While Patrick Owens, a Latin instructor at Wyoming Catholic College, climbed to the summit of East Temple Peak last fall with a group of his students, not a word of English was spoken. The hike was sponsored as part of the college’s Latin-immersion program.
Standing near the summit, Owens recalled, “It suddenly hit me that we were surveying the grandeur of God and speaking Latin.”
This emphasis on Latin at the six-year-old Wyoming Catholic, where students read and discuss classical and Christian authors entirely in Latin, appears to be one indication of an emerging trend: an upswing of interest in Latin among Catholics. But it is far from being the only sign.
For the first time an audio recording of the New Testament read entirely in Latin is available from a nonprofit called Faith Comes By Hearing. It was recorded by Father Peter Stravinskas, president of the St. Gregory Foundation for Latin Liturgy.
“Everywhere, elements of Latin are introduced into the standard vernacular Mass — the Gloria, the Sanctus or the Paternoster — there is a groundswell of interest in Latin, especially among younger Catholics,” Father Stravinskas said.
J. G. Halisky, secretary of a group called Familia Sancti Hieronymi — a society named after St. Jerome, who translated the Bible into Latin, creating the Vulgate — notices an uptick in interest. The organization is dedicated to spreading the use of Latin among the laity. It holds retreats that are conducted completely in Latin.
Today, instruction in spoken Latin departs from the dry course of studies followed by previous generations that had too many sullen Latin students reciting the ditty about how Latin “killed the ancient Romans, and now it’s killing me.”
Nancy Llewellyn, the architect of the program at Wyoming Catholic College, designed a course that employs techniques similar to those used in modern language classes. Students start speaking only in Latin on the first day.
“When we treat Latin as a dead language to be dissected,” Owens said, “we make a mockery of our linguistic patrimony as Catholics.”
Owens speaks Latin at home with his wife and children.
Crucial for Catholics
While the revival of Latin may be welcome on purely academic terms, the language has special meaning for Catholics. “Latin per se didn’t attract me, but it was Latin as the language of the Church that drew me,” said Halisky, a lawyer, who speaks Latin fluently.
Llewellyn is convinced that the renewal of Latin is crucial for Catholics. “It’s essential for the strength of Catholic identity to get our Latin heritage back,” said Llewellyn.
“We are attempting a revival of Latin,” Owens said, “not a revival with cobwebs, but a revival of our language, the Church’s language, as a living language. How better can we show that we love the Church than to learn her language?”
Llewellyn and Owens both studied spoken Latin in Rome. As a college student, Owens spent his summers studying in Rome with Father Reginald Foster, a Discalced Carmelite and now retired from serving many years as papal Latinist. Father Foster was once responsible for the Latin in documents coming from the Vatican. He was also a staunch advocate of spoken Latin. “I am part of an unbroken chain,” Owens likes to say.
Llewellyn, a graduate of Bryn Mawr College who holds a doctorate in classics from UCLA, has a Licenza in Christian and Classical Letters from the Pontifical Salesian University in Rome.
When Wyoming Catholic College was being established, those involved got in touch with Llewellyn.
“The main reason I took this job was that I learned to my joy and astonishment that they wanted an active Latin approach. I knew this was the place for me because we were on the same page,” she said.
All Wyoming Catholic College students take at least two years of Latin, but advanced courses — conducted only in Latin — are also available. Students are invited to defend their senior thesis in Latin. Those in the more advanced classes are accustomed to writing papers on the works of such Catholic theologians as Thomas Aquinas or the patristic writers entirely in Latin.
Reading a work in the original Latin rather than in translation can have a powerful effect, Owens said. “Our students sometimes end up falling in love with authors they thought they hated and hating authors they thought they loved,” Owens said with a chuckle. The college teaches the works of both classical and Christian writers.
