I wonder if she stopped to consider that the breakdown in the traditional family is a large factor in childhood poverty…single mothers (i.e. a non-traditional family) are FAR more likely to live in poverty than a married mother.

She also ignores the fact that having two bread winners doesn’t guarantee living at or above the poverty line. I’m an only child who had two working parents all her life, and for a while we lived below the poverty line.

I appreciate your willingness to read the Slate on our behalf.  I also want to know what the other side (the Dark Side) is thinking and writing about but don’t have the patience to do so.  They make me flip out and I don’t like my kids seeing Mommy melt down.

I’m trying to figure out some way of saying that you’re a genius and I love you without sounding creepy and weird.  Because I swear I’m not creepy.  Just weird.

And that woman drives me to the brink of fiery rage!

I love SAHM Answer #2!  Wasn’t her recent outburst toward Jennifer Fulwiler full of sarcastic anger that the Pope (and Catholicism in general) believe that women are too stupid to figure out that sex and babies go together???  HA!

I love how when we believe something contrary to a lib, we’re “stooopid, nyah-nyah poopie heads!” That’s just how they sound. Wow, all that education and ladder climbing really done ya proud, ladies. Raising a family is not for the faint of heart, mind and spirit.

I thought Marcotte’s brand of feminism was supposed to be about choice?  If the very ability to choose one’s station as a SAHM or a mom in the work force is ostenibly the highest good, why denigrate one choice over the other?

Also mad props to Pamela and Christina for pointing out the obvious fact that the breakdown of the family tends to lead to poverty and this world holds no guarantees that even 2 incomes equals financial stability.

I don’t know how Simcha can read that sh@t and remain calm.  I cannot stand liberal women’s or feminists’ diatribes because they are simply not insightful, original, or make any damn sense.  They are so bizarrely anti-man AND anti-woman.

“Empty feel-good words”?  You mean like “Amanda Marcotte’s Exploding Head”?

(Sorry, a bit cruel).

Come on now, Tim.  I am endlessly grateful to Amanda Marcotte for being so easy to smack around when I’m tired and don’t feel up to making a subtle argument against someone who actually thinks about stuff.  Besides, if I had the strength to edit out a really funny joke about her weird bangs, then surely you can refrain from wishing a gory death upon her.

@Simcha:  Yeah, you’re right.  I don’t want Ms. Marcotte or any bloggers on the internet to die.  I wouldn’t have wrote that if I could think of a bangs-joke instead.

Besides, I have it on good authority (i.e. cartoons) that a person can survive mild cases of head explosion.

I think a big part of the problem with this “study” is that it’s ridiculously vague. What exactly IS “the breakdown of the traditional family?” Should we shoot for a “traditional family” like the ones of the Biblical patriarchs, chock-full of multiple wives, slaves, and incest? Also, news flash - if you ask people if family breakdown, drug abuse, etc. are serious problems, they’re probably going to say yes.
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I’m a feminist, and it drives me bonkers when other feminists set up these black-and-white, either/or scenarios. Either you’re a fabulous, self-actualized career woman or you’re an oppressed, benighted hausfrau. To me, feminism is about giving women REAL choices in their lives. What good does it do if you liberate women from being forced into one mold, and then turn around and force them into another?

Poor Amanda. I wonder what happened in her childhood to spawn such hatred toward SAHMs?

You go, girl! I stay home because my children are autistic and frankly, no one would want to stay home with them or it would cost me more than I could make working to pay a therapist to stay home with them. And, besides, since I’ve been trained as a therapist to help them anyway, gosh, I am the best candidate to be home with them! Shocking, I know. This lady seems to be one of those people who needs to spend a week sleeping on my couch and learn what it means to really be at home with your kids. Now that’s education.

“I love my nouveau traditional stay-at-home life.  When I say that I want to stay at home with my kids, I mean that I want the best from the past and the best from the present.”

AMEN! My greatest gift and blessing in life is my family. I am profoundly grateful to have a husband who has willingly worked hard to allow me to stay home with our children. He hasn’t always loved having to go off each day to work; he’s a great dad who would love to spend more time at home with us. But he never begrudges our ability to pick up and dash off to have adventures (we homeschool). I feel completely “liberated” and not at all oppressed to be able to be home with our children. My mother worked fulltime, and I was raised to think I would have to do the same. “Don’t expect anyone to take care of you,” was what I grew up with. However, I feel fortunate to have met my husband, who agreed with my preference to be home while our babies were young. 21+ years later, I am still at home, and we are learning all the time. Each decade brings changes, and it’s been interesting to watch how women (and men) are evolving in our roles at home, at work, in the family, and so on.

These kind of women make me want to stomp on their feet.

I chose to stay home.
I chose to have lots of babies (going on 5, but I’m young yet)
Kids ask for money, moms and dads discuss the budget
I flex my brain more now that I’m a SAHM than I ever did in college or the work force. I have to be everything from manager to nurse to accountant to educator. Before I was just an event planner.
I had a brief stint where my husband was out of work and I went back. I HATED IT. Mostly because it’s a lot easier to get mistreated if it’s a baby puking on your blouse right before a date than it is if it’s by your boss, customer or anyone else you don’t really love as much.

These old feminists who think we women are betraying their advances are jerks. They wanted us to have a choice, but are haters when I make a choice.

Today’s best line: “our marriage is a joint effort, not some kind of grisly, decades-long power struggle.” Oh I forgot! (No wonder marriage looks so grim to secular people. A decades-long power struggle sounds awful.)

Amanda Marcotte reminds me of my mother, who was convinced that every man was out to trap a woman into traditional marriage, where she stayed at home, barefoot and pregnant in the kitchen, and so every woman needed a college degree and a career (start that career before you get married, girls) for an “escape hatch.” Yes, she actually told me I needed an “escape hatch” in case I wanted to leave my husband.  Needless to say, I am her worst parenting nightmare come true; she raised a traditional Catholic daughter who eschews the Pill, uses NFP and stays at home to homeschool her four (4!!) kids.  I thought feminism was about having choices.

“What good does it do if you liberate women from being forced into one mold, and then turn around and force them into another?”

This is exactly why I refuse to classify myself as a feminist. Well, and the rampant misandry throughout a good chunk of the movement. For a group of folks who are so adamant about women having choices, they come across as very happy to demonize those who don’t make the choices they think are best.

Wonder what she makes of women like me, with a degree, who worked as a “professional” in a field I loved for 11 years and . . . wait for it . . . am now a SAHM?  I’ve been home for 9 years, and my husband and I are waiting for child #4.  I am definitely not oppressed, neither am I stupid or naive.  Heck, I was a child with a working mother, for crying out loud, so it’s not like I even had the “bad” example of being raised by a SAHM.

Wonder if she has a category for that—intelligent, educated, highly skilled, Christian, SAHM by choice?  Could it be that some of us have weighed the options and decided on our own that this is what we want?  Nah.

Mandy, I understand your reasoning, and I hate the misandry too. But that’s part of why I *do* classify myself as a feminist: I don’t want to see the term used by only the feminists I disagree with. I prefer to get back to the core principles of real women’s liberation.
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It’s kind of like how some people say “After all the horror of those child-molesting priests, I refuse to call myself a Catholic.” It would be sad to throw out the whole of Catholicism with the bathwater of a few people’s evil actions.

I got some news for Ms. Amanda, I worked hard in the corporate world. Climbed that ladder pretty high up in one of the nations largest retailers and you know what? I sat back one day and found that I hated it beyond measure.  I quit.  I have been staying home for the past 9 years and it is much more challenging and entertaining being a parent/grandparent than it ever was at work watching everyone back-stab everyone else so they could look better to the boss. That is my “choice” and if she doesn’t like it, tough cookies. (probably the store bought kind she consumes. mine are tender, moist and positively scruptious. something that surprised me was the fact that I love cooking. before I couldn’t even boil water (no joke).) My husband has been behind me 110% all the way.  We had some rough financial times but we’ve rebounded and are steaming along at a steady clip now.  Ms. Amanda needs to get out more often.  There are more of us out there than she realizes.

