I Want to Live Too - Unborn Children Awareness Center

Help us empower women and raise awareness, from an unborn child’s viewpoint. “You don’t have to keep me, just let me live.”

Go to www.noctoday.org and help us raise awareness and advocate for the rights of unborn babies today!

“I Want to Live Too” - Unborn Children Awareness Center

Help us empower women and raise awareness, from an unborn child’s viewpoint. “You don’t have to keep me, just let me live.”

Go to www.noctoday.org and help us raise awareness and advocate for the rights of unborn babies today!

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It’s by far Not the wickedest I’ve seen.
When Our Lord is the goat, then we will cry.
Get over it. There is Much more to come.
Besides, can anybody remember the “Know Nothings”.
These are merely reruns.

This isn’t about medicine or some fraction of percent to fund abortion.  Abortion is a huge industry that costs enormous amounts of money to fund and the decline to our society is greater than any war ever was.  But you can keep your pie eyed belief that you are holier than thou with your “greater good” theories and distorted view of social justice.  You have completely missed the points of solidarity and subsidiarity when speaking of social justice.  So no, you and Judy do not have a good perspective on things at all.  Spending is out of control.  And yes, when my money is taken in excessive amounts from me, it is stealing on a grand scale.  Just because it is done through a government and not some thug on the street does not mean it is not so.  God judges by His own rules, not that of the government.  And the last time I checked the government is not above God.  So yes it is stealing by God’s view, especially when it funds things that are fundamentally against God and His laws.  If socialists spent even a quarter of the money they spend on elections trying to take, keep, & maintain power over others, to actually care for the poor and underprivileged that they dehumanize and use like tools for obtainment of said power, you might actually see a decline in poverty.  But atlas that is not what it’s about for people like that.  They just want to control other people because they think people are commodities and the fruits of their labor as thus are free for the stealing, er um I mean according to you “taking”.

Stealing? Nobody is crazy about paying taxes, but are we ready to organize and pay for all of the public services and infrastructure that are funded by taxes? What chaos there would be then. People in some parts of the country with no mandated street lights can’t even agree to chip in for that but prefer to either put up post lights or let people take their chances. Immensely more goes to the military than into anything else. Are you against that, too? A society as technologically complex as ours today really cannot survive with everybody doing their own thing. That may have worked for the Pilgrim Fathers and even for the two hundred years following, but not now anymore. Wait! I believe that this system is still in place in places like Afghanistan, Yemen, Somalia, Sudan…
As to the abortions supposedly funded by universal health care: - I’m not sure that they would be, although this has been the propaganda -  but even so, they represent a tiny percentage of all of the procedures that would be covered, so apparently the many positive aspects should be scrapped because of one small part of the whole. Do you take medication of any kind? Even aspirin? There are always undesirable side effects, but you take the medication because the positive effects outweigh the negative.
Judy has the right perpective on things.

Expat, how Christain is it to steal?  I don’t give my taxes freely.  They are taken from me against my will to pay for proceedures I find evil (ie. abortion).

I think that Judy has made some excellent points and seems to me to have touched the crux of the issue. Lots of pro-lifers seem to forget about the already-born in their fixation on the unborn and act as if abrtion were the absolutely worst of all sins. In respect of universal health care, doesn’t Misterbee realize that it’s often precisely the hardworking lower-middle-class family that gets hit hardest if business is bad or jobs are lost. A serious illness can cause the loss of house and home if there isn’t some kind of social safety net. America spends about three times as much per capita on healthcare than does Germany (where I live) but is much less effective. Of course there will always be a few who abuse the system, but that isn’t the majority. Who winds up paying the emergency-room bills for all the uninsured? I’m sure that nobody is in favor of letting them die in the streets, and yet the ER scenario is the most expensive way of dealing with the problem. I get the impression that people just don’t consider “freeloaders” to be deserving of medical attention if they can’t pay for it themselves. How Christian is that?

Judy-

“I think many more of the Republican ads were so distasteful painting Dems as evil for working on social justice issues like universal health care.”

I think you need to be careful with such statements as “...many more of the Republican ads were so distasteful…”.  And when you begin to speak of “social justice”, you really need to define what it is you mean.  Universal health care is a grand concept, but as Margaret Thatcher once remarked about Utopian Socialist concepts, Socialism works well until you run out of other people’s money. 

If you’re not old enough to recall medicine in the pre-Medicare days, perhaps you should look into it.  Medicare was originally sold to the American public as a “catastrophic” insurance program.  but like all government programs, once in place, they tend to grow exponentially.  In 1965, we were told that Medicare ($3 billion in 1965) would grow to cost the tax-payers (you and me) $12 billion by 1990.  Actual expenditures on Medicare in 1990?  $107 billion, and that’s adjusted for inflation.  Semantics was part of the problem, when we as a culture, stopped referring to “welfare” and began instead to refer to “entitlements”.  After all, EVERYONE IS ENTITLED to -fill in the blank-and we’ll just tax “the rich” to pay for what ever it is that some one wants.  (As humorist Dave Barry once wrote, politicians consider you “rich” if you own more than one shoe.)  I’m not rich, but I curtailed business plans due to the impending confiscation of what I work for; profits.  Not to brag, but I am not stingy about supporting charities, and I will happily match my giving records against anyones.  You write of “social justice”.  Is it “just” that I work to support people who will not work?  Note, please, I said “will not”, not can not.  Starting a business requires risking one’s OWN resources, not someone else’s.  It also requires an enormous amount of labor.  Talk to small business owners.  You’ll learn that 16-18 hour days and 6-7 day weeks are the norm, not the exception.  When they (or I) are willing to put that much effort into attempting to be successful,  what percentage of my earnings should be confiscated by bureaucrats who produce nothing to be re-distributed to people who are otherwise ABLE to produce, but choose not to?  Sadly, “social justice” is nothing more than a mask for Socialism, a system that has failed, and failed miserably everywhere it’s been tried.  When you are willing to contribute ALL of you resources, income, personal property, labor, EVERYTHING, to supporting the poor, then talk to me.  The Church, and not just the Roman Church needs to become more interested in carrying out the commands of Christ.  As a(n unrepentant) Protestant, I will never again join, attend, or set foot in a congregation that spends more on salaries, or building funds, or anything other than carrying the charitable works Christ commanded.  The Church of Rome can proudly point out the fact that they were the driving force behind starting hospitals, orphanages, and many other institutions to care for the poor.  But your “social justice” attempts to elevate the commands given to you and me, and instead demands that Caesar command others to do what you and I have been called to do.  That not justice, that’s tyranny.

I agree with those who wrote that this was NOT the worst ad and it was not directed at a Catholic priest but a Protestant but even at that…I think many more of the Republican ads were so distasteful painting Dems as evil for working on social justice issues like universal health care.
It all makes me cringe. I hate the fact that candidates can run on a terrible voting record for the poor but are endorsed by many in the church because they say they are against abortion.  If they really wanted to do something about abortion rights they just had 8 years to change things but it seems to me they never really do ANYTHING about it when they are in office…it only gets used as an election issue.
I am pro-life but I cannot stand the hypocrisy of those who say they want to save unborn babies but they endorse policies that do not support babies and children who are here and alive like universal health care for all.

I don’t even see the point of the article or the comments.  In what way is this anti-Catholic?

Expat, you bring up some interesting points, and I surely agree that the wars have yet to make anyone safer than before. Also, I don’t approve of all the military actions taken by the U.S.A. (I mention somewhere above that I’m Irish, not American). But I still think that, overall, the invasions were the right thing to do. Not only are we attempting to rid the world of some really rotten buckoes, but this will hopefully create fledgling democracies in some of these countries.
  As to the situation regarding abortion that you bring up, my opinion hasn’t changed. I still can’t stomach killing the child—though I admit that my feelings on this may not be as reliable as yours, as I don’t have any children yet, or a wife (I haven’t found that special girl).
  And, lastly, I still don’t fully understand the Holy Father’s stance on voting, or all the loopholes. Maybe if I got a degree in logic. . . ?

the Holy Father has forgotten more about theology and logic than any of us here will ever know, but just to clarify: Unlike FORMAL cooperation, in cases of MATERIAL cooperation the cooperators do not intend to further the wrongdoing of other agents. Instead, they act for legitimate ends, foreseeing but not intending that their action will facilitate that wrongdoing. Second, while FORMAL cooperation is ALWAYS prohibited, the permissibility of MATERIAL cooperation is determined on a case-by-case basis and depends upon a variety of factors. How grave is the wrongful act in question? DOES THE ACT OF THE COOPERATOR OVERLAP PHYSICALLY WITH THE ACT OF THE WRONGDOER? If not, how much DISTANCEis there between the two acts in terms of TIME, SPACE, AND CAUSAL CONNECTION? Will the wrongful act take place anyway, regardless of whether the cooperator goes forward with the act of material cooperation? Is the cooperation an isolated act or an ongoing pattern of involvement?

And again - in all respect for differing opinions - have the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan made us safer from terrorists? I don’t think so; as a matter of fact, the United States being seen as an aggressor fuels terrorist recruitment. which is NOT to say that if western troops were immediately withdrawn or if Israel gave in to all the Palestinians’ demands, terrorism would cease; no; it’s western freedoms that the radicals hate. Look what’s been happening in parts of Europe.

But we’re getting off the topic here. Remember when women died in childbirth because it was more important to save the baby? I know - the death of the mother was not intended; it was “collateral damage”. And yes, I fully understand that bringing about the death of an infant being born is a horrendous thing. (I have four children). But if a mother already had a family of small children left to grow up in often dire circumstances, might it not at least have been worth considering that saving the mother could take priority?
I don’t think too many people today would say that the life of the mother should be forfeited. Things are not always as simple or black-and-white as we might wish.

Remember that the Priest and Levite in the parable of the Good Samaritan were acting in accordance with the letter of the law, but the despised “heretical” Samaritan was the true “neighbor” of the injured man and acted in charity, in the spirit of the law.

The greater good? With all respect, who determines that? The invasion of Iraq was a huge mistake, undertaken on the basis of false reports about WMDs. It isn’t the job of the United States to get rid of people they don’t like, and while Saddam Hussein was not a nice guy and his sons were possibly even worse, there was no reason for the US to invade on that basis. It would have made more sense if we hadn’t supported so many such as Saddam, Bin Laden and their ilk, who later came to haunt us. Had we concentrated on Afghanistan after 9/11, we might have been in a better position than the one we are in now, with a much smaller loss of life and treasure.
It amazes me that so many people who are adamantly against things like universal health have no problem with funding the military.

Well, as we can see from the election rsults,this had a reverse effect.  No honset thinking mind would go for such a lowdown decpiction of Catholicism even from Evangelical Protestantism.

