In this very “meta” blog release, Greydanus performs a vital act of public service. Recollections of spoliers past (the career of every critic has its beginning) and musings on the novelizations of popular movies are on offer, but the real treat for causal fans here is the revelation that we haven’t yet seen all there is to see of “Brave”. Not to be missed. A+

The Catholic blogosphere’s most valuable commenter has done it again! Victor has more ice-breaking combox “firsties” than anyone else in the business … and with his unique wit, Catholic bloggers wouldn’t have it any other way. ****

I hate surprises, so I don’t really care about spoilers.  A good movie consists of more than a plot twist and, in my opinion, if the whole draw of a movie is it’s twist, it’s probably not a good movie.  But I did enjoy “The Sixth Sense” and “Fight Club” whose plot twists were more important to the film than most movies.

Spoilers have never ruined a movie for me.  Reading the book before the movie, however, has spoiled a movie.  I read “True Grit” before seeing both film versions, and I was disappointed by each.  As I watched each film I compared the scenes to how I imagined it in the book and the film versions never seemed to surpass what I thought the film version should be.  The same thing can be said for “Lord of the Rings”.  Loved the book but did not like the movie.

Unfortunately, I’ve already read the reviews for “Brave”.  They are mostly positive and it seems like “Brave” will at least be an improvement over “Cars 2”.  Even the reviews that seemed disappointed said that, overall, “Brave” was a good film.  So I’m looking forward to seeing this, but on DVD (streaming, really).

@Steven: can you comment on the age-appropriateness?  We have a couple young ones at home who have yet to see a movie in the theatre and are always looking for that first opportunity. :-)
**
Re: spoilers - I strongly dislike them!  Thanks for this article!

RMMT: I’ll be reviewing next week, but FWIW I’m planning to bring my whole family down to the four-year-old. Some sensitive youngsters may find some bits too scary/intense.
 
Tim: I agree that a good movie is more than a plot twist, and that a movie that works only by tricking you isn’t a good movie. I even said so, in the paragraph beginning “I don’t mean only with respect to tricky plot twists or puzzle-solving revelations.” My point is larger than that.
 
FWIW, my dissent from some of the early criticism of Brave goes beyond willingness to reveal the second-act twist. I have specific quarrels with other critics that I’ll be getting into soon. Actually, they’re already under discussion over at Arts & Faith.

Great. Now I know there’s a second-act twist.

Sorry, Gavin. At least I didn’t spill the beans about the third-act twist.

Oops.

Thanks for the warning.  I do not like spoilers, but I ususally like to read one or two reviews before seeing a movie to get a few general impressions.  Shutter Island was semi-spoiled for me by a clumsy review.  However, I have started trying to write some of my own movie reviews.  In that case, I do not read any reviews, or if I do, I just skim read them because I do not want them to have any influence on me.  I will see The Dark Knight Rises completely cold (I won’t even check its score on Rotten Tomatoes.)

And as someone who first saw The Empire Strikes Back as a child without knowing any of the surprises, I immediately knew that small green creature was Yoda, but everything else was a surprise.

@SDG: I looked over that Arts & Faith discussion but had to stop when you revealed spoilers to your upcoming review.  Spoilers of movies is fine by me, but spoilers of reviews of movies is too much.  I wasn’t too happy either that you revealed in the above article that you wouldn’t spoil anything… thereby spoiling everything!

And sorry if I reiterated what you stated in your article.  My internet attention span is extremely…. we were talking about Prometheus, right?

Heh. Just to be clear, Tim, my point in noting the convergence between your comments and my posts was just to put the apparent difference between us in perspective, to highlight the extent to which we don’t disagree.
 
As for attention span, I don’t know whether — SQUIRREL!

I want to go back in time and write a pre-opening review for “The Wizard of Oz”: “Oh, and when she opens the door after the tornado, everything’s in color!”

I can’t imagine what it must have been like to have seen “The Wizard of Oz” NOT knowing about the “surprise”!  (Even though it wasn’t the first color movie, almost all films were still black-and-whites at the time.)

I think spoilers ruin the movie. I think that there is a critical sense of judgement when people know a little about the movie, and I think it takes away from really enjoying the movie. I don’t read reviews from sites, I just wait until a movie comes out and then i’ll see it and then I might check.Most of the time I don’t because if I liked the movie then I liked the movie.

I’m so bad about movies that i get Steve’s ‘grade’ and that is it. I go see it without or with very little info. I like surprises. I somehow feel the movie is more mine if i see it without someone else’s opinion. Weird eh??

