We need more authentic Catholics online. What I mean is - we need more people just being Catholic and living an authentically Catholic life…and then that being reflected online. (All of this applies to offline as well, really.)
And by authentic I certainly don’t mean perfect. In fact, I mean the opposite. The last thing we need are Catholics pretending to be something we’re not: perfect. Authentic means being humble and honest about our flaws and our need for the Church and the Eucharist (Jesus). People hunger for that kind of authenticity. And the Holy Spirit works powerfully within it.
And by Catholic I don’t mean pictures of Catholic stuff. And I don’t mean more scripture verses and quotes from saints. I don’t mean more Catholic websites or newspapers. More of those would be good, too. But not in lieu of Catholics themselves.
The social web is about relationships. We can’t have real relationships with pictures or words or websites. We can’t have a relationship with an organization or our parish - really. We have relationships with people. We have relationships with the people IN those organizations. Those pictures and quotes are things that feed relationships - but they are not relationships in themselves. And the places we go online are just that - places. Places for relationships to be born and nurtured.
But we have to be present there. People must be present there. Not just our stuff or the relics of our Church, but the Church Herself - the Body.
We get too caught up sometimes on the technology or the novelty. We try to force some quantitative distinction between online relationships and “real world” relationships (as if what is “real” consists only of what we can touch). We try to treat the online world as something totally “other.” Sure, there are some new considerations and important discussions to be had regarding our use of it all. But when it comes down to it it’s just not that complex.
Just be yourself. We need more Catholics to just be their authentic selves online. To meet people. To share with people. To learn and grow with our neighbors. To share our sufferings and blessings, our ups and downs. That is the best kind of preaching we can do.
Not to just share pictures. Or scripture verses. Or apologetics. Or prayers. Share yourself. Those other things will flow naturally from you if they are an authentic part of yourself. And if those other things are all you consist of, then you’re shallow and boring. But I know that doesn’t apply to you. It doesn’t apply to anyone. Shallow and boring is just what some of us appear to turn into when we pretend to be someone we’re not.
We don’t just need more pictures and polemics. And we definitely don’t need more posers. We need you.
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If I may make a shameless plug: laurasslowgrowth.blogspot.com
I want to be that authentic catholic with a real and personal presence. What do you propose? How do we really connect with people apart from just this virtual self? I mean I have a blog and try to be as personable as possible. IT is more important to me, that I connect with people, rather than words and pics etc.
Maybe I am lost, are you suggesting that we develop some real dialogue? How and or where do we start? These are honest comments.
http://ceezpaul.wordpress.com
By the way, I am willing to connect with great and authentic Catholics right about now because I am at a personal challenging time in my life too.
Ummm… I’ll friend you on Facebook, Matthew. It’s fun BEING Catholic on my page. Most of my friends don’t mention God at all, many are Catholic, quite a few are protestant (including the ones that don’t talk to me since leaving their church), some are “devout” atheists, and a whole lot of them are pro-“choice”.
It’s actually quite fun BEING Catholic in my personal internet world. :-)
Boy, can I relate! So many people never show their face—instead they post pics of Jesus and Mary, or an unborn child, or a political slogan. I don’t want to be rude, but I get it, already! You’re holier than I am!! (I blog, with my own photo, at seasonsofgrace.net.)
Right on, brother. :)
Great post. Witnessing to Christ by talking about your daily life under His wings… And making it interesting, fun, relevant. Ana at
anabragahenebrysjournal.blogspot.com
Matthew,
A while back you posted on blogging etiquette and one of the things you listed as verboten was going off topic. Now you want us to form real relationships. I made an attempt back then to tell you that unless you are willing to meet people where they are you’re never going to build those relationships. Your post today is saying the same thing. I used to moderate for Jill Stanek. Over the 4 years that I was there, I built relationships with dozens of people. Real relationships. Most of them were pro choice, atheist or both. Not only are we all still in contact 8 years later, but I actually met many of them in person. A couple of them even stayed at my house for a few days. I’ve met people from St. Louis, Minnesota, Boston, Indiana…I’m still trying to get to New York. It was for the very reasons you mention that these “friendships” blossomed. Time. Sharing myself not just my thoughts. I’ve attempted to do the same thing here.
What you are suggesting is really, really important. Not just from a practical standpoint. There is a very real danger of seeing each other less like “persons” and more like words on a page, the larger blogging and texting become. And being Catholic is all about “Persons”. Abortion is what happens when we stop seeing each other that way and begin to think of each other as venting machines. Great post, great advice. Just remember it the next time one of us goes off topic…we might just be building a relationship! ;)
Good post. I am a bit shy in sharing my real life online, but now and then I feel compelled to share my Catholic life, a moment or personal experience in faith and that is when my friends and family and sometimes strangers actually leave a comment or share something going on in their life as well. I would like to hear more from you on sharing our real Catholic life. Anna at missionnurse.blogspot.com
Amen!!
