...it has long been a given that all religions are equally superior to the Catholic Church. Now that the country has largely de-Christianized, that has expanded to the confidence that all religions are equally superior to Christianity. So, for instance, Cameron's Britain takes it for granted that Christians can not only be compelled not to wear crosses, but that if one of them becomes uppity enough to do so, all you have to do is trot out the language about mean Christians who advertise their faith as though it was superior to other beliefs. Whipped Christians, timid about appearing "judgmental", often capitulate to this sort of draconian post-Christian appeal to "judge not, lest ye be judged" and back down. However, as this video demonstrates, some Britons are beginning to get a little taste of what happens when watery post-Christian secularism, accustomed to bullying meek Christians, meets inflamed and diseased Islam:
The most telling line in that whole pathetic thing is the Muslim woman's confident declaration, "I *am* judging you."
Secularist bullies and cultured despisers--the sort of people who hector Christians to be more understanding of "Piss Christ" and who perpetually rail about Judgmental Christians--knowing that Christians are required by their faith to "judge not, lest ye be judged"--are entirely flummoxed when they encounter a religious tradition where their favorite tactic of "Bully and Scold" suddenly no longer works. Islam has, so far as I know, no tradition against frank, naked, and proud judgment against the infidel, and no sense of shame about indulging in such judgment. Watery post-Christian secularism--which knows almost nothing of the differences between Christianity and Islam and generally assumes that if you've seen one Abrahamic religion you've seen 'em all--is gobsmacked and utterly at a loss for words in the face of Radical Islam's "Yes, I'm judging you and you're going to hell, you sl*t" contempt for the infidel. The whole attempt by the woman in the video to appeal to a sense of shame or humility is a total failure, as is her appeal to an imaginary verse in the Q'uran about "respect for law" when it is not Sharia law. The whole thing only makes clear how immensely parasitic watery post-Christian secularism is on the Christian tradition. It has learned how to turn certain aspects of Christian morality into a weapon against the Christian faith. But it has absolutely no idea how to deal with a culture and religious tradition that holds those favorite shreds of the post-Christian morality in utter contempt.
The Islam on display in this video is a simple, straightforward and deeply fleshly religious tradition that offers frank and naked rewards to human pride with no hint of the checks placed on it by the preaching of Jesus concerning humility and the warnings he gives about judgmentalism. English secularism, being the idiot stepchild of a debased Anglican/Calvinist tradition, simply assumes that such open and frank pride is Not the Done Thing and so is utterly without antibodies when confronted with a culture that cares nothing at all for the cry of "judgmentalism". It will be interesting to see if post-Christian England (and America) can adapt (which will mean, ultimately, a conscious reclamation of their Christian roots for some purpose other than finding sticks to beat Christians with) or if it will simply buckle in uncomprehending confusion before this arrogant and aggressive new religious ideology.
One thing I can predict with confidence: Among the first comments to a blog entry like this will be the de rigeur act of pointing out that Christians have also been guilty of the sins of pride and judgmentalism. Manning's corollary--a favorite strategy of the "all religions are alike" post-Christian crowd--states
"In any online conversation about an incident of violence perpetrated by adherents of Islamic fundamentalism, the conversation will inevitably devolve into claims that Christians commit the same type and degree of violent acts, regardless of how demonstrably false that is; further, the claim will be made that past historical violence involving Christians means that present-day Christians are morally incapable of denouncing current violence involving Muslims"
So let me say now: Yes: Christians commit the sins of pride and judgmentalism. And the reason pride and judgmentalism is a sin and not a virtue in both Christian and post-Christian tradition is that Jesus preached humility said, "Do not judge". That, I repeat, is my point. There's a real difference between a religious tradition that condemns the sin of judgmental pride and a religious tradition that commends it. Watery post-Christian secular moralism is parasitic on the Christian moral sense and assumes it in its bullied Christian victims. But watery post-Christian secularism is utterly at sea when faced with people who could not care less about humility, the danger of passing judgement, multiculturalism and respect for diversity.
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http://www.telegraph.co.uk/comment/columnists/borisjohnson/9137523/Its-a-huge-mistake-to-forbid-a-tiny-act-of-Christian-worship.html
Boris Johnson’s editorial in favor of letting people wear crosses.
There are anti-Catholic comments on the comments section of that video as well.
There is a difference between judging something - a deed - and the person commissioning the deed, isn’t it ? And that is the christan stance, as far as I understand it. We shall and must judge deeds but be very careful when judging persons. Without judging deeds no moral would be possible.
To someone who grew up in Apartheid-era South Africa, this video makes me want to start polishing my guns.
It’s hard to be non-racist when the subjects of racism conform to prejudice.
One of your best blog Mark!!
the bloke in the backdrop chuckled with one of his chums something like “but you can change your clothes…” No doubt a reference to how she can change the hell verdict?
The problem, Mr. Shea, is that Islam emphatically DOES have admonitions against judging others.
“O you who have believed, let not a people ridicule [another] people; perhaps they may be better than them; nor let women ridicule [other] women; perhaps they may be better than them. And do not insult one another and do not call each other by [offensive] nicknames. Wretched is the name of disobedience after [one’s] faith. And whoever does not repent - then it is those who are the wrongdoers.” Al-Hujurat 49:11
“And do not turn your cheek [in contempt] toward people and do not walk through the earth exultantly. Indeed, Allah does not like everyone self-deluded and boastful. And be moderate in your pace and lower your voice; indeed, the most disagreeable of sounds is the voice of donkeys.” Luqman 31:18-19
Peace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you always.
Great article. If these people ever get voted into office, get appointed to be Judges, become police officers. This problem will only get worse.
