The campaign for religious freedom is the cause of a marked shift in Catholic voter support from President Obama to presumptive Republican presidential nominee Mitt Romney, some political observers believe.
Others disagree, arguing that the very existence of a “Catholic vote” is a myth.
Whether they vote as a bloc or not, self-identifying Catholics comprise 27% of the electorate. Hispanics account for roughly a third of the total, but their share is growing yearly, and they vote very differently from white Catholics.
Sparking debate about the significance of Catholic voters is a recent poll by the Pew Research Center for People and the Press, showing that Obama has lost 5% of the electorate in the last month, and 8% of Catholics, shifting them from favoring Obama by a 53% to 44% margin to preferring Romney by a 50% to 45% margin. Americans overall still prefer Obama by a 49% to 45% edge.
During the same month, Catholic candidate Rick Santorum suspended his campaign, leaving Mormon Romney the almost certain Republican candidate and the beneficiary of the shift. It appears that Newt Gingrich, a Catholic convert, also will drop out.
Romney has been more popular with Catholics than both Santorum and Gingrich throughout the campaign for reasons unknown but much speculated upon.
Long-Term Drift
Meanwhile, the Gallup organization found this week that Romney is doing well among regular churchgoers.
“Mitt Romney leads Barack Obama by 17 percentage points, 54% to 37%, among very religious voters,” Gallup reported April 25.
Among Catholics, the poll found, those who are very religious support Romney over Obama, 50% to 46%, but Obama fares better among moderately religious Catholics (based on church attendance and how seriously they say they take their faith), 55% to 42%, and nonreligious Catholics, 55% to 40%.
A long-term drift of Catholics from the Democratic Party, which held a virtual lock on their votes for a century, began in the late 1970s, according to political scientist David Campbell, director of the University of Notre Dame Rooney Center for the Study of American Democracy and co-author with Robert Putnam of American Grace: How Religion Divides and Unites Us (Simon and Schuster).
“Some believe this change is primarily economic — as you earn more, you are more likely to vote Republican — but I believe it is due to social issues,” most prominently to abortion, Campbell said. While both parties were “moderately pro-choice” before that time, Campbell said, afterwards they diverged, with the Republicans becoming strongly pro-life.
John White, political science professor at The Catholic University of America, believes the recent 8% shift in the Catholic vote is “in large part due to the recent debate over health care and contraception.”
At the same time, white Catholics have made an even more pronounced shift. They have moved from preferring Obama by 53%-44% in March to favoring Romney 57% to 37% in April. The margin favoring Romney among all Catholics — both white and Hispanic — is much less: 50%-45%. Though Pew’s pollsters did not survey enough Hispanic Catholics to provide reliable results for them, the results for Catholics overall at least suggest that Hispanics have also shifted a little towards the Republicans but still favor Obama.
White believes that the Obama administration “stumbled into this” fight with the Catholic bishops over health care and was not looking for a fight. But, he admits, “some of my colleagues believe it was a deliberate, calculated move” on the part of Democratic strategists, based on the assumption that further erosion of white Catholics would be more than balanced by the gains among unmarried women.
“I believe the Obama administration did focus groups and polling and decided it was not such a big gamble to refuse the Catholic institutions the exemption they wanted from the health-care plan,” CUA politics professor Claes Ryn said. “They may have found that not just unmarried women, but Catholic women would love to have sex-related services covered by health insurance.”
But Ryn thinks that Obama may still have made a mistake: “Catholic women, at least, may, upon reflection, decide it is not such a good idea having the federal government intruding into their institutions, even if they personally are in opposition to some Church teachings. They may say to Obama, ‘Butt out — this is my own business.’”
In White’s view, the Republicans let the Democrats frame the dispute with religious organizations over health care as one of women’s rights.
Hispanic Immigration
Whether he picked or stumbled into the fight with the Catholic Church, Obama has retained the unmarried-women demographic: According to Pew’s latest poll, 59% of unmarried women support Obama, and only 35% support Romney. But Pew does not have data to show whether Obama has drawn increased support among unmarried women since March.
White believes that Obama’s chance to win the election in November will rest on younger, nonreligious voters, because the white Catholic share of the electorate will be down from 2008,White, the author of Barack Obama’s America: How New Conceptions of Race, Family and Religion Ended the Reagan Era (University of Michigan Press, 2009), believes the increasing Hispanic vote, though mostly Catholic, will support Obama because the Democrats have courted it, while the Republicans have either ignored it or alienated it with immigration laws.
White also believes the Catholic bishops, in so strongly opposing Obama’s health-care measures, may, in the event of an Obama victory, find themselves isolated from the administration. “I would prefer to see the bishops being a pain [in the neck] to both parties equally,” Said White.
(In fact, the U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops demonstrated just such even-handedness last week when Bishop Stephen Blaire, chairman of the bishops’ Committee on Domestic Justice and Social Development and the conference’s spokesman on domestic affairs, condemned the budget passed by the Republican-controlled House of Representatives as “unjustified and wrong” for what he saw as cuts to poverty programs.)
Is the Catholic Vote a Myth?
Notre Dame’s Campbell said the health-insurance fight underlines the problem with the whole idea of a Catholic voting bloc. While the bishops oppose the Democrats on the health-care plan, they are closer to them than to Republicans on military spending, immigration and poverty programs. Catholics in general are similarly conflicted.
Abortion trumps all other social issues for Catholics, Campbell notes. And the more frequently believers attend church, the more likely they are to disapprove of abortion and to vote Republican.
Since this relationship between increasing attendance at worship services and an increasing tendency to vote Republican is the same for all religions, it argues against a “Catholic vote,” Campbell said. Similarly, Catholics have shifted their vote between Republicans and Democrats in the same proportions as the general electorate in the past three elections.
Catholics preferred the Democratic presidential candidate in 2000 (Al Gore, when, in fact, he won the popular vote), the Republican George W. Bush in 2004, and Obama in 2008, though narrowly.
But wait, says White. In the most recent poll, while Catholic women prefer Obama by roughly the same 8% margin as all women, Catholic males currently prefer Romney by 22%, while all American men prefer the Republican candidate by only 6%. This makes white Catholic males “outliers” — different enough from the American norm and numerous enough at 10% of the population to be studied by pollsters and cultivated by politicians, especially in the Northeast, where white Catholics comprise a larger proportion of the overall electorate.
Indeed, Obama appealed to this group in 2008 by selecting a Catholic male, Sen. Joe Biden, as his vice president. And he has also used female Catholic politicians such as Kathleen Sebelius and Nancy Pelosi to sell his health care reform plan and win female Catholics. Catholic University’s White predicts Obama will take similar steps to court the white Catholic vote in the 2012 race.
As to just why these politicians were unrepresentative of Catholicism, George Weigel, commentator and biographer of Pope John Paul II, counted the ways in a recent column: first, because they had failed to promote the cause of life, which he termed “the cultural marker of serious Catholicism in the United States;” second, because they had failed to protect religious freedom; and third, because their promotion of big government flew in the face of the Church’s teachings on subsidiarity, which holds that people’s needs should be addressed by community and political action at the level closest to the people.
But the Republicans have no chance of winning over black Protestants, the religious group showing the most support for Obama — 96%. Alveda King, Rev. Martin Luther King Jr.’s niece and a pro-life activist with Priests for Life, told the Register that most black Christians set such store by Obama as the “first American president with brown skin” that they set aside their pro-life views. Like Americans of all colors, “they worship patriotism or they worship money or they worship race before they worship God. They tell me, ‘Alveda, I’ll pray for the pro-life cause, but I’ll vote for Obama.’”
