Pat,  sorry, but he’s used up my trust.  Show me action.  Show some backbone.  I’m tired of the Charlie Brown / Lucy trust response.

A charity dinner with photos is not a platform? Is he serious?  Either the Cardinal is not serious or really confused. As you note, what matters about all of this is the imagery. You can’t hide behind Jesus’ example, because he dined with sinners in order to convert them. No serious person could think that Obama will be converted in the heart from going to a charity dinner.

If you insist on being non-partisan disinvite Romney as well. This is no excuse, and shows not only poor judgment on the Dolan’s part, but also an inability to draw the relevant distinctions.

Matt you and others’ hatred of President Obama is bordering on the ridiculous and trully shows that you may be “VERY DEVOUT CATHOLICS” but you sure as hell are not Christians by any stretch of the imagination. This my last word on the subject. I was under the impression that Christ taught us to love our enemy and pray for them.  I see no love on any of these boards and the ONLY reason you people hate Obama so much is because you people cannot stand the fact that an educated black man occupies the White House. I’m also very much pro-life and guess what I adopted an unwanted baby.  How many of you who spew your hatred of abortion have adopted an unwanted child after it was born??  You faux Christians make me sick.

I trust Cardinal Dolan, and fully support him. 
He has earned it.

Perhaps Cardinal Dolan knows someting that we do not… I certainly hope so.

Let us pray that the Cardinal’s gesture is not simply a repeat of Neville Chamberlain’s naive “Peace in our time” after receiving assurances from Hitler.

This is just another example of a “Catholic” bishop causing scandal. For the last 50 years heresy, arrogance, extreme liturgical abuse, choas, scandal afetr scandal, pedophilia (and the list sould go on)has not only been ignored by bishops but in many cases encouraged. The latest example is the LCWR situation. For 40 years these “sisters” have been allowed to through away all vestige of religious life; from the holy habit, the Divine Office, the Mass, the evangelical counsels etc, and have been allowed to promote new age silliness and heresy. So the CDF FINALLY begins to address the serious problem and everyone screams the Church is hateful and mean. What’s mean is allowing sisters to decend to the level they are at, which borders on paganism. How does Holy Mother Church allow her daughters to sink this low? By doing what Cardianl Dolan is doing. He is guided by love of celebrity and the desire to be liked and to take the easy way out. He cares whether or not he gets invited to the White House. He cares if he isn’t invited to the Manhattan cocktail party circuit. He cares whether or not the New York Tomes elite like him. He bends the Gospel and the teachings of Vatican II to support his scandalous behaviour. Vatican Council II did not call for confusion but that the faith might be taught more clearly. The President has shown himself to be an enemy of the Church and has stated he is done compromising. You don’t make friends with a declared enemy, you defeat them. You pray for them. You fast for them, yes. But you do not honor them and cause scandal to the faithful.

Yes, Jesus ate with sinners.  Bad analogy. 

Jesus didn’t sit down with Herod or Pontius Pilate so they could show all His followers what great guys they were.

About the best you can expect from Dolan is to pose for pictures but wear a suit , not clerical garb. But I expect this will not happen either.

I believe that this sends the wrong message to Obama, Sibelius, all the supporters of the HHS mandate AND also those to of us who have, up to this point, been strongly united in our opposition to this mandate.  It makes me wonder why I should stand up firmly against this attack on religious freedom if the leader of our Church in the U.S. isn’t willing to do so.  The only way I can interpret this action by Cardinal Dolan is that he’s given in to political pressure.  The thought of Obama making jokes about this, with that smug look on his face, is more than I can stomach.  I guarantee that I will NOT be watching and it upsets me that my Church is giving him a stage on which to do it.

With all due respect Cardinal Dolan, The man lied to your face and then added insult to the lie with a bogus “accommodation”.  While your position of remaining open to dialogue is admirable, it leaves you vulnerable to being manipulated.  As mentioned above communication and/or dialogue is a two way street that requires openess and honesty on both sides.  Unfortunately, those on the left are casually disingenuous and are relentless in seeking advantage.  Their motives are readily apparent to anyone who pays attention.  In the face of this, your position of openess to dialogue and unwillingness to judge (or at the very least allow for) motives is naivete that approaches culpability.

Does anybody honestly believe Cardinal Dolan got to be where he is just because he’s a very holy man, and apparently solid episcopal minister? For sure, he fits the bill in those two key “job description” necessities. More importantly . . . and this is something many fellow Catholic Americans fail to keep in mind: he’s a politician. He has to be a politician to some degree; especially in his role as the Primate of New York of all places. It takes a special man with special skills to even be considered for calling to that position.
Rather than castigating the man, whom one day, conservative Catholics are praising to heights exceeding the new WTC Freedom Tower, only now to watch his judgment lowered in their eyes to the depth of the new additional tracks planned for close-by Grand Central Station, (a major concern of both his predecessor Cardinal Egan and Dolan for what the vibrations caused by the construction, etc could mean to St. Patrick’s Cathedral . . . what’s wrong with giving this relatively new Cardinal the benefit of the doubt in this matter? When did conservatives start thinking it’s just as acceptable for them to cherry pick their (expected) support for their shepherds over inconvenient political realities?
Remember, this is the Cardinal’s show; it’s going to be on his selected turf, and he gets to call the rules of the game for both contestants (plus their usually more vocally quarrelsome campaign staffers.) What a better opportunity for Cardinal Dolan to pull the President aside for a private talk. After all, Romney has no standing, no “interest” as lawyers would put it, in this matter; however loudly he and his spin-meisters will whine, wail and stomp their guccis. It’s the present administration’s rule changes and the Vatican’s complaint and Romney has no role whatsoever. He’ll be nothing but the proverbial “third man in” to join a hockey fight.
I’m sure Obama wants this off his desk as much as the Cardinal does and both men want to come up with a solution that accommodates both sides in a way that leaves neither side feeling cheated when it comes to respecting Church teachings and a dimunition of the government’s capacity to serve the public. Or have some of you forgotten: we live in a representative form of democracy?
Long has the Vatican seen the wisdom of learning how to use quiet diplomacy to achieve what elected secular blowhards and their fawners in the 4th estate couldn’t accomplish in a lifetime of weekend Masses.

This is the comment that I wrote at the blog of His eminence, but will probably not be published due to the fact that it’s “mean”

Your Eminence: Thank you sincerely for this explanation of your actions….That said, I still disagree with the action at hand, and here’s why:

1. Obama has proven time and time again to be an enemy of the Church…

We’ve tried to converse with him, dialogue so to speak. He has done nothing but insult our intelligence (paraphasing your words) and lie to us about trying to seek common ground. He has no intention on seeking common ground with us at all. I don’t really think he has any respect for the Church at all, or what respect he does have is for a warped image of the Church. And while Jesus did eat with sinners, he certainly corrected them, and he certainly was not a pasifist, even questioning why the guards were doing things to him during the via Crucis. The heart of Obama is hardened towards matters of the Church, and the process of engagement has failed. I think it’s time to try a new approach.

2. Good intentions have bad consequences…

While I certainly admire the fact you want to be civil with the president, this is a good thing and certainly should be practiced by all of us when engaging the culture,  the perception will be that this talk about Religious Freedom, HHS Mandate, etc, was just a political facade and really it was just cover while in reality, you support the president and his goals towards the Church. I know that this is not the intent of the invite of Obama, but this is how we the faithful will see it. The Gospel of Good Intentions has been tried and really hasn’t worked too well so far.

3. There are major differences between the Holy Father meeting the President, and this dinner.

The Holy Father as head of Vatican-City state, meets with the heads of state often. The Holy Father also gave a fraternal correction to Obama, giving him Caritas et veritate, and a copy of Humane Vitae as well. That is to say the Holy Father wasn’t civil, he taught the Truth of the Faith, while Obama hasn’t listened to Him, He presented the Truth in charity and clarity. He also met with Nancy Pelosi and didn’t give her an opportunity for a photo. He did not make it appear as if he was supporting her position. Whether you like it or not, the reality wil be that you are by default supporting Obama by him being there.

7/2. Seeing as if the dinner isn’t a reward…I agree…

I agree with you that the dinner is not a reward and shouldn’t be seen in that light (it wil be anyway). An invitation was not extended to Bill Clinton because of his moral stance on abortion.  By an earlier Cardinal Archbishop of New York. Seeing as the dinner has declined invitations to people before, perhaps now is a good time to try again.

I will of course pray for you, Your Eminence as well as for our Bishops in this fight. I know this was not an easy decision to make, and while I do disagree with it, and understand your reasoning…It just seems to be a repetitive cycle of things that we have tried and have failed. There comes a time where all of us (I include myself) need to stand up for what is right, regardless of whether it hurts peoples feelings or doesn’t seem “nice.”  The Gospel of nice and good intentions has been tried before, the definition of insanity is trying the same thing over again, and expecting different results.

Our Lady Queen of martyrs: Pray for us.

Another solution might be to put the dinner off until after the election. What ever the outcome, it would not affect the vote. The organization could still it’s donations and the Church would not be manipulated beyond what this administration is doing already
.

Cardinal I trust you as a Bishop and I love you but with all due respect you stink as a political strategist and you admit as much when it came to New York gay marriage vote. I’m not so sure this is going to turn out any different but I will have your back til the end.  Hopefully your scarred but smarter this time around.

The pictures of President Obama with Cardinal Dolan will be worth a million votes, which neither explanations, pleas or trusting will even touch.  It’s a wonderful gift to the Obama campaign.  The only to prevent being so used would be for Cardinal Dolan to appear only on a TV screen with a statement, instead of in person as a political pawn.

It would be much more palatable and would fit the Cardinal’s agenda if he would not allow photos to be taken at the dinner. Obama will use photos as propaganda and I wouldn’t be surprised if all the big media covered the event to benefit the president.

It’s a dinner, not a marriage proposal. I doubt the good Cardinal is going to forget himself and the work he has done over the shrimp cocktail.

Wow!! One might think this was Mr Obama’s first trip to the Al Smith Dinner.  One would be wrong as he was a speaker at the 2008 Dinner along with Senator McCain.  So what is different now?  That he actually got the health care law passed?  Catholics- I am one- tend to be very negative and see only the downside of things.  They do not see the MILLIONS of people who will benefit from the ACA, they only see the ended lives of the unborn.  Using this logic, no program could ever be instituted and approved of the Catholic Church.  Kids cannot Catholic School, I guess we better shut down the schools.  Some people can’t use food stamps, well I guess we better discontinue them.  Some people are allergic to wheat, we better burn the fields. Innoncent Civilians die in war, we better not have a war.  It is completely ignorant and the worst form of ignorance to not see the good that comes from the social programs touted by Mr Obama. More good than evil.  I am willing to bet Cardinal Dolan understands this.

At least you had the decency this time not to hide behind nonsense like “Cardinal Baffling of Gotham City.”

Will Cardinal Dolan remove his cross at the Al Smith dinner?

When President Obama visited Georgetown and was honored by the Jesuits, the president demanded that all symbols of Christ be removed or covered up. Naturally the Jesuits happily complied. That’s because they engage people even if it means denying the faith. So when Obama demands that Cardinal Dolan not wear his cross at the dinner I am willing to bet that the Cardinal will not hesitate to remove it. After all that’s what one does in polite society isn’t it? And the Cardinal would never want to offend a liberal.

Cardinal Dolan, so you think that no one will misconstrue your invitation to Obama as a softening of your positions on religious liberty and life issues?  You better read Starzec’s post at Aug 15, 2:42 pm.  Starzec seems to think that you have come to realize that Obama’s policies are: “More good than evil. I am willing to bet Cardinal Dolan understands this.”  I didn’t put Starzec up to this, I swear.

Obama lies. Obama cannot be trusted. Obama is an enemy of the church. AMEN. Cardinal you have been suckered in to help the Obama election campaign.

Patrick is zeroing in on the key point:  the perception is (and has been for how many decades now?)that too many teachers in the Church are just not serious—not about Church teaching on contraception, abortion, homosexual behavior, the ordination of women to the priesthood and the diaconate, and many other modern disputed issues. And now apparently too many of them are unserious about the threat to religious liberty and individual conscience. “JUST WORDS?” (Call to mind the 2008 Obama campaign speech.) Yes, Mr. Obama. Sadly, when it comes to Church teaching, for too many bishops they *are* JUST WORDS. Brace yourselves for the great persecution, fellow Catholics. Obama smells weakness, and there’s no one up to the job of leading the army against him. Lee apparently has decided to take a break and dine with Grant, or vice versa.

Mr. Sullivan,
How exactly was I hiding in my baffling post?  I signed my name to it and most people, even you, seemed to know what I intended with my satire.  So how is that hiding again?

There are some pretty disrespectful comments here concerning Cardinal Dolan.

Excellent post, Pat—excellent! I, like most Catholics who are upset, have given this subject a great deal of thought. I’m a senior citizen, but I still clearly remember my father telling me when I was growing up, “You’re known by the company you keep.” Engaging President Obama in a civil conversation/discussion can be justified; inviting him to a social evening puts the interaction between him and the Cardinal on a whole new level. Mr. Obama’s political views are in direct contrast to all that the Catholic Church holds dear and teaches. When a Senator, Mr. Obama voted to deny medical care to babies who were born alive in botched abortions. He publically has stated his support of a woman’s right to an abortion. He believes in murdering innocent unborn children.—The only issue of true concern here is that of Mr. Obama’s eternal soul. The Cardinal should indeed invite him—privately—to discuss these matters and point out the grave mortal danger he’s in, for these political views have him wading in mortal sin. There is noting light-hearted about this. Additionally, it appears Cardinal Dolan is causing division in our Church and this is extremely sad.  The faithful feel duped and abandoned. This is just another sad moment for the American Catholic Church.

Dear God, please send us a Saint Athanasius.

If he gets no speech and no reward, Bishop Dolan is simply at table with a well known enemy(we all are sinners). If Obama is able to give a speech or gets some reward, that is crossing the line.

We cannot use human wisdom and ‘common sense’ to judge Cardinal Dolan’s choice in this matter.  If he has prayerfully discerned this matter and feels that Good has led him to make this invitation than that is what he must do.  Scripture tells us that we are not to rely upon our own understanding, and God often asks us to do things that seem foolish to the natural mind…we are all to act according to God’s will, no matter how ridiculous it seems to our own, or others’, limited human intellect.  The outcome is also predicated on the free will of others involved, but we must always act in faith according to the will of God, trusting the outcome to him. I pray Cardinal Dolan will always prayerfully discern and act on the will of God.  And I encourage all to pray, as do I, for the conversion of those in government who, for whatever reason, are promoting evil.

Dolan’s latent response to this mess only points to a woefully unsavvy and incompetent PR Communications Office of the USCCB.  Even more galling is Dolan’s defense that Jesus ate with sinners and Tax Collectors.  That’s true, but those same sinners and Tax Collectors were interested in hearing what this new Rabbi from Nazareth had to say.  With Obama, he has already heard and is no longer interested in hearing anything.  His understanding of Catholicism comes from Pelosi and Axelrod.

@Cynthia:  Even Jesus confronted Peter’s idea as Satanic and told him “to get behind Him.”  No doubt you would have preferred Jesus to strike up a chorus of “Kumbaya” when standing before Caiaphas.  Please, we are in a battle of spiritual warfare.

Cardinal Dolan is an upright and valiant defender of the faith in our day and age. I support him 100%. I think we should comply with his humble request and pray for him, our bishops, and, moreover, all our elected leaders daily.

The Al Smith invitation is unlike Father Jenkins misguided decision to give President Obama an honorary degree at Notre Dame.  Not only will the current President be on the podium, so will the next President of the United States, Mitt Romney.  It may serve us well to have the contrast.  I trust the Cardinal.  He has both earned it by his actions, and I believe he is entitled to it from the faithful laity.

None of which is to say that any faithful Catholic can vote for Obama; they can’t.

Good opportunity to toast Obama - with a subsequently-spilled glass of Holy Water. If Obama shrieks, “it burns!!!!”, then we’ve learned something useful :-).

  I am tired of people saying “I trust the Cardinal” or “He Knows what he is doing” This is clericalism at its worse and it has got to stop because the stakes are too high. Myself agree with Michael Voris who mentioned the crazy tirade of the head the Catholic League calling concerned Catholics things like the “Piety Police” or “Holier than the Pope” or Taliban Catholics etc. Here is the plain truth about this prelate nobody wants to point out: Timothy Dolan messed up big time when it came to clerical abuse.And just 2 years ago he gives a big thumbs up to a GLBT group at St. Francis Xavier Church (which CNN covered) and finally he basically sat back and hardly anything to stop “same sex Marriages” to take effect in New York a year ago. I have to put my trust in him again over this too? NO.

