Imagine you are a reasonably knowledgeable, faithful Catholic, comfortable in your own skin. How long would it take you to answer a few questions, such as: Can a woman be ordained a priest? Is homosexual activity wrong? Is abortion wrong? Is artificial contraception wrong? No. Yes. Yes. Yes. That was easy. Of course, much more can be said to explain these answers, but they are correct answers.
Unless you are Sister Pat Farrell, president of the Leadership Conference of Women Religious (LCWR), which represents religious congregations comprising some 80% of the women religious in the United States. In April, the Vatican’s Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith issued a doctrinal assessment of the LCWR. The assessment, the result of exchanges with the LCWR over four years, found that the LCWR was not fully supportive and representative of Catholic doctrine. Examining the presentations made at LCWR assemblies and the materials prepared for the formation of leaders within the congregations, the assessment found either conflict with Catholic faith, confusion or a disturbing silence. The issues included ordination of women, homosexuality, contraception and abortion.
Before addressing its doctrinal concerns, the assessment praised the good works carried out by the women religious represented by the LCWR. Their contributions to the life of the Church and the welfare of the poor and needy are well known and rightly honored. Yet, as publicly consecrated religious, they are expected to give full support to the Catholic faith in their life and works. These aims — the works of charity and the mission to teach the faith — are not in conflict. Indeed, the works must be guided and inspired by sound faith and doctrine.
Interviewed for 40 minutes recently by Terry Gross on NPR’s Fresh Air program, Sister Pat found it hard to give a straight answer to questions about the issues raised in the assessment. She made some fair points about the need for discussion and communication within the Church and the valuable experience that women can bring to deliberations. But that can never mean that settled doctrine can be put up for reconsideration because it turns out to be demanding or not in accord with current fashion. Here’s how she responded when asked about Catholic doctrine on human sexuality:
“And I would say that we are — we have been, in good faith, raising concerns about some of the Church’s teaching on sexuality, human sexuality: the problem being that the teaching and interpretation of the faith can’t remain static and really needs to be reformulated, rethought, in light of the world we live in and new questions, new realities, as they arise. And if those issues become points of conflict, it’s because women religious stand in very close proximity to people at the margins, to people with very painful, difficult situations in their lives. That is our gift to the Church. Our gift to the Church is to be with those who have been made poorer, with those on the margins. And questions there are much less black and white because human realities are much less black and white. So that’s — that’s where we spend our days. And so the questions we bring to the Church, the questions that come to us, are from the real-life situations of real-life people.”
How does the Church’s doctrine on human sexuality prevent the sisters from showing compassion and helping people in painful situations? Indeed, the Catechism of the Catholic Church, in speaking of homosexuality, insists on the dignity and human rights of all and requires charity and compassion. What “new realities” have changed human nature and the law of God? How can the sisters really help people without calling them to the love of God and acceptance of God’s will for them? There is no conflict between helping people dealing with sexual issues and supporting Catholic teaching; the best help will be fully informed by Catholic faith.
What about abortion? The doctrinal assessment criticized the LCWR for not supporting Catholic teaching on abortion; the LCWR has been silent on the issue and has not addressed it in the many speakers it offers at its assemblies or in the materials it provides for the formation of religious, many of whom are counseling women and couples or teaching young people.
The LCWR and its members talk incessantly about social justice, yet they have nothing to say about this most fundamental violation of social justice. When asked for her comment, here’s what Sister Pat said:
“So I think the criticism of what we’re not talking about seems to me, again, unfair, because religious have clearly given our lives to supporting life, to supporting the dignity of human persons. Our works are very much pro-life. We would question, however, any policy that is more pro-fetus than actually pro-life. You know, if the rights of the unborn trump all of the rights of all of those who are already born; that is a distortion, too, if there’s such an emphasis on that.
“However, we have sisters who work — all of our congregations have sisters who work in right-to-life issues. We also have many, many ministries that support life, who — we dedicate our efforts to those on the margins of society, many of whom are considered kind of throwaway people: the cognitively impaired, the chronically mentally ill, the elderly, the incarcerated, the people on death row. We have strongly spoken out against the death penalty, against war, hunger. All of those are right-to-life issues.
“And there’s so much being said about abortion that is often phrased in such extreme and such polarizing terms that to choose not to enter into a debate that is so widely covered by other sectors of the Catholic Church — and we have been giving voice to other issues that are less covered but are equally as important.”
Is Sister Pat saying that the Church’s position on abortion is distorted, that it is “pro-fetus” rather than truly pro-life? Is she claiming that the right to life for the innocent unborn child is no more important than the rights of the hungry or prisoners or the mentally disabled? The right to life is the fundamental right. There are no other rights if you are dead. Further, there is a false dichotomy being claimed here, as if the rights of the unborn somehow conflict with the rights of those already born. An unborn child’s right to life might conflict with the wishes and convenience of those already born, but not with any rights they have. The very rare cases in which a pregnancy endangers the life of the mother are recognized and dealt with in Catholic doctrine.
And so it went. There was no topic raised by the interviewer for which Sister Pat could simply say, “Of course, we fully support the teaching of the Catholic Church.” Instead, everything needs more discussion, the sisters have a different perspective more in touch with the real world than other “elements in the Church” (like bishops, presumably), and the sisters have their own priorities, so don’t expect them to support (or even acknowledge) the bishops’ priorities.
Lurking in all this is what might be called an ecclesiological divide, a gap between what the Church understands and teaches about herself and what Sister Pat and her colleagues in the LCWR understand and act on. Here is how she put it:
“I think that the Church has been structured with all-male leadership, which I think has serious disadvantages, and that the Church has been structured with a hierarchical, unquestioned structure that has little mechanism for accountability.
“That’s so different from our reality within women’s congregations, because, for one thing, we elect all our own leaderships, and we have forever — in the history of women’s religious life — have experienced the leadership of strong women. Women have been leaders in our ministries. We’re a very educated group of women within the Catholic Church. We have women who are CEOs of hospitals, of hospital systems, who are presidents of colleges, principals of schools. So as women religious, our lifetime experience has been of expecting strong leadership from women; and that’s been our daily experience. So our experience of the leadership of women in the Church is our daily bread. It’s very different from that at the hierarchy [level].”
Apparently, Sister Pat thinks that the model for the Church should be a democratic discussion group, preferably led by women. What she describes may well be appropriate for some groups within the Church, but it cannot be the structure of the whole Church. The Church is not free to change the structure instituted by Christ, and that structure is hierarchical, with Christ as the head and bishops as the successors of the apostles. “He who hears you hears me.” “Whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven, and whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven.” No doubt there are problems and failings, but that is the structure we are given to receive the faith and work out the life of Christ in time.
This doesn’t mean that the sisters have nothing to say that the bishops need to hear. Like all laity, they have the right and even the duty to make representations to the bishops and to be heard respectfully. But the bishops also have the right to expect that clear teachings on matters of faith and morals will be fully accepted and supported, not continually questioned, contested or ignored. There is a duty of obedience owed by all Catholics to the legitimate exercise of teaching authority in the Church.
And speaking of obedience, how did Sister Pat describe her vow of obedience, always a hallmark of consecrated religious?
“Well, first of all, obedience to God. But the word ‘obedience’ comes from the Latin root meaning ‘to hear; to listen.’ And so, as I have come to understand that vow, what it means to me is that we listen to what God is calling us to in the signs of our times. We listen to the voice of God in legitimate Church authority, in the pain and the hopes and the aspirations of the people of our time. We listen to the voice of God in the depths of our own hearts and in our consciences, and that, all of that together, is what we listen to in trying to discern: What is God really calling me to? And it’s to that that I must be obedient.”
The interviewer then asked, “So, in your mind, the obedience isn’t directly to the Church hierarchy — it’s to God.”
Sister Pat: “It’s first to God. First to God.”
Well, at least she mentioned legitimate Church authority.
But it was quickly lost in the consideration of circumstances and personal perceptions, ending in a very subjective discernment of the will of God. To what, then, has Sister Pat vowed obedience? Why did she take a vow within a constituted religious community within the structure of the Church? What does she need all that for? She reminds me of someone who is said to have struggled with his conscience. It seems he always wins.
In the coming week, Fresh Air will interview Bishop Leonard Blair of Toledo, Ohio, who led the study that resulted in the LCWR’s doctrinal assessment.
Donna F. Bethell is chairman of the board of directors of Christendom College.
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When will the Church be obedient to God’s Will as expressed through the Lady of Fatima and provide a singular consecration of Russia?
SIster Pat; “the leadership of strong women” you mean like Mother Theresa? I Wonder what she would have said about your OPINIONS… you sister are a CINO, Catholic In Name Only… you do not understand the central mysteries of the church. You ASSUME that your own personal ideas supercede 2,000 years of Catholic thinking, 2,000 years of Catholic blood, 2,000 years of Catholic sweat, 2,000 years of Catholic tears, and 2,000 years Catholic tradition… instead the great and powerful YOU CHOOSE to follow in the footsteps of Henry VIII et.al. I Wonder where Dante would place you… maybe with a couple of the bad Popes… eh?
IMHO, American women religious communities have lost true sense of their vocation and their very special role in the Church when they decided to rid the traditional habits and begin to look like everyone else on the street. They didn’t want to be noticed for their special ministry as true servants of God and the Church. Rather, the focus and the “lights” was about them and them alone and all the good that they do. True that they are not part of the Church hierarchy, however, they still hold a very special place in the “heart and spirit” of the Church which is the Body of Jesus Christ. And as the Blessed Virgin Mary would say, “Do as he says.”
So by becoming “independent” they’ve segregated themselves from the Church as a whole by placing themselves as “hierarchy” of the Church and taken the stage to be “authorities” on Church doctrine and tradition, which is only passed on from the Apostles to the bishops.
I’m not surprised that American women religious have become self-seeking and self-promoting. Other religious women in other countries continue to be true and faithful to the whole Church and place themselves in her service.
It is truly not obedient if she can’t even give a straight and true answer to the very simple issues that the Church has properly and rightfully taught through Faith and Doctrine.
Jesus Christ is the answer and he never defined the Father in anything.
HOW SAD!!!!! I hope these people will see the error of their ways! So misguided indeed! The Son of Perdition has really taken their souls! Saint Joseph! and Saint Anthony, pray for them!
I never thought I’d be disgraced by EWTN, in a comparison with the LCWR. But this article by Ms Bethell is arrant flogging. I am deeply ashamed.
First of all, nothing Sr. Pat is reported to have said is in any way scandalous or unexpected. She is a woman religious, and responds in a perfectly appropriate way. Not being the Pope comes with some advantages, and one of them is the privilege of voicing an opinion.
