Well stated!

Pope John Paul II wisely stated in Evangelium Vitae, “We get the public officials we deserve. Their virtue – or lack thereof – is a judgment not only on them, but on us.”

Given the moral relativism rampant in today’s culture, I’d say this holds true today. Let us all strive to be worthy of the kind of leader we would like to have, and pray for the one we have now.

One of the best posts I’ve read today!

Good stuff today! I actually felt better about Romney’s loss than I thought I would have. And I think that is because of everything you mentioned. A win for the other 49% would not have changed a thing in our culture.

You made my day, Matthew, and put things in perspective.  Thank you!

Agree:  cultural values need to change; however, you may have underestimated the political climate, and its leadership, which I believe you stated:  as changing minds.  The political climate has changed many minds, particularly among Catholics.  Class warfare is a hook, line, and sinker, and The Catholic Church started making a stand—when?  The Catholic Church failed to lead, and the country has been bled for over 40 years, and you cry about a lack of leadership against those whom destroyed so many freedoms.  Great.  Take the stand.  But your butt was kicked a long time ago.  And the most people are saying about The Catholic Church in terms of leadership, as it limps along with the noose of materialism, and humanism, and modernism tangling from its marketed neck, is—why now?  No guts.  No glory.

I had this exact same conversation this morning.  Glad that I’m not alone in my thinking.

VERY well said!  Now is the time to continue catechizing and evangelizing with urgency and purpose.  To bring Christ into the equation and not politicians!

I agree to a certain point, but not entirely.  One problem I see is that there are some people who are conservative in their own personal lives, but they still vote for liberal candidates. 
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I’m not entirely sure why this happens, but on social issues I think the thinking is along the lines of “I think abortion is wrong, but I don’t think the government should get involved in other people’s medical decisions.”  Or “I don’t think that homosexual unions are the best idea, but who am I to impose that view on people who love each other and just want to formalize that love?”
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In other words, even among those who at least somewhat *agree* with us on these fundamental issues, there are those who just aren’t determined to vote in a way that is consistent with their personal moral convictions.  I think that this is largely due to the insidious problem of relativism, which seems to be a very difficult idea to root out of our culture.
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A similar problem exists with fiscal issues too, where even if a person is conservative with their own personal finances, they may be tempted to vote for a candidate who promises more government spending, because that voter may benefit personally from that government spending.  This is a tough problem to solve, because it is very hard for fiscal conservatives to compete with fiscal liberals, when the fiscal liberals are indirectly buying people’s votes with their liberal policies.
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So I am much less hopeful than you seem to be, but I do agree that changing the culture is more important than changing politics, and I agree that there is some relation between the two.
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But I would also point out that the relationship can go both ways.  For example, would we have such an epidemic of divorce in our culture if politicians in most states had not enacted “no-fault” divorce legislation several decades ago?  I think we would still have a large divorce problem, but probably not quite as bad.  It’s hard to say for sure though.

Thanks, Matthew.  This is beautiful and essential.

Some good points however I don’t think we are necessarily prideful just because we are discouraged.

Well said and thank you for uplifting my heavy heart.

I don’t live in USA, I live in Spain, but your comment is one of the most clear and realistics I have read. It applies 100% to Spain and Europe where al our christian tradition is being wasted and forgotten.
Thanks

Amen and amen! Thanks for putting such wisdom into words today - it helped me a lot!

I wept for our country, not because of being prideful. I wept out of sorrow for this country and the grievous woes that are in store for this country because of the attitude that those who voted for the president again.  I wept because my heart breaks because for those who will suffer under the unjust laws under this president.  My heart weeps because voting the president back for a second term basically has given a message to God which is; “Go away, we don’t need you!”  God have mercy on us!

This is exactly it Matthew! You are right on the money! Obama won by using the most classic marketing technique there is. He found out what the people wanted and gave it to them. It turns out the majority weren’t interested in the economy, joblessness, or failed foreign policy enough to sway the vote. Abortion, gay marriage, and “lady parts” won the day. But only for a little over half! And not because those were the important issues. Those weren’t the issues of integrity, hope, and lasting stability. They weren’t issues of leadership. They were issues of popularity. But, this also shows us where we need to focus our evangelization efforts. Here is the battle ground. Here is where we need to impact the culture and change hearts and minds.

Amen brother.
And on those same lines of personal holiness being all that matters, I have been thinking of a confessional piece I need to submit to the world entitled “It’s All My Fault.”
If it’s true that women made the difference in this election, and if it’s true that there are now more unmarried women in this country than married, and that the majority of women who did vote for Obama are the “Julia’s” who want the state to take care of them, then I have not done my job.  I have not been a joyful wife, mother, & Christian, as a witness to change hearts - my marketing was off-message.  I have not moved the needle of public opinion on what it means to be a servant of God, a faithful wife, and a dedicated homeschooling mom.  I have not gone door-to-door to pass out & explain “Mulieris Dignitatem.”  I have not provided a chicken in every pot to my sisters in need, and I’ve left them prey to the state. 
While personal holiness is our goal, faith without works is dead.  I agree - let’s get to work!

Thought we were gonna fight, but nice talkin to you.

My view is simple, what your saying is exactly why the world is upside down because your beliefs you are trying to force upon others who do not believe this. Your groups say homosexuals are sinners yet where is that in the bible , you say a life begins at conception but should that be an issue when you are against contraception and the earth is over crowded and that there is no such thing as evolution even though science has proved otherwise. I think people of faith need to read and understand the words they preach about like acceptance of others of different faith. This election should teach you all 1 lesson that your fore fathers who founded the United States made it known that there should be a separation of church and state and 50% of America elected to have that separation for the greater good. I have a feeling this message will not be posted because it dont say what needs to be understood.

@Matthew and @ LisaKearns- you both took the words RIGHT OUT OF MY MOUTH!!  All of us women have to band together in whole-heartedly pursuing deep, personal sanctification in order to be vivid true witnesses to the Gospel in THIS world.  None of us can afford to be solely contemplative or solely active.  We HAVE TO BE BOTH, right here, right now.  Indeed, faith without works is dead… and both faith and our works have to be wedded together in such a way as to be vibrant, deeply rooted and expressive/demonstrative in the way that only a woman can be.

May we all offer the sanctification/conversion of our own lives and the lives of our families for the conversion of our nation… our Patria (fatherland)!!! Amen!!

Here’s what we individually, personally need to do. No government can do this, nor would the present Administration do it even if it could. This is our job: Engage when people tell lies or repeat untruths about the Church, about abortion, about sodomy characterized as “marriage”. Evangelize. Keep your faith visible, in your overtly religious behaviors (signing yourself with the Cross and saying grace before meals when you are in restaurants would be a good start) and in your everyday life. When they say, “Jesus loves everybody” say, “That’s true, but he hates sin. Remember what his last words were to the woman caught in adultery (and they would have been said to the man too—if you doubt it, what did he say about men who look at women with lust?)”. Be glad for the opportunity to witness to Truth, and don’t miss the opportunity.

The cross is no heavier today than it was on Monday, November 5. We still have to pick it up and follow Him. Some have been putting their faith in fallible human beings, thinking it would be easier to have someone in the government do the job of restoring moral behavior. Wrong. As the GySgt used to say, being successful comes from doing simple things, not easy things. The easy path is where the land mines are.

Kevin in Ontario: Have you actually read the Bible? From Genesis through the Letters of St. Paul, it says that homosexual behavior is a sin. As to being sinners, we are ALL sinners. Nobody is singling out people with same-sex attraction as if they were the only sinners. Life is always an issue. People get extremely upset about capital punishment, but abortion is the capital penalty imposed on a helpless, innocent human being. Where is your outrage about that? The earth is not overcrowded, but I doubt you have taken the time and the trouble to figure that out. Most Christians see no conflict between faith and reason, between faith and science. Separation of church and state is nowhere in the Constitution; the First Amendment was put in place to keep government out of religion, you know. I think YOU need to read and understand the words you preach about tolerance. You would see that you are as intolerant as any of the (mostly made-up/imaginary) people you criticize. Oh, and I should point out—nobody has deleted your message.

I wish this would have been said before the elections. I have to admit, sometimes I feel like Catholic issues become front and center in politics and only push people away from making the smart vote, the one that won’t spend all their money on social programs. If Catholics thought Abortion was going to disappear by voting for Romney, they were sorely mistaken. Abortion will only be obliterated by personal, face-to-face conversion—by doing, by ministering, by example. When we make a campaign ABOUT our morality, about Abortion, we lose economically and politically. I saw too many liberals worried about Women’s Rights when that was never an issue to begin with… Stand up for what you believe in when you’re talking with your kids or having lunch with a friend or making new friends—show them what love means and then vote for what you know in your heart is right. Arguments. In-your-face campaigning. Doesn’t cut it. Even worse, is the Catholic who will yell at Catholics for not voting for Romney, who will judge and condemn and blame the entire loss on Catholics who voted elsewhere. There is too much pain the world to not have compassion, to not love and show respect. That person will not win hearts to the Pro-Life vote. Have I been discouraged this election year? Yes, but God is my hope. And that is the bottom line.

Why does the Catholic church care if non-Catholics divorce or gay marry? How does in any way affect your faith or your marriage?

@Bill Where as I respect your view but I have read the bible as I was raised Roman Catholic so I guess we maybe reading 2 different versions of it but I would like to point out the Earth is over crowded as many scientist have pointed out all you have to do is search it on google but what you may not understand is the US is becoming a more diverse country with people immigrating from all over the world so does that mean they are expected to convert to your religion or believe in your beliefs??? Climate change is real and praying for it to go away is not going to happen this is not god made its man made. But 1 thing on your religion and that bigotry and discrimination will not bring people together but rip them apart we do not live in the 12th century anymore where the church ruled the state this is the modern world so you can accept and adapt or just crawl up into your bubble and pray for a miracle that will never happen

@Bill oh I forgot where you said gay relationships are a sin in the bible have you read the old version you know the one that came first there is no mention of it that was added in by man not god and if you want facts on religion I suggest the documentry Religulous by Bill Maher it really shows some truths.

....yes! and people must not forget that politics has a pivotal role in gov function, and there is a right and effective way to the system of politics, that is, in staying damn small, rather than turning into the GOD STATE.

We are held accountable as a people to allow for such pathetic fools as Obama to somehow get to become leaders of the State. By Pathetic i certainly mean the very reality of their stance on such core issues of “society”, like the family-and implementing rash laws against its citizens. The country does certainly begin at home, and that is why I am starting a new one. One that kicks out perpetrators like the state out of our personal lives, and fights the gov to become the size it ought to be…...the size of a pea.

Matthew is basically saying what Christ said 2000+ years ago.  Here are the rules… Live by them.

Once Catholics start to live by them, others will follow.   

I have two beautiful words for parents out there…Catholic homeschooling.

Make the changes you need to in your life to teach them how to live an authentic Catholic life.

Thank you for this great article, Matthew.  I’m glad you quoted Mother Teresa on discouragement.  It hit home.  You are right about people’s hearts having to change.  I think that’s where the Church comes in and our bishops and priests need to be more bold. I feel discouraged not only for my country but for the Church.  I’m going thru a spiritual crisis because I’m disappointed with my diocese and parish.  The last good homily I heard (besides EWTN) was over a year ago when a young priest from the Fathers of Mercy came to our mission.  It’s ashamed I have to depend on EWTN to hear a good homily that explains Scripture with what’s going on in the culture.  Once again, thanks for this article.

Kevin in Ontario,

Jesus said, marriage was between a man and a woman. I do not need to watch some atheists telling me that, “Thursday is better than Wednesday, because it’s Thursday.” There is nothing modern about the modern world.
Do some historical reading on ancient Greece or Rome.

Good post, and good advice.
Kevin-Ontario, I’m really not trying to be snarky, but do you base your understanding of Catholic theology and practice on what Bill Maher says? From what I’ve heard from his mouth, I think Mr. Maher may be a touch one-sided. If you are really interested, you could get a copy of the Catechism (heck, it’s probably free online somewhere), and/or talk to a priest and get a non-Maher point of view.
Thanks, and looking forward to an interesting few years!

Very well put, Matt.  You are correct that historically, politics are not typically the change drivers.

The big concern is that what typically is the change driver is not simply “cultural change” but “cultural change following cultural collapse”.

The Old Testament is replete with that cycle.  You rarely see the prophets being listened to until Israel hits rock bottom.  What did Judah learn from Israel being wiped out?  Nothing!  They eventually got wiped out, too.

And in the rest of history, you almost never see a culture in a downward spiral that manages to see where they are heading and pull themselves out of it.

So while I totally agree that electing this person or that is not going to be the ultimate fix, history shows us that we don’t pull up until it is too late.  The phoenix rises from ashes, not from the flames, and sadly, cultures seem to be the same way.

Obama won on the demographics.  As one GOP fundraiser said, Latinos may have been disillusioned by Obama, but they were absolutely terrified of Romney.  So by a margin of more than 70% of the Latino (largerly RC vote) went to Obama.  The African-American vote went to Obama, 55% of women voted for Obama, 74% of Asians voted for Obama, overwhelmingly voters under the age of 40 voted for Obama.  RCs by a margin of 52%-45% voted for Obama.  Jews supported Obama by about 80% (Jews are the “Ohio of ethnic groups. 90% of Jews are registered voters & of that 90%, 96% vote).  Who voted for Romney—angry old uneducated white guys. And they are no longer a majority in the US.  The GOP put forth a candidate who failed to articulate any reason, much less any compelling reason, why he should be POTUS. The GOP put forth a candidate thye did not much like.  Romney, the former Gov of Mass was overwhelmingly rejected in Mass.  Paul Ryan was overwhelming rejected as VP in his home state of WI. Illinois on the other overwhelmingly embraced Obama as a favorite son.  The GOP will continue to fail as long as it alientes the vast majority of women, young people and fast-growing population segments—Latinos, African-Americans and Asians.  Just in looking at the videos of each campaign rallies and gatherings the stark difference was very apparent.  Romney rallies were filled with older white people.  Obama rallies were packed with young people, with women, and with lots and lots of people of color.  Obama ran a smarter, more articulate, more honest, more postive campaign.  And it showed on Nov 6th.

White House is two words. Good idea, take a good look in the mirror, decide what you believe and keep it to yourself.

This was spot on.  Thank you for putting it all in perspective for us.  I will link post this in my blog as I speak of the same ideas.  God bless you.

Kevin, Bill Maher is a comedian. He is not a historian, a Bible scholar, or a theologian, and he makes no claims to be such. He does say he is an atheist and makes it very clear that he has no use for religions or those of us who believe in God. I’m afraid his movie is really not a good presentation of his views (other than his disdain) and it is not even a credible criticism of religion, since it is full of misinformation, distortion, and outright fabrication. I don’t know what “earlier version” of the Bible you are referring to. The prohibition against “being with another man as with a woman” is in the oldest written versions we have, and was not added later. The same is true for St. Paul’s condemnation of homosexual behavior between men and women.

There are many things that everyone agrees are wrong. No need to convert anybody on those matters. Nobody is forcing you to return to the Church. However, the reasons for opposition to calling homosexual partnerships “marriages” are not strictly religious. Do a little more reading—you may still disagree, but at least you will understand what the objections are to changing the legal definition of marriage. I don’t think you are as well-informed as you think you are.

Just to wrap this up, I never mentioned global warming. Personally I have no doubt that global warming is really happening. I also have no doubt that evolution is one of the mechanisms by which the various species have come to be,, although Darwin and others who say there is no Creator or that a Creator is not necessary are wrong. But that’s a long discussion, and I need to go to supper.

The enemy is decades ahead of us and currently has control of every major cultural influence. Then again,  with God, David can easily take down Goliath. As long as he doesn’t try to do it on Goliath’s preferred terms.

Gee, Matthew, I didn’t find your thoughts so uplifting, though I’m sure you meant well. I don’t depend on politicians to cure the ills of society.  More likely, they cause the problems and ills.  Your call for the transformation for our American culture is a good one.  On the other hand, what do you think MANY of us have been doing over the years?  It’s been challenging and hard, though there have been victories along the way.  Many of us are doing our “culture war” work without the support of some Priests & Bishops.  I’m tired!  I’ll pick myself up and go forward with God.  I would appreciate a word of gratitude for us “culture warriors.”

Kevin, Bill Maher is a comedian. He is not a historian, a Bible scholar, or a theologian, and he makes no claims to be such.

So looks like the joke is on you, Kevin. 

And please:  while no-one is forcing you to return to the Church, stop thinking that the ol’ “I was raised Roman Catholic, so I know all about Catholicism, so there!” canard is actually a coherent argument.  Especially given that any person who has ever left the Catholic Church and come home knows and has learned how painfully presumptuous it is to think that being “born and raised Catholic,” having gone to Catholic school all one’s life, having “received all the Sacraments,” going to Mass every Sunday and just “doing Catholic things” is enough to make anyone a truly practicing Catholic.  And that’s based on fundamental, basic Church teaching about what Catholics actually believe about the relationship between God and man, and their logical consequences.  Even the well-formed cradle-Catholic, convert, or revert, based on the basic Catholic understanding of Who God is (i.e. the very essence of what it is To Be) knows that “faith seeking understanding” is necessarily a life-time endeavor, and takes all of one’s self—heart, mind, body, and soul.  And one can go as deep as and as broad as one wants. In fact, doubt is not an indication that one should turn away, but an invitation to go deeper.  I recently read someplace that what the authentic Christian shares with the atheist or agnostic is the willingness to shed childish and inaccurate—and thus limited—ideas, views, and understandings of God.

But if you want to convince us that you’re right and the Church is wrong, try coming up with better arguments, preferably ones that actually engage what the Church teaches and what the Church understands herself to be, and which don’t address mere caricatures of the Church, the Bible, Sacred Tradition, or even religion—i.e. arguments that don’t bore us for our having heard them time and time again ad nauseum from every garden-variety atheist who thinks he or she has invented rationality much akin to how every generation thinks it invented sex.  Try again.  If you want to be an atheist, fine.  Nobody’s stopping you—not us, not God, and not His Church.  Belief or not, after all, is a conscious choice.  But at least be a smarter one.

But that would actually involve your being more fluent in history, theology, and philosophy, all of which are meaty disciplines—not “subjects”—and whose breadth and depth and difficulty to truly master is apparent to any intelligent layman with humility enough to realize how vast knowledge actually is (and how much he or she does not know), and barring that, anyone who has ever attempted graduate school (where how much you really do not know will be darned obvious in short order).  And if you know that “Ph.D.” stands for “Doctor of Philosophy,” you will then know that every discipline, including the Sciences, has a philosophy, and that each discipline asks different questions and therefore has different limits.  So I suggest that you get cracking.

With changing demographics, new groups might just be emerging. Ones that are no longer white and Protestant.

Latinos and blacks or asians aren’t exactly more pro-abortion or pro-gay marriage. They just tend to shun rugged individualism, and do not appreciate their hard work to feed their families being classified as laziness.

In fact most immigrants tend to be socially conservative, but politically liberal.

You are an idealist nut. We are done. The tribulation is upon us.

Hi Savvy, I keep hearing how immigrants (esp. latinos) are socially conservative, but how is that they have a 50% illegitmacy rate and 25% abortion rate (which is better than the rate for whites, I do realize)?  I’m not sure what metric people use in asserting this group’s social conservatism.  I guess my point is that many immigrants come to this country and are consumed by the cultural trends here.  They don’t necessarily infuse our culture with pro-life, pro-family values.

Nerina,

People come in all strips.

Chesterton once wrote to a paper that asked the rhetorical question, what is wrong with our society?  His answer to them was (paraphrased) “Dear Sir, You ask what is wrong with our society.  I am.  Respectfully Yours, G. K. Chesterton.”

What a consoling message,I wish i read it last night i wouldn’t have failed to sleep.It is true we are looking for politicians instead of looking for leaders.God help us to look and find good and committed leaders. Thanks Mathew,you have made my evening.

This article more thoroughly articulates the conclusion I reached today. We see in this election the need to evangelize. The need to change hearts. That’s not going to happen unless I start with my own.

Yes we all need to be better Catholics and on fire with the truth of our faith. The problem is that hearts have hardened, and pride has taken over so many of us.  Now truth is lost and the old serpent is at his best. How many Catholics today actually follow every truth? Abortion, homosexuality, birth control; or live the sacraments frequent confession, communion in the state of grace, say the daily rosary, go to adoration, devotions, fasting, abstaining on Fridays…. Really how many are in LOVE with the Lord’s holy Catholic Church? Not many. The world is in darkness. We all know it, feel it… deny it.  History repeats, but more souls than ever before are falling into the eternal fire. This is something to weep about. Not out of pride but true sorrow for the souls we touch and pray for and yet are too hard and obstinate in their pride to empty themselves and become completely obedient to the precepts of the Holy Catholic Church.  How can you convince a person that something is a sin when they don’t believe that obedience to the Catholic Church applies to them?  Or that sin doesn’t really exist?

Change does begin at home. And love is so much stronger than hate; so instead of hating what happened to America yesterday through the election, I am going going to try and spend more time appreciating what my family and I do have here (most importantly each other with God) and I am going to let go of my anger. Thank you for opening my eyes. I have been bitterly waiting for a politician to ‘save’ us, and see now how crazy that is!

Amen Matt!  Well stated.  Thank you for the perspective today.

This is insulting.  It proposes that democrats voted based only on peer pressure,how nice somebody is, by what the media told them, or by what’s socially easy?  Does it not occur to you that we did vote our moral and religious convictions….They just aren’t the same as yours?  My religious convictions tell me that the poor ought to fed and clothed, all people should have access to affordable healthcare, and that even if you don’t agree with someone’s lifestyle choice or country of origin they are still entitled to human rights and equal protection under the law.  With attitudes like this, the catholic church will become as extinct as the republican party will within a generation.  The world is changing.  More than half of catholics vote democrat!

Great article. Thank you.
We need to start the change by reclaiming the hearts and mind of our children. We need to bring them home and instill in them the values we desire and not relegate them to be brainwashed in institution we call school. Public school is the battleground, not an election.

Just look at the statistics for California Props 22 and 87.

God have mercy on our country.

This article is only relevant until our religion becomes illegal, which it will soon.

Rachel—Catholics So agree the poor need to be cared for! The Catholic church is a leader in this effort.  However, with the HHS Mandate, the Catholic charities who feed and clothe and in countless other ways assist the poor will be forced to close.  In its place, you may be left with, well, think Chicago Housing Authority.  The government just does not “do” charity well. Catholics, by the way, were the first to found and build hospitals and are the first to support universal healthcare—that’s probably why the ACA got through—However, the Health and Human Services Kathleen Sibelius was then brought in and the HHS Mandate, violating conscience and religious freedom.  Did you know that Secretary Sibelius tagged abortion as a way to fund the HHS mandate? That is, well, sickening, and serves to epitomize the mandate. As for lifestyle choices, including promiscuity and homosexuality, remember—the Catholic church is not the one imposing anything—this is a government mandate.  The Catholic church does not persecute those who are promiscuous or homosexual, but don’t ask the Catholic church to lie by saying these are lifestyles leading to happiness and social good.  Do not ask the Church to endorse such lifestyles through the HHS Mandate—that is asking the anti-smoking league to pay for your cigarettes (to borrow Janet Smith’s analogy).  The Catholic church was never an institution built to turn with the tides—it is a Church standing with Christ and the Truth and as such endures through persecution and trials.  Unfortunately, the stand of the church is being distorted by those who care, as you do Rachel, about the poor—The Catholic church was working hard on that through her charities—bigger government may be less the “solution” to poverty that it appears… How do you feel about the Chicago Housing Authority at the national level?

I can’t change the government, but I can change myself.  I’m starting right now.

“Does it not occur to you that we did vote our moral and religious convictions….They just aren’t the same as yours?”

I second that remark.  Over half the Catholics voted democrat and I’m sure that on the state level, they also voted to leave gays alone.

Society is evolving and moving in a direction of tolerance and acceptance of those who don’t believe everything that we believe.

Rachel and Sue,

I believe the same things you list, only that my religion doesn’t tell me it should all be done by the federal government. I tolerate those who don’t believe everything that I do; what I don’t tolerate is the government telling me I must violate my conscience or face penalties.

I believe everyone is entitled to equal protection under the law. What I don’t accept is the government telling me that I must accept and even support a self-destructive lifestyle and say it is the equivalent of marriage. This more than “leaving gays alone.” 

Has it ocurred to you that perhaps it is the liberals who are intolerant?

Excellent article! Thank you. Here’s another quote from Mother Teresa (and also one from her good friend, Fr. John A. Hardon)... http://adorationrocks.posterous.com/166971716

I agree with this post - to a point- but I think it doesn’t do the Both-And aspects of our Faith justice. We have a Social Doctrine of the Church which is every bit as important as all the other Doctrines- they exist to be studied, learned, lived.  Political campaigns are about educating as well as marketing. The debates are all about putting forth the facts and logical arguments to convince the unconvinced and motivate those who say Amen- to help you help the common good on the political-legal fronts.

I think you are underestimating the value of the bully pulpit opportunities that come with our political process. We had some long encounters with Romney and Obama- in their convention speeches, their interviews, their debates, their advertisements.  They had a lot of face time with the American public- but what did they focus on? What did they try to educate us about? If all of that time in front of us is of so little importance for our collective understanding of things- then I would say that blogging and lecturing in classrooms is not worth the effort either.

I mean what if Romney had spent a huge chunk of his time passionately and factually trying to educate and convert as many Americans as possible to a reasonable pro-life, Culture of Life conviction to be applied to our political and legal systems? What we got was a whole lot of data and passion on negotiable issues relating to economic theory and practice. People didn’t make the decision on Romney v. Obama on the basis of Culture of Life v. Culture of Death- they made the decision based on their preferred view of the role of government in the economy- say FDR v. more Libertarian beliefs. If it is “the Economy, Stupid” then that approach is too shortsighted and difficult to see which theory is truly morally superior.

We do need vibrant evangelical work in every aspect of our cultural lives- politics is a great place to evangelize the social doctrine of our Church- which the popes teach is an integral part of the call to evangelize- signifying that it is inherently part of the Good News of Jesus Christ. Jesus is Lord of every part of us, and every part of our society- to include our political work and activism.

When people talk about gay marriage, why can’t we be honest about the harm that the sexual acts involved in sodomy cause? There is a reason why the actions have been called perverse by most societies throughout history.  Not only is it a sterile act in terms of procreation, but it leads to disease and even death.  My father, a doctor, has told me about all kinds of really sad cases of gay-bowel disease and other afflictions that we rarely hear discussed.  People are all for showing the deterioration of the lungs caused by smoking, but what of all the venereal diseases caused by living as though sex is merely for recreation anywhere, with anyone, and anyway. It saddens me to know that the relative permissiveness toward homosexuality by the general population is probably hastened by the number of people who indulge in pornography in secret and so feel hypocritical condemning other people’s lewd proclivities. The prohibitions and assertions for moral living given through faith aren’t randomly made up.  They are given by One who knows and loves us and wants us to be happy.  He gave us the owner’s manual for our bodies and our souls.  If we choose to ignore what it tells us, we will break down.

Rachel said “the catholic church will become as extinct as the republican party will within a generation”. The Catholic Church will never become extinct. You have the promise of it’s founder Jesus Christ. Do not take an ethnocentric view of the universal Church. The Catholic Church is dramatically increasing in numbers in Africa, South Korea, and underground in China. If it diminishes in the U.S. it will be America’s great loss. St. Paul tells us that the manifold wisdom of God is made known through the church. Political parties and politicians come and they go. But the Catholic Church has outlasted every empire on earth. Think twice please.

The great line by Pope St Pius V of “All the evils of the world are due to lukewarm Catholics.” I know before I reverted I was one to side with those 50% of cino’s that voted for Obama (I like calling him Dear Leader but I won’t do name calling on Fr’s post but just fyi haha) & I was a fan of his & didn’t know why & fell for the Americanism lies of if it doesn’t effect me I don’t care (regarding gay so called marriage & murdering babies).  I was as ignorant a person as you could see & yet called myself a Catholic (I shoulda been whipped ha).  I remember in college the topic of contraception came up & there were 3 cino’s & 1 former then so called atheist in the room & none of us knew except that we said “it was against the religion” yet we would do whatever anyways.  As the article pointed out & many saints mentioned (basically) “look in the mirror” or GK Chesterton saying the best argument against Christianity is Christians. The teachings of the Church are perfect.
To the idea of voting. This election wasn’t going to change anything overnight.  The problem is society is in the sewers & getting worse.  People look at DC for all the answers.  The mindset of governing needs to go back to what is was thought of before as gov’t is most powerful closest to your heart.  Family then neighborhood then county then state then a national one, which is to have almost no power.  Sadly, Obama will have the shot at nominating a 1, 2, or 3 unelected tyrants in the SCOTUS to rule that will be pro abortion judges along with continuing with the mandate, etc.  We need good people to start running for seats in the local & state levels.  Franklin warned during the ratification of the Constitution that avarice & power together will bring rulers to the throne of president (he argued for no pay for the presiding office bc they looked for men of virtue to be in it & this is why people like George Mason did not vote for the Constitution, which is today a dead document, b/c he feared immoral men & non virtuous ones would come later & usurp power to rule). 

The real point is glorify your God and live your life accordingly and let others live theirs - a gay couple marrying does not invalidate your marriage - 2 consenting adults in a stable relationship and raising a family is good for all - if you want less abortion, people need education and access to contraception, not jail.  NOT everyone in this country is Catholic or Christian and our laws separate church and state for a very important reason - so we all live within the laws of society and then police ourselves within the laws of our faith.  God is divine and glorious, organized religion is manmade.

I’m sure I can find something to agree with in perhaps 90% of the posts here this morning, coming in as the aftermath of the great debacle called th “election of 2012.” These are thoughtful, engaged discourses from people who obviously are not your “average American voter.” But something needs to be said about the vile cretin who once again ascended to the leadership position of the freest nation on earth. This person could be the poster child for the antichrist. Notice I didn’t say he IS the antichrist. For I don’t believe he is. (in any case, only time will tell) Has anyone else noticed that, other than “slick Willie” himself, Bill Clinton, NOBODY has the wierd and mysterious “quality” of being able to MIX truth and lie so seamlessly like Hussein Obama? Check it out yourself; read his two autobiographies and dip into some of his speeches and it’s DEFINITELY THERE. Now THAT’S a scary “quality.” 2nd, meditate on his RUTHLESS ANTIPATHY towards UNBORN HUMAN LIFE. Personally, I don’t think I’ve ever heard or seen such animosity towards the helpless unborn before, and certainly not in a politician who’s trying to ingrtiate himself with the “masses.”  In any event, we need the incredible graces from the CO-REDEMPTRIX OF THE HUMAN RACE, Mary most Holy, NOW more than ever before. GOD BLESS ALL, MARKRITE

As this world floats away further from God, there will be increasing devastation.  Just a historical fact that never really gets remembered because of the seduction of the material world. This world is a gift from God, but it often is squandered because of the Fall, mankind’s arrogance and pride.  Vanity of vanities.  The world will twist and turn with the times and the horrendous situtations Man descends to when apart from the God who loves him. Man will bounce back momentarly from time to time.  We are so controlled by our privation.  So, keep the faith and hope in Christ, our bridge to really what is real. Love the best one can, by His Grace. Look to Heaven.

Markrite,

First of all our President’s name is Barack Hussein Obama.  Its the name his parents gave him.  None of us controls what our parents name us.  Our names reflect our parents’ cultures, time in and places ain which they lived.  And I am not certain what you are tyring to say but just ignoring the President’s first name.  And if anything, our President is not a cretin. He is a very very smart man. 
And if anyone mixed lies and truth it was the Etch-A-Sketch Mitt Romney.

Perhaps it might help you to seek out a physician for a Prozac prescription

Very good article. During the campaigning I was very troubled to read and hear all the racist and hateful comments towards our President and his family. I guess folks forget he is as much white as he is black. The nasty comments that came out of “Christian” mouths was horrible. The Christians I know do not talk like that, they do not spew hate and fear in order to “convince” people to see things as they see them. The Karl Roves, Rush Limbaughs, the Kock brothers and the list goes on need to be removed from the election process. I could see through their money, they were trying to buy the Presidency. Until the Republican party gets real, removes hate and rascism from their agenda, becomes an inclusive party, they will continue to lose elections….

Thank you! This is just the kick in the head I needed to get my head on straight and my heart back in the right place.  Jesus I trust in you…

So, you’ve abandoned “both/and” for “either/or”?  “Pray, but don’t work” instead of “pray and work”?  Mary, but not Martha?  No; that is only for the deathbed.

This is so true and to make the change in culture one must make the change of one self and then the world will change. The Curch is Mission by nature so that makes us all Missioners and as Mother Teresa states it begins in the home and after one Loves in the home you can Love out side of the home, you can noit give some thing you do not have. JMJ

RE: Meredith’s statement “if you want less abortion, people need education and access to contraception, not jail”

Not sure how “jail” comes into this argument but let me take your first premise. Since the 60s, in US, UK, Canada and Australia, there has been no lack of “education” and “access” to contraception. Children are “educated” on safe sex and contraception in school as early as age 9; TV and the internet (which teens use for hours at end) offer endless education on these matters; for adult women, the birth control pill is completely and freely accessible everywhere(often free and if paid for, at a cost per annum equivalent to the cost of an IPhone (actually the newest IPhone might cost more). Yet with all this education and access, abortions have not decreased. In China where my family comes from, for over 60 years, since the Communists came to power, there has been plenty of education (ad nauseam) and access (no need to ask, it’s delivered) to contraception. Abortions are certainly “safe and legal” in China; do you truly think they are “rare”? How does your argument work?

“hours on end”.

And the world is not changing in ways that it has not before.  There is nothing new about these things, it’s a march back to Ancient Greece.  The sexual left wants to legislate their morality as “rights” and force others to comply.  In Canada we have seen attacks on parental rights in education and more, because the govt, thinks they know what is best for everybody.

This is the same crowd that yells,“do no impose your values on me”. Also watch the new documentary, Cultural Imperialism: The Sexual Rights Agenda”

It shows how developing countries are being blackmailed and bullied into accepting things that go against their cultures and religions by the sexual left in the West.

http://www.standforfamiliesworldwide.org/sffww/

Savvy,

No one is being bullied into anything.  In the US, all Americans are guaranteed equal rights under the law (the 14th Amendment).  Your comments are the same comments people amde in the 1940s-1970s about racial integration ( and some people still make—see stories about the near racial riot in Oxford, MS on Nov 6th).  Our Constitution is about inclusion, not oprression, exclusion, segregation.  When gay Americans achieve recognition of the right to marry purusuant to our Constitution, it will not affect the RCC, it will not affect straight married people, it will nto destroy Western civilization as we know it.  Notice that the US military is just fine since the repeal of Don’t Ask Don’t Tell, just as the military and society oas a whole survived racila integration.  And yes, its the same issue—its about equal treatment under the law for ALL Americans—not just straight people, not just Christians, not just white people, not just conservatives.  If youw want to live in a society that does not recognize the rights of all its citizens, Perhaps Syria, Egypt, Saudia Arabia, China might be your cup of teas.

If you think that same-sex marriage will destroy Westenr civilization, you must thaink that about 10% of the population is really, really powerful!  Wow!  Who knew gay people were so powerful!!!!  Gay people hold the fate of Western civilization in their hadnds???!!!  Straight people and their greeeeat respect for marriage have no effect on Western civilization—just gay people????

A friend of mine supports marriage equality because she says that gay people have the right to suffer through marriage just like everyone else!  And as comedian Robin William notes—all marriage are same sex marriages.

Bottom line:  currently are marriages (you just stright people) end up in divorce.  If you are worried about marriage, its not gay people who are the threat. Perhaps stright people need to clean up their act re marriage.

Lisa Kaiser,
Good argument.  Straight people wreck marriage too, so why not wreck it more!  It is true that divorce and the resulting emotional wreckage it leaves behind on the affected children is more of a problem as far as the future of our civilization than same-sex marriage.  You do have a good point there.

I don’t view same-sex marriage as something that will destroy civilization.  It is more a signpost that one’s civilization is almost at the end of the road.  Sexual libertinism, as embodied by contraception, divorce, same-sex marriage, and worst of all, abortion, is essentially telling us that the writing is on the wall.  Once it gets to the point of acceptance of acts against nature (basically, any orifice will do) is typically one of the last steps before it all goes down in flames.  Nature gives us a hint here as sodomy is inherently unhealthy.

It’s just a big ROFL that gay marriage is in the Constitution.  Funny that it took 240 years to figure that out.  Marriage has always been considered important by the state throughout history because it gave children a stable environment to grow up in, and yes, children need a father AND a mother, not any two adults.

By the way, why two?  Who’s to say that three people can’t love each other equally?  I can just see it now.  Faux Christians will say that this is more reflective of the Trinity!  And then, four, five, etc.  I don’t see why it should be particularly limited to only two.  I don’t see why those who think that marriage can be a stable relationship among many people who love each other and enjoy each others orifices should be discriminated against.

Savvy,

I did not say that same-sex marriage is in the US Constitution.  What I said was that the 14th Amendment of the US Constitution guarantees all American equal treatment under the law.  Yes, it has taken some time for America to live up to that promise in the 1th Amendment—just ask any older African-American person, ask any older Latino-American person, ask any older Japanese American person who was sent to a camp during WWII, ask any older Jewish American, ask any Native American person.  Ask any of these living people about how long it has taken the 14th Amendment to work for them.

In fact, the polygamous marriage crowd could easily argue that 3+ parents is actually better than 2.  The more, the merrier!  And many hands make light work, etc. etc.

WHEN ALL TV STATIONS (EXCEPT FOR FOX) ARE WITH ONE PRESEDENTIAL CANDIDATE, WHAT DOES THAT MEAN: ARM TWISTING/BLACKMAIL/CONSPIRACY!!!
GOD BLESS.

Savvy,

BTW, the 14th Amendment has not been a part of the Constitution for 240 yrs.  The 13th, 14th, 15th Amendments were added to the Constitution after the Civil War (after 1865).

Lisa, I’m not “Savvy”, but OK, if your argument is based on the 14th Amendment, then I revise “240” to “150”.  Every other word of my post remains the same.

Wow - spin, spin, spin - “we can fix things by praying and forcing our religious ideals on others” -paraphrasing, not quoting - Kills me how evangelicals and Christians can’t see that if we allow any religion to dictate govn’t, one day it won’t be a religion you like or agree with - ask Christians under the Taliban - oh wait, you can’t - they die in that country for being the wrong religion.  SEPARATION OF CHURCH AND STATE IS IMPORTANT for all so that you can practice your religion of choice or no religion at all and we all have the same rights.  And on another note - only thanks to President Obama and the Affordable care act is contraception free and available to all - I truly don’t believe anyone is pro-abortion, just pro-choice - that means that someone that feels they have no other way, can be safe . luckily most of us have never been in a situation to make that choice - personally I have never been raped, molested or in a life or death situation while pregnant and I have a supportive family and insurance so how can I judge someone young, alone, who has been abused and has no resources and thinks that is her only way out.  I don’t believe anyone joyfully has an abortion and anyone that comes to that decision should not be vilified .  Parents, schools, Doctors need to educate children with the reality of sex and contraception and not rely on tv or abstinence - makes my blood boil when people say don’t have sex and you won’t get pregnant—really, cause that is belittling to victims of rape and incest and incredibly naive.  Enjoyable sex not for procreation is not the downfall of society - close minded hypocritical religious zealots are!!