Another shameless plug: www.chicagonow.com/beingcatholicreally or on Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/beingcatholic.really
Thank you for this - it is so well put. May I present two blogs -my personal blog, http://breadhere.blogspot.com, There Will Be Bread and my parish blog, much of what you find at my own, plus other posts by other parishioners, http://stedwardsblog.blogspot.com, Parish Blog of St. Edward the Confessor.
We must live integrated lives - as Catholic people. Amen for putting the call to do so out there!
Ceez,
I went to your blog and listened to your song…really nice. The refrain is still in my head…“I am the waaaaay, the Truth and the Life…“Where are you from? I can hear the accent, but can’t tell what it is. It also sounds like you’re goin’ through some “stuff”. I’ll be happy to share my email if you’d like…?
Pam,
Get Out! I had no idea you were in Chicago. Me too! I knew I liked you!
After my joyful acceptance into the Church, I began a blog to originally give my Protestant friends a place to stop and read what the heck I was thinking in my swimming of the Tiber.
http://themusicalmonk.blogspot.com/
http://3massketeers.blogspot.com/
Write On Brothers and Sisters, In Christ
D’art
Sometimes showing your “real face” means rejection. I’m amazed that I will be dropped as a friend on Facebook because some Catholics just will not accept what the Catechism of the Catholic Church has to say on an issue. To be sure they’re showing their face and so am I. Showing “your face” requires the willingness to step outside your comfort zone. The Lord asked for disciples and all we need to say is, “Here I am, Lord and I’ve come to do your will. Please give me the zeal to defend you, Lord, and the Church, which requires my willingness to show my “real face” and the right balance to not offend anyone in the process.”
You are exactly correct on this, Matt! After reading the comments on various websites on a regular basis, it’s obvious to me that those with an agenda make it a habit to patrol the internet and drop their propaganda. Catholic sites in particular are littered with complaints about pedophile priests, scandal, etc., etc., while political and pro life sites are repeatedly peppered with pro abortion arguments and sad stories of rare hard cases.
Catholics can share the lessons learned the hard way, etc. that point out the wisdom of the church—without necessarily even mentioning the church by name. For example, the morality the church teaches saves many of us from hurt, but we have to learn the hard way sometimes that promiscuous sex, pornography, etc., does not lead to happiness. I would argue simply that the lifestyles portrayed by the secular media do not lead one to a fulfilling life, but rather one of self-loathing, selfishness and unhappiness.
This makes me feel better about doing what I do online—which is mostly what you say. I just had a 2-day string of exchanges on a friend’s facebook post with a relative of hers who had been (and largely still is) an anti-Catholic atheist. I just shared with him my bit of knowledge about some areas where he happened to not have the facts. Apparently I did it in an engaging and charitable fashion (I try really hard) bc we had a 2 day convo about the faith…basically he’s in touch with everything that critisizes the Church, but on day 2 he “clarified” that he ad recently “returned.” I only put those in quotes because it was so important to learn that! So here, as I perceived, is a seeking, searching soul…and I think and hope and pray that God came through in our dialog, not me. HIs relative, my friend, was reading the posts and messaging me, very very happy and excited about what I was sharing with him so it must’ve been on the right track. Never met the guy, probably never will…I hope I pleased Jesus though.
Check out http://iamjoesalesblog.wordpress.com/
you have not said what you want us for/do to..
I am a Catholic convert, an Alaskan, a mother of 6, one of whom has cystic fibrosis. It’s all here : www.northerncffamily.blogspot.com !
Well said!
www.princesstine.blogspot.com
Blogging about motherhood, homeschooling, and faith, and well….life!
Amen to that Matthew - www.catholiclab.net
And thank you to all of the above. Where am I going to find time to go through them all?
Jesus is alive in us. And it’s through the stories of our lives that he becomes more real to this world. When we testify to the light in our own lives, then we are putting that light on its lamp stand. We are no longer hiding it under a bushel basket. When we share our stories honestly and authentically, Christ reaches through our lives to touch other hearts. And that is an awesome experience. All glory be to the Father, the Son, and The Holy Spirit.
www.lorislifeandtimes.blogspot.com
Thank you, Matthew for words of wisdom. It is true we need to be more visible in society but it is very comforting to realize, after reading many of the responses to your blog, that so many Catholics are also blogging about their lives, observations and struggles, which is what I try to do in my blogs. I think is especially important for men, as husbands, fathers and spiritual leaders of their households to stand up and fight the good fight; livingthefaithonahighwire.blogspot.com
Some websites to help:
www.MyCatholicFaith.org
http://www.facebook.com/pages/I-Love-My-Catholic-Faith-by-MyCatholicFaithorg/130293927666
For tweens:
http://omg-ruserious.blogspot.com
Hope this is encouraging
Dear Matthew,
Thank you for writing this, I really need these words today. I looked through the other similar posts you wrote (I’ll just comment on those here) and also enjoyed those—though they were a bit humbling! I have a tendancy to want to share all my thoughts in order to have a discussion with others to hopefully know truth and ultimately God better together with others but you are right, if we spend all our online time ‘evangelizing’ we won’t really envangelize anyone. I am thankful for the internet and social media that connect us all through various backgrounds and cultures and perspectives. Yet, these relationships cannot replace face-to-face ones and still have their problems. One of the problems with online relationships, mostly blogs, are that they can easily become one-sided. When I blog I can’t see the facial expressions or hear the gasps or laughter or “umm hmmms” when people read my words. Comment boxes are so important but are often misused or not used at all—which is a shame.