Secondly, everything Sr. Pat says is true. At the very least, she is covered by plausibility. Why assume she’s some terrible heretic? Doesn’t she deserve a shadow of a doubt?
Finally, the tone of the article is nothing short of inquisitorial, and very unattractive. I would not feel impelled to “break bread” with the author of this article. I would be, and am, incredible turned off by the whole smell of it.
I call your attention to the affair of Mother Angelica and Cd. Mahoney. Have we come so far down the road of respectability to forget the impulsive, unpredictable, and indeed “catholic” power of the Holy Spirit?
Don’t attempt to bottle it.
I supplied a lengthy response to this interview at a friend’s curiosity, but it appears that I got a truncated version or something. The part about female leadership reveals such a maddening and bewildering blindness that I could just tear my hair out. If they are able to organize their communities that way, it’s because it is not prohibited, because bishops really, actually have better things to do than be ruthless and petty micromanagers after all!
The author writes: “The Church is not free to change the structure instituted by Christ, and that structure is hierarchical, with Christ as the head and bishops as the successors of the apostles.”
Christ did not stipulate that the church hierarchy should be all-male, should be celibate. The all-male hierarchy decreed that long after Christ’s death.
The hierarchy has been amiss in not emphasizing that social and economic policies that drive people into poverty are apt, other things being equal, to lead to an increase in abortions, and are therefore morally wrong; that their authors and advocates are complicit in abortions, even though they do not get their hands dirty with the bloody business of abortion.
The LCWR may be guided too much by the heart and not enough by the head; on some issues the male church hierarchy seems to have no heart - unlike Jesus, who wept when he saw human suffering.
Thank you for quoting Sister Pat Farrell’s carefully constructed answers to complex questions faced by men and women in the church. She has given insight into how the LCR formulates pastoral solutions to the problems American families face every day. It will be interesting to listen this week to any new insights into solving these same problems offered by Bishop Blair when he is a guest on Fresh Air. Let’s hope his answers will be more nuanced than just “yes, no, no, no.”
These two ladies need he strongest medicine we can offer: excommunication. And as therapy, after the “pill” has taken effect, public apology and reparation of their very serious errors. Then, back to basics: kneel in front of Our Lord and stay there until you’ve heard Him loud and clear: “I am”
Let’s pray for these women conversion.
You say: “Apparently, Sister Pat thinks that the model for the Church should be a democratic discussion group, preferably led by women.” I know of two older nuns in two different congregations that young dissident prideful nuns took over, via a “democratic” process, and then the older nuns were silenced as dissent and heresy were crammed down their throats by “progressive” nuns who were so “caring” and who sought “social justice.” Older true Catholic ladies who gave their lives in service to others are warehoused and fed three times a day until they die. These true brides of Christ have and will have their rewards. The power-play nuns who took over these congregations were no different from Alinsky-inspired community organizers in Chicago. By their fruits you will know them and the congregations with the dissenters running the show are literally dying off…last one out the door turn the light off while you say “hierarchy sucks.” Study these dissenters closely and you will see that they are NOT for democracy, not for every voice being heard - as they bash an alleged harmful hierarchy they are pushing an aggressive arrogant feminist matriarchy without any motherly love. Their proposed cure is much worse than any disease they screech about.
Somehow, Sr. Ferrell has forgotten that obedience to God *is* obedience to the magesterium, the Holy See, the bishops, and it is what He demands of her…much less her works of social justice. What good are these charitable works if done for power and prestige, rather than glory to God? Ferrell and her dissident squadron are egotistic and full of themselves. They have an exagerrated sense of their own importance. It is sickening.
If these are Sister Pat Farrell’s answers then they do not sound Catholic, but a for of protestantism. Mother Church is very tolerant, but being the Repository of Faith, owes it to the faithful to have their teachings Catholic. There is no rival Magisterium. This is not a disagreement on issues, but of authority. If it can be determined by the proper authorities (and that does not mean theologians but the church authorities) that Sister Farrell is in violation of Canon Law then appropriate remedies should be applied. This is not a minor oversight, but a repeated pattern by this group. I am sure they have done much good, but the chief objective of the Catholic Church is to save souls. That cannot be done without adherence to the structure of the Church authority because the authority of Apostolic Succession was founded by Jesus, the Son of God. That Apostolic succession is found in the bishops and Catholic teaching IS the Pope, the Magisterium and Catholic Tradition as determined by the Church. Sister Farrell needs our prayers not for her agenda, but for her to return to the fold.
Oh! and how timely the Office of Readings today. Magisterium teaching at its best.
Reading From a letter to the Magnesians by Saint Ignatius of Antioch, bishop and martyr
One prayer, one hope in love and in holy joy
In the persons I mentioned, I saw and loved in faith your whole community; and so I urge you to strive to do all things in harmony of God. The bishop is to preside as God’s representative, the presbyters are to perform the rule of the apostolic council, and the deacons, who are so dear to me, are to be entrusted with the service of Jesus Christ, who was with the Father before time began and has now at last manifested himself to us. Follow the ways of God, and have respect for one another; let no one judge his neighbor as the world does, but love one another always in Jesus Christ. Let there be nothing among you that could divide you, but live in accord with the bishop and those who are over you as a sign and a pattern of eternal life.
The Lord did nothing either of himself or through his apostles without his Father, with whom he is united; so too, you should undertake nothing without the bishop and the presbyters. Do not attempt to persuade yourselves that what you do on your own account is right and proper, but when you meet together there must be one petition, one prayer, one mind, one hope in love and in holy joy, for Jesus Christ is one and perfect before all else. You must all be quick to come together, as to one temple of God, one altar, to the one Jesus Christ, who came forth from the one Father, while still remaining one with him, and returned to him.
Do not be led astray by false doctrines or by old and idle tales. For if we still live by the law, we admit that we have not received grace. But the holy prophets lived according to Jesus Christ, and that is why they were persecuted. They were inspired by his grace to bring full conviction to an unbelieving world that there is one God, manifested now through Jesus Christ his Son, his Word, who came forth from the Father and was in all things pleasing to the one who sent him.
Those who lived by the ancient customs attained a fresh hope; they no longer observed Saturday, but Sunday, the Lord’s day, for on that day life arose for us through Christ and through his death. Some deny this mystery, but through it we have received our faith and because of it we persevere, that we may prove to be disciples of our only teacher, Jesus Christ. Even the prophets awaited him as their teacher, since they were his disciples in spirit. That is why Christ, whom they rightly awaited, raised them from the dead when he appeared. How then can we live without him?
RESPONSORY 1 Peter 3:8, 9; Romans 12:10, 11
You should all be of one mind,
caring for one another, kind, compassionate and humble;
– this you have been called to do
so that you may obtain a blessing as your inheritance.
Love one another with brotherly affection;
outdo one another in showing respect,
and serve the Lord.
– This you have been called to do
so that you may obtain a blessing as your inheritance
The effects of original sin in full display.
Sister Pat does not look like any religious at all with this low neck line dress, I found it real pathetic.
The most troubling part of dissent in the realm of the human person is the ommission of the word or recognition of the ‘soul’. In 1 Thess. 5:23, St. Paul prays that “God may sanctify his people ‘wholly,” with ‘spirit and soul and body” kept sound and blameless at the Lord’s coming. (CCC236)
Where in all of the dialogue do our separated ‘sisters’ recognize the intrinsic worth of the soul especially in the marginalized where redemptive suffering becomes a means by which that human person can find His dignity in communion with God and not fabricated in the guise of “compassion”. As a Catholic Christian Professional counselor..many of us also work on the edges of pain and the unexplainable; and in the realm of serving the healing ministry of men ane women wounded by abortion; almost 40 years ago a woman after sharing her abortion experience and sorrow offered “It’s my soul that hurts”. Let us minister to the soul.
Discussion? Dialogue? Leadership positions? Who is our God?
As Forrest Gump would say: heretic is as heretic does .... enjoy the eternal heat worldly sisters!!
Many Catholics would agree with Sr. Pat, and not the Official Church views. Many Catholics are Open Minded-the Church is closed-minded. In the past the Church defended errors-and still does!
her views seem inconistent to me. i think sisters and women probably deserve a greater say in our 2000 year old hierarchy, but our theology in the areas mentioned in the interview is not open for debate.
Somewhere Sister’s model of the Church became distorted from the model of the Church which has been proclaimed for centuries…Actually, by naming women superiors exclusively to oversee congregations of women, they violate their own logic of equality for all. Also, using the word ‘trumps’ establishes an inequality between the unborn and the living, when in our Country we proclaim equality for all. Her basic difficulty is she rejects the idea of ‘objective truth’ and has bought in to the lie of modernity…!!!
I met an older Sister of Charity last week after Monday mass. It was a breathe of “fresh air” to hear her frustration with the misdirected leadership of her (and other) religious order.
Let’s remember that there are many faithful women religious, even if their leadership are misaligned with them and with Church teachings. Praying for them all….
I must admit, when I look at our Anglican ‘vicarettes’, here in England, and your nuns of a certain persuasion, I can’t help believing Phrenology is a much maligned science, and they really do have a certain look about them…
Very sad, but nothing new. The church has always had lost souls within its ranks. It’s very good that these leaders are being called to task.
