The times when my teens are not at Mass with me are when they a) have an activity that conflicts with regular family Mass time & therefore get themselves to Mass alone the evening before or day of at early o’clock or b) are attending something like a teen morning of recollection which includes Mass.  Just sayin’...

Lots of important issues here including:

At what sort of age do we acquire the right to freedom of religion?

I would suggest that this is when someone has reached the age of reason(confession) AND can be left safely at home for the required time.

If I tried to pull the “freedom of religion” card on my mom, I might wake up in a hospital the next week. :)

I haven’t noticed this in our parish.  What I have noticed is teens attending in groups.  You’ll often see teens at a Vigil Mass before (I’m assuming) they go out or at an early Sunday Mass before (I’m assuming) the host family drops them off at a house.
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On the whole, I see parents being a lot more involved and concerned in their kids lives than parents of previous generations, or at least a lot more involved than my parents ever were.    I have all my children’s logins and passwords to everything.    Cell phones are left on the kitchen counter at bedtime so we can check them if we have a mind to (we generally don’t, but we have and we could).    Most families we know have similar policies.    Back when I was a little kid you came inside when the porchlight came on and as you got older so long as you got in before midnight on weekends, mom and dad didn’t ask too many questions.  Q:  Where’d you go?  A:  To the CYO dance at OLP.  What you didn’t tell them was that you ditched the dance after a half hour because Jenny’s older brother bought you a case of Boonsfarm and you all went to the park and drank it.
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Today, the kids can’t do that.  First, they’re locked in the dances unless a parent picks them up AND you can actually see where the kids are on their cell phones (or facebook mobile).  It’s much more difficult to hide things from parents than it used to be.  My husband and I are not naive.  We’re sure our kids are hiding things from us - separating from parents is a part of growing up.  But I feel a lot more secure than my parents must have.

At my Grandmothers house it didn’t matter if you were 15, 35, or 55 - you stayed at her house over a weekend - you went to Church.  You didn’t want to go to Church you could get a hotel room.  That’s the rule in my house too.  My “former” Catholic friends from high school come for a visit - they go to Mass.  My job is to get them to Jesus - I let Him worry about what to do with them at Mass.

Relgious Freedom? Really?

Well Steve—one thing Church teaches them is to be civil and not bitter foolish trolls.  Maybe you should try it.

This has been going on since I was a teen over 20 yrs ago…I remember seeing all my friends parents at mass, but never my friends.  I think part of it had to do with the lousy faith formation that I grew up with in the 80’s and 90’s in which parents divorced themselves from the responsibility and handed it over to CCDC.

I’ve always tried to see this issue from the reality that I feed my kids every single day, multiple times in a day so why don’t I work hard to insure they get to be fed by Christ once a week?
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And that whole ‘religious freedom’ argument holds little weight here - what about the right to life, liberty and pursuit of happiness?  As we all know - for most kids that would have them sleeping all hours of the day, watching videos on-line and living with their tech in their hands 24/7.  Instead we strive to insure our kids are well-formed, educated and all around great kids.  In my house that has happened by helping them the importance of their faith and attending Mass.  So far so good, as my three adult children still attend freely and happily. 
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As a father, I can tell you it goes without question my teens and my early 20’s who live in home will go to Mass.  “As for me and my house we will serve the Lord.” 

Faith formation begins at home with prayer, humility, and charity.  If it is woven in our lives the children will follow the parents.  Dads, where the father goes the family goes.

In my house, the only reason you could miss church is because you were sick. And if you were sick, that meant that you couldn’t go anywhere else for the rest of the day.

I figured better to give up an hour on Sunday morning than the entire day. Which probably isn’t a good way to view church.

@steve b - wow!  What’s with the rude language??? 
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@Ha!  -  We not only deny my children religious freedom, we deny them all kinds of freedoms in our home.  And we’re proud of it.  Among their denied freedoms:  speech, guns, and assembly.  And even though it’s not in the constitution, I’ll spell out that they don’t have the right to privacy either.  We also subject them to searches and seizures.  There’ll be no trials before their peers.  Oh yeah, the list goes on and on.  When they’re grown up and paying their own way, they can live the way want.  Right now, our house, our rules.

oops.  MY children should read OUR children.  One thing not denied in our home is my husband’s paternity.  ;)

I only have a four month old so I can’t speak from a parent’s perspective yet, but I can speak from a child’s perspective on this.  When I was a rebellious teenager, my father made me go to church.  He literally dragged me into the car sometimes.  I hated it.  I hated him for a while.  But now, as an adult, I can only thank him for being so persistent with me.  Though everyone has to encounter God for himself, my father’s behavior demonstrated how important Mass is and how much he cared about me.  Surrender on his part would have taught me nothing.

Eileen: “We not only deny my children religious freedom, we deny them all kinds of freedoms in our home.  And we’re proud of it.  Among their denied freedoms:  speech, guns, and assembly.  And even though it’s not in the constitution, I’ll spell out that they don’t have the right to privacy either.  We also subject them to searches and seizures.  There’ll be no trials before their peers.  Oh yeah, the list goes on and on.  When they’re grown up and paying their own way, they can live the way want.  Right now, our house, our rules.”
Yes! That’s what I’m talkin’ about!Seriously, the teen years are pretty brutal especially if you haven’t instilled the best of habits in all things. We did o.k. in some areas but I should have been tougher. So now that they are teens, I am correcting some behaviors. As teens they naturally are pulling away. That is the hard part. It is emotionally very, very hard for me and it makes being tough harder because the last thing I want is more conflict. But it also has kind of scared me that they need some work before they are letloose on the world. One thing we did right was that Mass is not an option. God is not an option. He is a reality so “As for me and my house we will serve the Lord.” It helps that as the kids have gotten older, we have prayed more as a family (hit or miss sometimes, but we have been trying for consistency for several years) and been blessed with devout friends from whom we have learned much about the faith. The reasons parents stop insisting on Mass are probably varied: they caved out of fear or weakness, misguided notions of “freedom” and independence, lack of family prayer time,etc. What we have seen is that in our very orthodox/traditional parish there are a lot of teens. Teens go to Mass with Mom, Dad and siblings. It doesn’t just happen, it isn’t luck. It is hard work inspired and guided by the Holy Spirit.
I don’t know that comparisons to earlier times helps at all. Parents today may be more “involved” but involved in what? Are they involved in anything that is bringing kids closer to God? A lot of parental involvement is focused on the wrong things.
There is no magic bullet, no easy way out. The teen years are a cross in many ways. Which means they are also a blessing. And no cross, no crown.
Sorry if this is rambling.