Bishop John Ricard, president of the National Black Catholic Congress, agreed that black Catholics are “very pro-life” and see abortion as targeting blacks.
But black Catholics are also “conflicted” at the level of national politics, Bishop Ricard added, because, while the Republicans support life, “the Democrats reflect our concern for the poor, for housing and jobs.” This makes the choice in November “a very difficult one,” he added. “I tell black Americans to vote with their conscience, but it must be a conscience informed by Scriptures and by the Church’s teaching.”
Register correspondent Steve Weatherbe writes from Victoria, British Columbia.
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SHAWN: This last post has to be the most cynical we could have - and after seven months of this topic. We are not voting for Jesus versus Satan or Bishop of Rome versus Abp. of Canterbury. We decide which platform is most suited to our values and realize that this election is not to decide the future of western civilization but can retard or advance it depending on the November 6 outcome. I am disappointed you will not vote your conscience and cast a ballot.
I think you all are lost….I will not vote for anyone, they all represent evil. Regardless who is POTUS, abortion and contraceptive will continue, no lesser of the two evil propaganda…that is hogwash! evil is evil, no matter how you spin it to satisfy your conscience.
Holly,
How can you receive Jesus Christ in the Eucharist on a Sunday and take him with you to the voting booth on Tuesday and betray him?
There is no greater issue. These babies need our voices.
I think you would benefit from a silent retreat, fasting and some alone with Our Lord. Ask Jesus. Who do you think the Prince of Peace would choose?
Peace
This comment is for Holly, who made a comment about changing her christian affiliation from Catholic to Episcopalian. I am Episcopalian, and you would certainly be very welcome. However, I would suggest, if you are happy in your Catholic traditions that maybe you first check out some other Catholic parishes if that is an option for you. I visited this site to learn for myself a little more about the opinions on the very contentious issues of the upcoming election - whether a vote for a Mormon is OK vs a vote for someone who would not further restrict abortion or contraceptive rules vs someone who would extend wars rather than try to make peace vs remove the social safety net or increase the deficit. The reality is neither party is good for Catholics, Episcopalians or any other Christians, and it rather saddens me that even on a site like this there’s so much mud slinging. Vote your conscience! God will support you.
I find my more liberal friends and colleagues who embrace the Christian faith, be it Catholic or Protestant to be missing a central point of the social gospel ignorant of the history of Jesus’s life and times…taxes. Rome’s reach was propped up by its ability to tax and drain the countries they occupied. The Pharisees and their intellectual ilk who also occupied the Jewish positions of authority in Israel glommed on to a good thing. Road tolls, income taxes, Temple tax, sacrificial animal taxes (the animal sacrifice could only be purchased at the Temple). Tax collectors scorned and regarded with contempt. Does any of this sound familiar? The political elites of Roman Gentiles and Jewish intellectuals bled em’ dry. I shudder to think the tax bracket Mary and Joseph were in. The “elites” were nothing more than useless shiftless bloodsuckers and Jesus knew it.
Obama is nothing more than intellectual redistributionist, a socialist bounced on the knees of avowed communists. He’s a crass narcissist taking from those who have to his friends who also have. He flouts the “social gospel” for his own and his friends aggrandizement, nothing more.
Thanks for poetic images and biblical references. I do however wonder why you did not explain how the USCCB as such or bishops have compromised with the world. The reference to their endorsement of the Earth Charter is unknown to me. The popes have championed the respect for the earth movement, St Francis of Assisi is the patron for his love for JESUS as LORD of all Creation which is where his spirituality which included the Earth and its creatures. The pope himself was criticised when JP11 prayed at Assisi and BXV1 did last year. They were not singing or chanting a mish-mash of prayers together for world peace, in St Francis’ Assisi but each went as representative of their own Churches, faith groups to show solidartity and humility with a reliance on Jesus or their understanding of god or gods and to give example to extremists who continue to kill and hurt in their false gods’ names. There is no way the NCCCB would have taken part in an Earth Day or “green” event that would be a contradiction of Catholic Tradition no more than the popes praying with the archbishop in Canterbury was endorging all Anglican theology or all world faith s when those same two popes prayed in Assisi on 4 October, St Francis’ feast day
As to dissent, see that Jesus as God’s Son made Flesh was sent to His death by those in the Temple who were supposedely the carriers of God’s Tradition, and that dissent went into the Jews-versus Christians who rejected circumcision and onto Paul’s Corinthian community after the couple lied to St Paul about their profits and hit the ground dead! The story is ongoingm dissent, women religious who dedicate their lives to good works for Jesus are straying on doctrinal matters carried away by false ideas of “choice” and “equality.”
PEACE to all as we work at our conversion of mind and heart to strengthen the unity of mind and heart and the external unity of Jesus’ Body the Church.
Most of the bishops and priests of the Catholic Church have, for too long, gotten tangled way too much in “the world.” The Bible says faithful people are to share their blessings with others, but it says nothing about taking the blessings OF others to share with OTHER others.
The Church has to divorce itself from all government funding for schools, social help programs, etc. Abortion, infanticide, “assisted” suicide, gay relations, etc. are all moral issues that STEM FROM the widespread acceptance of contraception and the “contraceptive mentality.” Even NFP has been abused and has played into this dynamic of the refusal to be “burdened” by “inconvenient” others.
In the Gospel of Luke, Jesus says, the days will come when people will say, “blessed are the wombs that never bore.” This passage can be followed into Revelation 6, when people will call on the mountains to fall upon them to hide from the wrath of the Lamb.
As far as the duty of the Church to us, the “sheep,” all the Church personnel, the pope, cardinals, bishops, priests, and nuns, sisters, monks, and brothers of the religious orders ought to be “on the same page,” teaching and living according the to the Catechism, which is essentially the “owner’s manual” for the Christian soul. In fact, we are called to the same duty with one another.
If you picture shepherds leading sheep along a single treacherous, steep and very narrow mountain path, there are moments when the crosier has to be extended around the neck of a sheep and a strong yank applied to keep the creature from plummeting down onto the rocks, where it is sure to be devoured by wolves. OR picture a great boat on an increasingly stormy ocean. The passengers who will fare best will be those clinging to the rails and each other in the hold of the ship, while those who will be the most in danger will be those strong sailors buffeted by the waves as they reach to rescue others. Passengers lacking discernment who think it’s “fun” to stand near the opening in the rail on the most slippery decks and to dip their hands or feet into shark-infested waters don’t know how much danger they’re in.
The shepherds have an over-bearing duty to try to rescue those in the most dangerous places. Sadly, there are many, many of us who, despite all perils, prefer to go our own way. BTW, this is why the pope has had to scold the various women’s religious orders. They have been openly promoting heresy and their “prayers” are syncretic, stating basically that “all paths lead to salvation,” which is absolutely NOT the truth. Sadly, though, the pope has not ALSO scolded the USCCB which itself signed on to the Earth Charter and took part in the celebrations of the Ark of Hope, which is every bit as scandalous and heretical. The green agenda would like most people to really turn “green” as dead people. Recent changes in the direction of the USCCB may have made such a scolding unnecessary at this point, but there still ought to be acknowledgement of the mistake.
President Obama has proven himself an enemy of the Catholic Church. He has had no qualms pushing for infanticide. He is cut from the same cloth as a number of Antichrist types in power and arising to power. He may indeed “mean well,” and one cannot tell if he is just being used or if he himself is aware of the path he’s walking. It is good to pray for him, because God demands it, and because with God even His conversion would be possible—but a Catholic MUST NOT vote for him. Father Vincent Micelli’s book, written in 1981, points to this very thing—a controversy (contraception debate) launched to create division, generate upset, and knock aside complacency, in order to be able to “rearrange” society so it will be more favorable to the desired power structure.