When I participated in the 2002 Star Wars II 6-week line at Grauman’s Chinese Theatre in Hollywood, CA (as well as the 2005 Star Wars III 6-week line, same place), there were more than 200 people in line at any one time (we were raising money for a children’s charity by asking folks to pledge per hour each of us spent in line—raised over $65k btw).
The line organizers can up with a unique way of determining each person’s declared ‘spoiler’ status.  If you were a “Red”—absolutely NO spoilers.  If you were a “BLUE”—some spoilers were known, but you weren’t actively seeking to know everything about the movie.  If you were “GREEN”, spoil away—to the point that actually sitting down and watching the movie was only an exercise in participating with an audience as they watched the movie you already knew everything about. 
Throughout our time together, everyone respected this and watched out for those of Red and Blue—in particular they were fastidious about not spoiling the Reds.  It was an amazing act of fellowship.  Both times, I walked into the movie theater with these people at the midnight showing, not knowing anything (whereas for SW I, I was a Green all the way). 
That being said, before the SW experience, I was the person who always read the last chapter of a book.  (This stopped with Harry Potter, btw)
I do remember the gasp that went through the audience at the ESB reveal.  To this day, I still am not sure if Vader is Luke’s father—I was so angry over that development.  Hee hee.

My brother’s been pestering me to watch Game of Thrones for months. I kept telling him I’d get round to it, but the other day I watched the last five minutes of the last episode on Youtube out of curiosity- needless to say, it contained massive spoilers.
I told my brother what I’d done and he had a kind of mental breakdown.
Actually, he’s got a very good attitude attitude towards spoilers. He refuses to read reviews or watch trailers, and basically relies on me to tell him what to watch.

THAT’S what happens in Star Wars?

Thanks a lot, Steven.

Steven, thanks for the great article!  For the reasons you mention here I don’t usually read movie reviews.  I agree completely with your take on film viewing and comments about Episode V.  I still remember when I first watched the film and how I felt after viewing it—shocked, incredulous, and wanting to see more. Don’t think I would have felt that way if I had read a plot summary.

I had a similar experience with Pixar’s “Cars.” I remember reading reviews for it, and *every single review* I read gave away the two crucial plot points of the film (Doc Hudson’s identity and McQueen’s final redemption).  The movie was ruined for me, and I’ve never forgotten it.

In line with your advice, should we also not read your review? :)

GE: Please see the one-sentence penultimate paragraph of my post above. :-)

Thanks for the post, Steven.  Per the discussion at Arts and Faith, I was amused because I saw a trailer for BRAVE this weekend and in relation to the secular reviewers grumpiness about the First Theme he says is left in favor of something else (trying not to spoil here!) - when I saw the trailer, I thought, “Great. One more cartoon about (First Theme). Yawn.”

Glad to know it’s much more than that. Looking forward to it.

Amy Welborn:
 
Your reaction to First Theme in the trailer—and to the secular critic’s grumpiness that First Theme isn’t the overarching theme—exactly tracks with my own reactions. :-)
 
My upcoming review touches on this, and I’ll discuss it more when the movie opens.

BobL:  My husband had only seen “The Wizard of Oz” on TV and a black and white one at that! (his dad was color blind and refused to buy a color set)  He didn’t know that most of the movie was in color until he was almost a teenager.  How’s that for not getting a spoiler!

The trailers for Brave do at least *hint* at the twist, though.  Let the viewer understand.  :)

As for the Star Wars trilogy, I have absolutely *zero* recollection as to what I knew before I saw The Empire Strikes Back.  I have no memory of the surprise, and I have actually made a point of “spoiling” that surprise for my own children because I don’t want to be complicit in Yoda and Obi-Wan’s lie.  (It’s bad enough that I’m complicit in George Lucas’s lie by pretending that Luke’s father and Darth Vader were the same person in Obi-Wan’s mind during the *first* film.)

When Return of the Jedi came along three years later, I did make a point of reading the Time magazine cover story before the film came out; it “spoiled” the fact that Vader really *was* Luke’s father (there had been much debate about that during the three-year gap between the films), but it avoided mentioning anything as blatantly spoilerish as Vader’s redemption.  And as things turned out, Return of the Jedi ended up becoming the very first film I saw on opening day.

The first time I can remember a critic *complaining* about spoilers was probably when Terminator 2: Judgment Day came out, and a local critic complained that the marketing and publicity for the film had given away the fact that Arnold was actually a good guy this time.  I happened to see that film with a friend who had studiously avoided learning anything about the film in advance, and I can remember how pumped and surprised he was when Arnold actually *protected* the kid from the guy in the policeman’s uniform; I must admit, I did envy the fact that my friend got to have that moment.

I just finished all six seasons of “Lost”, courtesy of Netflix. If anyone had provided spoilers to me I’d have claimed justifiable homicide at the trial. Who wants a predictable movie anyway? I’d rather watch paint dry.

Steven—I am eagerly awaiting your full review of “Brave”, and am heartened because it sounds like you have a positive view about the movie.  My 8-year-old daughter really wants to see it, but I have been concerned that it is either stridently feminist in its viewpoint, or that it has pagan elements.