My brother-in-law calls it “being a grown up” when his son skips Mass.  My kids call it “being a jerk” when their cousin isn’t there.  Peer pressure and good strong debating skills brought him back.

Chris,
My daddy was a bit like your’s.I didn’t appreciate it much at the time but I do now.

I agree with your Matt.  I was one of those parents who didn’t want to make my kids angry, wanted to be a friend - too many to list.  I was spiritually lost then myself so how could I give a good example.  I trusted the CCD class to take teach my children and today my son doesn’t attend Mass (lives like a secularist pagan) and my daughter attends a non-denominational church because she wants to learn the Bible and claims the Catholic church never taught it to her.  Like St. Monica, all I can do is pray for my children.  My son does allow me to take my grandson to his religion class and I teach my grandson as much as I can but it’s so difficult because the rest of the week he’s with parents that never mention God.  I see this as my cross.  I admire all of you who are doing your duty as good Catholic parents.

Amen.  In my uncle’s house you were required to attend Mass on Sunday if you were staying at his house.  He didn’t care if you were a 21 year old college student who didn’t get home until 2a the night before.  If you were sleeping at his house you attended Mass.  And, all 5 of his middle aged children are practicing Catholics today.  THis idea that kids/teens should decided things for them self is rubbish.  In our former liberal parish the pastor’s way of “improving” the much complained about Confirmation program was to begin by surveying the children in grades 6-10 about what kind of Confirmation program they wanted.  Huh?  What do they know about what they need to learn the Faith?  I constantly hear parents complain about how jr’s too much on the cell phone, facebook, instagram etc.  but for some reason they feel powerless to confiscate the phone, close the account etc.  Craziness.

TG—prayers coming your way—have heart and ask Our Lady for help.  Our Lady of Guadalupe loves those that try to avoid her Son.

Freedom requires responsibility, otherwise it is simply license (or to borrow an idea from Cecil B. DeMille, There can be no freedom without law).  Reaching the age of reason does not mean a child is able to handle adult responsibility.  Until they shoulder all the responsibilities of adulthood (i.e., they no longer live under my roof), they will live by the rules my wife and I establish; first among them will be mass and family prayers.

Well, one family is only an anecdote, not an argument. But for what it’s worth, back in the sixties my parents forced me and my teenage sisters, under protest, to attend mass every Sunday while we lived at home. Sitting there for an hour gave me plenty of time to think about all the reasons I was gradually coming to disbelieve Catholic doctrine. We also attended Catholic schools where we got an excellent education and the heavy dose of religious teaching that was customary in Catholic schools in the fifties and sixties.

I am an atheist, one sister is an agnostic, and the other is a Lutheran. So far our young adult children are following in our footsteps, but voluntarily, not under pressure.

It is easy to ridicule the concept of freedom of religion for teenagers, but the truth is, although you can compel their bodies, you can’t stop them from enjoying freedom of religion in their hearts and minds.

At best, I’d say that forcing teenagers into outward compliance to religion has unpredictable results.

It may be that some of the missing teenagers are going to Mass at a different time. Anyway, I think that as long as you are providing for your child they need to obey the rules of your house, including going to Mass, whether they’re 7 or 17. (I’m 17 myself, btw.)

cowalker,
Maybe, but my guess is that it may depend on other issues going on in the individual family as well.

Question for those of you who complained to your parents about Mass attendance as teens - How Catholic were your homes really?  I cannot imagine my children refusing to our faces to attend Mass.  My siblings and I certainly never refused as teens though we’d often tell our parents we were going off to Sunday Mass and then go hang out at the local White Castle.    I agree with you cowalker that you can’t force a child’s mind into line.    We fully expect our children to question the Faith, in fact, we hope they do.  It is only when they can accept the Faith with their own free wills and minds that they can come to love it.  However, part of their coming home to the Faith is having it be a bedrock of their family.  And one of the things that means is Mass on Sundays and Holy Days.

I forgot to add that of my Mass skipping siblings, only one is lukewarm about the Faith.  The rest of us - 6 in all - are active Catholics.

Matt,
Thanks for writing this article I have four teenagers at the moment, 2 girls and 2 boys. It’s the girls that give me trouble. They have been taken in somewhat by the belief that the Church is wrong about marriage, specifically “gay marriage”. We don’t hear any worthwhile homilies on this or any other subject. Our parish just merged with another, and still no good explainations from the pulpit. I am seriously thinking about switching parishes.
Please let me know your thoughts on this. I really believe that they (4) need to hear what and WHY the Church Teaches from someone other than my wife and I…they are just not hearing it. The oldest girl told me so. “We never hear anything other than the same old stuff..”
Thanks.

I guess one point of view is that I would rather my children not attend mass than attend mass with an indifferent or disrespectful attitude. In my parish, maybe less than 10% even kneel before entering pews, allow others who are in church to have silent prayer, etc. I am probably wrong with the following observation but attending the Life Teen mass reminds me of the words in the book of Revelation, “the abomination of desolation”. How can Jesus in the Eucharist be so ALONE in a church FULL OF PEOPLE? We dumb down teachings for teens and they know it! They want to be challenged, they want real answers to their questions and when they see this lukewarm version of Catholicism, it is not very appealing. They want to live and stand for something important, but when we as parents and teachers of the faith have nothing to give because we don’t take the time to study, then give, we are responsible for their lack of faith. We dropped the ball, it’s time to pick it up!

