Did Fr. Albert Cutié ever really believe that the Eucharist becomes the body and blood of Christ.? As a Priest was this extraordinary miracle lost to him.? Is there anything temporal worth discarding so noble a calling.?
There can be no acceptable justification for his decision. The more the Protestants and secular world love him the more he should be convicted in his conscience toward God.

Thirteenth, Fr. Cutié made a vow voluntarily, then broke it. Celibacy for him was not just some philosophical principle he could decide no longer to uphold.

Also, FYI, you can use the keyboard command Alt+130 to get é.

Jimmy and everyone:

You, Jimmy,  asked for comments at the end of blog, above, about Father Cutié, who is now an Episcopal priest, rector of the Episcopal Church of the Resurrection in Biscayne Park, Fl., husband and father.

Some of you may know me from my extensive postings on the comments section of “Bishop Strips Abortion Hospital of Catholic Status!”—especially in response to Anne Rice and eventually discussions with “Carl”. 

I’ve spent nearly 30 years as a priest, as a parish priest, as an academic in universities, as a chaplain and as a clinical social worker.

First I would like correct a misconception of Robyn’s above.  As a diocesan priest, rather than a member of a Religious community, Cutié never took vows.  Diocesan priests, also called “Secular” priests, do not take vows.  Those of us in Religious Communites, take the three vows of Religion: poverty, chastity and obedience to our religious superior.  Some Monastic religious orders—like Benedictine communities—take additional vows such as “stability” which means that such Religious commit themselves to remain in the monastery of their profession until death. Jesuits, members of The Society of Jesus, after many years in the Society,  take final vows—including a special 4th. vow of obedience to the Successor of Peter in regard to the missions according to the apostolic letters and the Constitutions of the Society of Jesus. 

These special vows, that members of some Religious communities make reflect the special charisms and characters of the particular communities. But as I said above, “secular priests” like Father Cutié do not take vows at their ordinations.  Instead “secular priests” make promises at the time of their ordination.  They do make a promise to their Ordinary, that is, their Bishop at the time of their ordination, to obey him as their spiritual leader for a particular diocese, and they also make a promise to remain celibate.  The promise of celibacy is not the same as the vow of chastity.
 
While I have maintained my vows of chastity throughout my time in my religious community, I know many, many men in the Priesthood who were very devoted to preaching the Gospel and administering the Sacraments but who had a constant struggle with celibacy or for those in consecrated Religious life, chastity. 

I firmly believe, and my experience dictates, that most of us live out our vows of chastity or, in the case of our brothers in the diocesan priesthood, their promises of celibacy, but there are a sizable number of priests, brothers and sisters and nuns, who find themselves unable to live out the vows of chastity or in the case of diocesan priests, their promise of celibacy—and we’re not talking with minors here despite the recent scandal in the United States and continuing scandal around the world of sexual abuse of children.  I want to be really clear here, the vast majority of the men and women in Religious communities who struggle with this are absolutely committed to most of the tenants of our Faith and, in other areas of life, make fine priests, brothers, nuns and sisters.

I know it’s easy to demonize someone like former Catholic priest, now ordained as an Episcopal priest, Father Albert Cutié.  He was well known, popular and created a scandal. Had he been a typical diocesan priest or Religious involved in an illicit relationship with an adult, consenting woman, we may never have heard about it.  Any issues that developed would have, hopefully, been carefully and quietly handled by his Ordinary (if diocesan priest) or his Superior in religious life.  He may have been sent to Servants of The Paraclete or Saint Luke’s Institute to deal with his issues; he would have been encouraged to break off the relationship and probably to enter a period of discernment as to whether he should stay in the priesthood.  This is common in these situations.  As a Licensed Clinical Social Worker as well as Priest, I’ve been assigned at times to work with specific priests and brothers dealing with these types of issues and it’s rarely easy.

Those of have seen ALL of my posts (and the recent extended conversation with “Carl”) in the other blog topic can probably tell, I’m not exactly “liberal” in terms of pastoral approach or doctrine, but I did make the important point that ... The Church has a number of practices and non-essential traditions which have been elevated to the level of Sacred Tradition or confused by many people as Sacred Tradition when really some of these are traditions, but not Sacred Traditions.

Sacred Traditions, of course, are those teachings of the Church which, while these may not be explicitly found in Scripture, should be equated with Scripture in authority.

As clergy, I certainly disapprove of what Father Cutié did because of promises he made.  I am extremely sad at the scandal this caused.  It provided another excuse for the media to bash our beloved Church and another chance for the Faithful to struggle and some to waiver.

You mention a number of points that I would normally have discussed and for those who are interested, there’s a pretty good article on the issue by [url=“https://www.americamagazine.org/content/article.cfm?article_id=2564”] John W. O’Malley, S.J., is professor of church history at Weston Jesuit School of Theology in Cambridge, Mass., which was originally published in America Magazine.

I have not read Cutié‘s book and I really have no interest in doing so, but what some see as self-justification may be just that or it may be real reflections on where he was and is spiritually, psychologically and morally.  I suspect that since he’s serving in the Episcopal priesthood, it’s probably a real reflection on his spiritual journey.  I’m willing to accept that.  I suspect that those who see it as “self-serving justification” are probably more conservative Roman Catholics who are rightly offended at his conduct while supposedly a celibate Roman Catholic priest.  I imagine more “liberal” Roman Catholics and our Protestant brothers and sisters might see it as a very meaningful and moving book about his spiritual struggles, challenges of living out the disciplines expected in the Roman Catholic Church, etc.

Over the years, I’ve had good friends, and some former Professors, leave the Roman Catholic priesthood over this issue.  Some now consider themselves “married Roman Catholic priests” who meet informally to celibrate illicit but valid Eucharists and others consider themselves Catholic laymen.  Others have become ordained in The Episcopal Church or are serving as ordained clergy in other Protestant communities and I think some practice no Christian faith at all.

I suppose I respect that Cutié felt he could not honor the promises he made to God and his Bishop at his Roman Catholic ordination.  I suppose I can respect that he struggled with the specific promise to be celibate—which I believe is a special gift to which some of us are called—but I am dismayed that he entered into an immoral and illicit relationship while still functioning as a Roman Catholic priest.  If he found the Church too much at odds with his personal views, he would have been free and more ethical to leave the Roman Catholic priesthood, marry the woman who is now his wife and, if he felt so called, enter the Episcopal priesthood.

In Christ, may His light shine on all of us,

Father George

My knee-jerk reaction would be that the former Fr. Cutié fell in love with celebrity and its trappings long before he fell in love with his paramour. Although I have no outside knowledge of the events outside this blog post, the timeline you document in the beginning certainly lends lends itself to the interpretation. The last place once should be going to reflect deeply on a decision like this is a television interview.

Why didn’t he just leave the priesthood if it was an issue of celibacy?

Oh wait that’s right, it’s not really about celibacy: It’s about his ego and desire to blame the Church for not feeding it.

In your third point did you miss one important fact?  Isn’t it true that although other Catholic rites ordain married men, they do not allow priests to marry after they are ordained?

What Cutie could have done besides schism:
- Repent of fornication and be a better spiritual father
- Leave priesthood, become a layperson in the Church
- Leave priesthood, marry his girlfriend in the Church
- Marry and be ordained in the Eastern Catholic Church
Either way he would still be Catholic!

A bishop should be “making the rounds” with diocesian priests—they’re his responsibilty.
A lot of things could have been different. Unfortunately not so.
If even Fr. Cutie decided to leave the church, he could done it quietly and the Episcopal Church there could have received him quietly as well.

Why is there always such a passionate defense of “struggles” that men or women in religious life have AFTER they’ve seen clear to accept those known sacrifices from the beginning until ... oops! that one time unexpected temptation that may have occurred when they suddenly realize that they are then “no longer the same person they were decades ago when they made that promise/vow”??  These rather “reality show” articles of defense seem to dismiss the real struggles that come with ALL vocations (and life in general for anyone truly maturing in his/her growth) - many realized once such former “promises” are seen as interferences and these new “struggles” (perhaps unrealized as yet) are entered into ... often also discarded when they too become a bit too hard than the former desire would have described them to be. 

The reason you make vows or serious “promises” is just for that reason ... for when the unexpected hardships, tragedies, unexpected sacrifices come along to test those promises/vows.  Again, faithful married life, single life, missionary life, business life, all have their struggles and testings - most esp. in the godless world of life of today.  And you can’t as easily adjust those lives to another backup that allows you to have your cake and eat it too.  If that’s what such “scandals” teach then those who follow such examples (rather than just admitting wrong doing and beginning over) will forever resist maturity and growth and constantly feel they have to defend their ongoing actions.  Consciences do demand some kind of defense of actions that have pricked them!

I am exceptionally weary of adults of any vocation looking for ways to excuse themselves when they break their vows and promises.  Those include baptismal vows and promises made as Catholics, renewed every year at Easter time. I can’t read the gospels and get a vision of Jesus making excuses for us when we fail to ask for help with our difficulties and, instead, excuse ourselves for caving in to our difficulties.

(I am still reeling from the incredibly arrogant comments on the other blog about St. Joseph’s hospital that have judged Bishop Olmstead “in error” without having all of the facts (or refusing to acknowledge all the facts).)

First we must pray for Father Cutie and other priests like him who struggle with celibacy. Lord knows that the majority of married couples struggle with birth control,and most singles struggle with pre-marital sex. The main difference is that priests are held to a higher standard for their choices, because they more closely simulate the Christ and His Church.

Sexulality in our time is at an all time high. You can’t even walk into a grocery or clothing store without seeing many images of near nudity in magazines and posters. Yet somehow, we as laity and priests have to develop a love for Christ and His Church that is stronger then our sexuality impulses.

Without a deep prayer life and intimate relationship with Christ or flesh will struggle against our spirit. Flesh will win out more times then not when confronted, without a deep deep prayer life. In the end only one thing matters…Our faithfullness to Christ, His Church and His Truth. Flesh is opposed to all of these. We must pray harder and seek God’s mercy in these times against the sins of the flesh.

So Cutie is not just a fallen priest but an apostate priest.
God is his judge, and Cutie will have to answer to God for the scandal he has caused.
I’ll just pray for his soul. I’m certainly not going to make him rich by buying his book. What strikes me is the type of narcissism involved in his even writing this book, as if his struggles are so much more important than the quiet struggles of the faithful priests, religious, and lay people who live their Catholic faith despite many obstacles. THEY are the ones we should be reading and writing about. Cutie is always seeking attention. He could have just quietly left the priesthood and sadly, the Church, without trying to make such a public spectacle of it. May God have mercy on his soul.

Your Latin is wrong. not in fragranti, but “in flagrante”
Otherwise in this news I find is nothing to worry about.
Not all men can accept so great a gift as the priesthood-celibacy.

Read what Jesus said to Fr. Steven Scheier at http://www.frtommylane.com/homilies/year_c/lent3.htm.

Fr. Cutie should have voluntary left the priesthood if he cannot keep his vow. It would be the most honorable and right thing to do instead of camouflaging what he is doing as it causes more damage to the church.

@ Rose,
The reason a lot of men make the promises as diocesan priests because in The Church it is the only way to enter the Priesthood.  This is the sad truth.  Years ago, I was the Spiritual Director of a young man who was preparing for diocesan priesthood.  I was selected for this position because I had experience with certain issues that those dealing with his formation thought would be more helpful in helping him through his time of preparation.  In those sessions, it became apparent that the young man had a deep, deep yearning to serve God in the priesthood.  It became clear that, like many of us, he felt “pulled” and could “do nothing else”.  His psychological tests showed he had a great psychological grounding and his spiritual evaluations showed strong evidence of a true call to minister, to preach.  However, as time went on and we got to know each other, it also became clear that this young man had incredible issues with celibacy.  He actually was very attracted to women and eventually admitted he had been in a sexual relationship with one since before he entered the formation process—a fact he had successfully hidden from his psychological evaluators and those dealing with his previous spiritual formation.  He was near the top of his class in seminary and it was thought he would be a model priest. He was in his temporary diaconate when he made me aware of these issues.  He simply could not, would not, break off the relationship and he also wanted it to be kept quiet so he could go on to priesthood—while continuing his sinful conduct. But, the young man left the preparation for the Priesthood and, I discovered two years ago when I ran into him in the during a vacation in another part of the country, has been married to the woman with whom he had been involved, they have 3 children and he is a United Methodist pastor for about 5 years, after being an Insurance Adjuster. His comment about the Church, that it is rules like the disciple of celibacy which is required across the board regardless of whether one has the “calling” to that disciple or not, that leads to many of the sexual scandals that have come to light in recent years and contributes to the Priesthood shortage.

In Christ, may his Light shine on all of us!
Father George

If priesthood is seen as a sort of marriage to the church then this man did the equivalent of cheating on his spouse and, after being caught, left her for his mistress. The bride is left publicly humiliated and their children are now confused and hurt. He gets no more sympathy from me than a person in any other vocation in which a promise of faithfulness has been made. Marriage is hard, too, at times. Does he say we should give up our promise because it becomes difficult? By saying the priesthood is more difficult makes light of the challenges faced by husbands who work to support and protect a family, sometimes in less than desirable circumstances.

“Let he who has not sinned cast the first stone.”

As Catholics we believe that God is not only just, but merciful.
Perhaps even a man that went into Episcopalianism by his own
weakness can be not greatly condemned by the faithful. Anyone
who knows about what celibates may go through cannot condemn
the man.

@ Joshua,

I know my response was long, but apparently you did not read it—and maybe that’s why, but Father Cutié did not TAKE VOWS.  Those of us in Religious communities take the “vows of religion”—poverty, obedience and chastity and sometimes special additional religious vows at the time of our profession. Diocesan priests, like Cutié also known as “secular” priests do not EVER take vows. They make “promises” which, while the average lay person may see as the same, are not under Canon Law and Church teaching.  These “promises” are promise to their Ordinary, that is, their Bishop at the time of their ordination, to obey him as their spiritual leader for a particular diocese, and they also make a promise to remain celibate.  The promise of celibacy is not the same as the vow of chastity.

I do not condone Father Cutié‘s conduct when he was a Roman Catholic priest.  Many of us successfully live out our vows or promises, but I realize many men, who are otherwise excellent priests do not.  While I don’t expect a change from the Curia anytime soon, I would welcome the day when our Church recognizes that celibacy is a special gift to whom some are called, but it may not be universal to all who are otherwise called to Priesthood.

Father George

“Let he who has not sinned cast the first stone.”

Dear father George,

I do not think the Church can change its position. if it
were to make Celibacy optional, almost no one would choose it.
We would have a mess on our hands.

I thought Father George gave a very thoughtful and merciful reflection on Father Cutie’s situation.  While I myself see the definite spiritual benefit to a celibate priesthood, I also understand that we are all humans struggling to follow spiritual ideals.

It would be my hope as a practicing Catholic, that the Magistereum would consider a dual priesthood in the future, one path for celibate priests, and one path for married priests.

Celibacy is indeed a calling and a gift from God.  But we also must remember that God said in Genesis: “it is not good for man to be alone.”

Thank you, thank you
Father George Robert.  reading this article and your post here certainly gives me a much better understanding of this whole situation. I remember reading about it when the story first broke….  all I can say is.. we should not judge.. we can’t judge , That’s Gods place.. all we should do is pray ( pray for Fr. Cutie and those affected in a negative way by this whole thing) and educate our selves, learn all about our Catholic faith.

According to scripture, I’m not supposed to judge the priest. Let’s just say I’d rather buy a book about the struggles of a priest who is actually trying to stick to his vows, rather than one that merely documents a departure.

I’m not worried about “damage” caused by an individual priest publishing about his journey; I’m more worried about the system-endemic crimes committed by clergy against children. (1) The damage caused to the Church by child abuse over decades and (2) “violent” secularism are the problems of our day.

Father George,
I take issue with your statement:

I imagine more “liberal” Roman Catholics and our Protestant brothers and sisters might see it as a very meaningful and moving book about his spiritual struggles, challenges of living out the disciplines expected in the Roman Catholic Church, etc.

as if liberal catholics were more educated, open, creative, etc. I myself am an artist and a writer, as well as a cathedral priest with strong traditional leanings. Traditionalism does not equate with conservatism. There are conservative Catholics who hate Latin. I am not condemning of Cutie but I also think you are right about his psychology.

“He who is without sin among us, let him cast the first stone.”  My prayers are with Fr. Cutie!  and I beleive Celibacy should be optional!!

What do we think?

Well, I for one think that the discipline of celibacy is _incredibly_ annoying. Jimmy may be right when he says that doing away with it might not actually be as prudent as it sometimes appears, and he’s certainly right that a wholesale and sudden change of that nature right now would most likely be catastrophic. Doesn’t stop the status quo from being annoying, though.

Fr. Cutie is a sinner…as are we all. From what I’ve seen so far, I find no ground on which to condemn him as somehow especially unworthy. He wasn’t, as some have done, preying on the weak and innocent. He wasn’t _intentionally_ creating a public scandal by his sins. And when a public scandal occurred despite his intentions, he seems to have acted as quickly and reasonably as anyone could expect, to minimize the harm it did to the Church.

I haven’t read his book. I don’t know what it says. I do know enough about the publishing business that I will not, in advance of reading the book, try to draw even preliminary conclusions about the state of the writer’s soul based on the content of the publisher’s press release. (Remember. The publisher is not concerned with our souls…or at least, not nearly as concerned as they are with the book’s sales. Stoking a scandal can be an effective way to generate sales.)

But in advance of reading the book, I’ll say this…I’m not sure, given the specific facts of the case, that Fr. Cutie could have remained in the Church without prolonging and exacerbating the scandal, even if he’d managed to successfully cease his relationship with the woman in question. And if he didn’t have a course in front of him in which he could be reasonably assured that even inside the Church, he wouldn’t be giving scandal, then I will not and can not condemn him for leaving.

The Catholic Church has “The Fullness of Fath”...as a priest, that should have been his main teaching point when asked questions from other denominations. As he left the priesthood, he should have sought ways to still serve the Church in a Lay capacity. By taking a position at a denominational church, he is living a lie….or that part of his instruction was cookie cutter Catholicism too.
Dennis in San Antonio

If people would read more carefully before they respond to another’s comment when they seem to disagree, they would realize that it was not Latin but Mexican Spanish “in fraganti” that was referrenced.

Fr. George, I read your first post carefully and found it meaningful, informed and respectful.  However, after reading your second post about the seminarian who carried on in a sexual relationship, and then left and became a Methodist minister, I am astonished that we Catholics seem to be missing the bigger problem.  These men lack faith!  If their belief and faith in the Catholic church and her teachings, especially that of the great miracle of the Eucharist is so weak or non-existent, that they would leave mother church for a watered-down heretical sect, we have a much bigger problem concerning the formation of young men for priesthood.  How did these guys slip through the cracks?  Come on folks, I don’t have a pastoral degree or background in psychological evalutations, but I can speak with a man for about ten minutes and know if he is a serious Catholic who would rather die than turn his back on Jesus in the Eucharist!  Sometimes I think the Church relies way too much on “experts” in these matters.

Excellent article.. A lot to be learned from this piece. I can’t wait for the next one!

Fr. Cutie has done all the damage he can and should now fade into oblivion but unfortunately for the public he has become accustomed to the limelight so we have to put up with his popping up now and then to remind us of his indiscretion.  Please Lord, shield us from these misguided souls.

A comment on all of the admonitions against judging:  We are called, by God, through the ten commandments to judge behaviors and actions.  This is not the same as judging inner motivations and intentions - i.e., judging the person.
What parent does not judge, and discipline, his child’s behaviors precisely because he loves his child.

Sadly, Fr Cutie’s public life got the best of him.  Like many who attain some kind of power, he became addicted to the adulation and publicity and came to think that the norms of his priestly calling were only optional. 

I do think that there are three important lessons from this incident.  First, the bishops of the Catholic Church MUST get a firm grip on how to effectively manage scandal (of whatever kind) in a clearly Christian way. 

Second, Catholics must understand the Church’s teaching on priesthood and celibacy.  The Roman rite ordains unmarried men to the priesthood.  After their ordination, they are not allowed to marry.  Married ex-priests want the right to marry AFTER ordination, an act that the Christian Church has never allowed.  The Eastern Catholic (and Orthodox) Churches ordain married and unmarried men to the priesthood, but after ordination, they are not allow to (re-)marry.  Bishops in the Eastern and Wester Churches must be unmarried.

Third, the Church should prudently facilitate the training of married men who have a calling to priesthood. Roman-rite married men who have a calling to the priesthood should be allowed to change rites and pursue ordination in an Eastern rite without impediment.

Personally, I don’t advocate relaxing the celibacy rule for Roman priests, allowing for exceptions of former married Protestant clergy who convert to the Church and pursue Catholic priesthood with the support of their bishops.  A Greek Orthodox priest friend of mine said that the Roman Church just can’t deal with the prospect of the wife of a married priest having an affair, or the son/daughter of a married priest getting arrested for drug dealing, or the daughter of the priest getting pregnant out of wedlock.  You know how well we handle scandal!