I wasn’t exactly “spoiled” for The Empire Strikes Back, but I did read that the identity of Luke’s father was revealed. I knew immediately who it was, and when I saw the movie, I was disappointed to find that I had guessed correctly.

I intensely dislike spoilers. When I decide that a show or book might be worth watching or reading, I don’t read anything at all about it until after my first time through. When the last Harry Potter book was published, I bought the hard-bound edition as soon as it was available and read it immediately, even though I’m not an obsessive Potter fan. I just wanted to see for myself how it all ended.

Thank you VERY much for the warning! As someone who hates spoilers, I’ll be giving reviews of this a pass. (I may also make an effort to see it in theaters instead of waiting for it to come out on DVD.)

I wasn’t born yet when ESB came out, but I did learn a major plot twist of “X-Men” from the Baltimore Sun’s reviewer. As a huge X-fan who’d been waiting eagerly for the movie since I’d learned it was going to exist, I was not pleased.

Thank you for the warning! As I was reading your post it occurred to me that this also makes a wonderful metaphor to explain (at least in part)why sex should be reserved for marriage. Not just saving the sexual act, but going out of the way to preserve the innocence of both mind and body so that you can experience the thrill of surprise and discovery with your spouse on the honeymoon as much as possible.

Peeking at the ultrasound picture has always seemed like a spoiler to me as well. We have waited for that euphoric moment of birth to discover the gender of each of our seven children. It has been a special experience for our family every time.

Quoth the Animaniacs: “Citizen Kane-y!”

I’m not going to spoil myself regarding “Brave”, but I have to say that I’m almost exactly the opposite of you and just about everyone else I know.  I NEED spoilers.  You spoke of being traumatized by spoilers?  I’ve been traumatized by NOT having spoilers—that is, by watching or buying movies that I assumed I knew about and would like, and I HATED them.  I got burned too many times, to where I decided I didn’t want to go into any movie, even one that looked like I would enjoy it, without knowing about it, lest I get burned again.  And it doesn’t help if it’s a popular movie, either: I’m still wondering what there was to LIKE about “True Grit”.  I saw it and I asked myself, “Where’s the movie?”  I heard people say it was better than the original and I thought, “How bad was the original, that this is BETTER?”  Other people’s opinions have no bearing on what I as an individual will think.  So, yes, I need spoilers.  But on your advice I won’t spoil myself on the twist in “Brave”.

I agree 100%  I hate being spoiled.  It ruins a lot.

Let me guess: The villain was working for Ganon. Again. ;)
   
I hate spoilers. I even hate spoilers for stuff that’s long past the expiration of the so-called statute of limitations. Hey, you never know when someone might discover one of the classics for the first time.
   
@Jimmy: It’s been a while, but I remember a Catholic Answers Live in which Steven complained about that spoiler—and told everybody what it was! Sure, I’d heard of the trope (TVTropes will ruin your life, btw) “It was [redacted]” but I had long since forgotten what it referred to, and was thus retroactively un-spoiled. And then along comes Steven! :mad: (Not that I’m actually offended; I still haven’t seen the movie and don’t plan to. I’m just saying it’s ironic.)
   
Steven, you mentioned Up in the post proper. What irritated me about the marketing for that one is that the trailers contain an especially insidious kind of spoiler: The kind you don’t know is a spoiler until you see the beginning of the movie. You know going in who the bad guy is, but you didn’t know you weren’t supposed to know. Aaaaugh!

Thanks so much for warning us! I can’t believe how easily people give away important plot points. Ever been in line waiting for your HP book and some 7th grader hollers out the person who gets killed????Yikes! Popular culture nightmare! I was intrigued by “Brave” before I saw your non-review and now I must see it!

SDG, one of the reasons I trust your reviews (and a few other critics’, like Jeffrey Overstreet) more than others is your carefulness (some would say scrupulosity) in this regard. In fact, sometimes your plot descriptions are so coy that I have to expend some effort figuring out what certain passages in your review mean even after seeing the movie.
 
I have great admiration for Roger Ebert, but one of his greatest flaws is his insensitivity to spoilers. The very first paragraph of his Citizen Kane review, for example, displays jaw-dropping thoughtlessness. I now make a point of avoiding his reviews for all films I have not seen that I have even a mild interest in.
 
Unfortunately, I think I already know the second-act plot twist for Brave, but there should still be plenty to discover, and from here on out until I see the movie I’ll be careful. I think SDG’s cryptic comments are a reasonable basis for optimism.

