I really cannot believe the idiocy of this article.  At first I thought it was a parody from The Onion.  The FACT is that the church moved these monsters from parish or school to parish or school where they continued to prey on additional children.  You should be ashamed for this pathetic attempt of rationalization.

The one and only reason that the US Church did anything at all in 2002 to improve the safety of our children is that the media and court of public opinion forced them to.  This was not something they undertook on their own, but a reaction to the public outrage that became so widespread that the US Bishops were forced to sit up and take notice.

The Church at large obviously learned nothing from it, or the entire Church would have adopted similar policies.  Instead, this was viewed as largely an “American Problem”, and the hierarchy went on its merry way, right up until the past few months when once again, the media (this time worldwide) forced them to address the fact that these horrors were committed all over the world.

I find the argument that only a few “new cases” were brought forward in 2009 weak at best.  Experience clearly shows that most victims are not able to come forward until well into adulthood, many times decades later.  So I don’t think the argument of only a very few new cases is at all compelling, although I do certainly hope and pray that the changes the US Bishops were forced to make ARE making a difference in the
safety of our children.

It seems to me, though, that any huge decrease in child abuse within the church is probably due in good part to the fact that now that the media has made all parents aware of the dangers of trusting clergy members, scout leaders, coaches, etc, very few parents allow their children to be alone with other adults.  In the past, priests had much more access to children because their parents trusted the clergy.

And finally, I find the argument that they didn’t know any better than to cover-up and shuffle these men around because of the general cultural context at the time ridiculous.  You can’t tell me that ANY parent who was informed of the fact that Fr. Joe had sodomized little boys and girls in his last parish, but—not to worry!—he went through a summer counseling program and is perfectly suited to running the altar boy training at his new parish, would not have been outraged, be it 1950 or 2010.  People with common sense have always known that sexual offenders should not be trusted alone with those who are unable to protect themselves, even if these sexual offenders were so-called “cured”. The bishops should have cared more about the safety of children than the reputation of the Church.  They did not do their brother priests any favors, either, by putting them in repeated situations that were serious occasions of sin for them, allowing them to fall repeatedly into deeper sin by sodomizing and raping more and more children along the way.  Nor did they do the reputation of the Church any favors by “preventing scandal” and shuffling the pervert priests around.  Instead they have heaped shame and much worse scandal upon our Church.

The hierarchy have learned the hard way that the old ways of cover-up and silence don’t work in this age of information.  I truly believe that if it weren’t for the internet (a way for victims to share information and discover that they weren’t the only ones so abused) and other forms of modern communication, our Church hierarchy would still be in the market of cover-up and shuffling predators. 

Thank God for the internet and for the outing of this great evil in our Church.  Now, if only our hierarchy would quit pointing the finger at everybody else as the reason for its problems, perhaps there is a chance a true reform and repentance.  I do believe Pope Benedict is doing all he can considering the corruption endemic to the system within which he is operating.  I pray for his continued strength and well-being during what must be a very difficult period for him indeed.

Thanks for this farce in 12 parts.

http://www.bishop-accountability.org/

THIS IS WHAT EVERY CATHOLIC SHOUL READ

And the propaganda continues!

The excuses, denials and minimizing continues!  I second Lionel’s recommendation.  Visit the Bishop Accountability website to get the facts.

What an insult this editorial is!  Let’s not forget that the Register is owned by the Legion of Christ.  Their founder was the biggest fraud ever perpetrated against the Church.  They have a vested in interest in spinning.  We are not at the end of this crisis, but in the middle of a maelstorm with no end in sight.  Just the extent of Maciel’s pansexual abuse, drug addiction, incest, lavish bribes to high Church officials will take years to sort out.  The Register used to be a respectable Catholic journal util the Legion bought it.  It is nothing but a shameless propaganda organ more in the tradition a Kim Jon Il or Fidel Castro than the Lord who said ” the truth will set you free!”

These talking points are obviously straight from the Church’s latest PR firm.  How much of our donated money did the pope and bishops waste on this lame spin job?  I’ll bet most mothers won’t let their children go on an overnight trip with any priest, despite what has been written on this web site.  Don’t forget, the Pope is now materially involved in the cover-up, and he managed it from the Vatican for years.  How can this list of weak arguments dismiss that horrid reality?

I will give credit to this paper on one point - they accepted and published the comments above. Other than that this is the most incredulous pile of junk I have ever read. What does number 9 have to do with anything? Unrelated events?! Then why so many bishop Dolan? Did it ever occur to you that they may be related and you ought to try to find out? Of course not - you pronounced them to be unrelated so, because you are a bishop, they must be unrelated. You have spoken.

Why are these priests above the law? Because, oh the scandal, should the lay world be made aware of this dirty secret. So a pedophile is removed from his duties, has therapy, is “cured”, and then goes back to his own personal Disney World to frolic with the children. Until there is no tolerance within the church, until the higher-ups are willing to give up their own, I will have no tolerance for the Catholic church. Amen.

War tactics should be applied to Vatican City ¬– where the devil takes his holiday
By Mike Ference

Every day brings new evidence that we no longer live in a civilized and principled society. The worst part, it usually concerns another case of sexual misconduct involving a Catholic priest, young children and a church hierarchy that helped to cover up the case.

The Catholic clergy sex abuse scandal continues to spiral out of control from one country to the next; while the pope still refuses to solve the problem. It’s now clearly documented that across the globe tens of thousands of innocent girls and boys have been sexually violated – used and abused as sex toys by Catholic clergy, yet, nothing has or will ever be done. Thousands of pedophiles, former Catholic clerics, roam the world and no one really knows where these monsters are, how many victims they have left behind or how many more will suffer from priests trained to sexually abuse since their seminary days.

So — what should be done now that we know it’s a pattern of terror orchestrated by the Catholic Church hierarchy and repeated everywhere the dysfunctional sex freaks have established a church, school, hospital or other institution; then covered up in every layer of the all male run society – even by the pope, himself. Given the level of wreckage and anguish caused in the lives of so many people, it seems appropriate to look to the war on terror for a model strategy.

A first prong of attack at the Vatican might involve a Special Forces unit made up of highly skilled and trained military personnel capable of tracking down and obtaining confessions from any current or former priests accused of acts of sexual abuse against children. If rights are violated, if military personnel sometimes go a little too far, so be it. The Catholic Church had ample opportunity to fess up and repent. Those incapable of civilized behavior shouldn’t expect the rights and privileges of civilization.

A deck of cards can be created to help identify hard-to-find priests as well as the disgraceful church leaders who permitted, and in essence, condoned the sexual abuse of young children. Photos of the most deviant and reprehensible church officials accompanied by a list of their offenses will encourage us all to do our patriotic duty in helping the authorities track down suspected priest-terrorists or at least be able to identify the culprits as they come and go freely because their sins where covered up and the time to criminally prosecute has expired.

Another option would be to divide the world into territories. A color-code warning system would be established, alerting parents about abusive priests being transferred into their respective regions. Depending on the designated color for a particular region, parents would know whether their children should serve at Mass, go on field trips, or even attend Catholic school that day.

To aid this unique war on terror, a pool of money should be collected, not involuntarily from taxpayers, but voluntarily from those decent human beings who believe crimes committed against our children are sins that God takes very seriously. Some of the funds raised could then be turned into outrageously tempting reward sums for information leading to the capture of our targeted criminals. Once the rogue clerics have been imprisoned and forced to talk, I recommend that their confessions be given to someone like Steven Spielberg or George Romero. Hollywood writers and producers could create a blockbuster movie like Roots or Schindler’s List to serve as a bitter reminder that these crimes should never again be permitted to occur. Tom Savini could be hired to recreate the horror on the faces of child actors chosen to play parts.

Proceeds from the movie could go to victims of abuse and their families. And no matter how old the crime, compensation would be available. There should be no statute of limitations when the rights of children have been violated by those who lived much of their adult lives perched on a pedestal heightened by the trust of innocent and vulnerable believers. In fact, I would extend compensation to the second and perhaps even third generation of sufferers. It would certainly include siblings denied the experience of growing up with a brother or sister untraumatized by such abuse. And since crimes of abuse tend to echo, it would extend to the victims of the victims as well.

If all else fails, is it any less rational to declare war on the Catholic Church as part of a war on child abuse than it was to declare war on Iraq (which had nothing to do with 9/11 or Al-Qaeda and apparently had no weapons of mass destruction) as part of a war on terror? How many innocent children have been verifiably lost to this menace — and how many more will be lost if we don’t make a preemptive strike?

As horrific as sexual abuse by priests may be, the perpetrators might merit a more forgiving place if only their superiors had the courage to do the right thing. For a few, counseling and close supervision might have been enough to prevent future abuses. Others clearly required something more intensive — a mental hospital or a prison.

But repeated abuse, as well as willfully hiding the crimes and the criminals — as far as I can see, this brings us much closer to the realm of mortal sin. And the sinners include not just the church hierarchy, but also attorneys who ill-advised parents not to buck the system and take on the Catholic Church, or may even have provided inside information to thwart legitimate cases against the church, law enforcement officials who may have thought it best to warn church officials of pending investigations, and janitors, housekeepers, teachers, and employees of the Catholic Church who kept silent because of concerns about a paycheck, a 401K, a pension, or a fear of standing up to church authorities. God has a place for everyone — and if you abuse children or protect the abusers of children, we can only hope that your place is called hell. 

Mike Ference has been an advocate for clergy sex abuse survivors for over 21 years. He has written about the problem and works with clergy abuse families in Pennsylvania and across the United States helping victims work through the corrupt bureaucratic maize of injustice. He attributes much of the problem to corrupt leaders in government, organized crime and Catholic Church hierarchy more concerned about power and money than the salvation of souls. He has labeled the commonwealth of Pennsylvania a Pro-pedophile state where Catholic clergy sex abuse cover-ups are still the norm. Mike can be reached at 412-233-5491 or email him at .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address).

Glad to read the comments here, by people with functioning brains, who have not been hoodwinked by the Bish Club and their apologists/enablers/promoters.

A few years ago, the international criminal enterprise known as the RCC would have gotten away with all this. Thank Gawd for the internet!!!!

More propaganda and spin to smooth over what is really going on here. The factthat these people can infer that there never was any cover up borders on lunancy. Again the spin doctors are at work. I’m sure they conslted with that big mouth from the Catholic League on this one. They need to face the facts that there were numerous coverups and these coverups extended to the upper echilons of the hierarchy. Why don’t you start being honest for a change?

WOW!!!  What is really frightening is that the authors believe what they have written!!!  Any one of these points could be refuted with facts - NOT TAKEN OUT OF CONTEXT!!!!  But one of my favorites is that the church is taking care of the victims!  HA!  The only reason why they are doing anything is because the victims were brave enough to come forward and tell the truth.  In addition, your figures don’t tell about the millions of dollars spent by the church on very expensive lawyers and spin doctors to try to prevent them from actually spending any money on victims.  But the laughable thing is that you feel the need to defend the church.  Why might that be????

So, which person from SNAP is writing all of these ugly comments?

Uh, Julie, i didn’t know that something called SNAP even existed until I read your post and googeled it.  Thank you!!  Now I’m aware of an organization that I will follow with support as they offer an alternative to this disgusting church spin.  I really can not get over number 9.  90% of the children they molested were over the age of 13!!!!  That’s meant to support the church???  Isn’t the age of consent 18???  Isn’t that rape???  And, again, when an adult has sex with a child, it is not an act of homosexuality.  It is an act committed by a deranged monster.

Very Simple this article - Twelve Things Every Catholic Should Know About BS!!! I am a Catholic and not one of your twelve ‘facts’ has a ring of truth to it. Who will save the Church? The People of God. Future Women Priests. Married Priests. NOT the current Old Boys Club of ‘Gypsies, Tramps & Thieves’!!!

John, You are full of it. And just because this article is not completely vicious and biased against the Catholic Church does not mean it is not giving facts. Are you calling the author a liar?

Every Catholic should also read this link:
http://www.reformation.com

No, i’m not calling the authors out-right liars, but they are using extremely weak claims to make their cause.  This is the COMPLETE problem with this entire circumstance.  It’s the cover ups, it’s the excuses, it’s the moving known criminals from one place to another where they were free to commit more acts of shameful crime on children.  Are you claiming that this did not happen???  For decades???  And exactly how am I “full of it?”  Nothing I wrote was untrue.  And I am a Catholic, attended Catholic school and have worked for Catholic Charities.  I’m not out to get the church.  I’m just SICK of these lies that make all Catholics look stupid and deceitful.

Julie, so it’s ok to molest anyone over 12 years old? So you agree with the Hollywood nomenklatura that defends Polanski for abusing a 13 year old? They use same arguments as these Church officials and spokes people: “but he does so much good”, “he is such a great director”. Same “ethics”. This is a shame.

Oh, I agree. Some clergy have done a tremendous amount of damage to a wonderful church. AKT, your argument is so ridiculous I am not going to address it. If those sick and evil priests had been practicing Catholicism, they would not have molested children. Remember, there are many more multitudes of hero priests who have given their lives so that others may live than there have been sick molesters in the priesthood. But you know what, no measures they can take now for the safety of children will satisfy some people. And you know what, you never hear about those heroes (look up Maximilian Kolbe). You only hear about the bad ones.

Julie. There are 2 sins that were committed. First, the minority of priest that hurt children directly. Second, those in authority that either did nothing or transferred these priests to re-commit abuse or were too slow to act to protect children. This is not high theology, brain surgery or rocket science. The fact that there were some deranged priest is not even the issue. Every big organization will have some deranged people. The current outrage is that those in charge will not admit their fault in not preventing this from happening. Is it that hard to say “we are sorry, those are the mistake we did, those are the people that were hurt, those the things we will do to fix the problem.” If they will not say this, how can we trust them? Number 2 on the list says there was no cover up. But just in the last week there was clear evidence of that, with the publication of Cardinal Hoyos letter to the French Bishop in 2001. This was not even disputed by the Vatican. So this list plain disinformation. Finally, they may be reasons why there was a cover up: to protect influential people like Fr. Maciel, and the money that came with him. And yes, I totally agree, the majority of clergy and religious are fantastic people, but they are beeing dragged down this mess because of a few arrogant people at the helm. We should pray hard for the Popes’ fortitude to clean up this mess. Enough already.

That’s not true Julie.  Of course the VAST majority of people who serve the church do so selflessly and have tremendous positive impact and help to those young and old.  Besides a few enemies of religion as a concept, and the Catholic Church in particular,I don’t think that there’s more than a few who are condemning priests as a collective group.  Again, it’s the hierarchy who hid these monsters and then let the prey on hundreds of other children who perpetuate the outrage against the institution as a whole.  There are many members of the clergy who I have the highest admiration and respect for. At the same time, there is one particular priest who molested me as a young teen.  And it’s not as if it had been, say, a policeman, that I would condemn all policemen.  I would, however, be enraged at his superiors for letting him get away with it so that he could harm more children.  The church is at a tipping point; if it continues to play down the damage that a few have committed, and abated, it will continue to be perceived as an antiquated, hateful and psychotically governed institution that needs to be eliminated.  I’m not confident that it can recover from this self-inflicted damage.

This article is stupid, embarrassing, and shamefully misleading.

I’ll make only one point: Fr. Longenecker’s comment that “it is unfair to judge events 30 years ago by today’s standards” is the height of cynicism and demonstrates perfectly why huge numbers of Catholics are embittered at the Church.

Sorry Father, you are killing the Church making these idiotic comments: Raping children was a felony even 30 years ago, even when priests did it. Obstructing justice was a felony even when bishops did it. Raping hundreds of children was committing multiple felonies, and makes the admonition by Jesus about the need for millstones all the more compelling.

When the Register lied repeatedly about Fr. Maciel, it was a sin. When the Church’s bishops lied about pedophiles they were transferring all over the place, it was a sin.

Shame on the Register for publishing this disgusting logic.

John, you are in my prayers.

Damn, Julie.  I’m only now looking at the site you posted for reformation.com.  Is your point to show that it isn’t just Catholic clergy who are pedophiles?  Of course they aren’t.  But do you mean to imply that it’s not so bad because “we’re not the only ones” who are doing it?  Again, this defensive approach make all of us look silly.  Can we all agree that ALL people who have sexually abused children, or, worse, hid the crimes of those who did, are truly evil and need to pay for their sins.  I just don’t get the logic.  If anyone else in charge of educating or helping a child, say a teacher or doctor, were found to be guilty of molestation they would be imprisoned.  Why is there a different standard for those with a collar?  Why is the priest who abused me and hundreds of other boys while he was moved from parish to parish and high school to high school (!!!!) not in jail, and instead still living in the same neighborhood I grew up in, where he committed his crimes, and is still near dozens of kids?

I thought the above article informative. There is no priest serving in ministry today who ever had a credible accusation brought against them. Does that satisfy people? NO, the church has paid 2.6 billion in compensation to people who claim to have been molested and made a number of lawyers very rich. I hope one result will be that fathers warn their sons about men putting their hands on them and that 14 year old boys are able to say; “Get your hands off me.”

And good grief!  The cases stated on that site focus on the amount of prison time the clergy from the other religions face dues to their crimes!!!  How many Catholic priests who have been found guilty by the church officials have actually faced time?  The petty arguments by those looking to shield the church’s level of fraud is truly amazing and so idiotically presented. I’m hoping that this will be my last word on this on this board because so much of this brings back horrible memories and shame.  But these unsophisticated attempts at dismissing the world’s outrage against these horrible, demented criminals is not working.

“There is no priest serving in ministry today who ever had a credible accusation brought against them.”
And how do you know? Its easy to transfer across borders.

“I hope one result will be that fathers warn their sons about men putting their hands on them and that 14 year old boys are able to say; “Get your hands off me.” “
How about telling those that transferred priests that did that from parish to parish to now admit that this was a mistake? Is that such a big deal to say we are sorry?

What do people want from the church?  They have paid out millions, they have admitted and apologized, they have allowed prosecution of priests.  Anyone who works with kids has to go through training and be fingerprinted. What do you want?  Yes, there were crimes and yes it was dealt with slowly and poorly. Prayers have been offered and counseling has been paid for.  What do you want from your church?  Yes, the media brought the scandals into the public eye, yes Catholics have left, and collections are down. How much more do you want than the blood of Our Lord?  He is bleeding over the sins of the priests who abused the trust of young people to satisfy their own sick needs. The sins of a perverse society has penetrated the Church.  How many people looked away, because of their own sins which stripe the Lord?

Darn it, mrherbaba, if only I had taken your advice when I was a ten year old being violently raped by a priest.  If only I had thought to tell him to take his hands off me, my entire life would have been different.  Great suggestion!  And, by the way, you are absolutely incorrect.  There are credibly accused priests serving in ministry.  There are also many credibly accused priests living freely and anonymously in communities, surrounded by children, free to rape again.

