went to Asia without the “Bible” to preach the word of Christ. So did St. James who went to Spain. People heard the word and believed and were baptized. St. Paul wrote: 2 Thess 2 “[14] Therefore, brethren, stand fast; and hold the traditions which you have learned, whether by word, or by our epistle.”
(the unwritten traditions are no less to be received than their epistles.) This is another CONTRADICTION of sola scriptura—Bible only.
There was no Bible until Gutenberg’s invention of the printing press and the first book he printed was St. Jerome’s Vulgate. So please explain to me how all those people who heard the word but have not read it, were SAVED?
The Church is the pillar and foundation of the Truth. There was a Church before there was a Bible. Keep that in mind. This Church was born on Pentecost, 50 days after the Resurrection, 10 days after Jesus ascended to Heaven. He laid ground on her in Matthew 16:18 on the rock (Kephas) of Peter. Guided and inspired by the Holy Ghost, she sstill stands today and will weather all heresies and attackes on her and sahe will not be destroyed because she is a divine institution.
You afre right when Jesus said, “Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not apss away.” And He also said, “behold I am with you all days, even to the consummation of the world.”
Thus Cradle Catholic, don’t you think that the Protestant doctrines of salvation should be REJECTED since they are non-scriptural and non-biblical and accept what the Cathololic Church has taught always and everywhere (universality = catholicity?
Cradle Catholic—it seems we are going around in circles. It is not an argument unless one has proof or backup for one’s claims. Vincent has them, but it leads me to believe you are not reading the detailed Catholic replies he presents. Instead you have fully accepted the Protestant stance—not Catholic teaching. This is why I have become impatient in this discussion. It is frustrating to have a discussion when one of the parties ignores the rebuttals. One last thought, today most former Protestants have “read” their way into the Church. They have read the Church Fathers and examined the Roman Catholic Church’s history. I apologize for uncharitable responses, but please try to open your mind. Faith is a gift, but we should first seek the Truth to obtain that gift.
Vincent, I have to say once again—you have done an excellent job of explaining Catholic teaching—with quotes and background. We hear it from the pulpit at Mass on Sunday too. A blind man could see it, but sometimes people with eyes, like those Pharasees—refuse to use their sight. Christ stood before them, performend the miracles and they would not budge an inch. Perhaps this is a losing battle, for I see little headway being made. The Bible alone remains an authority—according to any Protestant.
Vincent-
Wow. You wrote a lot. It’s hard for me to comment on so much. The only thing that comes to mind right now is a verse from the Old Testament, and repeated in the New Testament: “These people honor Me with their lips, but their hearts are far from Me.”
God sees the heart. So whether Catholic or non-Catholic, God sees our HEART. That is THE most important. It is Jesus as our saviour, and we are Baptized in His Name, the Father’s Name and the Holy Spirit’s Name. Then we are sealed as His, and forever. Therein lies the security.
As for St. Peter’s role as leader: Why was it St. Paul’s opinion that prevailed in the Council of Jerusalem (in Acts of the Apostles) and not Peters, if Peter’s role was key?
Why did Peter call himself just another elder, and why was it the Church in Jerusalem, with James the Just as Bishop, that was the FIRST church?
It was James the Just that spoke for the whole group, after the first Council in Jerusalem.
And as for so many non-Catholic denominations: How come there are so many different Catholic denominations all in agreement with Rome? Is that not a “Cafeteria Catholic” form of religion too? Why isn’t it just the ROMAN rite, with Peter as it’s first Pope, that is the ONLY accepted Catholic rite?
Like if a man is raised Roman Catholic and he wants to be a priest, but he also wants to be married, he’s compelled to leave the Roman rite for an Eastern Catholic rite, so he can marry and still be in ordained ministry.
So which is “better”, or “a superior state”? The Roman rite Catholics or the Eastern rite Catholics? I’ve never understood that.
I have a friend that’s Syrian Catholic. They are in 100% communion with Rome, but a lot is different.