Great blog, Mr. Shea. I would just add a fact about interpretation of the Koran I was unaware of until Fr. Mitch Pacwa explained in a recent episode of his program, “Threshold of Hope”: Muslims believe in abrogation. That is, they believe that statements and commands made by Mohammad in earlier portions of the Koran are abrogated—made null and void—by statements and commands he made later in his life. So, while there is an early injunction to treat “people of the Book” with respect *early* in the Koran, decades later, he commanded his followers to subdue non-Muslims by force. Fr. Mitch’s explanation goes a long way in explaining contradictory Muslim behavior to typical Westerners, especially to Christians. My only question, why isn’t Western media brave enough to point it out?
In the Christian tradition we can and MUST judge actions, just not people b/c only God knows the state of someone’s soul. That is why we can unequivocally say Abortion is gravely sinful, but we cannot say a particular woman who received an abortion is necessarily in a state of grave sin.
In my mind, there is one significant difference between Islam and Christianity that often goes unmentioned. Jesus never acted in violence toward others. He even admonished his followers not to take up arms to save him. Mohommed, on the other hand, did not (so far as I am aware) hesitate to spread his “faith” by the sword.
faithfreedom.org is a great site run by former Muslims which outlines all of the problems with Islam, and its founder mohammed. From internal inconsistencies in the qur’an, to horrible actions taken by mohammed during his lifetime.
http://www.faithfreedom.org/the-challenge/the-challenge/
that link is a great place to start.
How anyone can follow that system of belief honestly is beyond me.
Julie:
Because western media are largely cowards who believe that man lives by bread alone, that living for something higher than the groin and the belly is for suckers, and that it is therefore not worth the risk to stand up to people who will kill you if you offend them. Being cowards and rankling under the constant awareness of their cowardice, they therefore compensate by attacking Christians in order to have the illusion of “courage against religious intolerance” because they know Christians will not harm them, even as they chicken out in the face of the sort of stuff seen in this video.
I am sick to death of hearing ‘do not judge’ and so people, thinking to be all nice and tolerant, have not judged EVIL when it is before them. Of course we are called to judge and to discern good from evil. We cannot know if another soul is damned but we can indeed know that certain actions are evil. it is also called discernment and we are bound to discern good from evil by our baptism. ‘Do not judge’ has been used as a weapon against discerning evil. Enough of that!
Islam is dangerous and much of it is against natural law. It makes property of women and abuse and even their murder is justifed by them. Murder of innocents is justified by them. ‘marrying’ a little girl is justified by them. These things are evil and a slight upon the dignity of a person. And there will be NO mercy for a non-muslim. Does not anyone get that?
Rather than worry what’s in the Koran learn what’s in our own creed… for
note bene truthfully seen, ‘belief’ is a gift, so honestly it IS beyond all of us “How anyone can follow that system [of belief honestly] is beyond me.” the benighted mohamedans follow the phases of the moon, for goodness sake, the shadows of a full moon cast by the olives in the Garden of Gethsemane on the eve of the day of preparation for Passover. We are an Easter people, read the motu proprio indiction for the Year of Faith (Porta Fidei, the “door of faith” Acts 14:27) http://www.vatican.va/holy_father/benedict_xvi/motu_proprio/documents/hf_ben-xvi_motu-proprio_20111011_porta-fidei_en.html
The young lady in red is the pathetic one, no?
She sees herself (and her native culture) as the magnanimous giver, yet absent God’s love, or at least a few more companions evidencing neighborly love, she alone is a clanging gong, no? The dualism of ‘might makes right’ - police on ‘my’ side ie not going to hell - on display here is what’s so sad (pathos). The marchers following a weak/perverse idea of God cannot be faulted for at least attempting to communicate that God’s opinion on our human conduct is deserving of being voiced (sin and hell are real, final judgment faces all of us mortals). Such stark political incorrectness is certainly offensive to democratic pluralism but unfortunately Benedict’s appeal to right reason (Ravensburg address) is not amenable to being parsed into soundbites worthy of rabble-rousing shouting matches. Uncouth and uncivilized mobs can’t be engaged that way, as Malchus’ ear meeting Peter’s unsheathed sword taught us that fateful night…
Reminds me of a cartoon I saw in a liberal newspaper- a woman in a burka and a woman in a bikini both thinking “poor woman, she’s being oppressed by her misogynistic culture”.
The average American if they saw this video whould tell us that this was an exception not the rule. I have been at the end of this behavior. When traveling i had to pass through a muslim country and was stopped and asked to empty my pockets. I was, God for bid, carrying my rosery. As a Knight of Columbus I made a commitment to always carry and say often a rosery. I was treated as though I had robbed the bank. I became fearful of missing my connecting flight. I did make my flight but I never say that rosery again. The average American dosen’t beleive this, I know that we should show tolerance and love for our fellow man. I will pray but I will not stand by and let this happen to our country.
Magdalene:
Well said; indeed I do “get it”, and all Christians should.
Excellent article Mark Shea, except enough with the “do not judge”. As others have said on here, we’re told (by God through Scripture) to judge righteously.
Not only must we judge righteously, but for the sake of Christians in the Middle East who are being put to genocide by Muslims, we must judge Islam to be a seditious and blasphemous abomination and that Muslims in areas of Christian persecution are dangerous criminals. The Middle East will not be safe for Jews and Christians unless Muslims are forced to change their religion.
Mr. Shea,
On your “Magical Thinking” post, Corita and anna lisa are blaming me for my feelings of alienation—do I have to be dishonest to be accepted?