To repeat what I’ve posted elsewhere:
 
Jesus bravely and shockingly extended table fellowship to social pariahs. Obama is not a social pariah, and sharing table fellowship with him is widely regarded as an honor, not a brave act, however shocking it may be to embattled pro-lifers.
 
Precedent is important here. Why did Cardinal O’Connor refuse to invite President Clinton to the Al Smith dinner in 1996? Why did Cardinal Egan refuse to invite John Kerry in 2004? Were these snubs failures by these prelates to reflect the charity of Christ? Or did they recognize that there is a time for putting politics aside and a time for heroic witness to truth?
 
The Al Smith dinner is a fundraiser for Catholic Charities NY. President Obama and the HHS have done more to shut down Catholic charities than any other administration in history. How can the president who has done more to shut down Catholic charities than any president in history be the honored guest and speaker at a fundraiser for those very same charities?
 
Cardinal Dolan is reputed to be a savvy political player. How will this play in the media and the war on the Church? Catholics For Obama – Biden are trumpeting the invitation and the “meltdown of rage” on the “Catholic right” (i.e., Catholic pro-lifers) as ” further evidence that too much of the Catholic Right is based on hate and extremism,” even claiming that “The Archdiocese of New York has ignored and belittled the critics.”
 
Cardinal Dolan once accused Obama of misleading him on the HHS mandate. He has pugnaciously spoken of the Obama administration’s war on the Church. Was that empty rhetoric? Is this wartime behavior? Or does it convey that there is no crisis really, that beyond the rhetoric and hoopla the Catholic Church’s longstanding partnership with the Democratic party (Al Smith was of course a Democrat, and the first Catholic to run for president) continues without issue?
 
The Democratic party has placed the greatest moral evil of our day, abortion, at the absolute center of its official platform, its agenda, its ideological commitments. Thanks to the “leadership” of this president, it has now added to that platform a commitment to same-sex marriage — a tool that will be used to destroy the institutions of the Catholic Church in America, thereby crippling the Church’s ability to use its weight to defend life.
 
There’s a time for putting politics aside and cooperating for the sake of a common goal, and there is a time for heroic witness, for taking a stand, for suspending protocols and niceties to highlight the urgency of a crisis and call upon people to act. I’d like to think Cardinal Dolan — who was one of the voices speaking out against Notre Dame honoring Obama as its commencement speaker and bestowing him with an honorary degree — knows the times in which we live. I’d like to think so — but if the Al Smith dinner proceeds according to expectations, with Obama and Dolan making nice and joking for charities that Obama hasn’t yet gotten around to shutting down, I don’t see how I can. Perhaps the Cardinal has an ace up his sleeve. I dearly hope so.

“Cardinal Dolan, we trust you. But do not ever trust President Obama.”  This is the operative message.

Such a sad display of petulance and political immaturity on the part of those who’d rather stick their heads in the sand rather than have anything to do with President Obama.

Cardinal Dolan has spoken out courageously on the HHS Mandate.  He has not backed down.  While on it’s face, this invitation seems like a huge step backwards for him, I suspect that the good Cardinal has something up his sleeve.

Sorry, I trust neither Dolan nor Obama nor the Church anymore. They asked us to defend the Church. And we were happy to do so. I publicly defended the bishops against a whole host of enemies. I told the secularists the actions of the Obama administration were an extreme threat to religious liberty and they should pay attention. I told ill-informed Catholics this is no longer politics-as-usual and they needed to be concerned. I told die-hard traditionalists our bishops are not mealy-mouthed wimps but true defenders of the faith.

And now I feel like the fool. Now the secularists come to me and say, “See! Nothing extreme is going on! Even your own bishops know that!” Now the ill-informed Catholics say, “It’s obviously not that bad.” And now the traditionalists say, “Told you so! They were never gonna pull through!” And I have nothing to say. Because it indeed looks like politics-as-usual.

I should have listened long ago to those friends who said the Catholic Church was nothing but a cover for hypocritical priests and prelates who use the money their stupid, blind sheep give them to fund their worldly lifestyles (and that’s exactly what nearly all of my friends have been saying). Well, fool me once. 

Right. It’s all an elaborate trap.

Perhaps he’ll just offer Obama $20K or $30K to disappear like he did with the pedophile priests in Milwaukee.

@CaritasChristi [“Cardinal Dolan is an upright and valiant defender of the faith in our day and age. I support him 100%. I think we should comply with his humble request and pray for him, our bishops, and, moreover, all our elected leaders daily.

It’s still a little early for you to vote for OBama-Axelrod by Absentee Ballot.  We are not required to pray *for*  this type of evil except that we be delivered from it.  Valiant defenders of the faith stand for righteousness.  They do not schmooze with Obama hoping to temper the rhetoric down in order to get more funding for Catholic Charities.

@Kathy:  [“I suspect that the good Cardinal has something up his sleeve.”]  No, it’s BO that has something up his sleeve by accepting.  It’s to get Catholics like you duped into thinking something will all get worked out and thus to make you feel comfortable about voting Obama-Biden.  After all, Biden is a Catholic.  Let me hear more of that Catholic love like “Ya’ll be put back in chains.”

Lindsay, I’m with you. I was assuring those I know, and many I don’t, that Cardinal Dolan most assuredly would not allow an invitation to an avowed enemy of the Church. I had such high hopes for Cardinal Dolan. I doubt not his good intentions and his tenacity; but he has shown himself hopelessly naive about Mr Obama. Trust the Cardinal? I’m not going to set myself up again.
To those who believe and/or hope that Cardinal Dolan has some plan to turn this to good advantage for the Church and its struggle against the administration, that His Eminence has laid a trap into which Mr Obama has fallen: Because Mr Obama has already been exploiting the invitation as a personal honor to him and a sign that the Church can accommodate to the administration’s policies, springing the trap would have to involve something spectacular to overcome that initial impression, which then would be played as bad faith by the Cardinal. As it would be.

“@Sir Louis.  Exactly.  And the master-mind behind this is Axelrod,—Obama’s “insider” into how Catholicism and the USCCB work.  This is typical Chicago politics.  If it’s not Oprah who bank rolled this guy (with no paper trail) it’s Axelrod.

Wow, aren’t we eager to throw him under the bus.
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Starzec, you don’t seem to understand: abortion isn’t prudential, is is NOT negotiable.  EVER.  It’s not just collateral damage.
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Lindsay, listen to what you are saying!  You are seriously considering abandoning Jesus Christ HImself present in the eucharist…in the heat of the moment…because you don’t like the actions of one man…who is arguably no better or worse than our first pope.  I urge you to stop and let a cooler head prevail.

Is a Cardinal concerned about the conversion of a sinner or effecting government policy?  Is the Church called to announce the Gospel to nation-states or to individuals? Just sayin’.

Just a simple question,,,,,, Here we go again,,,,,Who, Died and left you in charge to tell the Cardinal what to do and not do???? It’s time to ask poitical shills picking and choosing the Principles of our church to stop hi-jacking our church for their gain.

I’m sensing the makings of a new schism.  May I suggest a name for this new splinter group?  Alright, then, I will: “The Catholic Church of the American Republican Party.”  It appears several of the commenters already want to join.  Mr. Archbold will certainly be a prominent figure in this new Church. 
As for me, while I have never been accused of being “a Traditionalist,” I know that my main task is to try to get the beam out of my own eye. The Spirit works through me much better when I focus on that than when I accuse the Apostles’ successors of being inept, naive, sacrificing moral standards for money.  Oh, don’t get me wrong, Bishops can be all those things; and Obama certainly is no friend of the RCC.  I just don’t find it helpful to yell and scream about it.  I also recommend people go read about St. Frances de Sales and how he dealt with enemies of the Church in his day.

Sorry enness but it’s the Cardinal who threw *us* under the bus. Those of us who continue to hold a consistently firm line against Obama are now fair game for public ridicule and shame - we are now “haters.” Just read Jane’s comment. Catholics who will never vote for abortion-promoting politicians like Obama, or honor them with fancy dinners at the Waldorf, are “political shills choosing picking and choosing the Principles of our church” to “hijack it for our gain.” And now we have the public actions of the head of the USCCB to prove them right. Or, as Bill Donohue so eloquently said when he mocked concerned Catholics on national television, we are nothing more than the “piety police,” a fringe element who matter not. And all of this because we thought we were defending the Church at the bishops’ request.
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Well, I was willing to be mocked by secularists for standing up for unborn babies and struggling Catholic business owners who may have to shut their doors because of this mandate. I was willing to deal with miscreant priests (trust me, I’ve seen or heard enough eyewitness accounts of priestly misconduct to last a lifetime). But I’m finding it a bit hard to stand up to the jeers of the leaders of my own Church on top of it all. Frankly, I don’t have that strong of a faith. I wish I did but that kernel of self-respect within me is crying out not to take this lying down. And contrary to what Jane said, I have no intention of telling Dolan what to do. I’m merely telling everyone what *I’m* going to do – and that’s get the hell out of this hypocritical, rotten Church.
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The Obama administration receives a respectful bow from me. Machiavellian divide and conquer at it’s very best. At least someone knows how to play the game right.

Neither Mr Obama nor Mr Romney will make a speech or tell lies or spin their message. This is an event held every four years, involving the two candidates for POTUS, to raise funds for Charitable causes in the archdiocese of New York. Smith was denied the presidency for outright protestant nativist bigotry. The cardinal needs no advice about not trusting Obama. He personally experienced his lies and saw his deception from Notre Dame as well. Get on your knees brothers and sisters and lay off the cardinal’s podium and pulpit.

Get over your hatred and one-dimensional view of politics and the world, it’s only a fundraising dinner. The war-criminal and torture advocate Cheney was also a guest speaker in 1991. If there’s ever to be an accommodation to the HHS mandate, dialogue is the key, not Republican-style demonization of anyone who disagrees with Church teachings. Want a Mormon for President, who “changed” his position on abortion purely for political advantage? Does it occur to anyone that the last 8 years of Republican rule hasn’t brought any change to abortion laws? Or that on day 1 of a Republican Presidency, the ACA (supported and endorsed by the Church) will be repealed, setting the country back to square one on health care reform?

Leaving Christ in the Eucharist over a Cardinal’s decision is ridiculous and blind. Continue to pray and discern your own actions while adhereing to the truth of the Gospel. Someday your own martyrdom may be called for but only if you remain faithful to the Church which is far bigger than one or two dinners with questionable people. Give some respect for the dead faithful in concentration camps who never left their faith by never leaving yours.

I am tired of all the blogs (and I am especially disappointed in the Register)for giving a platform for the faithful to spew comments of distrust and poor opinion about this Prince of the Church’s dicisions/actions. Do we no longer trust in the Holy Spirit, the Holy Father who appointed this man? I am no longer reading any more on the subject. God is in control of this situation. He will bring what is supposed to be brought..all for His glory…and Cardinal Dolan deserves our prayers, not commentary or criticism, regardless of what we feel about the dinner guest list. Where is the humility? Are we all more Catholic than our cardinal? The arrogance is astonding to me. I am thinking the enemy is quite happy to be dividing once again the faithful, and what an example to the world/culture at large to see , once again, Catholics bad-mouthing their shepherds.. Very disappointing that any of the faithful Catholic reporters/commentators/bloggers are fueling this gossip. Instead of writing/talking…we all should be praying for him.

I think the Cardinal is channeling the Godfather: “Keep your friends close, but your enemies closer.”

Posted by Liz on Thursday, Aug 16, 2012 7:25 AM (EST):I am tired of all the blogs… “
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I’m not tired of the blogs, just the comments. Or at least many of them.Wouldn’t it be refreshing to see charitable, uplifting & positive comments on a Catholic site instead of continual sniping?
God bless Cardinal Dolan.

God bless Cardinal Dolan, indeed, Liz.  He is a brave man and a true Catholic.  We need to trust his integrity.  This invitation could go two ways.  It could be seen as supporting a hugely evil person, or it could heap coals upon his head.  Let us wait and see.  Let us also pray, pray very hard for Cardinal Dolan and for our sad, wounded country.  God bless Cardinal Dolan, God bless those who seek to abide in His Word, God bless America.

It is time for SOLIDARITY among Catholics. 
-The decision to honor Obama at this Dinner unfortunately shifts the burden of responsibility to the Catholic attendees…we now look to all the invited guests to show SOLIDARITY in the fight for religious freedom by refusing to attend this dinner. If you wish, donations can be sent in AFTER the election.
-The charities themselves should show SOLIDARITY for religious freedom and speak out against the Obama invitation.

With Cardinals like this as “leaders” we need not wonder why the pews are empty.

I have not read all the comments but what I see in the negative ones is that the president wins and Catholics lose. I wonder how many of these commentators will vote for Governor Romney. Both the president and his opponent will be at the dinner, or neither of them would be at the dinner. That was the case both times before when a president was not invited to this event during an election year. So my hope is that the function will bring more Catholics to Romney than to our current president.  I would recommend that these “Catho-republican” commenters develop a broader vision. I am a Catholic liberal, but I am not a liberal Catholic. I will need all the encouragement I can get to vote for Governor Romney instead of casting a ballot for some no chance third party candidate just as a protest vote. That is what I have done for the last several elections because frankly I haven’t been able to stand any presidential candidate for more then 25 years.

Pat,

This is your best post.  I agree totally with you.  Your statement “
Our real concern is that the President will use this opportunity to convince as many people as possible that the Church isn’t really serious in its opposition. One can easily imagine a picture of you and the President smiling arm in arm” rings so true.  Obama is a liar and can’t be trusted.  He is the most anti-Christ president that we have ever seen!

I applaud His Eminence for the decision to keep the invitation to President Obama for the Al Smith Dinner!  H.E. Cardinal Dolan has my full prayerful support in this decision.  He is correct that dialogue must remain open on both sides regarding the HHS Mandate.

I believe that perhaps Cardinal Dolan may be getting pressure from other sources, perhaps Bishops that don’t entirely agree with him.  I am more that disappointed.  I agree that Obama will use this to lure Catholics into believing somehow that now the Church agrees with him.  After all, if a Cardinal of New York showed up, it must be okay, right?  I’d remind the Cardinal that history repeats itself.  During the first part of Hitler’s ascent in the government I believe the Church was also “dialoging” with him and his party, and all the Nazis did was go ahead with their plans.  Chamberlain also dialogued with Hitler, and Hitler lied to him too.  Granted, that Obama is not another Hitler, but Cardinal Dolan, you cannot dialogue with a liar and win.

Pat is right on the money here!  I think that nobody is against Cardinal Dolan talking with Obama and if he wants to go have a White House beer although not looking very Godly would at LEAST not give a podium to the most BABY KILLING President in our Nation’s History.  I really do not think that Cardinal Dolan lives in the world that most of us do when we hear attack after attack on the church from the Obama Administration.  Attack on Pro-Life, Attack on God’s design for marraige, Attack on our Religious Freedom.  I can’t believe he is so trusting as to not look into Obama’s history and into why he made the statement “WE WILL FUNDAMENTALLY CHANGE AMERICA!”.  Could it be that Cardinal Dolan likes the liberal left and enjoys the spotlight and noteriety?  One has to wonder.

I just cannot see the General in Mexico during the wars in 1920’s against the church putting on a GALA dinner and inviting the President of Mexico to come and enjoy the evening, lay down our differences and then go ahead and be one of the main speakers!!!

I am GREATLY disappointed with Cardinal Dolan as he seems to have more of a regard for Mr. Obama than he does for those in his church who give up their lives to pray and fast and fight against the PRO-CHOICE and PRO-GAY MARRIAGE agenda.  This is a total slap in the face.

Good grief—what a pompous and paternalistic little “warning” lecture for His Eminence.  We can be grateful Cardinal Dolan doesn’t address the faithful this way…

  I just had a GREAT IDEA!!! If Cardinal Dolan wants to show Mr. Obama about the REAL CATHOLIC FAITH…..I have a GREAT IDEA! Cardinal Dolan and Mr. Obama can be the ones SERVING the guests at this GALA Dinner!!! That’s RIGHT! Show Mr. Obama the lesson of Jesus to be the GREATEST in the Kingdom of Heaven you must be THE SERVANT OF ALL!!! Just break the news to Mr. Obama that he is still invited but that the Catholic Church is going to give him an opportunity to get to be REALLY GREAT like the Catholics do it! NO Speeches, No Dinning on sumptuous food or drinking gin toddies…..just GET THE APRON ON and hey! If you want to be REALLY FAIR…invite Mr. ROMNEY to ALSO do this!!!