Obama has made himself the target of attack by the bishops, and he will capitalize on this because all in rebellion to the Church and its teachings will identify with him against the Catholic Church. Obama may very well finally be “martyred” by his own “friends” to turn the tide against the Church, which will be held in some way accountable. Remember, the Catholic Church is the only entity that has always in every arena posed an obstacle to communist domination of the world. Another someone awaits this turn of events, and that is the one who will bring ultimate evil upon the earth by establishing a worldly era of peace which is secured by force and control. This “peace” will reign for a brief time because dissent will NOT be tolerated. Perhaps through prayer, especially the rosary daily, Our Lady will come to mitigate our sufferings and fulfill the prophecy in which the head of the serpent will be crushed. In the meantime, prepare for the passion of the Catholic Church—where the Master has gone, His servants must follow. But also, be not afraid, for He goes before us always.
My recommendation for study would be the Cathechism of the Catholic Church because it cites the Bible and the Fathers of the Church (great teachers, most bishops) and other sure sources. It is not correct that the GOP just pay their money to the needy. The GOP chairman of the US House budget committee Mr Ryan is a practical Catholic and has designed a budget that is sensitive to Church teachings, the principles are clear, applying them where the “rubber meets the road” is open to different approaches. Constant study of the teaching is so important because they were codified under Pope Leo X111 and are refined and adapted to the changing world economic conditions ever since as they change but the principles do not,
I voted for Obama in ‘08 using much the same logic as Holly. But this new HHS mandate and the attack on religious freedom has me reeling. I truly believe that Obama is the smarter, better man to run the economy, foreign policy, etc., but so what if the trains run on time if he promotes an attack on the Church? I will not have the government dictating church teaching and practices. Period. I will have to put up with an inferior president, Romney, in order to preserve this basic freedom. If Obama were attacking any of my other basic freedoms, say not allowing people to assemble or cutting out freedom of speech, would this not also trump everything?
Cece, Holly and Leslie,
How about you three find a bible study to firm up your understanding of Jesus, Father, and Holy Spirit and the Ten Commandments. Go through the commandments one by one and apply to present day politics. It’s a pretty significant exercise. The first three address our relationship to God and the last seven refer to our treatment of others. Vote accordingly.
When people speak of taking care of the poor, it’s funny how the Democratic Party grabs that flag by taking money from others and redistributing it according to what they think is right including amoral and unethical causes. The Republicans, I’ve read, take care of the poor with their own money and give to charities they can monitor so the people who need the money get the money, not the middle man. They don’t leave it up to the government. It’s not the governments job. It’s our job to take care of the poor. Again, back to the Commandments. All is not as it seems.
It betrays a narrow understanding of the Catholic Church’s Gospel of Life teachings to presume it endorses the GOP. Nonsense, it is in the world but not of it. I do write to Fr Joseph on EWTN and ask him to broaden the daily prayers beyond abortion, which is the main topic of the prayers when they mention life, never the deat penalty and never the millions worldwide who are driven from their homes thanks to US military and political policies. We do not attack the nation’s leaders, but make ourselves ware that we are Catholic, we include the globe, as EWTN is by definition, and that broadens the agenda of the narrow-field in which we pray. Today there is dominantly Catholic Southern Sudan, the blind Chinese protestor about forced abortions in China’s one child per family plan, who was dumped out of the US Embassy in Beijing when Ms Clinton and Mr Geitner went hat in hand to beg for more money to splurge which we cannot pay back. Then there is Syria and the entire Middle East where from Israel to Iraq the Christians, mostly Catholics are leaving, killed. Northern Nigeria also with church bombings and is that in your parish’s prayer intentions ever?
More than you do, Bob
More then you do, Bob.
I concur ceci. Bob; Also believe a lot of the nutters will make it also because Jesus said father forgive them, the darned idiots do not know what they are doing. Ceci made her mind up her way, so we pray for all who do not check the whole record, analyise the Barry O’ health care plan. See how he dumped the blind protestor out of the USA Beijing Embassy because Ms Hillary and Mr Geitner went cap in hand to beg for more money to splurge. We cannot pay off what we already owe. As CECI’S Mom would say “excrement.! ! The man’s protest/ objecting to the cops coming in to drag the Mommies to rip the babies out when they are having more than one child. In a filthy setting, from which many die- not sown up properly after late term abortions. Barry O’ broke the Mexico City protocol and gives money now to international “please plan no-parenthood,” so naturally they would not want Civil Rights for him. That alone would be enough to not vote for him, which I did not do the first time when all the other Big Kids were chasing after the 1/2 black, 1/2 Irish pied piper. I would say **** but do not want to write, so excrement please.
CeCi: Rave on – Believing every Word the Catholic Church teaches does not make anyone a fanatic. Distorting them does. For those who obey God, He has promised a one-way ticket to heaven. I believe Him. Do You?
HEHEHE go for it LoneThinker!!
CECI; I totally agree with your post and shall borrow your dear mother’s quote, shall change one word in it, guess which!!!
Mr. Rowland your arrogance is beyond belief and guess what? Only God has the right to judge who goes to heaven or who goes to hell. What makes you think you that you have a one way ticket to heaven? I know I’m sinner and I know that God loves me and will judge me accordingly. Be careful about being judgemental because Barack Obama could go to heaven and you could go to hell. My mother, God rest her soul, was a devout Catholic who had this to say about religious fanatics: ” Religious fanatics are hypocrites who eat saints and excrete devils.”
CeCi: How do you manage to say you are pro-life and plan to vote for an abortionist like Obama? Just don’t try to claim you are Catholic. Free will for you appears to be a curse. Salvation is not open to luke-warm “Catholics” in name only. EWTN speaks for the Catholic Church and God – Would you follow the Democrat Party to Hell? That is where supporting abortion surely leads.
@CeCi Castillo
“I’m still going to vote for him because Social Security and affordable health care and ending the war in Afghanistan are also very important to me and my family.”
These are prudential judgment issues, not intrinsic evil as abortion is. But lets put that aside. As a Catholic that doesn’t like being “told” what to believe, you are going to vote for a person who is telling Catholics and the Church they have to do things against their religion whether they like it or not? You are going to vote for a man, because of your “family,” who is single handily trying to dismantle our Constitutional First Amendment Rights? You are going to vote for a man who tells one lie after another, who has plans he won’t reveal to us now, but tells the President of Russia he has a better deal for them that he can’t talk about until after his election? You’re going to vote for a man who is bankrupting our country and your family’s future?
Nobody is saying you have to vote for a Republican or anybody who calls them self “prolife.” But for God’s sake, don’t vote for a party and a person Obama has shown himself to be that not only promotes the murder of unborn children, he supports the murder of BORN children, too, and he promotes class envy, racial hatred, and covets others property, while killing jobs in America as he gives billions of our taxpayers dollars to his financial contributing buddies to blow on companies that fail. This is a person you think cares about YOUR family’s healthcare and your financial future while he is taking your decisions on those matters away from you?
Holly and Leslie I’m in complete agreement with your posts. Most of the people who claim to be “devout Catholics” on these boards are fanatics lacking in true Christian charity. Many of the comments made about President Obama and Catholics who support him are extremely vile. I’m pro-life and President Obama is pro-choice and while I disagree with him on these issues, I’m still going to vote for him because Social Security and affordable health care and ending the war in Afghanistan are also very important to me and my family. Whatsmore this is a free country and President Obama is entitled to his opinion and so am I. I’ve come to the conclusion that The National Catholic Register EWTN are fronts and mouthpieces for the Republican party.