Letter From Cardinal Burke
One of the most popular exercises for his sophomores, Owens said, is writing letters in Latin to bishops. “Cardinal [Raymond] Burke, along with several other bishops, recently responded to letters, which individual sophomores wrote in Latin,” Owens said. “Cardinal Burke replied in his own hand with beautiful Latin.”
To promote spoken Latin, there is always a Latin table in the cafeteria. Owens said it fills rapidly. Each semester features a Latin-immersion weekend, when students leave their dorms and sleep in the church basement, where they play games and participate in other activities entirely in Latin.
“It’s amazing how many people say Vatican II got rid of Latin and that is not true. It is still the official language of the Church and is used in pontifical documents of many kinds,” Llewellyn noted.
She added that in the early days of the Second Vatican Council, which authorized the Mass in the vernacular, Pope John XXIII issued Veterum Sapientia, a ringing endorsement of the use of Latin in the Catholic Church.
Llewellyn is founder of Salvi, which promotes spoken Latin. Salvi sponsors Rusticatio, a week of workshops at Claymont Mansion, a historic house in Charles Town, W. Va. No English is spoken during the week.
When Father Stravinskas originally approached Faith Comes By Hearing about doing a New Testament in Latin, he received an email saying that the organization only produced recordings of the Bible in living languages.
The priest shot back with his own email: “I said Latin is a living language for 2.2 billion Catholics,” he recalled.
Father Stravinskas used the Neo-Vulgate, the Church’s official Latin version, and enlisted a team of 15 Latin speakers to help. The recording was done much like the Holy Week readings of the Passion. Wherever canticles appear in the New Testament, they are chanted and there is monastic music between books of the Bible.
The priest said there is anecdotal evidence that interest in Latin is not restricted to college campuses. Father Stravinskas recently visited a Catholic elementary school. “I coincidentally walked into a second grade Latin class,” he said. “I said to this little fellow, ‘Quid agis?’ And he replied immediately, ‘Bene.’” A second child answered, “Optime,” but a third, who apparently was having a bad day, replied “Pessime.”
Ironically, the introduction of the new Roman Missal in English may end up contributing to a revival of interest in Latin, said Father Nicholas Grigoris, editor of the Catholic Response magazine and another advocate of Latin.
“It’s evident from this new translation,” said Father Nicholas Grigoris, “that the Church regards Latin as normative. The new English translation is going to help people realize how important Latin is. If Latin is not important, why would we go back to the Latin to retranslate it?”
Register correspondent Charlotte Hays writes from Washington.
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Count me as one of the younger generation who has fallen in love with Latin. I took Latin in a public high school because a foreign language was required, and I wanted to do something different. Our school was one of the only ones in the district that offered Latin, as it turns out, and the program was closed shortly after I graduated, so I was quite lucky. Latin also was instrumental in my study of Spanish when I went to college.
I get really excited when anything at mass is done in Latin, and I can thank Latin (along with anglican choral music of all things) for leading me to a more traditional understanding of the Mass and the Church as a whole. I would sit in Latin class and ask myself, “why don’t we say Mass in Latin anymore?”
Latin (and the culture of the Church) also satisfied a desire I had in me since my childhood. In school we would always talk glowingly of other cultures (except of course for the evil Spanish empire) and I always wondered what MY culture was. Now I know.
Bene fecisti, mi Patrici. Non solum Catholici Romani Latine sed etiam Calvinistae exempli gratia ego colloqui volunt. Loquentes Latine per orbem terrarum arte magnifica frui spero.
Our chosen homeschool curriculum offers Latin and Greek. I’m looking forward to learning alongside my children.
My teenage son desperately wants to learn Latin. Are there any good home courses that we can slog through until he goes to college? There isn’t any chance of him learning it here at school. I would do it with him, as I only know bits and pieces from Mass… but also would love to learn it myself.
I took two years of latin in high school. The one good it did me was to help me with my english. However, I have no interest in it whatever. I would suggest you could spend your more productively.
