This situation reminds me of a time when doctors were not allowed to look at a woman’s body, even when she was in labor.  Modesty is important, but so is being practical.  We fly a good bit, and every time I fly something happens that makes me feel like I have left our free country and entered a communist one.  When it’s over, I breathe a sigh of relief that I do live in this country and can, for example, go to the bathroom whenever I want.  BUT I am CHOOSING to enter this “communist” environment, and I do appreciate some measure of safety controls, even if they are mostly ineffective, because we are completely vulnerable at 20,000 ft and at the mercy of every person around us.  I would rather be made to feel uncomfortable for a few moments than worry about what some crazy was hiding in his shoe, her bra, or their child’s diaper bag. I’m sure I’m alone on this, but there’s my opinion.

No, but I’m terrified of flying so I do it as little as possible.  Also, I’m always wearing pants - I could see where somebody wearing a skirt would feel more invaded because she’d feel like there was less between her and the guy’s hand.

I think I’ve only flown 4 times since 9/11 - and two of those times involved adopting a child, which come to think of it gives me the perfect analogy.  Flying to me is just like the 4 times I went through real labor - I refuse to think about it before hand, everything about it stinks while it’s going on, and I forget all about it once it’s done.

Hah - two comments.  Two comparisons to labor.  I think I see a theme developing!

Before taking our trip to Florida, I was really worried about going through security - not just for me but for the kids.
At the airport, as you can imagine, it was a bit hectic getting everyone through, keeping track of shoes and backpacks as we went through the metal detector. I was the last one through.  An agent said, “You’ve been randomly selected for additional screening.”  My heart jumped up into my throat.  I didn’t know what was going to take place, but I had heard horror stories and didn’t want any of it.  And my kids were standing right there!! What were they going to witness??
As it turned out, she just waved some kind of chemical-detecting wand over the palms of my hands.  That was it.  And that was the only additional screening for any of us for the rest of the trip.  Phew!
I felt a little silly for being so worried, but I was also annoyed that I had cause to worry in the first place.

I agree mostly with Elizabeth’s comments, however, I wish to add that in Israel they allow selective searches based on “who might be a terrorist” rather than every single passenger. This system has worked for years there and is FAR BETTER than our current safety system which humiliates and imposes upon American citizens. I think the US needs to work with Israel regarding this issue and learn from their procedures.

Put the words “security theatre” into Google and enjoy a long read. This from someone who flies frequently and is about to take my 2 special needs kids to CA from NJ in August. The Israelis have a system that really works and it relies on talking to people. That’s it. Security personnel talk to everyone who comes in and observe their reactions. Much more useful than full body scanners. But that would be hard to do in the US. Throwing money and technology at the problem is easy, so that’s what we do. This is one of those times when I feel like we are advertising to the world just how stupid we are.

I don’t see what the big deal is. I’ve been searched a few times and pulled aside because I was wearing a long dress. It’s a little weird to get a pat-down, but it’s not the end of the world. And I’m one of those people who HATE being stared at and HATE being touched by strangers or even having strangers stand too close to me. I don’t think being searched is a violation. What’s more troublesome is that these searches don’t actually seem to be effective. I would happily submit if all the security measures worked but as it is they’re just wasting everyone’s time, and that’s annoying.

Yup—it’s definitely changed our travel decisions.  Granted, flying with a bunch of kids is expensive and enough of a headache even without the invasive, public searches.  We’ve made several 12-plus-hour drives, with young children on board, and are considering a second 24-hour trip in the future.  Sure, it would be faster and “easier” to fly, but the multitude of inconveniences is nothing when compared to the idea that my 9 year old daughter could be legally groped in front of a crowd of people.  I think the Israelis must be shaking their heads at us.  They have a very effective system of airport screening, and it’s based on targeting the people who are actually committing acts of violence—they don’t waste time giving Grandma a pat-down and x-raying 30-something lactating women surrounded by their brood of offspring.  Now, if only there was a reasonable way to visit our Alaska friends by car.

I don’t fly anywhere I can drive. But, the invasive pat-downs and X-rays were just the final straw of an experience that has purposely been made dreadful by the airline industry. You mentioned many of the unpleasantries. Beyond those are the tiny seats that keep getting tinier with no leg room so they can stuff more people in. When I flew coach in the 80s in was still a pleasant experience. Now, we’re just crammed in like cattle. I fly, on average, once a year. That’s more than enough.

I was told by a TSA person that they DO always check women in long skirts.  This is because I was such a woman last summer - thinking that the long, flowy skirt would be oh-so-comfortable for traveling.  Nope - they WILL pull you out of line and search you.  So, wear pants.

You CAN request a female agent and they have to comply.  Doesn’t make it great, but better than being groped by a strange man.

I haven’t flown in 6 years in spite of the fact that I live 6000 miles away from family in the US.  Initially the reasons were cost, being pregnant, etc., but now with all of this invasive checking I would have to think hard about taking my kids on a flight to the US - even if I had just won the lottery.  Modesty is definitely and issue.  I cannot imagine subjecting my 13 year old daughter to that kind of invasive search. 

Beyond that, though, my 8-year-old son is autistic, and I seriously wonder how he would handle that whole situation.  He would not be thrilled at all with being touched by a stranger - especially a man!  He would also surely freak out if he had to be separated from me at all.  I wonder what kind of provisions there are for people with special needs, if any.

It’s just kind of funny that the whole world has been telling offended Catholics to “lighten up” or “don’t be a prude” when we complain about the indecent attack on our senses whenever we leave the house. Well, folks, now you know how it feels!

I get what you’re trying to say, but its not a perfect analogy. Half naked Brad Pitt on the cover of US Weekly isn’t reaching out from the cover to feel you up. (Although, you know, now that I think about that…) Kidding, kidding…

As a Catholic who values modesty, though, what are your thoughts? Have you changed your travel habits because of the search policies? Do we have some specific moral duty to complain or to refuse to comply? What do you think?

I think if you have to travel, you have to travel. Vacation, biz trips, its just the price of entry. Granted, a stupid and ineffective one, but whatever. It’s more annoying and offensive to me that I have to hoard stupid little travel sized conditioners in a clear ziplock bag then it is to get groped for a second by a bored and hating-their-job TSA employee.

About 12 years ago, my new husband and I traveled to Ireland.  The security on Aer Lingus was way more stringent than anything we had encountered; they pulled me aside to search through all my carryon luggage, and I got the third degree.  Yes, I got patted down by a female security agent. 

Did I mind? No. Because I knew they were doing what they were doing because of terrorist activity in the North.  I didn’t resent it, this was what they had to do to keep their country safe. 

My husband took a domestic flight just last month, and didn’t mention any pat downs or full body scans, or anything.  I’ve been pulled aside for random bag checks, and never once have I resented it. I’ve thanked the security agents for doing their job.

The reality is that we now live in a world where our airplanes have been used as weapons against us.  If you want to fly, you have to accept there will be security measures.  Given a choice between a full pat down or a body scan, and having my plane hijacked by a terrorist….I’ll take the former, thank you. Modesty be darned.

That said, we often prefer to drive long distances, if we have the time, rather than fly—because of delays at airports, we’ve found that sometimes we’d have gotten there faster, even with frequent stops, if we drove.  So we drive.

