Thank you for this essay, John. I wasn’t sure how to respond when many friends and relatives declared regarding the Newtown shooter, “At least that [creep] will burn in Hell forever!” (and to be honest, when that sentiment started to well up inside my heart, too). Thanks for putting an eternal perspective on this situation.
God bless!
www.MerryCatholic.com

I feel deep pity & sadness for the shooter & his family & wish to see no one in Hell, especially the mentally ill.
I own guns, belong to the NRA, & can’t really describe myself as a pacifist but think the Amish have the right approach- in most situations.If we can not be true pacifists, at least we can always forgive.That’s what Christ asked us to do & when we forgive, we manifest His love during tragedies.Love is stronger than hate.

PS: I’m concerned about Franky Schaeffer’s soul, too.I recently checked out his book from the library mistakenly thinking it was going to be like his old writings…
:(

  I don’t know anything about Adam Lanza’s soul, however I sincerely doubt he was a smug, self-satisfied person as I find myself so often to be.  Let’s leave it at that.  If I were one to have a bumper sticker it would say, “Love Them All And Let God Sort ‘em Out”. Now, if I can just remember that!

We can be sure, as faithful Catholics, that Lanza’s soul is exactly where it belongs. He has died, and he has been judged by Jesus Christ. We don’t need to know where Lanza’s soul is. That is not in our purview. We know that since his soul has been judged by God, and that since God’s judgement is perfect, that Lanza’s soul is exactly where it belongs.

Agreed.  I wonder, though, how many people really understand/believe what they’re saying when they wish another person in Hell.  Also, it is true at a fundamental level that in order to avoid Hell one must become a “new creature” (2 Corinthians 5:17) and become a “new man” (Ephesians 2:22-24)—a new creature that in some cases may be almost unrecognizably different.

I have been praying for Adam Lanza almost as much as I pray for the children and families killed. I have offered up my rosary for his soul as well as the souls he sent to their resting place several times.
For me, it was an easy decision to make: he was obviously not sane and therefore not completely culpable for his actions. It is possible that he did not realize the gravity or wrongness of his actions, thus not committing a mortal sin. I am certain that it is God’s will for me to pray for him.

Howard, Kathleen:

This is almost certainly the most important deep doctrinal dive any of us will ever have to make so it is worth putting as much thought into it as possible.

Kathleen, I am also a gun owner but I have to say you are completely wrong about hell. It’s not that I want to engage in polemics, far, far from it.

Please take time to read and think hard about the link I am forwarding. It may well usher in a sweeping sea change in the way you think about everything. Read and absorb in small doses. The Roman Catholic Church considers herself in full communion with Eastern Orthodoxy; so rest assured, you will not be putting your salvation at risk.

God bless you.

Steve ,
Thank you & God bless you, too.
I enjoy reading about the Eastern Orthodox Church & have friends who belong to it.
I think though, we’re talking about different concepts & differing translations of “Hell/Hades.”
My point was simply that I personally wish no one eternal damnation & leave their final destination up to their Creator.That’s His job.Mine’s to forgive.

Thanks for clarifying that Kathleen. Yes, the eastern Church has a very different take on what the Jewish sages referred to as sheol. The Eastern Fathers do tend to teach that Christ can reach out and save souls that for one reason or another are in hell (not just the OT righteous). That’s quite a lead of faith for us westies. The mechanics of how it all plays out, makes for riveting theology!

Wow, that’s great logic, John. I found I really don’t hate mass murderers as much as I thought I did.
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I guess the real reason I should convert to Catholicism is so that I won’t mistake the killing of children as such a bad event. Catholics can come of with the best of reasons to believe good can come from what I used to think were purely evil and senseless events.

Nancy—I don’t think you are understanding the point. Mr. Zmirak is saying that it is NOT wrong to hate evil and that sometimes we need to confront it. To not wish that a person be damned forever, even an evildoer, is to understand that we are all capable of great evil. (There but for the grace of God, go I).

If evil is confronted, wrongs corrected, justice brought upon those that commit crimes, good is being done to that person. Judgment is ultimately brought by God, but correction can be brought by us. In preparation for the final judgment, we are aiding a person and giving opportunity for repentance. I know there are a thousand scenarios, as in mental illness, etc., but when a Christian cooperates with God in bringing light to darkness, it is for the good of everyone, even the perpetrator of the evil.

Nancy,

Do you have any notion what eternal punishment might mean (emphasis on eternal)? There is no further chance for repentance or amending for sin. The most terrible suffering would never end. There would be no hope that it would ever end, for it would not. Ever.

————————————————
Mr. Zmirak,

You wrote:“We are not a religion for pacifists..” But you agree that we are called to be peacemakers? Thus, where peace is possible, we should strive for it.

