Sadly, our Bishop here in Lafayette, Indiana (Bishop Timothy Doherty) said absolutely nothing.  Not in letters, not in the Catholic newspaper, nothing at all. I am ashamed of him.

Nothing here either at church, Diocese of Boston.  Cardinal Sean did speak to us the previous weekend (via video) about Ballot Question #2-or the so-called “Death With Dignity Act.”  That message dealt soley with the ballot question though, he did not address any of the other issues.  The Cardinal will be “tweeting” today.  I think I am supposed to be happy that he’s reaching out to the people through social media, but I’m not.  For some reason it bothers me.  I don’t want my leaders, political or religious to tweet, facebook or make the rounds on talk shows.  I guess I am hoplessly uncool.

Thank you Simcha.  Though my mother was from a different “faith tradition”, she would say how great it was that the Roman Catholic Church was always consistent in their strong stand on the sanctity of human life.  All Christians should be as well.  Although I do not consider myself a one-issue voter, the FIRST thing I look at when considering a candidate is where they stand on the whole array of life issues.  I figure if they can reason and pray through those issues and come up with the “correct” moral answers (especially in today’s culture), I can trust their decision making process on most other issues.  And, even if I don’t always agree with them on the other issues, I can live with those decisions if they are “good” on the sanctity of human life issues.  After all, what is more important?  Although Romney may not be my dream candidate, I trust him to do things like reinstate the Mexico City policy http://engagefamilyminute.com/2012/10/engaging-weekend-romney-will-reinstate-mexico-city-policy-gallup-finds-only-3-4-of-u-s-adults-are-lgbt-more-than-2000-pro-lifers-call-planned-parenthood/

I perceive change to be in the air.  Bishops are beginning to emphasize the Sacrament of Reconciliation and a return to our roots.       
                               
The realization that, in the end, one will face Our Lord in judgement ought to keep us focused.

They did not talk about it in Mass this weekend at our parish but they have been talking about it for weeks and we had prayer vigils with the Archbishop etc.  I plan on voting for life, marriage and religious liberty as show so beautifully in this Test of Fire video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iiG9NMkPhus&feature=plcp Keep praying all day because we need all the help we can get.

Lucky you and your parish/diocese, Simcha! Well, guess I should be glad our sixty-something year-old priest said ANYTHING at all last Saturday afternoon about the issues pertinent to this election (and prolly did so only because our Bishop ordered it), but all he said was, “I’m voting for my religion - I’ll vote to protect religious freedom.”  NO reminder about the life/abortion, or same-sex marriage issues at all - or ever - not since he took over the much-missed older priest who was forced to retire due to health reasons this past spring.  He even was wishy-washy enough to say that he couldn’t tell the candidates’ true stances on being pro-life or not.  He doesn’t give the most interesting or relevant or profound homilies, so not really a big surprise.  I will just have to keep praying for him for true inspiration from the Holy Spirit, I guess.  At least his masses are not outrageously modern for a Novus Ordo mass (of which I hear and read horror stories in some parishes!).

No mention of the letter during Mass at my parish. I’m not surprised. Disappointed, but not surprised.

Nothing at my parish either, but to be fair, our pastor was on retreat & we had a visiting priest fill in.Still, he should have said something.

I just wanted to tell you all that MANY Canadians—myself included—are praying like mad for you!!! God’s Holy Will be done in everything. I am praying that good will win out, but I also feel like I should remind everyone that in the event it doesn’t, don’t be surprised; as far as we know, satan still has hold over this century. This could be one of his last desperate attempts to lead souls astray and racing down the road to perdition.

Pray, pray, pray!

Our Bishop wrote a letter that was inserted in the bullitin.  It was long and indirect, so I suppose most people ignored it.  I am getting increasingly frustrated with clergy who are not able to state truths briefly and simply.  Why do they muddy the waters with their ramblings…how about a new class at seminary entitled, “Say it in 1 paragraph!”

Our pastor takes the hands off approach.  He doesn’t say a word about politics.  However, he lets our pro-life group distribute real pro-life voters’ guides after all the Masses (and reminds parishioners in the bulletin to support the important cause of life in our country by taking a voters’ guide), as opposed to the ridiculous seamless garment crap put out by the Pennsylvania Catholic Conference - the voters’ guides with the official approval of the Archdiocese of Philadelphia.    Quite honestly, I’d rather have a pastor who spoke forcefully on life issues from the pulpit and let people find out about the candidates on their own, but I’ll take what we can get.  Especially since the church leadership - and I’m under the not so mealy mouthed Chaput - puts out wishy washy voters’ guides that could justify the vote of an Obama supporter.

Yes, I’ve heard the five rules for writing a sermon expressed as “The Five B’s”—Be Brief, Boy, Be Brief.

Just had power and internet access returned to us after a week, so I am just reading about how the American Bishops made this bold move. If I hadn’t read it, I would never had known. I was in Church with my family on Thursday for All Saints, Friday for All Souls and Sunday for regular Mass. Not 1 word about the election, just our regular intention for the respect for life that is read every week during the Prayer of the Faithful. The Church had no power either, (Mass by candlelight, so pretty), so maybe Father didn’t get the memo? I am learning after 3 years here in Central NJ that this is just how the Church is here, rather sad. I attended the funeral Mass for Barbara Curtis on Saturday in the Diocese of Arlington (the place I moved here from), and it reminded me how different and reverent our Mass is supposed to be. Those of you living in truly authentic dioceses, where the Mass is reverent and special and not a big free for all, count your blessings.

Our priest didn’t read a letter, but he talked about the 3 non-negotiables that we need to consider when voting. He said “You may say ‘He’s telling us how to vote’ Well, yeah, I am.” And so what? He didn’t endorse Romney. Some one could hear the message and vote for a 3rd party—if they’re jerks who don’t care if our Catholic schools and charities close. We’re a conservative town in NJ, so our votes will most likely be drowned out by all the Democrats in this state. I hope priests spoke about this in parishes where it will have a real impact.

I heard no letter at mass this weekend… however, we also had no power at the church or rectory due to Hurricane Sandy, so it’s possible they didn’t “get the memo,” as it were.

Am I being cynical when I note that the bishops finally say something when the fight finally comes to their front door? When it involves money? I feel like the bishops are finally noticing that the American Church is bleeding to death because they are noticing a little blood on their shoes, seeping under the door. Where have they been??

This is an encouraging development.  It’s a free country, and we have the right to vote for whatever pro-death-and-other-evils candidate we like.  But to do so while calling ourselves Catholic is just plain dishonest.

@Katie - yeah, I know how you feel.  When Abp. Chaput put the blame on the Catholics in the pew for allowing the Dems to embrace abortion, I wanted to throw a brick at him.    Here in Philadelphia, we’ve gotten nothing every election from our bishops but blah, blah, blah, social justice, blah, blah, blah, abortion, blah, blah, blah, vouchers, blah, blah, immigration.  And that’s exactly what the Pennsylvania Catholic Conference did in their voters’ guides.  Again.  The truth is the abortion loving Democratic party has been aided and abetted by the Catholic hierarchy.  At least here in the northeastern part of the country.  It presumably was quite a bit different in Colorado for Archbishop Chaput to have uttered such a thought.

Nope, nothing here either.  We had stand up comedy and operatic singing.  During the school year we switch from the ghetto parish to the yuppie parish for catechism.  The yupsters have very delicate sensibilities—so much so, that they only need to put aside 30 minutes a Saturday for confessions.  On the bright side, our newly ordained priest at the university parish passed out cards on voting in support of life.  It got him in a bit of hot water I’m told, but apparently he didn’t care.  I need to have him over for dinner :)!Plus, I really should make it up to him for calling him Arty Farty in the fourth grade.  He is now a very noble and distinguished, “Fr. Art”, and didn’t deserve that.