I enjoy building relationships with others both off and online but also have to remember to be safe and cautious. I use a pen name for myself and family and don’t put a lot of pictures of my children on my public blog (only on FB with strict privacy settings). This also makes it difficult for people to share their real lives online. How do you recommend people share their lives online with each other while also making sure to protect their privacy and their family’s safety and privacy?
I heard someone once say, “Being Catholic is a way of life, not something to just do on Sundays at Mass.” Everything you wrote here revolves around that statement. I pray that I am a positive Catholic example day in and out. Thanks for sharing!
“shallow and boring”—not a pretty picture. Such openness and honesty is refreshing when some introspection takes place. Peter reflected this attitude to his people in 1 Peter 2:9-12. He clearly defines the reason for a non-shallow life: “...that you may proclaim the excellencies of him who called you out of darkness into his marvelous light.” (ESV) No professing believer should live in the shadows when we have the Light of His presence with and from His Word: Psalm 119:105.
However, Joe Catholic is often inept at living a life that requires a change as Peter stated. Unless and until the spiritually dead are regenerated, people will just go about their business. My friends, I’ve been in your shoes for almost 24 years. Can many Catholics give a cogent and reasonable reason why Catholicism makes such a dynamic change so that an understanding of its purpose, canons, etc., make people want to flock to your doors (or RICA classes)? I’ll spare you the embarrassment because we know the answer. Is there doctrinal truth in RCC? Absolutely. Is there a sense of reverence within the actual church building? Most certainly. Are not the rites and liturgy presented in such a way as to make an outsider look within himself and cry out, “I am not worthy?” Probably not.
I believe most of the Catholic bloggers are far from shallow or boring. Many really send me into a searching for what they express. Most (as far as I know) are men and women above reproach. However, the New Evangelism is a repackaged and aggressive method using social media to reignite a candle that blew out a long time ago. Is “experience” from a church one once belonged to the driving factor to either come or go from Catholicism? I can only speak for myself, but when I came to the place of facing the Gospel and my eternal hope, I was persuaded—not with a fancy sermon, but the offense of the cross and why it was necessary. Providence and the Spirit were the factors that made me a new creation in Christ. Not water, not liturgy, not rites, not sacraments, not my good works, not some fading ember of faith supposedly buried in my soul—Only Jesus Christ and His once for all sacrifice. As hard as it is for RCC to open a Bible and read it for themselves, I challenge my Joe Catholics, shallow and boring as you may be, to take 30 minutes and read Hebrews without stopping. The Great High Priest and Chief shepherd of your soul is awaiting you to see what He was, is, and will be—to the glory of the Father.
I am a real Catholic. Brand new one too :O) Was just confirmed on Pentecost.
I have connected with other Catholics online, but I’m intimidated by most of them. I can’t quote scripture. I can defend our traditions through generalizations and based on how I feel.
I stumble and I fall. I get angry at Him, and I cry. But I love Him and I love our Church.
Wish I could meet more Catholics that spoke about those falls :)
Heather,
I was born and raised Catholic but left for a long time. I came back in my mid thirties. That was almost 20 years ago, but it feels like yesterday. I still have questions. I’m still learning. I’m still surprised by stuff I didn’t know that I didn’t know. Happened just today! I remember in the beginning thinking…“How will I ever learn everything” and actually believing that someday I’d finally “Know it All”. But it doesn’t work that way. The Church is VAST…seriously VAST. There’s theology, history, doctrine, biographies, scripture…but now instead of looking at it as a mountain to climb, I view it as a river that never empties, is always moving, and constantly has something new to see. As they say in Narnia…He’s not a tame lion. God/Jesus isn’t someone that can be “grasped” only “glimpsed”. Don’t sweat the falls. Jesus didn’t. Just get back up. This is a journey and like any road trip it’s going to have it’s waterfalls AND flat tires. But wouldn’t that trip be boring if it were all waterfalls? Those “falls” as you call them are all about going deeper, climbing higher. They are “lessons” in a personalized lesson plan. Learn from them, from others, from books and from the Man Himself. God Bless you and way to go on your Baptism! Welcome Home!
I am Catholic becaues of the true presence of Jesus in the Eucharist. I try to be like Jesus to those I meet and can serve. There is a difference in Catholic Eucharist and other Christian communion. Learn from the Bible that Jesus appointed Peter head of his church and those that follow him as pope. God Bless All, we love everyone znc ppray for everyone.
Heather, welcome to the Church! Like you, I’m often searching for blogs that I can relate to; I can’t quote Scripture like an expert and I’m a sinner, too. Feel free to poke around my blog (notaminx.blogspot.com), where I do talk about my need for confession and the sins I’ve committed.
