Hi Jennifer,
Thanks for your great posts, as always! I am also a convert to the faith, and have had 2 children post- confirmation, in my late 30’s and early 40’s. As we have 3 older children (2 of my husbands, 1 of mine) with 14 years between the older and younger groups, you can imagine the shock and awe that we face when others learn of our story, not to mention the comments that people feel they have the obligation to offer!  ugh!

I began using the jokes and the “yeah, I know, we didn’t plan” responses, but eventually I could not stand the fact that I would walk away feeling guilty and ashamed over the fact that I had more children! Being embarrassed, as somehow I had no right!  In other words, by mouthing the compliance with the secular attitude pervasive in this country, it was actually changing my attitude and emotions toward the situation and in a small and subversive way, my own children!

Why would I agree to belittle the existence of my own children? Gross! I was being “p.c.”!  When I finally realized what was happening to me, I made the conscious decision to meet the sour attitudes with a convicted support of my faith and belief in Life as God intends it.  I will say that I am NOT necessarily making new friends with this, but I am very uplifted that I walk away feeling proud and uplifted by my choices and my children!

Each time I am faced with this confrontation, I get better at the responses and feel even more convicted in my/our beliefs.  The pro-life words and mindset that I have developed spill over into the rest of my life and my children will hear only those types of words in their home. What a blessing! 

So my advice is, to refrain from giving in to political pressure, even in the smallest of conversations; lest you be tempted to believe it yourself. Meet the untruthful mindsets square on with Truth and Love. It will give you inner strength and grace, you will be thankful for!

you are right surprise pregnancies are not the end of the world in fact they are the beginning of a wonderful world of adventure for bothe the child and his family

Life is full of surprises.  The surprise of something cooking in the oven is a happy surprise and sure to put smiles even on the most sour of faces.

Sometimes the problem isn’t with you. Sometimes the spouse is the one who is fearful. Personally, I could deal with surprise pregnancy. My husband however… This is actually what is anxiety-inducing to me. Not the actual pregnancy itself.

Hi Jennifer~ Great post, as always.  I agree with the main point of what you’ve written.  And I do think it’s great to be able to laugh at the occasional “unexpectedness” that can come with practicing NFP.  From where I’m coming from, though, I actually do find using efficacy statistics highly effective and I’ll tell you why:

1) I’m a medical provider and an NFP instructor.  When I talk to patients or clients about NFP and birth control, I have found it to be a useful exercise to show that the effectiveness rates (both method- and user-) of NFP and birth control are pretty similar.  It often surprises people to learn that “unplanned” pregnancy isn’t as common as they think with NFP, and that it is more common than they think with birth control.
2) In my own experience of conversion to rejecting birth control and accepting NFP, the statistics were incredibly important to me & my DH.  Part of this could be both of us are numbers and research-type people, but it was still very helpful for us as we learned about NFP.
3) In teaching other couples about NFP, most of them want to know about efficacy rates.  I have found that this goes a long way to accepting NFP.  Furthermore, I tell them that, anecdotally, I personally have not experienced any “surprises” in practicing NFP for over 8 years now.  In the interest of full disclosure, I can also tell them about how some couples have to “work at it” more than others simply because of their biology, but reassure them that it’s nothing insurmountable.
...
Overall, when couples are coming to NFP from a contraceptive mindset, it seems that the efficacy rates help to ease that transition.  Over time, most (if not all) couples relax in their anxiety over “control” because they come to realize that we’re really never totally in control anyway, and this journey helps them to grow and accept that.  I would also agree that citing statistics alone won’t go very far to help people on the road to conversion: practicing NFP is truly about so much more than achieving or avoiding pregnancy.  When couples learn that NFP is part of how marriage is designed—fostering open communication, increased intimacy, shared responsibility of fertility and child-rearing, the couple functioning as a united “one”—it opens the floodgates to so much more.

NFP must never be presented as anything similar to “contraceptives/barrier methods” because it is the very opposite of that. It needs to be taught in this way, not as another ‘form’ of contraception because that is really deceiving to so many women and couples especially. Thats just not what Natural family planning is.

For one thing, NFP embraces the fertile cycle in its fullness. The whole philosophy behind it surrounds that “golden place” that “sacred moment”....“respecting and preserving” all that surrounds and involves the very intimacy and relations that lead to the creation of a new precious human life, whom is a ‘gift’, not a must have “vintage toy”.  That new life, joined by woman and man, transforming them and JOINING them as mother and father is something so awesome,so profound, when one says “YES” to the cooperation of how we were designed. 
A woman is not fertile every moment unlike men. A woman actually has a “gateway” that opens up according to her fertile moment and very shortly after, shuts quickly.  So, when a couple take charge in respecting this natural good, this basic design within a woman, then they can work their lives towards a higher level of basic respect towards one another.  Without this recognition and respect, the so called respect is actually a FALSE respect.  Because all of a sudden, the contraceptive attitude is all about “Whenever/wherever, regardless of anything”...it is about when “I feel like getting intimate”. If a child results, than Dammit! So clearly NFP does not promote the “dammit situation” but truly a “holy shnikeys, I have a greater calling to life!” situation. Why? because, again, it surrounds the real “respect” for one another’s nature and “gift” of oneself.  Of course that doesnt mean the pathway is easier or harder in either situation. Contraceptives are serious deceivers in that!!!!!!!! Why? because they seriously deceive men women and all surrounding advocates. The pathway on contraception is SO MUCH Scarier that the “Surprise Path” that is attached to NFP. 

When there is such an event that involves the opening monster doors to a new human life whether we welcome them or not, everyone must humble themselves, rather than turn into obsessive compulsive freakhouses about controlling who and when new life is allowed and taking all means of degrading themselves into doing it. The contraceptive lifestyle is just purely selfish and worst of all, a truly tragic love, based on convenience.

...and so NFP is really the answer. It opens up to a “truer” understanding of the mission in life. Its not about ” I think i want to PLAY HOUSE” type of mentality. Its about lets LIVE life with open arms. it is the “real” being open, and accepting one another in their fullness.
What contraception introduces to relationships is a “Lets play house” fake notion of family life, of love.

in conclusion, NFP is about love, and so that binding love is greater when surprises hit hard! So if one is bad at NFP that actually means they are really GOOD at love!!!

For a long time I’ve had this nagging annoyance with the way NFP is promoted in Catholic marriage prep. It’s as if our pastors in this country assume that Catholic couples will contracept, and this is the moral way to do it. I realize that a given couple may have serious reasons to restrict childbirth, but shouldn’t we be assuming that most couples don’t have a serious reason? We live in America, for crying out loud!

I understand that “contracept” in the previous paragraph may be unduly harsh, because NFP doesn’t act against (contra) conception so much as provide a way to avoid conception. Which most Catholic couples, though, wouldn’t have a need to do, right?

I’m not Catholic, so I knew very little about NFP.  My sister was using it and I was surprised at how effective it actually was.  I started doing research and found that it is just as effective as other forms of birth control if not more.  Plus the side effects from other birth control were unbearable for me.  I just wish more medical providers provided more information on it.  Everyone thinks it’s the ineffective rhythm method.

Great article!  I am snuggling #4 right now…. The best thing to come out of being bad at nfp :)

NFP is the practice of deliberately restricting the marital act exclusively to those times when the wife is infertile so as to avoid the conception of a child. NFP is used for the same reasons that people use artificial contraception: to deliberately avoid the conception of a child while carrying out the marital act, I guess it depends which Pope’s teaching below you follow:

Pope Paul VI explained correctly that NFP is birth control when he promoted it in his encyclical Humanae Vitae.
Paul VI, Humanae Vitae (# 16), July 25, 1968:
“…married people may then take advantage of the natural cycles immanent in the reproductive system and engage in marital intercourse only during those times that are infertile, thus controlling birth in a way which does not in the least offend the moral principles which We have just explained.”

Pope Pius XI, Casti Connubii (#’s 53-56), Dec. 31, 1930: “And now, Venerable Brethren, we shall explain in detail the evils opposed to each of the benefits of matrimony. First consideration is due to the offspring, which many have the boldness to call the disagreeable burden of matrimony and which they say is to be carefully avoided by married people not through virtuous continence (which Christian law permits in matrimony when both parties consent) but by frustrating the marriage act. Some justify this criminal abuse on the ground that they are weary of children and wish to gratify their desires without their consequent burden. Others say that they cannot on the one hand remain continent nor on the other can they have children because of the difficulties whether on the part of the mother or on the part of the family circumstances.
“But no reason, however grave, may be put forward by which anything intrinsically against nature may become conformable to nature and morally good. Since, therefore, the conjugal act is destined primarily by nature for the begetting of children, those who in exercising it deliberately frustrate its natural powers and purpose sin against nature and commit a deed which is shameful and intrinsically vicious.

Agree with Richard A. The Catholic doctrine on marriage is that it is ordered to the good of the spouses AND the procreation and education of children. Rather than teaching NFP as a legal way of avoiding children and severely limiting the number of children given to a marriage, it should be taught first that children are the crowning achivement of marriage, supreme gifts, and that NFP is the only legitimate way of spacing the procreation of children where grave reason requires it. In other words, the focus should be on the gifts that children are, rather than how to prevent them from being created.

I agree with RMMT’s comment, above. My husband and I were very reassured by NFP’s effectiveness statistics in making the decision to use it, and it has been very effective for us. It just isn’t that hard for either of us to wait a few days. Now that he is out of school and employed, we have had a baby boy (10 months old) and are thrilled to be able to be more “open” to as many babies as God has for us. However, as we’ve learned more about babies’ needs and the natural/traditional 2-3 year spacing of children, we feel that ecological breastfeeding and NFP will provide a prudent spacing between our children, in order to allow each baby as much nurturing and babyhood as he needs, as well as to allow my body to recover sufficiently to provide for a new baby both in and out of the womb.

I could have written #3 on this post. You captured my thoughts, feelings, how I viewed the world just four years ago perfectly. My two daughters are soon to be 9 and 12 yrs old. And…at 40 years old, I’m now 28 weeks with my own little “surprise”. It’s been a big adjustment.  I still alternate between “I can’t believe we’re doing this again!” and real excitement at the prospect of having a new baby. RE: NFP - the hard part really is getting the spouse on board.

Well, Richard, I hate to burst your bubble, but since about 90% of Catholic couples *do* contracept, I’m not so sure that the Pre-cana people are too far off base there. My DH and I are facilitators for our parish’s marriage prep program (at a very orthodox parish which celebrates both the NO and EF) and at least half to 3/4 of the couples in each weekend are (1) having sex outside marriage and (2) using contraception. They are there because they want to get married in a pretty church, or because their parents or grandparents are parishoners. For many of them, it’s the first time in their lives that they’ve heard the Church’s teaching on contraception. So, for the vast majority of Catholic couples preparing for marriage, hearing about NFP is something new, and to tell them that it’s just as effective at preventing a pregnancy as contraception may help some of them to throw out the pills and condoms and give it (NFP) a try. It might not work for some, as Jen claims (and I agree), but it will for others. And why shouldn’t that information be available to people, especially those who do have a good reason to avoid a pregnancy for a time.

Also, I found your statement “shouldn’t we be assuming that most couples don’t have a serious reason for postponing a pregnancy” pretty arrogant. You know what they say about people who assume…

Unless you’ve been in every Catholic NFP bedroom in America, you have no idea whether or not “most people” have a “serious reason” for postponing a pregnancy. There’s a reason the term used by the Church is “serious reason” and not a bullet point list: because the size of any family is determined by the husband, wife, and God. No one else.

You have no idea what people’s reasons might be for delaying a pregnancy, and frankly, unless you are God himself, it’s not really any of your business. As long as your family is doing what you’ve prayerfully discerned to be the will of God in your lives, keep your eyes on your own paper.

Both of my children were unplanned, born 12.5 months apart. Despite our worries, God has seen us through. Pay raises and such come along as needed. I love my kids. I’m so glad God suprised us with them.

for the childbearing age group out there practicing NFP…i think we all get it when you say you’re bad at NFP. I totally agree, NFP yes can be effective, yadda,yadda yadda. but the main motivating factor that will get you to keep doing it when the going gets rough is faith, God and realizing the beauty of letting God be in control and seeing the fruits of that release.  I’ve had special need child, problematic pregancy and been tempted to quit altogether, but i’ve stuck through it and its gotten easier…and its no surprise God has taught my husband in I some major lessons in the process and we are still learning!

People don’t want to nfp mainly because they’re lazy. Not to be harsh, but it’s true imo. I hear all the time from friends, “I can’t even remember to take the pill at the same time every day, I could never chart.” And they end up getting something like an iud that they don’t have to think about. (ick)

Because I’m a convert too, and my family is obviously not Catholic, they don’t understand. They just keep telling me they hope I’m being really careful, since I don’t “need” another baby, and that I “need” to make sure I don’t get pregnant again. I’m tired of hearing it, but until they are 1. my husband 2. my God or 3. my doctor, they need to keep their opinions to themselves.

Oh, and we’re “bad” at NFP too. Trying to better ourselves, but another baby is welcomed blessing in our lives.

I am a proud Catholic convert as of 3 years ago; Of which I was pregnant with #7 at the time(one of those babies is in heaven due to a miscarriage).  All 7 of those children were products of failed artificial contraception; but, since exclusively using NFP since conversion and wanting another child I have not conceived.  I have to wonder what people are afraid of?  No sin is too great for God to forgive.  Go to confession, do penance, live in reparation and be open to life.  :-)

Thank you for presenting the lighter side.  It is greatly appreciated and so desperately needed.

Delightful post, Jennifer.

My wife and I “use contraception.” I put this in scare quotes, because we are so bad at it, I don’t think it really counts.

When we started using NFP, I came up with a unique method of tracing the phase transitions, from Phase 1, to 2, to 3, using a mathematical tool called the Fourier transform, on previous charts. We really did wake up every morning and measure temperature, and then I would use a program to put the readings into a spread-sheet, and it would calculate all the necessary dates. Because it was so involved (we enjoyed making it even more involved than it needed to be), we remembered to do it.