I want to add, it was only after I came into the Church that I realized the value of being a woman. Before I was a practicing Catholic, I really had the negative, angry feminist position (yes, I had my subscription to Ms. Magazine!), and I felt defensive, like I *did* have to prove myself somehow. I went to college. I started grad school (haven’t finished yet—took a hiatus to have the children!). But along the way, I have grown in faith, and have realized that women have amazing worth, and it doesn’t take being a nasty, angry anti-life feminist to realize that. I love that there’s a “Feminists for Life” organization. I love knowing that what I am doing is of value. I don’t have to prove a thing. My husband and I are a team, good partners, and we are doing our best to raise up children who know their value in this world. Every life is of value, and my children know that. They know God created them perfectly, and that their job is to discern their calling, whether to religious life or in the secular world. I am at peace, knowing they won’t ever have to panic and feel “less than” due to gender or career choices.

I love reading your column and I love reading the comments. It’s gratifying to know that i’m not the only one- a thinking woman, at home, with kids, in-over-my-head-and loving-it, amazed at anti-woman remarks made by feminists.
I’ll trade places with her for one day. It’s probably pretty quiet at her house and I’ll bet she has some wine and chocolates stashed somewhere.

My stay at home mom is THE BEST THING that ever happened in my life! (I’m 19)... so Ms. I-Think-I’m-Cool-And-Liberated can go boast about how free she is to her children when they come home tired, emotionally destroyed, confused about something, and she’s there for them… like a hero. Oh wait, she doesn’t have kids. My bad! Well, maybe she can do it with her fellow “liberated women”.

My biggest fear is that is that one day I’m going to keel over dead and her poor husband won’t have the foggiest idea how to access all the money he’s worked so hard for all these years.    I don’t even think any account with his name on it has his actual signature, just this stay at home wife and mother’s approximation of it.  Anything that’s not a joint account is in my name only, probably because they wanted him in person to sign for something. 
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And while I’m not particularly concerned about money these days, I’m hardly home baking cookies (at least, that’s not all I do).  Since I’ve got a spouse who works all the time, I’m the one who gets the hornets’ nest out of the basketball net and talks to the medical specialists about what our kids’ might need.  I’m the one who deskunks the dog and chases the bat out of the basement.    This lady needs a reality check on what exactly stay at home moms do.  And to think she didn’t even mention driving - talk about living on another planet!

Simcha,
You said, “... because our marriage is a joint effort, not some kind of grisly, decades-long power struggle.”  That is brilliant. It’s like Ms. Marcotte has no idea what a marriage is!

I am another one with a B.A. and half a masters and stay at home. By the chart I am at 225% poverty level now that I have launched 3 kids! I resent women who feel I can’t be an intelligent, educated woman and make the rational decision to forgo income to make an investment in the next generation. I don’t ask my husband for money, my name is on the bank account into which his pay is direct deposited. I teach my kids at home, administer the family finances, plan and cook the meals, do small scale farming and volunteer in my church and community. Where’s the brainless, oppression and poverty in that? When I worked teaching, I didn’t have time to cook(which I love to do) or volunteer and saw my kids for a couple hours a day while I rushed them through homework, baths and bedtime. Who was that benefiting? Not me or the kids, that’s for sure! I hope to go back to graduate school when the youngest either launches or enters high school(if she chooses to go to Catholic school instead of homeschool)and then teach history part time at a community college. I am making the world and its future a better place, can the woman whose single focus is the money and self fulfillment say that?

I would quibble with this"I’ve been hobnobbing with conservative women all my life, and I’ve met exactly one who pines for the 50’s.”

I know a lot of women who think things were MUCH better on most fronts in the 1950s.

Simcha, I’m with ya on this.  And I’m a childless 40ish woman.  My only ‘caveat’:  This question really isn’t measurable on the political spectrum.  I am not politically conservative, and neither is most of my peer group.  Among them, there is a growing desire among even liberal-minded couples (particularly the crunchy ones)for the woman to stay at home with children.
I just want to make sure that the Amanda Marcottes of the world not be allowed to define this question along the (yawn) political spectrum. It’s way too important for that!
Blessings!!

Marcotte, like most feminist-y women and/or working moms, is simply irritated that there’s another group of women out there who don’t affirm her choices (or at least *appear* not to affirm her choices.) I say this because I have female friends who have severly judged me for giving up my career to stay at home with my son….and when they get into the details, it always comes off as a laundry list of defenses made to justify THEIR own decisions to not stay home with their kids. They automatically assume the SAHM’s are judging them for their decision, when often times, it’s simply not true. The “attack” made against the SAHM ends up being, instead, an opportunity for the working mother to justify her decision to *not* be a SAHM.

To me, it has much to do with this insane notion that exists among many grown women - and which is a leftover from high school - that we must all “fit in” and kind of do the same thing or else there is something wrong with us.

However, as cliche and overstated as this sounds, I have always wondered to myself if these angry women get irritated with SAHM’s because deep down they know that staying home with your kids is what’s best for children. I mean, there is an inate truth that human beings are born with, and being around for your kids is likely one of those truths. That being said, I fully understand that some women can’t, for a variety or reasons, indulge that truth. Thus, any of us SAHM’s need not explicitly judge other mother’s for having a career; we too need to take a step back and honor/respect the choices other women have made. That’s what TRUE feminism is about.

About the money: UGH! I am soooooo sick of the belief out there that a woman needs to have her own source of money, her own bank account, her own savings account, and even in some cases, the husband and wife need to split the bills 50/50 from each of their own stores of earned money. And why? Because you know, you’ll probably get divorced, so you’d better protect yourself.

One of the most obnoxious purveyors of this belief system is Suzie Orman. Who, by the way, I believe is biased when she gives this advice and berates women for not creating a seperate financial empire from her husband, because she is herself a lesbian and lefty feminist.

Like Simcha, my husband’s money is considered my money as well, even if I didn’t earn it. (But did I? I cook, clean, manage, take care of kids, and all sorts of other things. And my husband knows it and affirms my efforts.) Like Simcha, we discuss our budget and expenditures, and it doesn’t leave me in a sobbing heap of insecurity. Yes, I ask my husband for money if it’s a large expenditure that might impact our ability to pay bills, etc., but otherwise, my husband trusts me with the check card and check book. It’s called a MARRIAGE.

But therein is another unspoken issue that Marcotte doesn’t address. We live in a society where marriage is misunderstood, entered into for the wrong reasons, and where everyone is secretly preparing for divorce.

I’ve been married 11 years now (blessed thus far with 5 children), a SAHM since after the first birth. Finally, I know what I’ve been doing wrong all along. I never ‘asked’ for money!

Agree with the article and with most commenters. Two further reflections:

Women who have not had children do NOT know how they will think and feel when/if they do. (This is not to denigrate those who simply haven’t met the right man, or who have but are given the cross of infertility.) Having children changes you, even against your will. The kind of responsibility involved, the type of love that naturally arises, and the sort of agonized looking ahead to protect and nurture your children—these just can’t be approximated very well in any other realm. Ms. Marcotte speaks in ignorance; many women who are fiercely feminist in the modern sense find, to their horror, that these thoughts and feelings rise unbidden.

The second thing about being a SAHM is this: you are essentially your own mistress, in a way not true in the working-for-pay world. Because I am a bibiophile, I have read probably 10,000 books during my 15 years at home: novels, biographies, theology, histories, social commentary, political commentary, poetry, cookbooks. My time is mine to organize, and there’s no doubt I’ve done a poor job many times organizing it, but yet it’s mine. My ability of self-expression and self-direction is quite wide. True, the tasks involved with raising children and running a household are various, and taxing, and often unpleasant. But I get to order them as I please so that my other interests—reading, walking, music, cooking—still happen. The real difference between me and Ms. Marcotte is that she gets to measure her “worth” by her paycheck, while measuring mine isn’t so easy.

