The Roman Catholic Church, from the Popes on down, have such a poor record of handling child sexual abuse issues that it is now almost impossible to clear the name of an innocent priest.  The Church’s actions and inactions are solely to blame.  All else, for example, coverage by the media, and public perceptions of priests, are only reactions.

“Once the toothpaste is out of the tube, it’s hard to get it back in.”  Collectively, priests are going to find it very difficult to regain public trust and credibility.  Wearing the Roman collar was once a source of pride; albeit unfair, it is now a source of shame.  The psychological discomfort that it brought me was part of the reason I left seminary.  One can only imagine the number of vocations that will never be, due to the ineptitude of RCC leaders.

Thank you for this article!  Yes, we need to help restore the good name of our priests - these decent, God-centered men do not deserve this.  Just like public school teachers, daycare providers, women’s live-in boyfriends who do terrible things including and up to the point of some of them killing some innocent children - are they ALL viewed the same way?  No - so our priests should not be either.  Thank God for the young men who are entering the priesthood - we need to also support the seminaries when we can.

I think this is partly being driven by the fact that public schools can’t be sued.  In the situation you describe, you could have any number of children molested and what would be done?  Ironically, teachers would be transferred to other schools and some might lose their jobs, maybe a few would go to jail. 

In my area (Maryland near DC) we have had 3 teachers in the news for molesting children in the past year or so… and zero priests.  Yet no stigma is attached to teaching.

Every time I think the Archdiocese is over the top with child protection (our mayor can’t address our Boy Scouts more than once a year because he hasn’t gone through Child Protection Training, and that’s with 5 other adults in the room), I realize, really, there never was a scandal here because our diocese has been paranoid for decades.  Not a bad place to be, wish the schools would join us.

The Church must be purified so that it may enter the New Era.

Yet more excellent reasons why my kids will never attend a public school.

All through the system, there was a distinct feeling that there was nothing to worry about, because “it couldn’t happen here.”

Yeah, because “Everybody Knows” that that sort of thing only ever happens in the Catholic Church.  It’s exclusively a Catholic problem!  It’s interesting, isn’t it, what “Everybody Knows”?

In my area (Maryland near DC) we have had 3 teachers in the news for molesting children in the past year or so… and zero priests.  Yet no stigma is attached to teaching.

...because they were probably “teaching” the children about their sexuality, or somesuch.

/sarcasm.  Sorry.  Must’ve gotten out of the wrong side of the bed this morning, and at any rate, the inconsistency in the reporting really does grind my gears. 

She was so busy making comments about how awful “those Catholic popes” are that she didn’t hear any of my attempts to respond.

What the heck does her statement even mean?  It sounds rather incoherent.  There are times when I read stuff like this, and I’m reminded that anti-Catholicism didn’t ever stop in this country.  It just went underground, and it resurfaces. 

And yet, there is hope.  Many seminarians discerning vocations to the priesthood aren’t deterred, and Fr. Robert Barron not too long ago, in one of his YouTube videos, said that this is a great time to be a priest, urging those discerning that “your time is now.”  Martyrdom, red or white, is never easy;  without sounding flippant, men have been priests under worse circumstances.  And one wears a Roman collar, not as a source of pride, but as a sign that one is set apart from the world by God for a specific purpose.  The Church will be purified, because she sees crisis as an opportunity for purification.

Indeed, we also need to stand up for our priests.  We also need to be holy, ourselves.  How many times do we lay folk demand holy priests, but we fall way, way short, ourselves?  Is that one of the reasons why, for example, we don’t go to Confession as much as we used to or should?

While we’re on the subject, can I humbly ask prayers for healing for Kansas City?

How long do you think it will be before your second version of the description of the public school environment (except with the “Catholic Church” modifications) will be picked up by some news media outlet and used as a real story?

It is really terrible that there is such a lax attitude about this in the public schools and the Catholic Church is held to such high standards.  As someone said - I think that it’s about the money.

How about an equal number of newspaper stories about the good that priests do.  Unfortunately, many of our priests now have their own homes and live independent of any kind of community life and they get lots of popularity for sounding off their liberal views to the congregation who loves to know that their priests are just regular guys.

Way to go, Jen. Thanks for your courage.

In one of Archbishop Dolan’s blog posts, he mentions his encounter with a man at an airport who associated the bishop with sexual abuse. The man said, “I can’t look at you or any other priest without thinking of a sexual abuser.” Archbishop Dolan’s response? ““Well, I’m sure sorry you feel that way.  But, let me ask you, do you automatically presume a sexual abuser when you see a Rabbi or Protestant minister? How about when you see a coach, or a boy scout leader, or a foster parent, or a counsellor, or physician?”.....“Of course not! But what’s all that got to do with it?” the man asked…..“A lot,” Dolan explained, “because each of those professions have as high a percentage of sexual abuse, if not even higher, than that of priests.”

I hope and pray that Mrs. Fulwiler pulled their son out of the government school pronto.

And, then the abuse happens at a public school and does the “official” at the school, i.e.; teachers, principals, get indicted for “not reporting”, NO. And, “no” also in the Catholic schools. The civil authorities are after the bishops. Weaken the bishops then the “progressives” think they have hope of a democratized Church that they have been lobbying for for almost 50 years. The “progressives” want the laity to oversee the bishops but when something bad happens, they don’t and would not want the blame. It would still go to the bishops. They want their cake, but don’t want to eat it, because they know it will taste bad because their cake has the missing ingredient of apostolic authority. They know it will taste bad - that’s their conscience speaking.

That the Catholic hierarchy are now synonomous with pederasty is their own fault. They willfully chose to side with Satan regarding child sex abuse for decades, and would have continued to do so had the public sphere not shone a light on their evil deeds. For Ms. Fulwiler, who never had to live through those years, who wasn’t abused by a priest, to whine and cry about how it’s so unfaaaairrrrr, wahwahwah, that people are justifiably wary of the Church now (and, yes, the Kansas City situation proves that the Church is not at all seriously committed to putting children’s safety first) is appallingly callous and shallow. Because of people like Fulwiler, who are determined to sweep the crimes of priests under the rug in order to make themselves feel better about their religion of choice, the Catholic Church will continue to be a very dangerous place for children.

Catholic priests, nuns, bishops,and popes etc have for centuries earned their reputation for covering up sexual abuse crimes.  They caused their own problems, and they continue to deny that a problem even exists.  Sexual abuse occurs in all walks of life.  But no where is it more heinous than when it is perpetrated in “God’s” name.

Well, to steal and repurpose a line from Bette Davis, “Priesthood ain’t for sissies.”  Remember the world hated Jesus first, so much that it put Him to death.  That said, I know so many priests you could sorta call them my homeboys…I like to think I’m a decent judge of character and if anybody wants to harm or slander these upstanding gentlemen they’ll certainly have to go through me first.

“one of those Catholic popes”?  Pssh.  We have so many popes it does get hard to remember which one.  lol!

I’ll be sure to tell my buddy in seminary, who is in his 20s, that things other people may or may not have done for “decades” are mysteriously his fault.

We live in an age of deceit.  Facts about who is and isn’t molesting kids or protecting kids from molestation aren’t important to the opinion makers.  The narrative is that priests are molesters. Those who hate the Church and those who want the Church’s moral voice discredited prefer it that way.  That’s why people latch on so readily to such palpable lies.  I think it’s time for a boycott against corporate media that engage in these smears against the Church to call attention to the hate mongering it it.  Of course the press will depict it as a secretive institution with skeletons in its closet trying to punish intrepid journalistic watchdogs, but it might gain us a public hearing to discuss what is truth, what are lies and what are bigoted stereotypes.  The problem is that too many Christians are attached to the entertainment provided by the corporate media giants to even consider a boycott.  We’d rather be slandered as long as we can watch Two and a Half Men.

This is a staggering problem for a parent to confront.  For some it may be coming up against a popular teacher, or a friend or neighbor on the local school board.  There are a lot of implications the parent has to come to terms with such as, “How can I knowingly leave my child in this school when this problem exists?” and “Where will I take my child for an education?”  Understandably, most parents are not prepared to deal with this problem and so choose not to “think about that”, or accept the idea “it couldn’t happen here” while struggling to do their best to protect their children. 

The Dept. of Education did fund a study a few years ago, but it was barely mentioned in the media.  It can be read here:

Shakeshaft, Charol (2004). “Educator Sexual Misconduct: A Synthesis of Existing Literature”. United States Department of Education. http://www.ed.gov/rschstat/research/pubs/misconductreview/report.pdf.

Charol Shakeshaft and Audrey Cohan (1994), In loco parentis: Sexual abuse of students in schools (What administrators should know).

“Has Media Ignored Sex Abuse In School?”. CBS News. August 24, 2006. http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2006/08/24/opinion/main1933687.shtml.

csmc, I have a really hard time believing you read this article the whole way through - it’s really quite reasonable and fair.  I think this is where you blew your cover as to what the real issue is, not child abuse or Ms. Fulwiler:

“to make themselves feel better about their religion of choice”

Why, oh why am I getting a distinct “!@#$% of Babylon” vibe from what’s left unsaid?

The tenets of our religion do not endorse deeply sinful behavior by people, so there’s nothing to feel bad about there.  While people can be very bad and embarrassing representatives of a religion, you have to look at whether that is consistent with the actual doctrine.  I suspect you know the difference more than you are letting on.  Most people know and admit there is a difference, if not all the time then at least (ahem) when it suits them.

It’s very odd to me to see so much Catholic anger directed toward the media and so little toward the child rapists within their midsts. It’s a mindset I’m quite relieved to have little insight into.

Ms. Fulwiler’s take on the sex abuse scandal has always been one of coldheartedly disregarding the actual, real, live human beings who were abused by priests. For her, the PRIMARY focus should be the reputation of the Church, not the victims of this abuse. It is that arrogant attitude that caused the sex scandal in the first place.

Also, the continual whiny, whingy “they did it too, so why are you picking on us” excuse is getting old. I am aware that others abuse children as well. That does not excuse for one second what the Church did, and it also does not address the fact that there is something far worse for an institution that claims to be the One True Church to have engaged in pure, unadulterated evil from each creepy, sick, sadistic priest right on up to the various Popes who knew what was going on and did nothing to stop it—who actually put more children in harm’s way by recycling these priests through parish after parish.

Every time they get called on their actions, they whine like babies, try to place the blame on others (including the children themselves), make excuses and cry about how unfair it is that other people sexually abuse kids too so what’s the big deal and why is everyone picking on them.

All I hear about is all these wonderful, good priests. Right. Yet not one of them put the safety of children first and defied their bishops and their Pope and did the right thing. Not. One.  Where were they when they KNEW these men were hurting children and their bishops were covering it up? Their obedience to some hierarchy of men was more important than the innocence of children and more important than the Word of God. If that’s a “good” priest, they’re no better than the abusers themselves.

Read this the same morning I heard on the news about a teacher who has been arrested for habitual statutory rape of high school football players.

If only teachers could marry ...

(PS: How many people will “fist pump” for the lucky football players instead of being horrified that children of both sexes are sexually abused in public schools with so little attention paid to their suffering?)

Kevin is right to suggest boycotting media that incessantly flog Catholicism while ‘letting off the hook’ all other occupations/denominations that have ever harbored pedophiles.  For this reason, I have dumped the Boston Globe newspaper, and more importantly, have gotten others to also quit supporting that pathetic liberal rag.

Ms. Fulwiler writes: I don’t know that I would necessarily advocate for less coverage of this kind of wrongdoing within the Church.

It seems that is the point of this column since it rests on the idea that in this particular area the Church takes the stand, as Ms. Fulwiler argues, that we are no better no worse than most. What kind of logic is that for an institution that presents itself in all other ways as the moral leader on the planet?

Yes, Christine, because the fact there are sexual predators elsewhere excuses prest abusers. Here’s the difference—she was arrested and is being tried, unlike the dozens and dozens of priest abusers who were protected by your Church and who were given a free pass and complete access to more children to abuse by their bishops.

csmc, your wild claims that all priest and popes knew what was going on just shows that you’re not conversant with the facts.  But since you cite the Word of God, I refer you to the part about “Let he who is without sin cast the first stone.”  The Catholic church does not pretend that her members are sinless, even priests or popes.  But it takes a blindness to one’s own sin to be so eager to condemn others.  Also since priests are far less likely to abuse than school teachers, I’m waiting for you to conclude that education is evil.

“We basically said to the principle, the government, parents of fellow students, and anyone else who would listen”

Read more: http://www.ncregister.com/blog/jennifer-fulwiler/for-the-childrens-sake-these-stereotypes-about-priests-must-stop/#ixzz1btzyjVKh

Well, first, the word is “principal”.
OK-I am a college teacher and I have spoken.

I live in Kansas City, and am a member of the Catholic Diocese of Kansas City-St. Joseph. Unfortunately, the administration of the diocese has failed in leadership, as they failed to follow not only the state of Missouri mandate in reported allegations of inappropriate behavior,required of all individuals who work with children (including Bishop Finn) but the diocese also has failed to follow a written agreement it signed in 2008 as part of a sex abuse settlement with a nunder of plaintiffs (in cases deemed credible) that the diocese would follow strict guidelines in reporting this information.
The Chancery sat on the discs with the alledgedly pornographic imagies for FIVE MONTHS, before turning the information ove to the Kansas City, MO Police Department. As someone who has taken the child-protection training mandated by the bishops, I KNOW what I have to do..ask for forgivness later, and not wait for permission.
—
And, to the poster indicating school districts can’t be sued. Since when?
Districts across the country have paid millions in damages in these kind of cases, and that’s when the administrators turn in offenders at first report.

May God bless our Priests in abundance as they live the penance for the sins of a few.  May God give them the strength, resources, desire, courage and support they need to bring about the kingdom of God in his hostile environment.  May the actions of many good Priests speak louder than the words from our media.  And may God bless the people who have been hurt, the people whose minds need to be educated and the people whose hearts need to be softened.

@drwho13: You left your vocation because you felt uncomfortable? How cowardly.

THANK YOU!!

Because of the timeline of the abuse we know about (and I’m sure there’s a lot more we _don’t_ know about), and because of the nature of the cover up that we know about, it is clear that more than one pope was aware of the situation.

It is also ridiculous to think that these priests were molesting children in the ways they were molesting them, for the length of time they were molesting them, in the number of parishes each of them perpetrated their crimes in, and in spite of the fact parents were filing complaints against them without the knowledge of at least some of their priest associates, yet these supposedly “good” priests remained silent out of obedience to a hierarchy of men.

I condemn the specific people involved, and I condemn those who use their influence to whitewash this hideous evil in the Church rather than to call for justice. The hierarchy of the Church and certain Catholic lay people, such as the author of this blog, have a proven track record of placing the image of an institution over the safety of children.

If you want to justify the Ratigan/Finn situation, knock yourself out. I know what that is, and I’m not afraid to call it what it is just to score points with very earthly, arrogant men.

God tells us what to do when the innocent are being harmed. Whinging, whining, being a crybaby, pointing fingers, making excuses and deflecting blame ain’t on that list.

@Kevin

Also, you are confusing sin and crime. Yes, what those evil men did and continue to do is sinful. They are also crimes. That the Church chose to look the other way and aid and abet the most heinous of crimes is the issue here.

You can dicker about sin and severity of sin all you want, but the law is the law and no man in this country is above the law.

The Church cannot flout the law.

I hope Finn does jail time and finds out what it’s like to be a sex offender in the general population of a high security prison. Then he’ll know what it feels like for a small child to be penetrated by an adult male. That’s true justice and every single abusing priest and every single bishop, Cardinal & Pope who had any part in covering up those crimes deserves exactly that justice. Maybe then they’ll finally get it. Maybe. I still wouldn’t count on it, though.

I don’t know if it’s been said here already, but there is a lot of abuse perpetrated by women too - especially in public schools - that is not taken as seriously. Men are demonised over and over in the media while women get a pass. This is wrong.

http://femalesexoffenders.com/fso/

Where is the fair and balanced coverage for this? We have got to the point in this society where a man can’t take his own daughter to a public park without being given the stink eye from soccer moms.

cmsc your hatred of the Church is clear but I’m not sure whether you have been hurt personally, know someone who has, or are just rightfully offended at the abuse of children at the hands of someone who should have their safety and well being as their highest regard. Either way I apologize for the Church (for abusive priests - no one is or can justify their actions and for bishops and Church hierarchy - who should have exercised more diligence and erred on the side of over action rather than inaction in defense of children). All of these things we as Catholics are aware of, admit, and are remorseful of! What I think most of us would like to see is more of a fair shake in the media. Honestly the incessant attacks on the Church while ignoring the rest belies the storyline that they are trying to protect children. IF they truly want to protect children then be CONSISTENT and call everyone out. That would make every child more safe and put the light squarely where it needs to be. Our society has a problem that unfortunately is also present in the Catholic Church. The bishops failed to understand the recidivism or persistence of this form of sin. No excuses but was anyone doing a better job dealing with these issues? They sent the abusive priests to psychiatrists, counselors, and other “professionals”. They tried to protect the identity and innocence of the victims. But frankly, they were simply unprepared to deal with this type of issue.

cmsc - I’m curious; do you go onto Protestant sites, or the sites of Orthodox Jews, and rant and rail about the cover-up of sexual abuse that’s happened in those denominations as well? (References: www.reformation.com, www.stopbaptistpredators.org, http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=99913807).

Child abuse is a human nature problem, not a Catholic problem. Yes, Catholics have anger toward the priests and bishops who grievously sinned when they abused or covered up the abuse - just as the other disciples and followers of Jesus no doubt had anger toward one of the Apostles for betraying Jesus. However, we won’t leave Peter because of Judas.

Might I suggest that you stop swallowing the alleged “facts” spoon-fed to you by the media and other anti-Catholics, and start thinking for yourself? This is a good starting point: http://www.religioustolerance.org/clergy_sex6.htm

If you ask me the public school system is the biggest child offender there is. The material they use for “sex education” and the age at which they start shoving it down these youngsters’ throats is pornographic, sadistic, and abusive to the innocence of childhood. These children don’t need to learn about bestiality and homosexuality. They don’t need to learn most of the garbage fed to them under the title of “sex education”. These children are not taught that they are wonderfully made and worth waiting for. They are not taught Truth. What is more abusive to a child than stealing their innocence? When you steal their innocence you have committed the first step towards opening that child to sexual abuse. The first step is to break inhibitions. Most children that are abused are led into it gradually. Wake up people.

The Catholic sex abuse scandal is a Catholic thing and the Ratigan/Finn story is proof positive that nothing has changed. That’s the _story_. That’s what non-Catholics see and that’s why they think the way they do about the Catholic Church. If you want to fix that, fix the problem, don’t whine at people for their justifiable reaction. Whining at the world for not loving you because you got caught doing really sick, evil, criminal things is a pretty pansy-arsed reaction and only makes you look worse.

Yes, child abuse is everywhere. How is that an excuse for the cover-up?

I have my own facts, thank you, from my own experiences. I won’t be spoon fed propaganda by Catholics with an agenda, thank you very much. I KNOW the truth here. I KNOW what Catholics really are. I don’t need to read about it on teh interwebs.

I agree entirely that the Catholic church is demonized far out of proportion to what is fair or intellectually honest.

It sounds like the school you referenced was unusually lackadaisical about security.  In my experience, with the several schools my kids have attended, the opposite is true—they have all been borderline hysterical and treat all non-staff adults on campus with suspicion and almost hostility. 

But I disagree with some of your criticisms of the school and with the assumptions on your part that they reveal.  I’m sorry, but panicking about the UPS guy using the same bathroom as the kids illustrates a lack of understanding about how almost all abusers (including the guilty priests, and others such as family members, coaches, teachers, etc) operate.  Think about what you’re proposing—that the man might’ve been thinking to himself, “Well, I was going to drop off a package, use the restroom and be on my way, but aaaaaaactually, I think I’ll fondle a child in a busy school filled with mandatory reporters in the middle of the day, with a paper trail from the package delivery.”  Not very likely.  Or the teen boy—if he were like the vast, vast majority of abusers, if he really wanted to abuse one of those kids, he wouldn’t do it in the school bathroom.  He’d do it by ingratiating himself into the family, developing a relationship with the child, and then he would use that relationship to manipulate that child into silence.

That’s not to say that random attacks don’t happen, because they do, but (despite the media’s sensationalization) they are exceedingly rare.  My concern is that by casting a pall of suspicion over EVERY male (and by the way, how would you feel if it were your teen son who mothers looked at like he was a pervert for caring for young children?) we are driving a wedge between children and adults, particularly adult men, when it’s vitally important that kids are surrounded by adults they can like, trust and emulate.  We are also teaching men that they’d better not even think about volunteering around children, for fear of the suspicion of others regarding their intentions.  That’s not a world I want for my kids.

