ALBANY, N.Y. — New York’s Catholic bishops have called on the Empire State’s faithful to renew their appreciation for authentic, sacramental marriage in the wake of New York becoming the sixth and largest state in the country to legalize same-sex “marriage.”
“The Church fought this with everything we had,” said Dennis Poust, spokesman for the New York Catholic Conference, the public-policy arm of the state’s Catholic bishops.
On the night of June 24, the New York Senate passed the Marriage Equality Act by a vote of 33-29 following days of closed-door negotiations between the Senate’s Republican leadership and the Democratic Gov. Andrew Cuomo, who championed the same-sex “marriage” cause and coordinated legislative strategy from his Albany office.
Cuomo signed the law the same night the Senate approved the bill, which had already passed the Democratically controlled General Assembly on June 15. The law will take effect 30 days from the governor’s signature.
Several senators who had previously voted against legalizing same-sex “marriage” in 2009 changed their votes this time around after what opponents of the measure said were weeks of intense campaigning by the homosexual lobby, which outspent the opposition and enjoyed the backing of celebrities and wealthy individuals such as Michael Bloomberg, the billionaire mayor of New York City.
“We were outgunned in terms of money, and money buys a lot of things, including votes,” said Poust.
Michael Long, the chairman of the Conservative Party of New York State who opposed the Marriage Equality Act, said four Republican senators who voted for the bill will never again have his party’s endorsement.
“We’ve got to let the dust settle, but the first thing we have to do is replace four senators,” Long said.
The four Republicans Long mentioned by name were James Alesi of Monroe County, Roy McDonald of Saratoga County, Stephen Saland of Columbia and Dutchess counties, and Mark Grisanti, who represents parts of Erie and Niagara counties.
Cuomo, Bloomberg and other high-profile same-sex “marriage” supporters personally lobbied the senators for their votes.
Though some observers, such as Long, suspected that the governor offered favors in exchange for legislative support, Alesi told WHAM TV in Rochester that he received no deal and that his decision came down to civil rights.
“I made a deal with myself — and that I would be true to my heart and true to myself. That’s the deal I made,” Alesi said.
Saland and Grisanti released prepared statements in which they explained that they came to support the legislation after wrangling with the arguments and reaching the conclusion that the bill was a matter of basic fairness and justice.
Saland said: “My intellectual and emotional journey has at last ended. I must define doing the right thing as treating all persons with equality in the definition of law as it pertains to marriage. To do otherwise would fly in the face of my upbringing.”
McDonald did not issue a statement on his vote, and his office did not return an e-mail seeking comment.
Grisanti said he believed that “all New Yorkers should be entitled to the same rights that come with a civil marriage.” He also said he voted for the bill after analyzing late amendments that provided exemptions for churches, synagogues, mosques and their affiliated organizations so that they would not have to ordain or materially cooperate with same-sex “marriage.”
“Passage of this bill now rather than later ensures that these protections be included,” Grisanti said.
Religious Exemptions
Senate Republicans negotiated with Cuomo over the religious-exemption language. Observers said those amendments gave the Republican lawmakers political cover to support the legislation.
The exemptions say that clergy who oppose same-sex unions do not have to preside over such wedding ceremonies, and that their refusal to do so will not create a civil claim or cause for action by the state.
Religiously affiliated corporations will not have to provide services to same-sex couples, while benevolent organizations such as the Knights of Columbus are exempted from having to rent out banquet halls and facilities for same-sex weddings.
New Yorkers United for Marriage, a coalition of five homosexual-rights organizations that worked with the governor to pass the bill, issued a statement endorsing the amended exemption language ahead of the Senate vote.
The statement said: “The amended ‘Marriage Equality’ legislation protects religious liberties without creating any special exceptions that would penalize same-sex couples or treat them unequally. The legislation strikes an appropriate balance that allows all loving, committed couples to marry while preserving religious freedom.”
Donna Lieberman, executive director of the New York Civil Liberties Union, which supported the Marriage Equality Act, said the religious exemptions were in line with other states’ laws that have already legalized same-sex “marriage.”
“It’s very narrowly limited to corporations and entities under religious control,” Lieberman said. “We don’t see this as creating new rights that would be inappropriate. We’re confident that the law as written will survive any legal challenges.”
Opponents of the act, which as written would be nullified if a judge rules any part of it to be unconstitutional, say the religious-exemption protections are inadequate.
“What man puts into a law, man can take out,” Long said. “What happens in legislatures, a liberal judge can rule unconstitutional.”
“The extra language does nothing to protect individuals, such as individual business owners or licensed Catholic marriage counselors who may have religious objections to same-sex ‘marriage,’” Poust said.
“These are exemptions to a terrible policy that will further break down marriage and family. It’s a tragedy, no matter how much they try to throw us a bone.”
Rev. Duane Motley, Baptist minister and founder and senior lobbyist of New Yorkers for Constitutional Freedoms, and other evangelical Christians lobbied Albany lawmakers for weeks to vote against the measure. Motley said the law’s religious exemptions “don’t do anything.”
“All they did was embellish the language that was already there,” he said. “They don’t protect faith-based agencies that are not under a church umbrella. There is no protection for individuals like town clerks or justices of the peace or for florists, photographers, caterers, ex-gay counseling services. It’s no good at all.”
No Plans to Challenge Law
Motley was especially critical of what he felt was an inadequate and halfhearted lobbying effort from New York’s Catholic community.
“They were certainly not out in front,” he said. “They claimed their bishops made some phone calls, and that may have been, but I see no evidence that it swayed anybody. It would have done more good for them to be seen up there [in Albany], touching flesh, meeting people one-on-one.”
A June 25 New York Times news analysis on the same-sex “marriage” drive said that the Catholic Church, “arguably the only institution with the authority and reach to derail same-sex marriage, seemed to shrink from the fight.”
The Times reported that Cuomo had taken steps to “blunt” the Church’s opposition and that he even invited Church lawyers to his office to vent their frustrations with the bill. The article noted that New York Archbishop Timothy Dolan left the state before lawmakers took up the bill. The archbishop, president of the U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops, presided over the bishops’ General Assembly meeting in Seattle June 15-17. Archbishop Dolan called into an Albany radio station to argue against the bill and had Brooklyn Bishop Nicholas DiMarzio to New York meet with lawmakers.
The Times further said: “It was clear the Church had been outmaneuvered by the highly organized same-sex marriage coalition, with its sprawling field team, and, especially, its Wall Street donors.”
Poust said The Times’ article was “not accurate” in saying the Church had been outmaneuvered; he also said he had been quoted out of context when commenting on the bill’s opponents being “outgunned” in terms of money.
“We had thousands and thousands of Catholics from every legislative district calling senators, emailing senators. Their offices were flooded with calls and emails from our people. That’s how we get things done,” Poust said.
With fewer lawmakers professing an orthodox Catholic faith, Poust said the aim was having enough constituents telling their senators to not vote for the Marriage Equality Act.
“We’re past the point that a single bishop can stop a bill,” Poust said, adding that the Catholic bishops have no current plans to challenge the law.
Instead, on June 27, the state’s bishops issued an eight-paragraph statement to Catholic New Yorkers expressing their “deep disappointment” with the legislative outcome, but adding that they were “heartened by the vigor with which so many faithful Catholic New Yorkers fought to preserve the true meaning of marriage.”