Zach:
I tried to write you privately, but your email address doesn’t work. I wrote:
I’m glad you check out the Fr. Barron video. And I’m sorry some of the readers responded to you badly. The discussion was pretty bruising from a lot of angry atheists and some of the readers seem to have just lumped you in unfairly with them.
I suspect cyberspace may not be the place to look in terms of dealing with the kinds of interpersonal issues that seem to trouble you about your experience at you parish. The web pretty much sucks at communicating care and love. It’s the agora, not the sanctuary.
Have you tried having a conversation with a spiritual director or a priest about the things bothering you (I’ll confess, I’m not altogether clear on what these are from what you wrote)?
Please know that I will say a prayer for you and I have great sympathy for your feeling of not being connected. On the bright side, that doesn’t have to be that way. If there’s anything I can do, please let me know.
notice how whenever she has an interchange with someone, there is a crowd of goons ready to surround her and intimidate her ... when she was arguing with the trash-bag-clad woman (I assume), they literally surrounded her and tried to drive her off ... when she was talking to the white-clad man, they were standing there waiting ... smooth ...
Excellent article Mark Shea, except enough with the “do not judge”.
False. Jesus does indeed say, “Do not judge”. He means, of course, that we are not to judge persons, not that we are never to make moral evaluations. It is insane for Christians to reject this clear teaching of Jesus in order “defend the faith”, just as it is insane to imagine this clear teaching means never make moral evaluations.
It is also, by the way, a clear and obvious rejection of Jesus command not to judge to make the blanket statement “Muslims” (what? all of them?) “in areas of Christian persecution are dangerous criminals”.
“When traveling i had to pass through a muslim country and was stopped and asked to empty my pockets. I was, God for bid, carrying my rosery. As a Knight of Columbus I made a commitment to always carry and say often a rosery. I was treated as though I had robbed the bank. I became fearful of missing my connecting flight. I did make my flight but I never say that rosery again.”
I hope this is a mistype- as a fellow Knight, I would never give up my beloved Rosary due to mistreatment by Islamics.
“The Middle East will not be safe for Jews and Christians unless Muslims are forced to change their religion.”
American women will not be safe from Catholic oppression until the Church is FORCED to change its religion.
Of course, I don’t believe that to be true, but sometimes I think that people simply don’t think about what they are saying.
Islam has a problem. It has been hijacked by people who like to kill other people, but it seems far too easy for some people to forget that the VAST majority of Muslims in the world aren’t blowing anyone up. They go about their daily lives like everyone else. And when their children are blown up by one of our drones, they mourn every bit as much as any Catholic parent would. Muslims themselves will have to purge and cleanse their faith just as the Catholic Church has had to do it again and again in history. There can be no “forcing” them to do it.
As far as judging righteously, God’s justice is righteous but more importantly it is tempered with mercy. You cannot simply throw out “Judge not,” because it becomes inconvenient.
As for England, it is so screwed up, in myriad ways. It becomes more and more like the world of Clockwork Orange every day. I pray that our paths will not coincide.
It’s pretty well known, but not openly discussed, Muslims don’t integrate at all into other societies. They are only polite and peaceful while a small minority. Once they have a large enough population, they quickly attempt to force their views and religion on others. If things continue like this we could possible see, in just the next generation, civil war in Great Britain. It’ll be a small number of remaining Christians and a few other Brits who haven’t fled the homeland (most likely for the US) fighting against the Muslims.
Don’t judge? But Jesus repeatedly taught men to judge rightly, insisting they “judge with righteous judgment” (John 7:24) and He praised a man who “rightly judged” (Luke 7:43). Paul shamed the Corinthian Christians because no one among them was willing to “judge the smallest matters” (1 Cor. 6:2). As the Apostle wrote, “He who is spiritual judges all things” for “we have the mind of Christ” (1 Cor. 2:15-16).
http://kgov.com/should-christians-judge
Regarding Muslims:
“It is also, by the way, a clear and obvious rejection of Jesus command not to judge to make the blanket statement “Muslims” (what? all of them?) “in areas of Christian persecution are dangerous criminals”.
You might want to study the Koran and read about how it commands “death to all infidels”.
Lizzie:
“Islam has a problem. It has been hijacked by people who like to kill other people, but it seems far too easy for some people to forget that the VAST majority of Muslims in the world aren’t blowing anyone up. They go about their daily lives like everyone else.
You need to understand Sharia Law better; “everyone else” doesn’t practice it in their daily lives.
When you see all the secularists with their fannies up in the air, you will know who won. They don’t dare oppose Islam, Islam means business.
Culture Warrior:
You are playing the fundamentalist game of picking favorite verses and ignoring ones you don’t like. Yes. Jesus said to judge with right judgement. He also said “Do not judge”. Simply waving the dislike verse away as inconvenient to your plan for inflicting force on Islam is excellent faith in neocon ideology. It is not, however, Catholic faith. Jesus did say “Do not judge” as well as the verses you cite. Catholics take them both together. They do not take a disliked passage, shout “Enough!” and imagine they have dispelled the paradox.
I happily leave this mess in God’s hands to sort out. The UK lost control a long time ago ...
Oh and Mark; perhaps a bit more “righteous judgement” would do your Church some good.
“Goodbye, Good Men”, by Michael S. Rose
http://www.culturewars.com/2002/may02_ggm.html
The seven spiritual works of mercy include “to instruct the ignorant” and “to admonish sinners”. This shows that the do-not-judge mantra is not only a misunderstanding of Christ’s words (which actually address hypocrisy and not objective criticism) but also a heresy.
lethargic wrote: notice how whenever she has an interchange with someone, there is a crowd of goons ready to surround her and intimidate her . . .
