I completely agree with you Jim. It’s unfortunate that people in the government care more about money and big government than the nation and the governing principles that this nation was founded on. Were repeating history all over again and falling fast. But I think the American people are waking up, with our strong faith hopefully its not too late. Thank you for the insights.
Raymond Gurries http://raymondgurries.wordpress.com

But the Church should push government to do more for its people.  The mention of the wall in Germany reminds me that we too have a wall that clearly discriminates against people we label as “illegal,” who contribute so much to our society and workforce.  The Church has asked us to defend their rights and is indeed asking the government to address their rights.
Brother Alan Parham, FSC

This article follows closely the Catholic Principle of Subsidiarity which has been pushed forward by the modern Popes. It basically states that the government should never do for people what they can do for themselves.

I couldn’t help but notice the irony in your citation. Einstein was a socialist.  Here’s a link to one of his famous articles on socialism and his reason for supporting it: http://www.monthlyreview.org/598einstein.php .
Still think you should listen to him?

Yes, yes, yes and yes again!  No wonder my stomach is giving me more trouble than usual, and would be much worse be it not for my love of my Faith….

This is quite an extreme comparison, the USA and East Germany, and ignores the fact that almost all other developed democratic countries have mixed systems including health care that function well for their populations.  I found Benedict’s critique of unbridled capitalism in paragraph 41 of Caritas in Veritate:  “The continuing hegemony of the binary model of market-plus-State has accustomed us to think only in terms of the private business leader of a capitalistic bent on the one hand, and the State director on the other. In reality, business has to be understood in an articulated way. There are a number of reasons, of a meta-economic kind, for saying this. Business activity has a human significance, prior to its professional one[98]. It is present in all work, understood as a personal action, an “actus personae”[99], which is why every worker should have the chance to make his contribution knowing that in some way “he is working ‘for himself’”[100]. With good reason, Paul VI taught that “everyone who works is a creator”[101]. It is in response to the needs and the dignity of the worker, as well as the needs of society, that there exist various types of business enterprise, over and above the simple distinction between “private” and “public”. Each of them requires and expresses a specific business capacity. In order to construct an economy that will soon be in a position to serve the national and global common good, it is appropriate to take account of this broader significance of business activity. It favours cross-fertilization between different types of business activity, with shifting of competences from the “non-profit” world to the “profit” world and vice versa, from the public world to that of civil society, from advanced economies to developing countries.”

http://www.vatican.va/holy_father/benedict_xvi/encyclicals/documents/hf_ben-xvi_enc_20090629_caritas-in-veritate_en.html

To be fair to Jim, I don’t think he intended to indict the U.S. bishops as being among those who have forgotten the (economic) lessons of history, but one would be hard pressed not to. Ever since Vatican II and the formation of deliberative, organized bodies of bishops through the NCCB and the USCC which later merged into the present day USCCB, the brain trust of the bishops has been the bureaucratic staff who do the research and drafting of policies which find their way into Pastoral Statements.  As always happens in such deliberative bodies, especially those filled with the ever cursed “good intentions,” the direction they take is determined by those hired to direct the bureaucracy.  Garbage in - garbage out; liberal in - liberal out; leftist in - leftist out.  This is going to happen when the “farmers” are not there watching the “hen house.”  Case in point, how in the world was “social justice” allowed to be move into the house of pro-life to where the right to life of the unborn now has to share rooms with the “right” to housing, and the “right” health care, and the “right” unionize and earn a fair wage, and the “right” of immigrants, all issues the USCCB lobby government to enact regardless to the consequences.  What consequences?  The near total collapse of the entire financial sector due to Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, quasi government entities created and used to pressure lenders (assisted by ACORN funded by the Catholic Church) to give housing loans to people who could not afford to pay them back resulting in the collapse of the housing market, the loss of 40% of peoples retirement monies, and 10% unemployment, etc.  And then there is the health care “reform” atrocity the USCCB support as long as it doesn’t include funding for abortion and repeal of the Conscience Clause, a piece of legislation crafted with bribes to various groups and states by the proabortion party in the backroom of the White House with the pro-life party locked out.  And the bishops support legislation created that way?!  And of course the most recent revelation of the average unionized government employee’s income as being almost twice that of the non union, employee in private enterprise.  Meanwhile the pro-life house created originally to protect the unborn fills with the 50,000,000 + babies murdered as a result of the church-going Catholics’ continuing support for the proabortion party and their candidates - because, after all, they are “prolife,” too, thanks to Cardinal Bernardin and the gentle, civil, “can’t we all just get along,” holy nature of collegiality that permeates the collective body of the U.S. Bishops.

