A reader writes:
So, I’m having a bit of a discussion with a friend about the veracity of the La Salette apparitions. I’m willing to submit to the Church’s authority and acknowledge that Mary did in fact appear to the visionaries in question, but I simply cannot believe that they understood Mary correctly, because it seems completely contrary to Scripture and Tradition for Mary to describe her Son thus:
“If my people do not wish to submit themselves, I am forced to let go off the hand of my Son. It is so heavy and weighs me down so much I can no longer keep hold of it.
I have suffered all of the time for the rest of you! If I do not wish my Son to abandon you, I must take it upon myself to pray for this continually. And the rest of you think little of this. In vain you will pray, in vain you will act, you will never be able to make up for the troubles I have taken over for the rest of you.”What are your thoughts on this? I know it’s a private revelation and not necessary for salvation, but my friend seems to think that if I don’t acknowledge the truth of the entirety of the message of La Salette, I am “picking and choosing” when I want to obey Church authority.
My gut says that this is ridiculous, but my gut has been wrong before.
Any help you can offer would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!
I’m not super familiar with La Salette, but my understanding is that the apparition of September 19, 1846 is approved (including these words). They are patient of an orthodox interpretation (namely, that God does sometimes allow people to have what they want if they persistently sin—and become hardened in impenitence). My understanding is that some of the seers made claims later on that are highly questionable (such as the claim that ““Rome will lose the Faith and become the seat of the Antichrist”. Approval of this apparition does not mean that everything else the seer(s) claimed is likewise approved.
And, in any case, it’s just a private apparition and not binding on your conscience. If it helps you serve and trust God better, then great. If not, move on to something that does. All an authentic private revelation (including this one) ever does is lead us back to the public revelation handed down to us from the apostles in the common worship, common teaching, and common life of the Church.
It is not “picking and choosing when you want to obey Church authority” when Church authority itself says of a private revelation, “There’s nothing here contrary to the faith and you can believe it if you like, but you don’t have to.” The Church never binds us to believe in a private revelation. The Church does not function on the theory “That which is not forbidden is compulsory.”
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The Catechism admits that revelation can be obscure (157) and, of course, that recognized private revelations do not “improve or complete Christ’s definitive Revelation.” (67) So, the question becomes: “Does this message contradict Scripture?” I do not think it does, especially when we take Blessed Mother’s repeated phrase “the rest of you” to refer to those who are rejecting God’s love. Scripture predicts widespread apostasy in the latter days and I believe we are seeing it, not just with today’s lukewarm, but at a time when the boldness and popularity of outspoken atheists has enticed them to ratchet up their rhetoric into anti-theism. (Keep in mind that “apostasy” implies complete rejection, not just heresy.) Jesus warned that no one knows the day nor the hour (Matthew 24:36), I believe, because the force of prayer against evil can delay or mitigate the prophesied chastisements. I also believe that Our Lady of La Salette’s revelation helps us “to live more fully by it in a certain period of history.” (67) After all, “The beginning of wisdom is the fear of the Lord.” (Proverbs 9:10) God is loving, but He is also just.
Don’t worry-get the words in the original language and then get a liberal dissenter to “translate” them. If they could make “et cum spiritu tuo” come out “and with you” or “pro multis” come out “for all,” they can give you something you can live with-but let them know your agenda before they begin “translating” or they cannot get it “right”. Otherwise, just say the Memorare to Our Lady “Remember oh most gracious virgin Mary,that never was it known that anyone who fled to thy protection, implored thy help, or sought thy intercession was left unaided. Inspired by this confidence, I fly unto thee, O Virgin of virgins my Mother. To thee I come, before thee I stand, sinful and sorrowful. Oh Mother of the Word Incarnate, despise not my petitions, but in thy mercy hear and answer me. Amen” She will NOT despise your petitions, nor let go of her Son’s hand, LaSalette or not.
“it’s just a private apparition and not binding on your conscience”
Hilarious in more ways than one.
“‘it’s just a private apparition and not binding on your conscience’
“Hilarious in more ways than one.”
If by *hilarious*, you wish to convey “true” and “succinct”, then I agree.
WWW.SPIRITDAILY.COM
@reader
You have done well to ask so that you do not follow your course of picking and choosing what the Church teaches. The Church is not a supermarket. The Faith is not optional. When something seems unreasonable you must always ask because you are probably not understanding it correctly.
In regard to, “Rome will lose the Faith and become the seat of the Antichrist”. You probably know about the coming of the False Prophet and the anti-Christ as recorded in Scripture directly or indirectly. The False Prophet will be an Anti-Pope who has taken the papacy by force or deceit. There have been many Anti-Popes in Church History. http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/01582a.htm Do not fear. Our Lady will triumph and there will be an Era of Peace_the Divine Era_wherein the Will of God will be done on earth as it is in Heaven. It is up to us to be faithful until that time or die trying.
