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In a dramatic move, the Holy See has mandated the reform of the largest leadership body for women religious in the United States.
The mandate was issued with the approval of Pope Benedict XVI at the conclusion of a doctrinal investigation of the Leadership Conference of Women Religious (LCWR), which was conducted under the auspices of the Vatican’s Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith (CDF).
The LCWR is an association of more than 1,500 leaders of U.S. congregations of women religious. Together they represent more than 80% of the 57,000 women religious in America.
In 2008, the Holy See initiated two simultaneous investigations of the state of women’s religious life in the U.S.
The first was a general survey of nearly 400 institutes conducted by the Congregation for Institutes of Consecrated Life and Societies of Apostolic Life (CICLSAL). Its results have not been announced.
The second was a more focused doctrinal assessment of the LCWR. Details of the doctrinal assessment as well as the mandate for the reform of the organization were made public in an eight-page document issued by the CDF on April 18 and published on the U.S. bishops’ website.
Reasons for the Assessment
According to the document, during an April 2008 meeting in Rome, the CDF prefect, Cardinal William Levada, notified the LCWR presidency of an impending doctrinal assessment. He cited three principal reasons for the investigation.
The first was the content of talks given during the annual assemblies of the LCWR. An example cited was an address by Sinsinawa Dominican Sister Laurie Brink in which she spoke of some religious “moving beyond the Church” or even beyond Jesus.
The second was “policies of corporate dissent” that had been announced in letters issued by “leadership teams” of various congregations associated with the LCWR, some of which included LCWR officers. Topics of dissent included the Church’s teaching regarding the ordination of women and its teaching on homosexuality.
The third was themes of “radical feminism” that were expressed in programs and presentations sponsored by the LCWR.
Some of these included critiques of “patriarchy” that the document said threatened to “distort the way in which Jesus has structured sacramental life in the Church.” Others “even undermine the revealed doctrines of the Holy Trinity, the divinity of Christ and the inspiration of sacred Scripture.”
Conducting the Assessment
In response to these concerns, the CDF appointed Bishop Leonard Blair of Toledo, Ohio, as its delegate to conduct the assessment, which was carried out in 2009 and 2010.
While investigating the CDF’s concerns, Bishop Blair engaged in correspondence with the LCWR and reviewed publications prepared by the group as well as by other related organizations.
These organizations included Network — a social-justice lobby that was founded by nuns — and the Resource Center for Religious Institutes, which provides financial and legal advice to religious orders.
According to the CDF statement, the documentation provided by Bishop Blair showed that “there has been a great deal of work on the part of LCWR promoting issues of social justice in harmony with the Church’s social doctrine,” but “it is silent on the right to life from conception to natural death.”
It also said that “issues of crucial importance to the life of Church and society,” including family life and human sexuality, “are not part of the LCWR agenda in a way that promotes Church teaching.”
The document also cited “occasional public statements by the LCWR that disagree with or challenge positions taken by the bishops.”
Reforming the LCWR
Following the assessment, the CDF concluded that “the current doctrinal and pastoral situation of the LCWR is grave and a matter of serious concern.”
It also concluded that the “Holy See should intervene with the prudent steps necessary to effect a reform of the LCWR” once the Congregation for Institutes of Consecrated Life and Societies of Apostolic Life’s apostolic visitation was finished.
The final report of the visitation was submitted in December, and the CDF has now begun to implement the plans, which had been approved by Pope Benedict in January 2011.
To do this, it appointed Archbishop Peter Sartain of Seattle as its delegate to oversee the reform.
He is to be assisted by Bishop Blair and Bishop Thomas Paprocki of Springfield, Ill., as well as by other individuals and groups, including the Vatican’s department for consecrated and religious life and the U.S. bishops.
The reform of the body, which is expected to take up to five years, is to include several elements:
— a revision of the LCWR’s statutes,
— a review of its plans and programs, including its general assemblies and publications,
— the creation of new programs to develop material that will foster a deeper understanding of the Church’s doctrine,
— a review of the way LCWR members apply liturgical norms and texts, and
— a review of organizations linked to the LCWR.
Initial Reaction
The LCWR made its initial reaction known in a statement published on its website, which said: “The presidency of the Leadership Conference of Women Religious was stunned by the conclusions of the doctrinal assessment of LCWR by the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith.”
It also said, “Because the leadership of LCWR has the custom of meeting annually with the staff of CDF in Rome and because the conference follows canonically approved statutes, we were taken by surprise.”
Finally, it stated: “This is a moment of great import for religious life and the wider Church. We ask your prayers as we meet with the LCWR national board within the coming month to review the mandate and prepare a response.”
A Pastoral Tone
Despite the dramatic nature of the reform, those involved in implementing the mandate took a conciliatory, pastoral tone.
In the statement released on the U.S. bishops’ website, Cardinal Levada stressed that the findings of the doctrinal assessment “are aimed at fostering a patient and collaborative renewal of this conference of major superiors.”
He said that a first step in implementing the findings will be a meeting between the CDF and the LCWR presidency, explaining, “Such a personal encounter allows for the opportunity to review the document together in a spirit of mutual respect and collaboration, hopefully thereby avoiding possible misunderstandings of the document’s intent and scope.”
He also expressed his gratitude “to the officers of the LCWR for their openness and participation in the doctrinal assessment since 2008.”
Archbishop Sartain also took a positive tone, saying in a press release from the bishops’ conference, “In the four dioceses I have served, I have had the privilege of working with many women religious from a large number of congregations. For most of those congregations, the LCWR plays an important role of support, communication and collaboration, a role valued by the sisters and their congregational leadership.”
He also stressed that the ministry of religious sisters in the U.S. “is deeply respected and paramount to the mission of the Church.”
Concerning the renewal he will be overseeing, Archbishop Sartain said, “Just as the LCWR can be a vital resource in many ways for its members, I hope to be of service to them and to the Holy See as we face areas of concern to all.”
Ann Carey, author of the book Sisters in Crisis: The Tragic Unraveling of Women’s Religious Communities, told the Register that she expects the positive tone to continue and that Church officials “will try to be very pastoral about the whole situation.”
She also said she thought that they “will probably give the LCWR some time to process this whole thing.”
Internal Debate, Possible Outcomes
Carey indicated that she expects there will be a vigorous internal discussion within the LCWR regarding its future path.
Although the group began in 1956 as an organization “to facilitate communication between the Vatican and religious,” Carey said, since the 1970s it has moved away from this role to “become more of an independent, professional organization that sets its own agenda.”
The best-case scenario, she said, would be for the LCWR “to recognize that they have moved too far afield” and return to their original mission.
This is not the only possible outcome, however.
Carey said that the organization could announce that it no longer wishes to be canonically recognized and intends to continue as an independent, professional organization of leaders of women’s religious orders and “go about their own agenda.”
Indeed, the same day that the results of the doctrinal assessment were announced, Benedictine Sister Joan Chittister, who served as president of the LCWR in 1976, said in a published report, “Within the canonical framework, there is only one way I can see to deal with this. [This would be] to disband canonically and regroup as an unofficial interest group.”
Carey, however, warned that there would be consequences to such a move. Specifically, she said that the LCWR could lose “up to half of their membership,” because there are many leaders who are members of LCWR out of habit rather than supporting the kind of agenda that has prompted the action of the Holy See.
She suggested that some former members might join the Council of Major Superiors of Women Religious, which was erected by the Vatican in 1992 as an alternative to the LCWR.
Other Organizations
The document issued by the CDF contained references to two organizations affiliated with the LCWR.
The first, Network, recently came to national attention when it broke with the U.S. bishops during the 2010 health-care-reform debate and wrote an open letter to Congress urging passage of the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act (Obamacare).