But then we wanted to have a child. And so we did, eventually. He’s 13 months old now. After that, we decided my wife would use oral contraception (we have never seen anything wrong with it). And so she did, kind of. Except it was so easy to do, we’d just forget about it. So now already our son will have a brother or sister in the next few months. The pregnancy is a surprise, but a very welcome surprise. We love babies.

It is funny, though. For us, NFP is better contraception than contraception. Probably after the birth, we will go back to NFP.

Not that I see anything wrong with the pill, mind you. It’s just, in our experience, NFP is more intimate, entertaining (especially if Fourier transforms turn you on), and has a higher success rate.

I got married in 1987, and not one word was mentioned about NFP. In fact, the priest mentioned only in passing that birth control was,  technically speaking, still “against Catholic teaching” (he used his hands to indicate the quotation the quotation marks), and then went on to point out that all of our mentor couples used birth control. Take-home message: No one does or even should take the church’s outdataed teaching seriously.
    I would like to think that it would have made a world of difference to me if that priest would have taken the church’s teaching seriously.  When I finally did discover the truth that the Catholic Church is very serious about her stand against contraception, and is not about to change it, I looked into the reasons for myself and became convinced for myself.  We already had children by that time, and I started using NFP quite successfully to limit the number of children to the ones we already had.  My husband has a serious disease that makes life very difficult for him, and was adamant that he couldn’t handle any more kids. It was only by showing him the statistics of how effective NFP was that he went along with using NFP.  All went well for about a decade until one year, two couples we knew in their late 40s both got pregnant while following the church’s teachings (one was very much intended, while the other was a happy surprise).  It was at that point that I couldn’t stop my husband from getting a vasectomy, which absolutely broke my heart.
      So my take-home message here is that it DOES make a difference to some couples that NFP can be as effective as the pill if used correctly, and we shouldn’t make light of that.  My husband would have gotten a vasectomy instead of letting me try NFP a decade earlier if he wouldn’t have been convinced by the statistics.

Thank you! My feelings exactly. As Protestants, my husband and I decided to not use contraception at the beginning of our marriage. We had our first four children in under four years (no matter how much I nurse my cycle starts back up at 6 weeks post birth). We decided to look into NFP about the same time God started to pull our hearts in the direction of the Catholic Church. We have had two “NFP experiments” Johnny, and Kathleen since becoming Catholic, and I can’t imagine my life without them. Now I am 5 months pregnant with baby #7 and it is my first really “planned” pregnancy. We felt God asking us to open our hearts back in February to another little person.
We are a one income family, and when we converted my husband had to give up the livelihood he was trained for…Baptist music pastor. He has been installing gutters while we wait for God to lead us in another direction. Even though we don’t have an abundance, God has always taken care of our needs. God has been so generous to us I want to be as generous with life as I can for him. I was never a big “baby” person before either, but I find that the more babies I have the more I want more babies. So God can, and very much does, work to change our hearts when they need changing.

@elcid - your own use of Consti Connubi is working against you in your slam against NFP.  To repeat what was written - “virtuous continence (which Christian law permits in matrimony when both parties consent)”

Virtuous continence is at the heart of properly understanding NFP - nothing more, nothing less.  A prayerful couple decides if and when they will be intimate and then wait and see what happens.  Sometimes a baby comes when least expected and sometimes they don’t despite every attempt both are a part of God’s will.  And both - the arrival of a child and the not can be a cause of concern but a truly faithful prayerful couple knows that God has always been in charge.

Very good article and interesting responses.  I go back and forth between wanting a big family and seeing THAT as a beautiful calling in itself, and struggling even to use NFP because of fear of a pregnancy that is not in *my* timing.  NFP used to work great for me, I was practically a missionary for it, but in recent years my body has changed a lot and caught me totally off guard once or twice!

I have friends who use NFP faithfully and for them it works great.  I don’t have many who want a big family.  What irks me the most is the occasional “attitude” I get like it’s WRONG to not use NFP or a SIN to not use it correctly.  That is the attitude I’ve actually come across.  There are actually Catholics who think it’s “irresponsible” to have more than 2 or 3 kids.  Read your catechisms people!  Being a mother of many is a tough job but it can have eternal blessings and rewards.

I want to know this from my fellow Catholics:

If artificial contraception is morally wrong and sinful, why is it taken so lightly?

I am a cradle Catholic and I did not know it was wrong when I was younger, but as soon as I heard it was a grave sin, It changed my choices immediately.

I just don’t and can’t understand why my fellow Catholics would continue in the contraceptive path. Help me understand.

RE Paul’s comment above:  I am glad to hear you don’t plan to use oral contraceptives, and let me tell you why. There is indeed something wrong with the Pill. But before I say this, let me say first that most people don’t know it, and God knows that most people don’t know it, so if anyone becomes distressed by this post, just remember that God is forgiving, and knows everyone’s heart. But please, don’t use the Pill.

The fact is as follows.

One of the Pill’s three methods of preventing pregnancy is not a method of preventing pregnancy at all:  If a woman happens to ovulate while on the Pill, the Pill also keeps the embryo - the new human being - from implanting in the uterus. It does this by making the uterus inhospitable to implantation. In other words, a child has been conceived, but may be lost, and without the parents even knowing it. And breakthrough ovulation is a real possibility with the Pill in its current forms (in the 1960s, maybe not because the hormones were so much stronger). 

No one disputes this, actually, except some folks who consider themselves anti-abortion but desperately want to believe that the Pill is ok because it’s so convenient.

The medical establishment re-defined pregnancy some years back as beginning at implantation, whereas the true and classic definition is that it begins at fertilization. And of course we all know that a human being’s life begins at fertilization (that is, at conception). So now they tell women “the Pill doesn’t stop a pregnancy” because they are defining pregnancy in a way that will allow them to hide the truth. And I have heard from former Pill users that the material that comes with the Pill doesn’t mention this, whereas I have read that you can find it plainly written in the Physicians’ Desk Reference.

If you doubt what I’m saying, Randy Alcorn (not a Catholic) has a good article on this that I’m sure you can find on the web, among other places this info is available.

If a couple uses NFP as a means of “controlling” conception, they’re beginning from an incorrect premise.  NFP is not supposed to be used with a contraceptive mentality.  Couples are encouraged to use NFP because the alternatives are morally unacceptable, and most importantly, because it leaves the couple open to the gift of life.  You are co-creators with God, and if you understand that and are willing to work with that, rather than combat that fact, then Natural Family Planning is being used for the right reason.  You may follow NFP to the letter and still “end up pregnant,” but if you’ve willingly and consciously left the door open for God to still create if it be His will, then that “surprise pregnancy” will be viewed through a different lens.  If, however, NFP is being used as a “legal” means of contraception, then that “surprise pregnancy” will be viewed in the same way as those women who end up pregnant while on the pill, couples who use prophylactics, or in two instances with couples with whom I’ve recently worked who end up pregnant post-vasectomy…“OH NO. I’M PREGNANT.”  If you’re using or considering using NFP, remember that if you want to 100% avoid pregnancy at all costs, practice abstinence; if you want to plan your family IN ACCORD WITH GOD’S WILL, use NFP; if you want to share in the marital act but avoid pregnancy “at all costs” because “well, we just don’t want a child right now, dog-gone-it,” then use artificial contraception - but understand the moral implications that come along with that “choice.” (PSA - yes, I’m a priest and that final statement was spoken in jest since I don’t condone the use of artificial contraception).  Please go speak to your priest and find a clinic or practitioner in your area who teaches and promotes NFP if you’re struggling with it. Onward Christian soldiers!!!

I’m in my 40’s and am also a convert. I’ve decided I’m totally open to life. Here are my tautologous thoughts, totally on board with you Jen! LOL!!! http://www.acceptingabundance.com/2011/06/my-tautologous-thoughts-on-being-open.html

I know I should just get my own blog, but I’m too lazy.
I don’t get the whole NFP thing.  I mean, I get the mechanics, and I’ve heard it’s praises sung, I know great people dedicated to it and I have lots of friends practicing it.  But it seems that for most people it’s a lot of work and time and a set up for dissapointment.

Here’s the deal.  If you want to be a Christian, you’re going to get eaten by lions.  You should know from the get-go that’s what you’re signing up for.  Some people’s lions are loneliness, or cancer, or poverty, or betrayal.  If you’re going to accept the Church’s teachings on marriage and family, some of your lions are likely going to be a bunch of kids, and all that comes along with it.  “Accept it before it destroys you.” 

I guess my issue is the way NFP is not just mentioned, but pushed as normative.  It seems to me a lot of time and training and commitment is being asked of people and they’re getting the same results as if there were no NFP.  I imagine it can be more than simply harmless, but indeed a bit crippling emotionally and physically to live this way. Why not just say that most married couples can expect and should realistically plan for somewhere between 4-12 kids, recognizing that health, finances and a whole host of other things may pop up and interfere along the way.  Big family =/= [does not equal] ticket to heaven, yet if done virtuously it can. 

Some people will not be blessed with many kids, or any kids, and that will necessarily involve some heartache which no one should add to.  But that also comes with different opportunities and those couples need to see God’s will in that.  Other families will have beyond normal fertility and will need support in that, because that’s no easy road, and that may mean needing to use NFP for survival.  But that’s also God’s will and not merely a curse, so those families need to see the unique call and opportunity in that life, too.

As I look around at this thriving little group of catholics here I see a wide range of finances, parenting styles, education, goals, and practicalities.  But I’m constantly puzzeled by my NFP friends who seem to all be ending up having kids on the same 2-3 year schedule, yet always surprised by each new baby.  My women friends make plans and try to postpone their pregnancies, yet end up with that baby anyway.  Is the month or two delay worth all the effort?  Is the planning your life out as if THIS time you’ll be more careful and the regrouping that necessarily occurs when that baby comes anyway really efficient?

I think family life should be presented as something we can’t plan for, but a reasonable expection is that you will need to grow in virtue and be as smart about money as you can.  Women should certainly try to take on whatever their gifts and talents and organizational skills allow - for some that will mean just keeping everyone alive, for others that may mean both a career and a family.  To be a catholic mom usual means hanging on to that pack-and-play and a bag of maternity clothes and not investing too much in anything that can’t be gotten out of if another one comes along.

I think it’s equally bad to pretend that having a lot of kids is no big deal (you’re just going to go into the Coloseum to pet some kitty-cats!) as it is to pretend that following the church’s teachings isn’t going to mean a bunch of kids for most families (Oh, we’ll give you this thermometer and a chart and so you’ll just have a very manageable lion when you’re ready for it). God wants you to be willing to face them big ol’ lions with sharp, pointy teeth, and the best thing you can do say, “Your will be done” and grab His hand (sacraments, prayer) and walk through that door.

Rachel W:

your beef is not with me but with Pope Pius XI, just because a more modern Pope gave the go ahead to NFP doesn’t make it right, if it’s against the law of God then it’s wrong, what if the current Pope were to state that abortion is ok in case of rape, would he be correct or would the historical teaching on abortion still hold, I would think God’s laws rein forever.

I am in the same boat as Anonymous up there with the anxious husband.  NFP can be horrible if both spouses aren’t fully on board.  I don’t worry about any more children because I was raised to just keep on keepin on.  But with a nonbeliever hubby who “doesn’t get paid what he’s worth” there is no end to the baby-making anxiety around here.  It is horrible.

NFP is not for everyone.  I’d rather have 10 children than use NFP….oh wait, I did!  Never what I imagined for myself as a young woman but actually much, much more. We were always given the grace to survive whatever difficulties came, and there were so many.  Being open to life is a constant self sacrifice, one God honors.

No one would read my blog, anyway.

I’m thinking part of the appeal of NFP for catholic women is that it gives them a sexual bargaining power that they otherwise wouldn’t have.  They may end up taking care of lots of kids, but it forces their husbands to acknowledge their responsibility.  I think it would be healthier to just smack guys around before they get married on this point, and for mother-in-laws to make comments once in a while.  I think men may go along with it because they can feel like they’re meeting their wive’s emotional needs.  But again, I think it would be healthier for women to not have a false sense of what’s in store, and have some father-in-laws pulling dads aside on occasion with a threat and a joke or a sympathetic eye-roll.

@anonymous:

“Well, Richard, I hate to burst your bubble, but since about 90% of Catholic couples *do* contracept, I’m not so sure that the Pre-cana people are too far off base there. My DH and I are facilitators for our parish’s marriage prep program (at a very orthodox parish which celebrates both the NO and EF) and at least half to 3/4 of the couples in each weekend are (1) having sex outside marriage and (2) using contraception. They are there because they want to get married in a pretty church, or because their parents or grandparents are parishoners. For many of them, it’s the first time in their lives that they’ve heard the Church’s teaching on contraception. So, for the vast majority of Catholic couples preparing for marriage, hearing about NFP is something new, and to tell them that it’s just as effective at preventing a pregnancy as contraception may help some of them to throw out the pills and condoms and give it (NFP) a try. It might not work for some, as Jen claims (and I agree), but it will for others. And why shouldn’t that information be available to people, especially those who do have a good reason to avoid a pregnancy for a time.”

I’m quite well aware of the culture in which NFP is being promoted, it was there when I got married 30+ years ago, and I’ve seen nothing to indicate that it’s gotten better since. Although I think your 90% figure is a bit high (just a bit and not enough to affect perception of culture). NFP is obviously preferable to any form of ABC, and is possibly a decent start for many in the direction of acquiring an appreciation for the true goods of marriage.

I simply want to suggest that the Church - we - can do more than we are to counteract the assumption that couples will, by default, want to limit (significantly) the number of children they will have. That attitude is contrary to the Church’s teaching on marriage.

“Also, I found your statement “shouldn’t we be assuming that most couples don’t have a serious reason for postponing a pregnancy” pretty arrogant. You know what they say about people who assume…”

I assume that annulments in this country are granted way too easily and frequently - up over the 90% range you cited for ABC use among Catholics. I also assume that anyone I actually meet who has had an annulment is in the 10% group.

“Unless you’ve been in every Catholic NFP bedroom in America ...”

Ok, could I trouble you to back off the “get your laws off my body” language? If I manage to make it into only 50% of NFP Americans’ bedrooms, do I have to withhold my opinion until I finish the job entirely?

