Praise God!  Praise God for this beautiful story and Praise God for the courage of this priest to speak the Truth to his congregation and now to us through your beautiful article.  Lord, please help our society to embrace this Truth and the courage to live it out.  Blessed Mother Mary, please pray for us.

Ready, absolutely!  It is time for us as Catholics to band together.  I have a Co-Authored blog post this morning on this topic…we have a blog hop.  We would love to have more stories to share…from “The 98%”. Please come join us:  http://michelle-endlessstrength.blogspot.com/2012/02/we-are-98.html

Awesome. Just. Awesome.

This Priest should go nation wide with his sermon, starting with the USCCB. At every prayer meeting that abortion is mentioned, I bring up the need to stop birth-control and each Priest gets very uncomfortable, along with some of the “prayees”. There is so much damage to be undone, but, with God, ALL THINGS ARE POSSIBLE!!  Jennifer, I pray that this article will get out into the Catholic world and every parish will become Catholic once again. Thank you and I know that Our Blessed Lady is showering Fr. Jonathan with many blessings from Heaven. Just think of how many souls are lost in hell because of birth control and how many people have received Jesus while in a state of mortal sin.  +JMJ+

Sad to say such Homilys are long overdue. Only ONCE in the last fourty years have I heard a Catholic priest at my local parish say anything about the church’s pro life stand on Abortion-contraceptives from the pulpit on a bi-weekly let alone a regular basis. That priest retired in January and I hope his successor in Wolcott Ct. continues the sermons on Transubstantion, Moral as well as pro life activities like the retiree did in the past.

I still don’t understand by what biblical passage the Bath Conference of 1930 justified the promotion of contraception. There’s nowhere in the Bible that promotes the use of contraception. There are a bunch of passages against the use the of contraception - but none for it (in fact, there’s asin on the Old Testament called Onanism, which deals with this issue). And for that matter, how are non-Catholic Christians justifying it today if their only authority is scripture?
Hopefully as a result of all this, people will begin to realize that the increase in abortions is a result of failed contraception and that abortion is used as a means of contraception. If they can draw the correlation, then we might get somewhere. But, the mentallity still exists that you can be against abortion, but in favor of contraception. Fr. Joseph Fesio, S.J. once said that the killing of innocent life is terrible. But, preventing it is EVEN WORSE because in an abortion you are killing an human life, but in utilizing contraception you are saying that you don’t even want a life to exist!!!!

We should all applaud your priest.  Speaking about difficult truths is a courageous act especially in our Protestantized and Feminized Church that developed after Vatican II. The Church’s teachings on sex related subjects have have not been preached as if they were unspeakable.  To speak of them is to offend people and that would not be nice.  So consequently these teaching have been honored only in their breach by most Catholics who understand it is OK to pick and choose among our doctrines.  It is all just a matter of opinion they think.  How did all this come to pass?  Mostly, I think, the clergy are to blame by their posture of passive approval.  After all we in the pews are the sheep who need a shepherd to lead us, remind us and encourage us.  It is high time the Bishops and the priests got serious on these matters.  If not, they will have some explaining to do in the hereafter.  We had a priest in our parish in Venice, FL speak about this recently and he received a standing ovation.  How good this must have felt for him and how good it felt for us who heard it.  Let us all celebrate the TRUTH as it will set us free and make us happy.  A strong Church results from a strong message.  I hope all the clergy are listening as they are hearing it loud and clear.

Great and welcome news…the last sentence however speaks volumes of what most Catholics think of The Holy Sacrifice of The Mass…entertainment.

You can get a thousand people into your sanctuary? That must be the largest church in America or in the world. You probably mean the Knave which is where the people attending sit. Standing ovations in church during mass are completely out of place. The thought about the priest telling it like it is reminds us of the way Jesus spoke (straight forward) to his followers. The priest must be careful to not drift into secular politics while talking on the facts of life. The humans were created so that they can “go forth and multiply” not make their relationship (man and wife) a lustful adventure by inhibiting a natural process for sheer pleasure.

Nedra - oops! I did mean the nave. I’ll correct that.
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“Standing ovations in church during mass are completely out of place.”
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I will note that I’d never heard people applaud a homily before—it’s certainly not routine at our church. It was just a spontaneous thing that happened, I think as the result of all the tension that had been building around this issue. People pretty quickly stopped, since there was a sense that it was out of place at the Mass, but it was as if everyone was so thankful to hear it they broke into applause before they even realized what they were doing.

What a courageous priest you have, one who takes his vocation to lead us to heaven seriously! The truth is the truth, whether “we” like to hear it or not. Blessed are the righteous, and blessed are those who are persecuted for the sake of righteousness.

And great article as usual, Jennifer, thank you so much.

Fr Jonathan: insightful, articulate, empathic, courageous. But very problematic. I don’t have any point chips this size.

Awesome, awesome and more awesomeness!!!  Living in very Liberal Canada in an extremeley liberal diocese, I have never heard a homiliy on the evils of contraception.  And any holy priest who would dare speak out in a homily just gets shipped to a parish on the outskirts of society.  It brought tears to my eyes Jen when I read your last line.  I think that when the truth is spoken so clearly, we as humans can’t help but react in a physical manner such as applause.  I was at a mass on Life Sunday at a wonderful church in Ann Arbor MI and Fr. Ed gave this just amazing homily on abortion and human life.  He stated the truth so blatantly, that the church just erupted when he finished.  It was awesomeness!!!!  God Bless these holy priests who aren’t afraid to tell-it-like-it-is at the pulpit.  And let us never forget to pray for all of our priests.

With contraception starting to be questioned in the secular media as well, it sounds like it may indeed be time.

Although many of your readers may have heard Janet Smith’s “Contraception: Why Not?” on tape or CD, I recently found that she’s also posted it online in mp3 format at http://www.janetsmith.excerptsofinri.com

In our parish, a similar thing happened. It was inspirational.  BTW, the bogus nature of that oft-quoted statistic concerning 98% of women using contraception has come out. Though it is likely well more than 50%, it is not as high as the number implies, namely, that 98% currently or consistently use artificial contraception.  One bias in the 98% number is that the answer to the question would be “yes” if a woman used artificial contraception for a short period of time or even just once and then discontinued it.

I once heard our young parish vicar—a very bad homilist—give a beautiful and nuanced explanation of the Church’s stand on contraception in the more intimate setting of a marriage preparation seminar. Obviously, the setting makes a difference. I’m just glad when the Truth is preached. No matter where, though, the “caring father” approach you mention undoubtedly works best.

That also happened at our Church in Cincinnati a couple of weeks in a row.  I can honestly say I have never been more inspired or more proud of the Dominicans at our Church than when they addressed this issue head on…there were a few standing ovations…which while it may not seem appropriate at Mass…The Mass is a celebration and our priests must be told/shown when they have inspired us…We Catholics have sat quietly entirely too long and look where it has gotten us.  That was a very good homily, by the way, thanks for sharing the podcast.

You are very blessed to have a priest who was willing to tackle this topic, in a non-condemning way.  It’s a topic that can’t be addressed in sound bytes, and I can see where a priest might be intimidated to try to find a way to cover it adequately in the context of a homily.  But based on your experience, clearly it can be done.

What are the chances he will be sacked soon by the bishop and tell the media thats the Fathers comments do not represent the diocese but are only the person thoughts of the father.
Bound to happen.

Sharing this…it is the last paragraph from a homily given by one of our priests..

“I am afraid that this law is only a warning of things much worse that could come from a culture of death. It is a cloud on the horizon that foreshadows a rainy season. However things turn out in the upcoming months and years, This is what applies to us: we must obey God rather than men. [Nevertheless] this implies that we truly know God and that we truly wish to obey him. God is not a pretext for one’s personal will, but is really the One who calls and invites us, if necessary, even to martyrdom. Therefore, in measuring up to this word that ushers in a new history of freedom in the world, let us pray above all to know God, to know God humbly and truly, and in knowing God, to learn true obedience which is the root of human freedom.”

Literal chills when I read the last line.  I can’t tell you much our marriage has changed for the better since my husband and I began using NFP.  I hope and pray that there is a greater conversion.

You are so blessed!  May his courage and wisdom spread throughout the priesthood!

We had a fabulous homily much like that by our deacon, who is always one to speak clearly on such issues.  I only wish I had had the nerve to applaud.

What a great story! I hope more priests follow his lead and address this—with faithfulness to the message, but still tact and gentleness—from the pulpit.

I submit that contraception is the worst scourge to ever afflict mankind, the costliest by far in both blood and treasure, absolutely ruinness to women in particular and mankind in general. Since it’s acceptance, divorce rates have soared along with pornography, STD’s, homosexuality, exploitation of women, abortion, breast cancer and now government attacks on freedom of expression. Paul VI was particularly prescient in predicting government pressure in HUMANAE VITAE in explicating the Church’s beautiful teaching in this matter.
Using contraception in the marital act is akin to flipping a hand grenade with the pin pulled into the heart of a marriage.

Another EXCELLENT homily was given on this topic by Fr. Shawn Tunink at Cure of Ars Parish in Leawood, Kansas.  You can hear the homily on Fr. Shawn’s blog, www.shawnthebaptist.org

I am so excited that your priest spoke on the topic of birth control.  My parish priest won’t even talk about the HHS mandate.  sigh

Not a big fan of applause at mass, but if there ever was a time, that’s certainly it!

Praise Jesus! Finally, the message is getting out! Finally, people are beginning to understand! Contraception is not the end all or the solution to centuries of women who wanted control over their bodies. Only God has control-and we would do well to make God the center of our lives in order to understand what He expects from us. Pray that you may turn to God in your heart, that you may experience His love and grace in your lives. Amen!

@Charles…that was great - thanks for sharing.

Last time I heard q good homily on church teachings concerning a papal order I heard all of the over the hill gang after Mass complain that “church is not the place to talk about that, and what does that have to do with us?”. I’m sure this courageous priest took some flack like that also, so maybe it is something that needs that type of meticulous explanation.

Our priest began by ‘sneaking’ the mention of contraception into the prayers of the faithful…..praying against those affronts to life: Euthanasia, Abortion, and Contraception.  That paved the way for the homily on contraception. Actually he has given it more than once. And he tells the faithful that if they are practicing contraception they are outside of the teachings of the Church. No one has walked out and only a couple of angry responses; overall the people ARE ready for it!  The faithful have been starving for the Truths of the faith for decades and have been given pablum.  How many opted for sterilization because it was a “matter of conscience” and our consciences were dead? 

Better late than never.

I just emailed the article to our pastor, who has been silent on the issue so far. Now that he is back from his well-deserved vacation, I pray the Spirit will illuminate him to speak the Truth passionately and courageously. We need him now more than ever!

Your column just got mentioned in Prof Smith’s blog/column: Thank you President Obama for making Catholics more Catholic!

http://www.catholicvote.org/discuss/index.php?p=26987

A good point, brought up by Keith, regarding the “98% of Catholics have used contraception” statistic. 

That was my first thought when I heard it, too. 

99% of Americans have been to McDonald’s.  That doesn’t mean we’re all there at THIS VERY MOMENT or that we have any intention of going back.

Jen, thank you for sharing this story.  I recently converted to Catholicism, but my wife (who is not converting - yet) and I had decided to stop using contraceptives before I decided to become Catholic.  There are perfectly good scientific reasons to avoid it.  My wife’s family is highly susceptible to breast cancer, and hormonal birth control has been linked to an increased risk of breast cancer.  In fact, the World Health Organization lists it as a Class 1 Carcinogen.  Additionally, we try to live as “naturally” and simply as we can.  Hormonal contraception is a medication that is not treating a disease; instead, it forces women’s bodies to function abnormally.  Despite the common argument that it’s about health, it can’t be about “health” because if you want to be truly healthy, you let your body function normally. (I do recognize there are certain conditions in which it *is* treating a medical problem, but let’s be honest, for the vast majority that’s not why they use it.)

I recently sent an email to our parish priest, who is generally very solid, telling him that it’s not enough to complain about the HHS mandate if no one understands why contraception was wrong in the first place. His reply was that is left for the deacons (who give a homily every other month and never on contraception) and that we have to be sensitive to kids in the pews.  So it goes.  Is it any wonder that there’s this mess?

Thank God for priests like Fr. Jonathan!

My Catholic husband and I practiced birth control and still had two accidents which brought us two more lovely sons.  I feel the Church is making laws, not supported by the Bible, that come from the Dark Ages.

Priests should be allowed to marry.  Perhaps there wouldn’t have been the child molesting cases. Which is worse ...allowing a priest to marry or to continue allowing them to molest children, which they will do and someone will cover it up?  Let grown married people decide when to have children without the Church’s interference.

Nancy, your comment is all over the place and full of ignorance, which is further evidence that more and better teaching is needed within the Church.

