Ross Douthat is the youngest op-ed columnist for The New York Times in the paper’s history and also a practicing Catholic who writes on the intersection of politics, culture and faith.
A self-described “political conservative,” he is the author, most recently, of Bad Religion: How We Became a Nation of Heretics (Free Press, 2012) and two other books, Privilege: Harvard and the Education of the Ruling Class (Hyperion, 2005) and, with Reihan Salam, Grand New Party (Doubleday, 2008).
During the Republican convention, he will provide commentary for CNN, the Times and his blog.
He spoke with Register senior editor Joan Frawley Desmond from the convention in Tampa.
In your new book, Bad Religion: How We Became a Nation of Heretics, you argue that “New Age” movements, among other cultural currents, helped to weaken the role of doctrine in contemporary religious experience in America. If that’s true, how do you explain the nomination of two religiously conservative men — a Mormon and a Catholic — to top the GOP ticket this November?
Romney in particular is a vindication of my premise. Mormonism is the defining American heresy. I think of it as a heresy of Christianity — partly to avoid the debate that evangelicals have about whether Mormons are Christian or not. Instead, you can say: Yes, they are Christian, but it’s a heretical form of Christianity that dissents from the scripturally based consensus of the early Church.
Romney and Obama are two candidates that come from religious traditions outside the mainstream of American Christianity of the past.
Black liberation theology, in Obama’s case, is associated with his church in Chicago and the Rev. Jeremiah Wright. But since breaking with Wright’s church, he has become a nondenominational Christian.
I wouldn’t want to say that Obama’s [religious faith] was heretical. But, at the least, he is a Christian who doesn’t have a church, and that’s emblematic of this moment when denominations are weaker than before and Americans are more likely to identify themselves with their individual beliefs, not through their affiliation with a church.
Republican activists have predicted that the Obama campaign would “play the Mormon card.”
We’re talking just a couple of days before Romney’s convention speech. One question is: How much will Mormonism feature in his speech?
What I have seen is that they have made the choice to highlight his faith more than they had to date. That is a signal that the campaign doesn’t see his Mormon faith as a big weakness. When it comes to humanizing Romney, you can’t do that without talking about his role as a Mormon bishop and all his charitable works.
Polls suggest that evangelicals, rather than Catholics, are more concerned with Romney’s Mormonism. Maybe the Democrats aren’t playing the Mormon card because Catholic “swing” voters aren’t concerned about it.
There is more suspicion of Mormonism among evangelicals than Catholics. Recently, there has been more cooperation between Mormons and Catholics on issues like Proposition 8.
While the Catholic Church in this country has focused more on serving immigrant communities, evangelicals and Mormons have similar domestic mission goals and are more focused on winning converts, and there you have direct competition with groups.
In general, the Mormon leadership has been wary of getting involved in politics, compared to Catholics and evangelicals, because of a history of persecution.
Though Mormons are officially against abortion, there has been no controversy against pro-choice Mormon politicians — like Romney once was. They are wary of being perceived of telling Mormon politicians how to vote.
Catholics also don’t like to be told how to vote. Commentators are debating whether the HHS mandate controversy will lead Catholic "swing" voters to shift to the GOP ticket.
The "Catholic" vote in the U.S. at this point is the American vote. Catholics are thought of as a "swing" constituency, but that’s because they reproduce the outlines of the population as a whole. Faced with this controversy, you will have both those who won’t respond well to the bishops criticizing the president and those who are comfortable with it.
The "swing" constituency is often Catholics who attend Mass a couple of times a month. They are not rigorously practicing Catholics. To the extent that the HHS debate has political impact, you would see a modest shift by engaged Catholics against the White House. It’s hard to distinguish their response on this single issue from other broad trends.
Rep. Paul Ryan’s budget proposal has generated controversy about his integrity as a Catholic, with bishops and laypeople either criticizing or defending his application of Catholic social principles.
Ryan manifests the growing comfort of Catholic Republicans [with challenging the traditional application of Catholic social principles]. They shifted to the GOP, initially, over abortion. But, over time, they have also embraced an alternative view of Catholic social teaching. They took the basic structure of Catholic thought, but placed emphasis on subsidiarity and local communities rather than solidarity or looking [to policies directed by] a national bureaucracy.
When Ryan talks about his budget plan in Catholic terms, he is using the language of Catholic neo-conservatives like Michael Novak and Richard John Neuhaus from a previous generation.
Ryan is also a shrewd and effective politician.
He has done an impressive job of framing his political philosophy in Catholic terms. He is absolutely right to argue that in the debate over whether the federal government should consume 18% or 24% of GDP, there is nothing in Catholic social teaching that says the government must inevitably expand and pay no attention to deficits. It is a mistake for his critics to say he is dissenting from Catholic social teaching.
