When I read last Thursday's daily meditation in Magnificat magazine, it was one of those moments of being thunderstruck by a truth that is simple, should be obvious, and yet is utterly foreign to the modern mind. Doctor of the Church St. Peter Chrysologus reflects on Mark 6:7 and says:
"And he began to send them forth two by two." He sent them two by two so that no one of them, being abandoned and alone, might fall into a denial, like Peter, or flee, like John. Human frailty quickly falls if it proudly relies on itself, despises companions, and is unwilling to have a colleague. As Scripture says: "Woe to him that is alone, for when he falls, he has none to lift him up" [Eccles. 4:10]. The same Scripture testifies how much one is strengthened by another's aid when it states: "A brother that is helped by his brother is like a strong city" [Prov. 18:19].
It's interesting to note that in the Church's vision for every state of life, you're never a lone wolf; every individual has a person or group of people to whom he is intimately connected, at least one person who's opinion he's obliged to listen to, who is similarity obliged to give him honest feedback when he's veering off course. Priests and religious are connected to one another, to their orders or parishes, and to their superiors. Married men and women have their spouses and children to act as their traveling companions on the road to Heaven. Single people have their parents, siblings, extended family, and parish communities to draw them into intimate connections with others (also, in many traditional Catholic cultures, adult children lived with family as long as they were single). Hermits would seem to be the exception, though it's interesting to note that they don't interact with people at all: They might not have spouses or regular meetings with fellow hermits, but they also don't face the myriad temptations to sin that come with daily interaction with other human beings.
This sounds obvious when you hear it, but these ideas are quite counterintuitive in our culture of American individualism. Many people have never even thought to question the idea that it's best to be as free from the "burdens" of other people as possible, that a no-strings-attached life is the good life -- in fact, plenty of modern weddings even incorporate this idea into the core of their vows. Yet, as St. Peter Chrysologus would predict, the fruits of the life of an extreme individualist are rarely good; Jesus sent his disciples out in pairs because he knew that the devil loves a lone wolf.



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Yes, we see this over and over as we learn the Gospel. Our most fundamental prayer is “Our Father”. Not “my Father”.
And G. K. Chesterton has something very interesting to say about hermits which I hope a better scholar than I can find for us.
However. The apostles, excepting John, all deserted Christ in His arrest prior to the descent of the Holy Spirit. They were weaker before Pentecost. After that descent of the Holy Spirit at Pentecost, they became capable of martyrdom and they need not be sent in two’s as strictly after Pentecost because the lone Christian is not alone anymore presuming he is committed to the Church with Peter at its head….biggie presumption. Your children will become capable of parting with a whole group who intends sin and they will do it alone now that they have been confirmed in the sacrament of Confirmation. I did it at 13 years old against the only friends I had and no Catholic was with me and all the sinning friends were Catholic. I said no to going to the house of an “easy” girl.
Elijah was totally alone when he told God, ” I alone am left”. But God Himself fed Elijah meat brought by ravens so his lone falling was nullified. Temper Eccles. 4:10 with that. Job was alone when his wife told him to curse God and die (Job 2:9) and Tobias was alone when his wife tired of his virtue.
I often wonder if Elijah one day asked the raven…” Could I bother you to bring filet mignon tomorrow?...just kidding…just kidding.”
We actually have too much herd thinking in the Church now when two Popes can campaign against the death penalty and most clergy follow despite Romans 13:4 and despite the death penalty having been in Vatican City law until 1969. I know…life sentences make it unneccesary now. Unforetunately life sentences existed since the Roman Empire ( damnata
ad mettala…damned to the metals ( mines))....so the modern penology/ life sentences is at bottom a rationalization to put makeup on a discontinuity. But in other words we have no Pauls now…Paul who all alone by his lonesome rebuked the first Pope in Galatians and no one helped him and God wanted that moment in Scripture…a lone Catholic rebuking the Pope who grew by the rebuke of a lesser in rank..