Do you know what frequently happens when a priest gives strong sermons regarding abortion or homosexual acts?  As the mother of a good priest, I can tell you.  Angry,  poorly catechized, liberal Catholics complain to his pastor and/or the vicar of priests for the diocese… and the priest is usually thrown on the ‘red carpet’ and accused of not being ‘pastoral’.  Thereafter, the priest is on the proverbial hot seat with the vicar of priests of his diocese over every little thing that can be complained about!  The great priests who rock the liberal boat know, for a fact, that ‘boat rocking’ is the kiss of death for them.  The answer is simple!  When a good priest stands up and gives good, solid sermons get off your duff and write the diocese letters supporting him and always send a copy to that priest!!!

Very well done sermon.

For too long the local church has been silent about the evils of contraception. Many Catholics don’t even know it is a sin; and very many have no idea why it is a sin. Why did that unholy silence last so long? The obvious answer is that individual bishops and priests chose to erect their personal and wrong-minded ideas to that of doctrine. More sadly many no longer believe in the doctrine of the church. Thanks to Obama’s evil administration, normally placid Catholics have been forced to take sides. There is no time for inaction. Those who have rejected Catholic morality and have refused to teach it must be ushered out of the church. We have a rare opportunity to help God turn evil into good.

Both our parish priests regularly speak about the evils of contraception and abortion…and guess what…you can barely find an open seat on Sunday if you show up 5 minutes before the start of mass.

Jen - as you probably know, Fr. J is a friend of mine and a very holy priest. He is not shy about teaching the truth, nor are many other priests in our diocese. Here at St. Mary’s we are also blessed to have priests who do not shy away from this topic, nor do the rest of us on staff. We try to form our college students in their sexuality, because without that formation we will lose them, it is just a matter of time.

Now is the day of salvation. Now is the time to talk about contraception.

Wonderfully writtem and spoken. We cannot discount the efforts of pre-Cana courses and the active Natural Family planning groups around the Catholic world, and of other prophetic voices going back to the australian physican and his nurse wife who were pioneers in the development of Natural Family Planning today and early educators in the abortion discussion. He insisted on showing pictures when he talked, to give the debate a fair hearing.

With one exception, the commentators thus far seem to be of one mind.  What an historic event-and on Ash Wednesday !!!

This moment in Catholic America’s life calls for a celebration:  how about we all pray the Rosary today !!!

[Already did ? Pick up your beads and pray the Chaplet of Divine Mercy)

Nancy,

‘My Catholic husband and I practiced birth control and still had two accidents which brought us two more lovely sons.  I feel the Church is making laws, not supported by the Bible, that come from the Dark Ages.’

I’ve heard it all before: “What’s a bunch of old men in rome telling me what I can and can’t do in the bedroom?” If this message is so “old”, why were there nearly 1 million people at World Youth Day Last Year? Also, many young seminarians also subscribe to this. Not to mention, many young married couples ALSO subscribe to this - particularly those home schooling families with more than 6 kids.

“Priests should be allowed to marry.”

I don’t know what this has to do with the subject at hand. But, ask any Protestant minister about the logic of the Church’s stance and he will agree that ministers who are married have a much more difficult task becasue they are constantly divided between their family and service to the their church. And the ones who pay the price: the wife and children, They will always come second. You don’t even have to go outside of the Catholic Church - ask any deacon. Finally, there are married priests. the issue is not whether they should be allowed to marry. If you are single and called to priesthood, then you shall remain sungle. But, the Church can call a married man into priesthood. Look at the priest coming over from the Episcopal Church: They’re married. But, they were married FIRST.

“Perhaps there wouldn’t have been the child molesting cases. Which is worse ...allowing a priest to marry or to continue allowing them to molest children, which they will do and someone will cover it up?  Let grown married people decide when to have children without the Church’s interference.”

First of all, those “child molesting cases” were not true child molesting cases becasue most of the victims were not under 6 years of age - they were pre-pubescent otr post-pubescent - within the “age of consent”. These are called hebephilia and ephebophilia:

http://human-stupidity.com/stupid-dogma/teenage-sexuality/what-is-a-pedophile-hebephile-ephebophile-teleiophile-infantophile

Also, what you DIDN’T hear about those cases - thanks in part largely to the pro-gay media, was that the majority of the cases were SAME-SEX attractions and abuses, which - by definition - are acts of homosexuality. The problem here was not pedophilia/ephebophilia/hebephilia: It was Homosexuality. The Church made the mistake in the past of allowing homosexual men into the seminaries. Lastly, for your information, less than 2% of priests did this. Do you know that in other faiths the incidents are sexual absue with minors is as high as 10%? Also, did you know that there are higher incidents of this in the public school?

I go to Mass at a traditional parish with a TLM.  I can’t remember a time when I did not hear preaching against contraception from the pulpit. Wacky traditionalists.

And please never, ever, applaud at Mass.  It’s a homily not a political rally.  Simply thanking Father after Mass in the vestibule or outside wherever he is would be the way to go.  Solemnity, modesty and decorum in God’s house always.

We tried NFP and it was a terrible decision for us.

We learned the Creighton Model, which was taught at a local Catholic hospital. I believe that NFP is an effective method of avoiding pregnancy when used properly because in our case it was mostly abstinence. We had only 7-12 “safe” days each 26-28 day cycle, and of course, we had to abstain in when we were most interested in sex. My wife was constantly confused about the symptoms of fertility and obsessed with missing a measurement or getting one wrong.

Frustration leads to “risking it”, which leads to pregnancy. Our first child was marginally planned as we used a day on the edge of fertility. We were not ready for a child and struggled as young parents.

As bad as it was while cycling, it was even worse while breastfeeding. She was constantly fertile. Our professionally trained counselor tried to help us “manage” the symptoms to find out when she was truly fertile. This “management” led to our second daughter, 19 months after the first, on her first cycle.

The only good thing is that she felt a lot better without all the artificial hormones in her body.

My wife, who was not raised Catholic, left the Church and has no interest in returning. She got an IUD only because the doctor talked her out of permanent sterilization due to her age. (And if she gets rid of the IUD, she will get sterilized. She is a perfectly planned only child and absolutely positively does not want any more.) I would never ask her to risk her health for sex, but this was her choice and she understands and accepts the health risks.

She is not supportive of raising our daughters Catholic for this very reason. She does not want them to go through what she did. She resents people not telling the whole truth about NFP.

I did hear a priest give a sermon against contraception once. After what happened to us, I nearly walked out I was so angry.

Some people may like it, but I can’t for understand why. Yes, getting rid of the hormones makes the woman feel better, but there are much better methods of birth control. Our experience is that Catholic teaching is a burden on couples and a burden on women.

“Both our parish priests regularly speak about the evils of contraception and abortion…and guess what…you can barely find an open seat on Sunday if you show up 5 minutes before the start of mass.”

I don’t think anyone should be surprised about that no contraception leads to full seats at mass. The reason why should be obvious.

We once had a couple briefly speak about NFP towards the end of Mass at our parish years ago.  Good time as any to speak out about it again.

Finally, your parish priest deserves a big thank you!  :)

Yessssss!  I’m not a “clapper” either, but I would have.  God BLESS your good priest.  Bless, bless, bless him!  And Bless you for writing about it.  Awesome.

We hace excellent priest here at St. Thomas the Apostle.  Our priests aslo give homilies on contraception and abortion.  Fr Ehrich gives a homily each year on the anniversary of Humanae Vitae.  One of Fr Vietor’s first homilies was on abortion, and also resulted in applause.

You can listen to their homilies via podcast or on the parish website.

BTW in 2004, the Dept of Ed released a study that showed for every 1 child allegedly abused by a clergyman, 100 were abused by an educator.

http://www2.ed.gov/rschstat/research/pubs/misconductreview/report.pdf

I guess dissenting voices are not allowed here. My previous post was censored. To summarize: NFP was a disaster for us and a big reason why my wife is no longer Catholic.

“NFP was a disaster for us”

By disaster, you mean you have children that you wish didn’t exist??

It’s not 100% effective, but if you are using the right method, it’s pretty close.  No “failures” in 20+ years here, but even if unforeseen children did result, I wouldn’t call it a “disaster.”

For us, NFP (Creighton) involved, lots of abstinence, lots of frustration, lots of work (especially from her), lots of confusion about the symptoms, lots of fear about getting the observations wrong, and two unplanned pregnancies to show for it.

She left because God’s true Church would not lie to anyone, and that is exactly what the Catholic NFP advocates did.

This has been such a divisive issue within the Church for decades. So many Catholics are finally waking up to it, and there is comment after comment here about clapping? When a child takes his first steps, do you criticize his poor balance or celebrate that he is learning?

I think we should all try to be more charitable towards our fellow Catholics, especially considering how many may just be realizing the full truth about this teaching. Zeroing in on small problems or mistakes (mistakes committed out of a genuine desire to support a wonderful priest, by the way) just seems a bit strange and “holier than thou” given the situation.

WOW. Fr. Raia goes on my Hero list. I’ve never - not one single time - heard anything against abortion or contraception in a sermon at my home parish, and we are in the Bible Belt. Can we borrow your priest? Purty please???

NFP disaster:  yes, dissenting comments are allowed here.  Did you see Nancy’s comment above?  Sometimes comments get perceived as spam, especially if they’re long.  This has happened to me many times in the past;  it’s a computer glitch.

Creighton isn’t the only NFP method.  It is very effective for most people, not for all.  Just because it didn’t work for you doesn’t mean that it was a lie.  Some people have to go through a lot of trial and error with NFP before they find a method that is effective for them, and sometimes that involves using a combination of methods.  Yes, it is hard work.  Sometimes God calls us to do things that are hard.  I find it disturbing that you consider your two unplanned pregnancies to be part of the disaster of NFP.  I understand that there are reasons to avoid a pregnancy, but if the efforts to avoid are unsuccessful, those two new family members don’t deserve to be viewed as a disaster.

I believe one of the reasons there have not been homilies on contraception is because a majority of the priests and bishops do not support it either though they dare not speak openly. They see the toll this atrificialy constructed, man made rule has on the lives of people and marriages.  The main argument against contraception is that the primary purpose of marriage is procreation of children. That just is not so. There are two primary purposes, the other being the love and nurture of the marriage. NFP works only for a small fraction of women who have very regular menstrual periods and regular bodily temperatures. Try telling a couple with five kids under 6 that they should go through all those hoops every morning with a bunch of hungry kids who need changing, feeding and getting ready for school. To those priests and bishops who preach against contraception I would repeat the words of Christ, “woe to you scholars of the law who lay heavy burdens upon the people and lift not a finger to help them. Then too there is these wise words from a native American, “do not criticize another until you have walked two weeks in their mocassins.”

NFP Disaster,
I wanted to point you in the direction of an article Jennifer already wrote:
http://www.ncregister.com/blog/does-contraception-make-marriage-easier/

And also offer some thoughts as an NFP teacher, who has had experience with these cases: typically when NFP is described as a disaster experience, and then when we sit down and have a chat about it, there are ALWAYS a handful of circumstances outside of NFP that are contributing to excess frustrations. These may often be outside of the control of the couple…say, a job that takes the husband away for long periods of time (sometimes during the only time that intercourse was available), or menstrual irregularities that resulted in extended abstinence (was there doctor input? proactive seeking to resolve the irregularities? speaking with an NFP instructor about the problems?)...but no matter what it is, NFP is not the only thing that contributes the problems. But then it’s REAL easy to blame it all on NFP, when it’s not the only factor there that has potential to be changed.

Lastly, if it was advertised to you that NFP was 100% bliss and roses, I apologize to you on their behalf. As I always explain, NFP isn’t always easy. As with everything in life, especially the things that you value in life, it can be difficult and hard work. Bliss doesn’t always point to the right way, though. Sometimes the hard parts are what bring the most value to your life. May I suggest two values in yours, the lives of your two children. God bless.

It’s not the children that were a disaster, it was all the work that went into it for something that didn’t even work. It was the frustration and the fear. THAT was the disaster. 

NFP was a disaster because it put fear and frustration into our sexuality and that has no place in a marriage. “Trial and error” is not reassuring. I assume that you would find calling children “errors” disturbing, but that is what happens if you make an error with any method.

Time will tell. It is one thing for Sunday mass-attending Catholics to applaud a sermon, and another for all who call themselves Catholic to actually renounce contraceptives. Catholics who attend mass regularly are already a self-selected group prone to follow church teaching more conscientiously. Of course you can write off those who claim to be Catholics but who use contraception and don’t attend mass as not really Catholics. That doesn’t seem to change their self-perception and how they answer polls. Looking at the average size of Catholic families among the current generation, it would be amazing if they were all so successful at practicing NFP that they were able to produce two children and no more than two children so frequently.

An interesting survey:
http://ncronline.org/news/catholics-america/trends-catholic-commitment-stable-over-time

Our priest-pastor promised his 2 parishes homilies for 2 weekends on topics of religious liberty, the myth of “universal” health care which is centered solely on sexual activity, so-called Catholic policy makers, the abortifacient character of the pill, his willingness to go to jail rather than witness same-sex wedding ... etc.

