Simcha’s post invites us all to a valuable moment of introspection and self-reflection.  Not, of course, so that we can remain focused on ourselves, but rather so that we can discover what might be (unreflectedly) an obstacle to receiving the full truth of God.  Indeed, as she says in this post, all (or almost all—I’m not sure about the ironic Rabbi part) of these things are true about God and one of the beauties of our Catholic Faith is that we are the great “et…et” (to quote Cardinal Ratzinger).  We can hold all these true things about God together because they are all simultaneously true, even if we don’t see how.  On the other hand, even as regards to her post about the fear of Hell, I must disagree.  Fear of hell may not motivate *her* spiritual life.  If that is true it can only mean that God has granted her to grow in charity to the point on contrition (properly speaking).  But fear of Hell motivated even the great John Chrysostom (read his treatise On the Priesthood) in some respects.  Speaking of balance, we would all do well to remember that fear of punishment is imperfect contrition (attrition), but imperfect nonetheless.  A person who dies only motivated by attrition will, according to the Church’s teaching, eventually enter the glory of Heaven, while “before” he gets there, his love will need to be perfected in the fires of God’s mercy, Purgatory.

We were sitting at a table in McDonald’s when our young son looked out the window and screamed, “Look!  There goes God!”  I checked—the man passing the window didn’t look like God to me, but he was a ringer for George Burns, who played the role in the 1977 movie “Oh, God!”

As someone who struggles with the concept of prayer (God is not Santa Claus, why ask for things when He will choose what is best for me, etc.) I have found that I return again and again to a comforting Jesus who loves me just as I am. I can only trust Him; He is most offended when I do not. I might tend to the “warm and fuzzy” version of God; I know that I am too small and silly to face a scary judge, and somehow that feels right.

@Ben, I’m not sure why you say you disagree with me.  In both posts, all I was asking for was balance, and that cuts both ways.  There are, in my experience, far too many Catholics who actually get *upset* by the mere mention of a merciful and loving God.  I’m just trying to point out that this attitude is equally as distorted as the idea of the caring-‘n’-sharing Christ who just wants us to get along. 

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I hope you don’t think I’m claiming I’ve achieved perfect contrition.  I’m not talking about where my soul IS; I’m talking about where my soul BEGINS.  That was the point of the line, “most often, I pray to a God who loves and welcomes me.  That is where I start—and this approach often leads to the contrition or awe, just as it would if I went first to God as Judge.” 

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The theory of theological truths is very important, but when it comes down to it, we are all left with the task of figuring out what to DO next—how to live.  And so that’s why I have been speaking about my experience, and asking people to share theirs.

I pray to God, the loving Father.  But I understand that as my parent He might get angry or disappointed with me.  I might not always understand or agree with His rules, but things will be better for me in the long term if I try follow them.  He might allow bad things to happen (or make me face the natural consequences of my own bad behavior) in order to teach me a lesson.  He might have to do the same to other people because I am not his only child.  So, while see God as the loving Father, I know that a loving Father requires discipline and is no push-over.

What is hell?  Hell is separating yourself from God.  It’s sitting in a dark hut moaning and groaning while everyone else goes “further up and further in”.  Of course, maybe I’ve just read too much C.S. Lewis.

Is this not the debate of our time, figuring out whether we should be attending Church looking for the God of Love, or having our pastors preach fire and brimstone, and the fear of Hell?  I have recently heard so many different stories of people coming TO the Catholic Church because they wanted to hear more about the Love, while many of those sitting in the pews are complaining that we don’t have enough of the fire.

This tears at me as well, especially since I concentrate so much on the fire, that I stall myself out in seeking the Love.  Thank goodness my priests know how to make it work (somewhat) for me in discussion.  I guess, as Catholics, we need to have both, just not let one dominate the other (good luck with that my Brothers and Sisters…).

