That’s pretty much the same thoughts I had when healthcare reform was passed.  Because we failed to provide healthcare to those who needed it via private means the government was able to step in.  And they may step even further.

May step in farther?  That was the whole point of the bill: in a few years, it will be obvious to “all” (the politicians, that is) that the govt is the only one we can trust for health care, and viola! state sponsored murder.

So…. The commies don’t want to drain my fluids then?

“At the same time, guys like Glenn Beck make their job way easier because they really are irresponsible with their endless hysterics and comparisons of everything with a pulse to Hitler. “

If you have to exaggerate to the point of outright lying to make your point, you really don’t have much of a point. I don’t see Beck often. But when I do, I always come away thinking how he is actually quite measured and bookish; and how criticism such as the above is more or less a fabrication.  When the entire left wing media establishment takes responsibility for the recent murder of eight white people by a black man obsessed with racism (wonder where he got the idea), we can take commentary like this seriously. Actually, we couldn’t even then.

My feeling is that you can’t respond to an extreme from the middle.  You will be sucked over to that extreme.  You have to hope, pray, and responsibly respond from the other extreme.

It seems like one should apply what seems to be the point of this article (responsibility in public discourse) to the following line: “At the same time, guys like Glenn Beck make their job way easier because they really are irresponsible with their endless hysterics and comparisons of everything with a pulse to Hitler. ... Beck spends his show feeding hysteria about obscure crap that, as ever, is going to doom us all.” I’m glad Mr. Shea is realizing the power and importance of words and the care we should employ in using them. Perhaps he will be more selective, precise, and accurate in the future and not give in to gross exaggeration.

criticism such as the above is more or less a fabrication

You can’t be serious.

Yes, yes.  I know the people compiling the clips of Beck’s hysterical ravings are ritually impure.  Still and all, that is Beck up there doing the hysterical raving and comparing everybody with a pulse to Hitler.

When the entire left wing media establishment takes responsibility for the recent murder of eight white people by a black man obsessed with racism (wonder where he got the idea), we can take commentary like this seriously.

I pretty much agree with Morgan Freeman that we would all be better served if the Left stopped obsessing over race.  But, as is obvious, the Left has no intention of doing so, just as it has no intention of desiring free speech.  Those of us who say we favor free speech and ordered liberties should stop cutting slack to irresponsible demagogues instead of whining “They’re the problem, not our tribe.”  It’s called “being a responsible citizen”.

I have to agree with Kurt and Dan.  Every time I have watched Beck, I am struck by his passion and love for our country. He makes some very good arguments.  Mark dismisses him as if he is some kind of kook with no real message and that is totally uncalled for.  Does Beck get carried away sometimes?  Yes, but that is his personality.  You may not like his ways but if you listen to what he is saying, he tells it like it is.  Do I agree with everything Beck says?  No, but that doesn’t mean I dismiss him as “irresponsible” and as someone ” feeding hysteria about obscure crap”.  Shame on you, Mark!

“that is Beck up there doing the hysterical raving and comparing everybody with a pulse to Hitler” 

The “hysterical raving” is simply your overblown (perhaps hysterical?) characterization. The Hitler thing is just plain factually incorrect.  He has made numerous dead-on connections between today’s “progressives” and the vile, totalitarian origins of their movement.  That’s what makes his critics squirm and rant.  Can you argue with any of that?  The Hitler thing?  Not so much.  Can you provide an itemization of Beck Hitler comparisons, along with context?  If not, Pot meet Kettle.

When faced with the extreme radical character of this administration, this congress, and the modern American Left in general, moderation and passiveness is no virtue. 

Media Matters can make fools of themselves and call for censorship all they want.  The best counter strategy is to keep them busy documenting all the cases of people engaging in heresy of the statist religion; not to tone it down in a feeble attempt to pacify them.  To say that Media Matters is intellectually stunted and dishonest is to put it mildly.  They breathlessly report every known instance of people expressing independent thoughts.  They are a joke and everybody on their radar should take pride in the fact.

