Does art need not only to reach out for an objective standard, but is it also crucial to recognize the culture.  Is there a lack or excess of sensory stimulation?  For art and beauty to move people towards Christ, it should be something positive to the life of the people.  My father was telling me yesterday how he remembers growing up.  How the same two nails, one on each side of the barn still remain where they would hang their lanterns in the morning or evening during milking; and then the change that came with the introduction of the light bulb onto their farm.  Now in our modern culture we have constant sensory stimulation even late into the night.  To get away people go to a spa, somewhere quiet and peaceful.  The challenge is what kind of Christian message comes through peaceful movements and not evoke but calms emotions.  Can art really be influence in today’s modern culture?

I agree, to a certain extent, with what father Barron is saying.  But I also think that people can be in doctrine agent to accept something that isn’t true as being beautiful and mysterious. I think that is what religion does.

I’m sorry. Let me try that again and check what I have dictated.

I agree, to a certain extent, with what Father Barron is saying.  But I also think that people can be indoctrinated to accept something that isn’t true as being beautiful and mysterious. I think that is what religion does.

Bill, I think you have to get specific not only about which religion, but which parts.

I would say that the Roman Catholic ceremonies and artwork moves is because we have been indoctrinated to a sense of sacredness that does not really exist. It is all nostalgia and sentimentality that moves us.

Hey Bill.  The denial of Beauty is what modern culture has indoctrinated in you.  Not the other way around.  Beauty in art and music easily overwhelms me.  No one taught me how to feel.

Tim, I understand what you are saying about beauty. And yes, there is beauty that we can appreciate without indoctrination. The beauty that I am talking about is such that it arouses our senses giving us an emotion that appears to be a spiritual experience. The Catholic Church hijacks that spiritual experience and uses it for its own purposes. Then we stop to see beauty in rituals, icons, statues, etc.  I guess what I am really trying to say is that people should not be fooled into equating beauty with the greatness of God, and then making that God the Christian God. If I had to come up with a concept of the true definition of God, I would call it the intelligent designer of the universe. But not a person, not a Trinity, not a father, not the God of the Bible and not a God of the Catholic Church.

Make that “Then we START to see beauty in rituals, icons, statues, etc.”

I don’t think it’s indoctrination to think every child including myself wanted to do well, know something about natural order of the world, and also know corruption.  Don’t you feel it deep down in your soul?  There is certainly an objective nature to our world.  It seems we should be able to freely discuss beauty as an objective standard.

Tim,

You must have missed or misread my last comment. Natural beauty is wonderful. I’m talking specifically about religious symbols, art, music, etc. that inspire people to worship a god of a specific religion.  In the Middle Ages all beauty was hijacked by the Catholic Church and was centered on its god, the creator of all things and the inspiration of the Holy Spirit. We know so much more about the universe and the world around us now so that beauty is less of a religious object of our affection.