The bishops said: “While our culture seems to have lost a basic understanding of marriage, we Catholics must not. ... Let this moment where marriage is being attacked from without become a moment of renewal from within — in our Church, in our communities and in our families — where marriage is indelibly marked by fidelity, sacrifice and the mutual love of husband and wife leading to children.”
Register correspondent Brian Fraga writes from New Bedford, Massachusetts.
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Until our Bishops are united in following the teachings of the Church, there will be this kind of scandal. If ‘Catholic’ politicians like Pelosi, Sebelius, Biden, Kennedy, Daschle, Dodd, et al, are permitted to advocate for the killing of unborn babies and still be considered Catholics in good standing thereby being permitted to receive the Holy Eucharist, then nothing will change except for those ‘Catholic’ politicians to embolden other ‘Catholic’ politicians to go against the teachings of the Church especially in key areas like abortion and same sex marriage. Cuomo is publicly flaunting the Church by living openly with his mistress and now legalizing same sex marriage. In England, Tony Blair was received into the Catholic Church while continuing to advocate for abortion and same sex marriage, as does his wife. it seemed that the Church there considered it an honor and a privilege to have Blair received into the Church. Joe Biden not only supports and advocates for abortion rights in the United States but he went to Africa to exploit the people there, telling the government that if they would permit abortion rights in their constitution then the money would flow, despite the fact that the African people begged that they not be forced to have their babies killed in order to receive the help they so desperately need!!! Shame on Biden - shame on Pelosi! but more shame on the Bishops who allow this to continue. If politicians were openly molesting children or working to make molesting children legal, there would be a huge outcry because that is politically correct but when they strongly advocate for abortion, for the killing of human babies - the bishops remain divided as to the consequences. Without consequences, these politicians, like young children, consider that what they are doing conforms to Christ’s teachings and so they not only go on doing the same thing, but push hard and do more vile things. And the Bishops allowing them to receive the Eucharist as Catholics in good standing with the Church, cuts off the opportunity for conversion on the parts of these politicians…there is more concern over animal rights than over human rights…we are witnessing the genocide of the human race - generations of humans slaughtered in the womb and we stand silently by and do nothing…
Not to mention the fact that our Constitution provides for the protection of our Right to practice our Religion in public as well as in private, and the fact that to engage in or condone demeaning sexual acts that do not respect our inherent dignity as human persons, is to deny the unalienable Right of all persons to be treated with Dignity and Respect.
Congress does not have the authority to deny us our Right to practice our Faith in private as well as in public, nor does Congress have the right to deny any person their Civil Right to be treated with Dignity and Respect, by affirming a form of sexual relationship that does not respect our inherent Dignity as human persons.
No amount of money can change the self-evident truth that the Right of every person to be treated with Dignity and Respect from the moment of Conception is priceless because our unalienable Rights have been endowed to us from God.
I keep seeing this mentioned by clergy while they’re campaigning against equal rights: ““We strongly uphold the Catholic Church’s clear teaching that we always treat our homosexual brothers and sisters with respect, dignity and love. “
Can someone tell me how they are treating homosexuals with “respect dignity and love”?
It certainly was a tremendous blow when the Senate Repubs. only met with liberals championing the bill, and shut out the religious groups who were fighting to get in the room and speak to the senators who were on the fence. And once again, liberals interfered with another branch or level of govt. Cuomo pushed to get the bill to the floor, when he doesn’t set the legislative agenda. The NY Legislature does…in a better world, he would have let the bill die without being the big,arrogant, *&#@%$ bully that he is. Bloomberg also leaves a bad taste in my mouth, by lobbying the way he did-he’s way richer than most of the religious right, and he’s also the mayor of NYC. Unless it pertained to funding for NYC, he shouldn’t have lobbied so extensively.
The religious exemptions are typical of the ‘freedom of worship’ mentality that liberal lawyers e.g. Obama tend to hold. Nowhere outside of your house of worship or your directly affiliated entity can you practice your faith. I think many organizations (those not affiliated with a church directly) in NY and elsewhere should start looking around to see if they can brought under the umbrella of churches or religious charities if they don’t wish to provide services to homosexuals. Also, I feel horrible that those in business have no religious protections.
This should be the last straw for the bishops on Cuomo recieving Holy Communion. He not only lives in sin openly, and supports policies that go against the Church’s teachings, but he openly designs and implements those ideas.
@freye unfortunately, there isn’t a short answer to your question. The Catholic Church teachers, and has always taught, that through revelation given by the Spirit, and the ability to reason that God gave us, love, as for purposes of marriage, have always been between a man and a woman. This is seen very clearly in our human biology, as man as designed as a giver and woman a receiver. Therefore, anything that deviates from this original plan, would be a disorder, much the same way, that a person who either physically or mentally has a problem with their DNA is said to be disordered. This isn’t a statement of condemnation, but merely a statement that the person is not ordered in the Natural way things usually are. Again, not saying they are loved any less by God, there was just something that happened to make them disordered. Therefore, to really hold someone to respect, dignity and love, is to call them to fulfill this order as the best they possibly can. Now, in the case of a physical or mental disorder, obviously, we do what we can to help them live normally. Much like those who have a sexual disorder, and this can range from homosexuality to someone who is addicted to pornography to someone a heterosexual couple that uses each other and does not truly, nor authentically love each other, the Church calls them to live as close to the natural order as possible. This may seem like an “unloving” thing to do because for most people today “love” means to let people do whatever they want, but Christ’s love was one that always called people to live the to the natural order of things while still meeting them where they were. To my knowledge, and I could be wrong, science has yet to define whether it is ‘nature’ or ‘nurture’ or a combination that brings about homosexuality. Irregardless, to truly love, respect and give diginity to a person, you must hold them to the truest definition of love, which means sex inside a loving, committed relationship open to children from God. I believe that homosexuals can be in loving, committed relationships, but they cannot accept children from God in the natural sense because you cannot give what you don’t have. Two men cannot produce a child naturally, nor can two women. We must love enough to affirm the person, but call them to higher standards. And I know this seems unfair because it would allow for no sexual release, but you must remember that there is more to life than sex, and we all have our crosses to bear. I love my brothers and sisters in Christ, whether they be heterosexual or homosexual, enough to call them to the highest standard of living. I hope you continue to search for Truth. God bless you.
Respect, dignity, and love are not antithetical to opposition.
The Church stands for traditional marriage, marriage between a man and a woman. We were created ‘male and female’ - the male and female bodies complement each other. A key does not complement/fit into another key nor does a lock complement/fit into another lock. The Church respects and stands for everyone’s equality but does not stand for those things that go against the law of God or against the ‘natural order’ - men trying to have sex with men or women with women is unnatural - but the Church does respect and cherish all men and women, whoever they are, while calling each of us to live and to love according to the teachings of the Church. Love is never wrong - it’s only the ‘expressions’ of love that have to be structured and disciplined. A man may love a married woman but is not permitted to have sex with her; nor are men and women outside of marriage supposed to engage in sexual activity. Sure, many do but that is not how we are called to live. There are brothers who want to have sex with their sisters, claiming love gives them a right to do so, but what we often call love is simply lust - homosexuals may seem to be singled out but that might be because they want to demand rights and have parades where they demand rights and engage in sexual activity publicly during those parades - so answers are given to their demands. A man who wants to commit adultery and who gathers with other adulterers to demand that others accept their right to do this would be answered also; no one is perfect, we all struggle with temptation - but the answer isn’t to demand that the Church make those temptations acceptable - the answer is to do one’s best to resist those temptations, asking God’s help and the help of others. We all need to do this, not just homosexuals, or adulterers or child molesters..all of us struggle and all of us need help in the struggle…
“Congress does not have the authority to deny us our Right to practice our Faith in private as well as in public”
It’s a shame that it doesn’t even occur to some that same-sex couples have a right to practice their beliefs too.