SDG,
                                                   
I found myself smiling while reading this piece. I appreciate this insight into the care and thought put into writing film reviews.
                                                   
I try to avoid big spoilers now, but when I was younger I was far less careful, and indeed openly spoiled a film plot point or two for myself and others (mea culpa!).
                                                   
One problem that I consider the cousin of spoilers is over-hype for a film. When The Fellowship of the Ring came out, spoilers weren’t a problem, (as I read the books), but my experiences of the film was better than my experience of The Two Towers, partly because I let the hype for the second film build my expectations to unrealistic levels. That, and the fact that FOTR is the better film.
                                                   
Excessive hype for a film can be almost as bad as plot spoilers.

Hate spoilers, wasn’t thinking and bought the little golden book for the movie.  My oldest son was reading it to his brothers, and suddenly stopped, closed the book, and said, “Mom, we shouldn’t read this book, it will spoil the movie.  Can you put it away until after we’ve seen it?”  It’s safely hidden away.

I don’t know, people keep seeing Hamlet even though everybody dies in the end—oops, sorry!!

I don’t care about spoilers in the least, but I appreciate that you’re sensitive to your readers who do.

I guess reading the book before watching the movie cured me of my spoiler fanaticism. :-) That, and I’m a writer, so plot twists and how they execute them tend to make me more excited to see the movie.

Darth Vader is Luke’s FATHER????? How did i miss that???

Steven,

I appreciate your take on spoilers.

Long ago, as a kid I hated spoilers and always sought to see a film unspoiled.

Unfortunately ... over the years - there are too many films with an agenda, and as one of the targets of the all too common, and all too vulgar stereotypes; I don’t appreciate them.

thanks - keep up the good work… keep your comic collection dry…

btw…

just to be clear - I read reviews;

1. to avoid a traumatic experience… thanks, but I’ve been called a racist and a bigot by better metrosexuals than Hollyweird has to offer.

2. to avoid wasting time ... I took a girlfriend and her son to Transformers and thought I was going to die. there’s more to watch on my front lawn.  Strange for an old Godzilla fan; but i’ve never connected with the Transformers. Too many films accomplish both No. 1 and No. 2.

3. to avoid wasting precious entertainment dollars ... my family has never been on vacation - except when I’m unemployed. So it’s a big deal (tho it’s a pittance compared to my taxes.)

Note - Nos. 2 and 3 are usually the same; but there are a few popcorn flicks I’d just as soon see at home…

thanks again…

I was upset at a review of “Wall-E” that spilled the beans on the first act surprise.  It was fun seeing the surprise the first time, and the review had no need to kill the fun.

I’m with topeka. Too many of these new-animated features invert tradtional fairy-tale morality and heoric tales into pablum for secular therapeutic culture that is more geared for arrested adults than children, and I prefer reviewers with a well-trained eye for it.

Jimmy Akin: Aargh! You know how that “Animaniacs” gag makes me nuts. To spoil the most famous twist ending in Hollywood history for generations of children is just unconscionable, and all the worse coming from “Animaniacs,” which I generally hugely enjoy.
 
Linebyline: Did I really say what Rosebud was on “Catholic Answers Live”? Sheesh. In my defense there’s a difference between a radio show aimed at a mostly adult audience, many of whom I presume have seen Citizen Kane—and a great many of whom know the ending even if they haven’t—and an animated TV show that appeals to children (though also adults) who haven’t even heard of Citizen Kane and may never have seen a movie in black and white. Also, of course, when you’re speaking off the cuff you say things you wish you hadn’t. “Animaniacs” took the trouble to animate the sequence and drop it into any number of shows, and nobody ever thought to say, “Gee, maybe we shouldn’t do this one, guys”?
 
P.S. I just went and checked my review of Citizen Kane. It doesn’t say what Rosebud is. :-)
 
Within limits, I think we can allow for a kind of statute of limitations on very well-known spoilers, like Darth Vader being Luke’s father (although even that one I didn’t spell out in my original blog post above). People have to be able to discuss these things. If you haven’t seen The Sixth Sense but you know there’s a big twist at the end (and for what it’s worth I’m glad I saw it on opening weekend before I knew that there was a twist), and you find yourself in a discussion on the film, you should remove yourself from the discussion.

Chris:
 

“I was upset at a review of “Wall-E” that spilled the beans on the first act surprise.”

 
After I read this I was worried that it could have been me. I mean, how do you discuss Wall-E without revealing what happens in the first act? Yet I know I wouldn’t want to know ahead of time. So I went and checked my review. I should have known myself better. :-)
 
But that’s a good example of the challenge of reviewing a good movie (or some good movies) without spoiling it. To write well about Wall-E without revealing what happens in the first act takes some doing. You almost have to reach for a quasi-poetic way of speaking. I see that I did the same thing in my review of Up. It’s not easy, but I think it’s worth it.

I wasn’t aware that WALL-E *had* a first-act surprise.