This is to make up for the other comment:

“The God who gave us Life gave us Liberty”

—Thomas Jefferson

Thank you, June1!  At work, am saying several mysteries of the rosary via help of my Rosary mp3 program online.  Very serious need for this - and I hope a Romney landslide happens (as some who are deconstructing the flawed poll results are predicting with a lot of confidence).  Whatever happens, God’s will be done.

It was long and indirect, so I suppose most people ignored it.

Same story in New Orleans.  The archbishop’s only public statement was a verbose and opaque column printed in the archdiocesan paper.  However, we were blessed at Sunday mass with an excellent homily from a visiting priest who said what needed to be said.

No letter at the parish we attended on Sunday, but we went to the daily Mass that is offered at my husband’s workplace (he works at a military base and we’re blessed that a deacon from our parish works there and coordinates this), and the deacon’s homily today rang true—no matter who wins this election, we will have to continue to fight the good fight.  Every day we make a decision—will I work for good, or for evil?—and it doesn’t matter who’s in the White House when it comes to our eternal struggle.

“And heck, I hope and pray that Romney wins, but he’s not exactly Leo the Great.”

Agreed.  If Romney had met Attila, he probably would have negotiated that Attila should sack half of Rome and leave the other half for Bain Capital…

We are very blessed that Bishop Loverde takes a strong stand for life and religious liberty.  Here in the Diocese of Arlington (VA), a letter was read at all Masses on Sunday.

Like some of the other commentators to this article, I also live in Central Jersey. And New Jersey is a liberal state. All I heard this morning (election day) at mass from the priest regarding the elections was ‘keep this day in your prayers.’ Clearly, this statement provides no moral guidance. I also noted this morning a daily communicant with a pro-Obama sticker in his car. I suppose a lack of clear guidance from our pastors may be in part to blame for this. This suggests to me that this individual sees no problem in voting for a candidate that wants to impose the HHS mandate on the Catholic Church.
It is true that there are newer bishops that look more like shepherds, but distressfully, there are still a lot of old time bishops that look more like hirelings who do not want to upset the apple cart. I agree that things are changing, but there is still a long way to go. May God have mercy on us on this election day!

Those who take Catholic Social Teaching seriously will be supporting the US Catholic Bishops in:

- healthcare for all - CST regards healthcare as a right for all. The HSS mandate is because of lack of a single-payer system due to republication opposition.

- action on human-caused climate change

- higher taxation for the rich

- welfare for the poor

- not engaging in unjust wars

- humane immigration policies

- tighter gun control

in addition to being pro-life.

@Leo - do you work for the Pennsylvania Catholic Conference?  ;)

I voted and they gave me a sticker. I won’t tell you how I voted, but if the bishops were to find out, I think they would be pleased.  God help our country!

Simcha,
  Your vote counts because you are in a toss up state, New Hampshire; in many states, the outcome is not changed by voting because the electoral votes are a given… which makes the only obligation….other things on the ballot if there are any of importance.  See map…

  http://elections.huffingtonpost.com/2012/romney-vs-obama-electoral-map

  Papal warnings of the past envisioned popular votes…not electoral.

@Leo
CST, as you define it, has all the debateable topics as non-negotiables, and life thrown in at the end for good measure. The name of this should be PCST, or Pseudo-Catholic Social Teaching.
Let’s try Real Catholic Doctrine, and see what we get.
-Pro Life, form natural conception to natural death
-Freedom of Religion, not of worship
-Charitable works for the poor are delegated to the Religious institutions and other private organizations, not to be run by the national government
With consideration for the following groups of people, while allowing for debate upon the methods of accomplishing this:
    -The Poor
    -Legal Immigrants
Any thing else is outside the purview of religion, and should not be treated from such an angle

Our priest this Sunday said we had an obligation to vote but i won’t tell you who to vote for. No instruction on protecting religious freedom, life or marriage. Our priests were instructed by our pastoral center to keep politics out of their churches by the chancellor since we only have a diocesan administrator. But this is no different than when we had a bishop.  We have priests who don’t wear their collars unless they’re at a democratic party event then they do so as to give the approval withou saying anything.

@CatholicMinesotan who said:

“-Charitable works for the poor are delegated to the Religious institutions and other private organizations, not to be run by the national government”

It’s not an either/or.

Pope Benedict begs to differ with you on the role of government

Caritas in Veritate http://www.vatican.va/holy_father/benedict_xvi/encyclicals/documents/hf_ben-xvi_enc_20090629_caritas-in-veritate_en.html

“25. From the social point of view, systems of protection and welfare, ... are finding it hard and could find it even harder in the future to pursue their goals of true social justice in today’s profoundly changed environment. ... These processes have led to a downsizing of social security systems ... with consequent grave danger for the rights of workers, for fundamental human rights and for the solidarity associated with the traditional forms of the social State.

Systems of social security can lose the capacity to carry out their task ... Here budgetary policies, with cuts in social spending ... can leave citizens powerless in the face of old and new risks; such powerlessness is increased by the lack of effective protection on the part of workers’ associations. ... The repeated calls issued within the Church’s social doctrine, beginning with Rerum Novarum, for the promotion of workers’ associations that can defend their rights must therefore be honoured today even more than in the past, as a prompt and far-sighted response to the urgent need for new forms of cooperation at the international level, as well as the local level.”

I am a Catholic Priest and I support the President for his concern for the poor, the rights of minorities, and his ability to lead our country. It is not the role of the Church to tell people how to vote or to influence their vote. Our role is to proclaim the Gospel and to transform society by our lives of faith. We should not interfere with Politics – for that is the art of the possible instead of the eternal. Also the church forbids Priests now from holding office where as in the Medieval Period Priests served as a type of vassal of the state. I think many Catholics these days would like to return to the “good old days” of the middle ages when the Pope was telling kings what to do – the reality is that isn’t going to happen and we must embrace democracy and support the poor. In the Gospel Christ asks I was hungry and you gave me something, I was in prison and you visited me – not issues of religion did he ask for the final judgment but issues of justice for all.

Simcha, here at St. Charles Borromeo parish in Meredith,NH, we also heard the letter read and it was included in our bulletin. I do have to say that we’ve been blessed by God to have the pastor that we have. In the last few months, he has been so good in emphasizing the importance of this election concerning marriage, abortion, religious liberty and speech. Never demonizing those on the left, he explains why these issues are so important to all and not just to Catholics. I’ve been to several parishes due to my work hours and have finally been able to come Mass regularly again in my home parish at St. Charles. It was good to come back. Some of the parishes where I’ve had to attend Mass made me realize what a gift my own parish is compared to the others. May God bless this parish and our pastor.

The Catholic Church IS NOT ABOUT SOCIAL JUSTICE!!!!!!! It is about saving SOULS and of course—protecting the UNBORN!!! So Fr. Joseph you need a refresher course. The church supposed to do the job of the social worker—people go to school then get paid for that occupation. Try to adjust your thinking.

Fr. Joel, President Obama has no problem with infanticide.  Doesn’t this bother you at all? So what can we call “care for the poor”?  Eliminating “the poor”?  Who is poorer than the one in imminent danger of losing his or her life?  Abortion is legal through all nine months in this country.  When Jesus spoke about “the least of these” do you think a baby would qualify for that position?  Jesus was indeed kind and understanding of his little ones and their many worries, but He didn’t have a lot of patience for their money squabbles.  He had even less patience for their religious leaders who talked a big talk, but ended up being parasites on the backs of the poor.  It seems that his patience had worn the most thin for those in leadership positions who failed to give moral guidance and scandalized the ones who depended on them for this.  That’s when he brought up mill stones.