Eileen posted on Monday, Feb 25, 2013 12:35 PM (EST):
“Question for those of you who complained to your parents about Mass attendance as teens - How Catholic were your homes really?”

Our home was loving, supportive and typically Catholic for the time. My parents were quite concerned with obeying Church doctrines, but did not seem to have thoughts about developing personal “relationships” with Jesus or God.  There was an Irish Catholic tradition on both sides which I now believe played an extremely important part in their emotional attachment to Catholicism.

My sisters and I remained close to our parents in spite of religious differences. We are still close to our 92-year-old father, who to this day is bewildered about why the guarantees of Catholic school and compelled attendance at church didn’t produce practicing Catholics.

Jessie M posted on Monday, Feb 25, 2013 12:54 PM (EST):
“I guess one point of view is that I would rather my children not attend mass than attend mass with an indifferent or disrespectful attitude.”

I think it is worthwhile to consider Jessie M’s comment. What is the ultimate effect of forcing a teenager to attend a religious service and to sit captive while thinking the event is ridiculous? I’m sure the experience differs from teenager to teenager. And to be honest, I’m certain I would have ended up where I am whether I was forced to attend mass or not. The interesting effect of experiencing all that religion is that I ended up much better prepared to argue my atheism than most Catholics are to argue their faith. My kids don’t see why anybody cares to argue about any of it. To them, religion is obviously irrelevant—case closed.

The “age of reason” means that a child has come to an age the difference between right and wrong.  A young child of three or four can not truly understand what is “wrong” with their actions, only that they will get in trouble if they do things marked “wrong”.  A seven-year-old has a better understanding of how their actions effect others.  Just because a child reaches the “age of reason” does not mean that he/she is capable of using good reasoning skills.

And my understanding is that if a child over the age of reason and still a dependent of his or her parents does not attend Mass on Sundays and Holy Days of Obligation…then that sin is on the parent.  So, parents who do not require their teens to go to Mass are committing a sin; I think it’s also a mortal one (since skipping Mass is a mortal sin).

When people try to give me the “religious freedom” bit about my kids I explain that as long as they are under my care God is holding ME accountable for their soul.  When they grow up and move out on their own, then it will be between them and God and they will have to decide totally for themselves.

this thread makes me reflect on peter’s response in John 6 to Jesus’ question to His apostles asking them whether they too would reject Him.  peter responded, to whom would we go, you have the words of eternal life.

that is always an appropriate response to those who ridicule or reject our catholic faith.

ask those who ridicule and reject who it is that they place their faith in if it is not He who loved them so much that He freely offered His life on the Cross for their salvation and then backed it up by defeating death?

it raises so much curiosity in me when i hear of people who reject Christ.  i always wonder in whom do they place their trust?  i wonder how it is that they can believe that they know enough to supplant the Crucifixion and Resurrection?  who do they believe in, marx, confucius, the buddha, no one?  are they living a life in despair and do not even realize it?

this thread makes me reflect on peter’s response in John 6 to Jesus’ question to His apostles asking them whether they too would reject Him.  peter responded, to whom would we go, you have the words of eternal life.  that is always an appropriate response to those who ridicule or reject our catholic faith.  ask those who ridicule and reject who it is that they place their faith in if it is not He who loved them so much that He freely offered His life on the Cross for their salvation and then backed it up by defeating death?  it raises so much curiosity in me when i hear of people who reject Christ.  i always wonder in whom do they place their trust?  i wonder how it is that they can believe that they know enough to supplant the Crucifixion and Resurrection?  who do they believe in, marx, confucius, the buddha, no one?  are they living a life in despair and do not even realize it?

This is fascinating. I agree that parents have every right and responsibility to set the rules of the house.
But, here’s my question: What, precisely, is the actual point of forcing kids to mass? The reason they don’t want to go to Mass in the first place is because it holds no meaning for them.
Let me repeat that: Mass holds no meaning for them.
Anyone out there think that maybe that’s a problem in need of fixing?
What’s distressing about the tone of the blog post and the comments is that almost all of the focus is on what parents should force their kids to do, instead of focusing on the bigger problem, which is that the mass is as meaningful to them when they skip it as it when they attend.
Anyone think we ought to be dealing with THAT problem?

“Jon”, there is a problem-no one explains the mass to kids, because we, as paretns, were poorly catechized.  A miracle happens every time mass is said, and yet, we are all in a fog of misunderstanding and mis-education. We don’t come to mass to be entertained, we come to be nourished, fortified, and even electrified by the Source and Summit-the Eucharist.
We Just came home from Colombia, where we adopted a fifteen year old girl.  We were told there repeatedly that the teens aren’t interested in the faith, and you just cant push it.  So, in a country that is “85% Catholic”  the churches are filled with very devout people-all over the age of 55 (it’s reasonable to assume that their parents “forced” them to go to mass when they were young).
So, new daughter, who has had her first three sacraments, insists that mass is boring and she “doesn’t like the taste” of the Eucharist.  She was stunned to hear that our 16 year old loves her faith and enjoys mass.  Oh-and so, she is now “christian, not Catholic” (mmmm, no), because Catholics “focus on the sad stuff”.  “Bad energy”, what what. 
It’s okay, we tell her, you’re still going to mass with us.  Sometimes even on weekdays.  And the stations, too.  And catechism classes.  And I am never going to stop praying for you, my daughter, that you ( and your new sibling who lost faith at his “Catholic” college) will awaken one day during mass, to the beauty of the faith that was given to Peter, and to you.  Because, just like I love all nine of your siblings, I love you.
And after all, the Holy Spirit can speak to you more eloquently than I.

When I was growing up, missing Mass was not an option. If you didn’t go to Mass, you didn’t do anything or go anywhere that day.  The only time we didn’t go to Mass was when we were sick; and if you were too sick to go to Masss, then you were too sick to (insert your favorite activity here).  It worked for me; and it’s working now for my kids who are not teenagers yet; but are 11 and 12.  We attend Mass every Sunday and Holy Day unless one of us is too ill to go.  It’s second nature in our house to go to Mass, and there are never any arguements about it.