Rather than overemphasizing the “access” aspect of child abuse prevention, or seeking to ensure that a child is NEVER EVER alone with an adult (including, logically, his/her own parents, as kids are abused by their parents all the time) it’s more effective and without the negative side effects of paranoia and suspicion when we talk, talk, talk with our kids.  Talk to them about privacy, about their ownership of their bodies, about safe and unsafe touch, and most of all about how they can and must talk with their parents or other trusted adults if there’s ever anything in their lives that makes them uncomfortable or afraid.  And in addition to all this talking, parents must discreetly watch, watch, watch.  Is there something that seems odd about that scout leader?  Does your child betray a sudden reluctance to be left alone with her piano teacher?  Doesn’t want to spend the night at a particular friend’s? Are there new sleep or behavior problems?  Paying attention to these signals, understanding that ANYONE could be an abuser but that very very few people are, getting to know everyone your child spends time with, keeping your family intact (as in no stepfathers/brothers moving in) and using parental intuition will better protect kids than trying to put up a wall between kids and men in general.  I firmly believe that if parents had had these tools back during the time when the majority of priest abuse cases were happening, they could have protected their children, rather than being completely unaware (sometimes for years on end) that their kids were being abused at the hands of a trusted priest. 

I realize that many will disagree with these comments, but please understand that I was sexually abused by a family member when I was a child, and I need both hands to count the people close to me who were either molested or raped as children.  None of those were random boogeymen sneaking into a school or creepy single guys volunteering at a church nursery; they were all family members, close friends, etc.  In my case it was a stepbrother, in my mother’s case it was her mother’s boyfriend, in my sister’s it was the father of a friend.  One of my closest friends divorced her husband when her daughter came to her to say that her father had been molesting her—the case against him at the time was dropped, and we recently saw that he’s now been charged with an additional thirteen counts of child molestation that occurred after the divorce with the children of his various girlfriends.  Another friend just found out that his father started having sex with his niece (my friend’s cousin) when she was ten years old.  No amount of school badges, background checks, or prohibitions against teenage babysitters would have protected any of these kids. 

We have to be smart, and not knee-jerk, about the strategies we use to keep kids as safe as we can.

cmsc - from the religioustolerance.org “About Us” page: “We are a multi-faith group. As of mid-2011, we consist of one Atheist, Agnostic, Christian, Wiccan and Zen Buddhist.” Does that sound like a Catholic source to you?

“The Catholic sex abuse scandal is a Catholic thing”

Well, then, you need to go tell all the Protestants and Orthodox Jews who have been sexually abused by clergy (www.reformation.com, www.stopbaptistpredators.org, http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=99913807), as well as all the public school children who have been abused by public school teachers (http://archive.newsmax.com/archives/articles/2004/4/5/01552.shtml) and tell them it’s all in their heads, because sexual abuse ONLY happens within the Catholic Church.

“and the Ratigan/Finn story is proof positive that nothing has changed.”

The Ratigan/Finn story is proof positive that human beings sin and always will.

Yes….sex abuse…the destruction of the innocence of our children through sex ed….the continual focus on celibate priesthood and religious life….

We are dealing with evil.  Pray the rosary, do penance….

@JoAnna

We all get that sex abuse happens everywhere, and, as Anonymous has pointed out, that the majority of sex abuse is perpetrated by family members. We all understand that pedophiles seek out positions in which they will have access to children. We get that pedophiles come from all walks of life. We get that any institution may have a pedophiles among their ranks and that those institutions are capable of covering up incidences of abuse.

We get it.

That it happens elsewhere does not excuse the Catholic Church’s actions over the years. What part about that do YOU not get?

The _story_—we’re talking about media coverage, remember, and what constitutes a _story_ from the media’s perspective is very specific—is that, in spite of the claims by the Church that they had created new protocols that would prevent further cover-ups and scandals, that they had better protocols to filter out problem priests, that they had put in place protocols for reporting potential abuse, they were still engaging in the same-old same-old.

That’s the _story_. That’s why no one trusts or believes the Catholic hierarchy on this topic. That’s why the media goes after the Church. It is the Church’s own and continued hypocrisy, arrogance and dishonesty that garners them greater scrutiny.

Excusing the sexual crimes of men against children by saying people will always sin is exactly why things will never change in the Church and why the media will continue to bend over backwards to target them.

csmc - I was responding to your assertion that sexual abuse only happens in the Catholic Church. As you can see by my references, it does not.

Will you please acknowledge that ReligiousTolerance.org is not “Catholic progaganda,” and take some time to acquaint yourself with the actual facts? It’s incredible irony that you accuse Catholics of being brainwashed, et al when you’re really no different. Once again: http://www.religioustolerance.org/clergy_sex6.htm

You’re also incorrect that acknowledging that people sin “excuses” sexual abuse. It does not. I hope all sexual abusers, regardless of religious affiliation, are arrested, charged, and prosecuted to the full extent of civil law, and I hope they face penalty and censure in their religious denominations (if any) as well; the same with those who have covered up said abuse.

@JoAnna

I never asserted sex abuse only happens in the Catholic Church.

What I said was the _CATHOLIC_ sex abuse scandal is a Catholic thing.

Big difference.

csmc - Sorry but I think it is YOU who don’t get it. I don’t know your motives but people here have been very tolerant of your attacks on the Church, on the author, and on other posters. You are denying the plain facts and are persistent in condemning the Church and others who you don’t even know. I doubt these attacks give you a sense of healing but I see them as an indication of your suffering. Again, I’m sorry for your pain but the Church as a body didn’t do this to you. It was sinful men who have faults like everyone else who did this. Remember that God will ultimately be their judge and I’m certain that their suffering will be great. In the meantime try to see your pain for what it is and try to both receive and give mercy to those who need it. The fact that priests fail is tragic but it should also be forgivable. When you find the ability to forgive those who offend you it is YOU who will be healed. I pray you do.

The Catholic Church has the best policies for dealing with immorality -it’s called dogma and morals. Also, the Roman Church has long had modernized strict disciplinary procedures for dealing with certain issues (e.g,. the 1961 circular to the world’s bishops of Cardinal Ottaviani) the problem was that many bishops during the past 40 years (or more) ignored these and turned a blind eye to their episcopal duty.

It should be further noted that most cases that have been depicted in the media (both secular and Catholic) as “pedophilia” were not because they were dealing with boys who had matured to puberty - and that meets the definition of homosexuality -a terrible scourge which most of the bishops have also refused to properly address.

What “plain facts” am I denying?

I condemn child abuse, I condemn insitutions that cover up child abuse, and I condemn individuals who pander to institutions that cover up child abuse. If that makes me a bad person in your eyes, what does that say about you?

The Church, as an _institution_, is responsible for their actions. Christ’s Church, as in the Body of His followers, has nothing to do with the very human, very earthly _institution_ that is the Catholic Church. Two separate things.

Raping children isn’t “priests failing”. It’s not just sinful men who sin “like everyone else”. Child rape is not exactly the same sin as impatience or laziness. That you equate them is pretty disgusting, AAMOF, but at least I know what you are now. Someone who things raping an eight year old girl is no biggie. Just a little bit of everyday sinfulness. Oopsies! Your bad… /rolleyes. Right.

Aaaaand of course, now we have the “homosexual” agenda thing…it’s a “homosexual” problem…it was those naughty adolescent boys flirting with the priests…

God, but you people make me sick. NO child is safe near a Catholic. No child.

Rape is rape is rape. It’s not ever anything else. Oh, wait, unless you’re a Catholic priest…then it’s just a bit of everyday, run-of-the-mill sinfulness…it’s the gays’ fault…it’s the victims’ fault…it’s a public relations problem…it’s not fair…wahwahwah…

You are the most hideously evil people to walk the planet and there is a very special place in hell reserved for the lot of you.

Save your stupid excuses for God. Run them by Him. See how that works out for you.

It’s probably worth considering that women are also convicted of sexually abusing children - not just men. So female teachers as well as male teachers must be CRB checked.

csmc, if you are so anti-catholic, and athiest(then if not athiest then your apparently not a religious loving christian), why are you on the catholic register website?  I think you were molested as a child and is angry at life.  While i will not jump to the conclusion that the whole world is after the catholic church, i will say some people like you who run the media and news coverage and there so mission in life is to destroy the catholic church and they will lie, and believe anything to do that.  I hate people that want to start trouble, let us live our lives and we can let you live you hateful angry life.

@csmc

Are you kidding me? Listen to what these people are saying. Not a single one is defending the people involved in the abuses. It’s messed up. Sinful, unlawful, everything that you’re saying is right about the abusers. Any Catholic that is and has been involved in these horrendous acts deserves to be punished under the law.

If you’re going to be flat out illogical and throw out mass generalizations against the Catholic Church, at least comprehend what people are telling you.

csmc - “What I said was the _CATHOLIC_ sex abuse scandal is a Catholic thing.”

Uh… okay. And the Baptist abuse scandal is a Baptist thing, and the Lutheran abuse scandal is a Lutheran thing, and the public school abuse scandal is a public school thing, etc. I don’t get your point.

Regarding the other poster’s point about homosexuality being a root cause, this is well known. Again, from ReligiousTolerance.org (http://www.religioustolerance.org/clergy_sex6a.htm):

“The vast majority of cases appears to be by abusive ephebophiles—adults sexually attracted to post-pubertal adolescents. This often takes the form of sexual activity by homosexual priests: ‘...with young seminarians or 16- or 17-year-old boys. While such homosexual activities with minors are criminal offenses—and immoral—they are certainly not examples of pedophilia or child molestation.’”

I run the media? Awesome!

Is the NC Register site for Catholics only? I thought it was part of this “new evangelization” you’re all so high on…which is it?

Yes, I was abused by a Catholic priest. Yes, I’m angry. Livid. Furious. I will never stop being those things. I will blame the Catholic Church ‘til the day I die and beyond, because they are to blame. I wasn’t that priest’s first victim, nor was I his last. And that IS the Church’s fault, no matter how hard they try to wiggle out of responsibility, and no matter how hard you people try to make excuses for them. It is what it is, they did it, they’re responsible, and people like Fulwiler and those who make excuses for the Church are part of the problem, which is what makes their whining about the fallout so particularly hypocritical.

csmc - “And that IS the Church’s fault, no matter how hard they try to wiggle out of responsibility, and no matter how hard you people try to make excuses for them.”

I’m so very sorry you were abused, and that the adults around you did not do what they should have to protect you and others. I hope your abuser and any accomplices were prosecuted and convicted, and justly punished.

But how has your anger towards the Church helped you? It seems to be choking you.

@SJ

No, I’m not kidding. Whining about how “the media” doesn’t write enough glowing stories about priests and how fab they are all the time is part of why the media thinks you’re all a pack of stinking hypocrites.

When Catholics themselves start treating the Catholic sex abuse scandal with the seriousness it calls for, then maybe the rest of the world will believe them when they say that the majority of priests are good people.

Right now, what is clear is that we still have abusive priests and we still have bishops who break the law and cover up for them. Look at the Ratigan/Finn (and let’s not forget Murphy…) situation—the general Catholic response is that it’s unfair to Finn, how he’s such a great guy, blahblahblah. When the world sees that, how can you blame them for thinking you’re all a bunch of crackheads?

My anger towards the Church is what keeps me alive, JoAnna. I will NOT “just get over it”, as one Catholic put it. I will not just live and let live, or forgive and forget. I know that’s what the Church wants—for all victims to remain silent, to go away. I will not. Just like the Jews will never forget the Holocaust, I and other victims will never forget the evil that is the Catholic Church.

For enness:  The sins of the fathers will be visited upon the seventh generation.  Why?  (Well, I’m Catholic and don’t believe in Hindu karma.)  But, we are reaping what others have sown.  St. Paul told us to go one bearing each others burdens.  In a sense, the burden of two millennia of the Church’s individual and collective sins will be carried by all of us.  Ms. Fulwiler is a Catholic now.  She needs to ‘man up’ and pick up her own load of collective guilt like the rest of us.  The dead, the Church Suffering, is playing its part in ‘paying off’ the sins of themselves and the whole Church.  We’re in this mess together. We all must ‘hug the cactus’ of human sinfulness and its consequences. Obviously, it would be great if we could all just go forth and sin no more.  Not gonna happen.  We will continue to have corrupt priests, nuns, bishops, and a few popes—though lately we’ve been on a string of really good ones (not a Borgia among ‘em)—until Christ returns.  That’s because perfection will never be our lot in this life.  For Ms. Fulwiler:  Why not re-visit your own experience of the indifference of the public schools by taking the story to outsider journalists who might be interested in telling the truth about violence and damage in our public schools and the corruption of officials who are supposed to do something about it.  Don’t leave this in the Catholic media ghetto.  Violence and violation are commonplace in many public schools.  The perpetrators are not just adults, but also the children themselves.  It is horrifying.  And, it’s happening in the greatest country in the world.  That’s a story, if you ask me.  Why not report it?

A READING OF THE ARTICLE MAKES ME THINK THAT THE AMERICAN OR EVEN WESTERN SOCIETY HAS LOST ALL BALANCE IN SEXUAL MORALITY. HOW CAN ONE THINK THAT ONE WHO GOES TO LEAD CHILDREN TO THE BATHROOM WILL ABUSE THEM . THERE WILL ALWAYS BE BAD PEOPLE AND SUCH SINS, BUT DO NOT GENERALISE AND DO NOT PRESUME THAT ALL ARE BAD.  CAN WE NOT GIVE SUITABLE ADVICES TO OUR CHILDREN AND BRING THEM UP MORALLY STRONG ?

csmc - if anger is keeping you alive, that is truly tragic. I wish you could recognize that the evil isn’t the Church itself, but rather the sin of the individuals that harmed you.

“I know that’s what the Church wants—for all victims to remain silent, to go away.”

That’s funny, I’ve never heard a single member of the Church say such a thing. In fact, these are Pope Benedict XVI’s sentiments: “Moved and deeply shaken by the sufferings of the victims, the Holy Father expressed his deep compassion and regret over all that was done to them and their families. He assured the people present that those in positions of responsibility in the Church are seriously concerned to deal with all crimes of abuse and are committed to the promotion of effective measures for the protection of children and young people. Pope Benedict XVI is close to the victims and he expresses the hope that the merciful God, Creator and Redeemer of all mankind, may heal the wounds of the victims and grant them inner peace.” (http://www.ncregister.com/blog/pope-meets-german-abuse-victims/)

Regarding this: “the general Catholic response is that it’s unfair to Finn, how he’s such a great guy, blahblahblah.”

That’s funny, because every single response I’ve seen has been along these lines: “Bp. Finn and Msgr. Murphy must be complete imbeciles to have handled this situation with Ratigan as poorly as they did. What the hell were they thinking?!”

I’ve yet to see/hear any Catholic condone or praise Finn or Murphy’s actions.

csmc:

The Jews should never forget the Holocaust.  But I don’t believe that anger towards Germans is what keeps (or kept) them alive.  Nor do I believe that the Jews (if it is proper to generalize) collectively blamed the German nation or failed to recognize those Germans who opposed the evil in their midst.

What I don’t think you understand is that you’re making needless enemies in your quest for retribution.

Trust me, I take the situation very seriously, and whether you believe it or not, a lot of the Catholics posting here take it seriously as well. What do you suggest we do? If there was more I could do, I would do it. If I had the name of every single priest who has an abuser, I’d hand it over to civil authorities in a heartbeat.

The unfortunate thing about these types of crimes is that I don’t have that magic list, and these types of crimes happen way before they surface publicly. The only thing I can do right now is voice my opinion against it, and take action if I see something suspicious. Are you saying we should condemn every priest regardless if they’ve done anything or not? That’s not justice at all. You would be condemning many innocent people.

All of that being said, I think the issue described in this article and the issue that you’re describing are only related in topic, and not necessarily in content. Just as there are priests doing bad things, there are also different priests doing good things. Why not post the good things? We’re not saying the bad things should go away, or that the bad things don’t matter, just that there are good priests and bad priests, and not only bad priests. The issue you’re bringing up is that the Catholic Church is not doing enough to stop these kinds of abuses. Like I said earlier, unfortunately the crimes usually happen before something is or can be done about them. Once they do happen, however, I agree that the Catholic Church needs a more efficient, permanent way of handling things.

In regards to the doings of the Church heirarchy, there is very little that lay Catholics can do. Unless, of course, more morally solid individuals who want to squash this problem just as much as you and I do, become priests to permanently change the morality of our priests from the inside out. (Not saying you should become a priest…just that it’s not the system that needs changing, but the flawed humans within the system that need changing.) And in that regard, it is not a bad thing to report and support priests doing good things.

Hope all that makes sense to you. I am so sorry for your suffering and I will pray for you, your healing, and the healing of all involved in this tragedy.

@cmsc - I will pray for you - hard. 

Also, to mike - Thanks for noting the ‘principal’ correction.  I was going to do the same.  But you may want to check your spelling on: nunder, alledgedly, imagies, ove, and forgivness.
I’m not a college teacher.  :-)

Jen, there’s a great write up in the book “Godless’ by Ann Coulter on this topic.  Media= the greatest anti-catholic out there. Just look at all the false reports yesterday on the ‘letter’ by a small office & they blew it up to say the Pope, Himself, spoke of it ex cathedra haha.  Give the media an inch & it’ll take the entire generation with them.  The new young priests coming up will be able to take care of this situation & when hopefully the bishops learnt their lesson. 

This too shall pass even with the hardest of hearts

Visit the Kansas City Star website and take a quick spin through their commentary/letters section. There’s plenty of support for Finn, and plenty of Catholics claiming it’s unfair to hold him accountable for his actions.

The Catholic abuse scandal includes an organizational conspiracy on the part of the Church. That goes beyond “just some individuals”. The Church, as an institution, is responsible for the scandal.

No one cares what Pope Whosit or Bishop Whatsit has to SAY about the scandal anymore. Words are cheap. Actions are everything. Finn, through his actions, shows the world what the Church really thinks and does.

“Visit the Kansas City Star website and take a quick spin through their commentary/letters section…”

I would imagine there’s also plenty of condemnation. Likewise, I invite you to take a spin through the Catholic blogosphere where you can see that the vast majority of Catholics are angry and dismayed at Bp. Finn’s negligence in this matter.

“The Catholic abuse scandal includes an organizational conspiracy on the part of the Church. That goes beyond ‘just some individuals’. The Church, as an institution, is responsible for the scandal. “

So you believe that free will does not exists and that the Pope is some kind of Borg Queen who controls the actions of the clergy through some kind of hive mind? What is your proof of this?

“Finn, through his actions, shows the world what the Church really thinks and does.”

Why do you take the actions of a single individual and claim that they represent the entire Church? Would it be fair for me to take your hatred and slander, and claim that you are representative of what all non-Catholics think and do?

About the bad math of the 39,341% higher rates, that’s only about 400 times higher. There are about 50000 times more Catholics than Society for Krishna Consciousness people, so there should be 50000 times more stories about Catholic sex abuse! It’s the biggest group so it gets reported on the most. If anything, the statistics show that the media has something against the Krishna Consciousness people!

@ csmc - I am so sorry that you were abused.  We will ask God for healing for you and justice for the perpetrator.

When I think about the bulk of the abuse… I think of the mid to late 1970s.  There was a priest at our parish who was beyond creepy and was accused of mistreatment of the young boys in our church and school.  I was quite young, so no one shared details with me about the actual incidents… but here is what happened in my parish:

My dad was on the parish council with several other men.  They took what knew and made an appointment with the archbishop.  It was a six-hour round trip, there and back to the city that housed the Diocesan offices.  When the men told the bishop about what was going on - the first question he asked was whether the collections were suffering.  My dad was absolutely livid!!  After that, my dad and the other men took a lot of heat for going against the priest, standing up to the priest.  But my dad was a good strong, Catholic man who stood up for what was right. 
At the time, the bishop said they reassign the priest and they did.  and of course you can guess that he went on to abuse others in subsequent parishes. 
but you must understand a few things…  at that time… it was hugely frowned upon to go over someone’s head and directly to a bishop.  Beyond the bishop, where could you go?  There was no internet… you couldn’t really look up the phone number to the Vatican.  The bishops didn’t reveal the scandals to those higher up… they certainly kept the information from Cardinals and the Pope.

