I am not in Opus Dei, however I find your asking of these questions to be careless and lazy. Why don’t you go to some trusted sources (Scott Hahn for example) to answer these questions? Any comments on this blog cannot be verified. Seems like you’re looking for an argument instead of information.

“THE GUY’S NAME WAS LEONARDO”
- But did he carry a Katana?

Actually want to see this movie when I have a chance.

@Jeff:  careless and lazy?  I’m not doing research, just curious about personal experience.  I tried to make it clear that I wasn’t looking for controversy, just honesty, and I thought people would be more likely to be candid in the comment box than they would on either an official Opus Dei piece, or an anti-Opus Dei site.

“...secular audiences are reeling from the shock of learning that Opus Dei admits members with a normal amount of melanin.  It’s true!  Josemaria was a downright swarthy guy…”

There must be a lot about Opus Dei that I don’t know.  Your comments do indeed come across as condescending. I’ll be interested to see everyone’s opinions on Opus Dei since I honestly know very little.

I’ve had brief exposure to Opus Dei.  I love St. Josemaria’s writings and his knack for putting so much into so few words.  I like to call the Way, the Furrow, and the Forge “swift, spiritual kicks in the butt.”

Two of the theology professors where I attended college were members of Opus Dei.  While I was living in town, I was approached by a member who asked if I would come to a meeting, but I didn’t really have the opportunity.  All of them seemed like good, holy people.  One of the theology professor members is a friend of mine on facebook to this day and I greatly admire him, so if he says it’s a good organization, I trust him.

I also know at least one member who is, while well-intentioned, a little arrogant sometimes about theological orthodoxy (then again, I’d have to say the same about myself).  However, he never brings his Opus Dei membership into it, so I think it’s just his personality and not the organization.

All in all, I’d say I’ve had limited but positive experiences.  I do find myself defending them when people bring up the DaVinci Code, so they must have a bit of a place in my heart.

Where i come from Opus Dei are the only ones who say anything about Natural family planning - if it were not for them - probably would have never had about it

I’ve been a cooperator with Opus Dei for a few years now on the east coast, and it has been a real blessing and source of spiritual growth. I attend a twice monthly circle at a women’s center, receive spiritual direction and have attended several mornings and evenings of recollection. I find it helpful because the teaching is always orthodox and has a lot of real theological content that goes beyond the lack luster, let’s all feel good sermons that tend to be the norm in my neck of the woods. It’s a place where I know that I am going to be challenged, fed and pushed to grow. I am a big fan of having a concrete plan of life - it helps me cultivate habits that help me grow as a Catholic. I like the practicality of the spirituality. I always get something out of it. I also find it helpful to focus on the mundane aspects of daily life as a way to glorify God. What’s helpful is that is not discussed in a generalized do everything with love - we talk about it in specifics. What are ways that I can do this in my particular context and stage of life as a single professional woman discerning marriage etc. Outside of Opus Dei, I had never heard cheerfulness discussed as a virtue and what does that mean as a single professional woman. I think Opus Dei is not a good fit for folks who need a lot of group sharing. There is definitely socializing and sharing, but it’s most definitely not the focus of any circle or morning/evening of recollection. It bothered me at first, but now I love it. I know that the people I’m going to hear talk (a priest of the work, numerary or super-numerary) are going to be prepared and really say something meaningful. For me it’s helpful because it makes me more introspective and I think group sharing can often lead to newcomers feeling uncomfortable and I think we have all experienced competitive group sharing at some point (I’ve seen this mostly among women). :) Activities are gender segregated which I also find helpful - there is no husband hunting and gender specific content is discussed. I didn’t feel any pressure to promote There Be Dragons - free tickets were mentioned and I was given an email if anyone I knew wanted to go. I thought the movie really “got” St. Josemaria.I recognized many of the lines in the film through what I have heard through my time with Opus Dei. There are definitely somethings about Opus Dei that are a little rigid, and come off forced. But, for me, that is overshadowed by the orthodox and rich formation that I receive.

They were pretty big on my college campus, and around here—In college, I tutored in one of their charity programs, went to an OD priest for confession (he was good for young, single women!), and went to a couple of nights of recollection.

I had a number of friends employed by them, some liked them, some hated them.

At the time, we had kind of a running joke about OD because it was the run-up to Jose Maria Escriva’s canonization and a couple people we knew were constantly bringing him into every conversation and handing out his books left and right.

(To be fair, the Edith Stein folk were doing the same thing at the time….  the saint-enthusiasts at our Catholic Student Center were VERY enthusiastic.)

On the whole, I like them.  The spirituality is handy for normal Catholics living in the world, and kind of reminds me of the Carmelites as well.

BUT, I’m skeptical of lay movements in general these days, and I’ve had friends with mixed experiences in the Numeraries.  So while I’m generally positive, I’m unlikely to try to join.

However, I would say that given the all movements who’ve been shut down or investigated recently for cult-like aspects (MJ, IOL, NCW, RC), that OD seems to fall on the NON-Cult side of the divide. 

BUT I’m not sure where all the enthusiasm for movements comes from in the first place—I mean, why (in certain young Catholic circles) is being a ‘movement’ person considered SO SPIRITUALLY SUPERIOR to just going to parochial devotions, working with VdP, etc?  Why does everything have to be so…centralized?

Well, Jeff, You just can’t call the mother of eight young children who writes for multiple publications and knows more about two faiths than 90% of the population LAZY. Unless you’re just a name caller.

It is true that there is no way for Simcha to ensure the legitimacy of comments here, but if you’re trolling, obviously you won’t find a home here either.  I think, for the most part, commenters here wish to enter a sincere dialogue.  Whether she interviews Opus Dei members in person, or asks their views here-all answers are colored by our experiences.  part of what makes us human.

NOW, in answer to your question, Simcha:  several years ago we lived in a university town.  There was a small Catholic book store in the basement of a building near campus.  The first time I went there, I was invited by the owner to take a seat in “the rocker” (the only seat in the store) , where she began to interview me on my Catholic background, my family life, my theological training, etc.  I will admit to being very off put by the interrogation - but she did order the book I was looking for.
  On my next visit-I was shown the rocker again.  This time, I was asked if my husband and I would be interested in ” a meeting”.  It took a lot of questioning from me before I was told it would be an Opus Dei meeting, that it would actually be two meetings-one for the men, one for the women, and that these meetings were by invitation only - no bringing your buddies.
  We went to the meetings! And I must say, we met some very nice people, and learned quite a bit (though, amazingly little about Opus Dei itself). It was apparent that the very liberal bent of “academia” had sparked a somewhat defensive need for Catholic Academics - but I did feel a little like we were in our huddle, patting one another on the back, and attempting to condescend to the poorly catechized.  That I know of, there was no service element to the groups, and no evangelizing, thanks to the invitation only thing.

That being said, we grew to really enjoy the book store owner and her husband, and formed ties with one couple in the group.  We probably would have continued when we moved to our current town - but there were no Supernumeraries here.  Consequently, I would say we never went far enough with Opus Dei to get an accurate view of the universal Opus Dei.
Like any other group/apostulate/mission, it is the human beings (especially local leadership) involved who can either misconstrue and damage , or really glorify God with their approach to “the work”.

I will say that, I have found the “In Conversation with God” books of reflections for the liturgical year very helpful and encouraging to spiritual growth.  I’ve also enjoyed reading about Josemaria Escriva,and don’t believe that his intention was ever to condescend - quite the contrary.  I’ve also found that, as my kids have gone on to college and had professors who are Opus Dei, they have learned a great deal from them,and have found great mentors in them.  Also, while I originally thought the separation of male and females ridiculous (partly, I suppose, because My husband was gone a lot and we needed more couple time)- I now am convinced of the value of groups where men can encourage other men in their roles as strong Catholic Men, and the same with women. It’s not like the two groups are offered a different degree of apologetics - just a different approach - equal to the intrinsic dignity and beauty of each sex.

You didn’t ask for a comaparison (nor a long winded answer, but your getting both), but my experience with Opus Dei was far superior to that
with Regnum Christi (which my husband termed “multi- level marketing for the wealthy Catholic “).  Again, this could be because of the individuals involved more than the organization itself (and we have several relatives in Regnum Christi, but none in Opus Dei).

The formation from Opus Dei has been a HUGE blessing to my family.  The plan of life and formation has helped my husband become so strong, humble, cheerful, and focused.  For myself, reading Josemaria Escriva’s writings has been so helpful and has called me higher than anything I’ve ever read. Socioeconomically, we are a lower-middle class family, and it’s true that many involved with Opus Dei are upper middle class.  I don’t know why, except that I can see how it appeals to a “go-getter” temperament, very well suited to cholerics—though not exclusively by any means.  Though I’ve only been involved with the formation for a year or so, it has been one of the greatest blessings we’ve encountered.  :-)  Just my two cents.

We were discussing class and lay movements last night, and my husband postulated that one of the reasosn why RC is so big in Mexico and OD has a much smaller presence there is that Mexico lacks a strong middle class, and the OD values of attention to your work and doing even menial jobs for God just doesn’t resonate with the upper classes there.  (and the grindingly poor really don’t have TIME for a lay movement…. they’re too busy trying to feed the kids….)

Anyway, just a random dinner-table speculation from the other night.

Also, FSM—I’d imagine PART of the difference between RC and OD would have to be the intentions of the founders.  Also, RC exists to serve the needs/plans of the LC priests, while in OD priests are ordained TO SERVE THE MOVEMENT.

Also—I’ve noticed OD affiliated priests do tend to be pretty good homilists—I used to think it was a ‘natural talent’ thing, but over the years have realized that the whole ‘work hard, attention to detail” aspect of the spirituality actually comes into the homily writing—that these ‘naturally good homilists’ have copious research, multiple drafts, and careful notes.

I attended an Opus Dei all-girls high school (I attended 8-12th).  I had a very mixed experience!  The school was elitist, the staff was elitist.  The girls who attended were normal and fantastic, most from excellent Catholic families.  Many of those girls have gone on to start their own families.  Some have gone on to work for major organizations in the private and public sector.  Some are famous (one was on television yesterday!) and some are married to famous people (a regular Fox News correspondent), etc.  The theology was sound and orthodox and we learned a great deal at that school.  We had daily mass and our priest was regularly available for confessions.  He was an excellent “no-nonsense” kind of mentor and we all appreciated him. 

That said - there were some cons.  The elitism and the very secretive nature of Opus Dei was weird and off-putting.  The only way to get into “circle” meetings was to be invited by the staff.  We heard stories of sexism among the numeraries.  Husbands who cheated were well-respected super-numeraries.  We were taught that, as wives and mothers, we had to provide breakfast, lunch, and dinner every day or we were failing in our wifely duties.  (I actually agree somewhat with that sentiment, but to term it as “failing” seemed a bit harsh.)  In 11th grade, a friend of mine was caught reading a book written by an ex-Opus Dei member that was unfavorable to Opus Dei and the book was confiscated and she was given a huge punsishment.  However, Opus Dei was never pushed on us nor was it mandatory in order to get good grades.  The exposure was always outside of school in private and the school was more focused on the Catholic faith and Church rather than the Opus Dei aspect.

While I would never join Opus Dei (it’s just not for me), I would happily send my children to the Opus Dei school and I would trust that they would teach and guide my children toward the Church.  I think that some of the odd people and the elitism turned me off from Opus Dei but there are a lot of people I respect involved in Opus Dei and it works for them.  It is just not for me!

BTW, Simcha… why should it be obvious to your readers that you’re NOT Opus Dei?  I mean, there’s nothing that would flag you either way in most of your columns. OD people can be funny too…..

i dont know much about opus dei other than a wonderful opus dei priest who is a wonderful confessor and truly has helped me progress in faith

I’ve attended Opus Dei retreats, had spiritual direction with priests of Opus Dei, attended evenings of recollection organized by Opus Dei, and have even been a Cooperator with Opus Dei for several years now. I’ve never had a negative experience with any of it; I’ve always received sound direction and advice that has helped me fulfill my Christian vocation. My wife has attended evenings of recollection and retreats as well and found it worthwhile.

The basic point of Opus Dei is that our lives–our daily activities in the world, our work–can be offered to God and become a means of growing in holiness. Marriage and family is taken as a serious vocation. We are called to live for God not just on Sundays, and not just when doing churchy things, but with our whole selves, even in the ordinary and the mundane tasks of our particular situation in life.

@Deirdre - oh, I dunno.  I think my paragraphs were in a different order when I originally wrote this post, and I originally first said, “I don’t know anything about OD” and then said, “Obviously I’m not a member.”  Sorry about that!  (I’ve also had a spate of email lately from people who claim to know ALLLLLL about People Like Me, so maybe I feel like I reveal more than I actually do!)

I don’t know what to say….I am still realing that there were no albinos in the film…...that can’t be plausible, can it?

Heh. Clearly, from your writing, you’re a third-order-Dominican-wanna-be.  Well, that, and the great books thing.  And hating badly-made-movies-about-firefighters.  As if you could have GOTTEN the Jerk to sit through that!  (I bet he’d sit through Backdraft…...)