Part 1.To be fair to Jim, I don’t think he intended to indict the U.S. bishops as being among those who have forgotten the (economic) lessons of history, but one would be hard pressed not to. Ever since Vatican II and the formation of deliberative, organized bodies of bishops through the NCCB and the USCC which later merged into the present day USCCB, the brain trust of the bishops has been the bureaucratic staff who do the research and drafting of policies which find their way into Pastoral Statements.  As always happens in such deliberative bodies, especially those filled with the ever cursed “good intentions,” the direction they take is determined by those hired to direct the bureaucracy.  Garbage in - garbage out; liberal in - liberal out; leftist in - leftist out.  This is going to happen when the “farmers” are not there watching the “hen house.”  Case in point…

Part 2. ...how in the world was “social justice” allowed to be move into the house of pro-life to where the right to life of the unborn now has to share rooms with the “right” to housing, and the “right” health care, and the “right” unionize and earn a fair wage, and the “right” of immigrants, all issues the USCCB lobby government to enact regardless to the consequences.  What consequences?  ...The near total collapse of the entire financial sector due to Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, quasi government entities created and used to pressure lenders (assisted by ACORN funded by the Catholic Church) to give housing loans to people who could not afford to pay them back resulting in the collapse of the housing market, the loss of 40% of peoples retirement monies, and 10% unemployment, etc.  And then there is the health care “reform” atrocity the USCCB support as long as it doesn’t include funding for abortion and repeal of the Conscience Clause, a piece of legislation crafted with bribes to various groups and states by the pro-abortion party in the backroom of the White House with the pro-life party locked out.  And the bishops support legislation created that way?!  And of course the most recent revelation of the average unionized government employee’s income as being almost twice that of the non union, employee in private enterprise…

I am totally amazed on the response of health care reform in the USA. Ever since the beginning of Catholicism, looking after the needy was a response to Jesus’ teaching.
However, free enterprise in the USA has deprived the most needy in the name of profit. Your health care discriminate against the poor and the not so poor.
The State has a responsibility to all citizens, making sure that the free enterprise health care service insures evenly and the multi restrictions placed upon the average person.
The free enterprise health system left by itself to regulate itself, has been a failure. Regulations are needed to make it fair and the people who are unable to afford health care becomes the responsibility of the government. This is not socialism; this is social justice.

@Anthony

Please point out where it is in the bible where Jesus came to get governments to do his works.  I must have missed it.

Read the Catechism if you don’t believe the Church is supposed to influence government.  So many believe it is true when we apply it to abortion, but not so on other social justice issues. 
Brother Alan Parham, FSC

@Brother Alan.  The difference between influencing government on abortion versus “social justice” issues, is one concerns the murder of innocent human beings, that we Catholics profess to believe every Sunday in Mass is life given by the Holy Spirit, i.e., God.  We also pray in the Mass the only prayer Jesus ever gave us so that we “would know how to talk to God the Father” in which we pray for His will to” be done on earth…and to deliver us from evil.”  Does a Catholic who professes that and prays that believe God creates life to be aborted?  A Catholic who professes to believe that God is the giver of life, and prays for God’s will to be done on earth, and also prays “to be delivered from evil,” has every right in a democracy to do what he legally can do to change a man-made “law” that is contrary to what he professes to believe, willingly, in his own words and prays for (no one is forcing him to say them).  And especially when this “law” was dictated to us not by an elected body but by a court that the people have no influence over other than who gets elected president and to the US Senate.  On top of that, law already recognizes that taken the life of an unborn child, other than by abortion, is a capital offence, which is why the Muslim terrorist who murdered the soldiers was charged with 14 murders, not 13.  So, yes, we have every right to influence government in this matter.