The only thing that has changed our travel habits is the cost.  I totally agree that the measures employed by TSA seem laughable, though I’m willing to go through whatever security measures are there because, well, it’s the law and it doesn’t bother me enough to stop flying.  Besides, I have a brother who is an airline pilot, so every time I think about these things, I think about the safety of my brother, too.  In all honesty, I think target profiling of searches would be far more effective (who *cares* if it’s “discriminatory?” Isn’t that kinda the point???) at actually preventing terrorist activities.  Plus, I find it laughable that security measures are far more thorough at smaller or regional airports than at the major ones.  (Honestly, wouldn’t it be more likely that a terrorist would go through a large airport than a small one?)  That, and I appreciate that the ground and flight crews have the authority to kick people off the plane who appear intoxicated (which can be quite deadly and is probably more common, anyway).
As an aside, I have been “selected for additional screening,” as has my DH, on a few different occasions (both with and without kids, never was I wearing a dress) and I thought the TSA agents were quite decent.  I had a female do the screening each time (didn’t even have to request it), they did it in a cordoned-off area that was semi-private, and there was no groping whatsoever.  I appreciate the difficult job they have, I wouldn’t want to do it, but I have a bit of disdain for the people who actually make the stupid rules in the first place.

I fly a lot.  Not as much as I did once upon a time, but at least several times a year, with my home base one of the busiest airports in the world.  It is a ‘security theater’ and really silly.  If you want to read the funniest thing on this, check out Calvin Trillin on “I predicted the underwear bomber.”  http://www.newyorker.com/talk/2010/01/18/100118ta_talk_trillin

So, I find it keeps my composure to remember that article.  But, as stupid as it all is, it is not that invasive, if you play their game.  Dress practically.  Know what you are packing and take out your requisite one quart bag.  Be polite and smile at them and look them in the eye.  It might be close to useless in terms of keeping us safe, but it is momentary and manageable.

This is not important to me in the slightest.  If someone wants to grope me in public after having groped everyone else for the purposes of safety, then I have no problem at all.  To think that the government is doing this for the purpose of humiliating females is a stretch.  It is all in how it is done.  There are female suicide bombers….and females who strap cocaine to their inner thighs.  These are sad facts. 

I don’t like having to type in codes to make sure I am not some spamming service either, but I understand why I have to do it.  I think typing in codes is much more of an annoyance than being searched.

I can imagine it is embarrassing for some women….so I understand how they feel, but I do think there are good reasons for it.

My uncle, who’s a priest who wear a cassock on nearly all occasions, went through the body scanner and then also was pulled aside for a pat down too. He flies a lot to Missions and he said every time he just opts for the pat down because it’s less of a hassle.
Marjorie Campbell actually wrote an article for CatholiCity called “My Security Suit”. Her suggestions are very interesting. Here’s the url:
http://www.catholicity.com/commentary/campbell/08685.html

Meh, I don’t think its that big of a deal. I guess labor and birth has changed it all for me though. Nothing compares to the lack of privacy in that situation.

But really, you ask for a female agent, get it over with, go on with your life. Not the end of the world.

I am patted down every time I fly because I have had a knee and a hip replaced.  I always tell them I am going to buzz, I buzz, and I am patted down.  To make it easier, I wear bras without wires… more like a tank top so they don’t have to grope there.  Elastic waist pants would prevent scrutiny in the waist and below area.  As a woman, I am always patted down by women, and they have always been respectful.  It is not a big deal.  I am 55 years old and conservative.  I’d rather be safe when I travel.  I agree that we should profile, but if that isn’t going to happen, then people have to comply with a little intrusion in their lives.

I fly all the time with and without children and depart from Newark Airport in NJ.  I have never been patted down.  My 9 year old daughter recently had her no tangle spray confiscated from her.  I agree with the above commenter that if you look normal, act nicely and follow the silly rules, you’ll be fine.

Nothing against the searches in principle.  But why are they always searching my wife?  I could be wearing a turban and camos and not get a second glance, much less special attention.  That offends me.

I’m one of Delta’s favorite customers.  Since my home airport is small and cozy, we don’t have one of the imaging machines yet.  I’ve had to go through that perhaps 3 times in big airports and don’t like it but just brace myself.  I’ve had perhaps a dozen pat-downs in the years I’ve been traveling heavily.  It really isn’t that bad and I’ve never seen a male TSA officer patting down a woman.  They *always* call for a woman to pat down another woman.

Those of us whose vocations or work require that we travel heavily on the national and international basis don’t have a choice.  And it is for our security and the happiness and well-being of many who don’t fly but love those who must.  All of us are effected, whether we have to spend our days in airport lounges or not.

I am not flying anymore because the searches are a violation of our 4th Amendment rights.  The TSA does not have probable cause to search me or anyone else as a potential terrorist.  I am highly offended that they are searching children and the handicapped elderly.  I am especially disturbed by the searching of children and how that violates everything parents have taught them about inappropriate touching and strangers.  Many people think that it’s not “a big deal” since “I have nothing to hide.”  That may be true, but the fact of the matter is that illegal searches only open up the door to continuing violations.  I encourage folks to read Daniel J. Solove’s article, “Why Privacy Matters, Even if You have ‘Nothing to Hide’” http://chronicle.com/article/Why-Privacy-Matters-Even-if/127461/ in the Chronicle of Higher Education.  We need to stop this now before it gets worse.

I avoid flying as much as I can, but I live across the country from my family and neither of us have enough time or money to drive across the country. I also occasionally have required trips for work.

Every time I have been required to fly since the “increased security measures”, I pray that I can get by without any problem. I am one of those women that wear skirts all the time, and for a long time I have gotten searched every time I go through TSA security. Since they have become more intrusive with their “pat-downs”, I decided to bring a pair of pants to change into before going through and change out of after going through. It is a pain, but so far I have not gotten patted down.

I hope I am never confronted with the choice, but I have been trying to decide whether I would rather go through the body scanners or be intrusively patted down. I don’t know which is more of an offence to modesty…

You reader must not be married with kids. I forget what it’s like NOT to be groped every day.

We won’t fly if we can help it because I’d likely go nuts if my daughters were groped. My parents are opting to drive from FL to VA because my mother has knee replacements & my dad is sure he’d lose it if someone tried to touch his wife. So we’ve driven to SD a few times, will be driving to FL in the Fall, etc. I think Janine and I are visiting the same friend. Maybe we should get a charter plane and all descend on them together!

I think that it is interesting that the State of Israel doesn’t have all these touchy-feelly searches at the point of departure that we have here in Canada/America.. recently on The Current on CBC there was a discussion with Anna-Maria Tremonte and the chief of Security at the Tel Aviv International.. they have successful screened and triaged passengers and baggage, and have the highest Security in the World. Women are respected as well as Men. They found that the X-ray searches of the person never really worked they tried it and found that people were able to smuggle n’importe quoi onto the Plane! He also mentioned that it is considered the busiest Airport in the world.. busier than JFK or LAX. Also the Israelis feel that it offends Hospitality to make people wait unnecessarily.. they were rated with an over 95% success rate in averting and preventing terrorist/smuggler groups. You just don’t get past the Ticket wicket if you are guilty! Also the pay scale for employees is on par with that of NA! And they hire a sufficient number of employees ! Go figure! I think that it is only a matter of time before something scandalous hits the street about the Security! It has happened here in Canada in our Detention Units where we the Tax Payer fund the “boys” to have their fun at the expense of citizens who have had one too many and are less than responsible. Taken off the street because of perceived public drunkenness. One turned out to be a person suffering from a bipolar disorder and who was unable to connect with reality (She killed herself) and another who was leaving a club and walking home (she lived not too far) and was picked up for being intoxicated in public. The Guards got provocative and when she resisted she was strip search on camera and assaulted! I agree with you that we live in a hyper-sexulaized society, everything is up for grabs (pun intended) and it only takes one to bring down a good work place. We live in a society of fear. The searches and the invasion of a person’s modesty keeps us fearful and looking over our shoulder. We are Red to Green on alerts. We are told every gruesome detail of the fomenting speeches of the Al Qaeda and Taliban, their videos go viral and we get searched! Blessed John Paul cried out “Fear not” and brought down an Empire! Christian, know thy Dignity!