People like my dad and the men who fought with him… fully expected something to be done.  They had to reason to suspect that the priest hadn’t received treatment or counseling or punishment!  They didn’t even know that the same priest kept getting moved around until finally his reputation followed and preceded him. Perhaps my dad and the other councilmen didn’t understand that someone like you expected them to fight it all the way up the hierarchy.  They truly believed that the church would address the problem.
And yes… perhaps they are guilty of sitting back and breathing a sigh of relief once the problem that impacted them immediately was removed. 

I just want you know that Catholics did (and continue to ) stand up.  And now, we know better that we can’t stop with just one guy in charge. But please don’t blame all Catholics for the cover-up.  My own father was a whistle-blower—- and I will never be ashamed that he didn’t do more. (sure, in retrospect we know better- and he probably wished he had)  He did what he was supposed to do to protect the people around him.  I am SO PROUD of my dad.

And I know this won’t be popular… but where were YOUR people.  Who should have fought for your, but didn’t?  have you asked them why they didn’t?  Where was that priest before he came to your parish.  Go interrogate the people who didn’t report him or the bishop who didn’t listen.  Don’t vilify the entire Catholic church for the failings of a few.

School situations are inherantly unsafe.  I have heard stories of girls being raped by boys only a few years older.  I personally know a man who was sexually abused by older boys in the locker room when he was a small child.  These cases are so seldom reported too.  But I have to disagree that people would be concerned about the bathroom situation in a church.  I don’t think they would care there either.  While the church is doing it’s best to educate people on safe practices and screen out potential predators from becoming priest, I’m afraid I’ll have to join the rest of the world in disdain for the way the church has handled previous cases (if a guy is a pedophile, he should be kept away from kids not just moved to a different church) and I feel the church has broken trust in this way.  If priests are just as likely as secular men to be pedophiles that is not good enough.  That’s evidence that something is very very wrong.  These are men who represent Christ as a profession.  I think Jesus would show up with a whip not an order to relocate.

@csmc - your pain is evident. It makes me hurt for you. Please consider this: If you adhere to the teaching of Jesus, and you know the one prayer that he taught us, the Our Father, remember that we are promised exactly as much mercy as we extend to others. “Forgive us our trespasses (debts) as we forgive those who trespass against us (our debtors).”  If we hold on to our anger and hurts, even when it seems completely justifiable and reasonable, it only hurts ourselves. Demanding justice and reasonable punishment is fine, but mercy and forgiveness are essential. If you were in the wrong, you would hope for mercy, wouldn’t you?  Please pray on this.

“The buck stops here” is a simple and clear instruction as to where the blame ultimately rests and, by extension, what has to happen.  The abuses took place, not just in the USA but in countries throughout the world and the fact that ‘others’ were ‘just as bad’ or even ‘worse’ is neither excuse nor explanation.  In business, circumstances such as the mishandling of offending priests and other religious right up to the point of lying about it would result in dismissal.  And so it should be in the Church if we are to even begin to put this horror behind us.  So, off with their heads.  No cushy posts at the Vatican and no quiet retirements.  Clear and PUBLIC dismissal is required and very much needed.

Yes, child abuse is a universal problem. Do we as catholic’s rationalize the abuse within the church because of statistic’s ? Although the USCCB would like to, it is very difficult to just blurt out stat’s without realizing that these are men who have been under intense supervision for 6-8 years or longer.

The bottom line is that it is hard to accept a catholic priest as a child abuser; regardless of what the Hare Krishna’s have done, which is a red herring arguement.

The church needs real men who will not bow down to political correctness and general wussification.

Funny how in his/her rush to condemn both the author and the Catholic Church,  csmc has completely ignored the fact that the public school in question refuses to enact basic safety protections that - gasp - even the Catholic Church in her area has the sense to put into place.  What could be behind such willful acceptance of endangerment, just to justify a rant against the Church?  Hmmm.

Just because you accuse others of being intolerant and homophobic, csmc, doesn’t mean you’re not a bigot.

My best friend in high school was molested by her nanny’s husband when she was a small child.  She never told on him to protect her nanny whom she loved.  Jennifer hits the nail on the head.  It isn’t the priests I’m worried about (though I ache for so many who suffer for the sins of the few).  People love to talk about the sins of priests so they don’t have to face their OWN sin. We now live in a “pornified” culture.  How many more people must lose their innocence because they were not protected?  The enemy of sexual purity now has the internet and “smart phones” to gain access to our children.  We must talk, talk and keep talking to our children.  Most of all we need to “walk the walk” because children can’t be fooled by duplicity.  And just wait, now that we have gay “marriage,” be on the look-out, around the corner, for those that say that sex with children is “natural” and always has been.  Sexual impurity is a plague of such magnitude, that it hasn’t even dawned upon us how bad it has really gotten.  Read the statistics on addiction.  “The Theology of the Body” is the antidote.

Do keep a record of your complaint to the school and responses you got so in the event something does happen, you’ve got proof that you did voice your concerns.  If other parents want to do the same thing, they should be free to do so.

Men? With a freaking “*” men?

I’m with you on this article, but what about the women? Are we seriously this blind?

Anonymous for this one, I think you’ve made the most reasonable, intelligent comment.

@csmcisabigot (oh, aren’t you SOOOOO clever—what are you, 12?):

What school in question? This is another of Fulwiler’s infamous maybe-it-really-happened/maybe-it’s-just-embellishment-for-the-sake-of-the-blog stories she’s famous for. I suppose I could call around the various Austin suburban school systems and see if this ever actually happened, but I doubt it did, at least not as she describes it.

As usual, it’s all filtered through Fulwiler’s eyes. She saw something, she interpreted it as such-and-such, therefore such-and-such is now fact. We don’t really have the whole story.

I haven’t accused anyone of being intolerant or homophobic. You’re quite tolerant—of child abusers, anyway. That the Church has repeatedly blamed the sex abuse scandal on “homosexuality” is a well-published fact, and published by the likes of the NC Register. That’s not me. That’s you. _I_ don’t blame the sex scandal on “homosexuality” (which doesn’t even mean anything, anyway). Why would I? Doesn’t even make sense as far as I’m concerned.

Fulwiler qualifies her accusations with “not that are enforced anyway”. She doesn’t even claim that these precautions aren’t on the books. She just says, in the few incidents she witnessed, they weren’t being enforced. Yet the thing she’s griping about stems from the FACT that the protocols the Church supposedly had in place to prevent further abuse were CLEARLY not enforced in the Ratigan/Finn case, even though they were on the books.

How hypocritical can you get? Don’t answer…that’s rhetorical…the world is quite aware that your hypocrisy knows no bounds. Believe me. You have proved THAT to them over and over and over again.

I read the story and partially agree with it.  Yes…if her complaint substituted Catholic priest for the various males in the previous complaint, it would have drawn more attention.  But unfair media coverage?  I don’t think so and here’s why.  Unfortunatley, the media wants sensationalism.  And one of the media’s formula’s for that is to report people we “trust” doing things we trust them NOT to do.  So in the news female teachers and their male student lovers get headlines.  Boy Scout leaders molesting their scouts gets attention.  Cops abusing their authority against unarmed citizens gets coverage.  And finally, priests molesting male children.  It’s unfortunate that the vast majority of Chatholic priests who are doing God’s work in the manner we’d expect are tainted by the few who commit these crimes.  BUT…instead of handling it by removing these priests, various levels of Catholic leadership were exposed as trying to cover up these crimes.  I think it’s the cover up that’s made Catholics priests the media targets they are now.

ref your comment:“rate is closer to five percent, which would be higher than that of, say, male schoolteachers.”

See this recent article from the UK relating to abusive teachers in the state school system:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/education/educationnews/8828589/Teachers-lives-ruined-by-false-allegations-warns-minister.html

Note how the spin is with respect to false allegations - I think it would be entirely different if it was about Catholics.

But if we look at the article more closely it indicates that 56% of over 12000 allegations in a year are credible.  When we match this against the number of male teachers in the state school system and the fact that abuse is about 80% perpetuated by males, then we are in fact at around 5%.

Except that this is 5% per year.  The annual credible annual allegation rate for clerical abuse is way lower than this even given decades for incidents to be reported.

Once you swallow the story of an invisible man with superpowers who lives in the sky, kills people over such issues as underwear and diet, who impregnates a human to give birth to himself, so he can have that mortal body tortured to death to ensure we don’t all spend eternity in a barbecue, you will swallow ANYTHING.

And unfortunately, Catholic altar boys frequently do. Teaching children to distrust the evidence of their senses and bow to an imaginary being is the most basic betrayal of human rights, and is the foundation for further atrocities later in life.

This is nothing but a rehash of Fulwiler’s earlier blog ranting about how the the scandals have only “increased” her faith.  Hogwash.  This title says “For the Children’s Sake, these Stereotypes about Priests Must Stop.”
???  What about for the sake of adults as well?

Get over yourself, Fulwiler.  Why not take aim at those concealing all these problems —the beloved Bishops.  By now, it is beyond belief to accept that our Bishops are in a state of shock concerning their diocesean priests.  They did nothing but transfer them instead of report them to law enforcement.  And yes, whether it’s 1% or 10%, the die casts an unfair light upon the not guilty —but the Bishops are responsible for this.  Apparently you (Fulwiler) didn’t learn anything from your other blog about pointing fingers at School Teachers, Scout Leaders, Little League Coaches or Protestant Pastors.  Pointing your finger at others to look at their record does not remove the plank in the eye of our own Bishops.  Every Catholic has the duty and the right to be totally outraged at those Bishops who concealed all these digusting crimes.  These are the same men who hold their hand out so you can kiss their ring in the cathedral.

Yes, but priests should be held to a higher standard than male teachers or Hare Krishnas. Our priests minister “in persona Christi” and teachers and pagans do not.

I’m growing weary of this tired argument: “Yeah, but other demographics molest children at a greater rate than Catholic priests.”

Catholic priests are supposed to be different, much different. We rightly hold priests to a much higher standard.

The mouths and hands of priest transubstantiate bread into Christ. Those hands should be pure and venerable, not defiled.

Reality check:

Last month my 12-year-old was “molested” in the bedroom he shares with two younger brothers, and at our dining room table. 

My husband and I went to click on the morning mass readings on my computer.  My son had left in a hurry for school.  His “facebook” page was up.  There was a photo of a couple having sex (no parts showing) and a risque caption.  This had been posted by my nephew, who was HOMESCHOOLED most of his life.

Later that evening, still a little shook up, it suddenly occurred to me to ask my husband if he could access pornography on his “itouch”.  My husband immediately went to his room, and checked the “history” which revealed that he had indeed accessed XXX photos.

We talked to our son with a lot of sensitivity, and took the opportunity to elevate the subject to a much higher level, but he never should have seen such things. Pornography is a destroyer of people, marriages and families.  Children who have seen it are at risk for far worse things.

Between the internet, the music on the radio, and the movies they eventually see, our children are SURROUNDED.  Molesting priests are the least of my worries.

Lector-At-Mass,

I think this is a back-pedal, or a do-over of that post (which was appalling—Jesus wants the little children to be raped so I can grow in holiness! Ugh).

The truly telling moment is when she begrudgingly includes the disclaimer that child abuse is a crime against humanity. She STILL can’t bring herself to see the victims of priest abuse as individual human beings, each created and loved by the same God she claims she believes in, each with his or her own story, each who has experienced a lifetime of very real suffering as a result of the abuse perpetrated against them.

Fulwiler should be forced to study the various grand jury reports from dioceses around the country, especially Philadelphia. She should sit and watch The Silence(http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/the-silence/?utm_campaign=TheSilence&utm_medium=GoogleAds&utm_source=Keyword#ixzz1JtZPKlBj). Not that I think it would help humanize any of the victims to her. I don’t think she’s capable of seeing other people as human beings.

csmc - “Jesus wants the little children to be raped so I can grow in holiness!”

A link, please, to the post where you got this quotation.

Yes, there are defenders of the Bishop, including professors at Catholic colleges..
http://www.kansascity.com/2011/10/18/3215526/the-charges-against-bishop-finn.html#storylink=misearch

Mike - Dr. Kessler says the charges should be dropped; he did not say that Bp. Finn was innocent of any wrongdoing: “Bishop Finn already apologized a number of times for his poor administrative judgment involving the supervision of one of his priests, Father Shawn Ratigan.”

I happen to disagree with Dr. Kessler regarding the charges, which I think are fair and should stand, but the fact remains that he is not defending the bishop’s actions (which were, in his own words, poor) but rather he is questioning the legal charges against the bishop.

JoAnna, it’s my sarcastic paraphrase of Fulwiler’s last blog post on this topic. You’re not the brightest bulb on the porch, are ya?

So, Carl, that other organizations may or may not have a higher incidence of child abuse than the Catholic Church makes it okay for Catholic priests to molest kids? And what about the cover-up? What organization has the same history of covering up a widespread sex abuse problem as the Catholic Church? We’re talking dioceses across this country and Europe, and spanning decades and decades (that we know of—obviously this was going on before we have records we can backtrack through).

Excuses, excuses. “The protestants do it too, so it’s okay if the Catholics do it”.

And you people are supposedly parents. I can imagine what a spectacular job you’re all doing on that front if this is your philosophy.

Carl writes:  “
For all of you who keep harking Catholic abuse.  Many studies including a recent one from a non-Catholic from Univ Pa, show that the following all have a higher PERCENTAGE of abuse than Catholic priests and religious combined; Protesant clery, school teachers/officials, scout leaders, and fathers.”

Apparently, Carl finds grace in having a lower percentage redeems and justifies the Bishops (these “holy men of God”) since they are not as bad as others in the secular world.

Why has there not been an investigation on HOW this happened? What was going on in the seminaries and nothing done about it? The not telling us the Cause.

The present Priest must come forward and put a complete end to this abuse after all it was their brethern who caused this and they must accept and start moving forward and preach it from the pulpits. We all need to ask for forgiveness from God and GOOD can come from this. We need to pray (The Rosary Daily)to Mary the Mother of Priest to help us to move forward and get back to the true Magisterium and Rubrics of the Catholic Church We have not only lost the priest but a lot of Catholic to what is happening in the Church. Remember we need Tradition to come back to the Catholic Church.

This is a very interesting thread. I do not know of the case referenced here, but here are my observations from a distance:

CSMC is right that there has been and still is a BIG problem with the Catholic hierarchy’s response to the problem of sexual abuse.

I work in documentary television and have worked in current affairs shows for Canada’ national broadcaster. They have been pretty even-handed in uncovering abuse by various agencies responsible for the well-being of children, including Childrens’ Aid Societies and lately Boy Scouts of Canada. There has been extensive coverage of abuse perpetrated by hockey coaches and others in positions of power. I was personally involved in one piece about a priest who abused a huge number of girls in Southern Ontario and who died in jail a few years ago. When I was telephone people for my research, I was horrified that people didn’t want to provide photos for the piece because they didn’t want to bring shame onto their community. This was after the man had gone to jail.

Part of the piece dealt with the fact that several priests have fled to Malta, where they are being protected by the Church there, and won’t be extradited to face trial.

For an institution that is meant to be a moral leader (or THE moral leader) this is obviously inexcusable. The problem is that when priests have been given such huge respect and access by virtue of their positions, it is the institution that gives them that respect that must take responsibility for the crimes they commit.

As for schools, a personal reflection: my daughter’s school had a man enter the building at pick-up time and tried to assault a girl in the bathroom. The girl screamed, the assailant fled and was tackled by a bus driver and a father. He was immediately arrested. The next day the child was keen to go back to school.

Why was she not traumatized? a) she felt free to scream; b) the crime was immediately accepted and c) the man was dealt with as a criminal.

Shame and secrecy are the worst responses to the abuse of someone.

I surmise that csmc was not believed, or didn’t trust him/herself, or didn’t have an adult trustworthy enough to confide in. What a priest did was a crime, but the community who doesn’t protect children adequately is also guilty.

Best, KHoward.

csmc - then provide a link to the article in question, because I regularly read her articles and I don’t recall one where she stated that “Jesus wants the little children to be raped so [she] can grow in holiness”. I’d like to read the article myself to see where she said or even inferred such a thing. Or you could provide the text from the article where you feel she said that.

KHoward - “What a priest did was a crime, but the community who doesn’t protect children adequately is also guilty.” Well said.

By the way, regarding the priest you fled to Malta, the reason he hasn’t been extradited to Canada is because he’s facing criminal charges in Malta, and the authorities there won’t approve the extradition request until that case has been resolved. (Source:http://www.timesofmalta.com/articles/view/20110807/local/Abuse-priest-still-facing-Canada-charges.379057)

I don’t feel like re-typing my whole thing

http://www.ncregister.com/blog/why-the-scandals-increased-my-faith-in-the-church/

And, for the _second_ time, it is not a quote, I never claimed it was a quote, never put quotation marks around it. I explained the sentence was MY sarcastic take on HER article, yet you continue to claim I am quoting her from her own blog. Stop it.

@csmc, do you have your pile of stones ready?

http://www.ncregister.com/blog/why-the-scandals-increased-my-faith-in-the-church

No, Anna Lisa. I have a Sig Sauer P238.

“that other organizations may or may not have a higher incidence of child abuse than the Catholic Church makes it okay for Catholic priests to molest kids?”

Of course not. That is not what anyone is saying here.
The focus of Jen’s article was not that “others do worse so we’re fine”  Rather, she was calling out the misrepresentation that more priests are guilty of molestation than any other organization.  Moreso… that the same crime among other organizations are swept under the rug AND THAT’S NOT RIGHT! It’s not any more right, it’s not right at all!!!
Public school teachers have molested children, and then been transferred to other schools in the district to hush things up - and prevent from “ruining the poor man’s life - if this were to get out he’d never work again. sob sob.”

I absolutely understand the reason so many are indignant is because a priest is supposed to be better than that… that they should not abuse a position of authority… they’re supposed to be holy and all. 
It’s very upsetting to Catholics too. Very upsetting doesn’t begin to describe it.
But forgive us for thinking that NO ONE is supposed to abuse children - regardless of their job description or what collar they wear!  EVERYONE is supposed to know that it is wrong.  I know it’s wrong.  You know it’s wrong.
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I shared a story earlier on this thread - about my dad talking to our bishop about a pedophile priest in our parish - my dad did the right thing.  But we didn’t know that there were other cover-ups happening in other churches and other dioceses.  We only knew about the priest we knew about—and we reported him.  What more could we do at the time?  What more?!
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So I think Jennifer’s writing today ought to encourage us to open up the records of every public school district in America from 1960 to today…  and see how many teachers have been re-assigned and covered up after such an accusation…  where police were not called and children weren’t protected… not because we’re saying “if organization B did it too, it’s okay for organization A” but because so many organizations didn’t know what to do…. or who to believe… or what to believe… or who to protect… it was covered up… same as it was in many households….  (accusations that “could ruin someone’s life” - - and they didn’t know what to do)
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I tell you this problem is rampant… and quite frankly victims of teachers, scout leaders and their friend’s dad deserve justice too!!

The abuse rate is closer to 5%? I would like to know the source of that. Sexual abuse as it pertains to the clergy from my understanding ranges from homo/heterosexual pedophilia to a consensual relationship between a priest and young adult ...am I right? If so, it is important to know the figures of abuse of minors to sexual relations with a consenting adult. Those two have very different meanings in terms of the abuse issue. From what I have heard, the figure of what we would consider to be abuse as a grave crime, i.e., of children/minors/teens is at less than 2% with, repeat offenders. I wanted to bring this up because of the way it has been treated by our society.

csmc - sorry, I’m not seeing the part where she states or implies that Jesus wants the little children to be raped so [she] can grow in holiness.  Can you quote the relevant portion of the article from where you are inferring that statement?

Accepting the fact that some people are anti-Catholic just like others are anti-Jewish, etc. should be a given that can’t be changed.
However, I do think that this is part of God’s plan for the Church.  And that His plan is to encourage the hierarchy to accommodate married clergy.

You are more likely to be a target in a public school.

Reading some of these after hate filled comments makes me relieved. The world doesn’t hate the lutherans, methodists, calvinists, harri krishnas, hindus, shintos or any other group like the Catholic church. The world doesn’t even hate communists with such fervor. Nothing could be a clearer sign its the true church.

I was molested as a child over a six year period and NOT by a priest. When any child is molested it is a blatant betrayal of trust and an abuse of power.

Let us remember ALL the abused children, not just select ones.