Heather,
Memoria Press offers Latina Christiana I & II on their web site. Those are pretty basic courses, actually aimed at elementary aged kids, but you’ve got to start somewhere, right?
I have both and will be starting my own Latin studies as soon as I can find time for doing so….
Good luck!
John
Omaha, NE
PS. If you’re interested in somewhat more conversational Latin, you might try Rosetta Stone. Two problems there: They don’t address liturgical Latin much at all and they’re..not inexpensive….. Memoria Press courses might be as little as $45 or so each, Rosetta Stone was more like $400.
Heather,
If you’re mostly interested in everyday, “conversational” Latin, you might look at Rosetta Stone software. Just be wary of the price.
If, however, you’re mostly interested in something more useful for Catholics, I recommend Latina Christiana I & II from Memoria Press. They’re pretty basic, but focus more on the Church’s Latin, only cost around $45 or so, and Memoria also offers follow-on high school age Latin courses.
Good Luck!
I was shocked when my sixth grader requested to be in the Latin Club, an after school activity! I was over the moon! Since he changed schools (from Catholic school to public school), he is no longer learning a romance language, but rather, is taking Chinese. Latin will help him tremendously in the future, when he does return to Spanish, or some other romance language. And, the assistance it will give him in learning English vocabulary will be tremendous. Heather, he is using Ecce Romani, a textbook used by the local Catholic high schools. (We bought it on Amazon). He loves it!
To Heather: Look for Rosetta Stone in Latin for your son. I got it for myself to learn, and my kids sometimes get on the computer and use it for fun.
Hi Heather!
I agree with everyone else, Rosetta Stone Latin is an excellent course for conversational Latin, except it doesn’t address liturgical Latin and it can be pricey. I am currently taking Rosetta Stone Latin, I really enjoy it and I’m learning a lot from it. I’ve found that a base in conversational Latin actually does help with learning liturgical Latin (we go to Latin Mass), even if the course isn’t geared towards liturgical Latin.
Latina Christiana I and II is also a good course. It is, of course, for younger kids, but it forms a good base for further Latin studies and language in general.
I took Henle’s Latin I (it’s offered by Memoria Press for older students) last year with my home school program. Although it was a good course, it is geared mainly for being taught with a class and it’s rather tough to study it on one’s own. It didn’t give much of a “living” feel to to language, and I didn’t enjoy it very much. However, it turns out that Memoria offers online classes in Latin for older students (memoriapress.com/onlineschool), that might be an option.
One of the things that really got me excited to learn Latin was sitting in on one of Nancy Llwellyn’s Latin classes at a campus visit to Wyoming Catholic College. I had been taking Henle’s Latin for about a year, and I had no idea that Latin could be so alive and fun, too! That class was also one of the reasons I decided to apply to WCC. I’ve been accepted as a member of the class of 2016, I can’t wait! :D
Good luck, Ma’am, and God bless!
~Nicole
My kids have been learning (and loving!) Latin at a homeschool enrichment I send them to. Just the other day, my 9 yo ran around the house looking for her lost History book exclaiming “Mea culpa! Oh, Mea culpa!” They have been using Latina Christiana, but are trying a new approach next semester - to have them translate beautiful poetry, prose, and song…and get the grammar in a more of a “back door” approach. We’ll see…I have been studying the works of St. Josemaria Escriva who uses Latin so often in his writing…I am falling in love with it myself! I certainly find it a good use of our time!
Heather, If you and your son want to learn Latin get on Amazon and get a copy of First Latin Lessons by Harry Fletcher Scott and Annabel Horn. It is an old textbook that has recently been reprinted (I bought an original, not the reprint). It is wonderful. Work at your own pace and memorize your endings. There is no answer key but you can teach yourself without it. The great thing about it is that it requires Latin composition which is the best way to thoroughly learn. It goes step by step. Good luck!