LC:  I don’t think probable cause is necessary for every search, only those done pursuant to Warrant.  The TSA seaches need only be “reasonable.”  (And whether they are reasonable or not is above my pay grade.)

Christine, I do believe we are.  ;)  I have 2 other families in AK that I know too, so the chartered plane would probably be worth it!  I was thinking further about this whole thing, and wondering what the average young arab man thinks about being passed over in security while the 90 yo woman with a walker gets the whole 9 yards behind him.  I’ll tell you this, if I fit the terrorist profile I would EXPECT to be thoroughly checked out every time I got on a plane.  I would be very unhappy indeed if I wasn’t.  My brother-in-law has the same name as a young man who was an actual terrorist, and there are restrictions on how he can buy tickets, and he is always pulled aside for special checks, EVEN THOUGH THE TERRORIST WHO SHARES HIS NAME IS IN PRISON.  There’s a young boy with the same name too, who goes through the same rigamarole, and there is no way for them to be removed from the list, or marked as safe, etc.  I’m all for public safety, but I think we waste a lot of time and energy and money doing things that don’t really contribute to our safety at all, and are, at best, laughable.

I’d just like to say I think modesty and responding to oppression are definitely Catholic questions.  To be clear, I think all questions which are not inherently immoral are Catholic questions. 

God is big, he is omnipresent and he made everything; in addition, Christ tells us to pray constantly.  From these two premises we can fit in all the questions I mentioned.  Catholics always have something to do for God in any situation.  When non-Catholics care about Catholic questions, like modesty, this is just evidence that Catholicism embraces what is fundamentally human and good, not that there are non-Catholic things which are human and good.

Seemed worth pointing out for our thinking’s sake.

crazylikeknoxes: Thanks for the clarification!  I definitely do not see the TSA searches to be “reasonable.”  It seems that the smarter route would be to make it more difficult for these individuals to get *into* the country.

Yes, I also refuse to fly.  I will not give up my right to decide who touches me where or who sees me naked, and that is not a right I give to strangers, blue-shirts or not.  Regarding skirts, here is a quote from a frequent flyer about the process; 

From Reddit.com:“If you’re wearing a skirt, you WILL be selected for the AIT, no options. It’s considered “bulky” clothing and therefore suspicious. Yeah yeah, pile of bullshit. I fly for work and I get this !@#$% every week.
If you opt out, you get the fun of a pat down that includes genital contact from in front and behind. You get a rubdown of your breasts, ass, and up each thigh until “resistance is met”. If your skirt is loose enough, they will wrap it around your thigh in order to perform the search. If it’s too tight, you will be taken to a private room and asked to put on a paper skirt that will allow them to perform the pat down.
If it’s a dress, they can’t do the waistband swipe obviously, but if it’s a skirt, they will ask you to lift your shirt in front and back, and run their hands between your skirt and underwear.
The entire thing is incredibly invasive, insulting, and the main reason I’ve requested to never be staffed on a US project again. It’s designed to degrade and humiliate to force you to acquiesce to the pornoscope and it makes me so angry I could spit.”“

I’m with 1amWendy on this.

My Catholic sister-in-law who was wearing a veil and long skirts got “randomly” selected for extra screening - both flying out and flying back again. She opted for the pat-down instead of the body scan, and the fact that a woman performed it did not make her feel ok about it.

I think the fact that we are, as a country, putting up with this, is a very bad sign.

The idea of having my body scanned under my clothes and someone looking at that in another room is beyond disturbing to me; and I don’t understand why other people, especially women, don’t find this a really grotesque practice. If I had wanted to be photographed naked, I would have done that and gotten paid for it. It is a gross violation of our human dignity to have to subject ourselves to that. I fly only when I have to (mainly for work) and hate it each time because it causes me so much anxiety, embarrassment and just makes me feel icky. I don’t want anyone to die either on a plane - HOWEVER - we all know there are better ways to do this, what they’re doing is ineffective anyway, and the way they’re doing it now is unnecessary as well as extremely wasteful of our tax money. If I could pay $50 and get an “all clear” ID to go through security, I would do it. Heck, mark my passport with it and I’ll use that for ID from now on when I fly. Just leave me the heck alone. I’ll still walk through your metal detector, but keep your darn hands off of me. When I flew in April for work, I was told to go through the scanner, and I “opted out”—they were actually going to do the pat down in full view of hundreds of people streaming by in Terminal C in Dallas. I requested a private room, which they gave me, and that required a 2nd female agent. It took maybe 10 minutes, and was far less “grope like” then what I’ve been hearing on TV. If we all did that, the man power required would be unsustainable, and those creepy machines would be gone in a week. Then they’d have to really get serious about this issue and find a real solution.

Just curious, how do you all feel about a gynecological exam?  Or a breast exam?

Thanks to Cafe Press and way too much time to spend surfing this week, this how I am planning to dress myself and my family for our trip from NJ to CA in August:
- myself, in the shirt that says “I am raising a child with Autism. What’s your superpower?”
- my husband, in the shirt that says “Autism Sucks”
- my son, “Autism Airlines: Expecting Turbulence on Most Flights! Our flights might be rough, but they’re necessary.”
- and, my daughter, “Sensory Processing Disorder just means I learn a little different. My cuteness is NOT affected!”
I dare them to harass me!

4 juicy airfares and soon to be a fifth with our Japanese exchange student, and all happily withheld from the airlines owing exclusively to dopey TSA rules of engagement.  When a miscreant wants to mess with the system, they will.  I understand the new wave of terrorist explosions will come from bombs implanted in breasts or other bodily parts.  Now, dear TSA, how will these very intimate biological searches be done - on the spot explorative surgical procedures?
I’m OK with rolling back to the use of logic and allowing modesty some breathing room.  Everyone’s aware of everyone else on a flight, so if someone starts to act weird, s/he can be neutralized by fellow travelers.  It’s not like the bombs spontaneously ignite, certain procedures need to be undertaken to make the ignition occur.  How about less magical thinking (if “x” procedure is in place, I can check out mentally and be OK) and more common sense from all of us?

momofthree,
.
The difference between gynecological exams/breast exams and the TSA searches:
.
1) They’re effective.
2) There’s no less-invasive alternative that can accomplish what they do.
3) They’re *always* private.
4) They’re often done by someone you have a relationship of trust with, someone you’ve chosen to pick out, instead of by a complete stranger.
5) Getting them is a personal choice, not a requirement where permission to go about a common & often necessary activity is hinging on whether you comply.

I am the person who sent this email to Simcha.  I am indeed married, and have four children—all boys, who are extremely grabby.  And, uh, it’s a whole different matter to imagine a stranger doing it.  Especially if that stranger is legally allowed to run her hands along my genitals and breasts! 

I have previously decided not to fly for that reason and ALSO the fact that I try very hard not to cooperate in the exploitation or oppression of other people.  My husband and I have had no need to fly for business, and no money to consider a flying vacation. 

But right now, things have changed slightly.  I am trying to decide if the possibility of a few days alone with my husband—with whom I have literally NEVER been alone overnight except for our honeymoon 6 years ago, and also with whom I have had a total of about 10 or 12 real dates—is worth it to fly. 

I can’t imagine allowing my children to be subjected to (what I consider) an egregious violation of our rights as citizens (unjustified intrusion into our personal space…I am wondering, though, if I ought to consider submitting to it for the sake of my marriage which, after 6 years of lost jobs, dashed hopes of further education, and growing the family from one child to four, does desperately need some help right now.