Cradle Catholic,
(difficult to believe) rather than you contributing to the conversion of your Protestant friend, he has converted you. Everything you write reflects this. You have thrown out your catechism and anything Catholic while clinging to a King James version of the Bible. This must really make your life simple. Is it possible you have thrown out all reason too? How obstinate is the defense of Protestant ideas rather than Catholic teaching. In our catechism class last week we reviewed The six sins against the Holy Ghost. One is “resisting the known truth”. That means if someone knows the catholic church is the true church founded by Christ and does not enter it, he has committed this sin. does that apply to those that have traded in their Catholic Faith also? Or would that come under apostasy? You cannot tell us that God only sees only “the heart”. He gave us a challenge to come after Him, to follow him, to take up our cross. When one rejects Purgatory and all other dogmas, they are simplyY soothing themselves with Protestant ideas. I have quoted Cardinal John Newman who said 150 years ago that so many cherish a cheerful religion that is bright, sunny and joyous. A shallow, hollow religion, one that avoids the stern and painful. Is that what you are looking for? The Protestants church is your answer. Cardinal Newman was a convert from that type of religion, once he found the truth in the holy, Roman Catholic Church. Obviously what you want to exist for you does, Purgatory not being in the equation.
Cradle Catholic, I am a cradle Catholic myself, so we should be in good company. :-)
>>>> Wow. You wrote a lot. It’s hard for me to comment on so much. The only thing that comes to mind right now is a verse from the Old
Testament, and repeated in the New Testament: “These people honor Me with their lips, but their hearts are far from Me.” <<<<
That’s a very good quote and relevant to the discussion. Who are these people? “By their fruits you shall know them.”
>>>> God sees the heart. So whether Catholic or non-Catholic, God sees our HEART. That is THE most important. It is Jesus as our saviour, and
we are Baptized in His Name, the Father’s Name and the Holy Spirit’s Name. Then we are sealed as His, and forever. Therein lies the
security.<<<<
The “security” lies in *perseverance.* This is what many miss when they think they are sealed in the grace of Christ in this life and thus assured of the reward. Wrong. It is non-biblical. Nobody knows that he is saved until the last moment, when the devil is at hand ready to snatch your soul.
Matthew 24:13 “But he that shall persevere to the end, he shall be saved”—doesn’t matter whether this will happen in one’s private death or in the abomination of desolation. Always be prepared and work our your salvation with fear and trembling. Seek the assistance and supplication of the Blessed Virgin, she is perhaps more concerned about your salvation than you are.
>>>> As for St. Peter’s role as leader: Why was it St. Paul’s opinion that prevailed in the Council of Jerusalem (in Acts of the Apostles) and not Peters, if Peter’s role was key? <<<<
You mean Galatians 2:11. This was a disciplinary issue (about the uncircumscised) and not doctrinal. The pope is NOT infallible in all matters but ONLY in regard to faith and morals and above that when he speaks ex cathedra (from the Chair). The charism of infallibility is protected by the Holy Ghost and the pope cannot err.
>>>> Why did Peter call himself just another elder, and why was it the Church in Jerusalem, with James the Just as Bishop, that was the FIRST
church? It was James the Just that spoke for the whole group, after the first Council in Jerusalem. <<<<<
Humility, in imitation of Christ. Protestants like to take issue on Peter’s preeminence and find ways to downgrade him. It doesn’t work that way citing one isolated verse. One of the titles of the pope besides “Bishop of Rome,” “Vicar of Jesus Christ,” et al. is “Servant of the Servants of God.”
>>>> And as for so many non-Catholic denominations: How come there are so many different Catholic denominations all in agreement with Rome? Is that not a “Cafeteria Catholic” form of religion too? Why isn’t it just the ROMAN rite, with Peter as it’s first Pope, that is the ONLY accepted
Catholic rite? <<<<
The Catholic Church is NOT a denomination and cannot be lumped with other non-Catholic faith communities. It is One in Unity (no divisions). The
Catholic Church is universal. As there were other Churches in Christendom (Antioch, Constantinople, Jerusalem, Alexandria, Rome), each
developed its own traditions and rites. Doctrine however was always the same and if there was a difference, a Council would be convoked (by the
pope) to settle it.
>>>> Like if a man is raised Roman Catholic and he wants to be a priest, but he also wants to be married, he’s compelled to leave the Roman rite
for an Eastern Catholic rite, so he can marry and still be in ordained ministry. <<<<
Not so. Changing of rites is prohibitted.