Maybe Fr. Joel should do a Google images search of abortion.  How about a short visit to the Priests For Life site?  Maybe talk to that nurse who held those little children in her arms in Illinois so their last hours wouldn’t be alone in a linen closet.  *Anyone* who aides and abets these human rights violations qualifies as a monster in my book.

Fr. Joel+: With all due respect, the Church has a duty to instruct the baptized and unbaptized about the contents of divine law. In the Sermon on the Mount, Jesus teaches: “Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven” (Matt 5:19). The question for Catholics is what to do when both parties fail to obey God. The Church teaches then we need to act with prudence and weigh which goods may be best preserved and how they rank in importance to each other.

The Church teaches that certain acts are intrinsically evil. That means cooperation with them is contrary to friendship with God. Abortion, sterilization, and contraception, are among such acts. This is the teaching of the USCCB and of the Church Universal. Maybe you reject this teaching. But that’s not your place. Like your parishioners, you are called to apprentice yourself to the truth of the gospel, and the grace of ordination does not exempt you from obedience.

About the rights of the poor and minorities. Over 50 million children have been killed through abortion since 1973. About 10 million of these are black children or 25% of the today’s black population.

Is universal healthcare desirable? Sure. But not at any price. Maybe the other party distasteful because of their policies about taxes, insurance, and war, but the policy of abortion on demand for any reason can’t be an ok tradeoff for us to have a welfare state and universal insurance.

FR. Joel—-I meant to say that the Holy Roman Catholic Church IS NOT SUPPOSED TO TAKE THE PLACE OF THE TRAINED SOCIAL WORKER. Christ refused to be a bread king and said that the poor would always be with us. He came to redeem and help us save our souls. You must separate the two causes. Souls that exist ETERNALLY take priority.

Letter from Bishops read at Mass this past Sunday????  Not at my mass in Diocese of Buffalo.  The church is finally starting to realize the mistake of embracing the liberals, but might be too late.

We have enough religion to make us hate, but not enough to make us love one another.—Jonathan Swift

If you pick up a starving dog and make him prosperous, he will not bite you. This is the principal difference between a dog and a man. —Mark Twain

I’ve got Jesus’s name on a wallet insert
and “Hell is for Queers” on the back of my shirt
and I uphold the Law,
for grace has a flaw:
the Church must have someone to drag through the dirt.
-—Michael R. Burch

Morality is simply the attitude we adopt towards people we personally dislike.—Oscar Wilde

There are some people who, if they don’t already know, you can’t tell ‘em. -—Yogi Berra

Whenever a man does a thoroughly stupid thing, it is always from the noblest motives.—Oscar Wilde

Hymn 43 Make Me a Channel, 2012 version
(proposed to replace the now obsolete Prayer of St. Francis)
.
Make me a channel of the Right,
Where there is birth control then I shall fight,
Of greed and gold I have nothing to say,
Of waterboarding I looked the other way.
.
We’ll master all our sheep with the threat of Hell,
What to think and how to vote we’ll surely tell,
That we’re persecuted like the Saints of old,
That our freedoms taken by the Fed’s so bo-o-old!
.
Make me a channel of the Right,
Guns and smoke and war and the culture of life,
Though human kindness does still have its place,
In rich men’s power is where we’ll gain our Grace.

Did I miss something? Since when did gun control become a Catholic social issue? I would think that encouraging non-violence is a key goal, but gun control does not translate into non-violence. It just further sharpens the line between predators and prey. Leo, have you taken a look at Chicago lately to see how gun control is treating people? To put it gently, it sucks.

People in my parish walked out of church when Father was reading the letter.  Absolutely too sad.

In response to the comments above:
- I did not state that I was for abortion or some how for the “culture of death” 
- My concern for the poor is due to the fact that I minister to a lot of the people in the local area who have lost their jobs due to the economy (and in reference to social workers doing the work with people – sometimes the social worker does not have the time to work in depth with their clients and it helps if the priest speaks as an advocate for the individual and can aid in the healing process – that is why I strongly recommend young men in seminary and those who are in a parish to take courses in pastoral counseling and general psychology so they not only have the doctrinal understanding of the faith but can apply it in a pastoral way and be effective)
- It is not a sin to vote for a democratic President even though he may disagree with some of the churches teachings (before people start quoting the Code of Canon Law on this principle – it only states that those who actively procure an abortion or participate in the action incur excommunication so voting would not actively fall under this category and I have my J.C.D so I can speak with authority on this matter)
- Being a catholic democrat is not a problem and I wanted others to know that some of the priests do support the President and we are not somehow less catholic than the bishops or the Pope – we follow our conscience informed by the reading of the Gospel and in the inspiration of the Spirit

Fr. Joel,  why do you not also support romney’s concern for the unborn, and the loss of religious liberty taking place in this country? We do not yearn for the “good old days” because popes told kings what to do; if there’s any yearning at all, it’s for priests who teach the fundamental truths of the Catholic non-negotiables: life, marriage, freedom to do what is morally right (and not be coerced into participating in grave evil).

- healthcare for all—abortion and contraception are not healthcare, and please, step up and pay for as many folks as you’d like to take care of

- action on human-caused climate change—uh, ok let’s all watch the weather channel together

- higher taxation for the rich—how high and what’s rich?  again, please step up and write a check for as many of the “poor” that you’d like to help out

- welfare for the poor—how much have you given to charity this year?

- not engaging in unjust wars—thank you for realizing there are just wars

- humane immigration policies—how many illegals would you like to shelter in your home? oh, wait - i wouldn’t want you to be a law breaker

- tighter gun control—how about tighter social teaching control, easy access leads to liberalism/leftism which is deadly

  All over.  Obama wins.  Bishops must turn to the pro bono lawyers not an election to fight the insurance mandate.  I think abortion numbers could have risen slowly with republican cuts in Medicaid which pays for 37% of births in the US.  Romney’s raise of medicaid by inflation plus one percent was an effective cut since both medical and nursing home inflation is double normal inflation.

Romans 13:1-2: “Everyone must submit himself to the government authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established. The authorities that exist have been established by God.”

Therefore, God picked Obama tonight. Time to suck it up.

how soon these will be all over…. most probably it will be less than eighteen thousand days left for obama to stand before the judgement throne of Christ and answer for the massacre of unborn babies

Fr. Joel—it is misguided people like you that lead the flock astray. You will answer to God for your incorrect way of thinking. Sad that you are allowed to be in this role. Yes, it is a sin to vote Democratic which is a vote for abortion and the homosexual agenda…. both of which are contrary to God’s law. You should pray that you learn this before it is too late.

@Fr. Joel - if a politician votes to spend my tax dollars paying for someone else’s abortion, that politician is participating in the procurement of an abortion.

Isaias 65.

Eileen is correct—thank you. You are wiser than the priest. Fr. Joel is also not in harmony with the Catholic Church and its Pope,  Bishops, and its teachings. He should be dismissed to find work in a social service capacity since he prefers that cause.
Let us consider if we would find him outside an abortion clinic protesting—and then voting for Obama…hmm. 