Now, to those who have problems with “Mass having no meaning for them”. As I was taught, Mass is first and foremost our chance to worship the God who loves us and gives us everything.  We’re not supposed to be looking to “get something” out of Mass - instead were supposed to be occupied with giving our love, devotion and time TO God.  The fact that you receive the Body, Blood, Soul and Divinity of your Creator so that you can have eternal life is just icing on the cake.

I am also fascinated by the simplistic tone of this article.  This is the same tired argument from 20 years ago - “parents want to be their childrens friend”  Some do.  But many things have changed - and if your teenagers are like mine - they question.  They are skeptics.  They want answers.  Is our Church providing answers?  What message is our Church bringing to our children?  Or has our Church become just as “secular” as all of our society?

Mr. Archbold, the whole thing is excellent, but that last paragraph especially is gold.  It’s bad enough when kids care way too much about what everyone else thinks of them.  It doesn’t help when they can sense the same turmoil and fear in their parents.

Michael McCormick, spot on.  Not only does the Church teach them not to be foolish, bitter trolls, but she does so in good part because her Sacraments *enable* them not to be foolish, bitter trolls.  For one, Church teaching and the Sacraments enable them not to be afraid while confronting their own fears and spiritually and intellectually parsing a lot of… stuff.

TG, prayers coming your way:  I feel for what you’re saying, coming at it as the child of a mother who followed St. Monica’s example and never stopped praying for me when I left both home and the Church.  I came home (not in a flash, but slowly and surely), in part because something opened my eyes and heart to how my mother was growing—so maybe this also speaks to Mr. Archbold’s point about what growing up actually means.  The stronger her faith grew, the calmer she became, and I could sense that the conversations we were having on religious faith were deep ones.  She came at it listening and appreciating what I had to say instead of cutting me off or shutting me down as I limped my way back to the Church.  So keep growing in your own faith.  Bit by bit, your kids will notice.  When you pray, ask the Blessed Mother to enable them to open the eyes and ears of their hearts, so that they’ll come to know Christ, and know that He wants to engage with them.  Also, something that both Simcha Fisher and Jennifer Fulwiler have pointed out struck home for me when they did:  never underestimate the simple power of the Sacraments.  God bless you.

MB—that’s beautiful what you are doing. Good for you and your family.
You’re right about the poor religious training. Almost everything I know about the catechism I’ve learned by my own volition, mostly doing online research, in the last year or so. I spent years in CCD and was only dimly aware that they were even SUPPOSED to teach us about the faith. (They certainly never tried.)

LarryW, I appreciate what you;re saying but if mass “is first and foremost our chance to worship the God who loves us,” then I would point out that your chances to worship are, essentially, limitless. You don’t need mass to worship God. You can do so right now on Monday afternoon wherever you happen to be. So we’re right back to the original problem, it seems. It’s not clear to me why you can’t be “occupied with giving ... love, devotion and time TO God,” every day of your life, without having any particular religious tie and without ever setting foot in mass.

I think all of the points are valid.  However, it may not be as dire as you might think.  When I was a teenager, we stopped going to mass with our families and started going to mass with our friends, usually the Sunday evening mass.  I’ve always been a bit of a mass hopper, and I’ve noticed this same trend pretty much everywhere I go.  So, it might not be that they aren’t going to mass anymore, but that they just aren’t going with mom and dad.

Whether that is a good thing itself is another question.

The point about being a teenager (13-18/19) years is that it is a TRANSITION from childhood rights and responsibilities to adult ones. It is gradual with grey areas not a sudden on/off switch.

I wonder whether a strict “my house - my rules” risks young adults cutting loose and running wild if the only constraints they learned were external ones. More important than strictness or laxity, is love, consistency, clarity and good example.

I have also heard many ‘lapsed’ Catholics complain about how they were dragged to mass and punished for not wanting to attend. Being forced in religion probably has the opposite effect most of the time.

I am a bit shocked by the proud disregard for freedom of religion by some who I presume to be Americans. I wonder how this helps to form the consciences of teenagers when the external control of their parents is removed at say 18 or whenever they leave home.

I am also curious how those who deny freedom of religion to their teenagers would respond to the allegation of inconsistency/hypocrisy by that teenager if that parent eg rails against the HHS mandate as an affront to freedom of religion.

When I was a teenager I thought and felt deeply about questions of conscience and religion. I still cherish my freedom of religion, and I want everyone who is old enough to understand the questions to be able to enjoy this freedom and responsibility.

If we’re looking at the Sunday Obligation as a 60 minute event, then perhaps that explains why our teenagers are so disengaged. I find my teenagers can tolerate and even benefit from Sunday Mass when it is couched within some special family time. Quite often, for us, that means food; so, Mass for us is usually followed by a special meal of some kind.

When I was a kid, Sunday Mass was often followed by a trip to the Donut shop, where “elephant ear” style dough was finished with cinnamon, powder and granular sugar. Our biggest family events - where all eleven of us crowded around the table - occurred on Sundays.

Is this bribery with food?  Perhaps.  But for us it is often - not always (unfortunately) - a joyful family event.

I don’t let my teenagers argue with me about Sunday Mass.  They know it is a “given” and resistance is futile.  I find that when you are “undecided” about the Sunday obligation, your kids will lobby hard against it. But, if it is the normal, expected pattern - not so much.

But, I believe it should be a joyful, lighthearted, family event.

The other part of this is finding a Mass which does not insult the intelligence and, yes, the taste of a reasonable person.  For example, my Pastor is a big “get the teenagers to Church guy” but his homilies are often long and self-indulgent.  The music minister at the 10:30 Mass believes he is the next Josh Grodin (cds for sale in the lobby); he is not. The vocalist at the Noon Mass sings like every Mass is a funeral and every song is a dirge. 

I’m not big on Parish shopping, but I’ve personally had enough, and the kids have too.  So, we’ve settled on a neighboring parish where the liturgy is restrained and dignified.  Much happier dad and much happier family ..