“... you have no idea whether or not “most people” have a “serious reason” for postponing a pregnancy.”

I know that I live in the richest society on earth with the best health care available. I know that in poor countries like Honduras - I’ve talked to Hondurans - they don’t manage to come up with “grave reasons”, whatever they may be, like us rich Americans. Although every year, by the grace of God no doubt, we rich Americans are able to teach poor Third Worlders how to find some.

“...because the size of any family is determined by the husband, wife, and God. No one else.”

I guess I shouldn’t have had that chat all those years ago with a very close friend about just this topic.

“... it’s not really any of your business.”

Since sin affects us all, and this does affect the kind of society my children and grandchildren are growing up in, I’m pretty sure this is my business, in a general way. And for very close relationships even apart from my wife, in a personal way.

I apologize if I sound unduly harsh. We’ve learned from our own Supreme Court that “health of the mother” means “any reason you can come up with.” If every NFP session started with the disclaimer, “Now, you won’t do this, of course, unless you have a serious reason to” and there was a session devoted to exploring the difference between serious and unserious reasons, then I would have nothing to say. We might scare some people away from sacramental marriage. We might be doing them and the Church a favor.

I think Fr. Philip has a good point. I also do understand the concerns with people using it as “legal” contrraception.  The thing is, even just using NFP will usually bring people to a closer understanding of God’s love and plan for marriage and family life.  Sometimes a couple is just practicing it because they know “contraception’s bad.” Well, good!  God works wonders, and by the virtue of them practicing, God can replace any fear in their hearts with greater love and understanding for his plan.  God knows that has worked for us. I just got agreat compliment from our newly married friends- they said seeing me with my toddler made being pregnant not seem that scary and something to look forward too. I can’t wait until she can experience that on her own!

Great post Jen.  I hope you’re getting some good sleep!!

Also wondered- you’re doing Creighton? Have you ever looked in to STM? We did that but I’m thinking I should do Creighton postpartum this time.  I think it’s great there’s an abundance of models to use (Billings, Marquette, Creighton, STM, etc)

You know what they call couples that use NFP?

Parents!

I have always found that joke to be true, not as a commentary on NFP’s effecitvness, but rather because couples who use NFP are not afraid to have children. NFP couples are willing to wait for children, but not opposed to having them, even by surprise.

When I think about it, all the greatest gifts God has given me have been unplanned. My own life, my wife, my children, my (and my wife’s) family, even my job and my house - much greater than I could have ever dreamed!

Jen - keep the NFP posts coming!  I love them, and especially the great points in the comments section.

As a cradle Catholic who considers himself a convert (I only started to REALLY take my faith seriously in the past decade), I always thought that the Church’s stance on ABC was just no condoms, pills or abortion.  I never knew the things like withdrawal and other sexual practices (ahem) outside of sex were morally wrong as well.  Anyway, I have really tried to correct this oversight on my part, but as you can imagine, it’s tough enough for a Catholic to grasp sometime, forget about a spouse from a non-Christian denomination.

Anywhoo, I’m curious how others have made their trip down the path to keeping their sexual practices in line with Catholic teaching.  Did it happen over night?  Did you just drop everything and start NFP?  What kind of grief and sadness did you carry in your heart every time you disobeyed the Church’s view on this subject?

Us, we are attempting to get on the NFP wagon (now that we have 3 adorable little ones, and always open to life, although not ready for it just this moment), but I’m so frustrated on getting myself to understand this, forget about moving to the next level and convincing my spouse.

Any suggestions or stories to share?

Hey Mouse,

It’s all pretty-much a moot point, whether the pill increases the risk of implantation. But I still wouldn’t come out against using the pill. It’s not for my wife and me, but maybe it will work well for other people.

The problems I have with calling it abortifacient:
There is some evidence that the pill will reduce chances that an embryo will implant. But there may be many other things that will also reduce chances of implantation. Maybe eating eggplant reduces chances of implantation, and no one knows. Eggplant isn’t really abortifacient. The thing is, there are so many unknowns that, if the risk is small enough (we’d have to look at numbers to find out for sure), it’s not much of a worry.

An abortifacient is a drug that is used to cause abortions. A drug that increases the chance of miscarriage, and that isn’t being used in order to cause miscarriage, is not abortifacient.

Even if it is abortifacent:
I am certain that before 6 weeks the human embryo is not a person. So it wouldn’t matter anyway.

@elcid,

You are not understanding Rachel W’s point.  She (correctly) points out that Casti Connubii explicitly permits NFP.  Pius XI says that “virtuous continence” (that is, refraining from intimacy) is “[permitted] by Christian law…when both parties consent.”  That is PRECISELY what NFP entails. The second paragraph you cite refers to “deliberate[ly] frustrating” the sexual act, e.g. using artificial contraception.  Refraining from intimacy at ANY time, whether fertile or infertile, never “deliberately frustrates” the nature of sexual activity.  Both Humanae Vitae AND Casti Connubii support the practice of fertility awareness and periodically abstaining (what is commonly referred to as NFP) as completely morally acceptable.  Paul VI does not contradict or override Pius XI; both are addressing the moral and immoral forms of sexual behavior within marriage, and come to the same conclusions.

To Anonymous who stated:
//
“Also, I found your statement “shouldn’t we be assuming that most couples don’t have a serious reason for postponing a pregnancy” pretty arrogant. You know what they say about people who assume…”
//
How on earth is a general idea and/or observation about “most couples” “arrogant”? And, how is it not keeping his eyes on his own paper? It’s a GENERAL, not particular, observation.
//
Until this last century, married couples understood that the possibility of conceiving in “GRAVE (not just serious) situations” was what they signed up for when they got married. A woman and/or her child had a pretty decent chance of dying during or shortly after childbirth until the latter half of the 20th century. I’m not saying Catholic couples shouldn’t use or have recourse to NFP. However, it seems odd to think that the *majority* of couples in this affluent country where excellent medical care is readily accessible would weigh their individual situations against what Christian mothers have faced for hundreds of years and come out thinking NFP use is necessary to space births throughout their marriage.

@PaulRimmer: “I am certain that before 6 weeks the human embryo is not a person.”  Please elaborate…and if you’re Catholic, how is this in line with Church teaching?  If you’re not Catholic…apples and oranges, I suppose.

NFP, unlike contraception, is useful in helping women become pregnant. I have friends who married when both of them were about 40. NFP helped them have three kids in four years.

My wife and I love that we don’t seem to be good at NFP.  She is happily pregnant with #5, who was not very “expected”. 

Something I have noticed is that we can jokingly discuss our “surprise” pregnancies with Catholic friends, but not with anyone else.  Our non-Catholic friends and family see unplanned children as unwanted, almost as illegitimate.  They are ashamed to acknowledge that a child was a “surprise”.  However, our Catholic friends will happily tell us that their #3 and #7 were “unplanned” because they see children as the fruits of a marriage.

This attitude is so ingrained in my mother (non-Catholic) that when I tell her that some of her grandchildren (my kids!) were unplanned, she refuses to acknowledge the possibility because it means she would think less of them!

Oh yeah, my husband practice NFP!  I mean…we did for one day.

We have six kids.

And all are absolute blessings from God.

Jennifer, I love how you bring in the ‘bigger picture (Also @Alex, great response - very though provoking!).  Viewing a child as a rare, once or twice a lifetime terminal diagnosis which should be avoided until “planned” is the problem.  It’s our worldview that needs to change, that way expected or not, all conceived children will be viewed as gifts, if not The Gift the world is waiting for!

Hi all,

NFP is important.  I mean REALLY important.  It has nothing to do with kids, which are God’s blessing to give or take as He will, and everything to do with CANCER.  Every woman should be at least making an attempt to chart and understand her body, so that she will know when something is wrong.  No contraception, or other medical advice out there is better than NFP.  I agree with all the comments on kids (I have 5 of them, and have only ever used NFP, well or badly as my marriage has had its ups and downs) but people really need to start talking about NFP with every prospective ob/gyn student that you meet.  A pill is not going to help you notice irregular bleeding, because you may not have any.  It suppresses your immune system, and there have been far too few studies published about that.  There is probably a link between breast cancer, and symptoms that could be found using NFP, but few scientists are talking about this yet.  Jokes about marriage and children and NFP are all good, but cancer is no laughing matter.  And I just have to add that I want to scream every time I heard that Planned Parenthood helps women with real-world health issues.  YEAH, RIGHT!!!!!

Fr. Philip:

Thank you for your response. I am not Catholic. I’m merely Christian. I base my certainty on the measure of neural activity, and the determination that 6 weeks is the soonest neural activity takes place. So this is the cutoff, just to be safe, because it is a certainty.

I don’t want to distract from the flow of the comments, so if you want to talk with me further about my faith, or about abortion (etc.), you can contact me at p(dot)brandon(dot)rimmer AT gmail(dot)com.

“If you’re going to accept the Church’s teachings on marriage and family, some of your lions are likely going to be a bunch of kids, and all that comes along with it.  “Accept it before it destroys you.””
—>Part of the problem here is that far too many people see children as a burden rather than a blessing: this is the contraceptive mentality.  I would suggest that “a bunch of kids” are not “some of the lions”—the culture’s reaction to “a bunch of kids” is.
...
“I guess my issue is the way NFP is not just mentioned, but pushed as normative.  It seems to me a lot of time and training and commitment is being asked of people and they’re getting the same results as if there were no NFP.  I imagine it can be more than simply harmless, but indeed a bit crippling emotionally and physically to live this way. Why not just say that most married couples can expect and should realistically plan for somewhere between 4-12 kids, recognizing that health, finances and a whole host of other things may pop up and interfere along the way.”
—>Because married couples must have the opportunity to discern family size in prayerful consideration, according to each family’s particular situation.  It is incorrect to say, “couples ...should realistically plan for ...4-12 kids…”  I know many couples who use NFP faithfully and their family sizes range from 2-11, but for all of them, this is *on purpose.*  I don’t know of anyone who feels “emotionally or physically crippled” by practicing NFP.  Instead, I know of couples who suffer distress or discord in their marriages because the spouses are not on the same page with regard to their family size and direction.  This truly has more to do with the “contraceptive mentality,” as discussed by Fr. Philip above, than with the actual practice of NFP.  I also know of *several* women who are emotionally distressed/depressed while on hormonal contraception (I see it in clinical practice all the time) and have known many who improve after stopping.

I always thought it was funny that the couples who taught NFP (in our parish at least) have 4 or more kids. I know as a young couple going through marriage prep I was like, “Really?! If you want to convince me this is effective, show me a couple who have been married for a long time that only have 2 or 3 kids…”

Now, I that I’ve been married for four years and have a child of my own I realize it is more the idea of just being open to new life. We don’t really have control over it anyway do we?

sometimes it is a beautiful thing when you are bad at NFP.  Thanks
-“NFP dropout” and proud of it.

Not to get too far off Jennifer’s point, but I think people forget NFP isn’t just for avoiding children. We’ve used NFP to postpone but also to conceive and diagnose. Without some of the things we discovered from charting, I don’t know that I’d be carrying the baby I am today. If it never worked to postpone (and it did perfectly for us), it would be 10x more valuable in helping me conceive and carry a healthy baby!

I thank you for this article. I’ve had 5 c-sections and 1 natural birth. The multiple c-sections have caused serious concerns for any future pregnancy, not to mention each recovery has been harder and harder. Despite the suffering involved, I actually feel worse by the fact that relatives and friends demean each pregnancy rather than try to be supportive. I’ve had all the bad looks and comments when I was pregnant with #3 and even more with the rest. It’s sad that in our society, motherhood and children are not appreciated unless they were planned (as you state). But from those with religious convictions, each child is a GIFT and not all gifts are given when people want them. Indeed, most of life is like this. We all endure both good and bad events when we least expect them, so it should not be such a surprise when it comes to parenthood either.

I also should add that one of the reasons NFP is not acceptable in our society is that it takes discipline and restraint (during the fertile time of cycle) if a couple wishes to avoid pregnancy. This is not always easy, especially when hormones kick up during ovulation. NFP helps people to practice moderation in the sexual realm, something that is greatly needed in our society. Consider how many indulge in porn these days. This only darkens the soul and treats people like objects for pleasure. This is immoral and evil. NFP allows the couple to have time to appreciate each other outside of sex.

Concerning anon. statement that pre-Cana couples are mostly using contraception and don’t know the Church teachings: it seems pretty sad that they are *that* ignorant. As a convert to the Faith (I was 15 at the time), I managed to find out the information just by reading catechism and/or articles on the Faith over the years. I married at 25 and my husband was not Catholic (not religious at all) but I knew the teachings (without the priest telling us). I assume I picked it up from reading Catholic blogs and articles on the Faith. In fact, I’ve found as a Catholic, that one can never tire of learning. There is SO MUCH in the Church to learn about: history, saint lives, teachings, virtues, etc. etc.

Most of the saints kept their flame of Faith alive by doing spiritual reading and prayer. Those of us who come to Catholic blog sites are trying to feed our Faith and learn. :)

KL:

I understand what Rachel W was stating…I think you both misinterpret Casti Connubii or need to read it again…so now your telling me NFP does NOT involve the sexual act? it does…when the wife is infertile so as to avoid the conception of a child, that’s my point, engaging in the sexual act just for pleasure, isn’t this the purpose of NFP for the most part? if this is the case maybe the church should not ban condoms, if procreation or pleasure are the purposes of the sexual act, maybe NFP is just one of those “misinterpretations” of Vatican II…you think.

I leave you with this:

Tobias 16-19

[16] Then the angel Raphael said to him: Hear me, and I will shew thee who they are, over whom the devil can prevail. [17] For they who in such manner receive matrimony, as to shut out God from themselves, and from their mind, and to give themselves to their lust, as the horse and mule, which have not understanding, over them the devil hath power. [18] But thou when thou shalt take her, go into the chamber, and for three days keep thyself continent from her, and give thyself to nothing else but to prayers with her. [19] And on that night lay the liver of the fish on the fire, and the devil shall be driven away

elcid - actually, the first Pope to tacitly give the “go-ahead” to NFP was Pope Pius IX in 1853. See this article at Catholic.com: http://www.catholic.com/thisrock/2005/0502fea2.asp

Perhaps you should study the history of church teaching on periodic continence a bit more instead of misinterpreting papal encyclicals to justify your own viewpoint.