There are a lot of great Young Adult Catholics blogging! I’d encourage everyone to check out Calling All Witnesses, Startling the Day, The Corner With A View, HeartShapedStone, and more! Very authentic, very honest, and pretty young!
Heather, welcome to the Church! Like you, I’m often searching for blogs that I can relate to; I can’t quote Scripture like an expert and I’m a sinner, too. Feel free to poke around my blog (notaminx dot blogspot dot com), where I do talk about my need for confession and the sins I’ve committed. There are a lot of great Young Adult Catholics blogging! I’d encourage everyone to check out Calling All Witnesses, Startling the Day, The Corner With A View, HeartShapedStone, and more! Very authentic, very honest, and pretty young!
Just reading these comments has been revealing. I’m left wondering what parts of daily life have been lost to an on-line life. Do so many people REALLY spend so much time on the Internet? I don’t get it. I find it a struggle to get to the Internet every other day and read my e-mail and the blogs at the NCregister and Catholic Exchange. The rest of my days are filled with job, family and mundane - BUT NECESSARY- household stuff (and there is no TV, btw). This continues even after my six children have grown and flown the coop. Where is everybody finding the time?!
Thank you for your Posy,Mr. Warner. Communicating with other Catholics in the various Catholic Websites I have subscribed to, has been very enriching for me. OK, I am lucky because I am able to spend more time communicating with my Spiritual Family in the Catholic Spiritual Direction, Eucharistic Apostolate of the Divine Mercy, Scott Richert Website, this National Catholic Register, Catholic Online Rome Report, The Vatican and others. Believe me, I have made friends in these Websites, we have enriched one another in our Faith such that most of us are always eager to come on our laptops and catch up on the news about our Holy Catholic Church worldwide and many other subjects that are posted on these Websites.
Perhaps you can expound a bit more on exactly what else can be added up in the Subject Matters for discussion and expand more in our responses, thereby growing and maturing together Spiritually.
God bless you and this Website. We are definitely very authentic Catholics, believe me. I know. I have been there, fighting the good fight with myself and defending my Mother Church when She is under attack. And as an Eucharistic Apostle of the Divine Mercy, I have become an Evangelizer of Christ’s message of His Mercy, given to us by Him through St. Faustina and Blessed Pope John Paul II. True, I am like every other authentic Catholic sinner out there where, as the Church Militant, we are marching confidently with the help of Mother Church through Her Teachings and Sacraments. And I am still going on strongly at 72 years!!!!!!! Or am I too old??????
to Lagniappe-i have seen your posts many times and believe you to be a sincere and articulate gentleman. So i reply with ultimate respect-our light has not burned out-our rituals are not feeble attempts to hold on to the past-we do read the bible-some of us everyday-some of us all day-sometimes Jesus simply spoke ‘get up off your mat and walk’, other times He smeared mud on blind eyes…I did read Hebrews straight through-as have tens of thousands of other Catholics genuinely in love with His word and desperately thirsting for His guidance…and I fell to my knees-literally-because i could not stand up any longer on my own-How could you not see the Eucharist jumping off the sacred page? His body and blood are a miracle-which you reject…my repsonse is this post-my first ever-you have the honor of encouraging me to participate-and my prayer that our prodigal brother sees the father’s arms wrapped in the Eucharist…
I agree richT…
It is Hebrews more than any other book that cements the Eucharist. What Lagniappe is really saying is that he did not understand the Catholic Churches teachings and did not feel himself to be “unworthy”. But those were HIS experiences…not ours. I love Hebrews. It so completely brings home exactly what happened on that Cross and how. I am all too aware of how “unworthy” I am to have been given this gift, as is any Catholic who knows his faith. How one can simply dismiss the Eucharist after claiming to read Scripture everyday is beyond me. The entire bible, front to back, is Eucharistic. Why, at Mass, just this morning, I was struck by the story of the Tree of Life in the Garden…How we were not to “EAT” of it and how God surrounded it with flaming swords to keep us out. Why? So that we would not seal our fate and live eternally in a state of sin. But we did eventually get to eat from that Tree of Life. By consuming that “Life” in the form of Jesus in the Bread and Wine. The first to eat from the Tree of Life were the Apostles and we have been eating from it ever since. From Genesis to Revelation, Scripture is ALL about the Eucharist! So sad when a person cannot see the forest for the trees…in this case, the Tree of Life itself :(
amen to that…
MK,
I am from Dominica (Not the Dominican Republic by the way :)) I am currently in the U.S. mainly for Univ. study.
Yes, lately have been extremely tough for me…
Thank you for reading my blog, I appreciate.
It would be good to hear from you and all my brothers and sisters here who are interested in faithfully connecting.
In Christ. (Thank you Matthew for this forum.)
God bless everyone.
Holy Mackerel Ceez, I just looked at Dominica! It’s GORGEOUS! Who knew! Definitely going on the bucket list…Is it really that beautiful????