That said, when you look at his proposals, there isn’t always a “Catholic” difference: When you compare his proposals with those offered by a more conventional Republican politician, they tend to be in the same ballpark.
People have overstated the Ayn Rand connection, but there is a Randian wing of the Republican Party, oriented around liberty, while another wing is oriented around community and solidarity. Ryan straddles both, but it would be nice if he offered a more distinctively Catholic position.
Cardinal Timothy Dolan of New York, the president of the U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops, is playing a prominent role in this campaign season. Over the past year, he led the bishops’ campaign against the federal contraception mandate, asserting that the Obama administration was “strangling” Catholic institutions. More recently, he provoked a furor when he invited the president to the Alfred E. Smith Dinner and another when he agreed to offer a benediction at the Republican convention. Today, it was announced that he would offer a blessing at the Democratic convention.
Navigating American life has always been a big challenge for Catholic leaders. It was challenging in the period when Catholics were persecuted in the U.S. and in the last century when Catholics became influential.
Now, we are in a "betwixt and between" period. Catholics do not face the level of public hostility they faced in the 19th century. But the Church is more divided than it was, and its public reputation is much worse because of the sex-abuse scandal.
The new anti-Catholicism is a more urbane pseudo-sophisticated version that regards the Church as a stumbling block to progress, and this presents Cardinal Dolan with a difficult challenge.
You don’t want to exaggerate the threat the Church faces and suggest that we’re all going to be locked up and sent to re-education camps. But there are real challenges, and you need to push back vigorously against them.
The choices he has made have been generally right. [The bishops] need to push back against the mandate; if you don’t, there will be more threats to Catholic liberty coming down the pike.
But he was also right to invite President Obama to dinner, because, whatever disagreements there have been between the Church and the White House, Obama is not Henry VIII. We are still a free society, and the Church should be in dialogue. The fact that people were taken aback by that shift [in his response] shows how tricky it is to navigate these waters.
In Bad Religion, you argue that for some American believers, especially progressive Christians, doctrinal certainties have been replaced with New Age and Eastern religious beliefs. You’ve blogged about the Leadership Conference of Women Religious inviting Barbara Marx Hubbard, a futurist, as the keynote speaker at its recent conference.
Hubbard’s appearance at the LCWR meeting reflects the big choice facing the liberal wing of Christianity.
There is a version of Christianity that is recognizably Christian and engaged in progressive social reform. For the United States, this form of liberal Christianity has led the abolitionists and the Rev. Martin Luther King, among others, to make the world a better place.
Some argue that modernity has rendered Christianity obsolete, and Hubbard represents the influence of New Age elements and Eastern religions. Within progressive Christianity, there is also a middle ground and an overlap between these two views.
I am a political conservative, but I want there to be a vital Christianity that is associated with liberal politicians. You can’t have Christianity as only the religion of the Republican Party.
The peril for groups like the LCWR is that they are so invested into pushing "beyond the beyond" they will leave Christianity entirely. I would much rather they had invited [Vice President Joe] Biden than Hubbard. It is dangerous for Christianity to be associated with post-Christian movements.
At the end of the book, I talk about the obligation of Christians and Catholics to be Christian without being partisan. Catholic politicians can identify with their party, but they should also demonstrate a Catholic difference.
That is difficult to do when the framework is so polarized. The Democratic Party is becoming more and more institutionally hostile to Christian faith — that is an absolute and an inescapable reality.
In my book, I cite Chuck Colson, who was deeply engaged in conservative activism and also in prison ministry — not a traditionally Republican cause. We need more of that. The bishops should prod politicians to go beyond partisanship.
American politics would be in better shape if we had more pro-life Democrats, but there is almost no sign of that. Rep. Bart Stupak’s fate during the health-care debate, when he was pulled back and forth in a polarized landscape, reflects the problem.
As a columnist for The New York Times, you are also subject to the powerful forces of partisanship.
What did St. Paul say: ‘I work out my career in fear and trembling?’ I don’t want to hold myself up as an example. To the extent that I aspire to anything in the marriage of faith and career, it is to be engaged in major political debates, while also remembering that my first loyalty is to my faith and not to partisanship. My columns and books that sketch out a vision for the Republican Party are at least somewhat informed by Catholic commitments, but I will admit that I am as tempted by partisanship as anybody else.