.
The woman was trying to provoke and, wittingly or unwittingly, wanted violence. It seems her tepid Christian heritage recalled that Christ was the Innocent Victim. Progressives, primarily, have been able to invert that to: victims are innocent. Hence, if she had been subject to violence she would automatically been morally right. Luckily it did not happen. At least one of the protesters was savvy enough to ask “Who are you trying to seduce?”
.
Mark’s final sentence is devastatingly accurate: the protagonist in the video has no clue.
Culture Warrior:
You stay classy, you neocon fundamentalist you.
Mark Shea, are you from Seattle?
Had I not read other articles I probably would have figured it out after reading your “Concupiscence is Not a Sin” article. By the way, the next time you write an article about homosexuality, be sure to mention more than twice that you’re not one.
Fr Robert Sirico anyone?
And with that, you are done here, Culture Warrior. Buh-bye!
I am so tired of people throwing the “Judge not least ye be judged” out. These men were getting ready to stone the woman!!! They were judging to death. The scripture says when you see a brother sinning correct him, if he does not listen go get two fellow believers and correct him, if that doesn’t work drag him to the Church. If that doesn’t work knock the dust from your sandles and head on down the road. That is not Judgement it is trying to save a soul. By the way don’t forget to get that log out of your eye by confessing, repenting and doing your penance. Judgement and correction get confused in todays world as much as pedophilia and ephebophilia.
Chronophilia isn’t confusing for those that have the ability to make sensible conclusions based on the facts.
Awesome blog with video. Your clarity of thought and expression, Mark, are a great instrument for the Truth. God bless you +
“post-Christian secularism” defines the English woman protagonist in the video. Who cares about all the talk on judgmentalism and tolerance. The woman has no intellectual and moral identity to respond. Joan of Arc did not cry out “why can’t we stop judging each other” while in the flames. She whispered “Jesus.” The woman does not understand that her society intellectually attacked Christianity for centuries, and now there is no physical representation of Christianity.
Islam is all about absolute submission to God’s law, as interpreted by koran experts. They will not submit to Man’s law (or current fashion: “watery post-Christian secularism”) if it falls short of holy writ. I missed the whole pride thing, but I did see plenty of judgement calls. “Judge Not” does not relieve us of the responsibility of Reason.
When a religious person sees a wrong being committed, that person should fight against it. To be a secularist is to be non-religious, so there’s no righteous anger to start the battle. To be “watery” is to be a relativist/subjectivist wimp, so there’s no guts to win the war.
Christians will continue to lose souls until they regain the passion that is so obviously generated by the young religions like Islam. Only the Church can provide the unity and structure capable of overwhelming such dedication and fidelity. Christianity traded unity for freedom a long time ago. We will be reaping this harvest for a long time to come.
Paul
Are you seriously suggesting that the Church needs to imitate Islamic Fundamentalists? If not, what are you saying?
Correcting our friend Geoffrey in the previous comment:
People. In Islam, and I am speaking of the dominant meta-physics therein, people, in the absolute-sense, are only believers. There are however gradations of people-hood. Women are half-people; that is to say, men are fully-people, when Moslems, for they are half-angelic. And, since it is the angelic-ism that makes for a persons status in Islam this is how we can declare some people are more a person than another. This is also our basis for why blacks cannot enter Paradise without performing an act of blood atonement, specifically dying in the act of cutting a throat of an unbeliever.
Now, this is scary stuff…
Excellent article, Mark. Having been to the Middle East many times, let me just say I am extremely concerned for those that can’t see the value of a culture formed by Judeo-Christian ethics vs those formed by Sharia law. One reason I converted from atheist to Catholicism was in response to what I found in Islam. I was in the military after 9-11 and was researching Islam to understand the anger. What I found made me prize the changes that Christ has wrought on Western civilization. Through the lens of my Catholic faith I see Islam as a (for wont of a better term) perversion of Judaism and Christianity, that leaves open paths for the powerful and selfish to control others. Only my opinion.
I don’t understand the argument about judging. It seems in most cases every one is saying the same thing. You should judge the action as sinful, attempt to lead others to Christ, but you cannot know the interior condition of their soul and should not condemn them for eternity. That judgement is reserved for the Lord. Am I wrong?
Thank you, Aaron. Yes, you are right that Islam is, in many ways, an extreme simplification of both the Jewish and Christian traditions. That’s why Dante, like most medievals regarded Mohammed, not as a pagan, but as a heretic. And yes, its view of God as a cosmic despot and slavemaster is the parent of the fact that Islam creates political despotism. Similarly, its denial of, for instance, the Christian conception of a God who is a first who creates secondary causes has had a profoundly retarding effect on the sciences in the Islamosphere. In other words, we take it for granted in the Christian tradition that the flame is what causes the paper to blacken. In Islam, God is what causes the paper to blacken. The flame just happens to exist at the same time. God is the direct cause of everything and there are not secondary causes. If you don’t believe in secondary causes, there is nothing for science to learn about because there are no causal relations beyond “God doing stuff” and to posit “laws” which Allah is bound to obey is impious.
Getting back to your question: the argument about judging concerns distinguishing judgment of ideas and acts (which we must do) with judging persons (which we must not do). So when some of my readers declare that we are not bound at all by “Do Not judge” and merrily begin declaring all Muslims to be criminal, they are ignoring Christian charity. So you are right on the mark.
Is Islam the work of the devil?
Mohammad claims to have communicated with the angel Gabriel. The structure of Islam is directly a result of these communications.