BB, I can’t decide if you’re a troll or just plain off your rocker. In regard to to Peter being rebuked by Paul, whom you seem to believe was a lone wold, I recommend you reread Jennifer’s article, particularly this quote from sacred scripture: “A brother that is helped by his brother is like a strong city” [Prov. 18:19].
Second of all, herd mentality is good so long as it keeps members in a healthy herd. After all, we are a community of believers, who live out our witness through the prayers and activities of the visible Church.
Joseph,
Do research on Pope Leo X’s “Exsurge Domine” appropo article 33 condemned. Pope Leo X bound all Catholics to condemn Luther’s opposition to burning heretics under excommunication latae sententiae if they did not. It was our worst moment of herd thinking because we burned people who we now trust with doing a heart transplant on us….or changing our brakes. It’s online…“Exsurge Domine”, 1520. It did not qualify under infallibility because you’ll notice Pope Leo does not reference the whole episcopate as his witnesses but only Cardinals and scholars…but the excommunication held in an error that the Church now rejects after the non coercion clauses of Vatican II.
Usually it takes 4 or 5 posts before some one is called a troll. Joseph, do some research—it’s quite possible bb may have his/her facts correct.
This is an interesting point and one which I think is at the heart of how Fr Corapi went off the rails. To my understanding for most of his itinerant preacher time, he lived by himself. He did not live in a community but led more of a hermit like existence. As you said, this is very dangerous as the Devil loves a lone wolf. I wonder if this ultimately came back to doom him.
“he knew that the devil loves a lone wolf.”
How fatuous. There is no such thing as the “devil”.
Who does the Catholic hierarchy listen to? The Pope?
Who does the Pope listen to?
No one.
He/they must maintain the status quo of the past centuries without fail.
“It did not qualify under infallibility because ...”
Hilarious.
“who live out our witness through the prayers and activities of the visible Church.”
Thus wasting only a very small part of your lives.
Joseph,
Now that’s a troll. He obviously is anti Catholic but he is here why? Because he can’t cause a sensation with his fellow anti-Catholics at their site. He obviously threw spit balls in third grade at girls to get their attention. It worked in a way so here he is. But it didn’t work in a deep sense as it won’t here.
That’s in reference to Earl.
I thought many Catholic saints were hermits—facing devils alone in the desert. Certainly their are Catholics who spent all their time isolated in prayer.
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JF is making another point about why it’s better to be Catholic. I’ll bet she was lonely during her “atheist days.” Now she is happy with a family. So she’s aiming her gun at “lone wolves.”
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God forbid that anyone who isn’t Catholic should be happy.
A short article for a hard topic.
The bible talks a lot about being together. Going by twos, counseling by threes, God being there when several Christians gather. All true.
Then again, separation is equally important. Christ himself on down, God takes us all into the desert alone, one on one. The long dark night of the soul.
As far as lone wolves go, I can’t help but think of Elijah and Moses. Elijah fleeing for his life after participating in the death of a bunch of priests of Baal, he though he was the last and the system would kill him. Moses, crazy old guy building a boat. Paul too as bb mentioned. Thanks bb BTW, I’m repeating some of what you said.
Anyhow, short article, hard to agree with the conclusion.
Leszek, dear, Noah was the “crazy old guy building a boat.” Moses was the one who brought the Hebrews out of Egyptian servitude. You’re welcome.
Leszek,
I agree with your duality…together is important and alone is important. I failed to sufficiently praise the “together” part. Elijah though unlike some prophets was not killed but went up in a fiery chariot and will return before Christ’s Second Coming.
The thing is, we are not all every truly alone. That is the beauty of Communion. Satan’s desire? Isolation. Separation. Dis-unity.
The examples of Elijah and Job merely highlight the fact that they were alone in a physical sense. Christian brotherhood (and sisterhood) goes beyond the physical realm. Hence, one can go out in the world solo (as many of the disciples did post-Pentecost) and be physically alone, but they are not alone spiritually. We are united spiritually—we are united, grafted, into the Mystical Body of Christ.