Julie,  How odd that you chose to criticize the victims of clergy abuse (SNAP) rather the the abusers and those who protected those abusers.  What strange values and priorities you must have.  It is not anti-Catholic to speak the truth about abuse by priests, to support victims, educate the public, and to demand accountability.  It is anti-hypocrisy, anti-child abuse, anti-injustice, anti-dishonesty, to do so.  I fear your anger and scorn are greatly misdirected.

Lisamom, yes, a lot has been done already, albeit reluctantly, at local levels due to outside pressure (e.g. US, Canada…). Yes, this is progress. But what the Maciel scandal is revealing is a new dimension, a new level: that people high up in the hiarchy (Holy See), knew about these horrors and either did not act or were slow to act. This is new, emerging information. Those are self-inflicted wounds, not at all like those of Christ: his wounds were inflicted by others. In fact, those wounded were children, the most vulnerable members of the Church. Those at the top of the Church hiarchy need to come clean and show that they are accountable. This is a very simple concept. Yes, that means the Pope, as the head of this hierarchy, needs to say that the Holy See inaction or slowness to act resulted in harm to children. That the Holy See is sorry, and that necessary measures are being implemented. Yes, as penance, the LC/RC crowd should humbly help the Church with this painful task. I am not saying dishing out payments to lawyers left and right, but help establish some form of just settlement mechanism for the entire Church. There are many examples of how to manage this. It’s a very simple gesture, that we are all called to do, when we transgress. This has not yet happened, and it saps the very much needed moral authority of the Church. Plus, it goes against simple justice toward those that were harmed.

“There is no priest serving in ministry today who ever had a credible accusation brought against them.”

See this link:
http://www.ucanews.com/2010/04/20/sex-charge-american-ordained-in-philippines

Yes Folks, In our day the Church of Rome suffers differently than in other centuries.  As believers we need to hold both our love of God and our concern for God’s church in faith and prayer.  We must pray for the victims of abuse, and for the accused.  We must ask our God to help us forgive as Jesus forgave in his own day.  We must pray that our faith in God and our concern for the church can live in our hearts yet another day.  These are not simple times, before we condemn anyone let us pray, yet again as we have been taught, “Ty kingdom come.”

Thank you National Catholic Register for posting these 12 things Catholics should know.  Thank you Catholic priests, nuns, and laity for staying strong and living as Christ wants us to live.  One thing that continues to be true; that is, evil likes to create noise and chaos, and discourage people so they do not to seek the truth, have hope, or choose to live and act morally.  I am grateful for the steadfast love of God.  I am also grateful for the Catholic Church, full of imperfect, sinful people like me, that does its best to model that love in troubled times.

It seems that many people choose to commit rash judgment and to indulge emotion and anger instead of truth. The Register editorial here is precisely accurate to the facts. Thanks editors. I would like to publish this on my own website.

“accurate to the facts”
Saint Michael the Archangel,
defend us in battle;
be our protection against the wickedness and snares of the devil.
May God rebuke him, we humbly pray:
and do thou, O Prince of the heavenly host,
by the power of God,
thrust into hell Satan and all the evil spirits
who prowl about the world seeking the ruin of souls.
Amen.

Thank you AKT as St. Michael the Archangel is my patron being a member of the Order of the Legion of St. Michael.

And indeed, the evil spirits of hatred, anger, rash judgment, unforgiveness, as well as the evil spirits of lust, among others must be thrust back into hell.

Yes, I agree, lets fast and pray for the Church, for the Pope and all of us, in this time on trial, that the Holy Spirit guides us. God’s peace.

There are child molesters in the public school system who not only haven’t gone to jail, but have not lost their jobs, because of the unions.  I saw this on a news station…..a whole story about the public school systems and it takes years for these people to be fired.  Should the entire public school system be taken down, because of it?

I WOULD LOVE TO SEE ADDED AS ANOTHER POINT (IF IT WERE TRUE):

Every local bishop is strongly emphasizing at regional and diocesan meetings of the clergy that it is mortally sinful to even think about sexually abusing ANYONE, that acts of sexual abuse are serious crimes against God and all humanity, and that every local bishop is asking the help of all clergy to encourage any priest to leave the priestly ministry if they are inclined in any way to sexually abuse ANYONE or if any priests have taken any steps towards becoming sexually involved with ANYONE, or that if any person in the clergy knows of any such priest, they are being encouraged to communicate such information to higher authorities of the Catholic Church.  (The problem will only get worse unless the root of the problem is addressed.)

How about you remove that big plank from your own eye before you attempt to remove it from your brothers.  SLAPP

This if you think back all came with Vatican 11

Thank you for these points.  I think it is very important to look at this unfortunate situation in context.  It also shows the double standard in the liberal news media and some lay persons that only look for opportunities to bash Catholicism.  But with the rampant abuse done in most public schools and in everyday family situations, the facts still shows that a child is safer with a priest than in any other institution. 

Though this does not excuse any wrong doings on part of church officials, it always amazes me that people forget that, like Peter or Judas that denied and betrayed our Lord, so do humans today continue to struggle with their own fallen nature.  Let us pray for not only our priest, but for all humans that suffer from any sexual disorders.

Victims want justice. (1) Permanently remove all the offending clergy that are directly of indirectly involved no matter when the abuses took place. (2) Turn all the guilty offenders to the authorities for sentencing. (3) Compensate the victims.  The clergy should not be above the law.

It amazes me how many people here believe the garbage coming from the media which has already been proven biased and void of any integrity. They are quick to believe as gospel anything that is splashed on the headlines, but when the Church and publications like this issue statements to clarify the truth, these same people start making accusations of lies and a global conspiracy. These people need to stop acting like a bunch of lemmings and start thinking for themselves.

It is absolutely correct that the problem is general. See:
http://www.nypost.com/p/news/item_IGmFG437dEYB9jg6CAY6TO
This is precisely why the Church should be an example to all, on how to be fully accountable for failings, and on how to implement robust measures to protect children. And yes, it should advocate for all children, before and after birth. Again, fasting and prayers, so that the Holy Spirit helps us that with Love, Truth and humility! ATK (AKT does not sound right!)

I love the Catholic Church. Every day the Catholic Church feeds more people, educates more people, clothes more people, houses more people, takes care of more sick people, and visits more imprisoned people than any organization on earth could ever hope to. The teachings of the Catholic Church are God’s teachings, without exception.

So how come you anti-Catholics never mention the Catholic Church’s many corporal and spiritual works of mercy? (Answer: you are too dumbed down by the mainsteam media to even know that it is happening.)

Ever think that if indeed you were able to shut down the Church in America, all of those free social services that she provides to the needy will go away, and your government will have to reinstate them at your expense?

And woe to you bigots who sit by and say and write nothing while the predators disguised as teachers in the public schools ravage children by the thousands every year and then you have the nerve to viciously attack the Catholic Church regarding decades old crimes of homosexual clergy.

In a real sense you are all hypocrites because you are supporting child abuse in the public schools with your tax dollars while looking the other away and instead focusing on the Catholic Church who now has the problem under control while the secular agencies and government schools and others supported by your tax dollars are actually TEACHING children to BECOME sexual predators with so called ‘sex education’.

It is time for all of you to get your heads out of the sand and better yet to SHUT UP.

Read about what the Church teaches. It does not teach that abuse is a good thing.  It is clear in its teachings that this type of abuse is a mortal sin and these priest will answer for their sins.  But trying to vilify the Church because of the sins of its members that are against its teachings is sort of strange.  They did not try and hide these things… they probably tried to keep them quiet in an attempt to figure out what to do like anyone would.  Think about it on a smaller scale…  if something embarrassing happened in your own family like this wouldn’t you keep it between you and your family until you came to a solution?  That doesn’t mean you support the embarrassing incident.  And if the Church did not handle it perfectly… well… they are human.  Christ gave the keys of the Church to Peter, the first Pope, who was a sinner.  Even Christ had a sinner amongst the first intended leaders of the Church in Judas… that doesn’t mean that Judas represents Christ’s teachings.  Come on… look in the mirror.  We are all sinners!  Repent.  Move forward.  Seek out the Sacraments, like confession.  And if you truly are up in arms about child abuse maybe the Church could be used as a model…  the abuse rates elsewhere are through the roof.  There will never be an exceptable level of abuse rates but the Church’s are certainly lower…  The Church is the one established by Christ and will be attacked by the devil and people who don’t want to accept the truth of its hard teachings.  Instead of bashing the Church, maybe read about it and come to see it is what you are looking for.  God bless all of you.  There…  I think I just lowered my blood pressure 20 points… laughing out loud.

I am thankful to God for my Catholic Church and the Gift of Faith which he has given me.  I believe we have forgotton that the Church is the Suffering Church, that is, its Membership is made up of Saint and Sinners.In the end we will all have to give an account to our Creator of the Good and Bad Deeds done in our Life and I pray that He will receive us with Mercy, Forgiveness and Love for our Human Errors committed against Him and Our Neighbor.  Blessed to be a Catholic.  Connie

OK…....PLEASE stop referring the pedophiles as acts by “homosexuals.”  Someone who is so consumed by his sexual attraction to a young boy to the point that he cannot stop himself from acting on this urge is not gay.  He is someone suffering from severe mental illness.  As far as teachers goes, well my abuser was both, as in addition to being my local pastor, he was also the head of the religion program at my high school.  His record of abuse spanned 30 years of incidents, followed by transfer to another school, followed by more incidents.  He started with me when I was 9.  He still lives in the same house that he lived in when I was growing up, three houses away from our old house.  While he is NOT listed on the national database of sex offenders, he IS active on of the Classmates.com page of one of the high schools where he committed his crimes!

“A shocking expose and practical resource book, i missed me after the terror, during the years of unbearable sorrow: trafficking the holy Spirit, by Alan Allen (Trafford-available May 15) includes testimony, church canon, documentation, healing resources, and a directory of clergy perps by state, country and diocese. Adult survivors of childhood trauma share non-graphic, personal stories stripping euphemisms of ‘child abuse’ and ‘inappropriate touching’ to unmask the terror perpetrated against them by sadists, psychopaths, sociopaths and the criminally insane hidden behind the clichés and collars and habits.”

Homosexual acts are perverted acts and children are sometimes on the receiving end. By dignifying homosexuality we are only encouraging child abuse. Let’s wake up.

Homosexuals deserve as much dignity and respect as heterosexuals.  And, please get your facts straight, so to speak, EmeraldGuards, the VAST majority of sexual abuse is perpetrated by heterosexual men. Wake up.  Are we encouraging child abuse when we “dignify” heterosexuality?

Christine: You are wrong, in the Catholic Church sex abuse scandal 3/4ths of the abuse is by homosexual men (labeled “pedophiles” out of political correctness). Their victims are mostly post-pubescent boys. Against a fact there is no argument. To learn the truth you must research the facts.

Emerald, Please reread my comment.  I did not say anything about the church abuse situation in my reply to you. Believe me, I am very well informed about the facts.  I understand that more boys than girls were abused.  I also know that one cannot blame sexual abuse on sexual orientation. The two are unrelated.  I also know that abusing a post-pubescent child is a crime.  Sexually abusing any person, regardless of age or gender, is a crime. And I am not wrong when I say that the vast majority of sexual abuse in general is perpetrated by heterosexuals. Yet, those who blame clergy abuse on gays tend to ignore that fact, as it does not support their argument that homosexual equals sexual abuser. Political correctness has nothing to do with this ~ sexual assault is sexual assault. And why do you ignore the thousands of girls raped by priests?  How do you explain the cover-up by the hierarchy?  Do you blame those crimes on gays too?

somebody above is posting as Bro.Ignatius Mary, OLSM+.  If this is indeed him, readers should know the following, from http://www.catholicculture.org—.

This is the official website of the Order of the Legion of St. Michael. The site is devoted to providing materials useful for apologetics, spiritual growth and spiritual warfare. The site extends its work through several mailing lists, some of which are restricted to members. The site professes loyalty to the Holy See.

The Legion claims to be an Association of the Christian Faithful established under canon 215 of the Code of Canon Law. However, serious questions have been raised about its status. It is not connected with the Diocese of Davenport, Iowa nor does it have any official standing or canonical status in the Catholic Church. The Order has changed its legal status repeatedly, incorporating first in Iowa in 1994, then dissolving there and incorporating in South Dakota in 2001, and finally dissolving there on December 30, 2005 and setting up in Iowa again on March 25, 2006, this time as an unincorporated association. The Order of the Legion of St. Michael claims to be registered with Dunn & Bradstreet and The World Wide Web Chamber of Commerce but neither link checks out.

John Paul Ignatius, founder of the Order of the Legion of St. Michael, claims to be a Catholic apologist, catechist, spiritual director, and spiritual warfare/deliverance counselor holding a degree of Licentiate in Theology (he doesn’t say from where). He says that he converted to Catholicism in 1992 and has had 14 years experience as a Catholic Spiritual Director. But as demonstrated in detail in our Weaknesses section, researchers have concluded that John Paul Ignatius is apparently Richard Lee Collett Jr., a sex offender convicted as recently as 2005.

Extreme caution should be used in affiliating with or contributing to this web site.

source:  http://www.catholicculture.org/culture/reviews/view.cfm?recnum=144

Emerald, a consensual act of sex between two people is just what it is.  An act of sex between and an adult and a child, regardless of the gender, is rape.  Don’t let you homophobia get in the way of “facts.”

I wish people would leave their comments and not use this as a forum! End of my comment.

Christine: I would refer you to the book “Goodbye Good Men”. Homosexuality has everything to do with the Catholic Church sex abuse scandal. One important aspect of the cover up is the existence in the Catholic clergy of many homosexual bishops who covered up the allegations for very personal reasons, among of which is to protect their own homosexual lifestyles. One prime case in point was the Bishop of Milwaukee, Rembert Weakland, who paid almost 1/2 million dollars in hush money to his homosexual partner. The demon priest who beginning in 1950 allegedly molested upwards of 200 boys remained an active priest under Bishop Weakland’s watch, but your media blames the current Pope, who is innocent. Common sense dictates that a man who commits homosexual acts is in fact a homosexual. Perchance he may be bisexual. By referring to these men as “pedophiles” you yourself are engaging in a cover up of the truth. You can’t whitewash the sin of homosexuality and at the same time condemn clergy child abusers. In most but not all cases they are homosexuals because their victims are males. To try and say otherwise is an exercise in political persuasion. Also, I take offense at your freewheeling assertion regarding the “thousands” of girls who have been sexually abused by Catholic clergy. How about the thousands of boys and girls molested each year by your public school teachers? What may I ask have you done in that sphere? Realize that you are paying their salaries.

THOSE WHO ARE WITHOUT SIN THROW THE FIRST STONE.

WHERE IS FORGIVENESS AND LOVE?

Everyone should step back and take a self personality check.
There are far more sexual abusers right in our own homes.
Mothers and Fathers who abuse their children and others, far exceed
what is in the Preisthood.
Just take a look at homosexuality and lesbianism this is an abuse which
is just as bad if not worse than all other abuses, and a mortal sin against God’s Laws.
We need to get rid of all pornography, immodest dress, and bad movies and language
from our society to rid ourselves of the CAUSE of our sins in the world.
We also need to rid ourselves of the sins of abortion, euthanasia, and
suicide, all sins of the flesh are taking us to hell if we do not stop
these horrible sins, just one leads to others; we need the Ten Commandments
and God’s Church, but we are all SINNERS and He who is without sin throw
the first stone, but take a good look within before you do.
PRAY, FAST AND SACRIFICE TO RID OURSELVES OF THE WORLD,
THE FLESH AND THE DEVIL for the time is upon us for the purification for
God’s Will to be done on earth as it is in Heaven. God forgive us all and help us
to forgive one another as You would have us do. Not our will but Yours, O God
be done. Amen

Emerald:  One more time. . . Homosexuals are attracted to people of the same gender. Pedophiles sexually abuse children. 

You consider homosexuality a sin.  Many others do not share your believe system. I do know that sexually abusing a child is a crime.  That is not my personal believe; it is the law. Your “spiritual” beliefs are not relevant to the discussion of crimes.

There is nothing “freewheeling” about my statement regarding the thousands of girls abused by priests. One example: SNAP membership consists of 9000 members, last time I checked.  Half of those members are female. Many victims of sexual assault do not come forward, and many clergy abuse victims are not SNAP members.  Therefore, they remain uncounted in the “official” numbers. And, many more clergy abuse victims, both male and female, are now coming forward around the world.  I’m relieved that you are offended by my statement regarding the abuse of girls as it is a very offensive act (and that’s an understatement).

I agree, teachers abuse kids too. Your point?  We’re discussing clergy abuse. Is abuse by priests less wrong because abuse takes place in other institutions? And I have yet to see a cover-up of abuse in schools which comes close to the cover-up in the church. If “they do it too” is your best defense, I suggest you come up with another one.

You mention “my” media.  I am not a journalist.  But I am well-informed on this topic; I see much of the media reporting facts based on documented evidence.

Finally, not that I owe you any explanation, but since you asked: I have been involved with rape crisis counseling; rape and sexual assault education; and victim advocacy for over 30 years.  And much of my work has been done in schools.

Here’s a twist on the whole pedophilia thing and why it has been institutionalized in the church. There is or until recently was a sin called a reserved sin.

This is from the Baltimore Catechism:
Note in 724 that the priest is a “true friend” to whom we can confide our secrets, in 725 he remits the sin.
Now the twist is 730 the reserved sins. An example of a sin that is reserved is striking a priest. Say for example a priest rapes my child…and I strike him…which in some worlds might be a little divine justice. Now I go to confession and my sin is reserved … that’s right my sin is so grave that the Pope has to forgive it.
Now a priest rapes a child and goes to confession and I believe he is supposed to identify himself as a priest…and confesses the child rape, maybe multiple child rapes and viola…this is not a reserved sin. His “true friend” brother priest gives him absolution. That’s right child rape by a priest is not a grave enough sin to deserved to be a reserved sin.
Is this perverse? Is this not institutionalized sin…is not the Church culpable?
So who is being protected? An innocent child, a parent whose child has been violated or a pedophile priest? Protect the priest screw the child - literally.