Incidentally, I’ve used NFP to both conceive and abstain. It’s information, nothing more or less, and it’s up to the couple to prayerfully discern what to do with that information in regard to sexual intercourse.

I’m pregnant with #4 right now, and we were using NFP to avoid (for financial reasons) the cycle s/he was conceived. However, during the fertile phase, we decided to have intercourse anyway. What do you know, the sex worked and we conceived. That wasn’t a failure of NFP; that was a mutual decision by my husband and myself to not abstain at a certain point during my cycle, and we were willing to accept the consequences of our decision either way. (Note: I am not saying that the consequence of another child is a negative one, just that it is indeed a consequence of the sexual act.)

We were a bit worried about how finances would work out if we conceived, but made the decision anyway. Wouldn’t you know, I got a large raise at work that same week. God does indeed provide!

I commented earlier that my wife and I “failed” at NFP with our current #5 on the way, but we really only started “failing” when we bent the rules.  She only lets me bend the rules when she’s ready for another baby anyhow!  I think this is the experience of a lot of couples.  I’m happy to have a dozen anklebiters, but I think that she will cut me off (not literally!) around 6 or 7.

I absolutely think you are correct Jennifer. Thanks for tickling my funny bone. My hat’s off also to those concerned not to discourage, and in fact to spread, use of nfp!! LORD knows…we live in a world so WOEFULLY deficient in knowledge in this area. TAKE-THE-PILL…TAKE-THE-PILL it chants in lockstep. That thought must by now be burned deep into the subconscious of every woman walking. (For some reason I was a weirdo…and did a bunch of research on it years ago when the gyno first began urging it on me for dysmenorrhea…and when I read about all the terrible risks it caused…I hated it immediately and ever since…quite rationally so!) Anyway I just wanted to say that re: 3. “People first must understand that surprise pregnancies aren’t the end of the world.” Ummm…yes…in fact, as a dear friend of mine pointed out once, an even better message to convey—shocking as it is, nowadays—is that pregnancy is the natural consequence of being sexually active! And on top of that, the message (to be conveyed in a bright, chipper “duh well of course we all KNOW this” voice, is the message that having a baby is not a bad thing…it’s a GREAT thing! (I’m of the sort that thinks that even if one is unmarried or circumstances are difficult, having a baby is intrinsically a positive thing…can soften the grief…sometimes even sets people on the RIGHT path!)

Ah, I love it! Thanks for this :) I think society is starting to emerge out of the contraceptive culture (very, very slowly, but I definitely see it and I hope it’s not just my rose-colored glasses!) and great commentaries like this help! You hit the nail on the head when you said a surprise pregnancy isn’t the end of the world: hopefully more women will realize this.

We’ve been bad at NFP and very dilligent at it during a time where it was important to avoid pregnancy. I always tell people it’s effectiveness is in proportion to your motivation. Besides that, I have lots of friends who have had birth control babies. Most people are more inspired by the fact that my husband is so open to life when their husbands have had or are planning vasectomies!

I did not like being pregnant with #7, but as soon as I heard the heartbeat all the hard feelings melted away.

Agreed that NFP effectiveness depends on motivation!

I’ve told my story before, but I think it needs to be told here, because of some of the more outrageous posts I’m seeing here.

I had preeclampsia with my first two children; it was so bad with the second that the labor/delivery nurse told me she was surprised they hadn’t lost me.  With my third my blood pressure stayed barely beneath the “alarm” level.  I then developed regular hypertension (and the medicine I take for it is not safe for pregnancy).  I see NFP as a tremendous gift of a loving God; I trust Him to provide for my health in the event I become pregnant, but I am grateful for the ability not to have to resort to the 100% abstinence option Fr. Philip suggests.

There are health conditions that can’t be “fixed” by modern medicine—even in America—to make pregnancy safe for every woman. Preeclampsia and hypertension issues are one, and you can Google the phrase “hyperemesis gravidarum” to learn about another.  I have been told by some anti-NFP Catholics that it’s my duty to embrace the possibility of death (mine and the baby’s) in order to try to have another child, since that is my obligation as a married woman.  I’m rather glad the Church doesn’t see things that way.

@elcid

If you argue that Rachel W and I are misinterpreting Casti Connubii, you are also arguing that the consistent teaching of the Magisterium is misinterpreting it and has been teaching incorrectly both prior to its promulgation *and* after it.  Please see the article that Rachel linked to for further clarification, as it’s quite helpful.  The link is here, again: http://www.catholic.com/thisrock/2005/0502fea2.asp
Either the consistent teaching of the Church and the Holy See has explicitly been in grave error from 1853 through the present day, or you are mistaken in your reasoning.  Either is possible, but I know which I think is more likely.

Excuse me, in my previous comment I should have indicated that JoAnna linked to the Catholic Answers article, not Rachel W.  My apologies to JoAnna!

Regarding your second point: The real crux is that even if you could convince a contracepting couple that NFP was highly effective, you still have to get the couple to see and embrace abstinance as a good thing. If the typical couple was faced with two methods of birth control - one which requires education, work and sacrifice and the other which allows sex on demand and almost no thought - which do think they’d choose?
NFP use requires a Catholic world-view, the embrace of sacrifice as a good thing and the proper understanding of sex and marriage. I’m good at NFP (my husband, looking over my shoulder as I type grimaces, “Too good.”), but then I did not need to use it often in my years of fertility and see more reason to use it now in premenopause.

“I’ve told my story before, but I think it needs to be told here, because of some of the more outrageous posts I’m seeing here.”

Dear Erin,

Thank you so much for taking the time to speak out.  I was looking for a voice of reason in the midst of some of this insanity.  I thought the most insane comment was the one about women accepting grave circumstances as the norm.  I don’t come to NCR often but I am very surprised at the depth of ignorance stated here in some of the comments.  I think a balanced approach is much needed.  It is not just for grave medical reasons some couples need to use NFP but also for the ability of parents to care for their children.  Apparently the author only knows families that are managing well.  I also see the Catholic families that are breaking under tremendous stress and my heart goes out to them.  Prudence is a virtue and God gave us the gift of discernment for a reason.

Erin- I am in a similar situation as yours (we had two babies ‘easily’- lost a baby at 20 weeks inutero- and had 2 c-section toxemia babies, the last was born at 32 weeks at 4 pounds)

I have been told I should be a ‘victim soul’ and risk my life and a future baby’s life rather than practice NFP to space (I don’t want to save ‘avoid’ or ‘never have’ even though we probably should not have another baby)

maybe it is just me, but I think my kids need me more than a potential future sibling- if we did conceive, Lord have mercy and help us both survive! Evil ABC has the same failure rate as NFP has surprise pregnancies if the couple is motivated

Thank you!!!  Very nice reflections on NFP jokes.  I am a proud mother of 5 as well.  Wish God would bless me with twins.  I want to go out with a bang.  At 43 my fertile days are numbered.  God bless you!  :) 
Ruth Beier, Fort Wayne, IN

This is a VERY TROUBLING POST.  Most modern Catholics as seen by the responses here are in approval of this non sense. 

You said it yourself, “turn anyone off to natural methods of birth control”

You are using it as birth control.  NFP is only supposed to be used for very “grave” reasons! ie. life of mother, life of baby, no way to feed baby…

Many AMERICAN CATHOLICS have all the means in the world to have more children, but will use it as “birth control”, please explain the difference between using a physical pill or physically avoiding the marital act.

If you are open to life, then you don’t use NFP. So, if your NFPing fails, since you were open to life anyway, why the heck use it?

BUT THIS, UNFORTUNATELY, IS OUR MODERN CATHOLIC CHURCH, AND IT IS POSTED ON NEWADVENT.

NFP cost me my marriage. My ex-wife hated it, hated being able to be intimate more often, she found another man, had an affair, divorced me, married him, they are still married after 16 years - not using NFP. That’s what NFP did for me.

I’m so sorry that happened to you Mike G. But I believe NFP is not the problem. The problem was the woman you chose as your wife, now ex-wife. I hope you are in a better situation today. God Bless.

Hi, I´m a catholic, writing from Brazil. I want to agree with the Church, even if I really dont understand Church´s position on contraception. I´m trying to understand NFP as an “alternative” to contraception, and texts like this sometimes shows that NFP will never really be an alternative… And you probably think now that the true answer is that “unexpected pregnancie is not the end of the world”, but is it really? For whom? For an american woman like you? What about the poor people around the world? People who like in poverty, alcoolism, crime, etc. is able to say “well, an unexpected pregnancie is not the end of the world”?

Sorry about my english. And let me correct: ‘People who LIVE in poverty, etc.’ not ‘people who LIKE…”

Priest’s wife, I’ve never said “never” either—but I did say that prudence required me to continue NFP until my health improved naturally or my blood pressure went down w/o medicines or miraculous healing occurred or…but I’m 42 now, and I have to be honest that my once-dream of a big family is not likely.

But in embracing this cross I’ve found plenty of ways to discern and follow God’s will—for this is His will for me—every day.  And I’ve stopped having a pang in my heart when extended family members bring home their beautiful infants.  And, God willing, I plan to *rock* as a grandma some day. :)

His will, not mine.  His will.

Contraceptive mentality - fail can lead to abortion
NFP fail - hopefully the beautiful and precious surprise that Jennifer talks about.  Good comments on the mind shift about openess to life.  There is a story behind each conception of all of my 7 kids (just like cheaper by the dozen).  At the end of the day family life is a wonderful all or nothing affair. Society needs more people who are generous in having children (because children from large families often are well brought up.)

Ricardo, there is poor people in America too. I can’t possible do it justice here and there is tons written on why the whole poverty argument simply doesn’t work.

We’ve never bothered with NFP—-

Why not?  Well, because people are notoriously bad about predicting the future—- we give present events way too much weight.  So, “I can’t handle another baby right now” easily morphs into “I can;‘t handle another baby in 40 weeks”

On the other hand, God is omniscient.  He has a better idea of where I’ll be next year than I do.  And, at this point (I’ve been pregnant 5 times in the past and have 4 live children), extra kids don’t really make that much of a difference.  So why not just leave it up to God?

Some people harangue me because we never even bothered to LEARN NFP—-but 9 months is a long time.  It’s easy to get your life in order for another baby, especially since they start out tiny, don’t add much to the grocery bill if you nurse, and don’t take up any room…...

I think something in modern culture has caused a lot of perfectly healthy women to fear babies—- because they disrupt plans.  But you know what?  EVERYTHING disrupts plans.  Your parents disrupt plans.  Your neighbors disrupt plans.  A car accident disrupts plans.  At least babies are a PLEASANT disruption as opposed to a crisis.  And you can always make new plans…....

BTW—- My post wasn’t for Erin and Priest’s wife—-  I recognize that there are reasons for NFP—and if one of us was seriously ill, we’d probably use it….

BUT I’ve seen a lot of people avoiding kids not from medical concerns, but just from “not ready for another” or “But we’d planned….”

And I think there’s almost a cult of planning at work here—- part of life is realizing that you CAN’T plan for every contingency—-and that’s OK.

Just a quick note back to Mr Rimmer: The difference between eggplant preventing implantation and taking a pill that could do so is that one would be accidental and one would be knowing, if one did know about the Pill.

In any case, I am very saddened to hear you say that you don’t think an embryo is a human person before 6 weeks. Human life begins at conception—any embryologist will tell you that. And you yourself were an embryo, as were all of us, and we were just as much us then as now…only smaller and in need of much development. Had we been lost at one day, or two weeks, or 3 months…doesnt matter. We would never have come this way again. Every human being is unique, precious, and unrepeatable from the moment of conception…

Deidre- You may feelt hat way about planning. And I honestly think it is wonderful that you are so open to life and to God’s plans. However the fact is that there are a multitude of issues that may come up in a couple’s life that make delaying another pregnancy a prudent decision. I hear far too often from those critical of the use of NFP that those who do use it are being selfish or trying to take control completely out of God’s hands. You don’t know other people’s hearts or the crosses they bear. I would encourage you to reserve judgement on whether others are using NFP for good reasons or not and just continue to be a good example of generosity and trust.

God gave my husband and I intelligence. (well some anyway). I have the intelligence to know whether or not another pregnancy at 2 months post partum is a good idea or not. We know whether or not we will likely be able to afford another $8,000 in medical bills that year. Etc. etc. Does that mean God can’t handle those situations if we became pregnant unexpectedly? No. But prudence and self-control are virtues and I don’t think it necessarily means a lack of trust in God to employ these virtues. We can’t plan everything or control everything. But we pray and make prudent decisions to the best of our abilities and leave the rest in God’s hands.

...
Great post Jennifer, I really liked most of your points. I disagree that efficacy isn’t important as others have. When you have a good reason to avoid pregnancy it can be very assuring, especially when OB’s are pushing hormonal birth control down your throat.  But in general, I really liked what you had to say. Congratulations on your precious little one!

Evelyn, I know there is poverty in USA too. And poverty is not the only problem. My question is: if NFP is not really an alternative to contraception, what should we do in those “hard cases”, in which the couple just can´t accept unexpected pregnancies? For when we ask about the hard cases, people say: “they can use NFP”, and when NFP shows itself not to be so effective and easy for everyone, they say: “well, an unexpected pregnancie is not killing you”. It´s a serious question. Roman Catholic Church is the only church that don´t accept “exceptions” in this rule. Look at the Eastern Orthodox position on this issue.

Great article! NFP teaches us to love our spouse and family and place their needs above selfish desire. The couple works together and discerns God’s will for their family, but God’s will be done.  The collaboration between the spouses is much different than either no family planning or contraception.  I dislike the judgmental comments about NFP users.  Had I heard those when we started, I’m not sure we would have continued. Our NFP practitioner taught us with so much love and acceptance that we have not only used Creighton Model for 13 years, but I’ve taught it for 10 years as well. It’s been a tremendous conversion experience for us!  I try to teach the method with humility and love, and let God’s grace do the rest.  An open heart is all that’s needed and I wish more people would give it a try.

