U.S. Rep. Paul Ryan, R-Wis., is the chairman of the House Budget Committee. Ryan’s new book, The Way Forward: Renewing the American Idea, is part memoir and part policy blueprint. In the book, the congressman talks about his struggles with his Catholic faith and how the closing of a General Motors plant in Janesville, Wis., helped him appreciate the value of government safety nets. He says he was wrong to describe Americans who did not pay taxes as “takers," thus implying a value judgment about people who relied on government programs. During the 2012 election year, the GOP presidential nominee, Mitt Romney, and Ryan, his running mate, drew criticism for making such comments in the aftermath of an economic crisis.
During a Sept. 29 interview with Register senior editor Joan Frawley Desmond, the congressman reflects on how he has responded to Pope Francis’ call for Catholics to engage the poor and others on the “fringes” of society. Ryan’s recent proposals, which mark a new GOP effort to address economic inequality, include boosting earned income tax credits, which will allow Americans in low-paying jobs to take home more pay.
People may disagree with his ideas, Ryan said, but Pope Francis has not asked for “conformity, but participation” in an urgent debate regarding solutions that will help the poor.
In The Way Forward: Renewing the American Idea, you explain that you drifted away from the Catholic faith after your father’s death, when you were just a teenager, which “made God seem distant.” Can you explain what happened and why “gratitude” brought you back to the Church?
I was raised Catholic and went to Catholic schools. But when a tragedy like that strikes you unexpectedly, it makes you question everything.
I was angry that my father died. It was through friendship and reading that I came back to my faith, stronger than ever.
I felt gratitude because, even when tragedies strike, and God tests you, you can recover — as I did. It wasn’t an epiphany. It was a gradual reclaiming of my faith, as I realized what God and faith meant to me.
I had begun doing a lot of reading about my faith, especially Aquinas and C.S. Lewis. I love Mere Christianity and keep The Screwtape Letters on my iPad. It’s a fantastic reminder of faith in the context of daily life.
As a young person, I read quite a bit of everything. I especially liked Aristotle’s Nicomachean Ethics, and then read Aquinas and saw how he applied faith and reason.
Aquinas helped me appreciate the intellectual vibrancy of the Catholic Church. He made so much sense.
Ayn Rand had a strong influence on your economic policy, but you state in your book that, as a Catholic, you rejected her philosophy of objectivism. Is it possible to accept just part of a school of philosophy?
I really enjoyed Ayn Rand’s novels when I was young, and they triggered an interest in economics and in capitalism and free markets. I studied Milton Friedman and the Chicago school of economics. That led me into public service.
But I wasn’t drawn to her philosophy of objectivism. As a person using reason and faith, I disagree with objectivism because it reduces human interactions to mere contracts and is incongruent with human reality and human bonding.
Everyone in public life has an urban legend, and I have mine — Ayn Rand.
Your book celebrates the vital role of civil institutions, including churches, in the American idea of ordered liberty. But the GOP is increasingly influenced by the individualistic values of libertarianism. What’s the solution?
Some view politics [as a contest] between two poles — individualism and collectivism. The reality is that most of us lead our lives in a middle space, where the principles of solidarity and subsidiarity can operate in harmony.
As conservatives, we want to protect this space, but also breathe life into civil society, where we care for one other and where we can make a difference.
Respect for the important role of civil society is one element of conservative thought that needs to be revived.
I tell libertarians: One of the best defenses against [government overreach] is to live our lives helping one other, according to the principles of solidarity and subsidiarity.
I have invited libertarians to join the cause of protecting religious freedom because only then can we have a government that respects its limits.
Libertarians should be welcomed into the fight for conscience [protections].
In the 20th century, Catholic social principles like subsidiarity and solidarity were often cited in public debates dealing with economic policy. Today, you are one of the few national politicians to cite these principles, but you are also criticized for misapplying them. What is going on?
As a lay Catholic exercising my prudential judgment, I believe that free markets — not crony capitalism — encourage more personal collaboration than any other economic system. Free enterprise is not coercive, and it does also more to help the poor and lift up people.