This is the Baltimore Catechism:
Q. 724. What are the natural benefits of the Sacrament of Penance?
A. The natural benefits of the Sacrament of Penance are: It gives us in our confessor a true friend, to whom we can go in all our trials and to whom we can confide our secrets with the hope of obtaining advice and relief.
Q. 725. How does the Sacrament of Penance remit sin, and restore to the soul the friendship of God?
A. The Sacrament of Penance remits sin and restores the friendship of God to the soul by means of the absolution of the priest.
Q. 727. Does the priest ever refuse absolution to a penitent?
A. The priest must and does refuse absolution to a penitent when he thinks the penitent is not rightly disposed for the Sacrament. He sometimes postpones the absolution till the next confession, either for the good of the penitent or for the sake of better preparation—especially when the person has been a long time from confession.
Q. 728. What should a person do when the priest has refused or postponed absolution?
A. When the priest has refused or postponed absolution, the penitent should humbly submit to his decision, follow his instructions, and endeavor to remove whatever prevented the giving of the absolution and return to the same confessor with the necessary dispositions and resolution of amendment.
Q. 729. Can the priest forgive all sins in the Sacrament of Penance?
A. The priest has the power to forgive all sins in the Sacrament of Penance, but he may not have the authority to forgive all. To forgive sins validly in the Sacrament of Penance, two things are required:
1.  The power to forgive sins which every priest receives at his ordination, and
2.  The right to use that power which must be given by the bishop, who authorizes the priest to hear confessions and pass judgment on the sins.
Q. 730. What are the sins called which the priest has no authority to absolve?
A. The sins which the priest has no authority to absolve are called reserved sins. Absolution from these sins can be obtained only from the bishop, and sometimes only from the Pope, or by his special permission. Persons having a reserved sin to confess cannot be absolved from any of their sins till the priest receives faculties or authority to absolve the reserved sin also.
Q. 731. Why is the absolution from some sins reserved to the Pope or bishop?
A. The absolution from some sins is reserved to the Pope or bishop to deter or prevent, by this special restriction, persons from committing them, either on account of the greatness of the sin itself or on account of its evil consequences.

I am shocked (and thrilled) that the editors have published so many comments that are not glowing affirmations of what is written in this editorial.  That is SO healthy!  Congratulations to the Register!

I agree that Pope Benedict COULD be part of the solution - first what’s needed is to seek first to UNDERSTAND and to really REPENT - repentance involves change - not the same old, same old, business as usual.

While children MAY be safer in the church, priests are still having sex, both same-sex (yes, there are way too many homosexuals in the clergy, and they are practicing homosexuals) and heterosexual sex, as in the case of the famous Fr. Cutie.

There will be no trust until there is 1) acknowledgement that this is happening and 2) change to make the Church institution healthier. 

The Body of Christ is in great shape - as it always was.  It’s the church leadership that needs to listen and change.  Thanks for the opportunity to air my views.

Thomas Bavis: Your argument is absurd because the Code of Canon Law is what you should be consulting. The Baltimore Catechism is a book of religious instruction and is not meant to serve your purpose.

EmarldGuards….Maybe you should do a little online research
Reserved sins are a part of the Code of Canon Law

Christine: I think you should consult a good dictionary because you don’t seem to know what a pedophile is. Cases of pedophilia in the Catholic Church are relatively low; it is pederasty that is the source of scandal. Pedophilia is the wrong word, but it is the politically correct word, designed to protect the homosexual lobby’s efforts to normalize the homosexual “lifestyle”. And sorry but homosexuals and pederasts are often the same thing. My spiritual beliefs are very relevant to the topic at hand. Do you know what a “spiritual belief” is? In fact, all beliefs are spiritual since they are non material. Therefore your idea that homosexual acts are not sinful is in fact a spiritual belief. So the pot should not call the kettle black. My original point was that you are focusing on sexual abuse of minors in the Catholic Church while ignoring the much greater prevalence of it in society at large, especially in public schools and in Protestant denominations and elsewhere. I would contend that the reason you are focusing on the Catholic Church while turning a blind eye to the much greater prevalence of sexual abuse of children in the general public is because you hate the Catholic Church’s stand against homosexual acts, contraception, abortion, and ordination of priestesses etc. Your contention that the media is doing a good job reporting the facts is laughable, especially since the recent New York Times’ research into this matter has been shown to be sloppy and inaccurate. Plus the mainstream media err greatly by omission as they only report on sexual abuse in the Catholic Church while turning a blind eye to the much greater occurrence of sexual abuse in the government schools and Protestant sects, thus violating any true sense of proportion.

Thomas Bavis: Then why aren’t you quoting from the Code of Canon Law but instead from a book issued several decades before the current Code of Canon Law?

EmeraldGuard: To quote a line from a song: I’m afraid of what you do in the name of your god.

Christine: In the name of Jesus I pray and worship God, and believe in the Gospel, and it is a sad day when people like you are afraid. Realize that the greatest evils are not done in the name of religion. Hitler, Stalin, Lenin, Mao, and the others were not religious people.

Uh, Hitler was a Catholic.  And, uh, religion kinda played a role in why he got rid of those 6 million Jews.

Hitler was a Roman Catholic, baptized into that religio-political institution as an infant in Austria. He became a communicant and an altar boy in his youth and was confirmed as a “soldier of Christ” in that church. Its worst doctrines never left him. He was steeped in its liturgy, which contained the words “perfidious jew.” This hateful statement was not removed until 1961. “Perfidy” means treachery.

In his day, hatred of Jews was the norm. In great measure it was sponsored by two major religions of Germany, Catholicism, and Lutheranism. He greatly admired Martin Luther, who openly hated the Jews. Luther condemned the Catholic Church for its pretensions and corruption, but he supported the centuries of papal pogroms against the Jews. Luther said, “The Jews deserve to be hanged on gallows, seven times higher than ordinary thieves,” and “We ought to take revenge on the Jews and kill them.” “Ungodly wretches” he called the Jews in his book Table Talk.

Hitler seeking power, wrote in Mein Kampf, “... I am convinced that I am acting as the agent of our Creator. By fighting off the Jews. I am doing the Lord’s work.” Years later, when in power, he quoted those same words in a Reichstag speech in 1938.

Three years later he informed General Gerhart Engel: “I am now as before a Catholic and will always remain so.” He never left the church, and the church never left him. Great literature was banned by his church, but his miserable Mein Kampf never appeared on the index of Forbidden Books. He was not excommunicated or even condemned by his church. Popes, in fact, contracted with Hitler and his fascist friends Franco and Mussolini, giving them veto power over whom the pope could appoint as a bishop in Germany, Spain, and Italy. The three thugs agreed to surtax the Catholics of these countries and send the money to Rome in exchange for making sure the state could control the church.

John: You are wrong, Hitler was not a Catholic. Having perhaps been baptized, he rejected the Catholic faith as a young person. Once a Catholic does not mean always a Catholic. As far as Hitler’s religious beliefs, he was into the occult. None of his nefarious doings can be connected to Christianity in the least. Please do not smear the Catholic Church with inaccuracies like that.

It is interesting that amongst comments in this thread in favor of the status quo, at least one was from an apparent offender masquerading as religious. What other evidence do you want? How many more Maciel scandals will it take? Remember, LC has apparently amassed more money than the GDP of most countries on the planet. What are they doing with this kind money, other than try to silence critics and bye more influence? So to say that “..but we are all sinners” and that the problem will go away, is naive and ridiculous. We need to be vigilant, and make the sure the Church is accountable (we are all part of it), the same way we would need to speak out if at a PTA meeting if we found out that the county school commissioner keeps moving a few dangerous teachers from school to school, because one is the spouse of a wealthy donor. It’s that simple.

All clergy are called to a higher standard so greater the judgment will be for them who abuse this standard; including those who go to the extremes to cover-up the shame.  A “silent shame” that is safe to assume common among families where there is sexual abuse. We are family in our Catholic faith……..this scandal lies on all the shoulders who believe and live it’s teachings, So we feel the humiliation and suffer .  But that which does not kill you will only make you stronger right! History has proven this true with the crusades, executions, manipulations, ect.  So embrace suffering for its strength and not its weaknesses. We can only grow as a church from this experience.
On another note: Why does the media not report on this:
http://stopbaptistpredators.org/index.htm

John:  If you study your history you will find that Hitler was not a practicing Catholic and instead embraced Darawinism. The “religion” that played a part in the slaughter of millions of people(a fair percentage of them, Catholic by the way)was aetheism. Don’t believe me, read ‘Origin of the Species’ and ‘Mein Kampf’.

Instead of folks worrying about our Church (and the hierarchy), methinks folks should concentrate on Yeshua’s (Jesus’) promise:

AND THE GATES OF HELL SHALL NOT PREVAIL AGAINST IT!

  ...those historically bent, read about the worse machinations in the Middle Ages’ European Churches, (and indeed, even before).

  so those Christian Catholics who really believe, our mantra:

AND THIS, TOO, SHALL PASS!
  The fertile ground shall be weeded, the flock “pruned”.

  Yeshua is still in control of His church.

Pax Christi,

James Wesly smith

It is not at all correct to say that the crisis is nearing its conclusion. It may well be in the US, thanks to the actions of the bishops in 2002.  However, it is just getting started in much of Europe.  And in much of Latin America, Africa and Asia, the abuse continues as bad as ever.  Globally, we are in the early years of the crisis. 

Also, it is not much of a defense to say that 30 years ago other institutions also covered up child abuse. The Catholic Church holds itself to be morally superior to every other institution and everything else in society.Its leaders should ask themselves why the Church did not long ago take the moral lead on this matter.

Brother Ignatuis Mary OLSM is the convicted and registered sex offender Richard Lee Collett Jr.
See: http://www.catholicculture.org/culture/reviews/view.cfm?recnum=4255&repos=2&subrepos=0&searchid=610822

http://wwwiowasexoffender.com/

“11. The Church is taking care of victims. In 2009, the U.S. bishops’ conference reported that $6.5 million was spent on therapy for the victims of clergy sexual abuse.”

Has the Legionaries of Christ taken care of any of the sexual abuse victims of Maciel and any other LC priests who have abused?  It is hard to read this knowing the pain caused by Maciel, the founder of the LC (who own this newspaper) and not know that any sexual abuse victims have been taken care of financially for their therapy and suffering.

Where are the sheperds?  The article above is shameful.  Get out of your ivory towers.

The only reason the Churchmen acted and continues to act in this manner is pride.  Where are the calls for all Catholics to repent via prayer and fasting?  Why aren’t we called at the diocesan and parish level to cry for the victims and pray and fast for healing?  These offenders and churchmen who hid them should be prosecuted.  Instead we are given more prideful comments.  It is easier to stay in the dark than come in light.  Keep passing the basket around and hope it all goes away.

Forgive us our trespasses as we forgive those who trespass against us. We must ask God for the grace to forgive. If we do not forgive we cannot be saved!

Just because one car is bad does NOT mean that all cars are bad. Just because one doctor is bad does NOT mean that all doctors are bad. STOP generalizing and throwing salvation away. Without the Church we would NOT have Christianity NOR would we be able to be saved because we would NOT knwo Christ. Remember Christ established the Church, it is his bride! We need to pray NOT judge and condemn. What good does that do?

I am happy that this has been brought to light in the Catholic Church.  Sex abuse has been a dirty little secret that has been kept in the dark for too long.  It is right that the Church is at the forefront of the exposure of this scandal and begin addressing it in a public and humble manner.

Now on to the facts.  In the Church there have been 43,000 claims of abuse in 60 years.  Reports state that 68,000,000 people have been sexually abused in this country.  In the public schools, there have been 290,000 cases reported in 10 years.  Over 50 percent of abuse occurs in homes.  So, has the depth of the problem of sex abuse in our country been solved by the Church’s exposure and change in methods of dealing with this tragedy?

I think that the Church should be at the forefront of cleaning up this scandal among its members.  Now, how about the rest of society where 99 percent of the abuse occurs?  Are our families going to stop hiding and abetting abuse in homes?  Are teachers going to go to jail instead of school districts “passing the trash”, as they call it, to other districts?

We need to put heat on the media to take the same diligence they have used to expose this shame in the Catholic Church and attack this problem in the other areas of society in which it happens.  Families and public schools would be good places to start.  I just read about two women who were abused by their fathers.  These stories need to be made public and the abusers need to be jailed.  We need to work together to stop this tragedy.

As one who was sexually abused by a priest who was protected by a vicious, evil bishop…this article is insulting to the point of literally making me ill.  And you can’t be serious that “the scandal is nearly over”  Where have you been?  Reports are now coming in from all over the world on a scale too horrific to grasp.  If there are less reports it’s perhaps because ther are fewer priests.  However, the real reason is that it takes many years to build the courage…if one ever does…t report…to go up against the wrath of the Church…who considers the reporters not the priests the “problem” and the “betrayers”  I could say that the abuse I suffered from this priest destoryed my life…it would be far more accurat to say the disgusting malicious, evil behavior of the bishop ruined my life.  I’m sorry to say your ignorance in writing this is astonishing.

Do we believe in a Church that has existed and done wonderful things(as well as some bad) OR THE “journalists” that have a history of anti Catholic rhetoric and are desparate to sell papers in this day and age?  Nobody is making excuses for the harmful things these people have done, but it wasn’t a decree sent out by the Vatican to do this to kids.  Sure the Bishops and the Vatican were slow to react but now they are sincerely making a good effort to prevent further occasions from happening.  The past cannot be undone but the future can be formed.

The Church must be cleaned up.  It will be cleaned up.  Any priest who has abused minors needs to go.  Period.  It’s a terrible sin and a crime.  But when God starts a judgment, he starts with his own (cf. 1 Pet. 4:17; Amos 3:2).  Let’s hope and pray *it doesn’t end there.*  Let’s hope and pray that that God’s purifying love continues throughout other religious institutions, the public schools, our homes, psychologists’ offices and day care centers.

http://www.catholicleague.org/research/abuse_in_social_context.htm

http://archive.newsmax.com/archives/articles/2004/4/5/01552.shtml

I also hope and pray that people of faith are able to distinguish between the failings of some individuals in the Church and the truth and goodness found in the Catholic Church.  Our faith is not in men and anyone who puts his faith in men is doomed to bitter disappointment and disillusionment (cf. 1 Cor 3-4).

Our faith is in Jesus Christ.  We trust in the teaching of Christ’s Church, which is protected by His promises in and through his Vicar (Matt 16:18) and gratefully receive His grace -  whether His Body, Blood, Soul and Divinity (Eucharist) or His merciful forgiveness (Baptism/Confession) at the hands of His priests.

Sadly, while some appear genuinely and justifiably hurt and outraged in this combox, others appear to be simple haters who are merely looking for an opportunity to strike out at the Church.

Fortunately, the Church can and will absorb and survive the blows struck by her own priests, bishops, lay members **and outsiders** -  whether dealt justly or not because our Lord has promised it.  I know that she **will** rise purified and cleansed from this scourge, shining brilliantly again so that those who are lost in darkness may find the light that illuminates the path to salvation – if they but will to follow it.

I pray Gods mercy and healing on those whose innocence was destroyed by men supposedly representing Jesus. I pray that the Bishops who covered the abuse receive justice. I also pray forgiveness for those who blindly ignore FACTS and speak as if every priest is a pedophile when the FACTS show its a minority, may this minority receive judgment and be purged from the church, God help and heal their victims and God be with the VAST majority of good priests who are treated like !@#$% by secular society and because of their collar are lumped in with evil pedophiles.
http://hamptonroads.com/2008/07/proud-be-catholic
In the Usa priests are scrutinized beyond belief, and I hope and pray the same guidelines are put in use throughout the world. May the victims receive healing and justice. I would be filled with anger if such a thing was done to me and can only imagine what sufferings victims have to endure, there is no excuse for the satanic actions of the minority of priests, may your wounds somehow be healed.
However it seems obvious that no apologies, no amount of payouts, the Pope shedding tears, new anti abuse programs, if the Pope shot himself in the face ,,, NOTHING NOTHING ABSOLUTELY NOTHING will stop the media from making sure All catholic priests are viewed as abusers. God have mercy on those who JUDGE the innocent with the guilty, You will be judged as you have judged.
Lets destroy the CRIMINAL school system which abused thousands and lets ASSUME that most Fathers and uncles are abusers and get rid of the evils of marriage. (most abusers are married) according to the logic of many here you would be crazy to leave your child with a married man or a school teacher.
http://www.lifesitenews.com/ldn/2010/apr/10040101.html
Justice for the guilty (those who abused and those who covered it), healing for the victims by the satanic minority and encouragement, perseverance and strength for the overwhelmingly good priests.

The light shines on in the darkness and the darkness will never overcome it

I never leave comments, this is the first and please don’t be offended. I think it can be informative and can be healthy to view peoples opinions but don’t offend each other or argue about who is right or wrong. All we can do is pray, pray, pray and Our Heavenly Father with take care of this.  Don’t allow the evil one to separate the faithful .....that’s exactly what he wants.  May God Be with us all in these terrible hard times. God Bless you all.

1.  I don’t really believe it’s over.  Most kids/teens/adults caught in the deceit of an abusive relationship with a priest still wouldn’t be able to talk about it for years.  Add to that the fact that the problems are SO MUCH MORE than pedophilia; that is just one facet of the problem, which goes into abuse of power and clericalism.
2. There were local cover ups.  The priests, bishops continue to cover up or at the very least ignore (fail to recognize) abuses of power.
3. Reporting criminal behavior to the police would have been the right thing to do, and suffer the publicity if it was a consequence of doing the proper action for a criminal.
4. Pope Benedict XVI may be part of the solution.  I hope so; time will tell.
5. Bunk, the Church is surely not leading the charge in addressing the tragedy of sexual abuse - pure bunk. If Virtus and Safe environment training are the answer, ask most who have gone through training - it’s a farce done to protect the Church from future legal ramifications. 
6. name it.  Twenty years ago, they were supposed to be going through rigorous psychological screening, and probably longer than that.  Now it is said, social science and psychology didn’t realize, so is the Church depending on current standards in psychology?  And will they use the same excuse in the future when some other problem was ignored, covered, part of the Church hierarchy’s strong denial system?
7.  That doesn’t excuse anyone; it merely shows that as a society, we don’t value groups of people, especially children and teens,  women, others.  Unfortunately, the all male Church hierarchy filled with clericalism is more prone to this than the general society; vastly differing from the people Jesus called us to be.
8. That goes against basic logic to argue the because 85% of abusers are family or friends, that makes people ‘safe’ with a priest.  How about the fact that abuser priests ingratiate themselves as family friends then abuse?  How about that fact that abuser priests may very well abuse family members (nephews, nieces, cousins)? Priests are in that 85% number.
9.  This implies it’s not so bad after a person reaches 13 yrs or older?? That is just very sick to think someone can be ‘of age’ to be abused by a priest.
10.  this implies there is some sort of monitoring and accountability.  The church hierarchy DOESN’T monitor its priest or bishops!  Look at the CA priest who was supended and moved to his little cottage, only to abuse in a more cloaked and secret setting.  No one monitored him, did they?  Or did they monitor and deny what was happening?
11.  No money will EVER make up for the damage the victims received.  NO way can the destroyed faith in the Church ever really be healed on this earth.  The lawyers are the ones who made any real dollars on class action suits anyway.
12.  Of course, this is true.  Yet, it seems to be used as an excuse here.
A defensive posture taken by the Church over pedophilia and the rest does not heal or reconcile anyone to the Church.

I must agree with some of the other commentators above, we are in no way over or near the end of this crisis. To see the author quote Archbishop Dolan is a joke. I am from Milwaukee. Archbishop Dolan left every last person in place from Archbishop Weakland’s time. He continued to allow priests who were sexually active with teenaged boys to function. That he is in New York today does not inspire any confidence that this crisis is “over.”