A quick story about today. This morning, a child was raped at school. This child is beside herself; she is in shock. Who knows whether she has anyone to help her? Who knows what will become of her? Will she become promiscuous? Will she turn to drugs or try to kill herself? We don’t know. Also today, someone mentioned the fact that this child was raped. It was not outrage or concern that prompted him to point it out, but irritation with the difficulties of his own life: the media discriminates against him; he is a Catholic in a pagan world. It does not occur to him that the editor also discriminates against the girl who was raped this morning, because the media only talks about children raped on parish grounds. The man and the editor were thus preoccupied with their own agendas; around the same time the girl stammered a plea for help to her parents who didn’t believe her; she went to her bedroom to lie alone in the darkness. Later, a woman heard that the man from before had complained about public indifference to child molestation in public schools; if he had stopped there, she later thought, they might have had a worthwhile discussion: they might have talked about the girl who was raped this morning. But he had gone on to complain about discrimination against Catholics, so she fought with him about that instead. The woman told the man he was lame, and the man lamented further the plight of the modern Catholic (if only she understood!). Meanwhile, in an evening Mass in a parish not far away, a priest elevated the Eucharist: in it, Christ hung crucified on Calvary, and cried out to His Father: “Why have You abandoned me?” The girl still lay in her darkened bedroom, struggling to free her memory from the images of this morning, asking herself who will help her. Finally, she falls asleep from exhaustion. The man, the woman, and the editor also fall asleep, tired but content. After all, at the end of the day, neither anti-Catholicism nor stupid Catholics are all that bad. They sleep peacefully. The girl wakes up from a nightmare, at first grateful it was only a dream. Then she remembers: the nightmare was real.
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This is a true story. This is what happened today.

To Jay: AMEN!  You got that right!

@Jay

So because decent, normal human beings hate the evil deeds the Catholic Church perpetrated and don’t hate other organizations because a) they didn’t engage in the same kind of cover up and/or b) because they’re minor, fringe groups who most people aren’t even aware exist, that makes the Catholic Church “true”?

By your logic, the Westboro Baptist Church is even “truer” than the Catholic Church. By your logic, the Nazi party is “truer” than the Catholic Church. Heck, by your logic, Hitler is the second coming.

Christ was not referring to the world hating you for molesting and raping children. To claim that the fact people hate you because of the scandals proves you’re somehow more “right” than anyone else is pretty sick.

Whenever you apologists for child rapists open your mouths, you prove that the Catholic Church is nothing more than a country club for arrogant, prideful people who place themselves above God.

At the end of the day, Fulwiler’s self-centered, cold, dead, blind, thoughtless take on what is one of the most evil conspiracies in the world is pretty much what we can expect from Catholics. Children’s lives only have value to Catholics when they’re fetuses and can be pasted on signs and waved at “pro life” rallies. Afterwards, they’re just numbers in the Catholic mommy oneupmanship games (I have 5 under 8! Well, I have 9 under 12! Big deal, I have 11 and I’m expecting my 12th!) or statistics in a child-rapist-apologetics game.

Life is cheap as hell to you Catholics, and no life is more cheap than a child’s.

You have the Church you deserve—a cold, dead, shrinking, creepy club run by evil, twisted men. I feel bad for your children, though, because God only knows you’ll bend over backwards to protect the priest who rapes them before you’ll extend one iota of genuine human compassion towards the children themselves.

Surely there must be a few decent apostles (bishops). Are you God’s Iron Rod to rule the nations? Does your rod and your staff bring comfort to God’s ewes and God’s lambs? Do you act justly, love tenderly and walk humbly with your God? Do you make oppression (squelch cries for justice) and try to call it peace? It is what comes from the heart of each individual bishop that is going to make all of the difference in whether we build a godly kingdom or a kingdom of idols my,“en persona Christi”.

csmc - I’m still waiting for your reply on where, in her previous article, Jen stated or implied that Jesus wants the little children to be raped so [she] can grow in holiness.  Can you quote the relevant portion of the article from where you are inferring that statement?

Also, can you point out anywhere, either in the OP or in any of the comments, where anyone has said either (a) rape is a good thing, (b) rape should continue, or (c) rapists are completely innocent of any wrongdoing, regardless of religious affiliation? You keep making that claim and I can’t see where the basis for that accusation is coming from.

Continued prayers for you and your healing.

@JoAnna

I’m not going to play into your lies. Other people can read what I’ve written. I have not made those claims at all.

You’ve proven that you are more interested in shielding priest rapists, so you have an agenda to destroy anything that gets in your way. You’re less than pond scum to me now. I know what you are now. You’re no better than the priest who raped me. That is what you are.

I don’t want prayers from a liar, so keep that to yourself. I know that when Catholics like you say “I’ll pray for you” they’re really saying something quite opposite.

csmc - what lies? All I want to know is where you’re getting the inference from Jen’s articles that Jesus wants the little children to be raped so [she] can grow in holiness. I’ve read both and I can’t understand why you’re drawing that conclusion, but I would like to understand. Can you please clarify?

I’m not interested at all in shielding priest rapists. You can look at my comments for verification - I have repeatedly said that all priests who abuse children should be arrested, convicted, and prosecuted to the fullest extent of civil law and also receive the appropriate canonical penalties as well—that includes bishops, et al who have shielded said abusers.

Regardless of your feelings about my prayers, you have them anyway, and I mean that sincerely. No child should ever have to suffer the way that you did. Child abuse in any context is a tragedy and a scandal, and it needs to be stopped.

@JoAnna

You’re not me. You can’t even begin to understand my perspective.

You’re a proven liar, so, no, I know your “prayers” aren’t sincere.

Child abuse, to you, is something that you need to hide from the world to protect your Church. You’ve made that clear. You are complicit in the crimes of the men of the Catholic Church.

csmc - I would like to try to understand, if only a little. Please, tell me where you’re getting the inference from Jen’s articles that Jesus wants the little children to be raped so [she] can grow in holiness. I’ve read both her articles and I can’t understand why you’re drawing that conclusion from them.

You say I’m a proven liar, and this puzzles me. What have I lied about? Can you give an example of a lie that you believe I’ve told?

My feelings about child abuse are as follows: No child should ever have to suffer the way that you did. Child abuse in any context is a tragedy and a scandal, and it needs to be stopped, regardless of where it occurs - a church, a school, a home. It is pure evil.

@JoAnna

You have continually stated that I’ve made claims I clearly have not. That is lying.

I don’t believe you about anything anymore.

You don’t want to try to understand anything. You want to attack, pile on, gang rape.

It’s what you Catholics do. It’s what you’re best at. It’s who you are.

csmc - examples of my “lies,” please? Misunderstanding someone’s comments is not a “lie.” Otherwise, I could make the claim that you are lying when you claim that Jennifer Fulweiler’s articles spread the message that Jesus wants the little children to be raped so [she] can grow in holiness. However, I’m giving you the benefit of the doubt and assuming that you’re simply making an incorrect inference. I’d like to understand why you’re drawing the conclusion that you do, hence my repeated requests. I can’t understand why you refuse to do this if her meaning, as paraphrased by you, is so clear and evident.

Something else I understand that your hatred of the Catholic Church is blinding you to rational discourse. Don’t you think that accusing someone of advocating gang rape, when that person has clearly done the opposite, is also a lie?

T. Max Anderson, you rock!

It will be ***generations***, if ever, before one looks at a man wearing the Roman collar and doesn’t immediately think, “child rapist.”

Now, whenever a priest comes into a room, adults start moving the kids away from him.  He is seen as a threat, and rightly so.

“By their fruits, ye shall know them.”

In my town, after Finn was busted for trying to cover up the child abuse, families who had children in the catholic schools started pulling them out.  Most went to the public schools, which they trust. Some went to the Protestant schools…...

Also, can you point out anywhere, either in the OP or in any of the comments, where anyone has said either (a) rape is a good thing, (b) rape should continue, or (c) rapists are completely innocent of any wrongdoing, regardless of religious affiliation? You keep making that claim and I can’t see where the basis for that accusation is coming from.

I made these accusations exactly where?

Fulwiler’s entire take on the scandal is that it’s all about her in the end, and her spiritual growth, and why are all of us meanies picking on those priests when other people did it too, wahwahwah. She’s the one who’s claiming the scandals were a good thing for her, personally.

I never said anyone said the rape SHOULD continue. I said that the attitudes of Catholics regarding the scandal pretty much guarantee they WILL continue—and the Ratigan/Finn affair proves this.  For all that Fulwiler smugly asserts that the public schools are more dangerous because they didn’t take her advice re the new Catholic protocols and the media isn’t reporting as many stories re abuse in public schools, it’s the CATHOLICS who ignored those protocols and kept children in harm’s way. The hypocrisy is astounding.

Where did I accuse others of believing that rape is good no matter who the perp., their religious affiliation, blahblahblah? Where?

I made these accusations exactly where? ... Where did I accuse others of believing that rape is good no matter who the perp., their religious affiliation, blahblahblah? Where?

Your comments of Thursday, Oct 27, 2011 9:55 AM are an excellent example, among others. If I’m drawing the incorrect inference from your comments, I apologize, but that’s certainly the conclusion I’ve drawn (hence the paraphrase).

Fulwiler’s entire take on the scandal is that it’s all about her in the end, and her spiritual growth, and why are all of us meanies picking on those priests when other people did it too, wahwahwah. She’s the one who’s claiming the scandals were a good thing for her, personally

I understand that this is the inference you’re drawing from her articles. I would like you to point out the specific paragraphs, or even sentences, that you believe convey this message. Perhaps you’re misunderstanding the specific Catholic concepts she writes about.

For all that Fulwiler smugly asserts that the public schools are more dangerous because they didn’t take her advice re the new Catholic protocols and the media isn’t reporting as many stories re abuse in public schools, it’s the CATHOLICS who ignored those protocols and kept children in harm’s way.

Jen said that that PARTICULAR public school was probably more dangerous than her LOCAL Catholic parish, and gave evidence in that regard; she was not making a generalization of all public schools vs. all Catholic parishes.

You’re absolutely right, though, that in the past Catholic parishes and dioceses were very negligent in this regard. I hope and pray that the changes that have been made across the dioceses of the US and in the world will be more effective. For example, I have four children (ages 6, 3, 19 months, and due in December), two of whom attend religious education classes at our local parish. In order to volunteer with their RE programs—and also in order to volunteer with the marriage preparation program, even though no children are involved—my husband and I have had to attend training sessions in which the importance of immediately reporting ANY suspicious behavior toward children by ANYONE was stressed over and over again, as well as proper protocols for dealing with kids (they can’t be alone with adults in bathrooms, etc.). We’re required to update this training once per year, or else we can’t participate as volunteers in any parish program. I know many other dioceses—most in the US, in fact—have similar requirements.

We in the Anglican world (Fort Worth Diocese here) also have to go through a training program. I teach Sunday school for preschoolers, hubby does Children’s Chapel, and I am involved in just about every children’s activity in the parish including VBS. In Texas, anyone is a mandated reporter, not just teachers/etc.

I guarantee that if I suspected abuse not only would I report it to the child abuse hotline (1-800-4-A-Child), but also our bishop (who I know personally).  But then I am a loudmouth and a teacher.  On top of that, I was also abused nearly to the point of permanent injury as a child by my father (my older sister was his “favorite” and was molested.  Mom kicked him out before he could start on me).

Back to the original topic, I can understand Jennifer’s point.  As a parent, I was mistreated by the rector of our former parish (because my child acted like…a child, and *gasp* yelled “AMEN” during Mass) and ended up transferring our family’s membership to another parish. I believe that the emotional abuse, while I wish it hadn’t happened, caused me to grow a thicker spine and find a better parish.

Although molested as a child and making many poor decisions throughout her life, my sister is a strong-willed woman, seven months sober, has a loving husband and a beautiful teenage daughter, a job, a GED, and doesn’t sit on a com box whining about the evils of fathers everywhere (and the cover-ups/denials of moms, family, friends, etc. and that parents should be held to a higher standard than teachers because they’re responsible for their child’s upbringing). And when her husband’s father tried to molest her daughter, my sister got her the help she needed, plus my niece was taught early on by her mother how to handle if someone tries something like that.

My point is that you can let terrible things eat you up inside and see the bogeyman in everyone or you can grow a pair and face your fears, learn to deal with it, and lead a productive life.  No, terrible things won’t ever go away, the only thing you can change is yourself.

I apologize if this has turned into a rant and the most confusing comment in the world, I have a 3 year old asking me for help on his computer and a curious 7 month old on my lap who keeps trying to play with my keyboard.

And apparently this com box doesn’t like my use of the *enter* key and refused to double space my paragraphs.  Sorry.

A priest rapes a choirboy. the choirboy becomes depressed and traumatized, rejects Jesus and the church (understandably), turns to drugs, dies young and spends an eternity in hell, unsaved and condemned by god.
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The priest repents on his deathbed, embraces Christ, is forgiven and spends forever in heaven.
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By what measure can we consider this to be justice?
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Priests are being stereotyped because they were unquestionably respected as guides to thought and behavior. This allowed their crimes to go unpunished while anyone who accused them was further abused by people who wouldn’t believe a priest could do wrong. Blame the priests and bishops who perpetrated the crimes if the public associates priests with child abuse.

@Ifoundthishumerus

Regarding salvation of an abused child and disgruntled child, you seem to be conflating Catholic soteriology with protestant theology of the same.  Culpability almost certainly is mitigated in the abovementioned hypothetical.  Moreover, one’s intentional alienation from the love of Christ, which leads to the contempt that you characterized as “condemnation”, is a very intimate and unknowable aspect of one’s soul.  Further explanation of this matter would require a voluminous tome and, frankly, this subject is not entirely Germane to the central topic.

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Further, how can a person be both “unquestionably respected” for their station and negatively stereotyped at the same time?  These characterizations are antithetical.  If you mean that because priests were trusted, they were allowed to be in positions where they could abuse that trust, then you are correct.  Stranger danger is problematic.  We trust those who may not deserve that trust because we fear strangers.  This, however, is the salient thesis of Mrs. Fulwiler’s argument.  Only now the pendulum has swung and people place an irrational amount of distrust on the priests and put an inordinate amount of trust with people who have not earned that trust.

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As far as blaming priests and bishops for public mistrust, we should blame those priests for the harm they caused.  The media, and larger culture, should keep their harm in perspective.  No justice is served by stereotyping the many for the acts of a few.  This is true especially since the bulk of the crimes divulged were committed many years ago, decades ago in some cases.  This process leads to the sociological phenomenon of “othering.”  When we “other” we create in-crowds and out-crowds, which in turn leads to “stranger danger” and then to other instances of abuse.  This abuse, however, is not based on too much trust given to priests but to too little trust given to priests and too much trust given to the new “in crowd.”

The media, and larger culture, should keep their harm in perspective.  No justice is served by stereotyping the many for the acts of a few.  This is true especially since the bulk of the crimes divulged were committed many years ago, decades ago in some cases.  This process leads to the sociological phenomenon of “othering.”  When we “other” we create in-crowds and out-crowds, which in turn leads to “stranger danger” and then to other instances of abuse.  This abuse, however, is not based on too much trust given to priests but to too little trust given to priests and too much trust given to the new “in crowd.”

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You blame the media for making stereotypes? I think maybe because crimes are reported more often than “happy” stories, but they are keeping to the truth. They are reporting when priests are charged with child abuse and other misdeeds—just as they would about any other criminal. The fact that the accused is a priest—a person who was trusted because of his affiliation with the Church and his professed morals, makes the association more salient. After all, it’s not news when a prostitute or drug dealer gets arrested, but a clergyman being arrested for the same things is more provocative.
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Also, priests used to be a class of people everyone thought they could trust—it’s worse that a sports star or a movie star scandal.

In my opinion, we have learned nothing from the sex abuse crisis. We mention child abuse, and then talk about anti-Catholicism. We mention child abuse, and then talk about bad bishops. We mention child abuse, and talk about innocent priests. In short, we mention child abuse for every reason under the sun except to talk about child abuse itself. Someone says ‘child abuse’ and we start talking politics. This is the scandal all over again.
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While we talk about anti-Catholicism or our hatred for the Church or the future of the Church, children are being abused. They are being abused right now, while we’re talking. Why is it that everything strikes us as important but this one crucial fact? Was this not the crime of the bishops? Is it not true that whenever someone said to them, ‘Child abuse’, they replied, ‘Politics’? What are we doing differently?
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It seems to me that if we Catholics had allowed Christ to educate our hearts during the darkest days of the sex abuse scandal, we would be our nation’s foremost advocates for child abuse in all quarters of society, because we have (or should have) learned something from the crisis. Today, a Catholic writes in to his newspaper, saying, “The media doesn’t pay attention to abused children in public schools. This is evidence of anti-Catholic bias.” Talk about missing the point! He mentions abuse victims, but only so he can complain about his own life! This man doesn’t know what is important: it’s the scandal all over again. Instead, he should have said, “The media doesn’t pay attention to abused children in public schools. This leaves public school children vulnerable and helpless. But if the media will draw our national attention to this issue, we will surely be able to fix this problem.” And if people mock him because his is a Catholic voice, so be it, that is their foolishness, they are making themselves the culprits of a new scandal, they are now sacrificing children for politics. The man’s only concern should be repeating a message that urgently needs to be heard. He speaks because children are being abused.
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And incidentally, I think people would respect Catholics more if they saw this sort of thing, because they would see our hearts are finally in the right place. When a former addict teaches children about the dangers of drug abuse, we think he is redeeming himself, he is making something good and beautiful out of something that was bad. When on the other hand he sits around complaining that people look down on him for having been a drug user, we despise him, we think he is lame. This is because he stopped too soon; he hasn’t gone far enough; he hasn’t learned; he hasn’t grown. We are dissatisfied with him not so much because he has failed but because we want him to go further than his failure, and he refuses. In the same way I think that Catholics, precisely because we have failed, can hope to find some credibility on the topic of sexual abuse, if we are seen to own up to our own dirt. It’s not that anyone would praise us, and nor should they; but they might be willing to listen, precisely because we went through it first, and after all, we are right: we aren’t the only ones who have to go through it. The whole society does.
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Everything else we talk about in these discussions - anti-Catholicism, why we hate the Church, bad bishops, innocent priests, whatever - is important. But none of them is as important as this one fact: that somewhere out there, at this very instant, a child is being molested. This is the most important fact in this entire discussion. It disturbs me, then, that repeatedly, this is the only fact that we never emphasize.

David is right. Jennifer’s blog says that it’s wrong to think all priests are molesters, but try to defend contraception or abortion, even it is in the first trimester to save the mother, and you have everyone screaming bloody murder.
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They have no problem accusing Planned Parenthood with sex crimes and murder, but since there are no reports against them, the media must be attacking the Catholic church when it reports the arrest of a priest or bishop.
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And those who are praying for csmc are really praying that s/he will forgive their unspeakable offenses and stop making them look bad.

Do you guys not see her point? why are you all being so weird about this!! Take this as racism, ok? Talking all the time about some group doing some thing, even when 4% only (which in abuse is too much) does it, has terrible devastating effects on the whole group. What on earth does this have to do with contraception? If an Israeli shot a Palestinian, we are gonna call it the way it is: MURDER (shot for fun, not self defense). Does this give us the right to say all Jews are evil murderers? NO! We saw what this generalization did…..6 million dead Jews!!
If an arab blows himself up, we’ll call it MURDER. But saying all arabs are crazy time bombs… ruins the whole race’s lives!! Ask me, why am I the only one supposed to give my fingerprints at airports? just because of my country of origin? Why should priests be looked down upon, just because of the habit they are wearing??

It’s not the same as racism.

An organization conspired to cover up and further the systematic rape of children within it’s authority. For decades. That organization presents itself as the moral authority to the world. Even after their evil acts and evil conspiracy to cover up those acts was revealed, and after they swore that they had taken measures to ensure this would never happen again, it is happening again, and the pattern is identical to the pattern they tried to blame on gay people, on the psychiatric community, on the children themselves.

That’s the STORY. That’s why it’s a bigger story than local, isolated accounts of child abuse in families, in public schools, in scouting groups, soccer teams, et al.

Part of that story, too, is the callous disregard the apologists for the priest abusers have for actual human beings whose lives were destroyed by the very priests she reveres. Cold, heartless, callous, icy disregard. She can’t even bring herself to acknowledge them in her last post or this one. Not once does she even recognize that they exist. That is the work of Satan.

csmc - can you point to any comment, either in the OP or the comments section, wherein anyone has defended abusive priests and/or their actions? Your untrue accusations are getting quite tiresome.

JoAnna, when Catholics attempt to deflect attention from their own problem by pointing fingers at others, they are defending the criminals in their own ranks. That’s why they do it. THAT is the defense. If you can’t understand that (or won’t, more likely), that’s your problem, not mine. It’s also becoming a huge problem for the Catholic Church as the scandals continue and more families leave the Church because they realize all the promises of changes in policy and increased vigilance are empty promises after all.

If my “untrue accusations” are so tiresome to you, why are you waiting with bated breath to jump on me every time I post? What does that say about you?