Ceez,
You can email me at mkhastings at ameritech.net. I look forward to hearing from you.
lol You bet. It is referred to as The Nature Isle of the World. Indeed we are a natural beauty. Thank you for checking DA out. :)
http://ceezpaul.wordpress.com
Hey I am online at quietconsecration@blogspot.com AND on facebook as a Catholic - Out Loud. I am here…and I am a real practicing Catholic. I have to practice - it’s the only way I hope to get any good at it…
I do both, I like to think reasonably well. My personal life and my online life have collided much like the George of Seinfeld. Only it’s good. ;-)
It takes skeelz to make it work, but it can be done. It’s not good enough to give the “feeling” of being Catholic online, that has to be validated by the relationships you create, nurture and sustain IRL. Online friendships and IRL friends aren’t mutually exclusive, but the way people talk, you’d think they were. I think we first have to encourage people to understand that just because you’re *good* online doesn’t mean you don’t get out into your local parish community and vice versa. We really need to make use of all the tools available to us.
“Authentic means being humble and honest about our flaws and our need for the Church and the Eucharist”—This a excellent description of a true catholic! Right on!
Here I am Lord.
http://publicvigil.blogspot.com/
I agree in spirit with what you say. Although, I see nothing wrong with Bible verses and Catholic images. Images of Mary and the Saints are in part what makes Catholics Catholic. It’s how we know immediately that we have stepped into a Catholic Church and not a protestant one. We don’t need to give these up in order to be who we are. It is an integral part of us. If it distinguishes us, then so be it.
John 15:19 “You are not of the world, but I chose you out of the world.”
I concur with you MichealL about the images and things which distinguish us as Catholics on our blogs, FB pages and online in general. We definitely should never be give these up. However, I don’t think the author of the article was actually saying that we shouldn’t use our images and bible verses. I think they were seeking to encourage us to have a more personable presence, develop a better bond among ourselves. Be more than words, pictures and music, and become the people who develop them, sort of interconnected with each other.
For example: How many of us really connected with at least one person here since this post? I mean more than merely, placing our blog / sites URL’s here? And even more, how many of us, took any time to check each other’s blog out? We may not necessarily have the time to do this within one week, nor may we have time to check everyone’s work out, but
shouldn’t we seek to connect more on a real with other Catholic brothers and sisters after reading this post?
I have since added most of the links / url here as people I follow on my blog, so that I can easily access them, read, and hopefully drop a line here and there when I can. Check it out at http://ceezpaul.wordpress.com (With the hope that maybe some people will respond?) Do we care to connect with people in an authentic sense folks? Or is our world too busy?
Thanks MK for connecting within the past few days. It is awesome meeting you thus far. :) The point of the article I think is: Let us become more supportive of other Catholic bloggers, businesses, writers, musicians, artists, or just our brothers and sisters whom we can see virtually. Maybe we just may see physically sometime too. Even more importantly however, is the fact that since we are all part of the mystical body of Christ, we should connect spiritually, through prayer, intercession and support of each other.
God bless everyone.
Ceez,
You made it easy. Everything about your posts says “Look at me. I’m a real person”.
:) Thank you Mk…Blessings everyone!
Thank you all for the wonderful comments!
I wrote a followup post here some of you may like.
@mk - I never said or suggested not to meet people where they’re at. The practically universal best practice of keeping blog comments somewhat related to the original post doesn’t conflict with that at all (you should build real, personal relationships around the topic - that’s why most people are there reading). Keeping comments relavent to the post makes for a healthy community around the topic…which in turn maximizes the chances that natural, personal and relavent connections will be made between readers - now and in the future on that blog post. That’s precisely why it’s viewed as proper blog commenting etiquette.
Matthew, I understand the need to keep to the topic. I thought I was doing better…? I just think that sometimes, someone, will need something, that is off topic and part of being Catholic is reaching out. You’ll notice that I went offline to address an off topic line of thought this time…
I just think that some non Catholics or atheist will come on and bring up a point that while not topical to the post, is very topical to Catholicism. That’s what “I” mean by meeting them where they are. I’m willing to talk to anyone at anytime about anything…IF they are sincere. I have made a real effort since the etiquette post to keep to the subject. I understand your point of view. We each see blogging differently. I see it as a way to reach people and dialogue about whatever they want to dialogue about, you see it as a way to discuss particular topics at particular times. I respect your view and have tried to adhere to your guidelines. Neither one of us is wrong, we just have different ends in mind. It’s your house. When I’m here I’ll try to respect your rules. Feel free to let me know if I’m out of line…
@mk - I think you’ve done wonderfully! You just seemed to be implying that I had contradicted myself in encouraging people to be both personal and on-topic.
And of course those were just general guidelines…there are always exceptions. They are just something to try to stick to (while recognizing there will be appropriate times to break from them). And they are not just “my rules” for my blog. They are generally accepted standards and expectations when commenting on anyone’s blog that isn’t yours. And again, not just as a matter of having rules for rules’ sake, but specifically for the kinds of things we are hitting on in this post: effectively connecting with people - particularly in a personal, authentic way.