That article doesn’t make sense to me and I am a working Mom!  In my family, it made the most sense for my husband to stay at home, not because he was looking to be lazy (ha!) but because of income, benefits, personality, etc and our desire to have the kids with a parent full time.  Family decisions are about what gets it done - kids taken care of, house managed, bills paid, etc.  That looks different in different families.  Sounds like this article totally missed that boat!

Yay!  Best takedown of Marcotte I have ever read.  And that is because most of the others I have read have been written by snarky, ultra-conservative-feminist-hating-Phyllis-Schlafly-devotees who have no idea how to meet Marcotte on her own ground and argue from there.  I am so glad you wrote this. 

I want to highlight the point about equality in marriage, and “asking your husband for every dollar” because I have a marriage in which this is very much an issue.  I want to say that it is NOT an issue of being a one-income (or actually, one and a half, but the full-time and part-time jobs are both worked by my husband) family.  It is because the husband and I have super, real problems discussing money and he has a disability that contributes to this inability making it a very real hurdle to overcome.  It is not the earnings that is the root.  It is the lack of an egalitarian relationship, exacerbated by communication and problem-solving skills on both of our parts. 

So the issue is not that one income means automatic inequality.  Only endemic problems of inequality can make one income such a problem for women (or men) in a marriage.

Let’s not forget that stay at home “momming” IS a job.

I love Sibyl’s point about the measure of one’s worth being much more difficult when one does not get a paycheck.  While Amanda Marcotte might argue that a woman’s worth is not reflected in such a thing as a dollar amount, it is certainly true that our society is ever more seduced by the idea that we *can* put a number value on everything.  That something like motherhood/staying at home is so difficult to quantify is, all by itself, enough to cause extreme distress in many kinds of intellectual-types who haven’t yet realized that measuring and quantifying are tools, not actualy definitions of truth.

Dear Ms. Fisher,

I read the article you’ve linked to, and as a working mother (and feminist), I think that I would interpret the message slightly differently than would Ms. Marcotte.

The purpose of work outside of the home is ideally both to earn money and for the pursuit of some activity that uses a talent or challenges a person. If I am happy at my work, it is because it pays well and because I an engaged while doing it. For many people, women and men, their work does not provide for more than just money, and often not even for enough of it. Why wouldn’t someone prefer to stay at home with one’s children in that case?

I usually like my work, which is lucky, and I have always been the main breadwinner in the family. The happiest period in my relationship with my child’s father was when he stayed at home with our daughter. It was wonderful to know that she was being cared for by the only person who loves her as much as I do, and it was GREAT to have dinner ready for me when I came home. Unfortunately, my work is precarious (as is his), and it’s pretty important for two of us to have our feet in the paid work world. I think this is very common, and along with the low pay for unrewarding jobs, leads to a lot of paid workers to idealize a stay-at-home scenario as being ‘cookie-baking, money-worry-free’ bliss.

One thing: being the sole breadwinner gave me a lot of empathy for dads who support their families.

Another thing: I think that because a lot of the male sense of identity is wrapped up in ‘what one does’ and ‘what one earns’ and other notions of success, the likelihood of men (at this point in history) wanting to be stay-at-home-dads is necessarily going to be lower.

Case in point: I am expecting a baby with another man, who really prefers not to go to work, but he won’t even entertain the notion of being a SAHD, because it would insult his notion of masculinity.

I should note: I have stayed at home with my daughter, while unemployed, and I was BUSY, even though she was at school for five hours per day. I have also been a nanny, and a very good one, so I don’t discount the effort involved in being a stay-at-home. Clearly Ms. Marcotte has not had this experience, or has the idea that SAHM are usually married to wealth and that life is easy.

The women I know and am friends with are almost universally feminists. When they choose to stay at home it’s because a) they had children because they wanted them, and like them, so b) they would like them to have the best care possible, and c) paying for good care for more than one child often negates the income one makes by going out to work, while d) going to work costs money, for clothes, transportation, more restaurant meals, etc. etc. etc. So financially and emotionally it is a good family decision for someone to stay home, and if the dad makes more money, then the conclusion is fairly easy.

The main concerns that I consider serious about women generally staying at home are:
a) if your spouse is not a ‘keeper,’ you are vulnerable to them (not all men are good husbands/ fathers)
b) if your spouse dies and you are not life-insured or in a position to take paid work, you can be in real trouble (my brother-in-law had a recent bout with cancer, and this was an issue, albeit a small one, for my sister)
c) there is truly not a lot of respect in the world for mothers or mothers’ work, and it can be wearing to be dismissed by culture/ society.

With regards to this last point, one of the reasons that women wanted so badly to enter the workforce was to gain the kind of respect that paid work brings. Of course, that is the subject of a whole other book of essays, but it does undermine the whole notion of ‘going back to the 1950s,’ in my opinion.

Kind Regards, KHoward.

Right you are Simcha! (who is Amanda Morcotte?)

Writing this anonymously, I simply state that I did work prior to being a mother and could now easily walk out the door and get a job in my field.  The kicker?  It’s a 6 figure salary that I’m not taking.  Multiply that by the twenty years that I’ve been home with my children.

Now, I can’t be *that* stupid, as I got into the very difficult school to get that degree that allows me to make that much money.  And yet?  All I can think of - almost every single day of my life - are all the positives I have from staying home.  And if Marcotte got uncorked enough to look at it just once from my perspective but her way of thinking: t’s the ultimate in my own power, I’m my own boss, I control my life (especially now that I have no more little kids!).

And what a great husband I have who never begrudged me the loss of that kind of income and instead encouraged me to create what is a pretty happy home and a fairly well-adjusted family.  Society could use some more of those…

And yes, I have my local circle of friends who keep expecting me to go back to work now that the kids are grown.  What, you and your husbands can retire after years of working, but I’m supposed to go out and work more?  Because if you love staying home, it’s not really work, so I was just playing house all those years, see? 

They are so confused, poor things.

Charlotte
Have to slightly disagree. It’s not separate bank accounts that are so important, but I do think a lot of women have no idea of their family finances (investments etc.) unlike Simcha.  It’s not so hard to make sure you are financially savvy and informed, but a lot of SAHM have no clue.  I think this is what the Suzie Ormans of the world are trying to get women to do.  I have a mother who could use her advice.

Wow, this Marcotte person is so pathetic that it’s hard to justify wasting a moment’s worth of anger on her ridiculous ideas.  All she’s doing is stamping her feet and throwing a tantrum because the data in that study doesn’t support her worldview.  Oh, well.  Someone who thinks that every parent who chooses to stay at home and take care of his or her family is a lazy, stupid, uneducated, good-for-nothing needs to get out of her cubicle and walk around in the real world once in a while.  Thanks for the rebuttal, Simcha—brilliant, and entertaining, as usual.  :)

*Disclaimer: Someone may have already written about this. I apologize for possible repetition…

Here’s a conundrum for Miss Amanda: The WSAHP: Working Stay at Home Parent. I’m one. I technically have 2 full-time jobs all day, every day (save the weekends and holidays, then I just work the “kid thing”), and each endeavor takes place in the same space at the same time. I’m exhausted from just typing all that; can you imagine what it’s like actually DOING IT? And, are you sitting down?, I’m not the ONLY one who is a WSAHP. It is possible to have the best of both worlds: a connection to the career for which I have worked so hard and the loves of my life, my kiddos. Some of us have no choice to earn a paycheck, others actually enjoy earning it. Does the latter make us bad parents? I think not. Does passing judgment on those who have a different opinion make us bad people? I think so.

Now if you’ll excuse me, I have a toddler boycotting naptime in his bedroom and a conference call on hold in my office…

Stephanie: Hear, hear! I’m a work-at-home mom too, and it drives me nuts that there’s this persistent false dichotomy between stay-at-home-with-kids and work-outside-the-house. I feel I have the best of both worlds (plus a wonderful husband who’s a stay-at-home dad and does the majority of the homeschooling!). It’s not easy, but it’s challenging and rewarding.