Dear Betty,
While prayer may be helpful, we need a lot more than prayer.  Action is needed.  Justice is needed. Passionate discussion is needed. Outrage is appropriate. We can’t leave it up to “the heavenly father” to take care of this. This mess was created by men and needs to be taken care of by men (and women).  Blessings to you as well.

BJM:  We DO need to judge and condemn those who sexually abuse kids and those who covered up that abuse.  Anger is appropriate. These horrific crimes need to be judged and cannot be tolerated. And please do not tell victims to forgive.  Each victim is on his/her own healing path.  They will forgive if and when they decide to do so.  It’s none of your business.  But it is your business to seek justice and accountability from your church leaders.

I’m a survivor and somewhat involved with ReGAIN; I can only agree with #4 and #10.
#4: BXVI has worked very hard for almost 10 years now, to stop the “filth” of the Church; I commend the NCR here for acknowledging that.  Benedict did this despite the efforts of Cardinals Sodano, Rode’ and Dziwisz and other pet cardinals of that pervert Maciel.

#10: Since laicizing an offender only allows him to go free on the streets, the punishment given to Maciel (and my own childhood pastor: http://www.bishop-accountability.org/features/FaithBetrayed.htm) can be an effective one.  If Legion leaders had only obeyed the Vatican in 2006, and retired Maciel to a private life of prayer and penance, he might have repented at the end of his life.  As it is, only a few people like me prayed that he would repent, during his final year of life, and the accounts of his final days tragically show that he might very well have ended up in Hell.

  Those who don’t like hearing the truth or the pain of the victims, should keep in mind that forgiveness has to do with Hell, not jail.  When we forgive, we can only will that our assailant repents so that he can spend eternity in Heaven with God; it’s only after he repents that God can forgive him: Often, it’s only in paying a temporal price for crimes, that the unrepentant are jolted into recognition of the gravity of their sins.  JPII forgave his attacker but did not seek to have him released from prison.  Which shows love, to spare the child molester from embarrassment, or to confine him so that he can’t sin again?

#1 is just plain wrong.  The smoke of Satan is beginning to clear from the US part of the Church but only beginning to come out in the rest of the Church.  Myopia isn’t helpful.

#2, #3, #7, #8, and #9 are completely irrelevant:
#2 and 3:“Global cover-up”, whether it’s true or not, wasn’t the problem so much as diocesan cover-ups: bishops shuffled abusive priests around parishes which resulted in priests having anonymity and a fresh batch of trusting victims.  I really wouldn’t have cared that it wasn’t front page news every time a bishop sent an abusive priest to a retirement home, never to come out, if that’s what had happened!

#7: Substitute any other crime for “Child sexual abuse” in the title and the response is and should be “Big whoop, we’re SUPPOSED to be different, better”. 

#8 and 9: Similar response here.  Which do we want: that priests shouldn’t be looked up to, or that priests should be held to a higher standard?  If we hold priests to a higher standard of behavior, then it IS bigger news when one falls.  Three of my eight children attend some form of public school; I don’t have very high expectations of their teachers’ morality.  I would be upset if one of their teachers turned out to be a child molester, but it wouldn’t be nearly as damaging.  What if a child molested by a scout leader, had a lifelong aversion to scouts and kept her children out of scouts?  What if a child molested by a school teacher, had a lifelong aversion to schools, and insisted on homeschooling her children?  What if a child molested by a priest, developed a lifelong aversion to the Catholic Church, and kept her children away from the One, Holy, Catholic, Apostolic Church?  Isn’t the last one more tragic?  More of a crisis?

Pat Buchanan explains that there is more to the recent backlash against the Catholic Church, and especially the Pope, than you realize: If there was any doubt that hatred of and hostility toward the Catholic Church persists, it was removed by the mob that has arisen howling “Resign!” at Pope Benedict XVI. To American Catholics, the story of pedophile priests engaged in criminal abuse of children, of pervert priests seducing boys, is unfortunately all too familiar. That some bishops covered up for pedophiles and seducers and enabled corrupt clergy to continue to prey on boys was equally disgraceful. But to American Catholics, this is an old story. The priests have been defrocked, some sent to prison, like John Geoghan, who was strangled in his cell. Bishops have been removed. “Zero tolerance” has been policy for a decade. Pope Benedict came to America to apologize for what these men did. And no one has been more aggressive in rooting out what he calls the “filth” in the church. And as the recent scandals have hit Ireland and Germany, why the attack on the pope here in America?
Answer: The New York Times is conducting a vendetta against this traditionalist pope in news stories, editorials and columns.

I believe in many instances reading comments against what the Chruch is explaining, is a pre-set mind set and nothing you read will make a bit of difference to what you think.  It’s obvious that you really didn’t understand what was written nor attempted to do so.  If your a praying person ask God what He thinks.  If your not then you won’t really understand.  You’re expecting much more of the church then you even would yourself.  That is what is obvious in blind sided negative comments!

All these negative comments are frankly and putting it mildy-anti-Catholic biased people who think that they are perfect and have it figured out.  Not!! Come on, THINK PEOPLE THINK! The gates of hell won’t prevail against the Catholic Chruch so give up your excuse for not going to church or your cafeteria Catholic mentality views. It shows big time and we know who you are!  I’ll pray for you to see the light because where you’re at is darker then what you are calling dark! It’s about forgivness.

“The New York Times is conducting a vendetta against this traditionalist pope in news stories, editorials and columns.”

...hum, who saved the NYT? lets think….oh, it was Mr Carlos Slim, the riches man in the world. oh, how did he become the riches man in the world? By owning companies like Telmex, a monopoly that over charges poor people that had to leave their love ones to make a buck to support them, but want to stay in touch with them. And who gave $$$ to the Legion of Christ, the owners of this paper: surprise, it is also Mr Slim. So, could this “NYT vendetta” be a way for Mr Slim to give a not so subtle message to the Pope, not to go after the Legion too much? Who knows?
Personally, I don’t have a grudge against Mr Slim. He is like any one of us: in need of Salvation. The difference is that he is an exceptionally ruthless and cunning businessman. The problem is not with him, it is with those at the receiving end of his donations. Attack on the Church? It is “attacked” from the inside by corruption. This needs to be cleaned up. Read Jason Berry and Gianluigi Nuzzi.

We need to pray and fast for the Pope, in these difficult times.

(BTW, this supposed “offender” that posted a comment can also be part of disinformation campaign, who knows).

I don’t necessarily agree with everything in this article, but there are some interesting facts and stats I hadn’t seen before:
.
http://ncronline.org/news/accountability/where-present-sex-abuse-emergency-located

Mary Deming,

I have news for you: many people outraged by the behavior of the hierarchy in response to the sexual abuse crisis are not those “cafeteria catholics” you so despise (as evidenced by this comment of yours: “so give up your excuse for not going to church or your cafeteria Catholic mentality views. It shows big time and we know who you are!”).  We are the mothers of large Catholic families, trying to raise our children in the best way we know how, hoping our Church will reform Herself so our children can be proud of the way She is acting instead of ashamed.

Only when Catholics like you start realizing that all these victims (those you call haters) who tried to sound the alarm for decades were actually FRIENDS of the Church and not enemies, will the Church be able to recognize that the most dangerous enemies of the Church come from within: those who take the beautiful teachings of our Church and twist them and use their power to abuse the sheep Christ put in their care.  THOSE are the enemies, not the victims, not even those despised “Cafeteria” Catholics. 

I have lived my entire life in very “traditional” circles of Catholicism, the very anti-thesis of the Catholics you despise, and I can tell you that MANY of us are utterly disgusted and embarrassed by the response of the hierarchy thus far. 

We do our Church no favors by allowing her representatives to behave in such unchristian fashion.

ATK: Mr. Slim, a Jew by the way, is using the New York Times to send the Pope a message about the Legion of Christ? That’s quite a diversion from the truth of this story, which is, as I said, the NYT’s persecution of tradition as found for almost 2,000 years in the Church founded by Jesus Christ. Tradition means chastity, charity, faith, hope, and virtue, things that don’t factor into the plans of the owners of the mainstream media. Nice try but it won’t work with Catholics in the know.

Thanks for a breath of fresh air! Its time we had a break from all of the war-mongering against the Church. The Church is for sinners, so we shouldn’t be surprised when we find people in the Church sinning. Still, the amount of bias and unabashed defamation of the Catholic Church today is astounding. The audacity of people! Less than 2% of the millions of abuse cases in the US were committed by priests. Your more in danger being with your family than a priest in this regard. Pray for the Church and the Holy Father for grace to weather the storms of devil and the world!

Hey Emerald!  Thanks for pointing out that Mr. Slim is a Jew!!  Now we can add antisemitism to your already established homophobia and defense of pederasts.  Anything else you want to report?  Presbyterians? Asians? Arabs? Women? Goldfish? Cooking utensils?

Mr Slim is of Lebanese decent and a Catholic. He, like is, is in the same boat: we all need Salvation. Lets pray for the Churhc and the Pope.

Hey John. Since when is reporting facts antisemitic?

Maybe if we all ignore Emerald he will go away.  He gets more hateful with every post.

Suggestion: The first on the list of those for whom you should pray are the victims. Then, on to the pope, priests, etc.  Reading these posts I am amazed at all the concern expressed for the poor clergy while ignoring (or trashing) the victims. How very “Christian” and loving of you all.

Greetings,

The members/ministers/priests of any Church are not perfect.  Each Church has had the same amount of abuse, but have no records that can be reviewed.  They simply “fire” their ministers, who then move on to other unsuspecting churches.  Whatever percentage of priests were abusers; the same or more existed in other churches.  There have been studies to show this.

Please do more internet research to discover the truth about this.  It does not reduce the error of any perpetrator, but it is not singularly within the Catholic Church.  Logic would clearly contradict that.

It is always important to get information from both sides an argument/discussion before a judgment can be made.  The Catholic Church is correcting itself publicly.  Other churches have avoided any discussion or transparency about this issue.

Let’s pray for all the people involved.

The problem is not Mr. Slim. He needs Salvation like all of us (btw, Emerald, why do you insist on your misinformation?). The problem is at the receiving end, e.g.: the high ups in the Church and us ”..its all for the good…don’t throw stones…we all are sinners” naïve lay Catholics. Over the last few decades there are new externally ”conservative”  “spiritualities”, of which LC/RC is the extreme example, that were approved it seems, because they give access to money and people of influence. The fact that LC/RC spirituality was used as a cover for Maciel to do his misdeeds and that these were known to those in charge, did not seem to matter. Why? Because of $$$. These “spiritualities” as just as bad as the worse of “liberation theology.”  But unlike “liberation theology”  they were promoted because they bring money and influence. This has a corrupting influence and needs to stop. Money is important, but it needs accountability.

The fact that the female victims are accounting only for 19 p.c. in the US clearly demonstrates that the problem with paedophilia in the priesthood is upon all a problem with homosexuality.
Suffice to read the book of Mrs R. Engel “The rite of Sodomy” to understand that a few high ranked of bishops and cardinals like Card. Spellmann, O’Connell and Bernardin who were either homo or at least bisexual predators initiated the scandal the US Church currently is undergoing. They appointed preferentially gay oriented men in their administrations and worse at the heads of the seminaries. In consequence, these last ones allowed gay men and discouraged the right ones, and so on.
So far as the homosexuals will not be STRICTLY barred from entering in the seminaries, the problem will remain even if it trends to decrease.
To the liberals who say that the paedophilia in the priesthood would cease once the priests will be allowed to marry, it is easy to reply that a wife is the last “thing” these priests are needing. That’s a nonsense: One cannot oblige a donkey to drink if it is not thirsty.

Ok Jacques,  If I am to read your premise correctly, I assume you extend that logic to claim that of the 19% of female children victims were abused by men, then it would seem that you are saying that to solve this problem, heterosexuals need to be STRICTLY barred from entering the seminaries.  Correct?

I’m so sick of hearing that we are all sinners, as if that’s a legtimate reason to excuse child abusers. Maybe we’re all sinners, but we don’t all rape kids.  We don’t all protect molesters.  Keep in mind, we are talking about CRIMES.

Good point, John.  And we should apparently ban heterosexuals from being around any children, at all, ever, given that the vast majority of child abuse which takes place is perpetrated by heterosexual men.

Well Christine, I just reread items 7 and 8 from the above article and now realize that children should also be prevented from being around “family members, babysitters, neighbors or friends,” as well as “society!”

Exactly, John, and keep them away from the media too, just to be safe.

There is an article this month from Investor’s Business Daily that says the real story is the American left’s agenda to undermine all traditional institutions (especially the Catholic Church) in this country with establishment media like the NYT and Newsweek leading the feeding frenzy.

Bob, Could you show us a credible study which indicates that there has been as much sexual abuse of children, accompanied by an organized institutional cover-up, in another religious institution?  I am curious as to where you got your information.

Christine: Check out http://www.reformation.com for the proof that you desire.

To Bob,
Your comment makes no sense, saying that each church has had the same amount of abuse, but they have no records to review.  how could anyone know if there was the same amount?  Then again, it is somewhat irrelevant waht otehr hurches are doing.  This article and comments are about the RC Church.  yes, whenever there is power, there will be abuse of it.  Power corrupts.  Yes, we are sinners, but that doesn’t mean we need not seek justice and accountability.  We must do so.

To Bob,
Each church has had the same amount of abuse, but they have no records to review- nonsense!  how could anyone know if there was the same amount?  Then again, it is somewhat irrelevant waht otehr hurches are doing.  This article and comments are about the RC Church.  yes, whenever there is power, there will be abuse of it.  Power corrupts.  Yes, we are sinners, but that doesn’t mean we need not seek justice and accountability.  We must do so.

The Catholic Church has made great strides toward solving its problem. The April 9 Investor’s Business Daily article goes on to say that the vast majority of abuse incidents by Catholic clergy occurred 30+ years ago. For the year 2009 the claims against 40,000 U.S. Catholic priests and tens of thousands of others working with them come to a grand total of six, amazingly small for an institution the size of the Catholic Church. Yet the hate is being vented none-the-less against the RC church. There is a vendetta against her.

Thank you for this article. While we can’t minimize how horrible all of this scandal has been, I do believe that the Church is doing the best it can to make things right. When it comes down to it, what’s done is done and we can only give so many apologies and so much money to try to make things right. The important thing is to make sure it doesn’t happen anymore, which is being done. My parish has all glass doors now and as a CCD teacher I had to be fingerprinted and go through a child abuse class that taught us what was appropriate behavior with children and signs that someone else may be acting inappropriately. I know that this is mandatory for all parishes in my diocese and I think will greatly diminish the odds of any more children being hurt.

Christine,

As to your question about other institutions and abuse, read these:

http://www.catholicleague.org/research/abuse_in_social_context.htm
http://archive.newsmax.com/archives/articles/2004/4/5/01552.shtml

And I just read in the National Catholic Reporter (not Register) that the Hare Krishna’s have suffered multiple bankruptcies due to lawsuits relating to sexual abuse.  Additionally, the Episcopalian Church has suffered the largest single judgment due to sexual abuse.

http://ncronline.org/news/accountability/where-present-sex-abuse-emergency-located

But they don’t get much coverage.

I’m sorry if I’m repeating myself, here, but it seem for some people you have to keep stating and re-stating that you deplore the sexual abuse WHEREVER it happens and that this is no excuse for the abuse in the Church.

Mike!  Hare Krishna’s…c’mon!  Why not roll out the Branch Davidians, the People’s Temple, the Moonies, Children of God….The Manson Family(!!) as having “issues” with sex abuse.  If that’s all you have—saying that the runaway kids who hand out pamphlets in airports also had issues that the Catholic Church is dealing with—very weak.  While the RC Church, which, like all religions, began as a “cult,” I think it lost that tag about 2000 years ago or something….

THANK YOU VERY MUCH EmeraldGuards,  Mike F,  Bob,  Jacques, Paul, Lauretta, Mary Deming—for your clarity,  truthfulness, open-minds, and balanced statements.  May God bless you.

Oh, Mary-Louise, you forgot to offer thanks and blessings to the victims of priest rape who have shared in these comments. Oops. Easy mistake, they don’t really factor into the discussion, apparently. God help you.

“Where else are we to go, Lord? Only you have the words of eternal life”.  Peter’s words, our founder, express our deepest longings - longings for a better, more attractive option, and longings to remain faithful.  Remember, we are the flock to be tended, the sheep. Let us not become the wolves.  There are already too many wolves seeking to devour us.  Let us pray, resolve to be better than those who shepherd us, if possible, and reach not for the chance to cast stones at those, poor, pathetic, sinners. Let us remain Catholic in all this and pursue the Holy, even in spite of it.

hot off the press ~ recommended reading for those who deny that bishops protected abusers:
http://www.foxnews.com/world/2010/04/22/colombia-cardinal-defends-churchs-abuse-policies/

http://www.bishopaccountability.org - click “abuse tracker” for more articles

Mike: You’re kidding, right? You want me to check out info from the Catholic League? I can’t think of any source I trust less.  The “league” is essentially one twisted, egotistical, delusional, cruel, hypocritical, homophobic, misinformed bully who lies, distorts, rewrites history and fabricates evidence.  And I’m being kind.

Dear GotNewsForYou: Thank you, thank you, thank you for your wise words!
This victim of rape by a priest appreciates you.  Now I need to leave the discussion.  My PTSD is being “triggered” as I read all the comments from those who continue to excuse, deny, minimize.  Many sexual abuse victims live with PTSD daily. For untold numbers of women and men around the world, this issue is all too real and is excruciatingly painful. I appreciate those of you who “get it” and shine a light on this harsh reality.

Christine -

I am keeping you in prayer.  I joined Voice of the Faithful when it first began (have since left the organization) but the BEST thing that happened to me when I tried to work on Goal ONE (Supporting survivors) was to meet so many wonderful people from SNAP.

Please take care of yourself and reach out to those that can help you with your PTSD.  I understand how that works now.  I have learned so much - and have great respect for A. W. Richard Sipe’s studies - that shed so much light on this topic.

I never had my head in the sand, but did want to focus on issues other than ‘supporting survivors’.  But with all the information now surfacing, anyone that DOES still have their head in the sand, they simply are not acting as Christians, certainly not Catholics.

Please read the Psalms.  While it’s difficult for this issue to be aired, it’s healthy to have light shined on it.  Good for you for realizing what you can and can’t continue to take in though, after your experience.  I will continue to speak for TRUTH.

I’ll sign off as:
Formerly a VOTF member - and a Cradle Catholic, who loves my church, and loves Jesus.  congratulations to the Register for allowing this to be discussed so openly.  Hope everyone learns from it - “Seek first to understand.”

EmeraldGuards, do they protect the Emerald City? Is that Rome or some place in Oz? Is that a subconscious choice of a name?

