A reader writes:
I know that it is always good to pray for the souls in Purgatory. Otherwise, the souls won’t make it to Heaven. However, is it O.K. to pray that all of the souls in Purgatory be released and allowed to go to Heaven. In fact, the moment all souls would be released (if God wants to do this), then a new batch would come into Purgatory and take their place. Am I correct in this? Or, are we only supposed to pray for people we know that have died? Let me know (if you would). Thank you so much. Happy Advent (it’s still not Christmas yet).
Thank you for the questions! And Happy Advent to you as well (good point about it not being Christmas yet!).
Allow me to go through the query a bit at a time:
I know that it is always good to pray for the souls in Purgatory.
Yes! Absolutely! Always a good thing to do!
Otherwise, the souls won’t make it to Heaven.
Actually, they will. Purgatory is the final stage of purification for those who die in God’s friendship but who aren’t yet completely freed from the consequences of sin. Because they die in God’s friendship, they will—without any exceptions at all—make it to heaven.
Our prayers, therefore, do not affect whether they make it to heaven. Instead, they affect how they make it to heaven. Specifically, they make the transition to heaven easier.
What “easier” means in this context is something that we don’t have a lot of information about, because God hasn’t revealed that much to us. It may be that they make the transition easier in the sense of shortening the time (however time works in the afterlife) that it takes the souls to make the transition, or it may be that it eases the transition in some other way (e.g., it involves less discomfort).
What we do know is that it helps the holy souls somehow. There is even biblical warrant for this, as illustrated by the prayers offered by Judah Maccabee and his men for those who had died in battle defending the cause of Israel but still tainted by wearing superstitious charms (2 Maccabees 12).
You might think of the situation as rather like praying for a friend who is at boot camp at the beginning of his military service. Boot camp is designed to take people from a certain physical and mental level and toughen them up so that they will be ready for full military service. You might pray for your friend while he is in boot camp so that the experience goes well with him, is easier on him, but if he completes boot camp at all, he will be brought up to the right level.
We have the assurance that those who experience purgatory will be brought up to the level needed for heaven, but our prayers can still help with that transition.
However, is it O.K. to pray that all of the souls in Purgatory be released and allowed to go to Heaven.
As we said, it’s not that the souls will be allowed to go to heaven, but we can pray for all the souls in purgatory that their final purification will go more easily (in terms of time or difficulty).
In fact, the moment all souls would be released (if God wants to do this), then a new batch would come into Purgatory and take their place. Am I correct in this?
This is possible—at least in our age—depending on how time works in the afterlife.
We don’t really know how time works in the afterlife, though there are clear indications in Scripture that there is some kind of sequentiality that departed souls experience (death, particular judgment, purgatory, heaven, resurrection, final judgment, eternal order). They don’t have the kind of timeless eternity that God does. The trouble is that we don’t know how this sequentiality maps on to time as we experience it. There have been different theories about this over the course of the centuries.
It’s certainly true, though, that if God chose to instantly free all the souls in purgatory at a single moment in time (as we experience it) in the present age of the world then new souls would quickly appear in purgatory as people pass into the afterlife.
It may even be that this happens regularly, since purgatory may not take time as we know it. In a book that he wrote on eschatology (the study of the last things) before he was Pope Benedict XVI, Joseph Ratzinger wrote that purgatory may have an “existential” duration rather than the kind of extended-through-time duration we experience. If so then souls might pop into purgatory for an existential moment, be purified and transitioned to heaven, and then be replaced by new souls continuously.
That wouldn’t affect our prayers for them, though, since God is not bound by time at all (he is truly outside of it altogether) and so can apply our prayers—no matter when in time we make them—to a person at the point (existential or temporal) when they are being purified.
Or, are we only supposed to pray for people we know that have died?
It’s definite not the case that we should only pray for those who we personally know. We are most welcome, and even encouraged, to pray for all the souls in purgatory, whether we knew them in this life or not.
That’s why the Church has designated November 2 as All Souls Day. It is the liturgical commemoration of all the holy souls in purgatory, in which the Church (and we as members of the Church) pray for all who have died in God’s friendship but who still need purification.
Incidentally, I’ve devoted a particular installment of my Secret Information Club mailings to Pope Benedict’s teaching on purgatory, so if you’d like to know more about what Pope Benedict has said on this subject, I’d encourage you to join the Jimmy Akin Secret Information Club (www.SecretInfoClub.com), and one of the (hopefully) fascinating things that you’ll receive in your email inbox will be devoted to this very subject!