If my children wish to part from a group that intends sin, they will not be alone. They may be alone physically, but not spiritually. They will be lifted up by a whole bevy of people praying for them (my wife and myself included), people who are alive and well, and people who have since joined our Lord in heaven. The key is understanding, them understanding, that they are not truly alone, even if they are physically alone. It’s like telling your son, who is afraid to go to bed at night, that he’s not truly alone. God, Jesus, Mary are with him, so he has nothing to fear.
yes- there were some saintly hermits- but that is perhaps the rarest of vocations- I think of priests being alone in many parishes- this is not a good situation and can lead to spiritual barrenness. The vast majority of people are made to live in community
Priests in parishes are hardly alone.
What happens when you are thrown out from a Christian community, like a leper? What happens when you have OCD and for 15 years the very thing you obsess about is mortal sin, to the point you feel you cannot receive the sacraments? What if you try to please God, and the doors just remain shut. Perhaps there are times when God throws you out, to have you wander in the desert like Elijah.
NO JESUS- NEVER HAPPENED
It is not good for man to be alone. God has so richly provided for us in this life that those who are alone, lonely, and wandering can access heaven! Or as close to it this side of the gates. We can pray and abide with the Lord, His angels, and His saints. Jesus, thank you.
Being alone or isolated can mean not being accountable to authority.Community provides that.
If the community is toxic, as in Noah’s time,then it’s a different situation.
Kathleen—are you suggesting “lone wolves” are dangerous? Might I remind you about the danger of ignorant people in large groups?
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Your comment can be interpreted a number of ways. Jennifer regards our culture as a “culture of death.” I’m sure Scott Roeder had the same idea when he shot Dr. Tiller.
I believe Jennifer`s observations are an over simplification and based on cherry picked comments plucked from various writers. I might ask about some saints who were most certainly alone and survived with the help of God and the Holy Spirit a ‘myriad of temptations’ that were administered by a very cunning and creative evil and are more numerous than there is room to list here. St. Meinrad,comes to mind, whom the Swiss congregation of Benedictine monks was founded on in the ninth century, not to mention in the early days of Christianity about the second century, many saints left communities and social structures to seek God living alone in the desert such as St. Anthony of the desert and the desert fathers including
St. Paul whom some consider the first hermit and on whom the Pauline Order was founded on. St Benedict himself describes in his Holy Rule the erimetical life of the hermit to be the highest calling since the singular battle of the soul against evil has the closest relationship and dependance on Christ and it is a battle that goes on till death as demonstrated by St. Romuald. St Peter Damien of Fonte Avellana properly explains the relatioship a hermit or erimitical has with the Church in his address titled ‘Dominus Vobiscum’ when asked by a monk hermit if it is allowed to pray alone “The Lord Be With You’ since he is not with anyone. Saint Peter Damien declares, of course it is, as a member of the body of Christ, the Church, all prayer rises with the Church and other members of the body of Christ since we are all spiritualy connected. For those that are alone and shut out of the world, there is a peace and taste of Heaven and it is united to the whole Christian flock since the Kingdom is not of this world and yet, in the mystery of Christ, in each one of us. Anyway, my thoughts, Pax.
“The thing is, we are not all every [sic] truly alone.”
Or else we all are truly alone. No one can truly read my thoughts or feel my pain or joy. And I cannot read their thoughts or truly feel their pain or joy. Humans have learned to communicate of course and that allows us to perhaps understand some of the pain or joy of someone else. Communication is a tremendous evolutionary advantage. Parents teach children. Students learn from past knowledge. The “tribe” is more powerful than a single individual. But none of that has anything to do with any religion.
“That is the beauty of Communion.”
Religious nonsense.
“Satan’s desire? Isolation. Separation. Dis-unity.”
There is no “Satan” - that’s just religious nonsense to attempt to create conformity by fear.
“Christian brotherhood (and sisterhood) goes beyond the physical realm.”
Riiiiight. Into the imaginary realm? Hilarious.
“We are united spiritually—we are united, grafted, into the Mystical Body of Christ.”
Hilarious religious nonsense.