Actually, some day when you’re too lazy to blog you should start a “Assumptions about Simcha” thread…...It would probably be amusing…....

Joe—They had to lay off all the albinos because of the bad economy—the sunscreen bills got too much.  Instead, they’ve decided to employ lizard-footed freemasons who eat unbaptized babies for breakfast.  In the modern west, they’re much easier to feed…..

Hi Simcha,

I’m the same CV who posted (rather overheated) comments on the Dragons movie and Opus Dei over on your blog, so maybe you’ve heard quite enough from me. But since you asked some specific questions I thought I’d weigh in again (The Jerk isn’t here too, is he? Looks around cautiously :-)

My experience has been nearly identical to Danielle’s (@10:17 am) I’m a cooperator and I try to attend a monthly circle (which is an hour-long discussion led by a female numerary) with other cooperators and a monthly evening of recollection (a couple of meditations led by a priest, ending with Benediction. There’s also an opportunity to go to Confession if you want to). I try to go to a weekend (silent) retreat once a year, which is basically a longer version of the evening of recollection (with more meditations, quiet time for prayer and reading, and daily Mass). I should point out that I’m under no obligation to attend these activities and quite often I am so bogged down with child and work activities that I can’t get my act together to go.

But…I always benefit from the experience, and I grow in my spiritual life, when I DO make the effort to go. It’s basic Catholic stuff…prayer, spiritual talks, opportunities for Confession, encouragement to say the Rosary, etc.  I have a chaotic, normal life with my kids and husband and we are fortunate that we belong a great parish led by a wonderful, orthodox pastor. But the guy is simply too busy to give his parishioners the kind of reflective spiritual direction that is available through my local OD study center (I guess I am lucky that we have one in my city. Not every city does).

As Danielle says, Opus Dei provides regular opportunities for me to cultivate habits (prayer, more-than-once-a-week Mass, spiritual reading) that help me grow in my faith and hopefully be a better wife, mother, daughter, worker, etc. I’m inclined to be lazy and disorganized when it comes to building these crucial activities into my life on my own and that’s the God’s honest truth. So I’m happy those opportunities are made available to me on a regular basis. I NEED ongoing formation, period. And I think it’s important to note that I have never experienced any pressure to attend. When I show up they are happy to see me and I’m never criticized for how long it’s been since I last attended. And the only time they ask me for money is once a year, a couple of sentences in the context of an annual one page newsletter around December. I’ve worked in marketing and fundraising for years and frankly I think they might be a little TOO reserved when it comes to asking for donations.

In short, the whole experience is fairly low key and more “intellectual” (if I can use that word) that the hugging/group share kind of thing that might appeal to others. My husband and I are both professionals but the Opus Dei people I have encountered really run the gamut in terms of occupations and social class. I know attorneys and college professors as well as store clerks and at-home moms. At the last (social) gathering I went to I remember talking with: a male fast food restaurant manager, a male judge, a female psychiatrist, a female who makes jewelry in her home, and a female speech therapist. Runs the gamut. I certainly wouldn’t describe any of us as “rich.” Truly, anyone and everyone is welcome. I have had friends and family turn down my invitations to check it out because they have preconceptions, have only read about it in The DaVinci Code, fear they’ll be pressured, etc. That’s too bad, in my view.

Regarding the Dragons movie promotion, I was invited to a free prescreening and there was a good deal of positive anticipation among the Opus Dei people I interact with regularly. But it was more a situation in which you were encouraged to share your recommendation with your family and friends to see the movie (if you liked it enough to do so). Again, no pressure…pretty low key. I was offered flyers to pass out at my parish if I wanted to do that. Considering that the other “Catholic” movie opening the week after Dragons is “Priest” (about the priest vampire!) it’s kind of a no-brainer to help promote the better movie if you ask me.

Early in my experience with this organization, when I was still trying to figure out what it was and whether or not I wanted to be part of it, I had the opportunity to talk with an Opus Dei priest (that’s another thing…the OD priests are just extraordinary human beings in the mold of St. Josemaria. No kidding..they are a tremendous gift to the Church). Anyway, this particular priest told me that “joining” Opus Dei itself is not the point of what they do and why they are here. The point is to grow in your Catholic faith to ultimately grow closer to God. Opus Dei is just one path toward that goal. It’s not the only one.

Works for me.

Thanks for the opportunity.  First of all, Opus Dei is not a member organization in the sense that you fill out an application and get a membership card.  It’s a personal prelature of the Catholic Church.  The name means Work of God.  Opus Dei does have an organizational structure though that includes a Bishop in Rome, centers, priests and lay people who provide support.  Its mission is to help people turn their work and daily activities into occasions for growing closer to God, for serving others, and for improving society.  It’s all about living holiness in the “middle of the world” as St. Josemaria describes it.  I find it to be the most simple way to try to become a saint that there is.

I was introduced to Opus Dei many years ago and am a Cooperator in central Missouri where we have a growing group of men and women who are trying to live our lives according to the teaching of Jesus.  We receive formation through meetings and living a plan of life that includes daily prayer, Mass, frequent confession and an annual retreat.  I’ve had the opportunity to visit Opus Dei centers here in the U.S. in St. Louis, New York and in Belgium, Germany and Italy.  The priests I’ve met are some of the most joyful I know of.

Opus Dei has had an incredibly positive influence on my life.  My wife and oldest daughter also participate in Opus Dei retreats and feel like its a very important part of their spiritual development.

I am amazed to see the amount of misinformation that is circulated on the internet about Opus Dei.  It’s not a secret society.  There’s actually nothing secret about it.  You can learn more at the Opus Dei website: www.opusdei.org.

I personally have had great experiences with Opus Dei over the years in the MA/NH area both as a teenager growing up and as a mother now.  For girls especially they do a great job of making spiritual growth FUN.  Camp Mattakeesett in NH is a fantastic experience for catholic girls.  Some catholics are put off by their additude towards excellence, (the objection I’ve heard is that many members send their kids to Harvard etc rather than conservative Catholic colleges) but really, why would God have given you your own special talents if not to develop them to the highest level and make a difference in the world?  Members of Opus Dei do often strive to send their children to secular universities, but a Harvard grad has a much better chance of making a splash than someone from Magdalen, for crying out loud.  They want to make a difference IN the world, not apart from it.  With the proper spiritual direction, those college don’t offer risk, they offer potential.

Also, in my personal experience (and yes, I know there are many poeple who have had terrible experiences with members of OD.  But remember that each of those members is human, too) the Work’s additude towards developing personal talents leads to fantastic repect for each individual.  They encourage you to be an artist, a doctor, a mother, a teacher—whatever you are you should do it and do it completely.  I have met so many happy, interesting, and wonderful women through the Work.

And BTW I am not in Opus Dei on any level.  I am not even a cooperator even though I have gone to a circle for years (although my kids’ schedules have prevented me from going regularly for the last couple)

My dad, grandparents and several other family members are involved in Opus Dei. They love the organization and as they are all extremely holy people and role models in my life, it’s always been clear to me that they do very good things. I have had quite a bit of exposure to the organization over my life and it’s been almost all positive. I have been to a couple of their retreats and they were very good. I have never met a priest of the work (as my dad calls them) who was not both a great person and an excellent priest. Always so joyful and so knowledgeable and orthodox.  Great combination. I also LOVE the writings of Josemaria, the idea of sanctifying your daily work has really shaped the way I try to live my life. I love the spirituality in general, it’s very traditional, very reverent. I have never really gotten more personally involved because I am not one for groups.

That being said, I remember as a kid (middle school/high school) being kind of turned off by some of the more pushy members. But I’m sure a part of that was my personality. A few of the women I met who worked for Opus Dei (they have a name, numeraries maybe? I forget) seemed a little unbalanced, but that was definitely the exception, most of the women were wonderful as well.

I have always heard OD compared to RC, but I never really saw very many similarities in the movements.

Here’s the comments I left on the blog :

My now husband (then boyfriend) was seeing an Opus Dei priest for his spiritual director, and the man during the first session, pumped him for information about me. Then the priest told him to dump me because I had a sad childhood (my mother died when I was seven and my father abandoned me — I was raised by my grandparents) and because I had made some poor sexual choices several years before I even met my now husband.

Needless to say, my wonderful husband basically said, “Thanks but no thanks, crazy” and we got engaged about six months later.

I’m sure not all the priests in OD are nearly as horrible at spiritual direction. Just my only experience with them.

Oh, and also, one other thing. My husband’s best friend in law school had been very involved in OD before he met his girlfriend (now wife) who was also involved in OD. But apparently once they both discerned marriage and got engaged, nearly all of their OD friends dropped them. I only found this out when I asked my DH at their wedding why there were only about 5 friends of theirs (including us) attending their wedding. Of course I don’t know the full story, but my husband’s friend indicated it was related to OD.

Also, one of my husband’s other friends in law school is a member of OD and lives in one of their houses. He is a wonderful guy and has been a good friend to my DH. It seems like a mixed bag, just like anything else.

Deirdre:  Why Simcha could have said “Obviously I’m not a member” - Opus Dei members NEVER bring up Opus Dei spontaneously.  They say, “This great mom’s group I belong to…” or something like that.  And if the topic did arise, they’d say “The Work,” not “Opus Dei.”

I taught at one of their schools for a few years.  I found them orthodox and not at all sinister or arrogant as some consider them.  We gave a pretty good education, I think.  On the other hand, there were some real faults and blindspots that I believe were directly caused by the structure and spirituality of OD:  (1) Excessive focus on professionalism, discipline, and schedules, sometimes to the detriment of some important human qualities like listening and making time for people as people. (2) Excessive respect for outward career success - we pushed nearly all our students toward engineering, medicine, etc., whether it suited their temperaments or not.  (3) Institutional and personal habits of “discretion” that amount to secretiveness, though the members don’t tend to think of it that way - “discretion” becomes so ingrained in them they forget that normal people consider it normal to be open with each other.

I like . . . love Opus Dei very much, even though I’ve never been a member. The members I’ve known seem very orthodox and reverent, and their exercise of these qualities seems genuine and disinterested, and not the least bit about themselves - “how orthodox we are”, “how reverent we are” (which I have encountered among some other groups, not Opus Dei.) The Opus Dei members I’ve known have been remarkably well-balanced, grounded, solid, not bitter or resentful, not with a chip on their shoulder.

The way of Opus Dei is demanding. This is not a “Sunday only” group, or a group that meets once a month and requires nothing of its members beyond that. The spirituality is intense and it is rigorous. Too rigorous for some, I think. I think persons who fare best as members are the uncomplicated, fairly thick-skinned, task-oriented, go-getter types. Persons who are sensitive, introspective, impressionable, perhaps a little melancholic and given to scrupulosity, the type who get knocked for a loop easily, will likely find Opus Dei not to be a good fit. 

To the heterodox, Opus Dei seems a group bent on taking the Church back to the 16th century (which it’s not!). Those who are orthodox, but who think religion should be “all about me”, or those who live in a state of bitterness about the state of the Church in the world today, Opus Dei will probably leave cold - will seem too bland, too otherworldly.

Anyway, I think it’s a good group; I’m glad it exists, and I love Saint Josemaria a great deal.

I only know one family with Opus Dei members and one assistant member or something like that.  The member family that I know is composed of very kind, loving people who helped my wife and I through a very difficult time in our family.  I don’t know where we’d be without them.  In my experience, Opus Dei members truly are the salt of the earth.

Back in the ‘90’s, I was invited to become part of a Mothers’ Circle which met monthly for a talk (reflection), confession, and social get-together at a Catholic church. Our children were cared for in the nursery while we ladies met.  I enjoyed it tremendously and learned a lot.  I was surprised and insulted, though, when I found out after a year that the ladies in charge were all Opus Dei and this was an OD thing.  I couldn’t understand why they had been so secretive; what did they have to hide?  I still cherish the friendship I have with the ladies, but their methods regarding the OD “club” leave a bad taste in my mouth. And now having had experience with friends in RC, I am highly skeptical of movements and have taught my now grown children that we already belong to the best “club” there is (the Church) and there is no need to seek validation in any other group. (Oh, and my kids have all gone to a Catholic university where they were shocked by the attitudes and actions of the holier-than-thou movement kids.)

I am a cooperator in Opus Dei and my husband is a supernumerary. A parish priest in Opus Dei brought us into the Church. I was an athiest child raised by a former priest, and my mom was a lapsed member of RLDS (now Community of Christ). My husband was a Methodist who never went to church. For my family, I attribute my great marraige, family size, and parents’ conversion and current very strong Catholic faith to Opus Dei. For me, it helps me to be who I am without a lot of extraneous crap. I’m not much for showy, flowery displays of the faith, which I tend to see as phony or just plain boring. And I’m not very charismatic. It takes a lot for me to even show up to ANY kind of church service. Spiritual direction through Opus Dei keeps me on track and concentrates on the basics: frequenting the sacraments, prayer, working on a specific virtue, offering up our work, and “beginning again,” as they always say, because there is a tendancy in all of us to give up when we’re bored, plagued with doubts, or overly busy.