Dave,

Re polygamy, have you read the Bible lately???  Abraham, Jacob, David, Solomon, to name a few had more than one wife.  Solomon is said to have 800 wives.  Although the Torah says that a king is limited to 16 wives!  And the Torah is considered the Word of God. So no, God did not define marriage as between one man and one woman.  Just syaing, the Bible may not be the best source to quote if you think that marriage is between one man and one woman.

Dave,

Sorry I called you Savvy.  Its getting harder and harder to tell one right wing extremist from another.  While you all may not look alike, you all do sound alike.

Najib,

Fox News is the home of right wing extremeist nut jobs.  On Nov 6th, Karl Rove on Fox News woud not admit that Obama ahd won the elctoral votes in Ohio.  Ther is no “arm twistin, blackmail or conspiracy”.  Networks do not vote.  People vote.  And the people voted for Obama—-its called democracy

Excellent insight and counsel!  Although, I believe that Mitt Romney would have proven to be the leader brought about by the culture of those who voted for him.  So, onward with idividuals leading by their good examples and reviving our national culture to what our founders envisioned.  They had no idea that the morals and values of our urban populations would ever differ so blatantly from those of our more rural citizens.  Just look at the county-by-county electoral map.

I agree with everything you say. However I do think that we can’t be invoulved in politics. I remember a song about why is’t God fixing things. The answere went something like this. We are his hands, We are his feet, We are his voice, If not now then when. If we are going to make a differenc in the world we must live in the world, but not be of the world. I am going to pray for Cod’s leading and with that be prepared to be led. I intend to continue to be invoulved in the political scene. If the Obamas and the liberals are defeated it will create a better enviorment for Christianty to flourish. The bible doesn’t say for use to live with our heads in the dirt. I can’t seperate my spiritual life foom my everday life including my political life.

Lisa,
Right, so do you think we should extend marriage rights to as many people as want to sign up together or not?  If not, why not?  How about people who just want to be married for some other reason, whether it be financial, etc.?  The questions I am trying to get at here are “what is marriage?” and “why does the state have an interest in marriage?”

It is true that, as Jesus said, God permitted some things in earlier times, because He was revealing truth gradually, as they could accept it.  Jesus said that marriage is between one man and one woman, though, and that was always the original intent (see Mark 10 and Matthew 19).  Almost all world societies have come to the same idea, regardless of religion.

Meredith,
Separation of Church and state is not in the Constitution.  It’s merely part of a private letter by Thomas Jefferson.  Look it up.  Anyway, what Jefferson meant was that government should not intrude in religion, nor would government establish a particular denomination as the official state church (which is basically what IS in the Constitution.)  One thing the separation of church and state DOESN’T mean is that we must accept a “Lowest Common Denominator” morality.

Micahel Hudson,

We live int he USA—which is not a Christian nation.  We are a people of diverse faith traditions.  We are a better nation because some of us are Jews, Muslims, Buddhists, Sikhs, Hindus, Jains, etc.  We would be be a lesser nation if it was home to only one faith tradition.

Obama in the White House does not stop Christianity (or your version of it) from flourishing. And what version of Christianity do you think should flourish?  The Mormon version?  Mormons contend that they are Christians.  The Billy Graham version?  The Oral Roberts version?  The Greek Orthodox version?  The Russian Orthodox version, The Roman Catholic version?  The penecostal version?  The snake handler version?  The Methodist version?  The African Methodist Episcopal version?  The Lutheran Evangical version?  The Joel Osteen version?  The Anglican version? 

Do you want to outlaw the pracitce of Judaism, Islam, Buddhism, etc in the US so Christianity can “flourish”?  Should Americans who are not Christians be denied the full protection of the US Constitution? 

Lisa - if you’d actually read about the wives of Abraham, Jacob, David, Solomon, and others, you’d see that polygamy only ever made problems for them. God never directed or authorized marriages to additional wives. But like any other sin committed by Adam’s children, God didn’t let it interfere with his plans and lessened the harm by giving blessings to those it hurts most. (BTW, Abraham only ever had one WIFE at a time, didn’t marry his second until after Sarah had died; but he did sleep with Sarah’s slave-girl to produce Ishmael. Which certainly isn’t a decision praised in the Bible.)

Dear Lisa,
Calling them names does not change the fact of the matter.  Journalism is not supposed to hide the truth; rather, expose it and expose the lies.

On the other hand, what people did or do is something that is not a issue.  What is important is what God said.  Jesus said in Matthew 19:5, ‘For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh.’  That means one man and one woman.  Jesus went on to talk about the perpetuality of marriage.  That also confirms that marriage is between one man and one woman.  God bless.

Colleen

Yes God di authorize polygamy.  Deuteronomy is very clear that God authorized kings to have up to 16 wives.  Genesis is very clear that Jacob was permitted to have two wives—Rachel and Leah.  abraham is not condemned by God for having Hagar as a concubine.  When Sarh forces Abraham to expel Hagar and Isahmael, God promises that the descendant of Ishamale would become a great nation (Islam). Please go back and read.

Najib,

American journalism, except for Fox News, is about truth. The best sources are CNN, NPR, PBS.  Give them a try if you have not already.

If the RCC wants to marry only women to men and men to women that is fine.  But our broader and thankfully secualr society is not governed by any one faith tradition.

Dave,

What Jefferson calls separation of church and state is codified in the First Amendment of the Constitution—what is called the Establishment Clause.  American government is spearate from any faith tradition.  So thankfully, the USA will not become an RC theocracy.  If you want to live in aplace where there is not separation of church and state, then Saudia Arabia, Iran, Afghanistan, Yemen, Egypt, Syria, Pakistan, Vatican City—all should be paradise for you.

“What I don’t accept is the government telling me that I must accept and even support a self-destructive lifestyle and say it is the equivalent of marriage.”

The voters in those states have chosen to accept gays. The government does what the voters dictate.  That’s democracy.

Your attitude that it is a self-destructive lifestyle (where’s your proof?) or that you have to support it somehow (do you mean like you have to support people on welfare? What support are you being required to supply?)just shows your ignorance and insensitivity. How do gays affect you in any way whatsoever?

You want to discriminate against a minority.  You’re in the minority now.  How does it feel?

Gay Americans pay taxes, gay Americans support the tax code’s support of staright marriage.  Straigt married Americans are able to have Social Security survivors benefits.  Why should taxpaying gay Americans be denied amrriage and denied the ability to have Social Security survivors benefits—when employed gay Americans pay into the Social Security system?  Why should gay Americans support the marriage of stright people via our tax code and but straight Americans not support the marriage of gay people via our tax code?

Same-sec marriage is not “the lowest denominator morality”.  Some of you go on and on about how marriage is good is good for society.  If its good for straight people, its good for gay people. Recognizing the constitutional right of gay people to marry does not affect the RCC and does not affect the marriage of stright people.

LISA KAISER -

America has problems BECAUSE it is trying to fit too many irreconcilable diverse faiths and beliefs together. This is BAD, because so long as there are different factions warring together there will never be peace. One will always threaten the other. There is no getting along. Secularism is the reason why there is so much division. All religions can’t all be true. Either one is correct or all of them are wrong. Secularism is meaningless. Diversity is problematic and Dangerous when you have serious contradictions between different factions of people that say who should live and who should die and who should conquer who. Secularism is is temporary armistice until everything blows over and one group becomes tyrannical over the other or there is mutual self destruction. The solution is to have only ONE FAITH without contradictions. Secularism and diversity aren’t faiths, they’re pointless temporary measures for co-existence that only delay the inevitable. America as a nation will die just as every other nation before it did for the same reasons. When your country is built on lies and meaningless relativism rather than one truth, you will always be divided and you will eventually collapse.

There is only ONE TRUE version of Christianity! The Catholic Faith, whose origin comes from God Himself. All the rest are illicit diversions and man-made faiths started by men who wanted to alter the faith to suit their own views, just like relativists. In fact Secularism and the whole relativist mentality are the children of Protestantism. The inevitable outcome of man deciding for himself what is true, rather than what God, who is Truth tells him. And you are precisely that sort of person, deciding for yourself what you think is right, when you know nothing and prefer to remain in ignorance and your own measure of self-righteousness.

GOD DID NOT CREATE MARRIAGE TO BE POLYGAMOUS. He did tolerate it to an extent in a fallen world! GOD DID NOT CREATE US TO MURDER OR WAGE WAR. But in a Fallen world He does authorize and command it! And in the Bible, note that only men are allowed to have multiple wives. WOmen could not have multiple husbands. Do you know why? No, it’s not because the Bible is sexist! It’s because you madam, don’t know what it is like to live under the harsh and social condition of the Ancient Near East. Women were largely treated as second class citizens around the secular world! Of course secularism in this case means Paganism, where everyone could worship any and all idols they wanted. God was entirely relative, and in certain cases, some in power commanded and forced others to worship their idols or face penalties, no different that America today who forces religious people to act against their conscience to pay for abortion and contraceptives. For the sake of women who could not carry on in a male-dominated world and harsh conditions, men of certain position and who could afford to were ALLOWED to have multiple wives, particularly widows who lost their husband so that they could have a son who would inherit their deceased father’s property and look after their mother rather than the woman losing it all. Please educate yourself. God TOLERATED these practices because those were severe times. Such cultural laws would change according to God and as His people progressed, which is dictated by the Religious authorities under Moses. Now we follow the same way under Peter who can bind and loose such rules as necessary. But ideally Marriage is between ONE MAN and ONE WOMAN. That was the plan at the 6th Day of Creation. And that is the original plan we are to RETURN TO that for awhile we had deviated from, and now are again deviating from today!

Furthermore, you’ve only to read the Bible to see the problems Polygamy had. The Kings of Israel would have much competition and struggle between different wives who wanted their own sons to ascend to the throne which led to murder and division and tragedy. Jacob didn’t want two wives. He wanted one. But he was tricked into marrying both, a punishment suitable for a man who tricked his older brother out of his inheritance. Jacob had to work long years like a dog just to have them both. Abraham and Sarah didn’t trust God when God promised them a son. Sarah got impatient and forced Abraham to take Hagar. God didn’t tell them to do it. And eventually God fulfilled His promise to Abraham that any children He had would be plentiful. But because Abraham and Sarah didn’t trust in God, the child by Hagar and his mother was sent away under Sarah’s orders because she would not tolerate competition. Ishmael would eventually give rise to a new people. And those people and the descendents of Abraham, the Muslims and the Jews are fighting each other to this very day! Just Imagine that LISA! Had Abraham and Sarah remained monogamous, there would be no conflict between Jews and Muslims today!!! Please Go back and READ THE BIBLE LISA!!! Pay ATTENTION TO THE STORY LISA!!!

Finally I SINCERELY WISH there would be a return to a CATHOLIC MONARCHY! Enough with this un-democratic democracy where America is ruled by a shadow government who both parties are controlled by. Democracy should work on the Catholic principle of Subsidiarity, but the larger scope of the government should be ruled by a King whom we trust in God to give to us! Someday we will receive that King eventually, and it will be God Himself rather than a human ruler! Power descends from the top down. Not from the bottom up. People don’t control their countries even in democratic countries, they are forced to pick between establishment candidates ruled by a two-party oligarchy.

So Lisa, please go back and read the Bible and study it from the perspective and development of the times in which they were recorded from the proper Christian Faith that is the ONE AND ONLY ROMAN CATHOLIC CHURCH, the ONLY CHURCH GOD ESTABLISHED! All other religions and Christian off-shoots are false! Do so for the sake of your own soul, and for the sake of those you care for.

LISA KAISER -

There is NO SUCH THING as a marriage between homosexuals any more than there is between a dog and a cat. Sure you can put the dog and the cat together and have a wedding, and maybe even get them to mate with each other. But so what? Marriage has a strict definition and reason for existence otherwise it is meaningless. And that definition is, whether you accept it or not, tied into the practical realities of today and into eternity.

Finally, government should get the heck out of marriage. It is the Church’s business. SEPARATION OF CHURCH AND STATE LISA! WHY DON’T YOU ACKNOWLEDGE THAT???

NO MORE Government involvement in marriage. Certainly NOT SECULAR Governments! Were the Government a Catholic Confessional State, then sure. But SECULAR Governments stand for nothing and therefore should not dictate what marriage is to anyone! Not to Catholics, not to Protestants, not to Adulterers, not to pedophiles, not to homosexuals, not to those who practice beastiality, no one! Secular Governments, though benefitting from the continued nuclear family and procreation and raising of children have shown they really don’t value what keeps their afloat, so they ought to butt out! Catholics should not need any Government stamps of approval to get married under the Law of God who Created Marriage as a reflection of Himself and His tri-fold creative nature. If two homosexuals, or 5 or 10 of them want to have a pretend marriage together then they can invent their own community without the government to pat them on the backs and reassure them that they might perhaps just might not be doing something silly. Fair would then be fair for everyone!

So LISA,if you want things to be fair, then tell the Government to leave marriage altogether, no tax benefits, no nothing for anyone. Just a nice return to the days of old where families and people had to fend for themselves and everyone can believe whatever they want about marriage. Then we’ll see which one will survive. The ones who procreate, or the ones who don’t! You bet the one that makes the most sense will!  So, STOP FORCING YOUR SECULAR INSANITIES AND VIEWS ABOUT MARRIAGE DOWN OUR TAXPAYING THROATS! We can keep this up forever, so best solution is to get the Government out of there so we can actually focus on some real issues!

And if you don’t want to do that Lisa! Then why should marriage only be for couples, heterosexual or homosexual? Why not redefine marriage so benefits can be given to single people too? Maybe I just want to live together with my brother and we can share the benefits! Maybe I just want to live by myself because I have no sexual urges that demand I should put up with a mate. Why can’t marriage benefits be extended to me??? It’s not my fault! I might’ve been born asexual! Let’s just give the benefits to everyone! Why not extend marriage to a corporation of people? Why stop there Lisa??? Corporations and single people pay taxes too! What’s to stop a conglomerate company of employees from all getting a government certificate of marriage? Why not define it that broadly?

Please let me know what you think Lisa! Also let me know if you think people should sue and jail other people because they don’t want to cater to their fantastical whims of dog and cat marriages! That’s discrimination!

Lisa,
Yes, that was my point.  The government will not institute the Catholic Church, nor any other, as the official state religion.  It DOESN’T mean that Catholics, Baptists, Hindus, Jews, etc. should not bring their beliefs into their political lives. 

In the case of same-sex marriage, abortion, etc., you don’t even need to have religion to see that it’s wrong, anyway.  There are pro-life atheists, anti-SSM atheists, etc. and it’s perfectly easy to make a case against abortion and SSM, for example, without reference to religion.

Marriage laws are important because it protects children (although when divorce is so easy, it doesn’t work as well) and the state has a vested interest in ensuring a stable, loving environment for its future citizens.  Children also need both a mother and a father.  Marriage laws and tax stipulations benefiting marriage are because couples perform a public service by raising their children.  We don’t give tax relief to couples just because they love each other.  That’s silly.

Johno,

Wow!  You really do not like democracy.  Yes it messy, but its better than any monarchy. America never ahd a Roman Catholic monarchy, so it cannot be “restored” here.  If you wnat to live under a RC monarchy, there is always Vaticn City.  If you want to live a society where there is only one religions then Saudia Arabia, Iran, Yemen are for you!

You have a very narrow view of God and religion.  God cannot be contained in one faith traidtion.  Judaism, Islam and Christianity are the co-equal Abrahamic traditions that have ongoing, unbrokena nd valid covenants with God.  And its entirely possible that all faith traditions have apiece of God’s truth and that we all have to work together to realize the full extent of God’s truth, love, mercy and salvation.  The RCC is NOT the sole repository of God’s truth. love, mercy, etc.

I am glad I am an American, that I live in alnd of many faith tradition, where ther is no monarchy, where there is no RC monarchy, where no RC boshops rule the nation, where no RC bishop imposes RC teaching on everyone.  Bravo for our society where we have Jews, Muslims, Buddhists, Sikhs, Jains, Hindus, atheists, etc, etc.  Monarchy is a corrupt form of government and God tells that to Israel in Deuteronomy chapter 17 ( I think, if not ch 17, then ch 18).  Israel wants king, God say fine, but warns Israel that they won’t like it!  So no to any monarchy.  No American will ever accept an RC monarchy in our great nation.

God is the God of diversity.  Look at God’s creation—it is the height of diversity.  From the millions of strs andgalxies to the millions of species of living things on our planet.  Even with human being it is realively recently in the hsitory of the earht that Homo Sapiens is the only kind of human being on earth.  Homo Sapiens and Neanderthals (also human beings) used to co-exist in the same palces on earth.  And we Homo Sapiens are diverse—we are tall, short, our skin are different colors, our eys an hair are differemt colors.  So bravo for diviersity—of faith traditions/creeds, cultures, etc.  Bravo for secualrism!  Bravo for separation of church and state!  Bravo for American democracy!

To paraphrase a wise man:  “Let us pray for the pope—that he stays far away from us!

Johno and Dave,

Here is the bottom line:  while it may take perhaps another decade (maybe less),  the constituional right of gay Americans to marry will be recognized by all 50 states and by the federal government.  You may not like it, you may rant and rail against it, but it will happen.  If you don’t like gay people getting married, then don’t marry a gay person! Or move to Saudia Arabia or Vatican City where absolute monarchs will govern your lives, where there is no democracy and where thre is only one faith tradition.  But the tide of acceptance is beginning and will not be stopped.

Lisa,
So, basically, you have no answers for my arguments.  You have declined to discuss “what is marriage?” or “why does government have an interest in marriage?” or critique my answers to those questions, and instead resort to triumphalism.

Yes, you are CLEARLY on the right side here, since you are so easily able to calmly debate and expose my arguments as false.

God bless you, though, for coming here.  I hope you will continue to think about issues and really listen to others.  I have learned a lot by listening to people on the “left”, and as a result, I am a lot more concerned about unjust wars and the environment than I once was.  I think that we can all learn from others when we try to listen rather than sneer.

Lisa,

I have seen the lies and the coverups on that first TV station in your list and the three networks.  My statement is correct.

Concerning lifestyles, you brought up the Bible and I answered you from the Bible, giving you the words of Jesus.  Now, if you do not believe in the Bible or in God, just Google ‘5 proofs’ and go to Thomas Aquinas and believe in proper science and in God.  The Church is all for science.  Scientific discoveries are discoveries of God’s thoughts, and don’t even mention Galileo.  He was going against scientific principles in publishing his theory as fact.  It was proven correct later on and the Church accepted that.  God bless.  Najib.  Over and out.

@Lisa—“But the tide of acceptance is beginning and will not be stopped.”

Good.  That means the godless liberals will accept that some of us actually live our faith.  Oh wait, they can’t accept that…

Dave,

Government does not interfere with marriage.  There was marriage and government-sanctioned marriage long before there was Judaism or Christianity, etc.  Its religion that is is the newcomer to maariage, not government.  So its religion that’s interfering with marriage, not government.  Marriage was recognized as a legal contract loooong before there was any religious component to it.  So the answer to your question is that in civil society, marriage is a legal contract. 

I have not resorted to “triumphalism”  I merely indicated the facts. Same-sex marriage will become a reality in America—it recently became a reality in Spain.  Its a reality in Candada—and yet, and yet Canada has not slid into the sea!  And yet, western civilization in Canda continues unabated!  Its a reality in Sweden (and probably several other nations).  Its now a reality in several states.  Two federal courts have struck down the bigoted Defense of Marraige Act as unconstituional.  If you don’t like the facts you don’t like the facts.  But as Sen Patrick Moynihan once said:  you are entitled to your opinion, you are not entitled to your facts”.

Lisa Kaiser

Oh I don’t doubt at all that gay marriage will be blessed by America and the rest of the world. It will happen becaseu the world gradually grows further apart from God. Such things are prophecised. And you will make war on the Church. Punish us, persecute us, kills us and worse. We were warned of such days. It’s not simply about us leaving you alone. You won’t leave us alone! You will not let us just hold our religious beliefs and keep to ourselves. Just as cases continue to grow whereever Gay Marriage is legalized, Christian business owners, goernment workers, Chaplains, orphanages and charities will be forced to acknowledge and bless homosexual marriages or face fines, jail, legal fees, hatred and see everything they’ve built taken away. We know well your tyranny!

Saudi Arabia, Iran and Yemen are not Catholic Countries. So I won’t be hopping on board to there, but eventually secular humanistic governments will behave just like them and tyrannize us. But if a Catholic Kingdom does truly reemerge, I will seriously consider moving there! Maybe you can I can write a petition that Europe return the Papal States they annexed illegally! Then I could gladly go there!

And of course I have a narrow view of religion! I believe in truth, not a bunch of contradictory nonsense co-existing together. Either one is correct, or all of them are wrong! That’s not to say we don’t have things in common, but that’s not good enough.

If you want to know God, then why not follow the religion God Himself established? Judaism’s covenant was fulfilled in Christ. Modern Day Judaism doesn’t even follow the entire Mosaic Covenant Law anymore either. It’s not at all like the past which requires Sacrificial offerings and the Temple which is now occupied by the Dome of the Rock. The prophet Mohammed took pieces of Judaism, Christianity and Gnosticism, mixed them up with some of his own things, and we got Islam. The Roman Catholic Church is the sole repository of God’s divine revelation!

If you know your Biblical history. All men on Earth began from the same source. But as man tends to do, they rebel and change things to suit them. So the original relationship with God was lost. At Babel, God scattered them. Study the Ancient Chinese religions, that which worshiped Shang-Ti and you’ll find curiously similar practices like that of Judaism. The same for the Hindus if one looks into what the Vedas give you. Look at the Aboriginal stories and those of the Natives, and you’ll find The creation of man and woman, the Tree of Life, the Flood, and many other amazing similarities the further you look back! Men all over tried to retain some of the faith and truth. But with time and corruption, much was altered, lost etc. Eventually God began the process of restoration with Abraham, then eventually concluded it with Christ incarnate. Just as fire from heaven separated the whole of humanity at the Tower of Babel and confused their languages, on the Day of Pentecost, fire descended upon the Apostles who spoke in tongues that every man could understand. This is the signal that God is gathering His people back together! Under one Roof! Under one Religion! Into one Ark! The return to ONE RELIGION is a restoration of the original state of mankind in harmony. A fulfillment of the hopes of those who preserved the ancient religions to the best of their ability. Of course just as then, mankind seeks to corrupt the faith again, through Protestantism and Secularism which is its birth child.

Going back to Monarchy, God warns the people against their wishes for a King NOT BECAUSE A MONARCHY IS BAD, but because they want a HUMAN RULER, and this is important, LIKE ALL THE OTHER NATIONS!!! So God gave them Saul, the good looking charismatic talking leader they wanted, who would fail to be a King and just did whatever the people wanted of him. Read the BIBLE!

I don’t care what America or secularists like you prefer. I’m simply pointing out to you that what you want is a contradiction and in which you will always have conflict and never find peace. What you have is terrible. And you can be proud and arrogant about that as much as you like, but that won’t change the facts. This war that rages around you today, in which people suffer and in which someone out of everyone must be discriminated against is what Secularism demands because there are too many contradictory people who each believe they are right trying to have themselves be the victor. It’s a temporary solution, that like always will inevitably break down and give rise to totalitarianism by one particular group of people. So decide which you would prefer to rule over you Lisa: A Catholic Monarch, a Communist Chairman, or the leadership of a One World Government Tribunal that makes demands of you and for whom you cannot vote for.

Diversity is nice when it comes to the cosmetic features of people, what they look like, what they eat, what they dress up as and what music they play. But DIVERSITY by itself is not always good. We have diverse ways to kill each other too. That doesn’t make it nice. We have diverse opinion and beliefs that conflict with each other and cause us to fight and murder. Does that make it good? No Lisa, you have an insane view where you worship diversity simply for itself, as an idol. It is not an end unto itself.

Finally if you open you eyes you will see that the American people don’t control what their government does. Both your red and blue politicians are for Interventionist Warfare, both are for the NDAA that allows them to jail you without trial and restrict your freedoms, both obsess in accumulating more government power that rubbishes your Constitution and allows them at a whim to freeze your assets, take your property and a wide variety of other abuses that you DO NOT GET TO VOTE ONE because your Politicians WON’T let you! You DO WHAT THEY COMMAND YOU TO DO by Executive Decision, and vote ONLY ON WHAT THEY THINK YOU SHOULD BE ALLOWED TO DECIDE! Neither of them will audit the Federal Reserve which keeps printing and devaluing your American currency for quantitative easing that will only lead to economic collapse (For you, not for them, they’ll be well off!) Neither will they allow grassroots parties to form so that maybe you’ll have another choice. You are effectively under a dictatorship with the illusion of choice so long as they let you argue over homosexual marriage and feel you may have won something! Try and see what’s going on Lisa, and how democracy actually works in the real world rather than how you think it ideally should! Because it doesn’t! There will always be some one or some group in power over the people. Besides which America is a Republic, your Founding Fathers hated Democracy, not that it matters much now anyway… Since America is part of a spear headed plan with the U.N. to end the sovereignty of Nations and establish their New World Order.

Call and/or e-mail the White House and tell the President….....as a U.S. CITIZEN…....WE ARE ALL U.S. TAXPAYERS. THEREFORE…....WE THE PEOPLE DEMAND THE U.S. TREASURY BE INDEPENDENTLY AUDITED…....ALL THE WAY BACK TO 1982 UP TO TODAY….....OR WE WILL REVOLT ON ALL FRAUDULENTLY INDUCED TAXES…...SUCH AS THE MORTGAGES & THE PROPERTY TAXES…...UNTIL WE ARE SHOWN WHERE ALL OF OUR MONEY WENT…...& WHY AND WHEN IT WENT THERE…....! AS A U.S. TAX PAYING CITIZEN…...THAT IS OUR LEGAL RIGHT TO KNOW….FORGET THE FED…..FINANCIAL EXPERTS AGREE…..THERE IS NOTHING IN THE FED BUT COBWEBS…..MOUNTAINS OF COCAINE….& PABLO ESCOBAR…....! CALL AND/OR E-MAIL THE WHITE HOUSE & TELL THE PRESIDENT WE THE PEOPLE DEMAND AN INDEPENDENT AUDIT OF THE SCENE OF THE CRIME…...THE U.S. TREASURY DEPARTMENT….!
CALL NOW & DON’T DELAY….! THE TRUTH WILL SET US FREE…!
WHITE HOUSE SWITCHBOARD…  202-456-1414
WHITE HOUSE COMMENT LINE…......  202-456-1111
E-MAIL THE WHITE HOUSE…..  www.whitehouse.gov/contact/submit-questions-and comments

Najib Nasr -

Actually until today, Science still can’t prove the Earth goes around the sun!

All so called evidence of stellar parallax, and the motions of the planets can be accounted for in Tycho Brahe’s Geocentric system!

No experiment done with interferometers has ever detected the Earth’s motion!

This is why Albert Einstein and others came up with the theories of Relativity! Because they couldn’t explain why they could not detect the Earth’s motion using Light! They merely took Copernicus as an assumed principle to suit their atheistic worldviews! Now Einstein and Relativity are on the way out in the face of Quantum Mechanics! And NASA is running around with their pants down looking at the Cosmic Microwave Background results and other data that show a central Earth!

Even Galileo himself eventually repudiated Heliocentrism of his own accord! Something the Science textbooks wish you not to know!

Look up Catholic views of Scientific Geocentrism! Even Einstein admitted that according to Relativity either a fixed Earth or a solar coordinate system would equally work just as well.

Atheists never had a case against the Church and continue to fail to do so, but currently have a better marketing campaign by taking advantage of the general public’s ignorance!

The Church Fathers, Bible, St. Robert Bellarmine and the holy Inquisition were right to condemn Copernicism! Even John Paul II did not give sway to it instead only leaning on Einstein’s Relativity principle that allowed both heliocentric and geocentric views to co-exist.

Rob,

By all means live your faith.  But that will not change the fact that same-sex marriage is becoming legal around the world and it will become legal in America.

Ivent,

Apparently the ingestion of cocaine or some other drug has set you free!

Lisa,

Yes, and re-defining marriage in Canada, has had an impact on this country, with increasing attacks on free speech and parental rights in education. Gay clubs are being forced on schools, even religious schools. Parents across religions are joining in protest, but the sexual dictatorship continues.

Catholic schools agreed to accept these clubs, but said they would teach chastity. The govt refused. Lisa, race is not chosen. Behaviour is.

I do not want any theocracy, including a sexual rights dictatorship.

And this “right wing” nut job supported gay marriage in Canada, and now regret it.

Johno,

Do not become your enemy! Stop playing their game, of yelling, screaming and insulting.

The word of Almighty God is in the enumeration of everything and in the U.S. CONSTITUTION…...IT IS ALSO ENCODED IN OUR DNA….ALL CONTAIN THE MESSAGE OF GODS PLAN FOR MANKIND. WHICH IS FOR ALL OF MANKIND TO BE FREE & INDEPENDENT ......THAT IS WHY THE FED INVESTORS HAVE HIJACKED THE U.S. TREASURY…...THE U.S. TAXPAYERS MONEY…....THEY WANT TO MICROCHIP THE PEOPLE WITH OBAMACARE & FRAUDULENTLY INDUCE SLAVERY TO SATAN FOR ALL OF MANKIND for THE SINS OF GREEDY MEN….......AUDIT THE TREASURY…....! MAKE THE FED PAY US BACK & ABOLISH THE…....THAT WILL RESTORE THE U.S. CONSTITUTION & ISSUE OUR OWN CURRENCY…....U.S. BANK NOTES….! .

Savvy,

Being gay is how God created about 10% of the population.  All people, gay and stright to live and love without interference from churches or government.  There is no “sexual rights dictatorship”.  That is the same kind of comment that came from George Wallace who advocated “Segration, today, segregation tomorrow, segregation forever.”

Meredith,

this is the argument that the administration wants you accept. The truth is that the HHS in order to proliferate mandated birth control, abortifacient and sterilization is attempting to use a distribution method and a cleaver tax increase (according to the S.C.) to get this stuff to the population for free. It is basically just a DISTRIBUTION METHOD.
.
Men and women with badges and guns behind them are ordering employers, universities and insurance companies to provide these things. There is no earning involved! You are only getting something that could just as well be distributed through a CVS pharmacy with a coupon, or, a reimbursement on your tax return, or, the condom window at the Post Office.
.
I think your ignorance of the issue has a very good consequence. People who may not have understood the issue very well have an opportunity to get a clearer picture. 

Lisa,

The 10% argument has been disproven.  It stems from the 1948 report by Alfred Kinsey, Sexual Behavior in the Human Male. The study was profoundly flawed, as later psychologists studying sexual behavior have agreed. Kinsey’s subjects were drawn heavily from convicted criminals; 1,400 of his 5,300 final subjects (twenty-six percent) were convicted sex offenders—a group that by definition is not representative of normal sexual practices.

Furthermore, the ten percent figure includes people who are not exclusively homosexual but who only engaged in some homosexual behavior for a period of time and then stopped—people who had gone through a fully or partially homosexual “phase” but who were not long-term homosexuals. (For a critique of Kinsey’s research methods, see Kinsey, Sex, and Fraud, by Dr. Judith Reisman and Edward Eichel [Lafayette, Louisiana: Lochinvar & Huntington House, 1990].)

Recent and more scientifically accurate studies have shown that only around one to two percent of the population is homosexual.

And Lisa,

Let’s say, homosexuals argue that God made them that way, God does not make mistakes. Transgendered people then argue that God make a mistake, by making them the wrong gender so they have to change.

It seems like God is increasingly confused. So do not use the “God argument”

Give me a published medical paper that proves that homosexuality is genetic without a shadow of a doubt.

The response is always emotional or yelling, screaming, and insulting of opponents.

The politicians are very deceptive. They are distracting the American people with election farcities,  personal moral and racial issues that are none of the Governments business,  while WE ARGUE & FIGHT WITH EACH OTHER…....WE ARE BEING DIVIDED & DISTRACTED FROM THE TRUTH….... the Fed Investors and their bankster investor minions & cohorts on Wall Street ARE robbing, financially raping & pillaging….THE AMERICAN PEOPLE out of all of OUR Freedom & independence ! Call the White House and tell the President to Independently AUDIT THE U.S. TREASURY DEPT…...! IT IS YOUR MONEY AMERICA…....! IT IS YOUR WEALTH & YOUR PROPERTY .......ALL OF YOUR FREEDOM & INDEPENDENCE THESE POLITICIANS ARE STEALING FOR OUR ENEMIES BOTH FOREIGN & DOMESTIC…...! It’s not right America…..! WAKE UP AMERICA….!

I am a hispanic woman and I vote for the most pro-life person and the social issues are most important to me. (Some Hispanics do think for themselves and don’t drink the Kool-aid.)

Savvy,

Whatever the percentage of gay people is, it is.  Gay people are a minority. So gay people marrying is certinly no “threat” to straight people or Western civilization.

Show me conclusive scientific evidence that being is is a choice without a shadow of a doubt. 

The bottom line is that gay people are created in the image of God, entitled to all the rights as straight people, to the same protections under the laws of every civilized nation—because gay people are human beings. 

Same sex marriage will become a fact in the USA in the near future.

The truth about GODS PLAN is encoded in the enumeration of our DNA…..OUR CONSTITUTION & THE HOLY BIBLE…..IT IS ALSO ENCODED IN OUR LAWS…..THAT IS WHY THESE FEDSTER CRIMINALS WISH TO DESTROY ALL THAT GOD CREATED…...TO DESTROY GODS PLAN FOR MANKIND TO BE FREE & INDEPENDENT ......! FOLLOW YOUR MONEY…...! DEMAND THE PRESIDENT AUDIT THE U.S. TREASURY DEPT….!

All this talk about gay marriage.  I wonder what would happenif a gene for homosexuality was discovered and women began aborting their babies.  I bet that would make gays and liberals turn prolife.  (All people I know that have gay kids tolerate it but don’t like it.)

Lisa,
Surely you recognize that marriage came before government?  The question is why government has an interest in marriage, and what marriage is?  Not what it is legalistically in government (yes, it’s a legal contract), but what is it at its core?

Here is the question, put in another way:  does government have any right to restrict any two (or four, or fourty) people who wish to get married?  And if so, why?  And if not, then you believe marriage is simply a way to sign up to get government benefits?

If you think marriage is simply about “love”, then explain why government should be giving benefits to people simply for saying that they love each other.  I can scarcely think of a sillier concept.  I assure you, this is not the reason why the government originally decided to give tax breaks to those who were married.

Rachael and Sue—
More power to you! I’ve been trying to tell people on this site how women who use contraceptives don’t have the morals of an alley cat in heat. Neither do people who need help to feed their families and get medical care when they lose their jobs. And they don’t like to be insulted by being labeled as freeloaders that choose to be victims. Women don’t like men telling them what is a “legitimate” rape.
.
Obama didn’t necessarily win, Republicans made themselves lose.
.
I don’t know if this will pass the censors, but at least they will read this.

Dave,

Yes, marriage came before government- involvement in marriage and both came before Judaism and Christianity. Two of the oldest faith traditons still in existence.  Dave, why don’t you do sme reading about the history of marriage?

Think whatever you want about marriage, government, Social Security suvivors benefits, the tax code, same-sex marriage in America will become a reality becaue gay Americans have the same rights as other Americans and those rights will be recognized.

As far as same-sex marriage not having an effect in Canada, many Canadians would beg to differ.  It has not, and will not “fall into the sea” (neither did the Roman Empire “fall into the sea”) but get back to me in 2040 or so, and we’ll see if the world has proven to be better off with the emerging cultural consensus that anything goes when it comes to sex.

Then again, the carnage of sexual libertinism is already all around us, with emotional trauma on children from divorce, emotional trauma on women (or men) who are being used, fathers abandoning the mother of the child, babies being killed by their own mothers, STD’s, vastly reduced life spans and quality of life for people indulging in sodomy, etc.  If you can’t already see this, you may never be able to see.

Lisa, you still haven’t answered my questions.  I am going to assume that you are not going to, or maybe can’t.  Hopefully, you will think about it, though.  God bless you.

Lisa,

I never said, that gay people were a threat, just that the West is marching back to Ancient Greece via social engineering. It started a while back.

I never said, that being gay was a choice. I said behaviour is a choice. And this behaviour is forcing approval on our culture.

And if there is not proof either way, then why accept a legal fiction called gay marriage. Equal rights are fine under law, but I do not see the point of social engineering with marriage.

Dave,

All the ills you list above are the ills of straight people.  And you know the legal definition of sodomy is oral sex as well as anal sex?  Sodomy is something that staright people commonly practice. 

If you are worred about the carnage of sexual libertinism, you should marriage for stright people and marriage for gay people.

Savvy,

Gay people have the same right as straight people to live and love freely.  Ther is no reason for gay people to be celibate, jsut as there is no reason for stright people to be celibate.  No one is forcing anything.  What I am saying is that gay people have the same rights as gay people.  Is racial integration forcing something upon people?  No, its recognition that people of clor have the sme rights of as white people.  The tide for the recognition of the inherent rights of gay people to marry will not be stopped.  Same-sex marriage will become a reality

Dave,

i am under no obligation to asnwer your questions.  Gay people are human beings with the same rights as straight people and that includes the right to marry.  And same-sex marriage will become a reality for that reason.

Lisa,
I was not referring to the “legal definition” of sodomy, but to anal sex.  Oral sex is not exactly healthy either, though.  Yes, most of the ills are as a result of straight people, because the vast majority of people are straight.  The last one I listed, however, is not.  The acceptance of gay marriage is not good because it is unhealthy for them, and encourages the normalization of unhealthy sexual practices.

Lisa,

You are not addressing issues.  Straight people are not forcing approval on others of their practices. Race is chosen, behaviour is not.

Savvy,

Gay people are not forcing anyhting on anyone either.  Its about human rights.  Gay people have the same rights as stright people.  Gay people have the inherent human right to marry.  When ther is a depiction of a stright relationship in a movie, book, TV show, etc, that fine.  But the depiction of gay realtionship in a book, movie, TV show, etc is forcing soemthing on people.  Just like showing a Balck person in a nice home , in a restaurant is forcing white people to accept Balck people have rights?

Lisa,

The buck will not stop with gay marriage. Since this a growth industry, why not also sanction polygamy or polyamory since these people pay taxes and are human beings too. They deserve the same rights as others.

Why should only gay marriage have this right?

Dave,

Several things:

You must be an incredibly boring person in the sack.  Secondly, you seem to think that the only gay people are men.  Guess what, women are gay too and anal sex is not an issue.  Thirdly, no one wants to outlaw staright marriage becasue stright people engage in oral sex, in anal sex, etc.  So that’s no reason to prohibit same-sex marriage.  Because you do not like particualr sexual proactices (practices that stright married engage in as wll) is no reason to deny gay people their inherent human right to marry.