1st weekend: as Father “returned to his chair at the side of the altar, the pews erupted in spontaneous, thunderous applause” at all 3 Masses at our parish.  Eagerly awaiting homily #2.

I am in my mid-60s and literally cried when I heard this young (in his 40s) priest.  He told us his group of priests who meet regularly for support also gave similar homilies.  I suspect that is true throughout US.

Ready?  We’re beyond ready, and I credit our pastor for leading us in the last 4 years: he is devoted to Mary, the Eucharist, and making sure we (and he) become saints.

I’m not holding my breath for such a homily.  In my church our priest talks about liberation theology, a doctrine long ago denounced by the Church.  This priest will never speak in public about contraception, abortion or even our pagan society in general. Where are the “real” priests of our Church??

Even if we could chart perfectly, she would not go back to NFP. This did come up recently and she got very angry at me even bringing it up.

She is considering permanent sterilization so that she never has to worry about avoiding pregnancy again. She is adamant about not wanting to have any more children. After talking to her about her opinions on the matter, I don’t see how NFP would do anything but cause more harm.

NFP Disaster,

I would also offer some thoughts as an NFP teacher, who has had experience with these cases: typically when NFP is described as a disaster experience, and then when we sit down and have a chat about it, there are ALWAYS a handful of circumstances outside of NFP that are contributing to excess frustrations. These may often be outside of the control of the couple…say, a job that takes the husband away for long periods of time (sometimes during the only time that intercourse was available), or menstrual irregularities that resulted in extended abstinence (was there doctor input? proactive seeking to resolve the irregularities? speaking with an NFP instructor about the problems?), or marital issues that NFP simply brings out into the open…but no matter what it is, NFP is not the only thing that contributes the problems. But then it’s real easy to blame it all on NFP, when it’s not the only factor there that has potential to be changed.

Secondly, if it was advertised to you that NFP was 100% bliss and roses, I apologize to you on their behalf. As I always explain, NFP isn’t always easy. As with everything in life, especially the things that you value in life, it can be difficult and hard work. Bliss doesn’t always point to the right way, though. Sometimes the hard parts are what bring the most value to your life. May I suggest two values in yours, the lives of your two children.

Lastly, I’m sorry that your wife has such fear about a God-given potential that her body has. Her fertility is a gift, one given to her by God, and whether or not it is ever used again, I pray that she will have the ability to look on it without so much fear.

NFP disaster, There is a *reason* for your wife’s strong fear of pregnancy.  One thing that can’t hurt, is to lavish her with true love and support.  Try to discern the root of her aversion, and address it with a lot of kindness and of course prayer.  Many of us have had feelings like hers, but changed.  I once told my husband in a fit of pique: “I’ll die if I get pregnant again”.  Now I tell him with pain in my heart: “Look who we almost missed out on…If we hadn’t been Catholic, we might have marked that package, RETURN TO SENDER”—or sealed off God’s life giving “well” forever. I look at the children that followed, and the memory of those words makes me want to cry. (One of them is sitting on my lap rummaging in my desk drawers as I write this) I would die for them.

Boy does she need all our prayers. What a lost soul. Its all about her and what she wants. I am praying an extra rosary tonight for you and your family.

Our priest, too, read part of our Bishop’s letter a couple of weeks ago at Mass and then proceeded to teach on contraception.  He, too, was applauded (which indeed did feel a little odd at Mass) - did my heart good!

- Jennifer (lifelong Protestant - preparing to be confirmed at Easter Vigil)

YES!!!! The same thing happened at my parish. I hope they keep it up! I love it!! *goosebumps*

NFP_Disaster,

I understand how you could be perceived what happened to you as a “failure”. But, that’s precisley the attitude that the Church is trying to address via the contraception argument. Part of the problem behind the use of contraception is the underlying mentality that says: 1) Children are a burden and 2) Being closed to life. This is the real issue behind contraception. NFP is not meant to be contraception. When one is utilizing NFP, one is ALWAYS OPEN to life. And just because two people engage in the sexual act does that mean that it will result in pregnancy - even if they’re trying. How many time have you and your spouse engaged in the sexual act and DID NOT get pregnant? Assuming that you are an active couple, you only got pregnant twice?

I know of several couples who got pregnant with their first child early on in the marriage. And they were never able to get pregnant again. They thought that because they got pregnant right away that God was going to give them an abundant amount of children. And believe me, THEY’VE BEEN TRYING!!! They’ve since adopted 2 children. But, here’s an example of 2 couples who were open to life and they were not able to have more than one child naturally. I know of 2 other couples who adopted a child first because they were not able to conceive naturally and as soon as the adoption went through, the wife got pregnant. They were open to life - even a life not of their own creation. And because of their faithfulness, God rewarded them with their own biological children.

Fundamentally, that’s also why this issue of the HHS mandate against the Catholic Church goes beyond the Freedom of Religion: It’s a human rights issue, because the abortifacient drugs and contraception are all about the killing of innocent life and about the PREVENTION of the existence of life. That’s tragic. And if we don’t when life begins and where our rights come from, then we don’t have any rights.

NFP_Disaster, it’s about openness to life, always! That’s why it’s tragic that couples would utilize contraception as this not only harms their marriage, but it also harms their relationship with God. And that’s no lie!!!

Statistic: There are as many couples waiting to adopt as there are children aborted.

How I wish this was my church, or parish, or even diocese! My husband and I have practiced NFP for years, but we noticed a complete lack of any talk of it here. We researched and found out there is no teaching couple for over 200 miles! We are currently trying to get certified to teach so we can spread the word! We are also talking to every deacon, priest, and bishop we know to spread the word.

Thank you god for priests of that calibre. The last forty years of mealy mouthed preaching with all the stuff about doing what your conscience tells you or more like ‘what you feel rather than insisting on having your conscience educated have caused the problems the church is currently enduring. The hierarchy is largely to blame because they ‘don’t want to cause anyone to be offended so they largely ignored the pope’s guidance in Humanae Vitae. What the faithful want is leadership . What we get is ‘lions led by donkeys’ as they used to say about first world war generals resulting in widespread disillusionment dissent and disorder and virtually no leadership. However things I think are on the up. The old ‘spirit of vatican II’ warriors are dying off and fortunately are being replaced by people of vision and dedication to the magisterium like BenedictXVI. AMDG

Fantastic article and the last sentence said it all!  Thank you and God Bless!

Two pregnancies in three years of marriage and we married young.

We are both only children. Two children is a large family to us. Two less than two years apart was traumatic.

If we had not been able to have children, I doubt it would have bothered us. If “it’s about openness to life, always!”, then I guess there is no place for married couples who don’t want lots of kids.

There is a place for couples who don’t want lots of kids.  But ultimately, we are called to be open to life and to God’s plan, which sometimes differs from ours. 

My son is an only child (not by my choice), and I really hope this doesn’t result in him feeling that more than two is something traumatic to be feared.

FWIW: the “98%” statistic, even if it can be supported by some poll, is highly suspect.  Some adults flatly refuse to participate in polls over the phone.  Also, many are reticent in answering questions about their sex lives or practices.  My beloved wife of more than fifty years hangs up on any strangers asking questions over the phone, let alone questions about sex.
So poll results on this question would be limited to people willing to discuss their sex practices with complete strangers; therefore not representative of the adult population as a whole.
BTW, we had five children - our youngest daughter died last year in her 40s of age - and we never contracepted.  For about 16 years after the birth of our youngest, we recorded my wife’s temperatures every morning for part of each cycle.
Waiting is difficult, but we pray a lot, together.
TeaPot562

NFP_Disaster

It’s better to have had kids than not to have had any. So, be thankful that you at least had 2. What God asks us to do is to look into our hearts as to why we resist His plan. The problem is never God’s plan and design for humanity: It’s our desire or need to control the outcomes of our life. I echo the sentiments of Claire and others who have expressed their openness to life because as a married couple, that is the way that we share in God’s love: by becoming co-creators with Him.

I am a non-religious person who happened to come across this site. After reading this article I have a question that I’m hoping someone could answer.

I often hear Catholic’s using the argument that contraceptive interferes with nature. If that’s true, why is it ok for a woman to use fertility treatments to become pregnant? That messes with nature more so than taking the pill.

Just curious. Thanks!

Hi Maggie,

    Some fertility treatments are licit (meaning considered morally acceptable by the Church), and others aren’t.  Basically, artificial contraception is illicit because it renders the act of intercourse infertile.  (Natural Family Planning, on the other hand, is acceptable because it makes use of the natural phases of infertility in a woman’s cycle, rather than rendering the act itself infertile, if that makes sense.)  The other issue with the Pill is that if it fails to prevent ovulation, its other function is to make the uterus a hostile environment so that if an embryo is conceived, it will likely be aborted. 

    IVF is unacceptable from the Church’s standpoint because it separates conception from the martial act (intercourse), and because it often results in surplus embryos that are either destroyed or frozen indefinitely.  Other fertility treatments, such as fertility drugs to promote ovulation, are licit because they are assisting to increase the potential of the marital act to promote a pregnancy.  I hope this makes sense.  Let us know if you need any clarification, and I’m sure there are people out there who can explain it better than I can.

Thanks, Claire. I appreciate you taking the time to explain this to me.

Back in 1988, I wrote an article for the now defunct International Journal on Natural Family Planning, arguing that every Catholic couple marrying in the Church should have to—as part of pre-Cana—to go through an NFP course.  I delivered those remarks to a conference of priests in one deanery, who was there with the local auxiliary bishop.  The auxiliary was receptive to the idea, and even asked his assembled brothers what they thought: the reception was not positive.  Until we start talking about this like we meant it, we will be shafted and unable to defend ourselves from the inside.

I really don’t understand this: if preventing pregnancy is bad via contraceptives, why is natural family planning allowed? It also is promoted as a way to avoid pregnancy, right? I just really have never understood why NFP is ok since it allows for the seeking of pleasure in the same way as artificial contraception.

NFP can be used to avoid a pregnancy or to promote a pregnancy.  The difference between NFP and artificial contraception is that while NFP involves avoiding intercourse during the fertile time in a woman’s cycle, the act itself remains open to life.  Artificial contraception, on the other hand, renders each act infertile.  Ideally, the primary goal of the martial act should be unity between the husband and wife, with pleasure as a secondary benefit.

NFP_Disaster—- You got censored dogging on the church’s teaching on birth control? WHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA.  The whole world must be made safe from those dangerous catholics and their teaching on birth control!

One thing’s for sure - when NFP_Miracle accuses NFP advocates of lying, he’s an expert on one thing - lying.

JOHN GRONDELSKI, I’m sorry that was the experience in your deanery. I hope you’ll be glad to know that in my diocese, it is required in Pre-Cana to take an NFP course, in the methodology of one’s own choosing.

I don’t know how many dioceses follow suit, but I’ll pray for yours and any others who don’t.

I have wated 30 years to read a homily like this.(retired NFPteacher)
I circulating it as you said .To all the UK Heirarchy an papers.I hope that is OK.
I hope the Holy Father reads it!
The priest ought to have a medal

I was just shocked to see Nancy Pelosi, looking at a table of Bishops & Cardinals,saying"Where Are The Women? Tell Me, WHERE ARE THE WOMEN!”. Either she has totally lost her mind & forgotten the Pope doesn’t give red hats to women or this was all a Political Ploy at the expense of HER Church. Either she shuts up & asks forgiveness or I suggest she should personally be present when “Bell,Book & Candle” is done on her behalf so that she gets it. Then she can pretend she is a Catholic all she wants, just like I can pretend I will see her at the table.

Our priests are finally speaking up since the hit the fan. Here in Massachusetts we are facing a legal physician assisted suicide bill that could very likely pass. This is being condemned straight from the Archdiocese’s seat in Boston to each and every parish.

You can literally hear a pin drop during these times. I have a feeling the vast majority of our congregation had absolutely NO idea the situation was that serious. And it all started with HHS, now assisted suicide, only God knows what’s next.

NFP Miracle
    The poster’s remarks about failure can be found on NFP comboxes with NFP people also confirming that some NFP leaders over sell the efficacy and that it does cause anger.  You’re accusing the poster of lying, aside from being a sin of the tongue, means you haven’t read some of the more in depth threads on this by NFP people themselves who want the overselling to stop.

Robert Jones,

“Which is yet another stupid standpoint of your silly religion.
Next you’ll tell me that Satan has targeted America.  Hilarious.”

Right, ‘cause your faith is soooooo much better. What has secularism and Atheism done for America? One only needs to look at Nazism and Communism to answer those questions. Go move to China or Cuba or Russia and see how life is better there…

Well Robert Jones, some of us don’t find it stupid or silly to be concerned about the huge number of surplus embryos that are destroyed as a result of IVF.  But then there are people like you who would rather hurl insults then post well thought-out comments.