Expat, I agree that Pope Benedict XVI’s stance on voting doesn’t entirely, um, make sense. . . However, the Iraq and Afghanistan wars are a bit different in their moral implications than abortion. The wars currently being fought are in the pursuit of a greater good—the end of senseless terrorism and violence. Unfortunately, it’s an impossibility to conduct a war without ‘collateral damage’, however we try to avoid it.
  Abortion, on the other hand, is the pointless murder of innocents. The unborn children that we are killing are being deprived of life for no particular reason, except perhaps that their parents don’t wish to be bothered with the complications of a child.

How about the death penalty? The wars in Iraq and Afghanistan? Innocent people die there, too, but that’s collateral damage, isn’t it?
By the way, Pope Benedict XVI, when he was still Cardinal Ratzinger, wrote that a good Catholic cannot vote for a candidate because he or she is pro-choice. In traditional terms, such a vote would constitute formal cooperation with evil. Because it is a type of intentional wrongdoing, it is always morally impermissible. But what about voting for pro-choice candidates despite their stand on the life issues? According to Ratzinger, “when a Catholic does not share a candidate’s stand in favor of abortion and/or euthanasia, but votes for that candidate for other reasons, it is considered remote material cooperation, which can be permitted in the presence of proportionate reasons.”

This message has a considerably broader audience than just the Catholic Church or even all of Christianity. The existing philosophy of the political left is class warfare against the Constitutionally guaranteed inherent rights of the individual to Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness. Inherent Rights are the Rights conferred on individuals solely because they are born in the image of God. Life refers to the genetically unique human that was created by God when the fathers sperm, bearing one-half of the gene material is combined with the mothers genetic material at the time of fertilization to form all of the genetic material necessary to begin the life process of the new individual that undergoes growth and development and life process that possesses no definable metric until death. This is why termination of that genetically unique individual by whatever means, natural or unnatural is defined as killing a creation of God. Thus the degradation of any human individual to the rank of equal to any other genetically unique individual is a corruption of Faith in God and an essential of atheism.  Atheism is essential to the left political philosophy and is the antithesis of belief that God is the Creator. Just as left politic is a creation of mankind, secular ethic is a creation of mankind as is the concept of class politcs. Each of God’s Children is unique, a modifier that cannot be modified. God also is unique, non-human,the only universal truth and the creator. Therefore all non-God possesses imperfection but has also inherent God created rights.

Don’t consign me to hell or excommunicate me just yet. I merely wrote that the idea of abortion being the greatest of all sins and therefore a reason to deny healthcare to millions of children and adults who are already born seems a bit extreme to me.We are responsible to God for our own sins and our own conscience and have no right to judge others or make decisions for them. Providing a decent social safety net for those in need is the moral responsibility of a civilized society and I am neither ashamed that I think that way nor do I consider myself less of a Catholic because of my views.

Hmm.. abortion not a sin or perhaps a minor one? Wow.. If we go against the Catholic Church teaching on abortion and these other social issues in favor of pridefully following politics, we likely checked out of God’s faith a long ago; even if we’re still occassionally sitting in the pews on Sunday. Our redemption is being stolen by the very devil we don’t even believe in..

OOPS! Spelling mistake! Of course I meant “emanating”.

And kudos to Hugh Vincelette for his very sensible comment. We should engage in civil discourse and not immediately demonize those whose opinions differ from ours. That is true Christian charity.

I can’t believe the sheer hatred enanating from some of these comments. I’m a former New Yorker who attended Catholic schools and college during their heyday in the 1960s and have been living in Europe for most of my adult life. I agree with those posters who write that the issue of abortion apparently outweighs all of the other aspects that relate to loving and helping your neighbor: everything seems to turn on that one issue. I myself am not “pro-abortion” but I don’t think that it is the worst of all possible sins; does anyone seriously think so? For many centuries herbal abortifacients were used and the Church, while disapproving, did not view this as one of the worst sins. This view gained ground the 15th century, when contraception was equated with abortion (in “The Hammer of Witches”, for example) because people knew nothing of the female ovum and believed that the entire human being was present in the sperm, Abortion is only a small part of the spectrum. The USA spends more money per capita on health care than any other country, with much less efficiency. A few reasons may be the astronomical fees that doctors get as well as the equally astronomical sums they have to pay for malpractice insurance because so many people are out for what they can get with the help of litigators.
The US has separation of church and state, and the clergy - of whatever religion - has no right to meddle in politics and tell people how to vote in the blatant way I see happening. Let those without sin cast the first stone and get a sense of proportion here. As I wrote before, I am not pro-abortion and am absolutely opposed to any kind of late-term or partial-birth method, which I believe must be forbidden, but I don’t have the right to pass judgment on others. People have to work things out with their own consciences. The works of mercy mentioned by other posters encompass more than just this one point.
That said, I agree that the advertisement is in very bad taste and would generate a huge outcry if it were directed against most other religions. But Catholic-bashing seems to be in vogue.
Re the Inquisition: the Spanish Inquisition was probably the most orderly of the lot; it’s just gotten a lot of bad propaganda. The worst excesses of witch- and heretic-hunting were committed not by the Spanish or official Roman Inquisition but by all the little local “independent” ones in, for example, German principalities both Catholic and Protestant as well as in Protestant Britain and Puritan New England, because they were not bound by the very strict rules regulating the official version. A few posters have very correctly written that the inquisitorial process was the forerunner of our modern judicial system. But, alas, so many today get their information from the popular media!
And as to Galileo: He had basically five-star accomodation, and the Catholic Church had long permitted both the Ptolemaean and the Copernican systems to be taught at Catholic universities as theories. There was no way of proving them at that time, but Galileo had to be stubborn. (He also claimed to have invented a telescope that a certain Zacharias Janssen from Middelburg in the Netherlands had invented six years earlier - not a very noble thing to do! And up until that point, he had taught the exact opposite of his later Copernican theory).  Galileo was allowed to teach at Catholic universities all over Italy, whereas Johannes Kepler, a Protestant, had no chance of teaching the Copernican system at any Protestant university, but had to go to the Catholic institions in Linz and Graz.

I grew up Catholic & was an altar boy for many years, back in the days of the Latin Mass.I have only fond memories of church life. I think it is sad that so many in the church view any disagreement or an opposing point of view, as immediately anti-Catholic.The truth is; there are people on both sides of any argument that are uninformed & .....stupid. Something I do find alarming, is the practice of clergy at all levels essentially forbidding any Catholic from voting Democrat. Granted, no party is mentioned by name, perhaps, nor is any candidate, but one would have to be two coupons short of a blender, not to interpret the edicts as being…..Vote Republican.

This kind of dishonest and libelous garbage is nothing new, as so many posters here have said. Anti-Catholicicism is the last form of vile prejudice, bias and slander that is still fully acceptable in the “polite” company of the so-called “elites” and “intelligentsia” in our country (and, for that matter, in other parts of the world as well). Make no mistake; this is all part of a deliberate attempt to marginalize and silence the Church. It has been going on for centuries, and nobody thus far has been able to accomplish the goal! In today’s world, it’s people like George Soros, the left-wing billionaire Marxist/socialist, among many others, who are at the forefront of things like this. The Democrat party is populated and supported by people of this ilk. It’s only the faithfulness of Catholics who really care about the Church that will continue to make the difference in this battle.

I do not live in MN, so I do not know the political situation is there.  But I do know what popular culture incorporates and I think we should fight back to defend the Church that Christ left to us.  The reality is that the image of a man in a Roman collar(a disembodied and faceless insult in this case) lead to images of the Catholic priesthood, which is almost always demonized in our society (in contrast to nuns, who are portrayed as jokes). The Church is the target in popular culture because of its unyielding moral stand and the longstanding, once-dormant suspicion of Rome. (This is not the case for mainline Protestants, although it is for the conservative denominations, especially evangelicals—but they do not have the same ready visual identity). If you don’t believe this, do a content analysis of the New York Times in relationship to this issue.  Catholicism, and particularly priests, are almost always stereotyped—portrayed as corrupt, authoritarian and immoral—playing on the sexual abuse scandal. Would we see this with a Muslim image, any representative of another religion?  No. This is an easy, facile communication that plays on ignorance.  The thing that angers me the most is that it slanders all the good priests—few in number, overworked—I know as well as the life of the Church I see at Mass—the good people who try to do their best and live better lives in the face of all the difficulties of life. I’m utterly sick of this kind of thing. It is unfortunate, because I come from a Democratic family and I believe in justice for the poor and voiceless—which I see in the Catholic community.  But I’m sick of their relativism and I’m really sick of their anti Catholicism. I’m sick of “tolerance” being extended to everyone except Catholics.

Whoever did this must be a complete moron.  The Catholic Church is renowned all over the world for her extreme generosity in caring for the poor, disadvantaged and suffering souls of vast numbers of people who have nowhere else to turn for help.

There have been several entrys supporting the advertised intent of multiple politicians to provide healthcare for the sick, financial aid for the poor, food for the hungry and whatever for the for the whoevers. As with most concepts there can be and are a multiplicity of supporting arguements. It is at this point and in this venue that the primacy of our God, His Commandments and His representatives on earth that we should look for guidance. It is critical to our Faith that we look to the First Commandment to realize that these ought to be revealed as temptations of the Devil with Evil intent. There is ONE GOD and the false gods of Washington are not them. I am far from being a student of thology, but I recall from my pre-confirmation days that Jesus was tempted with earthly goods and set the example for our current quandry by refusing to be succorded into swapping Faith and God’s Law for a pile of dirt and a myriad of sinners.

Where does it say that’s a Catholic priest?  It looks like just a random clergyman to me.

Oh.. right.. got it. You mean like Juan Williams? Why do we not just look away? Because it’s a double standard.

it’s not hate speech, it’s the “freedom of speech”. If you don’t like it, then look away instead of throwing a tantrum over something you can’t change.

Whatever differences we may have, I could never imagine the Catholic Church ignoring the poor. You, as Catholics, have done a remarkable job of working to provide for the poor.

That is the point of the ad.  The Catholic Church, the Lutheran Synod and most Christian clergy have done a remarkable job working to provide for the poor. Rev. Hall, the Republican Senate candidate is making a big deal that he is a clergyman.  Well, he is nothing like the clergy we are used to in the Catholic and most Protestant churches.  Unlike Rev. Hall, they don’t ignore the poor. 

If you think a clergyman would be a good senator because of his sensitivity to the poor, don’t vote for Rev. Hall because he is a very atypical clergyman and in conflict with the views of the Catholic Church.

