Recently, this conversation concerning the HHS mandate between Jon Stewart (Daily Show host) and David Barton made the top search on Google.
It was a terriblly frustrating discussion that never seemed to get to the meat of the real issue. And, David Barton (God bless him for his support) in trying to defend our position (i.e. "the Catholic thing"), ended up giving a platform for Jon Stewart (a very smart guy) to completely miss the point repeatedly...to the applause (and extreme google search interest) of a Comedy Central crowd that apparently doesn't know any better.
Here's the convo (with comments below):
Okay, so...
- First, Christmas trees everywhere does not mean a majority of people believe or stand for these religious freedom issues. In fact, the entire HHS mandate issue is one that attacks a minority of Christians (practicing Catholics who hold to the Church's teaching on contraception). And we're really talking about a minority of that minority of Christians who also happen to run their own business or organization. The tactic is one that goes after a minority within the majority (i.e. divide and conquer).
- Just a side note: Running a hospital (well) is not a "cooperation with intrinsic evil."
- Stewart makes this claim that "entering into the secular world" ("interacting in our world" he later calls it) means we give up some of our personal religious freedom. He implies there is this religious world where you can exercise your personal rights, but once you enter the "secular world," then you no longer have these personal rights. This is a creep tactic in the battle between religious freedom and government kingdom that should be challenged and pushed back upon at every level. It is, in essence, a natural human right to operate a business/trade and to exercise our personal religious principles in the process. Such rights aren't "graced" upon us by the gods of government nor a benevolent majority.
- He also makes a claim that the Catholic Church cooperates more with intrinsic evil by paying people (because they can use that money for evil) than by paying for intrinsic evil directly. This, of course, misses the severely significant moral distinction between what you choose to do and what somebody else chooses to do. Another missed opportunity to point out yet another weak argument.
- Employees should not really be in a subservient position. Employment (when done properly) is a mutual exchange of value/service between an employee and employer. Both sides, when you get down to it, are made up of people who have rights.
The rest of the converstion is more of the same of completely missing the point. It's not about forcing people to eat ham or wear beards or go to the doctor or about hiring protections. I'm astonished at how far off the mark the convo goes. Nobody is trying to force employees to do anything! Which is exactly the fundamental flaw in Stewart's position. His entire argument is built upon the false premise that the Catholic Church is trying to force people to do something. It's exactly the opposite.
There's a really simple point that needs to be made more often and more clearly. Nobody is trying to force an employee to not use contraception. We're just saying that you can't force somebody else to pay for it for them. Simple.
All you have to say is, "Jon, why do you want to force somebody to pay for something that violates their religious principles and their conscience? Why?"
Comments
Post a Comment
It is astonishing that we are repeatedly told that the use of contraceptives is so ubiquitous that the Church might as well cede the point as to continue to fight against it. At the same time, unless the Church knuckles under in this debate, somehow no one will be able to get access to a product that “98%” of them are already using.
I compliment you on your article. You do, indeed, get to the point as so few others have. Though I am not a Catholic, I have always admired the Catholic Church for standing firm for God’s word. I don’t always agree with Catholic teaching, but that is not the point, loving God and obeying His word to the best of one’s understanding is the point. It doesn’t matter that 98% choose to sin, it’s still sin.
And the nonsense about Christians in the secular world is just that - does Stewart forget religious freedom is why so many came to the USA in the first place? No, he chooses not to remember it. It is the next generation that will have no clue about history or that being able to exercise one’s religion in the public square is what the US is about.
They’d have done a lot better sending Archbishop Lori on. He doesn’t get all tongue-tied presenting the HHS mandate issue as an issue of First Amendment rights to freedom of religion as it has always been delineated and this stupid Obama subterfuge of women’s health issues and how they’re paid for. Whenever someone starts answering questions on contraception they just lose the whole conversation of why the mandate is unacceptable.
The media misses the plot when they charge the Church with prohibiting their employees from using contraception. There is a definite distinction between prohibiting the use of and refusing to pay for…
I was infuriated that the Stewart let Barton Lie repeatedly. 5th grader that was punished for praying over his lunch. No, this was a 1994 Gingrich lie about a kid fighting in school, not praying over his lunch. The made up quotes by Barton take away any credibility he might have had. Stewart failed on this interview but because he let this clown go.
HAIL FULL OF GRACE
The HHS Mandate is blatantly unconstitutional and will be struck down by the Courts, if the health reform isn’t already struck down entirely before it gets there.
.
If it does get that far, I look forward to Justice Scalia’s questioning on the subject.
I don’t know what planet Stewart lives on, but on mine there aren’t two different worlds—there isn’t your world and my world. There is just one that we all have to make work somehow. If somebody starts talking rigidly separate yet parallel “worlds” to me, I’m going to explain that while looking at him like the loony he is.