This letter was signed by the leadership of more than 50 groups of women religious, including LCWR.
The second, the Resource Center for Religious Institutes, has also adopted initiatives that might draw Vatican attention.
Its 2009 national conference featured a workshop titled “Going Non-Canonical,” which described the civil and canonical processes that a group of Benedictine sisters in Madison, Wis., employed to seek release from their vows and to re-found their monastery as an ecumenical center.
This group currently operates as Holy Wisdom Monastery and offers worship services that involve “sharing the Bread of Life around a common table [to] respond to Jesus’ invitation, ‘Do this in memory of me.’”
A statement on the Diocese of Madison’s website warns that these services do not fulfill a Catholic’s Sunday obligation.
Business as Usual?
Two actions taken by LCWR during the period of the doctrinal assessment may be revealing of its attitude toward Church authority.
In 2011, LCWR honored Daughter of Charity Sister Carol Keehan, the CEO of the Catholic Health Association who broke with the U.S. bishops during the bruising legislative battle over the 2010 passage of the Obama administration’s health-care-reform plan.
More recently, she broke with the bishops again, this time in support of the Health and Human Services abortion drug and contraception mandate.
Last week, LCWR announced that Sister Sandra Schneiders, a Servant of the Immaculate Heart of Mary, will be honored with its 2012 Outstanding Leadership Award. Schneiders is a former professor at the Jesuit School of Theology in Berkeley, Calif.
In 2009, Schneiders wrote an email — which later became public — stating that those formally charged with conducting the Vatican’s apostolic visitation of religious orders should be received “politely and kindly, for what they are: uninvited guests who should be received in the parlor, not given the run of the house.”
She also urged: “Non-violent resistance is what finally works, as we’ve found out in so many arenas.”
It is striking that LCWR would choose to honor Sister Carol and Sister Sandra during the period of the doctrinal assessment.
When asked by the Register what these selections might mean, Ann Carey said, “I think that they certainly were asserting their independence and making the statement that it’s business as usual.”
Register columnist and blogger Jimmy Akin is senior apologist at Catholic Answers.
Tim Drake: Register Radio: New Age Influence at the LCWR Assembly
Ann Carey: LCWR assembly Day 3: High Expectations
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Good. It’s high time for some house cleaning.
May Our Lord move the hearts of many of these women to place themselves under the loving direction of the Magisterium and Our Holy Father. Hopefully this will provide the necessary direction to bring a deeper devotion to Our Blessed Mother who should always be the example that we as women should look to.
My hope and prayer is that these women will repent and be converted, however too many of them are so far gone, truly believing they are prophets, as they have declared themselves for years at LCWR annual conferences. Like the Pharisees, they have created their own legal fictions like, “responsible dissent,” to assuage their consciences.
However, I can’t fully blame the sisters. They were encouraged by many bishops and priests over the last 45 years to continue down this path. And rather than disciplined or taken to task, they were elevated to important positions within diocesan offices, hospitals, universities, seminaries and so forth. I find it hard to believe the heads of the LCWR are “shocked” at this news, but perhaps they truly are, after decades of being rewarded for disobedience.
Nonetheless, it will be an interesting showdown. Who will be left standing when this is all said and done?
-Ryan J Hilliard
Thanks be to God.
OKay, I think this is fine. Do whatever is required. But do one thing more; make the Jesuits next, not every one of them just all those that run almost every Jesuit University in America. Most of those guys are secular elitists who are an embarrassment to the priesthood and to our cherished faith.
Finally… this should have happened decades ago. It was a long time coming ! If these heretical “nuns” don’t want to obey the Magisterium then they should stop calling themselves Catholic… and don’t let the door hit you on the way out.
It really boils down to humility doesn’t it? It seems the sisters have an attitude of pride, as of the, “I will not serve” type. They need to get back into their full habbits and dawn the rosaries! What ever happened to the vow of obedience?
I LOVE THIS POPE!!!!!!
This move was long overdue. I hope that the Vatican does not back down. It is time for both men and women religious to decide what they truly believe, and what it means to be a religious community within the Roman Catholic Church. Some will stay and some will depart. To those who go, I suggest that they seriously consider if they have the moral right to take with them property which in many cases was bought and paid for by the generosity of generations of orthodox Catholic believers with whom they may now have very little in common.
@Rob
I agree with you 100%. I have always maintained that the problems lie with certain men’s communities just as much as women’s.
“Vatican continues War on Women” headline in 3…2…1…
In 2005 I felt bad for who ever was going to try and fill the shoes of the Great Pope John Paul II. Benidict XVI is doing an Awesome job and at times I am blown away at how awesome God is for the gift of this leader of ours! He fears no one because he knows who wins in the end. We need to pray for these nuns to convert to the true church established by Christ himself. Remember to add these ladies to your next Rosery.
Wonderful news. I’m tired of these heretics like Ms. Keehan who undermine the church by publicly thumbing their noses at the teachings of the church on critical issues such as abortion and contraception. Membership in the Catholic Church is voluntary for those who subscribe to its teachings. Those who don’t should go elsewhere and stop what amounts to intentional misrepresentation by calling themselves Catholic all the while saying they’re free to accept and reject teachings as they wish i.e the heresy of cafeteria catholicism.
This makes me very sad, and these comments only deepen my sadness. It’s as if the Catholic Church is actively trying to drive away the faithful. No good can come of this only more division in an already fractured church. This only drives a larger wedge between women and the church.
Sad that it came to this. Each of us, every Catholic, should renew our commetment to our Holy Church. There are so many challenges and attacks on our religion that we must regain our former strength and commitment. This is not just a problem of our religious. The idea that we can only follow the rules we like, is further weakening our Church. For the love of Jusus and Mary….we should come together. Our children deserve better from us.
Translation:
The good sisters spend too much time helping the poor, marginalized, and under-insured and not enough time scolding them about how they manage their personal lives. Even worse, they waste time thinking and talking when the church clearly has more than enough holy men to do their thinking and talking for them.
Really, the nerve of these women—using their brains, helping the poor, following their consciences. Such a relief to know that the bishops will be putting a stop to these nefarious activities.
US Catholic Nuns are The BEST & The BRIGHTEST / The Crown Jewels of Our Church….
Mary B O’Connell
Everyone on every side is talking as if the CDF is coming down on the whole of women religious leadership in the US. This is a false representation. The LCWR are simply one “leadership group” that has been wayward for decades. There is also The Council of Major Superiors of Women Religious (CMSWR), which are very much in line with those teachings taught in the Ecumenical Councils and other infallible documents which Catholics cannot dissent against and remain truly in the Fold. The CMSWR represents religious women all over the United States. They represent over 100 communities and the CMSWR goals are stated as:
1-to establish collaboration among major superiors who desire it,
2-to serve as a channel of communication among major superiors,
3-to provide a forum for participation, dialogue, and education on the patrimony of the Church’s teaching on religious life,
4-to promote unity among major superiors, thus testifying to their union with the Magisterium and their love for Christ’s Vicar on earth, and,
5-to coordinate active cooperation with the USCCB.
The only reason that it is “shocking” that the CDF has come down on LCWR is due to so very many years of open dissent not being dealt with. The first people to drop the ball were the local bishops, who refused to reign in dissent from those Catholic teachings which are a part of the Deposit of Faith. If the local bishops were doing their respective jobs, it would have never turned into an issue. After much more time passing without these issues being dealt with, they became deep seated. The CDF should have stepped in quite a bit earlier. So, I would say that the CDF also dropped the ball.