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Eileen, while I appreciate your gentle approach, Card. Dolan is not like Pope John Paul II who spoke out aggressively against the communist regime in Poland and against anti-life people throughout the world. When Pope John Paul met with enemies of the Church, he did so only in order to let them know where he stood…he did not party with them. Pope John Paul (and Pope Benedict) declared that any Catholic politician who publicly stands against the teachings of the Church should not receive Holy Communion. Card. Dolan has declared that he will not refuse the Eucharist to anyone because to do so, in his opinion, would be to politicize the Eucharist. So, Cardinal Dolan would offer the Body and Blood of Christ to publicly unrepentant abortionists, child molesters, those in same sex marriages?- that is to demean the Eucharist and to cause further scandal to already confused Catholics and to affirm those public sinners in their sin and deny them the catalyst for conversion. Sad!
Sept. 2nd: Obama is not a Henry VIII - no, he’s worse because he is instrumental in the ongoing extermination of millions of human babies in the wombs of their mothers - and outside the womb. We talk about Obama’s threat to ‘freedom of religion’ but it’s really about the threat to human life…most of the talk was about having to pay money for contraceptives…what should be emphasized is not the cost financially but the cost in terms of human life and Obama has deliberately called to his side, to stand with him against the Church and her teachings, dissident Catholics like Pelosi, Biden, Sebelius, Sr. Keehan and others…he has made his DNC platform all about abortion, same sex marriage, the alleged war on women by Republicans…while Obama’s war on women is horrendous…he and his allies try to convince women that it will be good for them to terminate the lives of their unborn babies. Well, I work with post-abortive women and let me tell you it is not good - it etches a wound on their soul that remains forever and often destroys families in the wake of the lost life of the baby. Obama lies and manipulates and deceives in more ways than Henry VIII ever did and he does so persuasively. And, as far as religion goes, I have heard with my own ears Obama say quietly and with bowed head: “MY Muslim faith” - I don’t care if he’s Muslim or not but I do care about the deception. I don’t care that Mitt Romney is a Mormon…he is a caring man of good character and family values. Much is still hidden about Obama’s past - but his agenda is becoming more and more bold and more clear…but he still has the power to be persuasive…Mitt Romney does not inspire with words because he is not a glittering orator but Mitt Romney does inspire with actions; Obama is a magical orator but his actions are dangerous and his capacity to seduce prominent Catholic politicians to join his side against the Bishops and the Church will lure Catholics into voting for him again…and, given another 4 years, Obama will have nothing to lose, but we will have everything to lose, except our faith. So please be wise when you go to vote and check out the facts and the fact checkers in order to be more informed about both sides…above all pray for the wisdom and guidance of the Holy Spirit.
@Kathleen,
I wrongly attributed Mr. Pedler’s comment to you when it was under your post. Sorry to lump you into the pro-Obama crowd.
Only twice in 85 years have I been worried about the viability of the nation our Founding Fathers willed to us; The first time was when Obama was elected to fulfill two prophecies. After losing the presidential race in 1936, Norman Thomas said the socialists would take over our nation without firing a shot. The stigmatic Padre Pio said our nation would be taken, but it would only be for a short time. God help us if he did not mean four years. The American voters will have the capacity to destroy liberty and freedom of religion in the coming election. I hope the Democrats and apostate Catholics that elected Obama will correct their betrayal and reject Socialism forever. If not, the American dream will become an endless nightmare of depravity and licentiousness.
Corey ,
I’m not an Obama supporter, nor pro-abortion. Did you misunderstand my comment?
He did attend the RNC convention but as usual the mainstream media cut off before the final benediction. Whether that was meant as a snub to Dolan or not I do not know. But he definitely made mention that politicians and government in general have a responsibility to protect life and the unborn and prayed for such politicians. I would suspect that he will take the stage at the DNC and say the same thing. If he omits it, you will have your point. But for the time being, I think Dolan recognizes that while speaking truth is important (and I haven’t heard him not speak it), it is likewise important to engage both sides. The goal is to save souls not play mere politics.
We as lay Catholics are bound to vote Catholic principles. Dolan’s responsibility as a shepherd of the Church is to preach them and to draw those in error back to the faith. I think him appearing at both of the conventions is the right thing to do as long as he prays for the same things. Now if only we can get the Nuns back on the bus!
I am very disappointed with Cardinal Dolan. I thought we finally got a good one after his predecessor but I was wrong. He continues to straddle the fence on political issues/parties when it is so obvious that Obama’s regime seeks to destroy christian values and attack catholic in particular. With shepherds like him, you should wonder how in the world catholics could avoid being wolf dinner at all.If appearing at the DNC convention is not meant as an endorsement, then he should have attended the RNC convention as well. SHAME !!!!