I recently read Saint Augustine’s Treatise “On Rebuke and Grace”. The later third of the document goes over “perserverence”.  Perserverence in faith is a gift of God. Augustine points out that “unscrutable” are the ways of God and we don’t know why some people are given the grace of perserverence in their faith and others not, but none-the-less, he points out that it is a grace and the people that DO receive the gift of perserverence he calls part of the “elect”.  No one likes to hear that not everyone is given the gift of perserverence or that some are not of the “elect”, but that is what he writes. I have re-read it trying to discern. You can find it online.

Father Cutie was and is a showman.He is least concerned of anything other than that.Not Cutie,but Cute could be a better name for him.

I am fairly sure that those that are married and become priests here in the US can not serve as pastors, only associates.  I agree that Fr. Cutie fell in love with bein a celebrity, too much in the world, and then fell down hill from there.

I do not see how a priest could do justice to being a priest if he were married and had a famILY.  My husband works very long hours, which is hard on the family, and a priest would have even longer hours, when they do their priestly vocation as it is meant to be.

To me there is no way ANYONE can be chaste w/o God’s grace and much prayer, be it a single person and especially for a priest or religious.  Too many priests and religious have stopped the prayer regement, leaving the “door open”, so to speak.  It happens to lay people, such as myself, so I am sure it happens even quicker to priests and religious, since that old devil loves nothing more than getting them in his “clutches”.  Christ’s peace to all!

I have been seeing a psychiatrist for nine years because of severe ringing in the ears that prevents me from doing most priestly work.  This long, deep look into my unconscious has uncovered at the very core of my being an extremely strong drive to be a priest and equally strong drive to be married.  I am priest through and through, but at the same time I am wholly and completely that man about which God said, “It is not right for man to be alone.” 
Celibacy is a GIFT and as such can’t be legislated.  The Church can’t demand the priest to give what he does not have.  And so you are wrong to call Father Cutie a “fallen priest.” Rather, he is a good, holy, priest who had the courage to be what God called him to be, a married priest. 
Father Richard Bain

I’d like to recommend an article entitled a “Celibacy Problem” found online at The Remnant. And, although Fr Cutie must take responsibility for his actions, the woman (all women) should consider priests ‘hands off’. Women can make or break a man.

Why doesn’t anybody mention that THIS PUBLICATION is the property of a religious order whose founder abused MANY MANY young men and had secret affairs with two women - fathering children and also abusing them. Criticizing a priest who was involved with a consenting adult woman is something National Catholic Register has no business reporting on.

The hysteria about celebacy or not in the Church is a big distraction from the depths of love (God) that we find in our hearts and the offering of love we give to others.  We are called to experience God’s love deeply and offer this in service to a needing world.  I dream of a church which is much more concerned about love then rules which preserve power and institutional structure.  I live in Assisi, Italy and I am certain if Francis was alive today he would have very little to do with the Church and would be walking in the footsteps of love of our Lord.

@Father George,
First, I thank you from the bottom of my heart for your ministry.  I can only imagine the sacrifices and burdens that priests bear for the sake of the faithful (and for the sake of the less-than-faithful!)  God bless you and the work that you do.

Next, I have a few questions for you.

First, you mention that Fr. Cutié did not take vows, but made promises to his ordinary.  I am curious as to what the relevance of this distinction is.  Does that mean that he had no obligation to remain celibate, or that he did not sin in fornicating or in leaving the Church, or that his actions were not scandalous, or that, perhaps, he was actually free to marry, whatever the bishop said?  I may be missing something here, but I fail to see how not taking a vow of chastity or celibacy is relevant here.  I myself have never taken a vow of chastity, but am still obligated to remain chaste, am I not?

You also mention that you know many ordained men and women who struggle with chastity.  Again, I fail to see the relevance.  I know many married men and women (and single, secular men and women) who struggle with chastity.  Some more than others, and many don’t struggle at all, but embrace a promiscuous lifestyle, proudly and cheerfully.  This is a great cross to bear, which can also become a blessing if it leads one closer to Christ, as I know from personal experience.  If your argument is that some people struggle with this requirement, so it ought to be lifted, then I must respectfully disagree.  Some people struggle with chastity within marriage, and I don’t think you would argue that we should, because of their struggles, lift the ban on adultery.  I am sure that many men are called to the priesthood *and* have been given strong sexual urges; I don’t think this means that the Church is wrong for requiring celibacy of its clergy, but rather that these men bear the crosses of their urges as part of their pastoral duties.  I suppose we can agree to disagree on the question of whether celibacy ought to be, but I hope that you are at least not making the argument that, because this is a difficult discipline for many religious, it ought to be lifted.

I hope you are also not suggesting that anyone is demonizing Fr. Cutié.  Surely, if we were all hurt by his (very public) scandal, we can be expected to be somewhat hurt and angry, even as we pray for and forgive him?  Surely if he publicly denounces and leaves our Church, we are entitled to respond to his public statements and criticize his behavior, without demonizing him?

I do agree that it’s a shame that the matter was not handled quietly and privately.

Finally, while I understand why you might think that the Magisterium might make Catholicism more accessible by removing certain disciplines like priestly celibacy, I happen to think the end result would be that people would take the faith less seriously.  I don’t think, for instance, that relaxing requirements for fasting on Fridays and Lent, or moving and removing holy days of obligation has made the American Church more popular or better-respected; if anything, it has made people lose respect for the Church and her disciplines.  But it isn’t only about PR, anyway; these decisions should be about pastoral and evangelical effectiveness, not about whether the Church is respected by non-Catholics.

This was a very good, very well-written article. Thank you, Jimmy!

I am very sympathetic to anyone struggling with celibacy, chastity, or continence. Mastering one’s sexual passions and channeling them properly is very difficult for most of us, but some of us more than others. I think I can be sympathetic to any priest or religious or eventually decides they simply cannot be celibate any longer. I have less sympathy, however, for those who lie about their decision, especially when they try to lead a double life. There should be no shame in leaving the priesthood because you can no longer keep your promise of celibacy, or a vow of chastity. But when the priest leaves the Catholic Church so he can continue to be a priest (or become a minister) in another church AND be married, that reflects a more serious problem than a struggle with sexuality. That reflects a struggle with faith and obedience, which is probably where the problem began in the first place.

A man who insists on continuing his life as a priest(or becoming a minister)is lacking humility, trust in God, and faith in the Church. He wants life on HIS terms rather than on GOD’s terms, and he is the last person who needs to be in charge of a flock—any flock. He probably won’t make a very good husband, either. His desire is for power and control, not to lay down his life for a bride.

Fr. George, thanks for clarifying things for me re: priestly vows. I didn’t have a completely clear picture of this in my head. So if I understand correctly, ALL priests and religious take vows of poverty, chastity (i.e. avoidance of sexual sin) and obedience; secular Latin-Rite priests also promise their bishop that they will remain celibate (i.e. never marry) but do not make a formal vow; and religious (priests and non-priests) also take addition vows e.g. of celibacy.

I also understand that in (at least some of) the Eastern Rites of the Catholic Church, a married man may be ordained a priest, and is not required to remain continent (i.e. sexually abstinent) with his wife, but may not remarry if his wife dies; also, I’m told that a married Latin-Rite permanent deacon may not remarry if his wife die.

All correct?

To the person who mentioned the casting of stones:
It would indeed be wrong to judge the state of Fr. Cutié‘s soul, because only God knows hearts, and only God can evaluate the variables of full knowledge and full consent. But we can legitimately speak of what he should or should not have done, and of whether his actions constitute grave matter.

To leave the priesthood and to marry without permission is grave matter. Since no vow would be broken by doing so (thanks Fr. George), I understand he could have requested a voluntary laicization, then married once he had been made free to do, and finish his life living as a Catholic layman (despite the indelible priestly character on his soul). Joining the Episcopal Church, as an act of apostasy, is an even graver matter. One would imagine that all priests would appreciate the gravity of such a move, but considering both the deficits in some priestly formation programs (at least historically) and the possible psychological factors that may have clouded Fr. Cutié‘s judgment, it is impossible for anyone but God to say.

Nick, I believe the last option you listed, marrying and then being ordained in an Eastern Rite Catholic Church, would be impossible. If a man is validly ordained a priest by any bishop with apostolic succession—even one not in communion with the Church—he receives an indelible and catholic (universal) mark of the ministerial priesthood. It is equally valid in all Rites within the Church, and even remains valid for a priest who leaves the faith. If he were to change rites and approach an Eastern Catholic ordinary (metropolitan? bishop?) with a request to marry and serve as a priest, I think such a request could not be granted, because he is already ordained. And (if I’m not mistaken) in the Eastern Rites that allow married men to serve as priests, the man must be married BEFORE the ordination. An Eastern Catholic ordinary could not ordain him a priest because he has already been ordained. He can’t be un-ordained nor re-ordained.

From the letters of St. Paul, as well as from plain observations of human nature and behavior, I think that a priest who is powerfully struggling with chastity should have the option of requesting voluntary laicization so he can marry. St. Paul makes it clear that marriage is better than sexual sin—obviously! I really do support the idea of celibacy in the priesthood for the same reasons St. Paul does, but I think we should be open to the pastoral wisdom of the Church if she one day makes more exceptions, small or large.

Fr. George says that some may not see the book as “self-serving justification,” but as “a meaningful and moving journey.” Can it not be both? By that I mean that when people of strong faith turn away from God, it is rarely in a calculated nor casual way. Look at Martin Luther: his story is very moving, even though its outcome was ghastly. Or read Graham Greene’s powerful novel The Heart of the Matter, which deals with a man’s painful and wrenching decline into sin.

(Also, NCR, your CAPTCHA system is flawed! There is no way to request a different image if you can’t get it to work.)

Just for the record, when Mr Cutie was a Catholic priest he was living a double life… till he got caught. In his ordination to the priesthood he took Christ’s Church as his bride. Thus,he was already married and having an affair… with one of his flock which remember are also his children. He is as much a cad as any two timing married guy. What is his status now?, ...ipso facto excommunication. He brought it all on himself.

This could have been worked out quietly in the Church. However rather than risk his “star status”, he lived a lie… He got caught and now he writes a book to rationalize his sins. The man is and always a fraud. But his “good looks” and female fans distracted him and far to many to see what so many priests knew… he was always unfaithful and this woman IS NOT THE FIRST WITH HIM.

Any woman who marries a priest under vows can expect what any other woman gets when she marries an adulterer….at best, a life of doubt and too often.. a break up for ANOTHER woman.

This is a problem in the Protestant congregations.

To Fr. Richard Bain and Fr. Robert George and other catholic priests, if you can no longer keep your promise of celibacy, or a vow of chastity, then please leave the church now (for your sake) and do not worry about priesthood shortage. Leading other souls astray is a much more dangerous path to take (Mt 18:6). I hope other catholics will help me pray for all priest always, that they remain faithful to Christ.

I think it is time the Church took the log out of it’s own eye and stop worrying about the splinter in someone else’s.  There is plenty of down right filth that has been going on with so called “celibate” priests.  Like stealing from the Church and abusing altar boys and extorting money from the Church.  Do we throw out the married apostles?  They were all married except for one.  Jesus was God and He accepted them as disciples.  I rather doubt that the Love Christ has for His people would exclued someone from a heartfelt ministry because they wanted a companion and family.  Isn’t it more honorable to allow the clergy to marry than have all of these scandals?  How very sad.

In the example Fr George gave of the seminarian he knew, he reports that the ex-seminarian said the Church’s discipline of celibacy was the problem. However, this seminarian was carrying on a sexual relationship with a woman— something that is a sin, against the law of God—and not a mere disciplinary matter of the Church. The bottom line is that the human capacity to deceive ourselves into justifying our actions is immense. This ex-seminarian was also a deceiver, hiding his illicit relationship even from his director. So really, he can’t blame celibacy as the cause of his own sins.

As for Fr Cutie, today I offered an hour of adoration in reparation to Our Lord. We need to pray for priests, that they might faithfully live out their vocation. I pray that Fr Cutie will repent of his sins in giving public scandal and breaking the communion of the Catholic Church, leading others astray.

If we lived in a sane world, when people fall into scandal they would at least have enough of a sense of decency to quietly slip out of the public eye and admit their wrongdoing, if only to themselves. But the world is not sane. So we have Cutie now writing a book to justify his actions. I just hope and pray that we will have the moral courage to admit his wrong actions instead of justifying them.

It takes real honesty and integrity to admit when one fails, especially in a public way by giving scandal. Pope Pius XII said that the greatest sin of our times is that we have lost the sense of sin. What a novelty it would be if someone like Cutie publicly admitted fault and faded into the twilight. But I guess that wouldn’t sell too many books.

One of the politicians I knew well and highly respected (who served on the elected city council I served on) had a motto he always followed: “A man’s word is his bond.”
  Until recent years most people would agree that a true man(or woman) keeps his or her word once solemnly given—no matter what the personal cost, inconvenience, or discomfort.
  Consequently, someone who broke his word was frequently ridiculed and derided. Didn’t Christ Himself, by virtue of the point of two of his parables, also express disdain for such people.
  I refer to His words about not looking back from the plow and going into battle without checking out the cost as well as starting a project you don’t finish.
    But nowadays such people are not ridiculed, they are praised; they are not treated with disgust, but as some sort of heroes.
    Yet a solemn word-breaker can NEVER be trusted. Good luck to Cutie’s wife and the Episcopal Church.

I think a big matter is made about the married Pastors, their families and the ‘troubles’ about it. Why go so far?

For centuries Greek Orthodox clergy are usually married and have a healthy family life both as fathers and priests, without any need for self-help books or publications.

The metaphysical sense of celibacy is also exemplified since monks and archpriests are celibate.

A dead ex priest goes to a dying church. They deserve each other. I’m waiting for the inevitable divorce as this guy’s ego will not allow him just one woman. You’ll see.

Posted by Father Robert George on Wednesday, Dec 29, 2010 10:44 AM (EST):@ Rose,
The reason a lot of men make the promises as diocesan priests because in The Church it is the only way to enter the Priesthood.  This is the sad truth.

I was never convinced of much in arguments to justify one type of error that use as their basis an already inherent weakness or examples of other errors!

I think it’s Mother Angelica who didn’t take candidates who had never had any kind of normal or serious heterosexual relationship toward marriage where they had to actually weigh the sacrifice, make the real choice in reality and realize that they were truly giving something of themselves to this exalted vocation. 

And why are persons so surprised that the struggle continues every day?  How could such a person, unprepared for such struggle, ever be able to minister to the real world situations of the faithful, also struggling with unforeseen crosses many of which never have an ending in this life?  If someone is looking for help in their attempt to avoid failure in their own “promises”/vows, they need a rock not a reed still justifying times of failure rather than the ideal helped by trust and grace.  Unfortunately we don’t look to the great sacrificers of our Catholic history ... we look too much to quasi spiritualists in the genre of Oprah.  Isn’t there something in the lesson/warning of once putting one’s hands to the plow never to look back?

And those mixing in the scandal, etc., into this discussion as some kind of comparable argument ... you’re not only in the wrong church but also the wrong pew!  You haven’t checked out the objective John Jay study’s findings.  The fallacies there were people who were disabled even before taking any vows/promises.

Does keeping celibacy for the secular clergy really overcome the issue that MANY parishes don’t even have a weekly mass due to the shortage of priests?  In every priesthood discernment group I’ve been in “discernment” means can I go without sex and a wife and children?  Perhaps we could just keep closing down parishes?  Nothing better than Fr. Anonymous celebrating mass for 1000+ people.  In my diocese the lay to priest ratio is 1,392:1 (http://www.catholic-hierarchy.org/diocese/dchic.html) and that is a good ratio!

Father Cutie’s case is definitely a lightning rod.  I especially thank the priests posting, both for their life of service and for insights from a very intimate knowledge of such a life.  I guess I do not really have a “position” either way (though I do wish he had not left the Church, nor written a book on the matter), but I would like to pose some genuine questions:

- The words and examples of both Christ and Paul are interesting.  On the one hand, our Lord said that anyone with the gift of celibacy should live it; on the other hand, he ordained mostly married apostles (who then scattered, unpaid, across the known world to spread Christianity, thus posing an interesting predicament for their marriages).  On one hand, Paul said that he wished others would live a life of celibacy in Corinthians, but on the other hand instructed Timothy that a bishop should only be married once.  Keep in mind, the original priests did not have the sheer administrative demands of today’s priests.
- Often the lifting of priestly celibacy is cited as a means to ease the priest shortage.  However, I wonder if it would have the impact we think, for a relatively crass reason: Would the average parish collection support a married priest with a family, at least without adversely impacting other church ministries?  In other words, would we have a Church where more parishes are sharing priests, simply because many parishes could not afford their own?
- Also along the lines of the priest shortage, I have been trying in vain to find authoritative data on whether the Episcopal Church, for example, is suffering a priest shortage.  I have seen snippets that hint it is, which, if true, would make a rather amazing argument against the idea of married priests easing the shortage – after all, the Episcopal Church has a much more open priesthood (married priests, women priests, openly homosexual priests, and even part-time priests) that is ministering to a flock that has seen flat or even negative growth.  An authoritative source on this question would be very helpful.
- Does the “typical” Protestant minister make a good template for a married Catholic priesthood?  It seems to me the Catholic priesthood offers two demands that many Protestant churches do not.  First of all, since Catholicism has such a detailed and wide-ranging Magesterium, the need to be aware of the activities of each parish ministry, and how it adheres to that Magesterium, requires an intimate level of involvement.  Second, since the Church is so sacramental (meaning daily Masses, confessions, anointing of the sick, etc.), there are simply more times the priest has to be available to his flock.  The experience of Eastern Rite churches may have much to say on this, but only outside the United States – my understanding is that Eastern Rite parishes within the United States are expected to adhere to the celibacy rule.
- Should the Church restrict seminarian applicants to age 21 and higher?  On the one hand, it might give men a few (very pivotal) years to determine if they truly can live a life of celibacy.  On the other hand, it might aggravate the shortage, not to mention leave many men with three awkward post-high school years, where they either rack up college debt they may not need, or delay their potential college career for years.  (Then again, three years of working to save for seminary or college might help some families.)
- Is the diaconate an acceptable destination for men who feel called to both ordained ministry and the priesthood?  Granted, deacons do not effect the sacraments, nor do they have the administrative weight of a parish pastor, but an active deacon can take a profound role in person-to-person ministry (baptisms, hearing confessions, witnessing marriages, etc.) and be responsible for significant ministries and operations in a parish (some even being parish administrators).  Admittedly, that pesky day job does get in the way of ministering.
- One final consideration: Does priestly celibacy stand as the sole remaining public testament to our society that our urges can be controlled?  If the celibacy discipline were lifted, I could picture many secular interests crowing that “See, even the Catholic Church admits we cannot deny ourselves sex”, thus using it as one more arguing point that most mores on sexual restraint are outmoded.  In short, the fact that the Catholic Church publicly makes celibacy mandatory for the vast majority of its priests makes a powerful, sacrificial statement, the optional celibacy of other churches much, much less so.

All this said, I suspect the issue will naturally resolve itself.  It seems that Christianity is largely coalescing into two camps, one that believes Christianity should have a very rigorous code of personal conduct, and one that believes the code should be much more flexible.  The former are likely to gravitate, either in sympathies or in actual affiliation, toward the Catholic Church, meaning the numbers of married former Protestant ministers seeking ordination will probably grow.  We will see what happens.

Bryan Kirchoff
St. Louis

Just curious:  were all of you this indignant and sanctimonious when Archbishop Weakland wrote his self-justifying memoir?  So long as he is an archbishop in the Catholic church, nothing should be said against Fr. Cutie.  As for going quietly, how many times have the Catholic blogs and newspapers crowed in triumph when an Anglican priest, religious community, or parish crossed the Tiber?

@MichaelCebu:  I’m puzzled why you are attacking me personally in your post. Please read my comments more carefully and my initial post even though I traversed my name because I do that on another board as a “handle”.  I have been faithful to my vows—all my vows including chastity in Religious Life. I know that I write detailed responses on this important issues—one side effect of a background in academia as well as parishes, but PLEASE read very carefully.

Had I not been able to honor my vows faithfully and without “creative theology” that some use to re-define vows or promises, I would have sought help spiritually and professionally.  I would have, in faithfulness to The Church, left my religious community and the active Priesthood and sought laicization according to the process outlined in Canon Law.  This, Thank God, has NEVER been an issue for me as it has for many others.  I do live out my sexuality in a healthy, non-genital way,consistent with my vows and the teachings of The Church.

Father Robert George

Thanks to the priests for posting. Their experience is the most valuable.

I wish Jimmy would start his next post with this quote from Pope Benedict’s LIGHT OF THE WORLD:

“When a priest lives together with a woman,
one must examine whether a real will to marry is present
and whether they could build a good marriage. If that is
the case, they must follow that path”

(p. 39)

MUST.

How interesting.

@ Rob:

First let me apologize for the length of this, but you inadvertently hit a nerve and I feel called, out of respect for honesty and integrity, to address an issue that you brought up.