Now, the dissent is rooted deeply in the US Catholic Church. There is plenty of blame to go around, but finger pointing will do no good. It is time for correction. Unfortunately, it was let go for so long that those dissenters FEEL they have a “right” to do and say what they are doing and saying. They do not have a right to do what they are doing, or to say what they are saying. They are abandoning Jesus Christ, and His Bride, the Holy Catholic Church when they do so.
So, let’s pray for these women, and for our Church. There is going to be some ugly backlash due to this development. We are going through some growing pains right now.
What are they doing to our beloved “Body of Christ” This looks like a schism to me. How can these women see themselves as Catholic anymore? If the Church is inspired by the Holy Spirit then who can disagree and remain a faithful Catholic? A house divided shall not stand. That is my humble view of the dissent from these Holy Women. May they respect the actions of the Holy Spirit in our Church.
God is good!
QUOTE: In 2009, Schneiders wrote an email — which later became public — that those formally charged with conducting the Vatican’s apostolic visitation of religious orders should be received “politely and kindly, for what they are: uninvited guests who should be received in the parlor, not given the run of the house.”
She also urged: “Non-violent resistance is what finally works, as we’ve found out in so many arenas.”
Uninvited guests? Wow!! No, you poor deluded creature. These men are representing those who run the Church. To put it in a business model—they are the bosses and you are the workers. You are completely wrong, a complete rebel against authority, and have listened to the hot breathed voice of the evil one whispering in your ear.
It is my hope that your resistence will be the point at which you are ushered out of the Church. We have far too many of your kind of religious who are ruining the Church.
“These women” that you speak of love Jesus and the Church so deeply. They are working to serve the Church through measures of social justice. All manners of social justice are life issues - poverty, preferential option for the vulnerable… without the work of many religious women and the Jesuits, our Church would not be doing what Catholic Social Teaching calls us to! We cannot forget the importance of the vulnerable and suffering and that is what these women are trying to do. They are not preaching that abortion is good and that the Church is a horrible structure. When has it become wrong to be different or to speak out against injustices. The members of the Catholic Church do not have the luxury of being concerned with only one life issue - we need to be concerned with more.
Jesus was radical and he hung out with “radical feminists” in the Bible. You can read about the importance of women in the early Church through the Gospels and Paul’s letters.
I know so many religious sisters who deeply love the Church and are doing nothing that falls outside the realm of following Jesus and the Church. They are deeply saddened and affected by this.
How can the Church focus on reforming these issues and ignore all of the others that are blatantly wrong? What about alcoholism in priests, the sex scandal - that has never been resolved and the decreasing number of Catholics. Vatican II was a council that embraced the cultures and differences of the people and bringing God’s message to them. There was so many important changes and growth that came and we can’t diminish those gifts. The Church is necessary for the world and we have to work with the people and to serve what the people need. That is what the sisters do. Without them, there is no Church.
Some reform may be important, but how the Church does it is really delicate and I am not sure this is the best way. It seems to be hurting many and seems as if we are going back to older dark days of the Church.
Many protestants are already jumping on this to show why the Catholic Church is inferior. We need to not ostracize ourselves further, but really work together to bring about the truth and message of love of Christ. We cannot forget what is truly important.I love the Catholic Church and what it stands for. I am just worried that this is going to cause way more harm then help.
“We haven’t violated any teaching, we have just been raising questions and interpreting politics.”
Ryan, to answer your question: those who wish to align themselves with Christ. It is “fish or cut bait” time for radicals on both ends of the spectrum to either follow the Magisterium of the Church, or form their own “magisterial” group in opposition to the Church.
I am very excited that Holy Mother Church is finally taking a position on this serious matter. I just hope that the Vatican and the US bishops (who have taken very weak actions in the past), maintain a strong position and focus on the true meaning and function of these orders. Many of these religious orders have sincere women who work very hard for the church and God, but these few who are making the Catholic Church a laughing stock to the world, should be either converted back or ex-communicated. As one of the bloggers above said: Many of them are too far gone. We created these monsters, now we have to get rid of them!!
I also agree with one of the bloggers above. All religious orders (Men and Women) need to be looked at and headed up by superiors who are in complete union with Chruch teaching and the Magisterium. Personally, I do not attend any services or retreats, etc, run by Jesuits. I ask all family members not to send their children to any scholls run by Jesiuts. In general, they are just too liberal and out of control in my opinion.
It’s time Catholics to stop the non-sense…..let your bishops know what wrongdoings are going on in their dioceses.
IrishEddieOHara:
What a comment: “They are the boss and you are the workers.” Religious are not workers for the Pope or the bishops! Or, if they are, where’s their paycheck from the Vatican?
I used to be very adamant about how important habits are, until years of seeing the effects of clericalism and spiritual pride among those who think they are the favored of God because of what they profess or what they wear on their heads, necks, etc. Now I’ve learned to admire the sisters who’ve made the choice to dress simply, looking to serve rather than garner attention or special treatment by what they wear.
I am increasingly saddened by all of the hatred and further divide that this is causing.
I also think that the daily readings are really important to keep in mind:
Reading 1, Acts 5:34-42
34 One member of the Sanhedrin, however, a Pharisee called Gamaliel, who was a teacher of the Law respected by the whole people, stood up and asked to have the men taken outside for a time.
35 Then he addressed the Sanhedrin, ‘Men of Israel, be careful how you deal with these people.
36 Some time ago there arose Theudas. He claimed to be someone important, and collected about four hundred followers; but when he was killed, all his followers scattered and that was the end of them.
37 And then there was Judas the Galilean, at the time of the census, who attracted crowds of supporters; but he was killed too, and all his followers dispersed.
38 What I suggest, therefore, is that you leave these men alone and let them go. If this enterprise, this movement of theirs, is of human origin it will break up of its own accord;
39 but if it does in fact come from God you will be unable to destroy them. Take care not to find yourselves fighting against God.’ His advice was accepted;
40 and they had the apostles called in, gave orders for them to be flogged, warned them not to speak in the name of Jesus and released them.
41 And so they left the presence of the Sanhedrin, glad to have had the honour of suffering humiliation for the sake of the name.
42 Everyday they went on ceaselessly teaching and proclaiming the good news of Christ Jesus, both in the temple and in private houses.
It is about time the Vatican cracked down on the sisters of st. goofy.
“An example cited was an address by Sinisawa Dominican Sister Laurie Brink in which she spoke of some religious “moving beyond the Church” or even beyond Jesus.”
“policies of corporate dissent”
“leadership teams”
“Topics of dissent included the Church’s teaching regarding the ordination of women and its teaching on homosexuality.”
“radical feminism”
Others “even undermine the revealed doctrines of the Holy Trinity, the divinity of Christ and the inspiration of sacred Scripture.”
THE SACRED SCRIPTURE:
1Cor.14:33-34 “[33] For God is not a God of confusion but of peace.
As in all the churches of the saints,
[34] the women should keep silence in the churches. For they are not permitted to speak, but should be subordinate, as even the law says.”
1Tim.2:11-14 “[11] Let a woman learn in silence with all submissiveness.
[12] I permit no woman to teach or to have authority over men; she is to keep silent.
[13] For Adam was formed first, then Eve;
[14] and Adam was not deceived, but the woman was deceived and became a transgressor.” *RSVCE
Does anyone see a problem here?
If all nuns were like Mother Angelica and the nuns that thought me years ago in Catholic school in their faithfulness to the Holy Father and the Magisterium of the Catholic Church, there would be no need for reform. I pray the Holy Spirit will guide all those involved. I agree that other organizations that dissent from the Catholic Church’s teachings should be investigated.
Well said, Diane.
What ever happened to OBEDIENCE?? All priest and religious do take a vow of obedience. The turmoil here comes from forgetting this fact.