Silence in our town of Billerica Ma. Didn’t here a peep about intrinsic evils from Cardinal Sean O’Malley and not from any of our pastors in town except perhaps one. One pastor even thinks that our religious liberties are not even threatened! He obviously was an Obama supporter! Sure they all talked about question 2 (doctor assisted suicide) but that is where it stopped. Apparently they saw no connection with the current administration’s attack on life and question 2 on our ballot here in Ma.
Still waiting for some signs of Spring in the church here in Ma. It is still a cold long winter that has just gotten longer.

John 19:11 - “You would have no power over me at all unless it were given to you from above. So the one who handed me over to you has the greater sin.”
For all those who didn’t vote for Romney because he wasn’t perfect. You’ve handed Jesus (us) to be crucified again. No, no, it’s ok - we’ll carry the cross for you too, God knows you’re too weak and too cowardly to look death in the eye!

I pray our bishops continue to speak up clearly and rouse, encourage and LEAD their sheep. As a sheep with her eyes open, there is nothing more discouraging than seeing the wolf approach while the shepherd sleeps. Pray for our bishops, especially Bishop Dolan!!

Maria—very good comment. I am in Texas and if our bishops do not start speaking up STRONGER and EDUCATING people on the Faith—we will have more like Fr. Joel who think it is Ok to vote Democratic.  Cardinal Dolan did not help with the Al Smith dinner invitation to Obama. Very bad example.

RCa have clearly spoken in the presidential election—they voted for the better candidate—Barack Obama and they rejected the shrill, partisan, irrational rantings of the bishops   No bishop, no human being can honestly say that a vote for Obama puts one’s immortal soul in jepordy.  RC saw that comment for what it was—nonsense.  Such things are between God and an indivisual.  No bishop stands between God and any person.  It is Obama who will stand for the preferential option for the poor.  It is Obama who will pursue the the social justice teachings of the RCC.  Romney made it clear that he ahd no interest in 47% of the American people, who he described as irresponsible, who they are they are entitled to food, etc. Romney as POTUS would have worked for a preferential option for the rich.  The majority of RCs voted for the better candidate.

No letter read at Mass this past Sunday in the Carmelite parish I attended in the Archdiocese of Newark.  Just a mention in the homily to vote for “our culture” (what does that mean?)  It’s not my normal parish, but with gas shortages after Hurricane Sandy, we had to walk to the nearest church.

I am a pretty hard core orthodox Catholic. Let’s just face some facts here:
1) As priest preyed on kids and Bishops didn’t do their jobs, the Church has lost nearly all of its spiritual authority with the culture. Period.
2) Most so-called Catholics are no more Catholic than the Ayatolla. They are cultural Catholics who were baptized and then pretty much walked away. The real number of real Catholics in America is about 1/5 of the so-called Catholics.
3) Bishops simply don’t have the guts to deal with pseudo-Catholic politicians.
4) Priest simply can’t be counted on in most cases to carry the water of the Faith. They are too dependent on “approval”.

So we have wishy-washy Bishops, wimpy priests and radically secularized laity. Not all of these three groups, but the majority.  Until (if) these three get some guts, we are reduced to private piety and a total loss to “impact the temporal order”.

P.S. And “Fr. Joel” is no priest-just a poser.

Lisa—what are you drinking this morning? No RC’s in my family nor parish voted that way. Get real.
You speak of Pelosi, Biden and Kennedy “catholics” dear. All self excommunicated folks.

Agreed Dan—we need Bishops THAT WILL STAND UP! Grow backbone!

Cardinal Dolan has already sent congrats—to BO. GAG!!.

Patt,

The National Catholic Register (you know this publication) is reporting that RC voted for Obam 54%-45%.  Its not what I am drinking.  Its what EWTN and the National Cattholic Register are reporting.

Suggestions:

1. Form a for-profit political arm that CAN tell Catholics how to vote and why.

2. Publicly Excommunicate and political leader who publicly dissents, forwards legislation, votes for anti-Catholic teaching.

3. Require priests to follow thru on not giving sacraments to any politician who claims the mantle of “Catholic” while publicly fighting Her non-negotiable truths.

We’ll see if any of our leaders have what it takes to be a real leader or just a black-cloaked “politically correct” hack.

In reality, we are back to the 15th century when it comes to clerical impotence. They sold their “birthright” for porridge. Now we all have to eat the slop.

Only a handful of Bishops spoke out—about 5 while Dolan was dining with Obama (Al Smith dinner).
Our shepherds are not doing their job.
Guess they do not think they must answer to God for the neglect.
St Luke warns: “To whomever more is given—of him more is required.”

remmy ,
After changing the words to that overused hymn, please change the melody,too.It’s sappy. Thanks!

Dan,

No one can force anyone else to votre a particular way.  RCs, lke Americans in general, are not single issue voters.  And certainly in this economic climate most voters, including RCs are concerned about issues that affect their financial situation.  Thankfully, we vots by individual secret ballot.  Yes, a PAC could be formed, the PAC can publish its positions on issues, people could be excommunicated, etc, etc.  But that jsut may drive more people away.  The issue is that the RCC in the US has aligned itself with the most extreme right wing of the GOP and clearly the majortiy of RC voters reject this. More extremism is not going to result in more RCs voting the way the bishops want. In addition, as the Hispanic vote in the US grows and comes t the polls, an issue that will resonate is which political party is friendly to that population.  The GOP has royally alienated the Latino population.  If you followed the analysis of voting last night, you know that Latinos overwhelmingly voted for Obama. I live in the Southwest and know that Latinos in my state (25% of the state;s population voted DEM). And my guess is that the RC bishops are not going to do anything to office holders who have the Latino vote.  That Latino population is too important in filling the pews and collection plates for the bishops to alienate. Already in my state lots of Latinos have left the RCC for evangelical churches.  The bishops do not want to lose more of this population.

@fred

the policies I listed are those of US Conference of Catholic Bishops.

or perhaps you did not know ...

Thank you Fr.Joel. Weekly practicing Catholic here who voted for Obama and makes no bones about it. Our beloved Catholic Church does not need to end up like our evangelical brothers as it pertains to politics.

“Practicing Catholic” voted for such evil? You need to practice more, friend. A Catholic does not vote for an evil man who endorses infanticide after the fact-he supports killing babies who survive the initial attempt to murder them in their mother’s womb..you know? Like Jesus was in the womb of the Virgin Mary and was as much God the Son in her chaste womb as He was outside of her womb?

And you voted for an evil man who thinks sexual perversion is the same as Holy Matrimony.

I fear, friend, that you have a false god-government social programs-those are bad for the poor and the whole country-but that is an argument for another day.

Fr. Joel’s comment of 11/6 does not seem to see the need for the priest to offer MORAL GUIDANCE. Does he see himself as just another social worker?

Fr. Joel explanation of his “beliefs” gets worse.  I didn’t read him saying he followed the Magisterium and the teachings of the Church but he followed his consience.  Does he understand what a properly formed conscience is?  If he wants to be a social worker so be it alnd allow someone educated in Catholicism to give us the moral gluidance so needed in the U.S. today

Some on this site are speaking as though their political party—is their RELIGION. They put that false god before them.
Also, the R-Party is not extreme (in fact that is a laughable statement)—the last bunch of presidential candidates were all moderates.  Not much difference between them than the Democrats except for the abortion issue.

Many Catholics do not properly form their conscience—that includes priests. Yet to brag about it and want praise is absurd. Please do not flaunt your ignorance and lack of a moral compass.

The Catholic Church is not a one party church – we need to look at the entire picture. It is not just about Abortion verses the Poor or some other dichotomy you would like to draw up but about Justice in the order of the world. I believe that that the President has a good heart and cares for the needs of people and will make decisions for the Common Good rather than a special wing of his party. He is not perfect nor are any of us. Thank you Richard and Lisa for giving voice to this side in a respectful way.