Dear Brethren: I ask, what comes first in mans heart, Gods desires or mans desires? Even denominational doctrine cannot take priority over Gods desires per the Holy Scriptures. I ask, why become a Roman Catholic if one does not accept the doctrinal layout of the Church? Purity, holiness and righteousness God asks has not changed. It is the same yesterday, today, or tomorrow. The common, fleshy man is always seeking to manipulate Gods expectations of what man, Gods creation is to be. So is free will. Next we must look at those who knew the truth, yet, believing that “In the name of God”, they are advocating for the people even if that which the advocates advocate for is classified in Gods eyes, per the Holy Scriptures, is immoral, impure and unholy. Gods guidelines of morality, purity, and holiness has been pasted down age to age. And, todate, as I believe, the Roman Catholic Church has sought to maintain those guidelines of morality, purity and holiness honoring God first not man. Even when evil has creeped into the walls of the Roman Catholic Church, the Church has had to do its own cleanup within the walls. Therefore, live and learn. Nevertheless, There are those who are used by the devil to walk in flesh not the Spirit with motives, under deception, to tear down which God has raised up and is maintained in “what saith the Lord God.” If those who have the title Nun don’t like the doctrinal expectations laid out and maintained by The Roman Catholic Church authority, then please, go on to another denomination, such as the Episocopal Church and seek further the desires of man to fulfill the flesh. In the oath of those, who at the beginning, made a vow of chasity and submission to God first and to church authority, need to be reminded they are married to Jesus and to His church and the vow of matrimony to the union of two hearts and spirits can be broken by the priest or the nun. And in the world today, we are witnessing the spiritual prostitution of nuns and priests to the god of this world. It is a time of revelation of the dirt that is in the creaves of mans heart and minds. And the revealing the true motives of why do you do what you do. The Holy Scriptures say, your righteouse acts are as dirty rags. It is the purity of the heart which cleanses the deeds done in the act first of serving God and then serving man. It is not about the deed, either it be by ones hands or thru ones advocacy; it is about the true conversion of mans heart, a priest or a nuns heart, to God thru the true love of Jesus Christ. We are the hands of Jesus, the heart of Jesus, the mouth of Jesus, the feet to Jesus, yet if in the heart the seed of deception is planted and becomes rooted the fruits of ones such as heart corrupted priests or heart corrupted nuns will demonstrate betrayal to The Way, The Truth and the Life of Jesus Christ desires. It is what I call The Judas Project; one by one by one, beginning with Judas himself who at first loved Jesus, yet, the spirit of the world took over his heart and then his actions, and we all know the rest of the story. This organization, the LCWR, is promoting heresy, apostasy in motion, to Gods theology and the theology of the Roman Catholic Church. So I ask what is stopping Rome in taking away the spiritual habits, the collars of these who say they are married to Christ and the RCC and just let them go into the prostestant arena to further eat up the sheep. Jesus said,” beware of wolves in sheeps clothing.” Jesus said, in simple words, “You (the people) will know (confirm) My disciples (not the Evil Ones) by their (true believers) fruits (what they do and advocate for).” So, to the Faithful, my Brethen of the Roman Catholic Church, honestly, does the leadership of the LCWR promote 1) the expectations of God in purity, holiness and morality, per the Holy Scriptures? And 2) Does the leadership of the LCWR represent the authority and the positive reflection of the high living standards of the Roman Catholic Church to the world? I say no to each question based on what the reports are over a period of time given to the world to read. The spirit of the antichrist has been on a great Wave to attack and tear down the largest Christian denomination in the world and that includes the attacks from the President of the United States, Mr. Obama, and his Death Panel associates. If someone in the high positions of the Roman Catholic Church doesn’t take the rheins today and take control of the evil seeking within the Catholic Church to destroy, then I say, you get what you allowed, the opening of the Pandoras Box for demise. I, as one, stand for truth, per God, as laid in the Holy Scriptures and to stand firm on my marriage vows to the Bridegroom, Jesus Christ. I choose not to prostitute myself with the ways of the world and become drunk with power, greed, and the persuasive ways of the Master of lies. These nuns have broken their vows to Jesus Chrsit, His corporate church, and their vows to the Roman Catholic Church. Thus, the resolution of renegade’s is up to the powers to be of the church’s authoratative structure…...The Rose
It’s apparent that any nod to further discussion made by Sr. Farrell is simply a tactic not a good faith effort. The interview indicates that she has no intention of moderating her opinions, period. I wonder to what extent she actually reflects the opinions of the women religious she purports to represent. This is a case where a punitive sanction is called for, sooner rather than later.
Yes, this is troubling. Yes, this is scandalous. Yes, this causes confusion. HOWEVER, there is cause for hope and rejoicing. The aging hippie nuns are from congregations that are NOT getting new vocations. The congregations and orders who ARE getting vocations are solidly Catholic and faithful to the Magisterium….. and YOUNG women are beating a path to their doors. Nope, they may not be on NPR or on Capitol Hill BUT they are affecting change in the lives of everyday, ordinary people. More conversions and saints are made in life’s ordinary encounters than in anything the LCWR is doing.
Let us pray for the solid Catholic sisters who are in these nutty congregations. I’m related to such a sister. She and her fellow retirees would love nothing more than to be back in the classroom, spending their days with kids. But their leadership thinks they help the poor more by hopping on buses and schmoozing with liberal pols than by being a part of affordable Catholic education. If the LCWR still believed in an examination of conscience, this might be something upon which to meditate!!!
“interpretation of the faith can’t remain static”
Well, since God is unchanging and truth is unchanging, then that cannot a true statement except in very limited situations (e.g. how we approach the sacrament of reconciliation has changed over the last 2000 years).
Most disturbing is her “pro-fetus” comment. That is the language of the pro-abort left: to minimize the value of a human life by calling it something other than what it is - a developing baby.
Double talk, most of it. Quite clearly.
Also elitism. The nuns are strong women, educated, who know what is best. Not only that, *they* know about real life.
The men, and the faithful laity, er, not so much.
Hogwash. While I know this is an unfair generalization, my experience 80 percent of the time since conversion has been of nuns who have been bleeding heart messes, who showed no more interest in doctrine than Joe Biden. In fact, the nun who led the RCIA for me pointed to a shelf of CCCs and said, “Oh, it’s wonderful, but very complicated! We prefer to use this…” and proceeded to sell copies of William Angor Anderson’s “In His Light,” a book perfectly matching the tepid and disingenuous tone of American Religious orders. Too many of them are anxious to redefine Catholicism to match their personal narratives.
@Ric Dykstra: “Many Catholics would agree with Sr. Pat, and not the Official Church views. Many Catholics are Open Minded-the Church is closed-minded.”
Sadly, your first sentence is true, but only because most Catholics don’t know their faith. Furthermore, an open mind can be like a garbage can - it gets a lot of trash thrown in it. It’s more important to cultivate a discriminating mind that pursues critical thinking rather than indulging in the openminded nonsense of our culture.
Pathetic….in light of all that has happened I hope that the LCWR is suppressed and the nuns who are under their thumb and decide for themselves if they want to reform and conform.
Sister, if you understood where the truth is, perhaps you’d be more obedient. The Bible itself says where the Truth is found. Not in your concience, not in the pains and aspirations of the poor, not in your own heart. Yes, some truth can be found there. But the Bible tells us exactly where to find “the pillar and foundation” of the truth… the church. Which means, in the absence of Jesus we must follow the Church. Obedience to our hearts, conciences or anything else may lead us in the right direction; but they also - as apparently in your case, may not.
So, basically, this sister, like those before her who thought authority was inconvenient, is a Protestant. Good to know.
All we can do right now is to pray for these floundering lost souls. “May God have mercy on your soul” Amen
First: The Bad News: These sweet little old ladies are anything but sweet and ladies. Absolute heretics and disobedience to their vows and Church Authority and Magisterium
Now: The Good News: The average age of this group and their orders is 75+ years old. What the Church hasn’t done God has. They are dying fast and have few if any new vocations. Ten years from now these orders are permanently gone….to h*ll to contemplate “social justice” at the lowest level
Extra: More Good News: The minority association of religious orders comprised of Mother Superiors was approved in 1992. It has about 11M+ nuns…and is growing fast. Their average age is 35. Reasons? Faithful to their vows, Pope and Magisterium, they live in convents/community, all wear distinct habits, prayer and Eucharist are at the center of their lives. In a word? Tradational!
In the meantime there are many faithful elderly retired nuns who are trapped in Mother Houses that have no resemblance to the religious orders they joined as young women. They are victims and collateral damage to hijacked agenda in the name of “social justice”
As an older Catholic, I can remember when these “flower chlidren” entered the convents and seminaries, at least here in the Middle Atlantic states, many of the grads I went to school with left and returned home. They are the Church’s equivalent of the progressive liberals we are fighting in the courts trying to preserve our religious liberty.
Thank you, Pope Benedict XVI, for showing these Formal Heretics for what they are. I am grateful to our Lord for all of His mercy, He knows these so-called nuns will need it most.
Let us assume that sister patricia is not corrupt.
Then the only alternative explantion is that she is insane.
Look at this:
“On sexuality…....interpretation of the faith can’t remain static and really needs to be reformulated in light of ...........new realities” blah blah blah”
New realities? On Sexuality?
Of all the aspects of the human condition, what has changed less in 5000 years?
And this
“...abortion is often phrased in such polarizing terms that to choose not to enter into a debate that is so widely covered…“blah blah blah”
Those who care about Social Justice wont “enter into a debate” about mass murder, because it is polarizing?
Read more: http://www.ncregister.com/daily-news/lcwr-leader-given-national-platform-to-uphold-church-teaching.-what-did-she/#ixzz21TAsizKr
Read more: http://www.ncregister.com/daily-news/lcwr-leader-given-national-platform-to-uphold-church-teaching.-what-did-she/#ixzz21T9zUOEM
In response to Ric Dykstra, “Many Catholics would agree with Sr. Pat, and not the Official Church views. Many Catholics are Open Minded-the Church is closed-minded.”:
It is good to have an open mind, but not so open that every ill wind blows through.
Sister Pat is unlike any of the religious sisters I have known. I hope those orthodox sisters question the stances of some of these leaders. Sister Pat’s answer on NPR sound so… staged, and PC and, to use an overused and trendy word,...‘nuanced’.
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What has changed regarding human sexuality in the last several thousand years? ... and how are homosexuals ‘on the margins’? It seems like gays such as Tim Gill, Barney Frank, Elton John and others are pretty powerful, rich and elitist… enough to force their moral relativism on entire societies. Sisters should recognize truly disenfranchised or disadvantaged people instead.
Sad to see all the venomous comments hurled at sister Pat ... many appear to be responses to this article not the actual interview. The fear of hell and the devil keep many of you afraid to even consider challenging doctrine that on some levels you must at least feel are short of what Jesus taught… or at least we think taught… since the earliest Greek manuscripts date to more than a century after his death. So at the very foundations there is uncertainty as to the fullest meanings of what it means to be a follower of Christ teaching… what we do know is that we should do unto others only as we would have done to ourselves. Why cast suspicion and hatred towards SR Pat? I do not believe that is as Jesus would have us do. Love is the answer.
The problem with the LCWR is that they think that human ideologies, including cultural Marxism (as formulated by Antonio Gramsci, Herbert Marcuse and Theodor Adorno) are more important than the Gospel.
Thank God we have had great saints in the chair of Peter - venerable Pius Xii, blessed John XXIII, John Paul I, blessed John Paul the Great and that wonderful teacher of solid faith, Benedict XVI.
Thanks to them, the Church is going back to orthodoxy and vibrant Evangelicalism.
This statement by Sister Pat is both troubling and revealing “You know, if the rights of the unborn trump all of the rights of all of those who are already born; that is a distortion, too, if there’s such an emphasis on that” Does she mean the right to kill the innocent child in the womb? Why make a distinction between born and unborn. Biological evidence shows both to be alive. Every abortion stops a beating heart. How can there be social justice without the right to life? Why not help the mother and the child? Like a lot of modern liberals, her compassion is misplaced. The fifth commandment is not up for a vote. Those who reject it should stop calling themselves Catholic
Thanks for your witness to the Faith, brother. We can offer the heartache caused by the disobedience and heresy of others up as suffering that can be used for their spiritual betterment. God is good.