Mark, regarding your link to the Tyranny of the Nice. Actually, Canada has a Charter of Rights, which in many ways is similar to the USA’s Bill of Rights. However, it only applies to interactions between the government and the citizenry. Hence, Mr. Steyn’s “persecutors” had to use the ridiculous “Human Rights Tribunals” which are quasi judicial bodies whose abolition/restriction was recently recommended. They are truly bizarre bodies whose usefulness has been outlived and which are a scourge on the Canadian landscape and are definitely used by people to try and restrict free speech - which routinely fail . FYI, I would not use Mark Steyn’s writings as an apt, nor definitive, description of Canada nor of Canadians. His viewpoint definitely leans towards the utilitarian bent, and he would find many papal teachings, from Pius’s writings on modernism to Benedict’s Caritas in Veritate to border on communism.

Mark,

This is the second post I’ve read of yours about Beck.  You seem a bir obsessed with him, yet athe same time don’t understand him at all.  I also think you are dead wrong.  But I, like you, am entitled to my own opinion.  Keep up the good work!

Mr. Shea: Your response to “Kurt” proves that my hope that you would take your own advice was misplaced. That’s too bad.

Mark, I usually agree with your arguments, but I think that you should verify that what you believe Glen Beck has said was taken in context.  We don’t want to wrap ourselves up in the same Breitbart situation.

What I mean is that, although I don’t watch Glen Beck, I sometimes listen to Rush Limbaugh, not because I always agree with him (I don’t), but because he is a person who gives you the counter-point to the MSM in a very funny and sarcastic style.  I have heard specific shows of his that have been used by the left to display his views as something completely different than what he had said simply by quoting just one sentence, free from its context.

Beck’s knowledge is biased by his Mormon education.  Therefore any remarks of his about Christian or Church history must be scrutinized. But I agree with his characterization of Woodrow Wilson’s foreign policy as a complete disaster, as IF the USA had stayed out of WW I, the Europeans would eventually have reached a peace settlement based on mutual exhaustion, rather than a “revenge” settlement designed by France, that left Germany doomed to an economic catastrophe, fueling WW II.
Note that the USA has felt the need to keep interfering all over the world since then.  We have no particular interest in Bosnia.  WW I was triggered by Serbia (a putative democracy) not surrendering the anarchist who had assassinated the heir to the Austro-Hungarian throne (a monarchy).  So we waged a war “to make the world safe for democracy”.  75 years later, we decide to bomb Serbia to force a settlement on our terms to wars attending the breakup of Yugoslavia.  Now the Serbs living in Kosovo are being oppressed by the Kosovo muslims.
Our resorting to military force to push other people into accepting our designs for peace doesn’t seem to work well; and the further away we try to do it (e.g. Iraq and Afghanistan), the less well it seems to work.
I believe that Glen Beck is “right on” in his skepticism on some of the US foreign policy approaches.  He also seems accurate in his disparaging of some of the expansions of our Federal govt. under the Obama administration.
TeaPot562

Mark,
this is the second time you have wrongly maligned Glenn Beck!  I have been listening to him on the radio for the past 2 years and watched his program on Fox almost nightly (or DVR’d.  If you had ever really listened/watched him you would know he dearly loves God and this country and has awakened thousands of Americans to our history and our founding fathers. I challennge you to watch him for at least one week and then see if you change your mind!!  I pray for his return to the Catholic faith!  GOD BLESS GLENN BECK!

Where did I say that Glenn Beck doesn’t love this country?

Mark Have you suddenly switched to becoming a political commentator! It
does seem that you are really “going after” Glenn Beck without ever
mentioning the guys on the other end of the spectrum e.g.Keith Obermann, Chris Matthews, etc and their diatibes of hate and over the top comments! Personally I am sick of all this right and left ideology talk…let’s just drop the politics and stick to right ...and wrong!! From a Catholic point of view…I thought that was where you were coming from..please we
don’t need another Democratic liberal blogger!!

Adele:

I mentioned the guys on the other end of the spectrum at the beginning of the piece: the anti-free speech Brownshirts of the Left with their stupid speech code and PC pieties.  I am neither a Democrat or a liberal.  It’s fascinating to me that my criticism of the Left don’t seem to register, as though these are on a frequency inaudible to conservative ears.  Result: people somehow form the notion that I “only” critique the Right.  I suspect Lefties have the same difficulty and imagine I “only” critique the Left.  As to writing from a Catholic point of view: I thought that was what I was doing.

Re: Olbermann, Mathews, et al.  Can’t stand ‘em.

Mr. Shea:
Thank you!  A breath of fresh, undogmatic, and truly non-partisan air is quite refreshing, indeed.  Keep up the good work!