You also wrote: “Nor is it hate to want to see a criminal be punished, or to take a grim satisfaction in the execution of his sentence.” But I would argue that to take satisfaction in a criminal’s suffering is evil. The only satisfaction one can have in the case of a criminal is that he or she has truly repented. That is what justice means in its highest form.

Adam Lanza acted out on the perceived notion that his mother was going to commit him to a mental institution and loved the kindergarten class of students she volunteered with more than she loved him, so he targeted those innocent children in his revenge against his mother. In the mind of a mentally-ill person, I sincerely doubt he could connect the dots of his actions and foresee the pain and heartache he would/did cause to so many people. His acts were evil, but he was not the pre-meditated evil person that Hitler was. If only the mental hospital a few miles from his home was not closed down by the liberal ACLU types. If Adam’s mental illness had been properly and expeditiously addressed, those innocent children would still be alive.

On the question of ‘wishing someone damned’ I offer this brief and quasi personal reflection: while refusing to reveal if or how often I have ever wished someone to be damned, I will cop to the fact that many times I have cursed my neighbor [who might be very close to me] in my heart.  That is of the same substance as wishing someone damned, though perhaps not to the same degree as the good Monsignor Zmirak rightly points out.  Still, it is not a great comfort to think that we have not jumped over the moral cliff by wishing someone damned when we have come pretty close by wishing them, well, death for instance.  Of course the ‘wishing them dead’ thing is almost of necessity ‘All in a good cause,’ mind you….MY cause, anyway…

Re Posted by Steve on Friday, Dec 28, 2012 4:55 PM (EDT):

“The Roman Catholic Church considers herself in full communion with Eastern Orthodoxy”.  Sorry, not so.  There are Eastern tradition churches (ex. Greek Catholic Melkite, etc.) which are in communion with Rome, but Eastern Orthodox is not.  Pray that someday they will accept the authority of Peter and join into communion with Rome as part of the Church Militant.  As far as Christ saving souls who are in hell: sheol, yes (CCC 633); gehenna, no (CCC 1034-5).  Readers, be clear as to the difference.

Insightful words. Thank you.

Keiffer,

Correct me if I am wrong but as far as the (Roman Catholic) canons are concerned, there is nothing to stop a member of the Church partaking of Holy Eucharist at an Eastern Orthodox service (and vice versa). This position however, is not reciprocated under the canons of the autocephalous Eastern Orthodox Churches.

Clearly we are talking of two different things here. Canonical unity is one thing, true unity quite another. The former is well expounded in Orientalum Ecclesiarum (1964), though the Eastern Church referred to here is not the Eastern Orthodox Church. True unity of course, is a direct result of the procession of the Holy Spirit, Who, is understood to proceed from the Father in the Eastern Orthodox Church, but also from the Son in the Roman Catholic Church.

As we all know, the Council of Nicaea (325) produced two schools of thought on the matter.

Wishing all readers a joyous Nativity and blessed New Year!

Steve,
Roman Catholics believe that churches which are in schism (out of union with Rome) can still have valid sacraments, so long as the ordinations have been valid all along the line.  That does not mean however that they are _licit_ sacraments, or that “there is nothing to stop a member of the Church partaking of Holy Eucharist at an Eastern Orthodox service.”  In fact, quite the opposite, Catholics are forbidden to do that unless it is an emergency situation. 
.
Think about the distinction between valid and licit that would apply, for example, to a priest who has been laicized as a penalty.  He’s still a priest, though he has no longer the authority to licitly administer sacraments. So if a Catholic was bleeding to death in front of him with no hope of final Confession except to him, they could make their Confession to him.  Similarly with Orthodox priests.  They have no authority to administer sacraments (because of not being in union with the Church), and so do so illicitly.  But a Catholic may in case of emergency receive the sacraments from them.

Marie,

Thanks.

This kind of discussion can lead to meditation on (what I have read) about different types of murder carried out by believing Italian mobsters.  In one case where they wished someone dead, they would wait for him to finish his Easter Duty, then murder him, thinking that he had been forgiven in Reconciliation.  My recollection is that this was a “White” death. By contrast, a “Black” death would be a sudden attack when they thought the intended victim was in the state of mortal sin.  The killing by Jack Ruby of Lee Harvey Oswald might be such an example.
We do not know how time works.  God could suspend time at the moment of death to allow the dying person a “last chance” at repentance. St. Dismas may not be the only person to “steal heaven”.
Assuming that you will always get to heaven no matter how you live sounds like Presumption to me.
Jesus taught that we should love one another.  Parables exist (Dives and Lazarus in Luke 16:19-31; and Last Judgment in Matt 25:31-46) giving examples of conduct that could get one to Hell.  Habitual living so as to care for others, and to forgive injuries rather than developing hatred, would seem a much safer course of action.
TeaPot562

John,
maybe we should concern ourselves more with Love and leave *any* amount of hate or even judgement aside.  In those cases of horrendous crimes, we need a method by which to encarcerate people - to keep society safe.  But, I don’t think we should ever really “want to see a criminal punished” or take any kind of satisfaction in the execution of his sentence.