I appreciate hearing from the people who put up with the screenings, or think it is no big deal…I would also like to hear from folks who avoid or outright refuse to fly:  What, if anything, would cause you to think differently?  Would helping your marriage get some alone time be a good enough reason to participate in something you thought was disrespectful or even humiliating, or immoral in the way that you think the “security theater” is?

Oh, and Thank You Anna!  I was just about to reply to momofthree with essentially the same things!

I do fly often, with my four children. I am wondering if the stories out there are a little blown out of porportion. First of all, regarding “being groped.” I just don’t see it. I have always been searched by a female, as has my daughter, and always behind a screen. The officer is very businesslike, swift, explains what she is doing as she is doing it, and is not very invasive at all, IMO. I find it more invasive to have a dress or a pair of pants pinned up by a seamstress than the TSA search.
As far as children being traumatized, again, I don’t see it. Yes we teach our children about innapropriate touching, but that does not mean we teach them that they will never be touched. What if they had an accident, would we let an EMT touch them, or give them mouth to mouth? Doctors touch them, my DD has to see a chiropractor, is this considered “groping?” Her Ballet teacher corrects her positions, by hand. I think it is far more important to teach kids to discern appropriate vs. inappropriate touching. A uniformed TSA officer, working within the rules of her job in the interest of public safety would be what I consider appropriate. As far as the legality of the searches, the line officer is not the one to take this up with, call your Congressman and get the laws changed through our Democractic process.
Sorry for the rant, but it seems most of the comments about infringing on our rights and “groping” come from people who start out by admitting they don’t fly. We haven’t experienced any of the above.

Hey, a little porn audition for any American who wants to fly? That’s what the Empire is for!

Tho it would in consequence appear Mr. Bin Laden did not die in vain.

@Corita:  I outright refuse to fly, for ANY reason.  My mother lives 3,000 miles away and I have told everyone in my family that I need 3 days if I need to get there.  I wear an artificial leg and there is no way I can fly without being groped - every time, no exception.  In my opinion is is grossly humiliating on top of being downright stupid… why anyone believes my breasts and buttocks need to be groped for the mere reason I have metal between my knee and ankle is beyond me.  I feel so strongly about this that I walked away from a flight home once, for work… lost that job eventually but I sleep well at night and feel I can keep my dignity.  If I needed a marriage-rescue, I would go somewhere romantic that I could get to either by train or car before I would succumb to being molested.  The experiences I remember were so emotional for me that I was a nervous wreck and couldn’t sleep either the night before (in anticipated dread) or the night after (in rage).

Corita,
/
I would say pray about it and ask God what he wants you to do. Look to see which decision gives you more peace. If you DO decide to take the flight, pray that you won’t be selected for screening.

Danielle, I have seen videos describing the process, and others who have gone through it and described the intimacy of the touching.  I last flew the January after the Sept. 11th tragedy and had to go through an extended search as I was pregnant (bulky) and also flying on a one-way ticket.  But it wasn’t anything like the guidelines today, and that includes the most recent ones from November which allow the extensive genital touching.

But I have also noticed that there is a wide variance in the reports of those who have gone through the procedures recently…it must vary from airport to airport?

Corita,
Since Nov., we have flown to and from Newark, Nj to Ft. lauderdale, San Francisco, Washington Dulles and Chicago. I think TSA officers are far more “professional” in so far as the training is more extensive since the months following 9/11. My impression is they follow a script, designed to distract you and they are very mechanical in their movements (thus my concern over the term grope.” I also truly believe if a person approaches them with a belligerent attitude, or the expectation that things will not go well, that colors the experience. I can only imagine how the TSA officer feels when confronted with such a person, I know it would make me nervous and probably more clumsy in my movements. If it were just me, I would go through the scan, but I do have real concerns about the relatively new radiation exposure for my children over their lifetimes, so I decline the scan so that whatever happens to my kids, happens to me as far as searches go. We are not always searched, and there doesn’t seem to be a way to predict it.
That said, even when we are searched, it never takes more than a minute. I think it is all dependent on your mindset. I don’t particularly like medical exams either, but I do them for my health. we like to travel. we like for our kids to see their family, so we fly. The screening is not by far the most difficult part of our trips, I’d rather go through a search than change a baby in an airplane restroom any day!

Interesting, because I find gynecological exams about 2000x worse than airport exams!  THen again, I have never been taken into a private room.

Where is some resource to learn more about the superior Israeli system?  Seems like a no-brainer.  Why don’t we adopt their methods?

according to a couple of articles, one in USA Today, Israel sees 11 million air passengers a year, they arrive up to 4 hours before a flight to get through their interrogations, and it costs more than $50 per passenger for the screening process. the US sees over 700 million air passengers, and spends about $7 per passenger. I don’t think a system of our size could ever be served by Israel’s system without making air travel prohibitively expensive and time consuming.

Hi, Simcha - I’m with you.  I won’t fly.  And for, peculiarly, almost the identical reason.  (Maybe all girls from St. Joseph’s in Claremont go through this?) Christmas flight - the toddler screaming, the infant and I covered with an inhuman amount of bright yellow poop, flight delays, down-right nasty flght attendants…I vow, NEVER AGAIN!

I was told by a TSA agent that people wearing skirts are always pulled aside because a skirt is “not form-fitting”. 

I had to have a pat-down once because I was wearing a skirt.  It was quick and non-invasive, but I imagine it all depends on the airport.

Over-hearing some friends discussing this very issue, someone said, “Look, I understand you need to search me for security reasons, but why is there slow jazz playing in the background?”

I won’t fly and furthermore I am not having kids as a result of this. My husband and I have a wonderful marriage but I can non bear bringing a child into this type of police state only so I can teach them that no stranger can touch them except for a TSA agent. There is something wrong with that and as “One nation under God” I’m terribly disappointed in our country for allowing this to happen.

I’m not catholic and I’m not modest, but I refuse to accept the choice of gate rape or cancer scanner as a condition of travel. So I no longer fly.
BTW - They could blow up a plane every single day and you’d still be more likely to die of cancer.

I am stunned by the number of people who support the treasonous behavior of TSA. Their children are being groped by child molesters yet still some defend this criminal conduct of this agency. Of course, DHS pays employees to post pro-DHS/TSA propaganda in article responses to try to convince the public that sexual assault by minimum wage government workers is somehow normal.

If anyone is so afraid to fly that that they would consent to having their family strip-searched and their privates groped by a stranger in a public place then don’t fly. They are obviously ill equipped for the risk that life entails and should stay home to hide beneath their bed. The rest of us should be subjected to reasonable and respectful security, that doesn’t require sexual assault, We recognize that there are no guarantees in life and certainly none that the incompetents at TSA can provide.

TSA has a disproportionately high number of criminals and allow these people to grope your spouse and children right in front of you. This is also the low lives they hire to open your checked luggage without you present.

There have been 25 screeners arrested in five months for job related crimes, including drug trafficking, theft, raping a 14 year old and two weeks ago for distributing child porn. Three were arrested just this week for theft from baggage, carrying a loaded gun into the airport and stowing away on a flight to the Dominican Republic.

Twenty five criminal acts, eighteen security failures, 4,000+ groping complaints and dozens of lawsuits, all in five months, but TSA hasn’t stopped one incident in nine years. Fortunately some people and lawmakers are beginning to realize that they are being misled by TSA’s paranoia.

TSA is violating the Constitution on a daily basis, not improving security whatsoever and yet uninformed sheep and cowards among us endorse this abuse. TSA poses a more imminent threat to American liberties than Al Qaeda.