Allowing them to speak is probably a scandal. They are proud dissenters and pride goeth before a fall. May God have Mercy on them.
Great comments, especially Joe, Jeff B and jacoburn - I have tears in my eyes thinking of all the elderly sisters in these orders whose spokeswomen sow seeds of dissent among believers. Simple, beautiful, obedient women who consecrated their lives to Christ, deserve better leadership than these clever liberals like Sr. Pat.
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Sister Pat, do not be the mouthpiece for nihilist post modernity - celebrate our rich and righteous faith - I will pray fervently for you!
Rick, “venomous comments”?? It is Sr. Pat and her ilk that spout venom since they are misleading many poor souls. The Catholic Church is the Church Jesus founded and the Holy Spirit guides the Church in all things when teaching on Faith and Morals. Uncertainty as to what Jesus taught? God would not leave us with such moral uncertainty, which is why He gave us the Church so we would not have to grope around in the darkness. Love is the answer-and it is the Church, by upholding moral truths and the teachings of Christ that is being loving, not the sisters or anyone else who tries to sugar-coat things and offer so called compassion that is so very misguided. People like Sr. Pat are so full of pride and self-righteousness, they have surely lost sight of the Gospel.
In reply to Rick:
“Truth Himself Speaks Truly or There is Nothing True” by St Thomas Aquinas.
What all these radical feminist(exactly who they are) nuns have forgotten is Truth is absolute! It does not change with the whims of convention and relativism. Reason? Truth is not an idea! Truth is a person! The name of that person is Jesus Christ. This is a basic tenet of the Catholic Faith. If one can’t wrap their head around it then the ending will be bad.
Speaking the truth is a charitable thing to do. Nuanced political mumbo jumbo has put us exactly where we are today. Can’t fix or change ANYTHING unless you start with the truth of the problem or task at hand
Finally, for 2000+ years not ONE Dogma of the Catholic Faith/Church has ever changed. It can’t because Christ founded HIS Church. And Christ is Truth. And Truth doesn’t change. Peter and his successors are the visible head of the Church and together with the Bishops (Apostles successors)form the Magisterium(teaching authority) of the Church. His Church compiled and validated the Canon aka the Bible. The 3rd foundation of Oral Tradition was included and has been guarded and passed down by the Magisterium. This whole Process took 400+ years. Truth was never questioned until 1100+ years later until a monk named Luther unilaterally decided otherwise. 500 years later and 33,000+ “Christian” heretical denominations all claiming to be the one true faith, Christ’s Church still stands with NO Doctrines changed despite wars,scandal,bad priests, nuns and popes doing ALL the Bad things “humans” do. It is called sin. And that is why Christ came….to save us…from ourselves.
In the end this last 50 years of turmoil is all about authority and obedience and/or the lack thereof. Rather than leave the Church (like Luther et al) the rebels decided to remain and foment dissent within the Church. It is about their pride and lack of humility. It always is!
One of my favorite quotes is from St Leo the Great (461) It sums up the whole situation…to wit:....“For the entire victory of the Savior, the one that overcame the devil and the world, began in humility and ended in humility.”
When one contemplates the example of the real Humility displayed by the obedience of Jesus to His Father out of love for us and our salvation…it is mind blowing. The final humiliation is He reduces His real presence to the form of simple bread so he can remain with us until His promised return.
Folks have forgotten the purpose of the Church and the One Truth Faith:
First: Glorify God; Second: Evangelize the True Faith boldly; Third: Attend Temporal Matters. The first and second have been essentially ignored for number three. Today it is called “social justice” which is politically correct code for “socialism” as practiced by radicals in the Church. Humility and Obedience are anathema to the “Socialism”. Truth is the antidote and they can’t handle Truth.
One wonders, why bother with them?
Nobody joins. Today, a retro 1960’s style lesbian feminist would not want to waste time with mushy doubletalk, prevaricating and pretending all the time, a la Sister Patricia.
A catholic would be revolted.
And so now, the end is near, they face the final curtain.
Demographics is destiny
Here are the LCWR’s numbers.
workers retirees
1989 50436 29925
1999 31483 27382
2009 13913 22290
2019 4156 17260
20 years ago, they had power. A schism or strike could have shut down catholic schools and hospitals.
Today, theyve got 2-1/2 retirees for every wage earner. 20 years ago it was 0.6 By 2020 it will be 4-1/2.
The total number of workers is dropping at 12% per year. Their old age accounts are, on average, less than 40% funded.
Sr Pat is on very dangerous ground if she believes that Human Pro-life is more important than Foetus Pro-life. We live in the twenty first century an science has proven that foetus is a human being, not some other Genus , Species or “stuff” as asserted by abortion advocates
Heretics and wiccans. Reinstitute the bell, book and candle and throw them out. We need a visible sign that the Pope recognizes his own authority.
The question still begs, “Why are these women still Catholic Nuns?” Our church is so filled with corrupt Bishops. Fr Frank Pavone of Priests For Life was sanctioned by the Bishop of Amarillo, Texas where he was highly restricted from continuing his Pro-Life activities. The Vatican had to order his release. These two women are operating with impunity.
Under the pretext of “Obedience to God and not to Church”, many things which are considered wrong by Church teachings can be adopted. These Sisters have their Convents. They have a Superior, or Provincial and a set of rules.
When one sister brought a man to stay with her in her room for a night, the Superior would object, but the Sister would say ” In obedience to God, I find nothing wrong if my friend stayed in my room sometime. Why should I obey you when i am not like Mary Magdelene in her earlier days. I have a clear conscience. ” Another sister brought porn literature and distribued among others. When objected to, she replied ” I do’nt understand this. Where had Jesus objected to reading ? When I obey God, why should I obey your meaningless dictates ? “
Where will this trend go ? From the very beginning, especially from the onset of civilization there was authority and followers. Authority has to be obeyed. Free to go out of the religion or society or Convent if one is not inclined to obey.
I see you published a plethora of hate-screed directed at the LCWR sisters, but censored my comment which was critical of your approach, and the tone adopted by Ms. Bethell in her really unchristian criticism. Politics brings out the worst in people, and the people of NCR are no exception. “Set your mind on the higher things…” What a laugh.
Sounds like exerpts from the trials at Nuremberg. While many have opined long and poignantly on the topic of “authority,” I wonder what is the criteria for judging this authority? Is authority “in name only,” or does the authority of the Church rest on some kind of actual legitimacy? If some religious sisters - who are psychological girls really - prefer Obama to the scions of the Church, can we really blame them? Obama is providing leadership, in his own demented way. Whereas the bishops of the Church are turning out to be the “blind guides,” whom Jesus rebuked. I understand loyalty to the constituted authorities, but the scriptures are full of condemnations of unjust shepherds. Does the shoe fit?
A final thought for the slag-heap:
The Church teaches “authority.” But if the bishops have this authority, why do they need to prove it? Shouldn’t it be apparent to all? After all, St. Peter healed people with only his shadow, raised a woman from the dead, called down judgment on Annanias and Sapphira (and they died). Where is the similar “authority” of our current bishops?
It’s ironic that God has made these bishops take their stand around insurance coverage for church employees, and that the devil Obama has painted them into a corner. This is a timid, tepid group that cares more about premiums than about life or conscience.
There may be one or two exceptions, but until they come to dominate and direct the pale rest, we can expect no good thing from the Catholic Church in America.
So that’s why I’m disinclined to be overly critical of poor sisters. “Wisdom is vindicated by her children.” Who knows, they may be right? But you won’t be reading that at NCR.
I’ve said it before, and I’ll say it again: this is the scourge of consecrated religious life. A church within the Church, schism. Despite the great saints and wonderful history that can be find in the various religious orders, the history of consecrated life is filled with falling away, with sinful division. Indeed many of the great saints emerging from CR life are because they were reformers. The issue is simple, CR life is inherently ripe for creating disobedience to the bishops. Over and over again this has happened. There were no “orders” in the early Church. Someday the Church will wise up and do away with this madness. Local orders beholden to a bishop within a diocese makes sense, but anything beyond those boundaries, history simply repeats itself. There should be no such thing as orders outside of dioceses and certainly no national or international orders. Some may think this is radical… but it is the way it was in the Early Church until medieval times.
Peter,
What??? From the very, very beginning of the Christian Church, the leadership has always been all male (Last Supper). Christ gave the power to change bread and wine to his body and blood, to forgive sin. Please read about the church before making incorrect comments.
It seems that the entire tone of Sr. Pat’s responses reflect an ideology of “relativism” that Pope Benedict XVI has decried as the root cause of how we as Chuch have strayed from the fundamental “truth” of Catholicism. If this is how the LCWR is reperesenting their constituents, they are in desperate need of our prayers to see the error of their ways.
Rick, I think you need to read the Didache, which is the oral teachings of the Apostles: http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/text/didache-roberts.html
If you take the time to read the second chapter (paragraph), you will see that the teachings of the church are the same today as they were then. Abortion is wrong, fornication is wrong, divorce is wrong, artificial contraception (i.e., “potions”) is wrong, etc. If you don’t think these things are wrong, just take a look around and see what’s going on. Look at all the self centeredness, broken homes, and neglected children.
Apparently, the sisters at the LCWR forgot all of this. They have been polluted with a secular misplaced sense of compassion. The fact that many Catholics do not “get it” either, doesn’t matter. This is not a democracy. The truth is not up for a vote.