Ours is to love.  Period.  Our God tells us to love our neighbors as ourselves and, beyond that, to love even our enemies.

To me, a good way to think about this is just to picture my love for my own children.  God forbid any of my children ever committed a heinous crime, but if they did, I would take NO satisfaction in their sentence.  With God’s help, I would not hide them from the law, but rather seek to help them atone for their actions by way of the fulfillment of their sentence along with any other real amends they could make.

Abortionists, spree killers, genocidal tyrants - all of these people are no different from you or me.  We are all broken.  Some of us have just had the blessing of hitting rock-bottom before our brokenness killed anyone… others have not been so fortunate.  But in any case, we should all seek ONLY to build each other up.  We need to concern ourselves with the salvation of all people - all of our brothers and sisters - all of God’s children.

“Love is patient, love is kind. It is not jealous, (love) is not pompous, it is not inflated, it is not rude, it does not seek its own interests, it is not quick-tempered, it does not brood over injury, it does not rejoice over wrongdoing but rejoices with the truth. It bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things.”

From John’s article one can see that to love everyone, even those who are evil, is not hard because it does not involve liking them. It is easy to love everyone, as God requires, because loving means wanting the best for them, which is conversion from their wickednes and ultimate entry into heaven. We also know that that is why there is a Purgatory.

Love of God first before all else naturally segueys into love of all people, and we don’t have to worry about anyone’s punishment because we know that in addition to being 100% a God of love and mercy, He is equally 100% a God of justice. It isn’t 50/50.

What more horrible punishment is there than conversion of heart where one finally realizes the wicked deeds they have done against God and other people. That sorrow is their Purgatory which will gain them Heaven.

THANK you Susan! My goal is always to show the reasonableness of faith, which often involves dismantling false inferences which well-meaning people have drawn from it—thereby rendering it a caricature, which seems absurd. Such caricatures I characterize as “schmoctrine.”

If LOVING everyone meant twisting one’s judgment, sentiments, and God-given healthy reactions of evil into a pretzel of misguided compassion, then it would be not prophetic or holy but EVIL to love everyone. Nietzsche wasn’t delusional when he spoke about “slave morality”; that does describe the liberal corruption of Christianity. But not the orthodox faith.

SUSAN, thank you for your comment. Interestingly enough, there is no mention of Purgatory in Eastern Orthodoxy. Perhaps this is because, to do so would be to assign it an ontology (so to speak) and context that it does not possess in the light of Pascha (Easter).

Steve, Having followed this stream from the beginning, I once again don’t quite understand your comment…“Perhaps this is because, to do so would be to assign it an ontology (so to speak) and context that it does not possess in the light of Pascha (Easter).”
To speak of ‘assigning’ an ontology to something that already exists in its essence, is a confusing statement.  Purgatory is a part of the Deposit of Faith, a non-negotiable; and it is precisely in light of Easter (Pascha) that a fuller understanding is shed upon it…the extreme mercy of God is illuminated thru it, and the undeniable justice of God is manifest in it.
Perhaps your comment about the Orthodox shows another of the breaches that keeps that Church out of Communion with the Catholic Church.  When one denies the authority of Peter, and breaks away from it, it’s an easy step to deny any other part of the eternal Deposit of Faith.  To deny Purgatory is to embrace a ‘protestant’ stance…it’s the main reason Luther took out the Books of Maccabees for the protestant Scripture.

Susan, your mention of “breaches” is interesting. In the Eastern Church the distinction is between mystical theology and religious philosophy. That they happened to almost coincide with geographical coordinates is purely incidental. In the narrative of the East, the divine light cannot be reduced to an abstraction. “...Though the perfect vision of the deity is perceptible in it’s uncreated light and is the mystery of the eighth day (and) belongs to the age to come” says Lossky, those who like the Apostles on Mount Tabor and Mary Magadalene in the tomb of Christ saw “the Transfiguration light” with their “bodily eyes…passed from the flesh to the Spirit” (cf. St Gregory Palamas’ Homily on the Transfiguration). The Eastern experience of Purgatory (most recently espoused by Fr. Seraphim Rose as the “aerial tollhouse” controversy) would seem to point to a more abstract manifestation of the economy of salvation. Last but not least. I have seen nothing in the Eastern Church that diminishes (less still “denies”) the “authority of Peter”. Quite to the contrary, recent pronouncements by the Patriarchs of the East have edifying and full of grace.