“and people who have since joined our Lord in heaven.”
What? The people in “heaven” pray for the living?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intercession_of_saints
Wow. That’s quite crazy.
“Roman Catholic Church doctrine supports intercessory prayer to saints.”
“Intercessory prayer to saintly persons who have not yet been canonized is also practiced, and evidence of miracles produced as a result of such prayer is very commonly produced during the formal process of canonization.”
Of course. Why didn’t I think of that? Kind of self-fulfilling wishful thinking. I’ll pray to someone who is not yet a saint and if/when I can convince the powers-that-be that a “miracle” occurred, then that someone is on their way as a real saint! Hilarious.
“It’s like telling your son, who is afraid to go to bed at night, that he’s not truly alone.”
Next you will tell him about Santa Claus and that “Jesus loves him”.
“Jennifer regards our culture as a “culture of death.””
And that’s just stupid.
http://freethoughtblogs.com/dispatches/2012/10/25/the-churchs-low-bar-for-miracles/
The Church’s Low Bar for Miracles
This past weekend, Pope Benedict XVI formally announced that the Catholic Church had created seven new saints, including two Americans, Kateri Tekakwitha and Marianne Cope. Tekakwitha’s new title reveals just how absurd the church’s standards are for what constitutes a miracle.
Posted by True Democrat on Thursday, Oct 25, 2012 10:57 AM (EST):Kathleen—are you suggesting “lone wolves” are dangerous? Might I remind you about the danger of ignorant people in large groups?”
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Those are called mobs.Both can be dangerous.
“I’m sure Scott Roeder had the same idea when he shot Dr. Tiller.”
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Sorry, but I can’t help remembering Ann Coulter’s take on that.
Kathleen,
I don’t know what you are referring to. I hate Ann Coulter more than anyone in this site hates atheists. Anything else I have to say about her would be censored as it is profane, scatological and blasphemous.
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Earl—If you read the front page, Creationist Jay Richards was welcomed to the Catholic faith. What more can you say?
Kathleen—missed your comment on “mobs.”
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The definition also embraces political parties. Teabaggers for example.
Earl—
You have to understand the power of religion with its archetypes (Carl Jung) and allegories. Mythology is very charming in that they resonate with emotional experience. That’s why I take a break from reality every once in a while by reading fiction.
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What romance doesn’t have a gorgeous “savior” for the heroine? It’s nice to fantasize that a great hero will “save” you from the painful realities of the material world. Of course it’s irrational to believe it, but, like I said, it’s a break and a relief.
Posted by True Democrat on Thursday, Oct 25, 2012 5:20 PM (EST):Kathleen,
I don’t know what you are referring to.”
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Just google it.
FYI,Ann Coulter write a great book about mob behavior.
Earl Thompson:
Thanks for your response! I suspect from your response you have no belief in God. I can understand that. Perhaps you’d like to have a civil discussion/debate on that? In the meantime, let me respond to your response.
True, while I may not truly know your thoughts or feelings, that isn’t necessarily a requirement for being united spiritually, now is it? If you are feeling pain, I can surely empathize with you, can’t I? I can be sad because your sad. I can rejoice if you are happy. We are united in a sense through this immaterial experience of sadness or joy.
Spiritual communion religious nonsense? Are democratic ideals something material that can be measured (height, weight, length, mass, etc?). And yet aren’t we all united in someway by these non-physical ideals that we share? We are experiencing that right now: Democrats…..Republicans. Groups of people “united” or in “communion” through shared beliefs. These ideals that we share can be thought of us uniting us spiritually through our shared beliefs. We form a common union…aka a communion.
There is no “Satan?” Well yea, if you don’t believe God you have no basis to believe in Satan. Which leads me to my question at the start of this response.
Christian brotherhood and sisterhood is not an imaginary realm. Would you say that about “Democrats” or “Republicans”, who happen to be united by intangible, immaterial ideas that form the basis of their respective party platforms? Is this “union” they experience “imaginary?” Or what about “Communists”—aren’t they united in their shared belief of an abstract idea?