How can one claim religious freedom allows them to tell others how to run their personal lives? How does someone living their own life they way they choose get in they way of another practicing their religion?
Dear readers: Has it occurred to you that the same God who created you heterosexual also created others homosexual? When He did that, He did not deprive that minority group of the capacity for love and commitment. Do consider the possibility that it was the Holy Spirit who guided the legislature in spite of the contrary ‘traditional’ notions of the bishops.
Jayne B said, “How does someone living their own life they way they choose get in they way of another practicing their religion?”
It’s not someone doing something in the privacy of their own home that directly interferes with others, but rather enshrining aberrant behavior in the law that creates the conflict you question. One has to look no further than the other states and countries which have previously granted legal recognition to same-sex unions to see it. In Massachusetts, other states and the UK, faith-based adoption agencies have been discriminated against and usually left with no choice but to violate the teachings of their faith by placing children in paradoxical situations with same-sex couples or closing their doors. In Canada same-sex “marriage” has led to restrictions on free speech and the investigation of a priest for merely preaching Catholic doctrine. In Sweden it resulted in a Christian pastor being sentenced to a month in prison for violating a thought crime similar to Canada’s. And a UK couple recently had their application to be foster parents denied on the grounds that their Christian faith’s teachings on homosexual practice are “inimical to the interests of children.”
“Motley was especially critical of what he felt was an inadequate and halfhearted lobbying effort from New York’s Catholic community.
“They were certainly not out in front,” he said. “They claimed their bishops made some phone calls, and that may have been, but I see no evidence that it swayed anybody. It would have done more good for them to be seen up there [in Albany], touching flesh, meeting people one-on-one.”
Read more: http://www.ncregister.com/daily-news/same-sex-marriage-postmortem/#ixzz1QbV5OUJG
I am not surprised. You canno eat your cake and have it. When Bishops dine and celebrate with these guys instead of been on the side of the masses then it becomes difficult to really stand up against them when the time is ripe. Same everywhere…..we Catholics are yet to practice the separation of Church and state whereas the State is fully guiding its side of the separation each time they have to. WE claim numbers, doctrines, but these numbers and no practice of these sound doctrines makes the Catholic Church a toothless bulldog.
And why is it that those whose religion allows same-sex marriage should not be allowed to practice their own beliefs?
Why is it that only Catholics should be afforded that right?
The belief that one has an inherent right to engage in demeaning sexual acts is not a right that is protected by our Constitution.
“Congress does not have the authority to deny us our Right to practice our Faith in private as well as in public”
In that case they would not have the authority to deny me my rights to practice my religion that allows gay marriage. I have no idea why you feel you can’t practice your religion at home, church or in public. Just because gays are here doesn’t mean you can’t practice your religion unless that means your religion requires you to not live somewhere that gays can marry. Is that what this is about?
If one wants to be a practicing homosexual, engaging in homosexual sex in the privacy of their home, no one is going to bother them. If they publicly proclaim or demand the right to do so and to be ‘married’ while remaining Catholic, that is not going to be acceptable. Every organization has certain rules that one must follow in order to belong to that organization. There are rules for teachers, policeman, firemen, etc…certain politicians feel they have the right to ‘publicly’ behave in a certain way and are asked to step down…and remember, sex is not the only way to express love as Michael stated…there are many ways to express love…
If it is true that The Catholic Church did everything they should, then why did they fail to mention the fact that since it is a self-evident Truth that our unalienable Right to be treated with Dignity and Respect comes from God, then the purpose of our unalienable Rights is what God intended. If it is true that the bishops have no intention of challenging a law that violates the inherent, unalienable Right of every person to be treated with dignity and respect, not only is it disturbing, it makes it appear as if the bishops response is actually a charade.
Last January, Andrew Cuomo presented himself and his live in girlfried at the Cathedral in Albany to receive communion, which was given to him (and by some newspaper accounts to his girlfriend who is not a catholic) when there was some criticism afterwards the bishops response was in effect that it was not the business of others. I think the fight against ssmarriage was lost that day. What now is going to happen to terms like Mr. and Mrs. bride and groom, husband and wife? Are they gradually to fall into disuse, to be replaced by “spouse” and “partner”
Wonderful post response Michael to “freye”. Absolutely wonderful especially the part of “This may seem like an “unloving” thing to do because for most people today “love” means to let people do whatever they want, but Christ’s love was one that always called people to live to the natural order of things while still meeting them where they were.” So true, so true. If only more people would understand that one principle.
If there are tax benefits to be had in homosexual marriage as well as in hetero sexual marriage, are single people somehow having to pick up the slack? If so, we are being discriminated against.
Every day the lines of demarcation are becoming clearer. Politically, it couldn’t be clearer. Good vs. evil is now brandished openly. How sad that America has devolved into the state that we now find ourselves. As four consecutive Popes have done, I pray that the Holy Spirit will be poured out abundantly on our country. I think that without Him, our way of life will be gone forever, at least until judgement day decends upon us.
Florin,
How is the church helping their homosexual members cope with this? You say they love gays but I see no evidence of it.
What religious practices do gay couples prevent florin from performing?
For those of you who disagree with the recent passage of the Marriage Equality Act in NY and similar bills in other states and countries, I understand that at least for the majority of you, your opposition is based out of a concern and love for gay individuals. I can’t emphasize that enough, for I too followed Church doctrine on the subject for the first 21 years of my life and harbored the same feelings - but at a very high cost to me, my family and my friends. After a failed attempt at committing suicide following the realization that I was gay, I began to research and pray about the topic with family, friends and priests. Ultimately I came to accept with the full support of grandparents, parents, brothers, sisters, friends, priests, that my sexual orientation was an intrinsic beautiful gift from God that should be embraced and respected. I urge you all to do the same.
Open your hearts and minds to God’s loving guidance and I pray that you too will come to understand the truth. Aside from a myriad of religious texts supporting this viewpoint, you will find that all reputable professional medical organizations provide insightful scientific literature on the subject, e.g. American Medical Asso., American Psychiatric Asso., American Academy of Pediatrics, National Asso. of Social Workers, to name a few.
Additionally, I would suggest contacting your city’s local PFLAG chapter if you would like to gain greater perspective on the issue. Doing so will allow you to meet friendly and approachable gay people and their family members who willing to discuss their personal stories - the effects of which would be invaluable. These educational opportunities will be enriching to you, even if you choose to maintain your current beliefs. For starters, watch the follow following 5 minute video clip from a documentary on the subject, it’s both fun and insightful. http://youtu.be/lj2-_tFXXT4
If my Irish/Italian-American grandparents, who attend Mass daily and have the catechism on the living room coffee table, can change their minds on the subject - I HAVE FAITH IN Y’ALL. :)
Love and light, George
I leave you with the following quotation from Catholic bishops.