That said, I’ve met my share of people I don’t necessarily like in Opus Dei, just as I’ve met those throughout the Church I don’t necessarily like. Frankly, many drawn to religion or religious activities can be a little weird, don’t you think? And yes, sometimes they’re dorky or socially clumsy. I can see in the comment about the lady and the rocking chair, someone was trying very hard to make a friend she could help spiritually, but she didn’t have any sense. I’ve often thought they need a crash course in Southern hospitality, or they just need to relax a little. They’re told to make friends to help bring others closer to Christ—not to bring them into Opus Dei, like they’re recruiting for a baseball team. So often they’re just regular people sort of grasping at straws at how to meet others, how to help others, how to make the world a better place. The apostolate is somehting we joke about in my family. When There Be Dragons came out, my teenager, who also attends an Opus Dei circle, kept play-acting with me: “Hello, have you met my friend Jesus Christ? Would you like to go with me to a movie? Bring a friend!”

As for cooperator’s meetings being “secret,” they’re not. They’re just for people who actually want to sit there and have someone else read them the Gospel of the day and give a talk on a virtue. I’ve seen non-cooperators come to meetings and be bored to death, never to return for any kind of formation whatsoever.

Those are my experiences. Anyone who wants to dismiss or badger the organization because they’ve met goofy people or heard of bad experiences sometimes are the same who might steer clear of the Catholic Church because of a few bad priests or nuns.

I know a number of people in Opus Dei.  I love the principles and the discipline, but have never felt called to it.  I often go to OD priests for confession as I always get the sense that they are “listening” to me.

I look at Opus Dei much as I look at Monks in Monasteries or Nuns in Cloisters…it’s not for me, but I am SO grateful that they’re there.

Sometimes I think I’m a “cafeteria Opus Dei” member as I love the idea of family, work, discipline, holiness…I just don’t feel called to “join”...

I learned about Opus Dei not long after my conversion in 1980. All my experiences have been positive, and I would seek out an Opus Dei priest for spiritual direction if I moved to a new city. One of the most amazing spiritual talks I ever heard was given by an OD priest during the first Catholic radio conference, when just about all we had were ideas and hope: We were on the San Francisco ferry, gathered in the bow, and he spoke about Christ walking on the water, and Peter’s effort to join Him. It was a powerful message about stepping out in faith and trust—and Catholic radio, including instituting “Catholic Answers Live” (which is why I was there) blossomed amazingly over the next few years.

I am a supernumerary.  I thank God every day for the work and for the life of Saint Josemaria.
For more info, you could have very easily used these sites:
http://www.opusdei.us/
http://www.josemariaescriva.info/
http://www.escrivaworks.org/doc/josemaria_escriva.htm
http://www.youtube.com/user/josemariaescriva
http://www.youtube.com/user/opusdeienglish

Saint Josemaria, ora pro nobis!

Since nobody else mentioned it yet- what scared me away from Opus Dei is the apparently common practice among some college chapters of self-mortification.  As an autistic with acne and some rather bloody and painful stimming to begin with, more self-mortification based on religion would probably be a mistake.

Opus Dei is a strange organization.  I’m thinking of joining it (I owe my conversion 21 years ago Fr. Sal Ferigle, one of the three priest friends of Josemaria Escriva who brought OD to the U.S.).  I haven’t wanted to be manipulated however.  Below you can see my struggles.

They’re a very structured and orderly group.  In this way they carry the stamp of their founder (the secrecy of which they are accused may be a holdover from the days of Spain where to be known as a priest was to be targeted for death).

As far as the structure and order for which OD is famous, St. Escriva has a saying somewhere to the effect that to put something off is the same as not doing it at all (my cue to look to the sky and start whistling).

I’ve always been struck by this one question one asks oneself in Opus Dei’s daily Examination of Conscience:  “Have I wasted anyone’s time?”

There is built-in spiritual direction in OD, by not just priests but numeraries as well, taking one in hand.  That’s the part of me I would hesitate (and I think many do) to give up, to feel I have put myself in someone else’s hands…  Yipes.  “Certainly they’re stupider than I am… And what boring advice, do I really have to become so fake?”

What would the opposite of all these things be?

I shall see what the actual reality is, if I join… I think the fear is that an outsider could shape us to be fake, absent, and thus in a horrible sense, Invisible.  One of the parroting many, a robot.  Into someone who can’t really care about or know the essence of the very ones we’re trying to have join us!

Do I have it wrong?  What might the opposite of that be?

OD is quite intellectual.  The talks… So many varieties, on so many topics.  What great confessors the priests are!  In the main, the priests are a cut above, if I’m allowed to say that, which I’m probably not.  Anyone researched how many converts OD priest Fr. John McCloskey has made?  A former Wall Streeter who worked at Citibank and Merrill Lynch?  I emailed him about assuming he was going to take a stab at Eliot Spitzer!  :-)  Thus far:  Senator Sam Brownback; publisher Alfred Regnery; Dr. Bernard Nathanson; journalist Robert Novak; Lawrence Kudlow; Mark Belnick; White House spokesman Tony Snow; international pro-lifer Austin Ruse…

Certainly if you send your kids to a secular college, the presence of OD could be nought but a saving blessing.  Intellectual as the Jesuits, but completely orthodox.  Priests and numeraries generally come from the professions.

My husband considers this numerary business to be a sort of “nuns in the modern world” type affair.  It’s said that St. Escriva never celebrated the Novus Ordo.  What could he have thought of Vat II?  But OD is a way of being a vocation hovering at the midway point between the world and the convent/monastery.  We have a traddie order by where we live, and if you are a member of OD they won’t let your kids go to their school.  (Female numeraries = nuns with makeup - SCANDAL!)

I find the members and priests deeply good, very intelligent people who bring a lot of good (and a lot of kids! the priests are a great encouragement to this!) into the world.  But from what I’ve seen, they insist on perspective:

I remember Fr. Richard Rieman ((“Fr. Dick”) - another of the 3 OD priests which St. Escriva first sent to the U.S., soooo funny!) giving the assembled ladies at an Evening of Recollection some ribbing about their secret consoling thoughts (in the midst of mothering sooo many kids) of their personal selfless sanctity… You would have had to have been there, it wasn’t mean.  It was funny, because almost everything that comes out of Fr. Dick’s mouth is funny.  He loves these women; he knows they are exactly where they should be.

I remember Fr. Sal’s funeral in Boston.  Fr. Dick stood before the packed Church and told a couple of stories:

1) He and Fr. Sal were at dinner sitting next to each other at a rich potential donor’s house (Hey, Jesus stayed with and converted the rich!), dessert time, lovely flans in front of them.  As the hostess was returning to her chair so all could begin (one waits at each course for the hostess to begin, membuh, ladies? :-), Fr. Dick looked down.  Fr. Sal had smooshed his thumb into Fr. Dick’s flan, making it appear to the assembled who were waiting for the hostess to lift her fork, that he had already started.  Fr. Dick could only smile lamely, finish this thumb-besmirched pie while enduring the emanations of Fr. Sal’s inner glee.  As they say in the Work, “Offer it up!”

2) Fr. Sal and Fr. Dick are in line to greet a very high Church dignitary.  In sudden panic, Fr. Dick whispers to Fr. Sal who is in line in front of him, “How shall I address him”?  Fr. Sal whispers back, “Don’t worry, do what I do.”  As Fr. Sal reaches the dignitary, he coughs, and slips back behind Fr. Dick – again, inner glee.  Ha ha ha!  Boys WILL be boys.  (Would women ever forgive each other for this?)

Till his funeral, I never knew Fr. Sal was a practical joker.  He taught erudite classes after Mass in the Boston area - these classes produced some first-class matches, in marriage as well as friendship.  He is the first Catholic priest my husband and I had ever spoke to in our lives (we were raised Episcopalian).  We were matched up to him by some people in OD who were “midwifing” our conversion.  At our first meeting Fr. Sal told my husband and me, “I’m just a simple country priest!”  (In actuality he had studied nuclear physics at the University of Navarre.) 

We had been married 10 years, no kids.  I had fully intended to become Catholic and NOT go off birth control pills and never confess this because I didn’t consider it a sin.  In 5 mins I was confessing all this to Fr. Sal.  We wanted kids, but I told him I also feared going off another med BESIDES the pill—but due to a fetal heart condition its use could cause, I would have to. 

He said, “Don’t worry, just go off it.”  He said that 2 more times in countering my fear-filled objections.  I went off it, and was fine, and have been off it ever since.  I owe the fact that I finally HAD kids to Opus Dei!  Fr. Sal at that first meeting wrote the name of an NFP teacher at a local Catholic hospital and gave it to me.  No pressure, no excess enthusiasm, just the names.  Almost offhand.  We used the NFP to achieve pregnancy.  My son was born the next year on the Feast of St. Joseph.  (That day, my friend, a supernumerary, called her husband at the OD center in Cambridge and said, “Tell my husband that Paula had her baby, and Father Sal is RESPONSIBLE!”  Ha ha!  Fr. Sal enjoyed that story.)

The women in OD give each other support and like Simcha, have a lot going on in their lives!  Who can begrudge the fact the members have a yearly retreat they can enjoy and benefit from, while their children are managed by friends, so they are able to leave all but the sucklings behind?

What’s really strange is you’d think such a “conservative” (read: orthodox) group would be composed of all stalwart Republicans, but not so.  I know of at least one Democrat (a numerary) who remains of that party (she says) to keep it from losing its conscience.

The strangest experience I had with Opus Dei:  I had a friend with metastatic breast cancer who was a supernumerary in OD.  She’d given me a prayer card with Josemaria Escriva’s picture on it (before he was even Blessed, if I remember rightly) and I was doing my daily prayer from the card (I was a Cooperator of OD at the time… presently I think of myself as an uncooperative Cooperator…). 

I was thinking as I prayed something to the effect of, “Ah, what a friggin’ pain.  Day after day.  What possible good can a prayer like this have???”  At that moment there was a THUMP on the L-inside of my R breast.  And I mean, a THUMP.  Definite, physical, sudden.  Just short of painful.  I wish a camera would have caught my face.  I thought, “WHAT the…?!?!”  Later I couldn’t refrain from asking her, “Is your cancer by any chance right here (indicating)?” 

She said, “How did you know?  I’ve never told anyone.”  I explained what happened.  Of me of little faith.

And that’s what I know about Opus Dei.

My brief experience with Opus Dei involved being invited to prayer meetings by an attorney friend who was a member.  It was nothing but solid, true Catholicism, wise spiritual counsel and growth in the sacraments.  I only got done because I moved away, but would consider being involved again.

Simcha, you are brave! I thought you asked about a very touchy topic in an open and honest way. And I am sure you will have plenty of comments to leaf through as you wait for that bun to start rising!

I like St. Josemaria’s writings, and have benefited from evenings of rec and retreats. I have friends who are cooperators, numeraries, and supernumeraries; I also have friends who have been closely involved with The Work who have had bad experiences and now deeply dislike OD.

My opinion, then, is this: Opus Dei can either really help someone, or exacerbate already existing unappealing personality traits. The trouble is, sometimes the person involved in The Work thinks they’re being helped, when really, they’re being obnoxious/harmful.

Two things I wonder about:
1. Can OD be taken out of the (European) Spanish culture and remain intact/helpful?
2. Was OD really meant for women?

I really am very glad you’re asking about this! I have seen many faithful, educated, earnest Catholics become very ugly over Opus Dei. We all know it’s not supposed to be this way, but *why* is it this way?

Several years ago while exploring ways to deepen my faith, I considered Third Orders such as Dominicans whereas I stumbled on an article about Opus Dei & St. Josemaria. I knew that OD had a presence at the parish I attended at the time. I was also drawn to the idea of achieving a deeper sanctity while living out my regular life (my occupation and being a father/husband) in the world. That really appealed to me because; as I’m sure you know…who has the time for anything else? So I sent an email to OD requesting info and they provided contact info for the Work in the area I lived at the time. A “super- numerator”, he held a men’s meeting at his home every month called a “Circle”. I was a “participant” and would have become a “cooperator”, but I stopped attending for various reasons. Then I moved to a different state last year where there are no Circles nearby. Nothing really spectacular happens during the Circles, the sponsor recites the reading from the Mass for the day; then a short spiritual talk. We examine our conscience; say a short prayer and that was it. To go any further you could not join, per se. You were encouraged to attend daily Mass, attend retreat (yearly) and evenings of recollection (a one night retreat). And I think that’s where the possibility for you to be asked to discern a call to the prelature as a cooperator or super-numerator (married) or numerator (vow of celibacy). My impression is that the emphasis is on professional people. That’s who they are typically looking for at least where I attended. In retrospect, I admire most everything about the Work, but for what I did there I don’t really see how I benefitted. Maybe that would change if I continued on. They definitely have some rascals though, like FBI agents who spied for Russia, but they are human.  I don’t know but that’s my 2 cents worth.