Dear Leo, I am sorry, but you’re being illogical.  Teenagers have many restrictions commensurate with their age.  They cannot drive until a certain age, drink, vote, register for selective service, etc.  Furthermore, they pay little to no taxes, and when they do (and, can elect as well) they will indeed make such decisions.
As Catholics, we believe that their are graces associated with the sacraments, and that we need the fortification of the Eucharist and the gifts of the Holy Spirit to live well.  The church has much to say about the virtues, and the inherent that comes from striving for virtue, rather than becoming slaves to our weaknesses/addictions/propensity to overindulge:
“To live well is nothing other than to love God with all one’s heart, with all one’s soul and with all one’s efforts; from this it comes about that love is kept whole and uncorrupted (through temperance). No misfortune can disturb it (and this is fortitude). It obeys only [God] (and this is justice), and is careful in discerning things, so as not to be surprised by deceit or trickery (and this is prudence).75”

I am obligated, as a parent, to offer my children the richness and beauty, a direction and grace, that can only come from the sacraments, because I know with my whole heart that it’s true…and that, in those times that I myself rejected the faith,I was the big loser.

i can’t save my kids from making the own mistakes, nor do I want to…but I have a duty to offer the benefit of my experience (my own mistakes) as well as the beauty of a shared faith.

Dear MB,

I agree with all of your points except the last one. I do want to “save” my children from their mistakes because I want them to see the wisdom in avoiding others pitfalls. I pray my children obtain wisdom, something that isn’t taught in schools or society in general.

Someone needs to explain the repeated use of “freedom of religion” as they seem to think it applies to a parent child relationship, as if it is in ANY way equivalent to the relationship between a government and its people. Maybe the person has an agenda and seeks more powerful terminology? I don’t know, but it just reads silly. It’s as if the person is raising kids, if they have any, by consensus rather than a parent leading, guiding and teaching their children as the primary in every respect.

It makes sense to me that there are many factors and not just one associated with proper catechesis and faith development. But giving away parental responsibilities to a teenager? Yikes!
I think of the confusion, the lack of knowledge and experience with which I made decisions with when I was a teenager…turning over that process seems somewhere between naive and ignorant.

Whenever anyone asks me why I no longer share the Church’s beliefs My first response is always “Because I read the Bible and went to Church every week.”

You live in an age where everything said on the pulpit can easily be fact checked with a smartphone, and you wonder why young people are leaving the faith? I have a lot of positives to say about my Catholic upbringing, but the attitude of forcing it on your kids is the absolute wrong way to deal with it, especially in the Internet age where they can connect to anyone around the world and find out so much Religious information that you had no access to at the same age.

There is a reason there are so few people under 30 in the pews, and I can’t believe some of you don’t understand this cultural shift. Once you do, I’m fairly positive both you and your children will be happier and way less stressful.

Remember

MB posted on Monday, Feb 25, 2013 7:58 PM (EST):
“Teenagers have many restrictions commensurate with their age.  They cannot drive until a certain age, drink, vote, register for selective service, etc.”

The difference between these restrictions and forcing mass attendance is that there are good reasons for the restrictions whether the teenagers’ attitude toward them is accepting or rejecting. When they reach the legal age, and can demonstrate skill, they can drive, if Mom and Dad help them get the use of a car. Whether or not they choose to drive at sixteen is unlikely to be influenced by whether they hated not being allowed to drive at fifteen, or whether they enthusiastically agreed that they were not ready yet.

However their decision on whether or not to attend mass when they go away to college may well be influenced by whether or not they were forced to go to mass in high school. Will they be exulting in the freedom to act on their own inclination to break away from religious constraints? Is mass a hated memory or a suddenly desirable option?

The problem is very simple.  Christianity is not only on Sundays.  Christianity begins in the home, if other things are more important then obviously the kids receive that.  They are not stupid.  They help us to see in many ways our own level of faith.

Admittedly this is an area where our family struggles. We are Catholic converts in a very protestant family. Both our teens refused confirmation on very legitimate grounds - serious doubts and inablitly to confess the real presence of our Lord in the Eucharist - and after much prayer and discussion. My Husband and I faithfully attend Mass and Adoration while at the same time each Sunday taking my teens to an evangelical church for their teen services and Bible Study. Teen ministry in our parish is not something they relate to well. Recently our daughter has been showing growing dissatisfaction with the “simplistic” answers of her protestant friends to her theologic questions and it has been great grounds for discussion on the beauty and Truth of Catholicism. For us we are viewing their time in the protestant church as sort of their “elementary school of faith” and Catholicism as their college of faith which they will eventually come to understand and love as much as we do.

Tony S ,
The internet provides info, not real relationships or real Faith.
It’s a shallow source for anything more than facts, & even those are often incorrect.

Just a thought, most states require teens to attend school until at least 16. Some states have compulsory education laws until 18 years of age.
I’m not sure why religious education/church attendance should be seen so differently just because it’s parent, not state enforced.
That said, after age 16 or so, it’s pretty difficult to “force” older teens to attend Mass.And it can be counterproductive.

Just one observation: I have noticed that religion in general, and for my experience Catholicism in particular, is the one subject that an non-believing adult thinks he knows all about from knowledge obtained by age 13.  Any other subject: science, literature, mathematics, adults will usually concede that there is an understanding that was not available to them as 8th-graders.  But religion:  “No way, I figured out it was all BS by high school and then I was done.”  That was and is the experience with my older brothers and most of my cousins. 
That is why parents need to persist as long as they can with imparting real knowledge of the faith.  And when your kids have questions and you don’t know the answers, or they won’t hear it from you (your only the parents, what do you know)—get solid answers from credible sources.  There is an adult understanding of the faith, it does not end when your kids hit High School. I assume, in fact, that this is reason most diocese have extended the age for Confirmation until 16 or 17.
(At least I hope this works: mine’s entering Middle School now!)

+1000 to this article. 

Parents, do your job.

There is only talk here about educating kids in the faith.  The point is that the parents have to live the faith so that the children may see that the resurrection isn’t something 2000 years ago.  If sports is more important,  music, friends, anything then obviously the children pick up on that.  I have been helped immensely by the neocatechumenal way in regards to how I live my life.