Mystical Body of Christ “nonsense?”—Again, well yea if you don’t believe in God or Christ you won’t believe in this. Which leads me back to my question at the start of this response.
People in heaven pray for the living? Um yea. Of course, if you don’t believe in heaven you won’t accept this concept (yet again, brings me back to question at start of response). But if you do believe in Heaven, it’s not hard to believe the saints pray for us.
As far as praying for people who have not been canonized yet. You are making a huge assumption that they are not in heaven because the church has not yet formalized it via a canonization by the Pope. Canonization is simply the Church recognizing as “saintly” someone that is of utmost virtue. It doesn’t mean that those not canonized are not in heaven (i.e. not saints). Which is why we celebrate “All Saints Day” next week—we honor those saints we know of (i.e. canonized) and those not formally recognized in a canonization ceremony. One doesn’t have to be canonized a saint, to be a saint. But again, if you can’t understand/accept the concept of God, this concept you won’t follow.
Santa Claus - big difference. There are historical records from humans who have actually lived that have testified that Jesus was real, similar to how we have historical records and human accounts that testify that Charlemagne was real, or William B. Travis, or Genghis Khan or John Adams. My suspicion is though you don’t accept Him as real because you don’t accept the accounts of Him as being real because they include such extraordinary events that have not been seen before that you have trouble believing.
“Culture of Death” is alive and well (that sentence sounds like an oxymoron, like “Jumbo Shrimp”). But look how much violence….death…surrounds us. Millions of babies killed LEGALLY (I suspect you don’t believe abortion is the killing of an innocent baby).
Finally, I’m thinking of changing my name to “Giants in Five Games”, or perhaps “Giants Sweep!”
Everything Ann Coulter writes is pollution. She is poison.
“Perhaps you’d like to have a civil discussion/debate on that?”
Not really. There’s no point to it. Your mind is made up and my mind is made up and a “discussion” would simply be a waste of time. You have no “evidence” and I’m not interested in “belief without evidence”. There are plenty of such “discussions” out there on the Internet.
“We are united in a sense through this immaterial experience of sadness or joy.”
Not really. How do you really know what I am feeling? Maybe I’m just lying to you. How would you know? You would know only if there is some sort of human communication and you thought you had reason to trust that communication. That’s not really “immaterial experience” - it’s the real experience of human communication.
“Is this “union” they experience “imaginary?””
Well, the “union”, such as it is, is held together only by human communication. So that’s certainly not “imaginary”, but it’s certainly not “immaterial”.
“There are historical records from humans who have actually lived that have testified that Jesus was real”
Not really. The “historical Jesus” is more and more becoming the “mythological Jesus” as more and more historical evidence is uncovered and analyzed.
“because they include such extraordinary events that have not been seen before”
A “miracle” simply violates the laws of physics and there’s no evidence that any “miracle” has ever occurred. So your “extraordinary events” are simply dismissed as fictional.
“But look how much violence…death…surrounds us.”
Irrelevant. There has been “violence/death” in this world for billions of years. So what? There is much less human pain and suffering in this world on a per capita basis than at any previous time in human history. Read “The Better Angels of Our Nature”.
“I suspect you don’t believe abortion is the killing of an innocent baby”
If I did hold that opinion, would I be alone in that opinion? It has been 39 years since Roe vs. Wade. If you are so in favor of innocent babies, why is the Catholic church against IVF? Why is the Catholic church against contraception? Note that surveys indicate the 90% of Catholics use contraception at some time or another. They better “confess” and “seek forgiveness” or they will all go to “hell” (as if there really was such a place).
Jennifer’s athiest trolls sure like to read her articles. There were many saints that were hermits. Sometimes I think I’d like to be a hermit until I miss my grandchildren.
Actually, my mind is not set. I’m always open to changing my mind to the Truth. So if you can show me the Truth, I’d be more than happy to change my mind. That’s exactly what Aquinas and others did. There are plenty of proofs out there that reveal the existence of the God (see Aquinas, Kreeft, among others). So if you can show me evidence God does not exist , perhaps you can sway me to your Truth.