And really….ALL motherhood is difficult, challenging and rewarding. *Every* mother works.

I’m going into my third month as a stay-at-home dad. If she really thinks that staying at home is *easier* than going to work everyday, then she can live in that fantasy.

I’m raising two girls—2-yr-old and a 8-month old—and I miss my working days just because they *were* easier.

((Quick aside: No, while I’ve found most people assume I’m a stay-at-home dad because I lost my job, nope. My previous job wasn’t a great fit for me, but I did better than average at it, made enough money, etc. I just wanted something more fulfilling at the same time my wife was offered her dream position. I’m man enough to take non-traditional roles when it makes everyone in the family happier.))

Bravo, Brandon! Good for you and your wife for working together to do what’s best for your family. What you’re doing is not called being “Mr. Mom” - it’s called being “Dad.”

it has always seemed to me that feminists really just want to BE men. After all, it can’t be that they want to be equal, since we are already equal to men even though we are different (Gen 1:27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God he created him; male and female he created them.) So the only thing left is to actually BE men? What can I say, I stayed home for 17 years raising my kids. I loved being home, and spent countless hours doing volunteer work at the schools, church, and scouts. And I don’t think I’m completely brainless (though my brain does experience some mushiness at times). I live in a one-horse town, where science is the horse. I have a PhD in Physical Chemistry, but never wanted to work for the “lab”. My husband does and I never felt we needed 2 people coming home with that kind of stress just to have lots of income. And who stays home with the kids if they are sick? Some things just aren’t worth the sacrifice of being “way above the poverty line”. Is it more of a struggle now with kids in college - yup. But it works. It really hasn’t kept us from going out to dinner occasionally, or buying a new outfit for a special occasion, or donating to the Church and other charities. My life is great, and so is my God :)  I feel sorry for people who feel such a need to struggle to be what they think they are struggling not to be. So I pray… a LOT! Have a wonderful, joyful, blessed day everyone :)

Is it ever ok for a Catholic woman to have a career that takes them out of the home - either single, or married, or married with children?  Could someone please ever write a column that would discuss this?  Potentially thoughts on how to live that life with grace and virtue.

@jeh, just a very quick answer, but MANY holy women work outside the home, and I really hope that working women aren’t reading these comments and feeling condemned or insulted.  Danielle Bean always says to do what works the best for YOUR family (and nobody knows the dynamics of your family better than you do).  While some basic truths apply, there are so many ways to build a happy and holy family while not starving to death, that I honestly get just as itchy when Catholics claim that it’s a sin for mothers to work as I do when feminists say it’s wrong for them not to.

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I know that doesn’t answer your question, but I’ve just been meaning to say that all day.

Simcha, this work outside the home mom <3s you.

And may I say (not to jeh, but just in general), something that really chafes is when a woman mentions something about how difficult it is to get work done when the children interrupt all the time—and some stay-at-home mom invariably gently suggests that the Holy Spirit is using the little ones as a way of reminding us what our primary vocation is. People don’t say that to my husband, because it’s understood that he has to get his job done.

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I do consider my role as wife and mother to be my primary vocation, and I am very grateful to be able to work part-time from home, and I’m extremely lucky to be doing something that I enjoy; but that doesn’t mean I can just drop it when the kids are extra whiny!  People who work from home have deadlines, too - we’re not just messing around.

Simcha,I just love your candor and wit, you remind me of my awesome beautiful and amazing stay at home wife. She homeschools our 8 kids,cooks homemade nutritious meals and still has time for spiritual enrichment and ME! More and more the smart women seem to be seeking true fulfillment as a wife and a mother.(and a job raising a family) Thank God for women who aren’t afraid of a challenge!

June Cleaver, a typical housewife and mother, remained calm amid household tumult, providing crucial guidance to her sons while shielding them from nefarious outside influences with a matronly force of will.
The father Ward Cleaver was a Solomon-like figure of quiet dignity who dispensed parental justice tempered with understanding. Perceptive viewers knew his furrowed brow and clenched jaw were hints of serious inner turmoil, reminiscent of the anger toward society and unfulfilled economic dreams that tormented Willie Loman in “Death of a Salesman,” the classic 1949 play about dysfunctional families.
Liberals refuse to acknowledge the many fundamental truths in the Bible and even dismiss out-of-hand the many examples of Biblical scientific foreknowledge but refuse to read the Bible.

Ah, Amanda, Amanda.

I know someone else mentioned this, but it bears repeating that the single biggest indicating factor for poverty is single motherhood (not race, not anything else). So, I do believe that the “breakdown of the traditional family” has something to do with poverty. Maybe one day Amanda will dig a little deeper and makes some connections.

After reading your post, I clicked on the article which speaks so beautifully and mystically on female sexuality.  And again, the inspiration that we Catholic wives need to reclaim the arena of exalted human sexuality from the abyssmal wasteland of secular humanism.  I tell my older sons that pornography is the biggest rip-off in the world.  The devil could never invent sex, but it is clear to see why he would try to commandeer it.  The polls of the “sexually liberated” reveal their profound dissatisfaction.  Maybe they should “take their temperature” and see if their body and spirit correspond to their ideologies!  Or in that bold Simcha style maybe one of your next posts should read: “To my feminist sister: I know your sex life sucks”  No “mind blowing” sex position in Cosmo will ever fill the yawning emptiness in her heart!

@Simcha - thank you.  I appreciate your thoughts.  I didn’t mean to come across rudely if I did, I’m just frustrated.  I am single and for numerous valid reasons I likely will never get married or have children, although I readily admit I don’t know what God has in store for me.  I spent a lot of time on my education and now that I am working I have realize how much faith I lost during that time.  I’ve been working on regaining that and looking for encouragement in new places now, (the transition has mostly been good but I’m more lonely than ever before now so the internet has been a go to source) and everywhere I am inundated with the ideal of the good Catholic woman as being a stay at home mother of multiple children.  I didn’t get married young like we’re telling our college students to again, but it wasn’t an option for me that I forwent because I chose to work.  If I ever do get married I won’t need a registry because now I’m in my 30s and have accumulated everything I need, so there goes that marriage tradition.  I don’t have children to cook and clean for or a husband to serve.  I know I matter and that no one means to give that impression, and I’m smart enough to know part of why this bothers me so much is that I want a family of my own, but it would be nice to feel like women in my position are remember and validated from time to time within the Catholic Church.  Haven’t heard a homily that applied to my circumstances in life in years.

Thanks again for the excellent writing.

C’mon ladies!  Stop being so defensive about working with your husbands to raise the next generation.  Live it with joy and aplomb, and your mark will be made well into the future.  You might attract others too but you won’t get much of a pat on the back in the present age.

I agree with most of you but thegeneral tone sounds like you are trying to convince yourselves and others (I could have done something else but I chose this….).  Imagine if St. Therese spent too much time explaining why she was not really insane for living and enjoying the sacrificial life of the cloister, rather than merely living it out with all she had.  Perhaps, that confident, quiet witness will go furhter than all of the repeating of the same cutesy arguments on behalf of something that men and women have known since the dawn of time.

God bless,
Dan Hoffman

I am sure you didn’t mean it, Dan, but you just basically said, ” Hey Ladies! Shut up and take it!”

God Bless

The Jerk

>...it would be nice to feel like women in my position are remember and validated from time to time within the Catholic Church.  Haven’t heard a homily that applied to my circumstances in life in years.” (jeh)

I am sympathetic to your position, and often wonder about the “path not taken.” Have you read anything by Mary Beth Bonacci? I know she writes well from your viewpoint. While I love being a mother, I also long to be the doting auntie. However, I’m so busy with my own children, it’s hard to find time and energy left to do that.  If I’d been single, no kids, I am sure I’d have been busy with a regular FT job, but I know I’d be busily working with children in some capacity….I know it’s not the same as having one’s own, but it can be so fulfilling, both for yourself and for the children who NEED attention. My niece was like my first baby, and now she’s married with her own children. Also, in my current parish, there is a great need for people to come forward to teach RE to our youth. Most parents don’t seem to come forward, but we are blessed with wonderful, talented, generous college students who are willing to teach! How much more wonderful would it be to have single young adults come forward to join the college students (and the cross-eyed, tired parents, myself included, who get there early to do this!). Hehe.