To answer snowflake-like to use NFP as contraception is wrong. It is contraception. I also have a big problem with the overselling of NFP (I am a Catholic convert, we have followed NFP on and off for day one of our marriage, but mostly off).

The big problem is that the contraceptive mentality needs to be addressed, not just physical contraceptions. NFP should not be sold as the church-approved contraceptive method, contraception is wrong. NFP is a safety net, a net for people who have discerned through prayer and discussion with their spouse and, if they want, spiritual advisors, that they have grave moral reasons to avoid a pregnancy at this time (for illness, financial reasons, whatever, it’s not your job to judge another couples reasons, it’s their job) so that they can enjoy the secondary goods of sexual intimacy with their spouse at times where they can be reasonably sure not to conceive, instead of having to abstain all the time.

But the short answer is, IMO (and this is just my opinion, I don’t know how the official church teaching would parse this) if you don’t want kids, if you don’t feel called to have kids, to throw your full faith and trust in God and remain prayerfully open to life, you shouldn’t get married and you shouldn’t have sex. If you are already married and something happens where pregnancy or more children becomes a grave danger or problem, you should STILL be prayerfully open to life even while recognizing that you can’t be right now. (for instance, after a c-section it’s nice for our marriage to not have to abstain for the 6 months it would be dangerous to conceive again).

In short, NFP is not, and should not be promoted as, a “contraception alternative” but a tool for married couples who are fundamentally open to life to use with prayer and discernment.

sorry this is long.

elizabethe
    The “grave reasons” itself is an overzealous translation of the Latin.  The catechism uses “just reasons” and Humanae Vitae uses “well- grounded” in the Vatican translation:

  ” If therefore there are well-grounded reasons for spacing births, arising from the physical or psychological condition of husband or wife, or from external circumstances, the Church teaches that married people may then take advantage of the natural cycles immanent in the reproductive system and engage in marital intercourse only during those times that are infertile, thus controlling birth in a way which does not in the least offend the moral principles which We have just explained. (20)”. Pope Paul VI

Yes I attend to Father Jonathan’s church and I feel absoultely blessed that I have such a spiritual parish and really great priests that are not afraid to speak the truth.  I cannot lose hope after wittnessing that!

Let’s all be scientists here:  If contracepted sex was so great, we wouldn’t have that divorce rate.  And remember, if he/she can justify selfish sex with *you*, it’s going to eventually become boooooring, and he/she might either get turned off on sex in general (who wants to feel used?), or look *elsewhere* for even cheaper thrills.  Does your marriage have the symptoms? Choose real lovemaking. No barriers. It’s heavenly.

Prof Janet Smith has a column citing this column and explaining why priests don’t preach on contraception (or any other moral issue), why they should, and how parishioners can encourage them to do so.  Check it out: http://www.catholicvote.org/discuss/index.php?p=26987

You know what you call a woman who uses natural family planning? “Mother!” ;)  All joking aside, I stand on the side of open access to healthcare for all.  The healthcare system is so completely busted in America. To add caveats and exemptions based on moral reasons, for employers who cover millions of workers, just makes the problem worse. 

I keep seeing the analogy offered of, “What if the employer was a Jehova’s Witness and was against blood transfusions, would his employees have to do without those in their health plans, too?” Contraceptive pills are used for more than just preventing babies. I’ve taken them for years to control very painful reoccuring ovarian cysts, and it’s the only way I’ve found relief from nauseating pain. To shame me as a loose woman in any way for this is ludicrous. Too much hyperbole in this thread! And I notice only pro-Church-stance opinions are being allowed on by moderators, which kind of defeats the purpose of this online dialogue.

NFP_Disaster:

I can relate to your wife on so many levels—two unplanned pregnancies, less than two years apart, and complete psychological fear of sex from practicing NFP.  I, too have lost confidence in the Church over this issue.  It’s apparently nothing new, but was happening before Humanae Vitae was propagated.  I found this article, just this morning:

http://womenintheology.org/2012/02/23/women-speak-about-natural-family-planning-patty-crowleys-speech-to-the-papal-birth-control-commission-2/

I’m complete baffled as to why the pope would ignore the testimony of married women and the suggestions of the majority of bishops on this issue.

“I’m complete baffled as to why the pope would ignore the testimony of
married women and the suggestions of the majority of bishops on this issue.”

Well, because the Church’s stance isn’t based on effectiveness or convenience or any of that.  Sex, as a matter of general principle, makes babies.  We don’t get to mess with that.  None of this theology is based on everyday practicality.

We should get our Catholic employers to pay for a little backpack that provides a constant morphine drip into our veins.  In my experience, suffering sucks.  The state should do something about that.  It should regulate it’s ignorant populace.  Babies terrify me.  They wake you up, ruin the ambiance at restaurants and generally get in the way of quality time.  Shame on those uncouth breeders, they should be fined.  Come to think of it,the whole idea of marriage is outdated and just a haven for those polluting breeders.  Who invented such boring repression? I need variety to get off (a new body AT LEAST biweekly…Thank goodness for Craigslist!). As an omnisexual,I’m enlightened and don’t discriminate against any creature. I’m forming our own local chapter of NAMBLA (YOU call it molestation, I call it LOVE). We are currently signing petitions against oppressive parental consent laws, because we care about the sexual rights of minors. Our other petition is for growing embryos in surrogates so we can harvest their organs for when our hard-living bodies give out. How dare people call them human beings.  Everyone knows that worth must be determined by individuals, in the privacy of their own conscience.  My God “Ed” says it’s okay. Who the heck are these people to impose their Judeo Christian CROSS and morals on everyone else? What a bummer of a religion. Get up to date you archaic, sexist, men in dresses!  Your religion is so not fun.  Frankly, it is offensive.  It should be prosecuted and fined for hate crimes.

I feel so sorry for you.  Your heart is so closed to the real intimacy of love and sex.  I will pray for you.

I would give anything to hear this addressed from the pulpit at my parish.  There have only been crickets so far on the entire issue, and I’m really struggling with disappointment in my priests and diocese.

Theresa:  no one is suggesting that you are a loose woman for using the Pill for medical purposes.  And there are several comments here that oppose the church’s teachings on artificial contraception.  There’s no censorship going on here.

To whoever said that the teachings on contraception are a man-made law:  wrong.  There is a Biblical basis for the church’s teachings on sexuality as a whole, of which contraception is one component.  You might not agree with the interpretation, but it wasn’t something that men created out of thin air because they wanted to lay a heavy burden on people.

To whoever said that NFP is only effective in avoid pregnancy for a small percentage of people who have very regular cycles:  this is not accurate.  It is certainly more effective for people with regular cycles, and no it is not foolproof, particularly for those who have irregular cycles.  But that doesn’t mean that it is only effective for a small minority of people.  If some NFP practitioners go overboard in making it sound easy and exaggerating its effectiveness, you are going to the complete opposite extreme.  The truth is somewhere in the middle.

NFP_Disaster:  did you and your wife have a Catholic wedding?  My understanding is that a pretty standard part of the Catholic wedding mass is to promise to welcome children.  You and your wife appear to view children as a burden, something you would rather not have (which is particularly sad since your children are already here), and using the perfectly planned only child as the ideal does not mesh with being open to life and open to God’s will.  I’m a planner, and I understand wanting to have control over one’s own life.  But the truth is that not everything in life can be planned, and sometimes we have to surrender that control to God.

Theresa:  no one is suggesting that you are a loose woman for using the Pill for medical purposes.  And there are several comments here that oppose the church’s teachings on artificial contraception.  There’s no censorship going on here.

NFP_Disaster:  did you and your wife have a Catholic wedding?  My understanding is that a pretty standard part of the Catholic wedding mass is to promise to welcome children.  You and your wife appear to view children as a burden, something you would rather not have (which is particularly sad since your children are already here), and using the perfectly planned only child as the ideal does not mesh with being open to life and open to God’s will.  I’m a planner, and I understand wanting to have control over one’s own life.  But the truth is that not everything in life can be planned, and sometimes we have to surrender that control to God.

To whoever said that NFP is only effective in avoid pregnancy for a small percentage of people who have very regular cycles:  this is not accurate.  It is certainly more effective for people with regular cycles, and no it is not foolproof, particularly for those who have irregular cycles.  But that doesn’t mean that it is only effective for a small minority of people.  If some NFP practitioners go overboard in making it sound easy and exaggerating its effectiveness, you are going to the complete opposite extreme.  The truth is somewhere in the middle.

To whoever said that the teachings on contraception are a man-made law:  wrong.  There is a Biblical basis for the church’s teachings on sexuality as a whole, of which contraception is one component.  You might not agree with the interpretation, but it wasn’t something that men created out of thin air because they wanted to lay a heavy burden on people.

Scripture may well be “inspired” by the divine, but make no mistake about it - It was man-made. Human hands penned it, edited it, debated it, reshaped it, translated it (and re-translated it), etc.

I’m not taking a stance on the divine nature of scripture, I just feel the need to point out sometimes that humans had a huge hand in its crafting and presentation.  To deny that is to wear blinders to the evolving history of religion in general, worldwide.

Where ever your faith may lie, take the FULL picture into consideration. The men who wrote down the words were flawed humans, like the rest of us, with their own biases and preferences for how things should be done. Take everything you read with a grain of salt, and with that in mind. Peace.

I will certainly not take scripture with a grain of salt, and I do not accept that the Catholic church’s interpretations and applications of it are man-made.  If I felt that way I wouldn’t bother being a practicing Catholic.

Sorry Mary, JK! Sometimes you just have to get to the left of the left wingers (and the “catholics” on their slippery slope) to prove to them how insane their logic is. I guess it has gotten pretty bad out there if you took it seriously.

If God itself/Himself came down to earth and handed us a series of books and had said, “Here, this is what I want, and how humanity should live” that’d be awesome and have cleared a lot of things up.

But because it was filtered through countless human hands, a little bit of healthy skepticism (even among the faithful!) is necessary, in my view. I find it foolish to place unwaivering, unquestioning belief in anything. Religion doesn’t get a pass on critical thinking, and taking all known facts into consideration.

Theresa, I don’t fault you for your skepticism, and I don’t think it’s necessarily a bad thing.  I have read the rationale behind these teachings and also the history of how they were determined.  It resonated with me, and that’s one reason why I’m Catholic.  That doesn’t mean that I agree with everything the church does, how they handle things, etc.  But I do agree with the teachings.

Becca: My own study has led me to agree quite strongly with the Church on sterilization (including hormonal “contraception” and IUDs) primarily for health reasons, but disagree on barrier methods. My wife has no use for any of the Catholic Church’s teaching.

Much of the prohibition against barrier methods is based on an ancient view of human reproduction that has been proven false. Furthermore, the Church discounts the importance of sexual intimacy to a married couple. They practically read 1 Corinthians 7:5 out of the Bible to support a teaching that has a questionable scriptural basis.

The Church is right that couples are losing something by using barrier methods, but they are wrong that doing so is inherently evil. It’s simply less good—and the couple knows it. The Church’s all-or-nothing stance on the matter is an anomaly even in Catholic thought.

Who is more open to life? The couple who abstains during the fertile period or the couple who uses a condom? The answer is common sense, yet the Church doesn’t seem to understand.

Claire: Yes, our marriage was approved by the Church. Yes, we planned on having children. No, we did not plan on having as many as possible. No, we did not plan on having them so soon or so close. No, I doubt we would have been heartbroken had we been unable to have children. Yes, we do love the children we have. Happy?

Thank you so much for this story! It’s such a relief that there are good priests out there with courage to teach the truth.  Thank God!

Becca: My own study led me to agree quite strongly with the Catholic Church on sterilization (including hormonal “contraception” and IUDs) for health reasons, but disagree on barrier methods and alternate forms of intimacy. My wife has no use for the Catholic Church at all.

Specifically, the Church’s prohibition on barrier methods is based on an incorrect ancient understanding of human reproduction. They downplay the importance of sexual intimacy in a marriage. They practically read 1 Corinthians 7:5 out of the Bible to support a teaching with questionable scriptural support. No, it’s not as good with a barrier, but that doesn’t make it intrinsically evil. This all-or-nothing thinking is an anomaly in Catholic thought.

It’s not a question about being happy.  And no one here is implying that you should have as many as possible.  But you seem really fixated on your plans.  And you seem to see two children as a burden.  Yes, I find that sad, both for you and your children.

You’re putting words in my mouth, Claire. Raising children is not easy for everyone, and two children in less than two years was a difficult experience and one that neither one of us would ever do again. This doesn’t mean that we don’t love the children that we have and aren’t glad they are here. Just that neither of us is naturally very “parental”, so none of this comes easy to us.