However, since they’re such a burden to you, I will ignore you from now on. None of my tiresome posts are at all directed towards you and you may now completely disregard them.

when Catholics attempt to deflect attention from their own problem by pointing fingers at others,

Which isn’t what anyone has been doing; the point is that the media should be concerned about child abuse WHEREVER it occurs, not just in the Catholic Church, but they’re not. This does children who are abused by teachers, doctors, family members, etc. a grave disservice. It’s also to prove the assertion false that Catholic priests abuse at higher rates than the rest of the general male population. You know, these little things called “facts.”

Once again, can you point to any comment, either in the OP or the comments section, wherein anyone has defended abusive priests and/or their actions? Given you refused to answer this question, I’m guessing you can’t, which is why you should stop slandering people by accusing them of being “apologists for priest abusers.”

If my “untrue accusations” are so tiresome to you, why are you waiting with bated breath to jump on me every time I post? What does that say about you?

Oh, it’s not for your benefit. I just want to show the lurkers who may be intimidated by your hatred and bigotry that untrue accusations shouldn’t be tolerated.

csmc, i suggest you spread your hatred of the Catholic Church somewhere else, and for your allagations about being abused by a Catholic Priest, why don’t you go and name that Priest, It it is easy to make unsubstiated allegations on this site. In Ireland some months ago our our National TV station RTE allegations made serious allegations about a Priest named Father Noel Reynolds, and the man had to step down while he was investigated, now we find out that this Priest was accused in the wrong and RTE had to apoligise, so it is easy for you to make unsubstaniated allegations. I suspect you are just another of those tiresome anti Catholic Atheists, and I will treat you as that

Yes, JoAnna. I’m a big hater of child rapists and I’m bigoted towards organizations that continue to conspire to cover up child rape and towards those who are still using the “but they’re doing it too” excuse. Guilty on both charges. Your point?

Then why are you on this site, csmc? The Catholic Church does not conspire to cover up child rape (even if individuals within the church have done so, which is a grave, moral sin according to the Church’s teachings), nor does She use the “but they’re doing it too” excuse.

In case you missed it: the point is that the media [and others] should be concerned about child abuse WHEREVER it occurs, not just in the Catholic Church, but they’re not. This does children who are abused by teachers, doctors, family members, etc. a grave disservice. It’s also to prove the assertion false that Catholic priests abuse at higher rates than the rest of the general male population. You know, these little things called “facts.”

*should be “a grave, mortal sin” above, sorry for the typo.

The priest who raped me and other girls in our parish was finally caught by the Feds for being part of an international child pornography ring. He was a priest in our parish from the late 60s through the early 70s. It wasn’t until he was caught by the Feds, in spite of the number of complaints against him, that the Church FINALLY handed him over (not that they had a choice at that point). He had been recycled through several parishes by the time he was finally stopped, however. Who knows how many lives he destroyed by then.

But that’s nothing to you people, is it? Better that lives be destroyed than the institution you idolize be tarnished in any way. Lives are cheap when it comes to protecting your image, your facade, your great whitewashed sepulchre.

Uh, JoAnna, this entire blog post is a “they’re doing it too” excuse. That’s what it _is_. Scroll through the comboxes. There are dozens of of “but they did it too” in there. You really can’t see that…? What’s wrong with you?

You still don’t get that the conspiracy to cover up the abuse is the actual story, the scandal, do you? You don’t get that playing a statistics game isn’t the point, do you?

Wow. So much for you “pro”-life people.

You really can’t see it. That’s the dangerous part. That is why the Catholic Church will never, ever be free of this evil. If you can’t see it, can’t name it, you can’t stop it.

The Devil is laughing with delight at you people.

How can you say the Catholic Church doesn’t conspire to conver up child abuse?

What rock have you been living under?

This is proven fact.

Bishop after bishop recycled abusive priest after abusive priest for DECADES, dear. These priests were sent from parish to parish to parish IN SPITE OF recorded incident after recorded incident of child abuse! They KNEW what these disgusting men were doing and they covered it up. The policy was to hide the facts. To move the priests. To silence the victims.  That’s called a conspiracy, dear. That’s what a conspiracy IS.

You really are in denial, aren’t you? You know what the saddest thing about your denial is? That it endangers your own children more than anything else.

csmc - I’m glad the priest who abused you was caught and punished. I’m confused about the Church “handing him over,” though - were they keeping him forcibly imprisoned before then?

Once again, csmc, in case you missed it: when people bring up abuse that happens in other denominations or institutions (e.g., public schools) the point is that the media [and others] should be concerned about child abuse WHEREVER it occurs, not just in the Catholic Church, but they’re not. This does children who are abused by teachers, doctors, family members, etc. a grave disservice. It’s also to prove the assertion false that Catholic priests abuse at higher rates than the rest of the general male population. You know, these little things called “facts.”

You still don’t get that the conspiracy to cover up the abuse is the actual story, the scandal, do you?

I haven’t seen evidence of this conspiracy, and you’ve yet to provide any. What I have seen is individual members of the Church sin grievously against God and their fellow Christians. I’ve also seen the Church struggle to change the fraternal mindset and bureaucratic policies that unwittingly enabled abusers in those years.

The Devil is laughing with delight at you people.

On that we can agree. Thankfully, I’ve read the Book and I know how the story ends. :)

How can you say the Catholic Church doesn’t conspire to conver up child abuse?

This is proven fact.

If it’s a proven fact, you should be able to provide evidence in this regard. Can you?

Bishop after bishop recycled abusive priest after abusive priest for DECADES, dear. These priests were sent from parish to parish to parish IN SPITE OF recorded incident after recorded incident of child abuse! They KNEW what these disgusting men were doing and they covered it up. The policy was to hide the facts. To move the priests. To silence the victims.  That’s called a conspiracy, dear. That’s what a conspiracy IS.

A conspiracy would indicate that EVERY SINGLE bishop from the Pope on down did so, acting under secret orders from the Vatican, and that’s not the case. Did individual bishops sin? Yes, but they were acting alone out of a false sense of fraternity, and upon the poor advice of secular psychologists who assured them that the priests in question were “cured.” 
Once again, you should read this (secular, non-Christian) site’s overview of the situation; they do not believe, as you do, that a worldwide conspiracy existed: http://www.religioustolerance.org/clergy_sex6.htm

You really are in denial, aren’t you? You know what the saddest thing about your denial is? That it endangers your own children more than anything else.

I find it equally sad that your hatred and anger makes you irrational and blind to the actual facts of the situation. If you truly cared about my children, or any children, you’d calm down, look at the facts, and have a civil, reasoned discussion about the situation as opposed to posting diatribes rife with slander and untrue, easily refutable accusations.

cmsc,
you are a voice from Hell.  You are a hate filled person.  You aren’t the first person to be abused, nor will you be the last.  Abusers exist everywhere, and in every walk of life.  Grow up.  You will never be an advocate for children because you don’t love.  You are a hater.  You will never find God until you learn to forgive.  We Catholics fix our eyes on the innocent ONE who was tortured mercilessly for our sins, and we forgive.  Hell is a choice.  God sends no one there.  You will exist there until you CHOOSE LOVE.  You don’t have to feel it, but you have to humble yourself.  Stare up at the man mutilated by your sins and ask him to teach you how.

“But that’s nothing to you people, is it? Better that lives be destroyed than the institution you idolize be tarnished in any way. Lives are cheap when it comes to protecting your image, your facade, your great whitewashed sepulchre.”

First, Catholics, most of them, will quickly admit the people within the Church sin.  Actually, the narrative of the Garden of Eden and doctrine regarding original sin seem to suggest, as a presupposition, that humanity is fallen.  Therefore, to suggest that humanity is not fallen would be a heresy.  We can take as fact that, as did Judas, those among us will betray us - even priests and bishops.  Some, and reiterate “some”, priests and bishops committed abuse, turned a blind eye to abuse, or actively covered up abuse. 

Thusly, ” I have greatly sinned, in my thoughts and in my words, in what I have done and in what I have failed to do,through my fault, through my fault,through my most grievous fault[.]”

I also understand that you are angry, even devastated by prior events.  From your point of view I could understand how any approach at contextualizing the issue would seem like a defense of a single perpetrating individual.  As a law student and intern with the county prosecutor’s office, I have had impulses to be angry with opposing counsel and their representation of unsavory individuals, some of whom are sex offenders.  I have a very small glimmer of perspective of what you think and feel. 

The Church, however, has come a long way since the 60’s and 70’s.  Actually, society has come a long way since the 60’s and 70’s.  Put simply, we deal with sexual violence and sexual abuse in much different ways now.  Some evidence for this statement can be found by pouring through legal jurisprudence over the 30 to 40 years.  Marital rape has been repealed in most jurisdictions and rape shield laws are more prevalent.  These are just a few examples.

Handing him over, as I said, was hardly a choice. Like the other child raping priests the Church knew about in dioceses around the world, he was recycled from parish to parish and allowed to continue to rape and abuse. It wasn’t until the Feds finally caught him that he was taken by the Feds. If it were up to the Church, and had this priest not been caught via a separate investigation into this child pornography ring, the Church would have let him abuse and rape his way through parish after parish until he finally dropped dead.

Once again, JoAnna, you miss the point that there is an angle to this story that sets it apart from other incidences of abuse. And the media does indeed report on local incidences of abuse, and we have seen huge stories on abusive situations when the nature of those stories warrant more widespread coverage (Warren Jeffs, for example).

Also, if you really believed what you claim you believe, you woudn’t care what “the media” does or doesn’t do. You’re supposed to answer to a higher authority. But you have placed your trust in men, not God, which is why it’s all falling apart now. That’s on you, not on me, not on the media, not on anyone else.

JoAnna, if you can seriously claim that there is no evidence of a conspiracy to cover up the evil crimes of these individuals at this point in time, then there’s no point in even bothering with you. You’re on Satan’s side, then. If you can’t look at the various reports out of Boston, Philly, New York, Ireland, Austria, and elsewhere, and not see that there was a clear conspiracy to cover up the crimes of known sexual predators—not only to cover up those crimes, but to allow them to continue—then you have chosen Satan over God.

You are pure, walking evil. You are Satan. Yeah, we all know how your story ends.

You don’t even exist in my world anymore.

Yep, I’m a hater, Anna Lisa. But I’m not the voice from Hell. That would be JoAnna and anyone else whose main agenda is to deflect attention from the crimes of their own organization. Oh, yeah, that means you, too.

The men and the worldly institution you worship is your god, not the real God. That much is clear.

JoAnna, if you can seriously claim that there is no evidence of a conspiracy to cover up the evil crimes of these individuals at this point in time, then there’s no point in even bothering with you.

I’m willing to consider any evidence presented, if you can provide some. Can you?

JoAnna, not gonna play your games. You know the evidence, you can google the reports yourself (links only hold up comments here anyway).

You have an agenda to deny the truth.

You’re incapable of seeing the real evil behind the scandal.

You are dead to me. You’re not even a human being to me anymore. You’re just another agent of Satan sent to clear the path for more abuse.

You think you’re so clever, you think it’s all about you and winning something in a combox.

If you really believed in God, if you were a real human being, you wouldn’t think that. Only Satan thinks that way.

Not a game, csmc. If you make an accusation, the onus is on you to provide the evidence thereto. If this conspiracy is a “fact” as you say, then it should be easy to provide evidence.

I came into the Church as an adult convert in 2003, in the aftermath of the initial scandal. Prior to that time, as a Lutheran with no desire to enter the Church, I looked at the reports and evidence, and concluded that all evidence presented did not point to a worldwide, ongoing, secret conspiracy involving every single member of the Catholic Church, but rather individual sinners in a large, bureaucratic institution—and that similarly sized bureaucratic institutions had similar problems (e.g., public schools).

However, if you have evidence I haven’t seen or considered, I’m willing to entertain it. You can e-mail it to me if you like - jrwahlund at gmail dot com.

Yes, JoAnna-aka-The-Evil-One, I know who you are.

You already say up front that you personally found the evidence unconvincing.

So what’s the point in showing to you again?

You think it was perfectly fine for priests to abuse over and over again, and for bishops who knew they were serial abusers to procure new, fresh victims for them by placing them in parish after parish.

You think that’s not a conspiracy.

Well, of course not.

To you, that’s a success story. That is the entire goal of your Satanic mission.

You WANT children to be raped, therefore you have to do your utmost to deflect attention from what is happening.

We get it. Really. You don’t have to keep telling us.

Also, nice trick with the qualifier “every member of the church”. Every member doesn’t have to involved for there to be a conspiracy.

But you have to play tricks and word games and lie—you are the Father of All Lies, the master of trickery and deceit.

Lies, deceit, manipulation are how you operate.

You’ve exposed yourself for what you are. Now that you’ve done that, you have no power over anything anymore. You’re just a silly little bit of noise that means nothing.

csmc -

So what’s the point in showing to you again?

Perhaps you have evidence I have not seen or considered. I’m willing to entertain whatever evidence you wish to show me. But not matter how many times I ask for evidence of this alleged conspiracy, you will not provide any. Could that possibly be because you don’t have any, but don’t wish to admit it?

You think it was perfectly fine for priests to abuse over and over again,

Proof of this, please? Where did I say this?

and for bishops who knew they were serial abusers to procure new, fresh
victims for them by placing them in parish after parish.

Proof of this, please? Where did I say this?

You WANT children to be raped, therefore you have to do your utmost to
deflect attention from what is happening.

Proof of this, please? Where did I say this (or, for that matter, anything that could be remotely construed to say this)?

Perhaps, csmc, the fact that you spout out baseless accusations with no evidence to support them should be ringing some alarm bells.

Your words are still there. Your agenda is clear. From the moment you showed up, your intent was to downplay the abuse, to excuse the hierarchy and to present your evil church as a safe haven for children when it is, in truth, a safe haven for predators. You plotted and planned this, but God has revealed you for what you are, Evil One, and your words are powerless now. You won’t suck any children of Christ’s true followers into your evil snare any longer.

It is time that as Catholics we start standing up for our Priests.  Only then will these kinds of “jokes” stop.  If we don’t defend them, no one will.

csmc, why don’t you open you eyes, there is no way JoAnna or anyone else is condoning abuse by Catholic Clergy, all she is pointing out is that it is happening in other institutions that is all. I suspect you are an Anti Catholic Atheist, and if you are? do you take responsibability for the Murder rape and abuse adopted by the Atheists Lenin and Stalin in the Soviet Union. These two Atheists were responsible for the murder of over 30 million people many of whom were Catholic and other Christians, and unlike the abuse in the Catholic Church this slaughter was systematic? now cmsc how about some answers from you. If you are so anti Catholic why are you on a Catholic newspaper site, over to you.

I’m a Christian, not an atheist.

Yes.

Everyone understands that you’re trying to excuse the abuse the Catholic Church perpterated by pointing out that other people did it too.

That’s the problem.

“Other people do it too” is not an excuse for anything.

But the agenda of this website, its bloggers and the apologists who show up in the comboxes is to fool the world into thinking the abuse wasn’t just a few isolated incidents perpetrated by lone-wolf predators and that the hierarchy had no hand in the cover up. They have a vested interest in tricking the world into believing the Catholic Church is a safe place for children.

It’s a trap. It’s a trick. They want your children for their own sick purposes. Look at Kansas City. They’re still doing it. The pattern never changes. Abusive priest, conspiracy to cover up by the bishop. Same old same old. It’s what you people do. It’s who you are.

The world sees you now, you’ve been dragged into the light and we see the darkness inside, the evil, the lies, the trickery and the deception. You can’t trick us any longer. The only people who stay in the Catholic Church are willing participants in their evil deeds, willing providers of wealth to aid and abet abuse, to pay for lawyers to keep abusers from paying the consquences of their sick crimes, parents willing to turn a blind eye and put their children in harm’s way in order to serve the Evil One.

That’s Who. You. Are.

csmc. Enlighten me what kind of Christian Church do you inhabit or where it is that maybe the Minister and fellow mwmbers of that Congregation will know what kind of bigot they are worshipping with, or course we Catholics in Ireland know what Religious persecution our forefathers by the Protestant British Establishment, how 2 million of our people were starved to Death by the Anti Catholic Christian Government of England, we Catholic also remember how our Priests were murdered by these Catholic hating so Called Christians. I think maybe if you chased down your ancesters you would be decended from one of those murderers. I do not think you are feeling and you shoul;d lie down for awhile and leave your non rational hatred go away

You know what, “Con” (perfect name for you…), you’re an illiterate idiot.

Yes, clearly, to you, anyone who isn’t a Roman Catholic and doesn’t toe the line and play along with your conspiracy to cover up sexual abuse is a “bigot”.

The irony…

I’m sure you have lovely things to say about the Jews, too.

let me guess—Hutton Gibson’s website is bookmarked on your favorites list…

csmc. I am not ashamed to put my name on paper am 1? and I do not have to make up spurious stories about being abused when you have produced no evidence whatsoever, in your sick mind I might be an “illiterate idiot” to the likes of you but I am not a liar. and again I ask the question what Christian Church do you crawl into each Sunday morning, you accuse me of being in a “conspiricy to cover up child abuse”, now csmc where is your evidence. You accuse me of being anti semitic where is your evidence for that?. I am afraid I should excuse you from making these allegations, for you are not well

csmc - You are the most hate-filled individual I have ever encountered online or elsewhere; I really don’t know how to respond to you.  You obviously are in need of healing and prayers.  I think it’s unfortunate that you can’t admit that and pursue it.  And JoAnna - I don’t know where you get your patience - you are remarkable. 

I was abused as a child several times by teenage boys in my neighborhood.  I had a problem with promiscuity later in life, fortunately it didn’t make me bitter or angry and I think that I have come to terms with it.  I can certainly understand how being abused by someone who takes advantage of his “authority” or position of trust would embitter a victim.  That being said, csmc, your hatred hurts no one but yourself.  And I would reiterate the question in an earlier post - if you hate Catholics so much, why would you post on a Catholic paper’s website - just to share your vitriole?  It DOES get tiresome.  Give it a rest already.  No one here has defended predator priests, but to accuse the whole church of acting in a conspiracy really goes beyond the pale.  Both this pope and the last have been extraordinarily proactive in confronting the abuse issues.  Also, you aren’t giving any credit to the bishops who did confront abusers and removed them immediately.  I live in Phoenix; our former bishop was a disgrace, but Bishop Olmstead has gone completely in the other direction - priests are removed pending investigations.  And in some cases I have no doubt that the accusations are spurious.  Several of them are “repressed memories.” These abuses supposedly took place 25 to 30 to 40 years ago. I know several priests who were accused in Phoenix and I don’t believe they abused anyone.  As the Bible says:  “By their fruits ye shall know them.”  These priests were/are holy men with deeply spiritual lives; no chance they abused anyone but the false charges made against them destroyed several of their lives.  One priest left for a monastery and we lost a wonderful diocesan priest.  There was one charge leveled against him by an accuser to the bishop - there was never a prosecutable case.  Despite that he was unable to clear his name - it just takes one accusation to cloud a priest’s reputation.  See the website “themediareport.com”; it reveals that the published abuse rate by priests is probably far less than the media reports because of the false allegations made against priests.  It discusses cases where priests were accused and later cleared.  But of course, by then the damage to their reputations was done; I can’t imagine how these men suffer when they are accused falsely.  There is a a link to a website of a falsely accused priest (thesestonewalls.com).  There was a vital piece of evidence left out of his trial that would have vindicated him but the judge wouldn’t permit the detective testifying to reveal it. It’s an amazing story of jurisprudence gone wild.

What about the lawyers who sue the dioceses in these cases?  They are making millions if not billions of dollars.  Talk about lining up at the trough; and isn’t that incentive enough to charge/facilitate false charges and prosecutions?  And csmc, whether you like it or not, Catholic institutions provide billions of dollars in services to the poor and disadvantaged throughout the world, not to mention the hospitals, adoption centers, community service centers and schools that are funded/provided by contributions made by Catholic parishioners.  The capacity of the church to continue to provide services will be thoroughly compromised by the payments of the ridiculous settlements awarded to so-called victims and their lawyers.  I’m not saying that there are no creditable if not egregious cases of abuse by priests; I just don’t believe that it is as widespread as the media would have us believe.  I think of the cases of the 5 priests I know personally; there were no prosecutions - just charges and broken hearts.  And again, these were not “worldly” priests, these were priests who lead weekly devotions to Our Lady or the Divine Mercy.  I just don’t believe that they were capable of abusing anybody; I think THEY are victims.