@Holly. Please do not allow those commenting on this site to come between you and the Catholic Church. The Church is as much yours as it is theirs; you are as much a part of the Body of Christ on Earth as any of them. God knows your heart. I pray that you not be alienated from your faith. The Church needs you!
Holly you not only disagree with the Holy Father about abortion but have a problem with supporting traditional marriage that would put you in the classification of a cafeteria catholic. Why have decades and trillions of dollars spent on the poverty programs designed by democrats produced even more poor? You see Holly the dirty little secret is the dems win elections by keeping people on the government poverty plantation.
CeCi: Those so called Catholics who voted for Obama and abortion in the last election automatically excommunicated themselves. I had nothing to do with that judgment. My hope is that they will make amends and become practicing Catholics again. A Catholic who does not believe in the Real
Presence is not a practicing Catholic and commits a sacrilege if they receive Communion. I have nothing to do with that judgment either.
Thank you for understanding that I am not a fake. I again apologize for creating any misunderstanding using the term “registered.”
However, I don’t need to be convinced to be pro-life; I AM pro-life. I do agree with the words I say in the creed in Mass every week. But I simply disagree that this means I must vote for any candidate who claims to be pro-life, particularly when they give me little indication that they truly feel that way (such as Romney.) I spoke about this issue with my priest, who at the time was leading the most traditional parish in my diocese and is our diocesan Director of Seminarians. There is no one who would meet him and say that he’s liberal. And yet when I told him about my dilemma, he said that there is no reason a Catholic must vote for a candidate who claims to be pro-life, but that we cannot vote for a candidate on the basis that he *would* protect abortion rights. In other words, if I vote for Obama because he is ending the war, that’s acceptable, but if I vote for him because he’s pro-choice, that’s not.
However, I am taking all these comments to heart. I haven’t felt particularly welcome in any Catholic parish since I converted in 2008 and the members of this site are my only exposure to hear the views of other Catholics. I can only assume that you guys are what a Catholic really is and I don’t agree with the majority of the views here. The fact that you’re saying that being a Democrat is completely incompatible with the Catholic religion may be that’s a sign that I would be better off in the Episcopal church.
It is my understanding that every major city in America that had had a long-standing Mayor in the Democart party is also a city with the highest rate of poverty, drugs,, gangs, etc.
CeCi, wer’e not electing our pope, wer’e electing our president and Ronney’s character is 1000 times better than Obama’a, beside the fact that Obama is just in way over his head.
Wow Mr. Rowland who died and made you judge and jury???? “LET THOSE WHO ARE WITHOUT SIN CAST THE FIRST STONE”
@Holly
“Abortion is not the only issue of conscience that can matter to a devout Catholic.”
Here is what a truly “devout Catholic” has to say about what you said in the above quote. “...at all times and in all places, the Church should have the true freedom to teach the faith, to proclaim its teaching about society, to carry out its task among men without hindrance, and to pass moral judgment even in matters relating to politics, whenever the fundamental rights of man or the salvation of souls requires it (no. 76 Pastoral Constitution on the Church in the Modern World).”
“Pope John Paul II elaborates on this responsibility in his 1988 apostolic exhortation, The Vocation and the Mission of the Lay Faithful in the Church and in the World (Christifideles Laici):‘The inviolability of the person which is a reflection of the absolute inviolability of God, finds its primary and fundamental expression in the inviolability of human life. ABOVE ALL, THE COMMON OUTCRY, WHICH IS JUSTLY MADE ON BEHALF OF HUMAN RIGHTS - FOR EXAMPLE, THE RIGHT TO HEALTH, TO HOME, TO WORK, TO FAMILY, TO CULTURE - IS FALSE AND ILLUSORY IF THE RIGHT TO LIFE, THE MOST BASIC AND FUNDAMENTAL RIGHT AND THE CONDITION OF ALL OTHER PERSONAL RIGHTS, IS NOT DEFENDED WITH MAXIMUM DETERMINATION….’”
(my emphasis).(Copied from Living The Gospel Of Life: A Challenge to American Catholics, a Statement from the U.S. Catholic Bishops).
All “the common outcry, which is justly made on behalf of human rights - is false and illusory if the right to life…is not defended with maximum determination.”
How is supporting the pro-abortion political party and their candidates defending the right to life with maximum determination?
How important is your word to you in professing to believe God is the giver of life, and praying for his will to be done on earth in Mass on Sundays? Does God create life to be aborted? Is God in contradiction with Himself? Or are you and your husband in contradiction with what you say you believe and pray for with your own mouths?
OK Holly, I was out of line, and I apologize. Please understand that ‘registered’ is a loaded term, it seems that you meant ‘member’ of a parish. Now about Social Justice: Support by church leaders of ‘social justice’ was and is is a terrible mistake. In a Federal context Social Justice means the gov’t takes care of the poor. We are each to “Love one another… to “Love our neighbor as ourselves” this means that we are each individually responsible for each other. Making it the gov’t responsibility is a way of shirking our duty, in short a cop-out.
Oh, and for those holding Reagan and Bush in the same vein as pro-choicers for not ending abortion, please. Prudence and discretion in the executive branch is at the heart of the American republican system. The POTUS has no authority to end abortion, and Reagan certainly challenged Congress to end it (and c’mon, Tip O’Neill was speaker. No way he would have ended it)
@Pesqueira, what are you talking about? Even though Satan doesn’t get the child, he has the adults in his grasp, and abortion is, in my view, today’s form of sacrifice to Moloch, the demon of death (see the Old Testament, Celtic, and Aztec rituals of human sacrifice. There are some preternatural evil parallels at work.)
I can’t understand those who vote for those politicians who support abortion, particularly Catholics who flout Church teaching. (There’s a difference between struggling with the teaching and openly opposing it by promoting abortion.) The proportional reasoning cited in “Faithful Citizenship” is only an opinion of a group of bishops, and I believe Abp Chaput defined a proportional reason as one we can tell the victims of abortion on judgment day without hesitation. His point was that there really is not a good reason to vote for pro-abortion politicians, but circumstances such as the other candidate holding a more egregious record on life and family may force this.
And the Catholic vote in the US is a myth. I mean, it was largely Democratic-leaning for decades (especially from the New Deal to the Great Society. But white flight and the rise of white Catholics in socioeconomic standing diversified this. Part of this is probably that Catholics of primarily non-Spanish European descent are not ethnically homogeneous outside their communities, and don’t have shared opposition, except to nativists.
Contrast this to the UK, where all Catholics felt slighted, and rightly so, by the monarchy, the aristocracy, and the industrial middle-class. Hence, Chesterbelloc leaned towards the Liberal Party based on opposition to monarchy, and the working-class supported Liberal and Labour, especially the Irish, who would never vote Conservative and Unionist. I think a unified front on Catholic social teaching and foundation of rights is needed. If we all have the same base of moral and intellectual foundation, then the Catholic vote would actually exist. Not gonna happen though, since Catholics are no longer predominantly working-class.
Oh and Ron Paul? Please; Austrian economics are not compatible w/ Christian doctrine. von Mises said so himself. And Paul would use the same interference in the judicial branch that got us to Roe to end abortion. Hypocrite.