Wow.  I gotta say, I’m still here: “All that mattered was what was true, and the main truth I could grasp was that every breath I took,  every firing of every neuron in my brain, and every prayer to God was an occasion of deep spiritual and emotional pain.”
Good to know it might get better.

I think that God is amazing, in that He is - to each of us - exactly what He needs to be… whether we want His Presence in our lives or not.

He has been many figures to me- but right now- he is, of course, the One who most relates to me… the God who is frustrated with me when I am frustrated with myself. The one who WANTS me to be in Heaven with Him, eventually, but who mutters to Himself “WTF?” when I, let’s say in a manner of speaking, get on the wrong train to the destination of Heaven. “WTF, Mariel- you were supposed to get on this train… and now you’re going in the opposite direction and don’t even realize it! When you figure it out, give me a call. I’ll be waiting, as always. sheesh.”

Thusly, God is merciful… always waiting to meet me at the depot. BUT still pi$$ed off… “I TOLD you which train to get on, bought your ticket and all you had to do was pick it up and get onto the train… and you still missed it?! Just great.” lol

@anon 11:24 AM:  I’m sorry to hear that, and I will pray for you.  The turning point in my life was when I went to a healing mass.  It was charismatic and off-putting, but darn it, it worked.  Not immediately—it took many years before I was able to climb completely out of that dark place—but it’s very obvious to me that that was the moment when things started to turn around for me. If you can find a healing mass in your area, I hope you will be able to find a way to go.  It might not seem like much, but if we believe that God heals, then this is one way to ask Him for the healing that He wants to give you.  God can make good come out of suffering, but that does not mean that he wants you to suffer.

I spent too many years in fire and brimestone land.  I absolutely refuse to go back no matter how well meaning some Catholics are in trying to get me there.  At this point in my life, God IS love.  It’s that belief that He loves me totally and completely that brings tears to my eyes at mass.  I go to confession not because I fear hell but because I long for a close relationship with God.  The longer I go between confession, the more distant he feels to me.  I’ve only been catholic for a year but each and every time (no matter which priest), when he prays the prayer of absolution, I feel what’s like a warm oil pouring over my head.  It’s the most amazing experience.  I have no idea if it will last or if it’s just a special gift for a time, but just for a moment before I pull back that curtain, I feel like I get a glimpse of what it must feel like to be in heaven.

So, I hope and pray that no matter what life throws at me, even if I’m clinging to the cross with the tips of my fingernails, with God’s grace, I’m going to say until my dying breath, that God IS love.

It is very sad to admit, but quite frankly I didn’t know who I was praying to for years.  It wasn’t until I read the Holy Father’s book, Jesus of Nazareth, that the picture became clearer.  Now who I am praying to is someone who is infinitely superior to me in every way.  Someone who would risk anything to save me from eternal pain, but will not compromise of what is necessary to earn this undeserved gift.  Someone who loves me more completely than I love myself.  Someone who is not afraid do to what love must do.  A love that knows it has to nuture you sometimes and a love that knows when to kick you in the ass.  I thank God for the ass kicking.  Over time, God willing this picture will become clearer and clearer. 

PS Is it a bad thing that Pope Benedict is the best religious education teacher I have ever had?

If you meet the buddha on the road, kill him.

If you think you know God, you don’t. It is only our ego that we try and place human images onto the word God. God is everything and nothing. He is us and we are him.

knock and you shall find

@ Joe:

“PS Is it a bad thing that Pope Benedict is the best religious education teacher I have ever had?”

Of course not.

On the point of this post: most of the world’s people are poor, suffering, struggling, despairing, lacking any sort of comfort, etc.  What good does it do to speak to the hungry, the homeless, the sick, the lonely, etc. about the God who is infinitely offended when they, say, drink their problems away?  Only a very small minority of economically comfortable, “middle class” Christians need to be reminded of the God who judges.  That is probably 1% of the world’s population.  Rather than a “balance”, then, I would say there is a terrific imbalance: most of the time for most people should be spent thinking of the God who loves.