Matthew,
Yeah. I know they’re not just your “rules” and I know that they aren’t rules for rules sake. I’m not trying to give you a hard time, and I don’t really think you contradicted yourself. I just wanted to point out that sometimes going off topic is the best way TO connect. But mostly, I see why you’d want us to stay on topic. No worries. Sometimes I’ll spend days putting together a post, researching and what not, and we’ll end up talking about brownies or socks. I let it go, but I also think…wow, what a waste of my time! Then again, who knows who read the post but didn’t comment. Regardless, you are 100% right. Being Catholic is about the PERSON, not the words. And whatever the topic, we must remember that it is people we are talking with and not machines. I love your posts btw. I read most of NCR’s stuff but you and a couple of others really seem to push the right buttons. Your posts almost always get my fingers moving. Thanks for that.
PS. Matthew,
Oh my Gosh…did we just communicate on a personal level, have a “real” conversation and make a connection???? :)
“I am the Lord’s servant,” Mary answered. “May it be to me as you have said.” Then the angel left her.
Thank God for Mary’s obedience, if only more of us could be so accepting of God’s Word and trust in Him who alone is God.
Question:
In the Holy Bible, the Word of God tells us in 1 Timothy 2:5 that “There is one God and one Mediator between man and God—the man Jesus Christ” The Holy Bible also demonstrates in Hebrews 9:15, Hebrews 12:24 and 1 John 2:1 that Jesus Christ is the Mediator who speaks to God in our defense. Hebrews 7:25 says that Jesus “is able to save completely those who come to God through Him, because he always lives to intercede for them.”
Can you explain to me, although none of the New Testament or Old Testament saints or prophets or priests prayed to or venerated Mary, why we as Catholics should do so? Most every book in the new testament begins “Greetings to you in the name of the Father through our Lord Jesus Christ.’ Never a mention of Mary. If we believe in the Holy Trinity i.e. Father, Son and Holy Spirit, where is there room for a fourth person as we so ascribe to Mary? If the Bible says that Jesus lives to intercede for us and that we are to ask God anything in His name, that we have the right to go directly to the Throne of Grace through the Blood He (Jesus) shed on the Cross for us. Why are we deviating from God’s simple command? Will we not be held accountable for teaching a different gospel? Will the Holy Spirit, the Spirit of Truth contradict His own Word? Is there a chance as Colossians 2:8 says that we might be paying more attention to the wisdom and traditions of men rather than Christ Himself?
Is there anyone on this page who will help me to come to terms with the above?
Thanks
Timothy,
If you are sincere in you desire to know, I’d be happy to answer your questions. Let’s start by clearing up your Mary fallacy. Mary is not part of the Trinity, she is not divine and we do not worship her. She is favored among all humanity because of the great role she played in salvation history. Her “yes” changed the world, just as Eve’s “no” changed it thousands of years before. Scripture tells us that Jesus intercedes for us, but it also tells us that the Saints, Mary and yes, even we, intercede for each other. Every time we are told to pray for one another, we are being told to “intercede”. When Paul tells us to place ourselves on the cross, we are being told to intercede. When Gabriel tells Mary she is “Highly Favored” he has indicated her elevated status in the human race. Mary is the Mother of Jesus, the Mother of God. The fourth commandment tells us to honor our Mother and Father. If nothing else, we know that Jesus held His mother in the highest of esteem. We can do no less. She was pitted against Satan way back in Genesis. Jesus “gave” her to the world while He hung on the cross. She is the Mother of all humanity. We love our earthly mothers, and we love our heavenly mother. In no way does this make Mary divine or part of the Trinity. It does however, make her very special, and we give her the same honor that her Son and her Father gave her.
Timothy,
I don’t want to get into a “Scripture War” because as a Catholic, I don’t believe that everything in my Faith is expressed explicitly in Scripture. As a Catholic I believe that my Faith can never contradict Scripture, but not that everything must be explicitly stated in Scripture. Nevertheless, there are Scripture passages that speak of the Saints being alive, and passages that tell us to intercede on one another’s behalf…
@mk: Your quote: It is Hebrews more than any other book that cements the Eucharist.
RESPONSE: Ah, the whole point of Hebrews is that Jesus Christ is superior to everything, even the priesthood of Melchizedek and Aaron’s OT priests—for they continually made sacrifices which could never take away sin. Melchizedek was of higher order and was the king of Jerusalem but Jesus is the centerpiece of the Psalm 110 quotation (compare with Peter’s sermon at Pentecost proving that (Acts 2:34). But Jesus had an impeccable nature and by God’s determinate counsel and foreknowledge (Acts 2:23)became the all time single substitution sacrifice on a tree (Hebrews 10:12; Col 2:13-14), ONCE FOR ALL SAT DOWN AT THE RIGHT HAND OF THE FATHER”—a phrase used throughout the epistle. If the Eucharist is in cement, then your reading of Hebrews 10 banishes all need for a recurring offering.