Then you invite NOT THE RICH….but you be sure to make a certain number of seats available for the POOR on the Streets of NY! Be sure to invite those that you find on the streets that are there who were once home owners and productive citizens but due to the mishandling of the country’s wealth have lost their jobs and their homes!
I think it’s BRILLIANT….I think it will WORK…….AND….THE PRESS WILL BE ALL OVER IT!!!

For someone who supports even Partial-Birth Abortion there is no need for further dialog.  Obama has long made up his mind.  He even said if one of his daughters became pregnant he didn’t want her to be penalized because of her “mistake.”  He views unwanted pregnancies as “mistakes” to be aborted.  Where did you get the idea it’s unChrist-like to “shake the dust from your feet and move on?  If Jesus can “move on” why can’t Dolan and the USCCB?  Seems they have spent far too much time tweaking the liturgy and not bothered reading the gospel.  Those of you who are hell bent on prayer and continual dialog are playing right into the Axelrod manipulation of insider Catholicism.

@Gina:  [“Good grief—what a pompous and paternalistic little “warning” lecture for His Eminence.”]    There’s a problem for you right there.  Time for Catholics to grow up and stop these prideful titles of “His Eminence” and kissing the rings of our Bishops.  Just because they wear robes and red beanies does not mean they are not ordinatry human beings.  Jesus was critical of the church leaders at His time as well.  The gospel indicates the Holy Spirit is of equal opportunity.  The idea that clergy have an advantage over the laity for Spiritual understanding is false teaching.  That’s why we had so many mush-head Catholics defending Cardinal Law of Boston.

Elizabeth, that is brilliant!

@Gina[“We can be grateful Cardinal Dolan doesn’t address the faithful this way.”]
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No, he just has his henchman call us the ‘piety police’ on cable news, a bigger platform than this will ever be.
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And I have no idea why this has turned into a Democrat-Republican issue. I’m no fan of the Republican Party or Romney, but the threat to religious liberty, the sanctity of marriage and unborn babies has been extreme and therefore if there ever was a time to prove that this is no longer politics-as-usual, a cancellation of the whole dinner might have been in order.
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And I’m sorry, but it’s a little insulting he would tell us that a lavish dinner at one of the finest hotels in the world with the most powerful man in the world is somehow like Jesus dining with sinners. I’ve been trying to pull myself out of sin for years now, and no parish priest has ever accepted an invitation to dine, let alone offered one. Except for the priest that baptized me, I haven’t met a single one who seems to care a bit for the state of my soul. It’s very clear where their priorities are, and it’s not with the poor sinners of the world.
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And then they call us names when we’re upset, and then they say it’s ‘ridiculous’ we’d think of leaving. Well, I just said what millions have done. Perhaps I should have done it silently like they did.

@Elizabeth, I don’t think Obama learned about washing anyone’s feet from Jeremiah Wright nor from guest speaker Fr. Michael Pfleger of St. Sabina’s Parish in Chicago.

@Lindsay:  [“Except for the priest that baptized me, I haven’t met a single one who seems to care a bit for the state of my soul.”]  Stay with it, Lindsay.  Do not feel disheartened.  Many priests are so concentrated on the Eucharist that they have failed to make purposeful application of it into the every day lives of people in the pew.  The church is suppose to be a hospital for sinners and not a field office for the diocese.

Good article Pat. This whole thing is a blunder. I hope Card. Dolan changes his mind.

I respectfully and sadly disagree with Cardinal Dolan.  No matter how he slices and dices it and sweetens it, this invitation IS a public platform for Obama, and it implies that things can’t really be all that bad if bishops yuk it up at dinner with the most pro-abortion, pro-gay marriage, and hostile-to-the-Church president ever.  This invitation and the subsequent photo ops with smiling bishops provide a perfect excuse to those Catholics who will gloss over the intrinsic evils supported by Obama and vote for him.

When the Pope met Pelosi, he did not yuk it up with her in public, nor did he allow any photo ops.  He met with her in private, instructed her in Catholic doctrine and chided her to follow it.

What I find fascinating is the same people who were rallying behind the Cardinal just a few months ago are now ready to put his head on a pike.  I am flabberghasted.  What the real irony is that anyone who studies history knows that Mr Obama took ideas from FDR. But where did FDR look for inspiration?  He took Al Smith’s ideas and implemented them in the New Deal.  Long before FDR sought the presidency, he was Al Smith’s right hand man. Al Smith, as governor of NY passed nearly every thing the new deal had some 15 years prior to FDR taking office in 1933.  Besides his Catholicism (this country has been very anti-Catholic),the only reason Smith did not defeat Hoover in 1928 was that he was from NYC with an almost Irish-esque brogue; he did not sound down-homey enough for Middle America. It certainly wasn’t Hoover’s policies- which are remarkably similar to the Romney/ Ryan ticket.  But I digress…  The point is, Catholics, your ire is misdirected if you are truly upset by Cardinal Dolan’s continuing the tradition of inviting presidential candidates to the Al Smith dinner; your ire should be that there is an Al Smith Dinner to begin with. Reason: while Catholic, Al Smith makes Mr Obama look like a right winger.  This brings me to another point.  Is OK that Catholic Charities, which money from this dinner, take the money under the pretenses that Al Smith was a Catholic even though he was as liberal as they come?
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@ enness-  So you throw everything out because there is a flaw.  No more public streets because people die in traffic accidents.  My questions there are several I have regarding your simple minded approach to the world. How do you feel about big pharma that produce drugs that kill or deform the unborn? What about tobacco companies or alcohol companies? what about agribusiness companies that load our food supply with garbage that deform or kill the unborn?

“Many people consider it a scandal for a Catholic foundation and the Cardinal to host the virulently anti-life President when the Church is locked in an existential struggle against that same President.”

Yah and who was it that Jesus was always [scandalously] eating dinners with ... oh, yah, that’s right ... the SINNERS.

... just sayin’

@Starzec [“How do you feel about big pharma that produce drugs that kill or deform the unborn? What about tobacco companies or alcohol companies? what about agribusiness companies that load our food supply with garbage that deform or kill the unborn?”]  Funny,—-Bolshevik excerpts taken from the Communist Manifesto issued by both the Berkeley City Council and San Francisco Board of Supervisors.

The last time I was this outraged by our church leaders was when Ted Kennedy died.  Did he deserve a High mass with many of our church leaders officiating and on national TV yet?  I was so ashamed of being Catholic.  To top it off, his sister who died a week or two before or after and did so much was hardly mentioned.  Who was really responsible for Obama getting elected and the health mandate passing?  I’d say again, Catholics, because of our priests and bishops not speaking up.  Now look what we have.  Besides this, we seem to be loosing our religious liberties.  Hopefully, Ryan can teach some of these cardinals, bishops and many, but not all priests what Jesus really meant when he said “Give unto Caesar the things that are Caesar’s and to God, the things that are God’s.  I will be judged by what I do, not what the government does.  Don’t tell me that conservatives don’t care about poor people.  We do it ourselves and don’t depend on the government to do it. 
  I’ve been following Cardinal Dolan and pleased he is speaking out about the mandate.  Please don’t spoil it for us now.

When did the Register get hijacked by the Tea Party? I’ve stopped drinking years ago. But if The Register is a reliable barometer, compass, thermostat, THE Catholic “paper of record,” for the more traditionalist wing of the Church on these shores, I can hardly blame the rest of the more reasonably minded members of the Church for wanting to reach into their family’s respective (informal “medicine cabinet(s).” Hmmm, when did people start taking their Tea with the Kool Aid?

This is NUTS!

Steven Barrett ,
Which publication or newsite does not have these type of comments?
It’s a part of free speech. I’m tired of reading tirades & trolls on a Catholic site, but the alternative is politically correct moderation like you see at the BBC.

Right, because it makes you a tea party member to think Obama represents a threat to the Church. Because the HHS mandate only upset tea party members. Because only tea party members care about abortion and infanticide and religious liberty. I care neither for Republicans nor Democrats, but I thought I was standing for babies; I thought I was standing for the Church.
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And you’ve proved my point, that this action has marginalized and politicized those of us who thought we were simply standing for the basic moral teachings of the Church. Let me ask you, why did the bishops ask us to stand up and make our voices heard during those “Fortnight for Freedom” rallies if it was simply a partisan political issue like normal?
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What utter fools they’ve made of us.

Thank you for touching a sensitive nerve of American conservative Catholics.  The trust issue is of primary importance here.  His eminence will find that his delicate mission as president of the USCCB will suffer if he continues to include liars and interlopers in his “big tent” of acquaintances.  It is of even more concern that the USCCB, UNDER HIS LEADERSHIP, has continued to endorse “Forming Consciences for Faithful Citizenship”.  This document embraces the long discredited “seamless garment” approach to prolife issues as a primary means of forming Catholic lay consciences.  It was totally ineffective in 2008, and the same document is being peddled by the USCCB for 2012.  A majority of Catholics voted for the most radical pro-abortion president ever, because their consciences were poorly formed, and fell for the phony Democrat argumentation against the Republicans.  Something MORE needed to be done, but has not!!  This is a serious error on his watch!!

This is only a microcosm reflecting the huge disconnect between the clergy and pedestrian Catholics in the pew.  Bishops continue to live a fantasy land of “yes men” (their priests) and “yes Catholics” out of deference to them.  Those days are over except the Bishops (as usual) are in denial.  They supported Obama and now are upset because their Ox is the one being gored.  Even the way Dolan handled this affair by needing to clarify his position with a follow up bulletin shows how poorly skilled they are in media communications.  They are so much into “control” they won’t even hire skilled people.  Look at the Philadelphia Archdiocese. The CFO who stole 906K was promoted to CFO and had no Financial background.  Where was the background check?  Oh, she’s “Catholic”—that’s all they needed to know.  She will be sentenced on August 24.

This invitation has abnegated the nearly forgotten Fortnight for Freedom.

After reading the article and a fair number of comments, it seems that we could do a lot more to influence the outcome of the dinner (as well as the upcoming election) by doing as the Cardinal requests and praying for him, rather than blasting him.

Perhaps both might be in order!!

“As Jesus passed on from Nazareth, he saw a man named Matthew sitting at the tax-collector’s post, and said to him, ‘Follow me.’  And, he got up and followed him.  While he was at table in Matthew’s house, many tax collectors and sinners came and sat with Jesus and his disciples.  The Pharisees noticed this and said to his disciples, ‘Why does your teacher eat with tax collectors and sinners?’  Jesus overheard this and said, ‘Those who are well do not need a physician; but, the sick do.  Go and learn the meaning of the words, “It is mercy I desire, not sacrifice.”  I did not come to call the righteous, but sinners.’” (Mt 9:9-13)

@Br. Robert you must not have read any of the previous posts. As I said, I’ve been trying to pull myself out of sin for years, and no parish priest has ever had time for me -  not for dinners, barely for confessions. They’re always too damn busy. And that’s a shame, because I was not only willing to listen, I was begging for a goddamned teacher.
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Why is it the only sinners the Catholic Church has time for are the wealthy and powerful who attend fancy fundraisers? “Fr. Bill” doesn’t have time to hear my confession, but he sure as hell has time to sip margaritas at the parish fundraising fair. Cardinal Dolan doesn’t have time to listen to the concerns of struggling Catholics in the pews who might lose their businesses because of Obama’s mandate, but he has time to laugh it up at the Waldorf with the most powerful man in the world whose actions are not only sins, but rather *edicts* that will *force* others to sin.
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They have a word for this. It starts with an ‘H’ and rhymes with Pharisee.

I, too, am concerned.  In the old days, people like Obama were shunned.
They weren’t given any chance to air their views.
Perhaps Cardinal Dolan is just too young to be a wise Cardinal.

My purpose in writing is to plead on behalf of faithful Catholics who sit in the pews and will be destroyed as our country will be with four more years of obama lies.  You began with all of us behind your standing up against the mandate.  Don’t lose it now.  Please uninvite this fraudulent man who is so abortion bent, so dedicated to doing away with our country to speak at another Catholic tradition.  I am one voice, but every one - Catholic or not -  thinks it is wrong.  Why not give Mitt Romney a good opportunity by letting him speak and not have obama attacking him with more falsehoods, because that is all the liar knows.  You are our bishops’ leader.  Don’t lose the momentum with the bishops and with the American Catholics who will fight with you to keep our freedom.  You can stop it right now, by uninviting an unwelcome guest to God’s banquet.  Just do it on behalf of the 55+ million babies killed by abortion - which he supports. Please I beg you.

@Br. Robert Anthony [“While he was at table in Matthew’s house, many tax collectors and sinners came and sat with Jesus and his disciples.  The Pharisees noticed this and said to his disciples, why does your teacher eat with tax collectors and sinners?”  Go and learn the meaning of the words, “It is mercy I desire, not sacrifice.”  I did not come to call the righteous, but sinners.” (Mt 9:9-13).  ***  This is a typical response of those cloistered in Catholic academia.  Hey Brother, there is a difference.  Do you know the gospel?  The Tax Collectors, Prostitutes and other sinners already KNEW they were sinners seeking to hear this new Rabbi from Nazareth.  Obama claims to be a Christian, but rejects that he is—a sinner.  He probably has been listening to too many of Father Michael Phleger’s homilies when he freelances at Jeremiah Wright’s church.  Nothing Dolan will say Obama hasn’t already heard before.  And it will be disingenuous to invite Obama and then blindside him by scolding him.  The press will have a field day and Dolan will look like an ungracious host.  You are playing right into the hands of Obama strategists Axelrod, David Plouffe and Stephanie Cutter.

Because of our crazy tax laws, bishops cannot use names of politicians. However, given that limitation, Cardinal Dolan and the USCCB, and a great number of other bishops individually, have made clear as explicitly as possible that Catholics are required under pain of mortal sin to vote for Romney/Ryan and are forbidden under pain of mortal sin to vote for Obama/Biden. Cardinal Raymond Burke has made clear as a sort of megaphone on behalf of our Most Holy Father, Pope Benedict, that Rome—the Pope—holds it to be a mortal sin to vote for Obama and therefore an obligation under mortal sin to participate in this election and to vote against Obama, and therefore for Romney, who embodies fully the teaching of the Church even though he is not a Catholic or true Christian in his religion. Rome, and the college of successors to the apostles, the bishops, have spoken: the case is closed.

JESUS is very upset with you… How could so-called Christians forget Matthew 25:45? Right-wing false prophet pastors are trying to convince the flock “least of my brothers” has nothing to do with helping the poor or sick.

REPENT! Congregations must rise up and slay the evil false prophets or plague, infection, pestilence and flesh eating bacteria shall befall your children. Normally sane individuals will go insane from the vile crap spewed by FOX News.

One of the messengers, Lloyd the Baptist, predicted years ago. GOD DOESN’T WANT CONSERVATIVES TO VOTE! If you do vote for the evil Republicans in 2012, then you shall be in hell before the New Year. So it is written so shaLL it be done…

(NOTE: See post “A Christmas Message…” December 20, 2009 on jinnbad.blogspot.com) Rush Limbaugh died not long after, an imposter has been posing as Rush ever since.

whom will you vote for,you so called Roman Catholics: will you vote for the gospel of obama, or for the GOSPEL OF JESUS CHRIST?...will you choose LIFE, or will you choose Death

I’m beyond any respect for the Catholic Church. The church is suppose to guide and advise Catholics on the issues as they relate to the teachings of the Universal Church. They trusted Pres. Obama and their “blind trust” convinced voters to put a socialist in power that has resulted in the moral decay of the church and our nation. The Catholic Church played a critical role in making an “idea” a reality and now shares equally in the corruption and destruction of our nation. Sincerely, Sad. Disappointed. Disgusted Roman Catholic.

Posted by robert waligora on Friday, Aug 17, 2012 7:27 AM (EST):whom will you vote for,you so called Roman Catholics: will you vote for the gospel of obama, or for the GOSPEL OF JESUS CHRIST?...will you choose LIFE, or will you choose Death”
****
Just vote in November.That’s the bottom line.

RE: “He makes several point[sic] in his explanation. First, the invitation is not an award.”

Not everyone receives an invitation. It is in-itself an honor to receive the invitation to attend the dinner (let alone to make a speech).

Of all pivitol times in American history, Catholic shepherds do not need to be sending mixed messages. I’m not refering to Cardinal Dolan’s orthodoxy.

I’m referring to warning Catholics about this Administration’s hostility toward the Church, urging them to defend the common good and religious freedom, and urging them to not vote for candidates that support intrinsic evils, ALL THE WHILE the candidate that embodies what (faithful) Catholics are fighing against, is given the honor of being invited to an event where he’ll be all smiles and laughter with the Cardinal.