Ave Maria, llena de Gracia…
Faith Comes By Hearing states that they have a Latin recording but when you try to access it you will see that it is not available as a free download like the other 500+ languages are. If you want the Latin you must purchase a CD or a thumb drive or an electronic “proclaimer”.
I have taken many years of latin study and am an ardent Roman Catholic. However, when Latin is spoken of as a “dead language” it is not without proper cause. Latin is the official language of the Catholic Church, however it is not spoken by any homogeneous population or ethnicity nor established as the “spoken” language of any principality or country, not even Vatican City. I am curious as to whether the Latin which is spoken at the programs spoken of is “ecclesiastical” or “classical”. Ecclesiastical latin is the official language of the church and differs from classical pronunciation in many ways, inflections and spelling. Even the alphabets are different! So, “spoken latin”, usually classical, isnt even technically the language of the Catholic church in its spoken form. There is a reason the “J” sound is not heard in gregorian chant and that is because the letter doesnt exist in Ecclesiastical Latin, the official language of the Church. “V” sounds like “V” ect… the list goes on. Dont get me wrong, I applaud the rising interest in the great language of latin, however to attempt to speak it in a misguided sense that it is being in “closer union” to the Catholic Church to do so may be problematic. I wonder if anyone else has an opinion that is in anyway similar. I would be intrigued to read their comments!
A really easy beginning course in Latin is Getting Started Wtih Latin by William Kenney. I like it better than Latina Christiana. It is just a beginning book though. Latin for Children is a really fun course. I also like Lingua Latina by Hans Orberg.
My children went to a Catholic high school which uses the Cambridge Latin course. This is produced by Cambridge University in England and includes books and software. The focus is on reading, not conversation, and prepares students for AP Latin if they choose to do that. It is an excellent course.
If you look at their website, you’ll see that Cambridge Latin also supports homeschoolers and other independent learners of all ages. You might have to look around a bit on the website for ordering info for U.S. customers. Amazon carries their books, too.
Thank you all for the recommendations!! I truly appreciate them all… I will sift through these with my husband and we will choose something over the holidays. God bless you all and have a blessed and Holy Christmas octave~
I see that all the comments published speak enthusiastically about learning and using Latin. For those who are so inclined, God bless them. It causes me some concern, however, as to whether this trend contains a desire not mentioned here for a return to Latin Masses. I hope not. Like the overwhelming majority of American CathoIics, I would be very upset at a return to Latin Masses, since I don’t know Latin, and I have no desire to learn it.
I wish you would post this comment. As it presently stands this “blog” presents only one perspective, which is somewhat misleading, since the view it expounds is certainly shared only by a very small minority of American Catholics.
See my previous comment
@Bonnie: Like you, I noticed that the Latin version of the audio Bible was not available for download at the Faith Comes By Hearing website. But they do have a free app available for iPhone/iPad and Android smartphones. I downloaded that app to my iPad, and am currently enjoying the Gospel of Matthew as read - it’s quite beautiful, with chant between the books and different voices for the characters. Considering that the app and the audio were both free, it’s a very nice price for the many millions of people who already have smartphones!
Heather, I’d recommend Lingua Latina by Hans Oerberg. You’ll get your feet wet right away, but it starts easy - “Roma in Italia est” (with a map to help you). Get Cassell’s Latin Dictionary to help you along with the vocabulary. This is a non-textbook and the least dry way (besides learning from a Latin linguist) to learn.
@Stephen Stripp - It’s silly to think that just because the Mass might be in Latin that we could not understand it… that’s why our tradition is to have a Missal at Mass to follow along. Besides… Being a Catholic and not wanting to know ANY Latin, is like being an American and not wanting to learn ANY Spanish! It is our language and our heritage!!
If you want a church that is like the Catholic one, but isolated to English, I suggest the Anglican Communion… We’re not tied down to any one time, culture, or language. We transcend all languages and cultures and times. That’s what makes us Catholic!