@Simcha: AMEN SISTER! Thanks for writing this!

“I am endlessly grateful to Amanda Marcotte for being so easy to smack around when I’m tired and don’t feel up to making a subtle argument against someone who actually thinks about stuff.”

I was about to make a comment about shooting, barrels & fish but you’re way ahead of me!

I was a feminist until I realized they were anti-feminine. They are anti-family (unless it is a “nontraditional family”, consider the home and homemaking of no value, generally have no children but ALL kinds of ideas about how those of us with kids should be rearing them, what they should be taught, how they should think. Their war on masculinity and ridiculous notions about “gender roles” reveal their pathological need to mold the world to their dystopian vision. Bless you for being a SAHM, Simcha. I hope you have 12 kids!

This is great, and I’m glad someone else was willing to bring up Marcotte’s bangs. The best thing is calling her and her ilk throwbacks. Marcotte sounds like my 60 year old feminist aunt who insists her and her husband switch their evenly distributed chore list every other week. I like the point one post made about complete dependance on one’s working spouse—if God forbid something happens to the bread winner even the most stay at homiest SAHP should have a plan B for working outside the home to provide for their family. God bless!

@the Jerk (makes me chuckle to write that):

I don’t thing Therese “took it”.  She “did it”.
I just think a lot of ladies who choose to stay home and spend time with their children (and it gets even more important that you do so when they roll into their teens and college years) are still buying the lie of the feminists deep down inside.  The constant rationalizing and qualifying your decisions by explaing that you had a career or could have pursued other option are indications of that.  Even with your pithy and cute retorts to people like Ms. Marcotee, you come across like you feel the need to react and explain yourself.  It shows a lack of confidence.  A quick example:  My dad had enormous social and leadership skills.  He could have used those to make a fortune or have a successful political career but he chose to share those skills by sharing enormous amounts of time with his children.  He knew he could have pursued and succeeded in more superficial pursuits but he was confident that his vocation as a husband and father was much more important; so he did it.  He never felt the need to explain to other men who made more money or were prominent.  In fact, when I became an adult, friends whose fathers were much more “successful” told me they thought I was lucky to have such a father.
So c’mon ladies, quit with the cutesy rationalizations and just live the life you know is best for your family.  It is not about whether or not you could choose something else.  It is about doing what you know is right and living that with confidence. 

God bless,
Dan Hoffman

Modern feminists   never wanted gender equality; they want power for the female left;
In movies, falsely portray the men as inherently evil, dumb or incompetent, and the women as inherently good, smart or competent (note that this conflicts with gender equality)
THey pretend that there are no meaningful differences between men and women when that advances liberal causes (e.g., women and men equally in military combat, to weaken the U.S. military), but reject equality when that results in more money to women (e.g., VAWA funding of women’s groups)
They oppose chivalry and even feign insult at harmless displays of it (see battle between the sexes)
They view traditional marriage as unacceptably patriarchal
They belittle and mock other women who desire to have children or raise a family.
Feminists shirk traditional gender activities, like baking[7] and support affirmative action for women
They prefer that women wear pants rather than dresses, presumably because men do.
They seek women in combat in the military just like men, and coed submarines
They refuse to take her husband’s last name when marrying and believe marriage implies female servitude when it is in fact a mutual bond.
They distort historical focus onto female figures, often overshadowing important events (Eg: Henry VIII’s wives take precedence in common knowledge to his actual reign.)
Feminists often condemn the God-Given order of gender roles, as laid out in the Holy Bible.
They object to being addressed as “ma’am,” or feminine nicknames such as “sweetheart” or “honey”;[11] object to other female-only names, such as “temptress” and take offense at grammatical rules of the English language, like using the pronoun “he” when referring to a hypothetical/anonymous person, or phrases like ‘fireman’ and ‘stewardess.’
Worst of all, they support of the homosexual agenda

My mother worked with my father in their family business, often putting in 12 hours a day. She was usually exhuasted, crabby and irritable at the end of the day. Since she was a workaholic the situation never changed. We often at poorly because she lacked the time to go shopping or cook. They made a good income which they put to use educating their children. It is partly from this experience (even though I am grateful to my parents) that I and my sisters are all firmly committed SAHMs. I graduated from a private college, worked a bit after, but have stayed home for the last 24 years having babies and homeschooling. I can’t imagine choosing any other lifestyle willingly. Ironically, since my husband works at home, he actually is more AT HOME than I am and has less daily interaction with other adults than I do.

Dan, come on, yourself!  Your tone is condescending.  “C’mon ladies. . . cutesty rationalizations. . . “

I think it’s funny that you find something to put these women down for!

And I was just wondering, how is you “explaining” what your dad did to all of us any different than women sharing their actual experiences with us? You are making a point with your example against something you find silly (these women’s “defenses”) and these women are making a point with their personal examples against something they find silly (Amanda’s article). 

Idk, nit-picking comes to mind!

But then I’m just a working stay at home mom so what do I know?!

Ooh ooh, just wanted to add that Jeopardy tonight had a stay at home mom champion. She was kicking butt and left everyone in the dust. So she bakes dozens of cookies at home then takes off her apron to win $50,000 (so far) in a couple of days. LOVE IT!

So Dan, you’re saying they should maintain the well-kept secret that their lives are more than/ just as fulfilling?

.
Also, I side with JEH about the church not knowing what to do with singles…  it’s so demeaning to realize that the priests don’t even think about us.  And if we say anything… ( I recently complimented a seminarian for including references to people who didn’t necessarily live in a family… our main priest shrugged it off like I was being finicky.) we’re just being difficult and unappreciative.
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@Joann… good suggestions but please be careful about assuming single adults have more free time than you.  We have do everything you and your husband have to do to run a household and there’s only one of us. (and I don’t have a dishwasher! :-)  )

Oh, I certainly didn’t mean to assume that you had more time as a single person. We all have the same number of hours in a day. I just remember that when I was a single, FT student working two jobs, I felt like I had more time than I have now. When I was single, I taught religious ed and sang in the choir, along w/the college and jobs. But yes, I didn’t need much sleep back then! At this point, I have six kids, one of whom is disabled, plus my elderly, disabled mother-in-law with dementia. And I care for my (also disabled) father and sister long-distance, taking the kids on a LONG road trip each summer to help them. But it’s not a contest. I do what I can, and it’s really never enough. And my health has suffered in recent years (two broken ankles and brain surgery), so I am trying to slow down and do what matters. Believe me, I know being single doesn’t guarantee “free” time, but I did feel a lot less conflicted then about how I spent my time. I didn’t have the NOISE and clamor there is now, if I neglect something! ;)

Dan: I disagree with you. The reason these women are “rationalizing” their decissions as you say, is simply to prove what a narrow view Marcotte has, since it is, after all, the topic of this article. I, however, doubt that they spend their days telling anyone who will listen why the chose to be SAHMs. “So c’mon ladies, quit with the cutesy rationalizations and just live the life you know is best for your family” not only are they already doing that but explaining your reasons to do something doesn’t mean deep down you feel insecure about them.

I have bangs similar to Amanda Marcotte’s, because I think they look NICE. I am surprised that some people (including Simcha) have commented here that her hair is weird or unattractive.

Say what you want about her opinions, but does it really add anything to your argument, to call someone’s appearance weird/unattractive?

Good read and very true!  Feminism has become so skewed that it no longer represents and protects women’s rights.  No, it dictates to women what they OUGHT to want and fie on them if they don’t want what’s ‘good for them’...