“Church teaching is positive with regard to homosexual persons considered in the totality of their beings…Church teaching does not morally condemn homosexual orientation…Nor are homosexual persons to be blamed for not changing their orientations…
Church teaching indicates that even with regard to homogenital activity no one except Almighty God can make certain judgments about the personal sinfulness of acts…the prejudice against homosexuals is a greater infringement of the norm of Christian morality than is homosexual orientation or activity.”
- The Prejudice Against Homosexuals and the Ministry of the Church, Washington State Catholic Conference, 1983
I would like to hear from Archbishop Dolan why the USCCB doesn’t excommunicate these politicians. Don’t we as Catholics have the right to exclude from our faith, services, and organizations those who don’t follow the commandments or those that support violations (homosexual marriage, abortion, contraceptives, etc.) of our beliefs? I believe that St. Paul would agree that we do.
We should be merciful only to those who truly repent of their sins and are willing to faithfully accept God’s commandments and the Magisterium of the Catholic Church.
Our Bishops need to take their paternal responsibilities seriously. A good “Father” is tough, when necessary, with his wayward children. Now is the time to get tough.
This travesty was about much more than gay marriage. It was really about institutionalizing evil and establishing who will really control the public schools that the majority of Catholics and Protestants and other attend. Starting this Fall and going on till the cows come home NY Public Schools will just like Massachusetts have a new curricula:
http://www.dakotavoice.com/2010/06/condoms-for-kindergarteners/
and just like Massachusetts parents will NOT have any say in the matter. If the Bishops of NY State are really serious in their opposition to this mockery of marriage and takeover of the schooling of the majority of their flock then they will have started yesterday to get in touch with every Protestant Minister and every Jewish Rabbi and all others in the State to initiate real school choice a NY school voucher program.
You will know the “fix is in” and that they were never wink, wink, nod, nod REALLY seriously opposed to gay marriage and the collateral damage to the public schools if the Bishops become and remain silent as the Apparatchiks of the various NY Church media from Parish Bulletins all the way up to Church Newspapers drop off their coverage of this issue and start talking up and supporting the “Dream Act” and every other alternative “Social Justice” issue to give “political cover” to those cynical Democrats and Republicans who voted for this counting on the usual bait and switch justice pablum as the November 2012 Election draws near.
Pray, pray, pray that the Bishops live up to their 1868 “First” Vatican Council responsibilities to be the true Shepherds of their flocks; a sacred responsibility that they can not pawn off to USCCB bland statements or to operatives. The Holy Spirit, the Third Person of the Holy Trinity gave them their marching orders! So unlike Obama when he was asked about abortion they can not claim it is “above their pay grade” and refer the flock to the USCCB et alia; it IS their pay grade. Stalin once mockingly asked how many Army Divisions does Pope Pius XII command; these smarmy politicians are just as mockingly cynical about the Church and Church Hierarchy and all other Believers; pray they prove them just as wrong.
The People of New York should have been given the chance to vote on redefining marriage and not have such a decision be left to politicians who are beholden to special interest far more than they are to their constituents. Every state where this issue was left up to the voters, the people chose marriage to be between a man and a woman.
These religious exemptions are ridiculous in that we already have the first amendment, government can’t tell any religious orginization what they may believe or which practice of faith will be protected.
“The church is under pressure by the state to align its policies and activities to the view of rights set forth in the states policies and laws. This is very likely the way of the future as states develop policies and laws that are shaped by an understanding of rights that are promoted internationally and businesses, civil society institutions and religious bodies in particular will be forced to comply
Here in Canada, there was a debate on CBC News yesterday on whether the mayor of Toronto should be allowed to exempt himself from attendance at the city’s annual “Pride” parade. At first the demand is for toleration or “equality.” Later come the demands for ideological conformity. Here’s the next stage:
http://www.ctv.ca/CTVNews/Health/20110628/stockholm-preschool-gender-bias-110628/
@Jayne -
What if a gay couple sues a Catholic who refuses to cater their reception - even when is a different caterer in town who doesn’t have an issue? Granted - it is a ‘what if’ question but these are exactly the concerns that extend beyond this law.
And those suits have taken place and will again. The reality is that even if the suit never make it all the way through the court system the hassle, legal costs and public scrutiny created by such a suit can shut down a small business. And all they were doing was trying to live out their faith.
The slippery slope has begun and I look forward to the arrival of others who want everyone to say their disordered lifestyle is just fine and we all have to accept it.
Cuomo, for his position in politics and as a, ahem, “Catholic”, should be Ex-communiated from the catholic church. Within his ploitical position, he has done nothing but betray his fellow catholics, church teachings as God.
I applaud what I saw the bishop say in another article I read on EWTN NEWS: “In protest of the decision and the “corrupt political process in New York State,” Bishop DiMarzio said he has asked all Catholic schools to refuse any distinction or honors granted by the governor or any member of the legislature who voted to support the legislation.
He has also asked all pastors and school principals not to invite any state legislator to speak or be present at any parish or school celebration.”
I think the Catholic church, along with other moral religous organizations need to work together to form a political party-maybe even considering joining forces with the Tea Party—For the secular world of democrates and republicans is quickly diminishing the values of faith, family,life, marriage and morals.
“
Posted by Jayne B on Tuesday, Jun 28, 2011 2:24 PM (EDT):“Congress does not have the authority to deny us our Right to practice our Faith in private as well as in public”
It’s a shame that it doesn’t even occur to some that same-sex couples have a right to practice their beliefs too.
How can one claim religious freedom allows them to tell others how to run their personal lives? How does someone living their own life they way they choose get in they way of another practicing their religion.”
Reply: You just don’t get it do you? These gays, that claim they are so in love with their partners and watn to make it official are tarnishing the meaning of a marriage. Marriage is a sacrament of the church. Marriage is between a man and a woman—NOT between a man and a man or a woman and a woman—or a chair with a man or a donkey with woman.
Would gay poeple like to be forced to called heterosexuals even through they are not? Well, we Catholics don’t want two men that want to be officially seen as a couple be say they are married—for they are not.
I know poeple have rights. I know some catholics don’t agree with it, but I feel if gays want to officially be seen as a monogamous couple legally, it should be called a CIVIL UNION.
Gays are going against the church, God and nature for their practices and lifestyle. For them wanting to call their union a marriage is blasphemous.
Maybe gays and the poeple who think it is alright for gays calling themselves married, should not just selfishly look at their own needs and beliefs and should respect the beliefs of others. Gays just wanting to step all over others just to filfill their own worldly desires is a perfect example of their demented ways of thinking.
“Congress does not have the authority to deny us our Right to practice our Faith in private as well as in public”
Yeah, that is true! And it has NOT happened.
The fact that gay people can get married under civil law in 6 states has no effect on anyone’s ability to practice their faith. The two are wholly unrelated. People get divorced and it has ZERO impact on anyone else’s ability to practice their faith. Provide a concrete example how a same sex marriage in MA affected a specific individual’s ability to practice your faith over the last 7 years. None of you can name any material harm that has arisen that would stand up in a civil court (the place that counts). Conjecture and slippery slope arguments about polygamists holds water – nothing like that has happen in MA in seven years. MA has continued to have the LOWEST divorce rate of any state – one of the LEAST religious states in the US. One claim by opponents is that SSM would somehow cause a breakdown in marriages in general - in MA this simply has NOT happened 0 no conjecture required - just look at the facts.