This election is extremely important because we will vote either to maintain a free, capitalist society or a socialist society with further constraints on our freedoms, including freedom of religion. We need only look to Europe, where recently two women were ordered not to wear to work chains with crosses, and to Canada, where religious broadcasting is prohibited—to cite only two examples out of many religious prohibitions. What will we exchange our freedoms for? Social programs that, ultimately, will bankrupt the country. Nevertheless, I predict that Obama will be reelected by an uneducated populace that values its government checks and free cheeses over its freedom of speech, religion, right to bear arms, etc., and many Catholics will be part of that group.
Using the term “registered” is the not the term that was confusing. One “registers” with the parish OFFICE, nothing to do with whether one is a true Catholic or not. Yes, I am sure if we are “registered” with our church office, we are getting envelopes and share our treasure with our parish. We know what it means.
You have to understand, many people are impostors who come on this blog and try to cause issues. Feedback and comment are healthy ways to learn our faith with others. There are a lot of really knowledgeable, conservative Catholics out there we can learn from.
The main issue here is life itself. You should reread some of the comments posted by pro-life people in this blog.
As I stated twice, and I will do so for your benefit Holly, once again, is that NOTHING is more important than life issues. There is NO SOCIAL JUSTICE without life.
Our Pope’s have conveyed this to their flocks for years. Did you know that abortion was rejected by Protestant folks, until the 60’s? They knew it was intrinsically wrong.
The Catholic Vote is somewhat nebulous because in the wake of VCII, belief in the Real Presence has gone from near 100 percent before the council to an estimated 25 percent after VCII dissidents initiated Communion in the hand to breed at best indifference. It would shatter truth to say that any apostates Obama has selected is a practicing Catholic. When 75 percent of those who claim to be Catholics no longer believe in the Real Presence,the number of sacrilegious Communions must be almost astronomical.
These are the ones who helped elect a socialist President. You can’t call that a Catholic vote, but you can certainly call it a prime scandal. Lets hope they decide to again become Catholics and vote Obama out this time.
I realize that a lot of the posters here think that Mitt Romney is the best choice for Preident and of course that is
that is your right. However, as a life long Catholic who was born and raised in Salt Lake City, be careful what you wish for. The politicians here in Utah get their orders from the hierarchy of the LDS Church and Mitt Romney is an LDS bishop. Mormons literally believe that Jesus Christ decided that He had made a mistake in founding the Catholic Church, appeared to Joseph Smith, and ordered him to establish a new church, The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints. I can tell you that growing up in Utah as a Catholic AND Mexican American was no easy task. Every aspect of Mormon life was shoved down our throats and Catholics were constantly being ridiculed. There was a time my father when being interviewed for a job was asked what his religion was. Luckily for my dad the interviewer liked him and hired him. Thanks to the EOEB asking for a person’s race or religion is against the law. Now most of the LDS people I know are very decent people and very charitable and things have changed in that Mormons are much more tolerant. However they do take the words of Jesus very seriously in going forth to teach all nations because they are winning converts by the thousands and just dedicated their new temple in Rome right on our Holy Father’s doorstep. So if you think that President Obama is trying to take our religious freedoms away think again because Mitt Romney definitely will.
By “registered Catholic” I meant that I signed up with my parish when I moved to a new one from the one in which I was baptized and confirmed. I assure you that I’m really Catholic, even if you didn’t understand what I meant by ‘registered.’
You don’t register with your parish? Then how do you get collection envelopes in the mail? Sheesh, all the people claiming I’m “not a Catholic” just because I said I’m registered? When I moved from the parish in which I was baptized and confirmed, I registered my family there as members. I can assure you that I’m Catholic, but I’m sorry I used a term that you didn’t understand.
Terry Mattingly, editor of the GetReligion blog, offered the best analysis of the “Catholic” vote I’ve seen.
http://www.getreligion.org/2008/10/catholic-vote-vs-catholic-voters/
Mattingly’s point is that there are really SEVERAL different “Catholic votes,” each with its own demographics and its own tendencies. His summary is that there are:
1) Ex-Catholics. Solid for the Democrats. GOP has no chance.
2) Cultural Catholics who may go to church a few times a year. This may be an undecided voter — check out that classic Atlantic Monthly tribes of American religion piece — depending on what is happening with the economy, foreign policy, etc. Leans to Democrats.
3) Sunday-morning American Catholics. This voter is a regular in the pew and may even play some leadership role in the parish. This is the Catholic voter that is really up for grabs, the true swing voter that the candidates are after.
4) The “sweats the details” Roman Catholic who goes to confession. Is active in the full sacramental life of the parish and almost always backs the Vatican, when it comes to matters of faith and practice. This is where the GOP has made its big gains in recent decades, but it is a very small slice of the American Catholic pie.
Veritas, I want to thank you for your comments regarding the budget, HHS etc. Also, I agree the “Holly” is not a Catholic. I never heard of a “registered Catholic”. Those of you who are commenting are educating many poorly catechized out there. I was one until I read the Catechism of the Catholic church. With that, we in the trenches to uphold “life” in all stages are under attack. The devil loves division, causes weakness. (we see that with the “Catholic vote”.) Bishops are human too, don’t you think the same divisive tactics are being used with them? Pray for them.
I think they are more afraid at times of losing their tax free status, than speak the truth. I am sure this administration is holding that over their heads.
Again, without life there are no social issues! No poor, no economy, no immigration, etc.
Keep up the good fight everyone! Pray for this country.
John wrote: There is no way 46% of “very religious” Catholics support Obama. I have yet to meet one.
You should meet my husband, then. He prays the rosary at least once a day, teaches catechism classes to fifth graders, and goes to weekday Mass every time he gets a day off work. He even went to Mass on his birthday last year because that was one of the ways he wanted to honor his birthday, and he insists on finding a place to go to Mass while on vacation in other states. And yet he voted for Obama, and will do so again. Abortion is not the only issue of conscience that can matter to a devout Catholic.
I am a “registered” Catholic in that I filled out paperwork for my family to be an official member in my parish. I donate money regularly to my collection, or at least I did until I found out that my diocese was donating money to a campaign to block gay marriage. (Most people in my parish don’t know that their collection money is going to that cause either, they thought it was going to help the poor and fund the operations of the parish, as I did. Silly us!)
I was only old enough to vote in my first election in 1992, so forgive me for not being completely up on all the details about what happened in 1993. My point remains the same, that I believe that many or even most of the Republicans who claim to be “pro-life” are doing so as a political bargaining chip and won’t actually significantly fight to overturn abortion. They’re playing the voters for suckers.
When I converted to Catholicism years ago it was largely because I was drawn to the Church’s stance on social justice issues. However, since I converted it seems like the Church grows steadily away from those social justice issues and even supposedly faithful-to-the-Magesterium Catholics try to say the Iraq War was a “just war” despite the fact that even the Pope didn’t think so. If you want to know why so many pew spaces at Mass are empty, THAT’S why. It’s not because people care less about God or only want to serve themselves, but because the US Catholic media is trying to tell us that the only right way to be truly Catholic is to be politically conservative. If you read the Catechism it doesn’t support the American right wing agenda at all, but many people here conveniently ignore the parts of the catechism that they don’t like.