Your comments, especially comparing Protestant ministers to those of us in the Roman Catholic communion, reflect a typical stereotype of Catholics which I will address, but I’ve also asked my dear friend, an ordained Congregational minister, to participate here to speak first hand. I do not know if he will join us or not.
You write:
Does the “typical” Protestant minister make a good template for a married Catholic priesthood?  It seems to me the Catholic priesthood offers two demands that many Protestant churches do not.  First of all, since Catholicism has such a detailed and wide-ranging Magesterium, the need to be aware of the activities of each parish ministry, and how it adheres to that Magesterium, requires an intimate level of involvement.  Second, since the Church is so sacramental (meaning daily Masses, confessions, anointing of the sick, etc.)

This assumption is simply incorrect  Many Protestant ministers are just as busy, sometimes busier than those of us in the Priesthood, which requires to use your term, “an intimate level of involvement”. There are always activities going on, in a good sized congregation, things that need the minister’s attention.  There are sick to visit in hospitals and nursing homes, often with a “Rite of Anointing” and certainly with prayer.  There are individuals to meet for Pastoral Counseling often in the context of “Pastoral Confidence”, in which the minister assures the sinner of God’s grace and pardon and must legally and ethically maintain confidentiality.  There are prayer meetings and what all what not, classes to teach including catechism in some traditions and in some, but not all traditions, a congregation may have daily services—sometimes with The Lord’s Supper and sometimes not.  For almost every activity that we priests do in the parish, there is an equivalent activity that our Protestant brothers and sisters in ministry—particularly in the mainline churches—do.  As Catholics, we believe that their denomination’s theology on about the sacraments is incorrect, but the FUNCTIONING AND TIME REQUIREMENT is much the same if not more. So yes, the typical married Protestant minister in a mainline, liturgical Protestant Church would make a good template for married priests.

And although most Protestant churches do not have seven sacraments as we do—with Anglicans and the American Episcopalians being the exception—the “higher church”—that is more liturgical traditions, such as the Evangelical and Reform Tradition, which became part of The United Church of Christ; most Lutheran traditions and The United Methodists—tend to have equivalent “Rites” which are not “sacraments” as such but are still “holy rites”. The Lutheran Book of Worship,(used by most congregations in The Evangelical Lutheran Church in America) for example, has in the front, “A Rite for Individual Confession” with wording and form similar to our “Sacrament Confession” except with some changes that reflect the uniqueness of Lutheran Theology.  Both Lutherans and United Methodists have various Rites which effectively mirror our sacraments but are not called sacraments because of differences in theology, especially in definitions.

(As an aside, I and other faithful priests operate with the Magisterium, but my United Methodist colleauges have a detailed Church legal system that, for them, parallels our canon law.  It’s called “The Book of Discipline” and is updated regularly after their Counsel of Bishops meets, as I understand it.  Each Methodist pastor must abide by this legal system of rules, regulations, procedures and policies, else can be brought before a church court, complete with lawyers specializing in United Methodist Church law—sound familiar?  Every Methodist pastor also reports to someone called a “District Superintendent” which a friend tells me is like an “Auxiliary Bishop” in our Church and has detailed reports to file about “everything”.

I am not aware of The Lutheran process of governance, but I know the the Presbyterians have something like law in a regularly updated document called “The Book of Order”, which I’ve not read, but I’m told by a Presbyterian minister that it is their equivalent of “Canon Law”.

Even if you do not want to extend our Lutheran or Methodist brothers and sisters in ordained ministry, married Episcopal priests (and most are) make a good template for a married Roman Catholic priesthood.  The Episcopal Church has seven sacraments and their worship is centered around the Eucharist.  A “high church” Episcopal congregation, often identified as “Anglo-Catholic” may seem more traditionally “Roman” than many of our parishes.  They will often have weekly novenas, special devotions to The Blessed Virgin Mary, daily masses with High Mass on Sunday, etc.  Many are staffed by members of Episcopal Religious Orders or apostolic communities.  Day schools may be staffed by orders of priests, brothers or nuns.  Many, but not all, are conservative as the most traditionalist Catholics.  They’re main seminary is Nashotah House, which until recently would not admit women and when it did would not allow them to preach at chapel.  They oppose homosexuality in the Episcopal priesthood and, until recently, the ordination of women to the priesthood.  Their Eucharistic understading is very close, if not identical with ours, as I understand it and they firmly believe that Anglican bishops operate under Apostolic Succession—though most Roman Catholics would argue that point.

Other Anglo-Catholic parishes are apparently liberal—as I found in this link about a parish run by a vowed Religious in New York City. Nevertheless, I think I’ve probably OVER addressed your stereotype.

If I’ve helped even one of my fellow Catholics clear up THAT argument, based on a stereotype not reality, I will have done well.

In Christ,

Father Robert George

@dan:

I can’t speak for everyone, but I haven’t read Weakland’s book either. I don’t know what’s in it, and don’t particularly care to.

While Fr. Cutie’s sins harmed his relationship with God, as all sins do, they were private, until such time as the media made them public. Weakland’s worst sins, on the other hand, directly and measurably harmed the Church as an institution, with everyone in his diocese and indeed every Catholic in America. And while Fr. Cutie, when publicity made scandal inevitable, took active steps to minimize the damage, by withdrawing from public ministry and eventually marrying his girlfriend, Weakland…well, I don’t want to go off on a rant about it, since this post isn’t about him, but obviously he didn’t do likewise.

For me, it’s no contest about who’s easier to forgive.

Hi, Jimmy. I wrote a post and linked back. Good stuff. I made a note about vocation awareness week coming up thereafter.

http://lisagraas.com/2010/12/29/father-oprah-has-changed-his-mind/

Looking to the future instead of stagnating in the worn discussions of the near past:

http://www.op-stjoseph.org/blog/vocations_blog/

The word seems to be out on the street that the OPs are the direction being followed by overflowing vocations today!

Perhaps, for the diocesan/secular priests, rather than following protestant ministry as example for heaven’s sake, they should look more to religious community living for a greater spirit of family/brotherhood, support and solidarity in order to stave off a prevalence of loneliness of living mostly alone and separate and “self” reliant.

@ Robyn:

No. You still are a bit confused.  Those in Religious communities, like myself, take THREE vows—Poverty, Chastity, Obedience at the time of our Religious Profession.  We first take “Simple Vows” which are only binding for a time as we and the community determine whether we’re a good fit and then we take “final vows” (also known as “Perpetual Vows”  or “Solemn Vows” which we and The Church beleive are lifelong.  These are vows to God (and to our Religious community) before our communities, family and friends except in Cloistered Religious communities. 

Some communities, like Benedictine monks and Jesuits take additional vows unique to the spirituality and charisms of their respective religious communities.

Diocesan priests do not take religious vows at all. At the time of their ordination, they make PROMISES to the Bishop as their Ordinary or if the ordaining Bishop is not their ordinary, to obey their Ordinary as the head of a particular diocese.  obey him as their spiritual leader for a particular diocese, and they also make a promise to remain celibate.  The promise of celibacy is not the same as the vow of chastity.  They do not make any promises regarding poverty and they are able to own their own property, bank accounts, etc.  A friend of my family who is a secular priest now retired to his family’s farm.  As a Religious, I do not own private property.  I am given a small stipand to cover personal expenses (toothpaste, etc.) and I have items which I am the one who mainly uses them (like this computer) or the car that I use for parish work.  But this all belongs to my community and I simply have “custody” of such things for a time.

I hope this clears the distinction up.  In practice, a diocesan priest is expected to honor his promises until released in the canonically approved process.

Father Robert George

@ Father Harry Potter: <nice handle by the way… if it is…> <grin>
You responded to my post:
I take issue with your statement:

as if liberal catholics were more educated, open, creative, etc. I myself am an artist and a writer, as well as a cathedral priest with strong traditional leanings. Traditionalism does not equate with conservatism. There are conservative Catholics who hate Latin. I am not condemning of Cutie but I also think you are right about his psychology.  

I certainly was not besmirching those who are not “liberal” in my comment. I would consider myself more traditional.  I do not, by the way, concede that liberal Catholics are more educated, open, creative.  That would be true of some and less of others. I was simply commenting on how individuals with different theological bents within our Church might see the book since sometimes we analyze events, publications and such from differing lenses.

Personally, I think the Church is beating a dead horse.  What about all of the homosexual (closet) behavior that takes place in the seminaries and monasteries?  This is not fiction.  It actually takes place.  It seems to me that the most important thing the church needs to focus on is the parishioner’s salvation.  Not going to confession (yes, even the priests do this) to say they were not living a celibate life and then go right back out and do it again??
At judgment time, all that is hidden WILL be brought to Light!

Was it possible/advisable then for Padre Alberto to “switch” to a different rite in the Catholic Church instead of leaving the Church altogether?
I think that IF this was a possibility for him AND IF he knew about this possibility, since he did not pursue this option it would point to a greater defect/problem. What do you think?

Father George, you are performing a great service here.  Thank you for the very informative lessons, and I hope that as people continue to pray for our priests, that they will reserve judgment (assuming they know someone’s motives) for God alone.

Fr. Robert George, I am sorry if you felt being attacked. Your message about the Church being the only way to enter the Priesthood as a sad truth was an alarming message to convey to your readers.

RC Priesthood (like yours) is not about personal wants but what our Lord wants, totally. Priesthood is a great gift but it has a price and it is not for everybody.

For Catholics, the bottom line is finding out what our Fathers will for us (through daily rosary and mass).

I truly wish that Father Cutie’ would go about his business and stop seeking publicity. There have been priests now and again that have left the church quietly and discreetly. He is not one of them. He is one of the very few that have left the Catholic church, however, there are currently hundreds of Church of England(Episcopalians) including many Archbishops and Bishops that are coming into the Catholic church. So we are gaining more than we have lost.

Practically speaking it is good for Priests to get married.  Why?  Currently over 30% of the clergy is homosexual.  Look I don’t want a homosexual to be my priest. Second if I guy can’t have a good marriage, how can I know if he is a good leader of the church.  The Bible says to love your wife as Christ loves the church.  Also all the pedophilia cases were caused by homosexual clergy.  Get rid of those homosexuals and that scandal would almost immediately evaporate.

The discipline of celibacy is archaic.  Look even the Apostle Peter was married.

@ Miguel Carranza

Unfortunately it would not be possible for Fr. Cutie to change rites so he could become a married priest.  A man who is married can be ordained - for example, in the Latin Rite many married men have been ordained to become permanent deacons, and in many Eastern rites married men are ordained to the priesthood. However, even in the Eastern Catholic churches you can’t go the other way and marry after ordination. It’s my understanding that if a married deacon is widowed, even he may not remarry.

Neither marriage nor celibacy are the issue. Is this Priest faithful or unfaithful. That is the issue. Regarding current disciplines of Holy Mother Church one cannot find him faithful.

We are all called to refrain from causing scandal because it can mislead the “children” (this refers both to physical childhood and spiritual children) into confusion and error and/or sin. We avoid scandal by prudence and by a sincere desire to follow Christ whether it is convenient or inconvenient.  Fr Cutie needs our prayers as do all of the thousands who will be reading his book.  We need to unit and fight against the real antagonist for we fight not against flesh and blood but against powers and principalities.

Hi Bryan, 
http://content-0.powells.com/cover?isbn=9780687652600
I’m a Protestant Pastor and I’d like to respond to your comments above. You ask a rhetorical question Does the “typical” Protestant minister make a good template for a married Catholic priesthood? and you proceed to answer it based on what I’ve heard is a “typical”  Catholic argument. “Because of the sacramental nature and worrying about the magisterium, our priests have so much more work…yada yada yada”.... what B.S. and my very best friends are priests in the Roman Catholic communion.  We’ve known each other for years.  They laugh and say THEY wouldn’t trade places with me or some other ministers they know.

“Father George” gives a good, but too long answer, in his response.  But, he’s right and you’re certainly not. 

I’m not the friend that Father George promised might stop by, but I am pastor in a highly liturgical tradition.  I’m also a former member of a United Methodist religious order called The Order of Saint Luke, whose special focus is sacramental and liturgical scholarship, education, and practice, with special emphasis on The Eucharist.

I attended a Lutheran seminary affiliated with the Lutheran Church in America (now part of the Evangelical Lutheran Church in America) and earned an accademic degree in Theology from a Jesuit university as well as studying at Notre Dame in South Bend, Indiana specializing in liturgical studies for which Notre Dame has a renowned doctoral program.  I knew Richard John Neuhaus back in the early 80s before he converted to Roman Catholicism.

My day usually starts at 6:30 or 7:00 a.m., not counting overnight emergencies and Anointing of the Sick and Dying with Oil (yes, we have a “Rite of Anointing” for the Sick and Dying, surprise!, and the wording and form are very similar minus certain references unique to Catholicism…(We also have Rites, which are Sacred and Holy events, that parallel your other seven sacraments and all the preparation that goes with them.)  My day often starts with Daily Office either individually like some of your priests do, or in a community setting.  Usually there are meetings that I’ve got to attend over various projects. I also make any hospital visits and visit our home bound elderly members or those in nursing homes.  This is a daily routine in a decent sized congregation.  There’s usually some luncheon event at which I have to lead prayer almost everyday in a good sized congregation… preparation of sermon…which is not done overnight… meeting with various youth groups….wedding preparation work with couples because I won’t marry couples without a lengthy process of discussion and discernment similar to your church’s Pre-Cana marriage preparation program… maybe I get to have a phone call with my wife somewhere in there…or we meet up at church because she (and during summer, my kids) are just as busy as I am with various ministry projects….then there is more reports and calls to the denomination because something might have arose for which I need to consult the Book of Discipline, our Church law (similar to your Canon Law)....then maybe a meeting or phone call with antoher pastor…or a call to my D.S. (District Superintendent) which is like an Auxiliary Bishop in your commuion… then talking to some couple that wants me to baptize their baby because Grandma goes to our congregation, but they don’t attend anywhere and I can’t baptize a baby that’s not going to be raised in the faith…then…I’ve got a meeting with somebody who thinks she has a call to ministry and we’re looking into that….or the Candidate for “Ordained Elder in Full Connection” (which is the closest thing we have to what you have for priests) ...who’s really not appropriate and I’ve got to file reports with The Bishop’s office and The Board of Ordained Ministry….then we’ve got some people interested in joining but they’re baptists…by background or unchurched so we have pastor’s class…

It goes on and on.  Yet, just like priests have personal downtime in your communion, so do we.  We spend it, usually, with our wives (or husbands) and children, and it’s usually quality time…

You might have guessed, I started as a Lutheran but once I read John Wesley, I became a United Methodist and I am more conservative than many of my colleagues in the UMC because I really do hold to a Wesleyan-Holiness Spirituality.

It’s typical of people in churches to misrepresent others.  I know the some people in my church have many false stereotypes about Catholics, but really it’s time to build understanding or shut up about things that one does not have intimate internal knowledge about from having actually done it and lived it.

Pastor Brad

With all do respect, Pastor Brad, I am a Catholic priest and have co-workers and friends who are protestant ministers and priests. Having a full and comparative kowledge of their ministries and mine, I can honestly tell you that there is a wide difference between the demands of being a Catholic priest and that of being a Protestant minister or priest. The only ones who can understand this difference are those who have been there.  Thank you.

With all due respect, Pastor Brad, I am a Catholic priest and have co-workers and friends who are protestant ministers and priests. Having a full and comparative knowledge of their ministries and mine, I can honestly tell you that there is a wide difference between the demands of being a Catholic priest and that of being a Protestant minister or priest. The only ones who can understand this difference are those who have been there. Thank you.

@ Father Robert George-
Thank you for your above posted comments. They are extremely insightful, honest and mature. God Bless.

One practical aspect that stops me dead in my tracks (before I can even address the spititual aspect) is how will married priests support themselves and their families.  Whenever I receive the year end statements from my parish, I am struck by how much money is spent on maintaining the parish and running the catholic school (salaries, health care, etc.)  We have 4 priests at our parish.  Where would they live with their families?  How would they support a large, catholic family and fulfill their duties/vocation?  There are no easy answers no matter how simple the question.

So Fr. B do you agree that 30% of the priests are homosexual?  In the Old Testament a priest could be married but if he was homosexual he would be stoned.  So in typical fashion the false church of Catholicism focuses on the gnats and strains at the truth.  The wafer god religion is truly an invention of superstitious Scholastics.  It is very simple.

Bible + Faith = Christianity = Eternal Life
Christianity + Paganism + Transubstantiation + Scholasticism = Catholicism = false Religion.

Fact is all Catholic priests need to repent for being false teachers, otherwise they will end up in the lake of fire.

Those who are trully united to Christ, full of his love and in a state of spiritual union - which only can come w/a deep prayer life and great commitemment - have no need for marriage here on earth, nor do they look for other ways of fullfiling that need for love. That is what the lives of the saints show us. Unfortunately Alberto Cutie (no point in calling him “father” anymore)is an example of how the world can pull us away from the things of heaven.

When a priest is ordained, he is married to the Church, the Bride of Christ, since he himself is to be configured to Christ. To leave the priesthood for another woman is the equivalent of a married man having an affair and leaving his wife to marry his sweetheart. But, in this culture of divorce, where now more that 50% or marriages end in divorce, what Cutie has done is seen as of no consequence. “hey, he fell in love, let him be”. Marriage, whether spiritual or here on earth, requires commitment and sacrifice. Do married men sometimes feel attracted to the “other woman”? Yes, but if he is truly committed he will know where to turn for strength. He will remember that be made a promise to God to be faithful. He has to make a choice: to remain faithful to the one he promised his love to, he will find ways to rekindle his love for her and foster a deeper union; or he will go with his impulse and foster a relationshiop with the other woman and feed that other relationship.  Cutie’s story is sad, sad for him, sad for the Church, and sad for those that will want to follow his lead.

Fr R: this young man’s story somehow makes me think of St Thomas Moore. He was a man of deep faith, that served the Church to the point of martyrdome, but still was married. If this man felt called to serve Christ so closely but could not make terms with remaining celibate then he obviously he was not called to the Roman Catholic Priesthood in the Latin rite. There are many many many holy men that are very close to Christ and serve his Church with great passion and commitment are still are married and have families. Examples abound in our modern world.

Either the Catholic Church is the one, true Church or not. Either the Real Presence is just that or it is blasphemy. If it is, then anything else pretending to be the Eucharist (monthly Lord’s Supper, something calling itself Eucharist, etc.) is blasphemous. Either Anglican priests have valid orders or, pace Leo XIII, they are utterly null and void. If they are utterly null and void, then Anglican/Episcopalian priests have no more priestly powers than any lay member of the Body of Christ. They can baptize in the case of emergency or bless their own immediate family members, no more, no less.

Understanding this—as he had to have—why, why, WHY would Fr. Cutié have left the Catholic Church to become an Episcopalian? The issue was not about him and his honey. It had to be something else. Whatever the case, just as well, since Cutié has obviously ceased to be Catholic in any tradtional sense of the world. The only question that remains is why won’t his fellow travellers (i.e., the dissenters all along the spectrum) have the intellectual integrity to do the same as he has done?

In addition to all the obstacles that satan, through the world poses, I believe that the lack of saintly priest amd religious vocations are due to lack of families with many children, as the word of God recommends and blesses, ans, ultimately, the lack of real faith, including many priests and religious.

No man or woman is worth going to hell for.  Fr. Cutie will find this out if he hasn’t already.  The “Church” should be preaching from the pulpit that it is a mortal sin for anyone to date someone who is divorced.  I put the “Church” in quotes because I really wonder if it can be found anywhere anymore.

This priest has certainly placed himself in a perpetual state of mortal sin with its infinite consequences.  He has certainly shown an infantile understanding of God and the Catholic Faith. He has acted more like a bratty child (albeit, with a culpable conscience) than a man of God.

But, I see myself when I see him. I remember my youth with its itinerary of all-important sexual sins. I remember how often and how fully I deceived myself in defense of those sins. I remember how often the Church—and even God—were wrong about the nature of my sins. And I remember my most glorious act of freedom: rejecting even the existence of God.

But God was more merciful to me than he appears to be with this priest. I shuddered at loud noise made during the night. I panicked with any palpitation of my heart. As much as I wanted to serve only Me, I was never allowed to be comfortable doing so. I have only begun, at age 60, to perceive those youthful (and not so youthful) sins as anything but joyful manifestations of living life to the full.

Today they haunt me. Each and every sin, large or small, helped pave a path away from God to hell. And habits, too! Can anyone understand how difficult it is to replace bad habits with virtue?

Perhaps this priest is lost. Who can know what will happen? But God is using his sad story as a warning to all. Play with sin, fashion a personal moral code, reject God’s Church—and no matter how “alive” you feel, you are but a dead man looking for his eternal grave.

I wonder if Fr. Cutie’s book will address the homosexual domination of the Archdiocese of Miami. I would not be surprised if this played a role in his trajectory as well. 

It’s demoralizing after a while.

@ Father B

I understand your sarcastic response to the Pastor who posted (given his tone), however, I would have beg to differ with you on whether we or the average minister in The Lutheran, Episcopal, United Methodist or Presbyterian church has “busier” or functionally more difficult days.