“Posted by freye on Tuesday, Jun 28, 2011 12:56 PM (EDT):I keep seeing this mentioned by clergy while they’re campaigning against equal rights: ““We strongly uphold the Catholic Church’s clear teaching that we always treat our homosexual brothers and sisters with respect, dignity and love. “
Can someone tell me how they are treating homosexuals with “respect dignity and love”?”
I’ll answer this for you. I am a man with same sex desires. I will not no longer label myself gay. I have rejoined the Catholic church 3 years ago. I abandoned the filthy, disgusting and Godless gay lifestyle. It was unfulfilling, loveless and is a sad, hollow existence.
I told a Priest. He EDUCATED me (which I urge others to do—you want the TRUTH about something=go to the SOURCE!)that God does not hate anyone. Gay desires are fine, BUT they are immoral and are against the laws of God and Nature. Having gay sex or straight sex out of marriage is both immoral. and when two poeple of the same sex call thier union a marriage—it is (in my words here A Fraud—Null and Void). Why? Becuase marriage is a church sacrament between a man and a woman. PERIOD!
How does the church treat gays that are HONEST with themselves and know that living a gay lifestyle and engaging in gay sexual activity is IMMORAL? Well, Catholics have confession=where we ask for our sins to be obsolved—God will then FORGIVE AND FORGET. We are supported by the clergy with prayers and to taught to live a life of chasity. We are supported to live our lives not by the ideals of the world, but to live so we may reach the kingdom. Life on earth is temporary—but eternity is forever.
There is also a Catholic support group called Courage that helps poeple deal with their same sex attraction. There are meetings available for this and computer blogs where poeple can talk and get support. Instead of organizations that SUPPORT immoral sexual acts, Catholics support poeple to live their lives according to God and Natural Law.
The catholic church does not shun anyone for their sins—for Jesus did not: Just look at the apostles. He chose sinners like St.Matthew, a tax collector that would charge more than what was to be collected for his oun gain. EVERYONE is a sinner—That’s why we have confession and celebrate the eucharist for the ones that indeed can admit to their sins.
So, yes, the church does show dignity, respect and love to gays. BUT, it is up to whomever wants the dignity, respect and love that God and the church provides. For God helps others who help themselves—And for poeple who want to live a life a fraud (such as two men calling their union a “marriage”) and the ones who reject the offered love from God and the church.
The rest of my post got cuttoff…
“And for poeple who want to live a life a fraud (such as two men calling their union a “marriage”) and the ones who reject the offered love from God and the church—THIS IS THEIR OWN SAD CHOICE….”
And for poeple who say that gays getting “married” doesn’t effect our faith, well, it does. Our faith is being disrepected by the Gorvernment leaders that have let this be OK, it is hindering moral teaching in public schools (where there are Catholics and moral family’s children are attending), It is deteriorating a true sense of family, and for gay couples that are actully allowed to “raise” kids are exposing them to a filthy lifestyle and hinder these children to learn their gender roles and how to live morally.
Having gays being allowed to marry interferes with the rights of Catholics and moral families to raise good, stable and funtioning children to grow properly.
All of what is currently happening in this country is a shame…...
Contrary to the statement of the bishops’ representative I do not agree that the Church fought this ” with everything we had”, especially when the bishops relied upon asking Catholics to send letters to influence our legislators. Also the representative saying that “money buys everything” sounds like a weak excuse. I did not hear that government officials who promoted the legislation were branded as heretics subject to their own excommunication by their actions, and if they were threatened with the denial of the holy communion penalty prescribed by the Holy See under Canon 915.I don’t quite see how our bishops can ignore this requirement which is part of Church law. I know it takes courage to do this but if a bishoop can’t handle the responsibility it might be better for him to step aside and let a younger more motivated, stronger more aggressive clergyman take over. It also seems contrary to me that the bishops concluded the legislative program by issuing a strong statement asking their subjects to respect the Church’s teaching on marriage, while at the same time let our legislators have a free pass to legislate future restrictions against the Church with out imposing public religious penalties against them. When under pressure by government all of us including religious leaders should relect on St Thomas More and his bravery. I hope this legislative failue inspires the archbishop to bring the American bishops into agreement with Canon 915.
Writing from MA, we may have one of the lowest divorce rates (hard to believe since too many of my children’s friends parents are divorced), but there is a vast disregard for marriage and a general increase in cohabitation. Certainly a disregard for the procreative power, man and woman. SSM is the latest straw pushing us over the brink.
The SSM crowd is waiting until a large number of States pass SSM; then a real push will come for normalization of all kinds of nonsense. It is ironic that the Scandals were caused by: a sexually dysfunctional society, homosexual priests preying on pre-adolescent boys and dysfunctional “administrator” Bishops. All factors derived from an acceptance of mutual masturbation or contraception.
We need Real Bishops, not confined to the safety of their Cathedrals, but out visiting Parishes and preaching the Truth! Dear God, how can they hide at a time like this, I am of the father of four children and would deserve hell if I did not defend my little flock.
Start by denying Communion to ALL pro-choice and pro-SSM politicians, and then Preach. Too many priests are afraid too, I think that is generally wrong too, but a Bishop can do what a priest cannot. COME ON!
@dhc: “Provide a concrete example how a same sex marriage in MA affected a specific individual’s ability to practice your faith over the last 7 years. “
Why resitrict your question to one location and one time frame? Is it in order to avoid mention of cases that are out there?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedom_of_religion_in_Canada#Refusal_of_service
Also the quote from the Human Rights Commission:
“[Scott Brockie] must restrict the practice of Christianity to his home and church, and not take it with him into the public marketplace.”
http://www.lifesitenews.com/news/archive/ldn/2004/apr/04041604
Now you might argue that people in England or Canada facing criminal charges for having the gall to disagree with the gay lifestyle has no bearing on the U.S. But such prosecution of thoughtcrime in these countries would have been unthinkable in these nations only a generation ago, where our tradition of freedom of expression equals that of the U.S. Gay “marriage” has advanced not through the will of the majority but through judicial or legislative fiat. This logic of “political might makes right” provides no objective basis for respecting the rights of those who disagree. If the U.S. remains at the moment a holdout among Western nations in not criminalizing dissent, that is cold comfort.
I will add for good measure that gay activists are being used as cannon fodder to replace the conception of rights as the inalienable gift of a transcendant Creator with a conception of right as something bestowed by the State. And what the State gives, it may legitimately take away. Wave all the rainbow flags you like, but you are fulfilling a role analogous to that of the Brownshirts.
I strongly suspect that American bishops have not excommunicated politicians who vote contrary to Catholic teachings because none of their confreres in other countries with similar legislation have done so. Have any of the bishops of European nations or Latin America where there are gay marriages/civil unions excommunicated anyone? Bishops like to act in concert, or let’s say, collegially. Moreover, there does not seem to be direction from the top (i.e., the Vatican) that this sort of step should be contemplated.
I spent two afternoons on the phone with four diocese who are adamantly working toward limiting my rights as a homosexual.
None of them, after multiple calls and transfers to departments who acted as if my request was absurd, I was told there are no such programs other then “Courage” of which they know nothing about other then the name an stated purpose.