I am not a member of the Work but I have had a strong connection with them over the years, starting with a professor at university who just had that “way” about him that made one wonder, he had such joy and depth of faith and understanding. He was open about he and his wife’s affiliation with Opus Dei but he didn’t make it a big deal, I presume most students just thought of him as that consistently fair (ie, no shortcuts) professor who always wore a suit and tie to class. :) Where I studied there is not a very large community of Opus Dei members or apostolates, and nothing might have come of this other than a vague positive awareness of the name of the group except that when I studied in Rome some fellow students went off in search of the tomb of St. Josemaria - I recalled who he was (thanks to the aforementioned prof!) and decided to tag along. I ended up feeling a strong connection to this saint and the people of the Work during that year in Rome, one of the priests became my confessor and director and there were quite a few lay members there that were very friendly and welcoming - never pressuring - and kind of “took me in” during the year, inviting me to go with them to cultural events and conferences and things, and I went often to the daily Masses at a couple of the centers there because they were nice quiet Masses, said in Latin quite unpretentiously, and the homilies were great. On returning to the States, I have met a few more members, but a lot more ordinary people who are not really affiliated but who feel a connection to the Work and enjoy going to the various spiritual offerings they provide. I have felt comfortable enough with one of the members to meet up multiple times for some spiritual advising (NOT any formal direction, that is made clear!), it is wonderful to have someone like that who is well formed and grounded, who is able to objectively listen and offer advice for your given situation without having any kind of “authority conflicts” on either side. I believe this is a common practice in the Work itself, to have both an ordained confessor (of course) and a lay mentor of the same gender - in general, I think this is a wonderful idea, though I do not know enough about it in actual practice for a full member.

So that’s my “resume” of experience I suppose, in a nutshell. I have to say what has always attracted me most to Opus Dei is the *balance* that I see as the foundation of its spirituality, both in the writings of St. Josemaria and the practices of its members/leadership. There is great emphasis on doing what we can, no matter how small, but doing it as best we can for the greater glory of God, and not fellow man. I admire how little Opus Dei members, for the most part, talk about their affiliation, it is not that they keep it hidden, but that they make no effort to promote it. People just know them (hopefully) as great workers who have good lives outside of work, and those who ask them about it will hear more. The bad side of this is that the ones who DO talk about their membership are, maybe, the ones that people such as yourself have a bad impression of… you may not even know about many members whom you encounter frequently at the grocery store, gas station, lawyer’s office, or hospital because they don’t noise it about, they just do their job and greet you as they would Christ, as anonymous as you’d like. I know I have been shocked at how many of the people I know one way or another I see here or there at Opus Dei events. I never would have guessed if I hadn’t seen them there!

I also admire Opus Dei because of the great care that they take with the liturgy and the sacraments of the Church, and apparently the formation of the priests of the Holy Cross (the “internal” group of Opus Dei priests, ordained from the ranks of the male lay members) - there is no other group within the Church, or even diocese, that I have as much trust in as this group. If I am traveling, I may run into misguided diocesen or religious order priests of every stripe, but after traveling around the USA and all over Europe I have yet to find an Opus Dei parish or priest who is, shall we say, wonky. What a relief it is for me to go somewhere new and find out that there is an Opus Dei parish there—I know that confessions will be plentiful and done properly, and Masses will be often and celebrated reverently, and that the church will look like a church!

I have been an Opus Dei cooperator since the mid-1990’s, and my feelings regarding it are rather mixed.  On the one hand, the larger messages of sanctification of our work and our daily lives is something that very much “clicks” with me.  The idea that a lay person can become a saint is something that St. Josemaria Escriva was criticized for proposing at first, but has turned out to be very prophetic in light of Vatican II.  When I first encountered the Work in college, it gave me some direction and structure in my spirituality that I, with my relatively weak formation at the time, was lacking.  However, I have long had concerns with how it operates, and those concerns have grown over time.  I do believe, based on my own experience, that members are seldom straightforward when it comes to answering questions about Opus Dei or their own apostolic intentions. I do not like having to wonder, when a member contacts me or invites me to something, what that member’s real intention for me is, for I have learned that it is quite often different from what is stated.  Friendship is something that I believe should be genuine and natural, yet Opus Dei encourages us (but especially members) to make friends with people with the intent of drawing them to the Work’s activities, getting them to accept spiritual direction from the Work, etc.  There have been times when I have been invited to lunch by a member, ostensibly on social grounds, only to have that member begin to ask me very personal questions about my interior life and faith practices.  I only learned years after this first happened that my answers might very well be shared with other members without my knowledge or consent.  To me, this sort of friendship tactic is deceptive and a violation of the Work’s stated principles, and yet I know that my experiences are not isolated instances.  I have also seen members organize events for people not familiar with the Work - events involving activities such as sports, camping, etc. - whose stated intent would be social but which would REALLY take place to “teach virtue” or to find people who can be invited to the Work’s activities.  This sort of thing sounds like an attempt to “trick people into sanctity”, which I believe, once again, violates the virtue of sincerity.  Additionally, I have been disturbed by how little I have heard (in the many years of talks and meditations I have heard on various virtues) regarding material charity.  Given that Opus Dei does appear to target those with higher incomes and education levels (or who are at least likely to attain higher incomes), this seems a strange omission.  While I have been asked to give more to Opus Dei (and, recently, to give financial support to showing “There Be Dragons”), I wonder why the Work - which is SO well-endowed financially - doesn’t give more attention to encouraging material support of genuinely-needy charitable causes.  I could go on here with plenty of additional observations, but I have come to believe that, while the larger message of Opus Dei for our daily lives is an important one, the way in which the Work operates sometimes seems to confuse, obscure, or undermine its own apostolate in that regard.  As far as being pressured to promote “There Be Dragons” . . . YES!  We were very much pressured both to promote it among our friends and to contribute financially to getting it shown where we live - even though we had not yet seen it at that time, nor had the ones who were pressuring us.  Quite frankly, that in itself made me lose all appetite for seeing it.  In sum, I tend to think that the Work is probably good for those who are hungry and well-meaning in their faith, but who have not had a lot of formation or structure in their spiritual lives.  One should be made aware first, however, of how the Work functions so that they’re not thrown off guard or discouraged unduly by some of the apostolic tactics that they might then encounter.  Just as the Carmelites needed the great saints of the sixteenth century to clarify, direct, and “clean up” their order (an order founded many years earlier), perhaps Opus Dei will have some leadership someday that will help to do the same for the Work and bring its practices more in line with the goals and virtues to which its members aspire and that are featured in its own literature.

I am happy for people who have been helped by others. I can’t stomach OD as a group, though. I have met some of them, in grad school and the university where I teach, and if the ones I met are representative (they may not be), then I can say with confidence that I am temperamentally unsuited for such a group.

But then again, I am temperamentally unsuited for most groups, and my “cult antennae” are highly sensitive.I find group dynamics oppressive after just one hour of socializing. I am melancholic, introspective, introverted. But there’s something even worse: I find people who are deadly serious all the time about their religious practice, their daily routines,and especially about their precious clothing, absurd. It’s just absurdly funny to me, and it seems to me that that’s part of the whole OD world: an obsession with trivialities like cufflinks or the crease in their trousers, passed off as “faithfulness in the small things.”

[Simcha here:  I’ve deleted part of this comment, as it violates the “direct experience only” rule, and was gratuitously uncharitable.  If you can find another way of expressing the ideas in these missing lines, please feel free to repost.—Thanks—final line is original poster’s own ending:]

And I find the men sexist. I really, really do. But please feel free to delete my comment and publish a Scott Hahn proclamation instead.

@Scard Bei - I too have long been perplexed by the “cooperator” term. To me it sounds too much like “collaborator”. Also, I can’t think of “numerator” without thinking “denominator”.

Ok, after scanning comments I guess I am the first member of Opus Dei to comment.  I love “the work” and yes, that what it is often called on the “inside”.  It is all about getting closer to God, hands down.  Do people have bad experiences?  Yes, sure, I did even back in college when I was stalked by a numerary.  But you know what?  I called my mom, who was in Opus Dei, and said this was out of control, and she called someone and next thing I know someone I knew as a child came to visit me at college and wanted to know what was happening.  Long story short, the poor woman who was indeed stalking was moved out of college apostolate and the new woman who started visiting my University became the backbone of a thriving group that brought many people closer to God.  Opus Dei is like any family, it is like the Church, it has sinners and jerks and really holy people and a bunch of people who are trying really hard to do the right thing.  They follow what the Church teaches, which is why I think some people who tend to affiliate with the “I’m more catholic than the pope” idea don’t like OD.  I remember once being on retreat and the priest made an announcment before mass that the kneelers (customarily used for receiving) were not to be used because the Bishop has just declared that the norm for receiving communion was to be standing, so that’s what we were going to do.  End of story, bishop is in charge.  Opus Dei also takes a lot of things seriously- liturgy, Humanae Vitae, the church’s teaching on homosexuality, that tends to alienate more left leaning catholics.  All in all, I love my vocation in Opus Dei and it helps me turn my normal life into a prayer and occasion of loving and serving God.  That, and I am a lazy you know what who needs to be kicked in the pants regularly.  No, nobody kicks me, but the constant stream of formation is very helpful to me to remember where I am and where I need to be.  One last misconception I wanted to talk about- Opus Dei talks about apostolate of friendship so that you are inviting people you know to activities that you benefit from on a one on one basis, that’s why they don’t do bulletin announcements generally and blanket invites to things other than big talks or masses.  Oh and about the “OD” group that was not an OD group- please don’t assume that people were trying to take over your life and recruit you for Opus Dei.  We are encourage to spread doctrine.  I know that once I started a Catechism reading group at my child’s school with another Super Numerary but “Opus Dei” per se was not involved in any way except in me asking my spiritual director, “hey do you think I have time for that?”  It was my baby, not Opus Dei’s.  I was inspired by what I had learned in Opus Dei formation to learn more doctrine.  That was it!!  That’s my two cents!

I’ve known only one member of Opus Dei and he was a good person—hard working, devoted father.  A little strange, but who isn’t?!

And I also love the works of Father Escriva!  You can tell he was a very loving and experienced priest. 

And cooperator is probably a term translated from Español.  I don’t think it is creepy to be serious about being Catholic.  It is kind of refreshing in the face of secularism.  Gives me courage!

Thanks for the responses so far, everybody.  I hope I have been judging the comments fairly—I have deleted one part of one post so far, because I did say I would be monitoring closly.  Thanks for playing nice, everyone!

It looks like most people who are Opus Dei regulars have pretty much covered what Opus Dei is all about. So, I will just add a little note about my own personal experience. There are monthly Opus Dei men and women’s recollections held at our parish that I have tried to attend regularly. The recollections consists of opportunities for confession, a reflection on some aspect of living holiness in our daily lives and the obstacles we may encounter, quiet time for prayer, and adoration.  I have found the recollections very valuable in my spiritual growth. The Opus Dei priest that led the recollections was the kindest, sweetest man, very recollected and wise. Some of the best spiritual advice I’ve ever been given has come from him, simply because it was very practical and particular to my own vocation (wife & mother) and struggles. As another person mentioned, the recollections are gender-specific, so in the reflections we are challenged in our growth in holiness as women - single, married, mother, etc (and vice versa for men - my husband goes to the men’s recollections).  If I had to describe what Opus Dei was all about to someone, in a nutshell I’d say that it’s about helping ordinary lay people become saints.

Here’s what Wikipedia has to say about the definition of a “numerary” and “supernumerary” (these are general definitions):

“Numerary is a civil designation for persons who are incorporated in a fixed or permanent way to a society or group: regular member of the working staff, permanent staff, or member, distinguished from a supernumerary. The term “numerary” and its counterpart, “supernumerary,” originated in Spanish and Latin American academy and government; it is now also used in countries all over the world, such as France, the U.S., England, Italy, etc. A supernumerary is an additional member of an organization. A supernumerary is also a non-regular member of a staff, a member of the staff or an employee who works in a public office who is not part of the manpower complement. Thus, a supernumerary could be an extra member or a temporary employee in addition to the permanent staff, or permanent members of a society. There are supernumerary actors, knights, ladies, professors, police, ministers, judges, military personnel, and writers.”

These terms may sound odd to many of us but obviously they can be attributed to the Spanish roots of The Work.

The Free Online Dictionary has this to say about a “cooperator”:

“To work or act together toward a common end or purpose.”

In Opus Dei, cooperators are not members but do support and pray for The Work and don’t even have to be Catholic.

Pretty straightforward, actually….

Simcha-
I’m a big fan of yours, but what’s with your recent trend of criticizing your fellow Catholics? 

“As I said, my experience with Opus Dei is limited, but mostly negative.”

“There are some saints that no one likes, because they were unpleasant weirdos. ... For me, St. John Vianney is one of these repellant types.”

@Helene:  not a recent trend, just a bad habit that comes out when I’m tired!  Will try and curb that (although in the context of the saint post, I think the Vianney comment was perfectly legitimate, since the point was that we don’t HAVE to like everyone).

I had one professor in college who was a member of OD; he was a great professor and a good man.  Other than that, my contact has just been by reading some of Escriva’s writings.  I really like him and think he has a lot of good things to say to encourage me in my vocation of marriage.