If you really think this brochure is not about why people should not vote for Rev. Hall, but is an attack on the Catholic Church, please send a signed, notorized statement to the DFL stating this.  If this brochure is not about reasons to vote against Rev. Hall, then the DFL has not spent its allocation in that senate race and then then spend more money to defeat Rev. Hall.

Please send that letter.  Rev. Hall cannot be elected.

Rocky, you are wise. As a Catholic, I seem to struggle with and forget that key point all the time. Thanks for the reminder of what truly matters.

As a non-Catholic I can say that this ad is despicable. Whatever differences we may have, I could never imagine the Catholic Church ignoring the poor. You, as Catholics, have done a remarkable job of working to provide for the poor. It saddens me to see such hate in any part of life, let alone being used for political purposes. Remember that if they hated our Lord, they will hate anyone who imitates Him!

Although not the primary reason for my leaning right this year (I’m independent), I take the Dem’s increasing anti-Catholicism into account when I vote now.  Where I live in Maine, anti Catholicism is overt among many of the D secular humanists I know. It has come up in the gubernatorial and Congressional campaigns. I think it is the reason so many Catholics are leaning away from the current administration—evidenced in the NYT poll the other day.

I wrote to these people in MN.  I think it’s time for us to stand up more.

Amen, abj, amen.

To DP’s comment “This is how I feel. I’m a Catholic. Everything I ever learned from the bible says I should be a liberal. One issue and one issue the deal breaker: Abortion. Catholics are pro-social justice, pro-help for the poor, anti-racism, anti-discrimination, anti-death penalty, pro-health care reform, etc etc you get the picture. SO the Catholic church (read bishops) is asking its followers to ignore all that so that babies aren’t aborted. I am pro-life too but since 90% of issues go liberal, so I am liberal. If you really want to be a good Catholic, become a anti-abortion democrat”

Well, this is pretty simplistic - manifesting an obvious inability to look at issues from more than one perspective.  Conservatives are pro-social justice, pro help for the poor, anti-racist (the Republicans were the original champions of civil rights in the 50s and 60), anti-discrimination, pro-life and pro-health care reform too.  The difference between the conservatives and the liberals is in the analysis of the problems and the means by which these worthy ends should be achieved.  Liberals’ values tend to be more relative – and this influences their analysis of the issues - and liberals also tend to think that government should solve all of the problems their analysis finds.  We should increase the size and power of government to make it capable of solving all of these problems.  Put liberal elites in charge who propose laws to tell everyone else what to do and tax everyone else to pay for whatever it costs.  Then they feel good about themselves because they have done that.  But many of them do not personally ever lift a finger to help the actual poor, discriminated against, sick, prisoners, etc, etc..  But a government that is big enough to solve all of these problems through laws and programs will require all of your incomes and will deprive you of virtually all of your liberties.  Conservatives, on the other hand, have more faith in people’s ability to solve problems individually and in association with other like minded individuals without government involvement – except the absolute minimum necessary to assist those goals yet which is still consonant with preserving our state and individual liberties.  The fact that so many liberals think Catholics must be liberal to be pro-good is glaring proof of their narrow thinking.

Andrew - just a few questions.  Did you go to CatholicVote and see the other two ads as well?  Also, do you believe the government can do a better job with helping the poor than the churchs can?  And do you believe the primary mission of the churches should be/ is to help the poor?

I am Catholic, but this article seems like a classic example of a writer imputing his own views of what another group thinks over what the group actually thinks.

While it may be true that this DFL group is anti-catholic and pro choice and pro gay (and I am not defending them), none of that seems to even be the point of this poster.  Rather, it seems to be making the point I have been making lately in calling some of my conservative Christian friends “CINOs” (Christian in Name Only).  Sort of a play on the RINO (Republican in Name Only) moniker that some conservatives put on others when they are not far right enough.

You would have to actually interview the person who developed the poster to verify his/her true point (did the writer do that?  It does not appear so), but on its face it seems to really just be about the Catholic church being taken over by conservative politics to the point that they vote against measures that are intended to help the poor…like welfare, etc.

This isn’t necessarily anti-church.  It’s anti-conservative church that has moved away from the main teachings of Jesus of helping the poor.  To the point of the writer of the article who defends the Christian church for its huge amounts of giving, that is true about the Church, and I love that about the Church. However, if the Church gives enough to help 10% of the poor but then works to eliminate programs that help 70% of the poor, isn’t that a net loss of help to the poor?  I want to hear a conservative Christian argue that that is what Jesus would want.  No public help for poor people because that is somehow bad money?  I doubt it. 

So, anyway, that seems to be the point of the poster to me.  If anything, it is a call for the church to go back to its roots of helping the poor, in whatever way available… 

Now, if you are arguing the efficacy or efficiency of some of the public programs, that’s an entirely different matter…and we probably have a lot of agreement on that, but I dare say we can do far more for the unfortunate among us through a comination of private and public than just through private alone.  I hope people on this site do not throw stones at me for my beliefs, but I expect it will happen.

Peace be with you all.

Vote this type of hate down next Tuesday. Look for the candidate that is serious about his or her faith. That is not afraid to say they are pro-life and Christian. Then, look at their voting record on controversial social issues in a lesser state or local position, if they held one, to confirm.

The right candidate is the one who believes that they will be held accountable for their actions not only to the people in their district, but, more importantly, to God. We don’t have that now, nor have we consistently had this for many years. It’s the only chance we have to plug the hole of this sinking ship.

Let me get this straight. We are to vote for these godless politicians year after year and then attempt to seek cover by proclaiming we support health care and all these other programs which are supposedly designed to help the poor? Which instead will escalate the destruction of the lives of society’s poorest: he unborn. Then, we should say they we don’t support abortion and all these other social issues (at least personally). And God won’t demand accountability from us for going against the teachings of the very Church that His Son created? Hmm.. no thanks.. best of luck on judgement day with that approach - it may fool the masses by not a God who knows what is truly in the heart. As a Catholic who wouldn’t necessarily describe myself as devout, I’m pretty sure that God will have zero tolerance for those who unrepentantly and interntionally promote evil under the false veil of good.

June 1953, Madison, Wisconsin. The day before my MD degree was conferred. Dean Middleton gave his farewell congratulation to our class of 70 and introduced Professor Edwin Witte, PhD, Department of Economics. Dean Middleton, senior consultant in Medicine, European Theatre of Operations, WWII presented the Professor who had written the Old Age Insurance Bill known as Social Security and had originally included at the request of FDR the first Universal Health Care Bill, modeled after Kaiser Wilhelm Law of 1880, but rejected as impossible to pass at that time by the Democrat party leaders. The purpose of Professor Witte was to introduce to us the future of government medicine that we would face. His lecture was a brief description of how government would take over control with a Universal Healthcare Plan. His message was closed with a statement I will never forget. ” Before you finish your residency training, WE WILL OWN YOU.”  Taking ownership of another human is Slavery. It is interesting that the reintroduction of Slavery to this nation should have been accomplished by the first leader of a minorty whose primary task to create citizen equality and justice is justified by a history of enslavement that identified race inequality. Supporting healthcare based on enslavement of the most qualified persons necessary to perform those critical taskes of human medical care, the physician as political slave, is totally incompatible with the Christian precepts of Faith, Hope and Charity as well as the Constitutionality identified as inherent rights of Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness that are derived directly from Dhristianity and the teachings of Jesus.

We as Catholics have turned our cheek whenever someone has made a erroneous statement against the Church, or the Pope.  It is time we take a stand and defend our religion. We are afraid to pray in public or demonstrate our belief. I pray this election will wake us all up to support pro life candidates. Stop supporting abortions and stem cell research with our tax dollars. TAKE A STAND!!!

As a life long Catholic and (independent sometimes Democrat), I am so disgusted with the anti-Catholic rhetoric in Minnesota right now. When I saw this mailing, this is the last straw.  I will now vote Repubican right down the line. It is a Roman collar for sure, (in the mailing)the Protestants is a bit wider.

The ad is very clear.  It is a pro-Christian ad.  It makes the point that while Rev. Hall, the Republican candidate for senate, makes a big deal out of the fact he is a clergyman, he is out of step with the other clergy of Minneosta including the Catholic bishops and the Lutheran Synod.  The cover idicates the scandal of a clergyman who ignores the poor, but that is just what Rev. Hall is.

Matt-  NEWS ALERT! NEWS ALERT!
they put out two more ads.  these ones can not be refuted as not being anit-catholic.  read the article on catholicvote linked below.

http://catholicvote.org/discuss/index.php?p=10875

“I’m am a social activist for the poor, as Jesus was,  and therefore support universal health care, social security and most wefare programs ( but not welfare corruption!).”

Jesus advocated state-run health care, social security and state-run welfare programs?  I must have a defective Bible.  Mine doesn’t have any of that.

Let this affair be the capstone to a two-year edifice of education for faithful Catholics. The Stupaks, the Pelosis, the DFL are really our teachers. You know what you have to do next Tuesday. Do it, and may the Lord be with you.

Mathew - I pray the Lord keep you safe from the wickedness and snares of the devil.  Guide you on your journey.  And help you to support your family as He uses your marriage to reflect to the world what His love for us looks like.  God bless you.  For this I pray in Christs name.  Amen.

Hopefully, on Nov. 2 we will begin our journey back to “One Nation Under God.”

More prove that Obama and his party are the Anti Christ and his henchmen. And prophecy says, the idiots of the earth will follow him into hell like the pied piper. America voted for satan, he’s in the white house and his followers are all following him into the firey pit!

My husband is a Lutheran Pastor. He and many other pastors in our synod wear just such a collar.

I certainly think, though, that the ad, while being aimed at an individual (Hall), would also call to mind clergy of many different denominations. The overall issue remains: Christians are villianized, no matter what denomination, and especially the clergy

Instead of fighting over who is most disparaged (Catholics, Protestants, Lutherans), we should all pray for the unborn, and for the spread of the Gospel of Jesus Christ, and work together to elect officials who support a culture of life and whose views do not directly oppose God’s Word.