“I would that thou wert either hot or cold, but thou art lukewarm. Therefore I am about to spit you out of my mouth!” (Revelations 3)

And who exactly are you, to warn the Cardinal?

Sorry, I meant to say: “Just vote your conscience in November.”
That’s what will make the difference. Not casting aspersions on the internet.Do something positive.

I have a great deal of respect for Cardinal Dolan and though this situation makes me very nervous because the enemy publicly will use this against him, I think we do not know what is being said in private face to face. In addition, the unrelenting response of Catholics to this issue may give Cardinal Dolan the political ammunition he needs to convince Obama to change direction. Having said this we must continue to pray for the soul of the Democratic Party…how can you call the killing of an innocent pre-born child a right? It seems to me that only a seriously disfigured soul could say this in good conscience.

@Chip—“Having said this we must continue to pray for the soul of the Democratic Party…how can you call the killing of an innocent pre-born child a right? It seems to me that only a seriously disfigured soul could say this in good conscience.”  Then you would support Dolan beginning the excommunication from the Catholic church for Pelosi, Durbin, Biden and other Catholics in DC who all support abortion?

@Republican56— “The church is suppose to guide and advise Catholics on the issues as they relate to the teachings of the Universal Church.”  Yours are true words, (guide and advise).  Until there is ever an American born pope, the Vatican will never understand the American ethos.  Capitalism in the United States is not the same as in all nations and how we apply Christian values.  You want examples of Christ-like compassion and love for the least of our bretheren?  Look no further than America.  No nation on earth has done more to lift the world out of tyranny, poverty, and provide advances in health, science, medicine, education, engineering, food production, communications and in missions to spread the gospel of Jesus Christ around the world.  Are we perfect? No.  Do we makes mistakes?  Yes.  But show me nation who has done more for the world’s poor?  As we have been blessed, so too, we have been a blessing to others.  Our Bishops should realize the “social” gospel only encourages a life long dependecy by the individual to the government.

Has the Cardinal even considered the millions of Catholics whom he will be scandalizing that outweighs all.  I feel betrayed.

It all comes down to the unborn babies whose murder is championed by this man. I cannot believe the cardinal would invite someone who supported stabbing a cardinal in the back of the neck and sucking out his brains. I can’t believe he would invite a man who favors stabbing teenagers in the neck and sucking out their brains. So are the babies in the womb (as each of us once was) as valuable as princes of the church and teenagers? Absolutely yes in my book which means absolutely no invite to Obama!

The vitrol, character assinations, and advocacy of Church intervention in politics and government in the article and in most of the comments is truly astounding and alarming.  And we call ourselves Catholics and followers of Christ. God help us.
 

@Mary Blair— Since when are Catholics not allowed to have opinions?  “And we call ourselves Catholics and followers of Christ.”  We sure do !!  Have you asked that of Cardinal Law and Monsignor Lynn?

As many times as I read the posts on these boards I keep seeing the same thing about President Obama leveling attacks at the Catholic Church.  I watch and listen to both conservative, yes even Fox News, and liberal news stations, read both conservative and liberal news magazines and I have yet to ever see President Obama verbally or otherwise attack the Catholic Church in public or otherwise. The 8th Commandment says and I quote: “THOUGH SHALT NOT BEAR FALSE WITNESS AGAINST THY NEIGHBOR”.  Not even the conservative media or even Mitt Romney himself have spewed such hatred for President Obama as I have seen on these National Catholic Register boards.

Alright, I must say I agree with those who are shocked at the toxicity of the comments (mostly mine). This political situation is getting to our heads (well, it’s gotten to mine).
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But those who are chiding us for being angry also have to realize that this is very personal and emotional to those of us who are looking at the possible loss of businesses and struggling with basic faith issues on top of everything – it’s not just an abstract political situation for many of us. With all the pressure and all the toxicity, a little pebble like this dinner invitation can cause an avalanche of pent-up doubt and anger. That being said, everyone has my most sincere apologies for the over-the-top comments – I had a rather out-of-character tantrum. A little prayer for the whole Church would indeed go a lot further than internet rants right now.
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@CeCi None of the mainstream media outlets, including Fox News, have done a particularly good job reporting how the HHS mandate will force Catholic hospitals, charities, schools and businesses to violate their consciences or close their doors. But it’s a very big issue for those of us who are affected by it and it is indeed an attack on the Catholic Church, particularly since other religious groups and secular businesses have received exemptions from the same rules – hence the upset.

@CeCi (defender of pro-abortion Ted Kennedy) [“and I quote: “THOU SHALT NOT BEAR FALSE WITNESS AGAINST THY NEIGHBOR”.]  Is David Axelrod your brother-in-law?  You like quotes, CeCi?  I got a quote for you right here:  How about “THOU SHALT NOT KILL” /—do no murder.  Your guy, Obama, supports partial-birth aboriton.

Jesus met with everyone including sinners, but he wasn’t afraid to speak the Truth to those who opposed Him. Mother Teresa met with everyone including sinners of all stripes, buts she wasn’t afraid to speak the Truth. I think Cardinal Dolan is doing the same. As long as he speaks Truth in the face of those who oppose Truth.

Patti,—Fine.  Then just don’t have Dolan and my Bishop ask me ever again to sign petitions, make phone calls, write letters and contact my Senators and Representatives in Congress.  Obama has already heard “truth” and has rejected truth.  He is not uniformed about truth.

My concern is that Cardinal Dolan’s attempt to convert one soul may result in millions of souls being misled into a great sin. This is why this sort of thing should be done in private, out of the public eye, and not at a public Catholic dinner honoring Obama. 
-I believe that in his wisdom, the Pope understood this when he chose to meet Pelosi privately without cameras, and then issued his statement before she could run out the door to the cameras that were waiting to broadcast her statement.
-This is, I think, what Cardinal Dolan does not understand.

Well now New Observer from what I have seen, Roe vs Wade has been on the law books since January 1973 the Supreme Court made it law. Richard Nixon (R) was president and from what I understand he never stated any objections to the law.  We’ve had Republican presidents from 1980 to 1992 and from 2000 to 2008 claiming to be pro-life and they never tried to overturn the law.  I guess it’s because the President of the United States does not have the power to overturn laws made by the Supreme Court so if you’re looking for the real baby killers look at the justices who were on the Supreme Court in 1973 and I don’t see the current justices biting at the bit to overturn Roe vs Wade. Ted Kennedy is dead now and has been judged accordingly.

Thank you @ Lindsay!  I totally support your right to your own beliefs and opionions, as well as those of most who have commented here.  However, I simply wanted to express my complete dismay with the unwarrented, personal invective and insults that appear in so many posts.

@Posted in the pew “Since when are Catholics not allowed to have opinions?”
I honor your right to have your opinion, but take issue with using personal attacks and character assassination that many comments here resort to.  Re Cardinal Law & Msgr. Lynn, I’m not sure what your point is. Clearly, both
were guilty of protecting sexual predators and while the former was protected by the Vatican after resigning, the later has answered to the criminal justice system.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
I often read on the blogs comments that sweepingly talk about clergy who are not faithful to their vocation.  When I see bishops and priest being described as “Catholic” with quotation marks by commenters I wonder who made them arbiters of orthodoxy.  When I hear how “tired” people are of “wishy washy clerics” (or other such insults) I wonder why they are so “tired?”  We all have stories of clerics who do not courageously proclaim the truth of the faith.  We have all heard of the some of the apostasies of the past.  Some are still going on. 
Yet there are plenty of clerics who faithfully live out the vocation of Holy Orders.  How long do we have to hear over and over about those who aren’t?  Or is this just an excuse used to condemn others based on personal definitions of orthodoxy.
There are many good clerics who are doing what they are called to do.  Cardinal Dolan has proven himself to be a cleric who stands with Christ and for the Church.  We might not agree with his invitation to the President but do we need to demonize him if we don’t?  The viciousness and anger in the comments here are amazing.  While all are entitled to have an opinion, is rudeness, mean judgment or hubris necessary? Does this build up the faith, honor the Lord, help others grow in union with the Holy Trinity and the Church?  My prayer is that the folks who so self righteously condemn the Cardinal and any others who don’t agree with them might find a more merciful judge on the Last Day.

Thank you, father Phillip!

“Cardinal Dolan has proven himself to be a cleric who stands with Christ and for the Church.”

Oh really, Father Phillip?  At best he’s proven himself to be a living embodiment of the Peter Principle (promoted to his level of incompetence), at worst he’s willingly guilty of scandal as any Archbishop of New York has ever been.  He was a cipher in Milwaukee and now he’ll even violate the USCCB guidelines he himself (presumably) agreed to regarding giving this anti-Catholic President a microphone at a Catholic photo-op. 

This entire situation is digraceful.  You Catholic laity who know you’re getting fleeced:  don’t let those priests and laity on the gravy train tut-tut you into silence.  This is Christ’s Church, not theirs.  When your Cardinal Archbishop is a white-washed tomb who seeks human approval instead of God’s, speak out loudly so that right-thinking Catholics of quieter mien aren’t intimidated.  Next time the Catholic League sends an envelope, send it back with a note—or in my case, a cancellation of membership. 

Pray and fast for the Fortnight—while the LEADING CATHOLIC IN THE US yucks it up over good wine and laughs.  Antagonize liberal parishioners (I’ve lost two major donors over the Fortnight and related HHS USCCB bulletin inserts) while the bigwigs carry-on as usual, just like the corrupt bishops on the eve of the Reformation.  Sorry, Your Eminences and Excellencies, but the Catholic faithful and priests are getting a bit wearied by your “rules for thee, not for me!”  It was sickening seeing it exposed during the sexual abuse crisis and it jars once again over this existential fight for religious liberty.

FrMichael, a thoroughly disgusted parish priest

Glory to Jesus Christ! FrMichael, I too lost members of my parish over the Fortnight.  I endured seminary when things were nuts as did many of us.  I also am disgusted with the bishops response to the abuse crisis which seems to apply to priests and deacons but not bishops.
I don’t have the Cardinal as my ordinary so I can only rely on what is published in the Catholic press.
The main point I was trying to make is what does reviling the Cardinal (and by extension, the pope who elevated him, as in “Peter Principle”) accomplish? Does it strengthen the faith?  Does it draw others closer to the Lord?

@ fr Phillip and @ Fr. Michael While I see you are on opposite ends of the spectrum regarding Cardinal Dolan’s invitations to the Al Smith dinner, I note you both lament the loss of parishoners on the fornight to freedom and the persecution of the LCWR.  These are but 2 horrific examples of the heirarchy acting in ways that make a mockery of Christ like decipleship, and thus cause scandal to the faithful who see the Catholic Church entering the arena of politics and government & persecuting religous women whose lives epitomize the gospel message.
Continuation on this path will result in more empty pews at Mass on Sunday.

@Zeke

“Or that on day 1 of a Republican Presidency, the ACA (supported and endorsed by the Church) will be repealed, setting the country back to square one on health care reform?”

Oh, God, please let that be true! 

Oh, and thanks, Zeke, for reminding me of another reason to be concerned about Cardinal Dolan’s decision making.  Didn’t he announce that the bishops would not be opposing or seeking any changes in Obamacare after the voters had expressed their outrage in the 2010 elections?  In other words, those 85% of us who liked and want to keep the health care plans we have don’t matter to our bishops, nor did it matter to them about the corrupt way in which the Democrat controlled Congress pushed this through, locking out Republicans in its formulation and leaning on those so-called “pro-life” Democrats to “take one” for good old, pro-abortion, pro-infanticide President Obama? 

We can have confidence that the pro-abortion, pro-homosexual marriage party, which is so morale about the needs of “little people,” will have our best interest at heart, can’t we?  Surely the bishops, in their non opposition to Obamcare, made sure that the healthcare program the Democrats created will be as morale for us Catholics as the one the Democrats took away from us, didn’t they?. Surely, they wouldn’t support the creation of a 15 member “death panel,” with no oversight by Congress, would they?

Fathers Michael and Philip, welcome.  A question, if I may.  Reference Life In Christ - A Catholic Catechism for Adults (published 1995).  Section 36, The Fifth Commandment. Question #11.  Are religious and racial prejudice against the fifth commandment? “....To deny any person her or his rights is a sin against justice as well as charity.  This is particularly true in the case of joining an organization (such as the Nazi Party or the Ku Klus Klan) which promotes racial, ethnic or religious hatred.”

I want to focus on, “To deny any person her of his rights is a sin against justice as well as charity.”

In the 1958 publication of Life In Christ - Instructions in the Catholic Faith, the answer to question 11 above was, “Yes….To deny him his rights is a sin against justice as well as charity.  This is particularly true in the case of joining an organization which promotes segregation or ANY OTHER DENIAL OF HUMAN RIGHTS” (my emphasis).

Both answers teach that it is “particularly a sin” if one “joins an organization…which promotes” the denial of human rights.

Why, if it is “particularly a sin” against the fifth commandment to join an organization that denies human rights, is it NOT a sin to join the Democrat Party which promotes the denial of the right to life, the most basic human right of all?

In 1958, legal abortion was not an issue and the Democrat Party did not have a position on abortion, as far as I know.  But it certainly was an issue in 1995, and the Democrat Party took a position years earlier in support of legal abortion, defending and promoteing it.  So, why are the bishops silent on this teaching?  How was this addressed in the seminaries?

@Zeke “Why, if it is “particularly a sin” against the fifth commandment to join an organization that denies human rights, is it NOT a sin to join the Democrat Party which promotes the denial of the right to life, the most basic human right of all?”

I am amazed you ask this question, since we live in the United States of America where citizens live in a democracy and may vote for whomever they chose. Surely, there will be many good Catholics who will vote their conscience and caste their vote for whom they perceive to be the best candidate.  Good Catholics will vote for Obama and good Catholics will vote for Romney. That is as it should be.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
Hi Mary Blair, I can’t speak for Fr. Michael but for me the Fortnight was a wonderful success in my parish.  Over 100 people came each night.  I was lamenting the loss of 2 members of the parish because they disagreed with it.  I don’t believe that they needed to leave the parish (in one case the Catholic Church) they simply did not need to participate.  The Fortnight was a good thing; the HHS mandate is a bad thing.  The Church needs to become involved whenever the rights of conscious are threatened by the government.  My lament was over the fact that 2 people did not get this and that the HHS mandate is bad for people and for the freedom of living the faith.
I did not mention the LCWR but since it was mentioned I am thankful that the Church (yes, the Church through the bishops) is calling the group to account.  While LCWR has its supporters I know of none personally that disagrees with Rome’s take on the group.  The Church like any organization has parameters for what we do and what we believe.  LCWR does not seem to believe there are any parameters.  Rights of conscious in the Church are based on forming the conscious according to the teaching and beliefs of the Church.
My parish does not have many empty pews; it is thriving (because of the grace of God and the cooperation of members with this grace).  Is it a perfect place?  No. Does everyone accept all the teachings of the Church here? I don’t know and I don’t ask. All are welcome to come and worship the Holy Trinity, to serve each other and the community and to find a place to live the Catholic faith.  I do know that the folks seem to love the faith and care for each other.  Those that might have disagreements with certain teachings are free to voice them, but they do not ask that these teachings be redefined or changed to suit what they disagree with.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
Hi Stilbelieve, I would check out what the Catechsim of the Catholic Church states regarding your question.  Since the Church has not made a judgement on membership in any political party in the USA it is not my place to attempt to do so even if I was inclined to do so.

@ Fr. Phillip @Stillbelieve
I think “...check the Catholic Catechism regarding your question”(ie it should be a sin to be a member of the Democrat party) and “Since the Catholic church has not made a judgement on membership in a political party..”
are evasive responses.  But I applaud your willingness for parishoners to disagree and voice their opinions about
church teachings. I only wish the leadership of the USCCB and Vatican heirarchy would do the same.  It somehome seems to me to be a profound contradiction to claim the ACC and or HHS rules(which are not finalized) regarding this law are violating religous liberty, when the USCCB and the Vatican silence questioning voices from clergy,nuns and laity who want to dialoge about issues that are so important.
While we have 56,000 nuns and 18,000 priests in the US today, in a 10 year period those numbers will be cut in half.  In the 50th anniversary year of Vatican II which will begin a few months
from now, our the heirarchy is focused on orthodoxy, not on the crisis we are in and that which looms ahead.
We will not fill our churches by hammering people over the head with orthodoxy.
The pharisees were into that in Jesus’ time too. 
Ubi caritas, Deus ibi est!