Ifoundthisevil:  Catholics don’t care about children/people after they are born, just while they are fetuses?  What world are you living in?  There is no institution on earth that has provided more assistance than the Catholic Church - through the centuries!  The orphanages that were run, the schools opened for poor children - do you forget Boys Town which was established by Father Flanagan?  What about the orphanages started by Saint (Don) Bosco?  Where do you think hospitals came from or universities?  They were started by the Catholic church in the middle ages.  The study of genetics was begun by a Catholic monk.  The Catholic Church has established more charitable, educational, scientific institutions than any other organization in history.  Study up!

Desdemona - I live in Phoenix also. :) Bp. Olmsted is a gem!

A religious student group has filed suit in federal court against Oklahoma’s Owasso Public Schools, claiming that the district has violated the group’s First and Fourteenth Amendment rights.
—-
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LEBANON, Ohio—A high school teacher was convicted Thursday of having sex with five students, some of them football players, after a judge rejected an insanity defense that argued the teens took advantage of her.

Stacy Schuler was sentenced to a total of four years in prison for the encounters with the Mason High School students at her home in Springboro in southwest Ohio in 2010. She can ask a judge to free her from prison after six months.

The 33-year-old Schuler, who could have faced decades in prison, cried as she was handcuffed and led out of the courtroom.
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HUNTINGTON BEACH, Calif.—A former Olympic gymnastics coach facing allegations of sexual abuse resigned Tuesday from his coaching and director positions at a prominent Orange County club.

The resignation comes after the newspaper’s investigation last month alleging sexual and physical abuse of underage gymnasts. More than a dozen former gymnasts told the newspaper stories of abuse.

In a Sept. 25 Register story, Doe Yamashiro, a former U.S. national team and SCATS member, said Peters began fondling her in 1986, when she was 16, and had sexual intercourse with her when she was 17.
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The above stories were posted this month in the “liberal” Huffington Post. These people were not affiliated with the any church. So stop complaining that the liberal media is only targeting Catholic priests.
This was also posted:
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PHILADELPHIA — Prosecutors seeking to convict four Roman Catholic priests and a teacher in a pedophilia case want to use evidence of other sexual assault complaints and priest transfers in the Philadelphia Archdiocese.

They filed a motion Friday to include relevant conduct at the high-profile trial, which is scheduled for March.

Monsignor William Lynn, 60, is the first U.S. church official charged with child endangerment and accused of transferring predator priests who then abused more victims. Two priests, an ex-priest and a teacher are charged in the same case with raping two boys.

Prosecutors hope to show that Lynn had a pattern of transferring known predators and that priests “had the opportunity and cover” to abuse minors.
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The press give full coverage to ANY offender that has been officially accused and arrested AND they state the circumstances where the abuse took place. So, Con o Sullivan, JoAnna, if the press doesn’t report a “cover-up” of abuses in secular organizations, it’s because they didn’t find any legal evidence of a cover-up. If there was, every press would be on it—cover-ups make good copy and very good money and it there was no legal evidence against Father Finn, he could sue—just like other falsely accused/convicted people when their names are cleared.
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Catholics are more concerned about accusations against priests, etc because the fact that they are church hierarchy matters to them. But they are not being targeted, for being Catholic. They are being targeted because the Church as set up a situation where abuse can happen between a person who should be trusted not to abuse, and there was a cover-up. Remember Watergate?
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Also, JoAnna, and Con—you have your patterns of abuse yourself. You accuse people who have had a bad experience of the church as liars and put them to work to justify what they say. One of the worst parts of the experience of abuse is no one believes the victim—shame on you! Then you come out with Stalin, Hitler, Pol Pot, and other atheist dictators and expect non-Catholics to take responsibility for their mass murders, posting ONLY from Catholic-based publications and get all righteous when secular sources are posted.
.
CMSC—stop fighting with these idiots—they want to hurt you even more. That is what Catholics do when they are cornered like the rats that they are.

“Anybody” - once csmc and the huffpo start ranting and raving about how all high school teachers and coaches are pure, unadulterated evil and part of a vast worldwide conspiracy to rape as many children as possible (with the media reporting same), then there might be something resembling a valid comparison.

Hare Krishnas are far less central to US life than Catholicism is. If the CC wants to be prominent in national life, it must take the rough with the smooth, and not complain when the chasm between its public face and real conduct is shown up. The Church has done these evil and monstrous & Christ-denying things in several countries, not in one alone, and for many years; no wonder if Catholic clergy are sometimes treated like something out of a sewer. What has happened is a gigantic breach of trust - it will take a very long time to heal; for people do not like being betrayed.

“Anybody” - once csmc and the huffpo start ranting and raving about how all high school teachers and coaches are pure, unadulterated evil and part of a vast worldwide conspiracy to rape as many children as possible (with the media reporting same), then there might be something resembling a valid comparison.
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<i>There you go again—high school teachers and coaches who rape are pure, unadulterated evil, but, unlike Catholic posts, straight reporters cannot and do not express their opinions—they just report the events as they happen. Blogs and newspapers, etc. all have space, however, for the public to express their opinions—this is such a space. If the public rants about the church as an institution that perpetuates abuse, any Catholic can post their defense. ccsmc and express her own opinion here, the Huffington Post must report without comment, and the outrage is expressed in their opinion sections by their readers—just as it is here.
There is plenty of “ranting and raving” about the abuse of public schools and sports coaches here. You, Con o Sullivan, and Desdemona must be hired professionals.

Way to entirely miss the point, Anybody.

The underlying problem that no attacking MSM outlet will touch is the RCCs negligence in turning a blind eye to actively homosexual priests. When the vast majority of abuse is homosexual on adolescent males it is obvious the Church has a homosexual problem that the media is spinning into a celibacy issue because they hate celibacy, responsibility, and self control…esp. for the glory of God. Add to that the infiltration of communists and others bent on destroying her from within (see the recent economic “white paper” released by “the Vatican” that advances a commie profs. agenda) by destroying catechesis, iconoclasm, dumbing down the liturgy, and using “the vernacular” to change the message and the Church is in serious trouble. We may be “purified” back to the catacombs. I am astounded at the level of Protestant hatred of Catholics, even claiming Catholics are not Christian while they idolize the Bible given to them by the Church.

“I hope Finn does jail time and finds out what it’s like to be a sex offender in the general population of a high security prison. Then he’ll know what it feels like for a small child to be penetrated by an adult male.”
*
It’s high time the law caught up with the bishops. The higher the offender’s rank in the Church, the more ferocious the punishment should be. And the sooner some people understand why the crimes of Catholic priests, bishops and religious are particularly heinous and vile, more heinous than if they were mere teachers or the like, the better. IMO, the Church should revive the death penalty for those who do these things. We need the Inquisition for trying such cases.

Any of you Catholic haters care to comment on the Hare Krishna abuse? Or is it only Catholic scandals that interest you? Bp Finn acted appropriately, that abuse was about a photograph.

“I hope Finn does jail time and finds out what it’s like to be a sex offender in the general population of a high security prison…”

You do realize that Finn’s been charged with a misdemeanor count of failure to report child abuse, right? If convicted, he wouldn’t be considered a sex offender or be required to register as one; moreover, if convicted of a misdemeanor, I doubt he’d be put in a high-security prison, should his sentence include jail time.

Finn has been under attack by the liberal media in K.C. because he is an orthodox Catholic. Contrast the treatment of Finn for supposed failure to report and the treatment of Obama appointee homosexual activist Kevin Jennings who related knowing about an incident between a teenage boy and an adult male which he did not report….(he also wrote a foreword for a book about “Queering elementaery education” and endorsed Harry Hay of NAMBLA).
If the MSM really gave a rats about kids, they’d be treating ALL cases of abuse the same. But they don’t, which reveals what they are really against.

Anybody, I note that the train carrying csmc is leaving town, and it uis a pity you have not joined him/her, and yes I do not believe his/her story about being abused. In Ireland where a live a Priest was slandered by the state Television Station last May, Three weeks the Company had to post an apology to that innocent man, after they destroyed his charactor. Get a grip, anybody or nobody or whatever you call yourself, Catholics do not condone child abuse,and the cover up of this abuse, when you can get your brain around that fact then you are getting the message

Cha, in Finn’s case he deserves the charges leveled against him. He exercised extremely poor judgment when it came to Fr. Ratigan’s crimes (as did Msgr. Murphy). He may be an orthodox, faithful bishop in terms of theology but he is apparently a very poor administrator.

http://wdtprs.com/blog/2011/10/archbp-naumann-archd-kc-on-bp-finn-d-kc-st-joseph-and-the-kansas-city-star/

What point did I “entirely miss”, JoAnna?

Anybody, I note that the train carrying csmc is leaving town, and it uis a pity you have not joined him/her, and yes I do not believe his/her story about being abused.
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Yes, you are as pleasant to deal with as a cornered rat. Glad she took my advise. I’ll bet you think every priest/Catholic who is accused is being persecuted.
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In Ireland where a live a Priest was slandered by the state Television Station last May, Three weeks the Company had to post an apology to that innocent man, after they destroyed his charactor.
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OK, show the post for the ONE Irish priest who was slandered. Can priests sue the medial in Ireland? If he is innocent, I hope he does. Can you explain the Magdalen Laundries?
I know Catholics don’t condone child abuse and its cover-up. you merely deny that the church you support has is more concerned with saving the Church’s Infallibility than protecting the innocent.
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From JoAnna:
You do realize that Finn’s been charged with a misdemeanor count of failure to report child abuse, right? If convicted, he wouldn’t be considered a sex offender or be required to register as one; moreover, if convicted of a misdemeanor, I doubt he’d be put in a high-security prison, should his sentence include jail time.
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Obviously, you think this is a good thing.
@ Con o Sullivan and JoAnn:
Anybody, I note that the train carrying csmc is leaving town, and it uis a pity you have not joined him/her, and yes I do not believe his/her story about being abused.
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<i>It is natural to be repelled when skunked. I would compare you to skunks, but that would insult the skunks. Let’s just say you share a common weapon when you are frightened—you raise a great stink that spreads over everything around it.
I wonder if you would believe if Jesus Christ said he was crucified, if He wrote here?. But then how would you know—anyone can sign as Jesus Christ, and do you really expect Him to communicate by internet?
Anyway, this is a Catholic blog and only Catholics can be martyrs here.
There is a place in Hell for hypocrites and I’ll be watching you from above, and smiling.

anyboby or maybe nobody since you are gutless and will not print your name, I wonder if you are a christian and what church do you crawl into every Sunday with you selfrighteous pap, since you may have read the bible(i doubt it ) remember the words of Jesus"Judge not for ye be not judged” Lk 6: 35, but I suppose a hypocrite like you never read those words, so anybody/nobody did you?. So who will be smiling down on who I leave to Almighty God, him and him alone. Thinking about your Anti Catholic hatred, I wonder if you traced your ancertors would you find some one of them would be a member of the “know nothings” or maybe the “Klu Klux klan” who may know perseecuted Catholics as well as African Americans. you sound like a decendent of one of them.

Anybody - read my post again and see if you can figure it out.

As for my feelings regarding Bishop Finn, they are irrelevant. I was addressing the facts of the situation regarding Bp. Finn’s criminal charges. But if you read previous posts of mine, you’ll see that I’ve stated before that I think the indictment and the charges are both fair and warranted given his violation of diocesan rules. I just wish Msgr. Murphy had been indicted and charged as well.

Anybody, I am spraying nothing but exposing your Anti Catholic trash. No Catholic is condoning child abuse in the Catholic Church.yes I can explain the Magdelene Laundries. They were institutions where you woman were removed to by Families , Priests and the Irish State. These were shocking place in the main and should never have been allowed, they were run by Catholic religious, now I have given my answer, I would like to find out more from you about the Klu Klux Klan. just for some balance to the argument.

If you want to know about the KKK, look it up yourself, creep. I don’t know much about them.—I am not part of their organization and I would not want to be, even if they turned around and became a bunch of saints. I don’t hold any of you personally responsible for the abuses—but you do defend and support an institution and allowed and covered up abuses to save their own reputation at the expense of the victims. I am not a Catholic for the same reason—satisfied? I’m not so much anti-Catholic, but anti-Catholic Church and it’s Pope. And I know a F**t when I smell one.

Anybody/nobody. Yes you are in good company, the KKK were anti Catholic Church as well, so were the “Know nothings”, so were the Communists/Atheists of the Soviet Union, who murdered Millions of Catholics, and so were the Nazis who were Responsible for the murder of 3 Million Catholics, and don’t forget West boro Baptist Church you are in a fine club, and since you are so anti Catholic Church, why don’t you clear off from this Catholic Newspaper site like cmsc and spread your bigotry somewhere else, you can use your ridiculas non de plume somewhere else

More F**ts!!! My eyes are burning!

anybody/nobody, go to your spirtual home The West Boro Baptist Church, you will find like minded Catholic haters there

<i>Doesn’t anyone else need a gas mask here?
You stink so bad you make Right Guard turn left, Speed Stick slow down, Secret obvious, and Sure confused.
You have diarrhea of the mouth; constipation of the ideas.
At least you are not obnoxious like so many other people - you are obnoxious in a different and worse way!
I’ve come across decomposed bodies that are less offensive than you are.
I don’t know what makes you so stupid, but it really works!
You’re the best at all you do – and all you do is make people hate you.
You were born because your mother didn’t believe in abortion—I bet now she believes in infanticide!</i?

anybody/nobody. I would suggest you seek medical help you are not well.

The only thing worse than your logic is your manners.
I see you’ve set aside this special time and place to humiliate yourself in public.
Any connection between you and reality is purely coincidental.
Your powers of observation are akin to those of the bird that keeps slamming into the picture window trying to get that other bird it keeps seeing.
And what meaning do you expect your delusional self-important statements of unknowing, inexperienced opinion to have to us who think and reason? What fantasy do you hold that you would believe that your tiny-fisted tantrums would have more weight than that of a leprous desert rat, spinning rabidly in a circle, waiting for the bite of the snake? You are a waste of flesh.
I will never get over the embarrassment of belonging to the same species as you.

The church is just ‘reaping what it has sown”....deceit, injustice, abuse, cover-up, pride not to mention the rail of damaged people (I am one) still trying to recover and cope after having lost my past, present and future once I tried to deal with it via this oh so wonderful church. Had the church adopted a Christian approach to the victims I really do think we would have avoided all this backlash: The church or the hierarchy have no one but themselves to blame.

And as for it happening in other institutions, yes, of course it does but the big scandal is that no one expected it to happen with in the bastion of morality and self proclaimed closeness to God, peopled by the ontologically changed representatives of Christ we were brainwashed into believing were beyond such horrors.

The church, also, in its constant initial denial and deflection, still going on in its approach to Ireland etc, have only served to raise the ire and suspicion of those who lead it, and therefore, even their underlying theology and ecclesiology. I have NO faith in this church anymore, none. It is a church of masks and utter opposites to the figure and message of Jesus - just open your eyes, for our children’s sake and that of those still reeling after allowing all their pain to finally surface. And while your at it, everyone should read the real stories of real people and families such as Chrissie Foster’s “Hell on the Way to Heaven” before they start trying to deflect the still so unsatisfactorily resolved damage of so many thousands of people. The other institutions can deal with their own.

Anybody/nobody. Thanks for your “nice” comments about me. Did you pick those up at your West Boro Baptist type Church yesterday morning. You have came into Catholic Newspaper site and have started to spout out you anti Catholic bile, If you hate our Church why are you on this site. I would not go on the site of the West Boro Church or the other Catholic hating Church sites, so why are you spreading your hatred on this site. If you feerl you are insulting me by your comments you are not for I care little about you ,for you are a bigot. As i said you are in good company being a Catholic hater, Stalin, Lenin Hitler, Mao, and of course The Westboro Baptist Church, not forgetting the klan and the know nothings

Stephen, To believe that the Catholic Church if full of saints is totally naive. There is the lowest form of pond life in this Church, murderers Rapists, child abusers, war mongerers, hypocrits and more. Also in this Church are some of the finest Christian people you could find in this world, and where am I deflecting the damage done to any child by Catholic Church abuse. Shall I spell it out to you.“I Abhor the Child Abuse committed by the members of the Catholic Clergy and the cover up there of”. Now Stephen I have made myself clear.

Con O Sullivan
MY IRONY METER IS BROKEN!

<marquee behavior=“scroll” direction=“left”>http://www.htmlcodes.me/images/marquees/flying_bat.gif</marquee>

Oh, well graphics don’t work. Happy Halloween!

From con o sullivan:
To believe that the Catholic Church if full of saints is totally naive. There is the lowest form of pond life in this Church, murderers Rapists, child abusers, war mongerers, hypocrits and more. Also in this Church are some of the finest Christian people you could find in this world, and where am I deflecting the damage done to any child by Catholic Church abuse.
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To believe that the ANY PLACE OR INSTITUTION is full of saints is totally naive. There is the lowest form of pond life in this WORLD, murderers Rapists, child abusers, war mongerers, hypocrits and more. Also in this WORLD are some of the finest HUMANISTS you could find in this world, and AND YOU ARE deflecting the damage done to any child by Catholic Church abuse BY YOUR COMMENTS TO YOUR CRITICS:
e.g:
“anyboby or maybe nobody since you are gutless and will not print your name, I wonder if you are a christian and what church do you crawl into every Sunday with you selfrighteous pap, since you may have read the bible(i doubt it ) remember the words of Jesus"Judge not for ye be not judged” Lk 6: 35, but I suppose a hypocrite like you never read those words, so anybody/nobody did you?. So who will be smiling down on who I leave to Almighty God, him and him alone. Thinking about your Anti Catholic hatred, I wonder if you traced your ancertors would you find some one of them would be a member of the “know nothings” or maybe the “Klu Klux klan” who may know perseecuted Catholics as well as African Americans. you sound like a decendent of one of them.”
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If the Catholic Church is no better than any other religion or non-religion, why be a Catholic?

What a joke. The hare krishnas are known to be nutty and don’t exactly enjoy a position of authority in society.  On the other hand, when the Catholic Church, which has a history of pushing itself as some kind of “moral authority” is found to have a long and awful history of child sexual abuse, people WILL and SHOULD talk about it.

Riff. I do not deflect any damage done by Catholic Church abuse, as for being a member of the Catholic, that bis my choice.
Dovit, I see no problem with the abuses done to children by clergy being talked about, so what is your problem

con o sullivan:
Why do you have to personally attack people?

He doesn’t have to—he just likes it!

I bet that some of the haters of Catholicism because of the priests would turn around and say that Islam shouldn’t be judged by its terrorist fringe. I’m so waiting for that one.

No, that’s Fulwiler’s contention—that the heinous, evil acts of some members of an organization shouldn’t ever be considered when judging that organization. By your logic, the acts of a few bad apples shouldn’t be used to judge Islam at all. By your logic, profiling at the airport based on country of origin or organizational affiliations is wrong, unfair and bigoted. According to Fulwiler, just because we know there is a small group of radical fundamentalists among the millions and millions of Muslims around the world, and just because they have a proven track record of disregard for human life, of secrecy and power-mongering, of doing evil to further their own ends, it’s just soooo unfair, wahwahwah, that we focus on Muslims at the airport security line.

I’m all for profiling. I’m all for closing the borders to people from certain countries, to people of certain backgrounds. I have no problem with that whatsoever. That’s not my logic. I have no problem with slamming the door in the face of people who have proven themselves untrustworthy.

There is something intrinsic to the Abraham-based religion that encourages terrorism. They are all based on being the “chosen” people and everybody else is the “other.” So if you are not one of them, you are an enemy. Hence the whining about “anti-Catholic hatred from con o sullivan, et. al.

All organized religions are based on the belief that theirs is the “one, true” religion. Religions are man-made institutions. Belief in God, genuine faith, true faith in God does not require placing one’s trust in what other people say you must think and do in order to be in His favor. That’s a power game, that’s a mind control game. That’s for fear-filled people and for abusive people. Those are the two personality disorders organized religion play into—abusive control freaks and fear-filled little mousey types who need to be told what to do all the time. The abusive control freaks rise to the top and the mindless little mice scurry about scraping and bowing to them 24/7. No room for God at all in that dynamic.

Riff, I am just trying to deduce what kind of a   anti Catholic church anybody attends, and I really do not no of any Church except West Boro Baptist Church that sums up Anydody,s Religion Remember he hates the Catholic Church and its Pope and strange he is hanging around a Catholic news paper site, do you not find that strange

Anybody, but you said some days ago you hated The Catholic Church and its Pope did you not, so I am not whining I am pointing out what you said yourself, now anybody if you dislike the Catholic Church so much, why are you hanging around this Catholic site.
csmc thanks for your theological lecture

Okay, Conman O’Diddle’em, I’ll bite…

Here’s the thing—the way this online paper/bloggy thingy works is traffic = $$$

The most contentious posts, the ones that draw more non-Catholics into a debate, are the ones that make the most filthy lucre for the Register and for the blogger in question (Fulwiler, in this case). They have a vested interest in stirring the pot, in drawing non-Catholics to the site.