I’m just not a big fan of “Universal Healthcare”, Social Security, and most welfare programs.  There are private programs with greater efficiency, more stringent accountability, and less fraudulent abuse.  I understand many people do actually NEED those services - but I’ve seen far too many people abusing the system out of pure laziness, and unwillingness to work for anything in life.  Moses did NOT rob those Israelites who brought food to provide for those who did not as they passed through the desert - if they were hungry God provided for them.  The potential Brides awaiting their Groom who brought oil for their lamps were NOT forced to provide oil for those who did not.  By forcing the government to take from others against their will is not charitable.  Robbing Peter to pay Paul is not charitable - but you can always count on Paul’s support!  Nobody in America has gone without FOOD or without SHELTER - the Catholic Church has been in the business of providing those in need with Food & Shelter for centuries!  Social Security is a government operated pyramid scheme - a ponzi scheme unlike anything Bernie Madoff could’ve imagined.  I’ve paid in my entire adult life while being told the whole time it’s almost a certainty that I’ll never see a single penny of that money ever again - and it’s true.  It’s not a matter of being a ‘holier than thou’ type - it’s a matter of social programs, and an education system indoctrinating our youth with an entitlement mentality, and allowing them to live out their lives completely without ever being held accountable for their own actions and choices in life!  Without ever taking responsibility for anything.  People simply CANNOT be against abortion, and supportive of the one political party which consistently supports abortion every chance it gets!  I wouldn’t go so far as to call such people hypocrites regarding what issues they DO support & those issues they voluntarily choose to ignore - they’re just…  Inconsistent.

THIS IS NOT THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY OF MY PARENTS.  I AM NOW AN INDEPENDENT AND I VOTE ACORDING TO THE TEACHIONG OD THE CHURCH WITH CHARITY AND LOVE.

The “Bing Crosby” era of good feelings is over.  For about a half a century, we were not despised.  We will have to choose between the Eucharist and the Church which nurtures us and public advancement.

I ‘m a life-long devout Catholic and a life-long Democrat. Im against abortion, capital punishment, gay marriage (but not against gay rights). I’m am a social activist for the poor, as Jesus was,  and therefore support universal health care, social security and most wefare programs ( but not welfare corruption!).  Not all Democrats are alike and most are not “holier-than-thou” types.  God bless President Obama and direct his work.

Jennifer O. - Excellent points!  My wife and I are a young couple, my wife in her 20’s, and I just turned 30.  Though not Catholic, we’re Missouri Synod Lutheran, a form of ‘Orthodox Catholic Light’ regarding our incredibly similar views on Christianity, Life, and Social issues!  Until just this past year, my wife and I each donated over 15% of our individual incomes to various Christian charitable organizations.  Approximately 33% of our annual take-home income.  We have a house, two reliable used cars, a dog, and are trying for our first child.  It was NOT difficult to donate that money while continuing to live our ‘less than the Joneses’ lifestyle.  However, recent increased taxes locally here in Minnesota, particularly on a Municipal level - due to these wonderful MN Democratic party politicians & liberals in power - We can no longer afford to donate even a FRACTION of the what we had in the past!Local government red-tape policies have made it more difficult to get paid for the work I’ve already done on government projects, and some clients have stopped paying altogether.  My company cut my hours & pay as a result of these increased taxes & regulations and decreased profits.  Now my wife and I can barely keep the mortgage paid now - let alone donate nearly $20,000 to Christian Charities!  I’m forced to buy food in bulk, and go hunting a lot more just to keep food on the table at a reasonable cost as well.Not only are these so-called ‘Democrats’ (Socialists) actively bashing Catholics, but they’re openly Anti-Christianity in all its sects (but more especially the conservative orthodox ones such as Catholicism, LCMS, WELS, etc.).  Are they just anti-CHURCH, or dare I say Anti-CHRIST as well?

You hate—the Mounties?

FlipDawson, you say our country is not respected in the world.  I am an American living in Canada.  Your politicians are just as corrupt as ours are however you people are such sheep that you’ve allowed socialism to overtake your country without a fight.  If my country isn’t respected because THE AMERICAN PEOPLE choose to fight what they believe is corrupt and wrong for our country then the rest of the world can go to hell.  I have never lived anywhere else in the world that I have been more disgusted by than Canada.  Every other word out of every person’s mouth is the F word, prices in Victoria, BC are outrageous, I’m taxed on everything I buy to pay for YOUR free healthcare that isn’t worth a crap, YOU do not have freedom of speech in your own country and I do in mine.  The list is endless, but you get my drift.  Someone printed something that many Americans do not like and it is our RIGHT to protest it just as it’s their right to say it.  I do not like the politics of the Obama administration or the democrats and I am not afraid to tell any of them to their face how I feel.  I cannot be penalized for speaking.  The happiest day of my life will be when I leave Canada forever.  I hate this place, it’s welfare state,  and 90% of the people in it.

maybe its meant to shock to get peoples attention no such this as bad advertising if you get what you want but i do agree this is gone too far it probley needs a explanation otherwise ignore

“Abortion is not one among many.  It is the gravest sin of all.  Without the placement of this issue at the very top of the list, all the other issues are of little or no importance what so ever.  The very reason to support all other social justice issues that you have listed hinges on the very basic right to life.”

To put it another way, if you can’t get the part about killing unborn children right, you are not going to get anything else right.

” Catholics are pro-social justice, pro-help for the poor, anti-racism, anti-discrimination, anti-death penalty, pro-health care reform, etc etc you get the picture. SO the Catholic church (read bishops) is asking its followers to ignore all that so that babies aren’t aborted.”

Truly one of the most stirring parts of the Gospel is where Jesus explains to His disciples, “Amen I say to you, whatever you lobby the Roman Senate to do for the least of my brothers, that you have lobbied the Roman Senate to do for me.”

Misterbee - point well made.  I stand corrected and better educated.  thank you.

DP – You are right to list those issues and to care about those as well.  I care about those issues myself.  The part you are missing is an understanding of how to prioritize correctly the gravity (importance) of the issues.  Abortion is not one among many.  It is the gravest sin of all.  Without the placement of this issue at the very top of the list, all the other issues are of little or no importance what so ever.  The very reason to support all other social justice issues that you have listed hinges on the very basic right to life.  The Bishops are not asking us to ignore those other issues; they are asking us to understand that all social justice issues stem from our God given right to life first.  And that without that understanding first, we are incapable of adequately addressing those other social justice issues in a way that best helps those in need.  Though I have “bashed” the democrats many times in my life, I’ve voted for them when I’ve seen a candidate that I thought was most aligned with church teaching and will continue to do so.  There is no such thing as the “Catholic” party.  And even if there were, no one would want them in power anyway for fear of the Vatican having too much undue influence over our Republic.  I can respect that for several reasons.

Incapable vs. unwilling.  Well, if you’re scraping by, trying to keep your family supplied with the most basic of needs, you may well wish to be charitable.  But due to the circumstances in which you find yourself, you’re incapable.  On the other hand, if you’re doing well financially and your next big decision is whether to purchase a new Lexus or suffer for another year driving last years Lexus, I would be inclined to think of you as unwilling.

Dave P.,
A hundred thousand thank-yous for your comments. And here I am, a Catholic since childhood, and I knew almost none of this… I think I’ll go put on my dunce cap now.

DP I also agree with many of your thoughts. Its sad that politics have turned into such hatred and childish behavior like this ad. I personally don’t believe there is a polititcal party that supports everything the Church does. I think instead of bashing the Democrats or making exceptions on HUGE teachings of our faith, we should think about how we can get our faith’s veiwpoints brought to light—all of them. Maybe we should ignore the title’s of political parties and find a way to make sure our faith’s views in total are supported—a difficult task but I see no other way. Thanks for sharing.—RS

Jennifer O.,
Amen to everything you’ve said. Why aren’t you running for office?

This is how I feel. I’m a Catholic. Everything I ever learned from the bible says I should be a liberal. One issue and one issue the deal breaker: Abortion. Catholics are pro-social justice, pro-help for the poor, anti-racism, anti-discrimination, anti-death penalty, pro-health care reform, etc etc you get the picture. SO the Catholic church (read bishops) is asking its followers to ignore all that so that babies aren’t aborted. I am pro-life too but since 90% of issues go liberal, so I am liberal. If you really want to be a good Catholic, become a anti-abortion democrat

Catholicism is based upon Aristotilian logic starting from the fundamental and complete truth that exists in totality only in God. The US Constitution recognized this truth and the inherent rights of individuals to Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness. These inherent rights clearly translate into the our individual right to exist; to exist free of restraint, coercian or fear reyond or Faith and Belief; to use our Faith in God to seek a life satisfactory to our creator. Secular ethics deny the existance of God and determines the frailities of humanities inadequacies as false rights encased in un-Constitutional secular law that is created by fallible human judicial precedent outside of Constitutionally available legislation. The progression of corruption from a Faith based Constitution and Ethic into a secular and faithless societal model has attempted to elevate human fraility into false gods as invalid as the ancient mythical powers

Okay, I’m not seeing too much of a difference.  Incapable vs. unwilling.  I would most definately agree with you though.  I was trying to be a little bit charitable towards them.  But then couldn’t resist the barb at the end.  Nice to meet you by the way.  Hope to blogg again with you again sometime.

Miz Jennifer-“You’ll see the other 50%, the orthodox Catholics who for the most part can walk the talk.”  Absolutely!  And I KNOW they’re out there, I see some of them on a regular basis.  But I disagree with you on one point, when you say they “would rather have the government garnish theirs and their neighbor’s wages to do what they themselves are incapable of doing”.  I would challenge that, and instead say, they would rather have the government garnish neighbor’s wages to do what they themselves are unwilling to do.  And sadly, that speaks for many more people than just my Catholic brothers and sisters.

Misterbee, I have an answer for you.  Because the 50% of Catholics who lean to the left would rather have the government garnish theirs and their neighbor’s wages to do what they themselves are incapable of doing, charitably giving to the less fortunate.  They just haven’t got the prudence to do it themselves and they think everyone else is just like them.  Keep hanging out here though.  You’ll see the other 50%, the orthodox Catholics who for the most part can walk the talk.  You know this thought always amuses me, if the Democrats spent even just half of the money they raise for campaigning, so they can hold on to their power, on the poor instead of on trying to get reelected, just think how much suffering for everyone they would eliminate.  Ours and the poor ;)

The Catholics wanted to play but they don’t want to accept the terms of engagement? What WERE they thinking?

DFL and their lefty Catholic apologists are getting a real run for their money with this blunder. Check out the following:

http://glenbeck.tweeteden.com/‘anti-catholic’-literature-sent-by-dems-in-minn-campaign/

http://hotair.com/archives/2010/10/27/minnesota-dems-issue-anti-catholic-mailer-in-final-week/comment-page-1/#comments

As an unrepentant protestant, I’ve never been able to understand why so many of my Roman Catholic friends continue to support the Democrat Party when the Democrats seem to be proceeding with Karl Marx’s goal of eliminating Christianity and capitalism.  When I asked one point blank, why, his response was, “Because the Democrats always look out for the little guy!”  When I asked for a specific example, his response was, “BECAUSE THEY DO!”  Exchanges like that simply leave me with a throbbing headache.  No answers, just the headache.

These imbeciles will really regret their decision to enter these campaigns on the anti-Catholic ticket.  All of us see their miserable failings as a party, and we’re none too pleased about how we’re being treated in New York and California.  Those Catholics who normally lean toward Democrat would be good allies for them, if they weren’t constantly bashing them over the head. 