I thought that it was in 1946 not 1846 that Our Lady appeared in La Salette. Please correct this.
Thank you.
No, it was 1846.
http://www.theotokos.org.uk/pages/approved/words/wordlasa.html
The first part, where Mary predicted crop failures (including the 1850 Irish potato famine) came to pass. The second part, which came to light in 1879, was not approved. This said in the year 1864, Lucifer together with a large number of demons will be unloosed from hell; they will put an end to faith little by little, even in those dedicated to God.
The whole text is here: http://www.miraclehunter.com/marian_apparitions/messages/lasalette_messages2.html
I believe much of the apparition had to do with the locals not observing the Sabbath, which grieved Mary. They worked on Sunday, took the Lord’s name in vain, etc., and Mary was seen crying.
We know as Catholics that Mary’s role is to intercede for us, her children, so what exactly is the problem? I believe it is the intercessors of this world and in heaven who are standing in the gap to hold back God’s justice. Saint Faustina even talks about the religious orders who pray for the world, and how Jesus told her how important their prayers were to avoid chastisements.
The apparition at La Salette is really no different in essence than Lourdes, Fatima, Medjugorje (latter still unapproved)etc. which tell the world to convert and pray to avoid catastrophe here or in the next world.
That goes against every message she has given. She always speaks of hope. To pray and repent. Yes she suffers because of us - but her love is unconditional - per orders of her Son! And our Lord promised never to abandon us! I don’t buy it.
If Mary is grieving, what does that make heaven? Is the teaching that heaven only consists of eternal happiness at the end of times, when Christ returns?
This makes me think of a fellow at my parish; he is of the opinion that the Marian apparitions are NECESSARY, and flatly denies that they are not part of the deposit of faith. In particular, he is apparently a big fan of Holy Love, which is near where I live (in Ohio) and which I personally consider to be a load of hogwash.
The troubling thing about this is the fact that he has a Master of Divinity degree from a seminary (can’t remember which) and ought to know better. But he persists in insisting that everyone MUST believe in these apparitions if we are to be saved. It’s very troubling.
You will take note that this particular apparition is not very well known at all. In all my years of visiting churches I have seen only one “image” of the devotion, and I believe that this is because it is a “misguided” devotion. All of the apparitions and devotions of and to the Blessed Mother are steeped in hope, love and mercy. They do not talk of vengeance, despair, punishment especially not in the way as presented in the LaSallete image. From the start there were many disputes, misgivings and problems with this apparition and and the seerers themselves and it was never promoted by the Church with any strength or fervence.
@laurie schultz
Mary cannot suffer in Heaven. She suffers through her children in the Church on earth. Most of these children are being lost because of the “wolves in sheep’s clothing” in the Church today. The suffering of chastisements are nothing compared to the loss of their souls for eternity. Remember that God chastised the world with a flood and only eight people were worthy to be saved. God punished Sodom and Gomorrah and only Lot and his family were saved. I have to ask myself, would I have been one of the few saved? Now, we have a chance to be one of the few…. be holy.
Patrick, it is not a misguided apparition.If it weer, it would not have been approved.
There is a statewide LaSallete Shirne, in Attleboro, MA. “In 1846, at La Salette in France, the Blessed Mother appeared to two children. Speaking to them she told them to make her message to “make known to all my people.” Inspired by Mary’s call for reconciliation with God, the Missionaries of La Salette were founded in 1852 as “ministers of religion” to be “faithful dispensers of the mysteries of God.” Their charism focuses on Reconciliation and the Eucharist. ” From Shrine site, http://www.lasalette-shrine.org/
Our lady has been holding back God’s wrath, with her mantle, for many, many centuries, and I believe that is why she started appearing around the world, to bring awareness to our sinfulness. Apparitions are not only for just the people in one area, but the world, and taking our Lord’s name in vain, not keeping Sunday Holy was a problem all around the world, and still is. I have a little stateu of Mary at LaSallette, where she is holding her head in her hands and crying. Such pain there is for her, when we disobey the Son she loves, as any mother would, and also because she is our mother, too. Christ’s peace
Tim:
How does this fellow get around the Church’s official teaching on private revelation?
Apparitions of this kind which are quite peripheral to our faith seem to appeal to the inadequate and simple-minded.
Tim: There’s quite a few people out there like that guy you encountered. Case in point: Spirit Daily. They base much, not all (I’m sure I’ll come under fire from by Spirit Daily followers for saying this; it’s not the first time), of their view of the future on something called the “1990 prophecy”. It was a dream given to an anonymous source; no one knows who the person is or if it was ever given to any Church authority. It surprises me how much coverage they give it; they quote these apparitions far more than Sacred Scripture.