@Kathleen, et al,
You miss the point!! The primary concern has to be the sanctity of life above all else. A practicing Catholic cannot possibly consider a candidate who is openly pro-choice, pro-same-sex marriage, pro-euthanasia, pro-embryonic stem cell research, etc a viable candidate just because he supports welfare and it not be considered a cooperation in a moral evil. I’ll leave the final word to our late Holy Father Pope John Paul II:
“The inviolability of the person which is a reflection of the absolute inviolability of God, fínds its primary and fundamental expression in the inviolability of human life. Above all, the common outcry, which is justly made on behalf of human rights-for example, the right to health, to home, to work, to family, to culture- is false and illusory if the right to life, the most basic and fundamental right and the condition for all other personal rights, is not defended with maximum determination”. - CHRISTIFIDELES LAICI
Note please that he says these concerns are secondary, they are “false and illusory” when the sanctity of life is not protected as the primary concern. Please tell me how Barack Obama is protecting these fundamental rights.
The Chairmen of both USCCB Committees never condemned that Ryan’s proposal is an “immoral budget”. This is the Left’s buzz word to rally against Paul Ryan. In the March 6’s letter, the Bishops (Blaire & Pates) have relied on some laity’s recommendation – which we all know are always subjective and partisan – to oppose:
- impacts on housing assistance,
- DC Opportunity Scholarship Program,
- entire foreign operations budget
Within the same letter they supported for continuing with the Pell Grants and expansion of low-income tax credits, among other things. So “opposing” and warning is not the same as condemning the proposal to be an “immoral” act. After all, they continued to stress “reduce future deficits” and “use limited resources efficiently and effectively” effort in the letter. To me, this letter is not a condemnation of immoral act, but more of an advising tone.
Reducing the deficits and utilizing limited resources effectively is exactly what Ryan attempted to do by relying on the Catholic social teachings, “subsidiarity and solidarity”. At least 3 bishops (http://www.ncregister.com/tags/archbishop_aquila) and a theologian( Fr. Robert Baron, http://www.wordonfire.org/WOF-TV/Commentaries-New/Paul-Ryan-and-Catholic-Social-Teaching.aspx), have vouched for him on this aspect. Thus, it is subjective and misleading to say that his plan is “not consistent with Catholic”.
CCC #1750 says that a good moral act depends on 3 things: the object chosen, intention and circumstances of act. I believed that Mr. Ryan has taken these into consideration whe he proposed his budget plan. The object he chose to act good on was the people’s money (tax payers money). His intention is to be a good steward of the nation’s revenue, and safeguard the future generation’s. The circumstance that he has to act is that facing the reality of trillions $$$ of borrowing and wasteful spending, there needs to be “shared sacrifice by all” (as suggested by the Bishops). Thus certain things has to be cut. Cutting cost idea should not be any different than diocesan budget’s cut on various ministries – a popular trend these days (thanks to all the lawsuits).
I’d say that Mr. Paul Ryan has done a outstanding job of faith in actions.
“I wouldn’t want to say that Obama’s [religious faith} was heretical.” I would have NO problem saying that Obama’s faith is heretical, as is Biden’s, Pelosi’s, Sebelius’s, Mario Cuomo’s, Andrew Cuomo’s, Jeremiah Wright’s, most of the Kennedys’, etc. If Cdl Dolan can refer to both Ryan and Biden (with Biden’s 100% vote for NARAL, his support for same-sex “marriage”, etc.) as Catholics, I don’t think Cdl Dolan would know a heretic if he fell over one in the street.
stilbelieve,
There are plenty of Republicans who do not hold a pro-life view regarding abortion.Sad to say.
But because their party platform & many Republican candidates believe otherwise, I still vote GOP.Most of the time.
I’ll stay away until someone misstates my remarks then, I need to clarify. Nowhere did I write that “no bishops came to Paul Ryan’s defense.” Nor did I write anything of the sort.
What I did write was “No bishops or other Church officials have challenged the substance of the USCCB’s conclusions regarding Ryan’s immoral budget proposal.”
Several bishops have defended Ryan personally. None have defended his plan nor taken issue with the USCCB’s position that Ryan’s plan is immoral.
And here, Ryan’s former priest agrees with the USCCB that Ryan’s plan is not consistent with Catholic doctrine -http://www.prwatch.org/node/11707
Karl LaFong misspoke when he wrote no bishops came to Paul Ryan’s defense. He overlooks the statements made by the bishop of Ryan’s home diocese and that from the new archbishop of Denver. There are, no doubt, others as well. As far as another poster who identifies as a Christian in Europe who hopes for an Obama victory and who contends there “is still room in the Democratic Party for Catholics with traditional values,” I contend the statement can be justified only by completely overlooking the fact that you become complicit in grave mortal sin the minute you stand by those who do everything possible to continue the destruction of the pre-born and the redefinition of marriage from sacrament instituted by God to an abomination before God.
@Kathleen
“One might also ask how can a society which kills it’s most vulnerable members through abortion & euthanasia, claim to be Christian?”