Stephen Stripp, you must have strayed in here by accident. You are looking for the blogs of the “other” National Catholic newspaper. I am sure you will find salve for your concerns about one sided comments there.
Stephen,
I’ve heard that sort of comment many times; I find I must challenge the premise. I’ve been to Mass in 6 languages, but I only speak English. Even so, I can readily comprehend what’s going on during the Mass in other languages if I understand the structure and proceedings of the Mass in general.
So, I’m forced to ask: What’s your complaint with the Latin Mass?
I think it noteworthy that, in spite of tremendous resistance on the part of bishops to fully implement Summorum Pontificum, we see as much interest in Latin—and the Mass—as we do after only four years.
I think we’re seeing a growing trend of folks who aren’t so ecstatic about the “creativity” inspired by the Novus Ordo.
“Like the overwhelming majority of American Catholics, I would be very upset at a return to Latin Masses, since I don’t know Latin, and I have no desire to learn it.”
I don’t get it - would anyone be forcing you to attend a Latin mass?
There definitely is a trend…more and more Catholics are re-examining what has happened re: the Norvus Ordo, Latin, etc. I think it’s just silly to dislike Latin - it actually enriches the Mass…OK that may be IMO, but what gives me pause is how dumb we are considered to be. Are most of us so dense that we can’t learn a new language? Having one shared language for all would be AWESOME - I agree going to Mass in another language is fine, but how about one language that we all know and can pray in together?
Anyway, thanks for the great recommend on the Bible app, it is WONDERFUL, and my parents actually just downloaded it, too. Can’t wait to share it with my kids!
@Stephen Stripp: —No one is compelling attendance at a Latin Mass, Ordinary or Extraordinary Form.
—There is a reflection of the Church’s universality and continuity in a common language for liturgical celebration of Mass.
—Most anyone attending Mass in Latin can easily use a Latin/English or Latin/Spanish, etc. Mass book.
e.g. you can find a great Sunday Missal for the Extraordinary Form from Neumann Press here:
http://neumannpress.stores.yahoo.net/mysundaymissal.html
James Cardinal gibbons explained in The Faith of Our Fathers one of the benefits of the Church’s use of a dead language:
«The Catholic Church has always one and the same faith, the same form of public worship, the same spiritual government. As her doctrine and liturgy are unchangeable, she wishes that the language of her Liturgy should be fixed and uniform. Faith may be called the jewel, and language is the casket which contains it. So careful is the Church of preserving the jewel intact that she will not disturb even the casket in which it is set. Living tongues, unlike a dead language, are continually changing in words and meanings. The English language as written four centuries ago would be now almost as unintelligible to an English reader as the Latin tongue. In an old Bible published in the fourteenth century St. Paul calls himself the villain of Jesus Christ. The word villain in those days meant a servant, but the term would not be complimentary now to one even less holy than the Apostle. This is but one instance, out of many which I might adduce, to show the mutations which our language has undergone. But the Latin, being a dead language, is not liable to these changes.»
I wish I could get my hands on the New Testament audiobook read by Fr. Stravinskas, but the nonprofit Faith Comes from Hearing doesn’t seem to export internationally. Does anyone know of another way to get it?
The part of the article says that Vatican II said the revised Mass would be mostly in the vernacular is not accurate. According to Fr.Joe Fessio he told Raymond Arroyo that what Vatican II ACTUALLY called for was “small organic changes to the Tridentine Mass” in July 2005. Thus it NOT call for a brand newly created Mass the “Novus Ordo” which was the idea of a Bishop who many believed to be a Freemason. This Bishop said himself the idea was to create a Mass to appeal to Protestants and to “Strip It of All Things Catholic) Vatican II did NOT call for Mass facing the People, Communion in the Hand Eucharistic Ministers. Altar Girls and other novelties. Bishop Conferences did all these things on their own. NONE of these things were called for by Vatican II. People READ THE DOCUMENTS!