Aren’t there many psychological theories, claiming that the way we see our own earthly father is the way we see God? That the relationship we have with our own father influences the relationship we have with God the Father? A healthy relationship with one’s father is primarily one of love and respect with a confidence that he will always do his utmost to care for you. There should not be fear, except the healthy “fear” that comes from respect or the fear that you may do something to damamge that loving relationship.

As a convert it was through the Sacrament of Reconciliation that I began to trust in a loving, merciful God. Which then freed me to look deeper at my sin. For me it has to start with a loving God. The hell and brimstone stuff keeps me living in fear, which I’ve done for much of my life.

Actually, I suppose I think of my mom’s personality perfected when I think of God (without the weakness of health, limited knowledge, etc). She had a steel-like determination to do what was right for us, even in the face of our complaints, bitter attacks and childish games. We gave her hell and she suffered for it, yet chose to continue doing so out of love, because it was what was needed. We feared her, hated her at times, declared in no uncertain terms that she was the worst mother in the world.

We were not “pals” growing up. My mom’s favorite sentence* was “I’m not supposed to be your FRIEND, I’m supposed to be your MOM.” I would confide in her, but never lost that “fear”. I knew she loved me and trusted her.

She didn’t do everything right, I just suppose she is an imperfect image of the God who is perfect. When I think of a loving Father, I think of these qualities of determination to do what is right for your children, even in the face of being called a horrible father. It’s about as far from a pushover as you can get.

* Her second favorite line, “When you are an adult there will be plenty of people willing to make lots of money helping you work through why you hate me.”

For me, my Lord is both and all those images.  He is the loving Christ on the cross, waiting for me, and looking at Him I know every one of my sins makes Him bleed all the more, and I am judged.  As I should be.  And yet still He waits in love.

@Katherine:
I think that’s why I cling to the God IS love idea.  I did not have/nor likely will ever have without a miracle a “loving” earthly father.  But I do have a “heavenly” one who loves me unconditionally.  Who was there every step of the way through my childhood.  Who I can now see in retrospect, kept in his grace and care.  I guess that is the other idea I cling to, thankfulness.  Even in the midst of our suffering, He is there.

@Christina:
Hah!  I say to my kids, “Tell it to your therapist when you’re an adult.”  I think if my kids aren’t annoyed with me at least some of time, I’m probably not doing the parenting thing right.  (Those of you with easy going, people pleaser kids, no comments allowed).

I imagine the bloody face of our Lord, crowned with thorns, and remember that it was by my sinfulness that He was so wounded.

*ahem*  That’s when I stop to pray.  Such an image is never to be found whilst I’m off a-sinning!

God is the father, Jesus my brother and loving savior and the holy spirit a ribbon wrapped around the gift(ME- US children of God the almighty) If I am to be a child, I must see myself as a child. I am completely dependent on God, he is my creator and he loves me beyond human comprehension- searches for the 1 sheep whom is lost.Always humbles himself first when the prodigal child is on the horizon, always giving the best.I am also like a teenager trying to get somewhere else in a hurry w/0 listening- NO THAT I AM. Many times to repercussion of my sin is punishment enough and He embraces me. He is all GOOD, man does the rest- but he is closer to me when I am in need than any other. He put us in a perfect paradise, our hell is of our own creation or of someone else. There is nothing He can’t do or can’t fix if we only ask. Today we fail to recognize Lucifer and how he and his demons try to pull us away form God. There are many wolves among us, many unknowing they have fallen prey until it’s too late. We all are sinners, born into a sinful world at the time of Jesus, God knew what we were up against then and now- Jesus is our savior he took all the world past, present, and future and won victory over all. GOD IS EVERYWHERE AND WANTS A RELATIONSHIP WITH US ALL. Just like in a family we are all different, have unique gifts and talents, and different personalities. God choose to love us first and wants our love in return, he teaches us in a way we understand and we all are at different places on the journey towards heaven. Jesus overcame the worlds sin with love. His love was perfect- he was falsely accused for us-hated far beyond what I’ve known- beaten past recognition w/o blame for us-the weight of the worlds sin placed on his shoulders, Simeon humiliated to be seen with- a tiny amount of compassion from Veronica-more vile hatred along the way. Christ experienced to worst of man in a consolidated dose- containing everything that could happen to us in our life all at once. Yet out of love forgave for we knew not what we had done. Asked for nothing in return except, accept me as your savior, tell me what you need and I will show you how much I love you. If you know me you have meet the father. Thank you Jesus for everything is all I can say.