Not really what anyone would think of as support let alone respect and compassion.
“If they publicly proclaim or demand the right to do so and to be ‘married’ while remaining Catholic, that is not going to be acceptable.”
I’m not sure what catholics you’re talking about but prohibiting someone from talking in public is against their first amendment rights. Just like yours which allow you to be catholic, but it does not allow you to prevent anyone else’s rights.
A few years ago, the RI Bishop Tobin asked for Patrick Kennedy to refrain from receiving communion—For Kennedy (and most of his shameless family) certainly went against the church’s teachings by supporting such things a abortion.
Well, a little after that, things certainly went haywire for Kennedy, and he left his post in congress.
So, with this in mind, the power of “good and evil” played out in concerns of politics.
From this, I feel that other bishops, if they ask politians like Kennedy to refraim from communion—or to go as far as ex-communicating them—will be a beneficial thing for bishops to do.
“the quote from the Human Rights Commission:
“[Scott Brockie] must restrict the practice of Christianity to his home and church, and not take it with him into the public marketplace.””
My Reply: Then why can’t oeple that are practicing homosexuals to restrict themselves from flaunting their behaviors from the public and to keep whatever they do in the bedroom private?
The problems with America and with much of the world is they just want to let it to all hang out. Shame, privacy and morality has been lost in the shuffle…
You may wonder why there has been so much devastation in the world concerning natural disasters? Maybe it’s a sign of the times to clean up this planet. Christ may be coming again sooner than you think!!!!
I couldn’t agree more with florin’s comment about Cuomo, Pelosi, Biden and the fact that they are being permitted to receive the Eucharist. In Cuomo’s case, he is breaking the sixth commandment - “Thou shalt not commit adultery.” We were taught in Catholic school that breaking any of the Ten Commandments was a mortal sin and that receiving the Eucharist in the state of mortal sin is a sacrilege. I think all these so-called “Catholic” politicians need a good refresher course in the Catechism of the Catholic Church!
Men and women who engage in homosexual sex do not in any way impede on my practicing/living my Catholic faith as best I can. No one who is an adulter or a thief or an alcoholic or a drunken driver impedes on my practice of my faith…no one can ever do that…unless, of course, they pass laws that say that I either accept what society deems acceptable at the present time or I will be so prohibited. But even then, I would try to live my faith as best I can and there would be ‘underground’ Priests who would celebrate the Eucharist for Catholics. So…if someone wants to engage in sex outside of marriage, homosexual or heterosexual, or anyone who wants to commit adultery, or cheat or steal or whatever - not as an error or mistake like we all commit, but rather as a way of life that they embrace as morally okay, then they cannot say they are Catholic. If you want to be a Marine or a policeman/woman or an athlete or a teacher or Nurse or Doctor, etc…you have to follow the rules and guidelines of those organizations or you will be booted out. The Catholic Church, on the other hand, as long as we admit our sinfulness - all of us - and try to do better, will always accept us. If we not only sin but try to legitimize that sin and demand that others accept those sinful ways or else be considered racist or biased…then we will not be considered Catholics…if we were not to follow the rules of the military or the police department, or school in which we teach or hospitals in which we work, etc., we would be fired…the Church is more merciful. If a man engages in homosexual sex and is seeking someone to tell him it’s okay, that’s not going to happen…Christ said that if we want to follow Him, then we need to take up our Cross - whichever one we have been given, and follow after Him. He did not promise us a carefree life of bliss - with the Cross comes the grace to bear it…it may not seem that way, I know…but it’s there. If we commit to make the effort to follow Christ and His teachings, then we can fall a million times and we will be forgiven. In Catholic confession, a Priest cannot forgive a sin which the penitent declares he will not even attempt to stop…we need to make the effort and keep trying no matter how hard. Life is really short - eternity is forever. I have a hard time striving to follow Christ…it can get disheartening at times…but nothing else satisfies…anyway, may the Lord bless us all and help us to bear what we must bear…and let’s have no nasty comments about homosexuals themselves…they too, like us, are the sons and daughters of God.
Posted by Joseph R Yungk on Wednesday, Jun 29, 2011 2:30 PM (EDT):I spent two afternoons on the phone with four diocese who are adamantly working toward limiting my rights as a homosexual.
None of them, after multiple calls and transfers to departments who acted as if my request was absurd, I was told there are no such programs other then “Courage” of which they know nothing about other then the name an stated purpose.
Not really what anyone would think of as support let alone respect and compassion.
My Reply: Sorry you didn’t get help. Even with other requests for information, it is sometimes hard to find someone to answer your questions at any organization.
here is the link to the courage website:
http://couragerc.net/
I hope you are able to obtain the resources you need from them.
Posted by Rachel W. on Wednesday, Jun 29, 2011 8:14 AM (EDT):@Jayne -
What if a gay couple sues a Catholic who refuses to cater their reception - even when is a different caterer in town who doesn’t have an issue? Granted - it is a ‘what if’ question but these are exactly the concerns that extend beyond this law.
And those suits have taken place and will again. The reality is that even if the suit never make it all the way through the court system the hassle, legal costs and public scrutiny created by such a suit can shut down a small business. And all they were doing was trying to live out their faith.
The slippery slope has begun and I look forward to the arrival of others who want everyone to say their disordered lifestyle is just fine and we all have to accept it.
REPLY: Actually, a lesbian couple sued a photography because she told them she would rather not photograph their ceremony becuase it went against her religion. Unfortunately, she got a zinger of a judge and the lesbians one!
This was unfair to the photographer. To me, this would have been just as bad if the judge said it would be OK to force the photographer into taking pornographic photos. This judge was an idiot and certainly did not respect the woman’s right as a person with religious beliefs nor respected her right to have whom she sees fit as her clientel.
I really think the government and the law makers in the USA is destroying our country. They are always defending the immoral and the corrupt—it may be so, for they like to keep their own company (ex. Wiener).
I am seeing it more and more politicians and goverment poeples are true scumbags. Not that I agree what that young man did attempting murder on Representative Gillen, but with the things these politicians are passing, you can see why some people are at the breaking point and do commit such violent acts…...
The People of New York should have been given the chance to vote on redefining marriage and not have such a decision be left to politicians who are beholden to special interest far more than they are to their constituents.”
With the polls showing now, Cuomo with an approval in the 60’s among catholics and similar stats for gay marriage in general in NY you may not really like that.
“The People of New York should have been given the chance to vote on redefining marriage and not have such a decision be left to politicians who are beholden to special interest far more than they are to their constituents.”
It was said by the senator who made the vote that he was as concerned about his gay constituents and their families as they are denied more than catholics.
“Christ’s love was one that always called people to live to the natural order of things while still meeting them where they were.”
And following our “natural” instincts is doing just that.
“Irregardless, to truly love, respect and give diginity to a person, you must hold them to the truest definition of love, which means sex inside a loving, committed relationship open to children from God”
and neither do sterile couples nor any parent that has adopted a child.
“Reply: Then why can’t oeple that are practicing homosexuals to restrict themselves from flaunting their behaviors from the public and to keep whatever they do in the bedroom private?”