I refuse to fly because my body is my own.  Last year I flew fifty times, but I have rearranged my life to drive, take trains, or just plain not go when flying would be required.  I decide with whom to engage in sexual contact, and for whom to pose naked, and it certainly isn’t some stranger in a government uniform who is barking orders at me.  These monsters have no right to take naked pictures of children, to expose us needlessly to damaging radiation, to fondle our private parts and shove their hands down our pants.  I’m so outraged about this that I’m having trouble sleeping at night, thinking about all the innocent women and children being abused. Many women have reported their actual experiences and reactions to this kind of unwelcome sexual conduct at TSA checkpoints, and I’ve read dozens of accounts that included tears, nightmares, days and nights of disturbing and intrusive thoughts about being violated in this way.  The TSA’s abusive gauntlet of sexual humiliation has nothing whatsoever to do with security; it’s about government power over your body.  Patdowns are deliberately offensive, because their purpose is to force people into the boondoggle scanners to make money for Michael Chertoff (former homeland security official) who is now shilling for the radiation machines.  John Pistole (TSA administrator) won’t even tell you whether the patdown for children under 12 involves genital contact or not - but you can take a look at the youtube video of the six-year-old girl who was molested in New Orleans and see it for yourself.  Boycott flying, and join the fight against the pointless sexual assaults at airports.  We can stop them, and we will.

I’ve read quite a bit about the issue and equate this to going to the doctor. I’m uncomfortable when my doctor has to look “down there” for something, but I realize she has to in order to do her job (my wife doesn’t like it, either). Security screening isn’t perfect (after all, no human endeavor ever is) but it’s purpose is to protect all passengers. Travel by air is a privilege, it is not a right. (When I was in the Navy I was selected for random strip searches a couple of times and am grateful that TSA doesn’t go to that extreme.)

To sparks1093: what I have a difficult time understanding with your view is the cost-benefit of the procedure.  When I go to the doctor I choose the doctor, I know he/she is medically qualified, and I have decided that a condition that I have - or a condition that I believe is likely enough for me that I decide I want to be screened for - merits the intrusion.  Cogent points:  I choose.  Medically qualified.  Likely risk.  None of those apply to the TSA.  From government sources, during 2005-2006 the TSA failed 70% of the tests performed to catch “contraband.”  In the 19 million+ domestic flights that happened during those years there were no incidents.  That tells me that the risk against which the TSA is “protecting” us is negligible.  For me, as a woman, that equates to me asking a doctor for a prostate exam. And since I have a medical assistive device, if I fly I am subjected to search 100% of the time. Degrading, humiliating, totally unnecessary, unconstitutional, immoral and personally offensive.

The TSA sub-contracts security at most smaller airports, and the qualifications are still quite flexible.  Until passengers complain loudly, individual guards can do anything they wish.  Passengers, after all, are terrified of losing their flights due to protesting some twiddlepoop or lecherous guard. 

Notice that NONE of this is effective.  It is based on the idea that gross, invasive, intimidation will make potential terrorists scared of the almighty TSA.  That doesn’t work.  By definition, a terrorist is insane, and willing to detonate a suicide bomb anywhere.  The shoe bomber and the diaper bomber were also stupid. 

Nor does the Israeli script work.  The wife of a rabbi was arrested for answering questions too fast; she went to Israel 4 times a year, and the script never varied.  A stewardess in Athens tiredly used a similar script, and never even noted the answers.  Mindless drivel.

Yesterday a “guard” at a branch of the New York Public Library not only wanted to poke at my yarn-filled tote-bag, but insisted I open every zippered section of my shoulder-bag.  Being a dictatorial moron, of course, he missed the 9” scissors, the small pocket knife, and the knitting needles.  Museum guards are the same.  And TSA is simply the worst collection of petty tyrants.

“WAH WAH WAH WAH.” That’s all I hear when people talk about the TSA. You know what’s going to happen so be prepared. It’s like people have no other responsibilities in their lives so they somehow have so much time to complain and nag about things that, in the big picture of life, don’t matter. I’d hate to see what it’s like when some of you are bearing crosses.

@Ikedi… how do you draw the line between injustice and bearing crosses?  Do you stand aside and say WAH WAH WAH?

I think we need to find more effective ways to get the TSA to change their policies.

Any suggestions?

@Henry, there are a handful of us starting to organize to sit down with elected officials and review an informational packet we are putting together.  I’d direct you to a website but we just met yesterday to assign that task to one of us.  My job is to develop alliances with other organizations.  If you are interested in assisting us send me a message on Facebook - same name (1amWendy).

I think the TSA policy is despicable and a violation of rights.
For women who have to fly, I recommend wearing a “travel” burka.
(Maybe eve men should do the same!)
Since the only sin for TSA seems to be “profiling” you might not get touch.
But, in case you do, I think you should learn a few choice Arabic expressions to say to the government fondler.

Ikedi & friends: You all have the makings of excellent subjects, & folks here at the TSA appreciate your willingness - may we believe eagerness? - to have your wives & children fondled when the Empire commands it. We appreciate your recognizing it’s all a matter of security, or at least that pretense, which we are aware is a central concern for folks of your historically famous disposition. Most of all, however, we commend your laudable attacks against the impertinent view that such matters as dignity or freedom, not to say the 4th Amendment, may be interpreted in any way your rulers find uncongenial.
On that note, we can at least be glad that, thanks no little to your efforts, the idea of ‘manhood’, not to say its practice, has all but disappeared, & we remain hopeful that with your diligence it will soon be forgotten altogether. So a well-merited thanks to all of you.
Most sincerely - Your tingle-fingered friends at the Tsa

I’m not one who will gladly sacrifice freedom for safety. “Give me liberty or give me death!”
So if I’m in a prison cell, I’m now safe?

Wow. After reading all of these comments I think I might bring milk and cookies to the TSA headquarters to thank them for having to deal with all the crazy that’s out there. Sad that it’s coming from the catholic world.

Wow. After reading all of these comments I think I might bring milk and cookies to the TSA headquarters to thank them for having to deal with all the crazy that’s out there. Sad that it’s coming from the catholic world. So much for faith and REASON.

Late to the party, but here it goes.
We fly once a year (this year we had three kids under four and I was pregnant) to see my in-laws on the other side of the country.  Our experience this January was this: our home airport doesn’t have scanners, so that’s not an option.  I was wearing jeans and my husband and I were clearly doing our utmost to keep our kids calm and get through the checkpoint as expeditiously as possible.  And we did just that.  The TSA agents were not only professional, but friendly, to all of us.
We go from a small city to a much larger one, and our experience in the big city was the same… no scans (even though they had one, you could chose to get in the scanner line, which was, for obvious reasons, shorter) or you could get in the other line.  We went through the other line. No groping, no confrontations. The TSA people were at least as sympathetic and helpful as the flight attendants, who are paid to be helpful. 
I understand the frustration for those who have metal in their bodies that set off the metal detector and I sympathize.  I think steps should be taken (maybe a stamp on thier ID containing a doctor’s authorization would be in order) to facilitate those passengers. 
But for those of us who don’t have those issues, I really don’t understand the fear mongering.

The violation of my personal space is not worth flying. I will not be treated like an animal by security, so I will not fly. Our “civilization” is in ultimate decline! The only questions are when will we hit the ground and how hard will be the impact? Bin Ladin has won!

TSA has the ‘right’ to probe wherever and whenever they wish..men, women, children. I cannot believe we Americans are just accepting this fact. What’s next? Football games, the New York subway,  a cruise, etc? A child being groped?..this is clearly a violation of our Christian beleifs, and our Constitutional Rights…

1amWendy: I am trying to find you on Facebook. I am very interested in your efforts to inform our legislators.