For two years, I worked on in an ecumenical mental health and health care ministry to which I was assigned by my Religious community.  It was physically located at two congregations—a congregation affiliated with The Presbyterian Church U.S.A. and at a congregation affiliated with The Evangelical Lutheran Church in America.  These congregations each had between 300 and 500 members and the PCUSA congregation had a single pastor.  The ELCA congregation had a pastor and a seminarian pastoral associate.  Through my direct experience in ministry with these fine people and in developing friendships with the pastors, I’d have to say, honestly, that their days were as functionally as busy as mine in an comparably sized parish with one exception at the PCUSA congregation.  The pastor, a woman, did not have to conduct daily worship.  The ELCA congregation, on the other hand, had daily worship which included Holy Communion at least 3 times a week.  And, although unusual for Lutherans, according to the pastor, every Sunday Service was a service of Holy Communion.  He explained that was because he was an associate of a Lutheran Benedictine monastery in Oxford Michigan, Saint Austine’s House.  (I admit I had to do a Google search to remember the name.)

Our theology is vastly different from most of our Protestant brothers and sisters (not so different from Episcopalians and Anglicans in “The Anglo-Catholic movement”), but to assume, whether we’re clerics or laity, that our daily ministry functionally in terms of time spent and demands made is so much more “challenging” or complicated than that of many of our colleagues in the mainline liturgically oriented Protestant communions smacks of arrogance and hubris—or perhaps just ignorance, whether it comes from a member of the laity or a fellow priest.  Then, again, there is so much diversity within Protestantism that it may also be a reflection of that diversity that we’ve made different observations.

Having said that, I discovered first hand how many misconceptions many of our ecumenical leaning Protestant clergy and laity have about those of us in The Catholic Church. 

In Christ,

Father Robert George

@ Andre,

Thank you for your comments.  You said, however, that (in the case of the seminarian who was my former Spirital Directee), that “these men lack faith”.  I can’t count how many times I’ve heard those kind of comments over the years from many people in parishes and other Church settings.  I suppose I’m more “liberal” on those matters than many, even though my lengthy discussions with “Carl” in the other blog topic show that my pastoral response is as “conservative and orthodox as they come”. 

I draw a distinction between a person’s faith in any institutional church (including The Church) and a deep, abiding faith in God or in Jesus Christ as a person’s Lord and Savior.  As difficult as it is for many Catholics to believe, I am convinced in my heart and soul that we will see many in heaven who are, under Church law and doctrine, apostates.

And I am even more certain that many of our Protestant clergy (who were never Catholic) and laity will be there too.

I’m thankful for that.  God’s love and mercy is greater than ours!  Praise be to God—and Jesus died and rose for all, not just we Catholics.

In Christ, may His Light continue to shine on us!

Father Robert George

@ Joanne:

Large Protestant congregations, with extensive ministries, also have huge bills, yet they manage.  Your parish has 4 priests?  In this era, I would guess that you’re in an extremely large and active parish with many ministries. 

Usually Protestant ministers in “mainline”  liturgical traditions, which are the closest I can think of to my functional experience (although major differences in theology), do not make huge salaries, but more importantly is that in many congregations of that size, all the ministers do not live on the premises.  Most rent or own their own homes nearby the congregation.  If the congregation has a “parsonage”, which is the Protestant equivalent of our “rectory”, the senior pastor is most likely to live there with his or her family.

I know several Protestant ministers who’s wives work outside the home to assist with finances.  One of these wives was a professor of mine when I earned my Master in Social Work at the direction of my community.

In Christ,

Father Robert George

@Fr. George:  Thank you, thank you for spending your scant free time clarifying
for us these many issues. If what I say here is in error, I beg that you correct me.

@ Freddy:  Please point to me in the bible where Jesus said that he would forgive all sins but homosexual ideation.

In fact, I seem to remember Jesus administering at noon, in the public square a man who “carried water”.  This may seem pretty harmless to modern readers; in ancient times, it was the equivalent of a man wearing high heels and fishnets. Jesus forgives even those with this disordered desire, provided they repent with the rest of us sinners.

A continent priest who has mastered his homosexual urges is not a homosexual. He is a priest. These matters are not our concern, but between the man himself and God.

That priests were made of men who could not control their baser instincts and urges is indeed shameful, but allowing for sexual “outlets” for priests would not, I think, help matters, but hurt.  It is not frustration that leads to a lack of control, but a lack of control that leads to scandal.

Men who use their station and special connection to young minds as a means for sexual release are not merely homosexual in inclination, but gravely disordered in not only their promises to God and the men and women they serve, but broken in their very relationship those weaker then themselves. They are predators in sheep’s clothing. Those that can be saved are in dire need of Christ’s mercy.

But if these men who disgraced themselves and our Church weren’t seen before they took their vows and released into places like Church school grounds… where was the oversight? Were were the superiors who’s jobs it was to make sure that empty, depraved souls did not gain the cloth?  Fortunately, this *is* being addressed.
It takes much longer than we’d like, but alas, by the time frame of the largest bureaucracy in the world, it’s swift.

If I remember my history correctly, scandal within the Church was greater and more wide spread *before* these traditions were put in place. See reference to popes fighting wars with their own sons for the Chair of Peter, etc.

Men of the Renaissance would be struck dumb in awe of how many priests earnestly and successfully hold up their vows in the modern world.

The trouble is, we have to make a Church of men (and women… nuns and lay women are indispensable in the administration of the Church, certainly!) and not angels.

So… in the grand scheme of things, what Mr. Cutie has done isn’t as dramatic as it could be. I wouldn’t want him to minister to me, even if I were an Episcopalian.
Being human myself it would take some time to forgive… and to observe the fruits of his conversion.  As a Catholic, I am saddened that he has left the fold; were I an Episcopalian, I would be suspicious that his desires had led to his conversion and not his conscience.

“Having it all” is certainly a seductive temptation. It is not what it is cracked up to be.

@ MichaelCebu:

I’m terribly sorry that you found my comment that: The reason a lot of men make the promises as diocesan priests because in The Church it is the only way to enter the Priesthood.  This is the sad truth. to be alarming.  I do as well, but it is also honest.  It is one of the realities that I had to grapple with after I became a Licensed Therapist who, because I’m a Religious and a priest, deals with this matters more regularly than I wish. 

Many men also enter the priesthood, and sadly make it though the lengthy spiritual evaluations and psychological examinations because they are really dealing with serious psychosexual issues—which can either be homosexually oriented or heterosexually oriented—and they tend to think, inside, that if they enter diocesan priesthood or Religious life, God will remove these “thorns in the flesh” or perhaps that they’ll be able to pray them away.  I think that the recent sexual scandals and pedophilia cases here in the United States and the massive problems that came to light in Ireland and now Germany, not to mention the absolute level of duplicity and depravity practiced by Marcial Maciel Degollado, (founder of Legionaries of Christ, publishers of this magazine and website) show how well that works out.

As a trained therapist AND A PRIEST, I firmly believe, both professionally and personally, that it is the nearly universal application of lifelong priestly celibacy that is one of the largest causes of legal, moral and ethical problems now facing The Church worldwide.  Given the current Church policy and practices, even with new reforms that the Vatican and dioceses, and men’s and women’s Religious communities are developing or have already developed, the problem is unlikely to go away as long as the disciple of celibacy is pretty much applied universally.  No formation or psychological testing is that full proof by nature by the very nature of the deeply personal and private issues involved.

Please continue to pray for those of clergy in the Church.

In Christ,

Father Robert George

  I am extemely fulfilled in my chaste Religious life.

Wow! Fr.George you have some very insightful answers.  I do not, however, understand some of the comments where the person is sending someone to Hell. I think it behooves us to look at our own lives and not condemn someone else to Hell.

@ George,

Thank you for your response.  After mentioning my insightful answers,  you wrote: .  I do not, however, understand some of the comments where the person is sending someone to Hell. I think it behooves us to look at our own lives and not condemn someone else to Hell.

I don’t remember writing anything about sending anyone to Hell.  I’m assuming therefore that you’re referencing comments by other people who posted here.

In Christ,

Father Robert George

Father Robert George:  thank you for taking the time to write.  While I understand the tenor of your argument, I think the argument might be beside the point: the discipline of doing what one said one would do seems to be un-vogue.  See http://www.nytimes.com/2010/12/19/fashion/weddings/19vows.html?_r=2&adxnnl=1&ref=style&adxnnlx=1293756145-STXgRzFNWQQSsofBk95Efw.  The pivotal quote is: “their options were either to act on their feelings and break up their marriages or to deny their feelings and live dishonestly.”  That’s it.  Feelings change.  Vows, promises, oaths, what are they in the face of feelings?

One priest here in South Florida proclaimed in his Christmas sermon that Jesus did not put sexual sins at the same level as sins against love. The implication is of course that a sexual sin is not a sin against love. So when a priest has sex with one or more women outside of marriage he is not sinning against love.

Why don’t bishops demand audio reproductions of all sermons from priests? How exactly do they supervise them?

Then in this forum we read “Fr. George Robert” informing the world that “...there are a sizable number of priests, brothers and sisters and nuns, who find themselves unable to live out the vows of chastity or in the case of diocesan priests, their promise of celibacy…”

So if one leaves the chapel at night and there is one late comer woman about to leave but then a priest enters, and she stays, what is one to think?

This is trustworthy priesthood?

It’s better to have no priests at all.

The Bible makes it very clear in 1 Cor 6:9-11 that Homosexuals will NOT inherit the kingdom of God. So Father Flamer is guaranteed to go to Hell. In the Old Testament, God required ALL Jews to be familiar with the Old Testament.  Similarly a good Christian church requires you to be familiar with the entire New Testament.  However priests are keeping the sheep deliberately ignorant by telling them they should not read the Bible.  The reason they do this is so they can control you.  This is why I have yet to meet an educated Catholic.  If they were properly educated they would flee the Catholic church immediately.  So only a fool would want father flamer to be his priest.

To Father George and Pastor Brad I owe an apology and consider myself duly educated.  I certainly wasn’t meaning to imply Protestant pastors sit around all day and simply show up to church on Sundays by any means.  I’m probably guilty of “thinking out loud” (or “thinking in type”, as the case may be), as well as trying to do an over-generalization by comparing the Catholic priesthood to Protestant ministry rather than having a more denomination-specific mindset.  I appreciate the lengthy, insightful responses.

Regarding the “sacramental” speculation, I was thinking specifically along the lines of Confession and daily Mass, presuming there were probably other Catholic practices I wasn’t thinking of that impose similar requirements.  I duly note that daily services are a more widespread practice in Protestant denominations than I appreciated, as well as rites.

Regarding the question of ministry involvement, I was thinking that scandal (both in the common usage and the Catholic sense) involving the Catholic Church is a rather popular media topic today.  Thus, I was speculating priests might have to get into the micro-details of any given ministry a bit more to assure there’s nothing going on that might spark a “church-group-defies-Catholic-doctrine” story in the local paper, and such “monitoring” can be time-consuming.  My use of the term “intimate”  was in reference to that, not the concern any pastor has for a ministry’s success - I knew beforehand that Protestant pastors care every bit as much for their ministries as priests do for theirs.

Again, I apologize for any offense.  Given the promise of celibacy is so challenging, I was trying to offer a series of sincere questions, followed by hypotheses as to why the Church continues to adhere to it - hypotheses for discussion and, as need be, correction.  Thank you, gentlemen, for your responses, and I salute your work.

Freddy—You are generalizing about Catholics for I have been reading the bible almost daily for years. What keeps me in the Catholic Church is that I cannot turn my back on Jesus Christ, who protestants do not recognize in the Most Holy Eucharist. If they did, if they came and were able to see and believe, they would be Catholics.

Come and see! Come, be converted, eat and drink from the Most Holy, for you need Him completely for Eternal Life.

Freddy, the most Holy Eucharist is all gift, grace, as John wrote about Him, even though not even Catholics deserve Him.

Nick: your post hit the nail on the head.
What Cutie could have done besides schism:
- Repent of fornication and be a better spiritual father
- Leave priesthood, become a layperson in the Church
- Leave priesthood, marry his girlfriend in the Church
- Marry and be ordained in the Eastern Catholic Church
Either way he would still be Catholic!

JoAnn I agree with you also:
If priesthood is seen as a sort of marriage to the church then this man did the equivalent of cheating on his spouse and, after being caught, left her for his mistress.

Mack: Your comment on the seminarian who was fornicating and then left the Church which Christ founded to become a Methodist was spot on.

Mark: When a priest lives together with a woman,
one must examine whether a real will to marry is present
and whether they could build a good marriage. If that is
the case, they must follow that path”

Mark this quote was in the context of a priest having had children by a woman.  Pope Benedict is saying that they must follow that path for the good of the children.  Did you not realise this from the context?

Matt: He wasn’t _intentionally_ creating a public scandal by his sins.
Matt, whilst a Latin Rite Catholic priest he was rolling around on a public beach in Florida with his lady friend.He said in a television interview when the pictures came out that they knew a photographer was following them. In a television interview he said He had been “serious” about this woman for two years and co-incidentally he had been in negotiations with the Episcopal bishop for two years. [he did not say this in a TV interview] How more intentional could you get?

Freddy: Currently over 30% of the clergy is homosexual.
Freddy your source for this allegation?
Also all the pedophilia cases were caused by homosexual clergy.
Not all the sexual abuse was paedophilia, most was with pre pubescent males- ephebophilia. Read the John Jay report.

Father Flamer is guaranteed to go to Hell.
I’m not sure who Father Flamer is but Catholics leave judgement as to the state of a person’s soul to God. We can judge a person’s actions though.

However priests are keeping the sheep deliberately ignorant by telling them they should not read the Bible.
Oh dear Freddy, you don’t really know much about Catholicism do you? Give me a link to a statement of a priest in our time in which he tells people not to read the bible.Catholics can obtain indulgences for reading the bible.  Have you ever been to a Catholic Mass and listened to the scripture readings or read the scripture readings in a Catholic missal?

Fr Robert George is enamored of hearing himself speak, or in this case seeing himself post, and said posts are dishonest at worst and red-herring like at best. What a hoot: “Many men also enter the priesthood, and sadly make it though the lengthy spiritual evaluations and psychological examinations because they are really dealing with serious psychosexual issues—which can either be homosexually oriented or heterosexually oriented” Ha.Either??! Seriously. Any member of the laity with the ability to read should: Homosexual issues are the rule, not the exception. Do you know, Fr George, what percentage of reported/known abuse cases at the hands of priests were perpetrated on young boys? Dont make me hunt and peck for terms; your “curse” isn’t academic background. It seems to be some weird version of sophistry. And I don’t need some War and Peace-esque response, just btw.  Actually, none would be fine. The time you spend blogging perhaps ought to be spent praying the rosary. OH WAIT thats so old school. Sheesh I’ve never seen such blather. It’s so well written too,  yet reading your ramblings is sort of like drinking that poison we’ve all heard of that comes served in a beautiful golden goblet: The serious psycho sexual issues aren’t a heterosexual guy pining for his GF. It is a pederasty problem. It is a pedarasty problem It is a pederasty problem. No doubt, in my opionion, in part the work of Satan, who apparently counts on soft pitches with posts like yours to make his work easier. Shame on you. No, I’ve never heard of you, haven’t read your posts to Cameron or Carl or whoever either. I shall, however pray for you.

Freddy - St. Paul wrote: “For anyone who eats and drinks without discerning the body, eats and drinks judgment on himself.” (1 Cor 11:29)

Obviously he discerned “the body” of Christ.

For you to refer to the Most Holy Eucharist as an idol is blasphemy.

Recapacitate.

@ Bryan Kirchoff: Thanks for your response.  I think that the reason that the Church continues to adhere to mandatory celibacy for Priests in the Western Rite (whether as a “promise” for secular priests or “vows” for those of us who are Religious) are complex, but one of the main reasons—for secular priests—is probably fear that some laity would find such a change unacceptable or damaging to their faith.  I think this is because many people confuse celibacy or chastity as indelible marks of the special nature of priesthood—rather than the disciple that celibacy is. 
I’m am fulfilled in my chaste life, as I’ve said, but many of my colleagues in both secular and religious priesthood would not say that; although many would.

One commenter here predicted Father Cutie would be as loyal to his wife as he was to the promises he made before ordination to the Catholic priesthood.
  The comment reminded me of a Catholic priest who married, became a “priest” in the Episcopal Church, came to the largest Episcopal parish in our city, then ran away with the woman (married) pastor of the parish.
  Sin, in its many forms—including the breaking of vows and solemnly given promises—rears its ugly head wherever it gets a chance.
  Incidentally, the youth co-ordinator (married) of that Episcopal parish later was later canned for molesting some children in its youth program. Nothing shows more that having married people in responsible positions in a parish (or any secular group, such as public schools)  will somehow head off gross sins than the experiences of some Protestant churches and the ignored public schools. It’s just that the media buries the horrendous abuse problem in all other groups in our modern decadent society while constantly headlining the Church’s problems—a decadence the media has helped create and promote. In fact, the media viciously assaults groups such as the Boy Scouts who try to head off problems within its organization.

@ SteveP: Good comments. Thank you for sharing.  I did not mean to imply that one should follow “feelings” once a vow or promise is made.

@ cyejbv: I’m sorry that you find my posting style long-winded.  I’m also sorry that you find my posts dishonest or a red herring. I know you did not ask for a reply, but you did posit a question.  I’ll try to be short.  Most of the sexual abuse, at least in the United States, has been by Religious brothers and priests or secular priests against young boys or teenagers.  Pedophilia and Ephebophilia are distinct from homosexuality regardless of the gender of the “target”—the victim.  In non-clerical circles, Pedophiles and Ephebophiles may be married and have normal sexual relations with their partners while “hunting” for boys as part of their “drive”.

I post here to help people understand.  I write so much to be clear on some complex issues.
And I do pray the Rosary. Thank you very much,

Father George

I was a missionary in the Episcopal church in Honduras for some 14 years.  During that time period we had a number of Roman Catholic priests join the Episcopal church (under Bishop Frade), and any number I questioned as to whether they joined the Episcopal church for Biology or theology.  I clashed with some of them over following the rubrics of the BCP relating to several practices where the RC and Episcopal church were out of sinc. 

I’ll note in passing that about 9% of the Orthodox clergy are celebate and they do not have the large number of resignations that the Roman Catholic church does.

Priest like Cute do not have the foundation of faith.  We agree that feelings come, but all feelings cannot be obeyed. Every human being has sexual feelings, especially when they see women. But the feeling is not a sin, If feeling makes you run after her and rape her or if you cast away your fidelity to your wife and run after the woman it is sinful To avoid that God has given the wonderful quality called ” CONTROL” and we have to use that at appropriate times. It is possible only if we have faith and a prayerful life. There is no use finding fault with the Church discipline of celibacy for any ill

To all that say “I can’t judge” or “don’t cast the first stone” ... please.  Admonish sinners is a spiritual act of mercy - the FIRST spiritual act of mercy under the Divine Mercy.  So, sorry, carrying on an affair before leaving the priesthood was a sin.  Doesn’t make me not a sinner, or a better sinner, it is just the truth.  Saying so not only helps Fr. Cutie (if he is humble enough), it reinforces to others who may be struggling with celibacy what is the right thing to do and the wrong thing to do. 

What about justifying your behavior in a new book - “I am not the same person i was 22 years ago, etc?”  Sinful??  Hmmm.  Not sure I know.  But one of the earlier posts made a great point ... those of us who are married often struggle with marriage ... very wrong for me to then say, “well, I am a different person than I was 22 years ago when I got married.” 

Probably is sinful of Fr. Cutie - as he goes on talk shows to promote his book and audience fawns when he talks about being a different person - because in justifying his behavior [and please, he will no doubt try to whitewash his justification by saying words to the effect of “I am not justifying my behavior”] he is making it easier for others struggling with celibacy, or marriage, or whatever, to either commit or continue their own sinful behavior [e.g., “Fr. Cutie is right, and I am not the same person I was when I married my wife]. 

Having done things wrong, best thing Fr. Cutie could do is leave it alone.  Don’t tell us how hard it was, or how you have changed, waa waa waa.

Gotten kind of worked up about this “cast the first stone” thing vs. calling a sin a sin.  People were throwing stones to inflict pain on the sinner, physical pain.  For me or anyone else to inflict pain - physical or emotional - on a sinner suggests that that sinner owes me something.  When a crime is committed, the judge and jury sit as the State, not as individuals.  When a judgment is rendered - guilty, the State is judging, and the penalty - jail - is rendered to the State, not to the Judge or the individual jurors involved (or even to the victim).  When I inflict pain on a sinner, I am judging that person, and meting out punishment, as if it is owed to me, personally, which it is not. 

But, if a friend of Fr. Cutie’s sees him in this affair, and tells him “hey, knock it off, that is a sin” that is not a judgment and inflicts no pain for my benefit.  Same with “hey, Fr. Cutie, justifying your past sinful behavior is sinful in itself as it can lead people astray, so ditch the book and excuses.”