It’s noteworthy that those commenting negatively about the CDF’s assessment will cite the good works that many nuns do, which is not in question, but will ignore the reason for the CDF’s findings: the leadership’s open dissent from and distortion of Church teaching in favor of certain improper agendas. The Church is right to encourage the many devoted nuns to keep up the good work while reforming the obviously pernicious leadership.
Sam,
So social justice does not include the most defenceless among us, half of whom are unborn women?
These women do not represent all religious. Their average age is 65 and have no new recruits. The orders that are faithful are the ones that are growing. You really think the crisis would exist without a crisis of faith, without priests/nuns making vows and promises and then going out of their way to break them?
And then play the victim card?
The radical liberals have emptied our churches, seminaries, convents etc.
I don’t care about what other people think, since they are not familiar with these issues.
Why don’t you read the things they have been up to, such as Jesus is not God, he did not die for us etc?
Why are these people even Christians?
I am a woman, I like Jesus and want him as my God and don’t mind him being male. I detest contemporary feminism and it’s insanity.
Diane,
Pride exists on both sides of the fence.
SAM:
You are as full of stuffing as a Christmas turkey. You are obviously yet another of the liberal cadre of “Progressive Catholics” who have mixed up disobedience to superiors with our Church’s calling to social justice.
I am beyond tired of the liberals in the Church. If you don’t like what the Church teaches, the morality She stands for, the preaching of the Word of God—
GO!!!!!!!
GET OUT!!!!!!
Go play with the heretical Episcopalians. They have nice vestments and pretty buildings and you can play church with them all you wish.
If, however, you want to be Catholic—- sit down, shut up, and do the works of mercy that our Lord commanded IN OBEDIENCE TO THE TEACHINGS OF THE CHURCH. You are not the pope, you are not even a bishop. Obey or get out!!!!
DIANE:
I was using an analogy from the business world to make a point. Ultimately, the sisters are working for Jesus, but Jesus has put the Holy Father and the bishops in charge over us.
What don’t you get about that???
“We haven’t violated any teaching, we have just been raising questions and interpreting politics.” ???
I beg to differ. My daughter was taught by nuns that homosexuality is fine; nuns should be allowed to be priests; nuns should only have to sign up for a 3 year term—love that one; nuns should be allowed to marry; premarital sex is of course going to happen, so use birth control; Planned Parenthood should do sex education in our Catholic schools; and the crowning jewel—the Eucharist is the sharing of a community, not the body of Christ. No wonder most of the young women didn’t go on to practice their faith and the joke at the school was that the only virgin was the statue of Mary outside. My friends have similar horror stories in local Catholic schools—both those run by priests and those run by nuns. It’s about bloody time something was done to stop the anti-Catholic teaching of our youth, and don’t stop with the nuns!!
Sam
If you love the church as you say you do, then trust that it knows more than you and that they will do their research better than you will! And stay out of the political world and focus on God’s World! Not all of the sisters have gone to the far left but the ones who have… You are the ones that don’t belong or need to repent and come back to the Church, and listen to and trust them through Christ!
While it is high time for (left wing liberal) nuns to be reined in, I take issue with Archbishop Sartain being the one to do it. While I know nothing much about the man, I read last week that he made it an option for pastors in his diocese to have signature collecting drives to place on the State of Washington ballot, a measure that would stop legislation that allows for same sex marriage. Seems their governor (a Catholic) already signed same sex marriage into law. Two large parishes (the cathedral, and a parish run by a woman: who is a pastor) thanked the bishop for suggesting they participate, but they opted OUT. The woman pastor said she prayed about it, and reflected on it, and is not allowing signatures to end same sex marriage to be done at her parish. So much for the archbishop’s authority. I object. Now this man is to oversee a group of left wing liberal nuns? Good luck.
Dear Liberal Friends,
I hope you repent instead. I just wanted people to know what the facts are.
Read the Vatican’s document on the New Age Movement. If you deny that Jesus is THE Christ, you are not a Christian period.
What is the point of gaining the whole world, but losing your soul?
http://www.vatican.va/roman_curia/pontifical_councils/interelg/documents/rc_pc_interelg_doc_20030203_new-age_en.html
Recently the Pope corrected dissident priests and dissident nuns. And in a positive way. Good for him. I am reminded of the C. S. Lewis quote: “There are two kinds of people: those who say to God,“Thy will be done”, and those to whom God says, “All right then, have it your way.”
The problem with the nunnery started back in the early 60’s when the progressives interpreted V-II to allow them more ‘freedom’ to pursue their own identity. My sister who was a postulant in the Sisters of Loretto during that time, was 6-months away from professing her final vows and saw the writing on the wall and got out of the order and the church at the same time, never to return. Its souls like those of my sister who the progressives have on their ledger and will have to answer to God for. I hope that they cease and desist their anti-catholic diatribe and just leave the church. They can start their own, everyone else has who does not agree with church dogma.
I am just astounded by the contrast in the comments on this website from those of the the National Catholic Reporter. You can tell which site is loyal to the Church and which is not just by reading the comments. Over there they are calling for a boycott of giving money to the Church on the day of Peter’s Pence, plus they are saying that many of the Churches are going to be empty because of this. Craziness. I see the conservative based Churches exploding while the liberal ones are dying.
These are the ones who send me invitations to join retreats which honor “the goddess”. Please, Holy Father, excommunicate those who have bought into this. I was horrified by it. As a woman, I refuse to buy into the so-called “feminist agenda” which is set dead against the Magistetrium. They are filled with pride and rebellion and should no longer to considered Catholic. Our president must know that thry do NOT speak for Catholics. Thanks be to God that they are limited by age from influencing Catholics in the coming years.
Jimmy, great post as always. I would also encourage *everyone* to read the very informative article found under Tito Edwards’ “Best of Blogging”. Click the link to “Friday’s Catholic Punditry on the Reformation of U.S. Women Religious”. Doing so will take you to a selection of articles, including the one titled, “William Coulson and the LCWR”. Take the time to read it and view the video toward the end. It is an essential back-story that informs *how* the LCRW came to be in their current sorry state of disrepute. As an adult convert to the Catholic Church, I was exposed early on by “progressives” to the things Dr. Coulson mentions and recognized them immediately. At the time, I did not have the confidence to object, but just somehow knew (probably by the Holy Spirit!) that these things were not compatible with the Church.
Carolyn and Diane,
Not well put, not well put at all! No religious organization in the world respects women more than the Catholic Church! The highest figure in the Church besides The Most Holy Trinity is Mary The Most Blessed Virgin, Mother of God!! The Devil hates women because he knows who who crushes his head in Revelations, it’s Woman, Our Mother! These sisters are supposed to represent Jesus’ Mom, the best part is that most of them do, unfortunately their leaders don’t go under the radar like Mary did for Jesus and the Apostles. Mary insisted that she serve these twelve Men even though they thought they should serve her because she was The Blessed Mother. If you truly want to be a servant of Christ then you can’t love the worldly things of life and you need to get rid of your pride and personal opinions!
I support the Holy See, and male religious orders should be next. I’m 59 and grew up with wonderful women and men religious, but today is slightly different. Politics has infected the old religious orders. The new orders are poised to take their place, and I support that. I have a first cousin who has been a Daughter of Charity for over 40 years, and I find it impossible to believe that she would willingly continue to support her order staying in the LCWR, but she’s not in a leadership role.