And to all you Catholic “conservatives” out there, remember the men responsible for formulating the basic principles of what is now the “conservative” standpoint: Thomas Hobbes (the first great modern materialist), John Locke (who thought we should not tolerate any men whose religion requires obedience to a foreign Sovereign), Jean-Jacques Rousseau (the forefather of the “conscience permits all” movement), and that wonderfully Christian thinker, David Hume (“Take any book…  of Divinity, say, or of old school [i.e. Catholic] metaphysics… [and] consign it… to the flames, for it can contain nothing but sophistry and illusion”).  Contemporary “conservatives” are, in truth, no less liberal than our current president, and believing Catholics would be well to not mary themselves to any political spirits of the age.

Beck is a prophet

Beck is a Mormon and an apostate Catholic.  Time was when Faithful Conservative Catholics[TM] had enough sense to realize that false religions are a bad place to look for prophets.  However, in our present age of cafeteria Catholicism, partisans driven by every wind of doctrine in the culture are particularly eager to get their catechesis from “prophets” who tell them what their itching ears want to hear, rather than from Holy Mother Church.  Would that Catholics spent their time learning their faith from the teaching of the Church and not anointing Mormon apostates as “prophets”.

Gee Whiz Mark, I was just kidding.

Sorry.  Cyberspace doesn’t carry tone of voice or facial expression.  I’ve run into quite a number of Catholics who have said that in dead earnest.  I’m glad you’re not one of them.

Why is Mark Shea writing for the Catholic Register?  He demonstrates what has happened to our country with the dumming down of generations.  I don’t know why Beck left the Catholic Church but Jesuit Liberation Theology could have been the reason.  When you want the government to do everything you lose your value as a human being created by God.  Beck is right to sound the alarm but you and many like you will never get beyond you self pride to know until it is too late.

Holy cow bricks batman…here we go again:)!!! folks, try to remember…Faith first and politics a distant third or fourth - I have to remind myself all the time cause I have friends who are caught up in their pet theories and political peeves which drives their blood pressure up and causes their voices to rise at the mere appearance of possible disagreement with their point of view…the time for reasonable discussion seems to have gone the way of the do-do bird - I for one appreciate a little hyperbole which Mark uses now and then to make a point and elicit a chuckle so even when I raise my eyebrow in disagreement I still enjoy the style - because my faith is forever but politics and pundits are extremely transitory…

Mark

I’m not a big Beck fan but when I do catch snippets he comes across as well reasoned and logical. He is proving good at connecting the dots and if nothing more instilling a desire to inquire further into our countries history.
Our country is developing into an oligarchy and these never prove benificial to any except the ruling elite/regime. Comparisions are inevitable, but I’m really getting tired of critics complaining about Nazi/Hitler comparisions. I just don’t see it happening.
Beck is a usefull tool. From what I see he is acting responsibly, I just don’t enjoy his style.

I agree with Patti and Adele and TeaPot562 and ToddC and Kurt and Dan and Barbara! 

For a long time I did not listen to any of Beck’s shows because I believed the slander about him.  I like to focus on issues rather than personalities so I try to avoid media cult figures.  Based on the hysterical reports I had read, I concluded that Beck was all ego and very little substance. 

I was so wrong!  I am very impressed with his views and his leadership and his careful attention to detail.  He is profoundly patriotic, devout, honest and well informed.  He is not shrill or viscous. 

No, he’s not perfect but I think he is the closest thing to a voice of reason that we have and I have become a regular listener and a big fan.

I think it is offensive to write him off because he is Mormon.  I wouldn’t want people of other faiths to dismiss me because I am Catholic. 

Besides, let’s face it, we Catholics have really dropped the public moral leadership ball lately and we should be grateful and gracious to the Mormans who have picked it up and run with it.