Dear Brethren: It warms my heart to read the responses sent in by the Faithful. If we do not stand up and express our beliefs, then, we shall be taken over by heretics such as is now occurring in the Episcopal denomination. To stand up for Jesus Christ means that the Spirit of the Lord resides in many peoples hearts for The Spirit of God is the Spirit of conviction of what is truth and what is error. Another descriptive term for this conviction is the Gift of Discernment, knowing what is good and what is evil. Praise God for those who have the Gift of Discernment so they who have discovered Truth cannot be lead by the nose ring into the firy pits of hell here on earth and for eternity. True heart change and true conversion is reflected in what passions we each hold dear such as in the avenue of advocacy, standing up for what is really important to each of us. To become a new creature in and thru Christ is to lay yourself down at the foot of the Cross and surrender your all, believing in the atoning blood of Jesus Christ and the power of forgiveness to have the strength to rise up from from the mud clean and new and walk again with the Robe of Righteousness upon your shoulders and be empowered by the Spirit of the Lord as your fuel to live on past the Cross. What is now born is a new creature in and thru Jesus Christ. Jesus commands us to pick up our own cross and follow Him, in His foot steps, as we go into the world and live and learn thru new eyes, new heart and a new mind giving as Jesus gave. We are to learn as new babies what our weaknesses are and the temptations of the flesh common to man so then we each are aware of the wilds of the devil and our own selfish desires. If there is no true conversion along with the willingness to learn, “How do I live this new life”, man will convert back to the old nature even if man or woman wears a collar or a habit. The Holy Scriptures say. “Work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.” If a nun takes porno material into her room or a nun takes a man into her room, even if the authority is aware or not, that nun has not trully converted in the spirit for she is still dumb and weak and thus old nature desires take over. Conversion is the time to grow up and learn what it really means to be a child of God, to learn what it really means to be reconciled unto Gods heart, to learn what it really means to hear Jesus say, “no greater love than a man lay down his life for the brethen.” Live and learn to grow closer to God and to know what Love trully is. Meanwhile there are many, even priests and nuns, who have not trully converted in the heart and in the spirit and maintained the path of righteous living. Thus, the gift of Discernment is cast aside and heads up is not recognized when evil comes into the pathway to tempt the flesh, sensually, sexually, and pridefully. Thus is the nature of the creature, man, either they be Catholic, Prostestant or pagon, collar or a nuns habit. It trully is the blood of Christ on our hearts that has cleansed us from all iniquity and the Mark of Christ on our minds to refocus our intellect on what can man do for God in the name of Jesus. It is the power of the Holy Scriptures in belief that truth prevails in Word and in Deed so the Light of the Lord Jesus Christ shines in us and thru us to a world that witnesses the validity of what we say and do parallelling with “what saith the Lord.” Jesus said, “If I be lifted up I will draw all men unto Me.” In these reports of renegade nuns acting as if they were pounding the drums for evil spirits to rise from the earth thru agendas not of Gods election but mans. If you call “they” will come, that is evil spirts and “they” will reside and take over, if mans house is not clean. Praise God that this wave of revelation of unclean activity in the House of God thru the Roman Catholic Church is being revealed now for the Bridegroom is coming for a white Bride, soon and very soon. Praise God that these who are being called out for unrighteous behavior under the covering of the Church have another opportunity to ask for forgiveness and sincerely come unto the Marvelous Light of Truth and Salvation and walk again. God is good…Come out of the unclean thing and be saved….Now is the time….The Rose..
I still wonder who listens to these religious clowns?
Why give them so much an audience?
Why not let them cackle in the wilderness?
We are playing the secular media game seeking solely entertainment as a means to generate more revenue.
Silence, I believe, is the great solution, the most effective way to smother the irritating noise…
However I do appreciate NCR letting us know where evil tries to hide these days—regrettably under the skin of “desecrated life” after they changed the religious habit of commitment to the Lord to follow fads of modern fashion…
Barbara—you cannot nuance Faith, Morals and questions of Sin. That is just moral relativism and it is not only wrong but misleading to the flock.
Thank God the Holy See has started to reform the LCWR. This way they can be Christian again, instead of following whatever intellectual fashion happens to be popular at the moment.
George Weigel has a generic term for the way these two type of Sisters…and others like them…think/view their Catholic Faith—the “lens”—they use for thinking and acting re: The Church/life/society…its the “lens”... of “The Class of 1968”...those who came through their formative education/faith/cultural development…during the pinnacle year of the Church’s faith crisis and our Country’s cultural revolution…so I am not the least bit surprised…what can you expect…they “drank the cool aide”...now it is simply an issue of time? Pray for them ...yes, for sure and be very, very grateful for the objective truth based social work that they do…but,...expecting theological/vow discipline conversions…is less than naive.
Matt B, you say they may be right? About what? That the church is more pro-fetus versus pro-life? It seems to me that they’re saying we should be accepting abortion in certain instances? You’re Ok with that?
I am often confused about the church…Are we to follow the Bible and what it says or follow what the church says…Looks to me like its forget about the Bible and do what the church says….
MattB.
You do not “feel impelled to break bread with the author. You couldn’t debate her on the issues on a good day. Donna is my youngest’s Godmother and brilliant to say the least. You say,” everything Sister Pat says is true” is in itself false. Liberals whine and say “well” a lot because it offends them to make strong statements that they are too weak to defend.
A friend of mine has an younger sister who is about 70 and is a nun. My friend was astounded when her sister and her sister’s friend (also a nun) announced that they were communists. My friend didn’t know what to say and still can’t figure it out. I can’t either. Last time I checked the communists in any country that they have controlled, have taken away people’s right and killed millions. Go figure.
NY - Is it the job of the sisters to right the injustice of abortion, when even the bishops have been aloof to do so? Where are the bishops on any of the so-called hot button issues? They are late to the dance, or completely missing in action. I state that with certain exceptions. If the sisters have been inconspicuous on abortion, at least they have done SOMETHING! Don’t put them down because they haven’t done everything.
Also, didn’t Saint Somebody say: stop biting at each other lest you consume each other altogether. Your condemnation of these sisters is going to weigh heavily against yourself (as easy and pleasant as it seems now to do).
The way the sister answered is the questions is typical of liberals. You never get a straight answer form them. I thank God every day for Pope Benedict (for him doing his best to clean up the mess in the church). We should also pray for these poor sisters to repent.
Donna Bethel needs a course in Theology or Canon Law: “Sister Pat…made some fair points about the need for discussion and communication within the Church and the valuable experience that women can bring to deliberations. But that can never mean that *settled doctrine* can be put up for reconsideration because it turns out to be demanding or not in accord with current fashion.”
What Bethel calls “settled doctrine” is not “infallible” doctrine. It i “reformable.” Doctrine develops. The “theological notes” applied to an encyclical, an apostolic letter, or pronouncements of the CDF (all are the vehicles which have been used to communicate teaching on contraception, homosexuality and women’s ordination)—are “authoritative” but this does NOT meat they can never change. “Settled” doctrine is a misleading (and amateurish) way of talking about these issues (even women’s ordination is not “infallible”—just b/c a pope or CDF says so, the criteria are not met: i.e., that this is in fact “the sense of the faithful.” Unfortunately we have a magisterium (the pope is an exception) who reach their positions because of unquestioning loyalty, and not b/c of theological competence.
mws - I don’t doubt it. I had an opportunity to visit Christendom College, and was impressed by the holy peace that emanated from the place. That’s why I find it astounding that a trustee should be so bereft of that peace.
What does it matter that Sr. Pat is espousing extreme positions? She’s not a “teacher of the church.” I would much prefer to examine her by her actions, which by all accounts are considerable. Are you envious of all her “Fresh Air Time?”
The Lord said it best: Why are you judging my servant? She will be judged by her Master, not you. In the end, the only difference between your esteemed relative and Sr. Pat is in the flavor of the bile.
Zita - do you mean “unquestioning loyalty” to Jesus Christ? After all, that’s the standard our LCWR are using.
Matt B, you say the Bishops have done nothing about abortion and therefore it’s OK for the sisters to do the same? Do two wrongs make a right? Also, what exactly would you like the Bishops to do? The USCCB is already on record for supporting the 2,000 year old pro-life stance of the church and they are fighting the HHS mandate in court. If you read the Didache you’d see the apostles themselves said abortion was wrong in no uncertain terms. Do the sisters know more than the apostles?
Frank you stated: “I am often confused about the church…Are we to follow the Bible and what it says or follow what the church says…Looks to me like its forget about the Bible and do what the church says….”
Follow the Church and you ARE following scripture. They are not mutually exclusive. The Church came before the Bible as we know it, not the other way around. The Church is guided by the Holy Spirit and cannot err when teaching on matters of Faith and Morals. The Church is Christ’s Church and He gave it to us so we do not have to fumble around in the darkness. The Church is the number one interpreter of Scripture. If she wasn’t, and we were left to interpret ourselves, we would all have our different interpretations, just like the Protestants do.
Matt B, also, to answer your question, it is the job of the sisters to be in full communion with Rome and that means holding the line on abortion (as well as the rest of the church’s social teachings), not to go with the flow and start accepting such a thing.
Zita, the teaching on women’s ordination cannot and will never be changed. The Church has stated so many times already. It is not a discipline, like celibacy for priests is, which could be changed, and in fact, there are some married Catholic priests today. The reason women will never be able to be ordained priests is because the priests acts in the Person of Christ, who took on male, human form.
Is there some reason why these militant feminist nuns are not summarily dismissed from the convent to persue other community organizations more in line with their Obama doctrine? I mean, really? No great loss. Aren’t we tired of nuns and their liberal feminist agenda hiding behind the ruse of the “social gospel” —which, by the way, is socialism anyway. From the photo, we must assume Sr. Pat’s Mother Superior forgot to tell Pat there is a button missing from the top of her dress neckline.
I am a new, 49 year old convert to the Church after a life time in several Protestant churches. What intrigues me about conversations like this is the question of, “How do any of these sisters know they are right?” I mean, really know beyond a shadow of a doubt that their stand on the subject is the perfect will of God? Ultimately, where two people or groups disagree, one has to be right and the other wrong. Thus the question becomes, which is more likely true, 2000 years of teaching interpreted by a large group of trained theologians with a combined 6,000 years of experience (AKA the Magisterial)or a group on women whose ideas cannot be more than 50 years old at best.
Susan, what’s amazing is that you are a recent convert and you “get it” while many life long Catholics conceive of every possible inane argument in favor of these sisters.
It’s very easy to throw around labels like “liberal” “militant” and “feminist.” It easily replaces our obligation to do something affirmative. If I’m going to shame these nuns, I prefer to embarrass them by my good deeds, and not by my wicked tongue. Lead by example.
God is not fooled. If someone is traducing christian doctrine and causing scandal, they will be judged in the fulness of time. But it will be a sad day if they are pardoned because of their good deeds, while we who are “righteous talkers” are condemned for our lack of them.
As far as I am concerned, it’s no good deed to cast stones, like a muslim haji. Show me the money.
Sorry, I could not FORCE myself to read this entire article. In fact I could only stomach skimming the highlights - because I MIGHT VOMIT! These anti-Catholic LCWR women must realize that Jesus VOMITS every time they speak! And another point, these anti-Catholic LCWR people are going AGAINST GOD’s TEACHING (its not JUST the Church’s teaching). Finally, these LCWR beings ARE WRONG - and Jesus said that their Gates would NOT Prevail against His Church!