I hope this helps!
What do you think?
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When praying for the Poor/Holy Souls let us not forget to pray especially for those who are there because of us. We participate in the sins of others in many ways and share in their guilt and they in ours.
We should also ask them to forgive us for leading them into sin and FORGIVE THEM for sins committed against us or causing us to sin.
There are many indulgences that can be applied to the suffering souls in Purgatory and should be applied often. The use of holy water is one of them. Do not be afraid to use it often. Try holding your hand over a candle until someone in your household uses holy water again. This is just a thought to urge you to use holy water and not advised to practice.
Reportedly, a soul re-lives their life in Purgatory for every moment they did not live for God on earth. This news comes from a nun in Purgatory who was allowed to return to tell another nun of her stay in Purgatory.
See also Pope Benedict’s more ‘official’ teaching on the topic of Purgatory in his Encyclical ‘Spe Salvi’ paragraphs 45-47.
Remember partial and plenary indulgences can be applied to the members of the Church Suffering.
Remember to pray for the Holy Souls when you approach the Altar or the Tabernacle (or both).
Remember you can offer up all the world’s joys, sufferings, good works and prayers for them too.
Remember you can make a Heroic Act of Charity (a type of proffering) for the Church Suffering.
Remember you don’t have to fear Purgatory; trust in God: He is the Creator, Savior and Sanctifier.
Remember to not fall into the heresy that Purgatory is a level of Paradise or a level of Hell.
Remember to not fall into the doctrinal error that the glory of the Saints can be increased.
we should pray for all souls in purgatory especailly those that are forgotten or have nobody to pray for them…
How does a Catholic know who is in purgatory?
Edward:
We don’t “know” who is in Purgatory. As far as the afterlife is concerned, we “know” that the saints are in Heaven. Everything else is speculation - well founded speculation, probably correct speculation, or just wrong, whatever.
* At least, that’s my understanding.
Offer up suffering as well for the poor souls. I have lived over two years with some level of almost constant pain during my waking hours from degenerative arthritis in both knees. I don’t say that for pity, because it is consoling to have so much to offer to help poor souls atone. Without consolation, persevence might be in doubt. I am thankful that I have a high tolerance for pain, and can still hobble around with a cane. At 84,I will persevere so long as God gives me the strength.
Heaven hell and purgatory! I suspect that at death we meet sometimes for the first time that Being Truth and Love that we call God. I have my doubts though that even the most hardened sinner will not see his life as it appears to God in that big picture we are incapable of seeing here. Seeing his whole life he will certainly regret that he was not able to know love and serve his creator during his life but he will too understand the part he has played in God’s plan and forgive himself too for his inability to understand this while he was alive. A judgmental punishing God is not how I see our creator.
It’s not God that will send our souls to purgatory or hell, it’s us. Only a pure soul can be in Heaven. Most of us will need to be purified. From all the spiritual reading I’ve done, God gives us his mercy while we are alive. We have to accept his mercy and repent now. When we die, it’s too late. Then we have to deal with His Justice. God is both mercy and justice. Let us all pray for the departed and never forget them because one day it’s going to be us.
Susan Tassone is known as “the purgatory lady”, as she has written many books on this subject and has the blessing from Pope John Paul II. Google her books and learn even more.
Catechism of the Catholic Church (CCC) should also be reffered to on the Church’s teaching of the four last things….death, judgment, heaven, hell.
Happy Saint Nicholas’ Day!
Another great article from Jimmy Akin. It’s due to men like him that I remain a Catholic to this very day.
When I read about Purgatory it sounds like it is similar to what takes place in what St Teresa of Avila calls the Sixth Mansions(Spiritual Betrothal/Prayer of Conforming Union) in her book “Interior Castle.”
It looks to me that the death of Jesus was not sufficient to pay the price in full for our sins. That’s why we need purgatory.
I have recently received two booklets about Purgatory: THE SECRETS OF PURGATORY & AN UNPUBLISHED MANUSCRIPT ON PURGATORY (available from Spirits Daily) and both of these should wake everybody up, not only on our own failings of our daily lives; the things that we did/say and the things that we didn’t do/say, but also what is awaiting for us when we take our last breath. Because someone might appear to be “holy” & another might appear to be a “scandal”, doesn’t cut it in the Eyes of God. Please not only pray for these poor souls, but also have Masses said for yourselves & those that are part of your lives; also, try to do the Stations of the Cross when you go to Mass. (you could even do them at home) for the poor souls. It won’t hurt you, but will do amazingly good for you and the poor souls that need our help. Thanks again, Jimmy!! Now, if we could get our Priests to speak up about this once & awhile, it would be great. +JMJ+
Promises of Jesus to those who pray and meditate with the Hours of the Passion of Our Lord Jesus Christ:
«My daughter, as recompense for having written the Hours of my Passion, for each word you have written I will give you a kiss - a soul.»