You are living in Amerika…..and half the country does not even want to see it…...We are more concerned with what other people are doing in their personal lives than what these politicians are doing. People are a bunch of Gladys Kravitzes ........ too busy worrying about other peoples morals and problems, dumbed down by the media & meaningless Tv programs to see the politicians are robbing them of all of their freedom and independence via the FEDSTERS who have hijacked the U.S. TREASURY DEPARTMENT…......What did you get for voting…....? FOUR MORE YEARS OF UNACCOUNTABILITY BY THE POLITICIANS FOR STEALING YOUR FREEDOM & YOUR COUNTRY…...! TELL THE PRESIDENT WE THE PEOPLE DEMAND AN AUDIT THE U.S. TREASURY DEPARTMENT…..FROM 1982 TO TODAY…....WE THE PEOPLE DEMAND A FULL ACCOUNTING OF WHERE ALL OF OUR MONEY WENT….....& WHY THE FED HAS NEVER PAID US BACK A DIME IN ORIGINATION FRAUD…....THE FED OWES THE AMERICAN PEOPLE GAZILLIONS IN ORIGINATION FRAUD & USURY…...! THERE IS NO NATIONAL DEBT…......THERE IS NO FISCAL CLIFF BECAUSE WE THE PEOPLE ALREADY PAID FOR EVERYTHING AT THE ORIGINATION FRAUD….....! WAKE UP AMERICA…..! THE FEDSTERS, VIA THE POLITICIANS ARE ROBBING YOU INTO FRAUDULENTLY INDUCED BANKRUPTCY…....! THE FED ....VIA WALL STREET COMMITTED A QUADRILLION DOLLARS IN CREDIT FRAUD WITH YOUR SIGNATURES ......WITHOUT YOUR KNOWLEDGE…..! THE FEDSTERS, VIA THE POLITICIANS, WANT TO MICROCHIP YOU TO THEIR DEBT WITH OBAMACARE….....WHEN THEY DECLARE AMERICA BANKRUPT…..BECAUSE THE FEDSTERS & THE BANKSTER ROBBED YOU…...VIA WALL STREET &  THE TRAITOR POLITICIANS…...! THEY WANT YOUR FREEDOM & YOUR COUNTRY…...IN ORDER TO DESTROY GODS PLAN FOR MANKIND TO BE FREE & INDEPENDENT ....! AUDIT THE U.S. TREASURY…...!

Lisa,

You stil do not get it.  If a religious school opposes let’s say pre-marital sex. They will not be in trouble, but they are only in trouble for not approving of gay sex in Canada. This is forced approval.  Or in the UK, where kids as young as 4 are being subject to homophobia training, to accept things.

Lisa, keep your bedroom out of people’s schools.

Savvy,

Well I am all for polyamory!!!  That works for me!  The Mormons would be all making polygamy lega—since they have religious beliefs (weird religious beliefs)about it.  I thin that in the 21st century world, most people would find polyamory or polygamy unworkable.  I don’t think it will catch on.  I personally have no problemn if people wnat to give it a try.  I don’t think the world go end if marriage options expand.

Here’s a lesson from the election…....the American people have become complete imbeciles ........! We don’t elect the President ..... They don’t care what you think…..! The electoral college appoints these politicians for the FULL BENEFIT OF THE FEDSTERS…...& the BANKSTERS…..FOR THE LOVE OF GOD AMERICA…....! DEMAND AN INDEPENDENT AUDIT OF THE U.S. TREASURY & TAKE THE MONEY OUT UNTIL THE CROOKS PAY BACK THE TREASURY & ISSUE OUR OWN CURRENCY….U.S. BANKNOTES….!

Lisa,
Obviously, we are talking past each other.  The purpose of the sexual organs is quite clear to all, except when we let our appetites for pleasure override our reason.  Marriage and sex are about children.  Government has no compelling interest in marriage other than providing a stable environment for children that are created as a result of that union.  Those children represent the future citizens of the state.

If we give benefits to two men or two women that wish to get “married”, we are giving away tax money for no benefit to society.

God bless you!

Savvy,,This is not about “my bedroom”.  And I am not a Canadian.  That’s a different country and culture.  Canada will have to think about how it wants to go about talking bout marriage, sex ,etc.  What happens in Canada stays in Canada.

Dave,

Marriage and sex about waaaay more than children. We have sex organs for more than just reproduction.  And that is particularly true of the anatomy fo women.

Gay people reproduce.  I know a number of gay men and gay women who are parents.  Gay women these days do become pregnant.  lesbian friend of mine is pregnant right now—due in Feb.  Sex for pleasure is also a good thing (again, you must be really boring.  I feel sorry for your wife, if you have one).

So you would outlaw marriage for people who are past their childbearing year—because gosh that’s jsut giving away tax money for no benefit.  People are only a “benefit” to society of they have children?  So they pay into Social Security, have no children, so their spouse should not survivor benefits???  And you would outlaw marriage for peopel who for any number of reasons are infertile, because gosh, those people are of no “benefit” to society.  So men and womem are only a benefit to society as breeeding studs and brood mares???

You call yourself Dave, but perhaps you are the cold heartless Mitt Romeny who does not care about 47% of Americans.

Lisa,

Mormons outlawed polygamy a long time ago. Canada simply serves as a warning for the US, that is going to happen .

Dave, is also right there is no such thing as gay marriage, it’s a legal fiction. The parts do not fit.

Lisa,

Sex might be for more than just reproduction, but sexual brain chemistry in men and women proves that sex is about bonding and children. 

Oxytocin causes a woman to be forgetful, decreases her ability to think rationally—and causes an incredibly strong emotional attachment to form with the man she is with. Men also produce some oxytocin during sexual intercourse. But their bodies also produce a hormone called vasopressin. Vasopressin, called “the monogamy molecule,” kicks in after sexual activity, and its impact is to heighten a man’s sense of responsibility. It encourages that part of him which says, “My gosh, she may be carrying my child! I’d better get serious about life! I’ve got to get to work, to provide for this family!”

Hence social engineering that works to divorce marriage and sex from family and the union of a man and woman are unnatural.

Savvy,

Marriag is about than the “parts”.  And what happens in Canada is no way indictative of what will happen in the US?  I mean no American goes around say aboot for about.  We do not mandate that French by spoken or taught everywhere.  Curling is not at all popular in the US,  we don’t eat marmite, vegimite or whtever that stuff is that Candaians eat.  We don’t have a Parliament.  our lawyers don’t wear robs in court.  So the US is not Canada.  What happens north of the border stays north of the border

Savvy,

Sex, bonding, brain chemistry work the same way in all humans, no matter how they are paired up.

Savvy,

About Mormons and polygamy:  the only reason Mormons outlawed polygamy was beacue the US government was going to deny Utah’s statehood status if did not and the the government threatend to being in the Army to forcibliy stop it.  So the US government forced the Mormons to abandon the practice of polygamy The Mormon theology on polygamy has never cahnged.  The Mormons have never said tht Joseph Smith was wrong about or that it was not a practice ordained by God (or their God).  So the Mormon theology still condones it and the Mormons would go back o it, if it was not criminal in all states.  The Fundamentalist Mormons on the AZ/Utah border are infmous for their current polygamous communities.  Eve hear of Warrne Jeffs?  Google him if you have not hear of him.

Of course, sex is not SOLELY about children, but it is clear that it is intended to produce children.  Eating is not SOLELY about providing nutrients for the body, but it’s clear that this is its primary purpose.

The sex life of my wife and I is none of your beeswax.  I will just say that we are so joyful to be close to each other that we don’t need to continuously up the ante of strange sexual practices in order to keep it interesting.

Sometimes the government steps in to help people who are in need of a helping hand, but that’s not why tax benefits, etc. are given for marriage.  You can never rule out that a man and a woman can have children.  The parts fit; the potential is there.  I have four more children than I should have been able to have, according to doctors.  Of course, people are of benefit to society by their very existence.  But here we are talking about the EXTRA benefits of marriage.

I have really been struggling after Tuesday’s election results, despondent about the state of our Nation and the Godlessness that is taking control of our destiny. I ran across your article and the responses while randomly searching the internet, trying to make sense of things. Thank you for a truly intelligent, clear, challenging, and uplifting article.  And thanks also to many of you who have contributed your thoughts in response (and to the “comic relief” added by a couple of others). I’m a Christian man who was raised Roman Catholic, but now attend an Anglican (!!!!!!) church in Arizona that is a missionary church out of Rwanda. While we do have theological differences with you Romans, we serve the same Lord and know that He is in control no matter what. We should remind each other of that and lift this Nation that we love up to Him continually.

I do not have the words to convey the fact I believe this is one of the most profound and most well-written post-election articles out there right now.  Thank you for reminding us where we should put our hope and what we should really be focusing our efforts upon.

This was brilliant.

The purpose of the sexual organs IS clear….the politicians told the American people, as of 9/11..this is NO LONGER YOUR COUNTRY…..&  therefore, YOU THE PEOPLE,  can take your supposed morals and your sexual organs and use them to all go and screw yourselves..gay, straight…..they really don’t give a damn…..because these traitors have handed your country, your freedom & your independence TO YOUR FOREIGN ENEMIES…..& IN EXCHANGE…....THEY WILL GIVE YOU MANY PLAGUES…..& IF YOU LIVE THROUGH THAT…..YOU WILL BE MICROCHIPPED TO YOUR FOREIGN ENEMIES…..FOR LIFE….....! WELCOME TO THE WALL STREET SLAVE PLANTATION…......BECAUSE NO ONE REALLY GAVE A !@#$% ENOUGH TO TELL THE CROOKS WHERE TO JAM THEIR FRAUDULENTLY INDUCED DEBT FALLACY…....& AUDIT THE U.S. TREASURY…...RIGHT IN FRONT OF THE WHOLE DAMNED COUNTRY…ON NATIONAL TELEVISION…..PRE-EMPTING ALL B.S. PROGRAMMING…...!

ROMNEY WON THE POPULAR VOTE NUMBSKULLS…..!

Here is just what these politicians ALL think of the American people…...rap star Nicky Minaj will tell you…..... the politicians they ......DID IT ON EM…....& ...THAT MEANS THEY DID IT ON YOU AMERICA…...!    All for the benefit of THE FED INVESTORS & THE BANK INVESTORS…...!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DUyn5qyf_6c

Did you God fearing Christians even bother to GOOGLE that video link & watch that video and hear & see what these so called liberal, progressive theologians AKA THE APPOINTED LAWLESS POLITICIANS REALLY THINK ABOUT YOU…...?!  They got their number 2s in the air cause the politicians did it on em…...  !  That means all of YOU GOD FEARING CHRISTIANS…...! THEY DID IT ON YOU AMERICA…....! Do you know why…...? Because WE THE PEOPLE care more about gay marriage,  civil rights & WHAT IS ON THE STUPID TELEVISION,  than our own freedom & independence ......! That’s right…....these politicians who appoint themselves to steal your money only worship the false idol of YOUR MONEY….....& they work hard to find brand new ways to steal it and turn the American people into a 30 TRILLION DOLLAR A YEAR FRAUDULENTLY INDUCED TAX ENTITLEMENT PROGRAM FOR THEMSELVES & THEIR CRIMINAL FRIENDS ON WALL STREET & AT THE FED….....LIKE SIMPSON BOWLES…...TBTF….....FRAUDCLOSURES ........... OBAMACARE…....THE 16 TRILLION DOLLAR NATIONAL DEBT…...AND THE FISCAL CLIFF….....THEY ARE ALL A BIG FAT FRAUD…....!

The FACTS ARE AMERICA…..the world GDP IS 60 TRILLION DOLLARS .....THE U.S. GDP IS 30 TRILLION DOLLARS….......BUT THE POLITICIANS ARE TELLING YOU THAT YOU OWE THE FED 16 TRILLION DOLLARS…......AND THE FED LENDS NO MONEY…....THEY BORROW EVERYTHING FROM THE US TAXPAYERS VIA TREASURY DIRECT…....THE FEDSTER & THE BANKSTERS NEVER PAY BACK THE U.S. TREASURY & THE CREATE DEBT WITH YOUR ELECTRONIC SIGNATURES…..! THATS RIGHT….! & THE FEDSTERS…..VIA THEIR “INVESTMENT BANKS” ON WALL STREET LIKE GOLDMAN SACHS LEHMAN BROS..MERRILL LYNCH & SO ON….......COUNTERFEITED UNCERTIFICATED SECURITIES ......AKA…...MORTGAGE BACKED SECURITIES….....TO THE TUNE OF….....A QUADRILLION DOLLARS…......BACKED BY ZERO COLLATERAL BECAUSE THE FED NEVED PAID BACK THE U.S.  TREASURY….AKA THE TRUST FOR…THE U.S. TAXPAYER’S ........!  AND AFTER 44 TRILLION DOLLARS MORE IN TAX PAYER FUNDED BAILOUTS…....& 20 MILLION PLUS FRAUDCLOSURES…......THE FED WANTS TO DECLARE AMERICA BANKRUPT….....AND MICROCHIP YOU TO THEIR REMAINING THREE QUARTERS OF A QUADRILLION DOLLAR DEBT…......& SEIZE ALL 8 TRILLION DOLLARS OF OUR PROPERTY .....THAT WE THE PEOPLE PAID FOR UPFRONT…...AT THE ORIGINATION FRAUD…......! THATS RIGHT AMERICA….THIS IS ALL BEING DONE BY THE TRAITOR POLITICIANS….. WHO HAVE HANDED ALL OF YOUR WEALTH….......FREEDOM & INDEPENDENCE OVER TO OUR FOREIGN ENEMIES WHILE YOU QUARREL OVER IRRELEVANT CRAP…..THAT IS NONE OF YOUR BUSINESS….....THESE MORAL ISSUES YOU CARE SO MUCH ABOUT ARE REALLY BETWEEN THE PERSON & THEIR MAKER…......& WHILE YOU ARE SPINNING YOUR WHEELS…....THESE CROOKS ARE STEALING YOUR FREEDOM…...& YOUR INDEPENDENCE ..........! GODS PLAN FOR MANKIND…...! THESE CROOKS ARE DESTROYING IT & DESTROYING YOU….EXTRA….EXTRA…....READ ALL ABOUT IT HERE…..  http://electronzio.com/

Why don’t you GOOGLE SEARCH & LOOK UP WHO IS THE LARGEST INSTITUTIONAL INVESTOR IN THE FED…......& THE GSEs and GOLDMAN SACHS…...? THE SMOM/VATICAN/JESUITS BY MANY PROXIES…....WHO IS THE LARGEST INVESTOR IN CITI….....? ABU DHABI…....WHO IS THE LARGEST INVESTOR IN CHASE…..?....BRITAIN…... AIG…..? THE BANK OF CHINA….& AIG ARE $600 TRILLION IN THE RED FOR BACKING $700 TRILLION DOLLARS IN MORTGAGE FRAUD WITH FRAUDULENT CREDIT DEFAULT SWAP INSURANCE…....DEUTSCHE BANK…......GERMANY….....THEY ARE ALL FUNDED BY THE U.S. TAXPAYERS VIA THE FEDERAL DEPOSIT INSURANCE CORP…....AND THEY ARE ALL OWNED BY THE VATICAN/WORLD BANK & THEY ARE ALL INSOLVENT…....!

Here is the link to the truth…........BIG RISK: $1.2 QUADRILLION DERIVATIVES MARKET DWARFS WORLD GDP….
http://www.dailyfinance.com/2010/06/09/risk-quadrillion-derivatives-market-gdp/
Hahaha…....this isn’t funny…...at all…...! While Obama tearfully thanks his campaign workers for doing virtually nothing at all…...and Romney & his wife are celebrating how they got handed millions of dollars in vulture capital from the TREASURY….ANOTHER TAX FREE GIFT FROM…THE U.S. TAXPAYERS VIA THE FED VIA THE BANKSTERS ON WALL STREET…..for putting on a real half -baked performance for the American people…....& we fell for it all yet again…...they are all laughing at what imbeciles we all are. Now they have their second term to do us all in and who will the American people most likely blame for it…..?  The black people….....when it was the uber rich white supremacists all alone…..that’s right America….....the rich white “Conservative” Republicon traitors put the liberal progressives in place to steal all of your freedom & independence .......because they are truly cowards & traitors who hide behind other people to pin the blame on them. They are all IMPOSTERS and criminals all funded & paid for by YOU…..THE U.S. TAXPAYERS .....THEY SOLD THE AMERICAN PEOPLE OUT TO OUR FOREIGN ENEMIES….....AND THE U.S. TAXPAYERS PAID FOR IT…....CALL AND/OR E-MAIL THE WHITE HOUSE & DEMAND THE TREASURY BE INDEPENDENTLY AUDITED….....AND IT BE TELEVISED…...GLOBALLY…..

Believe it America..!...ROMNEY DID NOT WANT THIS MISSION TO DESTROY US…...& HE GOT PAID WELL FOR DUPING US AGAIN…..! They are leaving this mission to destroy us up to this man who is in reality…....not black or white…...he is bi-racial…..but the most important thing they want you to believe and remember is…....a black man did this to you along with all of his Jewish cohorts & minions when THE TRUTH IS…....the real players hiding behind the scenes of this are agents of Satan…..they are satanists, communists and nihilists ....... who have hired & put in place their own ilk to destroy you…..They are all wolves in sheep’s clothes…...

Excellent post!  Thanks so much for contributing a sane, spirit filled voice to the public discourse.

What can you say about a religion whose faithful are terrified it will be destroyed simply because of a secular election? When did God stop doing miracles? Why would God force us to experience another four years with a president who is the Anti-Christ?
.
Wasn’t the world supposed to end some time earlier this year?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2012_end_times
Or was it last year?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2011_end_times_prediction
.
Sorry people—there is no reason for hysteria because Obama is still here. We will survive.

fourmoreyearsofobamatorium…......God gave everyone the gift of free will…...and almost no one uses that gift. I have faith that Amighty God will not allow Satan to destroy his plan for mankind to be free & independent ......... However…....God will not protect those under Satan’s spell…....like the victims of Auschwitz ........the people did not use Gods gift of free will to free themselves. Why?  They were brainwashed & believed everything their Satanic leader told them…....therefore, they all made themselves sacrifices to Satan…......Remember the message of Fatima…...There is one God…..one creator of everything. Almighty God is the only entity we can trust. Anyone else who tells you what to do or how to live is an enemy of your freedom & independence ....... Trust but verify…..if you cannot verify…...who you are giving your payments to…..do not trust…...they will steal it all from you…..and render you defenseless…..God does not colllect usury…..remember .....Jesus threw the money changers out of the temple…..because CREDIT IS NOT WEALTH…..CREDIT IS FRAUDULENTLY INDUCED SLAVERY & SO IS TAX….

Don’t look at the man in the mirror…......look at the word of God ........ These FED & BANK crooks broke every one of Gods laws by deception & you could have never have known this…....because you trusted them. That is why THE INTENT TO DECEIVE is criminal…....it is a felony…..in the U.S.A…....

The year isn’t over yet…....& the greedy racketeers on Wall Street have been robbing the market ever since the Obaminater got re-appointed…....and why did they re-appoint him…..? Because when they rob us into fraudulently induced slavery with their secular appointment….....what Goldman Sachs CEO Lloyd Blankfein calls “doing Gods work” ....the politicians will have handed you over to Satan…...

.........on a silver plated platter…..

Wow. The post was great, but reading the comments is like a roller coaster ride!  Some are thoughtful, well considered and intelligent.  Others are just disturbing!  For MARKRITE:  I have this Bible quote: Matthew 5:21-22 “You have heard that it was said to an older generation,’do not murder,’ and ‘whoever murders will be subjected to judgment,’ but I say to you that anyone who is angry with a brother will be subjected to judgment, and whoever insults a brother will be brought before the council and whoever says ‘fool’ will be sent to fiery hell.”  Many of us are getting tired of the name calling and unrestrained anger being let loose on the air waves, in print and on the internet.  It is time to dial it back for your own sakes.

Little do many Americans know…....Satan has used the Bible to counterfeit the word of God….Satan & his agents have hidden the word of God from the people…....It all started with the BIG LIE that God would not allow mankind to eat the apple from the tree of knowledge….....that was the only way that Satan could make mankind believe his lies…....by forbidding Gods knowledge…...THE WORD OF GOD is easy to understand. The word of God would never need to be deciphered…....... It is encoded in our DNA…it is within us….....it is the gift of free will accompanied by 10 simple laws…........the perfection and completion of Gods plan is for all of mankind to use their own free will .......their gift from Almighty God, to be free & independent….........That is why the framers of the U.S. CONSTITUTION wrote the Constitution in simple terms, that everyone can understand. They used their own free will & forbidden knowledge and did that, so that every American could use the U.S. CONSTITUTION & THE BILL OF RIGHTS…..TO DEFEND THEMSELVES WITHOUT AN ATTORNEY…...That is why, the U.S. Constitution was the greatest document ever written by men…...because it was guided by the WORD OF GOD…....& to this very day….....has not been able to be destroyed by Satan…...no matter how hard he tries…...he knows the only way he can destroy the U.S. Constitution…....is by committing fraud…...Almighty God knows this and is alerting the people ........the time of the Lord is at hand…......because Satan wishes to destroy all that God has created & Gods plan for mankind to be free & independent ........

WOW…....... !  you do not even know who your brother is, because you do not even know THE TRUTH, the word of God.  Therefore, you do not even know who your enemy is….& what council are you talking about….????...I answer to no one but the Lord.  The day you are told to go before a council & be judged for speaking the truth…....you will know for sure you have lost your freedom & independence .......then you better pray .......because the judgement day will be close at hand…....

Mormon polygamy is like most immoral acts against God…..shrouded in a cloak of secrecy…..& given secret code names like the FLDS…FYI…...The supreme court ruled animal sacrifice is legal because it is part of the religion of satanism…..that’s right…...while the supreme court rules & tells you what they deem is moral…...they consider satanism a religion & the U.S. GOVT. protects animal sacrifice .......  Google it…it is in an open FBI file. Though satanism & occult practices are considered lawful in the U.S…....law enforcement has not been given a definition of what satanism actually is….... For ALOT of great insight on this subject & many others…..you tube search FBI AGENT Ted Gundersons videos such as ....THE CIA & SATANISM…....there is a lot of evil hidden behind a cloak of secrecy…...J.F.K speaks about this in the you tube video entitled….J.F.K’s SPEECH ON SECRET SOCIETIES…...

I would bet the ranch that if Romney was told tomorrow morning…...there was a mistake & he is really the President…...he would snidely grin & say…...thanks but, no thanks…...& he would take a private jet to the Caymens….....& never be heard from again….

The truth is….....the Supreme Court shot down their own ruling that Corporations are people and have overruled themselves because….....the SUPREME COURT NEVER TOLD THE AMERICAN PEOPLE WALL STREET STOLE OUR BIRTH CERTICATES AND TURNED THEM INTO BONDS & STOCK OPTIONS FOR THE BANKS TO ISSUE CREDIT OFF OF OUR LABOR….....and because of that fraud by deception….....the Corporation of WE THE PEOPLE was oversold by a massive quadrillion dollars in criminal fraud committed with our birth certificates .......by the Wall Street Bankers via the FEDSTERS…....that is why the FED IS NOW INSOLVENT ON THEIR BALANCE SHEETS…..BUT NOT IN THERE SECRET OVERSEAS BANKSTER ACCOUNTS….....AND ARE TRYING TO COLLECT OUR SOULS ......IN PLACE OF A QUADRILLION DOLLARS IN CREDIT FRAUD….......!

The proof of gods perfect plan in numbers ...... if you take the year you were born & add your age you will get the current year….you will get the current year…...for example…....if you were born in 1963 your age would 49…..add 1963 + 49 = 2012…...

Good posts fourmoreyearsofobama. Glad your posts made is past the censors. At least some of them.

We hear of leadership stating at home.

What about the Church?  Are they out of the leadership business?

Maybe it is because it was their leadership that led us into this mess.  Since FDR, taxes for social programs were seen as charity.  Money would flow into the government and out as programs to help the poor.  This worked for awhile until everyone saw the free money and it went for moral and immoral programs.

Yet, over the years the Church has advocated for these programs and the taxes for these programs even as more and more government funds were being allocated for abortions, contraceptives, easy divorce, homosexual normalization, single motherhood ,...

The Church finally stood up.  It said that forcing the Church to support contraceptives and abortions through ObamaCare is going too far.  They called on their laity to stand up and they did.  They stood with the one that the Church has supported.  They stood with big government.  They voted for Obama.

Will the Church lead?
Will they fight for the laity that they have handed over for the past 70 years?
Or will they shrug their shoulders say a few words from the pulpit and have a nice Sunday dinner?

fourmoreyears,
Are you nuts?  Catholics know full well that the Church will last far longer than the United States.  We have Christ’s promise on that, and if that is not enough, the Church is growing by leaps and bounds in many places in the world.  We don’t know, however, if the Church will survive in the U.S., as the signs of tyranny are plain for all to see, but many refuse to see.  The government could easily provide contraception without trampling on religious freedom.  It chose to trample on religious freedom anyway.

How little you know the ways of God!  Obama is not the Antichrist, though he is certainly opposed to Christ.  God’s punishment sometimes is to give us what we want.

Let us hope that the “home”, our parish churches, which we now and more earnestly will seek at least will stand against the coming onslaught, which will be fueled by the “rights” of those who sin. Nevertheless, though the bricks and mortars of our modern-day “temples” may fall, we must always remember that we ourselves are the temples of the Holy Spirit, and that Christ is our only hope, pure and simple.

Yes, many very good points, however, politics is part of the culture. There is no dichotomy between the two. Yes, we should not focus exclusively on the political aspects of culture, but we do need to address the need for political leaders to change the way they explain their policies to the public. Conservatives already have the most compassionate and effective vision and proven approach to helping the needy, the poor. Conservatives know they, themselves, have an obligation to take care of those in need, rather than passing that responsibility to those in power and hoping they will take care of it. (This is statistically true).  For all of the liberals’ talk of taking from the rich to give to the poor, the reality is that the liberal, Democratic Party, approach enslaves the poor and marginalized, and the middle class, favoring the powerful (which is often equivalent to favoring the wealthy), but they always make sure that people see the bandaids they put on, which do appear nice.

Warner’s main point…yes, we have a lot of work to do, but our work covers all facets of life and culture…because we have been asleep way too long.

I never comment on these things, but I wanted to say thank you.  I desperately needed to hear this message. I’ve been struggling this week feeling angry at God and even betrayed because he “didn’t answer my prayers.”  What He really did was answer my prayers to make me holy and to make me a saint.  While Tuesday’s results are perhaps the biggest let-down I’ve experienced to-date, I will be praying for the grace to stand by what I said Tuesday night: This is the path God has chosen for us to become saints.  Time to get holy.

Dave,

Good response. Lisa keeps saying that marriage is more than blah blah blah, but has not answered two fundamental questions. What is Marriage? Why should the state regulate it?

I am not sure if folks are just being coy, or if they don’t know the truth or, they are afraid to speak about it. However,  I am not afraid to speak about it, & I am not coy, because I know the truth. I guess you can say, the truth has empowered me through my faith in Almighty God, our Creator. I believe in the holy Catholic Church, but, just like in America, not its leadership. If you want to blame the election results on the Lord, then you have lost your faith. The Lord has not abandoned the people. The people have abandoned the Lord. What is occurring in America and around the globe is the result of centuries of evil work by the malefactor. Not the Lord. These agents of Satan who even deny a belief in Satan, and have declared themselves God, these so called atheists, are agents of Satan. They may not even know this. They have taken Satan’s ideology and have installed it in the hearts and the minds of the people. That big idea has been fraudulently induced into our minds for decades. In America, especially, we have been broken down, morally, spiritually, mentally & physically by years of abusive treatment by these politicians. These agents of Satan have very strategically, by decades of secrets, lies, deceit fraud and other abuses, defrauded the minds and the freedom & independence of the masses. The result of decades of severe mental abuse by the politivians is, WE THE PEOPLE have come to accept FAILURE AS SUCCESS…..These politicians have been so successful in fact, they have gotten away with labeling it the NEW NORMAL. By telling you we should just MOVE FORWARD….....and forget the sins of the past, nothing to see there, we are in fact, accepting all of Satan’s evil plans for mankind. WE THE PEOPLE ARE ACCEPTING THE MICROCHIPPED MARK OF THE BEAST. This same evil game, the numbering of the people has been used by the Roman Empire all the way back to when Jesus came back last time. The Romans were numbering the people to collect tax. Jesus exposed the money changers and threw them out of the temple ....... Yes, Jesus is a dangerous man. That is why Rome uses the same agents today to crucify him. WE THE PEOPLE have allowed the FEDSTERS, THE BANKSTERS & WALL STREET, along with the POLITICIANS…...THESE WOLVES IN SHEEPS CLOTHES TO GET AWAY WITH THE BIGGEST PONZI SCHEME SWINDLE & HEIST OF OUR WEALTH…..PROPERTY, LIVELIHOODS IN HISTORY…...By our own weaknesses, we have not demanded accountability for their numerous crimes against US…...There must be a nationwide call for accountability & an auditing of the U.S. TREASURY….........THE PEOPLES TRUST FOR THE PEOPLES MONEY HAS BEEN HIJACKED…...ROBBED & IS BEING PILLAGED BY THE ROMAN EMPORER….& ALL OF THE SELF APPOINTED KINGS & QUEENS AROUND THE GLOBE. We are being driven into willfully accepting the microchipped mark of the beast in OBAMACARE…..Make no mistake, these orders are coming directly from the pontiff…....these agents of Satan via the FED….THE BANKS…..WALL STREET & THE POLITICIANS FULLY INTEND TO BANKRUPT THE AMERICAN PEOPLE TO GET YOU TO ACCEPT THE MARK…..IF YOU REFUSE….THEY WILL CRUCIFY YOU….....The state of this great nation has been so severely weakened that only by divine intervention will we be saved and Gods Plan for mankind to be free & independent will be installed. WE THE PEOPLE have given our wealth and our livelihoods over to the beast and now he is coming for our mortal souls. WE THE PEOPLE, EN MASSE, HAVE LOST OUR GREATEST GIFT FROM THE LORD…..OUR FREE WILL TO SURVIVE…..Because we are en masse, believing the lies, and blaming the victims…....WHO ARE THE U.S. PROPERTY OWNERS…......WHO PAY FOR EVERYTHIN UP FRONT…....WE ARE ON THE PRECIPICE OF THE BATTLE OF ARMAGEDDON…& ONLY THE STRONG IN FAITH WILL SURVIVE WHEN ROME COMES CALLING…...

Obama is now calling for both parties to come together…....NOT to hold the criminals accountable & make them pay us back what they have stolen…..and AUDIT THE U.S. TREASURY…....but to punish the victims…...ALL OF US INTO BANKRUPTCY…..Save your FREEDOM & INDEPENDENCE and your country America…..! DEMAND ACCOUNTABILITG FOR THE CRIMES OF THE FED, THE BANKS & WALL STREET…...DEMAND THE TREASURY IS INDEPENDENTLY AUDITED & TAKE YOUR MONEY OUT .....STOP PAYING THE MORTGAGE & THE PROPERTY TAXES UNTIL THE CROOKS ARE FORCED TO PAY BACK WHAT THEY STOLE….BLOOMBERG NEWS REPORTED THE FED COLLECTS TRILLIONS A MONTH IN MORTGAGE MONEY…...& THEY DON’T LEND YOU ANY MONEY…..& FOX BUSINESS CONFIRMED AS WELL AS CNBC…THEY OWE THE U.S. TAXPAYERS GAZILLIONS IN ORIGINATION FRAUD…...USURY & TRANSFER & RECORDING TAXES ON OUR PROPERTY…......! USE YOUR GIFT OF FREE WILL & DEMAND ACCOUNTABILITY AMERICA….....! OR WE ARE GOING DOWN….AND ONLY AN ACT OF GOD WILL SAVE US .....!

Obama & the politicians won’t save you .....save yourselves….....Demand accountability….CALL AND/OR E-MAIL THE WHITEHOUSE…TELL THEM YOU WILL…TAKE THE MONEY OUT….UNTIL THE U.S. TREASURY IS AUDITED & WE ARE PAID BACK WHAT THEY HAVE STOLEN…......! Go here for the latest info on the biggest crime against mankind in history….....  http://4closurefraud.org/

Don’t refi or loan mod that unsustainable Quadrillion dollar Wall Street fraud…....! The FED is insolvent on their balance sheets…but they have quintillions in ill gotten gains ....OUR STOLEN WEALTH HIDDEN OVERSEAS…....SAVE YOURSELF….! TAKE YOUR MONEY OUT PUT A LIEN ON THE FED & SUE THE FED…..!

Don’t believe the liars in the media & the politicians who tell you there is a fiscal cliff & 16 trillion in debt…....THAT IS THE FEDERAL RESERVE BANKS TAB…..DON’T PAY IT AMERICA…...! THEY ROBBED YOU…..! DEMAND THE TREASURY IS INDEPENDENTLY AUDITED…..STAND YOUR GROUND…....MAKE THE FEDSTERS PAY US BACK WHAT THEY HAVE STOLEN FROM US…!

“Sex, bonding, brain chemistry work the same way in all humans, no matter how they are paired up.”

It reverses the language, turning it upside down, inside out with non-herterosexuals.

Sorry savvy….the truth is…..NONE OF THAT IS TRUE…..... unless you are brainwashed and brainwashing only works IF YOU BELIEVE ALL OF THE LIES YOU ARE TOLD…. Like Almighty God did this to you…..or the politicians did this to you…....the TRUTH IS…....YOU DID THIS TO YOU…...BY BELIEVING ALL OF THE LIES YOU ARE TOLD…LIKE WE ELECT THESE POLITICIANS…....WE DONT…...THEY ARE BRAINWASHED AGAINST YOU & APPOINTED BY THE PONTIFF VIA THE PONTIFICATES…........

THE TRUTH IS…..........you have no choice because the majority of the American people have been brainwashed by Satan into believing LIES…....THE AMERICAN PEOPLE ARE LIVING LIES & SADLY….THEY DON’T EVEN KNOW IT…........THE AMERICAN PEOPLE, BY SECRETS, LIES & DECEIT HAVE LOST THEIR FREE WILL…...& NOW ACCEPT FAILURE AS SUCCESS…..!

The politicians are traitors. Here is why…....no real investigation into 9/11…........no criminal prosecutions of the detainees….GITMO IS STILL OPEN…...FEMA CAMPS…....CHEMTRAILS….....HAARP…..THE PATRIOT ACT ALLOWS THE BANKS TO TRANSFER YOUR WEALTH OUT OF THE COUNTRY…...WITH NO ACCOUNTABILITY….......THE REPEAL OF ALL OF LAWS FOR WALL STREET THAT PROTECT THE PEOPLE…...REPEALED BY THE POLITICIANS IN 1999…......THE REPEAL. OF THE UPTICK RULE IN 2007 BY CONGRESS…..WHICH LED TO THE MANUFACTURED STOCK MARKET CRASH IN 2008…......THE NDAA….......DODD-FRANK PROTECTING TBTF….......44 TRILLION + DOLLARS TO THE INSOLVENT FED SINCE 2008….....WITH NO AUDITING OF THE FED OR THE TREASURY…....THE NATIONALIZATION OF THE INSOLVENT GSES TO THE U.S. TREASURY…....NO PROSECUTIONS OF ANY BANKSTERS…....FED MONETARY POLICY….....SIMPSON BOWLES…...THE FISCAL CLIFF….THE ELECTION SCAM JOB…...IT IS ALL FRAUD AMERICA…..BY OUR ENEMIES…..BOTH DOMESTIC & FOREIGN….

Satan wants to seize Gods plan for all of mankind to be free & independent ........& microchip you with a tattoo in your hand with OBAMACARE….....WHEN THE FED BANKRUPTS THE PEOPLE FOR THE SINS OF THE FEDSTERS VIA THE BANKSTERS ON WALL STREET VIA THE TRAITOR POLITICIANS…...SATAN WANTS TO OWN YOU…..WITH FRAUDULENTLY INDUCED DEBT….!

Its all electronic fraud America…BY THE FEDSTERS…..&....IT IS THE MARK OF THE BEAST…

Just about everybody I know—Democrat and Republican alike—agrees that the United States is greatest country on Earth, and takes great pride in our form of government as the best in the entire world. We have room for improvement. Mr. Warner is correct in reminding us to seek improvement…but to do so without bitterness and hate. Remember, we seek to improve our nation out of love for it and its people. If we think that our brothers and sisters are on the wrong track, we should respectfully and lovingly try to steer them right. And we should always validate that our views are truthful and provable…not like the unprovable accusations that Obama is a Muslim or was born in Kenya. That is pure speculation…just as much as the speculation that GW Bush was AWOL during wartime. There’s no need for speculations. Seek hard and fast evidence of deliberate wrongdoing before spreading lies. Respect the Eighth Commandment.

POLITICS NOT A DRIVER OF CULTURE?  GET THEE TO THE NEXT CAMPAIGN!
Matt,
    Although you have some excellent points, you have two very poor ones, also.  I limit myself here to your worst one. 
    You remind me of when Catholics say, “Of course abortion matters.  However, don’t waste your time on abortion politics, but rather help transform the minds and hearts of individuals so that abortion is not chosen.  That’s how you solve the abortion issue!”  Matt, that’s what you’re saying in your following point: “Does that mean elections don’t matter?  Of course not.  They matter a lot.  But if you want to change their results, the mechanism is not a political one.  It’s cultural.  And politics rarely drives culture, it’s almost always the other way around.”
    While changing minds and hearts is clearly fundamental, ignoring the impact of politics on culture is quite naïve, especially in our age of ever growing means of mass communication.  Politics, politicians, and laws do impact culture greatly by heavily influencing conscience formation—“if it’s legal, it must be alright,” “everyone else is doing it.,” etc.—thereby affecting human decisions, which impact culture directly.  Culture and politics heavily influence each other, a two-way strong influence.
    Therefore, we must go about the hard work of politics, and that includes campaign strategizing as well. So I invite you to “stop it,” to stop suggesting otherwise and do your part in the next political campaign; it’s a Christian duty when living in a democracy.
    Tragically, there are plenty of laity and bishops who share your blind spot—not among the Catholic left, unfortunately—causing serious setbacks in our country that will be felt by Church and progeny long after we’ve died. 
    Thankfully, we have laity like Representatives Paul Ryan, Chris Smith, et al, and a small group of bishops like Archbishops Chaput and Lori, Cardinals Burke and Dolan, and Bishop Jenky, et al, who do understand the symbiotic relationship between politics and culture and provide strong and thoughtful leadership beyond just issuing a strong written statement.
    I invite you to reconsider that politics is, indeed, a critical driver of culture in our modern age.  If you still doubt it, wait and see what four years of Obamacare will do to the culture of our country!  November 6, 2012 will prove to be a most negative, critical turning point in the history of our country’s culture.  I pray fervently that I’m wrong!

“Satan wants to seize Gods plan for all of mankind to be free & independent ........& microchip you with a tattoo in your hand with OBAMACARE”

I haven’t read all your posts and don’t plan to. You are one sick religious fanatic.