These women lack courage and character…if they had either they would leave…but they stay because the Church provides them a roof over their heads, regular meals, and a bully pulpit for their protestations. If they say they are staying to “change” Holy Mother Church, knowing this won’t happen, they are liars. Martin Luther had the conviction and the honesty to leave the Church. These are Protestant (or pagan) Women in nun’s clothing. And the nuns’ silence almost across the board on abortion also speaks volumes. Once I was in a chapel of nuns for their daily Mass and at the offertory intercessions I said a prayer for the preborn and their mothers. You could have heard a pin drop, there was a pause, and then a hard-to-hear “Lord, hear our prayer” from a few of those present. The founders of so many orders that have been co-opted by these dishonest self-centered so-called nuns are turning over in their graves and pleading with God in Heaven to right these wrongs. These sisters are not “working for Jesus” - they are working for themselves.
Dear IrishEddieOhara,
I think Sam has some good points. Catholic teachings about women’s roles in the church are derived from attitudes that existed in ancient Jewish societies, which also allowed for the stoning of adulterers and polygamy. We have rejected these practices. I’m old enough to remember when women were not permitted to touch a host with their hands, and then, when priests came in short supply, nuns were permitted to distribute communion, followed by lay people. (I also recall that some people refused to receive communion from nuns because the very idea offended them.) I suspect when the church is in great enough need, it will ordain women. The church is like a glacier—it moves, but so slowly it’s hard to see it happening.
Don’t let the door hit you on your way out.
1. Someone made a long laundry list about false teachings of nuns. I agree that much of what was listed is very problematic but a three-year consecration sounds like a really good idea. We could get lots of missionaries and workers to commit to three years of service and that would solve a lot of problems.
2. I am going to step into dangerous waters and say that the excessive elevation of Mary, besides being problematic in itself, does little for women living today. In fact, it is an obstacle to the ministry of women in the Church since inevitably if you bring up the role of women, someone will say, “Look, we venerate Mary. We honor women. See there’s nothing to talk about.” Thus, Mary actually becomes a tool to block women.
3. guy mcclung said, “the Church provides them a roof over their heads, regular meals, and a bully pulpit for their protestations.” Are you kidding me?! On what planet?! Who do you mean by the Church? The bishops? They don’t help women religious. All religious orders provide for themselves with support from the laity. If they don’t work or get donations, they don’t eat.
4. Before all of you show me door, there’s no need. I am on my way out of this institution.
Peace in Christ (And I do mean that),
Carolyn Hyppolite
Motherboard,
The church cannot ordain women, anymore than she can create a new sun in the sky. The same goes with changing the form and matter of other sacraments.
The reasons are theological and not based on culture. A priest offers sacrifice. A Christian priest offers the sacrifice of Christ. The Holy Sacrifice of the Mass is the re-presentation of the sacrifice of Christ on the Cross.
Judaism no longer has priests, and Protestants do not have a Mass.
Know your theology.
A lot of these nuns do not even believe in the Eucharist, why they are even Catholic?
Why live a lie, while pretending to be Catholic?
lay Catholics have an excuse, these women do not.
If people in the clergy or laity do not understand the foundation and doctrines of the church, they should ask. If they insist on pushing for their liberal and relativism, they should leave and form their own church. Otherwise, be obedient, and do not undermine the church by representing the church as being a catholic priest or nun and yet indoctrinate people with a socialist or liberal teaching. That’s treachery. Reminds me of people in the Catholic Charismatic Movements. There are people, and they are even at the leadership, which contradicts or even public refutes catholic teachings. And yet they recite the apostles creed or nicaean creed in the mass, even as they publicly reject or averse at defending the catholic tenets. Bishops of every diocese should reign on these organizations as they are the one’s causing catholics to be lost or separate from the true church indoctrinating cradle or nominal catholics of the fundamentalists or evangelical doctrines. These charismatic organizations even discriminate those well informed catholics who defends the faith in their teach-ins and so called prayer meetings. I know for a fact, because i had been involved in a charismatic movement of the CFC here in vancouver area. The stupidity is astounding as the elders even discourage people from theologically pursuing an understanding of the catholic faith. And yet the tolerate such public teaching from the lecturers exhorting people to view the televangelist JOYCE MEIER. When will kind of treachery inside the church stop? When will the leadership of the diocese come to the picture and install the true teachings of the catholic church?
Women’s ordinations are not the only issue. These people are so far off the theological scale that they need a back to basics course. You cannot move from point A to point B, without understanding point A. It’s no wonder so many people left the church. When you teach them something other than Catholicism, why should they stay.
Carolyn Hyppolite,
I would recommend you study sacramental theology. I spent years studying this before I came back to the church. I find it very strange that people will worship the mother and fight for women priests earth, but will not honour Jesus’ mother.
The church cannot change the incarnation or atonement of the son of God regardless of who this offends. Jesus is either our saviour or he is not.
We all know what this is really about. It is about the Vatican putting women in what they perceive their proper place which is as male dominated and subservient to the all male hierarchy. I think it was evident in the statement that they (the women religious conference) has placed too much emphisis on ” poverty and economic inequality”.What would Jesus do? it sounds like they are doing just that as Jesus also focused his ministry on those on the fringes. These courageous women will simply “work around”
this mandate and continue to do the wonderful work that they have been doing for centuries.
I will also add that even though I understand the anger on both sides. I do think it’s important to explain things charitably, rather than say things like “don’t let the door hit you on the way out” or “get out”.
This is NOT the way Jesus treated even prostitutes and tax collectors. We need to pray that this will bring peace and reform to the communities and conversion to the individuals that need it.
To Helen Welter
It saddens me that you are so angry with the church. I hope that you will open yourself to seeking and learning the Truths of the Faith and God’s Love for all people - especially for women through the church. This is NOT about male domination or being subservient to the hierarchy. It is about following the plan that GOD put into place and the acceptance of who we are as men and women and how God created us to be. God is unchanging, He has a beautiful plan for each of us as male and female. Unfortunately the cultures and societies of the world have distorted His plan beyond recognition, and yet tell you that this would be better than God’s plan. Our sinfulness has brought about these distortions. The priests and religious sisters that are following the teachings of the church are the ones that are flourishing. They have the Truth. If you look at the convents and communities that are struggling with the large number of women seeking to join them you will find places that are following the Truths of the church and these women are basking in the Love of our Lord - with a deep devotion to our Blessed Mother.
May God be with you Helen and may you find His Peace and Love in your life and Faith
Helen,
Have you even read the document?
Carolyn,
I’m the one who posted about the things my kids have been taught by nuns. I can certainly see your point about the 3 year sign up. It would be wonderful if we had some sort of service program that lay people (men and women) could sign up for a few years to serve, like the Mormons do. The reason her assertion bothered me, though, is that it’s about WHO the women are who become nuns, not WHAT they do, and that is a big distinction. Nuns commit to serving God’s people; that’s what they do, but their total lifetime commitment as brides of Christ is WHO they are. As such, they reflect the Church with their lives. It is a different level of commitment and service than a volunteer who serves a few years. I felt that her lack of commitment was reflected in her lack of willingness to even teach the truth about what the Church believes.
I am very sorry to hear that you are leaving the Church. I agree with savvy that we should have charity when discussing differences, and I apologize that my tone was a bit angry. I was in school just post Vatican II and I saw the damage that dissenting nuns did to myself and my classmates. Then I saw it again when my own children were in school. A lot of anger is generated when you entrust your children to those who should be worthy of that trust, and they instead turn them away from the Church. That is why I am angry, and I would imagine that fuels the anger seen in other comments. I, too, would rather that dissenting nuns (and priests) leave the Church, rather than sabotage it from within, but I even more hope and pray that they will learn and teach the truth and beauty of the Catholic faith.
I believe that you are sincere in wishing God’s peace on the commentators, and I hope the same for you. Have you read John Paul’s encyclicals and homilies? I think you would find them helpful in your journey.