And I: « My love, this is for me; and what will You give to those who will do them?»
And Jesus: «If they do them together with Me and with my own Will, I will also give them a soul for each word they will recite, because the greater or lesser effectiveness of these Hours of my Passion is in the greater or lesser union that they have with Me. By doing them with my Will, the creature hides within my Volition, and since it is my Volition that acts, I can produce all the goods I want, even through one word alone; and this, for each time you will do them.»
Our Lord to SOG Luisa Piccarreta..
Posted by Edward San on Wednesday, Dec 7, 2011 11:22 AM (EST):
“It looks to me that the death of Jesus was not sufficient to pay the price in full for our sins. That’s why we need purgatory.”
We are still sinners and in need of purification before entering the perfection of Heaven and the presence of God for all eternity. Jesus’ death made possible this forgiveness and was sufficient, but we have to accept that forgiveness. Otherwise, free will is negated. I’m sure this is addressed in the CCC—can someone help me with the relevant references?
@ Edward San—
“It looks to me that the death of Jesus was not sufficient to pay the price in full for our sins. That’s why we need purgatory.”
We are still sinners and in need of purification before entering the perfection of Heaven and the presence of God for all eternity. Jesus’ death made possible this forgiveness and was sufficient, but we have to accept that forgiveness. Otherwise, free will is negated. I’m sure this is addressed in the CCC—can someone help me with the relevant references?
Margarett RBC- I don’t see how purgatory makes any sense since Jesus paid the full price for our sins and His blood cleanses from all sin. What need of purgatory that Jesus did not accomplish?
“It looks to me that the death of Jesus was not sufficient to pay the price in full for our sins. That’s why we need purgatory.”
The Death of Jesus is more than sufficient to pay the price in full for our sins—it restored the chance for Heaven for all people since the beginning of time. However, anyone can say they believe in Jesus but more is required. Jesus drove this point home with His parable of separating the lambs and the goats at the end of time.
That’s why we need to constantly focus on the Gift of His Passion and His Death and His Self-Sacrifice to help us grow spiritually in love of God and neighbor —with the ultimate goal of avoiding Purgatory.
It makes no sense to require a purgatory since Christ the paid the price in full and His blood cleanses us from sin. Both of these points are made by the apostles themselves. To say there is a need for purgatory would mean these 2 points made by the apostles are not true. See Col 2:13-14 and I John 1:7
Edward San wrote:
It makes no sense to require a purgatory since Christ the paid the price in full and His blood cleanses us from sin. Both of these points are made by the apostles themselves. To say there is a need for purgatory would mean these 2 points made by the apostles are not true. See Col 2:13-14 and I John 1:7
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By this same line of reasoning you could also deny the existence of Hell.
One can only pass along the truth—not be drawn into endless discussions about it. Often we argue on behalf or against something that we dont fully understand when it comes to Purgatory - and yet people that went before us to be judged by Jesus now wait on our prayers and sacrifices in faith to get to Heaven—and yet they eagerly suffer in silence amidst His Mercy—patiently waiting for them to help in their deliverance.
How often do we seek the truth for real, should we be challenged to do so? This is a powerful way that Gods Truths will be revealed to curious and hungry souls:
Place your trust solely in Jesus for real, not people, or only scripture. If you really, truly want the truth on such important Mysteries, walk the walk and learn and sincerely and regularly pray the Divine Chaplet of Mercy, and think often of Our Lord’s Passion and Suffering on the Way of the Sorrows while doing so. It will lead you directly to the foot of the Cross, to the Truth Himself who we always seem to think we know well but later find out that we didn’t know Him well enough: Our Blessed Lord. He is always waiting there for us in this Mystery, should we choose to sincerely seek Him - guaranteed. God Bless.
http://www.ewtn.com/Devotionals/mercy/index.htm
Jesus’s Passion and Death restored the way to God in Heaven, broken in the Garden of Eden. He gave us Our Blessed Lord, who gives us all types of gifts to help us find our way to His Cross to know all truths; even questions about Purgatory, or Praying to Mary and/or the Saints as our intercessors to God. The rest is up to us. Seek and you will find.
http://thedivinemercy.org/message/acts/
GregB- you cannot deny the existence of hell since Jesus taught it and it is mentioned in connection with the unsaved. There are many passages of Scripture that are explicit about it while there are none for purgatory.