I can understand that.  My brother was unplanned (my parents, who aren’t religious, were using two forms of barrier methods when he was conceived).  I was 15 months old when he was born, and had just started taking steps, but certainly was not walking competently.  My mother has acknowledged that the first year was very hard.  Yet they are still glad it happened, because now that my brother is here they can’t imagine life without him.  They are pro-abortion, pro birth control, and planners.  But even they were able to ultimately relinquish the control they had over this experience.  They were not very good parents in general, but I’m thankful that in this aspect they rose to the occasion and were able to ultimately see this unplanned pregnancy as a positive thing.  Anyway, I didn’t mean to minimize the stress of your situation, and I’m glad to hear you say that you’re glad your children are here.  I didn’t get that from some of your previous posts, and I hope that as time goes by, that overshadows the stress of the situation.

For anybody who is interested, please also take a look at “Ecological Breastfeeding” (no supplementing, no bottles, no pacifiers, two night feedings)which is the way women nursed for millenia.  I spaced my children naturally this way for 25 years. The closest are two-and-a-half years apart, and I never used real NFP,(charts and thermometers). I just avoided the center of my cycle for a few days when we didn’t feel ready to conceive again.  Learning NFP is good for knowing how to be on the lookout for fertility signs, and for knowing when your body signals ovulation.  Even if I wasn’t Catholic, I would NEVER poison my body with contraceptives, and condoms,without even considering the message it sends, are about as appealing as eating with saran wrap lining the mouth.  Ugh.

It seems to me that it is NOT wrong to take a technology-oriented approach towards easing a couple’s ability to plan for and time the conceiving of children, provided that the technology…

- Is intended to optimize the functioning of what is good and normative in the design of the human body, not destroy or disable a function; and,

- Is intended to honor the intrinsic dignity and beauty of every human soul that ever is or will be, and not treat that soul’s very existence as an undesired mistake.

In short, the technology would have to function in support of that which is good, instead of assuming that that which is good, is evil or of no value.

Imagine: What if the development of artificial contraceptives had been avoided precisely for these reasons, and the scientists involved in developing them had instead developed technology which fulfilled the above two requirements?

I suspect what we’d have by now, or would have in a couple of years from now, would be an inexpensive implant which could wirelessly communicate with a tiny “docking station” connectible to any computer, pad computer, or smartphone.

This implant would be implanted on an outpatient basis, and would securely provide the docking station a once-a-day data burst containing the previous 24 hours’ hormone levels, internal temperature…I’m not sure there’s a way to check mucus with an implant but some other measurement would perhaps be a suitable proxy.

Anyhow, the gist would be this: The device would give a woman a 5-day countdown to ovulation, a notification of ovulation when it happened, and a notification when the egg had been reabsorbed, with a near-perfect accuracy.

As a result, charting and manual temperature checking at a particular time of day would cease to be a major workload requiring a consistent schedule, and cease to require an educational process. There’d “be an app for that.”

I can also imagine an augmented implant which would carefully regulate hormones to get a woman’s body on to a more regular and predictable cycle, if it wasn’t already…all without removing the fertile part of the cycle.

The result, in either case, would be that Catholic couples would lose all reason for complaining about NFP’s lack of usability. It would regularly work “as advertized” by its most-rosy descriptions. And the more waffle-prone bishops and priests would lose the excuse of “needing to be pastoral” when discussing the teaching.

The only remaining difficulty, of course, would be that the wife would typically be most interested in lovemaking during the fertile part of the cycle. I don’t suppose that’s soluble. If there were a way to make that happen in other parts of the cycle, aphrodisiacs would already be on the market. (But if anyone ever does invent something that’ll rev the mood a bit more in the post-ovulation phase, well…!)

Praise God and OO-RAH!  Here’s a link to another faithful homily on the subject.  Biretta tip to Leila at littlecatholicbubble.blogspot.com who writes:  “...listen to my own Fr. Oliver Vietor’s homily of two Sundays ago, here [http://staphx.org/podcasts/contraception.mp3]. For those inclined to shout “White male celibate!” right about now, keep in mind that Fr. Vietor, a former Episcopalian minister, has a wife and six children.”

The sad thing is that most don’t even know that:

a) all non-barrier contraceptives are abortifacient
http://www.hli.org/index.php/abortifacients

b) natural family planning without grave causes is a grave sin.

c) contraception, as the article pointed out, leads not only to abortion but to divorce.
http://intolerant-tolerants.blogspot.com/2011/12/safe-sex-100-effective-contraception.html

Blessings in JMJ
F.NAZAR at gmail.com

I’m going to quote Pope Benedict the charitable blogger from above:

The “grave reasons” itself is an overzealous translation of the Latin.  The catechism uses “just reasons” and Humanae Vitae uses “well- grounded” in the Vatican translation:

  ” If therefore there are well-grounded reasons for spacing births, arising from the physical or psychological condition of husband or wife, or from external circumstances, the Church teaches that married people may then take advantage of the natural cycles immanent in the reproductive system and engage in marital intercourse only during those times that are infertile, thus controlling birth in a way which does not in the least offend the moral principles which We have just explained. (20)”. Pope Paul VI

Good holy priests are seriously needed, today as ever.

Elizabethe, thanks for your comment. I am so tired of well-meaning Catholics treating NFP like Church-approved contraception. It is indeed an acceptable way to postpone pregnancies for grave reasons, but it is NOT something that every couple must practice nonstop. I do not think God ever meant for us all to be charting and watching for signs every single month. What ever happened to true openness to life, trust in God’s will and providence, and prudence and self-sacrifice when needed?

IT WOULD HAVE HELPED TO INCLUDE THE APPLAUSE AT THE END OF THE HOMILY.  INDEED THE OBAMA MANDATE IS AN OPPORTUNITY FOR PREACHERS TO EXPLAIN THE EVIL OF CONTRACEPTION AND THE POSITIVE ASPECTS OF HUMANAE VITAE.  THIS IS AN UNPOPULAR TOPIC WHICH EXPLAINS WHY PRIESTS AVOID SPEAKING ON IT. I BELIEVE THE APPLAUSE WAS SPONTANEOUS AND I AM MUCH HEARTED BY IT.  IT WAS A TOPIC OUR PEOPLE WANTED TO HEAR.

I am also a St. Thomas the Apostle parishioner in the Diocese of Phoenix…  May I reiterate that all should copy/past this link and listen to another powerhouse homily:

http://staphx.org/podcasts/contraception.mp3

Now knowing of at least two priests who have fearlessly tackled this teaching subject with love, Jennifer Fulwiler is very much right:  now is the time.  We ARE ready for that homily on contraception, and I believe it could be happening more than we know.
What a great time to be Catholic!!

Our sweet priest who retired a year ago at the age of 83 was the tops.  He spoke of contraception, abortion, homosexuality, bad Catholic universities, et al.  Our parish was well informed.  Now we are barely hanging on with his replacement who is the exact opposite.

Please pray for me as I will be preaching on contraception this weekend (2/25-2/26).  Thanks for affirming my intuition that this sermon was needed at this time.

NFP Disaster,

NFP is a sacrifice that requires self control. Many other areas of life require self control and depriving ourselves of something for the sake of God. Take for instance alcohol, it is good in the right context, but we must be responsible and practice self control. Sex between a husband and wife is an even greater good, yet we must also practice self control in this area. By sterilizing women, or in some way taking away the life-giving part of sex, then you make it easy to use one another for your own sexual desires with no consequences… Is that what you want?  I know you love your wife and your intention is not to use her, but I challenge you to dig deeper, and put aside the world’s misconstrued views on contraception so we can have sex with someone whenever we want. Have you and your wife read about JPII’s Theology of the Body? I suggest reading about this.

If people want to use contraceptives, the church has no right to not allow them to do so. We are a secular nation according to the constitution, deal with it. Giving freedom to others doesn’t take away freedoms from you.

We are not a secular nation see www.mej.com www.biblegateway.com and www.vatican.va
Our Lady Blessed Mother Mary has come again through messangers and prophets to say God is the foundation of the world. Take him out and you will reap what you sow.
Our Lord Jesus is the cornerstone of life and society. Deal with that its pretty heavy but our faith is alive.

Peace be with you!

JMJ

To Claire, in response to ” Ideally, the primary goal of the martial act should be unity between the husband and wife, with pleasure as a secondary benefit.”  True the purpose is unitive, but the pleasure of sex is NOT “a secondary benefit”.  It is a MORAL GOOD because it is A UNION OF PERSONS.  Please do some reading on Theology of the Body.

Therese, I didn’t say the pleasure wasn’t a moral good.  I said that pleasure itself shouldn’t be the goal.  If the pleasure is the goal, particularly when it’s outside the context of the martial union, then it becomes immoral.  I have already done ample reading on Theology of the Body, and I don’t appreciate your condescending tone.

TM, nobody is saying that the church is trying to keep secular people from using contraceptives.  What you do is your business; just don’t ask us to pay for it.

The Church isn’t forcing anyone to avoid using contraceptives.  It has a teaching against contraception, and it doesn’t provide insurance coverage for them.

Claire, You say there is a Biblical basis for the churches teaches on contraception, can you share it?  I’m not Catholic, so non on this applies to me, but I’m interested in the scripture.  You seemed very well informed and knowledgeable.  Thanks.

Social consequences of contraception:
http://intolerant-tolerants.blogspot.com/2012/02/social-consequences-of-contraception.html

Riddle me this, people who support the Churches stance:

Are these same religious institutions still covering the following services/prescriptions:

-Viagra/Cialis/Erectile Dysfunction drugs
-Vasectomies

If the answer is yes, then it seems pretty darn obvious to me that this is only being discussed right now nationally because it deals with FEMALE contraceptives. Seems when ever it’s a question about women, the mostly patriarchal leadership of The Church sides against us. No one seems to care about that larger issue, though. But I certainly do.

No, Catholic institutions do not cover vasectomies, because vastectomies are contraception, and contraception is against Church teaching. I have no idea whether they cover erectile dysfunction drugs.  Probably some do and some don’t.  From the Church’s standpoint, there is nothing immoral about these drugs if they are used to promote martial relations, and while they might be for men, I’m sure the wives of men who have erectile dysfunction benefit from them as well.  This is not being discussed because of any anti-women motives.  It is being discussed because the Church teaches against contraceptives, particularly abortifacient contraceptives, and to force Catholic institutions to cover these products is a violation of religious freedom.

If these rules only applied to Catholics, I would have zero beef with it.  It’s the millions of non-Catholic employees covered under these health plans that will have their access limited or suppressed that are being screwed over here.

It seems like cognitive dissonance to be both against contraception and against abortion. They are connected, correlated, and using the former greatly leads to less of the latter. Read some peer reviewed, scientific sources on the topic of use of contraceptives and how that correlates to a marked reduction in abortion rates. Not pandering, agenda-driver, religious sources that are only out to sway you to their side.

If your source says the opposite, then it’s probably a pro-life site with a political agenda, and doesn’t care about the hard facts and numbers going on in real life.

Non-Catholics aren’t being forced to work for Catholic institutions.  That is their choice, and it is not their employers’ job to pay for products that are against their beliefs.  As far as numbers and statistics, it is impossible to know how many babies have been killed by abortifacient contraceptives.  But even one is one too many.

There was a time when the priests actually gave homilies such as this and then about the time when the quitar masses came into vogue they stopped.  It seemed the Church was afraid the parishioners would reject hard truths and leave the Church.  Well, a lot of people did leave the Church mostly because it began to lose discipline and structure.  There’s nothing to lose at this point for more priests to crawl out from under the pews and address contemporary problems with real doctrine and dogma.  And someone please explain how, when they take these polls in the press, they only seem to find non-practicing Catholics.  At least, that’s who they quote.

Theresa, which real life numbers were you referring to? You seriously think contraception reduces abortion? Margaret Sanger said that contraception would 1.reduce abortion 2. increase sexual satisfaction 3.reduce divorce 4. reduce child abuse…We’ve had a generation to “try it out”.  It shocks me that people can still spout that old party line with a straight face.

I am not a member of the Catholic church, but this article was very eye opening and I plan to share it.  I think that this should be much more widely published.  It will help so many people understand the church’s stance.  I do take contraceptives for health reasons, and it’s my understanding that that is acceptable.  However, forcing the Catholic church to provide free contraception, to me, is like forcing a Hindu person to eat beef.  It goes against their [your] beliefs.  We are supposed to be a nation that separates Church and State, and by forcing someone to provide a service that they don’t believe in, the government isn’t adhering to this policy.

This morning I heard the truth about the false 98% of Catholics using contraception claim. In the “study” they did NOT inclued Catholics who were currently pregnant, NOR Catholics who were trying to get pregnant, NOR women who were indifferent to getting pregnant!!!!! NOR Catholics who hadn’t had sex in the past 3 months, which would include virgins, and the good Catholics who are choosing to not fornicate!! Well, those are the women who wouldn’t be using the pill! They only included women who currently were trying not to get pregnant and are sexually active, which would be those Catholics who use the pill! What a ridiculous, rigged “statistic”!