In any case, SDG, your comment that you’re glad you saw The Sixth Sense before you knew the movie even *had* a twist gets me wondering how you would apply your no-spoiler policy in a case like, say, The Crying Game, which I myself saw before I knew the film even *had* a twist.  As I’ve written elsewhere, the twist in question was somewhat traumatic for me, at that point in my spiritual development, and I imagine at least some of your readers might have been in a similar position.  Are there no cases where, as you see it, protecting a “spoiler” might do more harm than revealing one?  Or would you find a way to skirt around the twist even there?

Peter T Chattaway:
 
Your comment about The Crying Game raises an important point, one connected to the many comments above from people to the effect of “I need to know if a movie is going to have an agenda or problematic themes; I’ve been burned before; etc.”
 
I’m certainly not saying critics shouldn’t provide readers with the information they need to make an informed choice about whether or not to see a film. If it’s true that my reviews tend to me more spoiler-wary when I like a film, that’s partly because sometimes I don’t like a film because of moral issues related to content or theme, where I feel it’s my duty to provide some cautionary indications to readers.
 
How strongly I feel about the moral issue in question generally correlates with my willingness to spoil something if it’s necessary to make my cautionary point. So if something is very offensive, I’m more likely to come out and say what it was. If it’s a significant spoiler I’ll probably bracket it with spoiler warnings—but if I want to make sure that concerned readers will press on to the spoiler I would ideally want to make that clear as well. (Looking back at my review of Million Dollar Baby, I see I didn’t do that as well as I would have hoped.)
 
Obviously this is where the critic’s moral judgment and the reader’s trust comes in. What would be a cautionary point of concern for one critic might be a point in a movie’s favor for another. So it’s helpful for readers to find critics whose general moral sensibilities, if not particular tastes, reasonably align with theirs. That’s part of the reason I do what I do.
 
My point here is certainly not “Don’t read reviews in general,” or even “Only read religious critics.” I’m not saying don’t do due diligence before seeing a film (and certainly before taking your children to one). I’m just making a point about what helpful and unhelpful criticism look like, and why in the case of Brave I think many critics are being unhelpful.
 
A good critic in whom you have a reasonable amount of trust should be able to provide you with enough information about a film to give you moral confidence (i.e., actionable confidence) about seeing a film ahead of time. I’m not saying it will work 100 percent of the time, but I think it’s a better approach than seeking out max spoilers ahead of time to make sure you never, ever see the wrong film (or miss the right one).
 
P.S. Regarding Wall-E‘s first-act surprise: Read my review and note what I allude to without spelling out. :-)
 
P.P.S. Just occurred to me to clarify: I’m using “plot twist” and “surprise” loosely to mean “a new wrinkle” or “an unexpected turn of events.” I’m not talking about the kind of tricky or revisionistic twist that causes you to reinterpret what’s gone before. I think that’s reasonably clear from what’s been said but thought it might be worth spelling out again.

The first time I watched Empire Strikes Back, I wasn’t surprised by the twist, because I had already seen the movie before.

What I mean of course is that I’d seen it so many times as a kid I can never remember watching it for the first time.

There are some movies that absolutely are spoilable, even though it’s not a problem to watch them again, you may never appreciate them the same way if you’re spoiled in the first place. Once, for instance. Not because of any big twists. But reading a synopsis won’t let you understand. I tell people it’s about a guy, a girl, and music, in Ireland. And that they should watch it. You should watch it.

But I love reading SDG’s reviews beforehand, because they’re so oblique, and then reading them again afterwards.

1. As an adult who has never seen Star Wars, I only knew one of the spoilers you listed out before reading this blog. The Star Wars spoilers just seemed to go on and on. I started thinking this was a Star Wars review! Well, now I know all the high points…

2. As a mother of a sensitive and anxious ‘tween, I love reading spoilers for movies I’m considering taking her to so that I can judge if she’ll do well and can then prepare her appropriately. Thanks to all the non-spoilers, we left the theater part-way through the movie with her in tears over UP when it came out. Sure wish I’d known in advance.

After seeing the Japanese trailer for Brave (the tag line of which is focused on the second act), I know that I need to do some reading and preparing for this one. I would have had no clue with the icecream and candy American marketing. I’m so glad I didn’t have reviewers making the decision for me on what info I need for my family to enjoy the film!

Carol Ann:
 
Goodness, you sound hostile. Not a reaction I expected to provoke in this particular discussion.
 
Where do I start? First, I’m not “making decisions” for anyone—about anything. I’m offering perspective of a certain kind that I think will be helpful to many people, among other things, in making their own decisions about whether to see a movie.
 
Other sources of information are of course available to you—and if you make the decision that you want information of a sort I don’t offer, fine. You have complete freedom to make the decision to seek out the spoilers you’re looking for elsewhere.
 
What was the content in Up that caused you to have to leave early with your daughter in tears?

P.S. To be clear, this isn’t a review of anything—Brave or Star Wars. It’s a blog post about spoilers, occasioned by some reviews of Brave.