According to Divine Science( Image and likeness of God)  references is to mind,, not the Body , else animals would also be in Image of God ( Genesis 1:26-27;5:1) Man is superior (Psalm 8:6-8) A little lower than God ( Psalm 8:5) God without form ( Deuteronomy 4:15-16) Mind specially created ( Genesis 2:7) In Christ there is a New creation , also in the Image of God ( Roman 6:4;7:6; 2 Corinthians 5:17; Ephesians 4:24; Colossians 3:10)
The word of God - any expression of God’s mind or will.  names for the Word of God ( oracles of God :Roman 3:2) Word of faith( Roman 10:8) Word of the Gospel ( Acts 15:7) , Word of reconciliation ( 2 Corinthians 5:19) Word of truth( Ephesians 1:13) “Truth” ( John 14:6)
This is exact Science that has been revealed unto us !!!!!!!!!!

**My main point was that fear of hell is not an effective motivator for good behavior. (It may motivate me to go to confession, but it rarely keeps me from sinning!)**
__________________

If it motivates you to go to Confession, then it has effectively motivated you to keep you from the sin of failing or refusing to ask God for forgiveness (i.e. presumption, blasphemy of the Holy Spirit).

Moreover, it times of despair—severe despair—does the fear of hell effectively motivate people not to commit the mortal sin of suicide?  It is true that alot of well-meaning people try to claim that suicide is not a mortal sin, but merely a psychological illness, but intentionally throwing away the gift of life that God has given you, in violation of that commandment, “thou shall not kill,” is very clearly and objectively a mortal sin.

However, it is not God who then damns us to Hell because we have the audacity to so “infinitely offend” Him (we do NOT have that power over God to offend Him), but it is we who throw our lives away, both worldly and eternal.  We choose Hell, not God.

That said, if people whose lives are so awful that they want to end it nevertheless know that where they will go is even worse, then that is a pretty good motivator to put up with the “slings and arrows” of life on that “sea of troubles.”

@Bender:
One can pray for the souls of those who (objectively) have committed suicide because 1) I don’t know what degree of depression the person was in at the moment he/she pointed the gun at her/his head; and, 2) Sincere prayer is not wasted.  If inapplicable to the person intended to be prayed for, God will redirect it.  A teaching sister taught us that more than sixty years back.
TeaPot562

Personally, I gravitate towards the image of Redeemer. He offers mercy, but wont hesitate to dispense justice where it is due.

On that note, many of my highschool peers see God as a judgemental tyrant, while others see him(in the person of Jesus) as loving and accepting everybody, regardless of what they have done(i.e no such thing as sin).

When will we understand that we can’t put God in a box?

“How often do we wonder what God’s love is? What it should feel like? What does it mean when we hear that God loves each of us more than we can ever imagine?

Reflect upon Our Lord immediately after His Scourging. Possibly left unattended for a few scant seconds or minutes sitting disoriented at the base of the pillar after being beaten so severely for a long period. Imagine if you will that each of us is allowed to witness this spiritually in horror and feel the sadness. It’s all we can think about to bow down on our knees in homage before Him, there are no words. Our heads face down on the ground in front of Him, with our arms also extended on the ground at His Feet.