Bishop Stephen Blaire it has been over a week now since the GAO knocked the HHS for for inappropriately spending “demonstration projects” monies to delay Obamacare’s politically dangerous Medicare cuts—until after Obama’s election. In 2010 you said the Bishops were supportive and Democrats were crowing that Obamacare would “reduce” the deficit. Obamacare got a big chunk of its alleged savings by cutting Medicare spending by $500 billion. Specifically, 12 million seniors using a program called Medicare Advantage will loose $500 billion in support. When are you going to just as publicly jump all over that sterling example of Catholicity Mzz Sebelius for stealing $8.35 billion from HHS funds for “demonstration projects” and instead using it to delay the brunt of these “Medicare Advantage” cuts until after Obama is reelected??? You were quick enough to jump all over a real Catholic Congressman Ryan for wanting to simply slow the growth in government spending. We are waiting ... in the name of “Social Justice” ..... we are waiting .... for you to jump all over Mzz Sebelius and Obama for stealing $8.35 billion from HHS “demonstration projects” funds so that Abortion-Care oops I mean Obamcare and Obama survive this election. If you are not purely Partisan real “Social Justice” demands that you just as publicly just as vociferously come down like a ton of bricks on this latest perfidy. All of the poor including “the immigrants among us” who could of used over $8 billions of dollars for prenatal care for broken limbs for help with medicines etc. etc. in waiting rooms all over this Country are waiting to see if you care about them just as much as you care about defending Obama Democrat spending ... or does the Democrat Party “own” the Catholic Church?
As a practicing Catholic who detests abortion, gay marriage, embryonic stem cell research, euthanasia—ie, the non-negotiable issues—voting for Republicans over Democrats is a no-brainer.
Many of the bishops are finally waking up to the Democrats’ war against religion and family, but others are still clinging to the Democrat Party they remember growing up with. The recent criticism by some bishops of Republican Paul Ryan’s budget, e.g., is not based on Catholic teaching but on those bishops’ prudential judgment. Yet that gets equal coverage as the non-negotiable issues.
There is no one way to address care for the poor but supporting abortion etc. is anti-life and anti-the Author of Life.
As for Obama picking Catholics like Biden and Sebelius to court the Catholic vote, I have a question: how many Catholics even know they are Catholic or even care about that? They, Nancy Pelosi and other anti-life Catholics are a scandal!
The above comments, taken as a whole, clearly demonstrate that there is no such thing as a “Catholic vote.” Many Catholics, like much of the electorate, are not deep thinkers and are unable to see the interrelationship among major economic and societal issues that are relevant.
It is unfortunate that most of our Bishops have not been wise leaders.
Baloney Holly, What absolute hogwash! There is no such thing as a “registered” Catholic, never has been. I suspect that you are no Catholic, I suspect that you Holly are a liar.
It amazes me that many contributors who probably believe they are Catholics speak about abortion and social justice as items to be equally important. The Magisterium of the Church which includes our Popes call abortion a grave evil that can never be supported by Cathoics, and can never be counter ballanced away by any social justice good one can can perform. It’s shameful that over 50% of Catholics ignore this truth for personal gain when they vote. As for who supports abortion consider who abolished the Mexico City agreement on his second day in office. Consider who spreading abortion around the world by spending one billion dollars per year to do so. Ask who has tightened up rules exposing Catholic professionas to harm when performing abortions against their wills.Who has just added a high level pro abortion specialist from Planned Parenthood to the Sebelius staff ? Ask who duped Notre Dame into supporting his campaign for election? The Bishops seem to avoid giving more specific guidance to all of us on supporting the Faith in elections. If they improved here I am sure the CAtholic vote would be drastically different.
Holly apparently hasn’t been paying attention very long, Roe v wade would have been overturned in 1993 if Reagan appointee, pro-life Robert Bork would have been on the court, but because the democrats said terrible lies about him during conformation hearings (led by Ted Kennedy) Reagan was forced to nominate Anthony Kennedy, a moderate who was the deciding vote to keep Roe v wade legal. I don’t think it’s possible to be catholic and vote democrat at this time. We will all be judged on what we did to stop this holocaust and if we voted for a pro-abortion candidate over a pro-life candidate, it won’t be pretty.
Right on Elizabeth and WSquared - you have spoken the truth well.
I’m not at all in conflict with what is described as the “catholic vote.” I do not believe there is a true catholic vote or has there been for many years. I would even have questions with what type of catholic vote that voted JFK into office despite the fact that the entire family tried to cop a deal with the bishops that placated the church’s teaching on birth control in order to get him (them) elected in 1959. While many bishops do not want to marginalize the immigrant, I frankly do not think that illegal immigration should be an issue for the Catholic faith but for the individual catholic practitioner. After all, the immigrant is illegal by our own laws, individual immigration situations are different from a national immigration policy that only wants to legalize the immigrant as a citizen in order to barter their vote. I suspect that the true catholic vote is an illusion, one that is based on pro-life, but a strong national identity that protects families from the encroachment of progressive thought, equality of the sexes and races, protection of the LEGAL alien, etc. We can be strong as catholics, but as my Deacon, a practicing lawyer, says privately, “I can’t vote for a republican, they are all nuts.” With that opinion, how can we, as a pew catholic, become more like Christ in our actions?
Holly I totally agree with you. Thank you.
We must obey God rather than men. The Catholic vote, by whose standards? Mainly the secularist media feeding propaganda with “half truth” poll numbers and information to “woo” us while we get psychologically bombarded with confusion on our “idiot box televisions”. “WAKE UP PEOPLE”. Jesus Christ is King of Kings and lord of Lords. Abortion is murder, marriage is a unity of one man and one woman.
I get accused of only using abortion issues for a candidate. If a life in a womb is of no value, then any other issue is irrelevant, no matter how much money, status quo, “bandwagon poll numbers”,“race cards” are put up front.
I attended a religious freedom rally in downtown Sarasota, FL back in March. I also support Bishop Daniel Jenky for his stand at Notre Dame. If we continue to stay “drunk on the wine” of the “world” this country will continue its path toward the slavery of socialism, totalitarianism and utilitarianism. Read Karl Marx Communist Manifesto. We already see the “dumbing down” more in our country.
Jesus is Lord. God bless
If I may humbly suggest, we as Catholics are called to feed the hungry, cloth the naked, and visit those in hospital and prison. We have been confused in thinking that Jesus told us to elect people to do that, I believe (and live accordingly) that he was speaking directly to me, tellimg me to do these things.
I believe that we must stand for the defense of life, from conception until natural death and that we should point out the distinction on Catholic teaching and how it differs for the abortion issue from the death penalty. One is intrinsically evil, the other should be used in the rarest of circumstances to afford each human person the chance to repent.
If we worked at loving our neighbor instead of asking the government to love him for us, the choice would be very clear.
Holly and Leslie - correction. The question I asked you should have read: “What if the Church comes out and says ‘joining an organization which promotes segregation or ANY OTHER DENIAL of human rights’ is a sin?”
So, a man who believes in multiple gods, and denies the divinity of Christ(thereby denying the Holy Trinity) is the better choice?
There is no way 46% of “very religious” Catholics support Obama. I have yet to meet one.
John
servantofcharity.blogspot.com
First let me say that I do not support abortion but I do support free will. When I consider the abortion issue as delineating good vs evil I have come to conclusion that I cannot allow my vote to be determined solely on this issue.
If you truly believe that the devil is real and that his purpose is to take souls, then you must give real consideration to the fact that the devil is also an anti-abortionist. The rational is that these souls are forever lost to the devil. When we speak of margins, every souls counts in the final determination for mankind’s salvation. Aborted children are exxentially lost souls to the devil and the devil keeps count.
So the simplistic view that politicians that are anti-abortionist do so for religious purposes is a fallacy,
I wish to leave this forum with the following,
“And again I say unto you, It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God.” (Mt. 19:24)
‘Sell what you possess, and give alms. Make for yourselves purses that will not wear out, a treasure that will not fall short, in heaven, where no thief approaches, and no moth corrupts” Luke 12:33
Vote your conscious.