Prayer and sacrifice are the only things that can bring our country, our leaders, and our society to God. Again, PLEASE PRAY for Bishop Dolan, our politicians, our bishops, and our country. What grace could we bring if we gave up posting for the next few months and spent the time in prayer instead? Last post for me; I’m committing to it; I’m inviting you all to join me.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
Mary, Stillbelieve
No, it is not evasive to state that there is no Church teaching which holds that it is a sin to belong to specific political parties in the USA.  The bishops of the USA have never stated this nor has anyone else with authority done so.  What I said is no more or no less than what the Church teaches.
Regarding the LCWR, all Catholics are free to doubt or question.  I don’t believe any individual or group is free to deny Church teaching stating that their views are Catholic belief or teaching.  LCWR has long denied certain teachings or at least stated that there are opposing understandings of Church teaching.
Regarding vocations to religious life, very few of the LCWR communities are growing.  We can argue the reasons.  If these communities are open to so many things other than orthodoxy and that’s what people want why are they not growing?
Member communities of LCWR have many Sisters who are faithful to the Church and live out the corporal and spiritual works of mercy.  These Sisters are not necessarily well represented by the Leadership Teams who belong to LCWR.
Orthodoxy and orthopraxis go hand in hand, they cannot be separated and thrive.
What is good is that we can state this opinions and not be nasty or rude about it.  I appreciate that.  Thank you.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
mb, well said!

  In my opinion it is not “orthodoxy” that has caused all the problems in the Church since Vatican II but rather the exact opposite which is called “HETERODOXY” The lack of clear and “orthodox” teaching mostly in the area of human sexuality after 1968 when Pope Paul released his landmark teaching “Of Human Life” (which Cardinal Dolan himself admitted) is what is causing this continuing crisis in the Church and in the Western World (“We wanted to be Chums with the World”) Well said Your Eminence!

I’m with you mb - last blog comment for at least a few months! We should all start a petition to Stop Posting and Start Praying. And really, they ought to make the “submit” button harder to find - might give people like me pause before we sin through the comboxes.

As much as I am disappointed by this invitation to Obama perhaps we need to consider the possibility Cardinal Dolan wants to give Romney an equal opportunity to converse with the Bishops. The Cardinal had to take this into considertion as well.

Aug. 18…we - Catholics for Obama - want to thank Cardinal Dolan for being civil enough to invite President Obama as the Keynote speaker at a major Catholic fundraiser. This will give President Obama the opportunity and the platform to show Catholics that he is a good man and that he has done his best to work things out with Catholics, especially with Cardinal Dolan.
Catholics will be a key vote in the upcoming election which will be very,
very close and we are hoping that this event, this dinner with the Cardinal and other prominent Catholics will bring President Obama across the finish line to victory. The Newman Society is trying to prevent us from rallying the Catholic troops but they will not succeed because we have very prominent Catholics as leaders including several pro-abortion rights politicians and faculty members at Catholic Colleges including Sister Jamie Phelps, director of the Institute for Black Catholic Studies at Xavier University and Nicholas Cafardi, a canon and civil lawyer, a theologian at Boston College, Stephen Schneck of Catholic University of America and we will try to show that President Obama is more pro-life than Mitt Romney and we will succeed now thanks to Cardinal Dolan’s precious invite. Kathleen Sebelius is on our side as is the widow of the late Sen. Ted Kennedy. Her husband, Ted, had been uninvited by a Catholic College at the request of the local Bishops so she is very grateful that Cardinal Dolan has seen the light and understands that we are all one, anti-life/pro-death…the important thing is that we put our differences aside and show some civility in the public square. The Newman Society seems to be worried that this invite will put Obama in office for another term and give him the opportunity to carry out more forcefully and aggressively his anti-life agenda. Pres. Obama will do that but he will do good things for the country and if it is at the expense of the Catholic Church and other faith groups, that is as it must be for the good of all. And let’s thank Simcha for telling Catholics and pro-lifers to stand down - having Pres. Obama as the Keynote speaker will help his re-election team to show that Catholics should indeed stand down and stop protesting the good Cardinal’s invite. What’s done is done and they need to stand down and accept it. There will be time after Obama is reelected to dialogue about the lives of the unborn…now is campaign time so put that off for a while.
Pres. Obama respects the Catholic groups that stand with him and is sending out a call to come to his aid and we will be there for him. Thank you, Cardinal Dolan, for understanding and for being there for President Obama and giving him the honor and the platform he deserves. We will not forget.

Lest I repeat myself, it is: Precisely, my dear Watson (Pat Archbold).

How would Obama and Pals have spun the matter, had Cardinal Dolan disinvited him?

Maybe that was weighed as the greater evil, given the whining rhetoric from the Obama camp and Planned Parenthood. Plenty of uber-liberals think that Obama accomodated us TOO much, and that we’re just trying to ban birth control for the whole country (and these are people with advanced degrees . . . ). If the truth is spun so clearly out of whack in one context, how much worse would it be, given a charity dinner that historically includes the president and his opponent?

Obama would have cried about how he was soooo happy to support the cause, and that he, too, would just looooove to see an end to abortion. And that Catholics are just oh-such-wonderful little worker bees, when they properly align themselves with him and his goals, not that silly Pope. And if Catholics and government could juuuust work together, they could end abortion. And then he’d cry some more about how we’re being all mean at him, and how we’re not “being fair,” not willing to “compromise.”

Please, let’s all pray and prepare ourselves for the foolish rhetoric that will befall us, thanks to the Obama campaign and their BFF, the media. Let’s be prepared to present truth and facts, in the face of whining and sound bites and photo ops.

@CATHOLICS FOR OBAMA.  He writes [“President Obama is more pro-life than Mitt Romney and we will succeed now thanks to Cardinal Dolan’s precious invite. Kathleen Sebelius is on our side as is the widow of the late Sen. Ted Kennedy. Her husband, Ted, had been uninvited by a Catholic College at the request of the local Bishops so she is very grateful that Cardinal Dolan has seen the light and understands that we are all one.” 

1.  Obama supports partial birth abortion.  2.  Obama has said unplanned pregnancies are a “mistake” he does not want any woman to bear.  3.  Sebelius supports abortion.  4.  The widow of Ted Kennedy is on “your side.”  Do you mean Joan-who Ted drove into alcoholism and divorced her—-OR do you mean Vicki (the Other Woman) who Ted could not marry in the Catholic church?  5.  Dolan has seen the light and understands that we are all one.  One what?  If Dolan is the best the Vatican can do at selecting Cardinals, a better choice would have been Mark McGwire.

+JMJM+
This article was tasteful, logical and correctly charitable. Well said. Let us pray for Card. Dolan, who I am sure is being attacked by the devil, if not for his vocation alone!

I see some familiar names attached to commentaries on this very prudent letter. Indeed, I am not surprised by the blatant outpouring of animosity that I have been so unfortunate to encounter, especially within the Jansenist-leaning so-called “Traditionalists”.
Let me make this entirely clear. I am PRO ECCLESIA CONTRA MUNDUM, and agree that there are MANY MANY leaders—who hold Holy Orders or are laymen—who are self serving and narcissistic. Some even willing to try and infiltrate the Church and corrupt Her within. Indeed, the hardest people I have worked with in Theological ministry tend to call themselves “Catholic”—embracing both spectrums of extremism! The issue stands, that we as informed Roman Catholics must and will DEFEND our Faith and Morals, and yes—like our Coptic Christian brethren who were recently crucified in Egypt—many of us may be called to shed our blood for our FAITH. How can we love God without reserve, and desire His Will when we embrace a focus of “Truth is relative”, or just as insidious—“My IDEA of WHO GOD IS is final and perfect, and if you don’t agree, you are going to Hell.” For those who embrace either view, Just exactly who do you think you are? You are a small, finite person, who cannot begin to encompass WHO GOD IS, you can only open your heart fully and seek Him in Truth, Peace and Joy—which are all from the Holy Spirit, and which is easily stifled by Jansenism and Narcissism—both of which find their foundation in insidious pride!
WE MUST LOVE AND SEEK OUT our Faith; we must NEVER abandon our priests, but pray and sacrifice for them—and speak out zealously for Truth in Charity. Who will give us the words to say, that will cut through to the heart of those who listen? The Holy Spirit will infuse our words, but only if we are open to Him. Truth is hard to hear sometimes, but you become stumbling blocks for God when your pride and personal animosity overcomes His work in you, a work of Peace, zealous Joy and love for souls—and a desire for ALL to be saved, for each soul is uniquely precious to HIM.
Look to the Saints—St. Catherine of Sienna; St. Teresa of Avila; St. Ignatius of Loyola; St. Thomas Moore; St. Maximilian Kolbe; Bl. Mother Teresa of Calcutta—look to how they addressed the corruption inside the Church and without…and follow their examples, lest you condemn yourself by hindering the Holy Spirit, wounding and discrediting the Sacred Servants of God (His priests) and the Work given to each of us to co-operate in His Holy Will.
Pax et Bonum!

Fr. Philip

“Since the Church has not made a judgment on membership in any political party in the USA it is not my place to attempt to do so even if I was inclined to do so.”

While they have NOT made “membership in any political party” a sin, they have made it a sin to “join” other “organizations” that deny human rights.  Denying the human right to life seems far more serious to me, and has a greater impact on society than what those other organizations deny.  Furthermore, the bishops implied in “Faithful Citizenship” a judgment using moral relativism to the detriment of Catholic Democrats being able to develop a properly formed conscience.  Case in point from Faithful Citizenship 2007:

“34. Catholics often face difficult choices about how to vote. This is why it is so
important to vote according to a well-formed conscience that perceives the proper
relationship among moral goods. A Catholic cannot vote for a candidate who takes
a position in favor of an intrinsic evil, such as abortion or racism, if the voter’s
intent is to support that position. In such cases a Catholic would be guilty of formal
cooperation in grave evil. At the same time, a voter should not use a candidate’s
opposition to an intrinsic evil to justify indifference or inattentiveness to other
important moral issues involving human life and dignity.”

Here, the bishops are spiritually advising that it is alright to join and vote for a political party on issues of prudential judgment as long as you personally don’t support the intrinsic evil that party promotes.  On the other hand, they caution not to automatically support a candidate who may have the right moral thinking on the intrinsic evil issue, but may not have proper moral reasoning or “interest” on prudential judgment issues.  Notice that they identify a couple intrinsic evil issues (which just happen to be always associated with the Democrat Party) while they neglect to identify a single prudential judgment issue implied to be associated with other major party.

The fact that tens of millions of Catholics who profess to believe God is the giver of life, and pray for God’s “will be done on earth,” voluntarily give their name identification and votes to a political organization that is diabolically opposed to what they profess to believe and pray for, seems not to matter to the bishops.  The fact that Catholics are the single, largest voting block for the pro-abortion party also doesn’t seem to matter to the bishops.  That latter point is why abortion-on-demand remains the law of the land.  If Catholics were to go on strike and boycott (a favorite tactic of the Democrat Party) the Democrat Party, the party would have to change their position on abortion or cease to be politically viable, in which case we could get legislation passed to end legal abortions and get judges appointed to support that position.

That being said, I wonder if you may know a couple good theologians that I could discuss this with; not wanting to take up any more time or space away from Pat Archbold’s article warning Cardinal Dolan. 

@stilbelive:  Excellent logic for Fr. Phiip to digest.  If all Catholics in unison refused to support Democrats who support abortion, Pelosi, Durbin, Leahy, Cuomo, et al would all be looking for new work.  In fact, the DNC platform would need to be changed for fear of being virtually a tiny minority in the Congress.  Thus, Catholics who continually support these people are clearly “OK” regarding this intrinsic evil proclaimed by the church.  Such voting selections are thus considered sinful and must be confessed and repented to a priest lest one die in a state of mortal sin.  Reliance upon the church’s teaching of “having an informed conscience” is not an excuse for exercising one’s choice to knowingly accept an intrinsic evil.  Catholics who support abortion rights politicians are acting in rebellion against the teaching of the Magisterium and Holy Father—(Vicar of Christ Himself on earth).

mb, do you mean that all the prayers in all the Masses throughout the country and all the other prayers and fasting outside of the Masses, in all the years since Roe v Wade have not been enough?  What I think has not been enough is “works put into action” to show our faith and professed beliefs.  Catholics hold the key to the legalization of intrinsic evil.  Could it be our nation and people are experiencing God’s punishment for not doing the simplest thing; Catholics simply removing their name from the pro-abortion party’s voter registration list and not support them election day until they reverse their position as a party on Roe v Wade and legal abortion? They don’t have to become Republicans; just stop being Democrats until the party changes.

@Mary Blair

“We will not fill our churches….”

Is that what is important to God?

@stilbelieve:  I don’t have a problem with Catholic Democrats NOT joining the Republican party, just exiting the Dems.  Hey Fr. Philip, when is the last time you gave a homily on 2 Chronicles 7:14   “if my people who are called by My name humble themselves, and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, then I will hear from heaven and will forgive their sin and heal their land.”  ???  I thought so.  “If *MY* people ??  Do MY people belong to the DNC and Obama or do Catholics belong to the Lord?

Regarding the filling of churches.  Easy to have ritual without righteousness.

@Mary Blair

I’m not Zeke, but I’ll respond to your comment as I am the one who asked the question.

You said, “I am amazed you ask this question….”

I’m “amazed” you didn’t read the facts I stated before the question I asked as the Catholic Church does teach it is a sin to deny one their human rights and names at least two such organizations; the Nazi Party and the Ku Klux Klan.  Belonging to those two organizations are sins against the 5th Commandment.

You are correct in stating we live in the United States of America but the Church has the right and responsibility to instruct its followers in the Catholic faith and teach what is good and evil behavior according to God’s teaching.  And while we have a democracy here and can vote, God has created the world and has created us humans given us free will which we use according to our consciences.  And some of us will be going to heaven and some will be going to hell based on our free will. 

As for there being “good” Catholics who are going to be voting for Obama, and “good” Catholics who are going to be voting for Romney, that depends on the definition of what “good” is, paraphrasing a famous line from a former Democrat president.

I am appalled at the level of criticism directed at Cardinal Dolan. If we trust him (and I do) we have to realize that he took this decision to prayer as well as intellectualized it. We may disagree with the decision but we must always remember to act Christ-like in our responses. The vitriol directed at Cardinal Dolan and the call that petitions be signed asking him to rescind the invitation is very disturbing. Cardinal Dolan has been appointed in this time by the Holy Father. We must pray for him and trust him.

I too am disappointed in Cardinal Dolan’s decision to invite Obama to the fund raiser.  His predessors had a enough common sense not to invite others who believed in the culture of death. Obama was sworn into office on a Tuesday with the world watching.  On the following Friday evening without cameras he rescinded the Mexico City mandate that forbade abortion funding for other countries.  Obama may not be bashing the Catholic Church out loud but behind close doors he is doing his best to conqueor and divide the Catholic Church. It doesn’t matter what your political preference is.  What matters is that Obama is not re-elected to continued his destruction against the Church and his continue promotion of killing unborn babies.

Pat,
I think you are a bit too trusting of the Cardinal and you give him far too much credit. I would submit that his response to the greatest challenge to ‘Life’ has been to redirect it exclusively to a challenge to religious freedom. This has the effect of helping the administration and the attack on ‘Life’. He also uses Euphemisms about the danger and threat to ‘Life’. Examples to follow below, but first I have to ask, where does he draw the Line? What more would the President have to do to be considered unworthy of an invite to a charity dinner? Cardinal O’Connor drew the line at partial-birth abortion. Where is Cardinal Dolan’s line? Does he have one?
This is from the Cardinal’s excuse or apology IF he has given scandal.
‘The objections are somewhat heightened this year, since the Catholic community in the United States has rightly expressed vigorous criticism of the President’s support of the abortion license, and his approval of mandates which radically intruded upon Freedom of Religion.’

That is a real softening of reality. ‘The President’s support of the abortion license’ is that a Euphemism? I think something is missing. Oh and he approves mandates which intrude upon Freedom of Religion. Well as long as the promotion of his sterilization and abortion pill plan doesn’t intrude upon our Catholic institutions Freedom not to participate will that make it ok? No. This issue is much more than just Freedom of Religion. The Cardinal is afraid to state the facts. You will not hear him state what the mandate actually requires.  Under Obamacare in Oregon minors the age of 15 will be able to be sterilized without parental consent.  There should be an outcry from the bishops about this but instead we are being fed a threat to our religious freedom that no one in America will take seriously. Americans will always believe that it is the land of the free. 

When the accommodation was first announced, the Cardinal made a statement which helped the administration.  He also sent a letter to the parishes which pretty much told the parishioners that the bishops were looking into it and the parishioners didn’t need to do anything. This was his statement, widely reported by the media. You can google it.