I agree Derek. When we as parents fail to live the gospel as best as we can, all of the time, then we send messages to our children. We have to lead by example, and for the last 50 years or so, we have failed. When the world and it’s ways are pitted against a life of Christianity, and kids have been exposed to both, the tipping point is always how well the parents have or have not lived the gospel. Are we one hour catholics, or do we perform works as well as place a priority on PRAYER. I think in general that if a family has an active prayer life, then the kids are less likely to rebel against the faith.

Cathy ,
Good comments, though there’s an alternate school of thought that kids may need the sacramental strength of Confirmation at an earlier age.Our previous diocese began Confirmation classes in 7th grade, Confirmation was received in 8th Grade.

Well, cowalker, “, you can’t stop them from enjoying freedom of religion in their hearts and minds.” This so true. When they listen and hear in the Liturgy and in the Gospel that every person ever created and redeemed by Our Lord is prayed for, mentioned and acknowledged as a sister and brother and child of God. Atheists in particular are prayed for on Holy Saturday. Every Saint in heaven and on earth is mentioned and has a feast day. Every cause, every joy and every sorrow is acclaimed, the living and the dead, I have to ask: “Why are your children and yourself ashamed to go before God and petition God for Divine Providence, for our unalienable rights, for FREEDOM itself. WHY?
Usually, I ask atheists if they are not going to pray for themselves, would they kindly please pray for me. Some people have no need for prayer and other persons have a great need for prayer.
I experienced great consolation when, facing my own death, I realized that I would always be remembered at the altar of God, forever and forever. Sometimes people reject their immortal souls to avoid the condition of death and dying. But the truth is that there is an eternity and going there is better when our souls are in the hands of God.
If one truly cares about freedom, than too, one must acknowledge that our freedoms are endowed by our Creator as unalienable. Only an infinite God can endow unalienable rights. The rights the state gives, the state can take away. Thomas Jefferson. When an atheist denies the Endower of unalienable rights, the atheist denies all unalienable rights and forfeits his citizenship or at least his unalienable rights. You cannot have it both ways. Cowalker, if you want freedom for your children, then you must tell them about the Creator and Endower of unalienable rights.

Kathleen,
I know most of us received Confirmation by 8th grade—myself included.  And I don’t have a real opinion about the value of receiving the grace earlier.  What I do know is I and my brothers were allowed to stop going to CCD after 8th grade (and I did) because the impression was that was end of significant faith formation.  Now, of course, that is not true—and I think most dioceses have pushed out Confirmation as a means of getting to better faith formation.

Cathy,
Yeah, I personally like the idea of Confirmation being received earlier but it’s true that kids quit going to any type of CCD after that.
Our former parish had a highschool group that met the same evenings as CCD & pretty much the only times kids would show up was when there was a ski trip or something planned. & they had to attend to qualify.After that they’d skip the rest of the year.

@70s Guy I think we use to go to the same church!  ha ha
I am a DRE for a decent size church.  MANY parents darken my door with EVERY EXCUSE imaginable as to why their kids can’t attend Mass.  RARELY are any of them decent reasons.  Usually it has to do with soccer, volley ball or gymnastics.  Junior (at age 12) will be the next soccer star of the universe and his team can’t possibly win without him and Princess can do the balance beam better than anyone and just can’t miss or be late!  From personal experience, parents are living their dreams through their kids.  If their kid is a star (or at least one perceived by them) they are a star.  THey want to be their kids friend.  I see so few decent parents, it makes me sad and I spend a lot of time adding families to our church prayer line!  Maybe, just maybe, if parents told coaches “No we won’t be at the field at 9 am, but we will be there AFTER we attend Mass”  oh and no these families aren’t taking advantage of the Saturday Mass.  Sadly, I think many parish priests are not holding parent’s feet to the fire either.  We want numbers so bad and so worried they will leave the Church we look the other way.  Well I say, if the Sports God is what they are doing on Sundays, then we already lost them.
Parents need to live up to the baptismal promise they made before God and everyone.  Teach the faith, live the faith.  At no point is church “optional” in my house.  You want options, move out.

@70s guy - I think we went to the same church! ha ha
Church was not optional for me growing up. 
I hold no ill will towards my parents or grandparents.  They were living up to the baptismal promise they made to GOD.  If your are not prepared to make that commitment, why go through with the baptism, unless to check a card?
But being Catholic is NOT just about a 60 minute Mass on Sunday.  Mass ends with Go Forth to Love and Serve….how many people really do that?

Cathy,
In other countries, confirmation is done at birth. I was confirmed in Mexico during my baptism and as I look back on my life, I feel that being confirmed blessed me beyond words. I remember loving to be an altar server, wanting to be a priest as a child, never questioning church teaching because something within my spirit knew I was hearing the truth. I ended up walking away from mass in my teenage years, but eventually came back and ended up in discernment for the priesthood. God called me to be a different kind of father but I believe the graces one recieves in confirmation helped save my life at times. With the state of society today, why not give kids extra tools to fight with? And we need to make people understand that faith formation never stops! There is just too much to learn, too many people to learn about to ever stop growing in faith. But maybe the leaders of our church are right when they say that the church will be smaller, but much more faithful.

Mary De Voe posted on Tuesday, Feb 26, 2013 2:37 PM (EST):
“When [unwilling teenagers] listen and hear in the Liturgy and in the Gospel that . . . .”

I can tell you from personal experience that a person forced to attend mass does not hear what a willing worshipper hears at mass. I heard “blah, blah, blah” while I thought about other things entirely, or perhaps noticed that the priest resembled any given shaman handling supposedly sacred objects in a ritual designed to effect some action on a plane other than the material one.

“. . . I have to ask: “Why are your children and yourself ashamed to go before God and petition God for Divine Providence, for our unalienable rights, for FREEDOM itself. WHY?”

I am confused by the previous comment. Shame has nothing to do with it. An atheist doesn’t see credible evidence for a “God,” and doesn’t feel the presence of a “God.” We don’t have the option to sincerely petition a being that is imaginary. We could go through the motions, but that is all it would be. Why would we choose to do this?