So you think the only communication we do is through physical means?
Id’ be curious to see what proofs you have that there was no historical Jesus. There is plenty of evidence that there was indeed a historical Jesus. In fact, more historical evidence exists for Jesus than for some other things we are regard as “fact”. And if Jesus is simply a man that people later attributed mythological attributes, then it’s probably the first time in history that a myth was written within a generation or less of the person in question. Myths take form several generations from the time that person lived, not within that person’s lifetime or even a generation later. Otherwise, there would be eyewitnesses to refute the “myth”.
Actually, there is indeed evidence that the miracles Jesus performed actually occurred. Witnesses. In fact, after His resurrection he appeared to some 500 people. People actually saw Him do these miracles.
Why is the Church against IVF? Simply put, the unitive and procreative dimensions of marital intercourse may never be intentionally separated. It is morally wrong for married couples or anyone to attempt to generate human life outside of, or apart from, the act of marital sexual intercourse because to do so severs those dimensions: in IVF, procreation takes place in a Petri dish, apart from the unitive dimension of the conjugal act. Augustine’s ancient idea is useful here: “The end doesn’t justify the means”.
Why is the Church against contraception? see above (the part about unitive and procreative dimensions of marital).
The fact that there are Catholics who don’t hold the Church’s beliefs on IVF or contraception says nothing about the morality of the Church’s belief. A billion people can say the moon is made of cheese, but it doesn’t make it so (unless we change the definition of “cheese”).
Just curious, in the deaths per capita quote, are you including those people who are killed within the womb?
Giants in six games:
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Once again, a believer puts forth the lame fallacy of putting the burden on the atheist to “prove” God does not exist.
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You wouldn’t change your belief in God because it is not based on evidence, and you would never accept anything as evidence against it.
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Why don’t you disprove the statement “God does not exist?” If you’re going to confuse science and religion, then use scientific method to support your God hypothesis.
Why is Jen’s blog such a magnet for atheist jerks who just come here looking for a fight? Don’t the Luminous Children of Reason have something better to do than take a dump all over some woman’s meditative prose on a blog written for a Catholic audience? You’d think being in the Evolutionary Vanguard would keep you quite busy.
Jennifer does not read the comments anyway.
Wise woman. Who needs that kind of negativity.
Amplifying several points made in this discussion, The Rule of St. Benedict can clarify. Quoted below, with the link for your further reading, St. Benedict notes that the state of living alone or in community must be grounded on a “rule” and on “accountability” for adhering to the rule.
His rule is built soundly on scripture. Indeed, many sections are built on direct quotes of scripture. He built a communal life that provided for solitary time, but always in their attempt to live the life that Christ calls us to, he grounded the monks in the accountability found in community.
Excerpted from The Rule of St. Benedict:
It is well known that there are four kinds of monks.
The first kind are the CENOBITES: [the strongest of the four]
those who live in monasteries
and serve under a rule and an Abbot….
The second kind are the ANCHORITES or HERMITS:
those who,
no longer in the first fervor of their reformation,
but after long probation in a monastery,
having learned by the help of many brethren
how to fight against the devil,
go out well armed from the ranks of the community
to the solitary combat of the desert.
They are able now,
with no help save from God,
to fight single-handed against the vices of the flesh
and their own evil thoughts.
SARABAITES – These, not having been tested,
as gold in the furnace (Wis. 3:6),
by any rule or by the lessons of experience,
are as soft as lead….
They live in twos or threes, or even singly,
without a shepherd,
in their own sheepfolds and not in the Lord’s.
Their law is the desire for self-gratification….
GYROVAGUES – These spend their whole lives tramping from province to province,
staying as guests in different monasteries
for three or four days at a time.
Always on the move, with no stability,
they indulge their own wills
and succumb to the allurements of gluttony,
and are in every way worse than the Sarabaites….
For complete citation:
http://www.osb.org/rb/text/rbejms1.html#1
G6G-
“Now you may continue to say “FALSE” simply for lack of empirical science, but in doing so you must also deny the logical/reasoning.”