Voting for a Demo is not a sin. To those who say you will burn in hell for it that is just wrong to intimidate others in the name of Religion. For those who asked about me speaking on moral issues um let me think – that’s what the Homily is about to instruct and exhort the community to live the Gospel out in their Lives and to be Jesus to those who have not encountered his Church for we are the body of Christ. Of course I celebrate Mass – if I didn’t I would be in big trouble

And as a note just because you may disagree with a Priest on an issue that does not give you the license to disrespect him

And for you who think I am a fake – I was ordained by three Bishops (one was a good friend from Europe) and I have extensive theological and canon law studies- so I am no fake

Glad I am not in your parish and listening to your mis-guided thinking.
“Good hearted”  (Prostestant talk) president?—wait until he gets through with this country in the next 4 years, you dreamer. Gasoline prices will be higher (how is that helping the poor—doubled since he has been in office), jobless rates rising (helping the poor?), economy in the worse mess in history (helping the poor?)—do you read the papers?  He has also frequently broken Constitutional law (good hearted?)
But baby MURDER is the greatest crime of this “good hearted” man.  So explain and excuse yourself all you want, but can you give yourself absolution for your lack of concern for the babies being MURDERED by the cruelest of deaths—-by this “good hearted” man as you call him. PLEASE!!

Patt,

The majority of Ameican RCs voted for our President because those RCs are smart and educated.  Secondly, if you are so unhappy with Obama, please feel free to move to Syria where the president there is sure to be more your cup of tea.

I heard zip from Mass at the university Catholic center. The bishops may issue directives, but as always individuals—priests, in this case—feel completely at liberty to ignore them.

Bravo to all the priests who understand that like the rest of us they owe obedience only to God.  And not to some guy who sends out GOP trash talk disguised as RC teaching

Read Mark Shea’s article on New Advent.  Neither candidate was worthy of the office.  I think he hit the nail on the head.
Ah, decisions, decisions…which bubble to fill in? Would you prefer a deadly case of:
Diarrhea?
or
Vomit?
Mr. Bain Capital?
or
Mr. Partial-birth-abortion?
Robber Baron
or
Representative of the greatest holocaust in the history of man.
Luckily, because I live in a blue state, it was a no-brainer.  NEITHER.
@Fr. Joel, please refresh my memory as to how Barrack Obama has helped the poor.  How can you trust a man who is okay with infanticide?  Also, I really prefer the way Mother Teresa approached her duty.  She was *very* clear about stating that the M. of Charity were not social workers.  She said they were fighting abortion with adoption, and even breaking down the barriers of the caste system this way.  She was reluctant to allow her orphans to be adopted here because of our soul deforming materialism, and said that “it is a great poverty” that a child must be killed for the convenience of another.
With Obama being the most aggressively pro abortion president in history, please do tell us how he helps the poorest of the poor.  (Who is poorer than a naked infant whose head is descending toward a spine severing pair of scissors?)

Anna Lisa,

Obama won on the demographics.  As one GOP fundraiser said, Latinos may have been disillusioned by Obama, but they were absolutely terrified of Romney.  So by a margin of more than 70% of the Latino (largerly RC vote) went to Obama.  The African-American vote went to Obama, 55% of women voted for Obama, 74% of Asians voted for Obama, overwhelmingly voters under the age of 40 voted for Obama.  RCs by a margin of 52%-45% voted for Obama.  Jews supported Obam by about 80% (Jews are the “Ohio of ethnic groups. 90% of Jews are registered voters & of that 90%, 96% vote).  Who voted for Romney—angry old uneducated white guys. And they are no longer a majority in the US.  The GOP put forth a candidate who failed to articulate any reason, much less any compelling reason, why he should be POTUS. The GOP put forth a candidate thye did not much like.  Romney, the former Gov of Mass was overwhelmingly rejected in Mass.  Paul Ryan was overwhelming rejected as VP in his home state of WI. Illinois on the other overwhelmingly embraced Obama as a favorite son.  The GOP will continue to fail as long as it alientes the vast majority of women, young people and fast-growing population segments—Latinos, African-Americans and Asians.  Just in looking at the videos of each campaign rallies and gatherings the stark difference was very apparent.  Romney rallies were filled with older white people.  Obama rallies were packed with young people, with women, and with lots and lots of people of color.  Obama ran a smarter, more articulate, more honest, more postive campaign.  And it showed on Nov 6th.

Lisa,
My “Latino”* household did not vote for Obama. We don’t care if he is feted as the great messiah of the poor. How does tripling the debt, and gas prices help the poor?  How did Obama help unemployment and all the “new poor” on food stamps?  He did such a poor job, that they were logically TERRIFIED of Romney (and rightly so). *Who* are the poorest of the poor?  Those who fret about free healthcare?—Or those who will be denied it completely and be brutally murdered, but have no voice which can be heard.  Poverty makes scared people do scarey things, like voting for a fox to take care of the hen house instead of the Chupacabra.
*PS Hispanics really dislike being called “Lateenos”.

Yes, Obama is a great friend of Planned Parenthood, whose founder stated:  “The most merciful thing a large family can do is kill it’s youngest member.”—Margaret Sanger
-and-(not without irony)
“We don’t want the word to get out that we are trying to exterminate the negro population.”  She goes on to instruct in her newsletter that this can best be accomplished by hiring black ministers who can be front men in helping our society rid itself of such “undesirables”.
Margaret Sanger has had stunning success.
Our Planned Parenthood is located in the barrio.
Where is yours located?

It’s a mad world.  A mad, mad world.

Anna lisa—your Latino family is not the center of the universe. I admire your faith, but you have no right to hold your famaly and yourself above every other Latino in the country.
.

Pray tell how I’m holding my Hispanic family above others. Google at what rate black/brown babies were aborted in New York city as opposed to white babies, and tell me that the new solution to poverty is *not* to abort children of color.

Lisa Kaiser-
-what a guilty conscience you have for doing the wrong thing. If it makes you feel better—take it out on me, however when I stand before God I won’t be telling Him I voted to re-elect a baby killer—
in the meanwhile defend your case before God with your faulty reasons for supporting a pro abortion president.

Anna Lisa—wish I knew you—love your posts. Good for you see through the Democratic farce.

Pat: Your premise is that the President supports unlimited abortion so he harms all children by virtue of this action therefore making him a “baby killer”
this conclusion is not a sound argument for if the President believed in “killing all children” he would not have any children himself and he would practice immoralities himself. We know this to be not true because he leads a respectable lifestyle and encourages his young daughters to live moral lives. When the Secret Service were involved in that scandal earlier in the year he was the one who called them out on it to live with integrity. 
The President has never advocated a rank Epicureanism or rank heedinism rather that of a virtue ethic of Aristotle where virtue and vice are balanced to reach harmony which leads to peace. St. Thomas uses much of Aristotle in his writings.
Can we stop the name calling at the democrats who have been brave enough to announce their support on this site – it really doesn’t help the conversation - our intrinsic desire as Catholic Christians is to enter the joy of heaven and that is what we all are seeking and we all strive for that no matter how much we may disagree with each other. We are all brothers in Christ.

Trying to use pretty words to convince me that babies are not being murdered by a Democratic Party that wanted God removed from thier platform—well, I am not buying. Calling an unborn child—tissue—or Euthanasia “death with dignity”—more words to hide the truth. So give it up. Face reality as God will demand of you at your particular judgement. Prepare yourself and waste none of your feeble arguments on me. I was taught right from wrong long ago—you must have been absent that day. You have eyes but will not see, and ears-but will not hear.