No Bill S….unfortunately for you…..you are wrong….....these are not my views…...these are the views of the leaders of the world & the church…..they have a severe God complex and believe they are GOD & HAVE APPOINTED THEMSELVES…... SUPREME RULERS OF THE WORLD. If you do not know what the WORD OF GOD & the Catholic Church teaches…..you do not belong here.  If you were confirmed in the TRUE FAITH…..YOU CONFIRMED YOUR BELIEVE IN THE HOLY CATHOLIC CHURCH…...BUT YOU AGREED TO REJECT SATAN & ALL OF HIS EVIL WORKS…& YOU CANNOT REJECT SATAN & ALL OF HIS EVIL WORKS IF YOU DO NOT KNOW YOUR ENEMIES…...PLAN….....& METHODS…..THEN YOU DO NOT KNOW OUR ENEMIES ..........ANYONE WHO THREATENS YOUR FREEDOM & INDEPENDENCE IS YOUR ENEMY…..THEY HIDE BEHIND SECRETS…...LIES & DECEIT TO DEFRAUD YOU OF YOUR FREEDOM & INDEPENDENCE .......THESE ARE THE GRAT DECEIVERS OF MANKIND WHO TELL YOU JUST MOVE FOREWARD…..AND FORGET ALL OF THE SINS THEY COMMITTED AGAINST YOU IN THE PAST…TO THAT I SAY…........OH HELL NO…..! I WANT FULL ACCOUNTABILITY ......RIGHT HERE ....RIGHT NOW…...OR GO BACK TO HELL FROM WHERE YOU CAME…...!

THESE POLITICIANS DO NOT RESPECT ARTICLE 9 OF THE U.S. CONSTITUTION…....THE AMERICAN PEOPLE….....THE MAKERS OF THE NOTES….....ARTICLE 9 IS PROTECTED BY ARTICLES 1-6 AND 8….....AND THOSE ARTICLES PERFECT ARTICLE 7 THE LEGAL CONTRACT BETWEEN WE THE PEOPLE & THE GOVERNMENT(S).........ARTICLE FOURTEEN WISHES TO DESTROY THE LEGAL CONTRACT BY USING ARTICLE 11 AGAINST WE THE PEOPLE….......THAT IS WHAT 9/11 MEANS…...THAT IS WHEN THE U.S. GOVERNMENT DECLARED WAR ON ARTICLE 9 OF THE CONSTITUTION…..BY DECEPTION OF ARTICLE 14 & 16 VIA ARTICLE 11….......STUDY THE LAW….

The U.S.A. IS THE GREATEST COUNTRY ON THE PLANET…....HOWEVER…... THE POLITICIANS ARE TRAITORS WHO WISH TO USE SECRETS, LIES & DECEPTION TO DEFRAUD YOU OF YOUR FREEDOM & INDEPENDENCE ........ THIS IS THE FINAL WAKE UP CALL BEFORE THE FINAL WARNING…...WE BETTER GET OUR HOUSE IN ORDER…...& STAY STRONG IN THE FAITH…BEFORE THE FINAL BATTLE…...

Whoever does not believe the U.S.A is a Christian nation…...never read the ORIGINAL UNITED STATES CONSTITUTION OR THE U.S. BILL OF RIGHTS….......WHICH PROTECTS GODS PEOPLE….....ARTICLE 9…......FROM TYRANNY & OPPRESSION BY THE GOVERNMENT…...THE UNITED STATES CONSTITUTION….....THE SUPREME LAW OF THE LAND GAVE NO SPECIAL POWERS TO THE GOVERNMENTS…....ESP. NOT THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT…......NO MY CHRISTIAN FRIENDS…...THE TRAITOR POLITICIANS DID THAT…..STARTING WITH LINCOLN & THE FOURTEENTH .......WHICH GAVE THE POTUS…...THE ABILITY TO ABUSE HIS POWER….& OVERRULE CONGRESS & SUSPEND THE RULE OF LAW WITH THE NDAA…...WOBAMA HAS DONE CONSISTENTLY USED THE 14TH AMENDMEND TO UPEND WE THE PEOPLE…....& BURN THE CONSTITUTION & THE BILL OF RIGHTS…....DO YOUR HOMEWORK…....GOOGLE HOW MANY EXECUTIVE ORDERS OBAMA HAS SIGNED SINCE HE BECAME POTUS…....THESE EXECUTIVE ORDERS ARE ONLY RIVALED BY GEORGE W. BUSH…......

EXECUTIVE ORDERS CAN BE USED TO ABUSE THE POWER OF THE PRESIDENCY…....BY THE EXECUTIVE BRANCH…..

There should be no symbiotic relationship or any other relationship between Government & Religion…...except for a mutual respect….What we have here ........thanks to the fraudulent inducement of the 14th amendment & the 16 th is the secret joining of CHURCH & STATE…...YES…..THE FOUNDING FATHERS ARE ROLLING OVER IN THEIR GRAVES BECAUSE AS THEY WARNED WE MUST ALWAYS HAVE MILITIAS AT THE READY…. BECAUSE IF THE POLITICIANS WERE ALLOWED TO SEVERELY ALTER THE CONSTITUTION…...IMPOSTERS (THE FED…..THE BANKS…...THE TRAITOR POLITICIANS) WOULD THREATEN TO OVERTHROW US…....THAT IS WHERE WE ARE RIGHT NOW…..ON THE PRECIPICE OF THE COMPLETE DESTRUCTION OF OUR CONSTITUTION & ALL OF OUR LEGAL RIGHTS BY TRAITORS FROM WITHIN…....BOTH FOREIGN & DOMESTIC…&..ITS JUST A SHOT AWAY…..!

READ THE 13TH AMENDMENT….....Section 1…..Neither slavery nor involuntary servitude, except as a punishment for a crime whereof the party shall have been duly convicted, shall exist within the United States, or any place subject to their jurisdiction. Section 2….Congress shall have power to enforce this article by appropriate legislation.

I’m sorry Ivent. But you are not reflecting Catholic teaching in your rants. And what’s with all the upper case letters?  Are you mentally unstable?

I don’t know about you America…...but I believe by the politicians in Government forcing us to bailout an INSOLVENT FEDERAL RESERVE BANK…...WHO COMMITTED A QUADRILLION DOLLARS IN CREDIT FRAUD IN OUR NAMES…...WITH OUR ELECTRONIC SIGNATURES ..........WITHOUT OUR KNOWLEDGE…......AND ARE BANKRUPTING THE AMERICAN PEOPLE BY SEIZING OUR WEALTH & PROPERTY IS CRIMINAL FRAUD & LAWLESSNESS BY DECEPTION…...AND IS IN DIRECT VIOLATION OF THE LAW ........... YOUR 13TH AMENDMENT LEGAL RIGHT TO NOT BE TURNED INTO A SLAVE BY INVOLUNTARY SERVITUDE BY THE GOVERNMENT…....!

No Bill S….. I am completely stable…..AND MY RANTS ARE WELL WARRANTED…... & I AM WELL WITHIN MY LEGAL RIGHTS TO EXPRESS THEM…..BECAUSE MY FREEDOM & MY INDEPENDENCE I HOLD DEAR…...& THOSE THINGS WHICH I HOLD DEAR ARE BEING THREATENED BY TRAITORS FROM WITHIN BY OUR ENEMIES…..BOTH FOREIGN & DOMESTIC…....

I am not reflecting Catholic teaching Bill…...? If you knew Catholic teaching you would not say that…...because Catholic teaching taught me to be truthful…....and stay true to my faith & to reject Satan & all of his evil works.

This discussion has become about as civil as the campaign. This might some of the needed conversion the article was talking about.

“.& THOSE THINGS WHICH I HOLD DEAR ARE BEING THREATENED BY TRAITORS FROM WITHIN BY OUR ENEMIES…..BOTH FOREIGN & DOMESTIC….”

Who are you talking about?  Have you been able to hold a rational conversation with anyone on this blog?  Pick a topic and stick to it. You’re all over the place. We are in tough economic times but things aren’t as bad as you make them out to be. All you see are conspiracies to take away your freedom. No one is going to take away you’re freedom. Try to stop using upper case so much. It makes it look like you’re yelling.

BILL S…..MAKE NO MISTAKE…...I AM YELLING…I AM DOING GODS WORK BY ALERTING THE PEOPLE…..UNLIKE BEN BERNANKE ......HEAD OF THE FED…&..LLOYD BLANKFEIN, CEO OF GOLDMAN SACHS WHO CLAIM TO BE DOING GODS WORK ..........BUT THEY ARE NOT…....THEY ARE USING SECRETS…..LIES….&..DECEPTION TO DEFRAUD US…...THEY ARE DOING SATANS WORK…...WAKE UP….......THE TRAITOR POLITICIANS FROM WITHIN ARE STEALING ALL OF YOUR FREEDOM & INDEPENDENCE FOR OUR ENEMIES BOTH FOREIGN & DOMESTIC…...THESE POLITICIANS ARE IMPOSTERS WHO MISREPRESENT WHO THEY REALLY WORK FOR….THEY WORK FOR SATAN….

Gerry…..THERE IS NOTHING CIVIL ABOUT THE TRAITOR POLITICIANS GERRYMANDERING ELECTIONS TO AID & ABET THE INSOLVENT FEDERAL RESERVE BANK IN COUNTERFEITING & FORGING UNCERTIFICATED SECURITIES & COLLECTING USURY FROM THE AMERICAN PEOPLE THEY LENT NO MONEY TO…..WITH YOUR FORGED ELECTRONIC SIGNATURE…..TO BANKRUPT & ROB THE AMERICAN PEOPLE OUT OF ALL OF THEIR WEALTH…...PROPERTY…..FREEDOM & INDEPENDENCE .... ! & ENACTING NDAA TO UNCONSTITUTIONALLY & ILLEGALLY IMPRISON YOU INDEFINITELY WITH NO RIGHT TO AN ATTORNEY IF YOU DO NOT COMPLY…...COOPERATE…....& CONFORM WITH MASSIVE CRIMINAL BANK FRAUD…..!

CORRECT TYPO….....THEY ARE DESTROYING US WITH OUR UNAUTHORIZED…..FORGED…..COUNTERFEIT ELECTRONIC SIGNATURES…..!

The microchip in Obamacare is on page 1000….UNDER MEDICAL DEVICE REGISTRY….......& don’t believe for a minute they are talking about pacemakers or stints…...google it….

Call AND/OR E-MAIL the White House America…..call your Senators…..your Congresspeople…..your Governors & your Mayors & ask them the REAL QUESTION…...WHY ARE WE BAILING OUT THE INSOLVENT FEDERAL RESERVE BANK WHEN THEY COMMITTED A QUADRILLION DOLLARS IN FRAUD WITH UNCERTIFICATED SECURITIES….....AND ALTERED DOCUMENTS….....BY COUNTERFEITING OUR ELECTRONIC SIGNATURES…....?????  WHY ARE THEY NOT BEING HELD ACCOUNTABLE…..? DON’T THEY OWE US A GAZILLION DOLLARS IN ORIGINATION FRAUD & USURY FRAUD….......? WHY ARE THEY NOT BEING FORCED TO PAY US BACK…....? THE ILLINOIS STATE ATTORNEY GENERALS OFFICE TOLD ME THERE IS FRAUD IN EVERY MORTGAGE SO WHY ARE THEY STILL BEING ALLOWED TO FRAUDCLOSE…...? WHY WERE THE BANKS & THE POLITICIANS ALLOWED TO TRANSFER QUINTILLIONS OF DOLLARS IN OUR STOLEN WEALTH OVERSEAS TAX FREE? WHY ARE WE THE PEOPLE UNCONSTITUTIONALLY & ILLEGALLY BEING ROBBED OUT OF OUR WEALTH & FREEDOM & BEING BANKRUPTED BY A CRIMINAL BUNCH OF WAR MONGERING ....COUNTERFEITING..RING OF…..FORGERERS…DRUG TRAFFICKING…....HOMOSEXUAL PEDOPHILE RING OF SATANISTS WHO ARE INSOLVENT ON THEIR BALANCE SHEETS…..? WHY….? WHY….WHY…..? LETS ALL MARCH TO THE STATE HOUSES & CAPITALS & DEMAND ACCOUNTABILITY NOW…!

Want evidence….?..go to this site & please scroll down to all adjoining links at the right side of the home page…
http://4closurefraud.org/      google search the 43 trillion dollar lawsuit that was filed against the banks….that was reported on by CNBC….& not soon after this was reported ....by CNBC…....a CNBC execs 2 young children….ages 2 & 5 were brutally murdered…..

@Kevin from Ontario have you read Roman chapter 1? I have read all some versions of the bible and it says precisely the same thing.

You know, this entire thread comes down to, like almost every other thread, if there is such a thing as truth, and how we can know what truth is, and finally, if we should care.

I am trying to verify the truth of what Ivent is saying but it’s going to take a while. Sounds like a lot of baseless conspiracy theory to me. Sounds like Occupy Wall Street jargon.

Here is the link to the story…... http://theintelhub/2012/10/27/cnbc-execs-children-murdered-1-day-after-cnbc-reports-43-trillion-bankster-lawsuit/

I am not a member of occupy…...

No one can make you care about your freedom & independence.  That is up to the individual. The FEDSTERS & the banksters have unleashed fraudulently induced hell on earth and we are all living in it, whether you want to believe it or not. When this term is over, if these very deceptive nihilists and satanists have their way, we will be living in a completely communist country & only an Act of God will save freedom & independence ....... The people have lost their free will…...their greatest gift from God. That is very frightening. May God have mercy on US and alert the people before it is too late.

I forgot to add the traitor politicians are the only reason we are all in fraudulently induced FEDSTER/bankster hell. They are IMPOSTERS. You will know them by their fruits. The problem is the people have come to accept failure as success. That is why they do not know their enemies…....

These satanists, atheists and nihilists have counterfeited the rule of law & the word of God. Read the U.S. CONSTITUTION & the BILL OF RIGHTS. Google search how many executive orders Obama has signed since he took office and what they are. These criminals are bankrupting the people for the sins of the FEDSTERS…..they want an economic collapse that will make the last manufactured Great Depression look like a walk in the park. Just remember…..CNBC reported…..the AMERICAN PEOPLE PAY FOR EVERYTHING UP FRONT…...THE FED JUST PRINTS THE PAPER & HANDS US THE BAG OF IOU’s….THE FED DOESN’T LEND US MONEY….THEY BORROW OUR MONEY FROM THE FED & NEVER PAY IT BACK…...THAT IS CALLED THE ORIGINATION FRAUD…....IT IS CRIMINAL…....WHAT THE FED LENDS YOU IS CREDIT…..WHICH IS UNSUSTAINABLE DEBT BECAUSE THEY SOLD INVESTMENTS IN CREDIT THEY NEVER PAID FOR & NEVER EXISTED…..TO THE TUNE OF A QUADRILLION DOLLARS…..THE FED IS THEREFORE INSOLVENT ......BUT INSTEAD OF THE POLITICIANS AUDITING THE TREASURY & THE FEDS BALANCE SHEET & PUTTING THEM OUT OF BUSINESS BY MAKING THEM PAY US BACK WHAT THEY STOLE….THEY ARE PUTTING US OUT OF BUSINESS BY ROBBING US OF ALL OF OUR WEALTH & PROPERTY…...TO FORCE US TO ACCEPT THE MARK OF THE BEAST IN OUR HAND…..ON PAGE 1000 OF OBAMACARE & THEN IT WILL BE COMPLETE COMMUNISM…..COMPLETE FOREIGN GOVERNMENT CONTROL BY OUR FOREIGN & DOMESTIC ENEMIES…....& THE END OF GODS PLAN FOR MANKIND TO BE FREE & INDEPENDENT .......... WELCOME TO THE OBAMATORIUM & THE WALL STREET GOVERNMENT SLAVE PLANTATION…..WHERE NO ONE IS ALLOWED TO BE FREE & INDEPENDENT TO THINK FOR THEMSELVES…...WORK FOR THEMSELVES OR PAY FOR THEMSELVES .....WAKE UP AMERICA….STOP COOPERATING, COMPLYING & CONFORMING TO FRAUD…..STOP PAYIN THESE CROOKS….!

I, like many others who read your column, would like to say Thank You!  You put many things in perspective, and I had just been feeling early this AM that perhaps the ‘Election is just a Reflection’ of what is already here.

I also was feeling somewhat morbidly depressed and even crying, for how many more babies are going to be killed; how will we protect our religious freedom now, and just how far down do we have to go before our culture really ‘turns back’ toward basic values? 

  I began immersing myself in the great book ‘Abandonment to Divine Providence,’ in which the author of long ago said that the Presence of God’s Providence abides in the ‘present moment,’ and that all He does is for our Good, no matter how bad it may appear. My ‘head’ knows it’s true.  Your article helped get it closer to my ‘heart-knowledge.’

  I liked the Michael Jackson song and video and also appreciated Mother Theresa’s words…I printed them up for daily reading. 

  The internet talk gets so wild, it’s sometimes hard to focus on what is the important ‘stuff.’

Your article was refreshing and as the current saying goes, ‘Spot On,’ in my opinion. May we all make the very best of whatever is going on and meditate on what part God might want each of us to play—-One Day at a Time.

  PS….I believe you may be on to something ‘Ivent,’ but you are going to give yourself a stroke or heart attack by trying to fight to get any money back from the Government.  It won’t work, even if what you say is true.  I’m Irish and a ‘fighter,’ but a bit of age has given me a clear perspective on the need to pick our fights carefully.  The path you are on will just wear you out, I think.  You might sit back a little and watch God work on those that ‘do evil.’  They truly will ultimately self-destruct, which will save your blood pressure and happiness.  I’m not being sarcastic——truly——I fought the ‘government’ for over seven years.  I won my freedom, but it just about killed me off.  I think I could have turned more over to God with less wear and tear on myself.

That’s in hindsight though…Seemed like ‘righteous wrath’ at the time.

Read the Psalms….they are awesome for desperate times.

God Bless and Keep you Matthew…and all in this ‘thread.’

KateriT2

Too many Americans have abandoned God and their free will to be Free & Independent. Too many Americans are accepting failure as the new normal. Half of the people in America are unemployed….either on fixed incomes because they are retired or can’t employ themselves because the economy is a manufactured living hell. The retired people living on big fat pension money that has already been stolen by the politicians are the real blindsided people…..along with the public sector workers who are being paid by all of us private sector suckers….When we are broke and can no longer make up for all of the missing money the politicians stole via mass corruption ....... then the masses of entitlement holders are in for a rude awakening. Then they will say…....they should not have voted for 4 more minutes of the Obama administration .....let alone 4 more years. That is the problem with creature comforts….....they give people a false sense of freedom & security and by the time they wake up from their slumber…..it will be too late. All will be lost and it will take an Act of God to get it all back….

I have faith that Almighty God will intervene before all is lost. I pray God will help us save our freedom & independence before all is lost.

These communist crooks warned, that in the end,  they would unleash the atheists & the nihilists…...Behold…!....the obamanation of desolation…..!

The Lord spoke of the signs…....wars & rumors of wars would be the beginning of sorrows. When you here of wars close at hand and far away, know that the time of the Lord is at hand. Arm yourselves with the truth America…..So that you will know the lies and you will recognize your enemies both close at hand & far away.

Don’t believe the media lie that Obama is a Christian. The proof is in the Black Liberation Theology Church he attended while living in Chicago…...Reverend Wright said God damn America…..

LOOK AROUND….....These criminals try & paint the Blessed Mother of God black,  and call Catholics, Pagan worshippers. They say we worship false idols when that is what they do. I do believe the prophecy that John Paul II was the last real pope. He feared he would be the pope they would use to usher in Complete Communism & the mark of the beast. That is why they shot him when he tried to consecrate Russia to the Immaculate heart of Mary. The Catholic Church always feared these communists would use the Catholic Church to destroy Gods Plan for mankind to be free & independent.  I remember watching the appointment of Benedict live on CNN..The reporter said the rumor was the next pope would be a black pope. Well she obviously wasn’t talking about the color of his skin.

I believe Gods anger will rise up against them.

Ivent. I got on the link you sent. Maybe you’re not as crazy as I thought you were.

We need to place our trust in Almighty God & know that he has a plan and reject all of satans evil works.

The facts don’t lie Bill…...& the truth is being revealed to all who seek it.  This is Gods promise & only by the grace of God…...the great light of Gods Love for mankind is in the truth. That is what has inspired me to alert the people to the truth…....it is not hidden if you wish to seek & find it.

The truth is…...Gods Grace is there for all who seek it. I have faith, Almighty God will use the truth to unite the people against this giant fraud or I would not be here. The problem is, too many Americans do not know what these crooks are trying to accomplish is, the theft of Gods Plan for mankind to be free & independent ......

Ivent, I am with you on most of what you are saying except the Vatican stuff. However I do believe communist infiltration inside the church. You also lose me on saying Romney is not good. I believe there are Republicans that are not good and commit sins just like most of the Democrats, Liberatatians etc… Romney is a Mormon and I don’t hold him to Catholic beliefs as I would a Catholic politician. I actually believe we had a chance to elect a good man though a sinner like all of us to serve us as President of USA. On election night I was stunned! Something seems so bizzare and creepy about that entire night. Very similar how I felt on election night 2008. As I read about voter fraud that took place my feelings of something
seems terrible wrong was made clear. With massive voter fraud done by the Obama supporters add that to those who didn’t vote at all, and those who voted third party played a key role in re- electing the most corrupt administration in our country’s history! We Catholics who know better need to wake up also to the big gorriella in the church illegal immigration being promoted under the guise of helping the poor “social justice “. The stats are coming out that a majority of Hispanics voted for Obama because of immigration and “Dream Act”. The majority of Bishops in this country support these socialist policies, even many “conservative bishops and priests.  They are afraid they might offend Hispanic people. We have a serious problem in the Church along with rampant contraception amoung the laity as well as closet practicing homosexual sex amoung the clergy. The conservative catholics are fooled into false obedience so they keep quite. The false obedience is
being indoctrinated to us through “conservative ” catholic publications like National catholic Register and others. They don’t want to rock the boat with their bishops because they got to make a living$$.  This is been going on for sometime!! Now you get an article like this one of retreat from the battle by dismissing involvment in politics and government. I will repeat Invert’s Wake Up!  but add Speak Up! to those in authority that need to be repermanded. Gather like minded Catholics who are not timid and afraid of confortation and demand an accounting from your bishop and priests. Put pressure on them show them tough Love!!!!  I would cancel all subscriptions to catholic organizations that promote false obedience. More tough Love!

I pray the people turn away from this fraud and manufactured tyranny & oppression and enlighten themselves with the truth about the biggest fraud in history being perpetrated against God & mankind. What they are really doing by offering help and fixes for fraud is they are stealing your freedom & independence & Gods plan…

Suzanne….. Google the Black pope & the Jesuits. The smoke of Satan has entered the church. Father Malachi Martin, a Jesuit trained priest said they are holding black masses in the Vatican. Search for the you tube videos…..read the books by Ted Flynn…....THE THUNDER OF JUSTICE & THE HOPE OF THE WICKED….REMEMBER….BLACK IS WHITE…....& THE PEOPLE OUT FRONT ARE RULED BY VERY DIFFERENT PERSONAGES THAN WHAT THEY APPEAR…...

Kevin ontario
the united states is indeed diversified.but regardless of their religious
affiliation or absence of it.they are still expected to comply to respect
human life according to our law. Abortion is murder because it kills an innocent person who has committed no crime. Homosexual marriage is absolutely harmful to society as honest social scientist have determined.
I think youare severly blinded by pride and anger that you miserably rely
on MAHERS theology tha is both bogus and laughable.

Just like Romney, you probably don’t want any fact-checkers on your site. It sounds like people here are still living in the McCarthy era.

The Church created marriage, God created sex.

Blessed Mother of God…...please intercede for us as we pray for these sinners who do not know what they do. The people can barely afford food, their homes, or to keep their utilities on because the obamanation are robbing the people into the street. The politicians are robbing the people of all of their unalienable rights, and giving our remaining wealth to these sinners who are robbing us to destroy Gods plan for mankind to be free & independent…..!

McCarthy knew what these satanists were up to. Satan has subverted the truth. God created sex so that man could be fruitful & multiply. All of the rest of this garbage they are feeding you is not only manufactured by them but, it is blasphemy. These scum are trying to destroy our DNA…..the God particle of life with innoculations…& by…poisoning our environment.

Obama says he is up for suggestions about how to solve the FEDSTERS/BANKSTERS QUADRILLION DOLLAR DEBT PROBLEM….
HERE IS A NOVEL SUGGESTION…...WHY DON’T WE THE PEOPLE…............CALL AND OR E-MAIL THE WHITE HOUSE AND TELL OBAMA…..WE THE PEOPLE…......THE MAKER OF ALL OF THE NOTES…....ARE INVOKING OUR 9TH AMENDMENT RIGHT TO INVOKE OUR 13TH AMENDMENT RIGHT….............AND WE DEMAND THE U.S. TREASURY BE INDEPENDENTLY AUDITED…....AND WE THE PEOPLE…....DEMAND THE FEDSTERS & THE BANKSTERS PAY US BACK WHAT THEY HAVE STOLEN ALL THE WAY BACK TO 1982….....THE YEAR REAGAN STARTED LOOSENED UP THE RULES FOR THE BANKS….....THAT WAS THE BEGINING OF THE BIGGEST BANK FRAUD IN U.S. HISTORY…...AGAINST WE THE PEOPLE…..ONLY OUTDONE BY BILL CLINTON IN 1999 BY REPEALING GLASS STEAGALL….& SIGNING NAFTA…...

fourmoreyearsofobamanation…...we all have to do own homework…....I am delivering a message…...it is up to each of us to seek the truth…...Reagan famously put out the warning to the people…..TRUST BUT VERIFY…...IF YOU CANNOT VERIFY….DO NOT TRUST. We all need to use our own common sense as well….A quadrillion dollars in FED CREDIT FRAUD BACKED UP BY $8 TRILLION DOLLARS IN PROPERTY…DOESN’T ADD UP…..THE WORLD GDP IS ONLY 60 TRILLION DALLARS….COME ON PEOPLE…....THE POLITICIANS ARE TRYING TO SERVE US UP A FLAMING $17 TRILLION IN DEBT WE THE PEOPLE DID NOT CREATE…....THAT IS THE FISCAL CLIFF FRAUD THE FEDSTER/BANKSTERS WANT TO USE TO DO US IN…...THAT IS ALL USURY FRAUD THE FEDSTERS & THE BANKSTERS COLLECTED TO PAY THEMSELVES & THEIR CRIMINAL FRIENDS BOTH FOREIGN & DOMESTIC…...! DON’T YOU PEOPLE SEE THE FEDSTERS /BANKSTERS HAVE HIJACKED THE TREASURY & THEY ARE TRYING TO STEAL THE POWER OF THE MAKER OF ALL OF THE NOTES…..WHO ARE WE THE PEOPLE…..WE THE PEOPLE ARE THE 9TH AMENDMENT .......WAKE UP PEOPLE….! THEY HAVE HIJACKED THE TREASURY…....OUR MONEY…...AND THEY ARE PLANNING ON STEALING IT ALL…......ALL OF YOUR FREEDOM & INDEPENDENCE .....! TICK…TOCK AMERICA…..! ONE DAY SOON YOU WILL WAKE UP SEIZED BY THE FEDSTERS & BANKSTERS & BE BROKE & HOMELESS IN THE LAND OUR FATHERS FOUNDED… THE FED IS PLANNING ON DECLARING AMERICA BROKE AFTER WE HANDED THEM 47 + TRILLION DOLLARS ALREADY…! AND 20 MILLION FRAUDCLOSURES ....! FOR THE LOVE OF GOD….WAKE UP….! YOUR ARE LIVING IN FRAUDULENTLY INDUCED FEDSTER/ BANKSTER HELL…!

Romney is powerless against these crooks…..& he knows it…...He is afraid of them…..that is why he never really said what needed to be said. Romney was a powder puff in the arena of gladiators .........It is going to take every American to stop complying,  conforming & cooperating with this massive fraud & divine intervention ........

Interesting google search ......Eric Jon Phelps pdf book entitled VATICAN ASSASSINS….Amazing Grace how sweet the sound….& you tube search Eric Jon Phelps videos….

Really Meredith….? We are pushing our religious ideals on who exactly….? Take a look around ........you are at the National Catholic Register website. If you do not share our religious views, you are either an imposter…or a lost soul…..

Susanne ....I believe the real accounting in this country needs to be at the TRUST FOR THE PEOPLES MONEY…..THE U.S. TREASURY DEPARTMENT….......The TRUSTEE for THE TRUST OF THE PEOPLES MONEY IS A CROOK WHO WORKS FOR THE FED…..HE WAS HIRED BY OBAMA…...THESE FED CROOKS HAS HIJACKED THE TRUST FOR THE PEOPLES MONEY…....TIME TO STORM THE BASTILLE….& TELL THE CONgress & THE WHITE HOUSE WE DEMAND FULL ACCOUNTING ....ALL THE WAY BACK TO 1982…..WE THE PEOPLE DEMAND OUR STOLEN WEALTH BE RETURNED…..IN GOLD….TO FORT KNOXX…..& OUR OWN CURRENCY BE ISSUED .....U.S. BANK NOTES ....VIA STATE BANKS…..AS THE UNITED STATES CONSTITUTION REQUIRES…..& ABOLISH THE FEDERAL RESERVE BANK….......A PRIVATE BANK…..THE FED IS A ROBBERBARON MIDDLEMAN .....A STRAWMAN PROXY FOR THE RICH….!

This string reminds me of the time I ate bad fish in Chinatown, and tried to make it home on foot.  However, maybe the explosive allusion is indeed apt to your point, Mr. Warner: “the radio is in the hands of such a lot of fools who’re trying to anesthetize the way that we feel.” Costello.  To your point: throw out your TV; disconnect the cable; use the internet in a very limited and circumspect way; trade in your iphone for something simpler; opt out of the information revolution; stop reading newspapers - online or paper; don’t play the market, or depend on savings at all; be minimally hooked in to the media or marketplace; start walking down that straight and narrow path.  You will be waylaid everywhere else.  Burp.

I am obviously, by no means, soft on President Obama…....However, when he speaks the truth…..even if it is only half of the truth, I recognize that as a half step in the right direction…......In his Benhazi speech in the rose garden,  he spoke the truth when he said ......... Our freedom is only sustained as long as there are people who are willing to stand up for it…...fight for it and in some cases, lay down their lives for it…..America is only as strong as the character of our people. Both civilian & military, who are willing to fight for our freedom at home & around the globe.

The ongoing issuance of credit by the FED…....AN INSOLVENT BANK…....and the neverending bailout of the stolen pension money & Medicare/Medicaid money of the PUBLIC SECTOR being exracted by the FED from the PRIVATE SECTOR .....ALONG WITH ALL OF THE FRAUDCLOSURES ON THE PRIVATE SECTOR is the real anesthetic for the 47%.........When they can’t continue the ROBBERY OF THE PRIVATE SECTOR because all of our livelihoods…...wealth & property are STOLEN BY THE FEDERAL RESERVE BANKSTERS TO PAY FOR…..ROBBED PUBLIC SECTOR PENSION FUND MONEY & HEALTHCARE…....THEN THEY WILL BLAME THE PRIVATE SECTOR…...FOR BEING DEADBEATS WHO CAN’T PAY FOR THE FEDS CRIMES AGAINST HUMANITY….THEN IT WILL BE HE DOUBLE TOOTHPICKS ON EARTH…..FOR EVERY AMERICAN…..& THE MICROCHIPPED MARK OF THE BEAST…FOR MANKIND WHEN THE FED SEIZES ALL OF OUR FREEDOM & INDEPENDENCE .......WITH QUINTILLIONS IN OUR STOLEN WEALTH THEY HAVE STOLEN FROM THE AMERICAN PEOPLE…....& HIDDEN OVERSEAS VIA THE PATRIOT ACT…....THEN IT WILL BE ANARCHY…...WHEN THE FED PAYS US BACK OUR STOLEN WEALTH IN WORTHLESS SHECKLES…...INSTEAD OF GOLD….

America is a fictional construct, which unfortunately has undergone a top-to-toe revision.  And none of my friends are on the rewrite committee.

Bet there have been no fraudclosures on the PUBLIC SECTOR…JUST WAIT UNTIL THE PRIVATE SECTOR IS DRIVEN INTO FRAUDULENTLY INDUCED BANKRUPTCY & THE REPO MAN COMES FOR THE PUBLIC SECTOR…...THE LAWYERS, THE COPS, THE FIREMEN, THE GM PENSIONERS ......& OBAMA TELLS THEM….....THEIR CREDIT LINE HAS BEEN CUT OFF BY THE PRIVATE SECTOR….......BECAUSE THE 51% PERCENT CAN’T AFFORD TO PAY FOR A QUADRILLION DOLLARS IN FRAUD BY THE FED…..THE BANKS & THE POLITICIANS ANYMORE…....WE CAN’T PAY FOR YOUR STOLEN PENSION MONEY & HEALTHCARE ANYMORE…....THEN THERE WILL BE A MARCH ON WASHINGTON BY THE 98%.....THEN THE HOUSE OF CARDS WILL FALL WHERE THEY SHOULD HAVE FELL 4 YEARS AGO…..RIGHT IN THE LAPS OF THE TOP 2% & THEIR CRIMINAL FRIENDS AROUND THE GLOBE….!

That’s what they want you to believe Matt…....there is way…..way too much compliance…..conformity & cooperation with these crooks…FEMA SHOWED UP 5 DAYS AFTER FRANKENSTORM & WE ARE STILL PAYING THESE CROOKS…..? THE FED COLLECTS TRILLIONS OF DOLLARS A MONTH IN MORTGAGE MONEY THEY ARE NOT EVEN OWED BECAUSE OF THE ORIGINATION FRAUD REPORTED BLOOMBERG NEWS…...WHILE OUR PEOPLE ARE LEFT HOMELESS WITH NO SHELTER…FOOD….WATER OR TOILETS….! ARE WE NUTS…..?.......NO….. WE ARE COMPLETELY BATSHIT…! TAKE THE MONEY OUT AMERICA…....!

George H.W. BUSH said there are a thousand points of light out there America…WHAT ARE THE 1000 POINTS OF LIGHT ...? COMMUNITY ORGANIZATIONS…LIKE ACORN…....CREATED ....to create homeless men & women ..to that I say…...there are 314, 746, 047 U.S. CITIZENS WHO FULLY INTEND TO EXERT OUR 9TH AMENDMENT RIGHTS…....AS THE OWNERS OF THIS PLACE…....THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA….PROTECTED BY AMENDMENT 1-6….&..8-13…..PERFECTED BY ARTICLE 7…...TO GET BACK WHAT YOU CROOKS STOLE FROM WE THE PEOPLE…....THE REAL OWNERS OF THIS PLACE….AND WHY DO WE THE PEOPLE OWN THIS PLACE…....? BECAUSE WE THE PEOPLE…....FOUGHT, DIED, FOUNDED, BUILT & PAID FOR EVERYTHING UPFRONT…..AT THE ORIGINATION ....AND ALMIGHTY GOD SAID…....WE WILL LET NO MAN PUT US UNDER…......!

AMERICA IS NOT A FICTIONAL STRUCTURE Matt….....THE FEDERAL RESERVE BANKING SYSTEM IS…....WHY….? THEY ARE INSOLVENT…....BY A QUADRILLION DOLLARS & THATS THE FACTS MATT….SO WHY DON’T YOU GO BITE THE BIG APPLE….& DON’T MIND THE MAGGOTS….....YEAH….THATS RIGHT…....I GUESSED YOUR NAME….LUCIFER….....I ALWAYS KNOW YOU BY THE LIES YOU TRY TO MAKE THE MASSES BELIEVE….

The federal reserve is fictional.  The US dollar is fictional.  It only exists because you agree to let it exist.  If you ignore it, it will go away.  If you impose order on your imagination, order in the world will follow.  Satan only holds any power over you because you agree to let him have it.  Don’t blame anyone or anything for the state of creation.  It merely is.  “The movement you need is on your shoulder.”  McCartney.

RE. the first comment on this thread ....Pope John Paul said we get the politicians we deserve….? Was that a statement meant to be a sucker punch to blinside &  blame the victims…..or was he trying to wake up his flock…? He is dead now, so we can’t ask him. RE matt’s comment on what McCartney said. The Beatles were masters at the art of deception…subversion & subliminal messaging ......take for instance…money can’t buy me love…....or hard days night…these were soft porn snuff records aimed at the youth…telling you money is not that important, when in fact, the Beatles sure made gazillions….& after a hard days night of work, sex is all you really need as a reward. As far as the FED & their counterfeit notes…..most Americans don’t have a clue because they don’t teach you spit in school and that is intentional ......The teachers are brainwashed to….too much partyng & sex in college makes for the perfect specimen to brainwash….Then you have the perfect environment for the studious foreigners to come over here to steal all of our secrets…Would you believe one of my daughters h.s. teachers told the class that the reason you go away to college to party….?!?! Yeah….we’re screwed….& the reason why is these teachers are very clever communist subversives…..& they may not even know it because they are brainwashed too… Social Justice & Globalization…..that is what these crooks are teaching our kids in college…..they are communist subversionists….wolves in sheep’s clothes….who tell our kids to meditate during class in high school….or they flip on a drunken college flick so they can go chit chat with their comrades out in the hallway…..yeah its a mess…....and no one gives a damn….otherwise they would revolt on the property taxes & home school their kids…..but they are to busy working to rob Peter to pay Paul….yeah this place has really gone to hell in a handbasket…...thanks to years of media subversion & brainwashing .....telling us how to live & what to believe…& they are playing Christmas music on the radio in Chicago already & its not even Turkey day yet…..& its 70 degrees in November…....Its the new abnormal ......... the altered state of the union….& it is absolutely looney & no one seems to notice…...expect a sneak attack soon…...earthquake on the new Madrid fault line yesterday…...& in myanmar….when all seems peaceful & secure ......make no mistake…....these sneaky sobs are up to some really dirty tricks…..

Mark 11:12; 12:12…....and he taught, saying unto them, Is it not written, my house shall be called of all nations the house of prayer? but ye have made it a den of thieves.

And they came to Jerusalem: and Jesus went into the temple, and began to cast out them who bought and sold in the temple, and overthrew the tables of the moneychangers, and the seats of them who sold doves.

A CNN poll said just 52% of Americans approve of God’s job performance ........that is the reason why we are here. That poll is a mirror image of the election results…. CNN calls it a historic election. I call it the perfect example of the battle of good v evil ......and evil is up by 2%.....

Forget the 52%.  Do you approve of God’s job performance?

May I add that 2% are who are ruling the earth…..they are the 1% plutocrats & the 1% oligarchs…...& its all a giant fraud. They haven hijacked the Treasury…..the American peoples wealth…..and no one really seems to gives a damn…Obama said today…I am going to tell YOU right now…..I…....will not accept anything less than a balanced budget…..(a fraudulently induced bankruptcy of the American people)...So says the self appointed ruling class…Now ........ that is absolutely disrespectful & if we allow that kind of response from them…...we do deserve whatever we get…...& believe me….NO ONE is going to like the way they intend to “balance” the budget of the American people who pay for everything…...& I mean WE THE PEOPLE PAY FOR EVERY SINGLE THING….....THESE CROOKS GIVE US NOTHING OF VALUE IN RETURN ........JUST MOUNTAINS OF FRAUDULENTLY INDUCED DEBT….....& NOW THEY ARE COMING FOR YOUR SOCIAL SECURITY MONEY & ..YOUR PENSION MONEY….& THE UNEMPLOYMENT & THE FOOD STAMPS….....WELL ......SIONARA SUCKERS…..YOU 52%ERS ELECTED THEM….& DON’T SAY YOU WEREN’T WARNED…

Absolutely ...unequivocally .......YES….....God gave us everything & what have we done with it…...? We stopped paying attention….and 50% still aren’t ....the 2& however, are actual spawns of Satan & they are loving what they have done….its a Dictator & a banksters wet dream come true….!