It is not “society” that is doing that. It is the Democrat Party which is supported by its single, largest voting block - Catholics. So the question that should be asked is how can Catholic Democrats “claim to be Christian?”
Posted by John Pedler on Wednesday, Aug 29, 2012 11:56 AM (EST):
And how can a society which has no care for the poor and sick claim to be Christian?
So in Europe Chritains and others hold our breath for an Obama victory and hopefully continued Democratic control of the Senate. It might be too much to hope for a return of a Democratic majority in the House!”
*****************
The truly poor in America have Medicaid.Children of middle to lower income families can qualify for state sponsored health insurance which can cover dental & vision care, too. Noone is turned away from emergency rooms. It’s primarily the middleclass with too much income to qualify for assisted healthcare that have had a hard time.And yes, our healthcare system does need tweaking, but not what’s offered through Obamacare.
One might also ask how can a society which kills it’s most vulnerable members through abortion & euthanasia, claim to be Christian? The first & most critical right is the right to life itself.Everything else follows that.Without life, there are no rights to enjoy.
The argument about which Bishops agree/disagree/have no opinion of Ryan’s budget aside, I think everyone misses the point of Matthew 25. Jesus announces that judgement is predicated upon how we treat our brethren. Why? Because it is associated with the measure of love that we have for one another and since we know from St. Paul that Jesus lives within us, then when we reject the plight of fellow brethren, we are rejected the plight of Christ.
In Matthew 25, Jesus says that what YOU failed to do for the least of my brethren, YOU failed to do it for me. I agree that government can create policies to help the poor and should within bounds, but let’s at least be clear that when you pass over that homeless guy on the street and Jesus calls you out for it on judgement day, you can’t say, “well I voted for Barack Obama who said he was going to fix that”. Jesus calls us to get involved personally and not put the responsibility on others (vis a vis the government). Take up your own cross and deny yourself. That is the real message.
In Pope Benedict’s book, Jesus of Nazareth, he correctly points out that western aid in general always fails when we push aside religious principles in the process. Removing God from the equation will never work. This is why I have a problem with letting the government handle the aid. We give it in the form of taxes, the government strips God from our “donation” because of the perceived separation of Church and State and hands it out washed clean of the true gift it was meant to be.
I once saw a commercial where it ended “Love, pass it along”. The idea of passing along love is to pass along the grace of God. When you walk over to a homeless man and give him a 20, it isn’t the 20 that is the gift. It is the grace of God. It seems as if many Catholics are placing the political emphasis on the wrong things. The founding fathers asserted that life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness are rights that come from God. Yet, they are ordered. The right to liberty cannot trump the sanctity of life nor can the pursuit of happiness. Therefore, I am not prepared to look at economic policy as more important than the government’s current view on the sanctity of life, or lack thereof. Again, as our current Holy Father says, “Wherever politics tries to be redemptive, it is promising too much. Where it wishes to do the work of God, it becomes not divine, but demonic.”
Come on, Karl, don’t run away from the facts and the truth. I’m using the Catholic bible and Cannon Law as well as reasoning to prove your support for those two wayward bishops is not justified by Catholic teaching. Why is that so difficult for you to accept? You have provided no facts to support their statement on USCCB stationary. USCCB stationary is not the Catholic bible or Cannon Law. Do you want particulars concerning the Catholic bible I am using to fact check what the bishops said?
Seems to me you are operating merely on your opinion devoid of facts and reasoning. What kind of a position is that to have when debating the Catholic position? Aren’t you interested in knowing the truth?
@Karl LaFong
“They pointed out that the proposed cuts were immoral, particularly in light of other, missed opportunities, in the plan to cut debt.”
Yeah, raising taxes and cutting the defense budget. That was very “christian” of them since they are not taxed nor responsible for protecting the safety of our nation. The bishops made a big mistake and we are all paying the price for it. It’s Catholics that have put the Church and all Christian religions in the line of fire of Obama’s attack on our First Amendment Rights. A lot of time and money are being spent now on defending those rights. And there is a chance we can lose them in the court, just as it is possible we can lose the fight in court to keep the institution of marriage between a man and a woman. Do these things not bother you what the Democrat Party is doing, made possible by Catholic support?
stilbelieve - Thanks but, I trust our bishops on this matter as it relates to the Catholic faith. All - thanks, it’s been real. Getting a bit circular so, I’ll bow out.
Thien - My advice was meant for the commenters here and elsewhere who reject our bishops’ direction. No, the bishops’ moral tests and measurement of Ryan’s proposal are objective. Obama’s wrongs, whatever they may be, are no justification for the flaws in Ryan’s plan.