Amanda, have your best buddy get a bucket and a mop!  Here comes one that will utterly explode your head:
Reilly Reality:  I am a US Navy Vet, a physician, the sole bread-winner in our family.  I am fortunate to have a loving and disabled husband who is brilliant in his role as SAHD with our children.  I give him all my income and, in return, do accept a small weekly allowance.

We’re very happily married. 

Mull that one for a moment before your brain pops!

@ER

My point was that my Dad had tremendous impact because he lived out his mission without a defenseive spirit or the need to explain himself.  Others noticed without him feelig the need to rationalize the time he spent with us at the expense of the office and business networks.  He was not famous or overly successsful in the materialistic sense, but if you knew him, you knew he was (literally) a great man.

@the Jerk:  I want to modify my response - Not “take it” or “do it”.  I should have written “be it”.

Finally, lay off Amanda’s bangs.  It makes you sound so petty and, again, defensive.

God bless,
Dan Hoffman

My mom is so awesome, she stays home AND works AND takes care of elderly parents.  Is that a mushroom cloud I see?
Also, I readily admit I am lazy; I have no kids but, aside from having nice co-workers, I could kiss my “real” job goodbye and not look back.  She acts like it’s a bad thing.  One of my favorite quotations ever: “Progress isn’t made by early risers.  It is made by lazy [wo]men looking for an easier way to do something.” - Robert Heinlein

Thank you, again, Simcha.  BTW, I do not have time to bake cookies or much else for that matter. Would enjoy it.  My son is 100% energy.  I love him so much!  Yeah, for real moms!

I’ve thought about this article and all the comments since yesterday….Really, it all comes down to trying to discern God’s will in our lives, right? And from a very young age, I knew I wanted to be a mom at home. This was w/the FT working mom who really enjoyed her work. I worked hard in school, went to college, but never felt called to any professional life. I did work from the age of 16 on, all the way until a few days before my son was born. But it was just “jobs,” and not a calling. My real calling has been being home with the children. I’m not a terrific cook. I’m not the best mom ever. But I know no one else will love my children the way I do. I love just normal days. I love my “baby” (who will be eight years old next month!) with his gap-toothed smile and messy bedhead each morning. I love hearing from my son away at college. My daughter (13) and I love making him treats and mailing them to him. I just love, love, love having my family. Having my family is the best thing that has ever happened to me. And I cannot imagine how any job could EVER come close. I am glad there are dedicated career people out there. There are important jobs that need that kind of determination and energy (medicine, law, even shop clerking!). But I just don’t feel called to that. I do think sometimes about working “someday” when the kids are gone. I am partial to libraries. IF there are libraries once the kiddos are gone, then that might be my second calling. But until then, I will contend with dust bunnies, Life of Fred (math), and celebrating saints’ days at home. Wouldn’t have it any other way! I hope we can all feel good about where we are, what we’re doing, and be at peace that we are where God is calling us, whether it’s at home, at work, or both. If I were more talented, I think working at home would be ideal. But I simply don’t have any great ideas! Again, I think that’s a gift. My friend from childhood is a WAHM, has her own business, and is doing GREAT. But I have joked since we were young, everything she touches turns to gold. I just don’t have that ability! Thankfully, I am pretty good at scheduling, because that’s what my day consists of….Running kids to and fro, taking care of mother-in-law with her many doctor visits….

I believe stay-at-home-momming needs an apologetic, simply because it gets so many attacks.  Of course we’re defensive—we’re always defending ourselves against people who say, “Sure it would be nice to lounge around baking cookies,” as if we didn’t do any real work.  It’s frustrating, and we fear other women will be discouraged from taking our path if all they hear is denigration.

JEH, you might try finding some Catholic singles’ blogs.  Seraphic Singles has been my personal favorite since my single days, and I still read it.  It’s true that singles don’t get much attention in church, and it’s very sad—especially since it always feels like you’re the only one sitting alone.

I think Marcotte could be very easily answered with a good excerpt from Chesterton.  Something about it being considered “large” to teach other people’s children about the Rule of Three and “small” to teach your own kids about everything ... he goes on and on, and it always makes me feel proud to be a SAHM.

@Dan Hoffman: are you perhaps one of those guys who doesn’t do anything for your wife on her birthday, because you’re nice to her every day of the year?

Ha-cha-cha-cha-chaaa!

I stayed at home full time when my kids were young and work part time now that they are older. I admit I was a bit naive in my 20’s.  Over the course of a couple of decades I did see women who were SAHM’s in what I thought were faithful Catholic marriages filled with many children who were left in a terrible position when the marriage fell apart.  They had no means to support themselves and no usable skill in the job market.  I am very grateful for my marriage and do not have to worry about being in that position.  However, I think we should encourage our daughters to have a marketable skill.  It is valuable to have even just to support their husband when needed with the financial needs of the family.  And more often that I would like I hear SAHM’s say they do have to ask their husbands for money.  There is not a sense of this money is both of ours.  That is sad to see.  Especially in a Catholic marriage.  So I don’t want to be pessimistic but some of the concerns raised are very true for some women.  For me personally I have to remind my husband of the password to the online banking just in case anything happens to me.
I do think there are many women who would like to stay home but work instead of relying on gov’t assistance.  My hat is off to them.  Then there are all the single moms who are stay at home moms who rely entirely on the gov’t and have no plan to ever work.  The breakdown of the family and the absence of all these dads does contribute to poverty.

When I was in my early 20’s, fresh out of college, working my first low-income post-college job (liberal arts degree), I mocked a similarly-aged co-worker for aspiring to find a nice man to marry so she could stay home and raise children.  “Have you no ambition?”, I asked.  After all, I was one day going to make $25,000 a year instead of the $15,000 a year we were both making.  I would be getting an epidural with both pregnancies I was planning, the babies would get formula, and go to daycare until they attended Catholic school.

I quit my $20,000/year job two weeks after my maternity leave ended after my first baby.  Once I saw the big epidural needle, I decided I’d rather deliver au natural.  I can count the number of bottles of breastmilk (not a drop of formula) my four daughters have had between them, and I have the saggy breasts to show for it.  And I’m currently homeschooling a third grader, kindergartner, preschooler, and toddler.  Life looks a lot different in my mid-thirties then I imagined it 10 years ago, when I had all the answers.  I’ve learned A LOT of humility since then.  God’s ways are not our own.  LOL

And I just love Marcotte’s sexist objection #1.  I work way harder as a SAH, homeschooling Mom then I did in my last pre-baby job of punching numbers into a computer while I listened to my favorite music on my head-phones.  Being a parent is hard work whether you do paid work (outside or inside the home) on top of it. 

But again sexist objection #2 assumes that as a SAHM mom I do nothing but sit around eating bon-bons, watching soap operas, and baking cookies.  I guess you might have time to do that if your kids are all old enough and you choose to send them away to school, but then again I’m sure that I could find plenty of work that needs to be done around the house even if I did have it to myself for six hours a day.

I think, though, Marcotte’s attitude belies a certain amount of class bigotry.  For instance, it’s one thing to have to clean up after yourself as just a part of life (unless you’re rich enough to afford maids, butlers, etc), but in her mind no one would choose to devote their days to cleaning up after other people and doing the icky things in life unless they were so uneducated that they had no other choice.  After-all, you don’t see many college-educated white people cleaning toilets in hotels or filling up garbage trucks.

Secondly, in her mind only uneducated stupid people live on the poverty line because no educated and smart person in their right mind would choose a lower middle class lifestyle when they could have an upper-middle class lifestyle.