Great point, Susan. What these “nuns” are lacking are the virtues of humility and obedience, though they seem to be well fortified in the vice of pride. I truly feel sorry for all the faithful older nuns who have been marginalized within their orders by these aggressive disobedient nuns. To get a better insight on what has transpired within these orders since Vatican II and why Pope John Paul II allowed the more faithful orders to form the Council of Major Superiors of Women Religious, read “Sisters in Crisis.” It is a real eye opener.
I listened to that interview, Sr Farrell was an embarrassment,Ms Bethell knew her theology and represented Catholicism admirably.
Hard to believe God loves those sick chicks, but He does. I do hope they repent. They are not young, and don’t have a lot of time.
The sisters think like protestants why don’t they just go and do what protestants do best - begin a new “church” based on their own beliefs?
Frank, we do both. Please refer to my comment somewhere in the mix above. The Bible specifically says the Church is the pillar and foundation of truth. We need the authority of the Church to correctly interpret and follow the Bible (just like the apostles relied on Jesus to interpret scripture correctly). Without the constant of Church teaching, everything is up to individual interpretation…you see what happened after the reformation when people decided not to follow the Church anymore. Of course, there are also some biblical teachings that the Church gives us freedom to interpret ourselves because they have no specific stance on those subjects; but Church doctrine is what we follow. So when you ask “I’m confused as to what we are to follow, the Bible or the Church”, it’s a moot point. We need both - they are interconnected. What the Church teaches DOES NOT contradict what the Bible teaches. What INDIVIDUALS in the Church teach, sadly, does not always align with either Church doctrine or the Bible. The only person in the entire Church that we can rely on as absolutely infallible on faith and morals (and even then only under very specific circumstances) is the Pope. That is why these sisters are being scrutinized. The sisters can err in faith and morals as well as any priest, bishop, cardinal, and layman – including you and me. These sisters are in a position of authority within their congregations. As the Bible states, “to those who have been given much, much is required”. I’d rather see them pay for their mistakes now than later. Wouldn’t you?
What I find interesting is how these women - because they have certainly lost their right to be called Catholic sisters - have reduced Christianity to one passage of scripture: The Corporal Works of Mercy. They think that because they spend their lives dedicated to serving the poor, they now have some kind of authority to circumvent Jesus’ established Church and Her teachings. They are no different than others who have broken away from the Catholic Church to start their own denominations. They have no moral authority - except that given to them by other like-minded people (i.e. liberal media elites, Marxists academics, feminists, anti-Catholics). They’re the ones who keep causing the confusion by continuing to call them Catholic and add to the confusion - and the scandal.
Zita, You state that Donna Bethel should have a course in Theology or Canon Law. She has, in fact, a law degree (and a physics degree) and spent much of her life working on theological issues in the Church while holding high level jobs in the government and the business world. Her business took her to many different countries. She was a founding member of Women Affirming Life in the Washington D.C. area. She has more experience working with people in the Church, including working with various bishops, than anyone I know.
Matt, You’d be pleasantly surprised by how kind, funny, and gracious Donna Bethel is. Why is it that women are still judged as mean-spirited and “bereft of peace” as you referred to her, when they are strong, intelligent and conservative. I hope my 4 bright, strong daughters will be strong voices for the Church as Donna Bethel is.
Matt B: Jesus also said you will know them by their fruits. He also did not tiptoe around the Pharisees when criticizing their teaching and behavior : Woe to you hypocrites!! Whitewashed tombs full of dead men’s bones!! He called them. We need to call out these “Catholic” sister’s for what they really are, and they are liberal, militant, feminist along with disobedient, arrogant and proud. What good deeds are they doing by being pro-abortion? Helping some ‘poor’ woman to get an abortion, instead of leading her to Christ while helping her get good prenatal care and whatever she may need for the baby and herself? These sisters are leading many, many astray and putting souls in jeopardy- serious charges indeed.
Let he who is without sin cast the first stone .....Jesus
I am presuming that each of you who judged Sr Pat Farrell and many religious are faithful to every command of the church…always, every day…..we are all baptized Catholics and have the same obligation to live the gospel…please ensure that your own house is pure in every way…. The vitriol with which some of you write suggests otherwise…
@Matt B: Sorry, however, I am unable to “show you the money” in this combox for what I and others are doing so why do you assume we are not? You are free to wait for your “fullness of time” while the Lord calls the rest of us to stand and be more productive in the Kingdom. As for casting stones, you obviously have never read Mark 7 where Jesus Himself casted stones at people in religious positions. He also told us to not bother casting our pearls before swine as well.
When the Church ignores the countless works of mercy the nuns do every day, and instead focuses on their positions (or their silence) on women, sex and reproduction issues, they show how completely irrelevant the RCC - Vatican and many US bishops - are to the lives of ordinary Jesus-loving Catholics.
If the LCWR under the leadership of Sr. Pat can’t abide by the teachings of the Church,and or if these teachings make them feel uncomfortable, then maybe it is time for them to pick up their spiritual marbles and ride off into the sunset. Often times, I wonder that the different visions of the these religious congregation’s foundresses would tell the members of the LCWR.
Is there a reason for not including my message…
I repeat…let he who is without sin cast the first stone…..Jesus….and surely you are all without sin that you can judge so harshly
Oh, please, Kath. Being sinful ourselves should not prevent one from calling out the sinful behavior of others. What these sisters are guilty of is very serious and grave. They are leading others astray by being pro-abortion and gay marriage, etc. I have deeply repented of and confessed and been absolved of some serious, grave sins of the past. Does that mean that I should not try to bring others out of their own grave sins? The sisters remind me of the pharisees that Jesus spoke of in Matt 23:13:
“But woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! Because you shut the kingdom of heaven against men, for you neither enter yourselves nor allow those who would enter to go in.” By dissenting from the Church’s teaching on these serious matters, they themselves are spiritually out of the Church, and are keeping others from coming back in to it.
Kath, if the early Christian church followed your logic, they would have accepted the pagan practices and lifestyles of the rather decadent Romans, because after all, no Chritian is without sin. They thus would have had to remain silent on things like gladitorial combat. Don’t feel bad, when I was younger, I used the same mistaken logic.
over63tod, you say the church ignores countless works of mercy done by these sisters. But, their works of mercy are tainted because included with them is tacit approval of such things as abortion and birth control (which basically enables promiscuity, which in turn ultimately leads to more abortions). Killing the unborn does not solve any problems. Giving more birth control pills to young girls does not help anyone. Jesus loving Catholics should know that Jesus built his church on Peter and gave the apostles and their successors binding authority on earth. The successors have spoken. Now it is our task to follow. These sisters are off track and need to be brought back. It’s also intersting to note, by the way, that the churches which have embraced the liberal attitudes these sisters have espoused, are the ones with a declining following - THEY are the ones becoming irrelevant. Conservative churches, of various denominations, are the ones that are growing.
Tod, these women are far from being “Jesus loving.” I’m not even sure they spend much of their time performing the Corporal Works of Mercy. Instead, they are too busy protesting, giving speeches and interviews, writing books, going to conference after conference and leading others away from the Truth.
@Joanp62: Right ON with your comments. People like “Kath” always love dragging out “Let he who is without sin cast the first stone” in order to silence people. We can certainly identify and judge “sin”—as opposed to judging someone’s salvation. Even as adults, many Catholics still have a Catholic grammar school view of how the gospel is applied to our lives. For some people, loving kindness is the correct approach. Yet, for others, a more stern and direct confrontation is required to free someone from their blindness. The idea of a blanket “Kumbaya” as a one-size-fits-all is contrary to the gospel. When we examine the gospel closely, we see that Jesus handled each encounter with people at a personal level. His encounter with the Samaritan woman at the well was different than, say, of the rich young man. Jesus dealt with Caiphas and most all Pharisees differently than He did with Nicodemus. Christ’s message when speaking before various crowds had general application. When He spoke to people one-to-one, his comments were more personal and direct. As we also encounter people, we need to meet them where they live. Love, compassion or kindess may be all that is required for some while others may very well need to see their disobedience and how far they have strayed from God’s word. People who continually comment like “Kath” have not developed any Christian maturity regarding how the gospel is to be applied. “Ye shall know them by their fruit” means we CAN judge sin without making any judgment regarding the ultimate salvation of another person.
tod,
You should look at the Spiritual Works of Mercy, which go hand-in-hand with the Corporal Works of Mercy. They don’t contradict each other. And those issues these sisters are silent on violate the spiritual works of mercy because the Church is first and foremost interested in the state of your soul. It’s main purpose is slavation of your soul.
Trust firmly in the Lord and do His will. And you will dwell secure in the land of promise. (Midday Prayer - Divine Office)
New Observer, well stated, my sentiments exactly.
Sorry Sister,when the roll is called, you will be standing with the goats. So sad to trade in your white garment, so that you can stay in the gray areas.
To be pro-fetus is to be pro-new-life-new-soul. I think this is God’s view. We should be most concerned with doing what God desires.
When the bus tour is referred to as a stunt no more information is needed.
Dear Sister Pat: You are protesting against the legitimate teaching authority established by Jesus Christ. Your are a Protestant in spirit, just not in name. Why not become one if you believe the Catholic Church teaches error? Shouldn’t you be a member of a Church that is teaching what you believe to be the truth (e.g., the Episcopalians)? Either way you lack integrity.
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Also, truth is not determined by majority vote, and I’m gladdened by the fact that the Church teaches the truth and does not bow to societal pressure.
We need nuns who actually defend Christian teaching, instead of defending promiscuity, homosexual acts, and whatever else Hollywood defends.
JoAnna and Nick,
Well said!
This is also a problem of Political Party Loyalty and how they are allowing the Democrat party to shape their moral convictions. They have in-turn allowed the Democratic Party to shape their identity. Allegiance to Democrat Party or the Catholic Church: Which one sisters???? They have, in essence, crowned the Democrat Party as the gate-keepers of Christianity, and not the Catholic Church. In their minds, the possibility does not exist for one to be truly Christian outside of the Democrat Party. It seems like this is what happened under King Henry VIII.
Sisters, is it going to be Obama and the Democrat Party or Pope Benedict and the Catholic Church? Can’t be both!!!! Choose wisely….Any Thomas More’s in the Democrat Party and LCWR? If so, please stand up!!!
These sisters, like so many other Catholics, have a misplaced sense of compassion. They love the poor people so much, they have convinced themselves that it’s OK to kill their children in the wombs to “help” them. Also, giving birth control pills to young girls “helps” them. I guess preaching abstinence and waiting for marriage isn’t good enough any more. Teaching people to take responsibility for the lives they create from a few moments pleasure also just doesn’t work any more. So, according to them, God’s way doesn’t work and THEY know more than the RC Church. God help them.