I agree with the writer who said that these nuns have been too busy helping the poor, homeless, those in need of education and healthcare to be bothered by the “men in authority” who have spent their time writing those wonderful reports chastising the nuns who do the work of Christ. It is the wonderful Franciscan sisters who taught me to care for the less fortunate. They worked on Indian Reservations during the summer. They worked in soup kitchens and homeless shelters. I admired them greatly - more than the bishops we saw once a year who showed up to tell us what the rules were. These women lived the gospel message completely. Maybe the hierarchy ought to try to follow the nuns example.
This is LONG, LONG, LONG OVERDUE. They all need to be kicked out of the church ASAP.
We especially need to remember to pray for those elderly sisters who have remained faithful to the Lord and to their vows for years despite being in dying congregations with very heretical “leadership”. These faithful older sisters, now in their 80’s and 90’s, have no real power to challenge the status quo. They feel trapped. I have a friend who is in what was once a thriving convent of over 300 sisters. Now there are fewer than 100, almost all of them over 80 years old. They haven’t had a new vocation in many years. The leadership of their order has sold the property to a nursing home, so it is no longer a convent, but a nursing home which has some sisters as patients. My friend says that it is like being in a bad marriage. She is heroically offering up her suffering for the good of the Church.
Ideally, the idea of having nuns in the Church is good; after all, the nuns have produced great saints in the past. With time, however, it appears the nuns are becoming TRADE UNION organisations in the Catholic Church, implying that they have lost their bearings and have lost equally their role in the Church, that is, to support the Church in its functions. However, the nuns are not supposed to be preachers, prophets or pastors-these were NOT the reason for the establishment of nuns. It is not my job to criticise anybody’s lifestyle but for the benefit of making a point here and without mentioning any names, some of the nuns I have happened to meet in Belgium were no better than any secular woman. You find them quarrelling, bickering and have not been of any good example to the non-religious. The present Organisation should be banned. Period! Its members are free to found whatever church they like, but definitely NOT the Catholic Church. The gates of Hell SHALL never prevail against the Catholic Church. Period!
The good sisters of the LCWR focus their work on the weakest among us. They fight the scourges of poverty, racism, violence and oppression. That sounds like the true work of the Jesus I know. Jesus did not live in a gaudy palace wearing ridiculous expensive outfits and issuing obey or leave proclamations. He did just the opposite. He lived in the streets doing what these sisters are doing. Putting into action God’s words. That action is their ministry, not giving voice to the bigotry, misogyny and control of the hierarchy.
Those of you who are arrogant enough to criticise the work of these fine sisters in this comment section are just background noise to those of us who appreciate the sacrifice they make to care for the weakest of God’s children. NONE of you sheeple are out there on the streets making a difference in so many peoples lives as these women do.
Those posting here suggesting that these “heretical, free thinking” religious women need to leave the church since they are not real Catholics are the same “real Catholic” sheeple who who cast a blind eye to the monumental global failure of the vatican and bishops to stop the pedophilia and decades long abuses of our children by the ordained clergy. You want to deal with a REAL crisis of global proportions in the church, demand accountability and REAL change from the old celibate boys on this issue. I know that will not happen.
IrishEddieOhara (twit) said in his post earlier-
“If, however, you want to be Catholic—- sit down, shut up, and do the works of mercy that our Lord commanded IN OBEDIENCE TO THE TEACHINGS OF THE CHURCH. You are not the pope, you are not even a bishop. Obey or get out!!!!”
Sit down, shut up and obey HUH? Or leave HUH? OK! DONE!
I left emotionally years ago and physically a couple of years ago. Most of my family and friends (who, like me attended Catholic elementary, high school and universities) and their families have left also. If the sisters of the LCWR leave, it will be another blow to an increasingly irrelevant church. I now look with pity on my former church and pray for it. It needs all the prayer it can get because it is failing to speak for God.
Read more: http://www.ncregister.com/daily-news/holy-see-mandates-reform-of-u.s.-women-religious-conference#ixzz1slf77VdJ
Thank you for this presenting this story.
Unfortunately, the BBC chose to report this story in a obviously biased manner. This is evident from the reporter’s choice of words in both the text and the video of the story. That Sister Simone Campbell’s views don’t agree with the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith’s findings isn’t a surprise. However, Jane Little’s inclusion of the term inquisition, not giving an official representative of the Church a chance to respond, and other aspects of her reporting make it quite obvious she holds an arrogant and negative attitude towards the Catholic Church. Given her education and background, I would have hoped she might have made more of an attempt at being objective. Those who disagree with the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith’s findings should make certain they are familiar with the dogma and authority structure of the Church.
This is the link to the BBC’s report.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-17794961
The Vatican has made a dreadful PR error with this one. At a time when the clergy abuse scandal continues to rage around the globe, they attack the American sisters. People everywhere are defending the sisters, and marveling at the insensitivity of the Bishops. I hope the nuns stand their ground. There will never be Vatican reform unless the rank and file demand it. And right now the rank and file are furiously defending the nuns. And that is a good sign.
“If the sisters of the LCWR leave, it will be another blow to an increasingly irrelevant church.”
Bob, you are forgetting the Council of Major Religious Superiors who are growing. The average age of the LCWR is 65 and they have no new recruits.
Mary Mclean,
I do agree that nuns have done so much good in the past, but there is no point in bringing up Jesus, if they no longer believe in him and want to move beyond him.
@Bob Whitmore, please try to remain focused and address the issue at hand. Don’t bring in other issues that will derail the real intent of the discussion and thus create a cacophony. No matter the good works these nuns are doing, such do not overarch the litany of rebellions attached to these nuns. Don’t forget that non-religious people are also philanthropists also. Address that issue and when the time to discuss other issues comes we shall definitely give you a lending hand. If these rebels leave the Church, my dear Bob, the Heavens would not fall AT ALL. Better the Catholic Church remained the True Catholic Church than having confusionists and trade union officials infiltrating the Church with devilish ideas. Let them leave, please. The Gates of Hell shall never prevail against the Church founded by Jesus Christ Himself. This is not the first time people like this had attacked the Church but the question is where these people are now. Ask yourself that. The Catholic Church is NOT a place for rabble-rousers. If you don’t like the Church, then leave. Period!
Anne Rice,
This group does not represent all American sisters. As for reform Ann, the 60s crowd is part of the problem not the solution. A generation is missing thanks to bad teaching. This began before the abuse scandals were discovered.
This is part of the reform and house cleaning. It’s begun with priests too.
Bob
your problem is that you actually think that the Catholic Church is just another denomination! You and your family are a bunch of suckers, to fall for all the worldly things of life! The teachings of the Catholic Church is the only authority in the whole world because they are the teaching of Jesus Christ. The teachings are guided by the Holy Spirit and no one can change anything that It teaches, not even the dying bread of liberal nuns! If you want to see how a good nun act check out the sisters of St Claire, now they truly are brides of Christ!
Ann
The Catholic Church doesn’t go on the side of majority it goes on the side of truth because it is truth!! The Vatican doesn’t need reformed and it never will, but you on the other hand, do need reformed.
As the author of a study on Radical Feminism (The Gender Agenda) it has long saddened me to see religious follow this path, but one thing I learned in studying radical feminists was that those caught up by this false ideology all had cause for rebelling against men—real hurts, sad histories, lack of respect. The answer, however, is not rebellion, but forgiveness. If they aspire to follow Christ, they must first forgive everyone who has injured them in any way—particularly fathers, brothers, priests, and bishops. That is the only path to true liberation. Until they do they are trapped in their sin, “For if you do not forgive your brother, neither will your father in heaven forgive you.” They need our prayers.