Simcha Fischer had a good post on NFP and grave reasons a few months back:

http://simchafisher.wordpress.com/2011/03/23/why-doesnt-the-church-just-make-a-list/

I agree with what you said Margaret H about intelligence and that God gave us a brain.  As for the $8000 in medical bills you will hear some say, “well for every child comes another loaf of bread after all”  Given that millions of children starve to death around the world I have trouble with that but to get back on track…In America the loaf of bread comes from the government and some who carry this extreme view believe that their lack of planning and inability to live within their means is ok because the gov’t can provide you medical insurance (and it is inexpensive, at least for them)and that takes care of your $8000.

It is wsie to use the brain God gave you and responsibly plan your children

Further to my above comment, replying to Paul Rimmer (which I had to write kind of in a hurry):

One really cannot get off the hook by claiming that the embryo is a human being, but not a person.

Point one: As I think Paul agrees, human embryos are just that—human. That is to say, they are human beings. It’s a scientific fact. They are members of the human species, genetically and structurally identifiable as such, unique, etc. And no human being’s life should be taken, nor even treated lightly, whether you want to call him or her a “person” or not.

If we love and respect human life, we will not even want to take a CHANCE of doing away with a fellow human being…this is the attitude that we must cultivate!!

Point two:  When it comes to abortion and other life issues, the whole debate about “personhood” is most often a smokescreen that we use to sooth our consciences, so we can all feel like we are good people even while being willing to harm or endanger our brothers and sisters for whatever reason.

This kind of linguistic manipulation and hairsplitting comes directly from the pro-abortion movement by way of the genocidal movements of the 20th century and, before that, of the slave trade. All of those movements, prior to attacking vulnerable and unwanted groups, first defined them as non-human or non-persons.

I am sure that Paul and everyone here is person of good will. So I say to you, we should never allow ourselves to accept this kind of manipulation of language.

The reality is this: none of us would accept being endangered or destroyed just because someone who is in charge of us or more powerful than us decided we didn’t qualify as “persons” and so weren’t worth worrying about.

I really want folks who are not yet in solidarity with the pre-born and other vulnerable people to think more deeply about what they are saying and what they should do, or not do, so that compassionate love will rule, and not just fear, or self-interest, or the power of might.

For the record, some of us with many children actually PAY for our health insurance. Yeah, it works out to 25% of our income, but it’s worth the cost to know that an unexpected sick kid or preemie is covered.

It’s pretty unfair to assume that single income families are ‘living off the state.’  Some of us just choose to have one car, no cable, etc. because it allows us to afford our kids! 

Also, I admit that part of my hands-off attitude comes from the fact that nursing tends to space my kids 2 years apart.  I’d imagine that Irish twins would be a much more high stress situation….

I feel compelled to add something else to the discussion, here.  Namely, that the purpose of the marital act is twofold: procreative *and* unitive.  To reduce the use of NFP as only a means to plan pregnancy is to completely ignore the intimacy and bonding that occurs between spouses.  For those who believe NFP is “against” Catholic teaching for purposes of planning pregnancy, remember that God didn’t create women to be fertile *every* day (only 5 days per cycle).  To assume that couples should *only* engage in intimacy on those days is false and not part of the plan for marriage.  Couples not only have the right, but the obligation, to prayerfully and appropriately discern whether or not “now is a good tiem” to be pregnant.  But they also have the right to engage in intimacy so as to promote closeness and bonding between them (hence the other purpose of sex).
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To those hurt by the use of NFP, I am sorry.  I truly believe that NFP, like so many other parts of marriage, is to be used as a tool to draw couples and families together.  In cases where it is used as a weapon to divide and separate, that also goes against the marital design.  There are many, many things that work to pull marriages apart, and, unfortunately, any “good” thing can be twisted for an ill intent.

Deirde, I agree and I know that some of you do that is why I stated “some”. However, there are Catholics who feel entitled to have a large family yet do not have the means to provide for the basic needs of their children.  By basic needs I mean food, clothing, shelter, health insurance.  This is where this theology becomes extreme.  It is not the government’s job to provide for our families.  It is our job to practice prudence and self control and find a means to provide our family.  The notion that some consider this common sense a need to exert to much control is baffling.

Maybe Jennifer lives in a completely different world than I do but the families that I see following what they call “providence”  are really having all they can do to be kind to the children they have each day let alone be present to them.  Sometimes the strain and stress they live under does not allow them to care for themselves mentally or physically.  We all have trials and sickness but we are also human beings with limitations.  I believe kids need parents who can be present to them and model for them a loving marriage more than they need another sibling.  Hey—if you can do it all that is great—my hat is off to you.

“True believers” can appreciate comments posted during this “open season” on NFP, as you are right, NFP does stand the test of time. It is important, however, to sort personal challenges/experiences/preferences of spouses with regard to NFP use from the actual scientific aspects of the methods which are proven reliable for achieving/avoiding pregnancy as well as sort actual Church teachings, which give couples authentic guidance regarding marriage and family planning, from personal interpretations of those teachings. Hopefully, readers looking for real answers will be able to make that distinction here and not be put off. Recent surveys indicate just how small a group of Catholics (anyone for that matter) of child-bearing age there are who are not contracepting &/or cohabiting.  With all the attacks on marriage today—divorce, illegitimacy,cohabitation, and of late, gay marriage, any discussion of NFP should mention the impact of NFP on the “big picture.” Couples choosing to use NFP, including those who find it difficult and/or who may dislike it, help uphold civilization’s “marriage” culture. By respecting the unitive and procreative aspects of the marriage act within their own marriage, these couples impact marriage within larger society as a force for the good: they are the foundation for any real culture of life and every effort should be made to support and “encourage [them] daily, while it is still today.”

Yes, Beth, and you can totally judge FROM YOUR POSITION AS OUTSIDER whether a family has ‘too many kids’ and whether parents can’t keep up.

Look, if I can’t look at a NFP-looking family and say “Their reasons aren’t grave enough!” (And I can’t, because I don’t know from my position OUTSIDE THE MARRIAGE) then you can’t look at a providentialist family and say, “They need NFP! They have too many kids!”

Alternatively, if you can call them imprudent and irresponsible, I can call you selfish and cold-hearted.  Your choice.

Mary’s “True believers” comment just above is so on target that I want to repeat part of it: .Recent surveys indicate just how small a group of Catholics (anyone for that matter) of child-bearing age there are who are not contracepting &/or cohabiting.  With all the attacks on marriage today—divorce, illegitimacy,cohabitation, and of late, gay marriage, any discussion of NFP should mention the impact of NFP on the “big picture.” Couples choosing to use NFP, including those who find it difficult and/or who may dislike it, help uphold civilization’s “marriage” culture. By respecting the unitive and procreative aspects of the marriage act within their own marriage, these couples impact marriage within larger society as a force for the good: they are the foundation for any real culture of life and every effort should be made to support and “encourage [them] daily, while it is still today.” RIGHT ON MARY. RIGHT ON MARY.

Beth that is great. you r doing what u r supposed to for yourself-but it is wrong of u to b judging the rightness or wrongness of others having a given (larger) family size. Want to know who ultimately allows creation of each new life? who ultimately opens and closes the womb? We have to take it up, then, with Him. On the other hand, when we see every family out there now with two children, we can know with certainty that our world has been infected with the contraceptive mentality. We still can’t look at any given family of four and judge them individually, but we can certainly look around us and judge that this us not in accord with natural law.

Beth,

When you say this:

“It is not the government’s job to provide for our families.”

You are exactly wrong. Popes Pius XII and Leo XIII have spoken to this issue in their encyclicals on social justice. It is the Christian duty of wealthier members of society to materially assist families who are struggling financially. We have absolutely no right to insist that poorer couples be denied their marital rights or children. What you suggest promotes only judgmental attitudes and contempt for poor families. Such “prudence” is not the mind of the Church.

Dear mrs mc g, I believe you have misstated or misinterpreted papal writings. I don’t believe the popes said GOVERNMENT is responsible…and that woul probably conflict with the very Catholic principle of subsidiarity as well ( those closest to a situation are best to address it).

Mary—Here’s one quote (there are more): Wherefore, those who have the care of the State and of the public good cannot neglect the needs of married people and their families, without bringing great harm upon the State and on the common welfare. Hence, in making the laws and in disposing of public funds they must do their utmost to relieve the needs of the poor, considering such a task as one of the most important of their administrative duties (no. 121 Casti Connubii)

I might add that the principle of subsidiarity can be upheld while poor families are assisted in their needs by wealthier families and local government programs. The Church’s teaching never obliges anyone to practice Natural Family Planning. Those who so desire may have recourse to natural means of postponing or preventing births for serious reason. But no one is ever obliged to use it for any reason. No one can insist that a married couple ever be deprived of their marital rights.

Dierdre,

I would appreciate it if you did not yell at me.  I am not yelling at you.  I am interested in a discussion.  I am not looking at this as an outsider.  I have been intimately involved in the lives of different families at different times over 2 decades and I am concerned for their well being.  They very openly share that they are sick, battling chronic illness and are not able to care for their children and their marriage communication and peace is non exisistant.  Yet, they do not believe in using NFP prevent pregnancy or are to overwhelmed to track their cycles.  These are human being with human limitations.  I help them regardless of whether or not I think they made wise decisions.  I am not speaking for all families or trying to place judgment on any particular one but some balance needed to be interjected into this conversation.  I hear families saying they are at their breaking point and they can not take anymore.  I hear women saying their husbands are so overwhelmed they can not cope and they do not want to spend time with their kids.  God intends us to plan and provide for our children and this is part of church teaching.  I believe children deserve parents who are present and siblings can not take the place of this. 

The Church does not teach it is the government’s responsibility to provide for our families.  Assistance should be there for short termed unplanned emergencies.  We have the ability to seek out ways to provide for our families and sometimes that includes delaying a pregnancy for a few years so you can get on your feet.  I know many poor families that provide for their families without gov’t assistance so please don’t tell me I don’t think poor famlies should not have large families or throw the I’m being judgmental card at me.  When you get gov’t assistance you are taking from someone—it is not free. America is filled with entitlement and in my opinion some Catholics believe they are entitled to have as many kids as they want without regard for their responsibility to provide for them.  I am very surprised at the outcry with any mention of responsibility.  I am talking about the discernment process before conception and future planning—I do not think anyone should not be given assistance.

**please don’t yell at me, I am open to hearing various thoughts**

“...some Catholics believe they are entitled to have as many kids as they want without regard for their responsibility to provide for them.” 
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Catholics are entitled to as many children as God gives them, and they are entitled to remain radically open to life regardless of circumstances. Really! Are they obliged to remain “radically open” (no NFP)? No, of course not. But no one is obliged to use NFP—ever. We are co-creators with God. And, God is never going to “punish” a couple with a baby for being “irresponsible.”
//
Do families have an obligation to exert themselves to the best of their ability to provide for their children? Yes, of course. No one should just “mooch” off government charity due to sloth. But government funds—public charity—are there precisely for married couples and poor families who are in hard times. Unfortunately, welfare can be and is abused by some who do not wish to work…usually not married and usually not devout Catholics.

To “agree with you” who said: “I thought the most insane comment was the one about women accepting grave circumstances as the norm.”

I think you misunderstood my statement and the context in which I was saying that. A cursory glance at obstetric history before NFP methods were developed shows that pregnancy and childbirth presented grave risk each time a woman got pregnant. High maternal mortality was a fact of life, even in developed countries, until the late-mid-1940s. When Catholic couples got married prior to the modern era, they knew the high risks of normal pregnancy and childbearing when they married and accepted them. I’m not saying that I think Catholic couples must shun NFP and ignore known medical risks. I am saying if we evaluate “serious risk” in historical context, it’s unlikely, though admittedly I’m not absolutely certain, that the greater majority of modern American Catholics have a need to actively work at preventing births during their marriages.

Mrs mc g, I see u r an intelligent and well read woman. Please give me the skinny on where u r coming from and going to. What’s the bee in your bonnet? I want to understand. Thanks. :)

Beth—I think I may have a little grasp on where u r coming from. My bottom line comment is that if people choose not to, or perhaps lack the relationship or psychological skills to, at some point integrate prayerful consideration into their intimate relationship—and their resulting family appears or is said to be beyond their ability to handle, they may not be acting in as fully human a way as God gave them the ability or intended them to. This is true. I too am intimately aware of families who I think fit this description. It’s beyond question that the Church recognizes the legitimacy of a couple considering whether a new child must be regretfully foregone at a given time, or at least considers the spacing of their children. Nevertheless, the kinds of concerns you raise, or perhaps the particular way you raise them, can lead to a mentality that we ultimately control conception. And we don’t. We are co-creators. The Lord opens and closes the womb. This is not piety. This is truth. I think it might be a temptation to slip into social worker mode. But that’s below the standard of Christ, or at least Mother Teresa said something like that. I think I grew up in a family like what you describe and I still believe in faith, even though things still are not at all pretty, stubborn me feels deep down inside that God was still God in allowing each baby to be conceived. Frankly, that’s the truth, and it makes the consequences bearable.

One important question:

Is not Contraception (I just mean Condom or DIU) openned to life because if you use them you are accepting God’s Will in their failure?

Recently I’m not in peace because Church “changed its mind” during History plenty of times. For example: about capitalism, about liberal sistem, about ecumenism…

Could it be possible with Contraception?

Hi Francisco, you have some good questions and you remind me of myself when I was first trying to tackle the Church’s teaching on contraception. I highly recommend going to the forums at Catholic Answers (www.catholic.com) and ask your questions there for a true “discussion” of the issue; it was extremely helpful for me. The short answer to your question to your question, though, is that the Catholic Church has never changed a teaching on faith and morals and because of that she will not EVER change her teaching on contraception…and when you dig into the reality and philosophy backing this teaching you will see why as well.

I just had my 5th child at 40, a wonderful surprise for our family but only in retrospect, as her conception had us worried for a variety of reasons. My husband and I never really learned how to do NFP properly, as a team, and we will be embarking on that soon, so please pray for us. He’s not quite convinced that it is effective.