“Sometimes people reject their immortal souls to avoid the condition of death and dying. But the truth is that there is an eternity and going there is better when our souls are in the hands of God.”

OK, now I’m really confused. Atheists reject the concept of an immortal human soul to avoid the condition of death and dying? It seems to me that one of the strongest motivations to embrace the concept of an immortal human soul is fear of death and dying.

“When an atheist denies the Endower of unalienable rights, the atheist denies all unalienable rights and forfeits his citizenship or at least his unalienable rights. You cannot have it both ways. Cowalker, if you want freedom for your children, then you must tell them about the Creator and Endower of unalienable rights.”

As Jefferson asserted, it is better to maintain separation of church and state. We can agree as citizens that we have certain rights that are unalienable under our Constitution; we don’t have to agree that they come from a “God.” It might seem necessary to you to explain them as coming from a supernatural being, but it is not necessary to make the Constitution work. Others can agree that they form a sound foundation for a government based on checks and balances designed to maximize individual opportunities for iniative while providing for the common good. Since they live in the U.S. my children (now young adults) are well aware of the popularity of belief in the Christian God. They just don’t find the case for religion compelling.

I don’t think there are that many families that let their teens stop attending mass.  They just don’t always go with their families.  They go to the teen mass or they go when it most convenient for their schedule, especially when they are old enough to drive.  Teens are hyper busy these days with sports and school and it means they may not be able to go to the same mass as their parents who may prefer a certain mass time. I have a teen and sometimes he goes to the youth mass and sometimes he has to go to whatever the earliest or latest mass of the day is depending on his schedule.  So don’t assume anything when you see parents and families without their teens.

Do we really need sports and school activities on Sunday?  What other mortal sins are parents expected to excuse in teenage years because the business of being best or most popular in this world is so terribly important?  Did the father of the prodigal son change his house so that the son would not leave?  Had he done so, would the son have been able to come to his senses?  I had left the Church for many years, and when I returned found so many talking about this, that and the other discipline being relaxed so all would feel welcome.  I came back out of the sincere recognition that discipline is so very necessary, without it their is no continuity, no truth, no trust-a lot like the world we see today.  Allowing a teenager a pass on mass is like letting a young child play in the middle of a busy street, it is a grave negligence of the duty of a parent.

JJ Go wash your mouth out with a bar od soap.

Posted by cowalker on Wednesday, Feb 27, 2013 1:53 PM (EST):
Mary De Voe posted on Tuesday, Feb 26, 2013 2:37 PM (EST):
“When [unwilling teenagers] listen and hear in the Liturgy and in the Gospel that . . . .”

I can tell you from personal experience that a person forced to attend mass does not hear what a willing worshipper hears at mass. I heard “blah, blah, blah” while I thought about other things entirely, or perhaps noticed that the priest resembled any given shaman handling supposedly sacred objects in a ritual designed to effect some action on a plane other than the material one.
Cowalker, I was so hungry when at Mass, I pretended that the brown marble columns were pretzels and the while ones were marshmallows. Set your feet in the straight path, so when you can no longer find your way, you know how to get there. To a bar for drunkards, to the library for readers and to church for blessings.

“. . . I have to ask: “Why are your children and yourself ashamed to go before God and petition God for Divine Providence, for our unalienable rights, for FREEDOM itself. WHY?”

I am confused by the previous comment. Shame has nothing to do with it. An atheist doesn’t see credible evidence for a “God,” and doesn’t feel the presence of a “God.” We don’t have the option to sincerely petition a being that is imaginary. We could go through the motions, but that is all it would be. Why would we choose to do this?
The proof of God is yourself, your very existence, because God is existence, God is Being and God is Love, and God exists, God is and God loves. Go through the motions, It is called the Dark Night of the Soul an excellent book by Saint John of the Cross. Go through the motions so when the devil attacks you have God right there to protect you, God and the saints in heaven and your Guardian Angel.

“Sometimes people reject their immortal souls to avoid the condition of death and dying. But the truth is that there is an eternity and going there is better when our souls are in the hands of God.”

OK, now I’m really confused. Atheists reject the concept of an immortal human soul to avoid the condition of death and dying? It seems to me that one of the strongest motivations to embrace the concept of an immortal human soul is fear of death and dying.
Exactly. I am talking about my own experience in the fear of death and dying. It was only when I attended the Catholic Mass and I heard that every person on earth is remembered in the Liturgy that I took comfort knowing that I am going to be remembered for eternity. It is a promise.

“When an atheist denies the Endower of unalienable rights, the atheist denies all unalienable rights and forfeits his citizenship or at least his unalienable rights. You cannot have it both ways. Cowalker, if you want freedom for your children, then you must tell them about the Creator and Endower of unalienable rights.”

As Jefferson asserted, it is better to maintain separation of church and state. We can agree as citizens that we have certain rights that are unalienable under our Constitution; we don’t have to agree that they come from a “God.” It might seem necessary to you to explain them as coming from a supernatural being, but it is not necessary to make the Constitution work. Others can agree that they form a sound foundation for a government based on checks and balances designed to maximize individual opportunities for iniative while providing for the common good. Since they live in the U.S. my children (now young adults) are well aware of the popularity of belief in the Christian God. They just don’t find the case for religion compelling.
Only those founding principles that are ratified by 2/3 of the states, (the Declaration of Independence is ratified by all the colonies) are law. Jefferson’s opinion is just that, his opinion, but not ratified by the states to become law. The principle of separation of church and state is the reality that the state cannot regulate the Church and the freedom the church enjoys by virtue of teaching the truth and that the sovereign personhood of the people constitute the state and therefore the state cannot diminish or disenfranchise the people’s freedom.
The Declaration of Independence states that: “We hold these truths to be self evident, that all men are created equal and that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable rights…” Therefore, “We” as a nation hold that all men have a Creator. We petition Divine Providence and seek to “secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our posterity.” from the Preamble to our Constitution. Only the articles and amendments to our Constitution may be changed by 2/3 of the states ratifying the change. The Preamble, the reason for our Constitution remains intact and unchangeable.
Compelling is the fact that “unalienable rights” can only come from an infinite God, a God without beginning or end, a God of Perfect Virtues, of Justice, a God of free will and intellect, a God of Freedom. 
Thomas Jefferson also said that rights given by the state can be taken away by the state. The Declaration on Human Rights of the United Nations are such rights given by the “community”. American is the only nation on the face of the earth with a guarantee of “unalienable rights “ by virtue of infinity, and perfect freedom.

