OTTAWA — Canada’s largest province is forcing its taxpayer-supported Catholic schools to let homosexual students start their own clubs.
The Accepting Schools Act received final reading by the provincial parliament on June 5, with the support of the governing Liberals and their allies in the socialist New Democratic Party. The Catholic bishops and school trustees opposed it, along with various parents’ rights groups and the Evangelical Federation of Canada, but teachers groups, including the English Catholic Teachers Association and homosexual-rights groups such as EGALE Canada, supported it.
“Today is about saying to Ontario students, ‘You can be who you are. You will be safe and accepted at school, and the Ontario government supports you in that desire,’” Education Minister Laurel Broten said after the vote.
But Cardinal Thomas Collins, president of the Ontario Assembly of Catholic Bishops, deplored the move as an attack on religious freedom.
“We are all committed to obeying the law, but we can question whether the law is wise, whether the law is just, or whether the law is a kind of intrusion or limiting of religious freedom,” he said.
Others are questioning whether the Catholic bishops did enough to oppose the bill. They did not appear personally at legislative hearings, nor did they have their position published in church bulletins or make any appeal to the faithful to lobby members of the provincial parliament, a standard tactic of American Catholic bishops at the state level.
“I don’t think it’s just a reasonable strategy to rally people in the pews,” Peter Stockland told the National Post. “It’s an imperative strategy.” Stockland, who is senior fellow with Cardus, a church-state think tank based in Hamilton, Ontario, said, “This is not about gay rights versus somebody else’s rights. This is about Charter [of Rights and Freedoms] rights to religious freedom.”
But Joanne McGarry, executive director of the Toronto-based Catholic Civil Rights League of Canada, said, “Well, if there is going to be any finger pointing, the finger should point at the Ontario government. They pretended up until the 11th hour that they were listening to Catholic educators. Then they went ahead and did this.”
“It’s no secret what the agenda of the gay-rights organizations is,” McGarry told the Register. “They want it taught that all [sexual] orientations are on a level playing field.”
Anti-Bullying Measure
McGarry said homosexual-rights groups have been using lawsuits to back Catholic schools into a corner where they won’t be able to teach Catholic sexual morality at all. “Whenever a homosexual student has complained about how a Catholic school has responded to a concern, various gay activist groups have been quick to take up their cause.”
The bill not only requires all schools to allow students to form “gay-straight alliance” clubs — intended to prevent bullying against homosexuals — but under an 11th-hour amendment by the government, they must allow students to call them “gay-straight alliances,” an apparent attack on the Catholic system, whose trustees believed until then the government would let them call theirs “Respecting Differences” clubs and let them address all kinds of bullying. Under pressure from homosexual lobby groups, however, the government chose to treat both the public and Catholic systems equally.
Surveys of Canadian students have found sexual orientation to be a miniscule pretext for bullying, far behind body image and grades. But the homosexual-rights lobby group EGALE Canada’s 2011 survey of students reported 74% of “transgendered” students and 55% of homosexual students have been verbally harassed about their gender expression, and 21% of both groups had been physically harassed.
McGarry, of the Catholic Civil Rights League, said the legislation appears not to prohibit schools from putting adults in the clubs as supervisors. Possibly, she said, these supervisors could impart Catholic teaching on homosexual acts, which is that it is “intrinsically disordered,” while homosexual persons are to be “accepted with respect, compassion and sensitivity.”
Basing itself on sacred Scripture, which presents homosexual acts as acts of grave depravity, tradition has always declared that “homosexual acts are intrinsically disordered.” As the Catechism notes, “They are contrary to the natural law. They close the sexual act to the gift of life. They do not proceed from a genuine affective and sexual complementarity. Under no circumstance can they be approved” (2357).
As the Catechism continues, “The number of men and women who have deep-seated homosexual tendencies is not negligible. They must be accepted with respect, compassion and sensitivity. Every sign of unjust discrimination in their regard should be avoided. These persons are called to fulfill God’s will in their lives and, if they are Christians, to unite to the sacrifice of the Lord’s cross the difficulties they may encounter from their condition” (2358).
Questioning Funding
But there is widespread skepticism about the Catholic school system’s ability to maintain a meaningful distinction between the sinner and the sin with respect to homosexuality. Toronto Globe and Mail columnist Tabitha Southey said that if the Catholic schools are allowed to teach the Catholic moral position, “it means that an exceptionally vulnerable minority will be told that it is a sin to act on or even fantasize about any attraction to a member of the same sex at any point in their lifetime.”
At least two ministers of parliament, Glen Murray and Cheri De Novo, have said the new law means the Catholic Church must stop teaching that homosexual acts are a sin.
Many pundits joined Mike Schreiner, the leader of the Green Party, in calling for the closure of the Catholic system.
“This absolutely is an example of how dangerous it is when you start funding one religion at the exclusion of all others. We’re talking about cutting essential services, including a number of services in the education sector, without even considering or having a conversation about the most obvious source of duplication in the system,” said Schreiner.
So the issue has shifted from the clubs to whether the Catholic schools should receive public funding. Ontario started providing some funding for Catholic schools in the 1850s, when it was still a British colony. When Canada became a nation, Ontario’s Catholic schools were guaranteed by the new constitution. Both systems teach the government curriculum, except for religion.
In recent years, pressure from sexual “minorities” has increased on the government to prevent the Catholic schools from teaching Catholic morality or from treating homosexual activity as they treat any other immoral activities.
For Teresa Pierre, director of a Catholic parents group called Parents as First Educators, it is a matter not just of saving tax dollars, but of parental rights to teach their children morality.