Here’s my take on this story and I hope that Fr. Cutie takes heed:
http://college-ethics.blogspot.com/2011/01/fr-cutie-and-church-of-great-deception.html

Fr. George, You seem to too emotionally involved to be thinking as Christ would think.  However much a young man says he loves JESUS and is called to the priesthood, if he is so deceitful as to hide his affairs and to ask others to cooperate in hiding them, he is NOT a holy man.  Remember, Satan was given the twentieth century to try to destroy the Church.  Men like this have a father who knows the Word well, but they show by their actions and resistance or unwillingness to pray for or accept God’s grace, that He is not their Father.  They will be good priests on their own terms? That’s the argument of homosexual clergy as well.  It is NOT our FAITH.  They are making up their own!  God’s grace overcomes all sins and their actions and duplicity are sins.

Pam:
You write: However much a young man says he loves JESUS and is called to the priesthood, if he is so deceitful as to hide his affairs and to ask others to cooperate in hiding them, he is NOT a holy man. 

Pam, it’s more complicated than that.  What you may have is someone who is NOT holy, as you say, or you may have a human being with human weaknesses—who although he’s a priest, is a sinner, just like all human beings. 

Just because we priests have a special Calling, does not mean that we have become sinless—that’s blasphemy.  The only person who walked this earth without sin was Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. Even the Pope and the Cardinals sin and so do your parish priests.

The choice to break promises or vows and have others collude in covering the lie or lies up is NOT a holy act, it is an evil act.  But that may or may not mean that a particular priest or those colluding with him or evil people in and of themselves. Maybe misguided, definitely sinners, maybe evil, maybe not.  I tend to believe that Christ would be much more merciful than any of us.

I am not “too emotionally involved,” as you would think.  Within my community, I am one of the men who is assigned to deal with these types of issues as well as alcoholism and addictions.  It’s, in part, why my community paid for me to earn a Master in Social Work and to continue education in a number of psychological specialties as well as special aspects of spiritual direction beyond what a “typical” Religious would have OR parish priest—religious or secular. While may pastoral approach with people in the parish where I’m assigned is very orthodox and “conservative”, I am also informed by the insights of my profession as a therapist and realize that issues are much more complex than the simplistic assumptions that some are making here.  Not everything is black and white as you imply.  There are gray areas.

And my God is a God of compassion not legalism.

Do I believe what Father Cutie did was right or acceptable?  Certainly not.  Can God still offer him grace and forgiveness even if he never returns to The Roman Catholic faith?  Certainly, if he’s open and willing to receive it.

Try being less rigid. Pray for Father Cutie, his family and his new flock.

In Christ,

Father Robert George

OK, maybe I’m confused, while I understand that the Eastern Rite allows for married priests, isn’t it required that after ordination, marriage is no longer an option for the priest.  I have a very difficult time contemplating a dating priesthood, which seems to be the prerequisite for a married priesthood if the discipline were ever to be lifted after ordination.  Hell hath no fury like a woman scorned, I guess I just cannot imagine, along with the duties of the priesthood, an option for dating members of the flock-as well as the possibility of breaking up with one member, then selecting another to date.  It sounds like a horrid scenario to me.

Fr. George,  Things are complicated in this world but who is an acceptable candidate for the priesthood is not as complicated as you would like to make it.  We are all sinners, but we are not all objectively disordered or blatantly defying Church teaching.  His weakness is screaming “Church scandal!”  He may make a terrific Catholic, but he has told you to your face he is not serious about the priesthood!  You say your order sent you for a masters in Social Work.  That is part of the problem.  Better they made you an exorcist.  Psychology is the worlds tool.  Not God’s. God knows men’s hearts and that is what he looks at.  He doesn’t care about how good a homilist or how charming or how knowledgeable.  This is part of the error! The man has shown you his heart.

Canon 277 clearly states that celibacy is a “special gift of God.”  The scandalizer is not the priest who NOT given this special gift falls in love and gets married.  He is only confirming God’s word “It is not right for man to be alone.”  The scandalizer is the Catholic Church who sins against this word by not allowing the priests who clearly have not been given the gift of celibacy to marry. 

Saint Nicholas of Flue was given the special gift of inedia - living without food or drink. This allowed him to devote every minute of his waking day to prayer and to draw extremely close to God. He has been dead for over 400 years, yet one still feels extraordinary peace and love when praying at his relic in Sachsein, Switzerland. Why doesn’t the Church, while they are at it, demand that all priests be inedicts?  And, if a priest is found eating anything but the Eucharist take away his faculties and teach that if he continues to eat without being laicized - which can take up to thirteen years - he will go to hell.

Father Richard Bain

Fr. George, Peace of Christ.  There are other comments that I would like to address out of concern that the truth of Christ’s teaching be preserved.  First I was not referring to Fr. Cutie who was a priest for many years and had presumably been celibate a long time before he was tempted and fell so badly. Only God knows all the circumstances in that- all those who let him down and all he didn’t do that he needed to do to stay close to Christ- and I leave that to Him. We know without Him we can do nothing but sin and we know it appears Fr. Cutie let himself be distanced from Christ. Of course I believe he can return to God’s grace until he is dead. And I pray he does, but if he repents, absent some miraculous calling from God like St. Paul’s, I would hope he would not return as an active Catholic priest. I will pray for him as you suggest.  The man I was speaking about was your example of a young man in formation who, while going through formation was in an active relationship and was hiding it from everyone.  You feel torn about his vocation?  What would God have to do to show you that someone does not have a vocation?  If you change the rules you will get more priests?  If there are no rules you will get even more?  And just what kind of shepherds would that give us and what kind of Church?  You know the priesthood is not a job. It is a vocation.  Perhaps you are aware of Pope Leo XIIIth vision?  We have been under attack for one hundred years.  Satan has been attacking mankind and our priesthood to wipe out all belief in God, and more importantly here, the TRUE FAITH.  We have a spiritual battle that needs spiritual solutions, not human ones.  Although you would like to think I see everything as black and white, that is not so.  God is very compassionate and His mercy is His greatest attribute, but He never compromises His Truth.  The truth is Roman rite priests are called to celibacy.  There are other rites where married priests are allowed. The truth is Benedict XVI called homosexuality incompatible with the priesthood. Fostering dissent by waivering on these issues or covering up sin instead of exposing it to the light and repenting of it hurts the Church and diminishes the Truth - Nothing is impossible to God. We are all called to carry our cross.  We are all called to die to ourselves. We are all called to be in the world but not of it.  We are all called to live in the Spirit, not the flesh. We are all called to a living faith in God’s healing power. We are all called to be brothers and sisters, not potential lovers.  We are all called to give primacy to the beauty of the inside over the beauty of the outside. While ecumenism is a wonderful effort at unity, we cannot deny the fullness of Truth we know is embodied in the Catholic Church. Jesus watched everyone walk away who would not accept the True Presence.  He died a horrible death rather than compromise with scribes and pharisees over the Truths He taught and IS.  He waited on the farm for the prodigal son to recognize his sin and return REPENTANT.  You confuse rigidity and faithfulness.  Like Mother Theresa, I would rather be faithful than successful and I know you would too.  God bless.

Fr. Richard Bain, time to go to confession! I will refer you to my comment to Fr. George about Pope Leo XIIIth’s vision.  Our priesthood is Sacred.  It is a rare calling.  The hands of the man who is ordained turns bread and wine to the Body and Blood of Christ!  Their words remove sin! They are NOT just another man! Their heart and soul are HIS.  We live in a world that embraced the sexual revolution, materialism, homosexuality, the holocaust etc., etc. You are one of a long line of men called to celibacy because of Who you are and what you are called to do. Your bride is the Church.  St. Francis turned away men he saw were incapable of celibacy. He recognized that GOD called them to married life, not Holy Orders.  Would our Lord do less? It is NOT scandalous to hold priests to their vows.  It is scandalous that there is so little faith that God cannot work His grace in priests souls! (But not really, because Pope Leo told us we were handed over to Satan in the twentieth century and wrote the prayer to St. Michael the Archangel in response.)  Wishing to have both worlds is a temptation of Satan.  Believe me it is hard enough to be a believer and be married, never mind be a PRIEST.  Start going out on dates with Our Lord and Lady!  Watch movies of the Saints!  Sit before our Lord in the Eucharist and BEG him to drown you in the rays of His grace that emanate from it.  Chastise parishioners who would be soft of this issue and tempt any priest away from this gift and remind them of their obligation to pray for you.  Form Holy, Joyful friendship with Priests and Nuns and faithful Lay men and women.  Accept hugs from your parishioners!  Invite yourself over to dinner!  Fill that void with YOUR CHILDREN, father! and Your GOD!  I pray for you that you are healed of this feeling.  It is not from God. We have let you down.

PAm., it sounds like you think you are God!!  How can you judge someone who is living in the ministry.  Are you a lady priestess?  Read your Bible and do pray before answering any more comments.

Fr. George, What are you interpreting as judging? I am sorry if you felt the comments were judging you. They were not a judgment of you. They were questionning the reasoning. As a sister in Christ, am I not allowed to do this?  We are called to keep each other on the straight and narrow. And are priests never to be questionned? What about Pope Leo’s vision? You still haven’t responded to that. I know I’m NOT God and I am old enough to have seen our faith before this insanity and division and to have had a devout mother who knew her faith and passed it on. I do read my Bible, go to daily mass and pray. I thank you for becoming a priest and I pray for your vocation and soul.

I salute Fr. Bain and all religious who come out against the denial of sexuality in the Church.  The hidden sexuality of priests only adds to the problem of sexuality hidden and not discussed opening in society…  thus lots of sexual violence, guilt, and discrimination remain.  We need more religious like fr. Bain to bring the Church out of the dark ages who are open about human sexuality as being a gift not a problem.  When sexuality is respected so too will the Church honor and respect women as equals in all ways.  More and more people are leavng the Church because of its medieval attitudes and this is the real tragedy because they find no path to God, sacredness, and the beauty of their souls.  Lets pray for more religious to bring the Church out of the closet into the modern era of human rights, values, truth, God’s love for all!

Bruce Davis, Christ is the same yesterday, today and forever.  If you consider that medieval perhaps the problem is you. Get behind me Satan!

In regards to Fr. Cutie, as a Catholic priest myself of 32 years, I could not agree more with this article.  Yes, celibacy and its obvious implications, is a sacrifice.  I feel it is a form of martyrdom for the kingdom of God. We choose freely to die to ourselves so that something else may rise within us, through God’s grace. The Church asks much of us priests but we do not go blindly into this vocation - Christ gives the grace and Christ offers forgiveness for our human failings. Fr. Cutie’s self-serving justification is not to be condemend but rather to be sad over this. When tempted, we are in the driver’s seat as it were. It is up to us to establsh boundaries, to seek humility, to pray for the grace of faithfulness, to keep the big picture in mind and our priestly role in its proper perspective.

I liked Father Bain’s comment regarding the saint that fasted, living only on Holy Communion.  I’m sure it left him much more time to do even more things—in today’s age, that would mean more Administrative duties!

Father’s point was well taken.  Pam, please bear in mind, celibacy is a discipline of the Church, not a dogma or doctrine.  It can be changed.  Hopefully, we are having these discussions to weigh in as to “should it be changed”. 

As I’ve stated, Father Bain’s points are well taken, at least with this Catholic.

First, Pam, I think you were responding to a comment by “George” thinking it was from me.  It was NOT.  However, regardless of your age or background, you apparently are unaware that psychological testing, spiritual assessments, vocational testing, “readiness for ministry” tests, etc. are all now part of the mandated process that everyone goes through to enter Religious life as a brother, friar, sister, nun or to become a priest—at least in the United States.  I’m sorry if this offends your personal piety, but it’s the reality and given the recent scandals that affect our Church—the molested children, the large numbers of sisters and nuns (there is a difference even though both are called “sister”) who have been molested while under vows or raped—the numbers of inappropriate sexual relationships between age-consenting adults vowed to chastity or promised to celibacy—all I can say is THANK GOD!!!

Many guys who seek diocesan Priesthood or Religious Life are very stable and make wonderful secular priests or Religious.  On the other hand, many have deep seeded psychological, emotional and/or spiritual issues which are not readily apparent without the in-depth evaluations which the Church, at least in this country, mandates.

While not always true, many of the Religious brothers and priests as well as “secular” priests who molested children, etc. entered formation and “orders” or secular priesthood prior to the newer evaluation methods were put in place. 

Father Robert George

Yes, Christ is the same yesterday, today, and forever, and yes, the Church at the same time did modify its midlevel stances on slavery, usury, and so on, and, yes, it can modify is long held stance on mandatory celibacy for secular priests.  Presently, the subject is far from closed at the Vatican.  Taking one side or the other most certainly does not render one in need of going to confession. On the contrary, it shows a great love and concern for the welfare of the Church.

Pam,

Reading your comments, particularly…

“Our priesthood is Sacred.  It is a rare calling.  The hands of the man who is ordained turns bread and wine to the Body and Blood of Christ!  Their words remove sin! They are NOT just another man! Their heart and soul are HIS”... and, 

“if he is so deceitful as to hide his affairs and to ask others to cooperate in hiding them, he is NOT a holy man.  Remember, Satan was given the twentieth century to try to destroy the Church.  Men like this have a father who knows the Word well, but they show by their actions and resistance or unwillingness to pray for or accept God’s grace, that He is not their Father”...

Reading your condemnation of Fr. Cutie, I’d like to hear your thoughts on Fr. Marciel… founder of the Legion of Christ of which this newspaper, the ‘National Catholic Register’ is an apostolate. An entire religious congregation and thousands upon thousands of people were affected by Fr. Marciel’s actions.

Fr. George, You are right. I did think that comment was from you.  Sorry. My “personal sense of piety” is not offended that there are evaluations.  It is however, when some think psychology is the solution when we know Who the solution is and especially when they are our spiritual leaders. And I do not assume you are one who does that.
Father Bain and Sandra, I am aware that celibacy is not dogma.  But Fr. Bain’s example is not at all parallel.  The grace of living on the Body of Christ is granted to those who reach an extraordinary level of holiness and is a gift from God to that individual soul.  The grace to be faithful to the vows of matrimony and holy orders are granted to everyone who receives those sacraments in the state of grace.  We believe that as Catholics. It is an act of faith. Fr. Bain, I believe you would benefit from confession because you are so concerned with the flesh.  You have been given a great gift that you do not seem to want or understand and what is at the root of it seems to be the desire for conjugal love.  Set your sights on things above and help the laity get there too.  There are alot of things the Church “could” do, but if they aren’t bringing us closer to sanctity but actually taking us back to the flesh they shouldn’t do it.  I will remind you again about Pope Leo XIII vision. It isn’t coincidence that this discussion is coming up now in the Church. Did the words about the sacredness of your calling make no impression at all?  I wish your love and welfare was for the Church, but it seems more rooted in your sexual cravings which are actually distracting you.
Brenda,  Fr. Maciel lived in that time when Satan was given his hundred years and we are living with the consequences of that.  I think all priests who fall like that have given into temptations and whether that was God’s will or not is not mine to decide.  They may had to have fallen like Judas or they may have just neglected and abused the graces they were given. This is one of the reasons I am speaking frankly to Fr. Bain.  (I never really commented on Fr. Cutie specifically. The remark you are referring to was about someone in formation who was in a relationship.)  If a priest’s focus is drifting into areas that can diminish his grace and love of the Lord and his vocation, we should point out that we see it. Personally I find it extremely problematic that an order founded by Fr. Maciel and found to have been formed in such an improper fashion would be allowed to be in control of the media and teaching.  If it were my decision the whole order would be disbanded and each priest individually reevaluated for their own good. The media and teaching are such powerful tools for good or evil that it would take a very sacred order to earn my trust with them. I struggle to see the bad seed bearing good fruit in this. Certainly the allegations of sexual abuse and homosexual relations in the order and a tendancy to overlook grave sin casts a long shadow on the integrity of the order in dealing with the media or school children. But the decision isn’t mine.  God gave that to Pope Benedict and he has given him the insight, grace and responsibility to deal with it and he is well aware that he is held responsible for his decisions. So I pray for our Pope and those he has chosen to oversee the process and I pray for all the holy Legionaries who have been devastated by this.  And I pray for God’s healing love for all of us.

Pam, I really don’t know why you are bring up Pope Leo XIII, whom many of us admire.  But we are all in agreement here that currently we have a celibate priesthood, and any offense against that celibacy must be confessed and forgiven.  But, to discuss what the priesthood in the Catholic Church “might” be in the future is not a sin.
It is conceivable that a future priesthood in the Catholic Church could have a dual path: celibates and marrieds.  Probably not likely, but possible.
Pope Leo XIII would not have objected to sacramental married love.  Therefore, if Rome ever decided that the Western Rite was going to accept married priests, there would not be one thing sinful about it.

Pam,

I do hope you have other outlets for your pontifications, otherwise I do think you may implode!

Does every priest receive the gift of preaching at ordination? Of course not, and no matter how hard he might try, the grace to preach as well as other priests who were given the gift is simply not there. Celibacy is no different. Some priest are celibate with ease, others with the greatest of difficulty.  It is highly judgmental to assume that the priest who is struggling with celibacy is somehow not a holy priest and is spiritually inferior to those priests who don’t struggle. I know priests who make a Holy Hour and pray the rosary every day, yet struggle terribly with celibacy.  It is so clear they would be much better priests if they were married.  All the energy that should be going into serving the Church is wasted on a profound struggle against their nature.

I am a single, chaste layman approaching his 50th birthday. It is possible to be at peace and live a fulfilling life if one really and truly trusts God and asks God for the graces necessary for the single life, lay or ordained.

We live in a time of significant addiction: drugs are everywhere; pornography fills the print media, the net and the airwaves; people’s sense of entitlement is off the scale - i.e., we want what we want and we want it yesterday and it doesn’t matter if someone else suffers as long as I get what I want!

No one is pretending it’s easy to live the Christian life. It is, however, entirely possible to be single and filled with a deep serenity that only God can give. God gives us every measure of support that we may truly require in order to resist temptation. We have but to ask. When we require forgiveness, God comes to our rescue in the sacrament of penance. God gives His very life to us in the Eucharist. He gives us the opportunity to serve our fellow brothers and sisters. God invites us to die to self and thus live forever.

There is one issue that Albert Cutié cannot avoid, as hard as he may try. He made a promise to God, and he broke that promise. If he tries to justify his breaking that promise by attempting to create distractions, e.g., by criticizing celibacy, how can he expect his child(ren) to keep their promises in life when he’s not prepared to honestly address his errors nor honour his commitments? What makes the Episcopalians think that he will honour his promise to that communion? What makes his wife think he will honour their vows when he broke his equally serious priestly vow in order to build a house… on sand?

Alberto Cutié has married the “other woman”. Albert Cutié can ask for God’s forgiveness, but he’ll then have to put his life in order. Any relationship founded on a lie will degenerate into misery, sooner or later. And, when Alberto Cutié again turns to the god of his own making for absolution, will he find the acceptance for which he’s looking and just make life more miserable for himself and others, or will he finally take responsibility for his actions and thus find a measure of real peace in this life?

In God’s love we can make peace with our human limitations and have a profound experience of the depths of God’s peace inside of us.  We are called to bring this peace into the world.  This is our service. 
Judging one person’s limits as better or worse then another, our preoccupation with sin and the devil are really just projections of our own shadow and personality structure.  This is a big waste of time, energy, and just feeds this darkness in ourselves and the world. 
The spiritual path through our devotion and receiving God’s love heals our and the world’s darkness.  Let us find our own humility, emptiness, and truth…then we find the vastness of God’s wonder in our hearts and the heart of all….

Yes, when Father Cutie finally accepted the reality that God had not given him the gift of celibacy and yet he was indeed called to be a priest he found peace.  He stopped trying to be what God had not given him the gift to be - remember the Catholic Church believes celibacy is a special gift - and joined a Church where he could honor his God given nature and his call to be a priest.

And please, everyone, stop accusing him of breaking his promise. One cannot give what one does not have no matter how sincere the promise!
Father Richard Bain

What I expect is Fr. Cutie to justify his actions through overemphasizing the “suppressive” effects of mandatory celibacy.  Never mind the fact that he also committed pre-marital sexual relations, though he may also try make the stretch that he was in effect “driven” to do these things after “struggling” with his commitment to celibacy.

I read a book for engaged and newly married couples by Fr. Cutie in which he recounted his regularly going to the beach to pray Evening Prayer, at which times he described happening to see beautiful women walk by on the beach while he was there.  He does this to provide a personal anecdote to dovetail into talking about how one can look at others of the opposite sex without it necessarily being sinful.  If he regularly put himself into these situations, however, I wonder how much of any “struggle” he has gone through was self-imposed, and then later used to justify certain actions.  Unfortunately, having “struggled” with something is too often used as a get-out-of-jail-free card.  I “struggled” with this…before I did it.

1 Cor. 7:9 “but if they cannot exercise self-control they should marry, for it is better to marry than to be on fire.”  I don’t see here an exception clause for Roman Catholic priests!