Glenn Beck is acting within his rights.  However, he is most definitely not acting responsibly.  How many “entertainers” do?  This goes back to the whole idea of critical thinking.  First, don’t confuse having an argument with having a “good” argument.  They’re not the same thing.  Everyone has their point of view.  That, alone, doesn’t make their argument correct.  All claims must be based on the merits of the evidence.  Furthermore, don’t confuse “passion and love for our country” with substance.  Again, these aren’t the same thing.  Appearing “measured and bookish” doesn’t say anything about the substance of an argument.  However, it is a good way to get bamboozled.  Yes, we all have responsibilities.  And in a free society, one of those responsibilities is to critically evaluate any and all claims made in the name of “free speech”.  Beck can say what he wants; it’s up to us to decide what to do with it.  He only exists because there’s a market for his drivel.  Don’t be fooled.  There’s censorship and control on both sides of the aisle.  One could say that Arizona had to enact its immigration law because the federal government refused to act.  But we can just as easily say that the government had to enact health care reform because we, as a people, refused to do anything for people who couldn’t afford it.  If we really have the values we say we do, none of this would have been necessary.  We had our chance to reshape health care legislation into something workable.  Instead, we chose to fight the idea of any health care program at all.  Good people who wanted this to work, but only asked that abortion not be funded, were bamboozled by a right wing machine that only wanted to deny the President a legislative victory without offering a better alternative.  An alternative based on their presumed “Christian” values.  People like Glenn Beck helped this happen.  Like Mark (and Chesterton) said, we’ve abdicated our responsibilities and let others step in to do out thinking for us.  This is very, very dangerous.

Mark…you “thought you were writing from a Catholic point of view?”
Since when does the Catholic Church have a “view” on Glen Beck!! Mercy
me…I know that the USCCB has involved itself in some pretty questionable
political matters but Glenn Beck?? I think perhaps you are pandering to the readership of NCReporter to sell an article they surely love…but
it “reeks” of politics way to the left (even though you try to mollify your readers by claiming allegience to neither the left nor to the Democrats).
There is little of interest to those who looked to learn something about the Faith. You got our attention by quoting Chesterton..but then went on to serve up something quite different. Nothing Chesteronian follows!

Adele; let’s be honest.  Mark did more than simply “deny allegiance to any political party.”  He began his post with a very pointed criticism of the Left and its motivations; specifically, recognizing its urge to limit free speech.  He pretty clearly indicates that this is (1) undesirable and (2) a specific motivation of the Left.  He goes on to refer (derisively) to the “Nanny State”…not exactly an indictment of the Right!  That said; I suspect your real upset lies in the fact that Mark found fault in the Right at all.  Apparently, a good Catholic is supposed to uncritically accept anything the Right says and does while bashing the Left without regard to specific behavior or issues.  I’m not Catholic, but I suspect this isn’t a requirement of the faith.  Did Jesus come to teach us about Free Markets?  Did he deny healing to those who couldn’t afford it?  No.  It seems to me Jesus was the type to “call it as he saw it”, without regard to pet ideologies.  The idea that any political party is 100% in-line with Christian values is completely artificial; a lie perpetuated to get your votes.  And it works as long as people are too lazy to examine their values and the issues for themselves.  And, by the way, this is EXACTLY what Chesterton was talking about.

James…Obviously you and Mark are in agreement concerning Glenn Beck!
Others commenting here along with myself find that the thrust of this article condemnatory and misleading. Despite his denial( which he gives
to mollify the more conservative readership) of being neither liberal nor a Democrat) most of us are capable of indentifying a leftist position such as Mark takes here.  That’s fine! Right now, Nanny-State or no, he
has that right! But the first two paragraphs basically are just to justify his political leanings are unbiased. e.g. quoting Catholic
Chesterton ( who can object) is again camouflage for what he really wants to say…that Glenn Beck is misleading and misinterpreting the facts..just as he does in his spiritual realm. e.g. calling him a
Catholic apostate turned Mormom.  Okay! We get it ..but where does Mark
think within this article we are being enlightened in matter of Catholic faith and morals? This is pure political diabtribe…from the liberal left kind of thinking. As I said this will appeal to most readers of the
NCReporter…but to those of us who prefer the NCRegister it does not!

Mark,

Get over Beck, already. Please. I can’t take much more. He’s small potatoes.

Adele:

The Catholic Church has an interest in responsible use of the right to free speech in a civilization of ordered liberty.  Those who describe themselves as faithful conservative Catholics are supposed to care about that.  Sorry if my failure to observe tribal pieties offends the right as well as the left.  As to nothing Chestertonian about the piece, I can only point out that it was Chesterton who said that when you fail to keep the big laws, you get the small ones.  Speech codes will most certainly follow a civilization that can’t keep the Big Law of using the right to free speech responsibly.  Sorry you don’t like to hear that, but it remains a fact.