Mary-Louise: You are welcome! May God bless you and help you with his grace. The hate spewing forth against the Apostolic Church is gathering steam (as we see with many of these posts). It is the Church’s stand against contraception, same sex marriage, abortion, homosexual acts and priestesses that really compels these people at this time as they open up old wounds and use them as an excuse to bash the Church. Let’s stand firm and condemn clerical abuses of all types, i.e. liturgical abuse, bad teaching, irreverence, bad shepherding, bad gate keeping etc, but most of all predatory child molestation. Let’s also pray for greater prayer, unity, and love for the Pope. As Paul wrote, “Hold fast to the traditions you have received.” The traditions are vital. Vivat Christus Rex, tenete traditionis!

Emerald your logic continues to amaze me.  Men who prey on little boys, or even would be driven to do that, are not gay.  They are mentally damaged.  The clergy who have committed these crimes are not gay.  There is no lack of adult gay men that they could choose to have a relationship with.  Can you explain to me why a non-psychotic person would act out some sick fantasy of molesting a child, regardless of the child’s sex.  Or better yet, men who molest girls are not gay, correct?  How is that any different than men who molest boys?  How do you rationalize that?

John: Homosexuality is romantic or sexual attraction or behavior among members of the same sex. Age is not a qualifying characteristic. Since boys and men are members of the same sex, the term ‘homosexual’ still applies. Pederasty is a more descriptive term for a (usually erotic) relationship between an older man and an adolescent boy, but pederasts are a subset of the group known as homosexuals. Just as a bi-plane is a type of airplane, a pederast is a type of homosexual. I hope this helps.

Shannon, Emerald guard, too many others:
You seru=iously do not see the depth of this?  You tend to focus only on the few sexually abusive priests.  How do you miss the fact the the Chruch hierarchy systematically, thoroughly, chose to protect criminals ratehr than chirldren?  I mean bihops of all rank, up to the Pope.  they have betrayed the trust of all of us Church loving practicing Catholics.  And Shannon, you really think a few paltry sessions in a classromm will lead the c=church to properly truning over criminals?  Now the laity goes thorugh one more legal hoop to protect the Church, that is still the primary emphasis over protecting children.  Can anyone explain why then Cardinal ratzingeer wrote a secret letter to all priests and Dioces ordering them to report sexual abuse cases to the Vatican ONLY, and NOT to local authorities??  Under threat of excommunication? 

Signed, a faith loving, practicing Catholic who wants reform from the cletricalism that allows sexual and plenty of other exploitive abuse of power.

Never hurts to get a little encouragement from our Jewish brothers.

Please see below for a shot in the arm.

GOOD INFO TO READ THANKS TO SAM MILLER WHO IS JEWISH

Sam Miller on Catholics

Excerpts of an article written by non-Catholic Sam Miller - a prominent Cleveland Jewish businessman:

“Why would newspapers carry on a vendetta on one of the most important institutions that we have today in the United States , namely the Catholic Church?

Do you know - the Catholic Church educates

2.6 million students everyday at the cost to that Church of 10 billion dollars, and a savings on the other hand to the American taxpayer of

18 billion dollars. The graduates go on to graduate studies at the rate of 92%.

The Church has 230 colleges and universities in the U.S. with an enrollment of 700,000 students.

The Catholic Church has a non-profit hospital system of 637 hospitals, which account for hospital treatment of 1 out of every 5 people - not just Catholics - in the United Statestoday

But the press is vindictive and trying to totally denigrate in every way the Catholic Church in this country.

They have blamed the disease of pedophilia on the Catholic Church, which is as irresponsible as blaming adultery on the institution of marriage.

Let me give you some figures that Catholics should know and remember. For example, 12% of the 300 Protestant clergy surveyed admitted to sexual intercourse with a parishioner; 38% acknowledged other inappropriate sexual contact in a

study by the United   Methodist   Church , 41.8% of clergy women

reported unwanted sexual behavior; 17% of laywomen have been sexually harassed.

Meanwhile, 1.7% of the Catholic clergy has been found guilty of pedophilia. 10% of the Protestant ministers have been found guilty of pedophilia. This is not a Catholic Problem.

A study of American priests showed that most are happy in the priesthood and find it even better than they had expected, and that

most, if given the choice, would choose to be priests again in face of all this obnoxious PR the church has been receiving.

The Catholic Church is bleeding from self-inflicted wounds. The agony that Catholics have felt and suffered is not necessarily the fault of the Church. You have been hurt by a small number of wayward priests that have probably been totally weeded out by now.

Walk with your shoulders high and you head higher. Be a proud member of the most important non-governmental agency in the United States . Then remember what Jeremiah said: ‘

Stan d by the roads, and look and ask for the ancient paths, where the good way is and walk in it, and find rest for your souls’. Be proud to speak up for your faith with pride and reverence and learn what your Church does for all other religions.

“Be proud that you’re Catholic.”

Here verbatim without change is the first part of a story written By James Tillman and John Jalsevac that appeared in LifeSiteNews.com on April 1st.

Forgotten Study: Abuse in School 100 Times Worse than by Priests

WASHINGTON, DC, April 1, 2010 (LifeSiteNews.com) – In the last several weeks such a quantity of ink has been spilled in newspapers across the globe about the priestly sex abuse scandals, that a casual reader might be forgiven for thinking that Catholic priests are the worst and most common perpetrators of child sex abuse.

But according to Charol Shakeshaft, the researcher of a little-remembered 2004 study prepared for the U.S. Department of Education, “the physical sexual abuse of students in schools is likely more than 100 times the abuse by priests.”

After effectively disappearing from the radar, Shakeshaft’s study is now being revisited by commentators seeking to restore a sense of proportion to the mainstream coverage of the Church scandal.

According to the 2004 study “the most accurate data available at this time” indicates that “nearly 9.6 percent of students are targets of educator sexual misconduct sometime during their school career.”

“Educator sexual misconduct is woefully under-studied,” writes the researcher. “We have scant data on incidence and even less on descriptions of predators and targets.  There are many questions that call for answers.“

In an article published on Monday, renowned Catholic commentator George Weigel referred to the Shakeshaft study, and observed that “The sexual and physical abuse of children and young people is a global plague” in which Catholic priests constitute only a small minority of perpetrators.

While Weigel observes that the findings of Shakeshaft’s study do nothing to mitigate the harm caused by priestly abuse, or excuse the “clericalism” and “fideism” that led bishops to ignore the problem, they do point to a gross imbalance in the level of scrutiny given to it, throwing suspicion on the motives of the news outlets that are pouring their resources into digging up decades-old dirt on the Church.

“The narrative that has been constructed is often less about the protection of the young (for whom the Catholic Church is, by empirical measure, the safest environment for young people in America today) than it is about taking the Church down,” he writes.

Weigel observes that priestly sex abuse is “a phenomenon that spiked between the mid-1960s and the mid-1980s but seems to have virtually disappeared,” and that in recent years the Church has gone to great lengths to punish and remove priestly predators and to protect children. The result of these measures is that “six credible cases of clerical sexual abuse in 2009 were reported in the U.S. bishops’ annual audit, in a Church of some 65,000,000 members.”

As others have stated, but seems to be missed by some…There have been many cases of clergy abuse since the mid-1980’s. And if you understand anything about the psychology of sexual abuse, you know that it typically takes decades for victims to come forward.  Therefore, we can assume that victims will be coming forward for decades. Abuse by priests has certainly not “virtually disappeared.”

Petunia242: Abuse victims will be coming forth from the government schools in greater number than from the Catholic schools, as the evidence shows. Shouldn’t that be a source of greater concern for you and for us? Your taxes are funding public education.

Guard: So you’re saying that money is the issue here?  Oh, I see, my TAXES are paying for schools, therefore I had better ignore abuse in a religious institution? Rape by teachers should be a “greater” concern than rape by priests?  That’s twisted, dude. And, um, don’t Catholics give lots of money to their church?

Petunia, yes.  Mine began in 1975 and ended in 1982.  He wasn’t defrocked until 2005, 30 years after the initial cases were reported to church officials.  Following those initial incidents, he was relocated in several different high schools, including mine, where he continued his abuse of me.  I began speaking, anonymously, about my case less than a week ago.

Petunia: As many of these posts indicate, the Catholic Church for the last decade has made great strides in eliminating sexual abuse. The hierarchy have put a lot of time and effort into the solution. What has your government done to fix the problem? They haven’t even acknowledged it in a meaningful way. Given that sexual abuse of children is deep seated in society at large, shouldn’t the Catholic Church be seen as a beacon to light the way towards a solution?

Guard:  I am talking about abuse in the church right now.  Stop trying to change the subject.  And, yes, wouldn’t it be lovely if the church could be a beacon of light?  But I see a lot of darkness in that crew.

John, Glad you’re feeling ready to speak out. Good for you!  Don’t let those in denial, and those who blame everyone but those responsible, get to you. It can be like beating your head against a brick wall.  You’ve had enough abuse.  You don’t need to take this nonsense from those who will twist themselves into pretzels to avoid the truth. There are plenty of loving people ready to support you, Catholic and non-Catholic.  I saw above that you looked up SNAP.  That organization can offer you support, if you feel the need. If you want more resources, let me know.  Warm wishes to you on your healing path.

John, ps, my advice, don’t respond to Emerald Guard. It’s a waste of your time and energy.  (Though of course, I just wasted my own time by not taking my own advice!) You will never, ever, get someone like that to listen or understand. Can’t reason with an irrational person.

Guard, Even though I just said It’s not worth it to engage with you, I agree that the church has done some good work in addressing the prevention of future abuse.  But they’ve done an lousy job in dealing with past crimes.

Nuns were awful too…
http://www.nrc.nl/international/article2530647.ece/Catholic_nuns_also_abused_children

John-
Congratulations on beginning to speak out and come forward with what happened to you.  There are many people that will support you as you process this - SNAP being the first and the best.

Several years ago, I was at a San Francisco archdiocesan sponsored event (held by Barbara Elordi, the SF outreach person who is wonderful - very sincere) and although I am not a victim of abuse, the day held for survivors had a great impact on me, and it was strangely healing.

Even we average Catholics need to heal.  There is no trust in our church anymore.  Until the leaders begin to really CHANGE, healthy change that is Biblically sound and respects universal church Tradition, the church will not be in the light, nor be a beacon for others.

The Church MUST be held to a higher standard than the world - that includes the government.  Please let’s focus on making our Church healthy.  The world will then follow.  John - baby steps.  You are in prayer.

Thanks Ronna,  I share that hope that the church can regain the public trust.  I certainly have no hatred for the church—I have done work with Catholic Charities for years…the work that the out in the field workers there are the most amazing people I know.  I am just saddened by those who continue to try and spin the crisis by irrationally blaming others—gays, Jews, the media—make all of us look stupid.

Christine –

I was simply responding to your post above (Apr 22, 2010 3:39 PM), in which you asked for credible studies of other religions related to sexual abuse of minors.

Here is what I linked to, again:

http://www.catholicleague.org/research/abuse_in_social_context.htm

http://archive.newsmax.com/archives/articles/2004/4/5/01552.shtml

You can’t have even taken the time to read the links I provided.  You need not trust the Catholic League -  the article cites numerous studies done by other non-Catholic entities.  If you believe those studies are in turn flawed, then make your argument and prove your case.  I trust the fact that these studies were merely passed on by the Catholic League isn’t enough to irretrievably sully them for you.

I’m also wondering why you ignored the study of public schools to which I also linked.

John - 
Note above, I was responding to a specific question from Christine about other religious institutions.  1) Why did you focus on the Hare Krishnas and ignore the others mentioned?  That wasn’t “all I had”, as you put it. 2) I think your comparison between the tiny Branch Davidian cult and a religion with up to one million adherents (the Hare Krishnas) is a bad one.  I find much about the Mormon faith very strange, too.  But I don’t think that means we ought naturally to expect that they would have a problem with sexual abuse.  I think many people would find your flippant and derogatory characterization of the Krishnas to be ignorant bigoted.

3) In regard to the seemingly inevitable mention of Hitler and his Catholic background, I suggest you read “Salvation is From the Jews” by Jewish Catholic, Roy Schoeman.  Schoeman goes into considerable depth about this issue.  Your use of Hitler here is not likely to convince anyone of anything other than that you are just out to attack the Church at all cost - notwithstanding your recent denial of that above.

Mind you, I’m not calling you a liar, but when you pull out the Hitler card as you have, it doesn’t help your credibility.

Typo Correction:  “ignorant bigoted” (above) should have been “ignorant and bigoted”.

I would also recommend reading this article by Penn State professor Philip Jenkins – who is not Catholic:

http://www.zenit.org/article-3922?l=english

Philip Jenkins has written a thorough and well-received book on the topic: “Pedophiles and Priests: Anatomy of a Contemporary Crisis”.  If you’d like to research it more, you can order the book through Amazon.com here:
 
http://www.amazon.com/Pedophiles-Priests-Anatomy-Contemporary-Crisis/dp/0195145976

John,

I just read more of the mass of posts above and noted with deep sorrow what you indicated about your circumstances.  Subsequently, I have a great deal more understanding of and sympathy for your reaction here -  although I continue to disagree with you on a couple of things.
 
Please understand, however, that it is very difficult to ascertain who is telling the truth about their identity and their circumstances on these blogs.  Sadly, I’ve engaged in more than one discussion in which an individual made personal/identity claims that were false (fortunately, the website owners were able to determine their true identities through IP addresses in those cases).  And I have also seen that those in legitimate pain sometimes use the same invalid or unfair argumentation as those who do simply hate the Church and are simply looking for any available stick with which to beat it.  Once again -  it can be very hard to tell the difference at times.  As such, please don’t interpret my opposition to any of your statements or arguments as somehow conveying a lack of sympathy for what you have suffered.

I would refer you to my first statement above in regard to my overall view of the situation (Apr 21, 2010 11:53 PM). 

I sincerely pray God’s healing upon you and all those who have suffered abuse.  And I pray the Church -  and the rest of the world -  is cleansed of this foul scourge.  As a father with several sons, I ask you to believe that I despise what has happened in the Church and that I want it taken care of permanently.

God bless.

MIKEWF,
I appreciate your sympathy and your thoughts.  As far as any question of the truth in what I’ve posted, I’d be happy to explain in depth what happened on the phone or in some other forum if you are seeking legitimacy in what I’ve said above.  I can tell you exactly who the person who molested me is and several of my friends (among many others) is, his phone number, his address, what he looks like, the color of his house, the color of the boat in his yard etc.  If you’d like I could email you a photo of him.  I understand that people can say or make up anything they want to in a forum like this, but I promise you that I am completely truthful in what I’ve said above.

John,

I genuinely appreciate your willingness to share that information, but I don’t think it’s really necessary or appropriate.  I didn’t intend to suggest that you needed to prove yourself here or to me, personally.  I primarily wanted you to understand the difficulty people who disagree with some of your points here may be having in interacting with you.  I hope you are getting help in dealing with any injuries (emotional and otherwise) that you have suffered.  And in all charity, as you don’t seem to have sought or undergone any therapy to date, I do strongly doubt that these comboxes are a wise place for you to be.  Similarly, I would strongly discourage a soldier with untreated Post Traumatic Stress Disorder from entering into a combox discussion on war or torture. 
 

Also, just to be clear, my posts are under Mike F. and MIKEWF - I just forgot which username I had used when first writing, above.

God bless.

John,

I am so sorry for the abuse that you were subjected to because of a priest.  It is so shocking whenever one hears about these things.  My sincere hope is that this horrible crime can at last be addressed and not allowed to continue.

The media has done a great job of revealing the abuse and cover-up that went on in the Church about this issue.  I am grateful for that.  I only wish that now they would change their focus and investigate the other areas in which this abuse occurs.  The home is actually the setting in which most abuse occurs.  That is such a sad fact because the home is where children should feel totally secure.  Public schools are another area of frequent abuse. 

I hope that you are able to take that which has happened to you and use your experience to help expose and stop child sexual abuse wherever it is occurring in your community.  It would be so wonderful if you could help others to not have to endure what you were subjected to.

I went to an all-girls Catholic high school.  Last Summer, at a class reunion there was much talk about an elderly pastor that we all remembered, who they said would sexually molest altar boys when we were all in grammer school together.

I doubt this case will ever see the light of day - the pastor is long-since dead.  None of the boys mentioned are after money or even any kind of apology from the church.  So there will be no flack from this.

But one girl told me that when her own boys were altar boys, she would always accompany them to the Sacristy, NEVER allowing them to be alone with any priest.  She said one day her pastor asked her why she or her husband would always hang around, not leaving their sons alone with anyone else.

She told him that as a child, she had peers that were molested and she did not feel comfortable with leaving her boys alone.  He just walked away from her and he gave her the cold shoulder from that time forward.

Is that what we want in our church?  I think not.  Phil Lawlor recently said on Raymond Arroyo’s the World Over that in order for the church to build trust, it is necessary for the church leadership to do something that is against their own self interest and for the benefit of other people, the church at large.  That is love.

As Jesus asked Peter, “Do you love Me?” and followed it up with ‘Care for My sheep.”  The time for change is now and without healthy change, there will be no trust.

Dear Ronna,

How great that your friend protected her kids and told the truth to the priest.  His reaction was quite typical, in my experience.  One comment re. the men you know who were abused as kids. Most victims don’t come forward when they “are after money.”  And some don’t trust the church enough to go to them with a report. Most come forward when they feel “safe” enough.  Once a victim does come forward, they are often told that they are not telling the truth and are “revictimized.”  But, if you or others know of the abuse, my recommendation is that you report it to the church and the legal authorities.  Though the priest is dead, it will be on record. And if the men do ever feel safe enough to come forward, the church can be asked to be held accountable (legally) if they covered up the abuse. Flack can be made of this.  Don’t let it rest.

MIKE: Thank you for posting the links.  But as I mentioned in a previous post, I decided to drop out of this conversation.  My PTSD was getting triggered.  And I realized, yet again, that it is a waste of my time, focus, and energy to debate with those who continue to minimize, excuse, and blame others for the clergy abuse crimes. Comparing abuse statistics for various organizations serves no useful purpose when we are discussing abuse in the church.  It’s just another way for Catholics to point the finger at others rather than deal with their own mess first. (I am not including you in this group.) And BTW, yes, I have such contempt for the catholic league that I would never go to their link for any reason.  Asking a clergy abuse victim to trust anything the “league” posts would be like asking a black person to go to the KKK link for valuable information. :) Best wishes to you.

Hey Mike and Christine,
Mike I’m taking your advice. I need to stay away from these forums as the idiocy of so many of the posters makes me sick and depressed.  Hope you all come to a point where you can once again trust the church.  I hope I can, too.  It’s doubtful.

God Bless,  jk

John, Fill your life with positive, loving people who will understand what you’re going through and will walk this road with you. Healing is possible. You are brave for telling your secret. (BTW, is not a goal or desire of mine to trust the church.  I left the church 40 years ago at age 14. But if you wish to trust them again, I hope you can do that.  Just please be careful, as many survivors have tried to regain trust of the church only to be hurt over and over again.)  Godspeed.