What capital crime, or even sin, does one violate concerning “social justice?”

Brother Alan believes that the Church should push government to do more for its people. I disagree. I believe the Church should do more for the people. Get the controlling, inefficient, self-serving government out. Rather, allow those who care for others (this should include all Christians) provide the help. The Church has supported orphanages, schools, hospitals, social services, etc. for centuries. These activities should continue and expand. The more the government takes from those who earn it, the less will be available to give to those who need it.
Rachelle wrote that other democratic countries have socialized health care that works well for their citizens. Yet, many in Canada, England, and other countries come to the United States for health care that they cannot get in their own countries, not because they cannot afford it, but because the rationing of health care won’t allow them to have it.
This country does not have enough doctors to provide the medical services that will be demanded under the current health plan. That means rationing and increased costs. Can the government encourage more to become doctors? I have met many doctors who have left the profession because of the current regulations, stress, and costs.
Now, the government certainly has a roll to play in ensuring that all have opportunity to attain what their abilities will allow them. And, I believe, that the government should have policies that encourage the care of its most vulnerable and weakest citizens; but I don’t believe that the government should provide that care.
As “the Church” it is our responsibility to care for the sick, poor, and vulnerable. The government should give us the freedom to do so.
Brother Alan also mentioned those who are in this country without legal status. This is a complicate subject which includes many who are victims of circumstances as well as those who put themselves in their own predicament. It is another problem that needs addressing, but Brother Alan is using too simplistic an example and not appropriate for this discussion. Those who put themselves in the situation created their own walls. The US did not create the walls, they did. Those who are victims of circumstances need some assistance. However, the two are often intertwined. Thus, it is a complicated issue that needs addressing by good, knowledgeable, inventive, intelligent, and caring people with minds open to new ideas who also have the ability to consider the consequences.
I like the article and generally agree. I appreciate the insights.

Complicated?  It’s as complicated as the student who stands before me whose parents are undocumented.  Let’s put a human face on these issues!
Brother Alan

@Brother Alan, perhaps you did not see the question I asked you at the end of my reply to your message to me earlier; or are you still working on it?  As for the question of “complicated” and being able to “see the face of the student standing before you with undocumented parents,” are you advocating line crashing and violating immigration laws of a sovereign nation are social behaviors worth encouraging in others and accommodating those who do such things?  Perhaps you find it acceptable to have purchased tickets to the theater and on the night of the event you discover the people who crashed the line ahead of you, and snuck in, are sitting in your assigned seats.  That is OK with you, isn’t it, and you let them stay because you see their faces?  Are you that generous that you would also give them you’re prepaid tickets for dinner?afterwards?

There are no walls in Christianity.  Yes, I do see the face of Christ in “them,” except there is no us and them. 
Yes, I am still working on many questions, but some are already resolved by the Church.  This isn’t about winning an argument; it’s about welcoming all to the table of the Lord.  Sorry if our presence (Latino) disturbs you; we are here to stay.

@Brother Alan, knowing what is right and wrong is not about “winning an argument,” it’s about wisdom.  One has wisdom and knows what is right and wrong; or one doesn’t.  Pro-lifers have the wisdom to fight for the right to life.  Pro so called “social justice” supports can’t defend their position in the same way true prolifers can because it is not something Jesus came into the world to promote.  That is why you have not been able come up with any crimes or sins against your “social justice” issues.  So called “social justice” issues are concepts concocted by socialist minds and are imposed on all peoples via governments to the detriment of their freedoms.  As for there not being “no walls up in Christianity” that depends on how you define Christianity.  There were those in the early days that went around calling themselves Christian that were not, and the early Church bishops had to come up with a Creed that stated the minimum tenets one must believe to be a Christian.  We say that Creed today in the weekend Mass.  The key word in that Creed is “BELIEVE.”  There is a difference between saying something and believing it.  The DEED determines what one believes, not the words.  And 55% of Catholics who SAY they believe “in the Holy Spirit, the Lord, the giver of life,” gave their vote to the pro-abortion, pro-infanticide Democrat nominee for president and are a reason Obama is now in the White House, as well as pro-abortion Holy Communion receiving Catholic Nancy Pelosi is in Congress and enjoys the power of being Speaker of the House, and pro-abortion Holy Communion receiving Catholic Joe Biden has been a US Senator for over three decades and now is Vice-President.  Two of those three “claim” to believe God is the giver of life.  All three of those people would say they support “social justice, as do you.  I don’t because the Church’s argument for it is not supportable by the bible in this day and age, and you, yourself, can’t even provide a single crime or sin committed against such “issues.” 
As for a person’s country of origin, or color, I care not.  As for their being DECENT, HONEST and RESPECTFUL OF A COUNTRY’S LAWS in which they come into and want to work and live, I certainly do care about - as should you and all followers of Christ.