Hi, Mary—My comments on the government’s responsibility to families were in response to Beth who said that Catholic couples have an obligation to procreate “prudently” and “responsibly” with regard to their finances. Her thinking is very common among avid NFP advocates, so I believe it is important and necessary to point out that the Church has traditionally held that responsibility rests on the shoulders of society to support families who are being generous with God in their openness to life. Couples in financial straits are certainly permitted to use NFP, but they have the right to their marital rights if they choose not to use NFP. We should never find ourselves in the position of looking at other families/couples and disdaining them because we feel they are mooching irresponsibly off society by being open to life. It’s not a Catholic attitude. In financially and spiritually supporting poor families who are trying their best to be generous with God, we support the creative work of God Himself.
//
To look at a family who had “another baby” and think: “They’re being irresponsible; they have no money” is an increasingly prevalent attitude among Catholics. I think this line of thought has its origins in the political ideas of many non-Catholic Republicans who begin by hating the abuses of the current welfare system and extend their disdain to poor families for needing assistance. They ask why these families are taking money from their pockets and not using contraception. It’s a judgmental, selfish, non-Catholic attitude.

So, MrsMcG… your opinion is that Catholics have an obligation to behave irresponsibly and imprudently?

Where is this found in Catholic teaching?

My oldest daughter had 7 wonderful children.Nine yrs. later she had a little girl,they called her the HAPPY SURPRISE! She is just that,yes we all love her as We do all the others BUT,she is also corrected as all the others were,as that is part of love.Mom was a stay at home Mom until the last one went off to school,so she once again became a stay at home Mom until her little girl was older than begain to work part time.Our HAPPY SURPRISE will be off to school this fall.She would come and spend the day with me on my day off if Mom worked that day,which was great for bonding as I spent alot of time with the other grandkids when they were young and feel so close to them.They have always paid their own way. I to get upset with people who abuse the system,they need to work,many refuse to work and it has nothing to do with how many kids they have,they can also use natural family planning,some only have one child or two.I have heard it more than once"I don’t want to work to much & lose my food stamps”.I believe 75% of the people on welfare are just to LAZY to work and some are 3 generation or more welfare. Its a way of life,& the government is the reason because some misguided souls without common sense are crying “Oh,poor them”.It has nothing to do with kids,I know in the adult work places for the handi-capped the older people love to work & get a pay check,they are full of love and kindness. The 20s group barley work,demand what they want and lack the self respect or respect for others that the older groups have.The government tells them they can have want they want,gives them a 800 number to call if they don’t get their way.We love them all,and show them they are worth respect,they need and want love and respect.I think putting them into the regular school system has backfired for most as they know they can’t do things so the lack of self respect starts,when they are with peers they can be themselves and if you have common sense you know this is true for all of us,that is what the saying about “feeling like a duck out of water"means,It does not matter which group you fit in “its the fitting in that matters.”

Mrs McG,

I’m sensing that we have no common ground but I share a few thoughts anyway.

First of all I don’t consider sex a right but a responsiblity.  Being married does not mean you have the right to have sex when ever you want to and bear as many children as you can biological have and expect the gov’t to bear the responsibility of providing for yout family.  I’m not sure what you mean by taking away a married persons right to their marital rights?  NFP does not take away a couples ability to have sex.  It does involve some self control and communication.

Secondly, I never look at a family and think they are irresposible and what are they doing when they announce a baby.  When I was a single and did not have two dimes to rub together I babysat for free for years for a family in need and certainly appreciate society’s ability to help those in need.  I also recognize those in need have a responsibilty to help themselves and to take action to change their situation with the God given abilities they have.  I brought this up because there are extremes of thinking and I do believe God asks us to exercise prudence and responsibilty in the gift of procreation he gave us.  Babies come whether the circumstances are healthy for them or not—it is up to the human beings to discern.  I wish that God only sent babies into good situations but the biological reality of conception dictates that babies are sometimes born into situations where their basic needs are not met.  Having generations of women before me who were able to conceive many children but not actually love and be present to them I am a bit biased because I know the pain and suffering that results when children do not get their basic needs met.  I’m grateful I’m here but I’m breaking the cycle of dysfunction.  We have a responsiblity to get our kids to heaven and some circumstances can become obstacles to grace for them.

Lastly, God gave a free will and a means to discern via the Holy Spirit.  We have responsibility to use that free will and being co-creators with God we need to take the job he has given us seriously.  Being open to life means that we welcome new life but that we recognize that it is much more than the act of conception.  A new little live as a right to parents that are loving and present and those parents bear the primary rsponsibility for that child, not the government.

Great to see this discussion prompting so many responses. If you are interested, Fire of Thy Love will be hosting a pro-life event on Thurs. to offer an alternative to the contraceptive mentality. Check it out at http://fireofthylove.com/2011/07/16/y2l/

Mrs mc g—re your 1st graf (not copied here, i gave difficulty with some of it—will discuss with friend who uses NFP & is very bright & informed (has 6 kids too); will report back/comment further later.

Will say—Re the statement about what more Catholics r thinking—curious how you know, altho ut somewhat resonates. Finally, re the following, I agree that much of the culture has adopted this judgmental, anti-big-family attitude and Catholics, at least those less knowledgeable about the faith, are very likely to b influenced by the surrounding culture and thus us very problematic!

” To look at a family who had “another baby” and think: “They’re being
irresponsible; they have no money” is an increasingly prevalent attitude
among Catholics. I think this line of thought has its origins in the
political ideas of many non-Catholic Republicans who begin by hating the
abuses of the current welfare system and extend their disdain to poor
families for needing assistance. They ask why these families are taking
money from their pockets and not using contraception. It’s a judgmental,
selfish, non-Catholic attitude.

disclaimer:
Here’s my story which is too personal to share over the internet but I, too, wish I had more support and community on this.  You may judge if you like, but know that we are trying to make right with God despite our repeated failures which I do not take lightly. It’s couples like us we’ll have to address in helping as NFP is a completely counter-cultural mindset(despite what many say in comparing it to contraception.)  Most of us, unfortunately, aren’t struck off our horse into conversion but experience a process.

To Scott:

I was raised thru 13 years of Catholic school (with nuns!) and attending mass every Sunday. I stopped attending mass during my college and young adults years.  Both my husband and myself have sexual histories before meeting one another.  When we married, we began attending mass and gave our first “good confession” as adults and since have tried to receive this sacrament regularly.  Although we have never used artificial birth control, we have struggled with withdrawal, etc.  After child #4 was born we learned NFP (while breastfeeding-ugh).  While following the method extremely carefully we have conceived 2 more times and miscarried both babies.  We have since found it necessary to abstain for longer periods of time than the method suggests.  This has been a struggle and sometimes we fall into mortal sin with use of withdrawal, etc. It has been very difficult, to say the least.  I am more serious about making the changes but I know my husband wants to too.  I feel sad for him that, as a man in our culture, there is much less support for him trying to make this change.  I believe this has been so difficult for us because of our past sexual histories and that this is the first time we are trying to practice purity and chastity. In our case, I certainly see (and speaking of our case only!) how God wants us to foster prudence. 
I have found getting to confession OFTEN (once a week), offering up our periods of abstinence as reparation for our sexual sins, communication, reading supportive material, and prayer are helpful. However, God only meets us half-way and we are so weak. Thankfully He is so strong.

To stilllearning:

I seriously thank you from the bottom of my heart for your personal story.  I too am struggling to make this part of my life right with God, and make confession regularly to repair my relationship with God (it hurts me so much to be in mortal sin and deny the Eucharist at Mass).  While I can grasp the Church’s teaching on sex and contraception on a theoretical and spiritual level, it is so much more difficult to implement it and believe it on an emotional and practical everyday level. 

And while discussions like this one are helpful, I often get let down because of the hard leanings of each camp, those who disagree with the Church’s teachings outright and those who hold it dearly and (although not everyone, but a majority that I have read online) concentrate on the sin angle and not the love angle, that I believe God wanted us to have this teaching in which to become closer to Him.

I truly believe that if more people told their stories on how they got here, it would do more to repair our sexual culture and aid those who are not as lucky to be fully living our lives in God’s way than any lawsuit stopping Planned Parenthood from performing abortions or local schools from distributing condoms to students.

This is not easy, and I appreciate the help and honesty in the Catholic community.

Mary -

The church calls sexual intercourse between married couples the “marital right”.  This isn’t a phrase made up by MrsG.  Spouses have a right to one another’s bodies.  We do make ourselves pregnant, God is the one who decides.  Therefore, a couple should never be told that they are “irresponsible” for being open to life - even if they are poor.  Money is not a prerequisite for having sex during fertile periods.  The Church teaches that a married couple *must* perform the marriage act - but does not specify how frequently/infrequently it is performed.

If it was left up to Mary to decide the best time for Christ to be conceived, do you think she might have waited until she were married adn living with her husband? 

There is no crime or sin involved in being poor.  God knows each couple’s situation more perfectly than they when HE decides the right time for a child to be conceived. 

If you are so anti-government aid being given to large families, then I hope you are taking that anti-government-aid passion and helping those in your immediate community.

As a disclaimer, my husband is a very good financial supporter of my family and I do not anticipate that we will ever need financial assistance.  I hope that my tax dollars go to supporting families with lots of children rather than the money going to planned parenthood to kill children of poor women.  This idea that many children are a drain on society is what leads to abortion.

Whoops, should read “we do NOT make ourselves pregnant”. LOL.

To stilllearning and Scott—

Thanks for your posts. The larger “body of Christ” needs to support and encourage couples like you, who, after prayer and discernment, are spacing pregnancies or avoiding pregnancy for the good of each other or the family. You are right, NFP is not always east, perhaps an understatement at times, but it has its benefits too. Do think that prayer—particularly the rosary, Sacrament of Reconciliation and getting to Mass during the week sometimes, when possible are very helpful.

Will keep you in prayer too, hope you persevere and known that there are others out there like you who share your journey.

To add to what “new mom of two” said about marital rights—the Church teaches that a couple *may* abstain from their marital duty from time to time and have recourse to infertile periods, but nowhere does the Church teach that a married couple is obliged to abstain for any reason.

I don’t have too much more to add to this conversation. But, as I was thinking about all of this last night, a thought came to me: When we say that poor families need to be prudent and avoid having more children than they can “afford,” (a rather relative concept from culture to culture), we have confused children with commodities. A poor family should be prudent and not spend money they don’t have on *material possessions* or enjoy *luxuries* they cannot afford, but children are neither possessions, nor luxuries.

As Catholics, we see all children as blessings, even if the situations they are born into are imperfect. Every child is made in the image and likeness of God and possesses an immortal soul intended to give Him glory in Eternity. This is why government assistance to poor families (through our tax dollars) is doing the work of God when they assist poor families in need. And, let’s not forget, what you have done for the least of these…

There are so few families being this generous in this day and age that I really don’t think we need to worry ourselves about their “taking advantage” of our tax dollars to support the physical needs of their children.  And, I cannot imagine that many Catholic families who are radically open to new life as a choice of faith espouse an attitude of casual and indifferent dependency upon the State or others. In our current culture, such a decision requires a lot of faith and trust in the providence of God. And, relying upon the charity of others and the good will of one’s neighbors to meet the needs of one’s family is deeply humbling. The virtues of faith and humility are far more beneficial to one’s personal salvation than a worldly sense of prudence.

I recommend the Vatican translation of Humanae Vitae saying couples may use NFP for “serious/just” reasons, not ‘grave’ ones, & these can include economic, social, psychological or physical conditions.  The discussion here focuses on systematic NFP, yet, for newcomers, some use “Ecological Breastfeeding” to space babies. Search Natural Family Planning International or “Seven Standards of Ecological Breastfeeding/Kippley.  This is frequent nursing day and night, co-sleeping and daily naps without using bottles, pacifiers, pumps, sleep training, or schedules. There must be no bleeding after 8weeks post-partum; most mothers will have no cycles for 9 to 20 months or longer. See the Academy of Breastfeeding Medicine for support of co-sleeping.  I experienced this for 6 children.

I would have to disagree that people who need control wouldn’t bother to sign up for an NFP class. If they are sufficiently afraid of hell, they will. I am someone who definitely needs control and I’m also a devout Catholic. I took an NFP class before marriage and was heartened by the statistics about how effective it is. Unfortunately, all 3 of our kids were surprises, due to my very difficult cycles. I have PCOS, which makes NFP extremely hard. Despite going to an NFP-only doctor for several years and trying medications and nutritional suggestions, I still haven’t managed to regulate my cycles.

Unplanned pregnancy is *really* hard for me to deal with. I’ve often thought that if I lived at a time before we knew about NFP, especially a time when childbirth was dangerous, I don’t think I would have gotten married at all. At least NFP gives us *some* control. (We did have 3 surprises in 8 years of marriage, but it’s not like we had 8 surprises.) I keep using NFP because I’m Catholic and don’t want to go to hell. I take Church teaching very seriously, even though it sucks.

@Sarah—I agree that being a control freak and using NFP are not incompatible, but for me, fear of hell has little to do with it.  I did not grow up in the Catholic church and was not raised with religious objections to contraception.  What drew me to NFP was the information it provides about exactly what is going on inside my body at any given time, which no method of ABC can ever provide.  I knew it might “fail” and give us a baby when we weren’t actively trying to have one (so far it hasn’t), but that is true of all methods, and I felt that if it happened, it would be an easier surprise to accept.  Most of the NFP “failures” I’ve heard about seem to happen because spouses are overcome with irresistible desire and decide to throw caution to the winds during a fertile period, or because they’ve decided getting pregnant wouldn’t really be bad, even if they’re not actively trying, and stop being as careful and attentive to signs of fertility.  Usually on some level, the mothers seem to know that conception is possible when they choose to have sex, and if it does occur, they’re generally OK with it.  That’s a nice witness.  Most ABC “failures” seem to involve broken condoms, forgotten pills, or “I did everything right, the pill must have been faulty.”  There’s nothing nice or romantic or holy about that.  Conception becomes a blame game, in which “you” or “They” must have screwed up, rather than “we” made a choice.  NFP lets me feel like I have more control, rather than being a passive consumer of a manufactured product.