“Today’s decision to revise how individuals obtain services that are morally objectionable to religious entities and people of faith is a first step in the right direction,” Dolan said. “We hope to work with the administration to guarantee that Americans’ consciences and our religious freedom are not harmed by these regulations.”

Did you know that these regulations were actually ‘services’. Is that what we think about sterilization and abortion inducing drugs? Is it really just a matter about how we obtain these so called ‘services’? Is it really ok if the administration finds a way to distribute these ‘services’ as long as it doesn’t harm our freedom? This almost sounds like a job application. It doesn’t sound like he wants the mandate rescinded just amended so that it won’t affect him.  That is not acceptable.

I also don’t accept the Cardinal’s response that Jesus ate with sinners and the Holy Father met with the President or that we need to be good civil Americans. But those topics have all been addressed by other posts.

@veritas:  [“I am appalled at the level of criticism directed at Cardinal Dolan.”]  Go ahead, knock yourself out.  [“We must pray for him and trust him.”]  Why?  He has been proven untrustworthy.  He asked for my trust and support calling DC politicians and signing petitions and then threw us under the bus.  Why should I trust him now?  My trust is in Christ (not in Dolan—the man—nor his title of church prince).

If “Pastor” Moses could call out Pharaoh (the most powerful official on earth), why can’t Dolan do the same?  Must be that precious 503c status with the IRS he is worried about.  The Scriptures do not tell us that Moses ever sat down and broke bread with Pharaoh.  So why can’t Dolan stand for righteousness against Pharaoh Obama?  Perhaps the Exodus is not part of what they teach in the seminary.

@New Observer - As Christians we don’t use language that is not “Christ Like”. Did it ever occur to you that Cardinal Dolan takes literally Jesus’ command to dine with sinners? If you want to use passages from the Bible to support your argument then that is a prime one to consider. Jesus continually invited sinners to repentance and conversion. How much must we forgive,Jesus was asked. “Seventy times seven” Jesus responded. Simcha Fisher wrote a wonderful piece on Cardinal Doln on her blog.

To Veritas,
The Bible has to be taken in context, we don’t read everything literally. The proper context is not that Jesus ate with sinners but how he treated the King - Herod and how he treated the Pharisees. Obama is not going to see the Cardinal because he claims to be a sinner. He is most similar to the King. Please read the Bible and literally answer how Jesus treated the King. It wasnt civilly. For our critism of the Cardinal, please read how Jesus spoke to the Pharisees.

@paul b

“Obama is not going to see the Cardinal because he claims to be a sinner.”

You are 100% correct.  Nor is he accepting the Cardinal’s invitation because he is interested in hearing what the Cardinal has to say.

@veritas:  stilbelieve is correct.  Obama is not interested in what Dolan has to say nor is his Catholic advisor Axelrod.  You wrote:  [“If you want to use passages from the Bible to support your argument then that is a prime one to consider. Jesus continually invited sinners to repentance and conversion.”]  If your statement true, veritas, I didn’t see Jesus giving these invitations when standing before Caiaphas, Herod—-nor the Pharisees (except for Nicodemus).  Why Nicodemus? —because he was interested in what Jesus had to say.  Jesus engaged in discussion with Pontius Pilate because he, also, was interested in what Jesus had to say.  Obama claims to be a Christian.  Many people do but the fruit is not in them.  Veritas, it is important for you to develop a mature understanding of the gospel.  Dolan may understand the Eucharist, we don’t know what his understanding is regarding the gospel.

Aug. 21st Veritas, this is not a dinner to ‘forgive’ - as far as I know, Obama has not asked to be ‘forgiven’ for advancing a pro-death agenda, for voting against the ‘born alive infant act’ because he did not and does not want the infant who survives and abortion to be given care and comfort. Obama stepped up has agenda against Christians and against life AFTER Card. Dolan invited him to the Al Smith dinner..Obama may see that invitation as a weakness on the Cardinal’s part or as a sign that the Cardinal is willing to bend…whatever, it’s not about ‘forgiveness’, it’s about the extermination of millions of human lives which will be taking place even as the Cardinal is partying with Obama.  If Obama had ordered the extermination of the Cardinal’s family and many had already been killed and the killing was continuing, would the Cardinal still have invited Obama to a dinner party?  I asked almost the same question of Cardinal Law in a letter I wrote to him at the height of the molestation of children scandal.  I asked the Card. Law if he would have sent a child molester to a school where his nieces and nephews were?  I do not question the Cardinals motives only his judgement…and we as members of the Body of Christ have not only a right to question but an obligation to question as long as we do so respectfully.

FYI:  Obama on the campaign stump yesterday re abortion as reported on NBC’s TODAY SHOW this morning:  “That battle was over —20 or 30 years ago.”  Historically, Obama is inaccurate.  Next year it will be 40 years since Roe V Wade.  But we get the point.  Dolan (on the other hand) does not.  And the idea that Dolan and Archbishop William Lori have some illuminating dove perched two feet above their head giving them any more guidance than someone in the pew is nonsense.  The Holy Spirit works among all who believe and not just a select “few.”  Church leaders are not above correction by the “flock” when they, too, go astray in their decisions.

The dinner’s one thing, Cardinal Dolan’s upcoming appearance in Tampa’s another matter entirely different. I’m curious to know if he’ll give the Grand Old Plunderers’ party a well-deserved “admonition” for its increasing infatuation with Ayn Rand’s ideas when it comes to dog-eat-dog economics. Will he also upbraid Ryan for his sudden embrace of the rape exception and sudden sucking up to Mittens.
I hope Akins is trounced in November, as he certainly deserves to be. And not just for the “legitimate rape” foolishness. Read the rest of this guy’s laundry list of desired changes, beginning with school lunch programs: http://www.nationofchange.org/todd-akin-claims-federal-school-lunch-programs-do-not-fall-within-framework-our-united-states-consti
See, what Akins, in his dumb-as-hell way of reigniting the issue with his clumsy choice of words, did was in effect expose a huge swath of Republican legislators who shared the same views and goals . . . just before the convention and Mittens’ Coronation. Everybody knows his majesty’s not one for those “oh so troubling” issues to be discussed in public (especially economic unfairness which he knows he’s a loser on) . . . But Akin’s inadvertent exposure of the GOP’s hypocrisy and its gutless willingness to stand by its principles while it expects everybody else to “trust” them and go along with their ideas, even though so many of them cut directly against the best economic interests of every individual taxpayer and family alike if they ‘re in the middle and lower income brackets.
I wonder if Cardinal Dolan will get to bring this up, should he desire to in the first place?

Steven Barrett

Save your pro-abortion party, lying talking points for some Democrat dumb-down web site.

@Steven Barrett:  As for Akin, that’s an interesting comment you made.  If Catholic Claire McCaskill his liberal Democrat opponent has accepted Akin’s apology, why can’t you?  Let the election play out and allow Mizzou citizens decide.  Furthermore, if you really are as old as you say, your crankiness no doubt has kids on your block egging your house.  At Halloween, you probably close your drapes, turn out the lights and turn on the sprinklers for your lawn.

Steven Barrett,
How do school lunches fall under the framework of our constitution anyway?? I don’t think public schools do in the first place, but it seems we’re stuck with them.But free lunches?Not to mention free breakfasts & “lunch stations” in public parks in the summertime.
You can defend those programs in other ways, but I fail to see how they’re guaranteed through the Constitution.
Some of these things make me want to join up with Ron Paul…..

@Kathleen——-You have identified programs in the bloated bureaucracy of cancerous government which has grown since the implementation of Johnson’s Great Society.  More government giveaways leading to now two generations of citizens with an “entitlement” mentality.  The idiots at the Madison protests earlier this year prove this along with Obama’s socialist minions and the anarchists bussed in from the Axelrod-Gibbs-Rahm Emanuel, Daly connection in Chicago.  All these government pensions were voted for by people no longer in office or who are long since dead.  Now we are forced to pay for all this —lifetime pensions for government workers that are unrealistic and unsustainable and for the jobs for bureaucrats to run these programs.  Where is the personal integrity of men and women to work rather than “take.”  Is it the role of government to foster this thinking?  In Obama’s world, yes.  Local and State governments are broke.  Barrett wants more of the same.  We are going rapidly the way of Greece which is Obama’s plan to turn the nation towards socialism.  Socialism is Obama’s heritage having grown up for 20 years in Indonesia.  The problem for the USCCB is that their mentality is also that of socialism.  They view Catholics in the pew as an infinite cash cow of money.  Over the last many years, more and more 2nd Collections are taken at mass to the point that it is a rare Sunday when a 2nd Collection is NOT taken.  Not to be forgotten are the endless fund raising drives and diocesan captial campaigns of which they also want money.  The USCCB do not live in the real world and only squeeze local parishes to help build a legacy for some of these Bishops.  Enough.  The USCCB live a fantasy life never required by Jesus.  They don’t work, don’t have mortgages, don’t pay any bills, don’t marry and don’t know how to raise kids—yet we somehow grant them our studious attention for being “all wise and knowing.”  The times, . . . they are a changing.”  It is certainly Christian to care for those unable to care for themselves, but as for free breakfasts and lunches in school, it is more biblical for law enforcement to go after deadbeat fathers to hold them accountable to pay for school breakfasts and lunches.  Even if that means dressing them in orange jumpsuits picking up trash along the highway until they take ownership.

New Observer,
Where I live they do dress deadbeat dads in stripes to pickup trash along the roads.
I have no problem with a safety net for folks having a hard time, even though admittedly that’s a part of socialism.But I have a huge problem with that safety net becoming ever expanding to the point where it has a harmful effect on society rather than a benevolent one.
My family “qualified” for free school lunches but did not participate.If you look at the maximum income level requirements to qualify for free or reduced price lunches, it’s pretty high.At least where we’ve lived.I guarantee that few moms do not have the resources to slap 2 pieces of bread & p’nut butter together.We did & we did it with USDA surplus p’nut butter from the local food bank.Which is actually very tasty p’nut butter & so was the recipe on the container for flourless p’nut butter cookies.

@Kathleen:  We most likely agree on the matter of safety nets.  Compassion for others is a major component of living the Christian life.  I object to expanding governmental bureaucracies taking the place of God’s people helping one another.  Increasing taxes to cover such programs reduces a desire by many towards charitable giving to independent agencies and local churches.  A mentality of “Let the government do it because my taxes pay for it” may work for road repairs and flood control projects but removes compassion for those who truly need help and the less fortunate.  Government is an impersonal monolith whereas a church, church agency, Salvation Army, St. Vincent de Paul etc.,—are direct and hands on as “people helping people.”  Barrett supports the socialist state with I loathe.  I know I beat up on the Bishops a lot but not because I think they are mean—but only misguided in their promotion of many socialist programs.  They often fail to use biblical prinicples in applying truth and practice to what really brings dignity and hope to men and women.  Enabling people to a lifetime of entitlements either by government or church is repressive and wounding to the abundancy of life Christ desires for all of us.  btw, I like P&J too!  Peanut Butter is very healthy and tastes great.

To Kathleen and New Observer and everyone else on these boards who look down on people who are struggling in this economy (the poor).

Please do give thanks to Almighty God that you never, ever have to struggle trying to figure out how you’re going to feed your kids when you’re out of work due to the horrible economy. It’s so easy to sit on your high arrogant towers and judge the millions of families who are struggling just to live one day at time because they have no jobs.  Thank God for the free school breakfast and lunch programs in our public schools, otherwise many, many children would starve.  “There but for the Grace of God go YOU”.

@CeCi:  Thank you for your continuing posts of ignorance and lover of everyone in the Kennedy bloodline supporting abortion and socialism.  I lost my job in 2009 due to “the horrible economy” and have not recovered in these three years past.  I would part of the true unemployment total of likely 17% and not the 8.3% you hear on the news from Diane Sawyer.  We are those no longer on the roles or vastly under employed with no benefits.  Time for you to climb out of your ivory tower Miss CeCi and get a life.  What has your guy (Obama)—champion of abortion and gay marriage done to produce jobs in America to lift people up?  Instead, more people are dependent upon the government now than when he took office.  At some point, he owns the problem and can no longer blame Bush.  The “Grace of God” is, in fact, why I am here.  That your “many, many children would starve” is because of Obama’s policies obstructing job creation.

CeCi Castillo,
Did you actually read my post? I’ve been there & done that, by myself, with 8 kids to raise & surplus p’nut butter sandwiches every day for lunch.And I still have a low income level as we speak.Perhaps I didn’t make that clear.Sorry for the confusion.
Believe me, noone’s starving,especially with the huge food stamp enrollment going on.I’ve been on those, too.
People are having a rough time, but starvation, no.The economy’s plenty bad enough without exageration.
No one should look down on the poor but why do you assume comments made here are not made by the poor themselves? Having low income doesn’t mean low intellect or the inablilty to hold differing opinions on free lunches.We’re allowed to have a full range of ideas, just like everyone else.Thanks.

@Kathleen:  This appearing in a recent ThinkProgress.org story about Todd Akin explains it better than I could:
“ . . .  Steve Taylor, a spokesman for Congressman Akin, confirmed the above votes and said they reflect Akin’s beliefs.
“’As a principled conservative, he has always stood for limited government and for supporting authorizations that fall within the framework of our United States Constitution,” Taylor said. “Those are principles that guide him.’”
“So Akin believes that school lunch programs are unconstitutional, which probably isn’t all that surprising, since he has also believes that Medicare — and likely all federal health programs — violate the Constitution. He is, of course, wrong. The Constitution gives the United States authority to “to lay and collect taxes” and to ‘provide for the . . . general welfare of the United States.’ So Akin’s reading of the Constitution essentially boils down to a claim that guaranteeing that every American will have adequate nutrition when they are in school and health care when they retire somehow does not serve the nation’s general welfare.”
http://thinkprogress.org/justice/2012/08/20/713171/todd-akin-claims-federal-school-lunch-programs-do-not-fall-within-the-framework-of-our-united-states-constitution/
Akin is not a “principled conservative” in the true meaning of the term Taylor used to describe his boss.  Not unless, of course, the term implies that over the years, the long-respected teachings, and warnings about libertarianism, especially from Russell Kirk, who had little or no use for them in the political arena, has become yet another victim of the continual dumbing down of conservatism. It’s no longer a respected philosophical outlook; it’s become little more than a sneer, directed mostly against the poor, women, minorities, the disabled, homosexuals … anybody the far rightist bunch that’s hijacked conservatism to use as its favorite scapegoats for all they deem wrong in the country.
I’m not one of Thomas Jefferson’s biggest admirers; however, it’s not hard to deny how prescient he was in his observation that Constitutions written by one generation can easily shackle generations to come, especially if they can’t be amended. If you and New Observer feel as strongly as you do with your originalist interpretations of what’s allowable or not within the Constitution … as it was written in 1787 … would you be willing to give up your Social Security and Medicare in the future, if you’re not receiving it now? You’re entitled to it since you paid for it. (That’s what keeps it from being a welfare program, which the government really could snatch back or put a host of conditions on it you wouldn’t tolerate for a second.)  If you live in any of the states that came out of Jefferson’s Louisiana Purchase, or those taken from Mexico from the Mexican War started by us on very questionable grounds . . . are you willing to sell your house and send the proceeds to the nearest Mexican consulate or even one of the Indian nations it inherited that was originally stolen by the Spanish Empire?
Do you really want to live in a country, guided by the principles laid down by the likes of Ayn Rand, or by the Founding Fathers (who allowed for flexibility. Perhaps some advice from FDR who reminded the nation “Human kindness has never weakened the stamina or softened the fiber of a free. A nation does not have to be cruel in order to be tough.” . . . “It is an unfortunate human failing that a full pocketbook often groans more loudly than an empty stomach. “
Remember the last sentence when you hear Mitt and his followers whine about all those “attacks on success.”
Jail uniforms for the poo r; why not bring back debtors’ prisons, the poor farm. I’ve got a better suggestion: Instead of yanking this nation back to its Acts of Confederation days. . . I’ll recommend for all of you so inclined to want to root for those who don’t give a damn about most working Americans, to pick up a copy of Sen. Bernie Sanders “The Speech,” (his famous 8 hour filibuster of Dec. 2010) and “Shays Rebellion: The Making of An Agrarian Insurrection,” by David P. Szatmary, (Univ. of Massachusetts Press, Amherst, 1980.) Boy oh boy, weren’t the one percenters the masters of divide and conquer politics much like the Koch Brothers, Karl Rove, Americans for Prosperity, etc.  And if you’re brave enough, take a look at Gerry Weis’ “Ayn Rand Nation.” Anybody care to be manipulated by her admirers?