@joannie
Thats exactly the problem here; the documents!! They are incredibly vague in their language and purpose. The second vatican council was the FIRST COUNCIL in the approximately 2000 yr history of the Catholic Church that was NOT called in direct response to any particular immediate heresy or threat to a dogma/doctrine. We will never know exactly where Pope John XXIII would have directed the council, as he died soon after he called for it. The biggest issue with the council is that it had no strong guiding principle like all the preceding councils and that I imagine is one of the main causes of its vague and therefore potentially harmful nature. An ecumenical council does not take the place of Peter, “ex cathedra”, and therefore can be fallible, which has been the reason for the doubt of its worth now.
@ audman88
The issue of pronunciation is a red herring. In Germany, Austria and central and eastern Europe Latin is pronounced according to the rules governing German pronunciation. Until the 20th century the English pronunciation was used in Anglophone countries and still survives in legal and botanical Latin, and should be used for Latin words occurring in an English context. This made it pretty well incomprehensible to other Europeans, and so the universities imposed the ‘classical’ pronunciation, based on scholarly conjecture, shortly before the First World War. The Italian pronunciation was introduced to England by the Oratorians in the 19th century and later endorsed by Pius X. Church Latin always had the classical models to use as a yardstick, and the Latin of, say, a Vatican II document is more “classical” than the Vulgate of St Jerome. Its stability is a source of strength when vernacular languages are constantly evolving and an English phrase can aquire a completely different meaning when it crosses the Atlantic. As for Latin being a dead language, ponder this. Latin would have been spoken in southern Britain even before Julius Caesar set foot there in 55BC. In over two millennia not a single day has gone by when Latin has not been spoken somewhere in Britain.
OK I have to add a comment because I accidentally stopped myself from receiving comments - and I am learning so much! Joannie - a freemason and a Bishop? Isn’t that like an oxymoron? Oy, you can’t make these things up!
Have you read V II? It’s on my phone (on my ipieta app), but I I haven’t read it. I will make a resolution to take your advice and read it! I am not a regular at the Tridentine - I’ve been 2 times, and I believe my friends who say you really have to give it a good long time of going and experiencing to get the beauty of it…but I do believe that it is coming back more and more, and that this will be a joyful phenomenon.
audman88,
I’ve heard these arguments before and..well, I can’t even remotely agree with your premises. I understand that someone has set about to demonstrate how Vatican II wasn’t infallible; I think they’ve set themselves a very difficult job; it appears to be offered by the Pope to the whole world and address matters of faith and morals. Going to be pretty tough to demonstrate otherwise, I think. ...Especially considering that the documents are anything BUT vague. They’re pretty explicit about many things: Chant keeps pride of place, Latin remains the normative language, vernacular is an option for catechetical purposes, etc. If the ideas presented by the Council have been badly corrupted by many since, well, many traditionalist factions seem equally culpable. I think it quite unfortunate that many insist that the notions regarding religious freedom in particular have no merit. If they aren’t written as strictly as many would wish, I’d suggest that those who wish them written differently might contemplate them a little longer to better discern their meaning.
I will also contend that, if one reads the documents, at least one guiding light involved is, ironically, to address modernism. Many wish to reject that possibility, apparently because the Council Fathers didn’t address the issue quite way the that many would wish. Seems to me that too is cause for contemplation, maybe the Holy Spirit dared to try to tell us something.
I tend to think of Vatican II as being similar to the Constitutional Convention for the United States: The Framers original aim was to fix the Articles of Confederation, but they discerned they really needed to simply start from scratch. Many..didn’t like the Constitution at the beginning either.
In many ways, I think Vatican II aimed to confront modernism not by means of a new set of rules everyone needed to follow, which is more or less what Trent is alleged to have done, but rather by challenging every Catholic—and every other person, for that matter—to understand their faith as being more than just a bunch of rules you needed to follow, as though you’d been a Pharisaic Jew.