On the subject of oddness in movements in general, my sister is a vowed consecrated (Apostolic Oblates) and their formation for both the consecrated and “lay” members is very solid and normal.  They certainly aren’t out to quash individuality, but they also try to make sure that people who can’t use their spirituality as an *aid* rather than a crutch or a club to beat others with don’t take vows or promises. But they (similar to OD) have the charism of promoting the universal call to holiness and so they offer many activities for many people.  There are a lot of people who are regulars at these events - and they are welcomed with open arms and hearts, which is new for many.  So if you start coming to AO events, you will run into a fair number of people with Aspergers, Tourettes, or just social oddities b/c the Oblates do make one feel as though they’ve been waiting all day just to have the pleasure of your company.  That unconditional acceptance is hard to find at most parish events, social groups, or what have you.  So my take is that some of the fringe types one meets through some lay movements is often due to that real attempt to love everyone and try to bring them to God to rather than writing them off as too weird.

World’s laziest cooperator here, with only good experiences: No pushy recruiting, no sanctimony, no mean priests; just solid teaching and formation.  The members I’ve known have all been very practical and genuine.  When I moved, I was at my new parish for more than two years before I found out that some of the new friends I’d made were in OD.

Opus Dei is especially good at at least partially reforming a certain type of jerk  I could see that.

As noted earlier, you don’t have to “be a member” of OD to benefit from its apostolate.

Some may find it too liberal, however, in that the women supernumeraries (and I believe even the numeraries!) are permitted to wear pants.  So there’s that.

I’ve been a cooperator of Opus Dei for over 11 years in the Midwest.  I am alwaysconflicted about the organization. 

Pros:  OD priests are excellent confessors - wise, kind, insightful.  The OD priests are good at teaching the faith.  I’ve been on retreats and have attended the afternoons of recollection and have always found them inspiring, gentle and rigorous - cool combo. I agree with St Josemaria’s “plan of life” (covered above).  I am a member of parish that has a liberal bent and I have found it helpful to have OD events to send my fellow parish leaders to for education about the Faith.

Cons:  Not a place to make friends.  The organization and the members are very socially awkward.  At the “circles” there is no food and no opportunity to talk with other members.The conversations can be unbearably unnatural and weird.  It may be different for people who come to OD in college - but in the almost 12 years I have been attending OD stuff I have yet to make a friend through OD. Lots of acquaintances, though, which has its own benefits (As an aside, once I realized that OD is not social or place to make friends, I enjoyed it more.) In general, the members of OD are terrible at the apostolate of bringing people to Christ.  They tend to congregate at the same parish and are rudely vocal about other parishes, programs, speakers etc.  They really don’t venture out.  It is not a warm, inviting organization.  Sadly, St Josemaria speaks at length about the apostolate but I have sometimes wondered if the members (outside of campuses) are interested or even capable of bringing people to Jesus let alone The Work.

Re “There be Dragons”  I was pressured to get people to the movie - which left me feeling used and frustrated.  I am particularly good, by the grace of God, at bringing people to confession, retreats, talks etc.  I’ve always been this way - long before my involvement with The Work.  Some of the super nummeraries know this and really put the pressure on me. Considering they ignore me most of the time, I felt used.

Finally, my DH is convinced that part of the reason we’re ignored is because he doesn’t make enough money.  (Which is crazy since he makes almost $200k)  He feels that he is not influential enough to be worth the attention of members of OD.  Isn’t that sad?  (btw, my dh is not lacking in self confidence).

I’m glad you asked Simcha.  I’ve thought about telling an OD priest my observations, but any faith organization can easily throw it back into your face saying “you just don’t have a calling or you aren’t a really members so . . .  etc.  I hope some OD priest and lay members of influence read these comments with an open mind.

I’m happy to see all the good experiences with OD related here.  I’ve had my fair share of the good and the bad, and think that overall it is a good organization.  The retreats were always good, the confessions were always good, and it was a good place to find people who were similarly orthodox.  I had a terrible experience with a numerary who was giving me “spiritual direction” but in point of fact she was trying to get me to make a HUGE LIFE CHANGING decision that would have ruined my life.  A friend of mine had a similarly bad experience with the same person and we both concluded that she must have been going through something personally to advise us in such a bad and pushy manner.  There are at least three people that I know who were advised by OD priests to marry or date a particular person, despite personal preferences to not marry X.  It was just weird and caused a lot of pain (and no marriages).  It was also weird that the people involved followed the advice - or tried to. 

I think that Opus Dei also became a lot more transparent after the Da Vinci Code since so many people were interested in the real organization - and I was impressed with the way that OD responded with honesty and forthrightness.  I feel like the organization has become a bit more accessible and normal since that time.

Hi, Non-Opus Dei member here, but someone who has had some experience with some members, priests and the like.  I’d like to “like” Chuck’s post at 11:49AM and echo his comments.
I think its important for us to recall that Opus Dei and so many other movements provide methods and structure for practicing the Christian life.  Truly living the Christian life can be difficult if you’re serious about it and for so many women and men their local parish simply does not provide the support and structure they’re seeking and yearning for to help them counter the difficulties of living a virtuous life in today’s world.  So many who seek the help of movements such as Opus Dei find the added support and encouragement they need.  Sometimes that takes the form of particular disciplines and methods which seem strange to “outsiders,” and sometimes disciplines and methods can prove so successful for individuals that they become enthusiastic to the point of considering the methods somehow essential in themselves.  That, in my opinion, is when some adherents to particular movements seem offputting to others.  But, the reality is that at the core, what these zealous folks are expressing is the joy of the reality that they’ve found a method to seek deeper union with Jesus Christ and greater virtue. 
This or that method may or may not work for you, but that doesn’t invalidate its effectiveness for others, nor does it change the fact that we are all being called to something always greater and always deeper.

Attend an annual Opus Dei retreat for men in Texas. Always a positive and renewing experience.

Mrs M,

That’s impossible. I, not you, am the world’s laziest cooperator!

St. Josemaria would be so proud.

@A regular…: the Circle I attended always had food and usally beer! Most of the lads were very cordial with each other. I was the outsider because I lived in another town in a different parish and even different time zone but never made to feel like i was an interloper. Also, a given was that you never openly criticized a priest or parish. THat was something I was once gently chided for. So it seems, maybe they aren’t all consistent in that way. Or maybe thats the way it is in that part of the country..

@ Bob- I’ve heard that on other parts of the country food & drinks are served etc.  I hosted circles for a year and I was told by a couple of different OD members that I could ONLY serve water.  It was so against my grain to open my house up to these generally lovely women and only serve water - no coffee, no soda, no iced tea etc.  I was told that they didn’t want it to be a burden—but it felt weird and so inhospitable.

At I realize I was probably harsh about members inability to bring people to Christ or the work—but last year I invited four friends to be cooperators (all said yes) and between the three OD members I dealt with NO ONE knew how to enroll someone into being a cooperator.  They either had never done it or it had been so very long they forgot.  And three of the members have been members for 20 + years.  I was flabbergasted . . . .

And, all that being said I do love the formation I have received and regularly invite men & women I know to the days of recollection.

Just a comment on the food thing…

FWIW I’m frequently served perfectly lovely food at the OD women’s center. Either they provide it themselves or we bring pot-luck dishes to various events/activities. Plus coffee, tea, wine, you-name-it. 

I’ve been to events at the men’s center and the food is less “creative” but hey, they’re guys. They do the best they can :-) The men DO spike the eggnog at their annual family Christmas party so I give them points for that.

Inhospitable they’re not! This one is a real head-scratcher…

Don’t forget CV, other people might have different experiences with OD than you have had.

I went to OD activities through high school and college. My parents are both OD cooperators. My experience has been mixed. The writings of Josemaria Escriva have influenced me, especially on the sanctification of work and everyday life. I really try to live this philosophy at home and in my career. I have met some very good people in OD. I have also met some judgemental people, too. In my local chapter of OD, I found that once I got married, I was expected to quit my job and stay home. I was also expected to have many children. As a woman who works outside the home and has not been able to have children, I found myself not easily accepted. Some of their spiritual directors are very good though, and it is nice to find priests who specialize in giving spiritual direction.

Food, glorious food ... It’s my understanding the circles are supposed to be very quick, to-the-point gatherings. Because they’re generally held in a home or family setting, they don’t want to burden everyone in the house. For my husband’s supernumerary circles, where a few men get together as late as 7 p.m or 8 p.m. once per month, we have to clean up a little bit. My kids and I go to another area of the house and watch TV quietly. Snacks aren’t served, because, frankly, they would put me out, and I’m not going to make hors d’oevres after feeding and taking care of five kids all day. For these once-a-month gatherings, it would get old and even expensive pretty quickly. Keep in mind that these aren’t parties, by any means. Just formation. Consider families with supernumeraries, teenagers, if they’re involved, and cooperators, like us. Families who have circles would be in the professional catering business. But there is an exception here: For the cooperator circles in our area, we do have shacks. We get together only about four times per year, rotating between houses, and it seemed appropriate to provide for the ladies who are kind enough to drive two or more hours to our area. AND we like to eat and visit, and we basically are friends and have made friends with others who have joined us over the years. I might add, in all of the circles in our area, nobody ever sat us down and told us to take a sinister oath that we would never, ever feed anyone associated with Opus Dei who comes into our homes. Also, someone once gave me a piece of advice concerning Opus Dei (or any organization, for that matter): If someone gives you advice, it’s just advice. You don’t have to do everything suggested to you. People aren’t robots, and I think most people in Opus Dei recognize and celebrate that.

Okay, I read the first 3/4 of the comments and skipped the last several.  My take on Opus Dei is that it can be a good organization but I don’t think it’s for me.  I have seen some dear friends of mine grow in holiness and virtue through their involvement in Opus Dei.  For them it has brought a discipline, structure, and support network in their family life.  I went to their Evening of Recollection once and everything was authentically Catholic and not offensive.  There was a talk in the chapel, followed by confession, followed by a talk given in a smaller group of only women.  However, everything was extremely sedate and intellectual.  I am much more of a group-sharing, expressive, hug-people and sing kind of person.  Also, I had some bad experiences at a Legionary school growing up, so I’m pretty gun-shy around anything that seems to similar to the Legionary/Regnum Christi environment.  The Opus Dei focus on being diligent in your work and ordering you life brings out my tendency to completely ignore my emotions and try to fit myself in someone else’s mold.  So it’s not for me, though I think it’s doing a lot of good for people for whom it is a good fit.

1. I am a married member of Opus Dei. It has greatly affected my daily life in that instead of just cleaning house or taking care of my child (my daily work), I now see those tasks as ways to sanctify my life, to become a saint. I think the best thing about it is that it helps regular people to struggle to become holy. I’ve learned that we’re all called to be saints, whether you’re a mom or a doctor or a truck driver. It has helped me in learning about my faith, gaining formation, and given me a daily structure in which to help keep me on track with my prayer—guideposts, as you will, for when I don’t “feel” like praying. I think the biggest misconception is that members of OD are all one “type”. This is definitely not true—there is a wide diversity within the Work.
2. I don’t have bad experiences that are ‘gossip worthy’. Obviously, neither the priests or the lay members, married or single, are not perfect. I’m definitely not and I’m sure I’ve made mistakes. ;)
3. There are not certain kinds of people for whom there is a match. It IS a vocation, but God picks who is called. Like I mentioned earlier, there is a wide diversity. As for certain classes, there is diversity in this as well. I am living proof that you don’t need to be a millionaire to be in OD. ;)
4. As for pressure to promote the movie: no. We talked about it and were given email links to the movie site (not officially from the ‘main office’ or anything), but what we did with that information was of our own free will. It was seen as a good opportunity to share St. Josemaria’s life with others in a positive way and so, obviously, many of us WANTED to share it. But no pressure.
A good resource if you are interested in studying the lives of people in Opus Dei: a book called Women of Opus Dei (editors: M.T. Oates, Linda Ruf, Jenny Driver).

I’m interested in Colet’s question: “1. Can OD be taken out of the (European) Spanish culture and remain intact/helpful?”  That’s what I wonder too.  All that emphasis on your schedule and diligence as a Christian duty - it seems to me that a Latin person living by that spiritual discipline can end up achieving a pretty good balance.  But apply it to us Anglo and Nordic types and you get uptight workaholics.  My colleagues at the OD school where I taught fit this theory: the Mexicans and Spaniards seemed far more normal; the North Americans tended to be rigid and brittle.  You could see the tangible burden they carried around with them all the time: staying after work to chat for 10 minutes was a sin against their schedule; not being perfectly groomed as a model young professional at all times was wrong because it made Christianity look bad.  Ironically, it made them worse at their work as teachers.  I and another non-OD colleague did the lion’s share of extra-curricular stuff at the school, because the numeraries and supernumeraries had so many tightly scheduled daily obligations that they couldn’t take on any project that might involve open-ended time commitments - like school plays and such.  Even helping kids who needed extra tutoring was a problem, since the OD people had to be back at the Center by whatever o’clock on the dot.