Is it possible that Mohammad was actually communicating with the devil? And is it possible that the devil used Mohammad to create this whirlwind we know as Islam? Look at some of the facts about Islam, and ask yourself how this is possible.
*Islam teaches a small number of its most devout believers that it is OK to kill in the name of Islam.
*Devout Muslims say (Allah Akbar) “God is great” while in the process of killing.
*Mohammad had sex with his 9 year old bride when he was 54. Mohammad is the ultimate human – all Muslim males are supposed to emulate his example.
*Islam teaches equality of the sexes and puts women in burkas.
Is Islam the work of the devil? I believe it is.
Read how jihadi created fear hold Islam together at: http://islamsfatalflaw.blogspot.com
Islam could be the work of the devil in that they are always pushing Hell on everyone and I am sure the devil likes that, He wants more residents, and they sure work that destination into every conversation when they find you are not with their cult. Reminds me of Mel Gibson who thinks if you are not a “traditional Catholic” you are destined for the same place. Seems everybody wants the other bloke to go to hell. Not very friendly…
The West is crashing…I’ve no doubt whatsoever about that.
I saw this video for the first time about two or three weeks ago and didn’t find it surprising.
About ten years back an Air Canada flight en route to Europe ran out of gas over the Atlantic because the ground personnel had forgot to top-off the tanks!
BUt the plane, of course, didn’t fall out of the sky. It continued to glide all the while slowly losing both ari speed and altitude.
The pilot, a captian Piche, did some quick calculations on the back of an envelope and figured the craft had both enough momentum and altitude to make it to the Carany Islands ofr a ‘safe’ crash landing.
He did just that and all aboard came away completely unscathed.
Our civilisation has run out of its fuel, its religion, and the craft we’re in, though still in the air. is destined to crash.
When you’re over the Atlantic at 40,000 ft in an airplane with no fuel, all you see below is blue water.
By the time you’re down to 30,000 ft, everything looks the same with the exception you’ve lost 10,000 ft of altitude.
At some point, though, you become so close to the ocean that the water appears to stazrt rushing up towards you, and then it’s lights out.
The Catechism teaches (#841), quoting from Lumen Gentium: “‘The plan of salvation also includes those who acknowledge the Creator, in the first place amongst whom are the Muslims; these profess to hold the faith of Abraham, and together with us they adore the one, merciful God, mankind’s judge on the last day.’” You, Mark, cite Dante Alighieri as considering Islam to be a sort of heresy rather than a paganist religion—a view share, I believe, as well by Hilaire Belloc; and also in accord with the Catechism, whose re-write was directed by the current occupant of the Chair of Peter while Prefect for the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith. Therefore, believing as I do in the infallibility of the Ordinary Magisterial Teaching Office of the Church, as evidenced in her repeated, constant teachings on Islam, I affirm that I believe as the Church teaches. Even so, I admit of a failure of the intellect to understand this particular teaching of the Church, even though I try to will myself to accept this teaching gladly; it is difficult. Concupiscence—a desire to make my own truth—is strong, very strong. May God convert the Muslims, as Bishop Sheen once predicted would occur, through the magnificent intercession of Our Lord’s Blessed Mother. (For that matter, may God convert our own hearts—my own will could use some purifying. “Thy will be done” must be the hardest thing in the universe, going all the way back to Adam and Eve!!)
@CultureWarrior: Mark, I wholly agree with you that “Concupiscence is not a sin.” Concupiscence is surely the tendency to sin, the desire to “make our own truth,” a desire going all the way back to the Garden of Eden. Indeed, the Church teaches that Baptism allows us entry to sanctifying grace but cannot erase the effect of the Fall of Adam (and Eve), which is concupiscence. This truth manifests in all our lives’ struggles to “purify the will,” so that our wills are wholly in accord with God’s; and not for our own sakes, but for His sake alone. Few people attain to evidence of having wholly purified their wills in this life—people whom the Church acclaims as “saints.” Along these lines, I reiterate, with the Church, that original sin is inherited, in all its effects, by all of humanity (Catechism # 404). And, so, “Culture Warrior” needs to “get with the program,” and learn better to understand—and accept—the Church’s rich teachings.
<<The most telling line in that whole pathetic thing is the Muslim woman’s confident declaration, “I *am* judging you.”>>
I think the most telling was the gal acted offended. Poor girl. Was the Muslim responses not predictable?
Was she really trying to “win the sole” or be provocative herself and make a point?
1) Assuming she IS Christian, she might want to learn her audience better like how to dress, and if she really has a ministry to go to these folk (aside from the Secularist, Atheist, Deists, New Age, Enviros, and that who might complete their faith), she might make an honest effort to study them.
She’s a Brit… a little Sheed and Chesterton would not hurt.
2) She might also want to practice talking with some of our anti-Catholic Protestant brethren before she does this again.
3) Cameron and Obama might be helping us out in seriously getting us off our “bums” :). A little persecution is not bad to get us all fired up like other religious groups. “Picking up our crosses” the way we are heading for will not be fun at all. I might suggest talking to our brethren that lived in Eastern Europe before the collapse of the Iron Curtain, but we’ve been getting flabby these last 80 years.
Yes, this obsessional criticism of Christians and ignorance of Islam has been going on here for some time now. Now cities in Britain are controlled by people with these conservative anti-Western attitudes:
http://happypropagandist.blogspot.co.uk/2012/04/is-george-galloway-promoting.html
You lot in America are lucky you still have freedom of speech. All we have now in the UK is subservience to the EU. Soon the whole of Turkey will be entitled to settle in the UK, and none of us have even been asked, or notified to give us the chance to object.