I take offense at Amanda’s implication that women who are taking care of children and the home are somehow being lazy or getting off easy. I went to one of the top ten private universities in this country, worked professionally for seven years after that till last year when I had my first child. I joyfully chose to stay at home with my daughter for many reasons and do not regret it. In all my years as a working professional I never worked as hard as I do now, chasing after a one year old, constant diaper changes, cleaning her up, playing with her, etc, and taking care of the home at the same time. I would love to know what stay at home moms are sitting around all day baking cookies for entertainment and don’t worry about money. Sure, you have to make some sacrifices in order to live on one income, but honestly, to my husband and I, it is worth it to be able to give my daughter full time parental love and attention. I understand that some women choose to work and some women have to work, and this is fine, that is their decision. But stay at home mothers/fathers should NOT be ridiculed or made out to be lazy in any way, because it is a lot of work! Life-giving, beautiful work….but still, a lot of work! I don’t think it is fair the term “Super Mom” is only commonly applied to women who work outside the home. There is a heck of a lot of work to do inside the home too and stay at home moms are just as “Super” as the rest!

Haha Amanda Marcotte is rather ignorant, n’est-pas?  Being a SAHM is ever so much more difficult and demanding work than getting paid for something ... that’s my experience of 16+ years speaking.  So why would ANY woman want to make that switch?  Mandy can’t answer that question, which is one reason she has to have tantrums instead of thinking.  Also, I grew up as the child of a “working mother” and was a latch-key child before that term was even invented ... I intentionally made a different choice for my own family and that was no coincidence ... ya know, it just occured to me ... Mandy must have been neglected in her childhood and that’s why she is so enraged ... must go pray for her now ...

@Simcha,

“As men grow more alike, each man feels himself weaker in regard to all the rest,....he mistrusts himself as soon as they assail him.”
Tocqueville says it well and all I am saying is that the harder I hear men and women protest against the culture with self-justifying statements, the more it sounds like they are trying to gain acceptance from a culture that has gone terribly awry. What really impacts those who live with no or twisted priorities, are those who do and do so with quiet confidence.

God bless,
Dan Hoffman

I dunno, Dan—if being silent and right is the most powerful argument, then why is it that you left four comments justifying your point of view?

Never said silent…..but I will leave it at that.  Blogs are not meant for dialogue; I think they are more for venting which, I suppose, has some function.

Best of luck,
Dan

Translating Dan to English: “I don’t want to listen to you mouthy chicks, I just want to tell you what to do.”

As a liberal woman I think SAHM are awesome.  And Marcotte is indeed uncorked it she thinks other wise.  My SAHM worked harder the I ever did in an office!

My experience is the reverse or mirror image of most on this thread—my husband has been the stay at home parent for most of our marriage and I have been the breadwinner. Also, we only had one child (NOT by choice, we wanted more but it didn’t happen) who is autistic, and she was homeschooled by my husband for several years. However, I lost my job very suddenly, and could not find anything that paid nearly what I had before so both of us had to work for a time.

You’d think I’d be a raging feminist, but I’m not. We believe wholeheartedly in stay at home parenting, it’s just that in our case, it made more sense for HIM to stay home because my job (at the time we had our daughter) paid more and had better benefits. Nevertheless we probably would stand out like a sore thumb among most traddie Catholic or homeschool gatherings because we don’t appear to be as “traditional” as they are.

I think stay at home parents of either gender are awesome, and this whole idea that EVERYONE has to measure their worth by what kind of college degree they have or what job they have is horse hockey. In general, I agree, women will be more suited to the stay at home parent role, but depending on a couple’s circumstances it can be the father who does this.

May your tribe increase. But you didn’t need me to say that.  :-)

The testimony from the SAHMs about how fulfilling their live choices have been in worth its weight in gold. That testimoney is neither “petty”, nor “defensive”, as some here have suggested.

Instead it’s a valuable counterweight to the negative light in which our liberal intelligensia (personified by academic and media types living and working on either coast) have held SAHMs, so much so, that SAHMs who socialize in such circles have horror stories to tell about being snubbed at cocktail parties or at childrens’ birthday parties as soon as it comes out that she doesn’t have a career for which she receives a paycheck of her own.

Many such women have recounted being asked, “What do you do?”, replying, “I stay at home with my __ (2, 3, 4) children,” and then observing their interlocuter literally turn his or her back on her, and to engage someone else more “interesting” or more “powerful.”

Being snubbed in that way is a form of abuse and oppression. By the liberal intelligensia. And to speak out about it, or about how one appreciates being a SAHM is a responsible, constructive, and intelligent response to that abuse and oppression.

Please, keep it coming! You go, girls!

Marion, please don’t exclude members of the “liberal intelligensia” who are SAHMS, too.
And I should add that I was snubbed by some former SAHM friends when I went back to outside-the-house work, so oppression can cut both ways.

L., I was speaking about the generalities, not the particulars. And I believe, that in general, my generalities hold more true than not.

Your mileage may vary.

Yes, my “mileage” varied. An affluent, highly liberal crowd of SAHMS at the preschool my son attended in San Francisco thought women who went back to fulltime work had their priorities confused—because, you know, working mothers can’t POSSIBLY love their children as much as SAHMs do. Working moms are just inferior mothers! I’ve heard similar tales from friends all over the country.

There is no cultural monopoly, neither on the right nor the left, on oppression and just plain mean spiritedness. The so-called “Mommy Wars” are being waged everywhere—and everyone loses.

“There is no cultural monopoly, neither on the right nor the left, on oppression and just plain mean spiritedness. The so-called
‘Mommy Wars’ are being waged everywhere—and everyone loses.”

Oh, please. Don’t pretend that the anti-SAHM movement didn’t get off the ground first among the Left, starting in the 1960s. And please don’t pretend that anti-SAHM hasn’t been a major tenet of feminism and liberalism in general ever since.

I know there are truckers who like to listen to opera on CD players while driving their cross-country hauls. But to claim on that basis that the popularity of opera among our blue-collar class is comparable to its popularity among our upper-middle and upper classes, or that the presence of opera companies in our cities derives especially from its popularity among truckers, would be most . . . odd.

However, you go right ahead and argue things like that, if it floats your boat.

WHAT . . .

. . . ever.

So you think SAHMS among the “liberal intelligensia” are as common as truckers who listen to opera? And you think there is an “anti-SAHM movement?”

If there WERE an “anti-SAHM movement” that sought to pressure women back into the fulltime work force regardless of their personal choices, I truly think most liberal women would avidly join forces with their conservative counterparts to oppose it.

Have you ever read anything by Linda Hirschman? Her brand of feminism can be called “anti-SAHM,” but she’s an extremist. Plenty of liberals rail against her, too.

Folks, arguing over whether or not there are “mommy wars,” or competing over which side is more victimized, IS the mommy wars.  Do we really want to spend our time this way?

L wrote, “If there WERE an ‘anti-SAHM movement’ that sought to pressure women back into the fulltime work force regardless of their personal choices, I truly think most liberal women would avidly join forces with their conservative counterparts to oppose it.”

Heh. Remember Hillary Clinton and her, “I have better things to do than stay at home and bake cookies” remark? During Billy Jeff’s first campaign for Pres. She was playing to her base, of course, not considering how offensive her words were to those in “fly-over country.”

Liberals and Lefties like Hillary were the source of the anti-SAHM movement beginning in the 1960s. Traditional Catholic authors, in an effort to counteract the pressure during that period, often wrote of the importance of mothers being at home and raising their families. But the feminist authors, and the sympathetic mainstream media of the time - magazines and newspapers, TV, radio, movies, more and more pitched the idea that SAHMs were missing out on the groovey fun going on at the office. That they were nowheresville. That you have to get with the times; get a job!

And, of course, many women did. And pretty soon, if a more Lefty lib type woman encountered a SAHM, the SAHM was often excoriated for being “anti-feminist”, “reactionary”, for “making it harder for women to liberate themselves.” Either to her face, or behind her back. Or both.

I remember. I grew up during this period - the 70s and 80s. I listened to my Mom and her friends in the hood talking about their experiences; read the newspapers and magazines. And I went to college, and studied under some of these . . . specimens.

It was awful.

It takes guts to be a Marine. And in our society, since the 1960s and the Progressive Ascendancy, it takes guts to be a traditional woman, including a SAHM.