I was in Opus Dei for 25 years. I was young Catholic looking for support and I found it in Opus Dei. But after a while I just couldn’t take it anymore. It took its toll on my family and particularly my children.  I spent far too much time running around to circles and trying to do 2 hours’ worth of norms each day.  You are taught to keep your spiritual life to yourself, you don’t talk to your husband and it’s too much for children. Instead of family spirituality, it’s centered on the personal.  It can be a wedge rather than a help in marriage, especially if you talk to an unmarried numerary about your marital problems. I am fortunate to have very good marriage, but that is despite not because of the advice I got in the chat.
In Opus Dei a vocation doesn’t develop, it’s sprung on you at an opportune moment and you are pressured to join then and there. After all if you wouldn’t want to “lose” your vocation.  Numeraries give spiritual direction in the “confidential chat” but they have no qualifications or training to do so.
A 24 year old Numerary who just finished grad school cannot have a clue how to direct a forty year old married woman with seven children.  And you can be sure that anything juicy you tell your chat person will be repeated to the “director” and up the chain of command. If you are not in the Work and you speak to a member about your spiritual life, you can be sure they are discussing you in their chat. It’s just how it works.
If you decide to leave later on you kind of stop existing. If you think I’m wrong ask a numerary what ever happened to So-and-So and see their reaction. Many, many people who leave the work leave the Church - untold casualties they don’t subtract for when they tell you how many people they bring closer to God. My brother was one of them.
Did you know that Opus Dei is not the only organization that calls their founder “The Father”? The Moonies do too. Go figure.
All over the US on Saturday night members of Opus Dei rented out movie theaters to offer free showings of “There Be Dragons”.  They didn’t really tell people this. Everyone pretended they randomly decide to see the movie and just happened to meet fellow members there. I hesitate to use the “c” word but they are trying to use this movie as a recruiting tool. You may say, “They never tried to recruit me.” Well, maybe you don’t fit the bill. If you are rich, polished, well-dressed or intellectual you are on their radar. If you are handicapped, eccentric, old or poor; well, sorry you don’t.
Why the fictional portrayal of St. Josemaria? Well maybe it’s because during the Spanish Civil War Josemaria Escriva let his tonsure grow out, donned street clothes and hid while nine out of ten of his brother priests were martyred.
And of course what other saint built a marble crypt for himself before he died? It sure as heck wasn’t St. Francis or Mother Theresa or our Beloved John Paul II. There were a lot of shenanigans surrounding JME’s canonization. I can’t get into here but it’s all out there on the net. (Don’t check up on this if you are in the Work -it’s not allowed)
I am not saying the members are bad people. Good people are attracted to their message. I excused all the weird things I saw because I kept attributing them to human beings etc., etc., but nothing will ever change for the good in this organization.  I’m saying it isn’t what it appears. So … go to days of recollection if you they help you or a retreat –if you can afford it. But don’t join and be careful. Sometimes the priests are a little cavalier with the seal.

Thanks, Simcha, for launching this lively exchange.  I am a numerary member - not because I “fit” or because “it’s for me” or because I am “looking for structure” - but because God called me to be with Him and serve Him in this family of the Church - and in my case, through apostolic celibacy. How does it affect my life? Well, I try to make this call penetrate all I do - with the aim of trying that all I do is with Him and for Him. Because I find the stress comes when I try to do things for selfish reasons or in front of the eyes of other people, and forget that I need to lean on God instead - and that the real model is only Jesus Christ. St. Josemaria said we should do things for the most supernatural of reasons - because we want to (and when we want what is really good - we want what God wants!)  He wrote a prayer to the Holy Spirit that includes the words - “I want what you want, when you want, how you want, and as you want.” So I - and thousands of others all around the globe - try to do things for love of God, blundering along with all of our frailties but just trying to keep getting back up again. I feel so lucky to have the help of spiritual guidance, affectionate family support and encouragement to study and spread the great doctrines of our faith. I am not elitist - but I do feel my vocation is a blessing for which I can never be thankful enough, and I ask God’s help for all of us to be faithful, and that others can share this divine vocation.  In Opus Dei, yes, we have so many resources for prayer, reading and helping friends face questions of faith and ethics in daily life.  I was raised a devout Catholic but so far no one else in my family is also in Opus Dei, although I do know of many families with several numerary or supernumerary or associate or assistant numerary vocations within the same family.  And as far as how Opus Dei is lived in different cultures - it is a phenomenon: what can only be seen to be believed is the same family spirit in people is alive in the five continents in persons of different professions, health and family situations and diverse cultural backgrounds. I know, I have experienced it, and heard it commented by so many others as well - here and abroad and in the streets of Rome when half-a-million thronged for the canonization of St. Josemaria. We are all trying to help each other, and we know we have to struggle to live by the standards Jesus Christ set for all Christians.  We see our vocation as living out the Christian vocation of all the baptized within this family of the Church. By the way, I have not seen the famous movie yet (though have heard varying comments from those who have), but I am glad that is sparking conversations like this one. The best way to get to know Opus Dei is through personal contact, but there are troves of information at www.josemariaescriva.info and opusdei.org
Best wishes to all!

Not in Opus Dei but I take advantage of the Catholic Information Center.  Opus Dei runs the Catholic Information Center here in DC.  From what I understand the Diocese asked them to do so many years ago.  It’s on “K” Street a few blocks from the White House and surrounded by many of the high-powered special interest groups (both left adn right). 

It is a spiritual oasis for many Catholics working dowtown in the District.  I’m glad its there for daily Mass and confessions.  I always know the homily will be pertinent and there won’t be any liturgical abuses.  Thanks to Fr. Arnie, Fr. Bill, and Fr Stetson when he was here.

My husband and I have come to know a lot of Opus Dei families over the years, and increasingly, the variety of people we have encountered has broken down a lot of our perceptions about OD.  So, I have mixed feelings about it.

Many of our acquaintances do indeed fit the stereotype of elite members of the upper class, and among them, there seems to prevail a pretty naïve and Calvinistic idea that moral goodness is tied somehow to material wealth—that because they live “the right way,” God has blessed them with riches.  As a result, we have heard a lot of cringe-worthy comments over the years reflecting the related idea that the poor or lower-classes are not just financially bankrupt, but morally bankrupt as well… As other posters have mentioned, there doesn’t seem to be much recognition in OD that Christ ministered to and associated not with the crème-de-la-crème of society, but with its outcasts—the little, poor, sick, morally degenerate, etc.  So a lot of times, even as a fairly well-off professional, I’m left cold by OD.

In recent years, however, we’ve gotten to know many more simple, middle class families connected to OD who are very down to earth, and mostly defy the stereotype above.

In general, however, we have also felt “hoodwinked,” as other posters mention, by various groups and programs that have been advertised as basically secular-but-wholesome activities, and which have later turned out to be Opus initiatives (hint: if they focus on “the virtues” or “character building,” it’s OD for sure).  These programs were actually OK, but the whole disingenuity of their marketing left a bad taste in our mouth later. 

I would LOVE it if just once, once of our OD friends would say, “The Work has been amazing in my life—you should check it out,” or “Opus Dei is sponsoring a meeting here next week—you should come!”  But nothing so straightforward ever happens, and I resent being manipulated through more circuitous invitations…In this respect, I think OD could learn a lot from Communion and Liberation, which always makes their sponsorship crystal clear when organize an event in our city…  I think it’s these sorts of tactics—seen as signs of “discretion” by many in OD—that give the erroneous but inevitable impression of secrecy to outsiders…

Finally, I find OP theology—including the writings of St. Escriva, a bit superficial and pedantic—or at least it lends itself to a superficial approach, i.e. a sort of goody-two-shoes, all-my-ducks-in-a-row Catholicism that puts great store in appearance and social approval.  The great Swiss theologian Hans Urs von Balthasar once called The Way “a little manual for Boy Scouts at the upper level,” and I have to concur.  That’s not to knock what people find genuinely helpful in OP;  (and I have to admit our family has received some wonderful blessings through the intercession of St. Escriva) but I do want to point out that there is a wealth of much deeper theology to be found in the Church.  Most OP members I know are not at all comfortable around other spiritualities in the Church that have decidedly different charisms (i.e.  Franciscan or Benedictine or a more contemplative approach) and often fail to find them of much value, perhaps because these don’t lend themselves to the rigid, black-and-white worldview that I think sometimes becomes a tendency in OP.  My impression is that many of our OP friends remain a bit puzzled why orthodox Catholic who wants to grow in his or her faith and seek holiness would ever choose a path different from Opus Dei…

Last point: I think that with all their focus on seeing things in a “supernatural light,” there is a tendency among OD members to forget or hastily circumvent the NATURAL first—i.e. to at least acknowledge the normal, human approach in a given situation.  A lot of the comments above by OD members reflect this.  I think it’s helpful to remember that God chose to build grace on nature, and that faith in turn builds on and completes human reason—in other words, if you want to be a Christian, you have to be fully human first.  It’s OK to acknowledge that a vocation or the pure grace of God is filtered through impure, quirky and mistake-prone human means, and to address how those means could be adjusted.

Re: Helene’s comment about criticizing fellow Catholics. I admit, I didn’t see it that way at all, Simcha - though I’ve no doubt you are very tired these days! It’s completely fair to ask questions we have about different parts of the “here comes everybody” Catholic Church, whether they are about a group that seems to attract misconceptions or on whether real Catholic women wear pants. Just keep it charitable, as seems to be happening with this post.

I’ve really enjoyed reading the discussion so far. I keep being struck by how similar are the philosophies of St. Josemaria and St. Therese.

I’m not that a huge fan of Opus Dei, since I am more, let’s say, “traditional”. I oppose some things on Opus Dei, such as the absence of confessionals in the men-driven centres, and the “secretiveness” of their “full-fledged orthodoxy”. They seem not wanting to show they pray in Latin, make use of mortifications, all these things traditional in the Church.

But I have to say, Opus Dei has made me a better person, for real.

From the sacraments to the thoughtful meditations, the value of the work, finding God in your job, in your workplace, in your family. How to make common suffering actually mean something to you and to God. This is really fantastic.

Other thing great about Opus Dei is that, unfortunately, they seem to be an oasis of orthodoxy in our modernist societies. If you want to hear mass and not a pop show, go to an Opus Dei centre. If you want a priest to talk to you about personal morals and not political issues, go to an Opus Dei centre. If you want a priest to hear your sins in confession and not say “ah, this is not a sin”, go to an Opus Dei centre.

Jean raises an important question in my mind- does Opus Dei contain a protestant-like component of health & wealth theology?

I too worry about the idea of the supernatural overwhelming the natural- which is why I joined Knights of Columbus and, since being scared away in college, have never attended an OD meeting.  Knights of Columbus and Catholic Daughters seem better places to be for those of us who already have a good contemplative life- and seek to put that contemplation into action.

TKC!

I liked a number of comments here. Before entering the Legion, I had not really run into Opus Dei. Now, as a Legionary Brother, my perspective is a little different as I obviously can’t join. From the members I have talked to I got the impression (and maybe this is just my own generalization) that the primary difference between Opus Dei and Regnum Christi was that Regnum Christi is Christ-centered and Opus Dei is Father-centered (by extension, one could say charismatics are Spirit-centered). If anyone is interested in seeing the comparison, read my blog post from last month <a>http://live.regnumchristi.org/2011/04/each-called-by-name</a>

@Deirdre Mundy You stated: “Also, RC exists to serve the needs/plans of the LC priests, while in OD priests are ordained TO SERVE THE MOVEMENT.” I think both spiritualities seek to serve the Church and the world (we would say the “Kingdom of Christ” but Opus Dei would use a synonym) beyond the members serving priests or priests serving the memebers. I have personally never thought that members of RC are here to serve my needs/plans or any other Legionary’s, it is a collaborative effort. I can admit that by accident some of us, even myself, may have given that impression at times and I would apologize on behalf of whoever gave you that impression.

Yours in Christ,
Br Matthew, LC

I’m reading some of the comments to try not to be repitious. I think some of the complaints might be more sociological than theological and organizational. Remember that OD charism is very Spanish in origin, at a time when being secretive meant staying alive - and keeping the faith meant being discreet . . . that was years back, of course, but I don’t think you’ll ever see OD without that personality. Also, personal honor *is* a big Spanish thing . . . and so the things that as one commentor rightly pointed out - there is something there about how one presents to the world . . .I don’t think it’s bad, or shallow - but yeah, I understand why that won’t be a sustaining spirituality after awhile. You have to go beyond Escriva.

I think there are thousands (hundreds of thousands maybe?) who have very directly benefitted from OD - and so there is a kind of allegience that builds, even without any kind of formal membership. I would whole-heartedly endorse allowing OD evenings of reflection, etc into the parish. There is nothing to fear.

Whoops! I don’t know what happened, I tried to put HTML on the link and it ended up looking a little odd.
Maybe if I just put the link the without HTML, the register computers will fix it for me.
http://live.regnumchristi.org/2011/04/each-called-by-name

All my school years were spent on an Opus Dei school, so I owe them almost all of my religious formation. When I see the voids in catholic doctrine that so many catholics have, I feel grateful for the formation I was given. When I start worring about not getting into heaven because I’m not in some missionary activity like mother Theresa, it helps to remember the Opus Dei philosohpy and remember that we all can please God by offering to Him our ordinary lives. I think St. Josemaría had the right balance between orthodoxy, self-sacrifice and joyfulness. The best priest ever, who’s a lot like St. Josemaría, belong to the Opus Dei. Probaby the most devout family I know is involved with the Opus Dei. All things considered I believe it’s a fruitful organization and can’t understand where all the paranoia comes from.