I am sorry I sounded hostile. I was trying to keep it short and probably lost some of the finesse that could have come with a longer explanation.

It has been a while since UP came out, but if I am remembering correctly then the problems really started when Muntz went on his tirade inside the airship and we were walking out around the time the pack of dogs was chasing them.

I don’t have a problem with you choosing not to reveal twists and spoilers and applaud you for remaining consistent and for letting people know what they can expect in your reviews. It’s the criticism of others revealing spoilers, so we’d be left only with the marketing whitewashes if your vision of no spoilers in reviews became reality, that I don’t want to see happen.

P.P.S. I’d heard about the Japanese trailer but hadn’t watched it until now. Um. Wow.
 
It’s a great trailer, but it looks like the story’s themes have been significantly revised in translation.
 
All that business about “humans breaking the law of the forest” and “living in harmony with the forest, and the whole mono no aware vibe, is really an alien — and obviously very Japanese — gloss on the story. Not what the original English film is about at all.
 
Second, while the Japanese trailer does give a better sense than the American trailer of general shape of the film (the American trailer is really selling the film as imitation DreamWorks), happily neither trailer reveals the second act twist I objected to other reviews revealing.
 
Note: I’m not saying the second act “twist” is such a shocker that you’ll never see it coming. I saw Brave again last night with my whole family, and Suz saw it coming a mile away. But she figured it out from the movie, which is to say, she discovered it by watching the film — which, as I say above, is the right way to discover what a movie has to offer.

Thanks, Carol Ann. I was hoping I had misread your tone, and should have said so. Sorry about that.
 
To clarify my stance: I certainly don’t want sources of in-depth, spoiler-rich parental advisory content to go away! Sites like ScreenIt.com, PluggedIn.com and kids-in-mind.com perform a valuable service. Also IMDb.com now has a helpful parental advisory section for films once they open. I approve of these and recommend them to parents who want that kind of specific information.
 
In the case of the main plot point in Brave—I don’t see it as a content advisory issue for my families, but I certainly don’t want to make that call for all families. The information should be out there for parents who want it.
 
That said, the reviews I’m criticizing—Variety, Hollywood Reporter—aren’t providing this information as a service to parents. Nobody reads Variety or Hollywood Reporter for that, and anyway the way the reviews are written it’s clear that the writers just don’t think it’s a big deal that people go in knowing what happens. They treat it as basic background information about the film.
 
That’s what I object to: the idea that it’s no big deal whether you go in knowing what happens or not. Conscientious parents may want to spoil themselves on a film and find out everything that happens—and other people, for reasons of their own (that I don’t really understand), like knowing all about a film before watching it for the first time.
 
But in general I think that mainstream reviews should maintain a level of spoiler sensitivity, for the simple reason that a large number of mainstream readers, though they want enough information about a film to be able to make an educated decision about whether or not to see it, don’t want to know plot points in granular detail—and for what it’s worth my own feeling is that this is the better way to watch movies, even if some people have reasons for wanting to have that level of information.
 
Hope that helps. Thanks again.

P.S. Thanks for bringing the Japanese trailer to my attention again — I’d heard about it before but hadn’t watched it until now. Um. Wow.
 
It’s a great trailer — I like it much better than the American trailer — but it looks like the story’s themes have been significantly revised in translation.
 
All that business about “humans breaking the law of the forest” and “living in harmony with the forest, and the whole mono no aware vibe, is really an alien gloss (and obviously a very Japanese one) on the story. Not what the original English film is about at all.
 
Oh, and while the Japanese trailer gives a better sense than the American trailer of general shape of the film (the American trailer is really selling the film as imitation DreamWorks), happily neither trailer reveals the second act twist I objected to other reviews revealing.
 
Note: I’m not saying the second act “twist” is such a shocker that you’ll never see it coming. I saw Brave again last night with my whole family, and Suz saw it coming a mile away. But she figured it out from the movie, which is to say, she discovered it by watching the film — which, as I’ve been saying, I think is the right way to discover what a movie has to offer.

Speaking of audiences, I wonder if the fact that the “trade” papers are, well, papers written for people in the business—and not primarily regular moviegoers—should be factored into the discussion.  I.e., the original purpose of these reviews was to help theatre owners plan their bookings; it’s the reason these reviews underscore the financial prospects of the films they review, and it’s the reason these papers get to run reviews so early, long before the embargoes are lifted on other critics’ reviews.  The distinction between “trade” reviews and other reviews is largely meaningless nowadays, now that everything is equally accessible on the internet, but still, are “spoilers” a concern where this particular readership is concerned?

On another note, I saw the film last night with two of my kids, one of whom was eagerly describing the story to her mother this morning.  And this got me wondering what she might tell her friends at school today, or indeed at any point between now and the film’s release date next week.  And this, in turn, got me wondering, SDG, if you’ve been giving your own children tips on how they should tell their friends about the films that they get to see in advance with you?