Purgatory is real, we can help our loved ones and people we don’t even know with our prayers or sacrifices. They are good and pleasing to God because we take a step toward faith, and the good they do will be revealed to us after we pass on. “Store up riches in Heaven”.
Offer up a mass for the Holy Souls or your loved ones as often as possible, even if you are not Catholic. They continue to live on in a different, new world of pure Holiness & Justice and may need them to get to heaven and are hoping you will help them. Place your faith in God, He never wastes it.
“If you are to go with your opponent before a magistrate, make an effort to settle the matter on the way; otherwise your opponent will turn you over to the judge, and the judge will turn you over to the constable, and the constable throw you in into prison. I say to you, you will not be released until you have paid the last penny.” (Luke 12:58-59)
“And whoever speaks a word against the Son of Man will be forgiven; but whoever speaks against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven, either in this age, or in the age to come.” (Matthew 12:32)
“For other foundation no man can lay, but that which is laid; which is Christ Jesus. Now if any man build upon this foundation, gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble: Every man’s work shall be manifest; for the day of the Lord shall declare it, because it shall be revealed in fire; and the fire shall try every man’s work, of what sort it is. If any man’s work abide, which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward. If any man’s work burn, he shall suffer loss; but he himself shall be saved, yet so as by fire.” (1 Cor 3 11-15)
In Heaven everyone has to be holy:
“There shall not enter into it any thing defiled, or that worketh abomination or maketh a lie, but they that are written in the book of life of the Lamb.” (Rev 21:27)
“Follow peace with all men, and holiness: without which no man shall see God.” (Hebrews 12:14)
I’m not entirely holy just yet, how about you? So, if only the holy ones enter Heaven and I’ve never met a person who was truly holy enough to enter Heaven, is EVERYONE damned?
This is why there’s a Purgatory.
Edward San wrote:
GregB- you cannot deny the existence of hell since Jesus taught it and it is mentioned in connection with the unsaved. There are many passages of Scripture that are explicit about it while there are none for purgatory.
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How do we distinguish between the people who are cleansed of their sins by the Cross of Christ and those who go to Hell?
There are passages in Scripture that support the idea of Purgatory. One is 2 Maccabees 12:43-46. Two others that are cited are Matthew 12:32 and 1 Corinthians 3:11-15. All you have to do is Google “Purgatory” and you will find Wikipedia, Catholic Encyclopedia, and Catholic Answers references covering Purgatory. You can also Google “praying for the dead” to find more references. You will see that praying for the dead goes way back.
Gregg- I don’t know how you conclude the passages you give support the idea of purgatory in the least. For example, take 2 Maccabees 12:43-46. How is a superstitious belief (praying for the dead since it is not taught in the OT proper) that Judas who was a commander of an army the foundation for purgatory? Just because someone may pray for the dead does not mean purgatory exist. Also just because people may have believed things for a long time does not mean its true.
“Settle matters quickly with your adversary who is taking you to court. Do it while you are still together on the way, or your adversary may hand you over to the judge, and the judge may hand you over to the officer, and you may be thrown into prison. Truly I tell you, you will not get out until you have paid the last penny”.
Jesus - Circa 33 AD.
Out of where does Our Blessed Lord refer .. one does not get out of hell if placed there in God’s Justice for eternity. But God is also Merciful, and who is both the Just Judge and Merciful Saviour…what could He be referring to?
Edward San: “I don’t know how you conclude the passages you give support the idea of purgatory in the least. For example, take 2 Maccabees 12:43-46. How is a superstitious belief (praying for the dead since it is not taught in the OT proper) that Judas who was a commander of an army the foundation for purgatory? Just because someone may pray for the dead does not mean purgatory exist. Also just because people may have believed things for a long time does not mean its true.”