@mk - 2nd quote here: Why, at Mass, just this morning, I was struck by the story of the Tree of Life in the Garden…How we were not to “EAT” of it and how God surrounded it with flaming swords to keep us out. Why? So that we would not seal our fate and live eternally in a state of sin. But we did eventually get to eat from that Tree of Life. By consuming that “Life” in the form of Jesus in the Bread and Wine. The first to eat from the Tree of Life were the Apostles and we have been eating from it ever since. From Genesis to Revelation, Scripture is ALL about the Eucharist! So sad when a person cannot see the forest for the trees…in this case, the Tree of Life itself :(
RESPONSE: What you present here is an allegory of non-Biblical origin. Why? Though I understand that God forbade men from eating of the tree because they would be sinful forever. However, a if you take it as a literal tree, then you cannot make the allegorical story have a sense of reality. Just like Eve and Mary—same thing. Therefore, my honest compatriot for truth, I cite Revelation 22:1-5 as to the location of the real tree and its ultimate purpose. That should “cement” that salvation is not in any church but in a person, THE LAMB OF GOD. Peace
Lagniappe,
ONCE FOR ALL SAT DOWN AT THE RIGHT HAND OF THE FATHER”
That line is not found anywhere in Scripture, let alone throughout all of Hebrews.
You are free to interpret Hebrews, and all of Scripture for that matter, in any way that you wish. I interpret it as a Catholic. Our understanding of Hebrews is so far from yours that it causes one to wonder if we are reading the same book. All I can tell you is that, as I am sure you know, we do not adhere to Sola Scriptura for many reasons, not the least of which is that it is not Scriptural…
The entire book of Hebrews, as the Catholic Church has always professed and always believed is Eucharistic. No one has claimed that Melchizedek was on the same level as Jesus so I don’t know where you get that from. Jesus was a priest, in the order of Melchizedek, meaning once a priest always a priest…a priest forever. His body was offered once, for everyone, for all time and all we have to do is access that Sacrifice through the Mass. No new body, same sacrifice. The Tree of Life is not a “real” tree anymore than the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil was a real tree. Jesus is the Tree of Life, and this “tree” gives us fruit to eat…the fruit of eternal life in the accidents of bread and wine.
Mary most certainly is the answer to Eve. Her yes, replaced Eve’s no, and the rest is HIStory.
Salvation does come from Jesus and Jesus alone, and He built His Church upon Peter, to protect and defend that Salvation. We are not saved by the “Church”. We are saved by Jesus and Grace, but the means to that Grace are acquired through Jesus’ Bride, the Holy Apostolic Catholic Church. He did not leave us the Church as an afterthought and it is not an optional venue. It is HIS Church, not ours, instituted at His direction, as was the Mass and all of the other Sacraments. It is not a man made institution, but a living, breathing entity, the Bride of Our Lord and the means through which we access the Graces merited by Jesus’ Death and Resurrection.
Peace to you also.
Mea Culpa for writing “Father” instead of “God.” But the words mean the same. Also, Heb 1:3 states “...of the majesty of God.” Mk 16:19 and Lk 22:69 repeat that Jesus “...sat at the right hand of God.” Eph 1:20
records Jesus “...at his [God] right hand - EMPHASIS MINE.
The point is that ONE OFFERING FOREVER was all that was necessary. And you surely painted yourself into a serious theological corner with these words from your last post: “Salvation does come from Jesus and Jesus alone, and He built His Church upon Peter, to protect and defend that Salvation. We are not saved by the “Church”. We are saved by Jesus and Grace, but the means to that Grace are acquired through Jesus’ Bride, the Holy Apostolic Catholic Church. He did not leave us the Church as an afterthought and it is not an optional venue.”
RESPONSE: The RCC controls the “grace spout.” Justification is by Christ alone through faith alone apart from any church. By accepting that the sacrifice of Christ allows you to “impart” grace through the sacraments is just a control measure. No sola scriptura makes it easier to reject “imputed” righteousness and absolutely makes the work of the cross of none effect. Hebrews 10:29-31 (esp 29). But may I suggest a quiet retreat to our Lord’s intercessory work as the Great High Priest in Heb 4:11-16 [esp 16]. No mention of a confessional or a church. Sitting at the right hand of God means the Father accepts Jesus’ work as full payment for the sins of those who truly repent and believe [not a spurious faith].
I will study more into the Catholic view of Hebrews—that way I can better see the RCC point of it all. Peace.
Lagniappe,
MY point is that nowhere does it say that Jesus sat at the right hand of the father once, and for all. We know that can’t be true, as He will come again, in glory, to judge the living and the dead. Do you not believe that He will come again? Will He bring his “seat” with Him? I am certainly not denying that He sits at the right hand of the Father, but that is not a literal statement. It means that He is once again “with” the Father, and shares in the power of the Father. His right hand man, if you will. Do you deny that Jesus can be in many places at one time? Does He not promise to be “with” us always? Does He not say that wherever two or more are gathered in His name, He is also there, with them? Again, does He walk around with his “chair”?