“The Church’s position on homosexuals is not different than any group struggling to abide by Catholic teaching,” she said. “It is no different than straight teens who are sexually active. We wouldn’t have clubs centered around birth control.”
The group’s opinion of the new law is expressed clearly in the headline on its website: “Bill 13 throws mainline religions under the bus.” It continues, “The province is pushing kids toward a type of social engineering that the ethical codes of most of the major world religions oppose.”
Register correspondent Steve Weatherbe writes from Victoria, British Columbia.
Dan Burke: The Light of God in Nashville, Tennessee
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I guess we are being shown that we failed to teach about the Marriage Covenant… Anyway, Christ knew we would fail and He died for us anyway. Praise be to God.
Catholic schools in Ontario are paid for with tax money. If Catholics want schools free of state regulations that they perceive to be against Catholic teaching they should fund their own schools.
This is an opportunity for Catholic Schools to engage in social teaching of the govt. They should unite and say: gay clubs can operate in our schools, but they must be consistent with Catholic social teaching. They must be supported with spiritual direction along the lines of Courage, the Catholic gay group dedicated to following Jesus Christ’s call to chastity. They can invite Courage to come to schools and help students organize local chapters. If the govt cannot stand for this, the Catholic school system should sue the Canadian govt for interference with religion.
I am a devout practising Christian. I obey Christ Jesus’ Commandment to love my neighbour as myself and to treat others as I would like to be treated myself. I believe that we as Christians must stand in loving support and solidarity with those who are marginalised by society.
The empirical evidence indicates that young LGBT people are particularly at risk of suicide and self harm. In my work with some of these young people, I see the suffering inflicted on them by people who often profess to be Christian. Their actions belie their beliefs. These young people may feel such rejection that for them suicide is a rational act. Those responsible for this suffering should seek God’s forgiveness and make amends by standing in solidarity with their LGBT sisters and brothers.
Dr. Margaret O’Keeffe
I stopped reading after it said the Church receives government funding. History is replete of examples where the Church goes sideways once it is a “partner” with government, whether it be monarchs or schools systems. The “fortnight of freedom” should be about the Church regaining it’s independence from government. I am sure the “flames” will blaze once I type this, but here it is. The Church should be ashamed of itself. The government has every right to dictate to the Church the standards it imposes when it is providing the monies. The crisis we face is not new. It’s as old as the Church. Sever the ties with government. If the Church wants to deliver the Gospel mandate, then it’s people need to be willing to sustain it with time, talent and treasure and not depend on Caesar. The Church needs to get out of the government partnership business. We need to take the LOG OUT OF OUR OWN EYE. How would Catholics feel if Mormons or Muslims (e.g, the Middle East) were in the majority and demanding their beliefs be imposed on a minority by law? All the problems in the U.S. Church can be solved by CATHOLICS. Unfaithful, liberal Catholics being faithful to teaching. And Conservative Catholics getting a clue that we should not expect Uncle Sam to pass laws that promote Catholic beliefs. Then we could stand up for “moral and just laws” without being compromised with conflicts of interest.
It may sound harsh, but it the school accepts Government money it has to do what the Government says.
The Catholic Church must never ever waiver on opposing homosexuality. This new radical movement is the most dangerous and insidious threat to civilization we have ever faced. They have already intimidated half the population into accepting the most unnatural of sexual practices. Sometimes I think modern society has lost all common sense. We cannot see the most obvious of ills.
In my lifetime, two governments took on the Church as an enemy in hopes of neutralizing it or destroying it. Hitler neutralized the Church and Russia did it’s best to destroy it.
The Church is the only enemy the state really fears since the Church refuses to answer to the state as the highest authority over man - they honor the one true God. This constitutes a huge and dangerous enemy dictators and now to the socialist state of Obama. Obama knows enough of history to fear the independence of the Church which declares that it answers first to God. The Obama playbook extracts Russian and Hitler lessons to at least neutralize the Church and if you read the events of the Obama years, the attack is clearer every month of his reign. Since there are far more institutions devoted to freedom in the US, Obama focuses on neutralization of Church versus destruction. Too many people who love freedom join the Church when they see how freedom itself under attack in America, not just the Church.
Remember, Stalin bragged that the Church had no military divisions to fight himself and he could crush the Church. Today’s Church has found many allies.
The homosexual army is at war with God and will do everything possible to destroy God and His rule over souls. They care far less about sexual freedom - which they already have for all intent and purpose - than the end of God in the world.
Hopefully, enough people who understand that the destruction of freedom is their enslavement, will put a stop to Obama who answers to no god other than the god he has defined for much of his life. His only acknowledgement of God comes from a few political advisers who advise him to placate the people a bit here and there.
The man who once refused to salute our flag and reverence public prayer, uses the radical homosexual army for his own far greater agenda to change America and they - like sheep of many a leader in the past, hold up their signs and cheer him on and promise their lives to his re-election ignoring the reality that their freedom ends when ohers’ does.
WKAE UP AMERICA!
The Church/State dynamic is definitely shifting. Increasingly, Caeser’s money is coming with Caeser’s strings. We’re seeing this in the States with adoption services. This kind of possibility is the primary reason I am circumspect about vouchers here in the U.S. (government gives parents money to pay for private, possibly religious schools).
It may be time for the Church to foster greater independence and diligence in funding and operating its charity arms. This is a statement about our particular situation and not about what an ideal arrangement would look like.
Shouldn’t the Catholic Church be teaching love and tolerance for those that are different, instead of intolerance and hate! When it comes to Gays, the Church speaks with a “Forked tongue”, telling the faithful to be considerate, and then cutting Gays to pieces for every little reason it can find! Shame on the Church! Where is the Love of Christ shown by treating Gays as if they were monsters from another planet?