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Where the hell did you learn that!?! Do you have a source?
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Have you ever heard the phrase “begging the question?” Your “logic” is saying God exists because you think so. That is not science, that is religion, which is not based on logic. So stop asking for science to give you “proof” when you don’t have a definition of “proof.”
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“the Truth”
Hilarious. Only science finds “truth” and science knows that its “truth” is provisional. The fact that you think there really is something called “the Truth” indicates your unconditional acceptance of a supernatural religion.
“There are plenty of proofs out there that reveal the existence of the God”
Your sentence is missing the word “failed”.
“So if you can show me evidence God does not exist”
Hilarious. I cannot even show you “evidence” that unicorns don’t exist! Can you show me evidence that they do?
“I’d be curious to see what proofs you have that there was no historical Jesus.”
As usual, you are misusing the word “proof”. But there is plenty of information out there. I am under no obligation to dispel your ignorance.
“Actually, there is indeed evidence that the miracles Jesus performed actually occurred. Witnesses.”
Hilarious. What you mean is that your book of mythology claims that there were witnesses. Dismissed as unsatisfactory.
“the unitive and procreative dimensions of marital intercourse may never be intentionally separated.”
Why not? Because your Pope says so? Hilarious.
“The end doesn’t justify the means”.
Hilarious. Who gets to decide whether or not the ends justify the means? Can they pass laws requiring vaccinations? Is there a religious exception? Can they pass laws deciding when to “pull the plug” on a “brain dead” person? Can they spend billions in Iraq and Afghanistan? Who decodes what means may be used to achieve what ends?
“The fact that there are Catholics who don’t hold the Church’s beliefs on IVF or contraception says nothing about the morality of the Church’s belief.”
Absolutely correct. So who does get to decide what is or is not moral? Your Pope? I don’t think so.
“Why is Jen’s blog such a magnet for atheist jerks who just come here looking for a fight?”
1) She often says silly things about atheists.
2) She claims she once was an atheist and she thinks that gives her some insight into something.
3) It’s fun tweaking the nose of the giant.
4) The responses of the “true believers” are soooo hilariously ignorant.
“You’d think being in the Evolutionary Vanguard would keep you quite busy.”
Hilarious. I’m retired of course.
“Who needs that kind of negativity?”
Why are you bothering to read and respond?
“and succumb to the allurements of gluttony,”
Hilarious.
“because all they need to do is deny and say something is false, without necessarily showing why.”
You have no “evidence”, that’s why.
“deny the (mounting) evidence”
You have NO evidence. How’s that for denial?
“Now you may continue to say “FALSE” simply for lack of empirical science”
Yes, I can.
“but in doing so you must also deny the logical/reasoning.”
Your opinion on that matter is stupid.
“Science ... has not been able to synthesize or create a human eye.”
Hilarious. Why would science want to create a human eye when the actual instruments for detecting electromagnetic radiation are a jillion times better than a human eye? On the other hand, science is getting better at creating “artificial sight” for blind people. It took evolution a billion years to create a human eye and an optic nerve and a brain that understands reality. Why should you expect science to even want to do that? How ridiculous!
“If we find it illogical that a simple wristwatch could come into existence purely by chance in this world, does it seem logical to think that an infinitely more complex system of complex components would come into existence on this Earth purely by chance?”
Your ignorance knows no bounds.
“The existence of the human person practically screams “Intelligent Design!””
to someone completely ignorant of evolution.
“To have an intelligent design, one needs an intelligent designer. This Intelligent Designer is what we refer to as “God.””
And your ignorance is very anti-science. Please homeschool your children to keep them ignorant. You would not want them exposed to the science that they would encounter in a public school.