We all need to bring our own expertise to these issues.
Pope Francis is inviting us to have a conversation so we can decide how best to advance solutions that will further human progress and freedom.
The debate is not settled. I have offered my way of applying Catholic social principles. There are those who won’t see it my way, and that is perfectly fine. The Pope isn’t asking for conformity, but participation.
You want to consolidate a dozen anti-poverty programs into a single “Opportunity Grant,” which would take federal money and let the states direct the funds as they see fit. The states, you said, “fight poverty on the front lines.” Is this proposal inspired by the principle of subsidiarity?
This is my attempt to apply the principle of subsidiarity to better serve the poor and respect individuals and their unique problems.
Much of your work has focused on deficit reduction. But in 2012, many were angered by the GOP presidential campaign’s suggestion that those who receive federal assistance are “takers” rather than “givers.” What have you learned from that experience? Is this about semantics or something deeper?
In my case, we miscommunicated, and we need to learn from that.
I got that wrong. We need to talk about how we can help people get to where they want to go in life when they are facing obstacles. Our goal should be to help make it possible to get them on their feet and to respect their struggles and challenges.
Have you had a chance to meet with some of the U.S. bishops who spoke out against your economic policies in the past?
I have met with Bishop [Stephen] Blaire and others. Again, some economic issues are a matter of prudential judgment. And I, for one, would argue that high deficits are bad for the poor.
Regarding stewardship: What can individual Catholics do to help bridge the growing divide in our society between the bottom 30% and the top 20%?
Get involved. Take it upon yourself to help people. If you don’t have money, give time or other resources.
One casualty of the war on poverty is the mindset it engendered: This is not my problem; it is government’s problem. We need to reject that notion. The war on poverty is everybody’s problem.
We need to promote an inclusive society where everyone takes responsibility. We need to reintegrate the poor and not marginalize them. I am excited that Pope Francis is talking about this.
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Paul Ryan? REALLY? The same Paul Ryan who came on television and said that he was Pro-Choice? He supports AYN RAND! This man is NOT a real Catholic!
@tom: Summa Theologica Pt. 2.2, Q. 66, Article 8, Reply Obj. 3: “It is no robbery if princes exact from their subjects that which is due to them for the safe-guarding of the common good, even if they use violence in so doing: but if they extort something unduly by means of violence, it is robbery even as burglary is.”
Some commenters on this article this say that one can’t vote for a Tea Party member, or a libertarian, or be a libertarian because that means you agree with all aspects of libertarianism, and with everything anyone who has ever been associated with libertarianism believes. By this logic, everyone who votes for a “Democrat” must be a pro-abortion zealot like “Catholic” Nancy Pelosi, or “social justice” superman Barack Obama! By this logic, everyone who votes for a “Democrat” must ahdere to his dying breath with everything that social justice guru Saul Alinsky wrote, said, and did, including his “Rules for Radicals” which he dedicated to Lucifer.
Remember “common ground”? Libertarians are probably the greatest advocates for religious freedom, and overall human freedom. Not bad things. Is the American Constitution “Libertarian”, “Democrat”, or “Republican”?
Whoever you vote for, and whatever political ideology you support, you can still fulfill your love for God and Man by giving voluntarily, not under state-enforced coercion, of your treasure, time, and talent. Many people who would never vote for a “Democrat” because of their incessant violation of the Catholic “nonnegotiables”, tithe 10% or more of their income to support the Church, and charities that bring justice and mercy to the poor. Many of them do it in the shadows, not trying to force anyone else to prudentially practice social justice the way that they are.