To the others who don’t have a problem with this: I think it is completely a matter of modesty. I have three young adult daughters and cannot agree that they have to be groped or seen nude by a stranger simply to get on an airplane. THIS IS NOT ANALOGOUS TO GOING TO A DOCTOR. There is no benefit to the passenger for this treatment. Need proof? There were no instances of terrorism that this type of “screening” would have prevented in the years from the attack on 9/11 until this was instituted. This is strictly a matter of money for the manufacturers of these machines and those who own the companies. I have no problem with capitalism but I do have a problem with not having a choice.

To those who think flying is a privilege which seems irrelevant to the argument (some have to fly for work, etc) just wait: the goal is to have these scanners at subways, train stations, malls etc. It has already happened.

We need to be informed, and this IS a matter of modesty that believing Catholics should be appalled over.

@Dianna… paste this into your browser:  http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100002138363206

Wendy

To ditto Danielle M’s post, my family has flown frequently to visit family for the past 7 years. We usually fly twice a year, with all the kids. In all of that time, we have NEVER been taken aside for a pat down. We walk through the screener, the guy smiles at us, we get our stuff and go fly to see family. Pretty harmless stuff. I also think it is telling that people that rant so much about this are the ones that have little to no experience flying.

Lauren,

Just because you have not been subjected to this does not mean it is not happening! Fine, so you fly twice a year. Others fly WEEKLY for jobs, such as my sister who was trying to get pregnant. Think about it: if you are sent through the nude scanners, that is radiation you are being subjected to—every time! For a round trip flight, that is a minimum of four exposures right there! What if you don’t know you are pregnant—would you be subjecting yourself to four x-rays a day? By the way, it has also been discovered that these machines may be giving off ten or more times as much radiation as first thought. Plus, the TSA agents are not trained like x-ray technicians in a medical setting have to be. This is just crazy!

Furthermore, my daughter had to fly for a job interview—she was not given a choice of whether to be scanned or not. Everyone was herded through that line, which, by the way, was technically against procedures in that the nude scans were NOT supposed to be primary screening mechanisms.

So, I am disappointed that faithful Catholics are not concerned about the health and well-being of their fellow citizens even if it is not affecting you personally at this time, because it will if this continues.

Finally, I repeat I cannot believe how others do not find this an issue concerning modesty! Have you not seen the you tube videos of excessive groping? Do you not know that some TSA agents have been convicted of sexual offenses, some against children? That they are not given background checks before being hired? That nude photos of people who have been scanned HAVE been released—one courthouse in Georgia had a “leak” of I think 10,000 photos? How are my fellow citizens so sanguine about their health (radiation), safety (ineffective, unproven procedures) and modesty (nude scans and groping)? I firmly believe our heroic saintly ancestors would not allow this. Can you imagine our Blessed Mother being subjected to nude scans or groping?

@Lauren, Danielle… you are lucky.  I totally understand why you might not realize this, but the vast majority of people that get checked get checked 100% of the time, and get checked because they have prosthetics (legs arms, breasts), ostomy bags, braces or wheelchairs or metal implants.  We are also overwhelmingly older, although all of the young men and women that have been disabled in the wars are also condemned to this treatment.  All the time. Every time.  After 3 dozen or so humiliating invasions of my body I finally quit -both the job that required travel, and air travel for any reason.  So while I understand that you were able to pass with no issues, I ask to you consider whether you feel it necessary to violate those of us with medical assistive devices (which are poorly understood by these not-medically-trained screeners)... all of the time, every time.  And this IS from someone that has traveled frequently… at least, until last year when the new-and-improved enhanced procedures went into effect.  I refuse to have my breasts inspected simply because there happens to be metal between my right knee and ankle.

Wendy,

Is it the Boycott Flying site?

I live in The Bahamas, a nation of many islands just south east of Florida.  I am Catholic, and dress more modestly than many of my Bahamian peers, but it hasn’t really been a concious moral decision.  I have family in the UK and Trinidad, and friends scattered throughout the world, most of whom live in the USA.  For those living in the West Indies, Miami International Airport is the major international hub.  And for those of us in The Bahamas, air travel is just about the only way to reach our destinations in anything approaching a timely manner.  I use that phrase because it is highly advisable to arrive at the airport in 3 or more hours in advance.  The check-in process is lengthy because many flights are overbooked (or so it seems!), most flights are scheduled around the same times, and there are no self check in kiosks here yet to my knowledge.  After checking in, there is the initial security screening process.  Then there is the US Immigration and Customs Pre-Clearance.  There also used to be an additional screening, but that seems to have been deemed unneccessary. And of course there are the ‘random checks’ of passengers while immediately waiting to board the plane.  (Don’t get me started on the whole drug-sniffing-dog aspect, we’ll be here forever!)
I have pleasant memories of traveling as a small child and teenager.  Trips to Florida, West Virginia, Washington state, or to the UK via Miami all went smoothly in dealing with security and airline employees as far as I can remember, lost luggage aside.  Back then, us picky eaters could even take homemade meals on planes complete with juice boxes!  Since September 11 2001, travel has become one of my least favorite things to do.  I was in Canada for my second year of college education at the time, and had booked a flight from London, Ontario to Cleaveland for the October break before the attacks.  I nearly didn’t visit my best friend, but plucked up the courage.  That was the year I realized that I had to change my standard travel attire.  So I stopped wearing difficult to remove shoes, and took off my belt and watch for the metal detectors.  But it still went off…so I wouldn’t wear any jewelery (apart from my navel ring which never comes off) or jeans when I traveled.  Still not enough to keep from being pulled aside for extra screening.  Eventually I realized I couldn’t wear an underwire bra for travel…but my more petite friends and family can!  Of course, more of them don’t also need glasses (and no, contact lenses are not an option.)  So I had already made the change to wearing wirefree bras, and clothing with as little metal as possible.  I was always ready at the security line: with my shoes off 3 people back, gadgets and loose clothing already in the bins, and eager to comply with requests to go through my carry on. I was even taking the restrictions of fluids in stride.  I like many others had submitted to having my fingerprints on file, accessed by God-only-knows-who, and wasting 8 hours in airports for trips (or longer if there were layovers!) with a minimum of moaning and complaining.  All because even though I firmly believed that the TSA staff in the US missed more items than similarly trained screeners elsewhere, I hoped it made traveling safer for everyone.
Then came the enhanced patdowns for everyone traveling in the US, Canada, the UK and/or headed there.  I held onto hope for so long that that they would eventually be phased out.  I eventually chose to travel to Orlando for a short trip, which passed without more than a ‘randomly selected’ enhanced pat down on the way back.  Not fun or welcome, but I had to go to work the next day, and missing my flight was so not an option.  The screener was female, and it was done in a few steps aside from the main line.  Thank God I was wearing jeans for a change.  With the installation of the backscatter bodyscanners, the intrusion of privacy seems impossible to avoid in the future.  Now I can’t claim to have traveled very recently, but I did visit my sister in December 2010.  My parents and I traveled via MIA.  In mind of the uncoming trip I had planned my outfit carefully: denim leggings, a close fitting long sleeve shirt, the bulkiest heels of the trip, an oversize cardigan, wirefree sports bra, pashmina wrap, and no jewelery or hair accessories.  The only security incident was during security screening in Port Of Spain, Trinidad.  I was pulled aside for aditional explosives screening which I have experienced before, with the little pad that gets passed along your body and hands, then tested by a machine.  The real problem with this for me was that we were already made late by the sheer volume of travelers and as the plane was boarding I was worried I’d miss the flight.  The wait for a screener to do this, and then airline staff to walk me the 50 yards to the gate(because I ‘had to be escorted on the plane’, that is until she walked off when we got to the gate!) was irritating, but did not assault my privacy or dignity overmuch.  We were fortunate that there was no extra screening due in MIA.
All of this is to say, that at the ripe old age of 28, I have decided to restrict my travel as much as possible.  Not just because it’s expensive, not because I don’t want to see the world or visit family, but because I am no longer convinced it’s worth the hassle.  And I have no way of changing what is acceptable procedure in any of the airports, except possibly by avoiding travel.  Even more disturbing, is that soon this level of screening and invasion of privacy will be happening everywhere that large groups gather.  Bars and nightclubs, theme parks, concerts, bus and train stations, landmarks and national parks; in every country.  I am disappointed that as a species, humans are so set on impinging on or harming others.