I have not been following most of the comments, but the one on social justice sparked a fire….there is such a thing in our Church yet it has been made to something it was not meant to be and many priests and nuns have left what they should be doing an followed this “thread”, leading in some places to liberation theology, a form of communism.

We are meant to help the poor, which the Church does and will continue to do, but not to allow people to come here illegally, when so many are waiting to come legally, as my ancestors did.  We can not have open borders, especially today with the terrorism going on, and we must see who is coming in; it is just plain common sense to not want criminals or those with terrible infectious disease and so on.

It is hard to say no to people that need help, yet we have spent probably billions trying to help the Mexican government and they must work out their system so that there are not just the rich and then the poor.

Christ’s peace to you all.  If countries that owe us money would just pay us back our national debt would be gone…that is how generous our country is.

Life is not less sacred outside of the womb.  I don’t know if I am wise or not, but your viewpoint on status of immigrants is not the Church’s wisdom.
Brother Alan

It takes 8 - 20 years for a poor Mexican to come here legally.  As long as we think in terms of us and them, we will continue to justify such discrimination.  And this is not Catholic teaching; we are all precious in God’s eyes.  There is no us and them.
Brother Alan

Brother Alan, I am sure it took a long time for relatives to get here, too….and they had to cross the sea.  It does not cost money to come into the country from Mexico, just time.  It does not make it right for them to just come and break the law. We also do not know WHO is coming and what kind of person they are.  This is called misplaced social justice….

Where’s the “discrimination,” brother Alan, that you are injecting into this subject?  Seems to me God is responsible for creating life and where.  Is He the one who is discriminating?

Pope Benedict VXI is where I get my ideas on migrants.  Please read what he has said on this subject.
Brother Alan

Brother Alan, I am sure the pope was not speaking of those coming illegally.  there has to be a system in place, to protect the immigrants and to protect our country.