The perils of accepting any funding from a government are evident here. Frankly though, our friends in Canada have sown the seeds of socialism at a much faster rate than in the U.S. and are now reeping from this long-term trend. Socialism (whether in education or medical care)encourages a people to have faith in their government and not their God. The Catholic Church (and other forms of Orthodoxy) are doomed to a return to the catacombs as the forces of evil spread their doctrine. This is increasingly evident in Europe and shamefully evident in Canada where one can be prosecuted for defaming Islam. I will pray for my brothers and sisters north of the border…but I will keep my rifles clean.
our world sure knows how to dare God…we allow the murder of 10’s of millions of little children to be killed in the womb….we watch the priests of Jesus commit unheard of acts of sin against teenagers….and know we allow the minds of children to be polluted with the filth of same sex deviation..HOW LONG WILL GOD HOLD OFF HIS JUSTICE UPON THE WORLD..SODOM AND GOMMORAH WAS DESTROYED BY HOMOSEXUAL DEPRAVITY…WHAT IS GOING TO BECOME OF SOCIETY AS WE CONTINUALLY DARE GODS JUSTICE….
Yet another reason that I, as a homeschooling parent, want absolutely nothing to do with tax breaks, tax deductions, or any sort of financial assistance or compensation for our educational expenses. It’s harder for Big Brother to take control of what I teach, the more autonomous I am.
A lesson, I might add, that extends beyond education. Our liberties today in ANY area of our lives would not be under so much threat if government didn’t have a foot-hold in so many places!
The Catholic Church is shooting itself in the foot because Catholics VOTE for Liberal Politicians who in turn work against the church.
What I have already suggested and suggest again is to tell the government officials to keep their funding of Catholic schools and abandon ourselves to Divine Providence - that never fails to those who entrust themselves to God. We shouldn’t be afraid to do that.
Catholic school parents should be given vouchers for their share of tax money that now goes to support public schools.
Also, the Catholic bishops in the USA stated,“We cannot comply, we will not comply”. This is the great battle of good vs. evil. Which side are you on?
Let’s put honesty in the socialists’ mouths about their motives with children:
(Maleficent voice optional.)
“You can be who you are…except…faithful to the word of God!”
“You will be safe…and…accepted…at school…unless you DISAGREE with us!!!”
“And the Ontario government supports you…in OUR desire!” [evil cackling]
I’d look for alternatives to state funds, so the church can tell these Commie witches where the shove it.
The only reason to start gay sex clubs with gay leaders in a school with small children is to invite pedophiles in. Whoever doesn’t see that is either naive or an accomplice to this evil.
Two facts emerge from this article: First, homosexual activist groups couldn’t care less about bullying in all its expressions and use it merely as wedge to gain a foothold to indoctrinate children during their most impressionable years. Second, the Catholic Church in North America—-the bishops and priests, religious, and laity together—-must find a way to wean ourselves away from government money in order to safeguard religious liberty and fidelity to Christ. As Jesus admonishes us, we cannot serve God and mammon at the same time.
In response to Dr. Margaret O’Keeffe… The suicidal ideation of homosexual youngsters is not a result of society’s lack of acceptance of them. Today, they are often praised and they can see homosexual celebrities and acceptance at every level of society and government. Yet that still does not counter the deep awareness they naturally sense that their inclinations and behavior are unnatural and gravely disordered. As a physician myself, I hear all the time just how disturbing and self loathing their sexual practices are and how dangerous it is for their overall health. Their anger is not with society but with themselves. An intelligent Christian would serve them better by trying to help them suppress and ultimately change these tendencies the same as we would do with any other sociopathic behavior. We would not encourage someone with the inclination to have sexual relations with children or animals no matter how convinced they were that this is the way they were born. Reinforcing their delusion that the world is flat when it is round does not serve them well.
Barbara McDonnell writes “Catholic schools in Ontario are paid for with tax money. If Catholics want schools free of state regulations that they perceive to be against Catholic teaching they should fund their own schools.”
Dear Ms. McDonnell I am a Catholic resident who lives in Ontario and contrary to your I’ll informed views I along with other Catholics do pay taxes. Plenty. But apparently our views and rights do not matter in a province where I’m also forced to pay for abortions. This is not a Catholics only issue. There are Evangelicals, Moslems, Jews and even agnostics who are upset. This is a charter issue. Our religious beliefs are apparently not respected or protected.
If this was about taxes and fairness vs an agenda then every single govert funded group should be forced to fall under this new law.
I’m a graduating high school student in Western Canada. My school is government funded as well. I won’t be surprised if this gets to my school before long. More to the point, the powers that be have forgotten what the purpose of Catholic schools is. Heck, I don’t even know, and I’ve been in them most of my life! I’d say let the government change them all to public. Faith should be taught in the home anyway.
My daughter attended a small Catholic college. They refused to accept any federal funding.Now I know why.
The state may be supporting the Catholic schools but we need to consider the fact that the state is also supported by Catholic taxpayers. Perhaps taxpayers need to be able to designate where their “school dollars” are spent and leave what is morally imparted to the institutions they wish to fund. It appears that Canadians do not have a tradition of avoiding infringement of religious rights and are placing interests of the gay community above those rights. Perhaps it is time to realize that those elected to government need to be more carefully chosen because gay activists have an agenda that unfolds incrementally. Many will be unhappy about any progress made by the B4U-ACT crowd down the road.