@Dianna - that’s how the half dozen of us “met” (Boycott Flying).  We are developing a packet for legislators and are organizing to get people to sit down with their elected officials to get some sanity introduced to transportation security.  I have friended that site, so you can find me there.

Jenn,

Thanks for sharing your story; it illustrates the point that for people who frequently travel, and even those who don’t fly frequently, these procedures are a nightmare. Look at all the thought you have to put into what you will wear, carry, etc. It’s onerous! And like you said, for those who cavalierly say, “Don’t fly!” well, how does that work when you are a bridesmaid for a beloved family member whose wedding is six o’clock on a Friday and you work full-time in a city a 15 hour drive away? Flying is the only option to both be in the wedding and keep your job! Are we so insulated in our little worlds that we have no compassion for the burdens others like Wendy here had to bear? Again, for procedures and an agency that has a proven dismal track record! I can’t believe the dulling of the American spirit of liberty and the dulling of the Catholic conscience in regards to what has passed from being an major hassle and inconvenience (prior procedures) to an offense against modesty (a sin).

This is the very present next step…TSA at proms:  http://visiontoamerica.org/868/tsa-patdowns-at-prom/

I have NEVER experienced anything like what some people are describing.  I have flown several times out of the country, and all after 9/11.  I have been randomly selected and was patted down, and i don’t remember it scarring me in any way.  The TSA guards were very kind, it was done quickly, and that was that.  I didn’t feel “groped”.  In fact, it was more like they were touching me as little as possible. As if they were just waving their hands over areas were other people commonly hide things.  Soon, my fiance and I will be flying a lot more, because he works for the airlines and once we are married I can fly with him as family.  I’m not anticipating anything major happening but I will be ready to be scanned or patted-down.  I’ll never complain about people choosing not to fly though, because it makes the lines shorter ;)

@Kayla you are really fortunate. Wait until you get an aggressive pat down. I’m ex-military and I can’t even fly anymore because the thought of getting handled like that again makes me get anxiety attacks…gosh what if I was sexually abused…tough for me eh?

How one person feels compared to another is irrelevant in this discussion though. The fact is that we’re Americans and our Constitutional rights are being trampled on by un-elected officials (a la Napolitano &c.)

This from an at-the-time early 50’s year old female executive traveling on business: this is how bad it can get.  I lost my right leg at the knee when I was 4.  I [obviously] set off the alarm (even though I told them I would).  I was taken to the side of Concourse A at Detroit Metro by two women who erected 3 office partition panels around me (that had to be leaned together because they were wobbly) where I was asked to remove my pants.  I was wearing pantyhose, and they were wondering if I would need to remove those, too. There I was standing, pants down around my ankles, because there was metal between my knee and ankle.  That I had announced.  Please, before any of you condemn me for refusing the nightmare air travel and being vocal about my indignation, try walking a mile in my shoes.

@Saveourconstitution: I’m sorry if the TSA scenario does trigger that kind of reaction for you. I thought it would for me too, because I do experience panic attacks, and when I started flying was having them often, though they were not caused by something traumatic such as sexual abuse.  I can see how that would put someone off from flying though.  I agree that I am fortunate that I have not experienced the type of scenario described by some people.  I wish that no one had to experience such scenarios.

Also, @1amWendy, I hope that my post didn’t make you think that I was condemning you.  I meant my last sentence to mean that as far as choosing not to fly, and how to respond to it, that is each person’s choice.  Less people flying does mean shorter lines, which is why when we fly, we go out on days more people are less likely to, such as a Wednesday. I meant it to be tongue-in-cheek, but maybe it didn’t come off that way.  I’m new to commenting so I guess I have a little to learn about subtlety and humour on line.  Though perhaps this wasn’t the discussion for that.  I’m sorry if I offended you.

To all the people that say it is no big deal it’s about security, are dumb down. This is not about security it’s about having your human rights violated. They are thinking right now of putting TSA in shopping malls, hotels, grocery stores and other places. What people fail to understand is that when you give up you rights, you are setting the stage for more of your human rights to be violated. Soon you will have no FREEDOM and you will be living in a police state, just like it was during the Nazi times.

I don’t care if it’s a woman, or is only for a minute, or she’s doing her job, or it isn’t “technically groping”, or whatever… Absolutely no one can touch me ANYWHERE without me being a 100% percent OK wit it, period. The people saying “you know what you’re getting into so don’t whine” seem to be in line with the “don’t like abortions, don’t have one mentality”. The subject here is being forced by the government to relinquish all sense of modesty: that old-fashioned, makes life complicated, modesty.

I absolute refuse to let anyone do this to me - it is a complete violation of Christian modesty or any kind of modesty. I don’t normally fly, but I was considering starting to do so on home visits to save time. Not any more. I will only fly if I absolutely have to, if this is the result. Nor do I accept machines that make images of my naked body. If they change the machine to something less graphic, I’ll re-evaluate. The whole thing is nuts. They don’t even use these in Israel, where terrorism is common. We Americans are way over the top.

I would think that eventually airport security will have to progress to body cavity probing—first of randomely-selected passengers, then of everyone. It’s too easy to conceal contraband inside bodily cavities—and it’s also a common criminal practice, by the way. In other words, in order to be truly safe you’d need the type of screenings they do in jail and prison intake. I also expect it’s only a matter of time before pat-downs and metal detectors will be mandatory for anyone entering a public or commercial building. One day—not right away—perhaps in the distant future, we may have them on the street, too. Who knows? Maybe 50 or a hundred years from now, constant searches and security screenings will be a daily routine whenever you leave your house. I like to call it “agoraphobiocracy”—or in other words, a society whose driving obsession is its terror of open places and the overarching security measures it adopts to give itself the feeling of safe enclosure.

I’ve been re-reading 1984 and it’s depressing me even more to see where our society is going

I am not Catholic, but do think this is so wrong for so many reasons. I don;t want raduation frim a scanner - no amnt of raduation us safe. I will not fly.

I am a pilot and I used to love to fly but have not flown since this new search policy came out. Further, I refuse to allow my wife and children to be subjected to this type of exploitation. Could you imagine how much outrage there would be if any other industry treated their customers this way?