It’s obvious that some who have commented have no idea what the
Catholic teaches about the subject. We’re beginning to see the bigotry stored in some hearts.

Allie, thank you for your support of religious freedom.  I had read a similar analogy a couple of weeks ago about a hypothetical mandate for a Jewish deli to start selling pork products.  Your Hindu analogy reminded me of that.

Artificial contraception enables rampant promiscuity, which in turn causes more risky activity.  That in turn causes more divorce because even married people can be promiscuous.  That means more broken families, where Mass atetendance for the children will take a back seat to the divorce proceedings and, of course, finding a new spouse. The more you have sex, the greater the chance of a pregnancy because no birth control is 100% effective.  Something like 54% of women seeking abortion are on birth control.  If the woman does have an unexpected and unwanted preganancy the answer is: abortion.  This is all connected and it doesn’t take a rocket scientist to figure it out.  It does however require clergy to be brave and deliver this message.

If we want contraception use to go down, we have to work harder to have a spiritually healthy society.  We can start with effective and warm support of Catholic families as they raise their children.  Catholic churches ought to develop ministries for family outreach, babysitting help (it is REALLY hard to get a sitter for your 4, 5, or 6 children under 10.) and etc.  The posted above who writes about how hard it is to have 2 children in two years should not be lectured; he and his wife were obviously in need of help that they did not know how to get.  Why shouldn’t every Catholic be able to call his or her church and say, “I need help!” and have the staff know how to get it for them.  We are great at giving stuff to the poor but have become less great at supporting the families in our communities as they struggle.  This includes teaching NFP methods that are varied—no method is right for everyone—and NOT LYING about them, not pretending that it doesn’t involve struggle and hardship to be “open to life” all the time. Focusing on NFP as birth control instead of as a spiritual discipline is a complete mistake, I think.

If we can give more support, and better education, to the families as they raise children, then their children will grow up with more tools to enter the world and relationships with a healthy spiritual life, and to marry others who have that.  This is not to say we will produce perfect people, but that the more we are available to each other and *acknowledge* that life is incredibly difficult, for some people more than others, the better chance we have of the message on contraception taking root in the hearts of the whole Church.

Very encouraging I am so happy to have read this. I’m a 28 year old that gave up contraception at age 20. The fact I gave it up was a huge miracle that I walked blindly after a priest told me to give up contraceptions or I couldn’t be absolved of my sins after a serious confession.  Within a couple months of fighting shock I gave up artificial contraceptions and Never looked back.  A powerful change of heart came over me and slowly grew very strong to the point that to me it seems so obvious yet I understand where everyone is coming from because I’ve been there myself.

Corita, your words resonate with me.  People used to say to me, “you have FIVE kids???”  I was living in a family compound with my own house, and my sister and mother next door.  I would modestly say, “Oh, it’s really no big deal, my sister and my mother help me”.  THEN I MOVED AWAY for over a decade.  I was SO humbled.  I had more kids, but I felt the PAIN of not having a grandma to teach the toddlers to read, pick up kids from school, order pizza on Friday night, cook Sunday dinner, my sister watching a toddler while I bring kid to doctor etc.  Yes, the American family is under stress. It is fragmented and women have been isolated from traditional support systems. Yes, the Catholic community needs to rally behind their own.  My heart goes out to all who are weary and have lost heart—I prayed for all of us at mass this evening.  @ Claire, I think you have been measured and beautiful in speaking the truth, and defending it.  Thank you.

Oh, anna lisa, I wish we were neighbors!

Re: the false “98% of Catholic women using contraception” statistic:

Yes, it is a false statistic.

But what is the real number? We don’t have the data to say. 45%? 65%?

And, what, precisely, should the “real number” represent? That’s a tricky one, too, if you think about it.

One must, for example, exclude former Protestants who, on becoming Catholic, gave up contraception. If the Guttmacher statistic was intended to say, “98% of Catholic women have used contraception ON SOME PRIOR OCCASION,” then these converts would be included…but if the purpose of the statistic is to demonstrate dissent from the Church’s teaching, then those folks obviously shouldn’t be included.

Likewise for Catholics who at some earlier point in their lives were “cafeteria Catholics” or “distant from the Church,” but who now have begun to practice their faith more seriously and as part of that practice have dropped use of contraception.

I suppose that if we’re looking for dissent from the Church among Catholic women on matters of contraception, we must find out what percentage actually dissent.

To actually dissent, they would need:

- To know that it’s wrong;
- To know how seriously the Church takes it;
- To know that the Church does not allow a conscience exception sans proper formation, that it’s not “just between them and God”;
- To still oppose the Church’s teaching actively either by (for the sexually active) using contraception, or (for those not currently sexually active) firmly planning to use contraception, or counseling others to do so.

Once we had the percentage of all Catholic women who matched those criteria, I think it would be interesting to further investigate whether they had other attributes in common, such as:

- Did they dissent on other matters (e.g. women’s ordination, gay marriage)?
- Were they ignorant of the Church’s teaching on primary doctrines (e.g. transubstantiation, infallibility both ordinary and extraordinary, the Trinity, the two natures of Christ, “how to be saved” as understood by the Church)?
- Had they ever been taught correctly on the contraception topic, or had their pastors taught them incorrectly or not at all?
- Did they attend Mass regularly?
- Did they receive Reconciliation regularly?
- Did they study Scripture or obtain other religious education regularly?
- Did they have anything like an ongoing prayer life?
- Could they express anything about their ongoing relationship with Our Lord and describe how their life lived through, with, and in Him was producing “fruit in keeping with repentance?”

My sense is that out of all Catholic women, a large minority or small majority would fall on the “dissenting” side.

But, I also get the feeling that, if you took the dissenters and evaluated their common attributes using the second group of questions, you’d find that a majority of them are “little c catholics” and not “big C Catholics,” meaning that (even apart from the topic of contraception) many of them hold views so contrary to the teaching of the Church that they’re better described as Protestants who lack the entrepreneurial zeal to go start their own church.

And, of those among the dissenters who don’t match that description, I suspect there are a large number who’re ignorant of the Church’s teaching through a failure of pastoral teaching (or wrong teaching from those assigned to teach them).

I suspect that one group would be very small indeed, probably in single-digit percentages: The group of people who are informed and orthodox in every other way, and who lead an active and devout and serious life of faith, and whose sole area of dissent is on contraception. I’m sure some exist, in a Church of more than a billion people…but proportionally their numbers are small.

2002 on Arthur Jawad donated ten million plus his property to the church Saint Joseph Basilica to the High School part of the Church located in Alameda, CA and I was suppose to move in with Arthur Jawad in 1990 and instead I was beaten up by a Alameda cop and my children was removed under chump charges. This prevented me from moving in with Arthur Jawad. My store can be found in youtub.com under cindythe

2002 on Arthur Jawad donated ten million plus his property to the church Saint Joseph Basilica to the High School part of the Church located in Alameda, CA and I was suppose to move in with Arthur Jawad in 1990 and instead I was beaten up by a Alameda cop and my children was removed under chump charges. This prevented me from moving in with Arthur Jawad. My store can be found in youtub.com under cindythemovie

Corita, you hit the nail on the head. What hurt the most was how little support the Church gave to families. My wife agrees with George Carlin: They stop caring about you once you leave the womb. Most hypocritically, how are you supposed to send your large Catholic family to parochial school when the tuition is so high? (Homeschooling is not for everyone and Catholic homeschooling is NOT the answer for a Church that stresses the importance of community.)

As for NFP, we didn’t have many choices of method. The only choices were the Catholic hospital teaching Creighton and one CCLI couple, both about an hour away. (We did live in the Baptist South.) We met with the CCLI couple once, but CCLI pushes “openness to life” to the point where we did not feel comfortable with them. Reading articles about how wonderful babies are and how “abstinence makes the heart grow fonder” when you are struggling with two in diapers and are finding abstinence only adds frustration to your marriage was not reassuring.

Homeschooling is not without a community, and public school can be conducive to raising a Catholic family.  The Catholic church is the single greatest charitable contributer worldwide, so to say that they stop caring about babies once they leave the womb is completely unfair.  Yes, our parishes could do more to foster fellowship and support.  But the church in general goes a lot to help people, particularly the underpriveleged. 

There may be some online resources for other NFP sources.  When I was trying to get pregnant and didn’t have any Napro resources nearby, there were ways of doing it long distance.

NFP_disaster, I’m sorry that your experience has been so hard for you.  The truth is that until one of your more recent posts, I had a really hard time empathizing with you, because of your attitude toward the Church.  I still struggle with it.  Two unplanned pregnancies 19 months apart is a lot.  But it’s not a tragedy, and to blame the entire Church is really extreme.

Annalisa, thank you for your kind words.

I am looking forward to Jennifer being at the ‘Behold Conference, in Peoria, IL. 
At the Lighthouse Catholic Media booth, for every bundle purchase (7 CD’s of inspiring talks from Kimbery Hahn, Mother Teresa, Matthew Kelly, among others) they will get a copy of Janet Smiths’ “Contraception, Why not?”

That s here: http://www.contraceptionwhynot.com/

Register for Behold at: http://www.contraceptionwhynot.com/

My point about parochial schools is not that they are mandatory, but that to take advantage of them, couples must limit their family size, frequently using contraception and sterilization.  Because of high per-child tuition, this option is not affordable and not available to those who are “open to life”. The parish didn’t even run a mother’s morning out program, unlike many of the Protestant churches in the area. The attitude was that we were on our own until we started paying tuition. Following Church teaching when neither the clergy nor the laity support such a lifestyle made us feel like couple of suckers.

If the Church wants people to live a lifestyle that is “open to life”, they need to support couples who do just that.

Well, I certainly can’t argue with you there.  Catholic parishes could definitely learn from Protestant parishes about how to better promote fellowship and community.

One of our associate Pastors preached on this a couple of weeks ago, too. Although, I thought he could have hit it harder, I was so excited that he “went there”, and he, too, got applause (I normally hate it when people applaud at Mass, but I enthusiatically joined in that day!).  Unfortunately, at my parish (which was also about 1000 people at Mass), it was noticably about half the congregation.  In discussing it with my younger son’s Godfather after Mass, he said “the other half are still in the “cafeteria”.  It’s a start.

Come to think of it, this particular parish was especially bad about not doing this. The priest was by-the-book and “orthodox”, but had no interest in building community, no interest in evangelism, and his “Hispanic ministry” consisted of giving directions in Spanish to another parish on the other side of town(!) This other parish was a “social justice” parish, more interested in helping the poor than its own community.

Re: the false “98% of Catholic women using contraception” statistic:

Yes, it is a false statistic.

But what is the real number? We don’t have the data to say. 45%? 65%?

And, what, precisely, should the “real number” represent? That’s a tricky one, too, if you think about it.

One must, for example, exclude former Protestants who, on becoming Catholic, gave up contraception. If the Guttmacher statistic was intended to say, “98% of Catholic women have used contraception ON SOME PRIOR OCCASION,” then these converts would be included…but if the purpose of the statistic is to demonstrate dissent from the Church’s teaching, then those folks obviously shouldn’t be included.

Likewise for Catholics who at some earlier point in their lives were “cafeteria Catholics” or “distant from the Church,” but who now have begun to practice their faith more seriously and as part of that practice have dropped use of contraception.

I suppose that if we’re looking for dissent from the Church among Catholic women on matters of contraception, we must find out what percentage actually dissent.

To actually dissent, they would need:

- To know that it’s wrong;
- To know how seriously the Church takes it;
- To know that the Church does not allow a conscience exception sans proper formation, that it’s not “just between them and God”;
- To still oppose the Church’s teaching actively either by (for the sexually active) using contraception, or (for those not currently sexually active) firmly planning to use contraception, or counseling others to do so.

...continued…

...continuing…

Once we had the percentage of all Catholic women who matched those criteria, I think it would be interesting to further investigate whether they had other attributes in common, such as:

- Did they dissent on other matters (e.g. women’s ordination, gay marriage)?
- Were they ignorant of the Church’s teaching on primary doctrines (e.g. transubstantiation, infallibility both ordinary and extraordinary, the Trinity, the two natures of Christ, “how to be saved” as understood by the Church)?
- Had they ever been taught correctly on the contraception topic, or had their pastors taught them incorrectly or not at all?
- Did they attend Mass regularly?
- Did they receive Reconciliation regularly?
- Did they study Scripture or obtain other religious education regularly?
- Did they have anything like an ongoing prayer life?
- Could they express anything about their ongoing relationship with Our Lord and describe how their life lived through, with, and in Him was producing “fruit in keeping with repentance?”

My sense is that out of all Catholic women, a large minority or small majority would fall on the “dissenting” side.