The Southern Poverty Law Center has designated several Christian groups as hate groups, including American Family Association, Family Research Council, Abiding Truth Ministries, American Vision, Chalcedon Foundation, Dove World Outreach Center and Traditional Values Coalition….

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hate_group

Active Radical Traditionalist Roman Catholic groups:

Catholic Apologetics International at www.catholicintl.com
Catholic Family News at www.cfnews.org/cfn.htm
Culture Wars /Fidelity Press at www.culturewars.com
Fatima Network at www.fatima.org
In the Spirit of Chartres Committee at www.realcatholicism.net
Legion of St. Louis at www.legionofstlouis.com
Omni Christian Book Club at www.omnicbc.com
The Remnant Newspaper at www.remnantnewspaper.com
Slaves of the Immaculate Heart of Mary at www.catholicism.org
St. Joseph Forum at www.stjosephforum.org
Tradition In Action at www.traditioninaction.org

Posted by Enrique on Saturday, Dec 29, 2012 1:58 PM (EDT):
Nancy,
Do you have any notion what eternal punishment might mean (emphasis on eternal)? There is no further chance for repentance or amending for sin. The most terrible suffering would never end. There would be no hope that it would ever end, for it would not. Ever.

Then why did God/the Catholic Church create the concepts of damnation, hell, and evil?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Problem_of_Hell

Here I will upset the apple cart by skipping over everything and say - since there had been mention of Easter, The Resurrection and St Mary Magdelen - that The Blessed Mother was in the Garden of the Resurrection on Easter morning.

Tradition says that she was piously sitting in the Upper Room in a chair which seems a bit too sweetly pious.

The Gospel of John was written in Greek and the only place in Sacred Scripture that the 2 names Jesus and Mary appear together is in the Garden of the Resurrection on Easter morning when there were about 1000 Marys present. (Mary, Mary, Mary she, she, she) However it is easy to figure out which Mary is whom.

In John 20:16 the Greek reads: “Says to her Jesus; Mariam”, using her proper name, as Adam addressed Eve using her proper name in Genesis 3:20. Jesus thereby crowns the Blessed Mother as the Second Eve and Mother of the Church (will go into Co-Redemptrix later which should send half of you up the wall).

“Having been turned that one says to him in Hebrew, ‘Rabboni’” is Mary Magdalen who has just returned upon the scene from racing to tell St Peter and The Beloved Disciple (John) that Jesus’ body is missing.

I have to go cook dinner now, so leave this for discussion among you.
Susan

The Christian Hate Groups I listed above (it was checked for spam) will not be damned because they believe in God and Jesus.
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Hell is only for non-believers. (Sarcasm)

Hi Nancy,

Out of curiosity I looked up the Southern Poverty Law Center reference you gave, looked at their hate map, went to my state (Florida) and looked at the groups, only to find listed the #1 anti-Catholic hate group in the area which is Truth Triumphant run by avid Catholic hater, Bill Hughes. He’s a Seventh Day Adventist who sends out anti-Catholic hate books and pamphlets around the world. Used to run into him at the post office with his large rolling bin of hate packages that he was mailing to Asia, Europe, Australia, Canada, South America… all hate material printed in both English and Spanish.

One day he was telling the post mistress about his material. I overheard and quickly interrupted to tell the woman not to believe anything he was telling her about the Catholic Church because it was all lies. I then introduced myself, told him that I am a Catholic and began telling him a few truths of the Catholic faith whereupon he immediately broke out into a sweat. I almost needed a bathing suit by the time we finished talking because he was sweating so profusely…. moping his brow with his shirt sleeve, shifting his weight from foot to foot, leaning on the counter in case he fainted I guess.

This man travels around the world giving hate speeches against the Catholic Church and has written several ridiculous books blaming the Jesuits for everything. (OK..he might be right there).

We found out where he stored his hate books and materials and it was all my daughter could do that day to keep me from lighting a match to the building. I thought I might go back one night and torch the place but of course if I had done that I would have been coinvicted of a hate crime.

Susan

My dear Susan. I will remember you in my prayers as I hope you will, me, sinner that I am.

Susan—my point was that the hate groups are Christian-based. My post was a response the this paragraph:
.
Of course, if you are not Christian, you might not believe that hate is always wrong.  We Christians have been given greater promises and higher hopes. We believe that earthly life is good, and eternal life with God is infinitely better. So the only real act of hate we can commit is to hope that someone is damned.
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It’s not surprising that there are Christian sects that hate Catholics and vice-versa.

Enrique—
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I’d still like to learn what you think about the reason(s) hell exists as a necessary Catholic concept or as very real possible afterlife.

Hi Nancy,

Of course hell exists. We know it exists because there are people who hate God and would never want to spend eternity with Him. Where else would those souls be but in a place where God is not?

Susan

Nancy,

I accidentially answered your question to Enrique instead of the one addressed to me….