Let me make my self perfectly clear….........THE 2% HAVE INDEED HIJACKED THE U.S. TREASURY…...THE AMERICAN PEOPLES WEALTH…...!  & THEY HAVE BEEN FUNNELING OUR WEALTH…..TO THE TUNE OF QUINTILLIONS OF DOLLARS INTO OVERSEAS TAX EXEMPT SAFE HAVENS FOR DECADES…..! WHAT HAVE WE RECEIVED IN RETURN…...? PINK SLIME HAMBURGER MEAT….FOOD STAMPS & FRAUDCLOSURES ....! A DIED IN THE WOOL COMMUNIST WELFARE NATION…..WELCOME TO THE ALTERED STATES OF AMERIKA…...! WHO DO WE HAVE TO BLAME…....? ALL OF THE TRAITOR POLITICIANS .....!

You’ve written a lot from a negative perspective.  Can’t you see the divine absurdity, the truly beautiful madness, the swarming, sweating, swallowing human drama in all you’ve described?  If you approve of God’s job performance, why not see things through his eyes: a divine comedy, a masterpiece of creationism, a profusion of life good bad and indifferent.  Embrace it - as God embraces you!

Oh yeah…!......I forgot to mention…..they are coming for your PUBLIC SECTOR JOBS TOO…!......its not going to be so cooshy when the cops & the firemen & the teachers & the city workers start getting the axe…..& go into fraudulently induced fraudclosureland….20 million Americans have already been to that hellhole…the place where all manufactured deadbeats go….....& guess what….? It doesn’t get better….first you start selling off your belongings to keep the lights on and before you know what hit you….boom boom…out go the lights….! & no one can help you because we’ve all been robbed of everything by these crooks…..If it sounds scary…..just wait…....its petrifying…..expect the suicide rate ......the divorce rate…...the murder rate & the robbery rate to skyrocket…..! & don’t wait for the cops to save you….they all got pink slipped….their will be a new cop in town…it will be blackwater .......foreign military…...U.N. BLACK OPS…HOMELAND INSECURITY…..& don’t try to get your sheckles out of the bank…....they will be closed for remodeling and when they reopen camp FED STREET…...you aren’t going to like it much….& if you refuse to accept it…...well…...there are FEMA interment camps waiting just for US….!

Sorry Matt…..if you can see any joy in so much sorrow than you are stark raving mad. There is no beauty in fraudulently induced slavery…. Have you heard the news today…...? Probably not…..it has only received a crawl line on Bloomberg news ....Israel & the Palestinians are about to blow each other up…& all CNN & the other Cretans can report on is Petraus is probably a no good traitor & not just to his wife….... & the vets ard getting screwed by the government because the poor govt is having a hard time transitioning from paper fraud to electronic fraud….& Ahmadinajad is on CNN talking about how he wants to blow the Zionists to kingdom come…...for 9/11….& other crimes against humanity…...its a global warzone and the worst is yet to come. God gave us free will & we really blew it…...now its manufactured war…on all of us…no…..no beauty to see here….and its going to get worse ....much worse…..& if we survive & come out with our lives, we will have our nation & freedom intact…..only by the grace of God….

CNN reporting 127,000 American warriors in long island still without power….& may I add…..this is all very soon ..coming to a theater near you…looks like its time to start stocking up on those blessed candles….....and other supplies cause its going to be a cruel…cruel winter ahead…it sure looks like its timd to batton down the hatches folks & pray…

I don’t believe Almighty God finds any humor in this Matt…...only Satan & his minions & cohorts would enjoy watching human suffering on such a massive scale. Like Biden ....& Hillary .....laughing & smirking at their own manufactured absurdity…...like 2 witches in a broom factory….or the devil in the middle of a crowded church….&.....the evil is about to hit a fever pitch very soon.

“We still have a supposedly Christian culture.”

No.

We have an modern culture based on democracy, secular government, science, and global media. It has a majority Christian population, but fortunately for the rest of us, its Constitution was framed as an entirely secular document that purposely made all religions equal under the law. More, that majority Christian population varies from conservative Catholics to social gospel protestants to sects that purposely avoid government entanglement.

So, no, we don’t have a Christian culture, and many of us—including many Christians whose theological views differ from yours—will battle you tooth and nail to keep your religious mores out of our legal system.

And we will win.

My suggestion is that you get accustomed to being a conservative Christian in a culture that isn’t.

Wow, Russell. Well said. Your wise words will likely be drowned out by fanatical tirades. But it was good to see a post that showed some connection to reality.

WOW RUSSELL….You will battle us tooth & nail to keep religion out of our legal system. ....? Too late ....! All of our laws are IN REALITY Roman Canon Law…. BABOOM….GOOGLE THE LAW OF CORPUS JURIS…....Have you read the U.S.CONSTITUTION….? We were founded in the faith…..One nation under God….Now I know that Satan wishes to subjorn perjury and replace the RULE OF LAW with THE LAW OF THE JUNGLE & in fact, have been quite successful in that evil endeavor. Mainly because the American people do not know their LEGAL RIGHTS or THE RULE OF LAW…..UNDER THE LAWS OF THIS LAND…....Satan has been trying all throughout history to overthrow Gods Laws & Gods Plan for mankind to be free & independent ....... he has never won the war to date…...

THE TRUTH IS….THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA IS MAJORITY CONSERVATIVE….THOUGH THE MEDIA WOULD HAVE THE MASSES BELIEVE SATAN OWNS THE PLACE…

GOOGLE 18 USC 1622…..PART I…..SECTION 79….......SUBJORNING PERJURY…...

SOBJORNING PERJURY IS A LEGAL TERM…..DESCRIBING THE ACT OF PRESENTING TESTIMONY THAT YOU KNOW IS MATERIALLY FALSE AS IF IT WERE FACTUAL….........

THE TRUTH IS…...WHEN YOU KNOW THE LAW…..YOU KNOW NOTHING THESE TRAITORS ARE TELLING US IS BASED IN EITHER LAW OR FACT…...! THEY ARE ALL USING BASELESS CLAIMS ........ TO COMMIT LAWLESSNESS IN THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA..!!!  OBAMA SAID WHAT WALL STREET DID WAS NOT NECESSARILY CRIMINAL ......JUST RECKLESS…....? WELL….NO WONDER OBAMA & HIS WIFE BOTH LOST THEIR LICENSES TO PRACTICE LAW IN THE STATE OF ILLINOIS…...!

THE TRUTH IS…...WE HAVE LOUSY TRAITORS WHO HAVE HIJACKED THE COUNTRY…......AND NO ONE KNOWS THEY ARE CRIMINALS BECAUSE MOST AMERICANS DON’T KNOW THEIR LEGAL RIGHTS OR THE RULE OF LAW…...& HELLO…..THE ATTORNEYS ARE TRAITORS WHO WON’T TELL THEM…...!

Ivent,
I have two words for you: GET HELP!
I don’t know you, but I can clearly see that you have an obsession that requires you to seek out a secular, professional psychologist. If you read other blogs, you will see sane and rational discussions on the state of affairs of religion and politics. You are well read and can add a lot to a discussion, but you are over the top with your obsessions. I’m sure that the people around you are genuinely concerned for your well being. Please get help for your own sake and for the sake of those who care for you. Don’t go to a priest. I don’t think a priest can help you. Go to a professional. Catholic charities provides somewhat secular assistance if it would make you comfortable to go to a Catholic provider. It should be covered by your insurance.

WE THE PEOPLE ..........AS US CITIZENS…....WHO PAY TAXES…..DEMAND TO SEE THE GENERAL ACCOUNTING LEDGERS OF THE U.S. TREASURY DEPARTMENT .........FOR THE PAST 30 YEARS…...BECAUSE THAT IS OUR LEGAL RIGHT .....TO FOLLOW OUR MONEY…....! NOW…....THAT DOES NOT REQUIRE A FOIA REQUEST OR AN ACT OF GOD….NO…..THAT IS THE RULE OF LAW…IN THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA…..AND TO THE REPUBLIC FOR WHICH IT STANDS…...ONE NATION UNDER GOD…...WITH LIBERTY & JUSTICE FOR ALL…...STOP OBSTRUCTING JUSTICE…..NOW…!

SING IT AMERICA…..GOD BLESS AMERICA…..LAND THAT I LOVE…..STAND BESIDE HER & GUIDE HER…..THROUGH THE NIGHT WITH A LIGHT FROM ABOVE….......NOW….SHOW US OUR MONEY YOU THIEVES…!

THE TRUTH IS…...AS U.S.CITIZENS…...WE ARE INDIVISIBLE…...UNDER THE RULE OF LAW OF THIS GREAT LAND…...THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA…....NOW SHOW US THE GENERAL ACCOUNTING LEDGERS FOR THE U.S. TREASURY DEPARTMENT….FOR THE LAST 30 YEARS…...BECAUSE THAT IS OUR LEGAL RIGHT AS U.S. CITIZENS SHOW US WHERE ALL OF OUR MONEY WENT…..NOW..!

SPEAKING THE GODS HONEST TRUTH IN THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA…....MAKES YOU NUTS &  DANGEROUS IN THE FREEIST COUNTRY ON THE PLANET…..? OH HELL NO…....! THE TRUTH IS…..KNOWING THE TRUTH IS PERFECTION…..AMENDMENT 7/1….TELLING THE TRUTH IS AN EXPRESSION OF GODS LOVE..VIA….AMENDMENT 1/8…..AND LIVING THE TRUTH IS PERFECTION OF GODS PLAN…..ARTICLE 1/7…......AND THAT IS THE COMPLETION OF GODS PLAN…..FOR AMENDMENT 9….....WE THE PEOPLE…...AKA…...THE GOD PARTICLE…TO BE FREE & INDEPENDENT ........!

On the other hand, venting, better to be a prophetic windbag than a pusillanimous mouse.

Fareed Zakariah on CNN…..says…..GAY RIGHTS IS THE CIVIL RIGHTS ISSUE OF OUR TIME…..! OH HELL NO ITS NOT…...! THE FREEDOM & INDEPENDENCE OF EVERY AMERICAN CITIZEN IS THE ONLY CIVIL RIGHTS ISSUE OF OUR TIME…! STOP DIVERTING THE TRUTH….....&  SHOW US WHERE ALL OUR MONEY WENT YOU LOUSY LYING CROOKS…..!

Prophetic windbag…....OH HELL NO…...! I SPEAK THE TRUTH…..THE WHOLE TRUTH & NOTHING BUT THE TRUTH….SO HELP ME GOD…....& YOU CAN EASILY VERIFY THAT….......!

There is a decisive battle raging between Satan & the woman…

There is direct opposition to the completion of Gods Plan for all of mankind to be free & independent by perfection….PERFECTION IS ALL OF MANKIND KNOWING THE TRUTH ABOUT THE COMPLETION OF GODS PLAN FOR MANKIND…..that opposition is against the woman who IS revealing THE TRUTH….about all of Satan’s evil plans for mankind…...that woman is…THE BLESSED MOTHER OF GOD…...

Amazing grace….how sweet the sound ....who saved a wretch like me….

Who will save the wretches….?  Gods Grace….......The Grace of God is the blessed mother of God….the amazing light of Gods love for all of mankind…...which can only be perfected by hearing, knowing & speaking THE TRUTH….by the Grace of God….......about the completion of Gods Plan for mankind…...to be FREE & INDEPENDENT ......AUDIT THE TREASURY….MAKE THE CROOKS PAY US BACK IN GOLD…..ISSUE OUR OWN CURRENCY VIA STATE BANKS….ABOLISH THE FEDSTERS….! THAT WILL BE THE PERFECTION OF GODS PLAN FOR MANKIND…..THE COMPLETION WILL COME WHEN EVERYONE BELIEVES IN ONE GOD…..THE MAKER OF HEAVEN & EARTH….OF ALL THAT IS SEEN & UNSEEN…WHO IS….THE LORD OUR GOD….WHO LIVES & REIGNS WITH US…...THROUGH US….WITH US & IN US…..IN OUR DNA….AKA ....WHAT SATAN WISHES TO DESTROY ....WHAT IS KNOWN AS…....THE GOD PARTICLE…

WE THE PEOPLE ARE ON THE ROAD TO PERFECTION…...& THE COMPLETION OF GODS PLAN…..FOR ALL OF MANKIND TO BE FREE & INDEPENDENT ......THE 9TH AMENDMENT & THE 11TH AMENDMENT WILL JOIN….IN JOYFUL HOPE OF THE COMING OF OUR SAVIOR ...THE LORD ...JESUS CHRIST…&...THE COMPLETION OF GODS PLAN FOR MANKIND…TO BE FREE & INDEPENDENT ..UNDER THE RULE OF GODS LAWS…..NOT THE LAW OF THE JUNGLE…AKA…..SOCIAL JUSTICE THEORIES…..& TAXATION…

By the perfection of article 7…....by article 3 we will have the completeness…...by….artticle 10….THE RULE OF LAW OF THE PEOPLE OF THE STATES…........of article 9…...the maker of the notes…..VIA…...THE UNIVERSAL COMMERCIAL CODE…..ADOPTED BY EVERY STATE IN THE UNION…..

The UCC HAS BEEN ADOPTED INTO LAW IN PART OR IN FULL ALL 50 STATES…..

Perfection can only be perfected by filing ..article 10….if acceptance & consideration is proven…..by delivery & confirmation UCC ARTICLES 1-4…..OF THE UCC….

These crooks are trying to block justice….....and are using ARTICLE 10 of the UCC to try & block the 10th AMENDMENT….they are using deception to stop the completion of gods plan ........
Google & Read article 10 of the UCC…in your state…..
NOW READ THE TENTH AMENDMENT….OF THE U.S. CONSTITUTION…....THE SUPREME RULE OF LAW…
IN THE U.S.A…
AMENDMENT 10…........THE POWERS NOT DELEGATED TO THE UNITED STATES BY THE CONSTITUTION, NOR PROHIBITED BY IT TO THE STATES, ARE RESERVED TO THE STATES RESPECTIVELY, OR TO THE PEOPLE…...

Therefore by amendment 9…the maker of the notes…....we the people must invoke our 10th amendment right…..in fraudclosure…..

Just in case you missed my last post, here it is again.

Ivent,
I have two words for you: GET HELP!
I don’t know you, but I can clearly see that you have an obsession that requires you to seek out a secular, professional psychologist. If you read other blogs, you will see sane and rational discussions on the state of affairs of religion and politics. You are well read and can add a lot to a discussion, but you are over the top with your obsessions. I’m sure that the people around you are genuinely concerned for your well being. Please get help for your own sake and for the sake of those who care for you. Don’t go to a priest. I don’t think a priest can help you. Go to a professional. Catholic charities provides somewhat secular assistance if it would make you comfortable to go to a Catholic provider. It should be covered by your insurance.

Please allow me to PERFECT my comment at 3:17…p.m…..BY THE PERFECTION OF ARTICLE 7…..BY UCC SECTION 3…..ARTICLES 1-4…BY INVOKING AMENDMENT 10 .....WE THE PEOPLE…AMENDMENT 9 ........THE MAKER OF THE THE NOTES…..WE THE PEOPLE WILL JOIN THE 11TH AMENDMENT…...& WE WILL COMPLETE GODS PERFECT 10..THE RULE OF LAW…......GODS PLAN FOR MANKIND TO BE FREE & INDEPENDENT .....

Then you will be married to the truth…by Gods righteousness…..

Bill S…YOU ARE A LIAR…..BY DECEPTION….....and therefore…....by THE RULE OF LAW IN U.S. & COMMON LAW .....THE INTENT TO DECEIVE IS CRIMINAL….....YOU ARE A FELON…..3 FELONIES = LIFE IN PRISON IN THE HELLFIRE ON EARTH YOU CREATED BY SECRETS….LIES & DECEPTION…..........THAT GOES FOR EVERY ONE OF YOU CROOKS…..THE REDEMPTION OF YOUR MORTAL SOULS IS JUST ABOUT TO END….....AND THE SAVING OF YOUR ROTTEN IMMORTAL SOULS FROM BURNING IN HELL FOR ALL OF ETERNITY FOR DECEIVING & LYING TO THE PEOPLE WILL BE BETWEEN YOU & YOUR MAKER…....SAVE YOURSELF WHILE YOU CAN & TELL THE TRUTH…...THE FISCAL CLIFF IS CRIMINAL FRAUD….& SO IS THE NATIONAL DEBT….DEMAND THESE CROOKS AUDIT THE TREASURY NOW AMERICA….!

Ivent,

I am just showing concern for your mental health. You are suffering from an extreme case paranoia. I am not a liar. You are seriously ill.  Your obsessions have taken over your entire personality. If you keep it up you will need to be hospitalized. What will happen to tour freedom and independence then?

I speak the whole truth ....there is nothing crazy about that…...however, what I am concerned with is your spiritual health Bill..money can’t buy that…..

If what you are saying is true, then how come it isn’t all over the network news and in the major newspapers?  Even if there is any truth to anything you are saying, you are still obsessed with your major (to you, not to me) news stories and with your religion.  There is no balance in your life. You are too one dimensional. You need to broaden your horizons and enjoy this life for all that it is worth. Peace.

Yeah right Bill…as if you don’t know this is the biggest criminal cover up, for the biggest criminal transfer of wealth from MAINSTREET to WALL STREET…..... to the FEDSTERS in U.S. HISTORY….......THE FEDSTERS PRIVATIZED ALL OUR WEALTH OVERSEAS VIA THE PATRIOT ACT…....BY CRIMINAL NON-DISCLOSURE…....& HANDED THE PUBLIC….WE THE PEOPLE….THE MAKERS OF THE NOTES…...A QUADRILLION DOLLARS IN CREDIT FRAUD…......& INDENTURED SLAVERY FOR THE CRIMEE OF THE FEDSTERS VIA THE BANKSTERS VIA WALL STREET…....& THE MEDIA IS NOT GOING TO TELL YOU THAT…..EITHER ARE THE POLITICIANS….THE ATTORNEYS OR THE POLITICIANS BECAUSE THESE TRAITORS ALL GOT RICH FROM OUR ROBBERY…....SEE THE DOCUMENTARIES….PLUNDER THE CRIME OF OUR TIME…..&........INSIDE JOB…...

OMIT ONE POLITICIANS…...ADD JUDGES….& LAW ENFORCEMIT…...

Peace & harmony Bill…...

I’m glad you have those words in your vocabulary. And that you used your indoor voice with no upper case.

Too many Americans are not paying attention Bill…...they clearly do not know what is at stake here…therefore, I feel a strong urgency to ALERT THE PEOPLE…...& unfortunately…. ....... sometimes yelling is necessary…........the military uses it & quite frankly ....in case no one has noticed…..we are at war, and we have been since 9/11…....When you hear of wars far away & close at hand…...IT’S TIME TO WAKE UP AMERICA….!

Ok. You seem more sane now. I’m following you. Interesting stuff if you can present it logically. Where do you get the “quadrillion”?

Here is the link Bill S…....BIG RISK…..$1.2 QUADRILLION DERIVATIVES MARKET DWARFS WORLD GDP…
http://www.dailyfinance.com/2010/06/09/risk-quadrillion-derivatives-market-gdp/

The quadrillion is a stylized dance of the 18th Century.  In it the participants weave in and out barely touching each other while the music of Mozart or Boccherini is played.  It is an artistic response to the contemporaneous perception that life is discontinuous and absurd, and that any day now the bohemians will come and sweep away all civility.  It was replaced in common practice by the fruug.  The quadrillion is still used in certain areas of Louisiana and Kentucky, but has been substantially replaced by fruug-like dances everywhere else.

Thank you, Matt. That wasn’t the quadrillion I was referring to, but it’s interesting.

Ivent, I’m sorry I doubted you. Just lighten up a bit though. There’s nothing you can do about it.

To Lisa Kaiser: apparently God’s words (nor human words explaining God’s words)are reaching you. Only the wisdom of the Holy Spirit can convict one of Truth - and there is only 1 Truth, that being the 2nd person of the Holy Trinity, Jesus Christ. God clearly states in both the Old & New Testaments that gay sex is an abomination to Him. He loves us so much that He gave us free will to choose Him or not, and Jesus clearly states “who is not for us is against us”. You may think that you & all who are blinded by this culture of sin & death are winning the battle to have gay sex “marriage” legal, but victory ultimately belongs to Jesus Christ. When Jesus returns, HE WILL WIN THE FINAL BATTLE OVER SIN & DEATH, and since gay sex is clearly stated as sin (read Leviticus 18:22 - you should read the entire 18th chapter to be enlightened), all who participate and advocate gay sex will lose the battle finale. Simply stated: you & all who choose to go against God’s word will lose & succumb to God’s wrath in the end! Lord, have mercy on us all.

Vinny B,

I find that kind of talk to be very disturbing. First of all, Leviticus has no application to 21st-century America. Secondly, the American people have had it with religious fanaticism. I suggest that you try to adapt to the times And lose the Bible thumping attitude.

Sorry Bill, but God’s words in the New Testament (Matthew 24:35) through Jesus Christ, are quite clear: “Heaven & Earth may pass away, but my words will never pass away”. This is more than adequate proof that we don’t need to “adapt to the times”. The problem is people want to pick & choose which parts of the bible apply, so you need to get with it and realize that God doesn’t adapt with the times, and neither do His true followers. I assume you think that Matthew’s gospel of Jesus needs to be adapted too? We either choose Him and all of His words or not. I am not a fanatic, but a follower of God speaking the simple truth that cuts like a knife in this culture of death. But then again, Jesus told us in the Sermon on the Mount that those who stand up for truth & righteousness we will be persecuted for doing so. Your accusation of “fanaticism” certainly fits the “Bill”.

“those who stand up for truth & righteousness we will be persecuted for doing so.”

Being called a “religious fanatic” doesn’t really compare with real persecution. If anything, people like you are striving to persecute gays because some writer of what should have been an obscure ancient text said that it is discussing for a man to lay down with another man. To that statement you assign the label of “truth”. Sorry, but the voters in four states didn’t see it that way. I trust them, not an ancient scribble.

Quintillion (Q) is a constant, like pi(3.14159), or e (2.7128), and represents the average biweekly take home pay of 50,000,000 lives lost to improper capital and moral formation in the economy.  Numerically, Q is the difference between a Highly Performing Economy (HPE), and A Sluggish, Lackluster Economy (SLE).  In practice some of this difference is made up by sales of coffee and other stimulants.  Q is thought to increase exponentially with the passing of time, but this hypothesis does not take into consideration limiting factors like wars, famine and post-secondary education.

Bill, you’ll slather over Euripedes and Plato, but you have a hard time with Joshua and Ruth.  There’s an ancient appellation for people like you: Philistine.

Persecution comes in all forms - not just those being tortured or put to death. Do you expect people that read the National Catholic Register website are not going to defend their Catholic faith because you don’t agree with it? You don’t even know me and are calling me a fanatic. And for the record, I’m a woman, despite my name. And I’m not striving to persecute gays. Gay sex is wrong because God says it’s wrong - and it’s written so in the new testament too, as well as taught by the Catholic Church. I’m sorry that you think Sacred Scripture is equivalent to “ancient scribble”; to insinuate this is saying that God didn’t speak Truth through Moses, the prophets, Jesus Christ, St. Paul or any other biblical author and is essentially obliterating God’s words. As a Catholic Christian, I’m obligated to understand my faith from both Scripture & Church teachings. I’m not persecuting anyone who goes against God, I’m simply stating that God will do so Himself on judgment day. We will all have to answer for our sins, every one of us (there are no exceptions), and when we go against God’s words, we need to expect the consequences for our sins, not just that of gay sex, but since that was the topic that was being vehemently argued about for much of the comments in this post, that was the reason for my original post.

“Gay sex is wrong because God says it’s wrong - and it’s written so in the new testament too, as well as taught by the Catholic Church. “

Someone as fallible as you or me said it was wrong. I don’t believe that person was God. It is only mentioned in the NT by Paul about the Romans. The Catholic Church is not to be trusted as a moral compass.

I’m glad that I live at a time and in a place when and where the things you have to say are seen as so much silliness. The electorate of this country will never adopt your views again. This country has turned a corner with this last election and will never look back. You might as well learn to live with it.

God purposely chose all of the authors to speak His words in Sacred Scripture. Again, you have free will to choose to believe that or not. It’s your loss if you cannot accept God’s truth through Scripture.

You state: “The electorate of this country will never adopt your views again. This country has turned a corner with this last election and will never look back. You might as well learn to live with it.”
I can live with it on this earth because I know it’s all temporary. You are deceived because although you may think you’re winning the battle here on earth, you will lose the ultimate war. When our bodies die and our souls live on for eternity, YOU WILL HAVE TO ACCEPT GOD’S TRUTH or deal with the consequences. It will be God’s way, not your way, my way, the United States’ way, or anyone else’s way. Your trust in human beings is pathetically shallow and you will eventually be forced to learn the truth, and God willing it won’t be too late. You are not immortal, but given your level of delusion, perhaps you think you will live forever here on earth. I’m happy to know that I will pass from this earth and have the opportunity to spend an eternity with my Creator in peace, love, joy and praising God for an eternity. I wish God’s truth be upon you and may you be blessed with peace & happiness. Amen.

The quadrillion dollars is electronic fraud and it is the microchipped Mark of the Beast. The synagogue of satan fully intends to enslave mankind to it. Read about them here…..  http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread878325/pg1

Sorry Vinny…I don’t agree this country JUST TURNED A CORNER….The latest war with these demons began on 9/11….however,  this same war has been going on all through history. What we are experiencing right now is the culmination of decades of secrets, lies and deceptions by the malefactor by his agents to defraud mankind of their freedom & independence ....which is Gods Plan for mankind. The corner we turned is the corner to fraudulently induced hell….The final battle could come in our lifetimes. God said there would be an awakening before the time of the end and told us to watch for the signs so we are able to reject Satan & all of his evil works.

Ivent: It was I who said this country has turned a corner. Not Vinny.  You and Vinny are going to believe what you’re going to believe no matter what I say. Whatever gets you through life. Peace.

I don’t believe anyone gets into the fathers house who lived Satans lies their entire existence ... Many believe if they go along with Satan’s evil plans for mankind they will be safe. That is a grave deception. That is why I pray for these people. Esp. Those in the military & law enforcement where Satan has set his most evil snares. Thou shall not kill has been used as a weapon to blaspheme the Lord under the guise of freedom. War is not freedom. Debt is not freedom. The microchipped mark of the beast credit system is the weapon Satan wishes to use to destroy us and Gods Plan for mankind to be free & independent.

Sorry vinny…...& bill….... The Lord works in subtle ways….......& Satan tries to mimic him but he can’t ........because he is a counterfeiter.

Read about the SYNAGOGUE OF SATAN at this link….....  http://www.texemarrs.com/032007/synagogue_of_satan_article.htm

The satanists have unleashed the nihilists & the atheists on the people. They use religion, their rigged financial system,  politics, education, media, law enforcement, the judiciary, & the military to ensnare the people in their evil web of secrets, lies, deception. To defraud ALL OF US of Gods Plan for mankind to be free & independent. Beware the deceivers. Trust but verify, if you cannot verify, do not trust. If something does not make sense….start looking for the fraud. Satan has set many traps & snares to enslave the people to his evil plan.

The main snare the malefactor is using to entrap the people is fraudulently induced debt & credit. This entire financial crisis and war on terrir has been completely manufactured by Satan’s cohorts & minions. Accept no new fraudulently induced debt in the form of credit or taxation. The FED is insolvent. They are counterfeiting criminals who robbed US & deadbeats who don’t want to pay their debts to mankind or pay back the U.S. TREASURY .....AKA WE THE PEOPLE…..FOR THE ORIGINATION FRAUD & THE USURY FRAUD & THE TAX FRAUD THEY COMMITTED AGSINST US…THE FED OWES US GAZILLIONS….THE NATIONAL DEBT & THE FISCAL CLIFF IS ALL CRIMINAL FRAUD…..USURY THE FED HAS STOLEN FROM US TO PAY THEMSELVES & THEIR CRIMINAL FRIENDS BOTH FOREIGN & DOMESTIC FOR ROBBING US INTO SUBMISSION….DON’T SUBMIT AMERICA….! DENY….DENY….DENY & REJECT THEM & ALL OF THEIR EVIL PLANS FOR MANKIND…..!

Credit….debit & debt is our real enemy America…....! Reject it..!

WE THE PEOPLE POWER….! Time to unite in one cause America…....FREEDOM & INDEPENDENCE FROM FRAUDULENTLY INDUCED DEBT ENSLAVEMENT BY THE FEDSTERS….THE BANKSTERS…...WALL STREET…..THE POLITICIANS….& THE JUDICIARY ...! 9/11 & THE FINANCIAL CRISIS IS A MANUFACTURED FRAUD….IT IS SATANS WAR ON THE PEOPLE TO STEAL ALL OF OUR FREEDOM & INDEPENDENCE ....!

Ivent: You are aware that you’re preaching to a very small audience, are you not?  There may be at best three or four people who are reading your posts.  Don’t you think you should find a wider audience?

I go wherever the Good Lord leads me Bill. That’s all I can do. I have no wealth, fame or political power. I am doing my best to share & spread Gods message of truth and wake up the flock to the fact we are living in the most perilous time in history. I believe we have passed the crossroad & we are at the precipice of the final battle. We all need to pray & look to the blessed mother for guidance. Her message is our only hope for our own salvation. Satan is squeezing & stealing the souls of the people in record numbers. We need to pray for our Lord to have mercy on our souls and intervene. Too many have lost their faith and are believing the lies they were sold & told. That angers the Lord. I believe by Gods grace, there will be a final warning for mankind to repent and stop their wicked ways. I pray it doesn’t get that far.

I should say I have no material wealth…..I know Gods truth and that is true wealth. Because, when you know the Gods honest truth, you are truly free & independent. When God speaks…people should listen. God is subtle but God is here through his mother. That is why Satan has waged his war against her. We should listen to our mother. Gods grace.

That is why all of my stocks are invested in the Lord….he holds my bond…..no one else.

Amazing Grace how sweet the sound who saved a wretch like me.

Silly Billy, the Bible just doesn’t declare something “wrong,” and let the case rest at that.  If that were so, we would be talking about Mao’s little red book: short, illiterate and dictatorial.  No, my friend.  The Bible declares something wrong (in God’s Name) and then lays out 20 or 30 reasons why; gives an accurate and timely prediction of what will happen if you disobey; and then leads you on the path home once you’ve put your foot in it, really good.  You don’t have to take Scripture on faith - it is demonstrably true.  Go back to those “few, insignificant, easily overlooked” passages to see what your life will look like in the next 5, 10 and 20 years.  Turn the corner indeed!

“The Bible declares something wrong (in God’s Name) and then lays out 20 or 30 reasons
why”

Where in the Bible do you see 20 or 30 reasons why something is wrong?

I see this differently than you Matt…....Almighty God is giving his flock a chance, through the Amazing Grace of our blessed mother…to save themselves and sinners time to redeem themselves but, the time is growing short. The time of the end could be shorter than you think if the people don’t start to repent from their evil ways and save their rotting souls.  It all starts with the individual ....YOU are the only one who can do that…The Bible is a guide and Satan has placed his snares even in the word of God. Satan counterfeits the truth….he is jealous of God…..God is jealous of the way we have allowed Satan to deceive us.  Because of that we have lost our faith. .Beware the deceivers..

William, I’m no scholar.  However I will attempt to provide you a few examples of what I describe:

Deut. Chapter 28
Psalm 119
Isaiah Ch. 24
Jeremiah Ch. 5
Ezekiel Ch. 14
Ephesians Ch. 5
1 John Ch. 4

In fact, the whole Bible is a tutorial on life, from the Father to his children.  The problem is, we’re so conditioned by our education to read charts and graphs, but rendered completely inapt to elucidating a simple sentence.  I’ll translate:  God is your Father, you are his son.  Live up to it.

Thanks for your considerate mien.

The truth is Matt…you can’t live up to the truth if you don’t know the truth about what Gods plan for mankind is ...FOR ALL OF MANKIND TO BE FREE & INDEPENDENT .... The Bible can only put you on the path to righteousness ..... and Gods kingdom on heaven & earth. That is what Satan wishes to usurp…...the path to God is straight & narrow…..the path to Satan is wide, crooked, treachorous and it is easy to take wrong turns…

Hopefully, the truth about Gods plan will become the new mein. Believing the word of Gods will get us back on the right path…..Anyone who obstructs Gods truth & justice is our enemy…..There has been no accounting for 9/11 or the financial fraud of the FED via the banks &  Wall Street to date. That is wrong. That is lawlessness in disguise.

Satan where’s many disguises…you will know him by his secrets, lies, & deceptions he tries to make you believe. What the politicians, the FED, Wall Street & the Banks did to the American people WAS, IN FACT CRIMINAL…..NOT RECKLESS as Obama stated.

& they are still committing the same crimes against WE THE PEOPLE…...to this very day….

The Politicians, the FED, the banks, Wall Street, the heads of the military, law enforcement, our religious leaders, the media, the heads of law enforcement, education, the heads of the mulinational corps, the medical establishment, and the judiciary have BETRAYED US…..& HAVE DISHONORED WE THE PEOPLE…..They have robbed the people of almost all of their freedom & independence by decades of criminal secrets, lies, deception, fraud, abuse & neglect.

WE THE PEOPLE have been given NO CONSIDERATION…...NOTHING OF VALUE .....IN RETURN FOR ISSUING THE FED OUR CURRENCY IN EXCHANGE FOR WORTHLESS CREDIT…...WE HAVE ACCEPTED OUR OWN ROBBERY….OF ALL OF OUR FREEDOM & INDEPENDENCE FOR NOTHING OF VALUE…..ARE WE BETTER OFF SINCE THE FED HIJACKED THE TREASURY….OUR WEALTH…? ABSOLUTELY ...UNEQUIVOCALLY ....NO…!

The FED INVESTORS & THE BANK CORP INVESTORS ARE CONTROLLING THE ISSUANCE OF OUR CURRENCY VIA THE FED VIA POLITICIANS…..THE MULTINATIONAL BANKCORP….&...WALL STREET….....THEY HAVE HIJACKED THE U.S. TREASURY…..THEY ARE ROBBING US OF OUR REMAINING WEALTH…....TAKE THE MONEY OUT AMERICA…...THEY HAVE BROKE THE SOCIAL & LEGAL CONTRACTS…....THEY ARE ALL IMPOSTORS & FRAUDS….!

I agree about the culture. The problem though is that elections have consequences. Many people seem to be ignoring where the fiscal demise of the USA will lead. Obama has piled on almost 6 TRILLION dollars of debt in 4 years; this is disastrous. It can’t go on forever, and when Americans have to face the music it won’t be pleasant. That’s the biggest social justice issue of all.

There’s a simple test, Iventing.  Assume the worst and go from there.  I assume all you say is true.  How will it affect my actions and behavior?  Will it change how I shave in the morning, or drive to work?  Am I going to defer on my daily obligations because Bernanke is an arrant con-man and Obama is a crook?  Assume all the things you elaborate are true (I’ve completely lost count).  How does it change your behavior?  This reminds me of “The Revengers Tragedy” where the brother realizes his sister has been violated by the Duke.  He can’t eat or sleep, and forms a sworn cabal to put that bad Duke to death.  (They do.)  However, it also precipitaties their own tragic demise.  Get it?  Get on with it.

And since I can’t sleep either, I ask you in all simplicity: what then?  What is your plan of action to address these sinister machinations?  Knowing is one thing; doing is something completely “other.”  I’m guessing that the Iventing plan is long on rhetoric and short on actionables. 

This is where you prove to me that you’re not a cowardly lion stuck with a thorn in his paw out moaning in the woods.  If you can give me 3 responses to “our hopeless situation” I will recant my view of you as random number generator hooked into MS Word.

Take the money out of their criminal hands. & revolt on the mortgages & property taxes until the crooks at the FED pay back the treasury what they stole…& our own currency is issued via state banks..there wont be a change until we have a real tea party. No politician is going to tell you that…

Obama can’t help….these crooks own him….Congress has the power to stop TBTF & all of Obamas fascist eo’s….....but they won’t BECAUSE CONGRESS WROTE THEM…......CONGRESS CAN INVOKE THEIR POWER BUT THEY ARE OF THE DEVIL…ONLY WE THE PEOPLE HAVE POWER OVER ALL OF THEM VIA THE CONSTITUTION…..TAKE THE MONEY OUT…..THAT IS THE ONKY LANGUAGE THEY UNDERSTAND BECAUSE THEY WORSHIP THE FED BEAST….......!

Oops…correct typo….TAKE THE MONEY OUT IS THE ONLY LANGUAGE THESE CROOKS UNDERSTAND…....IF WE THE PEOPLE DON’T TAKE THE MONEY OUT…...THE FED WILL…...

I’ll help you with your plan:

Disengage from the money economy.  Spend as little as possible - nothing on luxury items.  The “gravy train” lives on overspending.

Save by investing in local projects and people.  Give money to people you know in need.  It will pay off better dividends in the long run.  (But don’t expect to get any of it back.)

Vote “no” in every election.  Recycle the crooks.  Turn out incumbents.  After a few “turnouts” even politicians get the message.

Establish banking relationships with small or regional banks.  They may be higher risk, but the banker will know you when you walk through the door.

Shop in your own neighborhood and not on-line.

Disengage yourself from the Big Money Machine: big banks, brokerage houses, insurance companies, and government.  Don’t expect anything from social security.  Don’t be a client of the patron state.  Do it yourself.  Pay your taxes and forget about it.

Start tithing.  This is the surest way to develop effective subsidiarity.  However, make sure your pastor keeps the church open for prayer, even if “it might be vandalized.”

Remember you are your kids first and best teacher.  How you educate your kids determines if you get into heaven.  I know I don’t want to leave my eternal salvation to the NEA.

Stay with your spouse even if he or she has the temerity to grow cranky and old.  Marriage is the surest form of social security.

Spend as little time as possible chasing avatars.  Reality ends at your fingertips.

Congratulations Iventing, on your timorous steps toward establishing a solution.  You graduate from hollow drum to holy roller.

If telling the truth makes me a holy roller than, so be it. Guilty as charged….& peace be with you my friend.

Matt…you can’t disengage unless there is a revolt on the mortgages & the property taxes….The FED owes the American people gazillions. AN EYE FOR AN EYE IS WHAT IS NEEDED…

TAKE THE MONEY OUT AMERICA OR THE FEDSTERS WILL…..PERMANENTLY ....!

Make no mistake Matt….. my speaking the truth by exposing all of the fraud is not being weak,  timid or nervous. Read all of my comments….I do not fear them…I reject them & all of their evil works.

And peace be to you as well.

Out of the Petraus scandal comes the real name for the biggest fraud committed against the American people in U.S. HISTORY…...AS USUAL FINDING THE FRAUD REVEALS THE TRUTH…..AND…....THE BETRAY US SCANDAL…...

Even a more sick & sordid but,  entirely true name for this would be .......WHY ARE WE THE PEOPLE, WHO PAY FOR EVERYTHING UPFRONT…..IN THIS NOW WRETCHED PLACE…..... CONTINUE ALLOWING THESE CROOKS TO CONTINUE TO BETRAY US…..WHEN WE KNOW THEY ARE IN FACT, BETRAYING US….WITH IMPUNITY…....EVERYDAY….?????