She will be scared when they bury her up to her waist and then stone her to death. These marchers should be marched onto a ship and sent back to whatever Islamic country they choose. I judge Muslims. They are guilty of violence, murder, hatred, and persecuting Christians. Christendom awake.
I can’t even describe the feelings I have about seeing the land of so many great saints be subject to these kinds of cultural changes. Same in France. Muslims have the right to believe whatever they like - but what is so disturbing is to see England going down more or less without a fight to the forces of secularism and Islamism. I predict that one day the secularists will be longing to see someone, anyone, wearing a cross. Perhaps when they have done away with visible Christianity, and the nation has been taken over by Muslims, they will come to have some respect again for our precious Lord, and return to Him.
And PS, all you English Christians: you should now ALL wear a cross at can find to work—perhaps all during the same week—in absolute revolt against such a freedom-hating ruling as the anti-cross ruling. Enough with this freedom hating, Cross hating nonsense. Sad thing is, if the employee had been wearing a pagan charm, or a necklace with a line from the Koran in calligraphic script, they wouldn’t have bothered her at all, you can bet your bottom dollar.
Thank you for this excellent post. I think the woman deserves credit for demonstrating the conflict so vividly (however inadvertently): her red dress & attempt at reasonable dialogue contrasts sharply with the black & white of her interlocutors (both in thought & dress). That she betrays no awareness of the Christian roots of her underlying assumptions shows the enormity of the task before us. There is bitter irony in the fact that these Muslims are not only ungrateful, they are pertfectly willing to use their English civil liberties to enslave their host country. They clearly think she is beneath engaging in civil discourse; their message is “convert or go to hell”, after of course paying the jizyah and ekeing out a subservient existence.
Geoffrey on Friday, Apr 13 quotes the Quran: “O you who have believed, let not a people ridicule [another] people ...” Indeed, so those who are reacting to the woman are not aware of this. Just as many nominal Christians are not aware of the Bible!
We Jehovah’s Witnesses are having somewhat more success than the nominally Christian woman in the video. (BTW: Red dress??? Rev 17!!! :-) )
First, we try to send Arabic-speaking publishers into majority Muslim neighborhoods. Second, we send same-sex couples, and our women are modestly dressed (as usual). Third, we don’t shy away from identifying ourselves as e.g. ‘Christian witnesses of Jehovah’, but we also [correctly] identify ourselves as ‘worshippers of the God of Abraham’.
Just suggestions; run them past your Bishops first, of course. Oh, and it helps to offer a positive message from the Bible about the promised end to problems faced by all people. Of course, we do that in all neighborhoods.
Mr. Patton- I have yet to meet a human being who has the ability to make sensible conclusions based on the facts. I know a few computers that do, but their set of facts has been severely limited to Prevent Confusion.
I have a serious question (and I preface it that way so that folks won’t ask am I merely trolling, et cetera):
In the event that a person is marching in the streets of one’s own country, explicitly declaring their intent to take it over and replace its government with a totalitarian regime…
...under what circumstances is it morally licit to revoke their citizenship/visa and forcibly expel them from the country, even if they have no other “home” country to which they may plausibly return?
I ask because it appears to me that the only alternatives are…
(a.) Let the takeover happen;
(b.) Jail them, and watch them radicalize the jail inmate population, which doesn’t matter if you keep them and all radicalized inmates in prison indefinitely, but in that case you’ll have a crowding problem; and if you release them, then you’ve just increased their numbers;
(c.) Kill them, which seems like it ought morally to be a last resort.
Speaking more broadly, it seems to me that demographic takeover is always a weak point of representative governments. (I don’t say “democracies” because nobody in the modern world is damn fool enough to have one; we typically have constitutional democratic republics, which are far superior.) One doesn’t mind demographic changes provided that the new crowd is just as enamored of human liberty and dignity as the original demographic. But the replacing of the original demographic with another one able to vote away all government protections of liberty and dignity, replacing them with totalitarianism, is something republics need to formally establish how to deal with.
Anyway, let’s say that you’re the Queen of England and for this particular emergency you bypass your ministers and take a direct hand in this situation by taking direct control of armies and police. At that point you do…what? Catch ‘em in the middle of a demonstration, round up all participants, put ‘em on a plane, and…airlift them to Mecca? Give them a complimentary Hajj and let them figure out where they want to go from there, so long as it isn’t back into the U.K.?
If not that, then, what?
Truly the “Judge not” words of Christ have been used to throttle Christians. It should be understood, however, that God does judge, Christ does and will judge. We have revelation and the life of Jesus to guide us therefore in evaluating (judging) behavior, including our own. It is when we make the leap from judging behavior to condemning persons that we go astray. Jesus did not condemn the woman but told her to go and sin no more.
pass on
One thing to keep in mind here is that Islam is very simliar to Judiasm is its current structure. I work with an Imam and it is my understanding that, like those of Jewish faith, there is no central authority, only those that study the law and the word and ‘help’ other to understand what it means fo their life. So, the difference in those who try to live by the law vary greatly. There are Orthodox Jews, moderate Jews, liberal Jews and all the thing inbetween. They all intrpret the Torah differently. It is the same for the Muslims. What we are seeing now is a great rise in fundamentalist type muslims.
I find the Muslims to be more like the Christians in this regard than the Jews- there are only three major schools of Jewish thought. There are at least 8 major schools of Christian thought and 30,000 denominations/sects; there are 14 major recognized schools of Islamic thought and thanks to the way two of them view God and revelation, well over 100,000 sects who all think they are the “true Muslims”.
What we’re currently seeing is the same thing that happened in Christianity from 1450-1650, and gee, if you count years from the birth of the prophet, the year is now 1442- with all the strife of the Reformation ahead of us.