Whoops, Sorry Simcha. I was composing my response while you posted your most recent one, and clicked on mine before I saw or read your most recent one.

I will respect your implicit request from here on.

Oh, sorry, Marion - I actually kind of regretted that as soon as I posted it, but it seemed weasley to delete it.  Write whatever you want!  I’m just feeling cranky.

No, Simcha! This is your blog. I appreciate the opportunity to particpate in discusstions with you and your other guests.

I’ll grab a cup of coffee, find a quiet corner, and put my feet up and relax and enjoy others’ conversations for a while. And then later on, when the time seems right, will jump back in.

The Musician Says: could you please not bring opera into this and conflate it with left-wing OR right-wing snobbery?  We are trying quite hard to combat the infuriating ‘elitist’ stereotype ourselves.  Thanks!  (BTW, the Met may very well be broadcasting on a screen near you…)

“could you please not bring opera into this and conflate it with left-wing OR right-wing snobbery?  We are trying quite hard to combat the infuriating ‘elitist’ stereotype ourselves”

If you will write that up as a libretto, score it, and get Dame Kiri - accompanied by the orchestra of the Academy of Saint Martin’s in the Fields - to perform it, I will see what I can do.

Dan, Simcha is a writer.  That means that she writes about things.  I’m sorry that this is so very disturbing to you.

Meredith wins.

@Jeh,
I’ve always considered myself a SAHM, but the fact is, I’ve held a job at different points (as I do now). Somehow I don’t think I fit Amanda’s vision of working Mom. I still home school, I still wear an apron, cook and sew. If you asked me what I did, I’d say I’m a SAHM…oh yeah, I work second shift as CNA too. Right now I do it because I’m able to donthe other stuff before I go to work. If the time comes I can’t do that, I’ll quit.
I think Amanda believes children are never a priority over a mother’s selfishness, which is always apparent in her pro-choice rants.

Pansy, you bring up a good point, about labels. I was a SAHM for many years, and never called myself one, because it seemed too misleading. Sure, I was at home, but I don’t believe motherhood is central to who I am as a person, and my kids were never my only priority. It seemed like a very inaccurate description for me. “Housewife” didn’t cut it, either.

So I called myself a “homemaker” because it seemed like a more comprehensive word and was a much less child-focused description of all that I did—and even years after I went back to work fulltime, I still call myself that. If you look me up in the directory of my graduate school, you will see that I put “homemaker” down as occupation. I am indeed a homemaker, I just happen to work outside the home, too.

...and isn’t arguing over whether or not there are “mommy wars” kind of like arguing whether or not there’s global warming, in that instead of impartially looking to see if there are real problems that can be addressed, it’s easier to just blame the whole thing on a liberal conspiracy and dismiss it out of hand?

OKAY I’LL SHUT UP NOW! (runs to room, slams door behind her, puts on her iPod)

I do not long for the return of the traditional home. Let it be gone forever. Women set out to free themselves - quite strangely - by fleeing the relative comfort and ease of the home and condemning themselves to the same lives of drudgery their men were forced to live by social expectation. In so doing, they doubled the workforce and thus halved wages for all of us. Now few women can afford the privileged, fanciful lifestyle of the stay-at-home mother. I guess they have the same options now as they did before; only now the options are even less appealing to them. What were women thinking? Each married woman had a comfortable home, funded by her own private slave who labored the field each day and returned home to offer, on bended knee, monetary tribute to his own personal goddess, the woman who was the very summary of his pathetic existence. Now look at you women! With sweaty brow, worn eyes, and saddened lips you are reduced to the life of the ordinary man. Thank you. Having been born just before the dawn of third wave feminism, I assure you, I believe firmly in equality, and I do not think you deserve to live better lives than I do. I am, however, astonished at your collective stupidity, for women are remarkably shrewd, and it seems to me your sex made an idiotic move when it entered the workforce. For centuries men dreamed of leaving the workforce for a life of leisure; women left leisure for a life of work.
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Well, don’t worry, ladies. Men are idiots. Whatever you want, men are going to comply. They have no dignity. They have no self-respect. Their souls aren’t their own; they’re yours. They may not be wage slaves any longer but they are always slaves at heart. You own them. So if women today are beginning to agitate for the return of the traditional marriage, we are all most assuredly going to get it, and in just a short amount of time. (This is why the notion of male domination is, apart from unusual cases, such a load of crap: who but a retard thinks men are really the strong and dominant sex? Please. We all know who’s running this circus.)
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As for me, whatever the world does, I love this world of equality, and am grateful to live in it, even though women are still ‘more equal’ than men. I know to whom I owe my praises: thank you, feminism, for freeing me to be more than a wage slave. Thank you for giving me back my dignity. Thank you for affirming my humanity. Thank you for showing me that ‘man’ is indeed synonymous with ‘human’ and that I deserve to be more than a slave. Ladies, whatever you got goin’ on right now, it ain’t my problem. Good luck.

The political platform of Bolshevism (who brought us the Soviet Revolution in 1918) included things social changes unheard of in the rest of the civilized world:

Women to be freed from “domestic slavery” - into the factories and offices of the New Russia!

Legal abortion available on demand for the Women Workers of the New Russia

Official Sanction for homosexual relationships

Any of this sound familiar?

Why is the value of SAHM a conservative versus a liberal issue.  I am a liberal SAHM (I live in Berkeley for pete’s sake) but I love my nouveau traditional family life just as Ms. Fisher describes it.  I am immensely grateful to my husband for his willing work to provide me the space to raise our kids and he is very grateful that I keep our house, grow veggies and take care of all the bills and finances.  I had a career before and will again and I love my kids. 

The conservative v. liberal debate about the value of a parent at home is a red herring. I’d rather be talking about why we have to have 2 incomes to pay the bills and keep a roof over our heads rather than having a bit of space to invest in our children, our homes and our communities.

Sarah,
As a Mill Valley Mom, (SF Bay area) I get what your are saying and agree with what you are saying.  Women stopped being liberated when “the simple life” became a luxury instead of an option, because of greed.  I don’t identify myself as liberal or conservative because labels can be so misleading. What I tell my children is that “everything good in life is an affirmation of love”.  I identify myself with whatever cause promotes this.  The only reason why I can’t say I am liberal is that I know with all my heart that future generations will look upon us with curiosity and horror as the generations that presided over the “slaughter of the innocents”. Abortion seems to be one of cornerstones of so called “liberalism” .  When did are hearts become so hard?  There has to be a better way to exist humanely.

Perhaps that “50s home” is purely the creation of television screenwriters.  I grew up in one, and all my memories are identical to what Simcha says is true of her home today. In our home, Mom received a portion of the paycheck (which increased as Dad’s income increased over the years) and not only created the home inhabited by herself, her husband, and her three sons, but ~she~ saved from it and invested it.  The portion Dad adinistered went for “guy” stuff like the car, tools, etc.  Big purchases (car, major appliances, etc.) were the subject of marital discussions and evaluations, from which we boys learned our first lessons in marital economy.
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When the boys were gone from the home, Mom became bored, and so she entered the public workplace—menial jobs, or rather jobs judged menial by the feminists.  But, it gave her something to do (mostly what she’d been doing for 30 years) and some extra income (which she didn’t need but most certainly knew how to wisely invest).  And, when Dad retired, so did she, because now there was time and money (they were both thrifty and prudent in their investments) to run around the world two or three times a year.
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To this day her sons and grandsons call her blessed.  And, unlike those women whose labors are forever unknown by faceless stockholders, Mom’s beneficiaries think of her fondly whenever they encounter continuing blessing from her labors.

I don’t feel feminism helped women in all aspects of their lives. Feminists in the seventies encouraged women to forego marriage and having children.  Feminists said career was the answer to everything. Many of those women are now bitter; they lost their wonderful careers in the Great Recession, and are working low paid jobs, with no family or spouse to go home to. They are old and alone. I feel very sorry for them.

I am sure you will love <a >memorableparty</a>  to your friends