I don’t need the help of “Democrats”, or snarky “Catholics” to tell me how to be charitable and to coerce me into spending more and more of my money on “social justice” projects that are full of corruption, waste, fraud, and abuse. I find that much of Catholic “social justice” policy in the USA has failed the poor, shows great ignorance of economics, and fails to acknowledge the disastrous unintended consequences of their “social justice” absolutism. Social justice is to be practiced prudentially, not absolutely, in contrast to the “nonnegotiables”. Their is more than one way to do social justice, more than one means to the end. Yet we’ve been told for 75 years that there’s just one way, which not surprisingly seems to favor one political party. Washington, DC is the most corrupt place on the planet, and that includes the USCCB, and its legion of lay Democrat “assistants”.
So, enough with criticizing Paul Ryan for finding common ground with Libertarians and the Tea Party. At least he’s not rubber stamping the same old failed Democrat policies in the name of the Church’s teaching on social justice!
Tom in AZ
I dont see were imposted no moral basis for taxation but if ther is what is it?
@tom: You undercut your own point when you demonstrate that you have no idea of the moral basis for taxation. There is one. Various “social safety net” programs could well be an inappropriate use of that money, but rather than argue that you just conflate taxation with theft.
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Are you actually an anarchist, and if so, how do you reconcile that with Catholicism? If not, please, explain your theory of government that does not include any form of taxation.
So refreshing to see a Catholic in politics who is truly Catholic…
So forcing person A to give money to the state at gunpoint or the threat of gunpoint to give to “the poor” is Catholic?
Don’t remember reading that Jesus said to the rich young man “sell all your belonging and give the profits to the Romans”
The only Catholic way to take care of the poor, elderly, infirm, and needy is to do it either directly or through charitable organizations that are voluntarily funded.
If taxes are the true Catholic way of taking care of the less fortunate than I am all set with my tithing since I already have given the government up to 40% or more of my income.
Doesn’t work that way. Every program run by Caesar is made to benefit Caesar. So i render unto him under the threat of prison and expect nothing in return except oppression and corruption.
To the less fortunate I give my time and treasure of my own free will.
When taxes approach zero and people give out of Love then we will have a great country.
@Mike: According to the Fourth Lateran Council, only interest charged on non-productive loans or, on productive loans, in excess of the projected rate of return, is immoral. That is, it is immoral to charge interest on a home-loan (unless the person seeking it obviously intends to resell the home at a profit) or a car-loan (unless it too can be resold at a profit), but not on business loans—although it is immoral to charge more on a business loan than the projected rate of return of the business.
Paul Ryan is trying desperately to spin here. He said he got INTO POLITICS because of Ayn Rand (source: http://www.newrepublic.com/blog/jonathan-chait/80552/paul-ryan-and-ayn-rand). Trying to make it seem that he is actually embracing authentic Catholic teaching on the poor is questionable at best, laughable and devious at worst. Shame on you, NCRegister.
Really a disappointment . . . I believe in free speech, but this smoke and mirrors gibberish printed by The Register is a terrible mistake. Ryan has no heart and reading between the Km’s and actually reading what he says demonstrates one thing: he hasn’t changed and wants people to think he has. For pete’s sake. He even seems to try to infer that the Holy Father would actually agree with him. Nah! Notice too, how he dances around the subject of Ayn Rand. If he rejects her philosophy then he would not pass her books out to all of his staff members as required reading. AND, it is impossible to subscribe to anything she said without actually subscribing to her philosophy.
I a saddened that the Register printed this as faithful, yet politically uninformed and low information readers, could infer from this that the Register actually holds Ryan and his ideas up as Catholocism that they support as a model. Sad. Really sad.
All I would like to add is. isn’t Mr. Ryan the person who stood on a stage during the last Presidential Election cycle and stated that he believed that an un-born child who was concieved during a rape should be allowed to be murdered? Just saying…...
It’s not Catholic to say, I’m in favor of throwing working poor and middle class Americans out of their jobs so we can give those jobs to illegal aliens and guestworkers, and raise taxes on struggling middle class, seniors, and small businesses, cut veteran’s pensions to fund welfare, houseing, free health care and other subsidies for those foreign nationals, so my corporate cronies can get richer… yet that is what unfaithful Catholic Paul Ryan does & wants to do more of. It’s not Catholic for the USCCB, the cardinals and the pope to demand the displacement of struggling poor citizens in the US, by waves of millions of foreign nationals, it reflects an indifference to poverty, and reveals the fact these unfaithful Catholic clergy are only exploiting poverty for an agenda other than ‘faith’. As to the National Catholic Register, they ignore the suffering of the upwards of 92 million long term unemployed American citizens. They aren’t faithful Catholics either.