It is our Bishops’ responsibility to lead us, and it is our responsibility to honor them, as our Fathers.  We have become a culture that casually slanders those to whom we owe the greatest duty of fidelity -our parents, our priests, our pastors, our bishops.  We cannot, in faith hope charity justice prudence temperance fortitude, simultaneously lament the state of the Church and tear her to pieces with our own lack of fidelity to those God (yes, God) has given us as shepherds.

I am a Catholic regular church goer and serious about my Catholic faith. I voted for Obama because many of his visions resonate more with social teachings of the Catholic Church compared with that of Romney. Using the “principle of lesser evil”’ I discerned that Obama is a lesser evil than Romney who does not have a compassion to the poor.

Anna Lisa,  Sorry of you do not like the term Latino.  It is the term that is used most frequently by Hispanics in my state.  And the headline today in my state’s largest newspaper is ” Latinos Key to Obama’s Victory”.

Posted by anna lisa on Wednesday, Nov 7, 2012 7:13 PM (EST):Our Planned Parenthood is located in the barrio.
Where is yours located?”
**********************************
We actually don’t have one locally, praise God, but everywhere else in my state they’re located in the African American neighborhoods.

Fr Joel,
Stalin had children, too.
Having kids doesn’t give you a pass or cancel out human rights violations.

Fr Joel, Don’t you think some of the tyrants in History had some good qualities? —Other than that decapitating of kids in the ninth month he’s actually a sweetheart of a guy!  Are you serious?  You say a good society “balances virtue and vice”, please explain how vice “balances” virtue.

We all agree that protection of children is important and a moral responsibility– so let us use an example to illustrate.
The President allows Abortion to happen making him an abuser and Bishop Fin allows child abuse in his diocese therefore both the President and Bishop are morally responsible for these actions. According to the Logic that you and Pat are employing both share the same culpability and are both morally bankrupt individuals. Some are going to retort that I am comparing apples and oranges but isn’t it all fruit so if one action is wrong in the system by virtue of similar actions that kill the soul it is also wrong too.
For your question about Virtue and vice let me use an illustration again - The virtue of Temperance is the control of an action in proportionality so if I like to drink to much I have a lack of the virtue (vice) if I can control my drinking of spirits I have (the virtue) if I never drink or participate in recreation then I have an excess of the virtue – the goal is to balance the impulses so that I may live a virtuous life -this comes under the heading of Moral Theology and is typically taught at the graduate level
I like my parishioners to think critically about issues and not react just with emotion. (and in case you are wondering we have bible study and reading discussions for adult members along with the regular RE for the kids – I leave the Marian stuff to the other priest)

Fr. Joel,
Simply allowing abortion to “happen” would make all of us complicit “abusers” for the past 40 years since Roe vs Wade.
Supporting Planned Parenthood,campaigning with them, voting against the “Born Alive” legislation & every single other prolife bill is quite another story.
Apparrently, we do not all think protecting all children is a virtue & by supporting the opposite, can get elected to the highest office in the nation.

“I leave the Marian stuff to the other priest”...Fr. Joel, I would start there.  Befriend Mary, and she will guide you to the humanity of the child in the womb.  Abortion will cease to be just another vice.  It will tear at your heart.  You will be able
.
Yes, allowing children to have their heads ripped off or be induced prematurely, versus allowing children to be photographed by a pervert are NOT in the same class.  You know this father.  Bishop Finn screwed up on the reporting time frame, by a week?  Ten days?  -and apologized.  Obama continues, boldly, without shame and abuses the power of his office by deliberately withdrawing protection from injured children.  He ignored the testimony of those who had been ordered not to care for them.  The vast majority of the population do not agree with him on this moral stance.  It IS incredibly telling about his personality.  HE IS THAT COMMITTED TO GENOCIDE.
But abortion is not a popularity contest, is it Father?  As a moral theologian you should know this.

*You will be able to discern the importance of protecting and advocating for ALL human beings.

Wife,

Bishop Finn screwed up on the reporting timeframe” by several months.  He knew in Dec 2010 that Ratigan had child pornography on Ratigan’s computer.  Finn did not go to the police until April or May 2011.  In addition, he deliberately ignored the USCCB’s Dallas Cahrter and he deliberately sidestepped his own diocese process for dealing with cases of suspected abuse.  He apologized because he caught breaking the law. Fiin and Ratigan are both criminals of the lowest order.

I can’t believe you are comparing children who didn’t know they were being photographed with children who were brutally killed.  So,you think Finn is a criminal of the lowest order and Obama, who allows infanticide, and is unrepentant is not?

Wife,

RatiganIs facing federal charges re the criminal possession of child pornography.  Its a lot more than picture of “children who did know they wer being photographed”.  I am pointing out the facts to you re Finn’s reporting failures and criminal acts.  And you want to defend a priest who who possesses child pornography?  Criminals like Ratigan create a “market” for violence against children, for children being abused in the vilest way by adults.  You just seem to want defend Finn and Ratigan.  I am not talking about President Obama.  I am atalking about Finn and Ratigan.

Oh that’s what it is lol!  I’m defending Ratigan now?  When did you start abusing people? You continue to sidestep Obama’s abortion record.

There’s this picture that I just can’t “unsee”  I will have to live with it for the rest of my days, because it reminds me of my newborn babies.  It’s a photograph of a partial birth abortion of a full term baby.  The hair on her head is wet with blood and amniotic fluid, her eyes are squeezed shut, in a kind of death grimace.  Only you can’t see where her mouth was because the lower jaw has been ripped clean off.
***
Stacks of bodies in concentration camps…
Hutus with Machetes
Pol pot
Mao
Stalin
The United States of America.
We can never stop asking ourselves how humans could be so savage to each other, but somehow in our heart of hearts we know we are capable of the same barbarism.
We make our own excuses.
Live with it Lisa Kaiser.

Wife,

My discussion with you had to do with Finn and Ratigan. That was it.  You are falsely dragging in topics I did not even address.

Thank God Ratigan didn’t run for president and the views of NAMBLA haven’t infected the nation.
.
Lisa, the whole point is you’re excited over the reelection of a man that refuses to recognize the worth of a human being even in the ninth month of pregnancy.  Why are you happy about his reelection? Voting against caring for infants that have survived abortion is a double crime, and up there with all the other “crimes against humanity”.  Live with your happiness that he is president.

So what you are saying is that Lisa and those who supported the President are no better than Hitler or Stalin – wow that is highly insensitive. I think you owe Lisa and the others an apology for saying that no matter how much you may disagree with them. We all have our different ways of serving the one God of peace and love who cares for everyone.

Fr. Joel, for God’s sake.  He supports partial birth abortion.  Don’t ask me to look at this like economic policy.  What are you asking of me?  It’s absolutely insane.  Have you seen the pictures of the German people ecstatic over the one they thought would save the day?  Were those people evil?  Or just duped?  At least in their defense, many didn’t know what was going on in the camps.  In our case?  It’s getting harder and harder not to know.

Fr.Joel,please join me in praying for the president’s conversion.I fear for him and others who support abortion.
I am also saddened when I hear of Catholics voting for candidates who promote objectively evil things especially when packaged as a good.
It always gets back to conversion.

If “Fr. Joel” is a Catholic priest outside of the cyberspace identity, he needs guidance from his superiors & prayer.
If he’s a poser, he needs our prayers, too.