The bishops are also sensitive to the harm of debt in their letters regarding Ryan’s plan. They didn’t blindly protest cuts. They pointed out that the proposed cuts were immoral, particularly in light of other, missed opportunities, in the plan to cut debt.
Anon - See my note at 10:04 above.
@Karl LaFong
“At the risk of committing the ad hominem fallacy, I conclude that our bishops know more about Catholic doctrine and the Bible than you, me, and Ryan put together and multiplied many times over.”
You may “conclude” that, but I don’t. Here’s why:
One. I don’t when right there in my bible, next to the biblical phrase the bishops used to support their moral opinion, is the footnote containing the context of that phrase. I can read that the “stronger case” of the meaning of Matt 25, 31-46 is that Christians, “probably Christian missionaries whose sufferings were brought upon them by their preaching of the gospel” is who is being referred to. How those “nations,” preached to, accepted “the message of Jesus, himself” is what will bring on “The Judgment of the Nations” (which is the heading of Matthew chpt. 25 in my Catholic bible).
Two. Show me where Jesus taught his disciples (including today’s clergy), and followers, in the gospels to go get governments to do what he taught them to do themselves.
Three, and perhaps most convincing, “Cannon Law, Can. 222 §1. The Christian faithful are obliged to assist with the needs of the Church so that the Church has what is necessary for divine worship, for the works of the apostolate and of charity, and for the decent support of ministers. §2. They are also obliged to promote social justice and, mindful of the precept of the Lord, TO ASSIST THE POOR FROM THEIR OWN RESOURCES” (my emphasis).
LaFong,
The USCCB did not criticize Ryan’s budget. Two bishops on a committee did and other bishop’s disagree with those bishops.
“so many who are so quick and ardent to find fault with the leaders of our Church”... well said, and perhaps this advice is best applicable to the LCWR and folks at the “Fish Wrappers” (aka National Catholic Reporter).
The generic “test of moral criteria” is subjective. Ryan’s proposed budget plan although passed by the House, has never become a law. Yet, the Obamacare law is robbing $700B from Medicare <http://www.eppc.org/publications/pubID.4824/pub_detail.asp>. Sadly it went unnoticed by the USCCB. So is raiding $$$ from Medicare (impacting seniors) immoral? If so, where’s the outcry? The only complaint by our Bishops (in unity for the first time) was the HHS mandate, and it is a wake up call.
When it comes to acting morally or with conscience, the CCC#1789 suggested:
1. One may never do evil so that good may result from it;
2. the Golden Rule: “Whatever you wish that men would do to you, do so to them.”
3. charity always proceeds by way of respect for one’s neighbor and his conscience: “Thus sinning against your brethren and wounding their conscience . . . you sin against Christ.” Therefore “it is right not to . . . do anything that makes your brother stumble.”
I believe that Mr. Ryan is an informed Catholic and has done his best to apply such principle. His biggest concern was the future generation’s burden of debt due to the tremendous-irresponsible spending of the current administration. Greece’s outcome has solidify his worries and inspired him to do something about it.
As a matter of fact, I’d take him any time if given Catholic politicians like Pelosi, Sebelius and so forth.
I think bishops should be more concerned about the salvation of souls and tell the laity to give more of their “own” money to take care of the poor. At my judgment, I don’t think Jesus is going to ask how much I paid in taxes, he’s going to ask how much of of the gifts (money, time, etc.)he gave me did I give to the least of my brethern.
***************Cardinal Dolan, follow Christ in a radical way and you will convert millions to the Faith*********************************************************************
Cardinal Dolan’s response to those critical of his honoring President Obama with an invitation to the Al Smith Dinner was, “In the end, I’m encouraged by the example of Jesus, who was blistered by his critics for dining with those some considered sinners…”
The Cardinal, who clearly enjoys wearing the red of a Cardinal (which symbolizes his readiness to shed his blood for the faith),should use tis moment to follow Christ in a radical way.
Cardinal Dolan is a member of a group of men (Catholic bishops) who allowed numerous priests to rape and molest children on a worldwide scale and to date not one of these bishops has paid a price for their sins/crimes. Why doesn’t Cardinal Dolan offer to give up that which is most precious, freedom. Why doesn’t the good cardinal offer to spend the rest of his life in prison and offer this suffering in reperation for his own sins (not reporting child abusing priests to the police) and the sins of every priest and bishop who destroyed the life of a child. What an example of Christian love that would be, THAT would be following Christ in a way that would convert millions. Does he have enough love and faith to follow the example of Christ in such a radical way? Or does he find it easier to stand for nothing and try to please everybody?
Sieber,
It’s “LaFong”
stilbelieve,
At the risk of committing the ad hominem fallacy, I conclude that our bishops know more about Catholic doctrine and the Bible than you, me, and Ryan put together and multiplied many times over.