“Democratic takeover” is not what we’re talking about, but “demographic takeover.” The peoples of Islam have not lost the ability or proclivity to reproduce. If I were to judge, I’d have to say that the Anglos, both in England and Americ, have lost something, or a certain set of somethings.
The prohibition on judging in the gospel is widely misunderstood. “Judging” in a biblical context is another word for ruling or controlling. Jesus proscribes unjust domination as practiced by tyrannical authorities, and puts rule on another footing: loving service. This is the altogether higher level of the cross.
But how do you explain “Ich Dien” to a people who have persecuted all their prophets to death, strangled their humanity in political correctness, trampled on every nation of the world, established Malthus as the new Moloch, pitted the antichrist of positivism against the vicar of Christ, and promulgated apocalyptic vice to all the corners of the earth, rewarding it in the form of MBE’s to every criminal pretender in modern society. The only thing that’s missing is a tie-in to Oslo.
The only thing I can reasonably conclude is that “Ich Dien” means “what goes around comes around.”
@Geoffrey: obviously in this video, the Muslim man said that anything in the Quaran that pertains to obeying laws and being respectful to others pertains to Muslims’ behavior with other Muslims; NOT towards infidels or non-believers. The law doesn’t compel them to treat us justly because we’re all going to hell. Contrast that with a Christian tradition that holds we treat everyone charitably regardless of belief or non-belief.
Ted - thanks for our post. The number are very interesting. I was more describing the fact that there were no bishops or such that are regarded as having the authority to teach, interpret and rule as does Christinaity. But the main point, which you expanded upon, was that there are a multitude of beliefs held by the entire spectrum of the Muslim community. Unfortunatly, those that seem to be the most faithful to the Koran and the tradititons of their faith are the more radical Muslims seen in this video. So, appeals to be more faithful to Islam do not help.
Another thing that is going on is that there are state / corporate forces in play that are deliberately stirring up and strengthening these groups just as they did the communists in the 80’s. They do not realize it, but they are being manipulated by those who do not believe as they do.
England is the Dowry of Mary. For centuries her sons and daughters held to the faith and on the eve of the protestant so-called “reformation” she was arguably the most devout Catholic country in Europe. Since then scores of men and women have been martyred on account of the Faith. Make no mistake, English Catholics, not a few of them in Parliament, are not going to simply roll over and accept the liberal secularist moral agenda. Watch this space.
This is a just war against a perverted psychotic cult of throat cutters pretending to be a religion following a murderous “prophet” pedophile. “Laying on of hands” may be necessary. Remember Tours.
Thomas, when you make statements like that, which are really veiled threats, you have to be in a position to carry them out. The technical name for making a threat which you are unable to carry out is: “spitting in the wind.” The reason for this phraseology is that the spit always lands back in your face. Are you hoping that someone will read your comment and feel inspired to take dramatic action, like raise an army and free palestine from the turk? Those days are gone, long gone. Our armies can’t even defend themselves from their psychiatrists.
If only I weren’t a product of post-baby-boomer public education, I could take the time and would have the requisite attention-span to decipher what this article was actually about. Oh, well. I wonder what’s on the telly?
“Second, we send same-sex couples. . . ” Hey Doug! As one of your Nicean Creed-approving cousins, could you please clarify for me: Exactly where do you “send” them?
Matt B. You need to B all you can be. They are not threats, they are statements of considered courses of action that are in response to grave actions and demented ideologies of historical fact and likely future against
a vicious form of barbarism that demands world domination.The answer is blowing in the wind. Be careful to check the wind direction before you spit and you won’t get hit.
Here is a fact….Christianity WILL be overrun by islam and Christianity will become a small, opressed minority religion which WILL fade from society. Now why is that the case? Well here’s the truth. When the average Joe or Jane gives his or her heart to Christ they seem to believe that they must get rid of their backbones in the process. We end up with Christians who are “backboneless” and don’t have the guts or courage to stand up for their religion, nor do they have the “backbone” to directly oppose evil. Jesus did not lack “backbone” He would confront evil head on. It is time we become more like Christ, or we will fall prey to satanic islam. Stop being politically correct…start calling a spade a spade. Our time is running out…. Stop praying about the matter and start doing something about it. tic toc tic toc tic toc….
Howsit Mark? Hope you are well. By the way guys…tic toc tic toc tic toc…Christianity’s time is running out…unless we start standing up for what is right and start taking more of a team stance against evil. Anyhow, on the issue of “do not judge others” which tends to turn the average Christian into a jellyfish… We must be careful of not misinterpreting this whole “do not judge” thing. What is meant by “do not judge” is “do not pronounce a punishment over others who are committing evil deeds”. Christians are not brain-dead nor are they blind. When a Christian sees somebody else commit a bad deed he or she will obviously have the knowledge and wisdom to recognise and identify evildoing. Pronouncing evil deeds as being evil deeds isn’t a sin!!! Christ after all in Matthew 7:16 mentioned that “Ye shall know them by their fruits.” (KJV) In other words, you will be able to identify evil, and declaring evil as evil aint no sin. And that goes for us as Christians as well. Christians often think that they must attempt to deal with evil by only praying about it. What a fallacy. We must pray about it yes, but we must do something about it as well, because just as the devil is recognised by his fruits so too are Christians recognised by their fruits, in other words they will be recognised by what THEY DO!!! Don’t stop praying, but please start DOING as well. If we don’t start DOING we WILL get overrun by satanic islam. Hats off to you Mr Shea, keep up the good work. :-)
Why are we afraid to judge? These people are barbarians who bring nothing good to the world.