My sources do tell me that this could be an inside job, since not all sisters share these views. They are finally fed up of the noisy faction of their leadership, who claim to speak for everybody.
I would be cautious about broadbrushing and speculation, which I have also been guilty off, until we have more details on this issue.
Chi-What are the specific “litany of rebellions” your are referring to? The only thing I have read in all the recent articles has been the Sisters lack of “adequate” trumpeting of the church’s position on abortion and gay marriage. It is not required that they have to agree with non-doctrinal issues the church may get involved in like health care.
Of course some of them feel that ordination should be an option for women. So do I. What else am I missing here?
Dale O’Leary-You speak of radical feminism. What concrete examples do you have specific to the Sisters that would be indicative of radical feminism that has led to the adoption of what false ideology?
Barry Tippmann-You know nothing about me so save the “suckers and ...falling for worldly things comments”. You sound like another blind faith apologist. And that “Brides of Christ” comment. Give me a break Jethro.
Mary McClean-Do you really think the Sisters no longer believe in Jesus and wish to move past him? Have they said that?
I think the ability to have this comment section is good because it fosters thoughtful comments and discussion. Understanding does not come from believe, obey or leave. That attitude died in the middle ages for most of us. Did you ever wonder why there is no letter to the editor or what you think column in the diocesan papers?
I’m glad the Vatican is doing something that may be considered by some as “Bad PR”. It’s good for bishops to show they have courage. Nuns like these that do not hold true to Orthodox teachings on Life and Marriage between one man and one woman, need to be either reined in, or OUSTED. I don’t care how old they are, they ought not be teaching or influencing others.
Further, women are NOT to be ordained as priests - if Catholic women want to be “priests”, they have a venue for it: the left wing (apostate) Episcopal, Methodist, Anglican, Presbyterian churches.
The bishops are correct in saying they do not have the authority to ordain women to the priesthood. However, our bishops and the Vatican would be wise to rethink their requirement for male clergy to be celibate. Especially with the conservative Anglican priests and bishops joining Rome, and bringing with them their lovely wives and children.
One thing that has always bothered me is that it’s fine for a priest to adopt a child (or children, even infants) with the thumbs up of his bishop, but having a wife is considered too much of a burden on a man. A wife is too time consuming. Ouch. Now that smarts.
Bob,
I think you were responding to me. Please read the entire CDF document. I do agree that non-doctrinal issues are minor when, you reject the divinity of Christ, or the atonement.
You might also want to read this.
http://www.patheos.com/blogs/godandthemachine/2012/04/exhibit-a-for-explaining-the-lcwr-report/
This has something to do with feminist ideas. A sacrament is a sign that points to something else. Priest points to God, Priestess would point to Goddess. This is why every religion with a sacrificial priesthood only had male priests.
You need to study sacramental theology, to begin to understand these things.
how refreshing to see here a few comments in support of the sisters and against the Vatican action. I certainly can guess, if I had to, that the Lord Jesus Christ delights in these many faithful women who actually DO what he commands, instead of the “royal” pope and princes who have disobeyed so grievously, including aiding and abetting the sexual abuse of children. I could never support the Vatcian action whatsoever; I am against it in principle and in fact, for it is a putrid action of gross hypocrisy and an attempt to gain control over what is not controllable—-the work of the Holy Spirit among believers who are committed to the truth, wherever it may lead.
Janet,
I am sorry, but your post is unthinking nonsense.
What wonders 50 years of poor catechesis can produce.
I wonder what Janet is talking about. My dear Janet, if you don’t love what is happening in the Church you are free to leave. You have expressed your right of free speech but you could also express your right of freedom of association by leaving the Church; after all, you are not under ANY obligation to remain a Catholic. You cannot continue to profess Catholicism and at the same time pouring insults on the Church. Make your choice. The Catholic Church is not a political party or a trade union organization as you should/must know.
So Janet, in your opinion, what is Jesus commanding the nuns to do? Will you please be specific? You call the Vatican action “an attempt to gain control over what is not controllable—-the work of the Holy Spirit among believers who are committed to the truth, wherever it may lead.”
So I interpret what you wrote as the Vatican versus the Holy Spirit. How can we KNOW a person or a group HAS the Holy Spirit, and they’re not being led by, well… some *other* ‘spirit’?
This is really, really important, because many people CLAIM to be led by the Holy Spirit, such as many New Age nuns, and God does not contradict Himself. It should be easy for a Bible-literate Christian to discern the difference.
Seems like many nuns have lost their good habits.
I posted this on another blog, about some of the speakers at this lyearsw LCWR conference showing some of their New Age ideas, and I think it is a major problem with this group.
On the Vatican response to LCWR is this article showing some of their crazy new age directions.
http://www.lifesitenews.com/news/media-and-nuns-colluding-in-deception-says-expert-vaticans-reform-no-david
And their conference this year
https://lcwr.org/assembly
showing the new age tendencies of their group.
And as you will note this one is in St Louis this Year.
And this is some info on their lead speaker Barbara max Hubbard.
http://www.barbaramarxhubbard.com/site/
After reading this I felt the need to stop at the chapel for Eucharistic adoration. And I recently reread St Paul in 1 Corinthians ch 1 and 2 where he stated his desire to only preach Jesus Christ and Him Crucified. And it so often seems that the great saints and doctors of our church are satisfied with Jesus and Him Crucified.
God Bless Bob.
I find the comments listed here generalized, extreme, uncharitable, unchristian, distasteful, and equal to casting stones at women who have given their lives to God. You cast all nuns whose communities belong to LCWR in the same light. For the most part these are the women who were treated like slave labor by the priests without equal compensation. These were the women who built the schools and hospitals and social service programs and who still took time daily for personal and communal prayer. These are the women who take serious the beatitudes of Jesus. These are women who for the most part live very simply compared to the priests and bishops on up or the Pope in his ruby red shoes and ermine collars. Where were your comments during the coverup of sexual abuse from the priests and bishops that still goes on today? Oh you who cast the first stone, what splinter do you have in your own eye, are you perfect? Be careful that your judgmental words don’t end up condemning yourself.
Shame on NCR for the slanted article. Is it to sensationalize the news in order to pick up subscribers or stir a pot of enmity like secular papers? Where is your Christian perspective?
My hope and prayer is that the Sisters will stay their course! The men of the Church have ruled all for far to long. The God I worship does not tolerate the behavior of the Church today. My God is forgiving, doesn’t engage in politics, nor does He bother himself with people’s personal decisions about contraception. It’s time for the Church to grow up. I believe God loves all his children, and will actually look harsher upon those who are “small minded.” I am really tired of hearing my Church to preach about “being open to life” but I never hear in a homily about people being responsible for the very lives they should be open to receiving into the world. Sisters, keep up your crusade. You are what Christianity is all about! I am very disappointed in the Pope and the Church Fathers. The rest of what they preach and teach is just a bunch of politics!
These nuns have forgotten two things: HUMILITY AND THE OBEDIENCE THAT GOES WITH IT. I will not wonder if their convents or houses are becoming empty as the years go by. The younger generation of postulants are looking for religious life that is more spiritually intense and deeper than these nuns who have pre-occupied themselves with worldly concerns. What is there in women ordinations that they want? other than pride and the false feminist struggle with the males.
@Alaskan Catholic Grandmother,
Even though you call yourself a Catholic, your writing here just reveals your identity: 1. You are not a Catholic; OR 2. You are only a nominal Catholic that has remained so all your life. Subsequently, you have come here to make jokes and reduce to triviality the overly important issue being discussed here. What we are saying here is NOT a play thing, please. Be serious and don’t come here to muddy the waters.