Read 2 Timothy 3
I see a number of comments here suggesting the Catholic church should stop accepting government money if they wish to run their organizations as they wish. I don’t see how that solves the problem.
Firstly, the government is supposed to be working for us and monies collected from us, the tax payers, should be allocated fairly and wisely. We all tend to forget that piece of the puzzle.
Secondly, from what I understand concerning the HHS mandate - it wouldn’t matter whether we were accepting government funding or not, we would be expected to obey, or be harshly fined.
Catholics, please push back, open a dialogue with people around you, join the rallies, stand-up and be counted. Don’t let us be bullied by our government representatives, the media, etc.!!!
In the U.S. where I live, our Catholic schools take NO GOVERNMENT FUNDING. We have to pay for them for our children, on TOP of our tax dollars to public schools we will never use. I find this unfair, yet, I know that Freedom is never really Free. I could never tolerate my children being taught an agenda that is so disturbing, especially at younger ages where they aren’t even THINKING about these things yet. If you live and die by your money, by your tax dollars, then you are greatly misled and seriously in need of reading about martyrs and saints who have given up much more than this for their faith. This is a fight about the morality and souls of your children! Wake UP! If you cannot afford a school that will teach your children as you believe, then HOMESCHOOL them. This is your right, and your OBLIGATION. Then, FIGHT, FIGHT, FIGHT this with all your heart, all your soul, all your mind, and all your strength by writing your legislators, attending rallies, and standing with fellow people of faith for your right to live and teach as YOU BELIEVE. Living your faith DOES NOT tell those who choose “alternative lifestyles” that you somehow hate them. Ironically, a loving family life teaches and shows love to ALL members of society and is an example of the greater calling of God above your financial status, current living situations, or sexual orientation. Please fight this people of Canada! Your children’s SOULs are at stake, and the Future of your country!
Kudos to Michael J. Connelly! Well said! God bless you.
“We are all committed to obeying the law, but we can question whether the law is wise, whether the law is just, or whether the law is a kind of intrusion or limiting of religious freedom,” he said.”
This statement is a disgrace.
No wonder Canada has fallen to the enemies of Christ.
Nice play on words, claiming that the state is “bullying” Catholics. But when was the last time a kid jumped off a bridge because s/he was tormented for being a Catholic? When was the last time someone was bashed on the street for being a Catholic? When was the last time a parents kicked their kids out of the house because they became Catholic?
Yeah, I can’t think of any either.
This is from the “Growing In Love” GIL sex education curriculum in Catholic schools in the United States.
http://www.motherswatch.net/content/view/12/6/ describes the horrors placed before the eyes of youth paid for by the community of people.
“… the bishops have given their stamp of approval to a sex series that fosters the acceptance of sodomite lifestyles. GIL leads children into a dangerous early familiarity with sex and acceptance of perverted acts that should not even be discussed among adults. When bishops endorse teaching a kindergarten curriculum with details of body parts, from nipples to vulvas to scrotums, and urination and defecation it is blatantly evident that these innocent children are being courted by the homosexual/pedophile cartel! When bishops teach kindergarten children that there are many types of “acceptable” families, including homosexuals, they are proselytizing perversity that will destroy the integrity of the family!”
BTW, sex education in classrooms secures abortion.
I am a Catholic parent living in Ontario and it’s been a rough ride for the last month with protests, petitions.. etc.
The way funding is set up here is that taxpayers get to direct their taxes to the school board they wish to support. 6.2 million ratepayers support the Catholic system. Perhaps cutting ties completely with the government would help matters, but I wonder. I’m sickened with my country and how fast it’s slipping into secular fundamentalism. The concerning part of having these GSAs (Gay-Straight Allliances) is that they are not just after- school support groups. They are activist groups promoting a worldview that is diametrically opposite the Christian vision of the human person. In Alberta recently, they were trying or have already passed a bill that mandates that all schools, public, private and HOMESCHOOLERS must teach respect for sexual orientation and diversity. This overreach into people’s homes is the most disturbing thing of all. This is what happens when same-sex marriage is legalized. If it becomes the moral equivalent in law, the education system follows. The law is a teacher. Please do not make the same mistakes as Canada!!!
Yes, it is a curse. The Western civilization is dying Let all indulge in sex and sex Only catholic Church and the dedicated believers can have courage to question the perversions. may God bless
@several people
In some ways it would be better to deny government money but that has other effects. Right now over 90% of Catholics in ALberta and Ontario benefit from Catholic Schooling while under 15% of Americans do.
Ideally every Catholic would go to a Catholic school free from the government but here and now that isn’t happening.
What compromises do you have to make to reach everyone? Are they worth it? I honestly don’t know the answer to that 2nd question.
Hmmm. This is something to consider with respect to the push for voucher programs. Remember that taking “government” money always comes with conditions. I’m not suggesting that voucher programs, or some other means of reimbursement, should not be considered. I am just saying that this type of situation should be anticipated when such programs are proposed.
Atila Sinke Guimaraes has written a book called “Vatican II, Homosexuality & Pedophilia”. This book gives more insight to what is going on in Canada.
Thanks alexandra. We have to stop pretending that liberalism as a neutral position taken by the government is anything other than a farce. It’s a zero-sum game: the only way the homosexualist agenda wins is if good public moral sense loses. To wit: a government that does this is a government gone off the rails.
Mike answered well the teen suicide thing but I’ll add that whenever you get this objection, simply ask, “Ok, how do we prevent teen suicides AND make it unambiguously clear to them that homosexual acts are always and everywhere wrong?” In other words, if the objector refuses to grant that homosexual acts are wrong in and of themselves, then teen suicide isn’t the real objection but is a cheap emotional blackmail ploy.