CNN just reported…that house in Indy that blew up the other day…blew up for no reason…no bomb and no gas explosion…& Venice is flooded….WAKE UP AMERICA….DID YOU HEAR THAT….? VENICE IS FLOODED…!..and a woman, a storm victim from NY said…I pay my mortgage & I pay taxes and The FEDERAL GOVERNMENT doesn’t give a damn about her…..! Well no s#!t…! my response to that…don’t pay them anymore of your money ..they are out of their jurisdiction anyway operating on U.S. SOIL…and they really don’t give a s#!t about you…...because they don’t like US…..AT ALL….! & FEMA ....ITS ALL A GIANT FRAUD ....A SMOKESCREEN FOR OUR ROBBERY…....A WAY TO FUNNEL OUR MONEY INTO THE POCKETS OF OUR ENEMIES….! DISASTER RELIEF ON U.S. SOIL IS the U.S. Mlitarys job THE NATIONAL GUARD SHOULD BE THERE HELPING THEIR PEOPLE…! GET A FREAKING CLUE…...OR YOU ARD ALL GOING TO DIE…!.The American people are brainwashed so the FED will throw a few sheckles at the imbeciles…..these people are freaking clinically braindead…...& will be taken off lifesupport…...soon by the FEDERATORS….! THEY ARE IMPOSTERS….! OBAMA HAS NO CONTROL OVER THE HESS GANG…..THESE GERMS WANT US TO DIE…....THEY WERE PLAYING THE AUSCWITZ DEATH MARCH ON CNN TONIGHT & GIVING US THE ROMAN SALUTE…...! WAKE THE HECK UP AMERICA….!

My father in law told me today…..with no prodding from me..that he thinks the Govt is trying to kill us all…well hello…! Welcome to fraudulently induced FEDSTER/BANKSTER HELL….! TAKE THE MONEY OUT AMERICA..BOYCOTT CHRIST-MAS….NOT ONLY WILL YOU TAKE THE MONEY OUT….BUT GUESS WHAT…...? BIBLICAL SCHOLARS HAVE COME TO THE CONCLUSION THAT….JESUS REAL BIRTHDATE IS…...BRACE YOURSELF…..SEPEMBER 11TH….! MWAHAHA!  MORE COUNTERFEITING BY THE FEDSTERS & THE BANKSTERS…..! They are evil geniuses right….? The counterfeit the date of our Lords birth….& they all get rich & they turned Jesus real birthdate into a horrible memory….! That is the diabolical & maniacal world of the synagogue of Satan….the son of Sam…the same crew who killed and destroyed the names & memories of our favorite movie & music stars…and even oj from what I have read….yep…the e-pit-o-me of evil….just google it folks…anything you want to know & do your own research & draw your own conclusions. Remember one thing…...they want it all…your pension money….& all of your wealth…..we are all wanted by the sos…...dead or alive..!

Holy do you Catholics ever whine and complain alot so I will help you all out by giving some advice. 1 If you think the government dont care about you then move I hear China is nice this time of year. 2 stop your complaining that your country aint christian enough if you want that build a time a machine and go back in time to the 16th century not one of you have the right to dictate or demand that everyone has to follow your faith and beliefs you live in a free country so everyone has the right to believe in what they want even if it is different then what you do. 3 stop !@#$% about Obama he is so much better then Romney and if you are all so holy then why not do something positive like help a family in need, feed the homeless or anything that does not require you to act like a selfish 5 year old that did not get what they demanded. This is the problem in this world everyone thinks of them selves and not enough of others.

Your writing skills could use some improvement but your points are well taken.

I can see that abortion survivor writhing, gasping on a metal examining table as his family, and the health care professionals turn off the light in his room - blessing Obama with his death-throes, and thanking God that we live in a truly civilized country, where the delicate sensitivities of post-traumatic abortive mothers are taken into consideration: they’ve suffered enough.  And after all, what would Romney or any other stooge polititian do to reverse the bloody tide?  That baby is dead as dead can be.  And so are the relevant family members, and so is the ruling elite, and so is America - which I guess includes you and me.

Kevin from Canada…..How do you know what China & Russia are like. ......? How do you know they aren’t just like where you & I live….?  Satan tries to counterfeit God. Satan is very deceptive.  I see the differences in our nations as being very subtle. Satan has very deceptively turned the people into slaves around the globe. China & Russia’s leaders may be abit more harsh but America is is not a Completely Communist country yet. The proof we are on the precipice is OBAMACARE, NDAA, THE PATRIOT ACT, TBTF IS BANKRUPTING THE COUNTRY, NO ACCOUNTABILITY FOR ANY CRIMES OF FINANCIAL TERROR 9/11, OR OTHER ACTS OF TREASON, ALL OF THE EO’s OBAMA HAS SIGNED INCLUDING THE WEAKENING OF THE POSSE COMITATUS ACT OF 1878…..GENERAL PETRAUS…....& ON & ON….....So Kev…..maybe you better keep an eye on and worry about your own house because Satan is sneaky. WE THE PEOPLE WHO GET IT WILL KEEP AN EYE ON OURS…..&...PEACE BE WITH YOU…

Kevin-Ontario ,
We didn’t have a United States of America in the 16th Century & recommending relocation to China reminds me of the
“Love It Or Leave It” type slogans targeting those who spoke out against the Vietnam War.It wasn’t good advice then nor now.
Those who love their country remain & work towards what is good.

Kevin from Ontario…....not only are you out of your physical boundaries but…...you are out of the realm of reality. Why do you care what we believe in the U.S…..?  For the most part, the American people are FED UP with ALL POLITICIANS ...but, even more importantly ....we are completely disgusted with MEDDLING FOREIGNERS, POLITICAL TRAITORS & IMPOSTERS…...So do yourself a favor..&.......Call someone who really cares what other nations think…..BECAUSE WE THE PEOPLE DON’T ..THEREFORE…..MYOB IRAN, THE MIDDLE EAST CANADA & RUSSIA & EUROPE & CHINA, SOUTH AMERICA BECAUSE WE THE PEOPLE DO NOT CARE WHAT YOU THINK OR BELIEVE….& IF YOU LOVE OBAMA & CO SO MUCH…..YOU CAN HAVE THEM…! WE THE PEOPLE HAVE HAD ENOUGH OF ALL OF YOU…...FOREIGNERS.

& guess what Kevin….?..WHINING IS OUR FAVORITE NATIONAL PASTTIME…....THATS RIGHT…..WE !@#$% & MOAN ABOUT EVERYTHING & EVERYONE HERE IN THE U.S…..ESP. TRAITORS & IMPOSTERS…..WE ARE IN A PERPETUAL STATE OF NATIONAL DISCOURSE BECAUSE OF POLITICAL TRAITORS & IMPOSTERS WHO ARE BURNING DOWN & BLOWING UP THE PLACE FROM WITHIN…CORRUPTION & TREASON HAVE FINALLY REACHED A FEVER PITCH WITH THE AMERICAN PEOPLE & WE ARE THROUGH PAYING FOR ALL OF IT…..SO IF YOU OR ANY FOREIGN ENTITY THINK WE OWE YOU ANY MONEY OR ANYTHING….YOU ARE IN THE WRONG LINE…....YOU NEED TO GET IN THE FEDSTER/BANKSTER LINE….& THE POLITICIANS WON’T TELL YOU THAT EITHER SO…...YOU NOW OWE ME FOR THAT INSIDE INFORMATION….

BEWARE THE SO CALLED FISCAL CLIFF AMERICA…....!  It is yet another act of treason against the American people by these traitors from within. It will bankrupt us and cause complete communism…..& the fraudulent inducement of the microchip in Obamacare & it will be the end of America…..ALL OF OUR FREEDOM & INDEPENDENCE WILL BE GONE….FORCE THE CROOKS TO PAY US BACK WHAT THEY STOLE…& STOP COMPLYING, COOPERATING & CONFORMING WITH FRAUD….! TAKE YOUR MONEY OUT OF THEIR GREEDY HANDS AMERICA…!

I’m in with Obama, he makes me feel cool
And isn’t that what I’m learning in school?
I’m cool when I’m loose, I’m cool when I’m tight
I always have something to make it all right

And when my balloon breaks, and things get real hot
I never need worry about what I’ve got
I hurry on down to my PPP, pay
And all of my troubles are washed clean away

For big daddy-O got it locked icy cold
I never need mention my skin has been sold
Just come round to papa again and again
This thrill of adventure just never grows old.

Kevin is right about one thing….the USA did not exist until the better part of humanity got sick & tired of living under tyrants & dictators….....and now it is time to clean our house up…..because the same tyrants & dictators we escaped…snuck back in…..& the traitor politicians opened up the door for them….therefore, OUR HOUSE ....THE PEOPLES HOUSE….....IS ABOUT TO GET A GOOD DEEP CLEANSING…& THE DOOR IS GOING TO GET SLAMMED CLOSED…FOR OUR GOOD & THE GOOD OF MANKIND…BY THE REAL OWNERS OF THIS PLACE…...THE PEOPLE WHO PAY FOR EVERYTHING UPFRONT…..THE MAKERS OF ALL THE NOTES….WE THE PEOPLE….!

Kevin & Bill S: neither do you have the right to dictate to us what we should and should not accept. George Washington gave a speech close to what is now Battery Park not long after signing the US Constitution and said that as long as the US remains a God-fearing country, we will flourish, and flourish we did for nearly 200 years. Battery Park - not far from 2001 attacks & devastation most recently from Hurricane Sandy. No coincidence - as we get further & further from God and his words, our country continues to decline at alarming speed. I wonder how many people in the US think we are flourishing now - with unemployment in double digits, foreclosures at record high, the middle class nearly wiped out, etc, etc. (see Ivent’s posts). We are morally destroying ourselves from inside out. For all who have eyes, let them see, for all who have ears, let them hear…

Right on Matt…! Thank God some of us taught or children well and taught them not to believe everything they are told by these morons.

Vinny…..I think matt was being sarcastic & speaking about the brainwashing…...myself & many other Americans see frankenstorm as Katrina for white people…..the FEDSTERS, in their effort to make Obama look bad…exposed themselves…& FEMA has no legal jurisdiction on U.S. SOIL…..AT ALL….& THAT IS THE U.S. MILITARYS JOB….& FEMA IS A MONEY FUNNELING BLACK OP .......FOR THE RICH….FED INVESTORS & BANK INVESTORS….SO TAKE YOUR MONEY OUT AMERICA…!

CLEARLY ....IT IS APPARENT THAT FEMA IS YET ANOTHER BIG FAT DECEPTION…...ANOTHER BIG LIE & A GIANT FRAUD….FEMA ARE YET ANOTHER PROXY…... ROBBERBARON FOR THE RICH…..WAKE UP AMERICA..!

Read about PRESIDENTIAL EXECUTIVE ORDERS HERE…. SECRET ABUSE OF POWER BY CONGRESS VIA THE EXECUTIVE BRANCH     http://www.this nation.com/question/040.html
....THIS IS HOW Treason is being committed on steroids by these traitor politicians AGAINST…...WE THE PEOPLE….CONGRESS has the power to strike or amend any EO…....EVEN AT WARTIME…..BUT THE TRAITOR POLITICIANS INSTEAD HAVE EMPOWERED OUR ENEMIES BY HANDING THEIR POWER OVER TO THE FEDSTERS. & THE BANKSTERS…...VIA THE EXECUTIVE BRANCH…....AND ONLY WE THE PEOPLE HAVE THE POWER TO OVERRIDE CONGRESS….BY THE U.S. CONSTITUTION & THE U.S. BILL OF RIGHTS…..&... REVOLT…...BY NON COOPERATION…NON COMPLIANCE & NON CONFORMITY…STATE MILITIAS & THE 2ND AMENDMENT .....!  THESE POLITICIANS ARE DESPICABLE TRAITORS & LYING SCUMBAGS…..& THEY ARE SECRETLY OVERRIDING THE U.S. CONSTITUTION…..BEHIND OUR BACKS…TO BURN THE CONSTITUTION & THE BILL OF RIGHTS & THEY ARE SECRETLY USING RULES FOR RADICALS AND THE U.S. BILL OF RIGHTS TO DO IT…..! REMEMBER ....THE U.S. CONSTITUTION GAVE NO SPECIAL POWERS TO THE POLITICIANS OR THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT…..NO….! THE TRAITOR POLITICIANS ARE SECRETLY HANDING OUR COUNTRY OVER TO OUR FOREIGN ENEMIES FROM WITHIN…..!

THESE TRAITORS ARE IN FACT…..USING WE THE PEOPLE…..TO DESTROY WE THE PEOPLE….OUR ENEMIES ARE BOTH CLOSE AT HAND & FAR AWAY….TIME TO TURN THE TABLES ON THEM…..& STRIKE & AMEND ALL OF THEIR FRAUD & TREASON BY INVOKING YOUR RIGHTS AMERICA…BEFORE ITS TOO LATE….!

Vinny P,

The economy will slowly but surely recover.  Economic cycles are…well, cylical.  Unemployment is NOT in double digits nationally.  Nationally unemployment is about 8%.  Granted within some populations/demographics employment is in the double digits, but not nationally.

WELCOME TO…..THE GENERAL BETRAY US SCANDAL…..TIME FOR A REAL TEA PARTY AMERICA…!....SUE THE FEDERAL RESERVE BANK & TAKE THE MONEY OUT…..AND FORCE THE FEDSTER CROOKS PAY US BACK….! THEY OWE WE THE AMERICAN PEOPLE….THE MAKERS OF ALL OF THE NOTES…... QUINTILLIONS…!

I disagree vinny…..financial crises & wars & other disasters are well planned and well engineered by mice….exposed by women…& destroyed by men…

Only honest men & women can take our country back from these crooks who have hijacked it. It will be up to the strong to take care of the weak.

Of mice and men are God & the woman…and faith…

Ivent: I agree that there are a bunch of crooked politicians, bankers, etc running this country into the ground. Point is this country is going to hell in a hand-basket because we have moved so far away from God. Can’t agree that mere mortals control the weather, though, so disasters as Sandy are not man-made by allowed by our Creator.

Lisa: this economy will never recover with Obama’s agenda - we are robbing Peter to pay Paul and saddling future generations with the trillions of dollars of debt that he CONTINUES to add to. Economic principals are quite simple - we are spending way more than we have - and he’s in the record books with his spending. For those out there that have never taken economics in school, in simple terms, money doesn’t grow on trees, but this administration continues to think money does grow on trees by printing & flooding the market with more and more US dollars which results in devaluing the dollar. This serves to compound the problem of an economy on the brink of the fiscal cliff (and all the theft, lies, conspiracies etc. that Ivent has been pointing out from all in authority on all levels of government - judicial, legislative, executive, and private corporations).

If you’re a Catholic before being a U.S. citizen, you should move to the Vatican. You cannot make a secular constitution into a Catholic one. It would make all other religions illegal—much like the Nazis made it legal to kill Jews, homosexuals, Gypsies, and any other non-Aryan race. And if Hitler himself wasn’t a Catholic, the Holocaust was fueled by Catholic beliefs and the Church was, at best, ineffectual in preventing the systematic slaughter of millions of innocent people.
.
God Bless America!

Ivent—
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You say a lot of things that aren’t meant to be true statements.

Google HAARP vinny. These politicians have abused their power & have no legal authority to do so. ....& WE THE PEOPLE PAID FOR ALL OF THE CRIMINAL SECRETS, LIES, DECEPTIONS, FRAUD & ABUSE OF POWER….UPFRONT….AT THE ORIGINATION FRAUD .......WE THE PEOPLE ARE WHO PAID FOR ALL OF THESE CRIMES AGAINST HUMANITY….GOD DOES NOT ALLOW THESE HORRORS…....PEOPLE DO..AS A RESULT OF OUR OWN WEAKNESSES…....WE ARE VERY WILLINGLY IN MOST CASES…..GIVING UP OUR GREATEST GIFT FROM GOD…..OUR FREE WILL & OUR MORTAL & QUITE POSSIBLY OUR ETERNAL SOULS…... IN GREAT NUMBERS….BECAUSE WE BELIEVED ALL OF THE LIES WE WERE TOLD AND NOW WE ARE JUST TO STUBBORN TO ADMIT…..THESE CROOKS SCREWED US….AND ITS TIME TO CLOSE THE SUICIDE DOORS…..RIGHT NOW..!

The truth is…a little over…....half of he country are morally & spiritually dead inside & as a result…..they are clinically braindead….meatheads….dead from the neck up…..and quite frankly have no souls…at all. They are self centered and think the private sector owes them….when in fact….they are the private sector as well..& in reality…they are screwing themselves…....and being told to so by the FEDSTER CROOKS .........THE BANKSTER CROOKS….THE WALL STREET CROOKS & THE VERY TRAITOR POLITICIANS WHO SCREWED THEM…!

The TRUTH IS…..THE AMERICAN PEOPLE ARE SLOWLY BECOMING A MIRROR IMAGE OF THE VERY CROOKS….TRAITORS & IMPOSTERS WHO ROBBED THEM & WE ARE IN FACT…...AS A PEOPLE ....BY BELIEVING ALL OF THE MANUFACTURED B.S…..AND NOT DEMANDING FULL ACCOUNTABILITY FOR THESE CRIMES AGAINST US…..WE ARE TRULY ALLOWING THESE CROOKS TO FORCE US TO DESTROY OURSELVES & OUR FREEDOM & INDEPENDENCE ....OUR OWN COUNTRY….....FROM THE INSIDE OUT…....!

fourmoreyearsofobama: God’s law is above any man-made law, whether it’s US, Vatican, China, Iran - you people just don’t get it. The final judge is God whether you like it or not. You will find out when you die. For people of faith, we don’t need to wait until we die to accept it and believe it because that’s what the gift of faith is all about. Knowing without having proof. 
And who is talking about killing gays? We are merely saying that their behavior is against God’s words. No one is seeking to hurt anyone, just enlighten them. And you should get your facts straight about the holocaust because although the Church and fellow Catholics didn’t stop Hitler completely, they did much good behind the scenes and saved many people’s lives and risked their own lives to do so. Don’t blame Catholics for Hitler’s free will and horrendous evil choices…that’s bigotry with a capital “B”.

In simpler terms…... more than half the nation are brainwashed and are in fact assassinating themselves….....yep….they are slitting their own throats literally by going along with the entire fraudulently induced program….they are destroying the country…...I estimate we at 70% full compliance with our own national suicide…

The just judge will judge in the end vinny…..but when that happens WE THE PEOPLE are to blame for allowing it to get that far…....and that’s THE TRUTH.

THE TRUTH IS…...SOON…..IF WE DON’T WAKE UP AS A NATION…..FREE WILL & OUR FAITH WILL BE ALL WE HAVE LEFT. THE BALL IS IN OUR COURT…..TIME TO UNIFY…& STOP COMPLYING, CONFORMING & COOPERATING WITH FRAUD….WE ARE AIDING & ABETTING THESE CRIMES AGAINST US BY NOT DEMANDING PROOF ........BY DOCUMENTATION…RECEIPTS…....THAT IS WHAT THESE POLITICIANS ARE COVERING UP…....THE FACT THAT….THESE CROOKS WHO ROBBED US…ARE TRAITORS FROM WITHIN…

“that’s what the gift of faith is all about. Knowing without having proof.”

“Believing” maybe. “Knowing” is a stretch.

Your faith is “knowing” things that aren’t even possible let alone proven.

I live by the laws of the land: federal, state and local. There are no laws of God that apply to everyone. You might agree to abide by them but that doesn’t mean others do.

You see, Ivent, you might as well be talking with a hobby horse.  People like Bill S and 4moreyearsofsomethingorother have as much capacity to reason as a doorpost.  I’ll give you one example: when conservatives like Reagan ran the country, they were all conscientious objectors and passive resistors.  Now that a clown runs the country they are patriotic red white and blue.  See what difference a few years can make?  I have a note for Vinny as well: don’t throw your pearls before swine.  They won’t appreciate it, and will end up turning their tusks on you.  As far as Bill is concerned, he’s way behind on his reading assignment, and swimming in waters deeper than he knows.  Ad majorem.

Bill S: please look up the definition of faith - you may be surprised. Faith need not be proven, and science has not yet nor will ever be able to disprove God (and cannot prove His existence either).
And because God gave us free will, you absolutely have the right to reject His laws, but they do apply to all. See, that’s what real love is all about - He loves us so much that He doesn’t force His will upon us. You can reject His laws all you want, but you will answer for it when you pass from this earthly life.
Once upon a time, this country did accept and live by His laws - that’s what our forefathers based the Constitution & Bill of Rights upon, and that’s when it flourished. It’s no coincidence that as the US and the rest of the world gets further and further away from God and His laws, things get worse and worse on this planet.

Hi Matt B, I hear you loudly & clearly about casting pearls before swine, but remember, we are asked to spread the Word. You are right in that I need to be reminded to shake the dust off and move on when the Word is rejected. And I will do just that. We must continue to pray very hard for this country and this world - the triumph will come - and soon we hope. Blessings and peace be upon you and yours.

Thats right Matt….& WE THE PEOPLE….by having way too must trust in these politicians we are all living in fraudulently induced hell…...Too many Americans are continuing their wantoned disregard to do their own homework & find out and know the truth means too many Americans still have not learned their lesson…...or are in denial and are reckless by believing the very crooks who robbed them and are telling them JUST MOVE FORWARD & FORGET ABOUT OUR CRIMES & SINS AGAINST YOU…..THEY ARE BELIEVING THE BIG LIE THAT THEY ARE FREE & INDEPENDENT ......WHILE THEY BECOME MORE ENSLAVED EVERY DAY BY THESE TRAITORS WHO ALLOWED THIS HORROR…..ITS A REAL FREAK SHOW….& FRANKLY I AM THOROUGLY DISGUSTED BY ALL OF IT…...IF THESE PEOPLE ONLY KNEW WHAT THEY ARE ALLOWING THEY WOULD PROBABLY DROP DEAD FROM THE FEAR OF IT.

You can only have faith if you know the truth about the horrors they are planning. Otherwise you have faith in nothing….nothing at all. Hope & Change is a metaphor for your complete loss of freedom….. believing these happy words are positive reenforcement used to deceive…......believing these lies have the people blinded from the truth…......and the truth about their evil plan is what these crooks are trying so desperately to hide…....these shiny happy people are in reality…...jumping into the fire pit of hell…if you are happy in your life right now you are living in denial….and don’t want to face these demons…..

There is simply nothing to be happy about…....these politicians have DISHONORED WE THE PEOPLE…..THE MAKER OF THE NOTES…..AND ARE DISGUSTING TRAITORS…TO NOT ONLY WE THE PEOPLE BUT TO THEMSELVES & TO THEIR CREATOR.

You all claim to know God’s laws but what laws are you talking about?  The Ten Commandments? Leviticus? The Catechism? None of these laws apply in this country. They’re not part of the Constitution or the Bill of Rights. You think they are but they’re not. We have enough laws. We don’t need people like you making up more and attributing them to God.

So there was a comment that since I am Canadian why should I care what happens south of the border so the most honest response is if the US goes belly up it will impact us here since at the moment you are our largest and longest trading partner.
Now you all seem to point the blame at Obama when it was actually George W. Bush who amassed all your debt from reckless spending and 2 wars you really did not need or could afford since Clinton left a surplus and on the subject of Obamacare do you realize your country is the only rich nation of the civilized world who did not provide health care for all just look at us up in Canada we are not poor yet we provide quality health care for every citizen poor or rich so does that make us bad people here cause we care for our own.
And I find it funny that you all supposedly live by a book that was written over 2000 years ago yet you all have so much hate and anger for those who dont believe in what you do because in the Muslim world they call that type of attitude extremest. So if you want to be good christian s and catholic s why not trying to stop pointing fingers and accept you live in a world where people are different then you.
And if you want true facts try the Daily show or real time with Bill Maher cause media like Fox news only gives you their version not the truth.

Wow, Bill, these questions speak volumes, so I’ve got to ask, why are you blogging on a Catholic website when clearly you don’t know the 1st thing about the Judeo-Christian faith (Catholics are Christians if you don’t realize that)? God created us all and His laws apply to the global human race. We are not making up laws and attributing them to God, we are simply stating God’s laws.

Ditto to you, Kevin-Ontario. No one is hating anyone, we are simply stating the Truth, of which there is only one, and I’ll repeat, you all will discover this 1 and only Truth when you pass from this earth. What is amazing is how it’s okay for you, Bill and Fourmoreyears to visit a Catholic website, strongly state your beliefs and tell us how wrong we are, but when we defend our faith, you call us all sorts of names, accuse us of making things up (because you are all clearly ignorant of our faith and its teachings), and to boot, are indignant about it all.

“His laws apply to the global human race.”

Really. That’s interesting. Which laws?  Laws that Moses gave to a people wandering in the desert now apply to the global human race?  “Infallible” decrees by the Pope apply to the global human race?  The Koran applies to the global human race?  Where exactly are these laws codified and how are they issued?  Shouldn’t we all be informed of these laws and the fines or penalties for noncompliance?  Do these laws supersede the laws of a sovereign state?

Your arguments are weak.

Up all of your foreign wazoos ......we don’t need you….never did ...never will…We have everything we need right here at home so take a hike….& go sell your wares to some other suckers…Our GDP might be down to 28 trillion now but the rate this is going yours is going to go down to zero because WE THE PEOPLE HAVE HAD ENOUGH….&  we aren’t buying your GLOBALIST FOREIGN CRAP ANYMORE…..SIONARA SUCKERS…...

I hate the whole Globalist meme….but more importantly…GLADYS KRAVITZ OF ONTARIO…...I DESPISE NOSY NEIGHBORS…..& NOSY BIG BROTHERS & BIG SISTERS ...........& PEOPLE WHO HIRE NANNYS TO DO THEIR WORK FOR THEM…...TIME FOR A CORRECTION….

The lesson is the GOP needs to start caring about the needs of the vulnerable outside of the womb in addition to caring about those inside the womb. Their platform, like the democrats, is unbalanced, and most voters live outside the womb, and tend to vote in those interests. Republicans will fight for a child to be born, but the Democrats will make sure that child, once born, is taken care of, into old age. Both parties need to get bigger tents if they wish to stop polarizing and alienating people and start winning elections by solid margins.

Abortion is a private issue for women and axpersonal issue between God & the woman. It is NO ONE else’s business. God knows, if men had to have babies ....that would be the end of the world for sure.

I want the politicians to all resign because they are all traitors and they need to be replaced by all of us. They are officially fired IMHO….THE DAY OF 9/11 THEY FAILED & TBTF IS HIGH TREASON…...

TBTF IS A DIRECT VIOLATION BY THE TRAITOR POLITICIANS OF OUR CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHTS AMERICA….........!

Why…..? WE THE PEOPLE ARE THE MAKERS & ISSUERS OF ALL OF THE NOTES…..& THE FEDERAL RESERVE BANK…....A PRIVATE BANK…... COMMITTED A QUADRILLION DOLLARS IN FRAUD VIA THEIR BANKS…..THE GSE’s & WALL STREET WITH OUR ELECTRONIC SIGNATURES ALLOWED BY THE TRAITOR POLITICIANS….....AND THE FED OWES WE THE PEOPLE A QUINTILLION DOLLARS .....OR MORE AS A RESULT OF THE ORIGINATION FRAUD…..!

Bill, the argument for positive law is even weaker.  A legislature could enact a law that all citizens must fly, and jail them if they alight.  What makes a law capable of obedience is its conformity with the natural law.

Also, just because people disagree over what constitutes the natural law does not preclude its existence.  Do you find it inconsistent that ivy league physics professors know more about the laws of physics than cab drivers?

Natural Law is a cock & bull eugenecists meme…..

No legislative body or branch of GOVERNMENT overrules WE THE PEOPLE…...SAYS THE U.S. CONSTITUTION & THE U.S. BILL OF RIGHTS…...

BOOYAH..

Tony, I disagree with you.  The republican party doesn’t care at all about unborn babies.  And the democrats don’t want to take care of anybody, old or young.  All these groups care about is elections.

Take the example of government entitlements.  CBO accountants have long known that the level of these entitlements, projected over the next 10-20 years, is unsustainable.  However, no one in governement has addressed the problem in a realistic way.  It all comes down to posturing and sloguns.

And what about life issues?  It takes moral courage to say to a woman, “your choices don’t include aborting your chiild.”  Similary, it takes vision to tell grown men, “you can’t be married to your boyfriend.”  Or to tell Remington, “You can’t flood the works with arms.”  Or major holders of our national debt, “You can’t destroy the environment or coerce women into infertility, or force Catholic bishops into hiding.”

But moral courage is a commodity in short supply.

So why don’t WE THE PEOPLE have a PIG ROAST & A KEGGER PARTY ON THE STEPS OF ALL THE STATE HOUSES…..CAPITALS…...& THE WHITE HOUSE LAWN…..WHERE WE WILL BURN THE MORTGAGES & THE 16TH AMENDMENT & A FEW OTHER HOGS OF OUR CHOOSING….! ITS OUR CHOICE AMERICA BECAUSE WE OWN THIS PLACE BECAUSE WE PAID FOR EVERYTHING…UPFRONT AT THE ORIGINATION…..! WE WILL INVITE LLOYD BLANFEIN & CO FOR ENTERTAINMENT…....GEITHNER & BERNANKE CAN DO ALL THE COOKING & SERVING….

We will have a FEDSTER ROAST & OBAMA CAN SING & EMCEE THE ENTIRE EVENT…...WE WILL INVITE THE POPES…BOTH BLACK & WHITE TO SHARE IN THE FESTIVITIES…....IT IS GUARANTEED TO BE NOT KOSHER FOR ALL .... BUT FUN FOR THE MAJORITY NONE THE LESS..!

THE ONLY HOLDERS OF THE NATIONAL DEBT & ALL THE DEBT ARE THE FEDSTER….BANKSTERS & WALL STREET BECAUSE THEY DID NOT PAY FOR ANYTHING….....SO THEREFORE…..THEY HOLD ALL THE DEBT….!

Also, Bill, Jesus tells us that his law is written on our hearts.  Look there.

& these crooks owe WE THE PEOPLE QUINTILLIONS AS A RESULT OF CRIMINAL NEGLIGENCE with the INTEND TO DECEIVE…..AT THE ORIGINATION….

The perils of subjorning perjury…..is evidenced on the face of all documents.

CNN reporting many red States wish to secede from the union…..party poopers….

WHAT ARE THE RED STATES SECEDING FROM…...? WE THE PEOPLE NEED TO UNITE IN ONE COMMON THEME….FREEDOM & INDEPENDENCE….....BY RULE OF LAW…..& DEMAND THESE CROOKS ARE HELD ACCOUNTABLE FOR THEIR CRIMES…...BY PAYING BACK THE AMERICAN PEOPLE FOR THEIR COLLECTION OF EXCESSIVE USURY…..& PAYING THE TREASURY BACK IN GOLD FOR THE ORIGINATION FRAUD…& OUR OWN CURRENCY ISSUED….....U.S. BANK NOTES ISSUED VIA STATE BANKS…..ALL LOANS WILL BE VIA TREASURY DIRECT VIA A NOMINAL INTEREST RATE THE THE TREASURY WILL COLLECT FOR OURSELVES & OUR POSTERITY….

Alot of crazies in this place so I would say if you dont like the way the parties are then start your own political party get elected and change things if not stop complaining cause you all have a vote so use it.
And as for this thing of god’s laws and a christian dominated America I say lets get with modern times cause at the rate of immigration you all are becoming the minority.
I wonder if the ancient egyptians fought over who’s god was better like you all are and we know what happened to that civilazation.

YOUR RIGHT KEVIN…....WE THE PEOPLE ARE CRAZY WITH THE TRUTH & FURIOUS….SO IF I WERE YOU, I WOULD MYOB KEVIN FROM ONTARIO…THIS GENERAL BETRAY US SCANDAL BY THE POLITICIANS IS THE BUSINESS OF THE AMERICAN PEOPLE…..& WE THE PEOPLE REFUSE TO ACKNOWLEDGE ANY FOREIGN IMPOSTERS CLAIMING THEY HAVE ANY SUBJECT MATTER JURISDICTION IN THE U.S. THAT GIVES THEM ANY CAUSE TO RISE & GIVE AN OPINION THAT IS OF ANY RELEVANCE HERE…SO BUZZ OFF…& WORRY ABOUT YOUR OWN HOUSE…

WE THE PEOPLE,  HOLD THESE TRUTHS TO BE SELF EVIDENT THAT WE ARE ENDOWED BY ONE CREATOR…....THERE IS ONE GOD & HE IS THE CREATOR OF ALL THINGS…....THEREFORE, NATIONAL SOVEREIGNTY WILL PREVAIL…..& ANYONE WHO IS NOT WITH US…AS WE ARE INDIVISIBLE AS ONE NATION UNDER ONE GOD…..THE CREATOR…ARE WITH THE TERRORISTS & ARE THE ARCH ENEMIES OF OUR FREEDOM & INDEPENDENCE .....& ARE IN FACT, A NATIONAL SECURITY RISK…..& BETTER HEAD FOR THEIR CAVES…OR THE NEAREST BORDER…..WHICH EVER IS CLOSEST BECAUSE,  WE HAVE CITIZEN MILITIAS AT THE READY AND WE WILL DENY ANY FOREIGN ASSISTANCE UNDER ANY GUISES…..MERCANARIES OR OTHERWISE…THIS IS OUR HOUSE & WE WILL PROTECT IT BY THE GRACE OF GOD…..FROM YOU GLOBALIST ..... ATHEIST…..NIHILISTS & SATANISTS…

All of the pagan worshippers .......non believers in one creator…...satanists…..atheists…...eventually annihilate themselves…...because they believe so many lies…..they did not know the truth….there is one God. God doesn’t destroy….Satan does that with ease by using morally weak, stupid people to do his dirty work. That is why, in the end, believing Satan’s lies & empty promises always land them in their own lake of fire & brimstone .....

It is obvious that it is impossible for many people to follow Gods 10 laws…...Just 10….and God even gave us a guide….the Bible…......with guidelines & teachings that would keep us on the straight & narrow path & even told us what would happen if we did not keep the faith…....... that would be the time of the end and that we would be given signs to warn us that we have been acting Godless and we would be given time to correct our ills & repent….. and what would happen as a result if we did not turn away from evil…..What God made so simple ......satan has tried so hard to make it so complicated & that is why we are here & that is what is so sad & pathetic…

So called comedian Penn Gillette promoting his book….EVERYDAY IS AN ATHEIST HOLIDAY…...OR THE JOY OF NO ACCOUNTABILITY FOR BEING A SCUMBAG DISGUISED AS AN ATHEIST…...On piers Morgan tonight says maybe the GENERAL BETRAY US SCANDAL….is really about electronic fraud or maybe atheists just like sex too much…..Morgan says…..maybe the American people should just accept their own robbery & allow the TRAITOR POLITICIANS TO DESTROY THE HOUSE WE THE PEOPLE PAID FOR & BUILT WITH THE TRAITOR POLITICIANS FASCIST FEDSTER FRAUDULENTLY INDUCED FISCAL CLIFF & THE FEDSTERS FASCIST FRAUDULENTLY INDUCED NATIONAL DEBT….WHERES THE RECEIPTS YOU SCUMBAGS…..? THAT PROVE YOU PAID THE TREASURY BACK ........? .....NOPE…...THEY DON’T HAVE THEM .......BUT WHO CARES…..? IF Its Weimar Germany…..Hitler…Stalin & Mussolinni…. resurrected from the ashes by Satan…right on U.S. SOIL…..? & the nation gets commie propaganda spoon fed to them on prime time Tv…...as Satan laughs with delight at his biggest accomplishment .......making masses of people believe he doesn’t exist & 9/11 WAS JUST A FAILURE OF IMAGINATION BY THE POLITICIANS…..& by promoting some more weapons of financial terrorism mass destruction .......as a viable alternative to a Quadrillion dollars worth of secrets, lies, deceit & fraud….is just a way of preventing moral hazard by the sheeple.  It will give the traitors the upper hand under by more fascist abuse of powef under the guise of fake threats….and will fiinancially destroy us all at the same time….mwahaha…...& the sheeple will be none the wiser….to their own execution…...yep…they are all standing in front of the firing squad….& they don’t even know it….! Just perfect…Satan’s full of glee as the people get ready to be executed…Stalin style….right on us soil..

Make no mistake ...its the traitors in Congress….OBAMAS just getting paid well for playing the part..

Its the fiscal stiff & the national fret….& the sad thing is….more than half of the country believes the lies…piers Morgan needs to get deported back to commieland…on a row boat….with no oars..

“Also, Bill, Jesus tells us that his law is written on our hearts.  Look there.”

Well this is getting more and more interesting. So really, what it all comes down to is common sense.

I can agree with that. Thank you.

I see evidence that, unfortunately, common sense has gone out the window….CNN reporting ...traitor Nancy Pelosi refuses to resign….....Same sex couples could see tax windfalls ...ELMO recants allegations he is a child molestor….....possibly another pharmacy company connected to meningitis outbreak….Papa Johns faces $250 million dollar spam lawsuit…..Long Island residents sue utility companies (themselves)  for gross negligence….......top ceos wait in joyful expectation for the fiscal cliff .....and the death of all freedom & independence of millions of sheeple….Four star General demoted for improper spending….Syrian warplanes pound targets in Turkey…..Survey shows…...China’s biggest problem?....too many men….......all aboard…...?

Mayor of Ohio Coleman (D) on CNN says…..Obama is pro Business because he bailed out TBTF & the Auto industry & saved (helped destroy) America by the fascist bail out of the public sector…..by the private sector….....and both sectors must willingly accept the FISCAL CLIFF with more fascism by the politicians .....& LEAP INTO THE LAKE OF FIRE to prevent a far worse depression….and willingly accept the microchipped mark of the beast….& don’t worry…Obama will tax the rich to keep TBTF INVESTORS from dying the merciless death they deserve….that is all the proof I need that Satan exists and can take on many forms.

“and willingly accept the microchipped mark of the beast.”

Why do you keep saying that?  Even if such a technology were to be utilized, would that necessarily be the so called “mark of the beast”?

The truth about TBTF that too many Americans fail to realize is…..it is secret fascism by the politicians…..because TBTF was DOA…....and shhhhhh…..don’t tell the people this but…...TBTF OWES THE AMERICAN PEOPLE QUINTILLIONS ...... THE POLITICIANS ARE IN FACT…HIDING TBTF’s INSOLVENT BALANCE SHEETS SO THEY CAN STEAL OUR REMAINING WEALTH WITH IMPUNITY & HIDE IT OVERSEAS WITH THE REST OF OUR STOLEN WEALTH…....BUT DON’T WORRY AMERICA BECAUSE THE POLITICIANS WILL HURL US OFF THEIR FISCAL CLIFF WITH THEIR BIG FISCAL STIFF….. & THEY WILL ANNIHILATE WHAT REMAINS OF OUR WEALTH & ANY REMAINS OF ANY POSSIBILITY THAT THE MAJORITY OF AMERICANS COULD EVER BE FREE & INDEPENDENT…......MAKE NO MISTAKE…...THE FISCAL CLIFF WILL CREATE COMPLETE COMMUNISM & WILL ANIHALITE THE AMERICAN PEOPLE ........FINANCIALLY .....SPIRITUALLY .....PHYSICALLY & EMOTIONALLY ......TO ACCEPT COMPLETE COMMUNISM & END FREEDOM & INDEPENDENCE FOR THE VAST MAJORITY OF AMERICANS ...MAKE NO MISTAKE…...THE FISCAL CLIFF & THE NATIONAL DEBT WILL CREATE COMPLETE COMMUNISM & ANARCHY….& ....ONLY DIVINE INTERVENTION WILL SAVE US….FROM FRAUDULENTLY INDUCED COMMIE BANKSTER HELL….....BECAUSE TOO MANY HAVE LOST THEIR FAITH IN GOD…....& BELIEVE THE BIG LIE THAT OBAMA WILL SAVE THEIR SOULS….WELL BREAKING NEWS…..THE TRAITORS IN CONGRESS & IN THE SENATE WILL NEVER ALLOW THAT TO HAPPEN…BECAUSE…..THEY ARE ALL MEMBERS OF THE SYNAGOGUE OF SATAN…..GOOGLE SEARCH THAT…...& BLOG THE TRUTH ALL OVER FACEBOOK & TWITTER…...& EVERY BLOGSITE YOU CAN….& CALL & EMAIL THE TRAITORS IN CONGRESS & THE SENATE & TELL THEM YOU KNOW THEY WORK FOR SATAN….