In answer to your question to me….In reference to “Christian based hate groups” one has to look at who it is defining “Christian” and the criteria they give for classifying that particular entity as a hate group.

For instance, I was “kicked off” a vile homosexual blog for being “hateful”, “filled with hate”, “a hater”, and so forth. They blocked my (underground) email because I was telling the truth. For instance - I told them that Chastity Bono will always be a woman even though she has had her breasts removed, is on testertone, has a beard and looks like a man. Any geneticist looking at her sex chromosomes can immediately tell that this particluar human person is female because she possesses two of the same sex chromosomes (XX).

For that and other common sense clues to truth I was classified as a hater in their eyes. Someone to be killed. To be hated by them. However, the entire blog was (is) filled with hate againt normal people,
pregnant women, the family of one man and one woman united in the Sacrament of Holy Matrimony…and having lots of children, and an enormous amount of hatred in particular for the Pope and the Catholic Church, priests and nuns. Some days I could hardly bear to look at answers to my posts.

So, if the people connected to that blog had any authority to define or categorize and file the Catholic Church or Pope Benedict XVI under anything or into any group, they automatically put it under “hate group” ...when in actuality they are the ones filled with rage and hate before all else.

Therefore, before believing anything in a book or on a website one must know, as we were taught in school, WHO it is saying this, WHAT are they saying it for, WHY are they saying it (bias?), WHERE did they get their information…and WHEN.

As for the second part of your question/comment - any group that truly hates anyone - for instance the Ku Klux Klan hated Catholics and black people - is not Christian and definitely not Catholic. If you show me a “Catholic” group who hates, I will demonstrate how that particular group is not Catholic by definition of what it means to be (an orthodox) Catholic….orthodoxy being Truth.

Susan

Susan—
.
Of course hell exists. We know it exists because there are people who hate God and would never want to spend eternity with Him. Where else would those souls be but in a place where God is not?
.
You answered the question I addressed to Enrique by mistake, but do you believe hell is as he described it—eternal torment? Anyone who “hates God” and doesn’t want to spend eternity with God would be fine with an afterlife separated from Him.
.
Personally I don’t hate God, because I can’t hate something that does not exist. I don’t worry about hell, heaven, or purgatory because they don’t exist either—your explanation did not convince me.
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As to your other response—Can you post the link to the homosexual site you trolled? I’d like to judge them for myself instead of taking your word for what they do. You’re obviously prejudiced.
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You might want to look at this video—I would be interested in your take on it:
.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LYMjXucTFaM

Steve,

I can use those prayers from you right about now. Thank you. All prayers anyone has ever prayed for me are greatly appreciated and reciprocated as best I am able.

Susan

Hi Nancy,

1) The website is www.queerty.com

2) The video you referenced is biased. I watched it all but every point made was biased in favor of convincing naive people that homosexuality is acceptable human behavior, which it isn’t.

One lie in the video is about animals being homosexual. In my youthful years of riding show horses, fox hunting and galloping race horses in Florida, Louisiana, Virginia, Maryland I have never ever witnessed homosexual horses among the thousands I have seen and been sround.

Two stallions will kill each other, not have sex together. Stallions are kept separate from each other and other horses (mares, geldings, and the younger horses) because of this truth. Two mares would be clueless. Two geldings - castrated stallions - will calmly eat grass together, not have sex with each other.

The very secular medical associations mentioned in the video are just that - secular, which means they will adhere to anything but certainly not science.

Forming opinions and/or beliefs from a cartoon is not solid education.

3) Your non-belief in God is unfortunate for you because the second you die and stand before Almighty God at your entrance into eternity what will you say? Remember Pascal’s Wager and all that. You are like the man in Luke (16:20-31) who died and went to hell but realized too late. Reading that Biblical truth is better for your soul (and yes, you have a soul) than a biased Youtube cartoon.

4) And yes, I believe that hell is eternal torment. Satan lies to people…wicked people think that since they hate God they’d be just fine without him. There is the lie. Once in eternity and separated from God by their own choice the wicked have but one place to spend their eternity and that is in hell with Guess Who.

Don’t think that Satan provides those souls with a merely jolly wicked evil sort of eternal existence like that which they lived here on earth. Once there they are eternally tormented according to those evils which they did on earth.

5) The angels are real (Satan being one….a bad one, once the most beautiful of all the angels God created). If the veil over our eyes that prevents us from seeing into eternity were lifted, we would clearly see there the angels God created.

They are created persons except that they have no mortal bodies (they are spirits). Their intelligence is far greater than ours since they have the ability to see and understand everything at once. Hence with the free will given them by their Creator, they, at the first moment created, had the ability to choose God or themselves. Satan chose himself and one third of the angels went with him. Those are the companions of souls who also choose Satan for eternity.