To Dr. Margaret O’Keefe and jm and others who think like they think.: Dr. O’Keefe you say that you are a devout Catholic and you represent a view held by many Catholics, but it is very flawed. As a devout Catholic you love Jesus and the Trinity with all your heart, soul and mind. Correct? You know that sin exists and that Christ has overcome all sin. Correct? You know that Christ came to heal the sinner and bring them salvation. Correct? You understand that when you really love someone you don’t want to condemn them to be slaves of the flesh or slaves of anything and vulnerable to eternal damnation and separation from God. Correct? So you really wouldn’t want someone to see you indulging in a sin condemned clearly by the Church and the Apostles in their letters and then support you in committing it would you? That isn’t the kind of do unto others that Jesus meant. So when this suffering child comes to you, abused by the sin and ignorance of others and stiflingly attached to their own sin, what are you to do? The others aren’t before you so unless you seek them out and speak to them, they will always be out there. Nastiness is in the world just as love is. But you don’t need to give the child a “victim” mentality. You can not legitimize the child’s sin because others treat them badly. Two wrongs don’t make a right. What is suicide anyway? It is a lack of hope. It is a pain that sees no way out and sometimes it is a self pity that needs to find ways to focus more on helping the other and less on self. But you know the LIE of hopelessness and you know that in the worst pain there is beauty around us because man is not in charge and God brings His love to us in amazing unexpected ways and you know that focusing on ourselves keeps our eyes and heart from seeing Christ in those around us! Mother Theresa got lepers excited that they were “CHOSEN” to be so close to Christ - to feel a little of the rejection He felt; a little of the pain. Some will say, “I don’t want to be Chosen.” But you can help them see, with His grace, they can overcome all sin and set their sights on what is above. You can lead them to Christ’s healing power. The crux of all sin is a spiritual battle between the flesh and the spirit. You and jm see that some children kill themselves (and yes jm Catholic children have been bullied for their religious beliefs to the point of suicide). This is an outrage to God. He doesn’t rejoice in the death of the sinner but in his conversion. He loves everyone but the answer is not giving in to sin and spreading it. He has something better for every soul. His grace is REAL and LIFE-CHANGING and these kids were not made to be sex objects! They were made for GOD!
Well, the same may be coming soon to the USA, unless the men grow some testicles and oppose the homosexual lobby.
I cant imagine that the school children discuss the gay issoe or ally with such ideas. It is all made up by some interested parties. Why this happens in western society has to be investigated. How can some deviations be legalized or accepted as normal ? I think Catholic Church only understands the problem and that is why it has in the Catechism of Catholic Church says that it is not enemy of homosexuals but homosexual acts are sinful and should be avoided.
I feel all the sex perversions are due to affluence. Some do not know what to do when they have everything. Then comes the thoughts about various pleasures If we think of millions of people in Asia and Africa who do not have a square meal a day, who have no roof over their heads, who have no enough clothes to hide their nakedness and protect their body, we will not indulge in unwanted thoughts and deeds
The Hat Lady said it so well: educate the young (everyone really) about what the Catholic Church really teaches. We love and have compassion for all people without compromising God’s plan for the faithful and fruitful sexual love between a man and a woman. I hope the school in question will do as the Hat Lady suggested.
Rose Kalappurakal - You can’t imagine that youth are discussing the gay issue, is that what you believe?? Read what is being taught in parochial schools at Motherswatch.net in regards to the gay issue. Youth are taught they have the right to choose from a very young age, their preferences. Catholics, or rather claimed Catholics actually are teaching our youth a gay lifestyle is acceptable. BTW, who is responsible for assigning “personhood” to the chosen gay life style? It is as though God makes mistakes, you think, in creating some creatures who will oppose The Ten Commandments? The “Growing In Love” sex ed curriculum teaches ‘tolerance’ for these perversions, Rose. Don’t be fooled into thinking all is well in Denmark.
If Gay people are BORN GAY, then there is something wrong with the Church’s
teachings about them! God has made them what they are, and how can the Church say there is anything unnatural about their being who and what they are?
I do not see that a Gay Club in a Catholic School must be anti-Catholic in any way! Gay students need to feel that they are not alone, and NEED the love and compassion of the Church to guide them! Rejecting them is totally unchristian and contrary to what the Church teaches!
Rich Dykstra – Holy Mother the Church can neither deceive nor be deceived as we pray in the “An Act of Faith” prayer. Obviously, you do not know Catholic doctrine nor that science and religion are never in contradiction of truth and facts. Our Creator is very specific about the sin of sodomy. Do you need the Sacred Scriptures listed? It is the modernists, the progressives for a one world order church who want you to believe that we are to tolerate those sins that cry out for vengeance to God. We must love all people; we must hate what God hates.