Holly, (and Leslie) you don’t HAVE vote for a Republican. No one is saying that. Read my comment above (the 2nd posted). What you WILL have to answer to God about is why you chose to support the pro-abortion party when it causes you to contradict your OWN WORDS in your “Profession of Faith” and what you “pray for” in church on Sundays. No one is going to heaven for supporting a political party with their name registration and votes. But a whole lot of Catholics will have a lot of explaining to do about why they contradicted THEIR OWN WORDS of what they “PROFESS to BELIEVE” and pray for.
And if being true to your own word isn’t important enough to you, consider this. What if the Church comes out and says “joining an organization which promotes segregation or any other human rights” is a sin? Certainly, there is no greater “human right” than the right to life, wouldn’t you agree? Would that make you realize you can’t vote for the Democrat Party?
I can’t believe any serious Catholic would vote for Obama. Obama even voted for infanticide when holding state office in Illinois. And of course he would legalize gay marriage. He would also stick it to the Catholic Church when it comes to the healthcare mandate. However, many Catholics are not really very religious or well-grounded morally because they haven’t been taught by their priests and bishops or by their parents for that matter, who often failed to hand down the faith. For years Catholics have been like sheep without shepherds. I think that may be changing, but it’s too late for this election. My prediction—Obama wins in a close election, boosted over the top by Catholics—Catholic women especially and those of no faith.
Holly , When I Vote, I will Vote for The Lesser of the wrong that is out there!!! That is what we must do !!! To tell, I’d like very much to vote Jesus for President, but I guess that might be asking too much….. He wants to see if the country has learned anything from this dilemma we’ve gotten ourselves into!!!! Maybe we as a country are suffering because we’ve broken His Laws !!! Yep!!!!!!!! We must ask for forgiveness, do penance and stay on the straight and narrow, or we suffer the consequences of our actions or inactions!!! This country needs to right the wrongs it’s done and I believe Getting rid of Abortion, just might do it !!! It’s GOOD for a start !!! GOD BLESS YOU AND YOURS !!!
@Holly: Thank you. You’ve echoed my thoughts exactly.
In response to Holly’s comment: Jesus “said a whole lot more in the Bible about helping the poor than he did about abortion” because He, the Word-Made-Fless used the dignity of human life as the foundation for His statements. We cannot help the poor if they aren’t alive! Ideas akin to “we must help the poor before we help the babies in utero” are philosophical nonsense because it violates the principles of first and second things.
Additionally, as an historian, I must say that both parties have done a particularly good job at “actively making life harder for the poor.” In fact, the Democrats, since 1964, have won the gold medal in that race. The War on Poverty was a disaster because it only expanded the reach of inefficient government programs. Any time the Democratic party has purported to help America’s poor, it has only been by offering an ineffective handout rather than proper education and tools for a “hand up.”
Jesus our Lord specifically stated that his kingdom do not belong to this world and when prelates Bishops and Cardinals subscribe to the Theology of Liberation caricature of Jesus Christ,and without any given power are disregarding or ignoring the exact words of Christ,then we have to admit than Pride and Arrogance is not only limited to the secular world. One thing is our obligation as chrisians to help the poor and neglected and another thing is change our principles to acommodate a political party.
Please note that even the Republican candidates who ran on allegedly anti-abortion platforms, including both our former Presidents Bush and Reagan, did not outlaw abortion, regardless of what they said in their stump speeches. They are every bit as responsible for the continuance of abortion’s legality as Obama. Furthermore “the Obama administration” is not the cause of abortions, it is the women seeking them who are responsible. Obama did not invent abortion or push through Roe v. Wade, and in terms of what the presidents actually do (not just say they’ll do) George W. Bush was just as implicit. I personally feel that abortion is wrong, but I don’t believe that any Republican candidate for president is really going to do anything about it because it’s too important of a plank in their platform. If abortion is outlawed, all the people who currently vote Republican on that issue alone will then be able to look at both candidates. In many cases I believe the “single-issue voters” voting for Republicans strictly because they claim to be pro-life would not continue to vote that way if abortion was outlawed.
Please also note that Romney was previously very vocally in support of abortion rights. I strongly believe that the fact that he now says he is pro-life is just a political move and he’s playing everyone for a sucker. Elect him and you’ll see, but I would bet every dollar in my bank account (which isn’t much) that abortion will still be just as legal as it is today.
I don’t have a lot of money to give but I volunteer a lot of my time helping the poor. But most people don’t, and that is why I still believe that government needs to provide welfare. Food stamp use is rising because the economy is terrible, but at the same time contributions are down in every single church denomination. If you take away those food stamps, there isn’t going to be anyone who can adequately help all those in need. If you really believe that in the current economy, people can even GET three jobs to support themselves, I dare say neither you nor anyone you know personally has tried to get those jobs. I know a lot of people personally who did work that many jobs to get by, who now cannot earn enough to feed their families. They have the dignity and self-respect and desire to support themselves, but the jobs aren’t there. I do care about the life of the unborn, but unlike what I see from many in the pro-life movement, I ALSO care about what happens to those children once their born, especially into families who can’t afford to feed the kids they’ve already got.
Holly, I am not astonished at your comment because I’ve heard it from some of my relatives myself !!! It breaks my heart, knowing so many catholics are not living and following the tenants of the Catholic Church !!! We all have the free will to Love Jesus And to Follow Him in all His Ways !!!!..........Or Live a life of deception, half truths, selfishness, and blindness!!! We are all human, and capable of doing Good !!! And we are all capable of doing outrageous evil !!! I used to be Democrat, but left as fast as my feet would take me, when I became aware that the Dems were MORPHING into something I morally disagreed with !!! They have attacked our Religious Faith as Christians, They have caused a rift between Classes and Race !!! They say we can Kill our Babies Legally!!! WHAT WOULD GOD SAY ABOUT THIS ??? we ‘ll always have the POOR among us !!! THE Catholic Church and it’s members and many other denominations do a much better job than any government, to give a Hand Up…... not a Hand OUT!!! Otherwise They never pull themselves out of poverty !!! It called Hard Work, discipline, responsibility, and SELF Respect for oneself !!! I know what it was like to be poor, as I come from a family of 11 !!! My father never took welfare…. He worked hard and sometimes worked up to three jobs, just to keep up with raising the family !!! Mind you,... no extras, each of us had one pair of shoes and a lot of hand me downs!!! Not complaining though, will always remember the goodness of a large family caring for each other!!! I say, PRAY THE ROSARY AND ASK GOD AND THE BLESSED VIRGIN MARY TO GUIDE YOU !!!
Holly, how exactly is the issue of abortion and contraception necessarily separate from helping the poor? Jesus also said that “whatsoever you do to the least of these, you do unto me.” It would seem that “the least of these” cannot stand up to speak for themselves. Abortion and contraception have always been concerns of the Catholic Church right from the beginning. The Church Fathers have condemned both. Also at the heart of all of this is the larger question of what a human being is, and what dignity is to be accorded a human being, therefore. Abortion and contraception cuts right to the heart of it, which is why the Church is and always has been concerned about it for 2,000 years: if we get this wrong, we stand to get everything else wrong, too, including helping the poor. Should these issues not concern your or anyone else’s “conscience” as well?