Maybe when we get these Democrats out of office and out of a job, we’ll walk past them lying poor and dejected on the street corner with a picture of this ad.  ;)  (Of course, we’d feed them and show them charity. But I’ll revel in this supreme irony for a few more minutes.)

Usually, this kind of attack is much more subtle and drives home an argument that dems had already been making.  This is so over-the-top and out of nowhere that it makes me wonder if this may have been a dirty trick not placed by liberals, but placed by conservative masquerading as liberals to sway the gullible into thinking that dems are comfortable with anti-catholicism. I’m about as conservative as they come, but something about this ad really doesn’t add up.

The catholic church does more for the poor then any other group or organization. This is an attack ad on christians! Dont believe the hipe people. The catholic church does not only feed the poor but helps them find jobs and create a skill to keep a job. Liberals just enslave the poor to keep their seats. The liberal party is true evil.

I’d view this postcard as simply anti-Christian, not necessarily anti-Catholic—unless there is a Catholic candidate they’re opposing.  I’m not following all of the races in Minnesota, so I don’t know.  But, there are many protestant ministers who wear shirts and collars like that, too. What the DFLers in Minnesota may not know is that a study done several years ago, covering a 10-year period, showed that Christian Conservatives are the most generous demographic of all, in monetary donations, volunteering and even to donate blood! Sincere caring about the poor has little to do with perpetual handouts.  We believe in a “leg up” not handouts which ensure dependency on the government for generations.

I am appalled by this ad. Whether it’s a Catholic priest or a Lutheran minister, I’m appalled. I don’t care which flavor of Christianity - it’s a baseless attack. The church, and particularly the Catholic church, has done more to help the poor than any other entity. I’m not a Catholic, I’m a Protestant (Presbyterian) and there are of course some doctrinal differences between us, but anyone who cares about the TRUTH and FACTS will have to admit that Catholic ministries have done tons to feed the poor, heal the sick and comfort those who are heartbroken. One of the people I admired the most was Mother Theresa, for her work with the poor. Even though I am not a Catholic, I donated money to the Sisters in India. My mother, who is not even a Christian, used to regularly listen to Mother Angelica because of her wisdom.

Of course, there are things to criticize about the Catholic church, just like there are things to criticize about Islam or Calivinists or Buddhists, etc. But this ad was over the top and just totally inaccurate.

As far as the idea that the Republicans will defund social security, etc. - well, Dems have been using those scare tactics for years. But it was under a Republican president, Bush, that we saw the burgeoning of support for faith-based programs. The reality is that private, faith-based programs can do much more to help people than government programs, because faith-based programs touch peoples’ souls as well as their bodies, and that is where the healing begins. The poor are more likely to rise out of poverty through the help of a faith-based charity where they know someone cares about them than through a government check.

That doesn’t mean we should eliminate social safety nets, but the emphasis should be on expanding faith based initiatives and programs.

One area that the Republicans are on the side of Catholics is school - Catholic schools do a better job educating students than government schools for far less money. Why shouldn’t parents be given tax credits or vouchers or something so that they can send their children to schools that work for them? Republicans are for school choice which would benefit many people who want to send their children to Catholic school but cannot afford it. Republicans are also pro-life, believe in the traditional definition of marriage and support freedom of conscience for people of all religion.

Matt, I think you are exactly right.  These people who came up with this are cunningly smart and they get paid a ton of money to be like that.  The evidence is well evident in the back and forth of the comments posted here.  The ad was exceedingly clever in the sense that those who they intended to offend are offended, and those others who don’t want to see it as offensive have a way of excusing it, and those who don’t like Catholics will feel vindicated the DFL put out a under the table jab at Catholics.  They knew exactly what they were doing.  After all Catholics put them in power, they’re not going to bite the hand that uplifts them in an obvious manner that outs their intensions.  But they can’t let the Church just get away with opposing them on certain hot political topics either.  So they’ll do it on the sly, because that little incident in St. Cloud with our Archbishop made them realize he’s not necessarily in the bag for them.  (Apb. Flynn did a better job of disguising his position.)  I think these clever people killed two birds with one stone.  Almost demonic like how skillfully they came up with this plan.

So what I’m hearing in defense of the DFL is that the DFL simply didn’t know the difference between Protestant and Catholic? The Dems have guys paid millions of dollars to create campaign messages and we’re supposed to believe that the image of a Catholic priest was just a big accident, especially when in another mailer they used the images of a Catholic altar with big banners saying “Vote.”

I am not surprised at how that political group would lash out at Catholics, especially when they lose more and more of us every day as the refuse to budge on their anti-life/pro-abortion stance as part of their platform.  This is just an aside, but it does bug me when I see it and correct it wherever I can.  It’s the “DEMOCRAT” party, not the Democratic.  That’s a play on words media outlets use to try to tie that party with democracy.

One minute researching this postcard suggest it is part of a campaign against a man named Dan Hall, who is not Catholic and who the DFL accuses of failing to act in a Christian manner. He is apparently associated with the Assemblies of God. 

If this is truly so, it’s just a rather nasty ad which uses the wrong kind of outfit.  Catholics are an important group for the Minnesota DFL: it simply wouldn’t make sense to go after them.

The ad campaign slams Hall for NOT following the stances of the Catholic and ELCA Churches on helping the poor.

Hall has let all this spin on and on because, cynically, he knows it will help him win.  I wish he were taking the opportunity to demand more help for the poor.

So how to vote?  How about we pray and try to decide what we feel is best for the needy and the broken?  Can we please stop name calling?  And please do your homework before going bananas. Good grief.

Let’s be honest, the Democrat party supports, partial birth abortion. Obama voted against every single restriction on the, “baby alive act,” an act that seeks to save babies of botched abortions rather then leaving them in broom closets to die. Obama was adamant against saving them. He is a triple A rating with Planned Parenthood. Most people will assume this ad is talking about Catholics and those who ran the ad know it.

There is no way someone can be a Catholic in good standing and vote Democrat. Jesus is clear in that you either for Him or against Him. If you vote for a politician who supports abortion as 99 percent of Democrats do then one has no right to call themselves a Catholic. At the least should not be participating in the sacrament of communion. Sorry facts are facts and the truth hurts.

It utterly amazes me that there are so many Catholics who are Democrat and liberal. Even among some Catholics who claim to be more conservative one frequently hears that the Catholic Church’s stance on the death penalty is that they are firmly against it. This is totally bogus and untrue and I can’t imagine why a true Catholic would vote Democratic. I just don’t get it. When I first became Catholic I knew a deacon who was very liberal and a Democrat who angrily asked me why I became Catholic, and I told him because of the eucharist. He just looked at me with a look of disgust and was angry because I told him that I voted for Bush in 2004. I do think that in the last two years many Catholics have changed for the better. Thank God.

Gee, I hope this won’t endanger the incestuous relationship the American bishops have with the Democrat party that gave us President Infanticide.

When I was growing up, the Democratic Party WAS the party of the Catholics. We even had a President who was a Catholic Democrat. It is so sad that they have turned their attention away from the Catholics to “serve” the liberal fringe element, promoting unlimited access to abortion, homosexual marriage, and other immoral practices. I’m just a farmboy who grew up Baptist and a Democrat, but 44 years ago I found the Truth in the Catholic Church. Once I started voting, I always looked at the person and what he represented. I’m still a Democrat, but this year I found only two Democrats who I could vote for. That is discouraging. I pray everyday that our country and the Democratic Party will step away from the precipice before it’s too late. We all need to pray, everyday.

It’s not anti-Christian, its affirming mainstream Christianity. 

The point was that this Clergyman/Republican Party Official OPPOSES a Minnesota Health Care law (not the federal law) that was supported by most clergy and churches in Minnesota, including the Catholic Church, the Lutheran Synod, and the United Methodist Church.  Rev. Hall is out of step on this issue with most Minnesota Christian clergy including the Catholic Bishops of Minnesota.  The DFL is right, Rev. Hall is a cleryman who has forgotten about the poor, unlike the Minnesota Catholic bishops and the Lutheran Synod.

Sounds PRO=CATHOLIC to me.

Catholic priests aren’t usually depicted carrying around bibles…that’s more of a “vague clergy” American stereotype. Let’s not jump to conclusions here and get “played” by partisan politics.

I suspect the ad, if it is in fact intending to depict a Catholic priest (Catholics are not the only ones who wear collars), points to the fact that it APPEARS that Catholics readily side with the GOP. Some may argue that Republicans seem to ignore the poor.

I think the ad rightfully challenges clergy (and all Christians) to be careful regarding their political allegiances. Authentic Christians - Catholics especially - should refrain from being “too Republican” and “too Democrat.” Neither party lives up to the Catholic vision of society. A healthy partisan detachment is what we need to be able to challenge BOTH parties to pursue what is right and just.

Let’s stay above the fray and accomplish the good work of the Lord!

I suggest that all of you Google search the Ellison Congressman. It will bring up a reference to a Wikipedia citation that describes the history of this Catholic person brought up in the Catholic Faith, attending Catholic schools. Later he rejected his belief and Faith and has later given his allegience to Islamic tradition. If you listened to NPR on Sunday Night there was a formal debate at NYU. The statement debated was, Islam is a religion of peace. The audience vote at completionshowed that the majority voted negative - the honest debate of highly knowledgable and intelligent ‘experts’ convinced the attending audience that Islam is not a religion of peace. Mr Ellison is once again in disagreement with the people, just as his party has consistantly voted against the wishes of the majority of the voting public. He simply does not represent this district of its interest in peace and faith which tends to destroy his validity as a representative for the people and the Constitution - the law of the land, so has broked his promise to support the Constitution. In a time of war this amounts to the definition of traitor.

Tam O’Shanter:

Actually, Galileo’s ego got him into a lot of trouble, as he alienated everyone who would come to his defense (and there were many).  And his punishment was the recital of the Penitential Psalms (done in his stead by his daughter, who was a nun)and a very comfortable house arrest, wherein he continued his research and lived to be 80 years old.

I just want to know how many Roman Catholics in the 6 district will be voting for a federal candidate who belongs to a Christian sect that denounces Roman Catholicism?

Jesusfreak49 said: “When is this pointless conversation going to end? Get a grip, people.”
pq said: “...Jesusfreak49, shut up already.”

I just love these mature, intellectual debates, don’t you?

Oh, and Jesusfreak49, shut up already.

Awesome point, Katherine.

So the best light to put on this is that it’s blatantly and offensively anti-Christian, not just anti-Catholic? Seriously? And while it does mention Mr. Hall it who is a Protestant minister it also mentions Tim Pawlenty so it can’t really be said that the picture signifies Mr. Hall who has said he’s never worn the collar.