@New Yorker: Paul identifies these liberal, feminist nuns in 1 Timothy 4:1 “Now the Spirit expressly says that in later times some will depart from the faith by devoting themselves to deceitful spirits and teachings of demons . . . ” They are under deception, a form of witchcraft without realizing it. So too is liberal feminism which desires to subvert the role of men while elevating themselves through sinful and prideful self.
New Yorker,
Great post!!!
New Observer,
“So too is liberal feminism which desires to subvert the role of men while elevating themselves through sinful and prideful self.”
Yes! And I’ll add that they are in a class all by themselves because liberal feminists hate men AND they hate women - at least that part that makes them women: their fertility. They want to be like men - because they feel they are “enslaved” in their femininity, their fertility. Their fertility is the only thing getting in the way of them being like men. And yet they hate men and feel they are superior to them. So, where do we put them? God only knows. But, any movement that is rooted in hate and envy can’t be from God - and certainly not Christian. They reject God’s creation of woman. It’s as if they are telling God that He messed up when He created woman.
“They want to be like men - because they feel they are “enslaved” in their femininity, their fertility.”
To put it succinctly, and in the vernacular, feminists wish to cut off mens’ balls because they have none. Sorry.
Excellent posts by both New Yorker and New Observer! Also from so many others. The posts on this article, in general, have been very interesting and informative. Thanks everyone.
IT would seem woman are not bright enough to read the documents of the Church.
John Madison,
“To put it succinctly, and in the vernacular, feminists wish to cut off mens’ balls because they have none.”
Patron Saint of liberal feminists: “St. Loraina (Bobbit)”
As a lay person who has recovered from the brainwashing of society after forty years and come home to my Church Like a prodigal daughter I can give her the flipside of living the life she espouses. I can tell her the truth about divorce. It doesn’t end with the paper from the court. I can tell her the dangers of contraceptives I have forty years of medical experience with that. I didn’t Thank You Lord sink as far as abortion I don’t think I could have forgiven myself for that. She is welcome to e-mail me so I can fill her in on these from the point of view of someone with practical experience instead of untried theories.
After recovering from the feminist movement. I realize the Church was right and I was wrong.Now I see nothing wrong with the heirarchy of the Church. If anyone cannot live with the beliefs of our Church I would suggest joining the Episcopalian church not only can you marry your same sex partner they will have a funeral for your pet too. We would be better off with a stronger core of true believers and when you come back to the Church’s teachings we will be here waiting. Question since the head of the Catholic Church is Jesus Christ does she plan on replacing Him too?
Does the old saying, “give them enough rope and they’ll hang themselves” ring a bell? These gals just don’t get it, at all and sadly I don’t think they ever will. Why, because it’s all about them and their ego’s. It hasn’t been about Church teachings or their vows for years.
I’ll be thrilled when they have enough sense to just leave the Church and stop be a distraction for those of us who want to be part of the Church and who don’t mind making sacrifices as called for to reach our heavenly goal.
Comments so far focus on Sr. Pat, the LCWR, and/or the interview. I submit that a healthy discussion of the CDF is also required to understand the issues at hand. Start with The Truth. By Truth, I mean Revealed Truth (the Whole being beyond human reach). The Church is the expositor of The Truth and expresses it as best as it can in written documents, of which there are so many that no one person knows it all. In fact there have been a few times that parts (such as canon law) have been rewritten to resolve inconsistencies (among various written texts) and clarify the meaning. The CDF is responsible for the authoritative interpretation of this body of Truth, expressed or not.
The underlying meaning of Truth does not change, but the CDF strives to express it in more meaningful ways to the modern mind. This is not molding the Truth to fit the contemporary world, but rather bringing better insights and practices to inform humankind in their lives. At least this is what they are supposed to do.
The CDF is an office of about 25 people. The head is usually a Cardinal close to the Pope.
Their mission is to convey Truth by Church Teaching, primarily through the world’s priests. The CDF also checks whether Church Teachings are properly followed throughout the Catholic World though various organizations such as Opus Dei who act as eyes and ears of CDF. Any infraction of the rules is reported to the CDF. These range from intinction to having a female Eucharistic minister when a male is available. (Bishops are also theoretically in this role, but usually handle lesser problems locally.) The CDF has investigative authority as well, and having gathered information about a complaint, issues an assessment, and imposes remedial action, including detachment. Thus the CDF is in charge of canon law, looks for infractions, prosecutes the defendant, metes out the sentence, and carries out the sentence. In the secular world, this would be a colossal conflict of interest. Given this level of power, who in the Catholic World would challenge it?
Consider The Truth as a coherent body of Truths, based on Scripture, Tradition, and modern idioms that interpret and clarify all to the contemporary faithful. Each statement of Truth has a component in each sector to a degree intrinsic to the statement. Thus the statement “Holy Orders is reserved to males” is primarily Tradition, in the model of the priest representing Christ when receiving the Eucharist, but also specified in Leviticus.
The traditional argument holds that women could not represent Jesus because He was male. A modern interpretation is largely missing, other than inertia, and fear - not theology.
I would urge a reorganization of the CDF to make it more focused on Teaching and split the other functions among the bishops. I’d like to see the Church become larger and more respectful of women’s aspirations and more welcoming to those who share the beauty of the faith and litergies. Where respect and search for truth replaces surveillance in matters of conscience. I would not like to see a smaller, exclusive Catholic Church when it is so badly needed in the world.
Well I’m a reasonably knowledgeable, faithful Catholic, comfortable in my own skin. And I think women should be ordained.
To truly love, as God loves, is to offer His Truth to others, and to ‘be the compassion of Christ’. Anything less is deception. The Truth is often not ‘comfortable’ to those who want what they are doing to be the right thing, since we naturally want to be ‘good’. To enable others to live in this lie is dangerous to their salvation, but much more so to the salvation of those who should and/or do know better. Jesus Christ, and all the prophets before him were persecuted for standing up for God’s Truth. Perhaps these ‘leaders’ are more concerned with human praise than God’s. It is not Love to kowingly decieve. That is the work of the enemy. It greatly saddens me that such people represent the Catholic Faith to the general population.
I am appalled by some of the comments here that are so utterly lacking in charity: “feminists wish to cut off mens’ balls because they have none”, “heretic is as heretic does .... enjoy the eternal heat worldly sisters!!”, “These two ladies need he strongest medicine we can offer: excommunication”. Where does such hate come from? Even if you disagree with the Sisters, nothing can justify such intemperate outbursts.
Let’s pray for the LCWR to humbly accept Catholic teaching.
It makes no sense to stay nominally within the Catholic Church if you are not a Catholic.
Those who disagree with Catholic teaching should simply become Episcopalian.
@nick: The Church is not a club where some members get to vote others off the island. Every Catholic is a Catholic by the dignity of our baptism, and is a part of the Church. Disagreements in a church of one billion people should be expected. When there were only 12 Apostles, there were disagreements.
@Tony
There maybe disagreement on pastoral concerns, but disagreement on the core Faith is unacceptable, specially for people on positions of authority (such as a religious major superior).
God said “the Truth shall set you free”, not “Your subjective opinion shall set you free”
And the Bible itself speaks of anathemas.
The point is clear: the Episcopalian “church” already exists. There is no point in trying to turn the Catholic Church into the Episcopalian “church”.
The Church has had serious disagreement within the ranks since the Council of Jerusalem in 49CE. Many of our most famous saints had bitter enemies inside the Church (think Thomas Aquinas). That said, I find it bewildering that sisters were be mum on the abortion issue. That’s a stand that was firmly in place well before the Incarnation. If a nun cannot condemn infanticide, they really should look elsewhere for vocation.
There’s another “elephant in the room.” The average age of a member of the LCWR is 74. Many of the orders have no young members and no one wanting to be. The contemplative orders are in much better shape. I think that the LCWR is proving again (as if we need more proof) that when religious people think of their role in terms of working against material need, others think you don’t need any religion to do that. Many of the “mainline” Protestant denominations committed suicide by making peace with the secular world on its own terms. The LCWR is doing the same. The Vatican wants to restore discipline and focus. It also wants the female orders to survive into the next generation. If LCWR doesn’t change, it won’t exist - soon.
As a recovering feminist I can see the damage that view has done to society. Men it is not only the objetification of women that is the problem. The flip-side of that is the disposable man. In others words She says “I’m tired of your BS get out and throws your dirty laundry after you” In about 15 minutes it dawns on you that you don’t have anyplace to sleep because that was her apartment. Both sexes have lost dignity and they don’t even know it. They think they have freedom all the have is a lack of commitment. Some will never learn to commit and some will have a painful journey towards it. I realized I would never have the relationship I saw in adults during my youth after my third failed “marriage”. We owe this generation a warning they are going down a road and the bridge is out.
@Eric. Declining vocations is a not a problem unique to female religious orders, and I suspect that “putting a man in charge” is not likely to offer much encouragement to women young or old. There’s something very inconsistent about Catholic teaching over the last half-century. There was a genuine interest in social justice issues after Vatican II, when many of today’s Sisters joined their Orders. They did exactly what they were encouraged to do: minister to the sick, the underprivileged, the poor, the oppressed (and let’s not forget that women tend to be overrepresented in many of those groups). They did their work as they were asked, and they did it with enthusiasm. Now, in their old age, they’re being blamed for doing those things, and told to cut back on social justice and focus instead on issues surrounding sex (abortion, contraception, gay marriage) as priorities. I also suspect that many Catholics are just as confused by the changes in priorities as are the Sisters.
@Tony
Oh please, you know that simply is not true. The problem with the LCWR is denying essential Catholic Faith, such as the centrality of the Eucharist and the sanctity of the conjugal act. See for example the book “Just love” by LCWR nun Margaret Farley.
No one is asking them to “spend less time helping the poor”. This is a bald-faced lie.
The Holy See only asks them to live the Catholic Faith (including the Eucharist) and to start caring about human life and family values.