Anyone who isn’t blind can see that atheists run Comedy Central and are producing a generation of atheists with shows like South Park, The Daily Show, etc…blasphemy is common there. The basic thinking is it’s not OK to hold anything sacred, but that God cannot get offended by anything because in their minds He doesn’t exist to be offended.
I’ve always thought clowns are creepy, and here’s another example of the devil lacing his message with humor to win people over to his side.
The article is summarized with the statement “We’re just saying that you can’t force somebody else to pay for it for them. Simple.
All you have to say is ‘Jon, why do you want to force somebody to pay for something that violates their religious principles and their conscience? Why?’”
So by this logic, the Catholic Church should fight (HARD) against the pointless wars the U.S. are currently engaged in, that we are all paying for and clearly go against Catholic doctrine, values etc. So….where is the Church’s outrage on this? Where is the outrage at rules and laws favoring those who have while penalizing those who have not? Jesus was pretty clear how he felt about this.
When Jon Stewert first started out I thought he was rather funny, but as time goes by I find him to be more and more closed minded and misses the mark in the name of comedy. He asserts that when we (Christians) enter the secular world we should give up or ease up on our beliefs in order to get along.
The last time I heard something like that was when I was a young boy in England and my grandfather (who lived through WW I and WW II) was explaining to me why the nazi’s made the Jews wear a yellow star of David on their clothes whenever they(the Jews) went out in public.
Whats next? Will we Christians be forced/allowed to wear a cross or crucifix so that our employers will know who we are? It is people like Mr. Stewart that do not look at the big picture and simply demand that all others conform to their beliefs. Christians in general and the Catholic Church specifically are not trying to force anyone to do anything, they are saying that no one should be forced to go against their religious beliefs, no one.
Too many people do not know the history behind this position. This country was founded by people seeking freedom. Freedom from religious persecution, freedom from tyranny, freedom from taxation, and a long list of other freedoms. That is why the first thing spoken of in our constitution is religious freedom, and the second is the right to bear arms. So that we can protect all of our freedoms from tyranny.
It seems to me that those people speaking the loudest about tolerance are the most intolerant of all.
Jon, If you run a Kosher Deli, it is like the Government FORCING YOU THE EMPLOYER to buy ham for your employee who wants a ham sandwich for lunch.
YOU JUST PROVED OUR POINT.
You screwed up your example by saying this is analogous to the employer forcing the employee to eat ham. IT IS PRECISELY THE OPPOSITE YOU IDIOT.
Too bad the interviewee was too overwhelmed to bust the host on his major malfunction.
When we pay taxes we have no control over how that money is spent except through the political process. I good government makes it possible and easy for taxes to be spent on good things, and a bad government makes it impossible for taxes to be spent on good things.
The Catholic Church does charity in the course of being Catholic; we heal because Christ was a healer. The Roman government thought Christ was a threat to their sovereignty, even though He was a healer. So, to protect their sovereignty, they killed the healer. Rome fell.
We have had 2,000 years of proof set before mankind that the Body of Christ heals and lives forever, and that kingdoms of man don’t heal and are temporal.
The show has its moments, but it certainly retains. A strong political bias. After the homosexual marriage topic took forefront on the show for a few weeks I wrest the coverage was so saturating on the topic, I had to stop watching The Gaily Show.
When will the Catholic bishops return the $3 billion a year they receive from taxpayers to their charities? Will they give up their tax exempt status or keep their views out of partisan politics? Will they come clean on the outrageous child abuse scandal in this country while the Vatican deals with its international scope? Will they discipline a Bishop who had the unmitigated gall to compare the duly elected president of the United States to Adolph Hitler?
Shut up your whining. You have more “religious freedom” in the form of special privileges than the constitution allows or your nstitution deserves. You have six members of the Supreme Court and there is no threat whatsoever to your real religious freedom in place of the special treatment you think you deserve.
David Barton is not a historian. He is a third rate graduate of Oral Roberts University who writes propaganda as history which no serious historian gives the time of day.
Stewart is right in nearly everything he says here and it seems you guys will ally yourselves with anyone these days no matter how stupid or ignorant.
Way to go Michael and David!! You hit the nail right on the proverbial head.
@Michael and Greg,
The Constitution provides for religious freedom. The federal govt, does not have the right to tax or force the church to change it’s doctrines because it does not agree with it. That’s why the churches have tax exempt status and why many are against that mandate; its to protect our freedom of religion.
Post a Comment
By submitting this form, you give The National Catholic Register permission to publish this comment. Comments will be published at our discretion, and may be edited for clarity and length. For best formatting, please limit your response to one paragraph and don't hit "enter" to force line breaks.