Well heterosexuals are constantly showing off their lifestyle, wedding rings, references to every member of their families which are denied to gays, endless occasions celebrating their relationship, announcements in the newspaper along with the constant lobbying against others’ rights just to do the same thing.
but for gays to do pretty much anything public is what I see others object to. And it has been said, those are people who can’t even conceive of others having the same motives and needs.
Randall, how can you equate heterosexuals talking about their families, or wedding rings to men kissing men in the streets or, as happened at Disney, gay men actually having sex in a park meant for children? Or groping each other during their gay pride parades? Actually, heterosexual men and women shouldn’t be groping each other in public. But the thing is, men having sex with men is unnatural and it does make people uneasy to see it in public…I’m not sure what you expect? What people do in the privacy of their homes is their own business - that goes for both heterosexuals and homosexuals.
“
Well heterosexuals are constantly showing off their lifestyle, wedding rings, references to every member of their families which are denied to gays, endless occasions celebrating their relationship, announcements in the newspaper along with the constant lobbying against others’ rights just to do the same thing.”
My Reply: Big deal—some tradionally married poeple wear a ring, have a wedding and celebrate milestone anniversaries like 25th & 50th…I don’t see where this is endlessly showing off their lifestyle….
Gays are always in your face with their disgusting “pride” parades, doing things immoral in public and never shut up about sex—That’s all they consume their life with.
At least Many heterosexuals and their lifesytle represents family, love and commitment where as all the gays want is to have their fraudulent “marriage” for, again their own needs and gratification such as getting joint health insurance, can leave each other insurance money whey they die and the right to divorce their spouse and sue them.
And let me tell you the majority of these gays that claim they are “in a relationship”—are full of it: their “relationships” are open and they go out looking for 3rds. I should know, I was within this lifestyle. The gay lifestyle is a shallow, hollow and loveless existence…
Gay=not a moral lifestyle
Pride=brings you to sin
‘nuff said.
“
Posted by florin on Thursday, Jun 30, 2011 8:21 AM (EDT):Randall, how can you equate heterosexuals talking about their families, or wedding rings to men kissing men in the streets or, as happened at Disney, gay men actually having sex in a park meant for children? Or groping each other during their gay pride parades? Actually, heterosexual men and women shouldn’t be groping each other in public. But the thing is, men having sex with men is unnatural and it does make people uneasy to see it in public…I’m not sure what you expect? What people do in the privacy of their homes is their own business - that goes for both heterosexuals and homosexuals.”
MY REPLY: Love your post!!! How many times do you hear heterosexuals being arrested for having sex in public bathrooms, parks, the woods and on bike paths? These men have no sense at all in their brains to do such things where children would be with their families.
“What people do in the privacy of their homes is their own business - that goes for both heterosexuals and homosexuals.”
Well, since probably 99% of the affection that gay couples have for each other is in their home and while heterosexuals do this too, (yes we’ve been out seeing straight people doing all these things and more), you shouldn’t have any problem with it if you just don’t go to gay pride parades.
Also, to claim that you know, without bringing evidence, that gays are “shallow” “hollow” and “loveless” and are all “looking for 3rds” without evidence other than your accusation is really not going to hold any weight when what they are trying to do is have a “lifestyle” just like heterosexuals with marriage.
You can’t claim it’s someone’s fault for a life you don’t approve of when you don’t let that person have a life anything like what you would approve of.
I know, I’ve lived in this situation too.
How many times? In relation to what? Not many times…certainly not as many times as gays having sex in public places, bath houses, gay bars, etc..this was reported by a homosexual man who did not like what was happening in the gay community…
“
Also, to claim that you know, without bringing evidence, that gays are “shallow” “hollow” and “loveless” and are all “looking for 3rds” without evidence other than your accusation is really not going to hold any weight when what they are trying to do is have a “lifestyle” just like heterosexuals with marriage.”
My Reply: Guess you didn’t read all of my post. I know because I was part of that lifestyle and have seen with my own eyes what goes on. What more “evidence’ do you want? Names and dates of the poeple I used to associate myself with? What I witnesses was not accusations, it’s the truth.
Why is it that when You try to explain yourself to “librals” They have selective hearing and reading?....
“How many times? In relation to what? Not many times…certainly not as many times as gays having sex in public places, bath houses, gay bars, etc..this was reported by a homosexual man who did not like what was happening in the gay community…”
Whenever I go downtown on a friday or saturday I see all the same stuff happening among straight people. I didn’t realize that you’ve been in “public” bath houses and gay bars, I’ve seen this stuff in the street with heterosexuals.
Anyone can “report” just about anything. I have to question the motives and comparisons thought. I think that if a gay man had different choices there actually might be a way to have relationships similar to what you have including marriage. Since you actually lobby against that it would be your insistence that this is the only outlet.
St. Thomas Aquinas and Augustin both argued and condoned for a thousand years prostitution as it was a better outlet than rape or other forms of lust. There have even been accounts of prostitution being outlawed and homosexual sex being condoned because of disease.
You can’t blame a child begging for food when they are denied this in the first place.
I spent two days on the phone to four dioceses asking about what kind of support there is for homosexual members of the church. There are none within any of them. There were to mentions of Courage, but with each chapter being a couple of hours apart it doesn’t really look like a welcoming supportive opportunity. I was told they have a “listserve”, a mailing list.
But not one parish or diocese has any policy or department with any interest in demonstrating the compassion and love that is professed in the doctrine of faith. One can say they feel a certain way but the real thing to look at is action.
Not one diocese supported effort to actually show compassion to the people they are attempting to limit the rights of while calling them dysfunctional.
I look for action and have found it all very negative and not in the least bit supportive. And yes, I can claim to have been there too.
Why come to a Catholic website seeking justification for actions that are immoral according to Catholic teaching? It just doesn’t make sense. Maybe you are looking for a loophole? The fact that everyone sins does not make sin acceptable - in any form. We are called to holiness, to follow Christ and that is never easy but we make the choice and we keep that choice by grace and effort. Not every heterosexual misuses the gift of sexuality, nor does every homosexual - many live chaste lives, or make a sincere effort to do so. It’s not easy - nothing is really easy accept giving in to sinful desires - but even then, that comes with a price and, in the end, it’s not worth it. We don’t succeed in our efforts always…but that’s not the important thing - we just need to keep making the effort.
“
Posted by Joseph R Yungk on Thursday, Jun 30, 2011 1:55 PM (EDT):I spent two days on the phone to four dioceses asking about what kind of support there is for homosexual members of the church. There are none within any of them. There were to mentions of Courage, but with each chapter being a couple of hours apart it doesn’t really look like a welcoming supportive opportunity. I was told they have a “listserve”, a mailing list.
But not one parish or diocese has any policy or department with any interest in demonstrating the compassion and love that is professed in the doctrine of faith. One can say they feel a certain way but the real thing to look at is action.
Not one diocese supported effort to actually show compassion to the people they are attempting to limit the rights of while calling them dysfunctional.
I look for action and have found it all very negative and not in the least bit supportive. And yes, I can claim to have been there too. “
My reply—seek and you shall find. I did leave you the link to COURAGE and it features a blog support group.
Have you ever talked to your priest about same sex attraction? I have with three priests. I never experienced any prejudice. why? maybe it is becuase I ask for the help of the lord to put me on the best path possible. I don’t associate with gays. I set my computer with parental controls to avoid gay content on the web.