Alaskan Catholic Grandmother:
Excuse me, but this is NOT YOUR CHURCH!!! The Church belongs to a MAN (that alone ought to stick in yer craw!)—Jesus the Christ. It is HIS CHURCH—NOT YOURS!!
Go! Just get out! Go play with the Episcopalians and while you are leaving, take these rebellious nuns with you!
@Alaskan Catholic Grandmother - You showed your hand when you represent Our Lord and Savior, and the Creator of the Universe as this: “My God is forgiving, doesn’t engage in politics, nor does He bother himself with people’s personal decisions about contraception.”
It is written in Scripture that “My ways are not your ways, says the Lord.” So what you wrote above, about God, is really about you. It’s what Alaskan Catholic Grandmother would be like, if she were God.
So Earth to Alaskan Catholic Grandmother: you are not God.
To find out what God is really like, read from Genesis to Revelation. It takes about 4 months to read it, comfortably.
But for the past 90 hours, on the US capital steps, there has been a 24/7 reading of the entire Bible going on, the 23rd Annual Bible Reading Marathon, from what I heard reported by Anna Mitchell on the Sunrise Morning Show news yesterday. They have no microphones, and even passersby can read verses, if they want to. It began last Thursday, I think, and ends today, with the whole Bible having been read aloud, in 90 hours.
You should consider reading the Bible too, so you can know what God’s personality is like, and speak with authority to your grandchildren. Without doing that, what you’re giving them is your OPINION, not based on fact.
Even non-Catholic members of the Christian universal church (not mainline Protestant denominations that have gone as “apostate” as so many Catholic nuns have) would disagree with you.
@ Mary Compasio, the topic of this discussion is not the type of jobs the nuns have been doing; after all, the jobs you mentioned are what they had professed to do as members of their various Orders of Nun. Accordingly, they were not under any compulsion to do those duties you have inadvertently itemised. The topic for discussion is the nuns’ plethora of misguided and recalcitrant acts against the Catholic Church and her constituted authorities. You don’t defend a case by citing someone else’s misdeeds. When those misdeeds come up to this forum we shall discuss them. What should bother you is the topic under discussion. As a Catholic, do you like what these misguided nuns are doing or not? Make your points there. Nobody is judging anybody here but we should know what is good and what is bad and comment on them as they come up.
It is nice to see people writing in favor of the sisters. For the person who said the priests and the Vatican are these sisters bosses, you are wrong. You are doctrinally wrong and biblically wrong. The sisters of the Roman Catholic Church answer to God, not mere men. And God and His Son Jesus left very explicit instructions. Feed and serve the poor, the marginalized, the forgotten. Sisters do that for next to nothing. Priests and our Pope on the other hand, they are more worried politics and covering up the abuse of children. Where is all this outrage towards the priests who have abused and raped children? Instead they go after the only people in the Church who take vows who do the work of Christ. But it is a good distraction. No one is even talking about the people who are truly disobeying Christ.
It’s about time!!!! Now he needs to mandate Reform for the dioceses of the US & Bishops that have fallen away from the Magisterium. Actually any country that has fallen away, though the US leads the way!!!!
I’ve scanned through all the comments on this page. I don’t know much of anything about this controversy, but I do know that the nuns I’ve encountered are good, Jesus-loving, devout people.
As for these comments above, you are the meanest, nastiest-talking bunch of people I can imagine. If you aren’t calling the nuns names, you’re calling one another names. You don’t sound like nice people, much less Christians.
Well, all of us are sinners. The behavior of some of these nuns (and not all) is not correct. Supporting birth control, holding their supper of the Lord, going beyond the Church, etc., are things that the Church has to stand against. But it doesn’t sound like anyone is asking them to stop working with the poor, helping the sick, teaching, and everything else that these women devote their lives to. These are wonderful things that so many saints dedicated their lives to, both men and women, religious and not. But they are religious women. Unlike myself and other lay people, they have chosen to enter into a deeper and beautiful relationship with Jesus—they’ve taken the veil. They’re married to Christ. They are leaders in the Church by nature of their choice. All the Church is asking is that they center themselves around those things which the Church teaches. It’s not sexist—they ask that of everyone, priests, Bishops, and lay clergy members, too. It’s something we’re all responsible for, and to be Catholic is to follow these teachings and to be light for the world.
I’m very sad for the potential loss of religious women. And as Catholics, we should pray for them, that God will work in their hearts and minds, and in ours too. After all, nothing we can do will get us salvation, God has secured it for us. We are a Church filled with sinners, and we shouldn’t cast stones.
As of this date, the American Catholic world has gotten behind the nuns, and showed support for them everywhere. Major newspapers have run editorials in support of the nuns. There have been public demonstrations of support for them. And the nuns themselves have spoken out eloquently challenging the Vatican’s dismissal of them and its condemnation of them. They are planning a meeting with Cardinal Levada in Rome. This is excellent news. ——- And by the way this organization which was criticized by the Vatican does indeed represent the majority of the nuns in this country; only a small number belong to a rival organization. May the nuns somehow lead the way for reform of the corrupt hierarchy of the Catholic Church. It is doubtful that the corrupt hierarchy will ever be reformed if the rank and file don’t demand reform.
People deliberately feeding this insidious flame of destruction orchestrated by these nuns are unconsciously pouring live coals on themselves. No matter what any good anybody thinks these nuns are doing, such thoughts are just a deflection of the real issue. One should not arrogate to oneself the thinking of indispensability. Whatever good the nuns had done for the Church, as they claimed, the nuns should equally remember that there are thousands out there who do even more and such people have no affiliations to any religious cause or upbringing; just the sense of altruism and the love of humankind are the driving force. Finally, there is no way the nuns could wage a war against the Church and come out unscathed. It is impossible to kick against the goad. People before them had tried and had failed woefully with regrets and ruefulness. The highest sin one could commit is that of disobedience; disobedience to the Authority that established the Catholic Church. Jesus Christ, the Omniscient, knew and had foreknown and had foreseen what would happen till the end of the world. Yet, He gave these members of the Church Hierarchy and their successors the power to be His visible representative on this earth. Whatever anybody may think he/she knows, whatever the nuns may think they know, their knowledge is foolishness before God. The least these nuns should do is to leave the Catholic Church, as their predecessor comrades-in-arms had done. Again, you cannot succeed in kicking against the goad. The Church belongs to Jesus Christ; so please leave Her alone. Leave every judgment to Jesus Christ to Whom the power to judge the living and dead is bequeathed. Those people accusing the Church hierarchy of one evil or another are not themselves clean. I challenge anybody here to write on this forum that he/she has NEVER committed any sin! Please take care of the beam in your own eye before attempting to do the same to your neighbour.
@Anne Rice—specifically what “reforms” do you mean? I think it important to define terms. While you are correct there is corruption among *some* members of the hierarchy (evidenced by news in Philadelphia and to an extent, even VatiLeaks), basic doctrines seem to be correct.
But it scares me, when I hear calls for “reform” in the Roman Catholic Church, and said reforms are not spelled out. I am a convert, having been raised Evangelical Protestant.
Should you get this question and you respond with a list, please indicate by what authority you call for said changes: Scripture, universal tradition, or ... just because it sounds like a good idea to someone! I’ve seen them all. That’s why I ask! Thank you.
To the recent post from Anne Rice regarding reform. Please will you define what you mean by the word “reform”? I ask as a Catholic convert. While there are obvious reforms needed among those that have been standard operating procedure in the Catholic hierarchy, I shudder to think of potential doctrinal reforms, after having left the mainstream Protestant denominations myself. So it will be helpful to know exactly what you mean by reform, and from where comes the authority to make said reforms: Scripture, universal Church Tradition? It scares me to see calls for reform, without spelling out exactly what it means, and why. Thank you.
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