DAMNED RIGHT SUE…......THAT IS PRECISELY WHAT THE MICROCHIP IS SUE…..THE MARK OF THE BEAST…...YOUR FRAUDULENTLY INDUCED TICKET TO HELL…& THE SATANIST POLITICIANS WILL NEVER TELL YOU THAT THE MARK OF THE BEAST IS HIDDEN IN PAGE 1000 OF OBAMACARE…BUT DON’T TAKE MY WORD FOR IT….....PLEASE…..GOOGLE IT…..AND DO YOUR OWN RESEARCH…..THE TRUTH US…..UNLESS YOU ARE NOT CATHOLIC SUE…..OR LOST YOUR FAITH….... YOU WOULD HAVE RECOGNIZED THIS YOURSELF…..

Because I care…..here’s a link to OBAMACARE: MARK OF THE BEAST…....
http://www.helpfreetheearth.com/news242_health.html
Or…..JUST GOOGLE THE WORDS…..IS THE MARK OF THE BEAST IN OBAMACARE…..

Here is another link about THE MICROCHIPPED MARK OF THE BEAST HIDDEN IN OBAMACARE…....
http://www.tldm.org/news4/markofthebeast.htm

THE TRUTH IS…..ONLY YOU CAN SAVE YOUR SOUL…...

While we are all learning to keep a more open mind….here is some food for thought & one honest opinion on how some really aware Americans who are paying attention are coming to believe the truth is becoming more & more apparent & IN FACT…..UNDENIABLE that the BRAINWASHING Synagogue of Satan is destroying America from within…...
http://bclaym.wordpress.com/2012/11/04/winning-nationally-losing-internationally/

“They were put off by him, and asked themselves, ‘Where did this man get all this?’  Then they sought to throw him off the brow of the hill upon which their town was built.”

Believe me Matt….If you speak the truth at any level you will be thrown off the hill by the traitor politicians…..you will be shunned by many of your so called neighbors…..friends & even members of your own family if you dare invade their false sense of freedom & independence….GOD WARNED IN THE END THAT ALL TRAITORS WOULD BE REVEALED .. I HAVE TO CONTINUOSLY REMIND MYSELF THAT I HAVE TO FIND FORGIVENESS IN MY HEART FOR THEY DO NOT KNOW THEIR ENEMY…..& THEY DO NOT KNOW THE TRUTH…AND YOU CAN’T MAKE PEOPLE BELIEVE WHAT THEY ARE IN DENIAL OF…IT IS INCREDIBLY SAD…..HEART BREAKING IN FACT TO SEE THIS LEVEL OF BETRAYAL…....I have been thrown off the hill of truth in my own town…..by the brown nosed local politicians & townspeople for trying to alert the townspeople about the coverup the politicians are engaging in for their own well engaged local fraud & corruption…it is trickle down fascism caused by trickle up poverty & make no mistake…...fascist tyranny has reached the local level..I will stay calm & true to my faith & pray we can all be saved before it is too late.

Make no mistake…..I am a woman, trying to speak the truth in a mans world of complete moral & spiritual bankruptcy. The corruption of the minds of these men has infected society so abhorrently and so vociferously that the vehement denial of it can only be compared to be thrown into a lions den…..you can actually hear the gnashing of teeth when the truth is spoken to them…the smell of sulphur actually eminates from their mouths.

They are so corrupt in fact they can’t even look you in the eye…..but if you observe their behavior you will recognize they are morally & spiritually broken down & they don’t know it…..but, you can’t dare tell them that because the gnashing of the teeth will come at you with a vengeful fury so powerful…...it will send you reeling. They will try to mentally, emotionally & spiritually destroy you…...but, you have to stay strong in the faith & pray for them that they to will save themselves from satan’s evil snares..beware…..when you let your guard down…..they will tell you they are the enlightened ones & they are the way, the truth & the light .... they are hoping to ensnare you….don’t allow it.

How Shakespearean.  The truth revealed.  I bow.

By joining them at their level they will help you destroy yourself right along with them. That is the hope of the wicked….that you will believe their lies they try & tell you about yourself….Stay true to your faith…know your enemy is not the person but….the soul of the person. We have to pray for them.

I try hard to stand in judgement of no one…my main objective is to remain observent of the words & actions of the people. That truly reveals their souls….they try hard to make you believe they are well intentioned…..they present themselves as…our frenemies…...their souls are bankrupt by decades of moral and spiritual abuse. Their minds and souls are severely weakened….I pray for them.

It is difficult to help people wrestle with their own demons. The moral & spiritual plague of mankind is the blame game. It is hard for many to look inside themselves and see that we ourselves were morally & spiritually weak & that is why we are here. We can allow no more of that. If we do, we are with the terrorists who we allowed to put us here.

Ivent - A humble request: Please try to limit the use of ALL CAPS in your responses, and also try to remember that the comment section is not an outlet for somebody’s stream of thought. Before posting so many lengthy (or short) comments in a row, please try to put all of your thoughts into one short, concise, thought-out comment and then post. There is no need to send so many separate comments in a row. It’s an abuse of the comment section.

Thank you!

A commenter at the top stated someone sure hates democracy…..THAT IS A BLATANTLY FALSE STATEMENT…....THE FOUNDATION OF DEMOCRACY…...WHAT THE U.S. CONSTITUTION WAS FOUNDED ON WAS ..........RULE BY THE PEOPLE…......SOMETHING EVIL HAS UNDERMINED THAT…....BY SECRETS…..LIES & DECEIT THEY HAVE DEFRAUDED THE MASSES…..WE WERE WEAK AND DISTRACTED & TRUSTED TOO MUCH…TIME TO RETURN TO OUR FOUNDATIONAL BASIS…...THE ORIGINAL U.S. CONSTITUTION & THE RULE OF LAW….& RESTORE OUR DIGNITY…..& FREEDOM & INDEPENDENCE ...

Here it comes…...time to shoot the messenger….. ........I will not allow that….......I will leave you with this simple message…...demand the treasury be audited and accept no new debts in any form….....& may the peace of the Lord be with you always…..........

And therein secrets all the changes of the vix’
Who types a male yet lax the sense to find a fix.

Faust N.  you said, “Thankfully, we have laity like Representatives Paul Ryan, Chris Smith, et al, and a small group of bishops like Archbishops Chaput and Lori, Cardinals Burke and Dolan,……..”
Did I misunderstand your appreciation for these men?

Let us not forget Dolan invited Obama to the Al Smith Foundation Dinner and Judie Brown from American Life League in her letter to Dolan, questioned why Obama accepted the invitation and NOT why Dolan invited Obama.  Obama and his party have led a hateful attack against Catholic principles like none other.
Let us not forget that it was the USCCB who gave millions of dollars to ACORN to get Obama elected in 2008.  The blacks, Latinos and ‘claimed Catholics’  re-elected Obama!  Why the accolades for the bishops?

This is truth clearly set forth by Pope Saint Pius X:

“Whatever a Christian does even in the order of things of earth, he may not overlook the supernatural; indeed he must, according to the teaching of Christian wisdom, direct all things towards the supreme good as to his last end; all his actions, besides, in so far as good or evil in the order of morality, that is, in keeping or not with natural and divine law, fall under the judgment and jurisdiction of the Church”. . . .

We are witnessing the consequences of turning our backs on Sacred Tradition and Magisterial Teachings. We truly are a stiff-necked people and we get the administration we deserve.

As a man or an organization plunges deeper into the abyss, even the possibility to do good is withdrawn from him or them.  No longer are there clearly marked boundaries between good and evil, but only a grey gradient. 

In this soupy mist, a soul is lost even to the best intentions.  “We are witnessing the consequences of turning our backs on Sacred Tradition and Magisterial Teachings.”  No, Joe, we are witnessing the consequences of hearts hardened irremedially against the truth.  If what ensues is total destruction, it will be mercy to us.  It may be our only hope. 

I laugh to see the bishops stumbling over social justice and immigration.  It shows they’re hoping some immigrant group comes in and relieves them from all responsibility for their haphazard leadership.  Unfortunately the replacements will be wearing burquas and packing heat.

Matt B - Holy Mother the Church knows what’s best and that is why Christ established His Church to teach, to guide and to convert——- even if it is currently hidden from the populace.  See the wisdom of the True Faith:

Pope Leo XIII noted the following Tametsi Futura Prospicientibus, November 1, 1900:

?,,,,the law of Christ ought to prevail in human society and be the guide and teacher of public as well as of private life. Since this is so by divine decree, and no man may with impunity contravene it, it is an evil thing for the common weal wherever Christianity does not hold the place that belongs to it….”

We need to have all US Bishops/Cardinals stop the SCANDAL within the Church to be effective, by enforcing Canon 915 or formal excommunication.

US PAPAL NUNCIO, “Archbishop Vigano, observed that some influential Catholic public officials and university professors are allied with forces opposed to the Church’s fundamental moral teachings on “critical issues” like abortion, population control, the redefinition of marriage, embryonic stem cell research and “problematic adoptions.”
He said it is a “grave and major problem” when self-professed Catholic faculty at Catholic institutions are the sources of teachings that conflict with Church teaching on important policy issues rather than defend it.”
When are our Bishops going to encourage the LAITY to read the “CATECHISM of the CATHOLIC CHURCH, Second Edition”? 
It can’t be more clear that the Laity in the US needs education and formation in their Faith.

1 COR 11-13 “....not to associate…-not even to each with such a one”.
“Drive out the wicked person from among you.” - St. Paul.
Canon 915 or formal excommunciation for Catholic Heretics and Catholic Schismatics who cause public scandal;
LOSS of ECCLESIASTICAL OFFICE per Canon Law for bad Bishops;
defrocking of bad Priests.
ALL CHRISTIAN FAITHFUL - - - Canon 212 ” §3. According to the knowledge, competence, and prestige which they possess, they have the right and even at times the duty to manifest to the sacred pastors their opinion on matters which pertain to the good of the Church and to make their opinion known to the rest of the Christian faithful, without prejudice to the integrity of faith and morals, with reverence toward their pastors, and attentive to common advantage and the dignity of persons. “

Anne, that being said, then the whole lot of them must resign or be excommunicated plus the teachers and professors…….

*  In every diocese of the U S and beginning in kindergarten of U S bishops’ schools,  youth are innocent captives in classrooms and CCD programs that expose them to pornographic materials that will interfere with their human natural growth and development.  Sexualized catechetics such as the “Growing In Love” series with an imprimatur gives information beyond the natural curiosities of youth.
http://www.motherswatch.net/content/view/12/6/

*… according to the canonists at the St. Joseph Foundation in Texas, the new canon laws DO NOT provide a recourse against collaborating teachers allowed to teach in U S parochial schools who war against the Commandment, “Thou shalt not kill”! 
10% of teachers in parochial schools accept the teachings of Holy Mother the Church in regards to birth controlling,
53% of teachers in parochial schools believe Catholics can have an abortion and remain in good standing;
  Statistics from:  “Tumultuous Times” by Father Dominic Radecki and Father Francisco Radecki, page 496.

*....facts and studies have proven that without natural blush and shame, our youth in U S bishops’ schools can be molded to destroy Catholicism. 
*See the article by TIM DRAKE,  Register Senior Writer,  November 9-15, 2008.  Source:  Center for the Study of Higher Education, 
QEV analytics/http://www.ncregister.com/site/article/16432 in regards to , “Catholic Students Losing Their Religion   -    Study Says Tuition Doesn’t Fund Faith at Catholic Colleges.”
60% say pre marital sex is not a sin
60% say abortion should be legal
                                                                                                  39% say officials or staff encouraging contraceptive use
                                                  50% of college women engage in premarital sex.

 
*… in US universities and colleges claiming to be Catholic studies report that ‘Catholic’ females are more promiscuous than their peers by LifeSiteNews.com   Mar 01, 2010

*....Likewise, a 2008 study published by The Cardinal Newman Society found that 46 percent of current and recent students at Catholic colleges nationwide — and 50 percent of female students — said they had engaged in sex outside of marriage. Three out of five agreed strongly or somewhat that premarital sex is not a sin, and 78 percent disagreed strongly or somewhat that using a condom to prevent pregnancy was a serious sin.

Anne, what part of the new canon laws and the catechism is in accordance to sound Catholic teaching?  It appears that the “bastions” of the Catholic Church had to be “razed,” that is torn down, destroyed.  Do you know who said this and can you deny that that is exactly their mission?

Just a friendly reminder…..don’t trust these politicians folks…..they are wolves in sheep’s clothing…..Paul Ryan was part & parcel to the Simpson -Bowles fascist legislation…...watch CNBC….& Bloomberg news and pay attention…these folks are very informative because they are Americans at their core….America is in their hearts and in their souls.

Remember invoking your Constitutional rights is more powerful than voting…....

........and is only the right of Natural born U.S.citizens….hence the corporations are people theory of the SCOTUS….though they cannot prove that in any way that is concrete or particularized because WE THE PEOPLE ARE THE MAKERS OF ALL OF THE NOTES…....& WE PAY FOR EVERYTHING…...UPFRONT….AT THE ORIGINATION…..CHALK ONE UP FOR WE THE PEOPLE…

Ivent - the most powerful is to take heart from the surety and certainty of the Catholic Faith - invoking the rights of the Kingship of Christ the King over the nation.  He died for nations, not just for individuals.

i just want to say that i could not be happier with my fellow americans. praise jesus we picked the right candidate for our president for a second time now. obama is a good man with good moral values and he cares for others. we need to pray for our president and thank god that the guy who was in the mormon cult(mitt romney is a mormon)did not win this election. romney’s only concern was to make rich people richer. in the bible god says it is more difficult for the rich man to get into heaven than it is for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle.

justin, when they come for you based on ‘their good morals’ who butchers innocent babies, and forces Americans to pay for the satanic practice of birth controlling (per Archbishop Hayes), who will protect you?

Despite who you voted for it is clear we are a country divided - not only politically but spriritually. Many of us prayed desperately asking the Lord to place into office those leaders that defend life, the sanctity of marriage, the protection of our religious freedoms and to bring our great country back into a financially strong state. God did answer us - He said “Prove to me how much you love m
e. Imitate my Son. My son Jesus was a friend of sinners. Yes! Holiness helped unholiness. Godliness gave to ungodliness. Perfection served imperfection. The sinless mingled with sin. My son was guilty of influencing the guilty toward God—for He was God. He ate with them, He drank with them and He laughed with them. His life of love was irresistible to those who lacked true love. His clear, authoritative teaching gave hope, forgiveness, and peace. Like spiritual sonar Jesus came to seek and save the lost. His heart broke for the broken.”

Let us turn our country back towards God one soul at a time. Let the Lord use you. Spend more time with Him in prayer asking how can you use me Lord?” ! It is time for all of to prove to God how we are on His team.  Our Family has begun our ouwn family ministry - one soul at a time.

Kevin –Onterio – Your message was posted and gladly I read it.  You are absolutely right when you state “the world is upside down because your (Christian) beliefs you are trying to force upon others who do not believe this.”  We do try to force the truth - and do so as disciples of Jesus.  Like Jesus we want to lead all souls to heaven.  You sate “Your groups (Christians) say homosexuals are sinners yet where is that in the bible”  We do not say homosexuals are sinners we state homosexual acts are sinful please read -Leviticus 18:22 , Judges 19:16-24,  Romans 1:18-32, 1 Corinthians 6:9-11, 1 Timothy 1:8-10,&  Jude 7.  All acts outside of marriage between a man & women are sinful acts.  (The old & new testaments are full of direction on this subject.)  It is with great Love and the desire to please our Lord that gives us the courage to speak out against sin.  Sin masquerades quite effectively in today’s world.  Faith tells us “there is no sin greater than the MERCY OF GOD”.  Just a side note- I once believed as you do and began a journey to prove the Catholic Church wrong – I thank the Lord every day for this journey – back to Him.  The silly saying: “Truth will set you free” is one of the most powerful living truths of our time!

Carmen,

Your thinking is poignant and clear.  However, it’s doubtful that Kevin is disposed to receiving it. 

Likewise, Joe, however true your angry assertions may be, they no longer touch people like Bill S, who have long since abandoned the discussion to people whom they consider “crazies” and “extemists.” 

Now that law and popular opinion have swung in the direction of reckless (but carefully protected) dissolution, you and I are are headed for the glue factory.  High-handed and self-righteous scoffers come here only to feed the monkeys.  It’s like visiting the zoo for them. 

Your beautiful and passionate exhortations fall like the voice of ravens on heart-hardened ears.  I listen.

Matt B - truth is never anger.  You call it anger because you are helpless to refute.

Hello again Matt B & hello Carmen, I was involved in this blog for a few days beginning on Nov 12th, and like you Carmen, I defended the Catholic faith by citing Scripture from Leviticus Chapter 18:22 (you can read my comments above starting on Nov 12th). At the time I was responding to Lisa Kaiser, and Bill S was not at all happy with my posts. As Matt mentions, it appears Bill has not responded in a while, but my point here is that these folks came on a Catholic blog and attacked us for defending our faith and taking a stand against this miserable culture of death in which we live. We need to continue to pray for a change of hearts and minds so that our country (and world) can come to know the only truth, that is Our Lord & Savior Jesus Christ. United we stand!

Vinny P - you said, “but my point here is that these folks came on a Catholic blog and attacked us for defending our faith”

Conciliarism is the problem, Vinny P.  It is a dying faith and religion and the “changes” prove it is not the “Catholic faith”. 

see my post:
Posted by Joe on Friday, Nov 16, 2012 9:57 AM (EDT)

I hate to admit it, but I knew this, going into the election. I prayed before the Blessed Sacrament for an hour on election day, picturing voters touched by the grace of God which I was pleading for them, and voting pro-life. But I left thinking, “we are not ready for a revival of moral behavior and faith in this nation. We will not vote for a pro-life candidate” (assuming there was one, I am still skeptical). We need to suffer more before we are going to change.
Matthew is right. We have LOTS of work to do to undo the damage done by the sexual revolution. To build a Culture of Life and launch the New Springtime of Evangelization. And I am the only person who can begin this change. Waiting for politicians, or even bishops to act first is a cop-out. Blaming secularists, pro-aborts, or Obama won’t change anything.
I love this video because it features Pope John Paul and Lech Walensa who are not political leaders (Lech wasn’t when he began Solidarity in a Gdansk shipyard)but they stepped out in faith, tiny Davids against the Goliath of Communism, and they suffered and fought till they won.
So must we suffer, pray, fast, fight until marriages last and babies are allowed to live. Till we have to build more churches to hold all those who want to attend daily Mass.
It will come, but Our Lord is looking at me to begin to change to set off a change reaction. What am I waiting for?

“Here’s the lesson from the election, folks!”  Matthew, folks have strayed from sensus Catholicus.  You do not teach your readers anything about Catholicity.  A wise man will seek out the wisdom of the Roman Catholic Church and listen to the Holy Spirit warnings handed on by Pontiffs.  Matthew, why are you so resistant to the Magisterial Teachings handed on?  Why have you acquiesced to the principles of the countersyllabus inaugurated in 1789?  Because you oppose Sacred Tradition, obviously, and are indulging only as a new thinker of revised versions and new meanings of Truth. 

It is simple Catholic realism to look to the Fathers of the Church.  To say popes (see below)  got it wrong is to say the Holy Spirit needs to be corrected.  Is it any wonder we have the current regime in Washington? In Man’s arrogance, he would rather serve himself than the Almighty God who created him to love Him, serve Him in this life so that he might spend eternity with Him. 

Honoring Christ as Sovereign King is not contrary to or unrelated to the human person’s fulfillment, but rather it is a necessary condition for it.  Matthew, why have you strayed from the fact that the Catholic State is necessary?  Our Lord has a right to be recognized, glorified and worshiped by societies and not just individuals.  This is not mere authoritarianism but is a genuine need for the salvation of souls.

The following does not do justice to what the Pontiffs have warned, but may it cause a searching for the One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Truth:
…… Pope Saint Pius X wrote the following in Vehementer Nos, February 11, 1906… That the State must be separated from the Church is a thesis absolutely false, a most pernicious error. 
That the Catholic Church had to “reconcile” herself to the separation of Church and State, has been condemned repeatedly and vigorously throughout her history…….
“Human societies cannot, without becoming criminal, act as if God did not exist or refuse to concern themselves with religion,”……
of Modernism condemned by Pope Saint Pius X in Pascendi Dominci Gregis and of the ” new thinkers” by Pope Pius XII in Humani Generis..

“Healthy secularity,” is a grave error.  It is this separation that has produced the reign of the devil in civil society as the consequence of the overthrow of the Social Reign of Christ the King.  Matthew, you do the readers a disservice by bashing them with the problems but you neglect to refresh them with the truth.  Yes, it Is unpopular but discoverable.  You need to do your homework.

Joe - truth is what’s left after all else fails.

Matt B - the age old question - What is Truth? 

Where will you find the fullness of the Catholic Truth? 

How do you know when truth has been tampered with? 
Who is implementing novelties instead of truth?

CHAIR OF UNITY OCTAVE PRAYERS (JANUARY 18-JANUARY 25)
Brief history of the origin of this octave, with official prayers of the Church. Intentions for the Octave: January 18—The return of the “other sheep” to the One Fold of Christ; January 19—The return of the Oriental Separatists to Communion with the Apostolic see; January 20—The submission of the Anglicans to the Authority of the Vicar of Christ;

January 21—That the Lutherans and other Protestants of continental Europe might find their way back to Holy Church; January 22—That Christians in America might become one in union with the Chair of St. Peter; January 23—The return to the Sacraments of lapsed Catholics; January 24—The conversion of the Jews; January 25—The missionary conquest of the world for Christ. Pamphlet - 44 pages. 

Joe,

The “Unity of Octave Prayers”  are insulting and condescending.  The RCC is not the sole depository of God’s love and grace on earth.  God’s love and grace are freely given to all.  One does have to be an RC.  All righteous people have a place in the world to come. Such “prayers” go against the spirit of Nostra Aetate.  Jews need no conversion.  Jews have an ongoing, unbroken, valid covenant with God.  God has made promises to Jews and God’s promises remain intact.  No, Christainity does not triumph over those promises or “fulfill” those promises. The RCC is at least smart enough to leave Jews alone. The RC bishops issued a statement about 10 yrs ago or so saying that should be no efforts to convert Jews.  For 600 yrs during the Inquisition, the RCC tortured, murdered, tried to forcefully convert Jews.  The RCC forced Jews to live in segregated areas in “Christian” cities. Still Jews thankfully remain in the world. Why?  Because God loves Jews and God wills that God’s chosen people remain on the earth to observe Shabbat, to read and study Torah, to work toward tikkun olam (repair of the world). After all, Jesus was not a Christian.  Jesus was an observant Jew who whose teaching re love of God, love of neighbor, etc came straight from the Torah.  These ideas were Jewish values about three thousand yrs they were ever “Christian values”.  Leave the Jews alone.  The RC bishops are smart enough that their “New Evangelization” effort is all about “converting” Christians.  In this matter, follow your bishops.

Lisa Kaiser - You have only an opinion, Lisa kaiser.  Are you aware of the sin of ‘indifferentism’?  By your reasoning Christ’s Church is not necessary.  By your reasoning, opening up to the world is of greater value than remaining faithful to Christ, Son of God.  God is consistent.  We may choose not to respect the consistency but we do so always at our peril.  There is no other alternative but to accept the primacy of Peter as the rock upon which the Catholic Church is built.  One cannot be against Christ and obtain eternal beatitude. 

        We know the Jews and the Muslims do not recognize the Second Person of the Blessed Trinity – a doctrine of faith.  The Jews and the Moslems are at war with Christ.  Jesus said, “no-one cometh to the Father, but by me”. Our Lord Jesus Christ is the Way to the Father, in Heaven.  Catholics cannot renegotiate a political goal of creating an ecumenical New World Order and expect a good outcome.
  Lisa K you are compromising with Catholic Tradition, Her doctrine, Her history and Her mission.

Lisa - “leave the Jews alone.”  To sleep, perchance to dream.

The Jews are a nice and doctrinally sound people, who have yet to accept the central tenet of their own faith.  But this is not so hard to understand.  Most ostensible christians don’t really understand or accept the (same) central tenet of their faith.

The “people of God,” or “people of Israel,” or “people of the covenant,” or “children of Abraham,” are really those who have been washed by the waters of baptism, and made children of light.  “Born of water and the spirit.”

It’s nice that you keep kosher, with the dishes and all, and commemorate all the festivals of the old law.  But unless it brings you to a knowledge of the truth, you’re not profiting by it.

Jesus preferred the title “son of man.”

Jesus preferred the title “son of man.”  Prove it, Matt B.

“Jesus uses the term “Son of Man” 83 times in the four gospel accounts. Every time Jesus claimed the title “The Son of Man” he was claiming divinity. In addition to Mark 14:62, see Matt. 8:20; 9:6; 12:8; 12:40; 16:13; 16:27; 17:9; 17:12; 17:22; 18:11; 19:28; 20:18; 20:28; 24:27; 24:30; 24:37; 24:39; 24:44; 25:13; 25:31; 26:2; 26:24; 26:45; 26:64; Mark 2:10; 2:28; 8:38; 9:12; 9:31; 10:33; 10:45; 13:26; 14:21; 14:41; Luke 5:24; 6:5; 7:34; 9:22; 9:26; 9:44; 9:56; 9:58; 11:30; 12:8; 12:10; 12:40; 17:22; 17:24; 17:26; 17:30; 18:8; 18:31; 19:10; 21:27; 21:36; 22:22; 22:48; 22:69; 24:7; John 1:51; 3:13; 3:14; 5:27; 6:27; 6:53; 6:62; 8:28; 12:23; 13:31.

“When Jesus claims the title of I AM, he is claiming the divine title God revealed to Moses in Exodus 3. The Jews of his day understood exactly what Jesus was claiming…”

http://radicaltruth.net/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=98:where-does-jesus-say-i-am-god&catid=11:radical-truth-christianity&Itemid=9

“Jesus is called the Son of David fourteen times in the New Testament [by others].  However, the New Testament Jews knew the title, “Son of David,” as another title for the Messiah.”

http://www.learnthebible.org/jesus-called-the-son-of-david.html

You draw your own conclusions, Joe.  Contemporaneous jews called Jesus “son of David” - a uniquely Jewish appelation for the messiah - 14 times.  The bible makes no reference of Jesus accepting this name.  In fact he tells Peter and the apostles “not to make him known” as the Jewish messiah.

On the other hand, Jesus predominantly referred to himself in two appelations: Son of Man; and “I am.”  He never identified himself “son of david,” “son of abraham,” or “son of israel,” except indirectly in relation to jewish messianic expectations. He preferred to reveal himself as a man rather than as a jew.  He repeatedly emphasized that faith was no respecter of ethnic backround.  He infuriated the religious authorities by saying “the spirit blows where it will.”  He named a hated roman soldier as having more faith than any in israel.  He himself represented every cursed thing under mosaic law, and was completely spurned and rejected by jewish officialdom.  Early jewish christians were ejected from the synagogue and hunted, persecuted and killed by the jewish authorities.

The new testament records a complete split between the jewish nation, which was centralized in Jerusalem, and early christianity.  St. Paul, an ethnic jew says in Rom Ch 9, “would that I were accursed like my fellow jews, my kinsmen” who rejected God’s messiah.  Paul goes on to “shake the dust from his shoes” on ethnic jews because they obstinately rejected the gospel message.

It is a sentimental and obsequiously conciliatory gesture to accord to jewish people in our own day that the fullness of salvation which Christ won on the cross - except in the sense that all men may claim it.  Certainly, many jews in olden time “saw the day of Christ, and rejoiced over it.” But these OT saints belong to a people of God in strict continuity with the Church of God, and not a separate group in contradistinction from it, with a different dispensation.  To maintain any other thing is not only an affront to the truth, but a disservice to the jewish people: those who died to witness their faith in Christ, and those who are dying for lack of it.

Sorry for the long-winded answer, Joe.  Do I get a lollipop?

Joe, I penned my sleepless response this morning around 2am.  Whether you see it or not depends on the NCR censors.  Just know that I did not disregard your challenge, Matt

Matt B.  You are quoting from heresies = from heretics!!!  Holy Mother the Church teaches “That in the name of Jesus every knee should bow,…..and that every tongue should confess that the Lord Jesus Christ is in the glory of God the Father.”  Phil 2:10
“Even as the Son of man is not come to be ministered unto, but to minster and to give his life a redemption for many.”  Matt. 20:28
No lollipops!

Matt B you need to read the lives of the Saints and encylicals by our Holy Fathers protected by the infallible Holy Spirit.  Get a copy of “The Sources of Catholic Dogma” by Denzinger “1955” (not the new version). I wish I had more time to get into this topic.

Matt B.  Your comment that,  “The Jews are a nice and doctrinally sound people, who have yet to accept the central tenet of their own faith.”  Is condescending, insulting and utterly false.  The central tenet of Judaism is found in the book of Deuteronomy” ” Hear, oh Israel, the Lord the God is One.”  That is the central tenet of Judaism.  Also for Judiasm, unlike Christianity,its about deed, not creed.  Christians are concerned about who is “right” and who is “wrong” re doctrine or belief.  That is not part of Judaism

Also, there is no “old law”.  Again, an insulting, condescending, inaccurate remark from you.  God has different ongoing, unbroken covenants with Jews, with Christians, with Muslims.  There are three co-equal Abahamic traditions—none better than or triumphant over the others.  For Jews and Muslims, God does not require a belief in Jesus as God.  for Jews, the idea of heaven and hell are not central, important or even necessarily part of the tradition.  Jews seek to follow God’s commandment because they are God’s commandments and because it is the right thing to do.  Following God’s commandments because of some eternal reward or punishment at the end of life, is not part of Judaism.  From Dt 6, here is what God requires of Jews:  “Therefore, you shall love the LORD, your God, with your whole heart, and with your whole being, and with your whole strength. Take to heart these words which I command you today.Keep repeating them to your children. Recite them when you are at home and when you are away, when you lie down and when you get up. 8Bind them on your arm as a sign and let them be as a pendant on your forehead. Write them on the doorposts of your houses and on your gates.” 

Also, please not that keeping kosher is not part of all the movements within Judaism.  aS there ae many sects/denominations within Christianity, there are different movements withing Judaism.

Jews do not beleive that Jesus is the messiah because Jesus does not fit the definition of messiah.  The concept of messiah is a Jewish concept and is defined by Judaism.  Jesus does not fit the definition.  Christianity rejected the defintion of messiah and twsited it to fit Jesus.  That does make Jesus God or messiah.  The RCC does not have the right define who or who is not “saved” or or who does or does not receive God’s salvation.  God does that.  And God has done that via God’s ongoing, unbrken and valid, separate promises and covenants with Jews, Mulsims and Christians.

The RCC may or may not be “necessary” in our world.  That is God’s decision.  The idea that there is only one correct, right way to believe in God (who is beyond our knowing and comprehension), is the height of human hubris and arrogance. Christians are free to beleive that of course, but not free to impose that idea uopn others.  Not free to to trash all other faiths as wrong, etc. Jews do not beleive that only one faith is right and all others are wrong. Judaism is a path to God for those who choose Judaism as that path.  Elements of Islam say that Islam is the only true religion.  The RCC says it is the only true religion.  Where does that get anyone?  Nowhere. All righteous people have a place in the world to come.   
 

Lisa Kaiser -
It will assist you greatly to read the “Baltimore Catechism” or the ” THE CATECHISM OF THE COUNCIL OF TRENT” or “THE CATHOLIC CHURCH HAS THE ANSWER” Paul Whitcomb.  This book answers many questions most often posed to Catholics. Excellent and informative.  It explains exactly what Catholics believe—and why! Covers the Bible, Tradition, the true Church, the Mass, the Eucharist, Purgatory, prayer to Mary, repetitious prayer, faith and works, how to attain salvation, indulgences, the Inquisition, the confessing of sins to a priest, infallibility of the Pope, the Seven Sacraments, divorce, birth control, priestly celibacy—and much, much more! Fills a great need. Packed with facts and Scripture quotes. For Catholics, Protestants, and unbelievers!

THE POPES AGAINST MODERN ERRORS
Sixteen Papal Documents. In 1789, the French Revolution took place and launched a host of religious, political and social errors which the Popes for over 160 years afterward wrote and legislated against. Yet most of these errors have spread and today have filtered down to the common man, with the result that most people now take for granted many fundamental assumptions that are positively false! But almost from the beginning of these errors, the Popes spoke out as with one voice, inveighing against them. Today, as we see these errors bearing evil fruit, many thoughtful Catholics are returning to those Papal documents which condemned these modern errors, to examine what the Popes have said all along about them. Here, in one handy volume, are the best and most famous of those Papal denunciations:
•On Liberalism (Mirari Vos). by Gregory XVI, 1832.
•On Current Errors (Quanta Cura) by Pius IX, 1864.
•The Syllabus of Errors by Pius IX, 1864.
•On Government Authority (Diuturnum Illud) by Leo XIII, 1881.
•On Freemasonry and Naturalism (Humanum Genus) by Leo XIII, 1884.
•On the Nature of True Liberty (Libertas Praestantissimum) by Leo XIII, 1888.
•On the Condition of the Working Classes (Rerum Novarum) by Leo XIII, 1891.
•On Christian Democracy (Graves de Communi Re) by Leo XIII, 1901.
•Syllabus condemning the Errors of the Modernists (Lamentabili Sane) by St. Pius X, 1907.
•On Modernism (Pascendi Dominici Gregis) by St. Pius X, 1907.
•Our Apostolic Mandate (On the “Sillon”) by St. Pius X, 1910.
•The Oath Against Modernism (St Pius X, 1910).
•On the Feast of Christ the King (Quas Primas) by Pius XI, 1925.
•On Fostering True Religious Unity (Mortalium Animos) by Pius XI, 1928.
•On Atheistic Communism (Divini Redemptoris) by Pius XI, 1937.
•On Certain False Opinions (Humani Generis) by Pius XII, 1950.
Only by heeding the advice and counsel of these enlightened Roman Pontiffs will the world be able to cast off its yoke of error and enjoy once more true freedom:

“For there shall come a time, when they will not endure sound dotrine; but, according to their own desires, they will heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears: and will indeed turn away their hearing from the truth, but will be turned unto fables” (2 Timothy 4:3-4).

Thank you, Lisa, for your forebearance.  But since I’ve already waltzed out onto the branch of “hubris,” I’ll take yet another reckless step.  First, though, let me say that I have no idea of who will or will not be “saved.”  That determination does not fit into my job description.

However, your description of your jewish faith reminds me of my own catholic faith, and the parallels are not incidental.  Many christians (and catholics among them) feel precisely about their “religion” as you do about yours.

Many catholics take it as an entitlement that they are righteous and have a pure and enduring faith.  They feel dignified and pacific (until such time as they have to rear up to vanquish a presumptuous infidel waif like myself).  But I would say that complacent and dignified just about sums it up.  “Let whatever is… be.”

I’m not talking about jews or muslims or any group I don’t self-identify with.  Many catholics have just come to expect that God will necessarily be in their corner, that their world view is correct, and that everybody else is a (gay) bohemian.

But then, of a moment the God-train leaves the station, and you’re standing there on the platform, left behind.  The Almighty takes a left turn as you’re changing your car radio, and you wonder (miles later) what happened?  The temple is crashing around your ear, and you’re a stranger in pagan lands filled with “the worst of people.”  “But I did everything the law of Moses required!!?”

The only unbroken tradition I’m aware of is the (abject) need of a broken humanity for Abba God.  Self-sufficiency is the only arrogance I fear: in myself, and in those impeccably righteous and unbearably presumptuous “descendants of abraham.”  “From these stones… “

TRADITION AND THE CHURCH
Agius. Scripture and Tradition are the two sources of the Catholic Faith. Everyone knows what Scripture is, but what exactly is Tradition? This book exposes all aspects of Tradition. Making many important distinctions, Msgr. Agius explains the relationship of Tradition to Sacred Scripture, the means by which Tradition is safely transmitted, the reasons for the incorruption of Catholic Tradition, the bases of the Church’s dogmatic definitions, the authority and dominant role of the Fathers of the Church regarding what is included in Tradition. The author proves that Tradition preceeds Scripture. A profound explanation of what Tradition is. First published in 1928. 327 pages

Joe,

Having spent many decades as an RC (with 16 yrs of RC education, including a BA in RC theology), I know what RCs believe and why they believe what they beleive.

Lisa kaiser,  I am a Catholic.  You and I are in different Churches and not of the same faith, obviously.  I fear your RC Theology has led you astray. You never quote or support your positions from the Traditional and Magisterial Teachings of the Roman Catholic Church.

There is not one remaing Catholic university or college in the U S in spite of what the Cardinal Newman Society claims.  Conciliarism is not Catholicism.

Joe,

I am no longer RC.  God has called me to a different path and I am following God’s call in my life.  That being the case, I do not beleive in the “Traditional and Magisterial Teachings of the Roman Catholic Church”.  And yes, God does call people to other paths other th RCism.  RCism is not the only or sole path to God.  There are many paths.

THE CATHOLIC RELIGION PROVED BY THE PROTESTANT BIBLE
Recalls how Christ’s Church existed 350 years before the New Testament was under one cover and over 1400 years before it could be printed. The Protestant Bible itself proves the marks, attributes and basic doctrines of the ancient Church of Christ. Paperback - 29 pp. 

Joe,

The book you reference above sounds silly.  Seconldy, Judaism is much oler than RCis or Christianity.  Judiasm is about 4,500 yrs old.  The “church of of Christ is not ancient in comparison. If age is the criteria of the reliability of a religion, then, you should become a Jew. Secondly, it is perhaps your “RC theology” that has betrayed you.  God is beyond the understanding, comprehension and labeling by the “Traditional and Magisterial Teachings of the Roman Catholic Church.”  Your “theology” seems very narrow

Lisa kaiser, God never leads people away from His Church which is “the Way, the Truth, and the Life.” You confirm the serious conditions of the claimed Catholic schools. Tim Drake of N C R reported in 2010 (?) on students graduating from ‘Catholic’ universities and colleges having LESS faith than when they entered. (I’ll get more info on this if you want it.)

You need to run to a credible bishop or priest for the sake of your soul.  It is no small matter.