Peter T. Chattaway:
 
Good points all around, as usual.
 
It’s fair to suggest that trade papers like Variety and Hollywood Reporter can have a special focus, even in these days of the democracy of Rotten Tomatoes, where fans eager for any early word about a much-anticipated film may well read whatever is available. Of course, my larger concern (as I did indicate in my original post) is that reviews yet to come will be just as revealing. As for the trade papers themselves, well, maybe I can’t blame them for spilling plot points quite as much as I would other reviews, but I can certainly warn readers away from them.
 
Very interesting question about how kids talk about movies. I’m very sure my older children have absorbed a strong anti-spoiler ethic and wouldn’t tell their friends anything untoward. As for the younger kids…hm, I just don’t think they talk much about movies with other kids at church, homeschooling co-op or around the neighborhood. If I foresaw that it might be an issue I might caution them in some cases (as they’ve been cautioned about talking about, say, Santa Claus around small children).

Thanks so much for the warning! I hate being spoiled; it ruins the ride. (Even when I can see a twist coming from a mile away - like in The Usual Suspects - I get a kick from figuring it out on my own. Though in the case of The Usual Suspects, I probably picked up on it so early because I knew there was one coming.)

I remember a Simpsons bit where they flashed back to Homer leaving Empire on the first night and saying something along the lines of “Can you believe Darth Vader is Luke’s father?” as he passed the line of people waiting to go in. As funny as the moment was, I’ve always thought of it as tragic.

I was only one year old when Empire came out and the films were a part of my consciousness before I could understand them, so, being a big Star Wars fan, I used to lament being cheated out of the Vader reveal, but in high school (pre-prequels) I watched the movies with a girl I babysat for who was entirely raised on black-and-white movies and had never seen Star Wars…and she got such a thrill from the surprise that it was almost like seeing it again for the first time.

Thank you for this article. I watch maybe one movie a year (maybe?) and I did want to see Brave, but normally I load up on reviews ahead of time. I’ll forego this time.

But at the end of your article, I’m left with a question I can’t possibly answer; what would it be like to not know anything whatsoever about Jesus…and read the Gospel of Luke for the first time? Wow.

(Sorry, Steve.  I didn’t mean to imply that *you* spoiled Wall-E.  It was an amateur reviewer, on another Catholic web site.  I complained and they removed the entire review.)

Personaally, I like knowing in advance what’s going to happen.  It seems to help me evaluate early events better in light of their ‘eschatological meaning’ - but I’m probably weird :-)

jj

I totally agree with you Steven on spoilers and the element of discovery when watching a film for the first time.  I prefer to go in as fresh as I can without much knowledge of the plot at least beyond the opening scenes.  I do want to go see Brave but I fear just by mentioning “plot twist” I’ll be spending most of the first act trying to figure out what that twist might be.  Which in turn could ruin my enjoyment of the first act until the twist is revealed.  This happened to me sort of with The Sixth Sense.  Someone mentioned plot twist before I saw it and after 10 - 15 minutes into the movie had figured it out, which in turn pretty much ruined the rest of the movie.  Although a great movie no matter what is revealed stands up even if certain plot aspects are accedentially or purposefully exposed.  Lord of the Rings for instance.  So I hope brave doesn’t rely soley on the plot twist to make the movie worth while and it’ll hold up to repeat viewings.  Unless of course it’s just a ho-hum movie with old re-hashed plot lines that have been played to death thanks to the disney franchise.  Here’s hoping.

A friend of mine (born in 1980) went to see Star Wars when it was re-released.  She said she felt like a dork when Luke’s parentage was revealed and she was the only one in the theatre who gasped out loud, inviting laughter from the other patrons.  She does agree that at least she got to enjoy the surprise. 

Last week I sat down and watched The Karate Kid w/ my kids.  My two eldest kept asking me why Mr. Miagi was making Daniel do all this work.  I just said, “watch.”  The next day they visited my MIL and told her they’d seen the movie.  She immediately said, “Wax on, wax off.”  I was pleased that they hadn’t heard the phrase too early.  :)