As a recent Lexus commercial superbly points out the backbone of modern consumer capitalism is the exploitation of the seven deadly sins and the trivialization if not outright annihilation of classical Christian virtues. Everything about the “free-market” economy that Ryan so loves is based on the love on greed and power and is fueled by lust and envy. Until we have a frank acknowledgement that whatever its benefits, capitalism (and probably all human economic activity) is fundamentally flawed we are going to get nowhere. The greatest threat to Christianity is the Religious Rights unholy alliance to the Republican party in the 1980’s (not saying the Democrats are any better). This has aligned the faith into a political paradox where the party of “life” ie. the Republicans support the rights of the unborn but somehow don’t extend that respect for human life and dignity to beyond the womb. In modern conservatism your value as a human being is derived not from being a creation of an all holy God, but by what you can produce and consume as a cog in the wheel of capitalist consumerism. this attitude has eroded our democracy and handed over political power to oligarchs such as the Koch brothers who are a nihilistic threat to everything the Christian faith holds dear. Until Politicians of both stripes stop acting like Democrats and Republicans and start acting like Catholics and Christians this country will continue to go nowhere.
Congressman Ryan is very naive if thinks states will take of the poor.Many will but we all know many will not. If he truly understands our Pope he would support welfare, food stamps, child care free breakfast and lunch programs,head start and health care. Anyone who does not support those less fortunate is not pro life.
I appreciate your running this article. I disagree with Congressman Ryan and do not take him at his word because his budget proposals do not match his new found interest in social justice.
In addition, I am fascinated by this comment “The debate is not settled. I have offered my way of applying Catholic social principles. There are those who won’t see it my way, and that is perfectly fine. The Pope isn’t asking for conformity, but participation.”
Ryan is discussing the principle of subsidiarity and with this comment he is asserting that the meaning of that principle is not settled. I think it is settled and Congressman Ryan is trying to invent a new meaning to justify his shredding the social net and trick Catholics into thinking he is inspired by Francis. He is a politician and this is just another pose he has assumed. He was a Rand devoutee when it was popular and now he’s claimning to be an admirer of Catholic Social thought. His policies show he worships money, please do not be fooled.
Thank you Charles Pickwick for echoing my exact sentiments towards this ‘Catholic’ politician. And since the NCR has chosen to profile this man, it reinforces further the reasons why I recently wrote EWTN to tell them I am no longer contributing any money to them.
If Paul Ryan really seeks to apply Catholic teaching to economic problems, maybe he should listen to St. Thomas Aquinas on money.
Absolutely none of our economic problems will ever be solved unless we return to the unambigious truth of church upheld by the Old Testamnent, New Testament, and the unanimous consent of popes, saints, councils and theologians for the greater part of church history. All intrest on loans without exception is a mortal sin and must be abolished entirely,
The Catholic Middle Ages, demonized by the banker funded anti-catholic media and education system to serve their interests, was a time when people worked 15 weeks a year to feed their large families because they held to this ever important truth of the gospel. Now a days we are drowning in fictitious debt and both husband and wife working around the clock. As long as this is the case, a culture of life is impossibile to build, but you hear no mention of these issues from so called Christian “conservatives”.. If technology has improved, we should be working less. However, this is not the case because the banks take the majority of our money through usury in the form of mortgages, rents and other loans, along with high taxes from the goverment. 40% of all prices are usury passed on by the producer,
A complete repudiation of the fraudkent national debt, issuing of new interest-free money (michaeljournal,org) and a ban on interest on loans is the solution that can make both left and right happy. There would be no need for a big goverment to administer to victims of usury and there would be economic justice for the poor. Unfortuantely, you will never hear soulutions like this proposed by our bought and paid for politicians.