I think too many people insist that Vatican II was heretical in part because they don’t wish to be challenged to understand faith from more than one direction.
@Ioannes
Thanks for your insight. I do believe, however, that you do not truly mean that the pronunciation argument is truly a “red herring”; the argument may not be strong, but it is in no way off topic or unrelated to the discussion. I also understand that it is the stability of Classical latin that gives it its strength when, “vernacular languages are constantly evolving.” Doesnt your very argument set latin aside as being seperate from living, vernacular languages?? Why is it that latin alone is a living language, immune to the changes and development that every other spoken language undergoes? Here is something to ponder; Some say that it is the adaptability of a language, ie. its ability to change and morph with a culture that gives it its beauty. While, those who sing latin’s praise talk about its un-changing nature and its connection to beauty. I love latin, but if it is the inability of a language to change that makes it beautiful, wouldnt binary computer language be the most beautiful language??It never changes and serves a plethora of practical purposes. I am also a Mathematics major and I can see the beauty in scientifically constructed languages.
The Masonic bishop referred to is presumably Archbishop Annibale Bugnini who led the Consilium which produced the Novus Ordo Mass. Rumours that he was a Freemason have never been substantiated. I think that the reason he was suddenly dropped by Paul VI who had previously backed him was that the inculturation envisaged in Comme le Prevoit (1969) was leading to a situation where different language groups would create their own Mass texts, which would have been the final nail in the coffin of the Roman Rite. By the early 1970s Pope Paul was desperately trying to put the genie back in the bottle.
@John
I appreciate your insight on the issue. I completely agree with you in regards to any dogma(s) which have resulted from the council and were promulgated by the holy father, they are not to be disputed with respect to their authenticity or importance. However, that is not to say every element of the council is immune to human error. That aside, I will again grant that it would prove to be very difficult to persuade one of any potentially fallacious assertions from the council, and I believe that is more properly suited to a theologian with a much deeper understanding of The Catholic faith than I currently claim possession of. I agree that the Holy Spirit was indeed guiding the Holy Church, as has been the case for the past 2000 years. I take issue with the intention that seems to be presented in your argument. I believe it is in the very act of “discerning” what the council may or may not have intended that lies the problem. The irony is that in the places where the text of the council is clear, is where discrepancies have arisen. eg. SectionIII, A.22 ” Therefore no other person, even if he be a priest, may add, remove, or change anything in the liturgy on his own authority.” Chances are, anyone who has intended a Novus Ordo mass will remember after the consecration most priests will say “Let us proclaim the mystery of faith.” Vatican II saw fit to move the words “mysterium fidei” until after the major elevation. Have you heard many priests speak those words as they appear in the 1962 English Translation of the Missale Romanum, “Mystery of Faith”, by itself as printed? Sacrosanctum Concilium seems very clear what should be said, and yet it is not followed… The “Mystery of Faith” just happened!!! What is there to proclaim I wonder? I dont believe you would assert that the Council is infallible when adapting the “elements subject to change” in the liturgy, as the translation of the document refers to the non-immutable elements of the liturgy. I believe that discrepancies such as these have led to abuse in the liturgy an “open interpretations” that were never intended by the Council. That is where my issue is with some of the actions of the Council. The Catholic faith is a way of life. It is also guided by very specific rules and dogmas of the church which are not to be taken lightly.
audman88,
I tend to think there’s rather little need to be perplexed with regard to the Council’s intentions. I think the documents speak quite clearly.
I think it quite ironic (and sad) really: SSPX loathes the existence of certain tenets of the Council; “progressives” despise the existence of the traditional Mass. Each side adamantly blames the other, insists the Council was wrong, and proceeds to act precisely as they wish, regardless of what the Council fathers actually wrote.
We’ve had a serious problem in the Church ever since precisely because both sides refuse to repent from their errors.
If you guys want to hear the Latin from Faith Comes By Hearing, you can go to www.bible.is to listen to it (along with their 500+ languages)
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