Change starts with one’s self and with a good relationship with God….I hope that if you are looking for help with SSA, you keep searching for a priest, bother, sister or deacon to help you…
Joseph R…I am really sorry you have not found the help and support you seem to be looking for. I guess “COURAGE” facilities are few and far between…perhaps you could speak to a Parish priest…I do know that if you live near Connecticut, the Franciscan Sisters of the Eucharist in Meriden, CT. do counseling and offer all kinds of help and support to anyone in need…not just homosexual men and women but families needing counseling, religious, etc…I’ll pray you will find what you are seeking..
so if I understand this properly the goal is to deny certain people from a basic human need and then blame them when they seek it out in the only way that is left after one segment of society forbids any more healthy ways of meeting that need.
Not exactly equitable when we’re created equal nor compassionate either.
“seek and you shall find. I did leave you the link to COURAGE and it features a blog support group.
Have you ever talked to your priest about same sex attraction?
It was already mentioned exactly how ineffective the one support for homosexuals being a mailing list is. Mr. Yungk also mentioned talking to multiple diocese about this also. Looks like homosexuals are completely left in the cold and then expected to swallow legislation that puts this practice into law.
if a church is going to put all this on one group of people and not care or show any compassion there would be no reason for the group of people to have any respect for dogma legislated into their lives.
“
Posted by freye on Thursday, Jun 30, 2011 6:00 PM (EDT):
“seek and you shall find. I did leave you the link to COURAGE and it features a blog support group.
Have you ever talked to your priest about same sex attraction?
It was already mentioned exactly how ineffective the one support for homosexuals being a mailing list is. Mr. Yungk also mentioned talking to multiple diocese about this also. Looks like homosexuals are completely left in the cold and then expected to swallow legislation that puts this practice into law.”—MY REPLY: It is NOT a “mailing list. Anyone willing to want help or information from Courage can visit their website to find the nearest Courgage meeting. There is also other resources and phone numbers to call priests involved in Courage.
Again, I am using their blog, and there is a link to it from the Courage site.
Regardless of what you need help in, you can’t be shy about it or expect someone to hold your hand through it. Yes, he called diocese about it and it may not have gotten him anywhere, the next step is to work with the contacts directly with Courage.
I have same sex attraction and have not yet experiences feeling “left out in the cold”....If you have any faith at all, then pray to Jesus to help you get in touch with the right poeple for assistance. Just don’t give up because of a few bad experiences. Be assertive and let God guide you to where you need to be….
I have had much the same experience with the church’s guidance. It was never there. I had heard from the pulpit, disparaged in the confessional, insulted by letters to the editor and heard the jokes and judgmental remarks from laypeople.
It was never accepting or supportive. As a matter of fact it extremely lonely and desperate. Gay bars were not my thing but I did find other community organizations with people nothing at all like is described—again, more disparagement.
I can’t say that all gays are the most together people but I can sincerely say that the challenges posed on us by organizations like the Catholic Church are not at all reasonable for a human being in a free state. We’re horrified at the way women are treated in places like Saudi Arabia but we really need to look at how we treat our own.
I took a look at courage.net and have to say that the chapters are hours apart and this really is the only resource other than a couple of articles that say I don’t have to worry about my sexual attraction being a sin as long as I never act on it in any way at all. Is that really reasonable to expect from someone outside of your church?
I’m going to call around to various diocese and see just what support is available as this really is looking like the compassion part is not shown practice. This seriously influences any regard I might have for this philosophy.
I think all these examples of refusing service sound like not letting someone in due to race.
I don’t honor your religion anymore but as an employer I’d let you run to church for ash Wednesday or something. That is an example of religious freedom, not treating others as if they just don’t belong or deserve the same special occasions—the message we’ve been seeing unravel here in post after post.
I went through much of this with my son. When he was pretty young he came out of the confessional white as a ghost and rather upset for days. I asked several times before he let me know that he had feelings for other males and he was given way too much information and way too judgmental for any boy to understand or bear.
When I hear other things it generally confirms and reaffirms that this ideal is not manageable and causes so much pain. And if there really isn’t any guidance it furthers the idea that many are cast aside.
When someone does stand up and ask to be counted I congratulate them. But to say “Regardless of what you need help in, you can’t be shy about it or expect someone to hold your hand through it. Yes, he called diocese about it and it may not have gotten him anywhere…” I see a refusal to see what is actually there or being said on all levels of the issue. It again shows how the message does not get across. “yes, he called diocese about it and it may not have gotten him anywhere”? are you serious? After the press they’ve all gotten on the subject and nobody there to listen?
position gays are put in is completely no win and if based on religion should not be required to legalize a relationship nor buy a cake. At least not by the way I read the constitution. If shunning people, including children is part of a religion, keep it out of publicly accessed services.
If one is thoughtful one should ask that the good Bishops when they next meet to reflect on the matter and ponder if it would not be better for the Church in America if the role of the USCCB itself not be ratcheted way back to meeting say every 4 years or even 5 years and that instead of creating a panoply of position papers on everything from which windmills and solar panels are sustainable they would rather focus on just what is and what is not a NON-NEGOTIABLE moral absolute for practicing Catholics. While windmills may or may not be a moral good they become a positive evil when they divert the precious attention of the faithful and their shepherds from the fact that Society is burning down all around them. This is the way the Church taught the faithful for most of it’s history; a method that was punctuated by the Imprimatur of Vatican I when in 1870 the Holy Spirit inspired the Bishops assembled to infallibly pronounce that each Bishop is the Shepherd of and responsible first and foremost for the good of his own Diocese. The accelerating communal or committee approach rather than the Vatican I approach at the very least borders on a form of Heresy. When Vatican I took place the USCCB did not even exist. It originated some 45 years later as a result of WWI because the American Bishops of the time wanted to meet together and show unity and support for the American entry into the Great War. Very slowly at first but a dizzying speed since the 1960s onward the USCCB has grown into a huge organization that has now issued some 3,500 position papers for the edification of the faithful. If one read and studied 1 paper a week it would take nearly 70 years to review them in full context. Similarly studying 1 paper a day would take nearly 10 years of concentrated effort. At the accelerating rate that these generic tomes come out there would be a large new pile of them to be reviewed and digested. Manifestly it is asking too much of the faithful to depend upon the USCCB mechanism for timely pertinent moral direction. Finally it is an unfortunate but established fact that the Mario and Andrew Cuomos and Jerry Browns of the political landscape have learned how to manipulate the plethora of USCCB position papers to deflect the attention of the Faithful away from a calloused support of Abortion or homosexual marriage and other fundamentals of the Faith by mining as it were these thousands of USCCB papers for out of context social justice notions; Mario Cuomos speech to Notre Dame is a perfect example, in order to mislead the faithful into thinking that they are on the side of the angels when in fact they are the side of only one third of the angels. Sheep need Shepherds to be on the job in a timely manner. When the wolf comes the Shepherd can not tell the sheep let me get with the Conference of Shepherds and get back with you next year with a generic position paper on wolves in sheep’s clothing. No the Shepherd needs to immediately direct the sheep away from danger and when necessary get out his sling shot and hurl a rock or two at the wolf. If only because it slows down the response of the Church to the correction of grave errors it follows that in a very real sense the USCCB has become a part of the problem and not a part of the solution. Look it kept Archbishop Dolan away from his Diocese while morally anyway the whole State burned down.
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