@MLsouth,
I understand your position, but please remember that Ryan’s Bishop is Bishop Robert Morlino. Morlino went out on a limb to defend Ryan a few years ago, only to come out with egg on his face when Ryan defected from the Holy Faith.
Hopefully after what’s been revealed about Obamacare abortions funded by taxpayers, people will take to heart the truth that federal social programs always come with strings attached.
Mr. Ryan’s not “heartless” nor a “bad” Catholic in choosing to be cautious & skeptical about Obamacare. It looks like he was right & the bishops, too optimistic.
Paul is a good man working to the best of his abilities to find solutions to complex problems. The critisism from our Democrat Bihsops is politically motivated and downright shameful. They know nothing about finances and just create more division among Catholics.
Pity the NCRegister did not ask Ryan if he is still “evolving” on the issue of so-called “gay-adoptions.”
Why is the NCRegister giving this heretic a platform?
You mean the murderous anti- clerical French revolution that put atheist thugs in charge of the country and was followed by a series of failed governments and dictatorships, that is what we are “rightly so” heading for as Catholics if we dont raise taxes?
@Philip Boese: The highest income people pay the most in taxes—larger incomes are taxed at a higher rate, which is also (because it’s a rate of the bigger incomes) more actual money. But they are not “the rich”, because the rich don’t have an “income” in that sense. “Highest income” means “highest salaries”, i.e. “most highly-paid employees”—and the richest people are still not employees, but the employers. Also, given that the “poor” in America generally have a higher standard of living than the Sun King…
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Unless you seriously propose to abolish all employment—and there is no realistic way to do that, at best corporate employees become state employees (and compare a Soviet “design bureau” to a Western corporation, if you think that would be an improvement in any way)—then it is in the interest of society as a whole to ensure that the employers have a lot of money to invest, since one of the things that investment goes toward is employing more people. Desire for wealth is not evil—because wealth is a good. That desire only becomes evil when it comes at the expense of other goods, or in preference to better goods.
Congressman Paul Ryan, although Catholic, is on the record as supporting adoption of children by gay couples, favors civil unions, and has raised and given money to at least 2 open and practicing homosexual GOP congressman (De Maio and Tisei? Google their names). On the adoption and homosexual union issues he is in direct contradiction with Church teaching and is objectively, therefore, in mortal sin. By his support for those issues, as a public leader, he also creates and fuels scandal, for the faithful and especially for young people. I pray he will come to his senses and embrace all the teachings of the Church before it is too late.
I used to view Rep. Paul Ryan very negatively due to his supposed support of Pro-militant Atheism, Anti-Humanitarian, self-obsessed Ayn Rand. But now, I see that I was wrong. I appreciate & greatly respect Rep. Paul Ryan as a public leader & as my fellow Catholic Christian brother. He is a leader who is willing to grow & mature in his Catholic faith & understanding (something the ignorant VP Biden seems incapable of doing). I like that he likes to read classical books as well as Lewis, saints, & other cool books.
In Rep. Paul Ryan, here is a fellow I can support in the future (& present).
Mr. Ryan sounds like he’s trying to do right by Americans, but I have my doubts. Does he still consider himself bound by a pledge to Grover Norquist not to raise taxes? It is pretty clear that the very low rates on high incomes and capital gains is greatly exacerbating wealth inequality which is worse now in the US than ever before. Unless these policies are re-thought, we will be marching toward another French Revolution, and rightly so.
Thank you for this interview with Paul Ryan, a man I greatly admire. It is important to note that Catholics recognize that Salvational Love is both personal and relational. Libertarians view man as an end in himself, which is consistent with Marxism, not Catholicism.
The best solution for advancing human progress and freedom, where the principle of solidarity and the principle of subsidiarity, can operate in harmony, is one that begins with respect for God’s intention for Marriage and The Family.
http://www.catholiceducation.org/articles/marriage/mf0002.html
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