I am sad to see so many who are so quick and ardent to find fault with the leaders of our Church.
I assume both partys’ invitations were somewhat in the best spirit and somewhat cynical. While the Republican position on legal abortion trumps the Democratic position on abortion and so forces a Catholic choice for Republican candidates, each party has glaring policy difference with the Catholic Church.
Remember, Mr. La Fong…..“Its a Gift.”
@Karl LaFong
You said to John, “It appears from your comment you have not read the bishops’ letters. The bishops didn’t deem Ryan’s proposal immoral due to reduced growth. The bishops deemed Ryan’s budget immoral as it fails to meet certain moral tests due to cuts it proposes to specific programs.”
Karl, then it looks like the bishops didn’t read their bible, either. Here is what was said in the link you provided:
“Bishops Blaire and Pates reaffirmed the ‘moral criteria to guide these difficult budget decisions’ outlined in their March 6 budget letter.”
They presented 3 criteria of which only one referenced the teaching of Jesus; criteria #2.
“2. A central moral measure of any budget proposal is how it affects ‘the least of these”’ (Matthew 25). The needs of those who are hungry and homeless, without work or in poverty should come first.”
The bishops have appeared to have miss-interpreted what Jesus said. Matt 25, 31-46. It is from these versus comes the context and the phase they highlighted, “the least of these.”
According to footnotes in my Catholic Bible for Matt 25, 31-46:
“A difficult and important question is the identification of these ‘least brothers.’ Are they all people who have suffered hunger, thirst, etc. (35, 36) or a particular group of such sufferers? Scholars are divided in their response and arguments can be made for either side. But leaving aside the problem of what the traditional material that Matthew edited may have meant, it seems that a stronger case can be made for the view that in the evangelist’s sense the suffers are Christians, probably Christian missionaries whose sufferings were brought upon them by their preaching of the gospel. The criterion of judgment for ‘all the nations’ is their treatment of those who have borne to the world the message of Jesus, and this means ultimately their acceptance or rejection of Jesus himself; cf 10, 40, “Whoever receives you, receives me.”
Woe to our nation if this Democrat Administration is elected again. These bishops are aiding and abetting that happening by their misapplication of the teachings of Jesus, not only in its context, but in who he was talking to. Jesus was not talking to the government. And woe to those Catholics who have given their name identification and votes to the pro-homosexual marriage, pro-abortion Party.
We in Europe (those of us who follow foreign affairs!) see these US elections as at least as critical for us as the Gore/G W Bush election which got us the catastrophe of the Iraq invasion (on a tax cut for the well-off!) and the continuing deregulation and lax control of the banking sector. Those together got us the disaster of 2008. For us the choice is simple.
We see the Republicans - gone far, far to the right - as offering more of the same. Our economists pretty well to a man point out that Ryan’s financial proposals seriously lack key specifics and, even on what we are allowed to know, anyway will not work. It is a charlatan job to cover the real issue - are the great corporations and the mega-rich, already with immense power virtually to take over politics in the United States to the advantage of the 1% and to the detriment of the rest? And is US foreign policy to be determined by G W Bush’s “with us or against us” arrogance which had cost the West so grievously? A Romney victory will test the EU-US relationship to the limit!
For Catholics - of course the Democrats’ have moved morally to accept an odious “political correctness” and an ideology of “progressive” which exalts homosexuality and even the grave evil of abortion, but there is still room in the Democratic party for those with the traditional values that did much to make America the indispensable leader in a world threatened by gross evil perpetrated by such as Hitler and Stalin. Indeed today, in the last resort, the Democrats do stand against total worship of the Golden Calf - notably the tyranny of the “bottom line”. This is something Jesuits have noted and several US bishops have, this time around, warned about. And how can a society which has no care for the poor and sick claim to be Christian?
So in Europe Chritains and others hold our breath for an Obama victory and hopefully continued Democratic control of the Senate. It might be too much to hope for a return of a Democratic majority in the House!
Fran, I truly grasp your point and there will be some who will view the cardinal’s presence to bolster their own pro-choice views. After giving the matter more thought, it occurred to me that the cardinal is not unaware of that, but rather has placed himself in the role of then-Cardinal Wytola who chose to deal with the powers that be as an equal rather than a supplicant.
The cardinal has positioned himself as a leader to be reckoned with and both parties have acknowledged him as that. Good Move, Cardinal Dolan.
I mean immoral as the USCCB means it - they deemed Ryan’s proposal failed to meet three moral criteria.
The letters do not merely represent the opinions of their author bishops (as if the opinions of several bishops weren’t substantial enough) but rather are written “On behalf of the United States Conference of Catholic Bishops”.