There are Catholic organizations that help the poor and always have from the time of the Apostles. However to use the poor and the “class warfare” thing in order to vote for Democrats is absurd! Life is far more important—but those who are already born voted for Obama in order to get a free phone or some other HANDOUT. Selfish society triumphs over the helpless victims. People abort to avoid responsibility of their actions and the losers are the murdered infants. Sin compounding sin and supported by those calling themselves “catholic”.  Those are our times..

Patt ,
No way would I ever vote for Obama, but I know there are those in the GOP who vote for “handouts”, too.It’s just hidden better than the free cell phones.
It’s the nature of politics to owe stuff or promise things to those who agree to support you.
But abortion on demand is intrinsically evil & Obama even refused to vote against infanticide.So, there was no other choice for me than to vote against him.

I voted for Obama and I do not get any handouts nor do I want any. The “free phones” you and others go on and on about so much aren’t fancy iphones, they are extremely basic cell phones with very limited minutes on them. They are the equivalent of the old “lifeline” programs that the phone companies offered with free phone service for low income people, so that they would have a very limited amount of phone service in case of emergency. Most people nowadays don’t have or use landlines anymore. The fact that you think it all comes down to handouts and free stuff smacks of racism (oh I know you’ll object to that, but what color of person comes to your mind when you picture a recipient of the handouts?) and at the very least elitism. Like you can’t possibly imagine that someone might believe in helping the poor without wanting some of that help for themselves. I live paycheck to paycheck and drive a 9 year old car, I am not rich at all and I have 3 kids to support and student loans to pay off. I would not qualify for anything free even if I tried. And you know what? I would still gladly pay more in taxes if it went to fund welfare programs, and I still regularly donate cash and actual goods to my local food pantry. I didn’t vote for Obama because I wanted handouts, it’s about believing that the Republican party won’t actually end abortion either and I’d rather make sure there’s a safety net. Yes the Catholic charities help and do good work, but people need more than that.

Both Feet Out,

Bravo.  Mitt Romney made it clear that he did not care about 47% of the American people.  If Romney ahd become POTUS, the abortion situation would have remain unchanged, the ricj woudl pay less tases, ahve mor tax breaks, the poor would become poorer.  The Romney/Ryan message was one of callous disregard for the vulnerable and callous disregard for the middle class, a message of disdain for Latinos and women.  The right person for our nation made back to the White House.  Obama won boththe popular vote and the elctoral college vote—because Americans knew that Romney/Ryan would have been a disaster for our nation.  Yes, many on this comment thread will disgree.  However, you cannot deny the reality that Obam will have four more yrs, that Romney will run for office again, John Boehner has conceded that the Affordable Care Act is the law of the land, that the $3000 million Karl Rove raised could not buy this elction (that is how bad the GOP candidates were) that the GOP thoroughly discredited itself in this election.

Agreed KATHLEEN—same here.

Both Feet out—good, keep them out.
Methinks that some guilty consciences here—doth PROTEST TO MUCH IN DEFENSE of their vote for Obama.
If they can’t see the light then—that is between them and God. As I have said I shall not have the sin of voting for a pro-abortion, pro homosexual marriage, candidate (among other evils).

Funny how my liberal friends are fine with higher taxes and giving more to welfare and they pat themselves on the back and feel good thinking of their wonderful generosity. Oh, well.

on and rants Lisa…  Woman, take a chill pill before you have to use Obamacare due to a heart attack.

Patt, what a good Christian you are, telling me to stay out because I don’t agree with you. That’s precisely why I left the church, I thought that I wasn’t welcome to question and think for myself. You pretty much just confirmed that I was right.

However there is no “protesting too much” in defense of my vote for Obama. I actually faced a crisis pregnancy after I thought my family was complete and I kept it. I put my money where my mouth is, so to speak. I don’t feel that I’m patting myself on the back for my ‘wonderful generosity’ either. In fact I quite often castigate myself for not being MORE generous, for going out to a restaurant instead of donating that money to feed people who have no food. I believe that is what Jesus would have done and I fall short.

As for the “sin” of voting for a pro-abortion, pro-homosexual candidate, I just don’t believe it’s a sin. I actually think it’s quite disgusting to assume that God wants me to vote for an anti-homosexual candidate. What others do is between them and God. Every one of us is guilty of some sort of sin, many of us committing some type of sin in the bedroom, even if it’s the sin of selfishness. There is absolutely nothing in the Bible that says that God judges homosexuality as worse than any other sexual sin. I refuse to discriminate against people I love based on a twisted interpretation of the Bible.

Patt,

Its obvious that you have trouble facing the facts.  The GOP did itself in. They ran a lousy race with a lousy candidate who had a lousy message. And Americans realized that.  The better guy is in the White House.

both feet—
for what it is worth here are things you might check in the BIBLE concerning
Homosexuality:From Gen 19:1-14 Lev 18:221 Cor6:9-10 through to 1 Tim 1:10

However, I think you have drawn your own conclusions.
People today (not just Catholics) that do not like what Christ teaches through the Roman Catholic Church He established—- make Christ over into their image and what THEY think He means.  They deprive themselves of His Truths and the Sacraments. Very sad.

Lisa, hahahha. I don’t think anyone could accuse Obama of being the “better guy”. Bowing, party going Puppet—maybe.
You are right that the R-Party had a lousy candidate..  forcing
many to vote against BO.

Patt,

Obam is the better guy.  Evenr Republican Rick Perry called Romney a “vulture capitalist”.  Even the GOP faithful had to “hold its nose” to deal with Romney as the GOP candidate.  One reason Romney lost was that he had to psend so much money in the GOP primary defednding himself against his own party.  The GOP itself was lukewarm at best aout Romney.

Also, Patt, there are 3 exsiting co-equal Abrahamic traditions—Judaism, Christianity and Islam.  Each has a valid, ongoing, unbroken covenant with God—becasue God wills it. God established Judaism, Christainity and Islam.  Each traidtion is equal, none better than or triumphant over the other two.  God has made promises to to Jews, to Christians, to Muslims and God keeps God’s promises.  You may not like it, you may not beleive.  As Senator Patrick Moniyhan used to say:  You are entitled to your opinion but you are not entitled to your facts.

Patt, I have thoroughly researched all of the BIBLE verses related to homosexuality. (I’m not sure why you capitalized BIBLE like that? Was it assuming that I don’t read it?) For the record, I was not saying that homosexuality isn’t a sin, I was saying that voting for a candidate who supports gay rights isn’t a sin.

I Cor 6:9-10, which you linked to, also lists that the greedy won’t enter the kingdom of God. Isn’t that all of us? Find me a single human alive who is not at some time greedy. What about slanderers? They are also mentioned in that same verse. Please honestly tell me you have never slandered anyone. It is unlikely that you can; again, we are human. We fail. Every single one of us sins. And that is why I don’t understand the discrimination against gay people in particular that is so rampant in the Christian community. The Bible (or to use your term, BIBLE) also says far more about caring for the poor than it does about gay people. So many self-professed good Christians believe that dropping a fiver in the collection plate equals “caring for the poor” but that is not really what Jesus meant.

Again, every single one of us sins. Yes, the Bible mentions that homosexuality is a sin. However, nowhere does it say that it is a greater sin than any other sin, many of which we commit despite our best intentions. This would be a good example of the plank in your eye while you’re looking at the mote in another’s. Focus more on your own sin and trying to eradicate it than asking the law to legislate against the sins of others.

Kathleen,

I think you scared “Father” Joel.  I called that one too. lol
Remember folks, this is the internet. But, I am enjoying reading so many posts by obviously humble, servants of our Lord.  You are giving me strength to get through this sad week.