Thank you, Maxine.  I supported SNAP survivors, and even went with one to the memorial of the priest that abused her - she is the mother of the priest’s only son, but he never married her, and in fact, the priest was having a sexual relationship with FOUR women at the same time, when his son was in adolescent.

Healthy change is to 1)heed the call of the 1/3 of the Milwaukee clergy that asked in 2003 for celibacy to be reconsidered - as Vienna, Austria’s cardinal said a few weeks ago, and 2) for Catholics to self-educate.  A good start is to read layman Edgar Davie’s book, “Illicit Celibacy and the Deposit of Faith” published in 2009 and on Amazon.com

Amen Julie!
The horror of this scandal should be adressed completely and rationally. It’s entirely possible that those in charge thought they took care of situations reported to them. I think the article is clear and consistent with truth. Did the rest of you somehow miss #2? I don’t believe anyone is denying the “horror” nor the “scourge”. The sick reality is that the abuse of children dates to the 2nd generation of the human family—it’s not the fault of the Church, it’s the fault of persons. Things were handled badly—were all sorry for that—but to deny that this problem is societal and exists beyond the boundaries of the Church is to deny both past and potential victims any true solution.
Every human institution houses these monsters—we should focus on protecting kids instead of helping snap/et al to re-victimize the children by using them as their own weapon to demonize the Church. Google some of the other faiths and sex abuse… You will be learning that this is not a Catholic problem it’s a crisis of faith and a failure in fidelity.

Natstelle:

I had a non-Catholic friend whose husband was Catholic and the couple had gone to a priest for marriage counseling.  When the marriage broke up, my friend continued to see the priest (dating him) and it soon became a sexual relationship.  She was not a “victim” in the true sense, as he was her re-bound man, and they remain friends.

My friend remarried (her husband is non-Catholic and while he likes me, he has NO respect for Catholics or for priests at all).

When my friend was dating the priest, she’d tell me about their dates, etc. and I remember being SO uncomfortable with hearing it.  I thought, “Well this is the ONLY priest doing this.” -  That is, until they started DOUBLE dating with the priest’s cousin, also a priest.

The cousin got his lady-love pregnant and at least he did the right thing and married her. This was over 30 years ago.

But I was 100% in the know and I kept quiet about it.  I keep quiet no longer.

Ronna,

The priest was her counselor.  I ANY other counseling profession, he would have lost his lisence for entering a sexual relationship with a counselee; she was vulnerable and he was in a power position over her.  It is a sick misogynist who would do that to any woman.  It is an abuse of power.

Natstelle, While you are right that sexual abuse is a human problem,  there is a particulary Roman Catholic problem about sexuality that has been ingrained and part of our history.  Having imposed celibacy causes certain neurosis of the sexuality that is likely to continue.  It includes the spectrum of women and girls abused by priests.  I believe it also includes thoes (most often women) who have been exploited by the Church in the person of the priest.  It is an outgrowth of the infestation of clericalism.

You say there was no globla cover up.  Yet there were and are local cover ups that span the entire globe.  What of J. Ratzinger’s letter invoking secrecy on this issue?

“It’s entirely possible that those in charge thought they took care of situations reported to them.”  This is outrageous - they let criminals go free, more than that, Church authorities ENABLED continual and serial abuse of children.  If that’s how “they” think it’s taken care of, would you trust “them” to care for you and yours?  If that’s the level of denial of Church authorities, then it is SICK SICK SICK.  If you continue to trust those with that much denial, you will develop your own sick symptoms.

For NASTELLE—-Wrong about #2.  Mountain of evidence that there was a global cover-up. (See http://www.Bishop-Accountability.org) Do y.ou honestly believe that “they thought they took care of the situation” when they knowingly, quietly, moved child molesters from place to place, free to rape/molest again? My guess is that you wouldn’t be using tame expressions like “handled badly” if you, your child, sibling or parent, had been repeatedly raped by one of these sick creeps, while the bishops allowed it to happen. And, they only started saying “sorry” when they got caught. They still fight every effort to have documents/evidence released.  How sorry can they be? And these “persons” you talk about are priests & bishops.  They cannot be separated from their church identity.  They consider themselves moral leaders.  Does that not mean anything to you? Their hyporcrisy is staggering. And, not one poster above denied that sexual abuse occurs in places outside of the church. The focus is on the church right now because evidence has been brought to light, reports have been released places like Ireland & more victims are coming forward. The media is reporting the news.—- I have never heard any victim of abuse by a priest deny that abuse exists in other places (& I know many such victims). They all want to protect ALL kids, and have ALL abusers brought to justice. SNAP is made of of people abused by priests, so obviously that’s their focus.  They’re not revictimizing themselves! Why can’t you trust & respect that they know what clergy victims find helpful. They are not “demonizing” the church, they are demanding justice & honesty regarding crimes committed against them by clergy members. Why is that so hard to grasp?

For some, no proof is necessary, for others, no proof is good enough.

Stereotyping is alive and well in many posts.  So is refusal to admit that there are holy and good priests in the Church at the same time that there are terrible individuals that have done evil while working in the church. 

Priests are still the moral leaders of the church.  The church is still a moral leader for Catholics, and one of the few moral leaders of the world.  That is because Christ is a the heart of the church, and Christ is the moral leader the church follows. 

It would be very helpful if posters would read the entire collection of responses so that they can learn what has already been addressed.  Otherwise the poster looks irrelevant, irrational, or just a plain pedantic stereo-typer.  But for some no proof is good enough.

When all the “good” priests start demanding answers from the “terrible” priests/bishops/cardinals/pope, maybe some people will be satisfied that actual moral leaders exist in the church. When the good ones express outrage, demand justice, & actively stand with victims, maybe some people will be satified that moral leaders exist in the church. When the church leaders stop trying to silence the few priests who have spoken up, we’ll be making some progress. I’m sure that Christ would be disgusted at the lack of moral leaders in this church, leaders claim to represent him. Face reality, the idea of your church as one of the “few” moral leaders is delusional and self-serving, Kathy.

One thing that is frustrating to me is the constant call to end celibacy and have women priests.  How would marriage help men who want to have sex with children and boys?  Married men with this disorder are still abusing children. 

How women priests will help is baffling as well.  We are now hearing reports of nuns who have abused children.  Would it be any different if they were priests?  I think not. 

We need to look at the real problem—a culture that has totally distorted sexuality and lost the understanding of the rights and dignity of persons.  If we addressed those issues then we might make progress toward ending this scourge.

Lauretta,

The Church has distorted sexuality, and tried to use it to control men, and especially women, for ages.  Having women participate/share in the hierarchical Church authority might just allow the gospel to become more real.  Having married clergy and women clergy will not eliminate sexual and/or poweer abuse from the Church, but it would enable some good and healthy peopel to more fully participate in the church and to dare to live the gospel message. Having an hierarchy that excludes the voices of women and belittles the vocation of marriage to ‘less than’ priest or religious is absurd.

Dear “S” -
Sin has distorted sexuality.  Rape, molestation, sodomy and other sexual perversions have been wide-spread since long before the Catholic Church was even founded.  The Church is endeavoring to restore the dignity and honor of man and sexuality.
While celibacy is a discipline and not a dogma (and is therefore changeable), you’re going to have to interact with the fact that our High Priest – Jesus Christ – is and was a celibate man.  St. Paul, arguably our Church’s greatest evangelist, was a celibate man who wrote very positively and persuasively about celibacy, going so far as to state that celibacy is preferable to the married state:
““To the unmarried and the widows I say that it is well for them to remain single as I am. But if they cannot exercise self-control, they should marry…”  (1 Cor 7)
And
“I say this by way of concession, not of command. I wish that all were as I myself am [i.e celibate]”.
And
““Are you free from a wife? Do not seek marriage. . . those who marry will have worldly troubles, and I would spare you that. . . . The unmarried man is anxious about the affairs of the Lord, how to please the Lord; but the married man is anxious about worldly affairs, how to please his wife, and his interests are divided. And the unmarried woman or girl is anxious about the affairs of the Lord, how to be holy in body and spirit; but the married woman is anxious about worldly affairs, how to please her husband” (7:27-34).

Paul’s conclusion: He who marries “does well; and he who refrains from marriage will do better” (7:38).
Read:
http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/03481a.htm

http://www.catholic.com/library/Celibacy_and_the_Priesthood.asp

So, S, an unmarried man is not healthy?  Hmmmm… I have been a Catholic for over 30 years and have not noticed what you are talking about.  Almost every parish I have attended has many more women doing things than men.  Sometimes the priest is the only male in the parish office—I have felt sorry for him! 

Marriage is not belittled.  I am a married woman and have never felt that the Church belittled my vocation.  Marriage is different than the priesthood but is invaluable for the mission of the Church.  We have a very important role in revealing the love of Christ for His Bride, the Church.  My husband and I have never had a lack of things to do in the Church as a married couple.  However, we are to primarily be out in the world converting it, not spending all of our time in the sanctuary.

If you know Church history, you would know that women have had much influence in the Church.  St. Catherine of Siena, a woman, is the primary person that convinced the Pope to return to Rome from France.  Many others have had much influence—Mother Teresa in our own time.

I agree with Mike F. in that the culture is the guilty party concerning the corruption of the understanding of sexuality.  The Church has beautiful teaching on sexuality—I have been studying it for a number of years now.  I will take the Church’s version over our culture’s any day.  The respect and dignity that is given women in this teaching is very touching and humbling.  You might try studying it sometime.

Dear Christine,

If you’re suffering from PTSD, then I sincerely hope you do stay away from these com boxes as you have said you intend to - in the same way I recommended to John.  It’s not a healthy place for you to be.  But for the sake of anyone else who is reading, I’d like to reply to a few of your comments.

1) If you (or anyone else) can’t bring yourself to read links to reputable studies because they were also listed by the Catholic League, that’s certainly your choice.  But the links were to reputable studies not done or paid for by the Catholic League.  And again, some of the links I presented weren’t connected with the Catholic League at all – for instance, the one about sexual abuse in the public schools, the one by Prof. Philip Jenkins and the National Catholic Reporter article.  So, I don’t know what would keep you from reviewing them.
Perhaps if I simply list some of the studies below, without any connection to the Catholic League, you (or anyone who shares your aversion) could eventually review them yourself?

2) Also, while I think I can understand how your trauma and emotional pain might lead you to compare the Catholic League with the KKK, the comparison seems objectively inaccurate and unjustified.  If I had referred you to studies done by an organization like the North American Man/Boy Love Association (which openly advocates sexual relations between adults and minors), then your comparison to the KKK (which openly advocates racism and prejudice) would be fair and justified.  Although the Catholic League may have its issues, it most certainly does not advocate for the sexual molestation of anyone, let alone minors.
 
3) While I can understand why you want to keep the focus on the Catholic Church, I’m a little confused because you yourself asked if there were credible studies done of other religions related to sexual abuse. (Apr 22, 2010 3:39 PM) I don’t understand why you’d ask if you aren’t interested.

4) While some people might be trying to deflect attention away from the Church rather than honestly confronting the problem, I think many Catholics are understandably reacting to what they perceive as a serious double standard and selective outrage in the coverage and attention paid to the sexual abuse of minors.

It appears evident to many that there are those who are pursuing and publicizing the scandals in order to achieve a goal quite different than simply cleaning the Church up.  Agendas range from trying to destroy (or at least damage) the Church as much as possible because of the Church’s advocacy and teaching on certain issues (abortion, gay marriage, ESCR, etc) to much less grandiose aims such as advocating for women priests (and a whole bunch in between those extremes).  I’ve seen some evidence of these less than pure agendas, even in this combox (not accusing anyone in particular here).
 
I think it’s extremely important for Catholics to speak out against the sexual abuse of minors and to demand that our priests and bishops take concrete steps to rid the Church of this scourge.  But I think it’s also important for Catholics to defend the Church from unjust or excessive attacks.

Why?

Because while the Church is filled with human beings who often fail, the Church is also the means by which Jesus Christ chose to mediate his grace to the world.  The Church also possesses the fullness of God’s truth that leads all of us home to our Lord in heaven at the end of this life – she has the trustworthy road map.  When the Church is unjustly attacked, broad-brushed and maligned, the hidden (and sometimes not so hidden!) message is -  “stay away!”  Or “leave!”  “Why would anyone be associated with that Church?”  That message is just as much from the pit of hell as the molestation of minors.
 
In fact, those who have sexually abused minors and those who are trying to destroy the Church from without because they hate her teaching, hate who she is, are ultimately working toward the same evil ends -  the destruction of eternal souls.  And that’s why I stand against both groups.  Jesus was very clear about what is destined for whoever harms one of his “little ones.” (Matt 18:5-6)  And that terrible, eternal harm can be done in more than one way.

SAMPLING OF LINKS, ARTICLES, ETC. NOT TO CATHOLIC LEAGUE:
http://archive.newsmax.com/archives/articles/2004/4/5/01552.shtml

http://www.zenit.org/article-3922?l=english

http://www.amazon.com/Pedophiles-Priests-Anatomy-Contemporary-Crisis/dp/0195145976

Statistics on Sexual Violence in Jewish and Non-Jewish Communities (Childhood Sexual Abuse, Sexual Assault, Clergy Sexual Abuse, Professional Sexual Abuse)
http://www.theawarenesscenter.org/statistics.html

“Child Maltreatment 2001: Summary of Key Findings,” National Adoption Information Clearinghouse, http://www.calib.com/nccanch April, 2003.

Rabbi Sexual Misconduct
http://bjpa.org/Publications/downloadPublication.cfm?PublicationID=4370

Thomas Plante, “A Perspective on Clergy Sexual Abuse,” http://www.psywww.com/psyrelig/plante.html
Mark Clayton, “Sex Abuse Spans Spectrum of Churches,” Christian Science Monitor, April 5, 2002, p. 1.

Rabbi Arthur Gross Schaefer, “Rabbi Sexual Misconduct: Crying Out for a Communal Response,” http://www.rrc.edu/journal Novem,ber 24, 2003.

http://www.theawarenesscenter.org/clergyabuse

Interview on Sexual Abuse of Children in Islam:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VMS0YexWBTk


8 tips for Imams for dealing with sexual abuse, assault and harassment in the Non Western Countries

http://www.soundvision.com/Info/socialservice/sexabuseimamnonwest.asp 

Daniel Wishnietsky, “Reported and Unreported Teacher-Student Sexual Harassment,”Journal of Ed Research, Vol. 3, 1991, pp. 164-69.

Douglas Montero,  “Secret Shame of Our Schools: Sexual Abuse of Students Runs Rampant,”  New York Post, July 30, 2001, p. 1.

Diana Jean Schemo, “Silently Shifting Teachers in Sex Abuse Cases,” New York Times, June 18, 2002, p. A19.

Berta Delgado and Sarah Talalay, “Sex Cases Increase in Schools; Many Acts of Teacher Misconduct Not Being Reported,” Sun-Sentinel, June 4, 1995, p. 1A.

Here’s a sampling of articles, links, etc. that don’t go to the Catholic League:

http://archive.newsmax.com/archives/articles/2004/4/5/01552.shtml

http://www.zenit.org/article-3922?l=english

http://www.amazon.com/Pedophiles-Priests-Anatomy-Contemporary-Crisis/dp/0195145976

Statistics on Sexual Violence in Jewish and Non-Jewish Communities (Childhood Sexual Abuse, Sexual Assault, Clergy Sexual Abuse, Professional Sexual Abuse)
http://www.theawarenesscenter.org/statistics.html

“Child Maltreatment 2001: Summary of Key Findings,” National Adoption Information Clearinghouse, http://www.calib.com/nccanch April, 2003.

Rabbi Sexual Misconduct
http://bjpa.org/Publications/downloadPublication.cfm?PublicationID=4370

Thomas Plante, “A Perspective on Clergy Sexual Abuse,” http://www.psywww.com/psyrelig/plante.html
Mark Clayton, “Sex Abuse Spans Spectrum of Churches,” Christian Science Monitor, April 5, 2002, p. 1.

Rabbi Arthur Gross Schaefer, “Rabbi Sexual Misconduct: Crying Out for a Communal Response,” http://www.rrc.edu/journal Novem,ber 24, 2003.

http://www.theawarenesscenter.org/clergyabuse

Interview on Sexual Abuse of Children in Islam:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VMS0YexWBTk


8 tips for Imams for dealing with sexual abuse, assault and harassment in the Non Western Countries

http://www.soundvision.com/Info/socialservice/sexabuseimamnonwest.asp 

Daniel Wishnietsky, “Reported and Unreported Teacher-Student Sexual Harassment,”Journal of Ed Research, Vol. 3, 1991, pp. 164-69.

Douglas Montero,  “Secret Shame of Our Schools: Sexual Abuse of Students Runs Rampant,”  New York Post, July 30, 2001, p. 1.

Diana Jean Schemo, “Silently Shifting Teachers in Sex Abuse Cases,” New York Times, June 18, 2002, p. A19.

Berta Delgado and Sarah Talalay, “Sex Cases Increase in Schools; Many Acts of Teacher Misconduct Not Being Reported,” Sun-Sentinel, June 4, 1995, p. 1A.

Mike F, 
An unmarried man may be healthy, sure; that is different than forced celibacy.  And certainly, allowing the choice for marriage will not prevent sin in people in authority.  Yet, it may stem some of the sexual shadow and problem the Church has by the forced celibacy rule.  This mandate NOT made by St. Paul, but by Pope Gregory in 1074, You can not call that based in the origins of Christianity.  Oh, and you got Pauls “conclusion” wrong: “Now to the unmarried and the widows I say: It is good for them to stay unmarried, as I am. But if they cannot control themselves, they should marry, for it is better to marry than to burn with passion” (verses 8-9).
Mandated celibacy s a contributing factor, but lifting that mandate and going back more to the message of Paul and Jesus won’t completely alleviate the sexual problems.  After all, married and non married both can fall into sexual sin and problems.

Lauretta,
In 30 yrs of being Catholic, you have yet to meet one unhealthy, unmarried man?  I have met some men with unhealthy sexuality, both priests and not, both married and unmarried. Your post expresses a blindness that wouldn’t allow you to be part of reforming the problems the Church faces.  I don’t see how your time as a Catholic has any relevance,but fwiw, I have been one longer. The crisis with sexual abuse is related to abuse of power.Mandates about sex from the Church are really mandates about power.

And wrt women in Church history, yes, I know about how Jesus was a friend to women, about Mary Magdalen and her role in the early church, Mary, Jeuss’ mother.  Other women in Acts, Junia and otehrs, who were commisioned to go otu and preach the gospel.  Early Church gatehrings were in homes, certainly the realm of women.  The early Church seems more egalitarian in involving women, to the point where most cannot imagine that sort of involvement today.

S: You can’t be serious. You wrote: “Other women in Acts, Junia and others, who were commissioned to go out and preach the gospel. Early Church gatherings were in homes, certainly the realm of women. The early Church seems more egalitarian in involving women, to the point where most cannot imagine that sort of involvement today.”