>>>> So which is “better”, or “a superior state”? The Roman rite Catholics or the Eastern rite Catholics? I’ve never understood that. <<<<
They are equal: the Western and the Eastern Church. The Pope is the head of all the Catholics, whether Latin (Rome), Chaldean (Iraq),
Antiochian (Syria), Alexandrian (Egypt), Byzantine, etc. Each church is distinguished by it’s own Rite (liturgy) and tradition and have their own Code of Canon Law.
>>>> I have a friend that’s Syrian Catholic. They are in 100% communion with Rome, but a lot is different. <<<<
The beauty of it.
I think we have digressed from the topic which is about Purgatory. Those who deny and reject the existence of Purgatory will not make it non-
existent and they will live to see their error. Purgatory is a wayside “station” for souls who are not perfect enough to be admitted before the presence of God. Forget this nonsense about being covered (or sealed) by Jesus that the Father doesn’t see our faults. That is taking away one attribute that God possesess: All-knowing. As He is All-Holy, anything defiled (tainted) cannot be admitted in His Presence. Therefore some purgation (purging) is necessary. As it was in the Old Dispensation (Old Testament), where those who were righteous were detained before Christ took them to heaven, so also in the New Dispensation, where souls not completely purified must await their turn to be cleansed. This is scriptural. I quoted on this and showed examples of the existence of Purgatory. If you have relatives and friends who have passed away, you are compelled by an obligation of charity and justice to pray for them. These imprisoned souls will be grateful to you and when they are released, ingratitude is UNKNOWN to them and they will in turn pray for your way to salvation. Do not listen to those who in their error deny true doctrine because they have been kept in the dark and deride what the Church teaches. Christ confounds His enemies. He will deal with them in His own time.
Patt-
My friend that is Syrian Catholic is in a denomination in UNION with the Roman Catholic church. She is not “Protestant”. In some ways, her church is more Catholic than the American Catholic church is today. She has “old country” rituals in her church, like those of Pre-Vatican II. her Bible is in Arabic, and she and I can study together, me with a Catholic Bible, perfectly.
There are around 23 different kinds of “catholic” churches, all in union with the Vatican. We can watch the newest union for ourselves, with the conservative Anglicans coming over too, in Europe and in the USA.
I know a very, very, very Catholic and elderly woman that has a formerly Anglican priest in her own Catholic parish. She says all the parishioners love him.
Bottom line: Jesus’ real prayer was for Christian UNITY and in matters of doctrine that is handed down to us in the Deposit of Faith. That is what we are seeing, in the case of the Anglicans, right now.
One last post perhaps. Cradle Catholic mentions “unity” and why this may never come to fruition. The protestations still hound the body of Christ and the Catholic faith, assailled at every opportune moment. The denials and rejections of Catholic teaching keep coming up (Purgatory of recent memory), when these have been settled a long time ago, but it seems they are brought back constantly because Protestants have nothing better to do that pick a bone with Catholics. There was another recent siege on Mary, nothing unusual in that Protestant front. Now there is a biblical passage that would cause Protestants to be in any way concerned with these prophetical words of Our Lady: “Because he hath regarded the humility of his handmaid; for behold from henceforth all generations shall call me blessed.” —Luke 1:48 These words are the honor which Catholics from all ages have given Mary.
As I referred to earlier, there are basically only two religions in the world: the one established by Christ for the salvation of mankind; the other raised by Satan for the ruination and damnation of mankind. It is one or the other. If you don’t follow the Faith brought by Christ for your salvation, then you are following the one that leads to perdition. It doesn’t take much to grasp this.
Thus, we can say without equivocation that the Jesus Christ that Caholics believe in, and follow, is not the same Jesus Christ that Protestant do. Cradle Catholic cited Matthew 15:8 “This people honoureth me with their lips: but their heart is far from me.”
The Truth will set you free. [John 8:32]
Our imprisonment by sin remains so until we see and understand the Truth. Are Protestants and those in other faiths and religions, and particularly Catholics who are ignorant and clueless of their religion, really set free while they continue in their error? Let’s what these errors are.