Bottom line guys—I assume you have left the Church so you no longer go to Confession nor receive the Blessed Sacrament. So why are you agitating and flaunting your defiance here? Seems like you have a chip on your shoulders and want to strike out and those Catholics that are still in the Church. I will never agree with your thinking. Your thinking and the your reasons are faulty and full of poor judgement..
No, I shall never defend or uphold a politician who has done as much damage as has been done in the past 4 years.  Country bankrupt, debt higher than ever in its history, and the most abortion supporting President we have ever had, not to mention the favors he has granted homosexuals in approval of their perverted act. Additionally BO has brokenConstitutional Law.
Nor would I ever praise Biden, a Kennedy or Pelosi. as a good catholics!
I appreciate it when those who have let their thinking move into the stage of heretic—remove themselves from the Sacraments.  All such Catholics then prevent the compounding of mortal sins and since they have already broken mentally why not complete the act? Those who will not serve —Begone.
Now go enjoy your—whatever…

I am still here - not scared off nor a fake just busy with Friday Duties

I think Lisa and Both feet out are spot on with there analysis. For your comment Pat about catholic organizations working with the poor to accomplish some good – um well sure they give their CEO’s and offices nice locations but actually helping the people here is how it goes: Here is a form fill it out and one of our workers will get back with you in a week. (doesn’t really work when the person’s electricity is going to be shut off in a day) or what about the mother who can’t afford diapers – “we only give bags to mothers on Tuesday’s and Thursday’s” but they have a hole store of materials but because it is Friday they can’t get the stuff. This happens all the time but you would not know because you don’t work with them – some priests actually stop and hear their church goers and try to make progress on behalf of the souls in their care. Not all the priests go to the wine and cocktail events of the Bishop – we rather spend it over the grill (dogs and chips) with our people who are the Body of Christ.
We must love all people even the Gay people and those in wheelchairs too.

You know, I’ve met priests of every kind over the decades, but I have never met a man who went through all those years in seminary and came out spelling like you do.

Lisa and Feet out, I hope you return to the safety of the sheepfold and the love of the sacraments.  I hope you find good Christian men who are chaste and will love you.  I hope you can experience sacramental marriage in such a way that the idea of artificial contraception and abortion wouldn’t make sense to you, much less appeal.  I appreciate your care for the poor and our homosexual brothers and sisters.
.
Now that O has been reelected let’s work together to convince him that he was wrong about the born alive act.  Let’s start with the late-term children, even though all unborn children have sacred worth and value.  We have to start somewhere to call attention to these grave human rights violations.  Many of these children have Downs.  Let’s give vocal support of those companies that have celebrated Downs children, and keep spreading the message that the outward appearance of perfection is NOT the measure of their value or dignity.  Let’s not forget what “civilized” societies have done to these disabled people in our recent past.
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Let’s not stop talking about *every segment of society* that suffers. It’s time to consider all the voiceless infants that deserve so much more in a civilized society, regardless of whether they are convenient or not convenient.  They are the poorest of the poor.

Fr. Joel, being a social worker is not the priestly vocation.  Priests who get sucked into Liberation Theology start nursing at the tit of hate like every other communist who can’t create heaven on earth…“that ointment could have been sold for the cost of a CEO’s office space!”

Of course “Fr. Joel”  will think those of like mind are “spot on”  No surprise there.
“FATHER JOEL” do you think you are fooling anyone?
One can investigate a Catholic agency to see how they spend the donations. I am aware of “Food for the Poor” with their high incomes—I don’t support them..
And since when is it the local parish’s job to feed and clothe the flock?  I don’t remember Christ keeping the bread line going. He said He had not come to be their “bread King”.
To follow Christ and the Church takes humility—and when someone refuses to obey its teachings they are not in harmony with the Faith no matter how many hot dogs they serve. Instead they give the impression that they are more in harmony with the Pharisees and their false pride of how holy they are— compared to all other poor wretches (who voted against abortion).

I appreciate the hope that I “find a good Christian man who will love me and be chaste” - however I have been married to such a man for almost 19 years and we have three children together. Thanks for the assumption that I DON’T have a Christian man who loves me, though. My husband and I converted to Catholicism at the same time. He still attends Mass on every Sunday, every holy day of obligation and on his birthday, and regularly goes to reconciliation. He prays the rosary every day and is also a catechist. Like me, he voted for Obama, though, because we both believe that the Republican party has completely co-opted the Catholic religion and that Obama will do more for the poor than that faux-pro-life candidate Romney. Although he never says a word about politics OR abortion as a catechist, he does not believe that one must be Republican to be a devout Catholic (nor does our priest, who does know about his views.)

However it’s true that I haven’t been to Mass since April, when my priest was required to read a letter from our bishop stating that we must fight to defeat Obama because of the Affordable Care Act provisions related to contraception. I do not believe that it is appropriate for representatives of the church to get so involved in politics. Honestly I haven’t missed going to church, though, because I experienced so much judgment from other Catholics that I was not able to focus on the alleged beauty in the sacraments. Then I come here and see just as much judgment and honestly, I don’t know if I can go back. Being Catholic seems very focused on blind obedience to rules and judging others, and that’s not how I want to be.

Patt,

Barack Obama inherited the mess from Bush.  As Clinton reminded the nation during the Democratic cConvention:  Bush tokk 8yrs to mess up the nation, the GOP is unahppy that Obama didn’t totally clean it up in 4 yrs, and now the GOP wants back in to recreated the failed polices of the Bush yrs that created the mess in the first place.  Also, Obama has not violated the US Constitution in any way shape or form.

Gay Americans are Americans and via the 14th Amednment of the US Constitution are entitled to equal protection under the law—just like every other American.  That’s how it is because this is the United States of America, not Saudia Arabia or Yemen or Iran.  Also the US is not an RC theocracy, so thankfully nothing the bishops say will determine US policy.  When same-sex is recognized at the federal level the US will still be the US.  The 15 or 2% fo gay people in the American population are not a threat. 

The biggest threat we face in this nation is our failing education system.  I ahd lunch today with a friend of mine who is an egineer for a defense contractor.  His company is permiited to hire only US citizen or people with green cards.  When he calls Stanford, MIT, etc and akss professors for to recommnd engineers who will soon be graduating, the first question the professor is is “Does that engineer have to be a US citizen/”  My friend says yes & then the professor says he has no one to recommend.  Because all the university students who in the top echelon of engineering programs, science programs (chenistry, physics, etc) are studnts from othe nations.  Students coming out of American schools no longer have the math and science skills to be competitive in areas where the US used to excel.  Our failing education systems is our greatest peril.  Work on that.

Just to be clear:  of COURSE it’s the Church’s job to take care of the bodily needs of poor people, as well as the spiritual needs of everybody.  I think most people can recognize that we need private charities AND government aid to properly care for people. 

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Of course you don’t need to be a republican to be a Catholic. And of course you can be a republican and care deeply for the poor. 

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The Church doesn’t generally (at least in this century!) get involved in politics unless it’s absolutely necessary. The Church was quite happy to go about its business tending bodies and souls.  The Bishops became involved with the election when Obama made it clear that one of his major goals is to persecute the Church:  to levy fines until it can no longer afford to care for the poor, and to force it to choose between following the laws of Christ or the laws of the federal government.

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It was the federal government that brought this fight into the walls of the Church. 

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I’m now going to close these comments because I’m tired of having them come into my inbox.  The election is over.  I would think that those of you who voted for a president who hates the Church would be out rejoicing, not bickering in a comment box.