@Steven Barrett:  Yes, I am willing to yield Social Security and Medicare and make my own choices of personal insurance, investments and savings.  I do not wish a nanny state to care for me from cradle to grave.  At one time families cared for their own.  That’s more difficult now due to government programs rewarding single mothers and absent fathers.  A hand up is fine.  Lifetime handouts are not.  I fully support caring for the destitute, war veterans and lifetime support of those incapable of caring for themselves.  Certain agencies are needed.  I do not support the State Dept bringing emigrees and refugees here and going on government assitance for the rest of their lives.  I object to the bureacracy which has become government as never intended.  Cambodia outlawed the Lord’s Prayer because one’s “daily bread” came from the government and NOT from any “god.”  That’s where you’re headed, Barrett, Marxist-Socialism.  America nor freedom is rooted in this mentality.  We know you’re not Catholic (which is no crime) but you may as well join the USCCB.  I understand they are short on priestly vocations and long on availiable classrooms.  You would fit in perfectly with both the Berrigan priests—(Catholic anarchists) whom the FBI had on the 10 Most Wanted Fugitives list.  Barrett, your view only produces more people riding inside the waggon than are pulling it.  Kindly take your hands out of my pockets.

@Steven Barrett
You don’t understand that putting people out of work and then handing them welfare is immoral.  It robs the people of their dignity, it stops them from being productive, it prevents them from gaining experience that they could show for the next job and it eliminates their ability to earn a wage, give to charity or build a life.
Sucking money from the economy that would have hired a worker and produced food or goods, kills that job and produces nothing.
—-
So Obama is amazed that his free-lunch policy doesn’t work.  He thinks he is the good guy - sadly like you he has no idea how the economy works, and can’t understand why poverty is at an all time high.  Jobs create food, jobs create clothing, jobs create housing, jobs create education.  Stealing the money they would create those jobs creates nothing.

@New Observer: You must be living one horribly depressing life with the kind of stingy attitude you continually put on display for the world to see. It’s pitiable. Look, if you want to be this cheap, don’t advocate for the programs people have paid into for years just because you’ve got a big throb in your throat for the likes of Ayn Rand and her “philosophy” of objectivism.
@Rob: If you’ve got a beef with anybody putting people out of work,  take it up with Mr. Romney. If you have a beef with giving out welfare checks, take it up with Mr. McConnell and his happy bunch who never saw a subsidy (i.e., mother of all welfare programs!) for the oil tycoons and their ilk in the corn belt.
What’s the real source of this cheapness: Did either or both of you guys get turned down for food stamps at one time?
Please tell me, either of you two geniuses, or somebody else ... I don’t care what side of the coin you’re on: but why is it that when the tightest tightwads of all “fiscal deficit hawks” are so quick to say “Social Security and Medicare en-title-ments” in a sneering tone, whilst they sound almost fawning in the way they describe subsidies for huge businesses that have long outlived their usefulness. Talk about picking peoples’ pockets, Exxon sure has a way of doing that with a nozzle that works more like a damn vacuum cleaner hose than for what it’s supposed to be used for ... but people who have paid into Social Security are treated like welfare bums.
Say this over and over ... Social Security is NOT Welfare or some other idea of a handout some regulars in this paper’s blog section have a hard time getting out of their ever thickening bone mass above their necks. Wow, have the big boys got you thinking the way they want. You’re the saps and suckers they count on every damn election who’ll continually vote against their own best interests, not to mention their families?
But hey, what’s more important than ideology? Right?
If the scribblings of Rand, von Mies, von Hayek, Friedman et all are your guiding lights; what saith that about you?
Stingy as hell.

@Steven Barrett
Please go on blindly ignoring the consequence of your free-lunch policy.
Spending $2.6 trillion when you cannot raise $1.6 trillion is not generous, it is immoral. PERIOD.
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Is your house under-water, are your credit cards maxed out, have you taken your inheritance from mommy and daddy before they are gone, have you mortgaged your kids or sold them on the black market?  What is wrong with you that you cannot see spending 2x’s what you rake in is a disaster.  As to your education I have not seen any evidence that you understand the most simple of economic realities. 
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People have to work to survive, govt spending and welfare create unemployment and prevent people from working.  If no one works, no one eats.  It is not theory it is fact.

Rob, have you forgotten the two wars, Medicare D, Tarp, the GOP’s squandering of the quarter-trillion surplus Bill Clinton left behind and the GOP’s deliberate unwillingness to raise the debt ceiling so the government could pay the bill for the tab the Guardians of Plutocracy rang up during its 8 year long Happy Hour?
For your information, my house isn’t under water, nor was it in any danger of that happening, notwithstanding my family’s very modest total income. My parents died before I saw a cent of any inheritance money, and that was invested wisely to make my money work for my family. See, ideology plays no role in family budgeting, despite all the homey talking point often (over-used) by GOPers telling us our government has to tackle its budget much like the way Ma and Pa Kettle have to at their kitchen table. (Looks like the Republican household must be doing it under the influence of cheap whiskey given the bar tab they left for President Obama to pick up, never mind the mess left from the long night of fiscal debauchery on Capitol Hill and the Bush WH.
How do you know what my level of educational attainment happens to be? No matter, you don’t have to be a university trained economist to know it takes massive government spending to pay for massive works programs (of the kind we desperately need just to meet the demands of a growing economy and competition from China and Europe. Do you want to live in a third world economy? Wouldn’t you rather be a moderately wealthy person living in a wealthy nation as opposed to an extremely wealthy man living behind high walls and surrounded by body guards like the tycoons have to invest in whenever they visit their “overseas investment” colonies. (Might as well call ‘em colonies.)
Government spending provides opportunities for many more jobs in the private sector than you seem to realize or be willing to give the public sector credit for being able to pull this off. When state agencies need to buy office supplies, they either buy what they need directly from a private supply chain, or they purchase them through a specified vending company which won the bid to be the primary supplier of privately manufactured office goods. But the end result is the same. Every time an order’s placed, a computer tells the distributor, manufacturer, (whatever, whomever…) ten boxes of #2 pencils have to be replaced. Tough days for some trees, but it looks like some private lumberjacks will be making more money. So will the gas stations they buy their gas and coffee at for those long night hauls. I’m sure you get the bigger picture by now.
Let’s take another snap-shot of how government spending works to create more private sector growth and create even wider rippling effects in some congressional districts and states than others. Military and space program expenditures. The Sunbelt did mighty fine by a lot of government money pumped into key Southern/predominately GOP districts when the Sunbelt was growing fast during the 70s to early 2000’s. While the military spending hasn’t dropped off that much, and sure as hell won’t under a Romney/Ryan junta, no matter how they mangle their explanations about who’s to blame for any possible sequestration fights that could arise. But do you remember what happened to Central Florida when President Nixon pulled the plug on NASA’s final 2 or 3 moon launches (which would’ve nicely tied over the Space Coast’s economy till the Space Shuttle program was hitting full stride? In one word, a local depression. I lived in Florida at that time and despite the fact Central FL was Nixon Country, you never could have sensed it as a result of his (largely) personal decision to snip the moon shots in the budget. Why? Kennedy. It was JFK’s decision to go to the moon, right? That didn’t stop Tricky from acting like he was responsible for the moon shots when the first landings took place during his better years. But the people in that area took a serious blow which had it not been for Reedy Creek Improvement District, a government agency, Central Florida would’ve remained a very quiet Bible Belt backwater. Oh, and by the way, do you know the other and better known name of this large government entity called Reedy Creek Improvement District? Ah, why don’t you check it out by googling Scrooge McDuck.
I’ve gotta ‘fess up on this guvmint employment: I had a helluva lot of fun working their during my last summer in college.

@Steven Barrett:  If you want to find a sym"pathetic” ear (and I do mean “pathetic”) Catholic who agrees with your far leftist ideas, contact Tony Magliano —syndicated socialist-peacenik columnist and Pastoral Associate at Shrine of the Little Flower Church in Baltimore, Maryland.  No doubt you’ll be able to find what’s wrong with America going back to Republican Presidents Ulysses S. Grant and Benjamin Harrison.

“America is like a healthy body and its resistance is threefold:  its patriotism, its morality and its spiritual life.  If we can undermine these three areas, America will collapse from within.” —Joseph Stalin, murderer of 20 million Russians birthing socialism in his country.

Steven Barrett,
Truthfully, I kind of doubt that Social Security nor Medicare as we know it will be around forever.I’ve paid into it, but not really by choice.I don’t expect at this point to get it back.
Libertarianism makes some sense on a local level.It doesn’t work if taken to it’s logical end.
Safety nets like food stamps are OK if they are indeed a safety net & not a way of life.
Why do you only single out the Western portion of the USA to return to the original inhabitants? That logic would need to extend to every US state including AK and HI. After that we could demand back the crofters cottages in Scotland & Ireland that were leveled during the Highland Clearances & the Famine.In turn, return those to the Romans,Celts, Picts,etc.The Acadian’s could get back Nova Scotia.Canadian Loyalists have their US lands & property returned…. It gets pretty silly.We’d all be doing musical chairs right back to the Garden of Eden.

@Kathleen
I totally agree that giving back to the original inhabitants talk is silly, there are no original inhabitants anywhere.  There are their offspring who have shuffled around (and “inter-married”) since man first walked the earth.  North America (the theories change every few years) was inhabited only 10,000 to 15,000 years ago and it was done in waves making any original claim silly (should all but the 1st wave go back to Asia, does anyone know who’s would have to go where).  Those people, even if peaceful in comparison, wandered and conquered others.  The Irish would need to go back to where? Ireland? England? France? Germany?  And even what we might consider a homogeneous people like the Spanish are really a mix of Greeks, Roman, middle eastern (Lebanon), Morocco, and I’m sure many more people.  Since we all have 2 parents, are we to go up the tree on our mother’s side or our father’s side? I can only trace my ancestry back a few generations, where do I go? We need only apply a touch of common sense to realize that “original” is silly.
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As to the viability of Libertarianism, I’d argue that it makes most sense at the national level.  The USA was a Libertarian nation for it’s first 100 years.  Libertarianism at the national level is much better aligned with the idea of subsidiarity.
If it was just about money, I might agree with socialism, but it is not.
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We know that govt naturally tends toward totalitarian dictatorships.  Even Obama as kind and American as he is has started enforcing HIS ideas through the power of the govt.  He is forcing “choice” on all of us, he has gone around congress to implement EPA based “new energy”. He is ending coal jobs by decree. He has decided that the rich do not pay enough taxes, and he has decreed that what you own is not your, because “you did not build that”.  It is not that he is a bad guy, he believes he is MORE moral than the rest of us.  Stalin and Mao thought their way was better and necessary.  But many business owners spend half of their time, money and employees on red tape, which rarely lessens and always grows.  Red tape produces no good, no food, no shelter and no clothing.
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We seem to think that only the federal govt has the power or money to implement safety nets and yet Medicaid has been run by the states since its start.  Education was considerably better when run at the community level.  And all the money that the govt raises comes from the states. If SS is just an insurance policy, why does it have to be run by the federal govt?  Any group of competent insurance companies (competing for your business) would adjust the benefits and premiums to keep it solvent, with much less waste and corruption.
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A libertarian nation would be a more moral nation.  We currently spend $1 trillion annually on the US war machine.  We seem to think that we have a right to interfere in foreign countries and even if invited over to resolve THEIR conflict, why should a country like the US with its highest poverty rate in history be taking money from its people to spend on wars at the request of Saudi Arabia and Kuwait, two of the richest countries in the world?  Most of us think bombing the Taliban 10 years ago was a just action following 9/11, but the 10 years of war in Iraq and Afghanistan?  We were told that they would rejoice and love us when we set them free. That we would install American liberty and democracy. But we killed hundreds of thousands, we are despised, the sect wars continue, they have not taken on our respect for life or liberty.
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I want a strong DEFENSE but we could do that with 1/3 of what we are spending and we could stop the immoral practice of passing on debt, stealing from our children.  Before being born, they are already over a year’s average salary in debt for our choices.

Rob ,
Thanks for your comments.My son in law’s in Tampa now as a Ron Paul delegate.
I like Ron Paul, Romney, too.Actually, John Huntsman was my first pick but I guess few voters agreed with me.
Ron Paul was very decent & courteous in the debates, which I appreciated.
I agree with you about education.Community-led and/or parent-led is best.And the smaller the better.I was blessed to attend a one room schoolhouse years back.One teacher with Grades K-8, but just a few kids in each grade.

@Rob—I am pretty much in agreement with all you have said.  I think we citizens are far ahead our government in thinking that you cannot force people to fight for their freedom.  That’s the lunacy of John McCain who needs to retire (even though I respect his service to America as a POW).  He was never a true conservative.  Defending freedom is instinctive for Americans, but not for the world.  Hopefully,—for all future Presidents we have learned this lesson.  People we have trained and thought were on our side are now shooting our service people at record numbers.  Wasting our dollars in Iraq and Afghanistan have netted nothing including building water and power systems and other installations.  Blowing the hell out of Tora Bora was justified and as soon as we were sure no WMD’s were found in Iraq there was no reason to stay.  People of Barrett’s bent were clamoring that it was all about oil for Texas millionaires.  We know that was a total farce.  Obama’s problem is that he has compounded errors made by Bush—and Obama has to be responsible for many, many more American and allied lives being lost while enjoys the WH life playing hoops and golf.  At least Bush gave up golf as inappropriate while the miltary was in harms way.  You did notice the irony of Barrett wanting to criticize Republican Nixon for basking in celebration of the US landing on the moon even though JKF made the bold initiative to do so years earlier.  Yes, credit is due JKF.  I wonder if Barrett is willing to thus likewise willing to cede credit to Bush for all the advance work and intelligence infrastructure which produced the finding and killing of Bin Laden?  Barrett and his people fail to accept that the problem with being President is that—at some point YOU OWN THE PROBLEM to achieve solutions and improvements.  3 and 4 years later you have to show what YOU did to improve things.  Right now Axelrod-Obama-Biden are likely strategizing for how to blame Hurricane Isaac on Bush-FEMA.

@Rob:  The USCCB have a philosophic bent to always support Obama.  Obama’s view that American imperialism with British colonialism have exploited the world for personal gain.  By dragging American down, Obama wants to lift up other nations.  This is totally unAmerican thinking.  Quite naturally, when you spend your first 20 years of life living in Marxist-socialist Indonesia one’s loyalty and patriotic level for America cannot help but be compromised.  The Bishop’s, too, are divided by the socialist gospel.  When you kill the cash cow of American business and personal initiative (which produce more taxation and more charitiable giving) the USCCB will be unable to advance their socialist gospel.  It is defeatist to the human psyche to only receive handouts without ever producing what God has ordained in Genesis “by the sweat of your toil.”  The only reason Dolan and his brothers are in a lather now is because under the HHS mandate to cover abortion services and/or contraceptives is because it’s their ox which now being gored.  If the HHS mandate was not an issue, the Bishops would proudly endorse Obama since they both support socialist policies.  This dinner invitation by Dolan proves he has raised a white flag and Catholics who don’t really pay too much attention will think Dolan is OK now.  Just wait for the DNC photos showing Dolan/Obama smiling like at your typical parish ICF Chicken & Ravioli dinner.  And since the Knights of Columbus motto is to always “Stand with our clergy” no doubt the Supreme Knight in New Haven will have Obama address their annual Spaghetti and Garlic Bread dinner.

@New Observer

You said, “...think Dolan is OK now”

You mean “Obama is OK now,” right?

@New Observer
“The USCCB have a philosophic bent to always support Obama.”
I think trying to characterize the USCCB as a single personality is an over-simplification.  There are clearly those that do as you say and those who do not.  Why they allow conflicting “official” messages to go out is beyond me.
—-
I’d like the bishops to understand two things:
1) Socialism kills jobs, eliminates dignity and creates poverty
2) Taking what Christ demanded of us, and forcing other people to do it for us is immoral, stupid and illogical.

@stilbelieve:  My apology—I meant Dolan will be perceived by Catholics as less hostile toward Obama and that he is trying to work things out.  But, you’re right that Obama will be seen as “OK.” It’s all “image” and how the press will portray both of them to a wider audience.

@Rob:  My annoyance with USCCB are these usual “collective” statements they all hide behind which appear in your Sunday bulletin.  If your Bishop disagrees, we never hear about that.  I agree with your comments, though.  And despite man’s fall in the garden, the Lord planned for and created human dignity to be found in “work” and achievement.  Christianity supports blessings from hard work, diligence, perseverance and charity.  There is no human dignity forged in a lifetime of taking handouts and not doing one’s best to be everything God created us to be.  Socialism is godless system which fails to uplift human dignity.