Brother Alan, I see nothing wrong with the Church acting out on her beliefs and teachings.  I do see something wrong with her trying to dictate to others outside the Church to have to abide by her teachings using the force of secular government.  That is not Christian. 
In fact, it has worked against Christianity and God’s will. The USCCB created a bureaucracy to be able to develop and promote their “consistent ethic of life,” which came out with in the ‘80s.  Their plan was not undertaken with a pure, loving heart, but was, in fact, a reactionary response to the numbers of Catholics who were becoming prolife, under it’s original definition of being opposed to abortion, who were gravitating towards the Republican Party because of it’s prolife plank in their platform and the numbers of Republican elected officials who were, indeed, prolife. 
The liberal and leftist bishops and priest were concerned about that. Concerned because of the alarm that was causing their contacts within legislatures who they considered allies in other areas that they had political interest in.  The consequences of that political development caused the bishops to dilute the meaning of “prolife” by adding to it the so-called “social justice” issues that you allude to, enabling you to say, “Life is not less sacred outside of the womb.”
There is a certain haughty undertone in your saying that, one that I have noticed in all people I have dialogued with holding your perspective.  That haughtiness enables those Catholics to feel comfortable giving their name identification and votes to the pro-abortion party.  The consequence of all of this is that church-going Catholics remain the largest single voting bloc for the pro-abortion party.  And in this past election, 55% of Catholics voted for the pro-abortion, pro-infanticide Democrat candidate for President.  Now, we are all paying the price for those votes – but not as costly a price as the 50,000,000+ babies paid, or their regretful mothers, because of the bishops wrong headed, un-Christian decision to expand the definition of prolife to include things that are not evil – just political with pros and cons of which is the best way to deal with them.
The bishops say in their Statements that there are numerous “pro-life issues” and they claim the Church does “not fit neatly” in one political camp or another.  In their Interim Reflections – Task Force on Catholic Bishops and Catholic Politicians, they asked the question, “Without apology, we ask Catholics whether your faith shapes your politics or is it the other way around?”  The historical evidence of the workings of the USCCB, Cardinal Bernardin and his assistant, Fr. J. Bryan Hehir, and the numbers of Catholics still registered in the pro-abortion party and voting for Democrats is evidence that at least half of Catholics who go to church, including bishops, priest and religious, let their politics shape their faith. 
As a former liberal Democrat from South Chicago, I can attest that I let my faith form my politics.  And I am perfectly aware that “life is not less sacred outside of the womb.”  But I don’t set my common sense and reasoning aside, or Christ’s teachings about our fellow man.  How DOES one TRUST the “good will” thinking of a political party that defends the murder of over 50,000,000+ babies?  How does one give unquestioned loyalty to religious leaders who orchestrated the plan to protect the only political party defending and arguing for the existence of abortion-on-demand remaining the law-of–the land?

If you do your research, you’ll find that the Pope was indeed talking about undocumented immigrants.  He made that clear when he called the wall on the US-Mexican border “innhuman.”  He also made a strong statement in 2007 on the 93rd World Day of Migrants.  Tom Tancredo blastedthe Pope for his criticism of our discrimination gainst “illegal” immigrants.  The Church makes no distinction when it edeals with immigrants.  Brother Alan

Brother Alan, the pope was wrong in calling the wall “inhumane” and advocating illegal behavior.  Popes are allowed to be wrong.  He was a man.  He was speaking as a person, not with the authority of his chair.  He also said the death penalty should be ended as we have the technology to put offenders away such that they will not be able to harm innocent people again.  He didn’t know what he was talking about there either. A simple google would have provided the information that would have disproved his reasoning for his opinion and saved him from making an ignorant statement.  The recent popes also believe in “global warming.”  Common sense is sufficient to know how dumb that was. Now the evidence is coming out that it was a gigantic lie perpetrated on unknowing people by unethical and immoral men of science who had financial and political reasons for creating this hoax. But common sense does not seem to be a prerequisite for the staffs that provide the pope and our other bishops with information on which to make the intelligent, informed decisions they should make.  President Ronald Reagan’s admonition in dealing with the Soviet Union, at that time, to “Trust – but verify” is one that all who want to pontificate on so-called “social justice” issues would be well to heed.  His understanding of the “enemy” and basic American values enabled him to turn our economic peril here at home, around, after the destruction that that stupid, pontificating, moralist Jimmy Carter caused in just four years, while at the same time set in motions plans and maneuvers that led to the collapse of the atheistic Soviet Union and the freeing of hundreds of millions of enslaved people.  There is nothing better than to use the common sense God gave us and the ability to recognize evil. 
Nothing you have said to “defend” your position negates the common sense JUDY has given you earlier in these messages as to why illegal immigration is wrong and harmful.  You have a closed mind to fairness and obeying the rules.  Liberals don’t like rules…it keeps them from doing what they want to do, aka Communion receiving, pro-abortion Nancy Pelosi, Joe Biden, John Kerry, and Secretary of Health Selebius, and High Mass funeral recipient Ted Kennedy aka “the swimmer.”
Liberals are like lemmings that are notable for the recurrent mass migrations which often continue into the sea where vast numbers are drowned.  They do not have a thinking pattern I am willing or interested in following because God has given me common sense, the ability to think, and to recognize truth and evil …things lemmings have proven over and over again they fail to have.

This “liberal” still thinks the Pope makes more sense.  What else do you think the Vicar of Christ is wrong about?
Brother Alan

Brother Alan,

How?