And this collar is most often associated with Catholicism. And it is the bishops who stood strongly against Obamacare which is the real point of the piece.

If you want to count numbers, there are more Protestant and Orthodox clergy in Minnesota that wear a clerical collar than Catholic.  If you want to talk popular culture, look at TV, movie or even of all things the Bart Simpson show—Protestants in clerical collar to indicate they are clergy.  Heck, go look at the Patent and Trademark Office filings to see if Catholics have an exclusive claim to the clerical collar.

Once again, we have a made up fact to push the secular conservative political agenda.

You’ve convinced me—it isn’t an anti-Catholic picture after all. The black shirt and white collar stand for all the institutional clergy (notably including but not limited to RCs) who, by their opposition to state-funded health insurance programs and a Woman’s Right to Choose, have shown that they misunderstand the Gospels and don’t care about the poor. In lumine tuo, DFL, videbimus lumen.

When is this pointles converstion going to end? Get a grip, people.

Dave P. and Matt,
Thanks a bundle for the replies, but I have a question: wasn’t it the Inquisition (not the Spanish Inquisition) that threw a huge hissy fit when Galileo discovered Jupiter’s moons?

Democrats = bigots.

No wonder they had a nice little home-grown terrorist group called the Ku Klux Klan.

I have not been able to vote Democrat for years given their pro-abortion stance and now they rally for every gay right activist. I just read a news article that stated how Obama is THE most gay-right president ever given how many homosexuals he has intentionally given positions to.

Hey, dear people!!! What do you expect from a state that elects Al Franken
to that august body of hypocrites known as the United States Senate..oh and don’t forget their election as govenor the great Jessie Ventura! This people have brain stricture!!!!!!!!!!! I don’t take offense at this ad ...I just consider the source! So should you…and move on!

I got this resopponse from a relative who lives in the area, when I asked about the postcard (he is no longer Catholic):

“I know this postcard and I know that this is postcard about a particular
preacher named Dan Hall who claims that he counsels Republicans and who is
now running for State Senate in Bloomington, and openly supports Governor
Pawlenty’s cutting health care to 30,000 of the poorest Minnesotans. When
Pawlenty was asked what those people were supposed to do now, he responded
“God’s in charge.” Dan Hall backed him up.

Leaders in the faith communities in Minnesota have largely railed against
Pawlenty and Tom Emmer, who both also back rejecting $1 billion in Federal
aid to help the poor and elderly who need health care assistance. But
Preacher Dan Hall openly stands by them.

He preaches politics from the pulpit, and he’s helping his politician
buddies while speaking out against the poor. Dan Hall’s reputation is
well-known here in Bloomington and surrounding suburbs.

So if Catholic voters are upset that there’s a picture of a Lutheran
preacher with a clerical collar (Catholics aren’t the only denomination
whose clergy wears such a collar) on the front of the postcard with a
button that says ‘Ignore the poor’, and they’re not upset about a preacher
who is supporting cuts to Minnesota’s poor and elderly, what does that say
about them?”

I find both parties against the poor.  With the wealthy seeking more wealth at the expense of the poor.Rer um Novarum speaks qauite clearly on this and many other relative subjects. Before we vote either party read at least this encyclical.      JMJ

FYI: I believe there are five Roman Catholics on the Supreme Court.  Or are you being facetious?

Phil,

My theory is that Hall used to wear a collar, but the virulent anti-Catholicism so rampant in Minnesota—and indeed, all across the United States—forced him to switch to a business suit for his own safety. But fear not. Someday Catholics will be free at last, and—who knows?—there may even come a time when one is elected president, or even appointed to the Supreme Court.

You really should have seen the other side of the piece. It is actually a criticism of a politician who attacked Catholics for their chartity work.

The ad is part of a two-piece mailing that highlights and criticizes the policy views of Dan Hall, a preacher who is the Republican candidate for the Minnesota Senate. I enclose both sides of both pieces. I understand that some Republican bloggers have taken one image from the first piece, and claimed that the mail is somehow anti-Catholic. But the text explicitly criticizes Preacher Hall for distancing himself from policy views that have been taken by the Catholic Archdiocese, by the [Evangelical] Lutheran Synod, and other leaders in Minnesota’s faith community. Dan Hall is willing to enlist God and religion in his campaign when it helps him — but in fact, his views hurt the poorest and sickest among us, and this mailing holds him accountable for those views.

Donald McFarlandCommunications DirectorMinnesota DFL Party

Hey braniacs, at least try reading the other side of the postcard.

Brian English:

You are correct.  The Spanish were very touchy about that.

pq,
the dicussion is pointles, ‘cuz it’s obvious that this isn’t anti-Catholic. I mean, duh, people. You aren’t being opressed, lol.

It’s time the Church started using some of the hate crime laws the homosexuals have installed into our judicial system.  There’s big bucks in hate crime laws.

Jesusfreak49, I think this is a well-warranted discussion, definitely not stupid.

But Hall doesn’t wear one. Surely the authors of the brochure knew that, since it’s aimed at Hall by his opponents in the DFL. They stepped in it this time and they know it.

And please, please don’t quote Wikipedia in these sacred precincts.

Phil,

Who wears Roman collars? Wikipedia says: “Collars are typically worn by seminarians and clergy members of other groups such as those of the Anglican, Presbyterian and Lutheran traditions. Also many Methodist, Apostolic, Oneness Pentecostals, Non-denominational, and others wear collars. Some Unitarian Universalist ministers—Humanists as well as Christians—wear collars. In some churches or locales however, this practice is discouraged because collars are known to be associated with Roman Catholicism.”

The back of the mailing piece calls him “Preacher Dan Hall” at least six times, and you’re still convinced it’s a Catholic priest on the front?

Let’s see, I do a campaign brochure against, say, Obama’s foreign policies and put a picture of bearded guy in a turban with an AK-47 on the front. Could that possibly be construed as anti-Muslim?

Katherine said that it was aimed at Hall, who is a minister, and Protestant ministers in Minnesota might dress like Roman Catholics. Even a cursory glance at Hall’s site shows that he dresses in a suit like other ministers. Either DFL is lumping all those mean Christians together, or they are aiming at favorite target (Catholics), or they’re haven’t got a clue one way or the other.

Matthew Archbold,

You’re in denial. Take a look at this PDF which shows both sides of the postcard.

http://www.commonwealmagazine.org/blog/wp-content/uploads/2010/10/Mail-Piece_2.pdf

Phil,

Do you notice on Dan Hall’s site the following in his bio:

Volunteer Burnsville Police and Fire Department Chaplain (15 years)
Volunteer chaplain to the Minnesota Capitol (since 2002)
YMCA Youth in Government volunteer advisor
Founder and CEO of non-profit Midwest Chaplains (current)
Minister (since 1982)
Minneapolis YMCA Director

Are you going to still claim this is anti-Catholic when you see the other side of the postcard and find out it is all about Dan Hall?

And what’s funny is that this probably IS the most anti-Catholic ad you’ll ever see . . . but it’s not anti-Catholic at all.

Nobody doubts that the piece hits Tim Pawlenty and Dan hall on the other side but there can’t be any doubt that it uses the image of a Catholic priest to deliver its messsage. The other side is about healthcare for the poor and who the Democrats blame for holding up Obamacare? The bishops. It’s that simple.

Katherine, here are pictures of Hall from his campaign site. Why aren’t there any of him in a roman collar?

http://www.votedanhall.com/photos/

Nice try.

This is kind of stupid. I mean, lay off on the “everyone hates Catholics” attitude, guys.

Anti-Catholic? No.

The piece is directed against a Protestant minister who is also the Republican candidate for a state senate seat, the Rev. Dan Hall. Had you included the rest of the flyer this would have been clear.

I’m not sure this was the best piece but I am also sure that the Catholic Church does not own the clerical collar. It is worn by the majority of Protestant clergy in Minnesota.

Why do you choose not to show the whole mailer? It takes issue with Rev. Hall for not supporting a Minnesota Health Care bill endorsed by the Catholic Church.

Rev. Hall makes a big deal that he is a clergyman in his campaign to be a Republican state senator. The DFL respond that he seems to be a clergyman that does not care for the poor the way other clergy including the Catholic Church calls for.

This is a hoot!  The Minnesota Bishops, priests, nuns, and most Catholics have been in bed with the DFL forever.  The DFL must now be run by a bunch of knuckleheads who are biting the hand that feeds them.  I’m loving it!

Has anyone bothered to call the DFL to confirm the legitimacy of the ad?  Isn’t such confirmation what the quaint people call “journalism”?

Perhaps one could ask Mr. Brian Melendez, chairman of the DFL, exactly what the postcard represents?  email: chair@dfl.org

the Minnesota Democrats Exposed blog has pictures of both the front and back of the Anti-Catholic ad. It’s targeting Dan Hall, a GOP candidate for the Minnesota Senate, who happens to be a Protestant pastor
http://www.minnesotademocratsexposed.com/2010/10/25/shameful-attack-piece-on-dan-hall/

This ad is so un-Catholic

“The Spanish Inquisition was a rogue operation, and was told repeatedly by Rome to change its ways.  Rome was ignored.”

Rome was not just ignored.  The Pope was told to mind his own business.  But the Spanish Inquisition was also not even close to being as awful as Protestant propaganda made it out to be.

This is a great discussion.

I’m an Irish lad myself, but I can completely empathise with the general dislike of catholics (I’m sure you all know what a heated topic religion is over here). Indeed, it’s an odd day that I don’t see some kind of slur against us. I do my best to keep up with American politics, and it definitely seems as though the Democrats are a little anti-catholic (they’re just like the liberal fruit-loops we’ve got in Ireland).
  Tancred… jings, but you’re right. You’ve got the essence of it there in a nutshell.

Catholic hate speech (and especially priestphobia) will never stop because the Church teaches now and for all time that homosexuality and abortion are destructive and sinful. We will be the last Church standing. We need to make that very clear to all members of the Body of Christ. To be a Catholic is to be radical revolutionaries in a dying culture.

It has amazed me how, since the election of Bill Clinton, and even more Barack Obama, the majority of Catholics have supported the Democrat Party.  When I learned Clinton had backed the horrendous bill for late term abortions, I dropped my party membership, realizing I did not belong with those whose beliefs were so different that mine.  I was even more horrified that the majority of Catholics supported Mr. Obama.  They fell right in with the very crowd that openly chose to promote politically correct agendas against some very basic Catholic beliefs.
I believe that a lot of this has happened because the continued acceptance of powerful political figures that the don’t seem to have the same requirements for the church membership as the rest of us do.  They have not condemned those who openly made laws that were contrary to their own professed faith.  No one stopped them, no one let it be publicly known they were not member in good standing, and they all continued to call themselves Catholics.  These claims should have been refuted, and they should have been excommunicated rather than letting them continue to influence the masses who admired them, and still admires them.  They let the door open, and once open, it is very difficult to stop the flow of garbage that gets carried in.