As I said you are free to believe anything that you want. For 1500 years the Church believed the things I have claimed. It was the only way TO believe. Not until Luther and his ilk came along did the idea of Sola Scriptura, Sola Fide or Once Saved Always Saved come to be known. These are novel ideas, not Scriptural and if any church was man made it is these. A cursory reading of the Church Fathers, the Didache, Augustine or non Canonical accounts will tell you that the church you belong to did not exist until the 1500’s. That’s all I need to know. Our Faith is based on Apostolic Tradition, Scripture and the Teaching Authority/Magesterium of the Church. That is what I believe. If you choose to believe the more modern version called Protestantism, that is certainly your prerogative. I prefer to stick with what was since the beginning of the Church as Jesus instituted it. Arguing Justification, Grace, Imputation vs Infusion…it’s all just a waste of time as your very definition of these words is different than ours. I say Faith and I mean something completely different than you. You say Grace and you mean something completely different than I do. We end up talking past each other instead of to each other. This is not the proper venue for this conversation anyway, as I have given Matthew my word that I will stay on topic. Perhaps we can pick it up again when it’s more topical?
Peace to you again, also.
I think I qualify for having the most recently begun Aggie Catholic blogs: crescentcitycatholic.blogspot.com
Hah. Hopefully I won’t be shallow and boring!
thanks for the encouragement. my husband and i were called to start a blog a few years ago. we are constantly discerning our involvement in social media. there is much to consider.
ultimately, we hope to share our JOY and give glory to God.
JOYfilledfamily.blogspot.com
I don’t know Matt, my experience is that Catholics, the good ones, eat each other for lunch in the public forum.
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Posted by Jo Flemings on Thursday, Jul 7, 2011 10:13 PM (EDT):
I don’t know Matt, my experience is that Catholics, the good ones, eat each other for lunch in the public forum.
***
Great post. I believe it stems from the fact that everyone thinks it’s OK to ignore Canon 227, which specifically says that the laity should refrain from publicly opining on doctrine. However, on many comboxes (and some op-eds on this and other “catholic” sites, varying contrary opinions on doctrine are expressed, some in an inflammatory and very uncharitable manner. It causes schism where there need be none. Ironically, many who ignore Canon 227 are at the forefront of condemning “cafeteria catholics.”
Hi my fellow catholics i don’t know about a real catholic but here goes
my story: I hector carrasco born in 1954 in a small town outside
El Paso Texas, raised by a real catholic devoted mom and grandma, they
prayed the rosary every night. I went through a lot of ugliness in my
younger years went to prison 5 times but through the advice of my mother
I would follow her advise of praying strongly to Our Lord for His help
to get me through these 5 terms, which i did it was on the sixth time which was only a parole violation which only carried 120 days of
incarceration, anyway i was injured severely, suffered a hemotoma(bleeding
and swelling of the brain), which i went through brain surgery to relief
the swelling and bleeding. My amazing grace starts with the fact that
about a year before this injury i started praying the rosary every night
and i truely belief that Our Heavenly Mother interceded for me in asking
Our Good Lord to save me from eternal damnation which he did, i believe it
because that night i i got hurt i did pray as usual and now after about
two years and a half of having to go through many struggles. I believe
I am about healed to my normal self and no human doctor did this it is the
lord, I have to proclaim that i have seen the Glory of The Lord in my
journey to Our heavenly kingdom, there is more but i just want u all to
digest this short summary for I truly do believe the Lord is next to me
all the time,
Yours truly hector carrasco
email Rascoace@hotmail.com
Blog with heaven in mind but if you’re Catholic communicate the social atrocities, which I believe are the number 1 reason for ALL of our social/economical despair.
If your voting for a pro-abortion, gay agenda politician…you’re not Catholic.
Tired of all the talk around and true love arguments. This is war folks.
You either believe in freedom according to the constitution; which does not state or mandate the separation of church and state, or you’re for a socialist/borderline communist state. It is THAT SIMPLE, and while you’re at it google flourishing socialist states.
Imagine if the 69 million Catholics in this country would stand united on social issues and voted that way? Wake up the ignorant
Most Roman Catholics today do not really know or understand what it means to be an “authentic Catholic.” Your aticle neither defines what you mean by being authentically Catholic nor does it go far enough. In short a truly authentic Roman Catholic who lives and breates Catholic orthodoxy; being faithful and obedient to Jesus Christ and, therefore, to the tenets, doctrines and teachings of the Church which He founded. Unless one is an “orthodox,” that is an “authentic” Roman Catholic, one is not really a Roman Catholic at all, regardless of what you claim to be.
Contrary to the modernists and liberals within the Church as well as outside of it, the Roman Catholic Church is NOT a democracy. It IS a Theocracy with Jesus Christ, King of kings and Lord of lords, as its head with the Pope as His vicar on earth and the Magisterium as the governing body. Therefore, to be an “authentic” Catholic was must be loyal and faithful to God, to the Church and to the Pope.
Thanks for putting this invitation out there, Matt. Much agreed. Here’s my own little contribution, my weekly effort to give thanks for the everyday joys of life that we so easily overlook: http://walkingwonder.blogspot.com
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