@Nancy Janzen: You’ve touched on an area that seems overlooked by most. True freedom is only found in submission. Whether it’s a feminst nun or female laity, the problem women often have with male authority is one of submission. Women who are repelled by submission typically have experienced dominating men in their own fathers, boyfriends, husbands or employers (or a combination of these). We can forgive secular women who do not know the gospel. In the case of these nuns, they either reject the gospel, have selected understanding of the gospel or have never been taught the gospel. Indeed, since Catholic priests have no experience in marriage themselves, they are ill prepared and thus unable to speak on their own submission as husband to the wife and wife to the husband under the umbrella and authority of Christ. The wife has control over the husband’s body and likewise the husband over the wife. When is the last time a Sunday homily was given on this topic in your parish? These nuns (even if they are 80 years old) have never yielded in full submission. They fail to understand they are not called to yield or submit to a pope, but moreover that of Christ Himself. Institutionally, they must obey church direction, but submission is not to men—but to Christ. Joseph had this same problem when he was sold into Egyptian slavery. His father (Jacob) had trained and instructed him well. Joseph knew the Lord God of his father, Jacob. Thus it was easy for Joseph to adapt to the authority of Pharaoh, but his submission was always to Yahweh. I sense these nuns have never been taught true submission. Likewise, unbelieving women who do not know Christ think submission to their husband is domination or female slavery. This is why Paul warns believing men and women from becoming unequally yoked because the non-believer will bring a pagan obstacle into the marriage of one partner submitted to Christ while the other is not. It is no wonder problems will eventually surface in the marriage. The problem with the church is that the full treasury of Paul’s letters of understanding and wisdom have been left on the shelf. Mandatory celibacy for clergy (which is an unnatural element in the human experience) present a problem in that church leadership are unable to lead rightly in teaching and wisdom concerning this area of the faith as God intends. They speak much regarding being married to the church as the “bride of Christ” but are unable to translate or make purposeful application into the everyday lives of parishioners struggling in a marriage or for those singles seeking a godly marriage partner. Paul’s letters of encouragement remain neglected or omitted due to ignorance of the skills set required to teach. They are brilliant with Canon Law but can only hypothesize about interpersonal and spiritual relations between married couples. The great wisdom of the church saw the enormous value and spiritual grace to include Paul’s letters when they assembled the books of the Bible. It is somewhat ironic that after 12 centuries when marriage was denied to priestly men that the writings of Paul were moved to the back of the bus. It’s actually a shame since Paul’s writings detail so much for how the believer is to live and understand the gospel.
I always hear “many Catholics” when it comes from those supporting liberal causes and wanting the Church to follow. Remember the RCC will never vote on matters of faith and morals. It is NOT a democratic institution. If that is what you desire in a church it already exists in multiple forms. And they are splitting from each other over these same items. Try reading the Christian Post for a week. You hear the same fight being waged there over the souls of their churches. I have learned painfully that the Church was right and I was wrong. All I try to do is save people from following the path I did. Morality never changes. The Church never changes. It is a lighthouse to steer us to a safe harbor. Appreciate it. I do now.
eric I am not the least bit confused by the Church’e position since it hasn’t changed since St Peter. Nobody is saying the sisters are wrong because they served the poor. But that is and always has been a function of the Church not just since Vatican II. But I think you are confused about what the Church’s first mission is which is to spread the Word to the people of the world. The Word they are to spread doesn’t change. Or as one priest I heard say it when someone asked him not to say something from a bible quote. “I didn’t write it,I can’t change it.” As far as women being ordained I think most people arguing for that do not understand the position of a priest or bishop. It is not like secular offices. They are ordained as priests and installed as bishops not to rule but to serve. I think you need to take a walk with Jesus through the catechism. It will open your eyes to what we truely believe. I warn you in advance it takes 26 paragraphs to explain the word catholic in the Niacene Creed.
This topic strand is still going around, and I am very interested, and hopeful that the LCWR sisters will respond to the magisterium’s request with faithful obedience and meekness. No one is putting down their wonderful contributions over the years, but I must say, I was shocked when I read their 2012 conference website and saw that the keynote speaker was a flaky New-ager - Sisters, can’t you do better than that? Really, our Catholic heritage is so rich, so deep - why swim in the tepid, murky waters of postmodernism?
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Can someone answer my question - I real all the time that ‘80% of Catholic nuns are in the LCWR’, but is that an opt-in by all sisters, or is the statistic just including all members of orders in which the leaders join the LCWR? I ask because I have a hard time believing that the wonderful SSND sisters I know of would adhere to the empty, thin philosophy espoused by Margaret Farley et al. The sisters I knew were faithful and definitely Pro-Life! Please, can someone answer my question about membership?
There have been relatively few women over the past thirty years or so who have chosen to enter Sister Pat’s religious community and others who belong to the LCWR. Instead, they choose orders who belong to the CMSWR that are faithful to the Magisterium and who wear the habit, not street clothes. These include communities such as the Nasville Dominicans, Sisters of the Incarnate Word, Carmelites of the Most Sacred Heart of L.A., Sisters of Life and many others. Most oung women (including my daughters) are not looking to join commities who proclaim that their opinions and feelings are as valid as the teachings of the Magisterium and who want to blend in with society in their appearance. The facts speak for themselves.
For the person who asked about the figure of 80% of “nuns” being members of LCWR. I don’t think any nuns (cloistered,contemplative orders) are members. I take the figure of 80% with the same amount of belief I take the 98% of Catholic women who supposedly take contraceptives. Just by looking around my church on Sunday I have come to one of two conclusions either contraceptives have an extremely high fail rate or 2% of Catholic women are very busy. Also very generous because they must be giving away children.
Nancy, good comments…
Sadly, as I was channel-surfing last night on an oppressively humid night, I came upon MSNBC, the Ed show, or something like that. ‘Nuns on the Bus’ Sister (Mary Magdalene) Campbell was on, and it was an appalling, excruciatingly turgid segment. She is openly taunting Mitt Romney, ‘inviting’ him onto her bus to ‘meet poor people’. What an astounding, overtly political stunt! Why isn’t she ‘inviting’ BO to explain his love of abortion, or his ‘flip-flop’ on marriage? Huh, Sister??? Why doesn’t the good sister ask BO for his travel records, school admissions info, or college/law school papers?
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I am appalled anew at this group of renegade ‘sisters’. Who is funding their apostate ministry on the bus? Sister Campbell was dressed in street clothes, and didn’t even have a cross on, but rather a piece of jewelry around her neck. Heaven help her.
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These sisters need fervent prayer. I think they are kidnapped or something - I wondered if Rachel Madow was holding a gun against sister’s head last night. This situation is so sad - they are held captive to a tortured version of ‘social justice’ that enables continued abuse of the poor through misguided and crippling entitlements, and through blatant, coercive attempts to sterilize/abort their young.
P.S. About the ‘Ed Show’ - What kind of man is a liberal, I ask? Women, I can see, but what real man can espouse these obsequious views???
To Eileen and others take heart. I am a revert. One who willingly walked away from my faith because I didn’t want to live by the rules of my church on divorce and remarriage. It took a long time 40 years for me to come to my senses and return to the church. It took two more years for me to get over my shame and make a good and complete confession. Keep praying for the CINO’s. They aren’t completely lost just very confused. Your continual prayers and willingness to accept them when they wake up is necessary. When they finally wake up they will beat themselves up mentally more than you ever could for their stupidity. They will need us to tell them they aren’t as bad as they think they are which believe me will be much worse than you can imagine. When the devil comes into your life he doesn’t come with his horns and tail showing. It all sounds good wrapped in pretty paper of equality and freedom. I’ve learned to look under the wrapping. Let us pray that they do too.
Awesome story Nancy Janzen - so like my very own “way back home” after a failed marriage & 40 years away from the church. Hope you are as happy as I am in finding the truth.
I am Mary I now have a personal and daily relationship with Our Father in a way I never did before. I pray daily that Jesus’ takes me by the hand to lead me so I don’t get lost again and gives me the strength to follow where He leads. I realize I closed the door to Him when I needed Him most. A mistake I don’t plan on repeating. So i pray for those who have made that same mistake. We need to keep the door open to them while not compromising the beliefs.
It’s unfortunate that the National Catholic Register through it’s editorial section promotes a culture of fear when it comes to dialogue and discussion about what it means to be Catholic.
I affirm the work of the LCWR and their commitment to find the presence of Christ in the realities of today, even when it means being questioned and critiqued by their fellow religious and by lay Catholics.
The National Catholic Register promotes faithful Catholicism.
Let’s pray for the LCWR to accept being faithful to the Holy See.
I also affirm the good reporting and faithful witness of the Register. There is nothing wrong, and everything right, about the investigation of the LCWR by the Vatican. I trust it is being done fairly and in charity, and boy, do those sisters need correction.
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As a faithful ‘revert’ like Nancy and Mary in these posts, we women need to speak up, to retake and remake the narrative of women’s role in the Church and in society. Obama and Pelosi and Sebelius DO NOT speak for me and my daughter in matters of life, health, fertility, marriage and SO MANY other issues. Sisters, repent! Stop shilling for the debauched Democrats - your blatantly political yammerings recently are reason enough for you to be corrected by the magisterium. Write up a ‘voters’ guide’ if you like, on your tired old ‘60’s ‘social justice’ points, but do not give sincere and faithful Catholics any ‘cover’ to vote for the decrepit Democrats today - this is the party of death and moral relativism, not life and love.
“culture of fear” Excuse me, I have not felt any fear in expressing my opinions in the Register. Believe me if I felt a culture of fear I would never have told my story here. Many Catholic women who came to maturity in the 60’s have woken up from that nightmare. We are now speaking out about the truth of what that lifestyle did to us. If you want to hear us speak I suggest The Catholic View for Women. You will hear three women speak what we have learned. There is a new season starting on EWTN in September. It takes a great deal of courage to admit you were wrong for forty years and come back to the Church. It took a lot of help from other Christians who have also walked those dark paths. It takes support from my non-denominational biker group to keep me on track. There is no culture of fear in Christianity. It takes courage to live as a Christian.
To Allen Glenn re: “It’s unfortunate that the National Catholic Register through it’s editorial section promotes a culture of fear when it comes to dialogue and discussion about what it means to be Catholic.”
Oh, please!!
To Allen Glenn: REALLY!! You sound like those progressive Catholics that do not even believe in HELL. Well you had better wake-up real quick cause it does exist & if it takes “fear” so be it cause it does exist and I sure am not wanting to end up there no matter what you liberals think is going to happen with an all “loving” God. Remember He is also a JUST God.
Allen I don’t know how you grew up but I am a cradle Catholic who grew up in the Catholic Church and parochial school system. Now I went wrong all by myself but “fear” the Church. Not possible that would be like fearing my childhood home or my grandmother. My fondest memory was the night of Confirmation practice when we got out the Msgr’s dog had gotten loose. So here were all these children, many nuns and three priests going aroud the neighborhood yelling “Here susu” The Church, the nuns and the priests were family. I could never fear my Church nor was I ever taught that God was unforgiving. The one who couldn’t forgive my actions was me not God. I had to forgive myself so I could ask for His forgiveness. Look into the eyes of any picture of the Divine Mercy and tell me you could be afraid.
A beautifully written article that takes no prisoners. Perfect. And, it is important that this article was written by a woman, and an important woman at that.
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