Dear Father Richard Bain,

Are you serious?  Are you actually citing this verse with regard to Fr. Cutie’s situation?  If so, it must be unfortunate for your case that Paul did not say, “and, before you do get married, go ahead and feel free to go roll around on the beach together in public.”

There’s quite a difference between the “unmarried and widows” whom Paul is addressing here and Catholic priests, who have already taken the commitment not to be married.  Few would be blaming Fr. Cutie for anything now if he had gone about seeking voluntary laicisation before he did get married.  And, there’s the inconvenient truth that before he did get married, he engaged in premarital relations.  These are the two points that have cause the most scandal considering that he was a priest and that he preached often about such matters.  And, one wonders that if he had never been caught whether he would have continued carrying out his life as a Catholic priest, so many are also questioning the potential deception in the whole matter, which he is now attempting to turn around in painting himself as the repressed victim of mandatory celibacy.  So, people aren’t scandalized simply by the fact that there’s this priest who ended up marrying, so it makes no sense to cite 1 Cor. 7:9 with regard to the matter, unless you are among those who is trying to turn the story around and make it seem like the only issue is how Fr. Cutie was victimized by the Catholic Church and its mandatory celibacy.

One Lent I was given the grace to give up TV, newspapers, sweets, alchole, and cigarettes, to fast a day and a half a week from all food, and to made a Holy Hour and attend Mass each day.  This was before I went into the seminary.  Having been given the grace to do all that, it was amazingly easy.  There was absolutely no struggle.  Yet, there have been Lents when I was not given the grace to give up one of those things and after struggling for a week I had to find out what God really wanted me to do for Lent.
You are not a priest and thus can’t know but can only assume or believe that every priest has been given the special gift of celibacy.  The priest alone knows if he has the gift and many say they do not – no matter how many Holy Hours they make, friends they have, or families that invite them into their homes.  Their whole DNA pulls them to having a “suitable partner”, as God proclaimed.  So, yes, I am serious, if Father Cutie were sexually active as a celibate, then 1 Cor. 7:9 applied to his situation is the strongest terms.   
If you really care for the Church, you need to redirect your energy on this subject and begin praying that the Catholic Church moves to optional celibacy for secular priests.  This would please Our Lord greatly!

@Brenda. It’s obvious why I bring up Pope Leo.  Did you not read my comments about his vision?  These sexual struggles of men committed to God are crosses and temptations.  This is not a coincidence that these things are happening at this time.  How this is playing out in society IS often sinful.  You are being disengenuous saying you are only talking about what might be.
@Sandra. Pontifications? Spin, spin, spin.
@Fr. Bain.  Are you actually a Catholic priest or just posting under that name?  All these priests you know who are struggling, how up front were they in the formation process?  Are you of the mindset that men are just animals and have no control over these things?  I love the line, “finally accepted that God had not given him the gift…” that is so much better than “finally quit confessing, or praying for grace, or avoiding occasions of sin, or filling his time with exercise activities that burned off some energy or committing himself to activities that reminded him about why he chose to become a priest, or seeking help from his spiritual director”.  That is called rationalizing. You seem to have made up your mind on this issue.  And so many comments show a lack of Faith in God who loves His priests very much. You are advocating not taking up your cross. If some priests are lacking in some gifts more than others, it doesn’t mean they just throw in the towel! Bearing the cross for love of Christ is so pleasing to Him and our Church has always taught that sacrifices bring graces to souls. It is a mystery of our faith.  So many saints teach us the value of suffering and when we have a cross and truly wish to overcome it, they witness how God DOES lift the cross in His time.  You are stretching for biblical support, too. How about,“Unless you deny yourself and take up your cross and follow me you can not be my disciple.” Everything you have written makes me wonder if you even believe in God’s grace.

If he didn’t have the gift, then, he should not have made the promise.  Lots of people have promised to live as celibates and God has given them the grace to follow through.  All that is needful is to keep focused on Jesus.

Pam, it appears that you have a distain for the married life.  You know - marriage is also a Sacrament and without there would be NO church to need the ministry of priests.  I fear that the judgmental ones are in the greatest jeopardy.  The Church did not ask the clergy to be celibate for many years, so why is it such an issue now?  Good solid Christian families will keep the Universal Church alive and well.

To all,

I want to thank Jimmy Akin and the National Catholic Register for allowing me to post here and I want to thank all of you whom I’ve “met” in just a little way in this online forum, but the level of discussion has moved, somewhat, beyond civility and many don’t seem to be seeking understanding, but rather to argue specific positions and people seem to respecting each other less and less.

I’d like to make a few observations based on my participation on the boards here and in conversation with some very pious lay people over the years.

For the record, some of you (laypersons) seem to see priests as superhuman because of our ordination.  God, I guess I wish that were so, but God chooses and calls human men.  There was only one Person who walked this earth without sin, Jesus Christ and, our Church teaches, the Virgin Mary, who has Mother of God (Jesus) was conceived without sin. But, priests are not literally Jesus Christ and we certainly aren’t the Virgin Mary <LOL>. So, all of us come with our issues and in our humanity.  Unfortunately, for some that is more problematic than others, especially in areas of sexuality—it seems.

The “all male club” culture that our church fosters by its current policy has the unintended consequence of attracting many to Religious Life and to secular priesthood who are psycho-sexually immature (which is a common characteristic of both pedophiles, those attracted to pre-pubescent children and ephebophiles, those attracted to post-pubescent teenagers) or those who have not fully accepted their homosexual orientation and are attempting to overcome it by entering Religious Life or the “secular” priesthood—with the false idea that these issues will somehow “magically” disappear through prayer and fasting, perhaps extreme religiosity or extreme religious orthodoxy. 

We see the results of this in the ongoing worldwide scandals affecting our Church and even in the inappropriate way Bishops and Religious Superiors dealt with the issues for so many years.  One of the most staunch defenders of Orthodoxy, the founder of the community which operates this website and publishes the related magazine, was one of the worst offenders, apparently a sociopath judging from his behavior.

Men and women made it into communities years ago because these issues of human sexuality were often deeply locked away.  Candidates knew that they wanted to enter, if male, “secular priesthood” or Religous Life as a priest or brother and, if female, a sister or a nun.  In either case, those with issues often were smart enough to know that if those issues “got out”, they’d be declined, so those smart enough to do so, knew how to behave and what was safe to say or not say.

Currently, men make it into “secular” priesthood or Religious Life because, although we pray and reflect, from a practical perspective we have to rely on recommendations from priests, professors, family, etc., spiritual direction reflections, personality assessments and psychological testing such as the MMPI II. 

Some men prove suitable to “secular” priesthood and some do not.  The same goes for those—male or female—who enter Religious Life.

Some inappropriate individuals make it through the intensive process, because, contrary to the claims of these tests’authors, most of them can be “faked” especially in areas of sexuality if one is consistent in how one answers and these individuals are often very good at impressing human evaluators of their appropriateness by keeping their “dark side” hidden.  I’m convinced that many of these folks sincerely wanted to overcome their “dark side”, which is what attracted them to priesthood or Religious Life in the first place.

In the case of those with deep disorders that we didn’t catch in the candidacy process or during formation, the internal prayer, fasting and religiosity to deal with overcoming issues often has the effect of just the opposite.  It makes the issues stronger and more problematic rather than taking them away, which just compounds the problem.

This is not say all of us struggle equally with this issue. I certainly have been happy and fulfilled living my vows and I believe most of us are whether we’re in Religious Life or “secular” priesthood.  But all of us “on the inside” know men who are not.

I guess my reason for this post is my own frustration with how some of you think that simply prayer and fasting and a renewed commitment to holiness resolves the issue or telling a priest to “go to confession” and to seek to serve his flock harder will resolve the issue.  And, I should carefully mention, that some of the most respected, traditionalists and defenders of Catholic conservationism are among those who struggle the most or “slip” most in secret.

I’m not defending Cutié.  What he did was morally wrong!  What he did was a disgrace!  If I had the opportunity to give Spiritual Direction during the period and he told me he was going to join our Episcopalian brothers and sisters, I would have recommended a long period of absence from any public ministry and then that he go quietly if he was going at all.

I suggest everyone PRAY for Father Cutié—and I still use the title because it’s the title for an Episcopalian priest as well—and pray for those who struggle so much with issues like these…and for those of us who have to live with them or treat them and help them restore a right relationship with God.

Thanks again…and God bless all of you!

Father Robert George

P.S.—To avoid any confusion, I am not also posting as “George”—that’s another person.

@George, How do you get a disdain for married life out of any of my comments?
Priests ARE already married. That point seems to be lost in this discussion.
@Fr. George. It seems you are saying that God is not the solution to psycho sexual problems, to temptations, etc.  Certainly He is not if we lack faith because we have to believe before he can help us. But if with faith He is still not the answer and carrying the cross is not the answer, then who or what is?  Do you agree that alot of the struggle has to do with the culture that has developed over the twentieth century and man getting further from God?  How many priests watch the same kind of tv as every other American?  Alot, I bet. If holy men fall and sin, it is not just a physical failure.  It is spiritual too.  We aren’t praying enough for our priests and are partly to blame.  But because some fall doesn’t mean making everything MORE complicated is the solution - priests dating, priests with bad marriages, priests with women creating intrigue, priests whose kids or wives are troublemakers, ostracized, picked on etc., etc. Jesus is a jealous lover. He expected everyone He called to drop everything and leave it all behind to follow Him.  Because the system isn’t fool proof doesn’t mean introducing more complexities will make it better. It just highlights that the cross is part of being a follower of Jesus.

Pam, what u talking about?  He never said that God didn’t have anything to do with anything, but what he’s talking about is how the church does things now.  We’re in the twenty-first century, not our superstious past.  You’d be shocked, I guess, at just how our church operates now and well and I guess that’s all I can say.

These mental worlds full of our judgements and self righteousness that we give such importance to are merely clouds obscuring God’s wonder inside of us.  These discussions in the name of religious correctness are such a diversion from the truth.  In our deep emptiness of the heart we discover the meaning of “poverty”.  In our deep emptiness of the heart we discover a great light which is our source of “chastity”.  And as we commit our awareness to this deep emptiness of the heart we are learning about “obedience”.  I imagine a church much more concerned about this profound love then the ego battles of who is right and who is wrong.  Our ego, the church’s ego is the problem!  Let us give ourselves to simplicity and peace… ...

Bruce, This is not about ego for me.  This is about the Truth under attack. God is not the answer?  Holiness is not the answer?  Isn’t that apostasy? I have received grace and know it is fragile.  It can not be abused and stay around.  When it is lost I know it can be recovered, but it is in God’s time.  I have also seen how the Church will sacrifice a layperson to cover for a priest. It is so anti-Christ! I feel compelled to speak. We have the vision of Pope Leo as well to help us recognize attacks on chastity, love, faith, truth.  Letting the lie ferment is how we have abortion, homosexual marriage etc.  We are called to witness to the truth. Do you agree with that??

I’m sorry, your whole paragraph is only about ego, preserving your belief system and identity.  God, finally is about letting go of this identity we so firmly hold, defend, and argue about.  God is spirit and so are we.  This spirit is found in our hearts where there are no thoughts but pure presence.  The presence is all, totally present, true.  There is so much God but we wouldn’t know it in the Church today.  Christ is eternal but the church is all too human with its power, greed, institional ways. I pray for less church and more appreciation of the Sacraments.  Here is so much heart for each of us to discover.  This is the path, within.  Let us let go of all our judgements, self importance, and be as deeply in our hearts as we can.  In humility, our emptiness, our thoughts stop, and God begins, unending…

Did any Saint struggle with the commitment to the vow of celibacy?  Is a gift from God something that excludes struggle?  If that is the case, I could foresee many parents saying that their children are not gifts because they cause much financial and emotional sacrifice and they should have the right to abandon them because if they were indeed gifts, they would not have to struggle to support them.  I recall that St. Francis was severely tempted against celibacy and his struggle to remain continent glorified God and the temptation left him.  I also recall that he brought a priest living in scandal back to holiness, not through chastisement, but through the recognition of the priest’s holy office. 

The call to live any state in life in the Catholic Church, requires confidence in what the Church teaches as being the teaching of Jesus Christ, Himself.  If you do not have that confidence, then how can the children and the flock given to you have confidence in what the Church teaches in regards to faith and morals.

Our modern age seems hell bent on impaling its citizens upon every experience that has been held back on grounds of faith and morals.  I’m disheartened by religious and lay faithful who seem bent on the same path.  I’m deeply appreciative of all those who struggle in their state in life, to recognize that the Church has placed boundaries in regards to how that state in life is to be lived, both for your sake and for ours.  I praise God for the gift of the celibate priesthood and I pray that He will give all the Grace required to those struggling to live it with confidence and gratitude.

@Pam,

This will be my last post here, I think. I’ve been trying, without much luck, to think of a more pastoral way to say this and I’m at a loss.

I don’t know you at all other than what you reveal about your worldview from your posts here.  From your comments here, if they reflect your real views, you live in a world that is completely different from the real world in which the Church itself operates and why we do what we do to try and keep unsuitable individuals from hurting others or disrupting community life (which is what the whole testing and evaluation process is about).  You basically have no idea what you’re talking about— and so I’m done.

It’s a waste of my time to go any further and I have too many pastoral duties and other responsibilities.

God bless you on your journey.

In Christ,
Father Robert George

Fr. George, I am sorry you feel that way.  My world view is that no matter what the world is doing, we are called to follow Christ. That is the whole point of the spiritual journey.  We are in the world, not of it.  You were never called to fit in with the “real world”. You were called to fit in with Heaven.  You seem to not want to face Pope Leo’s vision and how it has affected us all - priests and laity.  People are far from God now.  Letting the popular culture decide what is right and wrong is following a false God.  You are trying to control things only God can control instead of seeking after the holiness that brings it about through HIM.  In the evaluation process are any women evaluating?  It could help alot.  Different perspectives, insights and all.
Bruce: Not ego, Bruce, TRUTH of Christ’s teaching.  What you seem to have let go of is your conscience.  Satan will leave you alone if you are no threat. Peace of Christ to everyone.  There is an obvious DEEP divide here. Thank you God that you are God and we are not!

God Bless You, Fr. George.  Pam, you are living in a bubble and only the Dear Lord Jesus is going to penetrate it.  May you find true salvation in Jesus.

God bless and help the Clergy with all the laity as judge and jury, my heart breaks for them.
The Byzantines, Maronites and the Eastern Orthodox Clergy might be high offended at some of these blogs.  They are serving the Church as are the Roman Catholic Clergy and they are perfectly happy with their families.  “It is not good that man should be alone.”

George, my remarks aren’t aimed at other rites.  They are raised in a faith from their youth that prepares them for the culture of their faith.  Members of our faith are creating stumbling blocks to the vows our priests have taken. It is a spiritual truth that when you embrace your cross it doesn’t seem a cross any more.  What we have are people living half committed lives because someone is holding a promise of a change in the Church position on married priests.  Recognizing that and asking our priests to focus on Jesus and not their cross is not living in a bubble.

Fr. George, I read your post on the other Fr. Cutie blog - your response to the brother who looks at his vows “metaphysically”. We agree completely on that so maybe somehow there is some misunderstanding between us and we are alot closer in our beliefs?

I think Father Cutie got caught it is also rumored he had a gay lover for years. I am sad that he left but glad he did. We need to have a clearing and cleansing of the priesthood. This man wrote this book for the American dollar I am doubting he is living in peace, or he let it go. It is he who has brought this up-again.

It’s ironic that a man is reprimanded for falling in love with a woman while wanting to continue to serve Christ and his religious beliefs.  Yes, he should have come out on his own and devulged his desires and left the priesthood and moved on as he did to the Episcopalean Church vs. being caught by a paparazzi. Being in the mayor spotlight in South Florida with the Archdiocese it was a no-win situation.  Still, he should have gone public on his own.  BUT, his decisions to seek a regular life with a woman is partly based on his disgust and dissapointment of the antiquated laws and rules of the Catholic Church.  Rather than address the Cutie book as self-justifying, how can the Catholic Church throw stones at a man who decided to marry a woman and go to another sector of Christianity when the Catholic Church itself has failed and refuses to address in full exposure it’s coverup, involvement and lies as to sexual abuse by priests?  I’d take any day a man who fell in love with a woman vs. a priest who abused his power and sexually abusing a child!  SHAME ON YOU.

I find it ironic that because of what everyone agrees is a Church tradition (small t) and only a practice, but one rooted in wanting to ordain only those who are so God-obssessed that they emulate Christ and some of the prophets and many saints, people will cheer on men breaking their promises or vows—their freely given word of honor- to—like in Cutie’s case—seek to be a member of the clergy in a Church (the Episcopal) that is in the process of trashing basic moral teachings of all Christianity to do with family and the sacredness of human life.
  It makes me wonder if many now former Catholic priests made their vows or promises out of an ego-driven desire to be a priest and they are now just continuing down the path of serving their own egos, instead of God, as clerical members of another church instead of the Catholic Church. Since a Catholic priest can be laicized and is usually highly educated (making employment in educational, counseling, or helping professions quite easy) and, as everyone says, there is no shortage of married clergy, one wonders the motivation of men who MUST have that clerical collar.

  This may sound judgemental, but freely given vows or promises given in public are public acts meant for the public to evaluate one’s fidelity to them.
  The trouble is that today people will rationalize and justify the breaking of vows or promises either because of their own having done the same or fear they are too weak to keep their own word of honor if pledged.
  A generation or two ago public promise-breakers of any sort would be rightly and justly ridiculed and ostracized. Our society was much better off when you could count on people having a sense of honor that included the keeping of one’s word, no matter the personal cost or vagaries of circumstances.

Pam, I think you are the saddest representative of any church.  You should read the Bible and learn to understand it along with the man made canons of the church. I am like Fr. George, this is my last comment.  God help you and the lady who said someone would go to hell for marrying.  It sure beats all of the homosexual secret affairs.

.....and twenty - thirty years ago Catholic priests, under the umbrella protection, secrecy and coverup of the church, were getting away with sexually abusing and molesting young innocent and vulnerable boys for their own sick carnal sexual deviant desires all the time under the intimidation of being recognized as priests, the representatives of Christ.  Fr. Cutie admitted his mistakes and moved on.  After all, his wrongdoing was that he ventured out of his vows as a priest, thus, he left the Catholic priesthood. In comparison, many deviant Catholic priests who sexually abused minors have not admited, have not repented, continue to deny and continue to live and act as priests all UNDER the protection of secrecy and coverup of the Catholic church all the way from the Vatican to the local parishes.

Deacon Bresnahan, it might benefit you to remember that there’s a vast gulf between feeling and expressing mercy toward a sinner, and “cheering on” his sins. Most of us who find ourselves disinclined to unilaterally condemn this man have not defended his sins as anything other than sins…typically sins to which many of us are ourselves strongly tempted from time to time, but sins nonetheless.

I think Fr Cutie, when knowing he was not able to be faithful to the obedience also in celibacy he had declared to his Bishop when he was ordained by the Bishop (representing Christ) for we Catholics, should have left the priesthood. 
He was neither honest, nor noble in any of what he did ..
and now he has decided, like many’ to make money from people who no doubt ‘will follow him’...—tragedy is past Mr. Cutie knows in his soul what he did was wrong and now he is ‘avenging’.. it is just another one of the many tragedies of man’s fallen nature ..

If someone does not want to enter the priesthood or religious life..for goodness sake - we beg you - DONT…> MARRY, BECOME THE HEAD OF A COMPANY.. OR WHATEVER BUT STOP STOP TRYING TO WATER DOWN WHAT CHRIST INSTITUED…AND NO MARRIED CATHOLIC PRIESTS WONT HAPPEN. VEN. JPII MADE THAT CLEAR - I too am a religious and by the grace of God have remained faithful - I am absolutely happy, at peace and have true freedom-
so I dont buy what Cutie is trying to project and others..
Noone forces anyone to enter religious life - so the simple answer is ..if you dont think you can make it - dont even start…..stay home, be prayerful, live your life - but dont dont use the Church to your own ends..—- and then lie..

@ Deacon John, sometimes I think when we got rid of duelling we lost some good qualities as well.  As you may recall, most duels were fought for the sake of honour. (I am not in favour of duelling per se, but maybe it could have been replaced)  There seems to be no sense of honour any more.  When I was a teacher, kids proudly showed me pictures of their kids born out of wedlock, whom I am supporting with my tax dollars.

Wow, Maria, you sound awfully angry to be a servant religious!!

George
- no not angry .. but tired of men (and some women) using every excuse in the book but the real one.. and then in the case of Mr. Cutie taboot writes a book against the Church of which he said he had nothing against..
so who is kidding who.. and how much should people who try to practise their Faith have to take-.. yes of course forgive 70 x7 . and we all must .. but we do have the right to some ‘righteous anger’ and just maybe if some of these people who were starting ‘to fall of course’ met some fellow friends/religious who ‘spoke with more than political correctness’ but with strong charity—- which isnt always saying ‘yes’.. they would have made it… \
so dont agree—-  even The Lord got angry—

I understand people ‘not making it’ and leaving.. I dont accept however people not being honest, being deceitful and then taboot using The Church to make money ... as the present situation.