Mr. Thompson, in the case of this particular article, Jennifer did nothing to engage atheists in a dialogue on questions of faith. There are many such blogs where you could carry on an honest debate with others who would have interest in this. I look forward to retirement soon, and your use of retirement strikes me as a waste of good human energy. You pose as one who wishes to debate faith, a quite dishonest approach in the blogisphere where we have the wonderful opportunity of dialoguing with one another, and it takes the better part of 42 posts here for you to admit it is all a game meant to demean, belittle, provoke, and bully. You have reached retirement (if I can believe anything you say), and this is the fruit of your life? Forget the intellectual posturing you have offered us. The moral character of one who uses blog posts in this way does nothing to recommend your intellectual stance. Jennifer’s post was directed to Christians, seeking consideration of ways to be effective and authentic in their faith. You are wasting our time with your nonsense. If you truly wish to engage in intellectual dialogue on faith, I suggest the website www.internetmonk.com. Or you can wait for a post where Jennifer actually does direct herself to atheists. But in either case, if you were as intellectual as you posit, readers would expect your arguments to rise above “hillarious.”
I get it now—
“Jane” and “Giants” are reverse trolls. They are writing to exasperate agnostic/atheists. After all, nobody outside of an institution with the ability to type would really be so dense as believe the so-called “logic” of faith.
.
If they really believed their nonsense, I wouldn’t trust them with a knife and fork.
“Mr. Thompson, in the case of this particular article, Jennifer did nothing to engage atheists in a dialogue on questions of faith.”
Irrelevant. All of her posts are fatuous. I might as well point that out.
http://www.ncregister.com/blog/jennifer-fulwiler/what-i-dont-get-about-the-atheist-view-of-science
Really silly.
“The moral character of one who uses blog posts in this way does nothing to recommend your intellectual stance.”
Hilarious. The choir is not interested in atheism.
“You are wasting our time with your nonsense.”
Of course. You are wasting your time replying.
“readers would expect your arguments to rise above “hillarious [sic].”
I have only one observation: You have no evidence. There is no argument. So everything you write about religious nonsense is “hilarious”.
This article resonates deeply with me. You are right, the Catholic Church does have a vision for our lives and it does not involve being alone. You say the only exception seems to be hermits. I guess I’m the other exception. I’m not physically separated from people; in fact, I do have a very wide range of friends. I just feel like I can’t get close to anyone even though my heart is screaming for that intimate friendship. I’d rather be physically stabbed in the heart or have an arm torn off than feel this loneliness that I’ve felt for way too long. Fears of abandonment and accidentally becoming someone else’s burden keep me from opening up, but also so does the fact that none of my current friends are Catholic (in fact, they’re probably the complete opposite). They definitely know I’m a Catholic, ha! They still invite me places, so I guess I haven’t completely alienated them! lol! They are good people, but it’s just not that intimate connection you were talking about. I praise God everyday for the hope He has given me, and the many blessings He has given me in this loneliness including perseverance. Still, I feel like I’m constantly begging saying to God, “Okay, don’t you think enough is enough? Can you please send someone into my life who will truly care about me so I don’t feel alone?” (This just made my eyes water, it truly is my deepest prayer right now. It just gets so hard).
Megan, your situation is one I can relate to. Over fifteen years ago, when my mother died, many other parts of our life were crumbling or teetering, and I was quite isolated. In such situations, being in a group of people from whom we are disconnected can actually serve to intensify the loneliness. I had one small group of writer friends who met weekly who helped me through this period. And I finally found an interest that engaged me with others who shared this same interest. It took time (years) to rebuild and come out of the isolation. The intimate human friendship can come, but it is a special relationship that takes time to kindle before it takes off and burns on its own. You are Catholic. Have you looked into participating with some kind of pro-life activity? Like you, most of my friends are agnostic or atheists, and I am able to easily socialize with them. But the friends I have cultivated who share my faith are able to relate with my heart at a different level. These many years later, I believe God is able to use these lonely times I went through. I have learned how fragile human relationships are and to keep my primary relationship with God strong and active. And I have a greater sensitivity today for those who are lonely and isolated. I hope that this will give me an opportunity to “offer a cup of water” to them, when, in the past, I would not have recognized their hurt. I will offer prayers up with you in my mind and heart.
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