Rich Dykstra: There is a fundamental problem with your logic. It is like saying that anyone born with a birth defect has no issue that needs help or needs to be rectified. Just being born a certain way isn’t a guarantee of “natural”. We know that although it is “natural” for a certain amount of children to be born with birth defects, we wouldn’t say that the child has no issues to deal with or something we should just accept and ignore. We look for ways to help them. Jesus did allude to the existence of this phenomenon. In His time many people thought it was because the person or their parents had sinned and sometimes that was the case. Sometimes He said it was because it was an opportunity to give glory to God by a miracle happening and sometimes it was an opportunity to show our love for God because what we do to the least we do to God. A club that supports the homosexual orientation or tries to normalize it is not a blessing to those children. When you read the New Testament, disordered sex is so far off the radar of acceptable that Jesus doesn’t even directly reference it, but He must have privately to His Apostles because Peter and Paul and I think James all speak very strongly about how it is being handed over to the flesh and how sodomites and other sexual sinners do not enter heaven. Catholics must choose the Spirit over the flesh and they cannot do it without God’s grace but He longs to give us the grace! Also you make a huge presumption when you say “if people are “born” that way.” Most, if not all, are groomed or stereotyped or traumatized or coerced etc. There are statistics that have been posted in these blogs that forty percent of active homosexuals have been molested. And many of these go on to molest. There is a reason this is a sin - the incompatibility of the bodies, the rejection of right relation to the opposite sex and it’s life-giving potential, the way it leads to loss of faith and puts those who practice it at odds with the teaching of Jesus and the Bible, the fact that by nature it has a predatory aspect because partners are not naturally discernable, the health consequences especially to men etc. The Catholic schools, if they are following Christ’s example, are loving every child and if one has an issue they are addressing it privately with discretion. Governments cannot make us accept as a good what we know is a sin. Nor can any authority because it is an abuse of authority and we answer first to God. The children are protected from predators by NOT being labelled and lumped together in a club. So many people today expect you to “know” someones sexual orientation just by looking at them. That is just wrong. Also kids go through phases and periods of self-doubt and rebellion and emotional turmoil. They are damaged by being held to one opinion of themselves that could change and does change and they are damaged by those, who in the name of “helping” are imprinting a negative lifestyle on these kids.
Pam, Thank you for your detailed explanation. Can you explain how it is that “personhood” has been assigned to homosexuals and other accommodations and more specifically in parochial education beginning in kindergarten?
Joe, What are you asking? Are you trying to say that stating the truth is calling someone less than a person or are you making another point? Who would label a child as homosexual at kindergarten age? Are you saying that? Because if you are that would be wrong. Teaching sex education in schools is a fairly recent thing. The fruit of it shows it is not a good. Everyone has a cross. We accept it or reject it. We turn to God for His grace to overcome sin or refuse to admit our sin and keep on committing it. None of that makes us less or more a person. We are created as people and there are realities to us. One reality is that we are more than flesh. We also have souls.
Pam, These are the facts about the bullying collective homosexual agenda:
MINNESOTA, June 21, 2012 (LifeSiteNews.com) —Collegeville, Minnesota’s notoriously liberal Benedictine community of St. John’s Abbey is in the spotlight once again as one of its monks urges Catholics to oppose the cause for true marriage.
On June 10th, openly homosexual priest Fr. Bob Pierson, the guest-master at St. John’s, told over 200 people at a Methodist church in Edina, Minneapolis, that “Catholics can vote no” on Minnesota’s proposed constitutional amendment prohibiting gay marriage. Pierson, who styled himself an “LGBT ally”, made his case by selectively quoting the Catechism of the Catholic Church and voicing disagreement with the Vatican on certain issues.
Will this priest be ex communicated? None have been so far who consider it a virtue to tolerate what God opposes.
http://www.motherswatch.net/content/view/12/6/ The “Growing In Love” sex ed curriculum teaches youth beginning in kindergarten that homosexual practices are a personal option.
The peodohile bishops and bishops were homosexuals. When was the last time you heard a homily on the sin of sodomy or the practice of birth control?
THE TRUTH AND MEANING OF HUMAN SEXUALITY, Guidelines for Education within the Family – 1995 document, paragraph 104 never states the practice of sodomy is a sin, (making people believe that God makes mistakes and creates creatures who will practice sodomy, one of The 4 Sins that Cry Out to Heaven). Nothing is mentioned of the studies that “Confirm homosexuality’s dangers – Data up to 2010”.
Am I making my point clearer?
Pam, you asked, “Are you trying to say that stating the truth is calling someone less than a person or are you making another point?”
The practice of this sin that cries out to heaven has now been given ‘personhood’. Current teachings of the practices of sodomy do not warn that it is a mortal sin and is a sure condemnation to the soul.
Joe, All of this is tied into the vision of Pope Leo XIII in the mid 1800’s. He heard Satan asking the Father for a century to prove that mankind would have no faith if God didn’t make them believe. God gave him the twentieth century. Pope Leo composed the prayer to St. Michael the Archangel. So many things happened in those hundred years - the industrial revolution, the roaring twenties and the stock market crash, two world wars, the sexual revolution, the drug revolution, the loss of faith caused by the chaos to families of those revolutions, the emergence of the homosexual revolution and the onslaught of aids, more materialism, the internet and on and on. The priesthood was not left unaffected. The communist party had a strategy to destroy the Church by infiltrating the priesthood with homosexuals. So the hundred years are over and we are seeing the consequences. Today there was a reading on how the Israelites were defeated because they began to conform to the other peoples around them instead of being true to their covenant with God. That’s kind of like what we seem to be living. There really is a crisis of faith where people believe its too hard if not impossible to live as God asks us and where atheism is embraced by many. They do not believe in miracles or that the sacraments and His grace are enough or they think He doesn’t care enough about sexual sins so they don’t work to avoid them. Or they are so attached to the sin they are blinded by it and reject anything that threatens it. They see the failure of some priests and the failure of some individuals and ignore the saints and the two thousand years of witnesses. The answer is still the same. Everyone who believes needs to be holier and we all need to face the fact that sin is sin. It isn’t ok because it’s a heavy cross or because it’s easier to ignore the sinful consequences or because everyone is doing it. It isn’t ok because other elements of society accept it. Some priests are very attached to the sin and want to loose it which I pray the Lord will never permit. And we need to pray alot more. We are suffering, but if we unite our suffering to Christ, He has promised that it will bring down His grace. We have both seen the underbelly of this sin. Not all who commit it are committing mortal sins though because to commit a mortal sin you need to freely consent to the sin. Some kids who were groomed to this from childhood may not be able to freely consent because of the damage done to them and their souls as children, for instance. That is why there is no longer a blanket statement that it is a mortal sin. It is still wrong though. Even in this circumstance though, nothing is impossible for God and these souls can be healed. We need to pray for the Holy Spirit to fill us with love because alot of anger and manipulation and hate gets thrown at anyone who speaks the truth. If we get angry too, we really lose. God is in charge and He hears our prayers. We need to ask believing that He will give us what we ask of Him. God bless.