@NewMomofTwo and MrsMcG, according to the census bureau only about 10% of government assistance is provided to married couples.  Does that change your thoughts at all about government assistance?

I’ve got to disagree with Jennifer on this one.  As a young woman who was skeptical about NFP only a couple years ago and now fully embraces it, hearing a highly intelligent woman calling herself “bad” at using NFP would have been quite intimidating to me.  Being bad at abstaining is one issue, but lacking in understanding (of what is actually a quite simple process) is a completely different.  I am still unclear as to what the real problem is here.

Jennifer, I understand what you are saying about user error versus effectiveness, but “effectiveness” is tied up in ease of use!  Sure, none of this should deter someone who is already completely open to life, but to someone on the fence or has a serious reason for avoiding pregnancy, these comments can be quite scary.

I agree with Emily. Take for example this same type of situation if there were a mom/couple considering homeschooling. If she/they were to read a blog like this which similarly listed all the extra work, few benefits and comments to the effect that homeschooling really did not work, most likely she/they would decide NOT to homeschool.

The great majority of young people today are contracepting and cohabiting—the numbers are shocking. Those of us who support Church teachings in our married lives—that includes those using NFP and those not using NFP who remain open to life—should do our best to support and encourage each other as well as other couples who may be seeking answers on how best to proceed in their married life. We are the front line of the “pro marriage” culture.

Our service and love for the poor should also lead them to a way a supporting themselves.  There is something lost when someone becomes dependant on the government.  Something is taken away from them.  Our love for the poor does not just provide for them in time of need but also shows them a path for how they can support their families.  In the US assistance usually means long term dependance and we should work to find ways to change that.  37% of child births in the US are paid for by medicaid.  Whether a child comes from a loving Catholic couple or a single drug addicted mom we love and welcome all the of them.  It is not wrong to state that we also are responsible as human beings in the decisions we make. 

No one is trying to deny anyone children—just suggesting that perhaps it is prudent to use NFP to space your children you so you can support them and provide them the love and guidance they need to get to heaven.  Is it possible to conceive children irresponibly or imprudently?  I think it is—and reflect on obvious situations such as the Andrea Yates tragedy.  As Mrs McG says “no where does the church say a couple is obligated to abstain.”  Common sense tells me otherwise. Yet I still believe every child is a gift from God and God can work through all situations to bring about good.

bottom line: contraception is the real evil. Birth control/using artificial methods or for reasons that place materialism well above the blessing of that eternal soul, is downright evil, antiChristian, rather, is the act of participation with the devil’s work on earth.  The whole discussion that bounces around the use NFP, the how, the why, the goods and bads, are just harming the bottom line real truth…..that the practice of contraception is truly the devil’ work.  This must be battled and exposed most of all. NFP is just NFP.  It is not contraception.

Contraception is evil. It is masked by this false attitude on life…this false goal and aim. To exercise “control” is not to “contracept”.....but to grab life by the horns and make sacrifices that are not aimed for materialism and easy living, but for others in that powerful intimacy of marital love, in the home.  That involves 2 main parties….the husband, and the children.  To try and say one person can or cannot handle 10 kids, or to try and say a person can or cannot handle more than 3 kids is not necessarily the best dialogue. The best dialogue is that contraception is a violent mentality towards marital love, marital embracing, children, family, and unity with God.  It is a violence that pierces Christ’s heart over and over again. WE cannot forget how evil contraception is and where this widespread “Acceptance” and practice has brought the “large family of Christ” into an abyss of worldliness. It is always worth noting to those who contracept that there are children whom you denied, and instances where you slammed shut the door on God’s face when he was there ready with his love and plan to bring a new blessing to this earth. Contraception is the practice of the lukewarm whom he will vomit out….....there is time for conversion…..as long as we are on this earth, and to make amends with Him by getting off the pill, healing the body from all those nasty hormonal pills, and to live life for “real”, not manipulating it, and making excuses all revolving around the “self”, the “Self, the “self.

I think it is dangerous to say claim that user effectiveness doesn’t matter.  Some people have serious reasons for not having a kid.  They need a reliable means of avoiding pregnancy, and it would be “really nice” if that didn’t involve living as complete abstinence.

In the experience of my wife and myself, we have found the sympto-thermal method to be the most reliable, because it relies heavily on the very objective temperature sign, as opposed to the more subjective mucous sign.  In studies of limiters vs. spacers, studies have shown sympto-thermal user effectiveness rates to be on par with (and sometimes better than) chemical forms of birth control such as the pill.  This sort of reliability matters.

I was listening to Janet Smith (Contraception, Why Not) on Catholic Answers and she mentioned “highly reliable” fertility monitors are available. Anyone know what these are?

Clearblue Easy is a great one, and you can get them online fairly reasonably priced.

Mrsceecee - Does knowing that 10% of government aid goes to married couples change my ideas about government assistance for those 10%? Nope.  That’s the 10% that should actually get it - which is why there should be no room for that topic in this discussion.  Do I think that the government system is messed up? Yup! Absolutely - but that doesn’t mean that we should criticize the ONE THING that might be actually doing some good people some good. 

The people that I know that receive government assistance (realizing that I have a pretty Catholic circle of friends)are hardworking families where the mom stays home with three to upwards of ten kids.  For the government (i.e. me, the taxpayer) to support those families is awesome.  And I don’t think that those families should feel guilty about being open to life and taking the government’s (i.e. MY) money.

Poverty is not a crime, and families who are open to life should not feel ashamed that the rest of the community has to chip in.  Conversely, the rest of the community should HAPPILY support them and not make them to feel guilty for receiving lots of blessings.

About 50% of pregnancies in this country are “unplanned.”  Planned Parenthood and the media act as if this is some sort of tragedy, but the real tragedy would come from eliminating those pregnancies altogether, as some suppose would represent “progress.”  It takes only some simple figuring to see that if we’re only barely experiencing a replacement rate of fertility now, and that even if half of those “unplanned” pregnancies end in abortion, the elimination of the rest would have a deleterious but serious effect on our population in just a couple generations.

@Elaine: the best monitor for avoiding conception is Persona, which you can only buy in the UK (& Canada, I think).  Unlike Clearblue, it gives you a heads up as to the days right before you become fertile, not when you are already fertile (& then it may be too late!).  Why this monitor is not allowed to be sold in the US is incomprehensible.  You can use the same test strips as ClearBlue, it’s a type of morning urine test and so has no side effects, unlike bcp & IUDs. 

Google “persona monitor” and read more about it. 

If it were easier to buy, it would be the perfect thing for those of us who need more certainty (with a little less abstinence). When used in conjunction with NFP, it has something like a 99% success rate.  It was GOOD for my marriage!

newmomoftwo:  Many Catholic families I know are poor but do not live off government assistance.  Sometimes the husband works more than one job or the mom works as well either from home or away from home opposite shift from her husband.  Staying at home full time is a luxury some do not have.  These are both large and small families.  They recognize the moral responsibility they have to provide for their families. While it is hard they know they are able to.  I understand emergencies or medical problems arise and assistance is needed at times.  I consider living off the gov’t to be stealing from the above mentioned families who are also poor but find a way to provide.  At the very least families on assistance should have a goal to be off a assistance rather than depend on it to raise their families.  The church should walk the talk and provide for Catholic families in need instead of the government.  I’m not sure why it has become the governments job and not the church’s job to provide for those in need.

I think the ‘fertility monitors’ were invented to help folks achieve pregnancy. I think it measured the LH hormone which is right before ovulation and may help couples with timing issues to achieve pregnancy.  I have heard of them being useful, also,  to help understand a symptothermal chart when learning, but other than that, it is costly to use because a symptothermal chart shows to same information for avoiding pregnancy {not that I like helping people avoid pregnancy}. But, for the above question and response, I do wonder what the Persona monitor checks for, and shows ( versus the clearblue) and, if they indeed give you a “heads-up” more so than clearblue .  It is my understanding not to solely use them for avoiding pregnancy as was alluded to: it is often very near to ovulation and may be too late to begin abstaining if avoiding a pregnancy.

Nice comment, Micaela…control is not contraception and just using NFP, even if ‘selfishly”,  gets folks off the contraception and hopefully into a state of grace (Confession may be needed// it was for us).  I have seen over and over again, just being obedient moves them to be even more open to do God’s will and consider “one more” and/or then on to maybe NO NFP ( become ‘providential’ )...but, if they need NFP it IS morally okay.

No, Francisco, using contraception is not being,  “open to life because you will accept any child” .  Using contraception is doing something to the marital embrace that you are engaging in, to avoid a pregnancy. That is what makes it objectively evil - you are meddling with the natural law that God created where the two coming together may result in a pregnancy. And so, to avoid a pregnancy that is not desired, the two are to avoid relations for a time.  That way, your intentions to avoid a pregnancy, more honestly match your behavior as well.  When we used art. contraception, we had relations all the time which did not result in a pregnancy - this is NOT matching our intentions, it is unnatural,  plus we were “at war” with one another by canceling-out someone’s fertility.

I found something called Ovucue, sold in the US, that gives you warning 7 days before ovulation. They are seeking FDA approval as “contraception”. This must be what she’s talking about? It’s $250 but sounds well worth it.

Its great to be open to children but some couples can’t take a chance and even use a combination of BC..charting and using a method when it’s “safe” but maybe “not safe”.
I know when I lived in a 2 bedroom condo with 3 children and no storage, it was hard, very cramped, but we eventually got to move to a somewhat larger home but still small. Some couples never left and had same sexes together, storage issues, never could have a pet,etc.
I know we paid a price for me staying home for a few years and then working part time for another 2, but I wont regret it. I couldn’t afford good daycare and I couldn’t afford not working..car repairs, other bills, etc. would take hundreds we didn’t have. We lived with basic things, not extras. I did pay for Catholic school for 8 years and we never took a vacation or had newer cars…I think it was worth it but others think we were crazy.
I don’t think a human life that you not only love, but have to educate, send to college and pay for numerous things is something that can “just happen”. If you are lucky to live somewhere that has a lower cost of living, or a husband that makes enough money to sustain you (I’ve seen that many times) than fine, but life is precious but you should have not only space in your heart, but in your home. Nothing is 100% but if you use 2 things and also avoid sex during certain periods, it should be.
I think BC can be sinful but not a sin in itself. I think God gave us common sense and every situation is different and couples anxiety, etc.
I don’t think NFP is a one size fits all.

I have also seen chidren, brothers/sisters in one room and it can get dicey when older. (sheets hung aren’t a perfect solution)
I think birth control used wrong, with unmarried couples and couples that are just selfish, is wrong, it made many unmarried couples and singles treat sex like a hobby, but it didn’t create unmarried sex, that always existed. My 2 girls, 19, are considered “young” for their age, they where stylish but modest clothes, no makeup (they really don’t need it) and don’t sleep around, BUT they are lonely many weeks. Its almost a given that a guy will think you will sleep with him, at least after a few months and I pray they can withstand the onslaught of messages that they are “weird” and stay on a course they feel is right.

I feel we were given common sense and to ask God to help you space children (as some say they do) is like asking him to not let the cars hit you when you run across the street…cause and effect happen and biology can be very irregular. I believe in prayer and interceding but we have to take care of our family and ourselves. If someone could die from a pregnancy or have grave results, maybe a hyterectomy is better than the anxiety and celebacy of a still young couple.They can adopt and have children other ways if they want more. To ask God to help you with NFP under situations where another child would be dangerous or very unwise, I feel is like the man on top of the house waiting for God to help him during the flood, no boat, no plane, He will come to get me…sometimes we have tools to help us, nothing is “one size fits all”. I have read posts on sites that made me scared for some couples, it was like russian roulette.

I think if BOTH husband and wife are 100% united on NFP, fine, but if one isn’t, the harm it can do to the marriage has to be measured.

Beth,

It has always been the Church’s job to provide for those in need.  Just read the Acts of the Apostles. Remember that the Diaconate was set up exclusively for the support of widows and orphans.  Almsgiving has ALWAYS been part of the Church’s mission.  Always.

Newmomoftwo, I totally agree with Beth.  You shouldn’t have kids that you can’t afford and staying at home should not be an option when the extra income would help your family.  As Beth stated shouldn’t these hardworking Catholic families go to the Catholic Church for assistance.  I think you’re taking this “being open to life” thing a little too far without using common sense.

(Gabrielle&BJ;)  For Catholics, it is objectively wrong to do a “combination of BC & NFPmethod” plus, wrong to “get a hysterectomy” to not have children (that=sterilization).  Only God can judge, yet we are expected to seek the truth & live it according to Jesus’ Church which He set up & the Holy Spirit does guide.  Many high-risk doctors//more supportive ones exist & can help with a difficult pregnancy.  Many have found these doctors & have driven distances for this, myself included.  Symptothermal charts are the most complete; more abstinence may be needed if a pregnancy is not desired, & there ARE truly infertile times to come together. Search Natural Family Planning International. Prayer, Confession and Eucharist DO help - it is not like “being on a roof”.  If a spouse won’t cooperate, they are the problem, not NFP.  I will pray for you all and offer up my sufferings for this.

Mrsceecee, your response is so secular I don’t know why u bothered to comment, we get it on the news every day. This is a Catholic blog discussion. What a negative, grim, condemning response. In all the comments here, yours brought steam coming out of my ears.

In case I didn’t make it clear, mrsceecee, who are you to be so directive in the intimate, personal matter of whether someone can “afford” to have children or not? Please do tell because I missed that Vatucan guideline, what are the income and expenditure guidelines? If I want a boat, should I skip the baby, because I can no longer afford him or her? Oh, and could you call my sister? Because she was thinking it was her responsibility to stay home with her children , being they need a mom and that IS her name, she was thinking of staying home with them…of course, that would mean no new car, used clothes…gosh, she needs to know where her priorities lie! I mean, thinking of staying home Shen her family could use the extra income…and thinking they would keep that baby that came even when they were being prayerful and prudent? Sheesh. Who does God think he is, anyway?