“Preach the word: be instant in season, out of season: reprove, entreat, rebuke in all patience and doctrine. For there shall be a time, when they will not endure sound doctrine; but, according to their own desires, they
will heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears: And will indeed turn away their hearing from the truth, but will be turned unto fables. [2 Timothy 4]
So therefore the Jesus Christ that Protestants and others base their belief in is NOT the same Jesus Christ that Catholics place their faith in.
* Rejection of John 16:18
“And I say to thee: That thou art Peter; and upon this rock I will build my church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.”
What’s so difficult to understand this TRUTH, this infallible statement of Christ? Salvation is through the Church of Christ and by no other, which is precisely the reason Christ established her. “...the house of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and ground of the truth.” [1 Tim 3:15]
* How can the Church established by Christ disappear from the face of the earth in the 16th Century (as claimed by those who established their own churches) when He gave His guarantee that it will be here forever?
The following are empty words for the false followers of Christ, or what?
“The gates of Hell shall not prevail against her.”
“...behold I am with you all days, even to the consummation of the world.”
* Denial of the infallible and inerrant words of Christ.
“[T]he truths revealed by Jesus Christ are unalterable; that ‘Heaven and earth shall pass away, but His words shall never pass away;’ [Luke 21:33] and that, therefore, to corrupt these sacred words, though but in one single article, would be ’ . . perverting the Gospel of Christ,’ [Gal. 1: 7], a sin so grievous that the Holy Ghost, by His mouth, pronounces a curse upon anyone, though an angel from Heaven who shall dare to be guilty of it.”
“O Timothy, keep that which is committed to thy trust, avoiding the profane novelties of words, and oppositions of knowledge falsely so called.” [l. Tim. vi. 20.]
The world was to be saved by the preaching of the Cross, and by the Eucharist, and not by human wisdom or eloquence
The false Gospel of salvation:
* Sola Fide. By Faith “alone” you are saved.
A “personal relationship” with Jesus is all that is required for salvation.
* Once saved, always saved.
Salvation is “once and for all.” It can never be lost; all sin has been forgiven; one can no longer commit sin. Really? Absurd. Illogical.
Please see: http://www.alcazar.net/adversus_haereses.html
Silence is golden and there is a Purgatory.
I am a Roman Catholic not an American Catholic and I am ending this debate.
Vincent, I hope by your implication you are not saying all Protestants are under rule by Satan and are going to hell because they are not Catholic? I sure hope not. If this is what you are saying then you must be aware that your opinion is opposite than that of my parish Pastor and Pope Benedict. My wife is Baptist.
“Vincent, I hope by your implication you are not saying all Protestants are under rule by Satan and are going to hell because they are not Catholic? I sure hope not. If this is what you are saying then you must be aware that your opinion is opposite than that of my parish Pastor and Pope Benedict. My wife is Baptist.”
MGary, not all Protestants will be damned, as not all pagans (non-Christians) will suffer perdition either. In the same light, not ALL Catholics will be saved; for that matter. Catholics will have a more difficult time in getting to heaven in comparison to those who are not Catholic. It is obvious that Catholics are held more accountable because it is to them that the Faith has been entrusted and they should know what the Faith teaches.
God in His mercy will save those whom He pleases to save.
For those who have not been preached the Gospel and have not heard about Jesus Christ, salvation is not denied for they are “invincibly” ignorant. “There are ... those who are struggling with invincible ignorance about our most holy religion. Sincerely observing the natural law and its precepts inscribed by God on all hearts and ready to obey God, they live honest lives and are able to attain eternal life by the efficacious virtue of divine light and grace. Because God knows, searches and clearly understands the minds, hearts, thoughts, and nature of all, his supreme kindness and clemency do not permit anyone at all who is not guilty of deliberate sin to suffer eternal punishments.” Encyclical On Promotion of False Doctrines (Quanto Conficiamur Moerore) by Pope Pius IX, 1863). In our present time, with the modernization of things, it is hardly possible there can exist certain demographics where there are still people whom civilization has not touched. But only God knows.