I’ve read the New Testament many times and I’ve never come across anyone named ‘Junia’. No woman was ever commissioned to preach the Gospel. Egalitarian? The Apostle Saint Paul’s letters to the Corinthians were meant for the men of the community and not for the women. He closes off the first letter to the Corinthians by writing, “Watch, stand fast in the faith, ACT LIKE MEN, be strong.” (1 Corinthians 16:13) Also, according to Paul, women were forbidden to speak in the churches: “Let a woman learn in silence with all submission. For I do not allow a woman to teach, or to exercise authority over men; but she is to keep quiet. For Adam was formed first, then Eve. And Adam was not deceived, but the woman was deceived and was in sin. Yet women WILL BE SAVED BY CHILD-BEARING if they continue in faith and love and holiness with MODESTY.” (1 Timothy 2:11-15)

In Romans 16:7, Paul praises a woman named Junia as “outstanding among the apostles.”  Despite the modern mistranslation of her name as masculine “Junias” or “Junius,” no commentator prior to the 13th century questioned that this apostle was a woman.1 For example, John Chrysostom, whose writings often express misogyny, wrote of Romans 16:7, “O how great is the devotion of this woman that she should be counted worthy of the appellation of apostle!“2 This unanimity of testimony over a milennium is particularly striking since it remained during a long period of eroding toleration of women’s ministries in the medieval church.  The reason for the witness is simple: all the ancient Greek and Latin manuscripts commending the oustanding apostles in Romans 16:7 read either “Junia” or “Julia”, both feminine forms.
Both Junia and Julia were very common ancient Greek woman’s names, whereas the masculine alternatives suggested by modern commentators have no manuscript evidence to support them.  “Junius” and “Junianus” suggested by some, are perfectly good Roman man’s names.  However, they occur in NO ancient manuscript of Romans 16:7! Of the hypothetical name “Junias,” Bernadette Brooten writes, “What can a modern philologist say about Junias?  Just this: it is unattested.  To date, not a single reference in ancient literature has been cited by any of the proponents of the Junias hypothesis.  My own search for an attestation has also proved fruitless.  This means that we do not have a single shred of evidence that the name Junias ever existed.“3 Note that Brooten is not only speaking of the lack of this name in NT manuscripts, but in ANY ancient manuscript, Greek or Latin, secular or sacred!
Certain early manuscripts do contain a variant name, but it, too, is feminine.  “Julia” is found in P46, it, cop, eth, and Ambrosiaster.  P46, a papyrus manuscript dating about 200 AD, is one of the most ancient and reliable Greek mss of the NT extant.  In Romans 16:7, P46 reads “Julia,” which can only be feminine.  What does this mean?  That in Romans 16, St. Paul commends a noteworthy woman apostle.  It also means that translators who found a woman apostle unacceptable made up the name “Junias” to substitute their own word for the Word of God.  That is how important limiting women’s freedom has been to religious legalists.  We will find that this attitude and practice have been all too common.
What does the Bible say?  Paul calls Junia his kinsman and fellow prisoner.  Like Paul, she had suffered persecution and imprisonment for the Gospel.  Evidently, her ministry and faith were known even outside the church.  Sometimes we forget what early Christians under the iron fist of pagan Rome had to suffer to proclaim Jesus Christ as Lord.  For Junia and Andronicus (perhaps her husband), being an apostle wasn’t a matter of privilege, but prison. 
According to Romans 16:7, Junia had become a Christian before Paul himself.  Since his conversion occurred just a few years after the Resurrection of Christ, Junia must have been one of the earliest converts to Christianity and probably was one of the founders of the church at Rome.  She may have traveled to Jerusalem for Passover and witnessed the crucifixion and later, the ascension of the resurrected Christ.  Or perhaps she was one of the “visitors from Rome, both Jews and proselytes,” who were converted by the women and men who, filled with God’s Spirit, proclaimed “the wonderful works of God” at Pentecost.  We know that the Roman church was already well established before Peter and Paul travelled there (Ro. 1:7-13).
Paul writes that after His resurrection, Christ appeared to 500 “brothers” at one time and later to all the apostles, most of whom were still living (I Cor. 15:5-7).  In Greek, “brothers” is a generic, figurative term for all true Christians.5 Note also that in the I Cor. 15:5-7 passage, the “apostles” who witnessed the resurrected Christ are distinct from and in addition to the Twelve.

S: In Romans 16:7, Junias is a man since he is referred to by Paul as a kinsmen and Apostle. It is a fact of history that the Apostles were all men.

S, I did not mean that I had never met an unhealthy unmarried man.  I meant that I have not had the negative experiences concerning power, sexuality, etc. that you referred to in the Church.  In actual fact, however, I have only known, as a parish priest, one who was accused of sexual abuse.  He was accused of kissing a girl behind closed doors when he was over 80.

I totally disagree with you about the Church’s teachings about sexuality.  They are not about power.  They are about teaching us how to love.  Study the teachings, not just what others have said (even your parish priest) or your own misconception of the teachings.  You might be surprised.

Celibacy is not forced on any priest.  He freely chooses it by accepting the vocation to priesthood.  Abstinence is required for EVERY unmarried person, according to the Bible.  Read about fornicators, adulterers, etc. and you will see that is true.  It is true for married people as well, under certain circumstances.

Many Protestant clergy acknowledge how difficult it is to maintain both a family and the duties of being a minister.  How many stories do we know about “the minister’s kids”?  Not a lot of men or women are capable of fulfilling the demands of those two vocations without someone suffering a lot.  Usually it is the family of the minister.

Your negativity of the Church is something I don’t share, I’m sorry.  I came into the Church as an adult from atheism, have studied the faith quite a lot and have not been disappointed—in the teaching.  Of course I have known several people, clergy and lay, who have not lived the faith well, and so are a source of disappointment, but that is to be expected when dealing with humans.

S-
I agree with you.  While my friend would not admit to it being a case of abused POWER, I feel the way you do and agree that if it were a counselor, the man would have lost his license.  Because he enjoys no respect from my friend’s now-husband, he has already lost his ‘license’ to speak and act for the universal Church.  So it did come with a price.

Lauretta,

Will you please share with us precisely what are the qualifications specific to the priesthood that are in the Bible?  Assuming you believe that the Bible is the inspired Word of God, and that He left us with an ‘instruction manual’ for our lives and for His Church, and how it is to be run, there ARE verses that apply specifically to men in the ministry.  What are the qualifications specific to men in the ministry?

(PS- I agree with you that women are not to be ordained priests.  That is against Scripture teaching and nowhere in universal Church Tradition.  You need not go into any more explanation why women cannot be ordained priests.  I am only asking what are the specific qualifications IN THE BIBLE for MEN in ordained priesthood.)

To All:

So that we are all on the same page, the verses I use as qualifications for men in the ordained priesthood are: 1Timothy 3:1-5, Titus Chapter One and 1Corinthians 9:5.

Paul was writing to Timotny, who was setting up a church in Ephesus and Titus was setting up a church in Crete at the time.  I think those are ideal examples of what are the qualifications of men in the ministy.  They are specific to ministry, and not taken out of context like Matthew 19, that would make an excellent case for castration for priests upon ordination, and that would be a REAL commitment from them, for life.

Dear S –

I agree with Lauretta on celibacy -  no one is “forced” to take a vow of celibacy.  It is voluntarily made.  Your characterization is inaccurate.

Also, I didn’t “get Paul’s conclusion wrong.”  I drew that information from the Catholic Answers article – which you would know if you read the links I provided to the New Advent Catholic Encyclopedia and Catholic Answers.

What you characterize as St. Paul’s “conclusion” is in verse 9 out of 40.  St. Paul continued on about the topic in general through verse 39.  As such, verse 9 was not his over-all conclusion.  Verse 9 was a limited, transitory conclusion in the middle of a broader teaching.  Yes, if a person “cannot exercise self control, it is better to marry.” 

Of course.  That’s common sense.  I don’t think anyone here would disagree with it.

In Paul’s thought here, sound discernment is therefore key -  if a person is not genuinely able to follow the celibate life, if one is not given that grace and call, then they should not enter into it.  But St. Paul is also clear in his general principle-  “Everyone should remain in the state in which he was called” (v. 20)  Whether circumcised or not, married or not, even slave or free.

And finally he concludes by writing - He who marries “does well; and he who refrains from marriage will do better” (v. 38)  and to a widow considering marriage, “she is more blessed, though… if she remains as she is (unmarried)…” (v. 40)

Did St. Paul mandate celibacy?  No.  Yet, clearly, he looked very favorably on celibacy and saw it as preferable to the married state -  as long as one was able to remain in it without falling into sin.  As such, the Church’s general discipline in relation to the clergy is on reasonable footing.  The issue of celibacy is a disciplinary matter and not a dogmatic one.  The Church therefore has the authority to require it or not require it of anyone who is willing and called to take that voluntary step.  It’s a prudential issue. 
I can see positives and negatives associated with married clergy.  Although, it should be repeated that the few studies that have bee done of married clergy do not at all support the idea that a married clergy will somehow alleviate problems of sexual abuse.

Am I against married clergy?  No -  I’m ambivalent.  There are pros and cons.  So, I don’t entirely disagree with you.

Typo correction:  “St. Paul continued on about the topic in general through verse 39” should have been “St. Paul continued on about the topic in general through verse 40.”

to emerald guard- lol!  I suppose you have DNA to prove it?  Apparently, many Biblical scholars and historians disagree and say Junia was, indeed, female.

Ronna, I appreciate your statement about there being a price paid when power is abused, that of not being able to truly speak for the universal Church.  I have seen some of that myself.  I am glad your friend has moved on from that unhealhty relationship.  I recently read,Seeking Wholeness: Women Dealing With Abuse Of Power In The Catholic Church, written by professional theology and ethics translator Marie Evans Bouclin.  She explains tha in her experience, most Catholic women will not talk about this much.  I pray your friend will stay well!

S-Male or female, Junias or Junia is not an Apostle in the sense of the twelve Apostles or of Paul the Apostle. Very likely Andronicus was an apostle in the sense of ‘missionary’ and Junia was his wife. See this quote:
“There are many individuals in the NT writings characterized as ‘apostles’ (those sent forth with a message) in the more general sense of that term. ‘Andronicus and Junia are apostles in the wider sense of delegated missionaries’ (Dr. James Hastings, Dictionary of the Apostolic Church, vol. 1, p. 57).

To Mike F, on celibacy,
The Church hierarchy did not mandate celibacy for centuries; only when it presented a problem for the Church (loss of prperty through inheritance).  Seminaries continue to take men out of the realm of being able to debelop relationships with women for disecernment.  They cannot fully know what they are undertaking when they do it, and they cannot serve the Church as priest without it.  It wasn’t always a mandated part of what they promise.

Mike F,
As far as St Paul’s writings, as one of the earliest writers for what was then becoming a new Judaic sect, paul never expected there would be another generation of human beings.  He wrote from the mindset of full expectation of the imminent Second Coming of Christ.  That matters.

Reading the free for all letters of hatred without a one on one response by the Register is reminiscent of Jesus facing his accusers and refusing to defend himself.  The Register has chosen to defend itself before God by allowing the spittle and hateful words against it as Penance in accord with the Pope’s plan for reparation for these unforgivable acts.
For the Register to stand up and allow this editorial whipping is an heroic moment not understood by many. The crowd screaming “Crucify” is not likely to understand self accepted suffering for the sins of the Fathers.  Prayerfully,  these writers will exhaust themselves and put down their whips realizing their victim is spent. It is time to drop the “first stone” and walk away grumbling.  Their work is done. There is nothing more to do but pray the Church heals itself by penance and their haters pray to “heal thyself.”
Bob

Reading the free for all letters of hatred without a one on one response by the Register is reminiscent of Jesus facing his accusers and refusing to defend himself.  The Register has chosen to defend itself before God by allowing the spittle and hateful words against it as Penance in accord with the Pope’s plan for reparation for these unforgivable acts.
For the Register to stand up and allow this editorial whipping is an heroic moment not understood by many. The crowd screaming “Crucify” is not likely to understand self accepted suffering for the sins of the Fathers.  Prayerfully,  these writers will exhaust themselves and put down their whips realizing their victim is spent. It is time to drop the “first stone” and walk away grumbling.  Their work is done. There is nothing more to do but pray the Church heals itself by penance and their haters pray to “heal thyself.”
Bob

well, emeraldguard, it seems clear where you are with your argument against women’s ordination Am I clear, are you agains ordination of women, or is it more?  Are you saying Jesus gave these men titles, so therefore no women can ever be titled?  Are you saying he put men above women?  Are you saying Jesus himself wanted women to be remian subservient to the orders of men throughout history?  Are you saying he didn’t want women involved as integral parts of the Body of Christ, not whne it comes to power or decision?  I read of Jesus who included women in his entourage, women who were strong and wealthy enough to support him during his ministry. Women he loved, who loved him, women he treated as human beings, not property,women who stood beside him, walked beside him to the end, while his cowardly disciples ran away and denied him.  It is rather notable he appeared first to Mary of Magdala after his resurrection.  It shows how he cared for women, and entrusted them with much. I am not here to argue the for or agianst the ordination of women, that is not my ballywick.

To S: I am for the Catholic Church. Every day the Catholic Church feeds more people, educates more people, takes care of more sick people, houses more people, clothes more people, and visits more imprisoned people than any organization on earth could ever hope to. The teachings of the Catholic Church are God’s teachings, without exception. As Michael Voris’ RealCatholicTV.com says: “The Catholic Church is our only hope against evil because that is its God given mission. As Jesus said, Apart from me you can do nothing.” I believe in the authority of the Pope and that Christ, the Good Shepherd, made the Apostle St. Peter the chief shepherd of the Church. I believe in Apostolic succession and that every Catholic Bishop can trace his ordination back to the twelve Apostles. The Bishop of Rome (the Pope) is the 265th successor of Saint Peter. Regarding ordination of priestesses, Pope John Paul II declared infallibly in his Apostolic Exhortation Ordinatio Sacerdotalis that “the Catholic Church does not have the authority to ordain women and this teaching must be held by all the faithful.” I am faithful to the Catholic Church and thus I will defend this teaching.

I suspect that you are an anti-Catholic who hates the Catholic Church because of what She stands for and that your postings here are an exercise in political persuasion—an attempt to de-legitimatize the Catholic Church using any means available. Am I wrong?

To EmeraldGuards:

You wrote, “I believe…that Christ, the Good Shepherd, made the Apostle St. Peter the chief shepherd of the Church…”  But if St. Peter wanted to become a Roman Catholic priest today, he would be refused by every seminary because he was married.  How does that square with you?  For the record, I have said before that women are NOT to be ordained to the priesthood, per the Bible and also per Tradition.  It may (possibly) be that women over the age of 40 might be ordained deacons - I reference the Deaconess Phoebe, in the Bible, and there MAY be some evidence in Tradition to back that up too.  It is not a role for women of child-bearing or child-rearing ages, but a service oriented role for older women.  Basically, women do that role now, being pastoral associates.  St. PETER would be a GREAT priest, bishop, cardinal, pope today - wouldn’t you agree?

BOB, The Catholic church is NOT a victim!  This self-pity coming from so many Catholics is mind-boggling. he church’s clergy members have literally victimized children across the world. And they victimized Catholics who believed in them by their overwhelming betrayal of trust.  Please, please, examine your priorities!  It does not show “courage” to allow a variety of comments following an editorial.  Virtually every newspaper shares that practice now.  And,the “work” has just begun, that is, the work of holding every criminal in your church’s religious garb acountable for their crimes.  I’m pretty sure that if Jesus were here today, he would be outraged by the behavior of those who pretend to represent him, and ashamed of those who are not supporting the REAL victims, those abused by priests.

Emeraldguard,
Yes, the Church, the people of the Church, serve people, and that is one aspect that shows the life of the Spirit continues.
And, yes, you are unequivocally wrong.  I am a Roman Catholic who’s very life is rooted in the Faith.  I am called by that to pray, to examine, to learn and question, and to pray more.  In God’s image, we are called to live and experience, and to learn from Life itself the revelation.  There are contradictions of logic in some teachings of the Church, they must be examined with open minds and hearts, and addressed with charity.  Church history shows clearly that Popes are sometimes corrupt, sometime wrong.  It is an historically recent development for Catholics to be so Pope-centric; the Church tended toward great diversity and collegiality through most of history.  It exists still, though many seem bent on denying it.    I love the quote,  “in essentials, unity; in doubtful matters, liberty; in all things, charity.”  Which is usually (but probably incorrectly) attributed to St. Augustine.  Back to the first cause of these comments, the disgusting article above.  I can love the Church enough to say that it disgusts and angers me that Men in the hierarchy protected criminal priests rather than children, that they enabled abuse to continue.  This crisis must be an opportunity for people of faith to examine how this developed, there is so much more to it than a few sexual criminals; abetting the crimes is another crime, it needs tending which VIRTUS and other Safe Environment trainings completely fail to address.  It almos seems a diversion tactic, focus on the few sick priests but not on the fact that they were enabled to continue.  Here is another quote from St Augustine,
“In the absence of justice, what is sovereignty but organized robbery?”

Emeraldguard wrote: “The teachings of the Catholic Church are God’s teachings, without exception.”  How about when they contradict each other? For example, which is it, the earth revolves around the Sun or the Universe revolves around the earth - the Church has taught both. Does it not astound you that until 1992 OR 1993, the Church taught that Galileo was wrong, and the earth was the center of the universe? Do you believe all the Vatican II teachings?  Popes are men, too.  And Jesus surely knew of Peter’s imperfections.  Do you read and take every encyclical as gospel truth?  Some call that a from of fundamentalism which idolizes the Pope; I don’t know but maybe it needs examining.  Your arguuments strike me as a sort of fundamentalism:  The Roman Church knows all, and if you don’t do what the Pope says, you are damned?  Is that what Jesus wanted for his People?

Ronna: Both Scripture and the writings of the Early Fathers show that the Apostle Saint Peter took up a life of celibacy after he was chosen by Jesus. (In fact all of the Apostles led celibate lives after their becoming Apostles.) There’s an old joke that goes: Peter and Jesus were always good friends, even after Jesus healed Peter’s mother in law. Regardless, there were no seminaries in the beginning, and the twelve Apostles were the seed of the bishops and their helpers, the priests.

To S: You are incorrect. The Catholic Church has never changed any of its infallible teachings, and no, none of the Church’s infallible teachings contradict each other. The Catholic Church has never infallibly defined any teaching regarding geocentricity (the earth as the center of the universe). It has only issued theological opinions in that matter. You need to learn the difference between dogma and theological opinion. BTW, no one has ever proven that the earth revolves around the sun. All of the different theories are based on mathematical models. There are mathematical models that show that the earth is the center of the universe; there are models that show other planets as being the center of the universe. The most popular theory these days is of course the one that shows the sun being the center of the universe. But this is still only a theory. There is no proof. Most scientists are atheists, and thus they tend to approve the mathematical models that oppose the Church. Regarding this matter, you also need to read the book by Doctor Robert Sungenis, “The Church Was Right, Galileo Was Wrong”. Your understanding is not correct and you are in for a shock because Dr Sungenis makes a great case for the Church’s original theological opinion which is consistent with the Bible and with what the Catholic Church said for centuries. No one has ever defeated Mr. Sungenis book even though he will pay $1,000 to anyone who can. Sorry.