They don’t care who or why anyone is here, as long as they add to their ever-lovin’ pursuit of profit.

It’s why this site is here.

Also, not to nitpick, but the blogs at this site and the official newspaper are two different things. Don’t believe me, ask their lawyer.

I am just trying to deduce what kind of a   anti Catholic church anybody attends, and I really do not no of any Church except West Boro Baptist Church that sums up Anydody,s Religion
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Con o sullivan—That’s kind of simplistic—don’t you think?
I don’t need to belong to another hate-mongering church to hate the Catholic church. Do some research, and you might find a lot of other people who are members of perfectly respectable churches or religions that hate the Catholic Church as well—you don’t have to be a Westboro church member, or an atheist for that matter.
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As cmsc wrote, I’m here to stir the pot.

But keep writing - someday you might say something intelligent!

Hey, does anyone here also read the National Catholic Reporter?

It’s much more reasonable than this site, and much less hostile to visitors.

Anybody, I am afraid the only anti Catholic Church I know is the Westboro Baptist Church but then enlighten me will you not of the oter Anti Catholic Churches, as I told you before being Anti Catholic you are in very good company , with the Nazis and Lenin and Stalin and of course the Know nothings and the Klu Klux Klan they were all Anti Catholic, so you have great friends in them

cnsc,Pravda before 1990 would have been the ideal paper for you and anybody/nobody.

Oh, but Anybody, don’t you see—if you’re not Catholic, you MUST be a member of the Westboro Baptist Church and/or the Ku Klux Klan! Those are the only options! LOL! And you must be a Lenin/Stalin/Hitler sympathizer, too. Because nothing else is possible in Conman O’Diddle’em’s tiny little alcohol addled pea-brain.

The Reporter is okay. At least they recognize the enormity of the KC situation and at least they don’t try to defend the Church with the “they did it too” excuse.

It’s all bad.

The only decent human response to the abuse scandal is to stop feeding the Catholic Church money and future victimes. They had a zillion chances to make things right and they chose not to. Time to cut them off.

Anybody, I am afraid the only anti Catholic Church I know is the Westboro Baptist Church but then enlighten me will you not of the oter Anti Catholic Churches, as I told you before being Anti Catholic you are in very good company , with the Nazis and Lenin and Stalin and of course the Know nothings and the Klu Klux Klan they were all Anti Catholic, so you have great friends in them.

If you can’t find other anti-Catholics, that’s your problem. Learn how to use the internet—I don’t work for you and I pity you if you think you think your blanket statements mean anything.
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If ignorance is bliss, you must be the happiest person on earth, but don’t you have an awfully empty feeling, in your skull?

cmsc: Well, someone told me about “progressive” Catholics and I thought maybe—now that I think of it, that must have been a joke on me.
‘
Con o sullivan is in good company with Ann Coulter and Glen Beck.

When bishops can be relied on to be truthful, & priests, religious, & nuns, to be the last people on earth who would molest the laity, those stereotypes will end. But not till then. The clergy brought this on themselves - let them clean up their own mess ! It would be nice if those who have made all this possible could act as if they were Christians; but one can’t expect the impossible.

For everyone’s sake, open comments on internet journals must stop. What a read these comments are, and, as usual, generate lots of heat and little light. Here’s the problem: neither you, nor I, nor Jen have any idea who the people are who write these comments. I could be Jen, or Bishop Finn, or cmsc for all you know. I don’t care if you use your real name, or say you’re using your real name; that means nothing on the internet.
I’m starting my Lenten penance early: no more reading of or contributing to “comments” sections of writings on the internet.
Starting…...now!
P.S. No offense to you, Jen, I enjoy reading the things you write.

Okay, really starting….now!

@KW:

My real name is not John.  Ha. 

I scrolled right to the bottom of the comments when I saw how many there were.  I am glad to see your comment, KW.  I couldn’t agree with you more.  There is certainly a place for this kind of commentary…HOWEVER….I would love to see a web site that actually only puts out positive comments.  If you don’t agree with the point of view, and if you always see the same point of view but hate it, you would read something else.  This would leave the people who enjoy that site in peace, whilst others could start their own blog, etc. with THEIR views.

This would be very similar to reading… A BOOK!  When you are reading a book - there is no one suddenly coming onto your page to interrupt you and say, Hey this is stupid, etc.

KW - you ALSO make a very good point about lent and these comments.  I have actually found myself in the past spending way too much time on these in an effort to be helpful to people.  But you know what?  Some people don’t care.  They have their views and they do not want debate, they want to bully. So, I have to severely limit myself on how and when I comment and read.

I will put it this way:  My spiritual director and I were talking.  I told him that I felt that I really should be going to adoration at a certain time, but it conflicted with my job, and there was no other time to get there.  This WONDERFUL priest actually told me to be careful.  That my first duty to God is to serve Him by fulfilling my obligations as a good husband and father.  As good as it would be to go to adoration, then, it would be bad if I did it while failing in my duties.

That made a lot of sense to me, but I had never thought that, sometimes, you can take something that is a good, but use it in a way that it becomes a problem.  The same is true with these web sites and blogs.  They are good - and certainly these bloggers here are EXCELLENT!  however, if you spend hours and hours here (banging your head against the wall getting nowhere with malcontents) you may be wasting your time and actually not doing some OTHER good you should be.

Thanks for bringing this up and good luck!  (Now I am off to other duties! :)

“csmc” stands for something meaningful to me and has nothing to do with a name.

KW, these comboxes mean income for the Register and for Fulwiler.

You don’t seriously think they’re going away anytime soon, do you?

It’s all about the cold, hard cash with this crew. This “new media” world is all about endless self promotion, clicking campaigns, optimizing search engine results, unique hits, traffic and advertising sales.

Believe me, none of this ever had anything to do with God. It’s all about sales, marketing, brands, advertising.

@John

You’re not talking about a book. You’re talking about propaganda.

Fulwiler whitewashes a hideous era of crimes perpetrated against innocents by men who claim to be acting in persona Christi and the systematic covering up of those crimes.

That sort of evil propaganda needs to be refuted. The other side needs to be heard.

Do you think God is going to silence the victims of your Church’s evil deeds? Do you think God thinks aiding and abetting the cover up is a good thing? What do you think God will have to say to Fulwiler when she proudly and pompously tells him she helped to keep the crimes of child rapists secret in order to save the reputation of an earthly institution she places higher than God?

Don’t bother answering—it’s a trick question because God already gave His answer. It’s in that book, you know, that “Bible” thing you Catholics superceded with doctrine and dogma.

You can go to church or read books and news papers anytime you want—a forum is for expressing opinions, not preaching to the choir. If you would rather “serve God” by being with your family (which you obviously wouldn’t know you should be doing if a priest hadn’t told you so),let us have our conversation.
As a side—did you come up with the idea of reading a book all by yourself?

csmc. First of all my name is Con O Sullivan, and I only rarely drink alcahol, as I said I am not hide my name behind a non -de plume, but then calling me this disguisting name says more about you than it does about me.

Really, “Con”? Hey, you’re the one telling anyone who isn’t a Catholic or who takes issue with the Catholic Church’s track record on child abuse that they must be a member of the KKK and/or the Westboro Baptist Church, or an atheist who supports the actions of Stalin and Lenin.

Right back atcha, guy. Right back atcha.

There is no dialogue to be had with the likes of Fulwiler, JoAnna, Anna Lisa, Desdemona, you, et al.

You bury your heads in the sand, you deflect, blame, pont fingers, lie, and in the menatime, more children are violated on your own watch. Nice.

You know, csmc, you make sweeping statements and draw conclusions about people, i.e. that Fulwiler is trying to keep the accusations about priests silent and that she places the institution of the Church higher than God.  There is NOTHING that Jennifer said that would lead any REASONABLE person to conclude that she is trying to cover anything up or places the Church higher than God.  To the contrary, she stated,
“I don’t know that I would necessarily advocate for less coverage of this kind of wrongdoing within the Church. The sexual assault of a child, or any similar offense, is a grave crime against humanity that we cannot take seriously enough.”  You are nothing but an “attack” dog and a “bully” as John described earlier.  Your illogical and “foaming at the mouth” rants do nothing to add to any rational conversation.

To its detriment, as a human institution the Church has experienced widespread failures of its representatives before (i.e. the clerical abuses of the middle ages and those which brought about the Protestant Reformation).  But those failures also contributed to the formation and subsequent prominence of some of our greatest saints, such as St Catherine of Siena, Saint Theresa of Avila and Saint Thomas More to mention a few.  Renewals follwed the falls.  That certainly doesn’t mitigate the pain of those who suffered at the hands of the abusers; the suffering and betrayal of the little ones who should have been guarded and cherished is, as we all here agree, must have been/be extraordinarily difficult to live through.  Our Lord said “But he that shall scandalize one of these little ones that believe in me, it were better for him that a millstone should be hanged about his neck, and that he should be drowned in the depth of the sea.”  NO ONE here disagrees with that - the priests that were guilty of these abuses will certainly face heavenly judgement after their criminal judgments now that I don’t want to contemplate.  csmc you ignored my earlier post about all of the good that the Church has done throughout the centuries.  Despite the failings of the few (5% of all priests, if you are to believe the statistics - which I don’t - I think it’s less), the Church has contributed untold wealth around the world in its charitable, educational, medical, scientific institutions.  The cost of the public education alone that was saved during the primary years of the baby boom generation because of the existence of Catholic elementary and secondary schools is incalculable.  But csmc, you tell us that we won’t go away because “none of this ever had anything to do with God. It’s all about sales, marketing, brands, advertising.”  You really spew a poison that is so slanted and biased that you can’t expect to be taken seriously.  Again, more sweeping conclusions with so much evidence to the contrary.  You really think that John Paul II was part of a conspiracy?  The whole world recognizes his selflessness and holiness.  And St Theresa of Calcutta - both these saints were given to us in this “generation” and both lived exemplary lives of Christian love and charity.  You think they were here for the “cold, hard cash?”

cmsc, twisting my name is such an abuseive fashion and making comments about me and alcohol says every thing about you I want know. That is it

Satan loves it when you are angry, when you hate.

God loves it when you forgive.

Like I said, Con, don’t dish it out if you can’t take it.

Desdemona

There is nowhere, in either of Fulwiler’s posts re the sex scandal, a single acknowledgment of the actual, real, live victims of the abuse scandal.

She can’t even bring herself to call the rape of a child a specific crime against a specific human being. It’s all just some sort of “crime against humanity” disclaimer thingy.

Has she read the various grand jury reports? Has she read the specifics of the actual abuse perpetrated by actual priests who’d been shuffled around by actual bishops? Does she know the name of even a single victim? Did she ever bother to research THAT side of the story when she was researching statistics and numbers?

You yourself deny the enormity of the situation—with every statistic point you don’t believe, you completely blow off the real human beings those statistics represent. You don’t care any more than Fulwiler does about actual, real, live humans. Oh, fetuses, theoretical life, lipservice to “life”, some trite, vague nonsense about how child abuse is bad, blahblahblah, sure, but genuine compassion and sympathy and some attempt at empathy for actual human beings your precious priests and bishops used in the most vile ways imaginable? Not one stinking word. Not one. You, Fulwiler, and all you other priest-worshippers are all the same—cold, dead eyes, cold, dead hearts, and lying, dirty mouths.

Proverbs 6 16-19

Go read it. You’ll find yourself staring right back.

You protect your buildings and your institution and your hierarchies and your disgusting priests, and you defile the innocent with your proud, arrogant schemes to cover up the evil that resides in your churches.

Shame on you.

And, yes, I do believe JP II and Benedict knew all about the actions of the priests and bishops during their papacies. Absolutely. I think anyone who doesn’t think they didn’t know is a crackhead.

But you can’t bring yourself to believe any of it because your faith is in these mere men, not God. For you, God and the institution of the Catholic Church are one and the same. That’s your biggest sin—idolatry.

God exists outside your ugly, evil institution. God exists fully and completely in ways you can’t even begin to wrap your head around. He can be present how, when and where He chooses, without the permission of the dirty men of your institution.

God is above all, above the popes, above the bishops, above the priests, above the NC Register, above that riduclously stupid Fulwiler creature, above you.

God has complete and full relationships with people who have nothing to do with your institution, and He doesn’t have to play by your rules regarding those relationships. Kind of sucks for control freaks like you, but there it is. Too bad for you.

All, —Several references have been made concerning the Westboro Baptist Church located in Topeka, KS.  It might interest you to know that their entire congregation consists of about 50 or so people and a large share of the congregation are all family and relatives.  We should hardly view them as indicative of most Protestants nor should we use abuse having occurred in the Catholic church as indicative of the vast majority of clergy.  It is unfair to paint everyone with the same broad brush.

Lector

We can view the bishop cover up, however, as indicative of the attitude of the hierarchy, given how widespread and for how long this cover up went on. It spans decades and continents. That’s not just a few lone operators. That’s an organization-wide problem, and the Kansas City situation proves that the promises the Church made were a load of BS.

Now that we know nothing has changed regarding the abuse scandal, we also know we still don’t really know who is and who isn’t an abusing priest.

As long as there are parishioners willing to turn a blind eye (like those STILL supporting Ratigan and Finn in spite of the public record of the offenses), as long as there are bishops like Finn who put image first and the safety of children last, the Catholic Church remains an evil place that is dangerous to children.

Desdemona:
If you think all priests are being vilified because of a few bad apples, you are also saying they all should be revered because of a few shining examples. Neither position is justified.
Teachers, high school coaches, boy/girl scout leaders are all under suspicion when someone in their trusted position commits abuse, and the authorities are quick to change regulations and find way to prevent further abuses. Also, the people who commit those abuses are no longer allowed to be teachers, coaches, or scout leaders, etc. and must sign up as sex offenders in a register. They don’t get moved to other schools or districts.  The Catholic Church has not changed anything about how it works. If abuses stopped, it’s because some are starting to get caught. I haven’t heard anything about Father Ratigan or Bishop Finn getting excommunicated, although Finn is being “encouraged to resign.”
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John
Satan loves it when you are angry, when you hate.
God loves it when you forgive.
There are somethings that are not forgivable and should not be forgotten or they will happen again. Will God forgive Satan?

We are not God.  We must forgive.  We must love the unlovable and forgive the unforgivable.  Satan hates your guts.  he wants you to stew in the acid of your own hatred until it consumes you and destroys….your ability to forgive, to love. 

Don’t feed the monster.  Cut him off from the hatred that sustains him.

Turning a blind eye to the truth and protecting those who would hurt children out of misplaced loyalties sustains Satan, too, John.

The only response any Catholic should ever have had towards the abuse scandal is absolute horror and a deep commitment to do whatever it takes to see that it never happens again.

Instead, we saw Catholic after Catholic blaming the victims, blaming society, blaming the psychology of the day, and excusing the filth in the Catholic Church by pointing to other institutions and whining about how they do it too.

You think that doesn’t sustain Satan?

csmc - Nowhere did I say that I worshipped priests.  Again, you make a sweeping statement not even close to the truth.  You can’t read my mind or my heart - nor anyone else’s for that matter.  How do you know what I think or feel about the victims of these abuses? I said earlier that I had been abused as a very young child - I was 4 years old and I was abused by several teenagers in my neighborhood.  The effects were long-lasting and I spent several years in counseling trying to resolve my problems; I have a great deal of empathy and compassion for those people WHO WERE TRULY ABUSED.  I’m not minimizing the abuse - ONE case of abuse is too many.  However, there are false accusations:  from the site themediareport.com, “In a stunning ten-page declaration recently submitted to the Los Angeles County Superior Court, veteran attorney Donald H. Steier stated that his investigations into claims of sexual abuse by Catholic priests have uncovered vast fraud and that his probes have revealed that many accusations are completely false.

Counselor Steier has played a role in over one hundred investigations involving Catholic clergy in Los Angeles. In his missive Mr. Steier relayed, “One retired F.B.I. agent who worked with me to investigate many claims in the Clergy Cases told me, in his opinion, about ONE-HALF of the claims made in the Clergy Cases were either entirely false or so greatly exaggerated that the truth would not have supported a prosecutable claim for childhood sexual abuse” (capital letters are his).

Mr. Steier also added, “In several cases my investigation has provided objective information that could not be reconciled with the truthfulness of the subjective allegations. In other words, in many cases objective facts showed that accusations were false.”

You say that I and Jennifer are “priest-worshippers”, I “don’t care about actual, real, live humans,” just fetuses.  And exactly how do you know who or what I care about?  Again, do you think you can read my mind?  I have repeatedly expressed my sympathy for the victims of this abuse.  I mentioned earlier that I was abused myself, as a very young child - I was about 4 or 5 years old and I was abused by several teenagers.  It took me years of counseling both when I was a child and then when I was an adult to resolve and recover my peace of mind; not to blame myself or anybody else and to forgive the boys who abused me.  I think I come from an appropriate perspective to empathize with the victims, although the enormous sense of betrayal, as I have stated earlier, is not comprehensible.  How dare you minimize MY EXPERIENCES OR FEELINGS?  I have not minimized yours! You call my words “trite, vague nonsense.”  How dare you!  Do you think that you are alone in your suffering, that somehow because you were a victim that you can label ALL PRIESTS disgusting?  You accuse me of idolatry - again, how dare you?  That’s the same anti-Catholic nonsense that Jack Chick has been spewing for years - pure, unadulterated anti-Catholic venom. Again, I ask you - you obviously hate Catholics - so why do you post here?  And MY INTERPRETATION (and educated guess) is that YOU want to spew hatred and discord.  Not exactly the “fruit” of which the Lord speaks, is it?  And you of me and Jennifer Fulwiler you say “cold, dead eyes, cold, dead hearts, and lying, dirty mouths.”  I’ve never lied in anything I’ve said.  You’ve labeled ALL PRIESTS as disgusting, the Church as “an evil institution.”  You can’t admit that ANY priest has been a good man? Not one?  And that the Church has done ANY good in the world?  I am sorry for your pain, but it has clouded your mind and your heart.

Anybody:  You said to me that “If you think all priests are being vilified because of a few bad apples, you are also saying they all should be revered because of a few shining examples. Neither position is justified.”  You’re another one - I didn’t say that all priests should be revered - where did you get that?  That’s another conclusion that YOU made - I never said that.  I revere priests that live lives of holiness, goodness, self-sacrifice and prayer.  I do, praise God, know quite a few of them. 

You said “The Catholic Church has not changed anything about how it works. If abuses stopped, it’s because some are starting to get caught.”
The NCCB established new guidelines quite a few years ago about reporting priest abusers - if anyone reports abuse to the diocesan office, that case is supposed to be referred to the local prosecutor - or police department, I don’t recall which - but the point is, they are to refer the case.  And that is exactly what has been happening - the situation in Kansas City is an exception.  JoAnna, who also lives in Phoenix, can attest to the fact that our Bishop has referred at least 2 or 3 cases recently.  I would like to point out that there have been no indictments or arrests and that these abuse cases allegedly occurred 25-40 years ago and are based on “recovered, repressed memories.” 

And Anybody, during the years that the Catholic bishops were transferring priests from parish to parish, pedophilia was thought to be a psychological problem and treatable. (And so was homosexuality.)  The psychologists that the bishops referred these men to reported TO THE BISHOPS that this was a disease, an illness, and it was possible to treat it.  Many priests were sent to treatment centers operated by psychologists and they were subsequently reported as “cured.”  Hindsight is 20-20.  It was a heck of a mistake and situations like Geoghan were inexcusable; those priests should have been removed immediately and defrocked. But the bishops were going on the best psychiatric, psychological advice that was promulgated at the time.  It wasn’t just priests that underwent treatment for this; it was only many years later that the psychologists understood that they were dealing with a problem with a high recidivism rate that was incurable.  Now they use behavior modification but that’s not very successful.

The Church HAS changed the way it does business - it now has extensive psychological testing for seminarians to weed out “sexually immature or confused” cadidates; it encourages prospective seminarians to live “in the world” before seeking the priesthood.  But that testing has not been in existence for a long time - it came about because of the abuse crisis; the Church is trying to deal with the problem.

And I bring it right back to Kansas City. Ratigan is a relatively new priest, and Finn was held up as a stellar bishop. Oopsies!

Desdemona, why should I believe you about your abuse when you’ve already stated you don’t believe the statistics representing abuse in the Catholic Church? You can’t blow off victims of abuse by priests and then expect us to give a damn about you, you know. What goes around comes around.

