VATICAN CITY — Following skepticism of the accuracy of a recent interview with Pope Francis, several sources have suggested that the printed text, while faithful overall to the Pope’s thought, may not have captured his exact words.
“Eugenio Scalfari did not tape his interview with Pope Francis, nor did he take notes, so the text was an after-the-fact reconstruction. Such texts run the risk of either missing some key details or conflating various moments or events recounted during the oral interview,” wrote Father Thomas Rosica, who helps the Vatican Press Office conduct its English-language business, on Oct. 5.
“Scalfari has stated that he showed the text to Francis for his approval, but it’s not clear how closely the Pope read it.”
Scalfari, the editor of the Italian publication La Repubblica and an atheist, conducted an interview with Pope Francis that was published Oct. 1.
On Oct. 3, staff at La Repubblica told Jean-Marie Guénois, deputy editor of the French daily Le Figaro, that “the interview was not recorded, nor were notes taken. What is reflected in the interview is fruit of the memory of that which the Pope and Scalfari said during their encounter.”
La Repubblica continued, saying that “the text, once completed by Scalfari and before its publication, was sent to Pope Francis, who approved it.”
One of the main points of skepticism surrounding the interview’s details is associated with the recounting of Pope Francis’ supposed “mystical experience” after his election as Pope.
The day after the interview was released, Vatican observer Andrea Tornielli wrote in La Stampa that, in an “attentive reading of the interview, there are particulars which don’t add up.” He said that his doubts were “consolidated” by what was related about the “circumstances of the election.”
The interview published in La Repubblica quoted Pope Francis as saying that, before he accepted his election, he left the Sistine Chapel for a moment to go to a small room off the balcony of St. Peter's, and there he had a mystical experience that left him with peace.
“It is known,” Tornielli wrote in response, “that there are no rooms next to the balcony overlooking the square. … This episode can be, in my opinion, an indicator of the fact that the published text of La Repubblica does not represent an exact, word-for-word reconstruction of the dialogue with Scalfari.”
Also on Oct. 2, Vatican spokesman Father Federico Lombardi told journalists that the “sense” of what Pope Francis said in Scalfari’s interview in La Repubblica was accurate, but would not confirm that each word was in fact spoken by the Pope.
Nonetheless, he said that if Pope Francis had been “gravely misrepresented,” he would have said so.
In fact, the text of the interview is currently posted on the Vatican‘s website, in Italian, Portuguese and Spanish, among the Pope’s speeches.
In his own statement, Father Rosica noted that Father Lombardi has “attested to the overall ‘trustworthiness’ of the Scalfari interview.”
And yet, he continued, “cardinals who witnessed the events have categorically stated that the newly elected Pope never left the Sistine Chapel for a period of reflection before finally accepting the papacy, other than his entering the ‘Room of Tears’ for vesting.”
“The so-called ‘mystical moment’ of Pope Francis is most probably referring to the moment of prayer in the Pauline Chapel,” Father Rosica said, referring to Pope Francis’ time of prayer before ascending to the balcony of St. Peter’s Square and after having accepted the Petrine office and greeting his brother cardinals.
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As a convert to the faith and a confirmation teacher I was shocked at three statements by the Pope in the La Repubblica interview:
That everyone should simply follow their own concepts of good and evil;
That preaching the word of God to nonbelievers is solemn nonsense;
That Jesus taught that the only way to salvation was the love of one’s neighbor. The fact is that these statements have been allowed to stand without correction or explanation by the Pope. This is not Christianity and the Pope, if he does not believe these things, should simply come out ant say so. Instead we get excuses from the Vatican and suggestions that there were translation problems.
It’s true that there was one God for all mankind. But our Bible said it this way: Lord, the God of Abraham, the God of Yitzak, the God of Ya’acov. The God of Israel. And legally we say it the God of the Cathocics.
Pope Francis’s statements about ‘no Catholic God’, neglected the fact that only in Chatolic teachings, traditions, and the life of the Catholic Church God’s identity being revealed rightly.
like being nice to homosexuals and not condemning their lifestyles,this will lead them to convert from their sinful ways????????????..then why hasn’t Pelosi,biden and sebelius and the rest of the gang from hell converted and follow Church teaching?????...spare the rod and spoil the child…hell is overflowing because of a lack of discipline
Nothing would so make me happier than if I could but just “accept” the words of this pope (whom I am convinced is a holy man) and as I have done with every pope in my lifetime (some seven plus decades).
But, his own word speaks of the our conscience as the highest authority and it is frighteningly described by him as “autonomous.” (Not connected to the Church?).