Maria, I don’t think Fr. Cutie is the only one making money from the church.  I have worked in churches and have seen flagrant misuse of funds.  Let’s face it - crucifying this man surely isn’t going to cure the wrongs and sins that exist in the church, even in religious orders!  Maybe your anger is directed at the wrong person?

Yes George agreed… and outside of churches too…
I think you are misreading what is happening here .... I (and I dont believe the vast majority of those who disagree with his methodology)am not ‘angry’ at this man and you continue to push this envelope ...
we pract RC;s have the right to be upset——to forgive does not mean to ‘pretend things are all ok’.... that is why north american has become so neurotic .. because people ‘are being molded’ to never react, to accept all- and then if they dont’ they are told they are… etc..
I think you understand.
Wrong is wrong George, and right is right… noone should condemn anyone . only God will judge us all on the last day ...but I do have the right to be upset when I see a former priest or whoever using the Church as he is to ‘now make money from it’ .. as this is his bottom line and I think you know that.

George, I consider the source.  God bless. We have been under attack for one hundred years.  It is time for us to move out from under the lust, sensuality, sin and darkness.  Nothing is impossible with God.  God is light and in Him there is no darkness. Peace.

Pam - one hundred years??  The church has been under attack since our Lord was crucified!!

Pam, you must be very unhappy to be so condescending to everyone else, even the clergy.  Since you know more than everyone else, why don’t you start your own blog???

This is not just an issue about priests and vowels of celibacy!  I am a married woman and out of respect for myself I do not allow my husband to cavort with me on the beach or put his hand down any of my clothing in public.  Priest are human and I do not fault the man for falling in love, but if he were in love, I would think that he would have treated the woman he loved with a little bit more dignity and respect than getting caught with his hands carressing her bottom with his hand under her swim suit for all of the public to view.  It sounds much more like lust than love to me.

The grass is always greener on the other side isn’t it?  I’m curious how the various priests who’ve responded in favor of relaxing the celibacy requirement would instruct me if due to illness or injury or other cause my wife and I were unable to continue marital relations?  Would it be okay to divorce?  Could I just get a mistress on the side?  How about if “we just don’t love each other any more?”  Is it okay to go out and get someone more satisfying?  How about all the single people with urges?  How should they remain chaste?  Aren’t they in effect “celibate” as well?  Well yes they have the option to get married you may argue, but do they?  Our culture today treats marriage as some sort of default, something you just do after school?  Perhaps part of the reason for the greater than 50% divorce rate is that many people who got married really shouldn’t have.  Then again that rate will likely change since more and more young people today aren’t getting married but just “shacking up” as we used to say.

Jesus knew that marriage would be difficult which is why he made it a Sacrament, blessing it with the graces necessary to sustain couples through the difficult times.  Likewise the ordained priesthood is a Sacrament, carrying with it the graces necessary.  One poster mentioned that celibacy is a gift which not everyone who may be called to the priesthood has been given.  That point is debateable, nevertheless, I highly doubt that Jesus would refuse such a gift to anyone who humbly asks for it.

Pam - one hundred years??  The church has been under attack since our Lord was crucified!!

I think Pam was making a specific remark relating to the prophetic words of Pope Leo XIII.  Indeed the Church has been under attack since the crucifixion of Christ, for that matter mankind has been under attack from the devil since he was kicked out of Heaven.

what a silly and biased article.  didn’t even read the book, did ya?  many many many facts wrong in this article.  those who are so quick to judge, I’d recommend reading the book!

God Bless Fr. Cutie and his beautiful wife.

Fr Cutie went into the Roman-rite priesthood knowing the demands of celibacy. His girlfriend was a single mother and he is now married civilly- It doesn’t seem like the Church and its guidelines really mattered.

My husband is a Byzantine Catholic priest where the tradition of married men becoming priests is 2,000 years old (except for monks and bishops) Fr Cutie comes from a long tradition of priestly celibacy- and no matter what- after ordination to the diaconate, the man ‘stays the way he is.’ sad story

remnantofremnant.blogspot.com

Wow.  I’ve just spent over an hour reading all the posts here.  It’s both sad and encouraging at the same time.
Fr. Robert G., know you have been heard and understood.  It never ceases to amaze me how frequently people who have an ideological understanding of a the Church rebuff those who live in her raw reality.  I know what you write is genuine because I too have worked with priests and counseled them through struggles.
Celibacy will be addressed one way or the other.  I understand the massive logistical problems that will need to be addressed in preparation for the relaxing of this requirement.  I doubt we will see this in my lifetime, but the time will come because the need is dire.
What most Catholics don’t understand is the history of they why behind celibacy.  It served its purpose in its time, but in this world we live in, celibacy is counter productive.  As it stands today, in order to eliminate this requirement all priests who have taken vows and promises of celibacy will be held to their respective vows/promises while incoming priests will have the option.  I envision something like a revolt taking place should this happen, but I do believe that with preparation and much prayer, priests will understand and accept this in time.  Like the Eastern Churches, the state a man is in when he makes his vows/promises is the state he will remain in, so a man would have to be married before ordination if he doesn’t feel called to live out his priesthood celibately.  We know the Church moves very slowly, but we also know that the Church responds to the Spirit and the Spirit is moving us always into eternity for good of all creation.  Married priests are need for various reasons, not the least of which is that good, solid, loving, dedicated, committed, men are being refused the right to live out their callings to minister to God’s people as priests.  God’s people are desperately in need of their gifts.  Not only do we need priests, but we need more of the good, healthy, balanced, priests who will live out the life they are called to in joy.  What many readers here don’t seem to understand is the point you made about the man who is truly called to priesthood but is not called to celibacy.  But I do understand.  And I understand too, that by nature of our sacrament of matrimony the ordination of such men is the living out of a vocation for both the husband and the wife who, already united in marriage, are also united in ordination.
Thank you, for your ministry, your sacrifice, and your love.

I think the story of Fr.Cutie is very sad.Had he been born ugly he might not have the problem facing him. However, I think what he did publicly on the beach with this woman was immoral, wrong and scandalizing to those who either witnessed it or heard the graphic details. Priests have far more responsibilities than the average Catholic. When I was a young mother, I never made a decision without weighing the effects it would have on my children. Fr. Cutie should consider the effects of his decision. The decisions we make in this earthly life will clearly effect where we spend eternity. Eternity is forever. I’ll pray for Father as I pray for all the priests….......mrs. loretta Schult

Loretta Schult, if you want to pray, pray not for the priests but for the thousands and thousands of men and some women who were molested as a child by pedophile priests and of which these men and women have had a traumatic life dealing with these abuses which were covered up by the Catholic Church in protecting these degenerate priests.  The priests and Fr. Cutie need no prayers.  They can tend to themselves.  That’s not the same for the victims of sexual abuse in the Catholic Church.

Larry Herreo is correct.  The big issue that catholics should be talking about is the WORLDWIDE sexual abuse scandals that are rocking the catholic church.  Thousands of so called good priests who for many years maybe centuries buggered our children by the tens of thousands and all was covered up by lieing and deceitful bishops and Cardinals to protect the mighty church.  Even corrupt corporations such as Enron had whistleblowers but the defening silence by the entire catholic clergy has been disgusting.  The only reason this issue is now being addressed by the vatican is because they got caught!

  Father Cutie is easy an easy mark to pick on for his mistakes.  He also stated that over 100,000 catholic priests that came before him have left the catholic church for a woman or in many cases a man.

  The roman catholic church is in peril.  Sex abuse scandals, money laundering scandals in the vatican, 2 investigations by the vatican on our catholic nuns in america.  Huge issues that need to be known by catholics and voiced by catholics.  So far silence, but many catholics are quick to jump all over the individual Father Cutie for his mistake.  Typical catholic way.  Sad.

Larry Herreo is not correct….

The number of good priests far far far far outweighs the non-good priests.
And the truth is (and this is from a respected US writer)
there is far more sex abuse within family circles in the US.. only that it is never reported.

This in no way dimishes evil, any kind of evil, however your rhetoric I feel comes from some kind of hate against the Church—-

The Church will continue, sir, whether you like it or not.. She has survived in a 2,000 time period—and The Lord has paid for her..
so you are wrong the Church is not in peril..
what is in peril are evil doers who used the Church…
and also those who used The Church to make money.

God sees all—and one that day .. we will all stand before Him.

So please be cautious with your words - there are millions of good Catholics out there doing awesome work.

Posted by Elisa on Wednesday, Dec 29, 2010 9:28 AM (EST):A bishop should be “making the rounds” with diocesian priests—they’re his responsibilty.
A lot of things could have been different. Unfortunately not so.
If even Fr. Cutie decided to leave the church, he could done it quietly and the Episcopal Church there could have received him quietly as well.

WHY WASN’T ALL THIS KEPT QUIETLY?  TWO REASONS.  THE PAPARAZI BLEW THIS INTO THE WORLD AND THE ARCHDIOCESE OF MIAMI WHOSE GOLDEN MONEY MAKING CHILD, FR. CUTIE, WAS NOW IN THE SPOTLIGHT, HAD TO CIRCLE ITS WAGONS AND DO REMEDIAL MEASURES TO COVER HIS ACTS AND SEPERATE THEMSELVES FROM THE CHURCH.  HAD THE ARCHDIOCESE KEPT IT LOW PROFILE, FR. CUTIE WOULD HAVE GONE HIS WAY TO THE EPISCOPAL SIDE AND THE SCANDAL WOULD NOT HAVE BEEN BLOWN OUT OF PROPORTION. ARCHBISHOP FAVALORA DID A PRESS CONFERENCE WITH ALL THE LOCAL MEDIA AND HE BLASTED FR. CUTIE AND MADE IT INTO AN EVEN GREATER SPECTACLE TAKING THIS PERSONAL.  EVERYONE HAD THEIR PART IN MAKING THIS INTO THE CIRCUS IT BECAME.

Posted by mary on Tuesday, Jan 11, 2011 12:07 PM (EST):Larry Herreo is not correct….

there is far more sex abuse within family circles in the US.. only that it is never reported.

This in no way dimishes evil, any kind of evil, however your rhetoric I feel comes from some kind of hate against the Church—-

The Church will continue, sir, whether you like it or not..

MARY, BECAUSE THERE IS SEXUAL ABUSE ELSEWHERE DOES NOT REMOVE FROM THE REALITY THAT SEXUAL ABUSE BY PRIESTS IN THE CATHOLIC CHURCH HAS EXISTED AS FAR BACK AS PRIOR TO THE MEDIEVAL AGES.  THE COVERUP BY THE CATHOLIC CHURCH OF THIS PRACTICE IS HISTORICAL.  EVENTHOUGH SEXUAL ABUSE BY CATHOLIC PRIESTS HAS NOW COME TO LIGHT, IT IS IN THE SAME POLICY OF COVERUP BY THE CATHOLIC CHURCH THAT HAS EXISTED ALL ALONG.  NO ONE IS PERFECT INCLUDING THE CATHOLIC CHURCH.  ADMISSION OF GUILT AND WRONGDOING IS ALWAYS WELCOMED AND ACKNOWLEDGED AS WELL AS A MEANS TO TAKE MEASURES TO TRY TO STOP THIS FROM HAPPENING AGAIN AND TO STATE AND SHOW MEASURES BY THE CATHOLIC CHURCH TO PUNISH AND DEAL WITH THE DEVIANTS.  IT IS WHEN THE CATHOLIC CHURCH EVEN TODAY CONTINUES TO COVER UP AND REFUSE TO ASSIST IN THE PROSECUTION OF THESE PERVERTS THAT BRINGS OUT THE CORRUPTION IN THE CHURCH.  YES, THE CATHOLIC CHURCH WILL CONTINUE JUST AS IT WILL CONTINUE TO HAVE PERVERTS GOING AFTER CHILDREN ONLY THAT THE CATHOLIC CHURCH HAS BEEN, IS AND WILL CONTINUE TO BE THE SAFE HAVEN THAT THESE MEN WILL HAVE.

THAT I HAVE A HATE AGAINST THE CATHOLIC CHURCH.  YOU’RE DAMM RIGHT I HAVE A HATE AGAINST THE CATHOLIC CHURCH. IF YOU’D BEEN SEXUALLY ABUSED BY A PRIEST WHO YOU TRUSTED AND BELIEVED IN WHEN YOU WERE 7 YEARS OF AGE AND THAT INCIDENT TURNED THE REST OF YOUR LIFE UPSIDE DOWN IN MANY WAYS AND YOU CAME TO UNDERSTAND THAT ALL WAS PART OF A COVERUP BY THE CATHOLIC CHURCH, YOU’RE RIGHT.  I HAVE A HATE AGAINS THE CATHOLICH CHURCH. 

AND I HAVE MORE OF A HATRED TODAY BECAUSE EVEN TODAY AFTER THE LID HAS BEEN OPENED AND THE EXPOSURE AND EVIDENCE IS SHOWN THE CATHOLIC CHURCH CONTINUES TO NOT ONLY DENY BUT TO DO ALL POSSIBLE TO PROTECT AND COVER UP THE ACTIONS OF THE SEXUAL ABUSIVE PRIESTS.

Posted by John on Friday, Jan 7, 2011 6:15 PM (EST):Pam - one hundred years??  The church has been under attack since our Lord was crucified!!
  Indeed the Church has been under attack since the crucifixion of Christ, for that matter mankind has been under attack from the devil since he was kicked out of Heaven.

AND THE CATHOLIC CHURCH HAS BEEN DOING A WONDERFUL JOB PROMOTING ITSELF BY COVERING UP FOR THE SEXUAL ABUSE OF ITS PRIESTS.  OF COURSE THE CATHOLIC CHURCH IS GOING TO BE UNDER ATTACK MORE THAN ANY OTHER CHURCH WOULD BE.  STOP THROWNING THE “OH, PITY IS ME!” CARD AND UNDERSTAND THAT THE ISSUE IS THE SEXUAL ABUSE OF PRIESTS AND HOW THE CATHOLIC CHURCH HAS AND CONTINUES TO COVER UP THESE SEXUAL ABUSIVE INDIVIDUALS.  MAYBE IF JUST TODAY IT OPENED UP AND COOPERATED WITH THE INVESTIGATIONS A WHOLE NEW PERSPECTIVE OF THE CHURCH WOULD EMERGE.

Larry

I am so so sorry re what happened to you ...
I had the same situation with one of my brothers
I know what you are going through and I will pray to Jesus
who heals all of us, that you are healed—He is the great healer…
and he loves, you, me, my brother all of us.—

I am not trying to hide anyone you must believe that.. having lived through,with my beloved brother, a similar tragedy.
AFter suffering and much prayer however Larry I can sincerely tell you
my brother is recovering—I know it is God’s work and the love of many also good clerics..
there are evil priests and sisters - of course there are - there are priests who are in the Church ‘pretending to be priests’ and they are the biggest liars..- there are priests and sisters who ‘work against the Church’ - but on the outside pretend to be ‘of the Church’.. there are priest who live as homosexuals with other priests/ live off the money of the catholic parish/ get a pension/ a home/a car .. and dare.. I say dare .. because they will receive double punishment.. dare ‘to lift the Body of my Beloved Jesus’..
they should be thrown out—agreed and yes jailed—
they are the biggest of liars…

But Larry—God will deal with these men and women on the day of judgement as with all of us—  but The Church, as Christ instituted it ..
is pure ..— many inside are not—but this is true of the Anglican Church (in Canada we had many sex abuse cases against minors)..
we had many government homes ...where native Indian children where terribly abused - I know these native indians and the hell they then lived..—but ‘saving grace’ many met Christ.. through a’good and holy priest/sister/missionary/lay man or woman.. ‘and came to God through The Church—these men/women - are now being healed by God ...

Do I hate the priest who abused my brother—I did at the beginning…
but I had to give that hate to the Lord as I did not want hate to invade my soul and destroy our life..-  The Lord will deal with this man…
Thankfully we can go on with our lives.. that man will have to face what he did…

Be assured of my prayers for you Larry every day.. that Jesus will heal you…—and He will—so you can go on and build the life He wants .. for however long you have on this earth..

Mary

Right now 8 catholic dioceses and arch dioceses in america have filed for bankruptcy (in the past 6 years) all because of the abuse scandals that have occured in almost all 195 dioceses in the USA, and in every country around the world including many in my country of Canada.

  An organization such as the catholic church that teaches they are the advocates, and arbitors of justice and morality and the pathway to the kingdom of god, have failed all of their followers by lies and deceit making complete fools out of the faithful by not calling the police whenever a priest commited a felony crime such as sexual abuse.  I am sure any priest would diall 911 immediately if I threw a stone threw a church window, but all have been silent whenever a child was hurt in the worst possible way by them. 

  We were indoctrinated into the faith by the catholic clergy teaching us its a grave sin to lie,  coverup a lie, or sexually abuse anyone and that we could never receive holy communion with these such sins on our souls, however these so called holy men haven’t got a clue themselves what it means to be holy.  Everyone of these molesting catholic clergy thousands in america alone, and many more worldwide, everyone of these bishops/cardinals who lied, and deceived everyone for years about these criminals gave themselves holy communion everytime they said mass, but made it perfectly clear that we ourselves would be committing a grave sin by receiving communion with sins on our souls.  HYPOCRACY!

Thank you charts.1 for your above comments.  Im glad to see that there is logic and common sense and the truth posted in your statement.  Not that others haven’t but yours hit the nail right on the head.  It’s easy to look away at what the priests have done (at least in the past forty years and not just historically) when it comes to sexually abusing minors as a lot of Catholic patrons and followers tend to do.  But tell that to the thousands of now adults that were sexually abused by a man whom they were taught to respect, honor and trust.  Tell that to the child that the day before has been sexually abused by the same man that today is giving out communion and representing Jesus Christ in the Catholic Church.  Where is the logic that the child is trying to comprehend when the sexually abusive priest threatens the little boy against speaking out knowing that what was done was totally wrong? 

These perverts came to be priest for who knows what reason but one thing is evident and that is that they came with gay and sexually deviant desires and found the perfect window dressing as a priest and abusing their power on the children that they were teaching to trust, honor and respect them. 

What’s even more hurtful is how the Catholic Church all the way from the Vatican to the local churches cover up and protect these perverts.  As chart.1 states, have someone throw a rock at the church and they will be all over the news raising charges and bringout out in the open that someone threw a rock at the church window.  Have a priest being acussed of molesting a minor and everyone plays ostrich and sticks their heads in the sand covering any and all records of such incidents. 

One word says it clearly:  HYPOCRACY…..in the Catholic Church.  I expect nothing less from the Catholic Church.  Talk about mayor corporate enterprises?  This is one of the most corrupt and disgusting organizations in history and in today’s world.

Dorothy,  You think that some are speaking as “idealogues” but you are wrong. God’s word are true. And there are people who are trying to live and follow it. He does give us grace. You shouldn’t be counseling priests who struggle with this issue if you don’t believe in the power of grace. It is real.  The young man who was carrying on with a woman as he studied for the priesthood was not called to the priesthood. How absurd! God is letting you know loud and clear by revealing he is LYING and NOT sincere in VOWS or PROMISES he would make. He could serve the Church SO many ways as a married man.  He could find his wife and become a deacon, he could be a Scott Hahn, he could be a youth group minister.  You are way off base and just pushing the flesh on the Church. 
Frank, I apologize if I seem condescending.  I am protective of the fullness of truth that has been gifted to us and was raised by a devout mother so have been well educated in the faith.  I am not unhappy just aware that a lot of disinformation is being spread and a lot of lobbying for a Church that is not the Church Christ founded.  How does a person start a blog? :>)
George I was referring to Pope Leo XXXIII vision.  Satan was given 100 years - the twentieth century to try to destroy the Church.  All these attacks from all different directions. It’s like when Christ said to Peter, “Satan has asked to sift you like wheat.”  And Peter denied Christ.  He repented and cried and then became the one to lead the others to healing when their faith faltered.  We have been sifted.  We need to cry for all the Larry Herreos and Fr. Cuties and our personal failures as the lay faithful and repent and turn back to God.

Larry, forgiveness of the man and the church are central to being healed.

Larry, I am sorry for what has happened to you and the hate it has caused in you.  But hate is sinful too and no one will enter Heaven as long as they are filled with hate.  Wouldn’t it be awful to spend eternity in Hell next to your abuser because you couldn’t forgive.

Hey, Pam, while you are making jest of everyone else’s information.  Had it occured to you that maybe you don’t know it ALL?  I think the Lord is Still on the Throne and He will make the decisions not the traditions of any church.  While you are speaking of the Popes, what happened to apostolic succession when the Popes paid to be Pope and were not even ordained a priest???

Frank, I’m not making fun of anyone and I am aware I don’t know it all, but I’m not answering it all either. The Lord established the Church with the traditions and it is His Holy Spirit that guides it. You sound so angry. Despite the failures of man, the Holy Spirit has been guiding the Church throughout our history and when a holy Pope like Leo XIII reveals a vision and composes the prayer to St. Michael the Archangel we need to pay attention.