To EmeraldGuards-

Precisely what Scripture verse verifies your statement that Peter and the rest of the apostles abandoned their wives and their children for a single, care-free SINGLE life, to forfeit their responsibilities to their wives as husbands (meaning having sexual relations as well as being providers)?  I am only asking where to find it in Scripture.  Please do not give me the “Church Fathers” opinions because most of them date from the 3rd and 4th century, hundreds of year after Jesus’s aposltes started the church, and many “fathers” started out as Gnostics before they became Christian.  I really want to know what verses you use to defend your position.  I gave my verses to defend a married priesthood.  I was not vague.  Please return the courtesy.  Thank you.

Geezlouise - I am surprised that the many Non-Catholics who serve the Bible so faithfully as its teacher, forget completely the foretelling of “Good and Evil Seeds” living together (Matthew 13:36) and “The Harvest at the End of the Age,.The Angels take the good and the Evil One his harvest.  This disgraceful history of pedophile priests (mostly)and likely same type of bishops, who conceal these crimes, are included, in my opinion, as the Children of the Evil One. The really true Christians are to pray for the victims as well as the evil doers.  I personally find this extremely difficult.  Nonetheless, I must remember this is what Jesus taught.  “Love Thy Enemies.” Playing “gotcha” may make us feel better in our need to prove who deserves just punishment, but it won’t persuade our Lord to back off his explanation of how all mankind shares the Earth and its inhabitants.
otto

To anyone, like me, that opposes the ordination of women, I offer the following data as evidence against it:  In the Old Testament, no woman was ever appointed by God to be a King of either Israel or Judah.  There were no women priests in the Old Testament, altough women’s fathers were priests.  There were no women that were authors of any Old Testament book and no women authors of New Testament books either.  There are no on-going women prophets in either the Old or New Testaments.  God used women at some point or another to prophecise for Him, but it was limited.  The five women that were one-time or limited prophets were: Miriam, Deborah, Huldah, Noahdiah (a false prophet!) and someone else whose name escapes me.  Only men were used by God as on-going prophets.  The Galatians 3 verse women-priest supporters use to defend female ordination is as silly as the Matth. 19 verse celibacy defenders use to defend it.  It is taken out of context, and meant to say that everyone is able to receive salvation.  Not that everyone, man or women, ought to have the same church roles.  I’m still waiting for the verses re: qualifications for priests.  Please, anyone?  Something applicable?  Thanks -

The idiocy of the article is beyond belief.  But what can one expect from a publication owned by the Legionnaries?  Absolutely disgraceful!  REAL journalists, such as Michael Rose, exposed long ago the true nature of the problem: rampant homosexuality in the Church hierarchy.  The cover-up was massive and deliberate. Bishops and Cardinals were knowing accomplices to child-rape, and they belong in prisons, not pulpits.

Ronna: I never wrote that “Peter and the rest of the Apostles abandoned their wives and children for a single, care-free SINGLE life, to forfeit their responsibilities to their wives as husbands ...” I said that after they became Apostles that they lived celibate lives. They lived with their wives and children but were celibate. What is your problem?

Married priests in the early Church were indeed celibate. (No that doesn’t mean they “abandoned” their wives.) See this link:

http://salesianity.blogspot.com/2010/03/priestly-celibacy-in-early-church.html

I think many pedophiles became priests because of the protection they received within the folds of the the Catholic church. Think of it, the status and trust bestowed on men of the cloth, coupled with easy access to children created the perfect environment for these deranged souls.  The church hierarchy enabled these pedophiles by covering up their crimes and are every bit as guilty.  The church should not be above the law!

EmeraldGuards-

Where is the reference in Scripture for your claim that the apostles remained celibate?  I am asking for a Scripture reference because I know the early church “fathers”, those that came from the Gnostic faith, believed the flesh to be bad and the spirit to be good, thus, many of them taught the apostles and early church believers were celibate, and even within marriage.  That does not fit what we know to be true either from the Jewish history OR from the Scipture and the early church in Acts of the Apostles.  I gave several references to dispute that.  Can you please give me a reference to back up your point from the Bible?

No, Jesus’ apostles never ever considred themselves “Christians”.  They were Jewish men.  It makes sno sense why a married man would need to give up sexual relations with his wife in order to serve others.  Jesus never asked them to renounce their marriages, in fact, he encouraged marriage; and maintaining marriage. In teh 4th century, the reason the Pope changed to single male celibates for priesthood exactly to stop the problems with inheritance for the children of clerics, bishops, priests, etc.  Obviously, those men were having relations.  Oh wait, some still do have relations and children, just without the marriage commitment.

from emeraldguard: “Regarding this matter, you also need to read the book by Doctor Robert Sungenis, “The Church Was Right, Galileo Was Wrong”. Your understanding is not correct and you are in for a shock because Dr Sungenis makes a great case for the Church’s original theological opinion which is consistent with the Bible and with what the Catholic Church said for centuries.”
So…then you are saying that John Paul II was wrong to apologize for the Galileo debacle??  And has remained wrong for almost two decades now?

I don’t care what anyone say. If a priest or anyone else molests a child, they should be punished….no matter what!

Where were the parents of these children? Why did they not go to the police? Did they beg the bishops not to release their childrens names?
Thirty years ago psychistrists believed they could “cure” people of pedophilia and homosexuality.  Bishops would have the prists enter into consuling and then transfer the priest.  Some of our bishops were homosexuals and covered up their own sins and crimes.  Today we know much more about these subjects but when judging any of this it would do well to remember that we are looking backwards and the info we have today was not available then.  People were doing what they thought best - parents, bishops and psychiatrists.  Did it turn out as well as any of them wanted - of course not.  Does condeming everyone really help? Perhaps what would be helpful is to really discuss the causes of pedophilia and homosexuality and how we can truely help these people.

To S: “So…then you are saying that John Paul II was wrong to apologize for the Galileo debacle??  And has remained wrong for almost two decades now?” No, I never said that John Paul II was wrong to apologize for the Galileo case, but it may be true that no apology was necessary. I have read that Galileo actually changed his mind shortly before his death and agreed with the Church. Why not read “The Church Was Right, Galileo Was Wrong” and decide for yourself?

Ronna: Jesus Christ was a celibate male. Celibacy has nothing to do with Gnostic beliefs. Celibacy is a gift that allows one to give up something good—sexual intimacy—for something better—a devout life of prayerful intimacy with God. As far as Scripture goes, there are no texts that show that the Apostles were sexually active. On the contrary, a life of close dedication to Christ involves sacrifice and celibacy. Virginity is a superior state for a Christian. Sexual innocence allows greater scope for holiness. The Apostles were one in their Catholic belief. St. Paul was an Apostle. Their life was one of imitation of Christ. ‘They who are carnal cannot please God.’ (Romans 8:8) ‘For if you live according to the flesh you will die.’ (Romans 8:13) ‘But this I say, brethren, the time is short; it remains that those who have wives be as if they had none.’ (1 Cor 7:29) ‘I would have you free from care…Now this I say for your benefit, not to hold you in check, but to promote what is proper, and to make it possible for you to pray to the Lord without distraction.’ (1 Cor 7:35)

emeraldguard, my library does not carry that book, and I am not willing to invest the $23 that Amazon charges for it. In the interest of keeping an open mind, I will check it out if it’s feasible. wrt your response to Ronna, you are picking and choosing Scripture out of context.  As far as Scripture not talking about the sex lives of the Apostles, well, it wasn’t relevant to the story.  because the Catholic faith includes taking Scripture IN the context of the writer, the historical and cultural context, one is best to hypothesize that the married Apostle DID have sexual relations, which is a natural part of married Jewish life, (and as I understand.  You say,:Sexual innocence allows greater scope of holiness.” that does not comport with holiness in the least.  St Augustine is one example. Holiness is based in ordnary wholeness, sexual relations are wholly humanly natural and good.  your response makes it seem it is somehow not good to have a healthy, chaste, sex life. Yet that IS holiness.

S: The Apostles were Jews? Not after Jesus’ death they weren’t. The turning point in history was Jesus’ death on the Cross. At that point, according to Doctor E. Michael Jones, editor of Culture Wars magazine, the term ‘Jew’ took on a different meaning. The Apostles were indeed ‘Christians’—followers of Christ because after the Crucifixion the word ‘Jew’ came to mean ‘one who rejects Jesus Christ’. Thus ‘Jew’ became a theological construct rather than a racial one. Jesus himself threw off the cloak of race. He said so himself in the Gospel of Mark 3:31-35. ‘And he answered and said to them, “Who are my mother and my brethren?” And looking round on those who were sitting about him, he said, “Behold my mother and my brethren. For whoever does the will of God, he is my brother and sister and mother”’. Under the New Covenant God’s people are identified by grace, not by race. (Jews pride themselves on their distinct identity and would never group themselves with ‘whoever does the will of God’.) Jesus cast off his racial connection. No connection can exist between good and evil. Race is now obsolete; there is no chosen race. Jesus left Judaism, and so did his followers. So yes, the Apostles were Christians who had “put on the new man” as Scripture says.

EmeraldGuards-

The Apostles WERE Jews before they began to follow Jesus and after.  Jesus was a Jew.  Jesus’s life fulfilled ALL the laws of the Hebrew Scriptures, and He was in the Father’s will the whole time.

It is written, “These people honor me with their lips but their hearts are far from Me.” - God wants us to love Him and to seek Him and His Kingdom first.  The Pharisees were only going through the motions of honoring God (with their lips, not their hearts).

All the cultural beliefs of Judaism, including its strong attachment to family would factor into the Apostle’s lives.  Jesus, in His statement about Mary and His ‘brothers and sisters’ being at the door, waiting to see Him, was to open the gates wide open to ALL people, including you and me, that do the Will of God.

The Holy Will of God is for a married male priesthood - the references are there.  All the references about “the flesh” being less holy are wrong.

Read the Song of Solomon - God is not a prude!  The Sacrament of Marriage gives sanctifying grace - grace a priest is now being denied.

Ronna: You are wrong that the Apostles were Jews after Jesus’ crucifixion and you prove it yourself: “Jesus, in His statement about Mary and His ‘brothers and sisters’ being at the door, waiting to see Him, was to open the gates wide open to ALL people, including you and me, that do the Will of God.” Jesus indeed opened the way to heaven for all people and Christians believe that. However, Jews do not believe that fact. Jews believe that Jesus was false and that only Jews are chosen by God to have fellowship with Him. Therefore, the Apostles couldn’t be both Jews and Christians since that is a contradiction in theology. That is why I wrote that the word ‘Jew’ is now based on theology and not on race. Jesus fulfilled the Law of the Old Covenant as you said and the Old Covenant was superseded and replaced by the New Covenant in Jesus’ blood. The Apostles were given Jesus’ authority and used that authority to start a new religion—the Christian religion. Therefore after the Crucifixion there was no middle ground. You were a Jew or Christian or a pagan, but an admixture was not possible because of differences in theology. Martin Luther rebelled against the Catholic Church and led others out of the Church into a different religion. Would you say that Martin Luther was Catholic after all that occurred? Similarly, the Apostles were not Jewish anymore since the Gospel that they spread is not Jewish.

Emeraldgaurds,  Try reading the Bible, start with today’s readings, then add soem historical accounts, and consider it all.  Jesus had a passover meal just before his arrest, Jewish.  The early Chusrch argued over the issues, and at first (for decades) considered themselves a sect of Judaism; they originally required Gentiles to convert to Jew, then be part of the early Chruch.  There was great difficulty between Paul and Peter over this issue.  The apostles were not theologians, not a one.  Maybe the Church shoud require priests to be fishermen and tax collectors, etc, but never theologians, he didn’t choose any of those; after all that’s the same argument you make for making priests all male.  It wasn’t unitl Antioch that the very beginnings of the word “Christian” came about, and it was still considered a sect of Judaism at that point.

S, I’ve read the Bible and it agrees with my thesis. If you read the story of the man-born-blind, you’ll see that when the Jewish authorities came to the house of the man blind from birth but healed by Jesus to inquire about his healing, his parents declined to say anything because they knew that speaking the good news about Jesus would get them expelled from Synagogue. That is why they deferred to their son. To be expelled from the Synagogue meant virtually the same thing as it means to be excommunicated from the Catholic Church. They would be ‘Persona Non Grata’, ostracized and alienated from their people. If someone is excommunicated they are no longer considered part of that faith group. Thus the same penalty would come down on the Apostles for speaking the truth about Jesus, which they did without question. They were expelled ipso-facto from communion with the Jews. Therefore, like I said, after the crucifixion, which by the way, occurred AFTER Jesus and the Apostles celebrated the passover, the Apostles were no longer in communion with the Jews. They were Persona Non Grata. Regardless of when the word ‘Christian’ first came into usage, the Apostles were pioneers in a new religion and your analysis doesn’t hold water.

great post as usual!

I think when ‘John’ says he’s never heard of SNAP, that’s a pretty good indication that there’s some serious dishonesty going on.

John-

SNAP is the “Survivor’s Network of Those Abused by Priests”.  They do excellent work and help ANYONE that has been a victim, and is now a survivor, of sexual abuse by clergy or of any other party.

I joined VOTF (Voice of the Faithful) when they first started, and I was anxious to get to Goal #3, working for Structural Change in the Church, until a friend reminded me about Goal #1 - to support the survivorsn.

So I attended one joint SNAP/VOTF meeting and when I met the wonderful SNAP survivors, I began helping them as much as I could.  I am a Catholic since infancy and have had 12 years of Catholic education, never had a bad experience with a priest or a nun (until I started speaking out for reform!)

Part Two ... and the “abuse” I’ve experienced has only been flack due to their anger that I no longer “Pray, Pay and Obey”, but rather, I call for change - primarily accountabitlity and transparency.  The priests I know do not like it.  They LIKE it the way it is.  As for “structural change” - I call for a married MALE priesthood, because we have been told for years that it will help bring more healthy MEN to the priesthood.  Allow me to point out that celibacy has nothing to do with the abuse of children.  But it DOES have EVERYTHING to do with the Roman church attracting so many homosexual men to the priesthood (30%) is the figure I have, and why so many priests seek out homosexual and heterosexual sex so often.  Women ought NOT to be priests.  It’s against Scripture and against Tradition.

Part Three -

I got out of VOTF a few years ago, when the organization got ghummy with Call to Action and Future Church, groups that call themselves “the faithful” but that are as far removed from my beliefs as can be.  There ARE religions out there that they can join (radical Episcopalean, Anglican and their ilk) yet they want to ruin the Roman Church.  With the credibility of the Vatican, the hierarchy and priests being so low right now, I see these people (CTA and FC members) now calling more for those radical changes to take place.  This is NOT going away folks - so if you are believers of everything the Roman church comes out with, without questioning it (like I used to be…) put on your seat belts, this is going to be a bumpy ride.  It is AWFUL that these radical people are now chastising the Magesteriam, and rightly so.  When are WE going to start to speak up?  Not blindly defending our hierarchy (like we buy into the ‘catholic pravda’ they want to force-feed us, but LOVING God by learning how our church is supposed to be and WORKING to see that healthy change is made?  The Roman Church is imploding.  I would like to see Benedict remain and nurse it to health.  Benedict allowed the investigation into Macial Marcier when JPII refused it.  I applaud Benedict for that - it was the FIRST thing he did, 5 years ago.

God Bless us

I read the article and all comments.  I “vote for” EmeralGuards, with Ronna a close second.

I have read much of what Robert Sungenis and E. Michael Jones have written and I appreciate very much their insights.  I also am a premium subscriber to RealCatholicTV and very much appreciate Michael Voris’s outspokeness.

This problem of all forms of sexual immorality has probably been engineered and deliberately foisted on America, though of course indivdiuals have to learn to control their flesh and have to fight all forms of sin all our lives.

I have read everything I can about Dr. Jones’ book “The Jewish Revolutionary Spirit” and I really would like to own the book and read it, but right now I cannot afford it and there is no place to borrow it like from a library.  I do think that it is important to look at the social engineering aspect of this serious wound to the Roman Catholic Church and try to determine WHO, what people and what groups, were responsible to the destruction of America and America’s Christian moral foundational values.

I wish I could say I see REAL CHANGE of direction by the American bishops and church actions and poliices so as to restore honor and respect and trust of the church.  I do not.  In a million “little” ways in churches all over America, the faithful are being subjected to microcosm decisions and policies of their parish and dioceses that are part of the same general policy and stance and position that the USA church hierarchy have promulgated for at least the last half century.

There is a “mystery of iniquity” in this world and these events of sexual depravity and immorality in our churches and other institutions is truly the work of Satan and his minions.

I pray for all of us, especially our bishops and the pope, to hear from Holy Spirit and start acting and living true devotion to Christ the King. We all need to sacrifice and throw off the spirit of this corrup world and pray for the strength to live as a true follower of Christ and to endure until the end.

God bless us each and every one in the Name of the One Who is Truth.

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There is something people aren’t getting.  Humans in the Church do bad things but it does not make the Church bad.  People aren’t separating this because they don’t like the Church in the first place otherwise they would understand. A huge church can not stop people from within doing what they do and that is why Jesus died for us and He forgives us as we attempt to improve situations that humans, not the Church, did.  It is the sins of people and yes that includes the clergy and those over them. The Church did not sin but people within the Church did.  This type of sin goes on in all Churches but Church is still the place of God.  God continues to accepts us in our imperfections and then helps us repent by His grace.  As He does we all need to give each other that chance no matter the bad thats been done. Be like Jesus and love the sinner even though you hate the sin. Jesus have mercy on all of us and let us not condemn each other but let us try to help as You do. Let us love the sinner enough to welcome him or her back.  Its what we would want for ourself.  Hating the sinner does not help and it is not of God.  Wish for the best for the fallen and welcome them back.  An unforgiving attitude does not help them or ourselves.  Forgiving doesn’t mean forgetting the evil but it means giving it to God.  God will deal with those of us (yes we’re all in the sinners category at some time or another) so please don’t be so harsh on the fallen.  Jesus died for all and accomplished all. God bless!!

For all have fallen short and none of us are without reproach.  I can tell that so many of you making comments have been wounded and I feel bad about that. I’m praying for all that are cursing the Church. It is not God’s way. It is the flesh screaming and not the Spirit talking. The Church is dealing with this so pray for it and stop the negativity.  It isn’t helping anyone or yourself. May God heal you and all members of the Catholic Church, all Churches and institutions that have suffered from sin from within. Thank you Jesus for having won the war.  May the Mercy of God give you grace and peace in this Easter season.

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