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You can apply this logic to argue against anything in Scripture then… How is a superstitious belief in Christ’s Resurrection a foundation for being saved? Just because the early Christians believe Christ rose from the dead then for a long time, doesn’t mean it’s true now…
Christ’s sacrifice only offered the means of salvation to those who accept it. The souls in purgatory are saved. However they must be perfected before entering into Heaven befor the presense of God. In other words they are unclean and the stains of sin that afflict them as it does us (believing in Christ doesn’t stop you from sinning, those are a result of your own free choices and sinful dispositions). Nothing unclean comes before God or else God’s perfect holiness would destroy them. Read the Old Testament and everything it points towards. Furthermore there, is what is called the bosom of Abraham, where the OT Fathers, patriarchs and Prophets and good souls went awaiting Christ’s sacrifice before entering heaven. Christ also speaks of this place in His parable. And as others have mentioned, we are to make complete atonement for our sins and pay the price to the last penny. There are also numerous confirmations of Purgatory existing. From the lives of saints, through the apparitions of the Blessed Virgin Mary. And you would know all this were you not a sola-scripture Protestant who believes a doctrine not found and contradicted in the Bible that you received and altered from the Catholic Church in the first place.
The point is this. We must be perfect before going to heaven. In other words we must of our own free will and through suffering and hardship work to free ourselves of our sinful dispositions that make us sin. We must break with it. If we do not accomplish this in our lifetime, then we will have to be purified as through fire as the Apostle writes in scripture after we die. THe souls in purgatory who have beheld God do all gladly undergo this time because they have sen od for themselves and will want to be made clean before they enter heaven. They understand this and even if offered a second life again on earth will refuse it and remain in purgatory because indeed they are saved and would not risk another life on Earth and risk sin and hell.
On top of that Christ’s sacrifice, represented to us in the Eucharist and in the sacraments of the Catholic Church and its provision of indulgences from the immense treasures of heaven that God provides help absolve one of sins, and strengthen them to accomplish this in this life and on the verge of death.
Christ offers us salvation through his death. But in sinning we throw away His gift every time and must then work to become one who is capable of receiving and protecting and cherishing that gift of salvation without ever losing it or trowing it away again. As the apostle warns in Scripture, to fearfully seek out our salvation. If being saved was as easy as the Protestants make it out to be, then why do the Scriptures and the Apostles give stern and fearful warnings to hold fast to what we are given?
Purgatory is also an example of God’s mercy that extends beyond death for those who fail to accomplish holding onto their gift of salvation and achieve spiritual cleanliness in their life. Truly no one can say God is never merciful.
What purgatory shows is that the death of Christ and His shed blood was not sufficient to completely save us. It is a denial of Colossians 2:13-14 which says-
“13 When you were dead in your transgressions and the uncircumcision of your flesh, He made you alive together with Him, having forgiven us all our transgressions,
14 having canceled out the certificate of debt consisting of decrees against us, which was hostile to us; and He has taken it out of the way, having nailed it to the cross.
It also denies what John wrote in I John 1:7-8
“7 but if we walk in the Light as He Himself is in the Light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus His Son cleanses us from all sin.
8 If we say that we have no sin, we are deceiving ourselves and the truth is not in us.
9 If we confess our sins, He is faithful and righteous to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.”
The other problem is that the Lord Jesus never spoke of it. To think that something this important and universal in scope was not mentioned by Him shows He knew nothing of this.
Our Lord did speak of it. Sadly, you’ve just closed your heart to that part of the Word. “He who has ears to hear, let him hear”.
Chapter and verse where Jesus spoke of purgatory please.
Many passages from the Holy Scriptures supporting Purgatory have already been listed on the site. Obviously the scriptures are exactly that, very Holy, but not the only tool that God uses to develop faith in Him. It is the foundation yes, but we need to try to search deeper inward—to have an open mind on things that may be from God and not be limited in our belief because others tell us that these are our limits. Isnt this what the Pharisees and Scribes did when counseling the people of their time? And did it not draw the wrath of God Himself in the form of Jesus?
A few examples beyond scriptures. A saint, Padre Pio who passed away in 1968, was a constant witness to both Good and evil while alive. And, he often spoke of souls from Purgatory appearing to him thanking him for saying masses and freeing them from purgatory. The Catholic Church does not teach belief in Padre Pio or the miracles that happened through him - true - but why not at least look into his shell of a life in search of the pearl?
Jesus made many references to His Mercy when in the flesh on earth. He has appeared to many saints since then - in visions. Including St. Faustina, many times, who was His ‘Secretary of Mercy’. She brought Jesus’s Message of Mercy to the world. In that message, Jesus speaks of the Holy Souls in Purgatory and how we can help them. I’m pretty sure one won’t find a reference to St. Faustina in the Holy Scriputes, she died in 1938. But, does that mean that Jesus could never have appeared to her because it is not recorded in the Holy Scriptures? That He is not allowed to appear to people after His Death, Resurrection, and Ascention into Heaven? Certainly not, the earth is His Footstool—He can do whatever He pleases in His Quest to save souls—those living or those who have died but not yet made it to Heaven.