Pam, I fear you too easily give a pass to those who are corrupting our youth. Tim Drake associated with NCR reported a couple of years ago Catholic colleges and universities are graduating students with less Faith then when they entered. Studies have shown that women in ‘Catholic’ universities and colleges are more promiscuous than their peers. The Cardinal Newman Society comments to it were that we need to get back to the basics. No Kiddin’! The St. Joseph Foundation of Texas canonist lawyers claim the new canon laws cannot reign in the collaborating teachers of sexualized catechetics in parochial schools mandated by the bishops.
Men need to combat men! “Christians are, moreover, made for combat….To recoil before an enemy, or to keep silence when from all sides such clamors are raised against truth . . . is insulting to God, and both are incompatible with the salvation of mankind.” ‘SAPIENTIAE CHRISTIANAE’
http://www.papalencyclicals.net/Leo13/l13sapie.htm
good post pam…the BLESSED MOTHER AT FATIMA said “MORE SOULS GO TO HELL FOR SINS OF THE FLESH THAN ANY OTHER”...in scripture it says the homosexual act IS UNNATURAL…means to me that anyone will know that what they are doing is morally wrong, their own nature will tell them in some way that it is an unnatural act of depravity…the same-sex attraction excuse is just that, an excuse to continue to live a depraved lifestyle..GOD will judge them, i just feel a huge amount of them are in for a rude awakening at their judgement after seeing what OUR LADY OF FATIMA SAID….
and one more thing..GOD cannot create evil…since scripture says the homosexual act is against nature…it is all the result of the actions of the person in life, just as stealing..adultery…murder….GOD CANNOT AND DID NOT CREATE A PERSON WITH HOMOSEXUAL DESIRES…..my advice to you homosexuals is to burn your elton john and queen cd’s, stop watching ellen, and watch and listen to people that act and speak in purity and holiness…..in other words watch EWTN, and turn all the other garbage OFF
Joe, I don’t give any passes, but Jesus already told us what works. This is much bigger than us. This is a true Spiritual Battle. I do speak up and I go on these blogs to defend the truth. How would you do things differently and remain true to Christ? There is obviously something going on and the interpretation of Vatican II documents is part of it. One root of it is the twisted interpretation of the Second Vatican Council document that we are reflecting on for the Fortnight for Religious Freedom. One of the key words in the document on religious freedom is “coercion”. Everyone must freely come to faith and be allowed to worship without coercion. Who could disagree with that? But what do the extreme left of the Church consider coercion? Any form of “or else! ” This has been twisted to mean any effort to instill moral values is coercion. Teaching someone that homosexual relations is unnatural or sinful and can lead you to Hell then becomes “coercion” because there is an element of fear in accepting the truth and one might feel “forced” to do the thing that avoids hell instead of choosing not to do it freely. The mental gymnastics is incredible. (Even though ‘Fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom’.) So now according to this extreme view kindergarteners need to be taught that people can choose who they have sexual relations with, males or females?!!! They are free to choose WHATEVER. But they can’t be told the consequences because that would be coercion?!!! The reality of knowing that sins carries consequences would tilt things in favor of NOT doing sinful things and that evidently is pressuring someone or creating tension between good and evil- not letting them choose freely. What they will never admit is that you can not ever choose freely if you don’t understand the consequences of your choices. These are dangerous times. Hence, we need to stay as close to Christ as possible.
Pam, the 16-V2 documents are written in an ambiguous manner; furthermore, they are not connected to Sacred Tradition but are giving new definitions to truth. You are going against the Roman Catholic Church to oppose the fear of the Lord is the beginning of Wisdom. God said it; that settles it. Homosexuality is sinful and the charitable action is to speak against this sin that cries to heaven for vengeance. Parents have a grave responsibility to point out the sins of the Ten Commandments and that includes the practices of sodomy and adultery. Youth are not free to choose whatever. Parents have a grave responsibility to see that they do not choose whatever. Logic is unknown to kindergarten students. The brain washing techniques of the writers of the evil curriculums put before the eyes of youth such as “Growing In Love” know that they are impeding student’s natural growth and development. That’s the plan, to demoralize youth and to put wedges between them and their families. It is wrong to teach youth they have a right to their choice of sexual gratifications. No one has the freedom to read, print or to practice what opposes the Ten Commandments. The consequences of opposing the laws of God have skyrocketed the numbers of annulments, STDs, suicides, drug and alcohol abuse, abortions, the use of contraceptives, and the UNDER EDUCATION of our youth,——-these things put all society at risk
Young children do not have the capacity to make good choices and they need strict direction from their parents. Your technique is the raising of the new barbarians Randy Engel speaks about in her book, “Sex Education, the Final Plague”.