Protestants however cannot claim to be invincibly ignorant if and when they are condemned on their judgment day, although they may be possibly “vincibly” ignorant, especialjy those who have never been exposed to other faiths or know that there is a True faith and are convinced that their religion is the true one (again so long as they are “not guilty of deliberate serious or mortal sin” —transgressing the 10 commandments, etc).
“Pastors” of non-Catholic faith communities (these institutions cannot be called “churches”) will perhaps have a more difficult time with salvation for the reason that they should know better - having studied the Bible and have on hand all the Church document since Day One—they have no excuse. Further, because they have in their watch souls seeking salvation offer them false teachings and giving them false hopes (“you are now saved”) which is non salvific. This is what I implied when I said, Catholics and Protestants do not follow and worship the Jesus Christ who came to die for the redemption of all of us.
Pope Benedict XVI has commented and written about the gravely deficiency of non Catholic religions in his encyclical, Dominus Iesus. I quote:
“[Par 22] With the coming of the Saviour Jesus Christ, God has willed that the Church founded by him be the instrument for the salvation of all humanity (cf. Acts 17:30-31). This truth of faith does not lessen the sincere respect which the Church has for the religions of the world, but at the same time, it rules out, in a radical way, that mentality of indifferentism “characterized by a religious relativism which leads to the belief that ‘one religion is as good as another’”. If it is true that the followers of other religions can receive divine grace, it is also certain that objectively speaking they are in a gravely deficient situation in comparison with those who, in the Church, have the fullness of the means of salvation.”
Has your Pastor read this encyclical—as well as Pope Piüs XII’s encyclical, “Mystici Corporis Christi.” The maxim, Extra ecclesiam nulla salus (There is no salvation outside the Church) still holds. This pronouncement has been made since Apostloic times and reiterated many times by the Popes in the Ecumenical Councils. It is harsh but it is through Charity that it is made known.
I will pray for your wife’s conversion.
I wish to make a correction on my last post.
“This is what I implied when I said, Catholics and Protestants do not follow and worship the Jesus Christ who came to die for the redemption of all of us.”
Should read: “Catholics and Protestants do not follow and worship the SAME Jesus Christ ... ” that is, the Jesus Christ who established His Church on the Rock of Peter accordng to Matthew 16:18 is not the Jesus Christ followed and worshiped by Protestants. For then there would be no divisions, rebellions, protestations, etc. The followers of Jesus—Christians—would be one.
So Vincent, do you think our Church should still be selling indulgences & offering Masses for dead loved ones, at a price, both money-makers to pay for building more cathedrals?
Protestants said no to that. Are you saying those are good things, even good Traditions, with a Capital “T”? Are the Protestants NOT accepting Jesus, such as you wrote above, because they said NO to that behavior?
In Israel now, the Catholic church has taken over holy places, and are making money off of them - selling tickets to the faithful that want to visit. Is that good?
For that matter, Vincent, St. Peter Damian wrote his ‘Book of Gomorrah’, exposing and condemning clergy sex abuse issues such as we face today. Do you think he should have remained quiet back then - his pope ignored him anyway. Should we all just accept clerical sex abuse as “Tradition” too? It’s gone on long enough.
Is anyone “Protesting” anything that’s wrong in the Catholic church, not worshipping Jesus, as you wrote? Please explain?
Vincent—cc is still trying to goad you with false comments. I doubt the remarks even deserve a
reply.. because they come from one who seems to hate the church. Catholics have practically been driven out of the Holy Land, and they are being made martyrs in every Islamic country. Catholics cannot even build a Church in a Muslim city, or wear a crucifix around their necks. Didn’t Islamic fanatics recently enter a Catholic Church and slaughter men, women, children and priests? By the way Vincent, when have you heard of an indulgence being sold lately? That is news to me, made up to be confrontational, I assume.
Cradle Cathollc, I am taking all of this as a provocation and find your queries to be not sincere at all. After all that has been said and done in this forum, you persist in showing your bad will intention. First, please change your appellation to somethig else besides “cradle catholic” as you are not doing justice nor charity to the name.
Quote: Is anyone “Protesting” anything that’s wrong in the Catholic church, not worshipping Jesus, as you wrote? Please explain?