He is exhausted, battered, beaten, bleeding, naked, probably can’t even see straight because of The Blood Loss now at His Feet. Unimaginable Pain, Thirst and Lonliness. While kneeling in front of Him in homage, I try to sneak a peek up to see how He is doing.

Suddenly, He slowly lifts up His Shaking Head, recognizes me, and knows all the terrible ugliness of all the horrible mortal and venial sins on my soul. My head immediately bolts back to the ground in terrible shame and fear.

In His terrible agony, His eyes become rejuvenated and He desperately tries to reach out to Bless me. His goal only to touch my head gently, to welcome and thank me for simply being there.

In spite of the terrible pain He has suffered and will continue to suffer, nothing is more important to Him in this moment than to reach out with love. To one of His lost sheep that hasn’t even been born yet.

He does not make it far when He is roughly pulled up and led away. He turns back as He is being escorted away and looks at me. His look is one of being completely horrified and filled with Sorrow and Love that He has to leave. The physical torture that will occur over and over to Him in the next few hours seems of little concern compared to His Sorrow and Anxiety for having to leave one soul unattended at that moment…

No matter His Pain, He is always ready to reach out to each of us to our dying breath, and His..”.

Lately, when I pray *to* God, I’m trying not to imagine him any too specifically. A la The Cloud of Unknowing, any specific image, feeling, or sense seems too unreliable, to incomplete, to use as a representation of Him. But I still get senses, I guess, of his reactions to me: love, forgiveness, correction, etc.

When I pray I often “talk” to Jesus as the Infant in the manger at Bethlehem…with his arms outstretched as we often see Him in the creche scenes. It is the very same Jesus that stretches out His arms to me from the Cross welcoming me into His embrace…either way I claim Him as my Lord and my Redeemer who loves me more than I can ever deserve or appreciate… he knows me in all my sinfulness, my weakness, my poverty and He is telling me everything will be alright…He has redeemed me and has given me the grace to pick up my Cross and follow Him..He will never leave me for even a second until I finally reach that eternal embrace of His Everlasting love. God is just but through our Savior Jesus’ mercy we
are all saved who desire Him with all our hearts.  Someone (and at my age I am just grateful I remember the statement)whose name I forget made this beautiful statement ... “God’s justice is not about equality” for all…Think about that! Jesus referred to His Father’s House as having many rooms…and also that in His Kingdom there are many mansions. Love and trust and treasure these things!

I never really thought about this question.  In my experience with prayer, God generally reveals to me the way He wants me to see Him, rather than me choosing an image that “works”. There have been times where His image appears in my mind as the Bridegroom embracing His beloved, and this is the most common one.  Once however, I entered my local Cathedral for adoration with the sacrament exposed in a gold monstrance and was immediately shown an image of a powerful King, like in the book of Esther.  There was also one Holy Thursday where I saw him as Christ in the Garden of Gethsemane, asking me to sit next to Him because He felt so alone.  Although I can understand people using an image consciously, I usually just start praying, if something comes it comes, if nothing comes I know he´s still listening.

Generally, I imagine Jesus, the Good Sheperd.
Interesting, you mentioned Terminator - sometimes it seemed to me that God’s only role is to ruin everything in my life, without building anything meaningful. I struggle with this even now.
And yes, no matter how I imagine and experience Him, He always manages to turn someone new, someone I don’t know :-))

God is Love and Love is Justice and Mercy. It is as just to feed the hungry as it is merciful to punish the wicked, and visa-versa.

“It’s not spiritually healthy to think of God only and always as a loving father, because that can too easily bleed into God as spineless pushover…”  For me, the image of God as a loving father does not by any means signify spinelessness.  Loving is not coddling.  I am very blessed to have an earthly father who stands as an example of what my heavenly Father is like, and throughout my life he has shown me many different faces of love.  He rejoices with me in my life’s victories, and encourages me to live my dreams.  He instilled in me a deep sense of right and wrong, and was not afraid to discipline me as I was growing up.  “Disappointing Dad” was one very real consequence of bad behavior.  And I still turn to my dad for wisdom in my adult life.  God the Father is not a smiling idiot.  He is a fearless protector of His children.  Thanks for giving me a reason to think about this today, Simcha!