Do some delving into history, you will see the link between so called “radical” islam, and Hitler’s Nazi’s… think i’m talking BS? Look up Haj Amin al-Huseinni…Then compare the two ideologies…
Mark:
“I think this ecumenical unity must wait until Christ in Protestants and Christ in Catholics see each other. That is, until they see the same Christ, until you have what you might call “evangelical intimacy.” And see more Christ in the other. The same is true of Eastern Orthodox. They must see the adoration and the beauty of Christ in us or else reunion will be a watering down. And with the Jews! The Jews must see us as more Jewish, more faithful, more martyrs, than the Jews. The same with the Muslims. They must see their “islam,” their absolute submission to God in us, and their spiritual warfare, their right jihad. And the Buddhist must see in us a greater peace, a greater mindfulness. And even the worldings and sex maniacs. They must see in us the joy that they’re seeking and not finding.”
http://www.peterkreeft.com/audio/03_ecumenism/ecumenism_transcription.htm
A thing to keep in mind on “judgmentalism” is that we Christians have confused tolerance with acceptance, and should not. Tolerate means only that, tolerate. We may be required to tolerate other beliefs, but we do not have to accept them, and should not pretend we do. If that comes across as being judgmental, so be it. To come across otherwise is to come across as wimpy.
If Catholics stand up as proud Catholics, Islam won’t survive where its there to be compared to it. Many southern European regions are proof of that (and not merely by force of arms, as undoubtedly be claimed). Sicily, for example, has its problems, but Catholicism survived and converted an Islamic demographic assault there. But not by appealing to relativism.
Count me among those Catholics annoyed with Social Justice agenda of being politically correct. We are called to be humble, but not doormats. I will not yield United States sovereignty to these people or anyone else. National defense is biblical. And in case anyone has forgotten, the Bible tells us in Exodus the Lord gave very clear instructions to Moses and Joshua that the Hebrews were to totally annihilate their enemies to wit: the Canaanites, Jebusites, Hivites, Perizzites, and more. The Lord ordered these people destroyed including their temples and religious icons because they were an abomination before the Lord.
Ref: Exodus 17: At Rephidim, Amalek came and waged war against Israel.
9 Moses, therefore, said to Joshua, “Pick out certain men, and tomorrow go out and engage Amalek in battle. I will be standing on top of the hill with the staff of God in my hand.” 10 So Joshua did as Moses told him: he engaged Amalek in battle after Moses had climbed to the top of the hill with Aaron and Hur. 11 As long as Moses kept his hands raised up, Israel had the better of the fight, but when he let his hands rest, Amalek had the better of the fight. 12 Moses’ hands, however, grew tired; so they put a rock in place for him to sit on. Meanwhile Aaron and Hur supported his hands, one on one side and one on the other, so that his hands remained steady till sunset. 13 ***And Joshua mowed down Amalek and his people with the edge of the sword.*** 14 Then the LORD said to Moses, “Write this down in a document as something to be remembered, and recite it in the ears of Joshua: I will completely blot out the memory of Amalek from under the heavens.”
For those who say “Well, I only serve a loving and kind God” you have forgotten that He is also a God of justice as well.
England is where Great Britain used to be. Next it will be Engcaliphat, unless they can receive a spine replacement of their current rubber one, with a real one. A politicallycorrectectomy would also help them to regain their sanity. Prayers for the elimination of their blind dementia are also needed. The Atlantic ocean is not a barrier to their contagion.
Christ told his apostles in the great commission, “Go into all the world and preach the gospel to every creature. 16 He who believes and is baptized will be saved; but he who does not believe will be condemned.” (Mk 16:15B:16).
The command to Christians is to tell, and the onus is on the hearer to respond. In Islam, the command to Muslims is to compel by any means the subjugation of all to allah. One can either join the club, or be forced into submission or death.
What kind of god has so little self-confidence that he must win his way through fear, intimidation and acts of violence? Allah holds traits in common with human despots than he does with an all powerful, eternal deity. He is not worthy of worship, and his high places need to be torn down.
It’s sad to see how Britain and other European countries have been in a race to the bottom in terms of Christian values…In Britain’s case it started with its anti-Catholicism, which set in motion a moral relativism that is too timid to assert moral or religious teachings as objectively true. The fear to admit any truth as absolute and all of the wishy-washy “I’m OK you’re OK” attitude is a clear outcome of the reformation, anticlericalism and secularization. One can be so open-minded that their brains fall out, and that’s what’s happening in the Western world.
And radical Islam…that’s another story…
And to think that the average Muslim family in Europe has six children while the native Europeans have less then two. This trend is not good. How long will it take before Muslims are the majority in Europe? I’ve seen estimates in the neighborhood of only 50 years. Most Americans are completely in the dark about what is going on. Looks like the RC Church was right again about the evils of artificial contraception and abortion. The lesson is clear: abandon the natural moral law and disaster will follow.
Wow, Mark!!
“the idiot stepchild of a debased Anglican/Calvinist tradition.”
Well, I agree with you, but whenever I make statements like that, I am told I am “uncharitable” and need more grace, etc.
I have no love whatsoever for Protestantism. But I am constantly scolded for making disdainful statements about it over on Steve Ray’s forum.
Ah well…...so I’ll go to Confession Saturday. Again.
PS. It was said that when Polycarp met the heretic Marcion coming out the baths in Rome, Marcion asked “Do you know who I am”
To which Polycarp replied. “You are the first step-son of Satan.”
Seems that the Early Fathers had a rather more dim view of heresy that we do today.
very good collection.
http://www.evdepazar.com/indirimli-urunler/
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