You make it clear you care more about your institution with every word you write. You say you revere good and holy priests, but how do you know which ones are good and holy and which ones are hiding evil crimes? How would any of us know? After Kansas City, all we know is that nothing has changed at all, no matter how many times you claim it has.

All hatred comes from the evil one.  All hatred.  All hatred.  God does not want this.

Does God need help in delivering His PERFECT Justice? 

Can God deliver His justice to those who reject Him and harm his precious “little ones” without you? 

Jesus Himself is MERCY - infinite mercy.  Does ANYONE deserve His mercy? - yet He gives it.

Have love.  Have forgiveness.  Have Mercy.  Have Peace.

anybody, So teachers who abuse Children are no longer allowed to teach, well tell me did you everhear the words “Pass The Trash”, that is used when teachers who abuse Children are passed aound to othere schools, it is widespread in the New York Public School system. You should look up your facts before you spout out your lies.

csmc, well I can give it out all right. Tell me o truthfull one where is your evidence that John Paul and Benedict knew about the Child abuse. Come you are quick to abuse people let us have some facts, and where is your evidence linking me to alcohol drinking, come on tells us,i CAN DISH IT OUT ALRIGHT, AND i AM NOT TELLING ANYONE WHO IS NOT A cATHOLIC THAT THEY ARE MEMBERS OF WESTBORO, ALL i AM TELLING THAT wEST BORO hITLER lENIN AND STALIN WERE CATHOLIC HATERS AND THEY HAVE SOMETHING IN COMMON WITH YOU. what are you hiding behind a false name for,Have you something to hide, now answers the questions?

Peace

csmc - You call my words “trite, vague nonsense”, that I and Jennifer “don’t care about actual, real live humans.”  And I have no empathy for the victims.  I wrote earlier that I was abused as a young child, I was 4 or 5 years old.  It took me years of counseling both as a child and as an adult to recover peace of mind.  I may be imperfect at expressing it, but I’m certainly empathetic.  I can’t know the sense of betrayal, but I can certainly relate to the violation.  How dare you call me or Jennifer “cold, dead eyes, cold, dead hearts, and lying, dirty mouths.”  Nothing I or she wrote were lies.  You project yourself: why oh why do you post on a Catholic website when you so clearly hate Catholics?  You, who profess to read my mind, my heart and accuse me of idolatry?  I’ll do a little educated guessing (only the Lord can read hearts and minds); you post here because you will find Catholics and you can spew venom and bile, sow hatred and discord. You call all priests disgusting and the Catholic Church an evil institution.  No priest has ever been a good man?  The Church has never done any good?  Not any?  Not ever?  THOSE are lies - you are lying to yourself.  Nothing I or Jennifer wrote were lies.  I know one thing more, you know little of Christ; you claim you have a relationship with Him?  We are told to empty ourselves and let the Holy Spirit work in us.  The only spirit I see in you is not holy; the only fruit I see is hatred.  That’s not Christ working in you.  I’m sorry for your pain, but it has clouded your mind and heart.  And as for statistics:  see themediareport.com.  ‘In a stunning ten-page declaration recently submitted to the Los Angeles County Superior Court, veteran attorney Donald H. Steier stated that his investigations into claims of sexual abuse by Catholic priests have uncovered vast fraud and that his probes have revealed that many accusations are completely false.  Counselor Steier has played a role in over one hundred investigations involving Catholic clergy in Los Angeles. In his missive Mr. Steier relayed, “One retired F.B.I. agent who worked with me to investigate many claims in the Clergy Cases told me, in his opinion, about ONE-HALF of the claims made in the Clergy Cases were either entirely false or so greatly exaggerated that the truth would not have supported a prosecutable claim for childhood sexual abuse” (capital letters are his).  Mr. Steier also added, “In several cases my investigation has provided objective information that could not be reconciled with the truthfulness of the subjective allegations. In other words, in many cases objective facts showed that accusations were false.”’  ONE-HALF OF THE CLAIMS MADE ... WERE EITHER ENTIRELY FALSE OR SO GREATLY EXAGGERATED THAT THE TRUTH WOULD NOT HAVE SUPPORTED A PROSECUTABLE CLAIM…  That’s a pretty amazing statement. 
Anybody:  You do the same thing - you wrote “If you think all priests are being vilified because of a few bad apples, you are also saying they all should be revered because of a few shining examples. Neither position is justified.”  First, I don’t revere all priests; I revere the priests that live holy, spiritual, prayerful, self-sacrifing lives - who reflect the humility and love I associate with Christ.  I do believe that all priests are being vilified.  You don’t think that csmc isn’t vilifying all priests when she writes that all priests are “disgusting” and calls them the “dirty men of your institution?”  Sure sounds like vilification to me.  And they most certainly have been vilified in the media.  When a priest is accused, it makes the first page of the paper; when he is cleared, it’s buried or not reported at all.  As far as the Church “not changing anything about how it works” that’s not true.  The NCCB adoped rules that require all dioceses to report priests to the civil authorities if they receive abuse claims against them.  I am most familiar with the Phoenix diocese -I know that Bishop Olmstead has referred abuse cases and has a good relationship with the civil authorities.  Furthermore, the seminaries now require thorough psychological testing to root out any candidates who are sexually immature or confused - the issues that seemed to be the root of the issues with the priests who were ordained in the 50’s, 60’s and later, who shouldn’t have been because of unhealthy sexual attitudes or apetites.  Also, they promote living in the world longer before entering the seminary.  I’d like to point out that while the bishops didn’t remove pedophile priests they did seek treatment for them.  At the time that a lot of the abuse took place, psychologists promulgated the theory that pedophilia was a disease, an illness, and that it could be cured.  Many of the abuser priests were sent to treatment centers.  They had the same idea about homosexuality.  Excesses like Geoghan and others should never have occurred, and I’m not trying to excuse those situations, but hindsight is 20-20 and the bishops were going with what they were told.  The psychological and psychiatric institutions have never suffered the scrutiny they deserve over this debacle.

csmc - You have the nerve to tell me that I was not abused - that I am making it up - that “why should you believe me?”  You have a freaking nerve - shall I describe it to you? How the boys took me into the woods across the street from my home, took down my pants and did a little exploring?  Would you like the address, the names of the boys, the street names, the names of my doctors, the name of the construction contractor who discovered it because he looked down from the roof of a home being expanded upon and saw them?  How about the date and the year?

csmc-And how do I know good and holy priests?  Are you blind, are you deaf?  Can’t you tell a good man from a bad one?  It seems to me that the Bible says we can “read the times”; when certain events occur, we will know it to be the end times.  You can’t judge good from bad?  You really think that spiritual, prayerful men are hiding crimes?  When priests bring people to God incessantly, preach the Gospel daily, lead their people in prayer daily, offer special devotions weekly, speak mercifully during the Sacrament of Penance and reflect the wisdom and spirit of God, I call them good.

And oh, by the way, I don’t believe that priests are the only men capable of being good, holy men.  I believe that many lay people, Protestant pastors and people are good, holy men.

csmc, I really think you should leave this site, you have contributed to it only pouring your abuse on people you would be fit to sit in the same room as, are you satified in the upset you caused Desdemona, does it make you feel good, where is your evidence about John Paul and Benedict, where is your evidence about me abusing alcohol, how many more people will you abuse to get your kicks, In the name of God leave this site, and take your Anti Catholic hatred with you.

The Vatican did not recommend psychological testing of candidates until 2008, well after Ratigan’s ordination.  The bishop did remove him from the parish he was serving and put him at a convent, ordered him not to have any contact with children and turned him in when they discovered he attended a child’s birthday party.  Soon enough?  No, but they didn’t ignore the sitation either.

Con o sullivan and Desdemona:
I just replaced my irony meter and you broke it again.
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Con, you find documented proof of the “Pass the Trash” and show it here, if you want to make a point.
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Desdemona—how can you tell a good man from a bad man until AFTER he has done something good or bad? John Wayne Gacy was thought to be a good man until they found the bodies.
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cmsc—be careful. Desdemona is getting on your nerves my taking some of your phrases out of context. She would argue with a signpost.
Both Desdemona and con are getting back into their defensive rat mode.
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John—If Jesus forgives everyone, even if they don’t deserve it, what is the point of his suffering? He might as well not exist if he doesn’t respond except by forgiving. What happened to the notion that he would separate the good from the evil when the end comes?
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Do not argue with an idiot. He will drag you down to his level and beat you with experience.

anybody bigjournalism.com/jhudnall/.../the-child-molester-scandal-that-wasnt  
  www.msnbc.msn.com/.../ap-sexual-misconduct-plagues
www.philadelphiaweekly.com › ... › COVER STORY
www.examiner.com/.../gross-misconduct-and-negligence-the-public

Is that enough evidence for you or would you like some more, plenty documented proof for you there, and a well as Pass the trash we have school teachers being reffered to as mobile molesters, and have you heard of the “rubber Rooms, you have not? let me refresh you, these are places where abusive teachers are kept, who are not allowed teach yet costs the Education system 65 dollars in New York alone, and that is not counting the rest of the USA, that figure shows.  No such thing as prison for these people.

Well, con, I tried to check them out and all I got was “404 not found”—but I Googled “Pass the Trash” teachers and got a more recent post. No question that it happened.
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However, laws that enabled this horrific practice are being changed because of the lawsuits against the school districts involved.
From the site:.http://legalclips.nsba.org/?p=3707
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The GAO report points to several reasons why individuals with histories of misconduct slip through the hiring system and end up in schools. In some cases, school districts allow teachers who might have been fired or disciplined for sexually inappropriate actions to resign. This means that these employees are able to truthfully tell new employers that they had never been fired from a previous position. In 10 of the 15 cases documented by the GAO, school officials did not conduct performance background checks prior to hiring the individuals in question.

“The documents we reviewed and the individuals we spoke with indicated that the schools chose to forgo these checks for a variety of reasons,” the GAO said, “including that they felt the process was too time-consuming and costly, or that the positions in question would not require daily interaction with children.” But those officials were often mistaken. In some of the cases, another pattern of abuse followed. In other instances, school districts’ criminal background checks were simply inadequate.
.

The Mail Tribune reported in July 2010 that the Oregon legislature had passed a statute effective July 1 aimed at ending the practice in which an educator facing discipline for misconduct may negotiate a deal with a school district to resign in exchange for the district concealing his or her record of misconduct. The law requires districts to send a form to a job candidate’s three previous employers requesting disclosure of any past incidents of sexual misconduct, including resignations in lieu of terminations. School districts also are bound by law to furnish that information within 20 days.

Please tell me what is being changed in the institution of the Catholic Church in response to its sexual abuse scandal. That is one of the reasons for my protest—I have not seen any changes in policy to prevent any further abuse and/or excommunicate (which is obviously the “worst” punishment the church can inflict) priests who are abusers.
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I guess we can both be pretty sure that the teachers who were the actual abusers went to prison. It is not a public record that any of the administrators who allowed them to resign without a mark on their records, and/or failed to follow up on background checks, but it is being investigated, just as Bishop Finn is being investigated for his role. Finn, like any other defendant, is being given due process.
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Congratulations for finally showing you have something of a brain.
.

anybody   Also, the people who commit those abuses are no longer allowed to be teachers, coaches, or scout leaders, etc. and must sign up as sex offenders in a register. They don’t get moved to other schools or districts
Above is your quotation on last Wednesday, why you have now changed your mind have you not, and why don’t you goole rubber rooms, and since you think your precious teachers are so clean why do not you google Dr Charol Shakeshaft , A synthosis of Existing Literature, Doctor is a Lectuer in Hofstra university Long Island. and read that document
In fact to save you googling I have paisted another for you.
Charol Shakeshaft, the Hofstra University scholar who prepared the report, said the number of abuse cases—which range from unwanted sexual comments to rape—could be much higher.

“So we think the Catholic Church has a problem?” she told industry newspaper Education Week in a March 10 interview.

To support her contention, Shakeshaft compared the priest abuse data with data collected in a national survey for the American Association of University Women Educational Foundation in 2000. Extrapolating data from the latter, she estimated roughly 290,000 students experienced some sort of physical sexual abuse by a school employee from a single decade—1991-2000. That compares with about five decades of cases of abusive priests.

Such figures led her to contend “the physical sexual abuse of students in schools is likely more than 100 times the abuse by priests.”

Of course, anybody I do not think you gave a damn about Child abuse any where, you are just a Catholic hater as you admitted yourself, so take a bit of time and read the article, and please leave this Catholic site for you are not wanted here, and take your anti Catholic hatred with you

But we place so much more trust in priests than we would the UPS man or even a school teacher. They are our spiritual guides, closer to God than the rest of us, and should be held to much higher expectations. It is appalling that any man would sexually abuse a child, but far more so should a priest abuse his power in this way.
M.Baker
Ashland, Oregon

con o sullivan

Above is your quotation on last Wednesday, why you have now changed your mind have you not, and why don’t you goole rubber rooms, and since you think your precious teachers are so clean why do not you google Dr Charol Shakeshaft , A synthosis of Existing Literature, Doctor is a Lectuer in Hofstra university Long Island. and read that document.

I never said that “teachers are so clean”, only that priests and the Catholic church are no better. But I am impressed—I think this is the only web document you ever posted that was not connected with a Catholic organization, and was therefore unbiased. Here is another post you might be interested to read:

http://www.bishop-accountability.org/reports/2011_05_18_John_Jay_Causes_and_Context_Report.pdf

To save you another rant, I will past this part of it:

“...Despite the media focus
on child sexual abuse by Catholic priests, it is clear that
these abuse acts are a small percentage of all child sexual
abuse incidents in the United States. Nonetheless, it is
important to understand why the Catholic Church experienced
an increase in abuse behavior at a particular point
in time, and the body of this report evaluates the increase
and subsequent decline in the abuse of minors by Catholic
priests from historical, sociological, psychological, and
situational perspectives.”

So we have no argument that, in the U.S., other organizations combined had a greater percentage of abuse than the Catholic church alone. The point is, the abuse did happen, and this article gives reasons why the public is focused more on Catholic abuse than others. Also, victims were more likely to be disbelieved and the abuse was more likely to be covered up or downplayed because the church was more concerned with its reputation. It was simply unthinkable for a priest to be abusive because he was a “man of God.” The abuse had to reach a very high peak before the scandal broke, and the public is naturally more shocked. Martine expressed this point well.

Of course, anybody I do not think you gave a damn about Child abuse any where, you are just a Catholic hater as you admitted yourself, so take a bit of time and read the article, and please leave this Catholic site for you are not wanted here, and take your anti Catholic hatred with you

You’re F**ting again.

I think the reason that so many pew Catholics are so frustrated with this story is that is has been bandied about for SOOO long.  Popes and bishops and laity have been apologizing, mea culpa-ing and paying off claims for so many years that it is beyond tiresome.  Honestly, how many papal apologies/studies/supposed new revelations do people expect???  When the Archdiocese of Boston published the names of all priests ever accused of sexual misconduct, there were accusations from the 1930’s - really, what other denomination/occupation/group gets this kind of scrutiny????  This utter overkill in the media is why some failthful Catholics like me look around at the rest of society for similar reprehensible, but sadly universal, crimes and transgressions against children.

Let’s stay focused on the child victims.  Where are children most at risk TODAY for sexual abuse? In their own homes, at the hands of their mother’s boyfriends.  The media reports these sad cases serially, but who links it all together to the breakdown of marriage/family?  The Catholic Church, for one…

It just makes me so sick that there is no balance in reporting. Every religious group faced this mess as well.  Even governmental funded organizations (e.g. schools, colleges, etc) faced this mess as well.
What makes our Church different is that none of these other groups claims to be the earthly representative of our Lord Jesus himself. No other group claims infallibility.  This set the Church above these other groups, thus making the Church a greater target for scrutiny. 
I hope this all gets resolved and that all bad ‘closed door’ are exposed with proper penance.

Well, the mainstream is getting a taste of it’s own medicine with the Penn State incidient.  Unfortunately, the children have suffered greatly over the cover-ups and lack of people having guts to report what this man was doing to boys.

Everyone from the media to athiests have had a field day bashing the Catholic church regarding the child abuse scandals—Now, it has hit the ever-loving industry american mainstream people spend tons of money, time and Super Bowl parties on—Football.

The football industry has been saturated with players that are theives, rapist, domestic violence situations and substance abuse-Yet no one cares and subjects their children to this.  For years, Super Bowl half-time shows have been fill with filth and “waredrobe malfuntions.”  And that coach with the bad additude and toliet with a mouth over at Notre Dame?—don’t get me started!

Now, the football industry has a, ahem, hardcore situation on their hands by allowing a man to numerously rape young boys.  Why did they allow this man to shower with kids?  Why would a janitor turn a blind eye and not help stop a man that pinned a boy against the wall and performed a sex act on him?  The poeple that didn’t do anything to help the children are not better than the man that did the crime—for, in their own way, they condoled this behavior. 

Maybe all this acceptance of “alternative” lifestyles, gay marriage and transgenders like Chaz Bono being able to parade themselves on TV and everyone enbracing this filth is not influencing people to feel that having sex with children with be the next acceptable thing to do?—Since, for years, it seems many knew of this Penn State’s coaches behavior.  How sad, weak and pathetic these people were to let this man scare so many kids—especially since they were known as “at risk” children. 

I just wonder?  With this incident, will people in droves stop going to football games like they have stopped going to church?  Seems that’s the norm in America and the media—shun and blame ALL when something bad happens—and forget the good that is done by an organization. 

Maybe this incident with open people’s eyes of things going too far and that you can’t blame the whole over a few crumbdumbs like pervert priests and football coaches.

I pray for these children and that justice will be served to all that has done such terrible things.

My father-in-law was a public school teacher for 25 yrs who molested God knows how many children.  When a child was finally brave enough to report the matter, the fiend was allowed to retire with a full, state funded pension, move away to another town, and have the whole mess covered up.  He was never charged with a crime and I’m sure the Superintendent slept fine.  It’s more horrible when it’s a priest who is the abuser but the cover-ups happen everywhere.  No one wants to address the exploitation of children in our society.

Balance in reporting? How about balance in the comments section?  Why delete posts if they are within the guidelines? 

Must not like people being influenced. 

Interesting.

The Penn State scandal…I can only say…THANK GOD that has been brought to light!  Similar pattern as the church scandal…shine the light and watch all the cockroaches scatter.

“Posted by lighthouse on Tuesday, Nov 8, 2011 11:43 PM (EDT):Balance in reporting? How about balance in the comments section?  Why delete posts if they are within the guidelines? 

Must not like people being influenced. 

Interesting.”

—CNN doesn’t post many of my comments on their blogs—If it isn’t “policially correct” = they won’t post it…Yet their posts are FILLED with poeple bashing GOD and religion!! 

I rely more on FOX news than CNN now….

I think the salient point is the discrepancy in reporting by the media.  In South Carolina, the largest sex-abuse suit in history, and the largest suit against any non-profit in state history, was against Episcopalian Porter Gaud School, involving more than a decade of abuse by a teacher, with the knowledge of the headmaster, and the suicide of one of the parties before the case went to court.  This has not received national headlines.  Read the autobiography of C. S. Lewis or just about anyone else who’s gone to an English boarding school to know what goes on in the Church of England.  Yet it’s always the Catholic Church.
Where are the cries against the APA for all the psychologists who told the bishops these priests were “cured”? 
Child sexual abuse is horrible.  So are birth control, abortion and homosexuality, and anyone who supports these things is a hypocrite for condemning sexual abuse—especially when the Roman Polanski case shows what the media think of sexual abuse of minors when it’s committed by a liberal.
Good point, Teddy, about the Penn State thing.  Of course, the media are focusing on Paterno because he’s Catholic, but sexual abuse is rampant in locker rooms around the country.  My wife was sexually molested by lesbian gym teachers and coaches.  This will be just the tip of the iceberg regarding the United States of Abortion’s obsession with organized competitive sports.
As Teddy said, football and basketball players commit rape all the time and get away with it because they’re “heroes.”  The double standard is disgusting. 
Yes, Catholic priests should be held up to a higher standard precisely because this *is* the True Church, and precisely because all other religions are frauds.  However, the people holding up the standard have nothing to stand on.

Paterno’s Catholic?  That explains a lot.

To all the Catholic haters,

So many of us, have been through Catholic schools and churches and these have not been our experiences. Our heart breaks for those who have experienced abuse, but suggesting that there is some kind of conspiracy going on when there is no uniformity outside of religious teachings, no entity marching in lock step on every issue under the sun, and a large church is going to have people with all kinds of opinions on issues.

It’s unfair to project things that have never been our experiences on us. The same goes with attacks against Jennifer.