Lisa Kaiser, see Jesus Christ Crucified on the Cross - that is the only theology humanity needs to know. 
        Jesus Christ died for you, Lisa, and for me.  He had us on his mind.  Our sins nailed Him to the Cross and He who knew no sin reconciled us to Our Heavenly Father so that we might have everlasting life.  Christ is Our Redeemer and our pefect redemption.  Nothing can compare, nor can we can ever repay this amazing love expressed on the Cross.

Joe,

First and foremost, you do not speak for God.  You have absolutely no knowledge of how God calls people and to where God calls people.  The RCC does NOT contain the entirely of God’ truth.  You have swallowed the kool-aid of the bishops who are interested only in power, privilege and profit.  God has valid, ongoing, unbroken covenants and promises with Jews, Christians and Muslims.  The RCC is not better than or triumphant over any other religion.  Yes, you beleive that Jesus is God, etc.  That does not make it so.  The pope and bishops saying it, does not make it so.  The NT saying it does not make it so.  You are free to believe what you see fit to believe of course.  And so am I.

What about the blood of the martyrs, Lisa Kaiser, who died because they would not renounce what Jesus Christ, the Second Person of the Blessed Trinity did for them?

Lisa kaiser,  most people leave the Catholic Church because of a remarriage. It’s time to get back to the basics and be blessed because you did:
RADIO REPLIES I, II, III
Frs. Rumble and Carty. Famous 3-volume set containing 4,374 questions and answers on all aspects of the Faith. Especially pertinent today.  Hard-hitting and no-nonsense.

Matt B and Lisa K:
POPE GREGORY XVI   Mirari Vos
On Liberalism and Religious Indifferentism.

This fits the topic of discussion.  Obedience to it would have restrained the powers in Washington:
Pope Leo XIII Diuturnum
On Civil Government. A defense of authority for the security of the State and the common good; how authority comes from God; our Christian duty towards it. 

Joe,

I am not certain what martyrs have do with proving that Jesus is God.  Many faith traidtions have those who have died for their faith.  Long before there was Christianity, Jews died for their faith at the hands of Babylonians and Greeks.  Jews were marytred for their faith at the hands of the RCC during the 600 yrs of the Inquistion.  The RCC also tortured and murdered those who sought reformation of the RCC.  Queen Mary (the daughter of Henry VIII) tortured and murdered Protestants,  The RCC tortured and killed their own Knights Templar in the 14th century.  So Christians have killed Christains for being the “wrong kind” of Christian.  How does that figure into your idea that Christian martyrs prove that Jesus was God?  In more contemporary times, Buddhists have died for their faith at the hands of the Chinese Communists in Tibet and in other southeast Asian nations.  Muslims would make the argument that they died for their faith at the hands of Christian crusaders (who also murdered other non-RC Christians in the Byzantimne Empire). 

The fact that Christians were murdered for their faith by the Roman Empire does not prove that Jesus was God.  In all faith traditions, there those who will die for their faith.

Joe,

RE the teachings of the Pope Leo XIII:  Thankfully the USA is free nation.  The USA is not an RC theocracy.  Thankfully the USA is free from the corruption and arrogance of the Vatican, its popes, and bishops and cardinals.  Here in the USA, our secular society is separate from the supposed “authority” of any faith traidition.  The USA is thankfully not a Christain nation.  Here in the USA we are free to be Buddhists, Sikhs, Jews, Mulsims, non-RC Christians,Jains, Hindus ( we even now have new Hindu member of Congress who will take her oath of office by placing her hand on the Hindu scriptures).  What happens in Rome needs to stay in Rome.  It is not an example for the US.

Lisa, I agree with you that God calls people by different ways.  However, I don’t agree that the Catholic faith is in any way deficient in the truth.  “We see now indistinctly, as in a mirror; then we shall see clearly, even as we are seen.”

When my father sent me off to college with frank and wise words, I could think of nothing I wanted to do more than “drink the kool-aid.”  He stayed with me throughout the mottled times, and I was glad to find him there as I came out of my stupor.

I love you and believe in you, and expect to meet with you in a place of peace and refreshment, at a fitting time.  Until then,

Matt B,

The RCC is a path to God.  It is not the only path.  It is not the only faith tradition that refelcts the truth of God.  We are all children of God and all righteous people (non-Christians and Christians alike) will have a place in the world to come—whatever that world is, however God wills it.

It’s hard for me to reconcile a rigid attitude on the subject of people’s salvation with my own embarassing lack of any knowledge whatsoever upon which to base a judgment. 

This has nothing to do with the truth of the gospel, or the doctrines of the Catholic church.  It simply relies upon my own appalling lack of knowledge. 

How can I reliably witness that Lisa Kaiser is failing in her obligation to herself and her maker, when my understanding of these things is severely constrained?  Or how can I assert that Joe is a “righteous man,” when it is completely beyond me to establish this? 

My understanding of scripture and religion is not that it gives me a basis for condemnning someone, or even giving approbation to another.  Rather my faith tells me that it is my job to assist all in reaching a conclusive knowledge of faith for themselves.  This is best carried out by the example of my life, rather than the hollow ringing of my words. 

That is why, although I don’t think it a matter of indifference what one believes, I trust in my Savior to engineer a coup in the lives of the doubtful, as he did in my own.  I know my Redeemer lives; and his arm is not too short to save.

Matt B,

You have no right to judge whether or not I am “failing my obigation to myself or to my maker”  You are free to believe that Jesus is God and messiah.  That does not make it true.  Becasue the RCC say that Jesus i God and messiah does not make it true.  That the Bible may say it, does not make it true.  What is the refusal to acknowledge that non-Christian faith traditions are vaild and part of God’s design for the world???  what is this hubris /arrogance that says only some Christians have the “truth”????  Matt, the Muslims think everyone who does not believe in Allah and that Mohammed was His prophet are failing.  So where doe that leave us??  With a shouting match among those who thinl that there faith tradition (whatever it s) is the one and only true faith—“You are failing.”  “No, you are failing.” “No you are failing.” “No you are faliling.”  ad infinitum, ad nauseam.

What is this RC obsession with the idea that the RCC is the one and only true faith???  Look around.  There are three Abrahamic traditions—Judaism, Christianity and Islam.  God has made ongoing,unbrken, valid, and separate covenants with each of the Abrahamic traditions.  Each exists becasue God wills it.  God loves and provides God’s love and grace to Jews and Muslims (and Buddhists, and Hindus and Sikhs, etc, etc).

If you want to believe the RCC is the on true faith—go for it.  But know that that does not mean everyone else is “failing”.  Only God has the right to judge. 

Within the Judeo-Christian tradition there are seven (7) “Noahide Laws”—the basic tenets for living a righteous life.  These laws are spearate and apart from any faith tradition.  The first six were given to Adam and Eve, the seventh was given to Noah—-none of whom were Jews, Christians, Mulsims, Hindus, Budhhists, etc. 

If you want to be an RC—then be that.  But know that other people fell jsut as passionately abou their faith traidtion, that other faith traditions lead to God, lead people to live righteous lives.

Lisa Kaiser, conciliarism (at false ‘Catholic’ colleges) has done a major disservice to you.

I hope the readers of this blog note that Lisa K claims she has had years of ‘Catholic’ education.  Lisa K is living proof of what is going on in claimed ‘Catholic’ schools and that is that Catholicism is being destroyed.  Lisa K should demand a refund and file a complaint with the canonists at the Saint Joseph Foundation, in San Antonio, Texas for fraud.  But of course she’s unable to do so because I seriously believe that she is justifying something that she hates that the Catholic Church teaches. 
        The Cardinal Newman Society should read Lisa K’s new found faith system after attending, no doubt, one of the schools they claim as “Catholic”.  I am truly sorry, Lisa Kaiser, that you have such little regard for the destination of your soul.  To live in disobedience to the Commandments of God is something we should all fear.  Eternity is unimaginably a long time. 

Thank you Matthew for your clear and direct analysis of the past elections. You are pointing us in the right direction when it comes to future elections.  Lets get involved and start to turn the culture around like the liberals have been doing for the past 40 plus years.  The roots of our demise has been clearly established - it has been in our schools which have been the breeding grounds for this transformation of our children into a voting electorate which has betrayed our Christian principles.
What is needed now is a dedicated plan to re-establish the Christian values which have been so seriously eroded by the liberal agenda.  We must all get active in establishing Christians Clubs in our schools to turn the beat around.
This brings to mind “The Charge of the light Brigade”- lets bring the light back into our schools by bringing the truth back to our schools. Formation of Christian clubs in all of our public schools would be the beginning of a great renewal.  The truth is an overwhelming weapon but it needs exposure.  We must regain our schools so our future leaders will be of good Christian stock. 

Lisa, pan-theology attempts a vast syncretism, but results in muddled logic.  If everything is equally valid, then nothing is wrong, and the world is a sea of indifference.  The mark of a good religion is that it separates: poor performace from good performance, right actions from wrong actions, and excellence from mediocrity.  Your abrahamic amalgam consolidates a lot of different colors, and comes out muddy grey.  Syncretist observe the mountains from the valley below, noting similarities of the heights.  Religionists climb.  And regardless of the surface similarities, significant differences exist between faith traditions.  This is true not simply because I hold it to be true.  It’s like the difference between Mick Jagger and my father.  From his numerous conquests, Jagger can claim a knowledge of women unsurpassed among mere frogs like myself.  My father, however, spent his days working and slaving for his sole spouse and their 8 children.  I leave it to you to imagine who I consider to be more the man.

Joe,

the idea of Hell is a silly superstition that the has been implanted in the minds of the gullible.  One follows God because it God so commands and becauase it is right.  follwoing God becasue one fears Hell is a wrong motivation.

It seems you do not have the knowledge and skills to refute anything I I ave said above, so you resort to saying inaccurate things about my education.  You may have also missed the comment where I indicated that I am no longer RC.  And given the kind of attitudes and superstitions that I see in the comments abov from so-called RCs, I am glad that God ahs called me elsewhere.  The RCC is slipping back into the Middle ages and the gullible are happily following along.  Sad, very very sad.

Lisa Kaiser,  A great Saint said, “One cannot have God as Father who does not have Church as Mother”.  Being a Roman Catholic is not an easy nor popular life.  It is walking the narrow road and few are on it.  I am sorry you lost your way going to ‘catholic’ colleges.  You should ask for a refund and added compensations for your anguish.

Joe,

I did not “lose my way” going to a RC college.  You are making a totally bizarre and inaccruate assumption. God has called me to a different path- an excellent path. I am following God’s call in my life. The idea that the only worthwhile path via the RCC is just incorrect and is the kool-aid the RC bishops want to peddle because it serves their interests re power, profit and privilege.  The RCC is a path to God, but its not the only path and too bad you feel that path is narrow, confined, restricted.  Perhaps it is you who has lost his way.  God’s creation and God’s call is not narrow.  It is expanisve, diverse and dynamic.  ALL righteous people have a place inthe world to come.

“God’s call is expansive, diverse and dynamic.”  It is also exclusively demanding, rigorous and challenging.  Why does the paradoxical nature of God and his call elude you?

You obviously did not exit the Catholic Church, Lisa.  You merely graduated from one branch of protestantism to another.  I doubt whether you even came into contact with an authentic Catholic at all during your stint.  Or if you did, they probably appeared to you as dinosaurs.  You never knew them or understood them.  (You were, however, bedazzled by everything “out there,” or “other.”)

I never said you were failing in your obligations to God and yourself.  However I do detect a signal failure of the imagination.  Let me leave with the words of Dorothy from the Wizard of Oz: “there’s no place like home… there’s no place like home.”  I’m betting that after your search is over, you’re going to find that Timbuktu looks a lot like Arkansas from the inside out.

Matt B,

Yes God’ call is demanding, etc.  I know thar first hand.  But the RCC is not he place where God call people.  God calls people to many differnt palces and to many different faith traiditions.

You missed the comment where I said I am no longer RC and also I am not a protestant.  You amke,weird, bizarre, inaccare statements about the RCs I know and have known.  You seem delusional.

Also, my imagination is fine.  You certainly do not detect failure.  You have no idea what you are talking about.  Your weird, bizarre, inaccrate ideas ans assumptions just make you look silly and desparate to defnd the indefensible.

OK - you win.

Pope Leo XIII “Exeunte Jam Anno”  On the Right Ordering of Christian Life.                                                                “It is a common complaint,” says Leo XIII, “that the age is barren of courageous men.”
            The solution? A Christian rule of life, as outlined by the Sovereign Pontiff.

Wow,

I thought this thread ended a long time ago. Imagine, if you can, how entirely silly all your posts would be if there were no supernatural anything. Lisa at least has an open mind and believes that there are many ways to God. Joe thinks that the RCC is the one true path to heaven. He actually seems to think that you can be condemned to eternal damnation if you get it wrong.  What if John Lennon had the right idea when he sang: “Imagine there’s no heaven. It’s easy if you try. No hell below us. Above us only sky. Imagine all the people living for today.”  So just suppose for a moment that there really is no God. Who would feel the most embarrassed?  You all have a chance of being right. But, then again, you all may be wrong.

Bill, sadly mistaken.  The ultimate justification for belief in God is that it brings happiness in this life as well as the next.  It is a prescription for “right living,” even beyond the superficial philosophies of atheism and nihilism.

Joe vis a vis Lisa: Joe’s conviction drives him to share the “good news.”  He is the possessor of a sovereign theology or idea.  People like Joe have driven railroads across vast continents, sailed impassible oceans, traversed cloud-hidden mountain ranges, discovered and done.

Lisa on the other hand is like an amoeba wallowing in a sea of nutrient, ingesting all, reflecting all, accepting all.  She has no reason or ability to differentiate or proclaim.  She is living on karma alone.  Her philosophy has condemned billions of people to a passive aggressive existence of milk and lotus flowers.

Lisa may be filled with good qualities; and Joe may be a cretin.  However, I know who I would prefer if my house were on fire; and apparently it is.

“The ultimate justification for belief in God is that it brings happiness in this life as well as the next.”

I agree that that is the best justification that can be offered. But is it really enough?  It brings some happiness to some people but just as much misery to others. It brings hope for the next life as opposed to the nihilism of atheism. But is any of that proof, or even evidence?  What exactly is a “sovereign theology”?  Is it a version of the truth that reigns above all other philosophies?  Does any of this justify the Inquisition or the eradication of lesser religions?  What if the truth is that there really is no rhyme or reason to life other than what you make of it?  What if when you die you simply cease to exist?  Would this be so hard to accept that you would have to believe in ancient legends and be ruled by the sellers of dreams?  What is so terrible in facing up to the truth even if it doesn’t make you feel as good as a bunch of wives’ tales?  How did it feel when you found out there was no Santa Claus?  Did you survive?

THIS ELECTION HAS BEEN A BLESSING ONLY IN THE FACT THAT I HAVE LESS JOY IN BEING AN AMERICAN AND MORE JOY IN BEING A CONVICTED CATHOLIC.

Why do you feel like a convicted Catholic as a result of the election?  And why does that bring you joy?

Matt B,  You are making silly/nonsensical comments.  If your house was on fire, you would not care about a firefighter’s faith tradition.  You would the fire put out.

Yes, I do differentiate.  There are cults out there, there are right-wing extremists/fundamentalists in all faith traditions.  My faith tradition treats its adherents like adults—-we do not force our message on others, we accept that there are many paths to God, our clergy do not try to threaten us over how we vote, when we engage scripture, we understand that it has many layers of meanings and that it speaks to different people in different ways (we do not force people to accept a “correct” interpretation, we do not need a priest as intermediary between us and God, we do not need or accept a centralized clerical hierarchy, we do not think that every American needs to belong to our faith tradition or that our faith tradition needs to be imposed upon every American.  When my faith tradition accepts funding from the federal or state governments we understand that we need to comply with the rules of the funding and don’t whine that we should get the money even if we do not want to follow the rules of the funding.  We hire and fire clergy, lay-led boards lead the operations of the congregation, we have a sensible, time-tested way to bring a predictable stream of revenue to the congregation so bills can be paid, no one person has sole authority over congregation finances. We realize that no human being is infallible when speaking on any subject, including faith and morals.  We do not kiss the rings of clergy.  Again, my faith tradition treats its adherents like adults

There’s no Santa Claus?  I thought he was me.

The old wives tales you mention can be taken on their own, and bear out a truth which is transcendent and real.  You just have to encounter them.  Of course, if you believe in Bart Simpson and Mad Housewives, you never will.

Sovereign theology is a true liberation theology.  It liberates the believer to be his or her true self: which is a child of the Almighty God.  If you were descended from the King of the Universe, you might feel different about things.

The common misunderstanding about (the inquisition, the crusades, priest pedophelia, you name it) is based upon anachronistic thinking.  If you were pope at the time, you might consider the same course of action, and be canonized for it.  Regarding our overly sanguine view of human progress in present times, I remind you that 1/6 of the worlds population has perished from self-induced aspiration.

Once again, the evidence for scriptural truth is purely internal.  It is true not because I say it is, but because it is.  I merely recognize it.

Lisa, your faith tradition is garden variety american protestantism.  It can only subsist in a culture which is dying, like a leech on the belly of a dead pig.  You will find this out in 20 years, as you shuttle like a cockroach between the madras and your kitchen garden, arrayed in a turgid pea-green burqua.

“What if the truth is that there really is no rhyme or reason to life other than what you make of it?  What if when you die you simply cease to exist?”

Well that’s the question, Bill, isn’t it.  It basically comes down to choice.

The Christian proposition is that life is eternal - it goes on forever.  After death, you receive the fulness of life, like you never imagined it.  It is said by mystics and survivors of a near-death experience that, after “being there,” this life on earth seems insipid and vaporous.  It is the “life beyond” that is full and real.

But how are you going to experience and enjoy that full life if you’ve been timid and weak about the little life you have here below?  If you can’t “run with men,” how are you going to “run with horses,” as the Bible says?

The predominant malaise of people today is not materialism, which is really antimaterialism.  It is a “sickness unto death:” a reluctance to accept the gift of life, to second-guess the gift and the giver.

Nihilism is about denying life in the midst of a plethora of empirical evidence.  Loving God is about accepting life, exploring life, reveling in life, demanding life, reverencing life, being a channel of life to others - despite the sickness of death-worship and necrophilia which is creeping through humanity like gangrene.

So the Church really is pro-choice.  You chose either life or death; blessing or curse; to live or to die.  It’s the ultimate self-fulfilling prophecy.  As the song says: “You want it… You got it!”  Or am I dating myself.

Sylvania: “Convicted Catholic.”  I don’t know I like the sound of that.  And I’m not at all sure that this is not the shape of things to come: doing the perp walk out of Churches that fail to recognize “gay marriages,” ordain “woman priests,” or preach the Obama message of peace, love and tubal ligation to a world desperately in want of sedatives and contraception.

Matt B:

Just about everything you say reflects your own world view.  You have made a choice to accept the teachings of a nearly two thousand year old institution.  It all comes down to the choice between life and death. As Moses said: “Choose life”. So instead of reality (which unfortunately must acknowledge death), you choose to believe the promise of eternal life and you skew all your arguments to uphold this belief. You think that you have chosen to live on for all eternity. But that is not the choice that is available to you, me or anyone else. The choice is whether to accept or reject reality and you have chosen to reject it.

Lisa Kaiser = If our love for the Church Christ established, the Roman Catholic Church is weak, if our recourse to her is not confident, it indicates a lack of the spirit of faith.  We have not sufficiently understood that the One Church is Christ continuing to live in our midst to lead us to eternal beatitude.  (There is no other way.)  There is nothing more noble and more honorable than membership in the Holy Roman Catholic Church by which we become members of the Mystical Body of Christ nourished with one doctrine and the same heavenly Bread…….Let us love the Church, the most perfect Image of Christ…..He purchased with His own Blood…Let us love the Church with true devotion and obedience, offering ourselves to completely serve, glorify and defend her……..  (from Mystici Corporis by Pope Pius XII).

Papal encyclicals are addressed by the Pope to his followers. They are not to be taken seriously by non-Catholics. Pope Pius XII also stated ex cathedra that Mary was assumed into heaven, body and soul, which is a physical impossibility. The Pope is supposed to be infallible when speaking ex cathedra. But I don’t think Pius or any of the others should be taken seriously, especially by non-Catholics.

Bill S, you dare to contest the infallibility of the Holy Spirit?!  The Vicar of Christ is the personal representative of Jesus Christ for ALL souls.  You have free will to reject Him and these infallible pronouncements at a grave risk.

Matt B,

My faith tradition has nothing to do with the protestants and the orgin of my faith traidtion is not American.  It is a tradition that exists in many parts of the world. And there is nothing “garden variety” about it.  My faith tradition is ancient—more ancient than your “christianity”. From your comments, you seems to think that your “christinaity” is better than any other faith traidition.  It is not.  The rest of your comments make you look silly, bigoted, paranoidm and out of touch

OK. I’ll bite.

What infallible pronouncements are we talking about?  And what is this “grave risk” that you are referring to?  You’re not going to try to tell me that if I don’t believe that Mary rose up into the sky to God knows where, that I will go to Hell, are you?

Joe,

The infallibility of the pope, the idea of hell, the idea that one goes to hell for ignoring the pope and his pronouncements, the idea of the RCC as the only true faith—are rank superstitions meant for the gullible, promulgated by the RC hierarchy which is interested only in power, profit and privilege.  What the RCC teaches and what God teaches are two entirely different things.

To Bill S.,

In regards to your question, “If I don’t believe that Mary rose up into the sky to God knows where, that I will go to Hell, are you?” First you are not presenting the Catholic teaching accurately. The Catholic Church teaches that Mary is the first human fully redeemed. It does not teach that she rose under her own power as your statement implies. If we are fully redeemed at the end the same will happen to us. As far as placing the status or your soul in “grave risk” it could depend on the motives for your belief. If you believe so through invincible ignorance than it may not impact you. If your motive is through pride that you are not open to what God’s church teaches than you should do an examination of conscience and repent. Pride can be very subtle and cancerous.  I will pray for you that it is not pride. I would appreciate if you also would pray for me.

I’d be interested in knowing exactly what believers think it is that God really does teach?  There is infinite information about this life, this world, this universe, etc. How is it that we look to a few ancient texts as containing the most important wisdom that can be bestowed on mankind?  What is it about sacred traditions from periods when humans were less sophisticated that seems to be so important to follow now?

I got interested in this blog because I thought I could learn something about faith that makes people so upset about the election. But I haven’t been able to find anything that would change my views on the matter.

Jesus Christ crucified on the wood of the Cross for you and for me says it all, Lisa Kaiser.  Who can compare to this Amazing Love? 
The Virgin Most Pure to give birth to a Redeemer was prophesized centuries before.  The appearance of He who was born to die for us was previously announced.  These are actual historical effects.

Bill S.  All legitimate Councils promulgated by Popes, and the teachings of Popes on matters of faith and morals are binding to Catholics for the sake of saving their soul and to achieve safety, peace and happiness while on this earth.  All society is put at risk when one chooses their own way.  Also absorb this good post by Phill:
Posted by Phill on Monday, Nov 26, 2012 11:57 AM (EDT):

“If your motive is through pride that you are not open to what God’s church teaches than you should do an examination of conscience and repent.”

Thank you Phil. I am comfortable in my beliefs which do not coincide the RCC teaching. If that seems to you to be some sort of sinful pride, I am sorry. To me it is just intelligence.

Bill S you asked, “What is it about sacred traditions from periods when humans were less sophisticated that seems to be so important to follow now?”

Beware of those who change truth to a different definition.  Truth is the same yesterday, today and tomorrow. 
        Holy Mother the Church stands on not only Sacred Scripture (She gave the bible to the world) but also the Magisterium (the Vicar of Christ who safeguards and promulgates the Total Deposit of Faith) and Sacred Tradition (the world could not contain books for all that Christ personally taught to His Apostles, the first bishops). 

These three are upheld, Sacred Scripture, Magisterium and Sacred Tradition, in the One, Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic Church.

So, who died for your faith, Bill S?  Who announced your forth coming and self seeking ways and independence?  Why would anyone follow?

Sorry Joe. I had 12 years of Catholic education and had been faithful till about a year ago. You and I have been brainwashed. The only difference is that I was wise enough to question everything and to come up with real answers. You will die in ignorance but you won’t know the difference.

Bill S.  I commiserate with you Bill S in the so-called and claimed Catholic colleges, universities and parochial schools.  They are miserably failing to teach the Catholic faith.  Ask Tin Drake of the N C R to report once again on these ‘catholic’ schools’ failings and I’ll try to give you the article he wrote in 2010 when I have more time. I want to be reminded!!!

Will you be getting a refund from these claimed Catholic schools?  Have you reported this to the Cardinal Newman Society and have you reported this to The Saint Joseph Foundation?  These are organizations to defend the Catholic faith, so they say.  Make a noise Bill S!!!  I encourage you.  I know these schools are faulty for many reasons.

Bill S,

I believe in God (am former RC, now belong to another non-Christian faith tradition).  Over almost six decades of live, I have come to believe that God teaches us through his natural creation. The lessons of God via creation seem to me to be:  everything is dynamic, ever changing, what does not change, goes extinct.  Nothing is static.  That diversity is important for life.  It is vital to have differences (in climates, weather systems, ecosystmes, in species of living things, in human systems).  That everything in nature is necessary and connected. That all creation reflects God in some way.  Scripture reminds us that all human beings are created in the image of God.  In the discovery of human DNA, we see that all human beings are have the same biology—that race, that gender, are in a sense artifacts of our humanness.  But hat our eseential humanness is the same for all of us—human DNA is human DNA.  Being white or male does not make a person more human, more in the image of God, better, etc.  God teaches us that when we choose to ignore or when we forget that each person is made in the image of God, that is when we get into trouble, when we separate ourselves from God.

The opening words of Genesis, In the beginning, God created….”.  In the original Hebrew of scripture, this can be tranlsated in the present tense ” In the beginning of God’s creating…”  So God teaches that creation is ongoing, is not finished.

I believe that God manifests God to each person in differnt ways.  In my tradition we speak of the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, the God Jacob, the God of Sarah, the God Rebecca, the God of Leah and the God of Rachel.  Because God manifested God in a differnt way to each of the patriarchs and matriarchs, and to each of us.

When Moses encounters God at the burning bush Moses pushes God to give God’s name to Moses.  God is reluctant to do this (perhaps becasue to name something is to limit it, to put it in a fixxed category?).  God finally says (as God’s words are usually translated):  ” I AM WHO AM”.  But in the original Hebrew of scripture, God’s words can be translated ib the future tense:  ” I WILL BE WHO I WILL BE.”  And I think God teaches us something in that as well.  That perhaps God, like God’s creation, is dynamic , not static.

Bill, I have come from 17 years of agnosticism with hostility to the Catholic Church to an acceptance of what Christs church has to offer. St. Paul tells us that “the manifold wisdom of God is made known through the church.” I don’t believe that Jesus just scattered ideas that were left in the foundational documents but that he founded an organization to guard those ideas. Thank you Frank Sheed

My parents sent me to Catholic schools because they were thought to provide a better overall education. The religious training was just something to be tolerated not embraced. My favorite teacher was a humble old priest who taught calculus. I found out from his eulogy that he was the founder of the school. Who would have ever known?

I did not get too little religious instruction. I got too much. Especially in hindsight when I realize how screwed up all that bs was. You have a very skewed outlook as far as Church teaching is concerned. Very few Catholics swallow it hook, line and sinker like you do. I don’t know how anyone can help you see things more rationally.

Phil,

To be an agnostic is to be in a vulnerable position. How you went from that to RC is a mystery.

Joe,

The RCC did not give the Bible to the world.  The Hebrew scriptures (which christians profess to believe also) came from Judaism.  It is inaccruate, wrong and total nonsense to claim that the RCC created the Hebrew scriptures—which pred-dated the birth of Jesus by about 2,500 yrs. Jesus taught straight from the Torah because he was an observant Jew.  All those things that are called “christian values” come from Judaism, come from the Hebrew scripturea.  Jesus used parables etc to teach the values found in Hebrew scripture. Jesus taught nothing new re love of God and love of other people.  Please do not claim for the RCC what was not created by the RCC.

“Over almost six decades of life, I have come to believe that God teaches us through his natural creation.”

I agree with that if I am forced to accept the concept of a God. I would just as soon say that Nature teaches us everything we need to know.

“Please do not claim for the RCC what was not created by the RCC.”

The Bible was compiled by the Church in the fourth century. Writings came from multiple sources.

Caught between a mother-goddess worshipper and a man who has just come to realize that “death is.”  What’s a believer to do? 

I will most likely continue to go on appearing “silly, bigoted, paranoidm and out of touch,” if for no other reason than “once a clown, always a clown.”  It never was my skill or inclination to cozy up to cognoscenti.  They all “know better.”  And who’s to say?

However, it does pain me that you, Bill, have turned from the fountain of life to a deep disillusionment.  It’s not at all about “being right.”  It’s about happiness, and finding and fulfilling the purpose of your own existence.  I don’t know what church you worshipped at, but it’s clearly not mine.  My Church is a vaulting place for eternity.  I know that because I experience eternity even now.  It washes me clean of all the mire you have accumulated in such ample measure.

I invite you in.

Matt B,

So you think God’s creation, including us, is irrelevant?  That God does not speak through God’s creation?  That God created the world and there is nothing to learn about God from that creation??  That the only place to learn about God is the RCC?  Wow!  What anarrow viewpoint! God was just wasting God’s time by creating the heavens and the earth?  You think that appreciation for God’s creation is “mother=goddess worhsip”???  Wow, you need some leassons in reading comprehension.  Because I mentioned nothing about a “mother goddess” or “mother-godess worhsip”.  I was talking about the the act of creation by the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, the God of Jacob, the God of Sarah, the God of REbecca, the God of leah, the God of Rachel.  You know, the God that you “christians” mention in the Nicene Creed (” I believe in God the Father, the Almighty, maker of heaven and earth, of all things seen and unseen”).  So by your logic the your Nicene Creed begins with a mother-goddess worhsip”  Who knew????

Joe,

Long before the 4th century CE, the world had the Hebrew scriptures.  Ancient copies of these ancietn scriptures were found among the Dead Sea Scrolls.  The RCC gave the world the NT.  That’s it.  The world already had the Hebrew scriptures.  Jesus had the Hebrew scriptures, all his followers had the Hebrew scriptures. Peter and Paul ahd the Hebrew scriptures.  The RCC did nothing re compiling the Herew scripture.  The fac that they are included in christian bible is an acknowledgement by the RCC of the origins/roots/basis for christianity.

“Caught between a mother-goddess worshipper and a man who has just come to realize that “death is.”  What’s a believer to do?”

That’s a funny line. Glad you haven’t lost your sense of humor.  We all have to die someday. Coming to grips with that fact ought to make us savor every moment. I felt the best about life when I made my Cursillo in Feb.2009. I felt the worst when I came to the conclusion that it was all a bunch of wishful thinking. I am presently a useless slug so I know what faith can do and what doubt can do. I still practice the RC faith in the hope of feeling joy again. But my intellect tells me otherwise. Given the choice, I would believe. But I don’t have any choice because I’m pretty sure that I know what I know and am not delusional. Pretty deep, huh?

Lisa, this is a red herring.  Catholics have a long tradition of “reading the book of nature.”  Haven’t you heard about Catholic reverence for the “natural law.”  And certainly if you can find it in the Hebrew Scriptures, it’s part of Catholic tradition.

I don’t know, but I’m guessing, that the brand of Judaism you practice has been carefully “refined” by modern observance.  Certainly your emphasis on “abrahamic tradition” goes against all three of these traditions individually.  Translation: New Age Eclecticism.

The problem with all half-truths, is that they are at least, well, half true.  The problem with all mix-and-match religions is that they usually retain all the nice fuzzy doctrines, but weed out the really hard ones.  The problem with anti- this or that is that by hating, you usually become the thing or things you hate the most.

I think we could argue about scriptural giants.  But I think we could also agree.  Abraham was a giant.  Sarah was a giant.  We should also be able to get beyond patent absurdities like: Catholicism ignores nature.  Where, then, would all those 1B+ Catholics be coming from?  (Present-day apostacy notwithstanding.)

Matt B,

Again with your lack of reading comprehension.  I did not say that the RCC ignores nature.  I sais nothing about how the RCC view/teaches about nature/creation.  Your comments are another matter.  Your comments totally dissed the idea that we can learn from God’s creation.  You called it “mother-goddess worhsip”.  And you clearly have no clue about Judaism.  I do not practice “new age electicism” or m” mix and match religion”.  I do not hate the RCC—but do abhor its corrupt and criminal hierarchy.  That is your weird, bizare, inaccrate idea—which is very far from the truth.  The patent absurdities are not in what the RCC teaches, but in the comments you are posting.

Lisa: You are taking Joe to task for something that I said regarding the Church compiling the Bible. We know that the Church had nothing to do with writing the Old Testament. But it did select the books that would be included in the canon. That’s all I was saying. I respect you for your beliefs even though I don’t believe in any supernatural anything. The closest thing to the supernatural for me is Nature itself. But even that is natural not supernatural. To me, the God of Abraham is the most important fictional character in the history of humanity.  The Old Testament doesn’t describe what I would consider a God with any accuracy and the New Testament doesn’t do much better. And the RCC does even worse. It’s all pretty screwed up if you ask me.

Bill S,

You are right, i lost track of who said what re the compilation of the Bible.  Mea culpa.  I apologize to you and to Joe.  And I would agree that scripture (neither Jewish nor Christian) describes God with any accuracy.  One of my theology professors asserted that anything we say about God is a lie because God is beyond our understanding.  We can only struggle to talk about the Unknowable in terms we can understand.  And you are right about it all being pretty screwed up.

Haven’t you heard about Catholic reverence for the “natural
law.”

I hate to be picky, but the RCC is presuming to to identify something as the “natural law” that is neither natural nor a law. According to the RCC, homosexuality is against this natural law. But there ain’t no such thing. Gravity is a natural law. I was indoctrinated in this so called natural law in high school. I now know that such a law never was and never will be.

Your right, Lisa.  I’m not spending enough time trying to understand your comments.  I’m reading way too much into them.  I’m also expecting that you understand what I’m writing, but that’s apparently too much to expect.  Shalom.

Bill, “NO IT’S NOT!!!” is not an argument.  Sorry for the abuse you suffered at the hands of the “bad” catholic church.  That flakey christian brother had no idea who he wah messin’ wiff.  I’ll see you when you get over your persecution anxiety.

Matt: What do you mean “NO IT’S NOT” is not an argument? I didn’t say I was abused and I don’t have a persecution complex. I was instructed using a textbook called “God’s Moral Law” which I kept for reference to examine my conscience.  Now that I am older and wiser I see major flaws in what is supposed to be accepted as “Natural Law”. You have to keep the Church in its place. Otherwise it will walk all over you with its arbitrary and capricious moral laws.

So, what is your argument?  Where am I wrong?

Bill, I honestly don’t know.

Yeah. We should stop arguing about this. I actually believe that faith is a good thing. But I don’t have it and I shouldn’t ruin it for those who do have it. Sorry. As you were.

To be an agnostic is to be in a vulnerable position. How you went from that to RC is a mystery.

When I studied psychology at a University I originally fell away from my faith and became an agnostic.

Looking back on it now God’s grace began to work on me later through people and a number of incidents in my life. It began with a sidewalk missionary whoI encountered when I was entertaining suicidal thoughts. I unloaded a bunch of anger and hostility on him and that was the first incident. Actually it took my mind away from considering suicide and that was a beginning.I didn’t convert then but there were other following incidents. They became cumulative and sparked an interest in doing some reading and investigating and then one day I had the urge to come home. I acted on the urge and came home. I have only gratitude.

It’s good to have something that gives your life meaning and purpose. I have known that feeling of being home and I miss it now that I have “lost my faith”.  If you have been following my posts, I mentioned that I made my Cursillo (little course in Catholicism) in 2009. But for some reason I started to research what the other side had to say. I listened to The God Delusion on an audiobook and soon became a closet convert to the new atheism. My wife, inlaws and friends are all believers and they think that I am one too. I belong to a men’s group and even the Knights of Columbus. I hope to reconcile my beliefs so I don’t tell anyone my present status. I’m sorry for spreading seeds of doubt and hope I haven’t adversely effected anyone’s faith. There are just things I need to work out under this venue.

The Catholic Church has more than once taught what books were Holy Spirit inspired to make up the biblical canon.  The Council of Trent in 1546 solemnly defined the canon of books.  Until the printing press all Christians read the same bible.  Four centuries later (1943) Pope Pius XII reconfirmed the list of books in the encyclical “Divino Afflante Spiritu”.  Many books were written.  It is the Roman Catholic Church,  the living organization,  that certified the sacred writings.  Sacred Scripture cannot certify itself; it needed a living authority.

Joe: In reality, the Church selected those books that were consistent with the story that it wanted to convey. Do your really think that all these writers were doing their thing and it turned out that some were inspired by the Holy Spirit and others were heretics inspired by the Devil?  They all wrote what they believed. The ones who towed the party line were accepted. The others were rejected. As a result, we accept the books that made the cut as “Gospel Truth” and reject the others as heresy. Life really isn’t that black and white. There are shades of gray that should be considered in discerning the truth. Fortunately, other documents have been preserved and discovered to give us a less biased look at what people were saying and thinking. Otherwise, all other versions of the truth would have been eradicated.

Matt B.

Are you still reading this thread? Is everything OK?
Haven’t heard from you. Was it something I said?

Great Article and it makes sense.  Too bad that at the bottom of this Great Article is a music Video by pedophile Michael Jackson… Good Grief Folks!  Isn’t there any sense of irony here?

While our immediate goals and means may be diametrically opposed, and while our very definition of good, and great, and moral may not only be in conflict, but supported by mutually exclusive views of how and why, I think this is an awesome article. Both the left and the right badly need to think about this.

This nation is badly in need of a thorough re-examination of this idea(l).

Not only is politics the trailing edge of change, and the only effective means of revolution between one’s own ears, but nothing good will come of change until the vast majority’s instinct that putting knives in each others’ backs is wrong is respected.

Whether one believes morals are hard wired into social mammals by evolution, or given by a just God, or both, whether one sees glory and grace only in God, or as a part evolving towards/with the Allness, whether one respects rigid structures and strictures, or the essential nature of being(s), we all must learn the practical lesson of helping oneself, being responsible for our actions and to our beliefs, and doing what is right regardless of expectations.

I would like to wish you the best of luck, but that would be against what I see as the greater good, much less my own best interests.

I can, however, offer thanks and kudos, for a very important point very well made.

While our immediate goals and means may be diametrically opposed, and while our very definition of good, great, and moral, may not only be in conflict, but supported by mutually exclusive views of how and why, I think this is an awesome article. Both the left and the right, the atheist and the blindly faithful, badly need to think about this. This nation is badly in need of a thorough re-examination of this idea(l). Not only is politics the trailing edge of change, and the only effective means of revolution between one’s own ears, but nothing good will come of change until the vast majority’s instinct that putting knives in each others’ backs is wrong is respected. Whether one believes morals are hard wired into social mammals by evolution, or given by a just God, or both, whether one sees glory and grace only in God, or as a part evolving towards/with the Allness, whether one respects rigid structures and strictures, or the essential nature of being(s), we all must learn the practical lesson of helping oneself, being responsible for our own actions and to our beliefs, and doing what is right regardless of expectations. I would like to wish you the best of luck, but that would be against what I see as the greater good and grace, much less my own best interests. I do, however, offer much thanks and kudos, for a very important and universal point very well made.