I myself prefer hopefully to spend eternity with God, His Blessed Mother, all the saints and good angels and my mom and dad.

6) Homosexual same-sex “marriage” is a lie and here’s the proof: Human persons are spirits with a mortal body - that is, we are body and soul. Leaving the soul out of the point about to be made because of the legnth of explanation, we will look at the body only.

Man is made in the Image of God, mostly in the soul. However in the body that image is not of one human person alone. The Image of God in our bodies is the FAMILY - man, woman, child/children. The procreative FAMILY.

Homosexuality is the image of Satan…man, man or woman woman is NOT the image of the procreative family of God. It is the image of evil and wickedness, therefore of Satan. Shall we have it passed in legislature so that Satan wins? So that when God looks over all the earth he will see not the image of Himself mirrored in mankind, but rather the image of Satan?

7) Am I prejudiced against homosexuality as you said? As Catholics we love (which does not mean like) the human person but not the wicknedness they do. We want what is best for every person. We want for you to love God as much as we do so that you will be able to live a life of goodness worthy of eternal happiness.

If you do not believe in God, at least go to tne garden department of Lowe’s and see the vasy array of flowers there. Pick up a pot and examine one tiny flower.

Susan

Susan, commending you to our Heavenly Father and wishing you “Peace that transcends all understanding”. Thank you.

Steve

Nancy,

I answered you however they haven’t or won’t print my reply.

Susan

Personally I don’t hate God, because I can’t hate something that does not exist. I don’t worry about hell, heaven, or purgatory because they don’t exist either—your explanation did not convince me.
—Nancy (2:04 AM)

Ha - “does not exist”, “they don’t exist” - you’re assuming what you’re trying to prove, Nancy.

Susan—is your answer being screen for spam? There is an algorithm for certain words on this site to make sure a reply won’t be blasphemous or offensive.
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In any case, I’m sure your reply will pass through eventually. I’ll look for it.

Nancy,

Yes…being screened for spam the message said. The name of the website I was on that you requested might be one of reasons and also a bit of the subject matter…which I should have thought of. Maybe they will post some of it?

Susan

Susan,

If they clear your message, the should post all of it. I haven’t come across any incident where they cut some lines—It’s all or nothing.
.
I thought maybe if I looked, I could understand their point of view as to why they were so hostile. The thing to know is that sex is in the genetics, but gender identification and sexual orientation are in the hormones. Did you look at the video I posted?

Micha—
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Ha - “does not exist”, “they don’t exist” - you’re assuming what you’re trying to prove, Nancy.
.
Does that mean you’re a polytheist? Do you believe in Yahweh, Jesus, heaven, hell, Valhalla, Hades (both the god and the place), Olympus, the gods and goddesses of Egypt, Scandinavia, Greece, Rome, etc.?
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It’s up to you to prove that your God exists. There is not evidence, so I don’t believe. I’m not trying to “prove” the non-existence of any gods or afterlife—I’m just saying I’m not convinced.

Nancy,

Yes I looked at the video and much of my answer to you was on that. It is biased and the part about animals being homosexual is completly false. I have been around horses half my life - show horses, fox hunters, race horses - and have never witnessed horse homosexuality. That is absurd.

The medical associations mentioned are secular and as such believe anything most of which has nothing to do with real science and medical issues.

Also, forming opinions from a biased cartoon is not sound education. Mostly people do not think…they just emote. They want to engage in their sin therefore make up excuses (and youtube videos) so that their choice of behavior seems natural - but it isn’t, and normal people will never accept that it is.

I went into more detail in the previous unposted comment…yes, there is hell and yes, Satan torments those souls there because it gives him sadistic pleasure.

The website that I named would be an occasion of sim if anyone were to look at it so they were right not to publish it for all to see. The people on that site are hostile to normal people because they are filled with hate and rage.

This is short and therefore not well explained, but hopefully it will help you to think a bit more about the seriousness of our earthly life and why we are here.

The God Whom you do not know or believe exists still knows and loves you. Perhaps one day you’ll feel the need for God. When that happens, ask Him to help you believe, and He will do it.

Susan

Nancy,

I give up. I just wrote you another comment and again it was blocked. So sorry.

Susan

That video is filled with lies.

Susan

Gender is an accident of nature; “gender identification” is a choice of the free will…and we know that people do sometimes choose to do evil.

Susan

Hell is real because evil has to have someplace to dwell in eternity. So the question is: Do practicing homosexuals go to Heaven?