@Gloria
Please don’t post your racist hate here.

@New Observer

“My annoyance with USCCB are these usual ‘collective’ statements they all hide behind which appear in your Sunday bulletin.  If your Bishop disagrees, we never hear about that.”

It’s called “collegiality;” another “gift” from Cardinal Bernardin.  From the favorable biography called “Cardinal Bernardin - Easing conflicts - and batting for the soul of American Catholicism:”

“The right of national conferences to exist and to reflect on cultural and moral problems would again be challenged vigorously more than a decade later.  Joseph L. Bernardin, by then the cardinal archbishop of Chicago, would be called upon to defend and preserve the very structure whose table of organization he was beginning to supervise in 1968.” (pg 52)

“The church might profit in many ways from the presence of Cardinal archbishops…who emphasized personalized apostolates that seemed to make them stand aside from and, at times, loom larger than the national conference.” (such as O’Connor) “Bernardin would be happy to endorse the good that such leaders could do.  Still, in his own vision, the church of the future that was still being born would best be nurtured through increased collegiality.  American Catholicism would thrive only as its bishops worker together, incorporating believers at every level in the ongoing dialogue of the faithful without whom the church would be an empty administrative shell.” (pg 271)

That should be “worked together.”

I think the church that was still “being born” under the “fathering” of Cardinal Bernardin with “social justice” and “collegiality,”  turned out to produce biological twins - Democrats, and non-Democrats, not too unlike Eve’s birthing of Cain and Abel.

Aug. 27th: Don’t forget that it was Cardinal Bernardin who came up with the ‘seamless garment’ argument that all issues are equally important for Cathoics, none had priority. So, the extermination of human babies in the wombs of their mothers would have as much priority as giving out food stamps ... those humans slaughtered in the wombs of their mothers would not benefit from any of Cardinal Bernardin’s programs because they would be dead!!!

@Kathleen, I’m heartened to notice your mention of the Famine. Had it ever dawned on you that many of the same objections voiced to any form of government assistance carry the same spirit of “human kindness” shown to the Irish by Her Majesty Victoria’s government. What next, will the GOP start operating soup kitchens and work houses, (put ‘em under private management, the choice of which is determined by the company owner’s campaign donation) and only allow the children of parents willing to enroll as Republicans, or their elderly parents and relatives barely getting by on what little the GOP wants to pull out from under them ... is this what it’s going to come to if Mittens and his ilk take the reins of government? It’s called “taking the soup,” a most sordid and diabolical form of official engineering used by the Protestants on the English mainland to cover their bums during the western world’s first recorded display of mass genocide base on two catagories; religion and ethnicity. There was plenty of corn available to eat and the starving Catholics would’ve gladly devoured it. But no, that good stuff was sent over to Canada to make sure Her Majesty’s RCMP horses wouldn’t go hungry for a single moment.
I’m well aware of the damage misconstrued, and deliberately misguided social programs can do. But I’m also fully aware of what diabolically planned government planning can do as well. If Romney and his “irish Catholic” turncoat VP running mate get their way, there’ll be a new version of much older and less humane European style social planning. WASP planning; only it won’t be just one ethnic group, one faith group, one anything ... it’ll be the poor, the elderly single moms, people trying to improve their chances of getting ahead through college and what those programs mean to them, the elderly living on meals/wheels, food stamps and fuel assistance.
It’s not charity at all. You can look it up in the very Preamble of our Constitution. Some people will see the word “welfalre” and automatically slip into Archie Bunker mode of “thinking.” That’s their sad and pathetic shortcoming. But their restricted way of thinking shouldn’t have to mean that the less fortunate among us suffer because too damn many people, espscially Catholics who forgot where the hell they came from (i.e. social ladder, not just their “old country” or the hard memories they carried with them.)
A lot of Irish Catholics have indeed forgotten where the hell they came from. And I’ll forcefully add, they’ve done so deliberately, particularly in the past thirty years.
When our Lord said he didn’t come into the world to add anything, in a formal sense, to the Law. But we have the Gospels containing his parables and the messages he struggled to get across to his disciples. This was particularly true when it came to human stinginess and hardness of hearts and minds towards the less fortunate. Remember the parable about the ungrateful deadbeat? How about the one about the sheep n’ goats? And when asked about the Greatest Commandment, well, I’m sure you and the rest of teh bunch, who are all so knowledgeable about the Church that you can sit back and lecture everybody else ... but like your pal Mittens, when smitten by Pres. Obama, you whine about the pinch. So did the Pharisees. Remember? It happens every day, and it comes almost every day from Mittens’ own mouth. (Putin must be praying for his election! And perhaps more to the point, the boyos in Beijing! What a wuss; but not just a wuss, but a very selective and unpatriotically cheap wuss to boot. They love him in Zurich and the Caymans, though.)
Back to our own tribe’s brand of cheapness, although it leads some of us to put more of our trust in Romney’s plea to “Trust me” than in our own Tradition and historical legacy of contributions to the government’s social safety net; i.e. Social Security? Frances Perkins put it together with a Catholic Priest, Msgr. Ryan.
Why do you think Jesus said for us to love one another as we love ourselves? Hell, I wonder if half of you even know how to love yourselves in the first place or what it means. You wouldn’t be so stingy when it comes to talking about government’s role in meeting the needs of the common good, or common weal or the common wealth ... however you want it ... because so many of the folks all hiding behind some dictum saying that charity should only be a private act. I find that excuse as credible as the old Bible Thumper polite way of getting out of an “unpleasant situation” ... “It’s obvious you’re hurting brother/sister ... I’ll pray for you.” It’d be better off to simply be told, “Sorry, I can’t help you, but best of luck and I mean it” than an empty “prayerful gesture” when you know that person saying it is trying to brush you or somebody you know and care for off.
Now, I’m not one to inquire of a woman of her age. But, Kathleen, Social Security’s NOT in any danger of going belly up. It’s the best run of all the government programs and hasn’t missed a payment yet. The only time it came close was because of that near shoot-out in Dodge City by the Potomac last summer.
Has it ever dawned on you or anybody worried about SSA’s future that the same people who orchestrated the dumping on the Post Office of 75 years worth of fiscal coverage for all postal employees benefits within a ten year span, beginning in 2005 or so, was a deliberate poison pill concocted by the very same people who wanted to privatize it out of business; oh, could that be UPS, hmmm, Fed/Ex? Likely usual suspects, eh?
The USPS was a very profitable agency, er government owned business and that’s what made it a big (ideologically-motivated target), not to mention that it’s also unionized. Oh, that’s a real no-no; especially in the minds of the green-shade “accountability experts” trolling in the Righty think tanks like Heritage, AEI, and the libertarian Cato Institute. Guess who came to the rescue of UPS/Fed-Ex and the privatizing orchestrators and anvil choir who turned to their union-busting lawyers and lobbyists trollin’ Capitol Hill, K-Street and Bush’s WH? Well, one of those lawyers was a bright young woman who just happened to strike up not only a professional working relationship, but that turned into a romance and eventual marriage with an up n’ coming so-called “Fiscal Hawk.” The latter is none other than Paul Ryan. And this gal’s firm, representing UPS ... what a wonderful coincidence ... not only enabled her to get the government to literally put an elephant-sized burden on the Constitutionally protected USPS, but she “got her man” and the couple will live happily ever after, win-lose or a voter-suppressed draw designed to let Clarence or Antonin play the final hand.
How about all those postal employees? Any in your family? Do you want to see them lose their jobs? The same squeeze job being put to the Post Office (because they don’t have either the guts or votes now) to pass an amendment to disband the Post Office, so they’ll kill it by legislative strangulation (perhaps in Grover Norquist’s bathtub) . . . just as they plan to do in SSA. And guess who’ll be playing with all or most of your retirement?
If the Crash of 08 hasn’t scared off anybody from seeing what can happen again to a generation’s retirement funds, this nation deserves a national shrink. Don’t be bogeyman’d! Tell the shysters who put the screws to the Post Office to show their all their cards concerning what they really have in store for SSA and Medicare. And remind them, it won’t hurt ‘em all that much to pay a little more on any earned income received once they reach the $250K to keep SSA going for at least another 75 years on top of the 20 or so we can COUNT ON now. Don’t let anybody kid you: they know damn well they’ll get their money back. After all, it’ll still be the vast majority of middle class folks who spend the most on day-to-day items the big high rollers on Wall Street depend on to buy the products from the companies they invest in day in and day out.

@Steven Barrett
Can you read?  Seriously you must run around all day with your fingers in your ears yelling at people.
Everyone here has read your “destroy the poor so Steven Barrett feels better” strategy.
—-
If you insist on socialism so that you feel generous you need to see a psychiatrist.
1) YOU are not doing anything to help the poor.
2) YOU are creating the poor.
3) YOU are destroying the system by which MOST of the poor climb out of poverty.
—-
The Catholic church has said over and over that socialism is evil.

@Barrett:  Can you *ever* make your point in 100 words or less?  Reading Tolstoy’s War & Peace takes less time.  By the time people finish reading everything you incoherently write no one knows what the hell your point is —except that you are an Obama supporter and hate all Republicans as greedy old white men who delight in keeping people poor.  It’s your guy and Biden who have created class warfare.  The latest example:  “Ya’ll be back in chains.”  Except for ultra angry liberals in the House like John Lewis, Barbara Lee (Berkeley, CA —where else?) and Maxine Waters, who else appreciates that kind of talk?

Aug. 27th: New Observer, don’t waste your time responding to these absurd comments. It’s obvious that Obama is sending his trolls out to all conservative websites and radio shows to spout his talking points so they don’t have to respond to the immense failure of his presidency…they are simply regurgitating lies and distortions so just let them vomit all over the place and try to ignore the smell…they’ll disappear soon enough…

Steven Barrett ,
I’m glad to see you are also a reader of history.I share some of your thoughts re. the Irish famine but the causes go back much further than Queen Victoria’s time.I’m sure you know that, too.
I’m not a purist regarding govt.
Social programs are ok up to a point but beyond that they’re damaging, I think.There’s huge waste in govt. There’s no reason we as Catholics cannot give more to charity.If we all tithed it would make a huge difference.

@stilbelieve:  Loved your post including “social justice” and “collegiality.”  I see nothing in the gospel of Jesus Christ asking us to “go along to get along.”  Jesus was indignant at plenty of people.  Bishops who have never held a job for pay one day in their life nor married and raised kids or cared for elderly parents live in a bubble.  They live in a world of endless Sunday collections and incessant funding drives never thinking about how hard middle income, lower income, single mothers and widows NOT on the government take have to work.  The business of the church has become big business just like the moneychangers in the Temple.

@florin:  That’s probably correct.  Good point.  Burnouts from the Chicago Catholic-Marxist machine produced by Axelrod & former Mayor Daly.

@New Observer: What an overflowing display of the milk of human kindness and charity towards our clergy, not to mentioned a certainly checkered sense of “loyalty” you’ve just displayed.
And I’m the “troll”?  LOL, BIG TIME ON THAT, LOL A THOUSAND TIMES OVER AND MAKE THAT NUMBER COMPOUNDED.

Kathleen, you make it easy to disagree without worrying a somebody will pop an aorta or worry that the trolls will be outside on his front yard planting Obama signs and “regurgitating” the President’s facts he mistakes for “lies” all over that yard. What, no affirmative action for “Trolls” in “conservative” sites. Heartbroken, truly heartbroken. But Kathleen, I think I know who’d be the first between him and I to “take the (govt’s) soup” when the real push comes to shove. Hmmm, what’s your favorite kind, New Observer?

Barrett:  We don’t even know they are “your” clergy.  Some are due respect while others —not so much—let alone any loyalty.  Someone teaching or promoting a false socialist gospel is not due loyalty.  Cardinal Bevilacqua and Bernard Law are not due any respect because of their failure to stand for righteousness against child abuse.  Neither did Jesus have respect and kindness for every Pharisee or Temple priest.  Barrett, after reading all of your collective condemnations of American life and Republicans, you’re the last person to lecture anyone about kindness and charity.  Good Grief Charlie Brown !!—your still complaining about Nixon and Apollo 11.

Steven Barrett ,
There’s nothing wrong with “govt. soup” if one truly needs it. I just think we can do better than that & use tax money more efficiently.

After reading through these many and varied responses to the what is seemingly a simple and honest question posed by “Catholics” about Cardinal Dolan’s invitation of president Obama.  What is impossible for non Catholics to understand, especially Protestants, is that even though we may disagree with the Cardinals (they are Bishops) actions on this or any matter concerning faith and morals and Tradition, we acknowledge, respect and support the sacred position he holds as being handed down from Christ’s institution of the Church and those he left to guide His flock - first the Apostles and afterwards those whom the Pope anoints, the Bishops to replace those who became too old, was excommunicated for rejecting the Truths of the Church - Jesus Christ, or died…  To reject the Bishops is to reject Christ.  Our outcry may seem out of place for some, however, it is how the Church has survived - with the guidance of the promised Paraclete - The Holy Spirit, down through the ages.  Now to those who accuse Catholics of hating the president.  Rest assured as a black Catholic I find that statement offensive.  If you feel that aborting millions of babies - only one of the many evils that are offensive to God - that are supported by our president and obviously his supporters, it is your free will to do so.  It is to God you must answer and objectively speaking there are only two kingdoms:  Heaven and Hell.  And, you should know that Christ says…Not only he that does these things but also those who support them… there is not place in His Kingdom (Heaven).  Well, there is only one left.  The choice is yours.  I love my black brother - mr Obama, but his works I reject and feel that we should not honor what he represents.

Sept. 3rd:  Last night I watched a documentary about Pope John Paul’s visit to Poland and how the media blocked images of over a million people coming to see and listen to their Pope. And it reminded me of our own mainstream media blocking the minority speakers at the RNC. So, we the people need to make known the truth in the political and spiritual arena. I watched and listened to Cardinal Dolan’s prayer and blessing at the end
of the convention and it was a good prayer but I felt a bit sad as I saw Speaker Boehner immediately take back the podium while Cardinal Dolan bent his head and walked quickly and quietly away into the background. Who knows how Card. Dolan will be received at the Dem. convention and how he will form his prayer to bless a Dem agenda that aggressivelypromotes the killing of unborn human babies, same sex marriage, threats against religious freedom…let us pray that Cardinal Dolan uses this opportunity as our beloved Pope John Paul did when he faced the Communist leaders in Poland and courageously and forcefully spoke truth to power…as did Mother Teresa to the United Nations Assembly.  Let us pray for this and for Cardinal Dolan and for our Country and our Church.

@Fred Minor who wrote:  [“actions on this or any matter concerning faith and morals and Tradition, we acknowledge, respect and support the sacred position he holds as being handed down from Christ’s institution of the Church and those he left to guide His flock - first the Apostles and afterwards those whom the Pope anoints, the Bishops to replace those who became too old, was excommunicated for rejecting the Truths of the Church - Jesus Christ, or died…  To reject the Bishops is to reject Christ.”]    In what universe do you live, Fred?  Please explain how inviting Obama has any relevance to a bishop’s role of instructing on FAITH and MORALS?  This is a personal decision by Dolan.  We are not obligated to agree with Dolan’s personal decisions.  And you are way off the radar in your statement that to reject the Bishops is to reject Christ.  I REJECT Cardinal Law of Boston and his obstruction of Justice by hiding child abusing priests.  I REJECT Archbishop Bevilacqua of Philadelphia for the same reason.  Fred, how you equate such rejection to be equal to a rejection of Christ is insanity.

Thanks for your comments “New Observer”.  We both reject the same things. However, If you are Catholic or not I suggest you go back and read the Early Church fathers and you will find these words spoken time and time again and I feel quite comfortable with this as it is not my opinion.  When I speak I speak “Objectively” as I do not know the heart of man but I do have the ability to make sane judgment about an act.  And it is the act in which I am referring to.  An excellent example is King David’s evil act in the Old Testament perputrated out of Lust.  Yet, once confronted with his evil he made a statement that I use often enough:  What is evil in Your eyes, I have done.  Be merciful Oh Lord….  We know that Jesus Our Lord and Savior is from the linage of David.  It shows us the power of repentance.  No, I stick to my statement: Honor and respect is due our Bishops, yet we must reject any and all evil acts, no matter the perputrator..bishops, priest and even our Pope.  No one is free to go against the will of God.  We must join with Florin above in prayer for those who have been ordained to shepherd God’s people, like King David they are sinners too.