I suppose my primary point is that Jesus’ mission didn’t just stop in Holy Scriptures - that His Mission on earth would not be forever be trapped in the lines of Holy Scriptures. He is in the Past, Present, and the Future. And He is working hard even this evening to draw each of us further into His Light.
When we stop at Scriptures only, we place limits on ourselves in deepening Our Faith in Him. The Lord has zero limits on His Love, Goodness, and Mercy. His Sacrafice and Message of Good News has never nor will it ever be limited to the last line of the Bible.
There have been many previous posts containing the biblical references. The larger point Im making is that Jesus has not been limited to proclaiming His Message of Love, Goodness, and Mercy to the world simply because the last line of the Bible had been written. There is much more to it. He has appeared to many saints - in visions since then. And has spoken of His Message of Mercy to the world - for our generation and many to come. More specifically to St. Faustina, who died in 1938. Im pretty sure that you wont find any references to this holy nun in Holy Scriptures. Or, to Padre Pio who received thanks from souls on their way to heaven when God released them from the pains of Purgatory because of his intense prayers and sacrafices for them. But because such stories are not in the Holy Book are we not to even consider the example and message given to us? Is this not an example of a form of denial of Our Lord’s message? He challenges us to deepen our faith in Him constantly—through the scriptures, attending Mass or Church on Sundays, Eucharistic Adoration, Devotions, kindness to neighbor, the Rosary, the Divine Chaplet of Mercy, the Commandments, and praying for the Holy Souls, just to name a few. Purgatory is in the midst of all these because God has endless Mercy for each of us to help us get to Heaven, even if we are not quite qualified when we die - and all center on one thing and lead to one place - the Foot of Our Lord’s Cross.
If what you say is true, then why don’t Catholics empty purgatory out with the prayer of St Gertrude?
Prayer of St. Gertrude the Great
Our Lord dictated the following prayer to St. Gertrude the Great to release 1,000 Souls from Purgatory each time it is said.
“Eternal Father, I offer Thee the Most Precious Blood of Thy Divine Son, Jesus, in union with the masses said throughout the world today, for all the holy souls in Purgatory, for sinners everywhere, for sinners in the universal church, those in my own home and within my family. Amen.”
http://olrl.org/pray/stgertrude.shtml
St. Gertrude’s life was the mystic life of the Cloister – a Benedictine nun. She meditated on the Passion of Christ, which many times brought a flood of tears to her eyes. She did many penances and Our Lord appeared to her many times. She had a tender love for the Blessed Virgin and was very devoted to the suffering souls in Purgatory. She died in 1334. Her feast day is November 16th.
Approval and recommendation (sgd.) M. Cardinal Pahiarca at Lisbon, Portugal, on March 4, 1936.
Yeah, agreed Edward. I’m familiar with the prayer that you speak of and I’ve said it many times, but certainly not enough. I was disciplined for awhile (maybe) a couple of weeks but then laziness, mind-wandering, and human nature seem to set in. And, my sin is much worse for not doing enough for the Souls because I believe in Purgatory. And I guess I have been guily of questioning whether or not Jesus would accept that prayer and it’s reward from someone like me compared to a great Saint.
These days, I say it when the priest elevates the Host and the Blessed Chalice when at Mass. I seem to feel more comfortable at that time because I strongly believe at that moment, I can help them the most. Only twice a week, compared to saying it much more frequently as I could. I think I found that I also lack the discipline to keep up such a pace, I’m not spirtually strong enough.
Jesus instructs to say the Chaplet unceasingly. I cant do that for the same reasons. However, my goal is once a day and sometimes I acheieve that. But, I also believe the Lord appreciates these efforts, though they be weaker than they should be. You’re point is well taken, thanks for it.
@Catholic who wrote: “—it restored the chance for Heaven for all people since the beginning of time.” Your comment is false. There is nothing biblical about death providing a second chance for those die absent of Christ.
@ Lector at Mass
“Your comment is false. There is nothing biblical about death providing a second chance for those die absent of Christ.”
Can you provide a little more detail as to why you believe the statement to be false? As well as your beliefs regarding Purgatory, which I don’t know for certain if you are referring to by the words ‘second chance’.
@Catholic: If one has rejected Christ on this side there is no second chance on the other side for those who did not believe. Jesus said “He who does not believe has already been condemned.”