That video is filled with lies.
Susan
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How do you know?
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Gender is an accident of nature; “gender identification” is a choice of the free will…and we know that people do sometimes choose to do evil.
Susan
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How did you learn that?
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Hell is real because evil has to have someplace to dwell in eternity. So the question is: Do practicing homosexuals go to Heaven?
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I wrote before that I don’t believe in heaven or hell. You are begging the question. Your Catholic faith tells you there is a heaven and a hell. You have no other evidence except in mythological fiction.
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Basically, you believe homosexuals will go to hell because they are “choosing evil.” I’ll bet you have never met a homosexual, or rather you don’t know if you’ve met a homosexual—how do identify a gay person if s/he doesn’t tell you?
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Religion will teach you to fear being different, to fear standing up for yourself, and to fear being an independent thinker. It will erode your self-trust by explaining why you’re unable to successfully manage life on your own terms: You are unworthy. You’re a sinner. You’re unclean. You belong to a lesser caste. You are not enlightened. Of course the solution is always the same — submit to the will of an external authority. Believe that you’re inadequate. Give away your power. Follow their rules and procedures. Live in fear for the rest of your life, and hope it will all turn out okay in the end.
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When you practice faith instead of conscious living, you live under a cloak of fear. Eventually that cloak becomes so habitual you forget it’s even there. It’s very sad when you reach the point where you can’t even remember what it feels like to wield creative freedom over your own life, independent of what you’ve been conditioned to believe.
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Faith is the coward’s substitute for courage.
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Do some research outside the Catholic faith and learn to think for yourself. You just might like it!

Susan—
Will this guy go the hell? He’s only sorry he got himself in a position he couldn’t get out of…
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http://www.blogster.com/ricksbest/gagged-priest-on-leave-following-handcuffing-incident
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I doubt you’ll find the story in the National Catholic Register.

Re: Video: I know the truth so it’s easy to spot lies.

re: You say that I’ve never met a homosexual. My answer: Hahahahahaha.

Susan

Re: Your inference that I am filled with fear because of religion

My answer: You poor thing! You have it backwards: It’s evil that fears truth.

Also…Nancy…I don’t have time to watch that second video. I have to go watch Downton Abbey now.

Susan

Regardless of Sr. Helen Prejean’s other dissidences, one thing that was done right in “Dead Man Walking” is that she had compassion for a vile and inhuman murderer, and wanted him to repent and be saved.  The movie made it clear that while desiring his damnation was human, and we could sympathize with that, Christ called us to hope and pray for his salvation.

@Enrique, when Mr. Zmirak suggests ours is a religion for peacemakers but not pacificsts, he’s drawing some equivalency between pacifism and appeasement.  We are the Church Militant, and while our weapons are not those of the world, we are ever in combat.  And the virtue of justice is giving every man his due, and for those who do evil (a group from which I cannot exclude myself), that will include punishment.

Some of our weapons ARE of this world though. For instance, John Zmirak writes books, there are websites, blogs, newsletters, newspapers, movies, the March for Life, various groups such as Priests for Life and so forth. God gives people various abilities to be used for His greater Glory, all of which can be categorized as weapons to combat evil in this world.

Mother Angelica & EWTN, Ignatius Press, Roman Catholic Books, Baltimore’s great Jack Ames and his Defend Life, Mary Ann Kreitzer & Les Femmes of Truth from the Arlington Diocese, Jim Fritz of West Virginia and his TV station and The Defender newsletter, Stephanie Block of Los Pequenos in New Mexico and Spero Forum, Allyson Smith of california, VOCAL in Washington State, Janet Baker from DC, and many more in the Catholic Media Coalition - all Soldiers of Christ in the Church Militant using their God given talents and skills as WEAPONS in the fight against the powers of evil here on earth.

Well, Susan—the only thing we agree on is that we like Downton Abbey.
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Why do you think the Church is the ONLY truth? Jesus never married and his disciples were all men—that suggests something to me. That kinky priest has a somewhat different sexual orientation (masturbation) that is not approved by the Church.
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My answer: You poor thing! You have it backwards: It’s evil that fears truth.
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Did that comment make you feel you that you know more than I do? The person who chooses not to think is worse than a fool.
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You haven’t answered my questions: How do you know the video is full of lies? How did you learn that sexual orientation is a choice and that homosexuals are evil? How do you know you haven’t met a homosexual?
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You are using your faith as an excuse to avoid thinking about unpleasant subjects. It ironic that you are posting your hatred of homosexuals under a blog about “what hate really means.” Your replies demonstrate the fearful, closed-minded hate homosexuals are up against.

Religions are very effective at turning human beings into sheep. They’re among the most powerful instruments of social conditioning. They operate by eroding your trust in your own intellect, gradually convincing you to put your trust into some external entity, such as a deity, prominent figure, or great book. Of course these instruments are usually controlled by those who administrate the minion training program, but they don’t have to be. Simply by convincing you to give your power away to something outside yourself, religion will condition you to be weaker, more docile, and easier to control. Religions actively promote this weakening process as if it were beneficial, commonly branding it with the word faith. What they’re actually promoting is submission.