But, I also get the feeling that, if you took the dissenters and evaluated their common attributes using the second group of questions, you’d find that a majority of them are “little c catholics” and not “big C Catholics,” meaning that (even apart from the topic of contraception) many of them hold views so contrary to the teaching of the Church that they’re better described as Protestants who lack the entrepreneurial zeal to go start their own church.

And, of those among the dissenters who don’t match that description, I suspect there are a large number who’re ignorant of the Church’s teaching through a failure of pastoral teaching (or wrong teaching from those assigned to teach them).

I suspect that one group would be very small indeed, probably in single-digit percentages: The group of people who are informed and orthodox in every other way, and who lead an active and devout and serious life of faith, and whose sole area of dissent is on contraception. I’m sure some exist, in a Church of more than a billion people…but proportionally their numbers are small.

R. C., this is totally beside the point, but I just have to say how impressed I am that you were able to manage to get two lengthy comments posted!  Anytime I try to post anything that long, it gets caught up in spam Limbo.

I think you’re right that it would probably be a pretty small minority of contemporary Catholics who uphold Church teaching on contraception.  But, that doesn’t mean the teaching is wrong, and it also doesn’t mean that Catholic employers should have to pay for contraception coverage.

@ Corita :) same.

Check out this website for further information on womens cycles empowering women and their relationships to help with fertile and infertility for Natural Family Planning to be morally and happy with your marriage. http://naprotechnology.com/

NFP undisaster, you are right about the Catholic tuition dilemma.  It costs about 10k per kid in my neck of the woods.  We were eventually priced out.  I have found that public education is fine, though I miss feeling the sense of a tighter knit community. (We take our kids elsewhere for Catholic formation). Frankly, I also found that some of the dysfunctional kids that get dumped in Catholic schools by dysfunctional parents can make it tough because of the smaller class sizes (your kid can’t get away from that angry kid in therapy) Can you imagine how it might have been if all that settlement $$ for that fraction of a percentage of pedophiles had gone toward good Catholic education instead?  What a shame.  I really would have preferred to have my kids in Catholic schools.

(cont’d)(NFPDis) But here’s the thing.  My life would be bitter if I just focused on the injustices that are inevitable in a post-Eden world.  I have found that I am happier if I can stop struggling against rules that are right and true, and discern in confession my own failures.  I know Jesus understands.  He doesn’t look at the sin again.  Ever.  Those rules are not even rules either, in the sense that everything God asks of us leads to a higher state of being, and thus happiness; which as a loving Father, He deeply wants for us. That is why in all truth, TRUTH is immutable (no gray area), while personal circumstances, temptations, stresses, and pain mitigate our culpability.  God alone knows what the bottom line is for each soul.  But we won’t find bliss in the beatific vision until we have been “cured” of our fallen rebelliousness…which makes us ready for the PERFECT LOVE that awaits us for eternity in heaven.

@NFPdis, Spambot grabbed the rest of my comment…sigh.  I didn’t want to end on that negative note.

@NFPd, The George Carlin comment is unjust.  I have had so many kind priests who have jumped through hoops for my family.  I have one of them on speed dial!  (I try not to abuse him)  Most importantly, the good ones are giving their life for God, and give me Jesus in the HOLY EUCHARIST.  This is the “heart” of my day, and a joy like none other.

I wish there was more teaching about contraception, and support for married couples where I live. The practice of NFP or openness to life is a rarity in my area. As a fairly new convert, trying to understand and adhere to church teaching, I often feel lonely, overwhelmed, and somewhat resentful at the lack of support.

Although we try to practice NFP, we have immense difficulty ‘reading the signs’ while I am tandem-nursing 8-month and 21-month children. I find that there is a constant weight of anxiety, a steady fear of not being able to properly care for my children if a pregnancy should occur. This anxiety really puts a strain on me, and on our marriage. I often wonder why I do not experience the ‘peace and joy’ that should come with doing what is right.

So please, more support on these life issues!

Any talk of forbidding contraception must be followd by what to use and that is NFP. I grew up always hearing, as a Catholic, that contraception is wrong, but no one ever expalaine clearly about NFP or the thlogy behind it. And as a result my wife abd I used contrception for 10 years of our marriage untill finally I learned the truthfrom John Kippley “The ART of Natural Family Planning”

Deacon Jerry: The only Person you need to please, or worry about is the Lord.  He will take care of the rest.  JMJ

Witholding contraception places such an enormous burden on the poor. Here are the options for an impoverished married woman; either stay open to life while sinking further into poverty and fear with each consecutive child, or stop having sex at the time of the month that it feels best to you, for the rest of your life. Sounds like a recipe for a disaster of a marriage.

The church needs to be careful not to alienate and discourage the millions who desperately need the loving mercy of Christ, but are not able to live up to its idealist teachings.

Our parochial vicar preached against contraception AND sterilization a couple of weeks ago.  There was a bit of tension in the pews here, too. But as soon as he got going I began praying the prayer to St. Michael for him.

Yes, we are ready for this homily!!!!  We are more than ready. So many lost souls are at stake.

Pray for these bold and holy priests, and pray equally for the timid and lukewarm!

as an aside to @bluerose - are you practicing the Creighton Model of NFP?  It is a very objective and scientific method. If you are not, find a practitioner in your area (http://www.aafcp.org/); if you are and you are still having trouble “reading the signs” get with your practitioner pronto!  There is no reason at all to have anxiety.  I will be praying for you.

Pope Pius IX in Casti Connubii:  “Since, therefore, the conjugal act is destined primarily by nature for the begetting of children, those who in exercising it deliberately frustrate its natural power and purpose sin against nature and commit a deed which is shameful and intrinsically vicious.” The church is quite clear here, all efforts to avoid pregnancy, including NFP, are inherently sinful.
The majority here seem to prefer Humanae Vitae, where “grave concerns” became grounds to frustrate the intent of the conjugal act. Sadly, grave concerns gave way to “serious reasons” which has now become “any reason at all” to you cafeteria Catholics. Shame on you all, NFP is as sinful as artificial contraception.

Your article was well done.  There is hope to right the many, many wrongs of contra (against) ception (life).  Marriage in the Church requires a readiness that both the man and woman are open to new life—always.  As “truecatholic” wrote, only under grave concerns should NFP be used to postpone new life.  My wonderful husband and I signed up for NFP classes and began attending by our 2nd or 3rd month of marriage.  I am so grateful because we weren’t hoping to postpone but rather to conceive!  God blessed us with the birth of our first child 364 following our marriage; 13 months later (while nursing—a low percentage of women may conceive), my second child was born (these two were/are the best of friends growing up).  God ended up blessing us 4 times total.  God prepares us in our daily lives for trials we may face before us.  Abstaining when postponing, (because of grave concerns) although quite difficult, will strengthen a couple’s love that is far deeper and more of a priority to marriage than sexual intimacy.  It is a stretch to think that the husband and wife will always want and be able to be sexually intimate throughout the entire marriage.  Abstaining shows a mutual depth of love for the partner in marriage.  I personally hope that, as a result of this well written column by Jennifer, more of us will hear Truth, the Church’s teaching on marriage and the couple’s openness to children, see the Wisdom and Beauty of God’s design.

The placating homolies that avoided the contraception, abortion,divorce and remarriage, and gay agenda topics for the past 40 years have finally started to pay off. The average catholic accepts contraception at the national rate and voted for this pro-abortion president with a catholic majority. Who is to blame? The voters for sure but our priests and bishops have the greater share of responsibility. They know better and should have been preaching on these subjects continuiously. Instead, we have had to endure to dreaded social justice homolies - ad nauseum.

@truecatholic - As Bl. John Paul stated in a 1994 audience “When there is a reason not to procreate, this choice is permissible and may even be necessary.” Do you pretend to have wisdom above and beyond that of our beloved Pope John Paul? NFP is morally licit in some circumstances.
Shame on you for calling yourself a true catholic while disregarding the teaching of the Magisterium, and spreading blatant lies about the faith.

This brought me to tears. Thanks be to God!

@BlueRose - in was tongue-in-cheek, only wanted to illustrate that even the Magisterium’s moral absolutes change over time, as no doubt this silly stance on contraception will, else the church will continue to shrink and alienate rational thinkers. I’ve been called a cafeteria Catholic because I really don’t believe that God discerns a difference between carefully timing sex in order to avoid pregnancy and using a condom for the same purpose. My point is that there was a time, not long ago, where the Magisterium viewed NFP the same way. I sympathize with your anxiety and the strain this is causing you and your marriage. Do what you know in your heart to be morally acceptable and in the best interests of you and your family, resist the authorities who claim infallibilty and intimate knowledge of God’s will, and take comfort in that you are indeed a good Catholic.

Believe it or not, some of us don’t find the Church’s stance silly, and this does not make us irrational.

I agree with you Claire. I just believe that you are a vocal minority. Is it not true that the church’s morality has evolved over the centuries? I’m old enough to remember when eating meat on a Friday was cause to go to confession. Perhaps you are correct though, and the majority of those calling themselves Catholic but don’t feel that contraception is sinful (I think the 98% figure is way too high but certainly the percentage is at least 40-50%) are wrong here. Should we be shouted down as non-Catholics? Would you prefer that we leave the church?

I agree—it’s the best opportunity to preach and teach on this subject we’ve had as a Church since the 50s.  I hope everybody uses it wisely.

I’d recently had occasion to look up a fair amount of information on NFP.  I thought it might be useful here:

http://attheturnofthetide.blogspot.com/2012/02/natural-family-planning-effective-and.html

in confession 10 years ago, I told a visiting priest I was struggling with contraception. I had two children and I didn’t want anymore.  He gently told me to pray to be open to life. I have breath-takingly beautiful twin 8 year old boys now, and I often thank God for giving me that priest that day.

I thought this was brilliant.  Not one priest that I have ever heard as spoken like this.  They mention abortion but not contraception, as though it’s a no go area.
Great stuff!

After talking to my wife, she let me know why she thought NFP was a disaster:

1. She could not make heads or tails of her symptoms of fertility. She said she was mostly guessing. The professionally trained Creighton counselor was no help. This was especially frustrating because she has a science background and understood the theory perfectly. She just could not put it into practice.
2. She hated NFP and only tracked because of problems with hormonal contraception. She hated all the work that went into it and the abstinence.
3. She had no problem with pregnancy, but found babyhood traumatic due to sleep deprivation, frequent loud screaming (she has sensitive hearing), and social isolation (she could not leave the children for more than a short period while breastfeeding).
4. She really enjoys our now school age daughters, but has no desire to go back to babyhood.
5. She never agreed with the Catholic Church on contraception/openness to life (she was raised Protestant), joined because she liked it better than what she grew up with, and left when she found out that this teaching was so important. She is angry because this particular teaching caused her so many problems and our local Church community was of little help.

I’m not quite sure what to do when NFP doesn’t work and you don’t handle babies very well. At any rate, it seems like our case is an unusual one.

I doubt that it’s unusual.  Some people are very fertile and have cycles that are hard to monitor, which can make it hard to implement.  And the lack of support is fairly common, depending on the region.  I had the opposite problem, infertility, and the lack of support was pathetic.  There is so much more support for post-abortive women then for couples struggling with infertility.  (And, when I attempted to start a support group myself, I was rebuffed by my liberal diocese!)  It’s easy to see why Catholics with infertility are tempted to go to mainstream infertility groups and be tempted to use IVF.  You’re right that more support would definitely help to encourage faithfulness to these teachings.

@NFP_D,  I spent the better part of the last week- when not attending to sick kids—talking with a very hostile crowd about the Church and contraception.  It helped me to formulate some more thoughts on the subject.
*
What I think we are looking at is the potential for a revolution in Catholic culture.  It seems to me that people come to the Church today with the world’s standards of self-fulfillment; I know that even with my Catholic upbringing I have certainly had them.  Using NFP happily is a lifestyle that includes the spiritual life, and .  I think it is a tremendous struggle for some people; not to say that we can judge the spiritual needs and weaknesses of those who struggle with NFP as any greater than other people who *don’t*, because our spiritual lives must always include our own unique crosses, which are incomparable to others’.
*
So how can we sell the spiritual life that goes with NFP?  We have to build a stronger, more vibrant, more *honest* Catholic culture…and the laity is going to have to get down in the trenches and do it, too.  We can’t leave it only up to the few brave priests willing to speak out about it, and those Catholic bishops on the news.  *WE* have to put our own money where our mouth is:  Get involved with building up parish community life esp. when we are single and again when we have older children, to be open to the young couples with children (like those desperate-looking mothers wrangling four little ones in the back pew at Mass) and be absolutely sober and open about the suffering that marriage and parenting do involve.
*
I think the narrative of happy, self-pleasing parenthood is finally petering out (Thank G-d) and we can get back to seeing families as work again, and embrace it, and thus help each other better.  True joy is only possible when we experience true suffering, on its own terms.