Pam, no I am not angry.  I am just very sad and in some ways disgusted at how I have seen so many “cover ups” for clergy and even some laity who have comitted out right crimes and it is overlooked like it never happened.  This is not Christian.  I do believe in the prayers of the angels and the saints (not all beatified ones either) who are interceding for us daily. It was not the Lord that conjured up all the traditions and that even an honest clergyman who tell you.

Frank,  We agree on the coverups, the immorality within the Church is ruthless, but even all that corruption doesn’t take Jesus out of the Eucharist or the Confessional.  I try to focus even more on Him the more the corruption is obvious because He must HATE some of our liturgies and atoning for that before Him could be a full time job.

Hi Jimmy, great article there.

However, I must say that the phenomenon of married priests in the Eastern Catholic Churches is not an “adjustment”, “a relaxation of discipline”, or an “exception”. A reading of #16 in Presbyterium Ordinis notes that it is an equally legitimate discipline that has existed since the time of the Apostles. It is an exception only for the Latin Church, and some Eastern Churches i.e. (Malabar, Malankara, Syriac) but not for the other Eastern Churches.

“I don’t expect a change from the Curia anytime soon, I would welcome the day when our Church recognizes that celibacy is a special gift to whom some are called, but it may not be universal to all who are otherwise called to Priesthood.

Father George”

Dear Fr George,To give you an idea of how Catholic I am - my family has been Catholic for 2000 years. I belong to the Diocese of Kottayam and am the descendant of a Jewish Christian missionaries who came to India in the 4th century.

Let me tell you this - that day WILL CERTAINLY NOT arrive. I am not convinced by your argument that its because of the discipline of celibacy (or chastity) that the Shepherds are few. I believe that the One true Triune God knows how to take care of His Holy Catholic Church and I believe that if he has willed so for the last 2000 years (through centuries which were much more morally deficient than the times we live in) - there is a good reason for it.

Avaraham
Thank you so much for saying it—Absolutely the Church has made this clear time and again..—and yes for 2,000 years Holy Mother Church with its faithful prelates have kept going notwithstanding those who betrayed Her, betrayed Jesus Himself, and then brought their seeds of division into Christ’s community and His children.
Wow to the man that ...better that….....

I would suggest priest who wish to marry .. if that wish is so strong and more than their love for Christ’s calling—then leave. 
It would help all of us truly it would.. no hard feelings.. just go..

YES, MARIA JONES, IT WOULD HELP ALL OF YOU. TRULY IT WOULD. THAT WAY YOU AND THE REST OF THE IGNORANTS THAT LOOK AWAY CONTINUE TO PROTECT AND HARBOR THE HOMOSEXUAL PEDOPHILE PRIESTS THAT PREY ON SMALL CHILDREN USING THEIR SO-CALL POWER AND AUTHORITY OF A PRIEST.  AT LEAST CUTIE MOVED ON AND AWAY FROM THE HIPOCRISY OF THE CATHOLIC CHURCH THAT CRITIZED HIM FOR GOING WITH A WOMAN BUT WILL NOT DIRECTLY DEAL AND CONFRONT PUBLICLY THE COVERUPS AND ISSUES BEHIND PEDOPHILE PRIESTS. EVEN IF THE PRIEST DECIDES TO LEAVE THE PRIESTHOOD AND GO IN A HOMOSEXUAL RELATION WITH ANOTHER MAN, I CAN RESPECT THAT.  ITS BETWEEN TWO CONSENTING ADULTS.  BUT WHEN A PRIEST SEXUALLY ABUSES A BOY BEHIND THE FALSE POWER OF A PRIEST THAT HE PROJECTS TO A YOUNG BOY, THAT IS HORRIBLE BUT MORE SO WHEN THE CATHOLIC CHURCH ITSELF COVERS UP WHAT WAS DONE AND EVEN WORSE WHEN PEOPLE LIKE YOU BRUSH ASIDE THE ISSUE WITH COMMENTS LIKE THE ONE YOU JUST MADE.

Touched a nerve, Larry?  It seemed Maria was saying if you are not going to be faithful to the vows and the tradition of the Church that you are serving as a priest you would be doing everyone a favor to leave.  Creating dissension by remaking the faith to suit ones temptations is never a good idea.  Seems she would want pedophiles out of the priesthood as well. And having married men won’t keep pedophiles away from the priesthood if pedophiles see a chance for power, access and credibility in the role. Having married priests just adds different problems and potential scandals not fewer problems.

There you go again, Pam, putting words in people’s mouths.
Remember it was Christ that started the Church and no where in scripture is it called the Roman Catholic Church.
I agree with Mr. Herrero, too many evil things are done by people wearing collars who are not even Christian let alone holy.  Reality isn’t always pretty.  But, it is so important that everyone especially at this late date comes to the Savior as their Lord and follow His Word.  For it is Every word of God that we live by, not all of the traditions of man.  Jesus is alive and He is real and He loves every one of us and He forgives everyone of us.  Isn’t that the most wonderful thing.  Forget about all of the petty differences and focus on Christ.

Peace of Christ, Frank. How are you looking at this? What words did I put in anyone’s mouth.  Larry was writing in all caps.  A form of emphasis,no?  He was chastising Maria for something she didn’t say.  You are right that Jesus forgives us IF we ask and we repent. The Church Christ founded was built starting with the rock of Peter.  The Roman Catholic Church is that Church.  The Church has been under attack for one hundred years according to the vision of Pope Leo XIII.  Some terrible things have happened.  God permitted the Church to be attacked.  We all need to work to be more faithful.  It doesn’t mean you desert the Church because some priests are terrible sinners.  It means you work to become holier. And you pray for the Church.  And you value the sacraments and stay close to them.

Pam, you obviously do not have an open mind.  Too bad, you didn’t work in a parish church for four years and see what it is really all about.  As long as you just look at the facade it is all peachy.  As I said, the most important thing is a relationship with Jesus Christ.  If you don’t have that you can go through all of the Rituals until kingdom come and you WILL NOT BE ENTERING THE KINGDOM OF HEAVEN>  God bless and enlighten you.

Frank, We don’t disagree that our relationship with Jesus Christ is paramount.  It is the greatest commandment to love God with our whole heart, our whole soul our whole mind and strength. And my mind is open to the truth.  God bless.

Pam, you mean what you perceive as the truth.
Your remarks have convinced me to leave the church. Thanks

Frank, it is a pity that you choose to leave the Church because of the words one or even many people. Or even the actions of some. It saddens me whenever someone says they are going to “leave the Church” because it means they really don’t know what the Church is. If one believes it to be the Mystical Body of Christ how do you turn and walk away? Would you stop believing in mathematics because your teacher was a pervert or because some of your classmates were rude or jerks. Throughout history people have left the Church on the excuse of some scandal or behavior when really they had already made their decision. The Holy Spirit is leading the Church, the Mystical Body of Christ, and Jesus told us that at the end He would separate the wheat from the chaff, not before, and in the meantime we will have to live together. One final thought, if you believe the Catholic Church to be the true Church and you leave, you won’t go to Heaven. That is one teaching that is very clear and it would be supreme irony, or tragedy, to spend eternity with those whose company you found reviling to begin with.

John, that is what you have been taught.  I have been certified to teach RCIA and have been a Secular Carmelite for over 20 years.  I know the teachings of the Church, but I also know the Scriptures.  Read Revelation.  There is a Church mentioned and people are emplored to leave “her” as she is the !@#$% of Babylon and those following her false “traditions” will NOT go to Heaven.  I am defintely now worried about my salvation.  Maybe some the ones that are caught up in the superstitions should be concerned.  You do know (and even priests have agreed on this) when we get to Heaven St. Peter won’t ask which denomination we are.  He will however ask how we lived our lives and if we portrayed the love of Christ.  Do remember dear Pope John Paul II.  He was the perfect example of openess to Ecumenism and he did not condemn priests who wanted to marry, either.  He made it clear that some in the church about 1200 years ago decided all the priests in Rome should not be allowed to marry.  We truely lost a great and wonderful man of God when Pope John Paul II died.  God rest his soul. Remember, he that is without sin - throw the first stone!!!

Frank, I’m not buying it.  Trying to silence someone who speaks the true faith (me)by playing the wounded soul(you)?  If you have been hurt by the Church you have reason to be angry.  There is righteous anger. But if you have done everything you could to resolve the issue and it is still there then I would suggest remembering what David said when he was running away from his son who wanted to kill him to take over the throne.  A bum saw David fleeing and started cursing him - King David!  And David’s troops wanted to let the man have it.  David said to leave him alone because if it was God’s will and God permitted it, he (David) was in no position to question God’s wisdom.  That helped me alot reading that.  God LOVED David because of the purity of his love of God.  So those who have hurt me in the Church, I can at least live with now because David is right. God has allowed it and He has a plan and I need to bear my cross. Jesus let everyone walk away. Don’t make that mistake.  I just read the second letter of Peter today at a holy hour.  I was struck that Peter writes, “When angels sinned, God did not spare them: he sent them down to the underworld and consigned them to the dark abyss to be held there until the Judgement. He did not spare the world in ancient times:  save only Noah, the preacher of uprightness…He condemned the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah…All this shows that the Lord is well able to rescue the good from their trials and hold the wicked for their punishment…especially those who follow the desires of their corrupt human nature and have no respect for the Lord’s authority.”  Twenty years as a secular carmelite and you won’t carry the cross?  You have had twenty years to prepare you TO carry this cross. Hearing someone speak the truth in love is enough to make you leave the Church? If everyone doesn’t agree with you you’re out the door?  If you don’t get your way you’re out the door?  That’s not faith. You are in the middle of a spiritual battle! John is right.  You are not being asked to say the actions of particular clergy are all right.  You are not being asked to like your clergy or the direction the Church is headed.  You are asked to love Jesus truly present in the Eucharist and through Him living in you to love those around you by being faithful to His word and dying to yourself for love of Him and neighbor.  The ability to do it all comes from Him, not us so we NEED the Eucharist and the sacraments.  Where did you hear St. Peter is going to be asking you questions?  According to the Bible,we will face the Father with Jesus standing beside us as our advocate if we acknowledged Him as our savior on earth. Change parishes if you need to but don’t leave the fullness of truth.

Pam, you better be careful with your remarks (you speak the truth and I am the backslider).  Your comments alone, are enough to turn anyone away from Catholicism.  Scripture tells us that only One walked on water.  You are sounding entirely too self righteous. That is one thing I truly love about the Carmelites, none of them try to act as if they know it all.  Humility is a priceless gift from our Lord.  Try some lectio divina. It helps get our perspectives on the right track.  We are placed here as servants of the Lord, not masters of someone else’s soul.  May the Lord give you peace.

Frank, Peace of Christ. I didn’t say anything about walking on water. I said I stated Church teaching, not my own ideas and I never called anyone a backslider. Don’t put words in my mouth. It seems you aren’t interested in truth, but silencing opposition to your position.  Read these blogs. Lots of different positions are posted and countered.  Sounds like you’re talking tough to shut down opposition to your view. May God give you peace.

Pam, I am signing off as I have some Bible studies and prayer groups that are much more uplifting than being shot down by a “fellow believer”.  You sure don’t like it when people disagree with you.  I don’t care personally.  I have many wonderful brothers and sisters who love the Lord and all the church has to offer. Yes, there are differing opinions, but I have never had anyone quite as curt and cutting as you.  Please do learn to be gentle and loving.  Goodbye and God bless.

WOw, Pam I have been following your attacks on Frank.  Are you sure you are a practicing Catholic?  How could you be so unkind.  We do all have different opinions even within the Church.  Jesus, Mary and Joseph pray for you.

Thank you Frank and Jeanie. Sorry your perspective is so negative. God is good. God bless.

Pam, I assume you mean well, but why do you have to use negative if someone questions you?

Pam, I was just getting ready to shut off the computer and read Jeannie’s remark. I think she hit the nail on the head.  I don’t think you want to discuss, I think you want someone to fight with. That is sad.

Jeanie and Frank, No responses were “attacks” on anyone.  The name calling is from your end. I am quoting you St. Peter and you are feeling attacked.  Whose perspective is off?  If you are reading what I say as combative that says more about you than it does me. You are attempting to spin a discussion rather than address concrete statements.  The ones having trouble discussing are you two.  There is a saying that if you aren’t sure what someone is saying to take it in the best light.  If you read my statements as they are intended they may challenge Frank to honor his 20 years as a secular carmelite and they may challenge his beliefs with quotes from Saints and the Bible, but that’s it.  Sorry but you are just trying to silence the true teaching of the Church it seems.  I’m not fighting. I’m rebutting falicy.

Pam, I will pray for you during my meditations.  It has been interesting to have a little fun with a fellow believer and get so much anger.  There is nothing you have said that could ever change my love for my Lord Jesus and I know that JMJ intercede for me and my loved ones daily.  God bless you.  Sorry you decided we are all going to Hell except you.

Frank, Do you see how weird your perspective is?  There’s no anger.  And no Christian would consider that “having fun”.  No where has there been any judgment as to where anyone ends up by me. Did St. Peter make you feel that? Then listen to him.  I will leave the judgement to God. Spin and more spin.  God bless.

Pam, Dear Lord, surely you are saying that I am weird.  I didn’t mean “fun”.  I just meant that Real Christians can have a friendly discussion without condemning and telling the other how to think.  In reality, we probably have the same scriptural views.  I just don’t believe that anyone should condemn anyone like they seem to have done Fr. Cutie.  Yes, he made some mistakes, but all of us do according to Scripture.  “We all fall short of the glory of God.”  It especially bothered me because of some very awful things that I saw done in the name of the church in my years working in a parish.  It was very disappointing and I have had to pray for each and every one of the people that I know got by with some pretty awful things - for instance, a priest that made me give him the poor fund so that he could buy snacks!! Does that make sense to you.  God bless you for caring enough to respond.

Judge not and you shall not be judged. God sees all, and God knows all. God has the ultimate final word. We live life as we are called to, and we work our own salvation with fear and trembling. We live for others, but we don’t work their salvation for them. Remember that the Holy Father said recently that in defending the truth, we don’t have to offend or challenge people.

Frank:  No, I did not say you were weird.  In response to you extrapolating all kinds of incorrect conclusions such as anger on my part, I said your PERSPECTIVE is weird, odd, not correct, not positive, fill in the blank. As to the “having fun”, those are your words. Not mine.  Discussions where no one is open to anything are pointless. Discussions are supposed to lead to something.  Condemning someone for “Telling people how to think” appears to be a negative way of saying, “Don’t teach or evangelize the truth.”  We disagree because that is exactly what Jesus asks of us. “Teach them everything I have taught you.”  If I read remarks inconsistant with that truth I am BOUND to point them out.  Factually, for the good of the truth and the Church, Fr. Cuties ACTIONS have to be condemned. What he actually did was wrong. His thinking was inconsistent and opposed to correct theology. These are facts not judgements.  He was sworn to celibacy and he broke the promise. He was in a position of trust with this woman and abused it by becoming sexually involved. His reasoning is rationalization not Christianity because instead of labelling temptation as temptation, he tries to justify it by calling it a gift from God. So that has to be addressed and the truth has to be upheld because it is GOD’s Word we are upholding.  He, personally, is another story.  What factors in his life are known to him and God make the judgment on his soul a matter only for him and God.  You are not alone in having seen the seemy side of some priests of the Church.  But they are NOT the Church. They are the weeds in the wheat. The coverup of misconduct on the backs of the victims is repulsive and wicked. The lengths to which they will go to continue covering up instead of reforming is criminal.  I understand why someone could want to walk away. Thinking from human emotional terms it seems very appealing because we might think we are walking away from the evil we see but spiritually we need to realize this is a trick. We would really be walking a way from Jesus Christ truly present in the Eucharist. Our faith tells us that Jesus is greater than all of this and that He is truly present in the sacraments and that we are warned of the crosses we must bear in this world and GRACE above all should make us able to not only remain in the Church, but work to make sure these weeds are choked out by the wheat.
Collin we agree up until the last line.  Living as a true Christian is very offensive for example to the homosexual agenda because our faith calls their union a sin. It is very offensive to planned parenthood because our faith calls their actions sin and murder. It’s not because we act offensively or are confrontational but because our lives alone witness to the lies they try to pass off as truth.  I don’t know your source for the statement by Pope Benedict, but I would wager that it was in reference to speaking with love as opposed to confrontationally.  He has always insisted we must not deny the truth to get along.

Yes, Pam, You are so right!  I won’t say the diocese where I worked, but there are priests that have grown children and ones that they caught in gay bars and ones that extorted money from the church.  It is all so overwhelming.  You could say that I was happier before I saw some of the awful things done in the name of the church.  You are right - they are even Christian.  We are called to pray and persevere until our dear Lord comes again.  Have a great Sunday.

I would not buy his book. The truth is very clear. One need not read his book. Cutie wanted the best of both worlds but he couldn’t. He had no choice but to leave the Catholic priesthood. He needs a job to feed his family. Luckily he found another “job”. What kind of example is he showing to the world? That it’s right having premarital sex on the beach whilst the paparazzis are taking photos? Perhaps if he were still a teenager then he could justify himself. But what about a priest who has taken the vows of chastity? What is he preaching about? I don’t want to listen to him. Better stay at home and preach to myself. More at http://passionofchrist-lechemindecroix.blogspot.com/2011/02/should-catholic-priests-be-allowed-to.html

What does the Bible say about premarital sex? Is it alright for a priest who has taken the vows of chastity to do it?

Pam, I never waste my time on blogs because I’m so busy, but I’m amazed by your strong faith in Christ after reading your postings and enduring so many brutal attacks.  You speak truth. I clearly see the Holy Spirit guiding you. God bless you! You have stregnthened my faith!

Tree, I agree with you.  Pam was attacked or disagreed with by several writers.  In my case I wasn’t looking for debate, I was sharing some of dredful things that happened in the church where I worked.  Unfortunately, Pam has curt remarks to had back to people as she did for me not wanting to carry my cross.  That is a strong accusation if you don’t know what a person is going through - Personally, I have gone through some very painful health problems that required surgery and it has been difficult.  This followed the death of a parent and a very difficult situation with a child and not being able to work and now on social security trying to keep my home going.  My point is we should never make such judgmental remarks about any brother or sister until we know their circumstances.

Frank, I carefully read Pam’s postings and did not find that she made any personal judgements against anyone.  She simply stated the truth in a humble, charitable manner. Sometimes the truth hurts and that is why it was charitable.

HI Tree, is your other name pam?  Or are you another judgmental traditionalist.  God help people who are always angry and condemning.  Until you walk in someone elses’ shoes you really can’t speak for them, can you?? I thought Catholics were supposed to be loving and accepting and reach people with the love of Christ not by stepping on them and forcefully trying to make them accept the papist teachings of degeneration.  You better read Revelation and take a look at your own beliefs.
I never saw such hatred of other religions until I became Catholic and I just don’t think I really feel that the Lord wants me to be hurt by other “self professing Gods”.
Like St. Teresa said, “If this is the way you treat your friends, no wonder you have few.”

My My What are some of you thinking?  Poor Frank, he has obviously had some painful experiences in the church.  Should we not be reaching out in love and not attacking this man.  As Our Lady has been imploring us, let us Pray Pray Pray.  Love your neighbors as yourselves.

Sr. Mary J., I have tried to reach out in love.  Thank you Tree for noticing.  Peace of Christ to Frank.  The truth is loving. Some times on these blogs people react strongly to the truth because they are fighting it. That is not only harmful to them, but to the whole Church. It doesn’t mean that what was said was said harshly. If there is a concrete example of doing things differently, Sr. Mary J.please give it. God bless.

Thank you, Sister Mary J for your kindness.  Oh yes, Pam.  There have been many things done in the name of the church that are sinful.  However, who among us has never sinned?  According to scripture - no sin is greater than another, so doesn’t that put us all in the learning “not teaching” mode? And I am not unteachable, even though I am a trained RCIA Catechist I feel that I will always be learning until the Lord takes me home.  I think everyone should be familiar with the book of James, especially the 5th Chapter.  We need to be encouraging one another and praying for one another so that we will be ready when our Lord comes again.  I know I want to hear Him say, Well done, good and faithful servant.  God bless.  Have a blessed week.

Pam, I let Sr, Mary J. use my computer but she forgot to change the name.
I will not be sending any more messages, but the dear sisters have warmed my heart and given me encouragement to keep on.
God bless you, Pam, and all that you endeavor.

Frank?Sr.Mary J.  We are always learning and teaching and there is no reason to apologize for either. Lack of humility or envy may make it hard to hear something someone else says that challenges us. Doesn’t necessarily mean they shouldn’t have said it.

Jesus teaching on ( Sin) Adultery ,Fornication, Lasciviousness: Mark 7:21-22 ” For from within, out of the heart of men , proceed .........adulteries,fornications….......lasciviousness”
Cross reference with Exodus 20:14” Thou shalt not commit adultery
The catechism of the catholic church ( 6 commandment) precepts # 2331-2391)