In response to the question “Is Opus Dei relevant outside of Europe?”: I find this to be somewhat of a silly question. It assumes various prejudices about what Spaniards are like and what Americans are like. As an American member who met the Work while living in Spain, I feel I can have some say on the topic. To assume that Spaniards are lazy is incorrect (and a bit offensive) and that Americans are overworked and brittle is equally so. The Work just helps people to strive for holiness in their every day lives. This is relevant in any country or socioeconomic class. Whether it is offering God your day as a business person or a homemaker, in manual labor or intellectual work, St. Josemaria’s teachings about knowing yourself to be and living as a son or daughter of God are relevant for everyone (Opus Dei member or not).

A couple of thoughts.  I enjoy Opus Dei and the spirituality it offers.  I have been to numerous recollections, some circles, and have not yet made a yearly retreat.  Other than ordinary word of mouth recommendations, I have not been forced, coerced, recruited, shamed, followed, or anything else. 

Some things to consider.  Opus Dei is international.  In the cities with centers where I have lived, many of the priests and numeries have been from foriegn countries.  This may be why somethings are experienced as different.

Some of the wonderful things I have experienced include: international confessional opportunities, spirituality geared toward laity and work, uniform direction, offering acts of love, and sacramentally hungry priests.

Simcha,

Maybe rather than just asking others (although I know you are interested in others to post here); the best way to answer your questions and curiosity could be to expand your experience enough so that you can get a first hand sense of OD.  My reason would minimally demand this of me for any topic.

I’d recommend your experience expand beyond dealing with people in Opus Dei.  For instance, you could attend one of the many means of formation sponsored by OD.  A retreat for example would expose you to a good first hand snapshot.  It worked for me.

I just sensed (by what you wrote on your blog), that in the end, what you hear and read (in this forum and elsewhere) from others -on all sides- will just give you second hand hearsay feedback (however interesting these all actually are), yet not honestly satisfy what your questions and intellectual curiosity rightfully seek an decent answer to.

@JJ - no, my reason and my intellectual curiosity were pretty well satisfied with these responses.  With only a few very minor exceptions, I thought everyone strove to be balanced and honest in their replies, and, just as importantly, only to speak of first-hand experience - so I don’t see how that qualifies as “hearsay” of any kind.  I think you’re implying that if anyone had a negative experience, their statement must be suspect in some way. 
/

Several Opus Dei folks said that I could get the most accurate information about the organization from going to the official websites.  But I wasn’t looking for information—I was looking for experience.  I found the point of view of both the fans and the critics very enlightening—and most interesting of all were the folks who saw OD as a mixed bag.

Simcha,

Agreed -I do think everyone here was pretty honest and coming from different backgrounds.  And I also don’t think websites would do it. 

Since you were looking for experience, I was trying (and maybe in a clumsy way) to emphasize on the power of first hand experience.  I could give you “my personal experience” but thought that an even better or best method is always to explore first hand. 

I would recommend that approach to my closest friends.

Regards.

SusanA- “sometimes the priests are a little cavalier about the seal”

either this is guessing gossip and you should be ashamed OR this is a VERY serious accusation- the seal of the confessional is one of our most precious gifts as Catholics- heaven save a priest who breaks the seal.

Just reading your words make me sick to my stomach- that a priest would be ‘cavalier about the seal’. The beauty of confession was what attracted my family (5 kids and mom and dad) to become Catholic- even before we ‘got to know’ the Eucharist

Yes,Priest’s wife. It is a serious accusation. I shouldn’t have made it in such an off-hand way.. But I stand by it. There was an incident that I was privy to that was a direct violation of the seal. when the person confronted his lay director about it he was told by that it was implicit in the contract with Opus Dei that their confession could be discussed between the director and the priest. It did not involve my confession specifically and I was unable for a variety of reasons to confront the priest directly. I wish I could have. I know three people who over the years whose lay spiritual director seemed to know things they had only revealed in confession. And I had a priest say something to me about another person that felt to me like a violation of the seal, though he only referred to a fault of the person, not a sin. And one more thing. When attempting to provoke a vocational crisis in someone, the priests in Opus Dei will often turn the topic of a talk to address something that a person had just mentioned in confession. Members will dismiss it as coincidence but since I remember experiencing this and others have mentioned it to me too then perhaps it is more than coincidence. It may not being violating the letter of the law but in my book it violates the spirit of the seal. This post will probably be deleted since it’s just my anonymous accusation. I should have known better than to open this can of worms.  And I know a lot of people who are looking for orthodoxy are attracted to Opus Dei. I can’t blame them. It makes me really sad.

@Susan - I don’t know about the priests sharing info gained from confession, but I have had the experience of members knowing personal information that I did not share with them.  Since then, I don’t really tell members of OD anything I’m not willing to shout from the roof tops ;-)

Years ago I had a OD “friend” who I considered to be close.  I really valued her friendship and I thought she valued mine too. I genuinely liked her and always looked forward to talking to her.  I came to find that she didn’t consider me her friend, but more of a project and I was on her “list” of people to “fix/help” or whatever else she and her members circle/director discussed.  (She basically told me all of this.) It hurt like hell when I found out.  Naturally I then shied away from all things OD, but a couple of years ago I decided to use OD for what I believe they do best - teach the faith to slightly confused Catholics ;-)  The people I have met through OD are genuine. And, I would be totally remiss if I didn’t mention the sound and wise direction I received for years from a priest of OD.  He help me TREMENDOUSLY through the tricky waters of being in leadership at a “progressive” parish . . . 

Anyway, I enjoyed this conversation.  Reading all of these comments has brought me peace and clarity.  I am certain I do not have a vocation to Opus Dei and I am grateful for my regular Catholic vocation. (And, Simcha congrats on #9!)

Regular old Catholic,
I think these lapses in confidentiality in the Work come from misguide paranoia and a sense of protecting the organization. Believe me, I talked about things told me in confidence by friends to my lay spiritual adviser. I never thought it was wrong. I was trying to help people after all. My father is a very good Catholic man who has been a cooperator for years and the work helped him a lot, but I can’t get over what they did to my brother and so many other young people who were recruited to become numeraries and ended up leaving Opus Dei and then Church. I can sympathize with this, for an Opus Dei member Opus Dei is the Church. I went through a very hard time after I left. I can’t explain it. I hope things change for the better in the Work, but there’s no mechanism for that and I don’t hold much hope.

I don’t know about anyone else, but I had a little trouble sleeping last night after I read Susan A’s responses. Her experience sounds horrendous, but it hasn’t been mine. At least with my personal experience with the priests and the confessional seal, I’ve never seen this. I asked my husband the same, and he agreed. The priests, in my experience, are so prayerful and take the sacraments so seriously, that what goes on in confession definitely stays in the confessional. If you’re under spiritual direction with a priest, and you’ve asked him to discuss with you problems that you’re having, he will help you with the things you tell him you’re struggling with. But that’s just between the priest and you. So, let’s say I have a problem with anger (and frankly, I don’t care if you know whether I do), and I snap at my kids all the time, the priest will offer suggestions on how to deal with the kids from a spiritual perspective: Pray to the Blessed Mother quickly when you feel the temptation to scream, pray to the child’s guardian angel, remember to keep frequenting the sacraments, etc. Quite frankly, I think this could be some of the “secret stuff” Opus Dei supposedly is infamous for—a little bunch of people trying to improve themselves so they become saints. And since none of us know saints on earth, we’re thinking about our death here and what we’re going to answer for. So there’s a lot of seeking advice from priests and, yes, sometimes (but not in all cases) from non-priests. I’m on a tangent here, but the casual observations I’ve seen by others in this comment box regarding what Opus Dei members “seem” like, well, you’re not seeing the finished product yet. Perhaps we never will. That’s between the individual and God. So we’re all a mess. Opus Dei is there to help everyone improve. Some have mentioned they feel people in Opus Dei are elitist and wealthy. My husband does tree work and is a farmer. We definitely feel out of place sometimes at the centers, which are located in cities. Naturally, people who live near these centers tend to be the ones who have the most contact with Opus Dei, and sometimes because of where they live, they might be wealthier. For any who’ve ever come across as elitist or snobby (or perhaps there’s a gossip in the bunch), how do you know they’re not working on that imperfection? Finally, I have to say, I agree with some who have mentioned the Pollyannaish way some of them come across. But I don’t really see that in the priests. And it’s about the only place where I ever hear regularly about the cross and suffering, and how we can’t have this faith without the cross. Opus Dei shows you how to deal with it in an authentially Catholic manner. Finally, I have to say that Opus Dei isn’t the Church for me, and I think I have a healthy love for the religious life, actually, and I have a child or two who would rather be nuns than numeraries, and that’s cool with me. Opus Dei is just a tool that helps me deal with the rest of my life. I’ll step back now, knowing I’m about to get clobbered here.

@ Sarah - you wrote:  “a little bunch of people trying to improve themselves so they become saints.”

This is where people get frustrated with people’s description of OD.  It’s not a “little bunch of people” and “trying to become saints”, aren’t we all?  Its a huge multi-national, million - maybe billion dollar organization.  It may be the single largest, most influential organization within the Catholic Church.  While one’s experience may be with their “circle” or their reading group, it is a HUGE organization, well-institutionalized and structured.  The formation is uniform.  It is no surprise that there is a universal appreciation for the way that Opus Dei priests hear confessions.  It is a testament to the strength of their formation. 

While lots of people recounted personal stories here of bad and good experiences that they’ve had, I think its clearly illustrated here too that OD does a lot of good work, and there’s some kooks thrown in - because that’s life.  Couldn’t we have said something similar if there was a blog post about “Roman Catholics: The Good, the Bad and the Kooky”? 

In regards to the “seal” - my experience has been that OD priests are very clear about what is and what is no confession.  Everything said in the box is not confession.  Confession starts with the sign of the cross and ends with the sign of the cross, and any counseling sought occurs after the confession.  I can see people thinking anything inside the box is covered under the seal, but it’s not.  Does that give priests the right to discuss it with others? That’s not a canonical question, it’s a question of prudence and trust. 

Having been a member of Regnum Christi, I’m not surprised about the other information being passed around - and I’m ashamed if I had any part in it in anyone’s life - and I probably did. Thankfully, I wasn’t in a very influential role and don’t *think* I ruined anyone’s life because of it.  With that said, I really think OD became a bit more transparent after the Da Vinci code ridiculousness - and I hope that the organization learned some things.

Sarah B.,

It hasn’t been my experience either, especially with the priests. I’m happy to have an opportunity to share my positive personal experience with OD because I find the stereotypes frustrating.

That said, of COURSE it’s a mixed bag…what isn’t? There are people I like a lot and people who irritate me for one reason or another in every other area of my life: my family, my parish, my kid’s Catholic school, my place of employment, my son’s athletic association, etc. Why would a particular Opus Dei group be any different?

We’re all human with all the baggage that goes along with that. I’m not trying to contradict anything that SusanA or Regular Old Catholic may have experienced…their observations are as valid as mine and everyone filters through their own particular “lens.”

When I was first introduced to OD over 10 years ago, I was a real skeptic. As a former newspaper reporter I threw myself into researching anything and everything I could get my hands on, from ODAN to books by disillusioned former members. And all I can say is, based on my own firsthand experience, I’ve simply seen much, MUCH more positive than negative.

J H,

Regarding whether OD is “the single largest most influential within the Catholic Church,” here’s what respected reporter John Allen (of the National Catholic Reporter) had to say in an interview about his recent book on OD: 

“...The aim of my book is to be as objective as possible, on a subject that’s not really known for attracting objective discussion. The idea is to separate fact from fiction, providing tools for a rational conversation that’s grounded in reality rather than myth or stereotype. It was not my intent to “convert” readers to any particular position about Opus Dei, and my experience is that most people come away from the book without having changed their fundamental impressions of the group, but perhaps feeling a bit more informed, and a bit less alarmed. Given the highly negative image Opus Dei carries in some quarters, any serious comparison of that image with reality inevitably will make the group seem more human, less nefarious, than some had previously believed. To take the basic numbers, Opus Dei has a worldwide membership of 85,000, which is roughly equivalent to the Diocese of Hobart on the island of Tasmania off the Australian coast. The group also counts some 164,000 “cooperators,” meaning “supporters.” Outside Spain, where Opus Dei was born in 1928, Opus Dei represents a tiny, almost invisible, fraction of the Catholic community; in the United States, for example, there are roughly 3,000 members out of a total Catholic population of 67 million. Opus Dei’s global wealth, meaning the physical value of all the assets listed as “corporate works” of Opus Dei, is around $2.8 billion. For one frame of comparison, General Motors in 2003 reported assets of $455 billion. Even by Catholic standards, Opus Dei’s wealth is not terribly impressive; in 2003, the Archdiocese of Chicago reported assets of $2.5 billion. The American lay organization the Knights of Columbus runs an insurance program which all by itself is worth $6 billion. In terms of power, Opus Dei numbers only 40 out of more than 4,500 Catholic bishops worldwide, including only two members of the College of Cardinals, and just 20 out of more than 2,500 employees in the Roman Curia, including only one head of a policy-making agency. In truth, Opus Dei’s potential to “call the shots” inside Catholicism is far more limited than many imagine. For every Vatican battle Opus Dei members have won over the years, they’ve lost others. Despite being a vaunted recruiting machine, Opus Dei’s growth rate is pretty small. Worldwide they add about 650 members a year, and in some places they’re basically stalled. In the United States, Opus Dei has hovered at about 3,000 members since the 1980s. All this suggests that Opus Dei is not as imposing as some of the mythology would lead one to believe. Ironically, the people most determined to believe in Opus Dei’s occult power are generally not its members, but its critics, who see its modest structure as masking vast unseen influence….”