You sound like Karl Marx. That’s what he said also.

And actually, it’s you who are submissive. You are submissive to your sex habit which falls in the realm of Satan’s kingdom. Being one of his minions is literally being in chains….slavery…submissive slavery.

Also…just FYI - I know several homosexuals and have been to the local pride parade where I took pictures. Of course the photos were for sending across the US to various organizations. When 2 homosexuals with their baby boys (those poor children) realized what I was doing, one of them got up, turned around and mooned me, so I have a picture of his fat bum…which I sent everywhere on the Internet so people can see what homosexuals really do and how they just cannot seem to behave properly anywhere - even in public.

At a gay and lesbain meeting which I snuck into to take notes, I was elected secretary. Talk about dumb! After elected I told everyone to please put their name, address, phone number and email on a sheet of paper that the President nicely passed around for me. I got all the information I had hoped for and more! and in their own handwriting with their own signatures. It was so much fun!

So yes, I know a few.

Oh yes…I forgot about Orlando’s Gay Days where I walked into the homosexual Parliment House down at the end of Robinson Avenue where there were about 1,000 gay guys in Speedos everywhere. Even the palm trees by the lake down from the pool were decorated in rainbow ribbons. I have pictures of that also. I wasn’t afraid since I knew not one of them would be interested in a woman. My only mistake was telling the gate keeper that I was there to do a report for a newspaper. I had to constantly dodge the owner who finally caught up with me as I was leaving…after getting all the info and pictures needed.

So yes, I am quite familiar with the gay scene. After all, I live in Florida. What more can I say?

Yes, at least Downton Abbey provides common ground.

Oh…BTW…a few times you’ve told me to look outside the Catholic faith because you say I might like it. You’re wrong again. I’m a convert so know what’s out there…that’s why I’m a Catholic now, thank God.

I am blessed and ever grateful to be a sheep of the Good Shepherd. Faith requires humility, which is not synonymous with stupidity. Read Augustine or Aquinas for a few examples of intense intelligence. There is no end to the depths of our God and we can spend all our lives seeking and never reach the end of His love for us.
+JMJ+

Kelly, the Good Shepherd does not run away. Susan, the Orthodox understand Catholic as “fullness”. *JMJ*

Steve—Amen.

Susan—
I’m impressed! Did you actually read the works of Karl Marx? Are you really a spy for the Religious Right? What do you intend to do with the information you collected? Are you going to start a hate blog?
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I think I’ll forward this thread to the Orlando police—they might be interested.
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What did you convert from? I’ll bet it’s another religious cult.
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You must get so exhausted putting make-up on two faces each morning.

Thank you dear Kelly.

Hi “Nancy”,

Mymymy. A raw nerve has been exposed! And don’t be so daft. Everyone reads Karl Marx in college.

Susan

Back to John’s article…the theme of which is…that even though I do not like “Nancy”, as a Catholic, I must love “Nancy” and pray for him or her to one day be able to merit Heaven through repentance and conversion.

Recently we have seen numerous cases of mass murder committed throughout the United States.
Some leftists have claimed that guns are the culprit. However this is obviously not the case, because murder exists even in nations with strict gun control and all gun control does is make the government all powerful and not answerable to rebellion.
Gun control takes away our right to rebellion against a tyranny.

Thus I think the real issue is related to faith. Godlessness has taken root in Christian America and has spread like a curse. If we want to reduce violence in this country we need to purge the Atheist elements that promote slaughter and supremacy of the strong as the natural course of evolution.

Intelligent design should be taught in the place of evolution in our public school system. Church attendance should become mandatory and abortion and homosexuality should be illegal.

This will do far more to combat social violence then an assault weapons ban ever would.

Ernest - No. You will simply lose your peace if you try to pursue political goals as means in themselves. If you acquire the Holy Spirit, a thousand thousand around you will be saved.

Downton Abby rocks! In season three, Sybil dies from eclampsia after giving birth to her daughter, who is baptized in a Catholic chapel!
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In the Christmas special at the end of season three, Mathew is killed in a car crash!!
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At Downton everyone is talking about how happy they are to have Mary and Matthew’s baby boy safely born. Robert says that everything is going so well and he “wonders what I have done to deserve it”. Violet agrees, but says that, “we don’t always get our just deserts.” At the same time as this is happening Matthew is driving back to Downton. He is not paying due care and attention to the road and has to swerve to miss a truck. His car overturns and crashes into a tree and Matthew dies, the last we see of him is him lying motionless, with his eyes open and blood running from a head wound.
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In the hospital Mary is happily sitting up in bed with her baby and Anna is fussing round her, as they wait for her family to arrive. Mary says to Anna that she must tell Matthew to wait his turn as, “he has seen the baby and they haven’t.”
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Isn’t that exciting?!