He further said what ever a man believed to be good is sufficient, thus belittling the entire teachings of the Catholic Church, Holy Scripture, the catechism, or exactly what is necessary to have a well-formed conscience—as if all consciences are correct-though contradictory (as in 44,000 odd Christian churches all in disagreement)
Christ is indeed love, but as he said to Pilate, “I came to bring the truth” (dogma is truth) He sent his apostles out to teach that truth and His church has zealously guarded and dispersed that truth through the centuries. The truth of the Gospels cannot be put on the back burner to attract people to Jesus without the whole man and God being part and parcel. It nears deceit to preach just loving God to attract converts only to show them the fine print later on-like faith is to be reduced to a common sales technique. Sign now, I’ll explain the fine print later?
One recalls Christ’s words to His apostles about wiping the dust of that house from your sandals and woe be to them for rejecting Me. (What if their autonomous consciences told them not to listen to the Gospels or the apostles?)
St Paul tells us to discern and admonish.
One cannot have Jesus as love and ignore or demean the absolute need to understand that with God-truth and love are one inseparable entity.
This pope has said that some previous popes were mentally ill(he defined narcissism as that) If a pope can undermine another pope (or point out their fallibility)and if conscience is the absolute GPS to God—why would one have to listen to this pope on matters of secular politics(unemployed youth is the biggest problem facing the Church)particularly when he speaks of admiration of Marxist teachers because they had honor.
I pray for clarity from this pope and grace to understand from the holy Spirit.
@ Don L:
Well put!
In Christ,
This Pope is a great man of God, a breath of fresh air. No doubt he causes concern to some but so did Christ. Truth, absolute Truth is the true expression of God. None of us other than God is absolute Truth, all of us must respectfully defer to greater authority. There is a good chance that The Pope elected by those in authority under the guidance of The Holy Spirit have picked a man capable of expressing that Truth better than most. God Bless the Pope and protect him Amen
Don L perhaps we shouldn’t strain to defend the words of our Pope, but rather accept them. Other church leaders have spent too much time telling people they don’t belong and aren’t welcome. This in itself may explain “...the radical loss of souls, the empty Churches, reduction in converts, the unused or abused sacraments….”
Just pause and think about the teachings of Pope Francis, that “our goal is not to proselytize but to listen to needs, desires and disappointments, despair, hope. We must restore hope to young people, help the old, be open to the future, spread love. Be poor among the poor. We need to include the excluded and preach peace.” Even if not perhaps exact quotes, these words and the sentiment they express are very much in line with the teachings of the Gospels and I am heartened to hear such compassion from His Holiness.
Don L,
I began to believe the same things about our Pope until I really sat down and listened to what he said. I am probably among the most conservative Catholics I know, but his message resonated with me. What Pope Francis is saying is exactly what the Catholic Church has always taught, what Christ himself taught. Above all things love. Are we going to convert homosexuals away from their sinful relationships by constantly reminding them? Or would we be better served by ministering to them in the Mass and out. Let the Church’s love for them be displayed during the Liturgy and in every action we take. They will begin to see the sinfulness of their actions and stop on their own. The Pope is not saying we should pander to their wants but we should focus on the root of their problem… Lack of love… Once we cure that, their other problems will be easier to resolve.
Don L, well said. I find it amazing how so many are scrambling to explain what the Pope said and meant.
Are we not beginning to strain to defend the words of this pope, even to the point of suggesting they might be other than his? His words now extend beyond one mere interview, and they show an established pattern. The pattern seems clear as to his thinking, and it is clearly causing distress and concern among the most faithful and giving many of the unfaithful and confused, joy in their self-centered creative interpretations of God’s Church and fair or not—in their sin. Justified or not—they are evideence of, at the least serious issues of clarity in communication, and raise questions as to why such teaching are being done in a well thought out encyclical—which cannot be tampered with or misunderstood.
His secular/political view of the two most pressing problems facing God’s Church (young peoples unemployment and old people loneliness) only serve to restore wonder about his Jesuit mindset, and memories of the Jesuit trumpeted Marxist Liberation Theology that spread havoc and disaster throughout the Church after Vatican II—a theology so corrupt that Pope John Paul II saw the need to stop it immediately as his first major act in Medellin Columbia. Fortunately, John Paul II made it clear in an encyclical of the evil of the Welfare State, which is always a violation of the Catholic moral principle of Subsidiarity, which Pope Francis cites as reason to devolve the Curia.
Unbelievably, the radical loss of souls, the empty Churches, reduction in converts, the unused or abused sacraments, and the seriously wayward clergy weren’t mentioned. Faithful Catholics must wonder just how far down his list of pressing issues they be.
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