No bishops or other Church officials have challenged the substance of the USCCB’s conclusions regarding Ryan’s immoral budget proposal.
Without invoking images of Henry VIII and more recently Adolf Hitler, Cardinal Dolan needs to be aware that one of the parties (you guess which) may be inviting him more for giving credibility to their cause than the need for an actual blessing…!!! There is nothing new under the sun, so be alert and aware…!!!
The criticism of Ryan by the “USCCB,” was not, in fact, a consensus. One committee released the criticism—and it,in turn, has been criticized by other bishops as partisan and unworthy of the USCCB.
Ryan has been defended not only by his own bishop, but by many others.
The USCCB has no expertise in certain areas, and for them to question the prudential actions of Catholics is not their role. They need to stick with faith and morals because the application of social justice issues is not always clear-cut. Several bishops pointed tha tout at the last USCCB conference, and several stood up to criticize the actions of the committee that pretended to speak for them all.
One may argue with Ryan’s budget proposals, but the question is whether there will be even more poor in this country if we don’t stop the bleeding of money and impending bankruptcy of programs for our seniors, e.g.
John,
It appears from your comment you have not read the bishops’ letters. The bishops didn’t deem Ryan’s proposal immoral due to reduced growth. The bishops deemed Ryan’s budget immoral as it fails to meet certain moral tests due to cuts it proposes to specific programs.
The letter are here: http://www.usccb.org/news/2012/12-063.cfm
Mr LaFong is incorrect, or at leats incomplete, in his post above. The USCCB did not deem Rep Ryan’s budget immoral. Two Bishops, Blaire and Pates, writing for their respective committees did assess that there were problems with the budget in their view in respect to Catholic social teaching. If you recall, that almost immediately brought forth objections from other bishops who claimed, rightly, that Bps Blaire and Pates had gone too far in their objections and that their thinking seemed mired in a particular view of how any relief must be delivered i.e. through a large state-run apparatus and via government dominated solutions.
I am not denying that there are many views as to how to approach the actual employment of Catholic social teaching and Rep. Ryan has no corner on that market. On the other hand, he isn’t the one claiming that his way is the only way to approach the problem - he is merely making the case that one can approach social issues and responses without infringing liberty and individual freedom as it has been historically understood in the United States. Some people, and these particular bishops are a good example, seem wedded to the idea that Catholic social teaching requires a specific commitment to a large bureaucratic structure while basically ignoring questions of what happens to liberty as more power in concentrated in the hands of those with coercive authority (i.e. the government).
Karl LaFong, you mustn’t toss the term “immoral” around. Do you mean “immoral” as in intrinsically evil, like abortion, or do you mean “I disagree with those proposals because, in my opinion, they are imprudent.” Catholics can disagree in the latter case, but not the former. And, if it is mean-spirited to cut spending, is it not also mean-spirited to have made grandiose promises you can’t really deliver on?
Unless you base a moral critique on the actual budget numbers…. you or the USCCB are just making unsupported assertions. Google Ryan’s budget and compare it with the current on-going resolution. You’ll note that Ryan’s budget is not a net CUT in overall spending but rather a reduction in the rate of growth.
How one can claim that growing at 2% rather than 4% is “immoral” is beyond me. Especially in light of the mathematics of Federal debts, deficits, interest rates, and exponentals….i.e. health care costs are raising at 8% per year. Which means they’ll double within 7 years. Which means if we’re paying $850 billion per year for Medicare right now, we’re on track to spend $1.7 trillion by 2020.
The defense budget has never grown by 8% per year. I doubt we’ll be able to finance such growth even without a defense budget. So this means we won’t.
Now…who gets hurt the most when the Federal Government faces a Greek like collapse? Not the rich but the utterly dependent poor. So how is it moral to claim that the poor ought to be made even more utterly dependent on wealth transfers when we know such transfers will end sooner than later?
Sorry for the late response. I was involved with the Diaconate process in the Diocese of Kingston Ontario. At a home meeting, I asked we pray that Obama wouldn’t get elected. The response from one of the head-Deacon’s wife was: What are you…a bigot? “No”, I replied, “it’s just that he is the most pro-abortion president in the history of the U.S.”
That was one of the reasons I was asked to withdraw from the program. So sad!
The Ryan question above is, at best, incomplete and, at worst, misleading. I, like many Catholics who disagree with Ryan’s claim that his budget proposal follows Catholic teaching, do not question Ryan’s integrity as a Catholic. That’s a matter solely for Ryan and his confessor. And, the notion that opposing Ryan’s proposal means support a larger deficit is again incomplete or misleading. I agree with the USCCB, who deemed Ryan’s proposal immoral, that we do need to cut spending and can do it many ways other than the mean-spirited ways Ryan proposes.
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