YES, you are. Everything in this post of yours is a protest of Catholic teaching. Did you know that if the Church didn’t exist there would be no
protestants? These protestations are the pablum on which Protestants feed on to keep their movement alive.
For the last time, I will humor you with replies.
1. “Selling indulgences.” You and your ilk are so narrow-minded that you don’t have a more valid point to attack the church. Indulgences were never sold, per se. This issue is over with and taken cared of at the Counter-Reformation. The heretics have been anathematized. Why keep beating on a dead horse? Another bad will intention.
2. Mass “stipends” are voluntary. No Catholic is compelled to give a stipend to have a Mass said. However, the amount is a pittance and it will never be enougn to build a cathedral. This stipend is for the support of the priest who will say the Mass. It is a sort of extra income for the priest. Do you give to your protestant church when they pass the collection plate? Why? What’s the money going to be used for? Does your “pastor” live in a quasi-palace or mansion? I know many “pastors” who do.
3. The Catholic Church has NOT taken over the holy places because these were the Church’s properties to begin with. Quit showing your ignorance. But I will not qualify your statement with a reply. You don’t know what you’re talking about.
4. Have you considered sexual abuse by protestant pastors and lay people, especially in the schools? These are all hushed by the media but you’ll be surprised by the numbers. If you know Church history (which I suspect you are poorly deficient in), the Church has been under siege since the first heretic, Simon Magus, showed up. Show me a time when the Church was truly at peace. Satan never sleeps. The Church is divine and cannot defect—we have Christ’s word for it— but it is administered by humans who fall into error and sin. Don’t blame Christ who is the head and founder of the Catholic Church. Blame the weak humans who run it.
5. Do you and your Protestant friend have anymore anti-Catholic agenda to throw my way? Just tuck it away because I am done stooping myself
down your schismatic and heretical level, since I can see that you are not going the way of the true Faith.
Ut in omnibus glorificetur Deus.
Cradle Cathollc, I am taking all of this as a provocation and find your queries to be not sincere at all. After all that has been said and done in this forum, you are now showing your bad will intention. First, please change your appellation to somethig else besides “cradle catholic” as you are not doing justice nor charity to the name. You say “our Church” yet you attack her. Not “your” Church, if you keep dissenting.
Quote: Is anyone “Protesting” anything that’s wrong in the Catholic church, not worshipping Jesus, as you wrote? Please explain?
YES, you are. Everything in this post of yours is a protest of Catholic teaching. Did you know that if the Church didn’t exist there would be no protestants? This protestations are the pablum on which Protestants feed on to keep their movement alive.
For the last time, I will humor you with replies.
1. “Selling indulgences.” You and your ilk are so narrow-minded that you don’t have a more valid point to attack the church. Indulgences were never sold, per se. This issue is over with and taken cared of at the Counter-Reformation. The heretics have been anathematized. Why keep beating on a dead horse?
2. Mass “stipends” are voluntary. No Catholic is compelled to give a stipend to have a Mass said. However, the amount is a pittance and it will never be enougn to build a cathedral. This stipend is for the support of the priest who will say the Mass. It is a sort of extra income for the priest. Do you give to your protestant church when they pass the collection plate? Why? What’s the money going to be used for? Does your pastor live in a quasi-palace or mansion? I know many “pastors” who do.
3. The Catholic Church has NOT taken over the holy places because these were the Church’s properties to begin with. Quit showing your ignorance. But I will not qualify your statement with a reply. You don’t know what you’re talking about.
4. Have you considered sexual abuse by protestant pastors and lay people, especially in the schools? These are all hushed by the media but you’ll be surprised by the numbers. If you know Church history (which I suspect you are poorly deficient in), the Church has been under siege since the first heretic, Simon Magus, showed up. Show me a time when the Church was truly at peace. Satan never sleeps. The Church is divine and cannot defect—we have Christ’s word for it— but it is administered by humans who fall into error and sin. Don’t blame Christ who is the head and founder of the Catholic Church. Blame the weak humans who run it.
5. Do you and your Protestant friend have anymore anti-Catholic agenda to throw my way? Just tuck it away because I am done stooping myself down your schismatic and heretical level, since I can see that you are not going the way of the true Faith.