It’s nice to know that God has better plans for our family than we did. I am quite sure our 8 children would agree. I used think I was giving NFP a bad name after my fourth child. But now I know I am a great example of the blessing God provides through NFP.

The church can’t always help those in need, not the way a child has to be cared for. Even Judie Brown on EWTN’s life forum, agreed with a post that Birthright and others give a lot for a year or so, diapers, cribs, etc. but what about after that? No one has answers for the hard years later. Depending where you live, even with second hand clothes, etc. it is expensive.
I had 3 children and had them go to Catholic school for 9 years (pre-k) but couldn’t afford high school at 11000 a year. Scholarships aren’t available for most and the priest told me an Anne Seton Scholarship couldn’t be funded anymore by our archdiocese to help even with grade school. We always had old cars,12 years old was the last, no vacations, my kids were the only ones they knew that didn’t go to Disney World or on an airplane by the time they were 18. Not a horrible thing, but you feel like you should have exposed them to something else. College is a struggle, but we took out loans, they were smart enough to get scholarships and one check from my job goes toward it, but I want them to be educated well, but if I had more than 1 more child, I don’t know if I could have. I couldn’t go and I paid a price for that.
I see large family’s at church, most can afford them, and it’s a beautiful thing, but not every parent is equipped mentally and emotionally for that. Some large families I knew were close, others not, some left the church or were not religious, there is no guarantees in life. Mother Angelica knew a mom that had 9 children I think and no one visited her, you have to want children for the right reasons, not for what you think might happen later.
I think the title, although well meaning is off-putting at first glance. Failure can be a good thing, but most people don’t want the anxiety of knowing that it just doesn’t work. A “mistake” with a baby is a blessing but can also stress an already depressed mom or over-worked dad…we aren’t cookie-cutter parents.
NFP biggest issue are parents of large families that push it, when someone might want 4 or under, they hear the spiel, but think, “Am I bad for not wanting 10 children in a 2=3 bedroom home? Some parents that had less and wanting less are better examples, sometimes you find smaller families with NFP, they just couldn’t conceive and that is scary also to a young couple that is afraid.

I’m not putting down NFP, it’s just the presenting of it is off-putting to many and I think it should be presented in a different way and if it worked as well as BC, then why all the stress and unplanned pregnancies, no one can do any of the methods well it seems..some people abstain a lot, try different methods, they feel wrong in not wanting another child a year later, unless you are completely on the same page with your spouse, NFP can be very stressful and take the enjoyment out of that aspect of your marriage.
Again, if it works well, as some pro-life people have said, show couples that are loving and have less children because of matters they felt were necessary, not a family with 12 that said, We love NFP” It’s wrong to expect others to always take care of you because you had children you couldn’t afford or would stress the relationship with your spouse and knew you couldn’t. We have to try to be responsible. Unexpected things happen, but be responsible.

Suzi, what to you mean by God’s plan? If you have pregnancies with NFP, it’s because you had sex when the egg and sperm were available. That happens in any situation, married, single, young or older.

I hope your children always are blessings and you do have more love and hopefully help with them. Every child is precious but if you think others will think you are a bad example for NFP it’s because you hadn’t planned on them. Take that responsibility between you and your husband, if NFP didn’t space or prevent pregnancy, it didn’t work at least that month. You can say you welcome any child but you don’t see that happen with BC as often so of course it will be scary to some parents.

I’m not condoning BC, it’s just that saying it’s God’s plan when someone might be using the wrong method or not doing something correctly, is passing the responsibility to someone else instead of yourself.

Enjoy your children, but I think I would just say, we welcome children as they come, my heart and home can hold them.

Mary cracraft, I’m sorry you were upset about my comment.  I read and re-read it and I didn’t think it was that harsh, but for that I apologize.  I’m sorry if I’m not welcome here by you because I am not Catholic.  I enjoy a lot of the articles and bloggers; although I’m not Catholic I have found a common ground and have learned a lot from a lot of the commenters.

I don’t look at anyone and gauge whether they can afford to have another child, but I can tell they can’t afford another child if they are seeking public assistance.  That’s common sense.  It is no longer personal or intimate when you are asking the public for money.  Secondly, my sister is a SAHM by choice and I think it works for her and her family and no they have never asked for public assistance, nor does my sister live an extravagant lifestyle (as you stated no new car, used clothes, etc).  When they need assistance (not just financial) we as a family pull together to help out with her kids and household items.  For example, last year we held a yard sale at her house with all proceeds going to her.  She also had a surprise baby last year that she was so upset about and I encouraged her to be happy and feel blessed.

Just because a couple uses contraception, does NOT mean they have a “whenever, wherever” approach to intercourse. That’s just as ignorant and mis-informed as “everyone using NFP has a baby a year.” There’s a lot of other factors involved. In fact, even though I do use the pill (and hate it, but I have yet to convince the other half that NFP can work) my husband and I only have intercourse when it’s safe to do so, aka: not during the sugar pills and not during the first few days of a new pack.

Now that I’m thinking about my DH’s attitude with my pill-taking, he really SHOULD look more into NFP. He’s the one always asking me if I took my pill, setting the alarm so I take it the same time every day, even on weekends, asking if my period is coming, etc. Pretty much the same as asking me about my mucus, handing me a thermometer, etc, no?

But question for those of you who might stumble here to see this late-to-the-game comment: how many of you NFP users work full time outside of the home? I will have to work when we have children. DH’s salary wouldn’t even cover a rental in our expensive area. It has been my (probably limited) experience that most NFP users stay home. I doubt that these are correlated, but it is very coincidental. I’m curious—I’m a cradle Catholic who is getting more conservative as she gets older—but know very few practicing Catholics anymore. Thanks!

(Dear Jen)it is NEVER “safe” to take the Pill for the possible baby that you might conceive on the Pill EVEN during regular pills because it is probably a low-dose abortifacient which means that if you conceive {there IS an estimated 4% chance of a breakthrough ovulation in any given woman in any given cycle},the baby may not be able to implant:: the Pill thins the endometrium (read the insert carefully) i.e., you have light periods; this is a very frightening consequence emotionally/psychologically which I still deal with more than 20 years after taking the ghastly stuff that no one told me this about!  Search Breast Cancer Prevention Institute/ American Life League/ NFP International for pdfs and links - please just start charting - hubbie will hopefully get on board - YOU take the reins on this one ride.

The Pill is also a steroid, which men are told to avoid, but not women; so, steroids increase the chances that your health will be hurt in a multitude of frightening ways and is not ‘safe’ for the woman either.  Please search the above sites. Doctors have been known to flat out deny these truths/facts, even though it is in their own medical journals and studies.  I am a health professional and am aghast at the pure denial gymnastics some medical people go through to dance around these issues.  Studies have been done that show, yes, one may be more likely to conceive on the sugar pill days, etc, but breakthrough ovulations can be any time during the pills.

Gaby, thoughtful comments on presenting NFP! I do know couples with smaller families that present NFP + JEN: there are some NFP moms who work/ I know them; I did for a time but got very serious about staying home & have moved/downsized home twice, hubbie went back to school. Sometimes I think that maybe a mom working could send a message to some dads that maybe he does not need to go to the effort to go to school?get two jobs?move to another area? however hard this is. We thought for us, Biblically it IS the man who was commissioned to work all the days of his life and it IS the woman who has the breasts to nurture the child. BUT JPII did write in the dignity of women document that women can do MUCH in the workplace so now I volunteer a lot.  THAT said, I have worked outside the home but with prayer/discernment, we agreed that raising children for us is the far-more important job to do w/eternal consequence for them, and living extremely simple is how we did it when I stayed home. No regrets here.  Just posting our thoughts - I KNOW some women HAVE to work - YES!

AC- Just want to point out that your comment way oversimplifies gender roles. Look at proverbs 31…the woman made money for her household.

The thing is,more dads used to work out of the home, or at least near to it. Often husbands and wives ran businesses/farms/etc. together.

Now for most families making a living means driving away to work all day long.  This makes decisions about working and child care more complicated.

I personally will not move and leave all of my family and support just to be able to stay home full ti

AC, I think a different approach would help a lot, but some NFP counselors are so afraid to talk too much about not having children, it makes NFP not be “planning” at all.
I wonder how some families fit so many children in their homes. We had some large families growing up, but they added rooms, had workable basements, etc. We live in a 3 bedroom home and 2 bedrooms are small, one would fit 2 bunks, the other just fits a twin. IF I kept having children, I don’t where we would have put them…we were living in our means, a bigger home would have been too much. I love living in the north east for some reasons, but it’s not like the South or mid-west with prices. From what I hear, the pay wage can be lower there though.

If NFP doesn’t work to limit children in certain conditions, that alone would make a couple not look too closely at it. Even with abstinence you can just be “off” and make a mistake in your cycle. I, under any stress would have my 28 day cycle be 21, be late, skip a month, charts were never accurate. Other friends were clock-work no matter what.

I would have loved to stay home longer, but we were struggling as it was, c cards were creeping up with home/car repairs and I refused to take my children out of Catholic school before 9th grade, something I don’t regret. If you have a husband that works 2 or 3 jobs like my dad did, that’s great, but I wished my Dad didn’t work as hard and we saw him more. When I told my mother he was so tired all the time, she got a part time job later when I was 11 or so and the youngest was 8 and that helped a little. Providing can be all on the husband but if he doesn’t make lot of money, it could turn his life into just work and no family.

Having Orthodox Jewish neighbors, I admire how they help families go to religious school, scholarships from the temple, by individuals, not many are denied if any. Education in all areas though is very important to them and I wish we as Catholics had more funds. It’s a shame so many can’t afford it.

Yes, Margaret, it is impossible to make generalizations regarding working. Biblically, the woman is the helpmate & this sometimes involves working/income. It terribly frightens me how working mom statistics show very fragile/dangerous environments for youth: drugs and promiscuity, etc;  we had seven young’ns in under 1000 square foot home for a time and the Lord provided a larger one just as the oldest went off to college; truly seek Him, as the Bible says, and ‘all things will be provided unto you’; we looked for 3 years to find a better situation/w/praying.  And, yes, dad’s presence is vital to the child’s development,too.  Again, contraception has played a part in changing the work/home scene; I think for the worse and this can be shown in statistics.  More NFP presenters and teachers are needed!

I would have loved to stay home longer but I have met many women who hate it, can’t wait to get back to adults and “sanity” as they put it. Granted, when my husband pulled up some days, I was “out the door” to even the drugstore to get some alone time. A half hour or hour later, I was refreshed. We had a lot of fun, housekeeping came second, not like my childhood and my children would love to have that themselves one day.

Many women just aren’t motherly and although they have children, aren’t cut out for many and that’s Catholic women and others of course. Some aren’t good mothers who have many and they’ll admit it. Growing up we had large families around us, some had Dad’s and Mom’ very involved in church and charity. Their children turned out pretty much the same as others, some fine, some into drugs/drinking, some kicked out of Catholic school, etc., some married with large familes also.
I believe being home and watching your children is very important but nothing guarantees outcome. I was just a stay at home/work part time type of person, I almost vomited when I saw lines of cribs in a day care an how everyone was on their schedule, not their natural one. BUT if I couldn’t squish out an existence on just my husband’s salary, who had overtime then (not now) then I’m not sure what I would have done, but I wouldn’t have taken chances with more children and daycare expenses.

I also feel that women should be educated because they aren’t mothers in the home forever. I remember my Mom saying to me, Why do you want to go to college, you’ll get married and have children. I told her, maybe I want to be well-rounded and educated AND have children. (she never had money saved for that, just weddings) It kept me from having better paying work and I regret it at times, but it wasn’t like today, where you can’t get in the door without one.

A large family is nice, but again not for everyone, and saying, well you have another coming when it might cause depression and stress on marriage is hard. I saw that with my aunt, she had one later in life with a kid, in junior high, high and college. She never really got better, even with pills and counseling. It probably triggered something with the hormones, I don’t know.

Large families scare many couples because they know they can’t afford them or fit them in their home and they shouldn’t feel guilty, if they know they can’t, God gave common sense to use it, just having kids come because you made a mistake or were stressed, tired, seems irresponsible but not a sin of course. You take care of your health, your marriage, the best way you can and that helps you be a good mother.

Gaby, I totally agree with everything you posted.

Thank you everyone for your replies. I wrote a long post, but something happened with the word verification, and my post disappeared! :( to keep it brief, I’m on the same page as Margaret H. and Gaby. Nothing in life is guaranteed, our husbands may get sick or die, and we will have to step up because it’s what’s best for our families. Our husbands might not make enough to support a family, regardless of how frugal or simple one might live. Everyone talks about women and choice, but what choice do we really have if we can’t afford to stay home? I often see the attitude from some women that it’s their right to stay home, no matter how hard the husband might work, or if he’d like some help in shouldering the burden. That bothers me, as if those of us who work don’t want to be good wives or mothers, that we are looked down upon. Maybe it’s really jealousy? I just wish there was a way to have the life I’d imagined, nothing too fancy, just the ability to stay home and raise my children. But life doesn’t always work out that way. Maybe someday it will. Only God knows. Thanks again :)

It’s not so much that we are bad at NFP as we just kind of don’t follow it sometimes…and sometimes that means a baby :) And oh are we glad we ignored it hehe!

On a societal level,
NFP = large families = economic distress = suffering = people turning to God

contraception = small families = widespread graduate education = long, healthy lives = people turning away from God

Uh oh… I hate to burst your bubble but I have a BA, my husband an MS, we have 4 kids at home on one on his own, we are doing ok financially, are faithful “Catlicks” and…I hate to admit it…we use NFP.

Good on it Elaine :) rock ON sister!

If I could get my wife to let me hit it for that “less fertile” part of the month, I’d be happy with rubbing one out as needed for the other part of the month.

For example:
http://www.irinnews.org/Report/91261/PHILIPPINES-Family-planning-urgently-needed

LOVED this post…

Since I have Dyscalculia (http://www.dyscalculia.org/) it seemed like Gods little joke on me all my life. I have 11 amazing, really smart children who run circles around their bird brained mother…LOLOL…so I was really really ‘terrible’ at it.

mary