These TSA checks, as horribly inconvenient, nerve-rattling to some, a gross violation of one’s constitutional liberties, and an outrage against we hold true n’ dear as modest Christians and loyal Americans ... are nothing compared to the much larger costs and tradeoffs from doing relatively nothing. What if all of a sudden, these TSA checks and other forms of aggressive anti-terrorist “event” prevention are discontinued, and shortly thereafter some terrorist happens to cause a plane to crash, but not everybody is killed. Some of the survivors, who are seen walking away from the scene and presumed “unhurt.” Other survivors may wind up strapped into wheelchairs for the rest of their lives; others may lose a limb, an eye, etc. And of course, there are those who died on the spot, perhaps having suffered from searing burns from being showered with jet-fuel which ingulfed their bodies.
  The first victims, the seemingly “alright” are the hidden walking wounded with PTSD seeds deeply implanted in them ready to go off at any point in their future lives. In fact, all of the wounded survivors will have to deal with this likelihood, on top of their physical wounds.
  This kind of a debate reminds about all those arguments over mandatory seatbelt laws passed by states.
  We gave a choioce between our pride, our misunderstandings of what it means to be a truly free person, with all the harrumphing that goes along with it (usually provided by the libertarians)—or using the better judgment God gave us to swallow our pride and realize there are some things we just have to let go of if we want to get anywhere. People imprisoned in wheelchairs and burning skin, not to mention the dead, aren’t nearly as free to spout off on what they’d prefer given their druthers.
  I’ll bet most of the biggest loudmouths bellyaching about the scans and body searches are those who can stand to lose a lot of weight; but bellyaching about a system, however flawed for the moment, as any new system usually is, when it’s rolled out,
  When it comes to putting safety for the good of all, what’s a few inconveniences, and dings to individual pride, compared to the ultimate loss of all freedoms through severe injuries and death?
  Remember, the dead aren’t able to write letters to their local papers’ editorial pages beginning with “I’m outraged!” If one’s more outraged about the temporary suspension of liberties and privacy, then let him write the same letter and instead of getting it published for free on the op-ed pages; send it to the Obit pages when and where obits are published for our brave men and women in the Armed Forces are honored so the inconvenienced could have the freedom to vent their misplaced outrage.
  In the meantime, start shedding the weight and stop listening to all the shock jocks telling you how many of your rights are being stolen from under you. A brisk walk or workout will do more for anybody than five minutes of listening to those spinners of constitutional war stories and other half-truths.

Steven, you’re kidding right?! I served in this nation’s military. I’ve lost friends for our freedoms and to uphold and defend the Constitution… tell me what touching my genitals has to do with safety?

Being a firm believer that there are better ways of achieving security, and being a firm believer that the present method (TSA) is doing nothing but “show”, I would rather a plane go down (with me in it) than go through the molestation. I’m sick of being “trained” to do obey orders because it is for my own good.

Are you both willing to put your concerns over the safety of a hundred other passengers? BTW, SaveOurConstitution, I’m a military dependant and I’m quite familiar with the Service. Two of my brothers and a nephew have served in the Armed Forces and one of my sons is eager to enlist. Although I sincerely thank you for your service to this country, I cannot believe you or ohwisdom are going to be that self-centered!
  I’d hate like hell to think anybody in this great nation served so selfishness could reign supremeth! Maybe we should just be honest about the true nature of this nation as it stands now, especially in light of the Tea Party’s rise and its ramificatiosn on electoral politics ... and drop all pretenses of honoring God (“In God We Trust”) to “Mine, Baby, All Mine.”
  It means “where’s mine.”

I was originally going to use another latin phrase but wasn’t too sure if it was exact enough. Good heavens. More people would pay more attention to the ever slightest unintentional mistake in translation than the larger point I’m trying to make.
  Gotta stay one step ahead of our hyper constitutionalist Pharisees; even if their love for the Constitution exceeds that of their fellow man.

I can’t understand people actually using some vague threat of terrorism as an excuse to molest children. Worse is when so many in the public accept this. Or when so many gullible people actually believe that molesting children somehow lowers the risk of terrorism.

I think you missed the point. Do you really believe that these primitive means are actually providing national security?

Caro Steven:

If a tad obsequious, your faith in government is touching, but not wise. Since a terrorist could as easily create the horrors you describe by blowing himself while waiting on line - & allow us to hope an invitation to such is not the purpose of the porn auditions inasmuch as deference to government domination by such as yourself would only intensify - it is fair to assume these auditions have a less noble intention than the one to which your hope clings.
What’s the famous phrase, was it Franklin’s? Those who would sacrifice freedom for security deserve neither.

I’m not going to play so dumb as to believe that the TSA program is perfect or that it can’t be made less invasive. But I’m sure as hell less willing to trust the fate of innocent people to mere hopes that something won’t happen to them because the Libertarians, Constitutionalists and even the ACLU will have fits. Better fits than funerals. Think on that.
  Yep, I knew, just knew that Franklin quote would be used. Nice job of proof-texting, however. I’ll even give you the benefit of the doubt by agreeing with you about FDR’s internment of Japanese American citizens during WWII. Let’s go back further to the early weeks of the Civil War when Lincoln had the Union Army arrest the pro-secesh Maryland legislators who would’ve taken the state out of the Union, thus leaving Washington, DC completely surrounded in enemy territory. Even Stalin never got so much an advantage after WWII. Lincoln didn’t just have them arrested, he pulled their rights to Habeas Corpus. Damn right, too because they were indeed (legislative) threats to the Union. They could’ve rot in hell for all Lincoln cared (and myself as well, given the carnage that their fellow Secesh traitors caused.)
  Lincoln’s not the first president to have faced such a threat from legislators. Andrew Jackson had the same headache from the South Carolina Legislature and he put an end to it by threatening to hand ever legislator who voted for nullification.
  Jackson and Lincoln, were not saints. But they did have their stellar moments. Putting aside whatever constitutional and legislative niceties to save the Union, threatening to hang the SC nullifiers and MD’s secesh legislators shine brightly for this writer.
  Franklin’s warning was suitable for a different time; just as Jackson’s and Lincoln’s.

Steven, since yourposts show so little regard for freedom and liberty, I presume you would have us not come to your aid if your posts have offended a member of the government who would intend to lock you up as a threat?

Also, your post with the assertion that not engaging in these indecent acts upon the flying public would be equivalent to not doing anything or as stated in your last quote:  “mere hopes that something won’t happen” keep in mind that there are already bomb sniffer’s metal detectors, and a do not fly list. Further we have one great advantage now over the morning of 9/11: an aware public. If those same terrorists we to attempt the same today an alert flying public would stop the attack.

As to the safety vs freedom debate. On a day like today, when we honor those who gave all for freedom, how can you think that we do not value our freedom greatly over risk of danger.

Steven, don’t be such a coward, it’s very un-American.

My fiance and I recently cancelled our honeymoon plane tickets. We would have liked to take a vacation on the other coast, but at least I can rest assured that the only one to see or touch my body on my wedding night will be my husband. What is the world coming to when people will accept this kind of disgusting forced contact as a necessary measure ?

@Dave and Greg: what men you are posting on line your insinuations about my “little regard for freedom and liberty,” much less my personal courage and patriotism. I liked it better back in the old days when I could write an op-ed column, (in a local newspaper I was news editor of), criticizing the nuclear freeze and its powerfully placed academic and political supporters in a very liberal college town in the northeast; knowing full well the amount of catcalls of “warmonger” (for starters) I was bound to receive ... and did. When they sent in their letters of reply, not a single one was spiked. Apparently I was man enough to take it and print them. And yes, I’d even print what you two just posted from God knows where.
  Yeah, the good old days, sigh ... only a quarter century ago.
  Make a legitimate complaint against TSA to get these procedures changed. I’m right with you. But, lay off the the below the belt stuff of your own.

My family will not be flying till this changes.  If I have to travel for work, I’ll book the travel, but will not fly if selected, and will miss the trip, or have to take a bus or train home.

If the government wanted to provide an alternative to folks with a prosthetic or personal objections to the procedures, they could institute the Israeli process on an opt-in, pay the difference basis.  If I had to pay 50 bucks per family member to spend extra time on interviews etc., at least I have an option to fly.  As it is, we have to drive, and we just returned from a vacation where we drove 3 days each way.

Thanks to those working to put an end to this madness.