How do I picture God? This article does make one think! I have often pictured God as a Judge. He is fair and just but He’s not trying to make things all “warm and fuzzy” or wishing we are all happy-go-lucky all the time. In fact, I think He allows us to face many difficult tasks during our life (knowing, of course, that they are meant to help us, not hinder us). That Divine Mercy picture of Christ is the face of God to me. When I look at that picture, I see Jesus both merciful and powerful. In other words, He will hold all accountable for our actions both good and bad.

I’ve heard it said before that our image or relationship with God is very much effected by our view or relationship with our temporal fathers. For some of us, the absence of a father during the formative years may lead to a lot of problems identifying with a “personal” God in later years. I personally like to surround myself with statues of Mary, Crusafix’s, and other religious art. But when I close my eyes, I have to shut out all images and just hear…I usually can’t see anything but He always, somehow, visits me.

Reflection

“It’s as if I am looking out a basement window - at ground level - this is my only view. It never goes up, down, right, or left - only straight ahead as in a picture. Off in the distance I see the pale blue sky with a faded white cloud - a partly sunny day. I see a dirt road at my eye level - dirt, rocks, and gravel - that’s it. As mentioned, my view is at ground level and stays constant - it never waivers - yet I cringe at the strange calm.

I hear the ever-increasing sound of people approaching on the road. Suddenly, I see one set of feet in sandals, then 2, then 3 and up to 15 walk by.. then the sudden glimpse of a Man falling first as a heavy tree follows.. right past me out of my static picture view.. other feet with sandals quickly come into view.. shins in motion, as if they are beating the man that just feel.. then, they finally back away a little.

The man that fell slowly comes back into my frame, my view… feet, calfs, legs, mid-section, chest, and finally head, all in a pale white vest or garment which is soaked red.  He is on His knees and bleeding profusely. Suffering much, yet He spots me and reaches out in the gentlest and loving of manners to bless me, and is suddenly roughly pulled up along with the cross-beam which is violently placed back on His Shoulders.

Then, off He goes as I see His feet disappear in my limited view. Followed by many others until there is a last. and I am left with my view of the road and ground level again - nothing there but the road and the sky, and a strange type of peace.

A reminder that what Jesus did 2,000 years ago is as real as what happened in my life today or yesteray - as is His Love and Mercy - and that I need to pay attention and make it count every day - for it is not just something that happened a long time ago - His sacrifice reaches across the ages to the end of time.

As it is always slightly irritating to pick up things from your side - the female side I mean - your post, Mrs. F, irritably made me realize I’d never quite thought through the, well, emotional & I suppose intellectual sense of God that I’ve had, through the many decades of praying to Him.

Provoked by you thus to consider it, I conclude the closest to identifying my sense of He-Who-Is when I petition or adore or contemplate, is my own father. It was from him I learned what (little - not his fault) I know of love, which was always mixed - perhaps better, expressed - also by expectation.

Given, however, steady failure to meet the expectations of our Father, I expect this would have led to despair but for Christ’s Passion. Through it, the consequences of the failures are hard to avoid, but instead of despair is the paradoxical grasp that He thought & thinks I am, like you, somehow worth what He went through. That strikes me as preposterous in every way, save that, pondering it, it doesn’t matter what I think; & so, by His Grace of course & all that, my soul defers, & with something like real hope (of which as Chesterton once observed only holds when a thing is hopeless).

Hate sounding so dutifully orthodox (even while hoping I am), but I also always begin prayer by, well, casting my heart over to the Holy Ghost to cleanse the prayers’ debris, that what little is left will touch whatever called it forth.