This is an excerpt from “The Companion of Youth” by St. John Bosco – a very special guidance to families that has been buried and is being resurrected by a priest who is engaged in giving assistance to families:
“But someone might suggest: “We are young, and if we begin to think of eternity and hell, we shall become low-spirited and morbid.” I grant that the thought of an unhappy eternity or unending punishment is frightful and appalling; but answer me, if the mere thought unnerves you, what about actually experiencing it? It is better then to think about your eternal loss now than to endure it hereafter. To weigh the thought now will most certainly preserve you from such a fate in the future.
There is no coercion. God gave each one free will. Families have a major responsibility in raising their youth to fear a destructive final end. But they do it in the manner of teaching how much God loves us by sending His only begotten Son so that we might have life everlasting. Families engage in prayer before the Crucifix, seeing the most amazing love of Our Redeemer who suffered and died so that we might live in Eternity praising and worshiping God.”
Pam, Tolerance is not a virtue. We stay close to Christ by obeying Him.
I don’t understand how starting up a club for homosexuals has anything to do with attacking religious freedom. As long as it doesn’t clearly support acting upon homosexual feelings, I find nothing wrong with a support group or something of that sort.
Dave, As someone who lives in a liberal state, I can tell you firsthand that believing homosexuality is a sin makes people of faith “the enemy”. Laws are passed that trample your rights or are ignored that protect your rights. You are labelled a bigot. Hateful. Uncompassionate. Bullying you is permitted. Promotions go to people who don’t care about the issue etc. etc. But more than all of that is the imprinting on the soul of the child of an identity that may be a passing insecurity. And labelling anyone by a sin doesn’t help them. These clubs are meant to support kids in AFFIRMING this identity. It plays on the emotions of already emotional teens. It is also against our faith to lead kids to sin. (Better a millstone were tied around our neck…) Some sins are easiest overcome when the fewest people know about them too. Predators look at someone with doubts as fair game etc. No good comes of this. There are priests and counselors and hopefully loving parents to guide kids out of this.
Pam, I can somewhat see your point on your comment. But from the homosexuals that I know very well, they say that they always knew they were attracted to the same sex, despite not being bullied, labeled, or anything of that nature. And they also believe they were created that way, but they also realize they are to remain chaste. I realize though that not everyone’s the same, and it may be considered a confusing time for some, as you mentioned. But sometimes I feel a support group for some may be necessary.
Justin, It has been my experience that people who have chosen the homosexual lifestyle cannot not be honest with themselves about this. They rewrite history, so to speak. I have seen it in kids I have coached or were neighbors or friends who were perfectly normal, healthy kids developing in normal, healthy ways and then got involved with a person or program that was particularly predatory. They were groomed into thinking they were homosexual. They were given a steady dose of negative talk about the opposite sex. They were made insecure and then dependent, and they were finally convinced they were always that way. Parents seem oblivious or conflicted because the child is excelling at something or getting alot of attention they didn’t have before. Anyway it has become a party line that one was “always that way” when we know the natural occurrence of homosexuality in a population is very rare. As far as the group support, it is dangerous for the reasons I mentioned above. A caring Catholic who understands normal hormonal chaos and who knows how to disparage melodrama and who loves Christ will lead a child to understand they have a soul cherished by a God who loves them dearly. All sin of any variety has been overcome by Him and He is the way, the truth and the life. Labelling hurts because people are weak and sinful. Putting a questionalbe or negative label on a young adult or child is despicable to me and that’s what a school sponsored group would be - a label.
^ I can kind of agree, but then again I must be one those “rare” cases. Looking at the fact that I’ve developed normal and never got into a group of any nature that talked for or against anyone. And I for example knew I’ve been attracted to the same gender for as long as I can remember and before I knew what sex even was. Even when I personally saw at a young age that everyone was attracted to the opposite gender, I knew that I wasn’t and I just kept that truth to myself. So personally can’t vouch for anyone that says someone was or wasn’t shaped into who they are.
The most compassionate thing you can do for a homosexual is tell them the truth. There is nothing GAY about sodomy (or any of the other acts that even animals don’t engage in! The reason that drug use, domestic violence, disease and suicide is rampant in the homosexual community is because of the vile nature of the acts they debase their bodies and souls with. In Michigan the homosexual activist group Triangle Club pushed for years to have a “anti-bully” law passed. The language they presented was nothing but a “trojan horse” special rights law spelling out who gets treated with higher regard, namely homosexuals,cross dressers, transsexuals etc. When that classification language was removed by the Republicans and the law passed which would protect all students equally - the activists rejected it and waled loudly! They were looking for one more recruitment tool to enlist innocent children into their dark world. Molesting and enlisting young people is the only way they can increase their numbers and political power since they are not “born that way” and they know it.
The most compassionate to be done for homosexuals is to stop financially supporting the new religion of Vatican II that teaches in their schools homosexuality is an acceptable option. See Motherswatch.net and the “Growing In Love” curriculum that sexualizes their teachings and is protected by the rejecting of the 1917 code of canon laws.
Even very conservative priests I know that do not support gay marriages and acts in any way have realized in years of experience that nearly all homosexuals do not choose their lifestyle but rather it is something that is out of their control.
Jack, My guess is you misunderstood or these weren’t holy priests. Nothing is out of God’s control and their job is to lead you to the one who has overcome all sin.
Pam, I used wrong wording on my last comment. I meant that these priests realize that homosexuals cannot choose their lifestyle in regards to who they are attracted to. However, they very much understand that only the individual can choose whether they actually give into their thoughts and engage in wrongful acts. Hopefully that cleared up what I said.
The Catholic school system cannot expect to be accepting taxpayer funds from the government without expecting the government to have a voice in its operation.
The only way any group can legitimately claim freedom from interference is if it is totally funded privately.
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