Cowalker, I was so hungry when at Mass, I pretended that the brown marble columns were pretzels and the while ones were marshmallows. Set your feet in the straight path, so when you can no longer find your way, you know how to get there. To a bar for drunkards, to the library for readers and to church for blessings.
The proof of God is yourself, your very existence, because God is existence, God is Being and God is Love, and God exists, God is and God loves. Go through the motions, It is called the Dark Night of the Soul an excellent book by Saint John of the Cross. Go through the motions so when the devil attacks you have God right there to protect you, God and the saints in heaven and your Guardian Angel.
I am talking about my own experience in the fear of death and dying. It was only when I attended the Catholic Mass and I heard that every person on earth is remembered in the Liturgy that I took comfort knowing that I am going to be remembered for eternity. It is a promise.
Only those founding principles that are ratified by 2/3 of the states, (the Declaration of Independence is ratified by all the colonies) are law. Jefferson’s opinion is just that, his opinion, but not ratified by the states to become law. The principle of separation of church and state is the reality that the state cannot regulate the Church and the freedom the church enjoys by virtue of teaching the truth and that the sovereign personhood of the people constitute the state and therefore the state cannot diminish or disenfranchise the people’s freedom.
The Declaration of Independence states that: “We hold these truths to be self evident, that all men are created equal and that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable rights…” Therefore, “We” as a nation hold that all men have a Creator. We petition Divine Providence and seek to “secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our posterity.” from the Preamble to our Constitution. Only the articles and amendments to our Constitution may be changed by 2/3 of the states ratifying the change. The Preamble, the reason for our Constitution remains intact and unchangeable.
Compelling is the fact that “unalienable rights” can only come from an infinite God, a God without beginning or end, a God of Perfect Virtues, of Justice, a God of free will and intellect, a God of Freedom. 
Thomas Jefferson also said that rights given by the state can be taken away by the state. The Declaration on Human Rights of the United Nations are such rights given by the “community”. American is the only nation on the face of the earth with a guarantee of “unalienable rights “ by virtue of infinity, and perfect freedom.

Making it mandatory for teens to attend church is equivalent to imposing religion on them. I was an atheist for as long as I can remember and never held to the nonsense spoon fed me during my Catholic upbringing. I was baptized (had no say in that so it means nothing to me) and I refused confirmation (I was more of a self-confirmed atheist by age 15). My atheist position has only solidified since then. But that never stopped my family from shoving their religion down my throat. I say “their religion” because it was never mine.
The right to follow or not follow the religion of one’s choice is enshrined in the US constitution which I fully support, but it doesn’t seem to apply to teens for some reason. Well, it should. If the church thinks someone is old enough to make a pledge (confirmation), they are presumably able to hold opinions on what they believe and make decisions on that basis—-including church attendance. Now if a youth is a believer but just lazy about going then I can understand parents pressuring them to attend church. However if they sincerely don’t believe or are even atheists that’s an entirely different matter and it must be respected… again the issue is about the inalienable right to belief. To force someone under these circumstances is a grave violation of their rights.
Such was the case with me and it only hardened my resentment against such tactics. My advice to atheist teens is to come out and stand proud as an atheists and fight with every bit of strength you have those who would impose religious nonsense on you by compulsion. If you are threatened with being kicked out or similar blackmail tactics you may have to go along so as to placate them. But I do not advise pretending to “believe” as that only stirs up further resentment within you and it’s important to keep the peace as long as you live at home.
For those teens who get the guilt treatment (what a rush)... that’s where your parents act shocked and heart broken. You may experience a whirl wind of their emotional outbursts including attempts to make you feel deeply ashamed. It might help to realize that you are not to blame for their despondency and negative emotions. What IS responsible is none other than their very own religious beliefs as it imbues in them a deeply rooted fear that you are unsaved, lost and destined to hell because you don’t follow as they do. As an atheist you already know about hell threats and how vile they can be… but remember your family are unwittingly captured by their belief system and unable at this point to reject even the most horribly absurd of it’s doctrines. Stirring up fear and anxiety is quite effective in perpetuating the belief but it’s also, unfortunately, one of the ways religion victimizes it’s followers. There is no greater crippler of the rational mind than fear and shear terror.

But you have escaped from it’s grasp and by virtue of your skeptical mind and critical faculties you simply don’t believe impossible nonsense for no good reason. I know it can be very liberating but it also has it’s downside when it comes to family and friends. Whatever happens, stay rational.

@Joe Bigliogo: If a person proclaims to be an atheist and refuses to pray for others, he is a selfish, egotistical, ungrateful, ad infinitum…

“If a person proclaims to be an atheist and refuses to pray for others, he is a selfish, egotistical, ungrateful, ad infinitum”

Mary, your attempts at insult and derision toward atheists are quite baseless and consistent with delusional minds. The stats vis-a-vis atheists demonstrate otherwise in regard to anti-social behaviors but I sense you are not interested in facts and would rather engage in ad hominem insults. Atheists are per capita lowest among prison populations and statistically less likely to divorce, commit crime and other anti-social behavior. Japan is an example of one of the most atheistic nations yet it has one of the lowest rates of murder, theft, rape in the world. You can research all this yourself but something tells me you don’t want to learn anything other than what you already believe.

But you are right about one thing—-atheists don’t pray. Since as an atheist I don’t believe in god(s), exactly who or what would I pray to? Sorry but I just can’t seem to conjure up imaginary specters from primitive, bronze age belief systems as well as you.