@Dave P. and Tam o’Shanter
even the extremely anti-Catholic/anti-religion book “A World Lit Only by Fire” acknowledges the justice rendered by the Inquistion as conducted by the Church as good. In fact, criminals preached heresy to get into the courts of the Inquistion. Many elements of the Inquisition made it into our judicial process-right to fair trial, discounting of confessions through torture, and several others I can’t recall off the top of my head.

@Anthony Portillo
Your comment that “many Christian clergy wear Roman collars…” hits it on the mark-Roman as in Roman Catholic. Also, Catholic priests traditionally wear black, and today the image of a black shirt with Roman collar is associated with the Catholic priesthood. Protestant pastors, with the exception of more traditional pastors, refrain from wearing black shirts and pants when they choose to wear a collar because they’ll frequently, if not all the time, be mistaken for Catholic priests.

Everyone wants to strengthen the weak, lift the wage earner, help the poor, establish sound security, keep out of trouble and help man permanently.  But the way the Democrats do this don’t work because they’re not really after helping the poor.  They use the poor to help themselves with the monies from taxes.  They use the poor to stay in power so that they can continue stealing.  They’re cheating right now to keep their positions.  People who engage in immoral and unethical behavior cannot be moral or ethical themselves.  Obama even uses God’s name to justify the slaughter of the unborn.  Just how evil can one get.  If video fails, go to http://divine-ripples.blogspot.com/2010/10/video-you-cannot-do-good-by-doing-evil.html

I’d like to see what the other side of the postcard you saw had on it.  The one I saw on minnesotademocratsexposed.com was about a candidate named Dan Hall who happens to be a minister.  Definately an attack on religion, but not necessarily Catholics.

As someone else pointed out, ministers from many other main-stream denominations wear black shirts with white collars.  I’ve seen both the partial white and total white on Lutheran and Methodist ministers.  The denomination (if any) people associate with the picture will depend on their experiences.  It’s not automatically Catholic, and since the candidate on one version was not Catholic, was probably not intended to be an attack specifically on Catholics. At any rate, it’s not as clear cut as that awful ad for the art exhibit in NY.

Not that that makes it any less offensive an attack ad.

Tam O’Shanter:

The Inquisition, as orginally implemented, was a very fair and just system for that time, and very few were handed over to the civil authorities for criminal prosecution.  The Spanish Inquisition was a rogue operation, and was told repeatedly by Rome to change its ways.  Rome was ignored.

A foul, shameless, willful, DECEPTION:
The long-standing, dedicated and faithful commitment to the poor/sick/down-trodden which the Catholic Church and/or affiliated organizations has practiced, is beyond reproach.  Even self-described Anti-Catholics are honest enough to acknowledege this.  Then again, leave it to a bunch of soul-less politicians.

Don’t forget that the democrat party, now run by secular progressives considers religion a threat to their efforts.  This election is very simple, regardless of who the candidate is.  Vote for a dem and you are supporting the secular progressive agenda to destroy our constitutional republican form of government.  Vote for a republican and support efforts to stop the dems and start the process to recover America and our traditional values.  Republicans aren’t perfect but this election cycle we need to vote out democrats.  Those of you who seem to always want to vote for the democrat, (the party of the poor and working man no longer)remember this is not the democrat party of our parents - it no longer exists.

Augustine of Hippo,
Um—I just read your comment, and agree with everything except one point: “the Holy Inquisition”?! HOLY? Are you aware that the Inquisition tortured and then murdered many perfectly good catholics, as well as thousands of poor heathens who didn’t know any better? You’re correct that all this pro-abortion stuff is bad, but the Inquisition was NOT a good thing.

This is awful, but not terribly surprising. Lately I have seen quite a few ads and political posters with this same anti-catholic slant, some much worse in the content (I recall seeing an advertisement somewhere in which a priest was engaged in a sexual act with another priest.) Anyone who cares about the church should definitely not vote for a Democratic politician, and should try to pick out the occasional good Republican.
  However, we also have another way to fight back, which I don’t think anyone else has mentioned: we can simply be good catholics. Sooner or later, if we all behave as true christians, it will become obvious to the world at large that the Democrats are simply making this sort of thing up. “Righteousness guards the one whose way is blameless, but wickedness subverts the sinner.” (Proverbs 13:6)

Liberalism is a mental disorder.  They should put it in the DSM-V.

The ONLY reason that the United States Catholic Conference of Bishops fails to strictly enforce the barring of pro-choice politicians from receiving the Eucharist, is that the Bishops know that such a move in a pluralistic and modernist society like the United States would have huge ramifications.  (1)  John Kennedy’s 1960 pledge to be independent of his Church regarding his political decisions would be in deep jeopardy and then you could just about forget electing a Catholic President or Vice-President.  (2)  Many Catholic candidates for the Senate and the House and Governorships would also be in deep trouble.  (3)  There would be a rise in anti-Catholic sentiment in the U.S., especially among the far left and pro-choice groups, but even among the mainstream.  (4)  There could be a loss in attendance at Mass and fewer contributions.

Certainly on one level we cannot blame the Bishops for failing miserably when it comes to protecting the unborn.  They do have valid concerns.  However, the Church does have within itself the power to get much tougher with the multitude of pro-choice Catholic elected officials.  Until such happens, the cries of the unborn will continue to scream out “Why, why, why?  Why will you not use every tool at your disposal to save us Holy Mother Church?  You excommunicated heretics for 800 years during the Holy Inquisition.  Can you not find the courage to refuse Communion to pro-choice politicians?”

THIS AD IS TERRIBLE. SOMETHING NEEDS TO BE DONE. DON’T BUY THE NY TIMES. OR ANY PRODUCTS THAT ADVERTISE IN IT

It just gives credence to the adage,“Don’t let facts get in the way of your ideology!”

I have 4 brothers and sister living in the Twin Cities area; it is a bastion of unhinged, unbridled liberalism: facts are irrelevant to them.

Perhaps it is time for Catholics to get off their butts and get out and vote these people out of power. The problem is that most people who say that they are Catholic do not even know what the Church teaches or stands for. We as a church must turn to God and ask Him for help. Learn all you can about the candidates and the issues. Pray before you vote and vote based on an informed conscious.  If we teach our children to love and respect the truth of the Church and if we teach our children to love their country, we could change this world in less than ten years..

I lived in Minneapolis for 15 years, and happened to be in contact with the strong Lutheran contingent there.  I was exposed to varieties of anti-Catholicism, most notably when the speakers did not know that I was Catholic (e.g., “Catholic Charities” is an oxymoron.

Linda S. commented: “Wow I come from MN and I would say 3/4 of Catholics are Catholic! I can’t believe that.”

I come from Minnesota too and I think that fraction might be a little high.  Perhaps it’s a problem of catachesis.

:-) P.S. This is only very slightly tongue in cheek.

I realize we are all on a hair trigger right now with two high profile incidents of anti Catholic monkeyshines this election cycle but I do think people are jumping the gun here.

I don’t really see this ad as Anti Catholic. In fact if we all take our politial election eve glasses off it is really quite clever

First everyone KNOWS that Catholic Priests are not anti Poor and everyone KNOWS that the Cathlic Church is not ANTI Poor. It is a use of satire to make a point.

Now you might disagree with that point. You might disagree with that point quite strongly. However that does not make it anti Catholic.

In fact I am not convinced looking at this it is not target at Lutherans also because of some disagreements between Pawlenty and his own Lutherna Bishops

Further lets face it you put a Protestant Minister in a business suit and how do you know he is Minister. In the movies and TV a religious figure is often a PRiest. That portray can be good or bad. Yet people see a Priest as a UNIVERISAL symbol of a Christian minister. Like COke the REAL THING.

I am always on the look out for anti Catholicsm but I am not sure this is an example of it at all

I am deeply trouble by this disgusting ad. These people need to be put out off business and office NOW!

“It is all Spiritual Warfare…We gotta pray often and a lot.”

Agree!

It is all Spiritual Warfare.  The Church is G*d’s representative on earth.  Those who hate G*d hate His Church.  It is no more complicated than that.  We gotta pray often and a lot.

This should infuriate every Catholic (it does me) and Christian…no one has done more for the poor in this world than Catholic and Christian charities. This is an indisputable truth. What an insult and lie! Attempts like this are all about the Church’s stand on abortion, euthansia, condoms to kids, etc. Unlimited sexual license to engage in any human behavior, no matter how morally wrong or expensive to society, or how innocent the victims who get caught in the traps of individual short sighted vision and pleasure, is the only thing the radical left is interested in protecting. This ad is another slap in the face of every poor person who has been told to stand in line for a handout, don’t try to work your way out of the welfare system, just vote for us, we’ll take care of you. The poor need a helping hand and Catholic and Christian charities have been providing that in the Name of Christ since He walked the earth.

That is a Roman Catholic collar.  I have seen that Lutherans and others have a different collar - all white, no partial black.

I had to chuckle.

So the Democrats see the Catholic Church as worthy opponents to spend money [that could have been used for the POOR] on a lie.

Anthony:

Many Christian clergy may wear Roman collars, but no one in Minnesota is going to associate this with an ELCA Lutheran pastor, Episcopalian priest, or any minister belonging to a mainstream Protestant denomination.  And the Eastern Orthodox and Missouri Synod Lutherans are not large enough in number to be targeted.

For it to ring true, the button should be pinned on an image of any and all Dems.

“Get over yourself.  It’s not “anti-Catholic”  Most people consider the Catholic irrelevant.  It is, after all, the one that only manages to get about one fourth of its members into a pew on any given Sunday.”

Well, a lot of people spend a lot of time obsessing about what that “irrelevant” Church is doing and saying.

And that leads to the question: What are you doing lurking on a site devoted to that “irrelevant” Church?

“There you go harping on the Jews again. Fortunately, we German Catholics are not single-issue voters. Herr Hitler offers hope and change: new social programs, infrastructure rebuilding with those wonderful autobahns, help for German minorities everywhere, and jobs, jobs, jobs…but you care only about one thing. Can’t you just give him a chance and reach across the aisle, so to speak? Sure, he’s wrong to blame Jews all the time but it’s outweighed by so much else he’s doing that is very beneficial to our society. You’re so narrow-minded. Thank God most of us are not.”

A conversation after Mass, Munich 1933

Some of the bishops in the US waffle at denying Communion to pro-abortion politicians.  I don’t understand why.