You can read the whole interview here:

http://www.zenit.org/article-14916?l=english

And neither are they a “small bunch of people seeking holiness”. 

I’ve attended Opus Dei events in five cities:  Chicago, Boston, Princeton, Dallas and DC.  The fact that they have any Cardinals is impressive.  And how many commentators here have said, “I have done X with them, but I’m not a member.”  It could be that I am attracted to orthodoxy so I just end up where they are… or it could be that they are more expansive than their numbers portray. 

Here’s a difference.  If you go to a Catholic Church in Chicago, it could be ultra super orthodox (like St. Mary of the Angels run by Opus Dei) or it could be super flakey, rainbow toting, hardly recognizable Catholic where the priest uses puppets during the homily. I’ve been to both in Chicago.  If you go to an Opus Dei event in Chicago or Boston or Princeton, you’re basically going to get the same thing. 

I’m not a conspiracist, I think OD is a good organization and a good tool for the Church to evangelize and help people get to heaven.  I think their order and structure is a good thing.  But I don’t think its a casual organization by any means, and I don’t know why people would want to paint it as such. 

By the way, how many Cardinals does the Knights of Columbus have? How many parishes? Schools? Priests? The Knights are a powerful organization too - but membership in them is a lot less demanding.  My husband just pay dues, and that’s it.  A cooperator in OD has daily, weekly, monthly and yearly commitments.  Members are a lot more committed and involved.  These words take on different meanings within OD than they do in daily parlance.  I’ve never been a member or a cooperator, and yet I’ve been to monthly recollections, study circles and annual retreats with them.

Given this discussion, I would hardly call OD “nearly invisible”.  If those numbers cited are accurate, then it is amazing that OD has the influence that it does with such small numbers and such limited means.  Again, I’m glad that they do - but I think that we should be honest about how influential they are.

J H,

Just one more clarification, from my perspective as a cooperator (married to a supernumerary).

While I wouldn’t describe it as a casual commitment (although it sometimes plays out that way in my own life), cooperators don’t really have the daily, weekly, monthly and yearly obligations/commitments embraced by numeraries and (to a different or lesser extent) supernumeraries.

I do think that structured activities are beneficial to spiritual growth, however. Just as people put time into, say, athletic workouts or training, or attend a Weight Watchers group, or professional development activities, or whatever, the same can be said of formation.

No pain, no gain applies to the spiritual life also.

I can see how it might seem that my statement concerning numbers might seem uninformed. Perhaps folks in cities where there are centers and, I might add, lots other Catholics, might have the perspective that Opus Dei is as available as McDonalds. For those of us in the Bible Belt or in the city two hours away, where the nearest center is located, you’re more likely to find Baptists or Presbyterians attending a church bazarre than people going to an Evening of Recollection. I think the last recollection I attended, there were maybe 20 of us in a suburb of a predominantly Catholic city of about 1 million. That’s what I meant. Now, should we get into a lather about how much wealth is located at the Vatican?

I appreciate what has been written here by @Susan, @Jean, and @AregularoldCatholic for, as I wrote in my initial posting above, I have experienced many of the same things.  While I have not personally known of anything that I have confessed being revealed to others, I have been in the position of having something I said in confession suddenly being a topic or example of a subsequent meditation given by the priest to whom I confessed.  While I don’t think that this is technically a violation of the confessional seal, it is a bit awkward to hear.  However, I still maintain that, when members divulge personal information regarding my spiritual life to other members, it is a very, very serious issue, and I know that this has happened in my case.  When members have asked to meet with me (over lunch, etc.) and then asked me questions about my faith practices and interior life, they have never once told me why they are asking such questions nor informed me that my answers could be shared.  When this first happened to me (while I was in college), and I resisted answering some of the questions that the numerary asked me, he acted flustered and annoyed and stopped inviting me to lunches.  Instead, a different numerary started inviting me, and it became clear that I had been “passed off” to him, very possibly as a “difficult case”.  Opus Dei members might claim that they are simply people trying to be holy in the midst of the world and trying to help others do the same, but the ends don’t justify the means.  Living a holy life and helping others to do the same is not an end that is well-served, in my opinion, by engaging in deceptive practices and by forming “artificial friendships” whose only real objective is to get people to participate in more activities of the Work.  And, I also know (based on eighteen years of experience with the Work in four cities) that this is not a matter of a few members going overboard in their apostolate.  As has been confirmed by some of those posting in this discussion, what I am critiquing here is systemic, something that members of Opus Dei are instructed to do.  What I believe is especially telling is the fact that, when I have tried bringing up these concerns with members of Opus Dei (or posting them here, where Opus Dei members have also been posting), I have never received any response at all.  No denials, no explanations, no apologies, and no acknowledgment of any of the specific issues that I raise.  Instead, all I have seen and heard in response are vague platitudes about how the goal of Opus Dei is holiness in daily life.  It has long seemed to me that one of the ideas behind Opus Dei is that you can essentially “trick” people into holiness by leading them, step-by-step, down a path towards it without such people knowing what you’re doing.  I do find this ironic in light of one quotation by St. Josemaria in “The Way” in which he criticized “Machiavellian intrigues” and wrote that Our Lord wants good and simple men to follow him.  I have moved and worked in a variety of different Catholic circles, and the apostolic tactics of Opus Dei are, far and away, the most Machiavellian of any I have encountered.  As I wrote earlier, the larger goal of promoting sanctity in daily life is a great one, and one for which there is clearly and understandably much hunger today.  And, the theological formation of Opus Dei is sound and especially helpful for those who, by virtue of circumstance, have not received much solid formation.  It saddens me, therefore, to see the Work take a mission that is so awesome and then undermine it through an apostolic philosophy that doesn’t live up to the principles that they themselves espouse.

I would like to make one additional point regarding the content of Opus Dei formation, though.  While theologically sound, I have come to believe that their practical approach to personal spirituality is rather narrow.  As I have become older, it has appeared more to me as a sort of “checklist” spirituality, whereby you attain holiness by fulfilling all of the various duties on a list and practicing a list of necessary virtues.  Recently, I read “Dark Night of the Soul” by St. John of the Cross and felt as if I was a parched soul finally getting a drink of water, for I felt like, here, I was finally beginning to learn about how God acts in my soul and in my life in ways that I have never learned about through the Work.  In doing more such reading, it has become clear to me that the contemplative angle of spirituality - getting to know God and know our own souls - is something for which the Work doesn’t provide much formation at all.  Opus Dei spirituality is about DOING the right things - so much so, in fact, that I believe that knowing God and really deepening our relationship with Him (advancing to the higher “mansions”, as St. Teresa of Avila puts it) isn’t given enough attention.  In fact, it has long seemed to me that exploring other faith traditions is somewhat discouraged in the Work.  There have been times when I have mentioned what I am doing in terms of spiritual reading to a member and then felt as if the member was trying to steer me back towards specifically Opus Dei literature.  My wife, also, was told by a member that she should not take part in forming an evening Bible Study group with a few other ladies (very knowledgeable ladies, I might add) unless it would be led by a priest or member (she went ahead and formed the group anyways! :) ).  I have been attending Opus Dei circles off-and-one for eighteen years, and even those have become very redundant for me because one hears the same virtue-based themes covered over and over again.  That might be OK if the talks given in circles progressively deepened our understanding of virtues and connected them to the larger goal of knowing Our Lord, but my experience is that the quality of circles is VERY hit-and-miss to begin with, and I seldom hear new insights or ideas that I haven’t heard at least several times already.  Some members give very good talks at circles, while others are clearly struggling to get through and are relying on a written script that primarily repeats what is said in Opus Dei literature.  It has been harder to justify making time for a circle when I so seldom feel nowadays like I’ll get much out of it.  But, to me, this is not as serious an issue as are the apostolic practices to which I referred above.

Oddly enough, as a very orthodox 3rd Degree Knight trying to form a council in a very liberal, heterodox, dissenting parish, I was reading this thread to see of OD had some promise to help me.

It doesn’t.  The Knights are a better fit for me.

Oh, and funny thing about the Vatican’s wealth- apparently for many centuries the Popes had been living off of *land investments* in the servile serfdom known as the Papal States.  The Vatican was essentially bankrupt between 1861 (the loss of the Papal States) and 1925 (when a lump some of money was paid by Italy to the Vatican to compensate for the loss of the Papal States).  Ever since then they’ve run off of investments and donations and museum tickets; in the 1970s the Pope was scammed by a secret Masonic Lodge into some bad investments.  The Vatican’s budget is actually about the same as OD’s.

I learned all this from a secular TV show:  History Channel’s Secret Access did a special on Pope Benedict XVI in March.

@petrusca: Obviously, your spirituality is Carmelite rather than Opus Dei. ;-) Seriously, every Catholic has a spiritual “home,” and one is not “better” than another, only with a different emphasis. And we can all benefit by learning about other spiritualites, even if we are not called to them.

All you need to know about opus dei can be found right here: www.odan.org

Petrusca,
Thanks you so much for the insightful post. I agree that very many times Opus Dei helps people at the very beginning of their spiritual quest but they never move beyond that. Josemaria Escriva’s theology is actually rather trite. The numerary members who gave me formation had no instruction in spiritual direction. Some were good at it and some were not. Once you join the work, you don’t even have talks about virtues anymore, the talks are all about the norms.
Members of the work can give each other “fraternal corrections” but if you have a general concern and you speak to a director about it, you get a line like “Oh, you should talk to someone about that.” So you go around in circles and never quite figure out who to talk to. But there isn’t much else out there. So you put up with it, take the good and leave the bad. I guess.

I just want to disagree with two things posted by two previous comments.

a)In doing more such reading, it has become clear to me that the contemplative angle of spirituality - getting to know God and know our own souls - is something forwhich the Work doesn’t provide much formation at all.

b)Once youjoin the work, you don’t even have talks about virtues anymore, the talksare all about the norms.

This has not been my experience as a member of the work for 10 plus years.

Thanks!

From mine and my family’s 40 year experience Susan A. and Petrusca are right on the money. Speaking of money—OD loves it.  OD is not much interested in the car mechanic; however, if he owns a few dealerships, he’ll get noticed. He will end up on some numerary’s list of prospective “recruits” they are keep tracking of. In case you don’t know about the “list”, every numerary (and I think supernumeraries) are to befriend unsuspecting people they think will make good members. They are to report progress to their director. If the director deems the “friend” not worthy, said friend is dumped with no explanation and left wondering what happened. It’s a whole differnt ball game after you sign the contract to join. I could go on ...

JH -Thank you for clearing up the confusion on the seal. I feel so much better now.
John Allen -  bless him, went wide-eyed to Rome and visited Opus Dei headquarters, where he was wined and dined by the heads of Opus Dei. His book doesn’t shed any light on the internal workings of the organization. Do you supposed he visited the famous marble crypt? Did they point out that Villa Tevere in all it’s lavishness was built by his holiness St. Josemaria. Did that raise any red flags?
The idea of being mortified while being surrounded by opulence reminds me of Odysseus being tied to the mast of his ship so he could listen to the Sirens’ song. Rather unbecoming for a prelate.
3000 members. Opus Dei has been in the US now for over 50 years. Those aren’t very impressive numbers. I know of at least 75 people who have left Opus Dei. These are just people I’ve met over the years.  Machiavellian recruiting tactics get people to join but they don’t stay.

St Josemaría Escrivá may be a saint and have given good doctrine that millions of people give money to his cause through Opus Dei.  But I think that Fr. José María Arizmendiarrieta, while not a capital S Saint, seems to have provided better for the people who followed him, both Catholic and non-Catholic, in Spain.  And in America- I’ll take Venerable Fr. Michal J McGivney over St Josemaria any day.

Folks, the comments have been helpful and civil for the most part, but I think some of the remarks today have been less so, and are veering into less charitable territory.  I am going to close comments, not in an effort to censor anyone or quash any point of view, but because it seems that the same points are being made over and over, and I don’t see anything especially productive in continuing the conversation along those lines.

Thanks again for an illuminating discussion!