As a mother -  of now college age kids- I have come to absolutely insist on reading reviews that give the full monty.  Since I am English and most certainly not a movie buff…..forget about asking me any movie star’s names let alone which movie they starred in- especially in the last 10 years. The one time in the passed when I broke down and did not follow my rule was when my daughter turned 13 and she wanted to go to the movies with friends for her 13th birthday, something we rarely do because of the cost involved and usually the lack of my ability to preview a movie before my kids see it. We went to see something which was either full in the end or the time was wrong so I caved and agreed to see what I thought was supposed to be a comedy about men ice skating - I should have known better. I felt violated watching that movie.
This is why on Monday I went with trepidation on a ‘girls night’ to watch a preview of Brave with my 18 y.o daughter, my son’s 21 y.o girl friend her 18 y.o sister and their mother. - I had not seen any reviews - it is Disney ,I was completely unsuspecting so the thrill of discovery was definitely a sentiment I can now appreciate. Although I will say that I happen to have an uncanny ability to ‘write the script’ once I am in a movie which is why they usually bore me so I had already figured out the Sixth Sense plot for example within a very short period (probably all those Agatha Christi books trained my mind as a child) so this was a rare experience for me - I certainly did not figure out what was going to happen in Brave.  Had I read about ‘grumpy’ reviews about the ‘first theme’ I may not have bothered to go, but we got free tickets at work and I love Scotland and had seen one trailer on TV. Overall we would have missed out if we would not have seen it.
Without trying to spoil too much but for the mother of girls trying to raise them counter culturally, I will say that the movie afforded us a lovely girl’s night out and we followed by dinner and a good discussion on the various themes not just for girls and women but the portrayal of men. As for some scarey stuff….we were a bit scared in some parts but the 7-10 y.os next to us were laughing- sad but true. Any ‘pagan’ aspects are IMHO properly portrayed in the historical setting and the results are correct IMHO. Hope I did not tread on any toes.

Steven, just returned from seeing the movie, and I completely agree with you about the title.  The Bow and The Bear was a MUCH better title and they should have stuck with it.  But we all really enjoyed the movie.  We’ll add this one to the home collection when it comes out.  And thank you for not spoiling it by giving away the twists!  I’m glad I took your advice and did not read any reviews other than yours.  Thanks for keeping the magic and surprise intact!

Steven and others,
We are a family of 5, so the chance to take a family to the movies is non existent.  The last movie the entire family went to see was The Pirates who don’t do anything - and one daughter paid for everyone to see a matinee, and the other did all the chores so we could go.

But I may make it two for this movie - based on this and the other reviews Steven gave on Relevant Radio and other Catholic radio outlets.

Regarding spoiling of ‘twists’ and surprises.  To me, this jumped right up to what we see every Christmas time when non one wants to work at giving a surprising and pleasing present.  We have to have a list.  And if we don’t get something from our ‘list’ we get upset, that folks won’t pay attention.

As a child we never had that - sure we made lists of what we want, but I never recall ever _getting_ any of those things.
What did it teach me?
Enjoy the moment
God (and our parents, family) may know us better than we know ourselves.
The Journey is part of the adventure - not just the destination.

What we loose is the lost - and it is only destination that matters.

However, how does the Cross have any power without the understanding how how Jesus was betrayed by a friend, convicted in a kangaroo court, and was brutally tortured before he died?
Not to mention the previous 33 years of his journey to that point in time - the journey and full unveiling matters and makes for a richer experience, if one wants a richer experience.
fwiw

You’re gonna hate me for this, Steve, but when I took my kids out to buy birthday presents for a (female) friend of theirs yesterday, we stood by the Brave display, and there were five items to choose from, and my son went for the one item that had a hint of boyishness about it: namely, the package with the three brothers… the one and only item on the shelf that had anything remotely spoiler-ish about it (though the spoiler in question here *is* hinted at in the trailer, for whatever that’s worth).

Sorry for being late getting back to you, Steven. Like I said before, I wasn’t mad. (I don’t know where “:mad:” came from. Something must have auto-corrected it from a frowny face emoticon.) I don’t hold it against you in the least, but I appreciate your remarks on the subject. Thanks.
   
It does, however, bring up the issue of how difficult it is to discuss the problem of spoilers without actually committing spoilage. That you were able to write this article is pretty impressive.
   
I think I need to have a stamp made up that says “I agree with Stephen.”
   
@Peter Chattaway: I’ve seen a commercial for the toy I think you’re talking about. It has the word [which I will not repeat] in the name, which is the only hint I got that such event would even be happening in the movie.

My own review for Patheos.com avoided spoiling this very significant plot twist. What a great film!

Hi Stephen!
Thanks for posting the Top 100 Catholic movies.  With all of the Yuk it is great to have a list of go to’s.  You should add to that list The Guiessppe Moscati Movie.  It is very inspiring even though it is in Italian. 
Thanks for all you do to inform us and to raise the bar.  The Hunger Games commentary was a great help.
Thanks Again!
Cindy

You were right—it was DEFINITELY a good thing not to spoil myself!  I didn’t see the you know whats coming at ALL!  But now that I think about it, there is one movie I was spoiled too much for, to the point where watching the movie for the first time felt like cobbling together all the snippets of it I’d seen on TV and nothing more than that: the live-action remake of Charlotte’s Web.  It’s possible to spoil yourself too much, and it’s possible not to spoil yourself enough.