Persecution makes the church strong. But only the strong members survive. Catechize yourself. Pray. Remain faithful to the end. Correct, reprove, encourage. Love God and love your neighbor. Evangelize.

A lot of Christian clergy wear Roman collars.  Get over yourself.  It’s not “anti-Catholic”  Most people consider the Catholic irrelevant.  It is, after all, the one that only manages to get about one fourth of its members into a pew on any given Sunday.  Sounds like it’s Catholics who despise the Catholic Church most.

“I think this mailer is a direct response to the fact that Archbishop Nienstedt sent out DVDs advocating a marriage protection amendment for the Minnesota constitution.”

You got it.

But it could also concern Anglicans or Orthodox, don’t you guys think so?

I think you are correct when you say that the government doesn’t provide the help that social justice calls for. in fact that term has been so mis used that its meaning is far from what people today understand it to be. the government has borrowed to pay social security 15 of the last 25 months. it is not social or secure. charity needs to be taken back from the government. it has no business in the business. the church has a much better record of providing in that respect. the government is only good at killing and stealing. which it will proceed to do in any indevor it persues, weather it is charity or medical care or schooling.

Now somebody explain to me why at least 45% of Catholics will vote Democrat in a week. The number could go higher, but 45% should be a safe bet. In the 2008 presidential election, well over 50% of Catholics voted for the unabashedly pro-abortion candidate Barack Obama. The Church has clearly stated that abortion is a mortal sin and any Catholic politician who supports it (Pelosi & co.) is automatically excommunicated; voting for them, and any politician who is pro-abortion (that would be virtually the entire Democratic party, folks) should be denounced from every pulpit across the land.

Man up.

In an obvious attempt to jump on the “don’t vote dems” bandwagon here, may I humbly say “VOTE LIBERTARIAN” (even though the LP party platform is pro-choice-ish, virtually all of the Libertarians I’ve met are pro-life considering how unborn children have a right to live; see here: http://www.l4l.org/)! Virtually everything I see in the Libertarian party’s principles fits with Catholic faith, such as legalizing “victim-less crimes”, states’ rights, small federal government, removing the federal government from the school system, etc. Check them out sometime!

What does the DLF say about the ad?  I ask because here in Idaho a mass mailing purporting to be for a Republican candidate had him condemning all Catholics and Mormons to Hell.  The mailing was a fraud designed to splinter the candidate’s base and endanger the tax-exempt status of his church.

Wow… That’s just… wow….  I’m speechless.  Shame on the person who thought that ad was a good idea.  Shame on them, and those who approved it.  Sad thing is, people like that don’t feel shame.

I think this mailer is a direct response to the fact that Archbishop Nienstedt sent out DVDs advocating a marriage protection amendment for the Minnesota constitution. The boilerplate “progressive” (and, in particular, “progressive Catholic,”) response was that the quarter million dollars (or whatever) spent, which was subsidized by a targeted donation specifically for the purpose, woulda/shoulda/coulda been spent on the poor.

Excuse me I meant Dem

Wow I come from MN and I would say 3/4 of Catholics are Catholic! I can’t believe that.

” The problem as I see it is that the Republican party represents Catholics just as badly with their support of benefits for the rich at the expense of the poor.  They will weaken health care and social security, increasing the suffering of the poor and the need for non-governmental charities to make up the difference.”

This is a perfect example of the “social justice” approach that relies on the government to dispense assistance.  However, we should welcome non-governmental charities (read religious, and particularly Catholic) having a greater role in providing assistance to the poor.  That was the role of the Church for centuries, but over the last 75 years a large number of Catholics have decided the government can do it better.  They are wrong.  Assistance programs based on purely material aid, which exclude the life-changing message of Christ, are doomed to failure.

Todays’s Democrat party is the antithesis of the Catholic church.  It amazes me the any Catholics support any Democrat politicians.

We can not eliminate Democrats and their anti-Catholic behavior, but we can remove them from power.

GET OUT AND VOTE ON NOVEMBER 2.  WE CAN START FIGHTING BACK.

Dont forget that the republican party is the original establishment party. they corrupted the democratic party through the wilson administration. since then both partys have been under the control of the shadow government. Vote catholic principles. see the Voters Guide for Serious Catholics put out by Catholic Answers. no dems no republicans. just principles. the dems make this easier because they don’t have any at this point. the problem is there are plenty of dems in sheeps cloth in both parties.

Everyone wants to strengthen the weak, lift the wage earner, help the poor, establish sound security, keep out of trouble and help man permanently.  But the way the Democrats do this don’t work because they’re not really after helping others.  They use the poor to help themselves with the monies from taxes.  They use the poor to stay in power so that they can continue stealing.  They’re cheating right now to keep their positions.  People who engage in immoral and ethical behavior cannot be moral or ethical themselves.  Obama even uses God’s name to justify the slaughter of the unborn.  Cfr. video at http://divine-ripples.blogspot.com/2010/10/video-you-cannot-do-good-by-doing-evil.html

As a canadian i am amazed how anti catholic some of the americans are-I was brought up never to say a bad word about anyone.your political system is so corrupt it no wonder the rest of the world has no respect for what use to be a great christian country

The Democratic party is a collection of the vilest groups of American society - ranging from baby killers, liars, thieves, intern seducers, pot smokers but not inhalers, mentally challenged pass it to know it, beastiality practitioners hollywood types, million dollar apostate nuns and the like.

The Democratic party is dead. It is now the Socialist party. Do people remeber Lenin,(not John of the Beatles), and Stalin, and Marx? Do they remember what damage socialism has done and is doing? Do they remember that it is the basis of communisism? People seem to forget that these ideals were original packaged in much the same way that the present “Democratic” party is pushing. The communists and socialist push the pro-abortion, pro-gay, pro-culture of death agenda everywhere and the “Democrats” idealize this. The only way for social justice is throuh God’s plan. He usually uses people helping people. Governments trying to eliminate or control God fall extremely short of the ideal and create more harm than good. People have forgoten the abuse and discrimination that openly barred Catholics from clubs, certain jobs, and other things as recently as the 1950’s here in America. Catholics need to wake up and take their faith seriously. We were a united front before Vatican 2. Now people leave the church spiritually but not physically. Better to be small and faithfilled than jammed with CINO’s (Catholic in name only). Wake up!
(i.e. I am not putting down Vatican 2. It just happens to be the point in time where the mental change began.)

This is indeed a shocking attack that validates their hatred of those opposed to homosexual behavior and abortion.  The problem as I see it is that the Republican party represents Catholics just as badly with their support of benefits for the rich at the expense of the poor.  They will weaken health care and social security, increasing the suffering of the poor and the need for non-governmental charities to make up the difference.  Their deregualtion of the financial industry will make us vulnerable to another “Wall St. meltdown” that led to this recession. So in a way we are stuck between a rock and a hard place.  It seems we have to look beyond party lines at individual candidates and how they will represent us.  We also need to educate the electorate on the value of our views.

The Democratic party has long been at the forefront of anti-Catholicism. It was the party leading the revolution against all authority (God and civic) in the sixties and has used group divide and conquer, and personal moral corruption, attacking or corrupting the core institutions of our society: education, the courts (Row Vs. Wade), the news, the entertainment, science(AGW)and animal and earth worship, the family, precious life itself, and now “healthcare” or death panel care. The Democratic party could well be named the anti-subsidarity party. They seek an earthly paradise and intend to set up statist structures to control the masses. Abortion and infanticide are but two present day tools to attain that end. Unfortunately, we have many of their willing supporters inside the Catholic Church (Notre Dame was just a tiny peep show as to how bad it really is.) 53% of Catholics voted for the most pro-death president in history and we still haven’t heard from the USCCB any cries for the need of reform or renewed catechesis. Why? What ever are they waiting for? Perhaps all that money meant for the poor that was given to ACORN to help elect Obama wasn’t really an accident? The other parties are just a tad behind them as we rush away from God. And to think, they call this total moral destruction - “progress.”

I think it is a picture of a Lutheran pastor.

I, for one, am glad to see this stuff coming to the surface. The attack against the Church has been going on in this country since the beginning. But over the past 100 or so years it has not been front and center. it has been, or at least it appears to me to have been, indirectly attacked. That is to say that it has been undermined out of public notice. Morality, and the Church is the authority in this respect for sure, has been mutilated without mention of the church. Bring it on. we have not to fear. The fight is ours and won already. We just have to finish it. With some help. I love the prayer to St. Michael. Through down the gloves. lets go.

Following up on the comment I made above, I forgot to note that NY Archbishop Timothy Dolan spoke out against it.

I also just remembered the context. It was not an ad the NY Times ran (sorry for the misremembrance, but the photo is still imprinted on my brain and looked like one), but a glowing review of a so-called art exhibit. The Times’ response that it was artistic expression drew Dolan’s ire: would they dare run such a horrible photo if it were a nasty photo of Islam or Jewish subject?

I’m not sure it’s THE most anti-Catholic ad you’ll ever see.

Yesterday, Megyn Kelly on Fox News showed an ad that ran in the New York Times with a picture of the late John Cardinal O’Connor next to a condom. I’m not sure this website could or should allow the nasty, nasty word (abbreviation s.bag)that ran next to it, but it was outrageous and disgusting. A new low.

Yes, the Catholic Church’s stand against gay marriage and abortion is bringing out the worst of the Democrat party and its pathetic followers. Lord have mercy on them for that kind of blasphemy!

Does the DFL have headquarters at the Morris campus of the U of M?

I have been an active member of the St. Vincent De Paul Society for close to twenty years. I have personally participated in getting assistance to thousands over the years. The vast majority helped are non- catholic and include homosexuals, atheists, pro-choice, you name it. WE attempt to see the “face of Christ” in all people and do a heck of a job doing so. We do not pass judgement——This advertisement by the DFL is “beyond the pale”. The Democratic Party (as I knew it) is gone. These people who do this have hijacked the name “Democrat” and their actions are sanctioned by the top people in the “Democratic Party”. War is being waged on anything Christian, especially Catholic Christians.

Minnesoto elected a pro-wrestler ,that also was a lutheran,as their governor.Consider the button as a hate crime by a select group.

That ad is disgusting! DO NOT VOTE DEMOCRAT!!!!!

FYI: The Minnesota DFL isn’t an independent group that supports the Dems, it IS the Democratic Party in Minnesota. In 1944 the Minnesota Democratic Party & the Minnesota Farmer–Labor Party merged to form the DFL. This post card was sent out by their state central committee making this officially sponsored by the party.

Wow!  Despicable!  Exhibit A in the “Why I don’t vote for Dems” department.

Ignore the Demo’s!