Only the souls that love God go to heaven.
Remember the two great commandments, “Jesus said to him: Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with thy whole heart, and with thy whole soul, and with thy whole mind.” (Matt. 22:37)
Souls who choose not to love God (and neighbor) go to hell. (Matt 25:41-46)
We are commanded by Jesus to be perfect as our heavenly Father is perfect… tough commandment… but Jesus teaches us how to do it.
When we leave this life loving God but not perfectly we must be purged of everything that keeps our love from being perfect.
Our selfishness is our enemy and must be purged. “Do penance.” is pronounced no less than 18 times in the New Testament. “Deny yourself” is quickly forgotten from “take up your cross and follow Me.”
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PURGATORY is the fire of Divine Love wherein a soul desiring to become perfect plunges self therein and is purified. We pray, “Come Holy Spirit, enkindle in us the fire of Divine Love….” We see the Sacred Hearts of Jesus and Mary ablaze with the fire of Divine Love and think nothing about it.
We too must be generating Divine Love. When we are perfected in Love and Truth, we will be one with God, in, with and through Jesus. We will love as God loves ablaze with fire of Divine Love.
Our very fear of Purgatory, our repulsion of Purgatory proves that we NEED it because our love is not perfect.
Ama Deum Primo / Love God First of All
+ Art
@ Lector at Mass.
“If one has rejected Christ on this side there is no second chance on the other side for those who did not believe. Jesus said “He who does not believe has already been condemned.”
You still haven’t clarified whether or not you are referring to Purgatory as the ‘second chance’ you mentioned. Ok, I’ll make some assumtions.
I assume you mean someone who has heard the word of Jesus but completely rejected Him in life and at death, correct? If so, I think I understand that but how does that tie into my previous comment which you described as false?
I wrote the following in responding to a previous post:
“The Death of Jesus is more than sufficient to pay the price in full for our sins—it restored the chance for Heaven for all people since the beginning of time. However, anyone can say they believe in Jesus but more is required. Jesus drove this point home with His parable of separating the lambs and the goats at the end of time.”
What is false about it? People who died afer the fall of Adam and Eve did not go to Heaven immediately because the Covenant between God and human beings had been broken. Jesus delivered souls who were judged as good to Heaven (those living afer Adam but dying before His death) after His Passion and Death. Where were they all that time? Certainly not in hell.
We know about Jesus because we lived after His Passion and Death. We can either embrace Our Lord’s Example and Message and walk in His light or we dont. If we reject Our Lord all the way to our death, and behave as such, we have made our choice, there is no ‘second chance’. Same for those who say they believe in Jesus but instead refuse to change their ways.
As Catholics, if we do believe and cling to our belief in Jesus during our lives but die with veniel (less serious) sins on our soul, we may be delivered to Purgatory to pay for those sins in God’s Judgement before we make it to Heaven - solely due to God’s Mercy in His Decision not to send us to hell. If this is the ‘second chance’ you are referring to, or such a situation, what have I written that you believe to be false?
Jesus Passion & Death opened the gates of Heaven and reconciled God with mankind again. Therefore, it does give us a chance to make it to Heaven - should we wisely choose to follow Jesus and the narrow path—His Passion and Death will lead the way. Whether we use the grace that God gives us along the path in our faith is entirely up to us because He also respects our free will.
@ Lector at Mass
In the previous post I wrote:
“The Death of Jesus is more than sufficient to pay the price in full for our sins—it restored the chance for Heaven for all people since the beginning of time. However, anyone can say they believe in Jesus but more is required. Jesus drove this point home with His parable of separating the lambs and the goats at the end of time”.
You described this statement as false and haven’t really explained in greater detail what you mean. So, let I’ll make this assumption: if the point that you are making is that there is no such thing as purgatory at all (when referring to a ‘second chance’), regardless of whether people believe or don’t believe in Jesus, that comment is false.
@Catholic, I made no comment re purgatory earlier. If you have died having rejected Christ *in this life* you have no second chance in the afterlife. Purgatory is viewed as a purification process for believers. It is not a second chance opportunity for those having rejected Christ when alive on earth.
Only souls who love God go to heaven.
Remember the two great commandments, “Jesus said to him: Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with thy whole heart, and with thy whole soul, and with thy whole mind.” (Matt. 22:37)
Souls who choose not to love God (and neighbor) go to hell. (Matt 25:41-46)
We are commanded by Jesus to be perfect as our heavenly Father is perfect… tough commandment… but Jesus teaches us how to do it.