AMEN!!!!!
Patt—I needed to reply to CC’s latest baiting post. I am not going to “humor” him anymore. I sppreciste much your comments. God bless.
Ut in omnibus glorificetur Deus (That in all things God be glorified—St. Benedict)
Vincent, I stated above my wife is Baptist. She and I also know sexual abuse has occurred in Protestant churches as well. Fair minded people know sexual abuse by clergy is not the exclusive domain of Catholicism. The only reason Catholic sexual abuse has been at the forefront for the last ten years is because the cover up in the Boston diocese was akin to Wategate. Cardinal Law was a poster child for how NOT to handle a problem. As for Protestants, I have met my wife’s Pastor on several occasions. I believe him to be a man of integrity who preaches the Gospel and is dedicated to Christ Jesus. He does not live in any quasi-palacial mansion (as you state). His home is quite modest and lower middle income for our area. He rents this home and does not own it. You say “I know many pastors do.” The few pastors you know of who live lavishly —are by way of the media who often “live” to expose the worst in people —Catholic priests and Protestant Ministers. Aren’t you guilty of painting the honest, hardworking Protestant ministers all with the same brush that the media often portray honest, hardworking Catholic priests? I believe the great majority of Catholic priests and Protestant Ministers are men of integrity. Serious men of God be they Catholic or Protestant do not enter the service of ministry seeking riches. The great majority of Protestant ministers and Catholic priests toil long hours and in anonymity serving the Lord.
MGary, I think the sexual abuse by priests in our times cannot compare to the sexual abuse that besieged the Church in the 11th Century (circa
1050 AD). There was not only the four forms of sodomy being practiced, but rampant simony as well. That’s my thought anyway because it was so vile that it cried out to heaven for vengance, that God raised two holy men to fight these crimes against the faith and morality: Pope Leo IX and St. Peter Damian. I don’t see a champion for the Church anywhere today. God must have thrown up His Hands and will send the punishment due.
MGary, we cannot equate and put in the same level a Catholic priest and a Protestant minister, for the reason that the Catholic priest has a
mandate from Christ to preach the Gospel while the Protestant minister does not have that commission. Futhermore, the Protestant minister does
not preach the true word of the Gospel according to the Magisterium (the teaching office of the Church), but interprets it the way he “understands” it, essentially distorting the Word, consequently leading souls to perdition. For one, he denies that Baptism (John 3:5) is regeneration, man being translated from Original Sin to being heir to the kingdom of God, he interprets being “born again” as accepting Jesus as a “personal savior” and is therefore saved. His church began 1500 years after the true Church was born on Pentecost.
We should question the Protestant minister’s mission: WHO SENT YOU?—A Challenge to Protestant Pastors, and others who have their own
interpretation of the Scriptures. This is a legitimate question, which was asked of Jesus by the Jews:
“And when he entered the temple, the chief priests and the elders of the people came up to him as he was teaching, and said, ‘BY WHAT AUTHORITY ARE YOU DOING THESE THINGS, AND WHO GAVE YOU THIS AUTHORITY?’” (Matthew. 21:23) Of course we know who sent Jesus and gave Him that authority. Can your Protestant pastor say that Jesus through Apostolic succession gave him that commission?
What is in the mind of the Protestant pastor to think he can go and start a church without Divine Mandate? When Jesus established His Church in Matthew 16:18, He didn’t say I will build my Churches, and that in the 16th Century and thereafter there will be other churches all over the world for the salvation of souls. Ask this Baptist pastor if he can answer that.
Of course majority of Protestant pastors are honest, hardworking, men of integrity, but they are serving the wrong Lord, who sent a specific group of men to preach the Gospel and ordain their successors. We have seen many of these pastors see the Light and convert. Men who have brought up with a hatred of the Catholic Church intent in destroying her, turned 180 degrees and saw the Truth of the Faith (Gerry Matatics, Scott Hahn, Alex Jones who brought half of his comgregation to the Church, et al.). The Protestant pastor tolling long hours in the vineyard of the Lord is simply wasting his time because it will not bear fruit.
I pray that your wife will see the Truth of the Catholic Faith and embrace it. God bless.
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