I always believed that everything we needed for salvation and bringing God’s Kingdom here was all contained in Scripture. So according to that guy, I guess, I’m the one being fooled.
Lisa, not just in the bible, but through tradition, an very important asset, and the apparitions enhance our faith, but we are not obligated to believe, but we are sure missing a lot, when we do not : )
There is always the possibility that accounts of an apparition are not precise due to mistranslation and embellishment.
I can recall reading a book on Fatima wherein the children ask about a friend who had died and were told “She is in Purgatory until the end of the world”. This friend was a child. I had a great problem with this account and said so to my parents (I was a young teen at the time, and was old enough to understand the differences between the sins of a child and those of a young adult).
Years later I began to collect books on Marian apparitions. I acquired several books on Fatima, and all quoted Mary as stating “She is in Purgatory” and no more. I concluded that the “...until the end of the world” was a pious embellishment. I understand how a write could be tempted to do this, but it is still a falsehood and an injury to the credibility of the Church. Just thank God that most Catholic writers do not give in to that temptation.
So, in summary, there may be error in a particular report of a private revelation and not in the revelation itself.
...I understand how a writer could be tempted to do this, but it is still a falsehood and an injury to the credibility of the Church. Just thank God that most Catholic writers do not give in to that temptation.
So, in summary, there may be error in a particular report of a private revelation and not in the revelation itself.
The national shrine in Attleboro, MA is incredibly powerful:
http://www.lasalette-shrine.org/
Also, the book “A Woman Clothed with the Sun: 8 Great Apparitions of Our Lady” includes LaSalette and discusses how it is similar & different from other apparitions:
http://www.amazon.com/Woman-Clothed-Sun-Image-Book/dp/0385080190
Tom D it could also be that the other books you read omitted the words because they had trouble with it as you did. I read it too in a few books and in trying to understand it, a couple of things occurred to me. First,that when Jesus comes again He will first raise the dead and bring them to Himself and then raise the living up to Him so isn’t it possible that this purification happens over an extended time or another possibility could be that Jesus is returning soon so the child being in purgatory til He returns isn’t that long. We have been apart from His time on earth for two thousand years. It may well be in our own lifetime or that of our children that He returns, right? We do not know the day or the hour. Also we do not know the sin of this child. It could have been a series of things etc.
Pope Leo’s vision corresponds to the part of the apparition that says the faith will be lost. Pope Leo said he saw or heard Satan appear before God asking to be given one hundred years. He said people didn’t love God but that God made them love Him and that if he were given one hundred years he could destroy faith. Pope Leo heard God give him the twentieth century. Pope Leo passed out from fright and when he came to, he wrote the prayer to St. Michael the Archangel which he asked every church to say at the end of each mass. I pray we fight hard to hold on to real faith. The faith that knows that NOTHING is impossible with God and which places its trust in Him, not in man and which turns to prayer first, not last and which BELIEVES that what it asks will be done. The faith of at least a mustard seed.
Hi Pam,
That is a good point about “...it could also be that the other books you read omitted the words because they had trouble with it…”. The reason I had not considered that is because my experience is that writers who stay faithful to original source documents tend to become more accurate as time goes by. But you could be right on this, since while such a widespread misquote is unlikely it is not impossible.
I am familiar with the vision of Pope Leo. All I can say is, I wonder when the hundred years began, since the 21st century has a great potential to outdo the 20th in carnage. We must pray.
I have always accepted this revelation as it stands.
I’ve done research into Fatima by reading Portuguese transcriptions. I don’t remember this precise bit, but I do recall that many times, the usual English translations were dead wrong. As in, dead dead dead. IIRC, many English translations were actually translations of French or Spanish translations of the Portuguese. A lot of erroneous info was introduced in this way.
Primary sources are your friend.
I am an avid visitor and supporter of La Salette in Attleboro, Ma. From what I feel regarding The apparation of La Salette is Mary appeared to these children crying over the state of our world. She basically told the children to “Let it be known” to be loving, peaceful and to take the sacrament of reconciliation seriously.
The shrine is a holy place. Many great healings have happened at healing masses there through testimonies. The shrine is a wonderful contributor to the MA, RI community and beyond—For poeple of many cultures around the world come to the shrine for pilgrimages.
In all my time being catholic, I NEVER have went to a church, where you sometimes have a half hour or more to go to confession—That is how serious the visitors are that attend La Salette take their faith and the importance of confession.
With anything that is in regards to our faith, weather it be to understand the bible, saints, traditions and apparations, do some research until you find a greater understanding of the subject in hand. I absolutely disagree with just discarding something like the apparation of La Salette. Knowledge is power.
@Maureen O’Brien - great point about original sources. Just as an FYI:
OL of Fatima appeared in Portugual.
OL of LaSalette appeared in France.
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