When we leave this life loving God but not perfectly we must be purged of everything that keeps our love from being perfect.
Our selfishness is our enemy and must be purged. “Do penance.” is pronounced no less than 18 times in the New Testament. “Deny yourself” is quickly forgotten from “take up your cross and follow Me.”
Only the souls who love God go to heaven.
Remember the two great commandments, “Jesus said to him: Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with thy whole heart, and with thy whole soul, and with thy whole mind.” (Matt. 22:37)
Souls who choose not to love God (and neighbor) go to hell. (Matt 25:41-46)
We are commanded by Jesus to be perfect as our heavenly Father is perfect… tough commandment… but Jesus teaches us how to do it.
When we leave this life loving God but not perfectly we must be purged of everything that keeps our love from being perfect.
Our selfishness is our enemy and must be purged. We avoid suffering and penance is avoided seemingly at all costs. “Do penance.” is pronounced no less than 18 times in the New Testament. “Deny yourself” is quickly forgotten from “take up your cross and follow Me.”
UNDERSTANDING PURGATORY
PURGATORY is the temporary state of separation from perfect union with God (heaven). The fire of Purgatory is the fire of Divine Love wherein a soul desiring to become perfect plunges self therein.
We pray, “Come Holy Spirit, enkindle in us the fire of Divine Love….” We see pictures and statues of the Sacred Hearts of Jesus and Mary ablaze with the fire of Divine Love. This fire symbolizes living the Will of God and loving as God loves.
Divine Love is WILLED by the Divine Will.
We too must be generating Divine Love. When we are perfected in Love and Truth, we will be one with God, in, with and through Jesus. We will love as God loves ENKINDLED AND ABLAZE with fire of Divine Love. We suffer the fire of Divine Love because we are not generating it with, in and through Jesus and Mary. They are not burned by the Fire.
The very fear of Purgatory, the repulsion by the thought of suffering Purgatory proves that we NEED it because our love is not perfect. Our Love for God and neighbor must be as perfect as Jesus’ Love. Rush to Purgatory… rush to perfection of Love and Truth!
BTW, if we are perfect in Love and Truth, we will go directly to heaven and bypass Purgatory. If we do the required acts of penance and Works of Mercy, AND have no selfish attachments our love will be perfected on earth and we will have no need of Purgatory.
Then there is total entrustment to the Immaculate Heart of Mary (St Louis de Montfort), the Rosary and Scapular, frequent Sacraments and indulgences. God is merciful and gives us every opportunity to become saints.
There are only God, faithful Angels and Saints in heaven. The positions of God and Angels are already taken….
Ama Deum Primo / Love God First of All
@ Lector at Mass.
“I made no comment re purgatory earlier. If you have died having rejected Christ *in this life* you have no second chance in the afterlife. Purgatory is viewed as a purification process for believers. It is not a second chance opportunity for those having rejected Christ when alive on earth.”
I agree with your comment. However, I still dont quite understand your original comment where you say what I had written previously was false. I never wrote anything about receiving a second chance or defining purgatory as a second chance. Oh well..
@Catholic: Here you go. You wrote yesterday re the Death of Jesus, “—it restored the chance for Heaven for all people since the beginning of time.” Referring to **all people since the beginning of time** is an inaccurate, unbiblical statement. True, the Lord desires that “no man should perish” —yet we know many have and will perish based upon the gospel of Jesus. Willful disobedience and sin are a rejection of Jesus as Lord. While NT believers look back at Messiah having come, OT believers looked forward to the coming of Messiah.
@ Lector at Mass
Ah, not ‘all’ people since the beginning of time. Only those souls dying in God’s Good Graces after the fall fo Adam up until Jesus’s Passion and those living on earth after. Those dying in sin before Jesus came to earth were not saved so ‘all’ is inaccurate. I stand corrected.
Is it a sin to pray for the redemption of the souls of Judas Iscariot and Pontius Pilate? I am alluding to two of the more tortured souls in the New Testament. I know it sounds naive but I have my thoughts on this; however I’d like to see how others view it. Please don’t be judgmental on me, curious mind just wants to know. Thank you and may God Bless us all.
Scripture leaves no doubt that Judas is in hell, but of Pilate there is no comment that I know. Praying for a soul in hell only causes them more suffering not less. Their punishment is fixed. http://bible.cc/mark/14-21.htm AND http://bible.cc/matthew/26-24.htm.
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