Holly, Jesus spoke of the two greatest commandments. Loving your neighbor means that we, individuals, need to do that and show charity toward the poor. Too many leave it to the government to do that for us. When we meet the Lord will we be able to say, “I did feed and clothe the hungry and naked, Lord, because I paid my taxes”. If you believe that the unborn are not considered part of the “poor” that Jesus spoke of, then you do not understand what the word “poor” encompasses. The only thing the unborn have is “Life” and that is being taken from them by President Obama and his administration. President Obama and his administration speak to China about that country’s poor record with respect to Human Rights all the while not respecting human rights here at home by focusing more on Women’s Rights. A woman’s right to abort her child stops at the unborn’s right NOT TO BE ABORTED. UNBORN CHILDREN ARE THE POOREST OF THE POOR.
I suggest again that each citizen study the issues, get the facts about all the topics in the 2012 election. Immigration from China was opposed in 1904 by the POTUS and the WASPS tried to keep Catholics out of the East Coast, many had to come down through Canada and up the Mississippi- both then under French Catholic rule. The money shovelled to Big Business from Obama and “W” before him cannot be compared to the welfare-child support budget, and NOT all illegal immigrants get that cash. Check the lies that float around the Internet by Left and Right.
So sad to see that some of you are deciding how to vote without having read the GOP budget plan for the next fiscal year, and compared it to the Obama record toward the poor, elderly and health care. I never have voted on the Party but on the issues and the small print the evening news does not provide.
I am a registered Catholic who attends Mass every week and I can tell you that I have no intention of voting Republican, nor do I feel that my conscience forbids me from voting Democratic. Although abortion and contraception may be the only issues that matter to the Catholic church right now, it has not always been the case. Jesus said a whole lot more in the Bible about helping the poor than he did about abortion, and my own Catholic conscience forbids me from voting for candidates who are actively making life harder for the poor.
What I noticed when Barrack Obama was running for President and the Bishops came out with the booklet,
about the catholic vote, catholic women who tended to be democrat were questioning how they should vote. When they read in the Bishops voting book that abortion was not the only issue, that decided it for them.
They voted for Barack Obama. Because these woman are for taking care of the poor and they perceive that the democrat party is better toward the poor. I think that statement was a mistake. We can never be blessed as a country when we are killing the unborn babies.
It is a very confusing situation. I know young Catholic mothers who will continue to vote for the current president and turn around and say they are pro-life and even contribute to the cause. They just don’t understand the platform of the democratic party is NOT pro life. If there is no life there are no “social issues” “The poor will always be with you”, Jesus said. That is, if there people at all. I personally believe that the current administration has made a big mistake underestimating our Catholic community. There may be enough of us voting for religious freedom this fall to make a difference. Other Christian denominations are with us too, they see the writing on the wall that they too can be “next”.
I don’t understand the Catholic Church’s stand on immigration or poverty. God wants us to rely on him and be responsible. The welfare programs in this country do not allow people to grow. Immigrants who cross the border illegally need to be responsible and follow the laws set in this country. Those who do come into this country legally have to go through so much scrunity because of the problems that exist from illegal immigration. Personal responsibility is part and parcel of being a good Catholic in my mind.
As Reagan said,“There you go again.”
You cannot ,in your heart, mention Ron Paul in your discussions. You are no better than FOX,CNN, etc. by blocking any progress of the Ron Paul campaign. As I have reminded you several times, Dr. Paul has more knowledge of Catholic social teachings than the other contenders and he practices them in his personal life as well as in Congress.All you have to do is read his many writings which will open your mind and heart.
Dr.Paul is 100% pro life and has presented several pro-life bills to Congress. Google them.Dr. Paul has two children who are converts to the
Catholic faith. He wrote several columns about John Paul II before and after the pope’s death. He admired John Paul II and totally agreed with
JP II and then Cardinal Ratzinger about war on Iraq.
Now, as he is gathering delegates to the convention he may have your attention as events in Tampa proceed.
If the thousands attending his rallys don’t convince you perhaps you will
be awakened from your slumber in August. If not, the next four years will be exciting because Dr. Paul’s non violent revolution will not go away.
Before we start polling Catholics about their POTUS choices, there is a whole broad field of dogma and moral teachng to be explored. Some was touched on here. People who attend church regularly are provided the opportunity, with good homilies, to tie Revelation, Natural Law and its application to moral issues praqctically. The annual 22 January abortion talk without the whole package of Natural Law being tied to the JESUS as GOD-MAN and we made in God’s image and all humans as images of JESUS is not very practical. Culturally, their family political background, their personality types, rigid/reasonable/flexible are a factor. Even if they are not church-goers now and once were, and raised with basic decent ideas of morality, those are not shed easily. Their being single or married, and their ages and the age of their children are important also because economics and war and government programmes and tax rates impinge on them. The health care debate as noted is also crucial as each generation faces the cost of health care for oneself or a family is a large budget item.
If the “immigrants” are in fact illegal aliens, they should not be voting for Obama or anyone else. They don’t have a right to vote. Our founding fathers made that clear in our documents.
There is not presently a Catholic vote because the Bishops as a group have not defined with any consistency what beliefs should be held by Catholics.
Interesting that Bishop Stephen Blaire, chairman of the USCCB’ Committee on “Domestic Justice and Social Development” is mentioned as immediately speaking for all the Bishops. Bishop Blaire was the key man in killing the effort for a “do over” of the unreadable and so easily and readily misconstrued 45 page ‘Faithful Citizenship’ document that mentions abortion in passing on roughly page 14. Obama, Sebelius, Biden, Cuomo and company “love” this document because they can have and will continue to selectively “mine” it for out of context political cover. Quoting Bishop Blaire “It was quite a challenge to come to a consensus and then bring it to the whole body of bishops, which had never been done before,” Bishop Blaire added. “It was hard fought and well thought out. Since it was a teaching document, we felt it was important to keep it intact.” That decision was reached during “several meetings” involving nine committees — pro-life, migration, education, communications, doctrine, domestic justice, international justice and peace, cultural diversity, and laity, marriage, family life and youth, he said. “It was definitely a general consensus that to reopen it would not have been helpful,” OK so we go forward with what everyone recognizes as a flawed document that like all products of committee is part horse part camel but mostly Democrat donkey. It is important to remember that the revulsion to the corruption of the Renaissance 500 years ago was the seed bed for the Protestant Revolt that has so scarred Western Civilization. Bishop Blaire I have to say comes across to any disinterested observer as a purely partisan Democrat Bishop. His attack on fellow Catholic’s such as Congressman Ryan and his immediate “turn on a dime” support of Secular Democrats says it all. The job of a Bishop or of all Bishops is not to micro-manage but to give CLEAR moral direction to the Faithful. Does this mean the USCCB will be giving another $7 Million Dollar to ACORN this election year?
Black voters see abortion as targeting blacks. Well they should. Abotion was promoted initially by Planned Parenthood as a way to keep the black population in control.
If Catholics have conscience they won’t vote Democrat. Why? Because their word means something to them. Catholics profess to believe God “is the giver of life” in every Sunday Mass. They also pray the only prayer Jesus ever gave us, the Our Father, in which they pray for God’s “will” to “be done on earth.” Voting Democrat contradicts everything they profess to believe and pray for on Sunday. Either God is in contradiction with Himself, or they are. I, for one, believe God is NOT in contradiction with himself, and I chose not to be a Catholic in contradiction with my professed belief and prayers. I registered out of the pro-abortion party. You know what - there is life after leaving the Democrat Party…abundant life as a real believing Catholic.
As much as I hate to say it, the so called “Catholic Vote” is a myth. At a time when so many Catholics are not even practicing, how could anyone think that they’ll miraculously come together as a voting block? BOTH parties trample on Catholic Social Teaching in their own way if you really know what it says. Unfortunately, there is not a party that satisfies those requirements.
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