NFP disaster:
I would point to your wife’s points #2 and #5.
Let’s start with #5: If she NEVER agreed with the Church’s teaching then OF COURSE she hates tracking her symptoms (#2).
It is not that NFP doesn’t work, it is that her heart was NEVER in it in the first place.
Thank you for finally being honest about NFP.  If your wife thinks she should be allowed to drug/shrink-wrap/sterilize your sex life, then of course she resents the Church and it’s teachings.
That is the problem, not NFP.

@Deb, and others doing this:  I fail to see how criticizing the spiritual life of another person will help that person in any way with said life, especially after they have left the Church.  It might make matters worse if we act in such a way as to prove the thesis that Catholicism is full of nanny-ish judgmental people obsessed with the sex lives of others.

Someone asked me to reference the Biblical basis for Church teaching on contraception (I can’t find the comment, so I can’t address you by name, sorry!).  Yes, I will be happy to do that for you, but I have to ask you to hang in there for a couple of days.  I have to work 3-11 tonight and tomorrow night, and take care of my son when I’m home.  If you can hang in there till Wednesday or Thursday, I will locate it for you (I have to consult the Catechism and the coinciding scriptural references).  Sorry that I can’t get to this today.

@Deb: The Catholic Church teaches that contraception is wrong for everyone, not just Catholics.
.
Furthermore, the Church’s teachings are supposed to be a blessing to the faithful, not a burden to be endured. (See Matthew 11:28-30)
.
The “holier than thou” attitude that many NFP advocates have doesn’t win people over. Even the current Pope seems to acknowledge that hard cases exist, (See http://douthat.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/11/23/condoms-catholicism-and-casuistry/ ) yet some NFP advocates offer couples who struggle a choice between complete celibacy and repeated unplanned pregnancies.
.
Finally, the “turf wars” between different methods doesn’t help couples who are struggling to understand their fertility. Couples are not being taught all symptoms of fertility because this may “confuse” them.

NFP disaster:
This is not about “Holier than thou”. It is about Truth.  The truth of the nature and purpose of male and female sexuality.  To use condoms, sterilization, or any other means of artificial birth regulation (even within marriage) is to distort the two-fold nature and purpose of the God given gift of sexual intercourse- unitive and procreative. This does not mean every sexual act must lead to the creation of new human life, but that it must be ordered as such *per se*.  Read the catechism.  This is why NFP is licit.
Now, to your NFP disaster.  I argue that your wife’s attitude against the Church’s teachings make her UNWILLING to truly practice NFP.  This quote from you: “She hated all the work that went into it and the abstinence.” says it all. If she is thoroughly unconvinced of the truth about NFP, then OF COURSE she hates the work and the abstinance.  One can only face the abstinance when one is convicted that what they are doing is true.  One can only be willing to make heads or tales of charts and chase down a teacher who can help when one is convicted that what they are doing is truth.  That is what I want you to admit the real problem is.

Claire will only be able to find the account of Onan but it is not about coitus interruptus nor about the levirate obligation to have children in your brother’s name.  Neither act is punished greatly in the Mosaic law later.  Neither act.  God kills in scripture intimately for one reason: sacrilege.  Thus God killed Uzzah for touching the ark; Achan for stealing gold dedicated to God; God killed the 72 descendants of Jeconiah for not greeting the ark; killed Ananias and Sapphira for lying to the Holy Spirit; killed Herod in Acts 12 not for executing James but for accepting the crowd calling him “god”.
Acts 12 is screaming to you that God only intimately kills for sacrilege otherwise God would have killed Herod for executing James.  David’s son? Uriah was sacred to God because he refused to go home until the ark had a home.
He acted the opposite of the 72 descendants of Jeconiah.
    No one is noticing that Christ had to come from the House of Judah which was Judah and his three sons…Er, Onan, Shelah.  Unless that House of Judah procreated, Christ would not have come through the destined house.  Tamar sinned
with Judah at the last minute so to speak…and that produced Perez the ancestor of Christ.  Neither Tamar nor Judah were
killed by God for their sexual sins of Incest and fornication respectively.
    Whatever the final verdict is on contraception, Onan is about sacrilege not sex…otherwise God would also have killed Judah and Tamar in the very same story.  God had to kill Onan for another reason: once He did, Tamar could move on to Shelah who however was afraid of Tamar by then…since both Er and Onan died from their involvement with her.  Had Onan used NFP to avoid all procreation, God would still have killed him because in either case, Onan was risking Christ not coming from the House of Judah (Rev.5:5).

Interesting thinking that someone may want to know the Church’s Biblical basis on contraception.  Let’s step back 100 years…what method of contraception was being used?  How about 150 years?  The Church’s teaching is about love and life, about bonding and babies.  The Church’s teaching may be difficult for some who decide they choose when and when not to be open to life.  Up to 150 years ago (probably no more), contra(against)ception(life) was nonexistant and just because the sexual revolution has convinced many (who may learn the shallowness of it) that marriage isn’t necessary for an active sexual life, they then said contraception is normal.  You see, this is not Truth.  From the beginning, God created them, male and female…God blessed them saying “Be fertile and multiply”...God is our Creator, all of us.  We cooperate with His design, His plan.  Free will is God’s gift to each of us!  Thanks be to God!  In John 6:60 says “...This saying is hard, who can accept it?...As a result of this, many (of) His disciples returned to their former way of life and no longer accompanied Him…Jesus then said to the Twelve, “Do you also want to leave?”  The Words of Eternal Life…so, with free will, we choose…smoking?  or non-smoking?

@Corita, “people come to the Church, with the WORLD’S standards of self fulfillment…”  Yes, yes, yes.  Thank you.  We are all very much a *work in progress*...@NFPd, I also married someone with a VERY different non Catholic upbringing.  This has caused us to struggle on many levels.  But I can see that when we have struggled the hardest to *live up* to those lofty ideals of the Church, we have reaped the most, though not necessarily with a sense of *physical* well being in the moment.  We have failed MISERABLY at times (when an insidious form of indifference cooled *love*), but I am a firm believer that God can draw greatness out of failure, and from brokenness, when our pride is at it’s lowest ebb, He can form us the best if we trust in Him, and ask Him with docility to lead us.  I too struggled painfully with the sudden, and devastating loss of *self* that came with mothering my first two babies, I was *becoming a NEW creation*, and while painful, I’m so glad I struggled out of that old skin.  I am sure my transformation is far from complete.  I too have had to struggle with “unplanned pregnancy” (I jokingly sing that Sharyl Crow song “You’re my favorite mistake” to a few of them lol, and then I am devastated that had I not been “open”, as the Church teaches, I would have surely screened them out..) Yes, we all have our own set of unique circumstances, we don’t walk in the shoes of our brother.  We should NEVER judge another.  One thing *is* the same for every human being:  God has His loving gaze fixed upon us.  He is calling, calling, calling.  He is the most “discreet” of lovers, the most tender.  He does not compel with the force of guilt.  That is our own invention (and a favorite tool of the infernal one).  He doesn’t have unrealistic expectations.  He doesn’t smite us down when we fail against His high ideal.  He would rather nurse our self inflicted wounds, gently urging us on to try to walk in a new way, that requires a different kind of vision, that requires that we become new creatures. He is forever drawing *each one of us* on our unique stretch of the road, to a higher *communion with Him*. He is patience incarnate.  And *one last thing*  Yes, we are all connected.  My selfishness affects you and yours affects me.  There IS a communion of the Saints.  Now that I’m a bit older, I realize that those sudden flashes of light, that have illuminated my conscience at unique and critical points in my life, may very well have been won, by the self renunciation offered with the cross, by my neighbor in the next pew, or maybe even that old woman, tending her fire in Africa.  Our confessed sins will never be remembered, but *We will see that whole MAJESTIC web of graces we won for each other*, when we go back to God.  God Bless you, your wife, and daughters.

@Deb:  Then the Catholic Church should say this is a teaching for Catholics, not for everyone. Not everyone agrees with their theology. At least you are honest about this.

NFP disaster
All I said was the Church stands with truth.  If you don’t want to believe the Church’s teaching on human sexuality is truth, then, no, you need not follow their rules.  But that does not make it any less the truth. 
**You came on this sight basically trashing NFP.  There was a poster by the name of Lauren who REPEATEDLY mentioned chasing down an NFP teaching couple to help you.  You ignored this, instead you continue to rail on NFP.
**Now it is time for you to be honest.  Neither you nor your wife is convicted that what the Church teaches with regards to human sexuality and NFP is true and are (were) therefore not convicted when practicing it.  It wasn’t an NFP failure, but a failure of conviction.  You admitted this much when you posted all the reasons “your wife” hated NFP.

“Up to 150 years ago (probably no more), contra(against)ception(life) was nonexistant “

Mariann Gonzalez, do you realize that birth control has been around since ancient Egypt?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Birth_control#Early_history

Sorry but wikipedia isn’t a reliable source.  I read in great detail all that they said…which was quite circular.  It wasn’t until the 20th century that widespread problems occurred with creatures trying to stop creation by the Creator.  What is so funny about it is they really trump it up to be a positive thing!  (i.e. they refere to family planning and birth control…oxymoron since that’s like saying car planning but not planning to buy a car?)  Is this source reliable in your eyes?  Seek Truth.  I, many years ago, fell for those lies.  Has anyone ever seen a feminist who was truly happy?  They are so angry, and they want all women to be just as angry.  They are missing “LIFE!”  So many women have turned from that harsh anger—to find GOD: Father, Son and Spirit!—to know and be greatful for their womanhood (with a holy calling as wife and mother).  To know a depth of love from their husband that is an image of Christ’s love for His Church, laying down His life for her.  The problems of the past dealt much more with infanticide.  Our brief time in history will show that those who felt they should have whatever they want, whenever they want were self served and sadly dissatisfied and divorced; but those who sought Truth, desired Truth, and chose Truth enjoyed the fullness of life here that God Almighty desires for them!

NFP disaster, I hope you look into something like the OvaCue. Fwiw, I know many more contracepting mommas who accidentally conceived than NFP mommas. For the vast majority of NFP mommas, it was a failure of will power rather than the failure of a method. It does take time to get to know your fertility, and unfortunately most women don’t have the opportunity to learn the signs and symptoms naturally as they develop. I’d encourage you to read Love and Responsibility - it’s a beautiful book full of empathy for couples and quite enlightening.

We had a priest at our parish who was an advid supporter of NFP.He had been close to getting engaged just before answering his call to the priesthood and had already started learning all about NFP, even before he proposed. He gave several homilies about contraception, but the first one I heard, I will never forget. He basically said that men who force their wives to use the Pill were committing acts of violence on them. Wow. This parish LOVES this priest. God granted him the grace of charisma and so the flock welcomed his message with enthusiasm. So much so that when he sat down, the whole church erupted into applause. The fruits are beginning to show at our parish, as many families are expanding past the 2 or 3 children that once was the norms. In fact, I would go as far as to say the parish is expecting a little baby boom.

My husband and I were talking about NFP last night.  We have a rather difficult marriage, have from practically day one, and I would even call it horrible at times.  He is not a believer at all.  He did know about and agree to cooperate with the Catholic teachings on children but after an intense 6 years of marriage and three more kids added onto the one I brought into it, along with his complete inability to advance professionally or to find enough time to do what makes him feel whole, he is just pretty pissed at the whole thing.  He makes barely enough money to keep us barely afloat.  He comes from an alcoholic home, lost his father to liver disease over 20 years ago, and has a mother with a degenerative neuromuscular disease.  He has no other family but us, and we are the sources of his burden and the visual reminders of his feelings of personal failure.  And I?  I have done many, many things, small to large, to add to his burden and make him feel less than cared for.

So, he says, “I feel like the Catholic Church is invading my bedroom.”  I completely understand what he is saying.  What he is saying, whether he realizes it or not, is that there is no escaping the suffering and brokenness that we have brought into our relationship.  It is easy to blame the Church for not wanting us to choose the shimmering illusion of a “solution”.  But how can it?  There is no solution but the Cross.

NFP is not a solution to that reality.

**My last sentence above makes no sense because it was from another part I thought I cut out.  Sorry for bad proofreading.

I have attended weekly mass faithfully for all of my 57 years.  Since I began keeping track (when I became involved in pro-life work in 1974) I have heard exactly two sermons on this subject.  It’s almost 40 years guys.

@Corita, sending prayers of solidarity your way…Things WILL get better…

Marriann,
So you state that Wikipedia is not a reliable source since it has circular logic?  That sounds very subjective.  Have you done any research to disprove Wikipedia’s claim?  I’m sure you could comment on the entry to have it corrected.  Here is a reference from the book “Contraception and Abortion from the Ancient World to the Renaissance” referencing the “Eygptian Kahun Medical” document from 1850 BC which gives a prescription for preventing conception (Chapter 7):

http://tinyurl.com/7fuq4jt

I suppose you will dismiss this reference as being unreliable as well?

Viv.

Thanks, anna lisa.  I truly appreciate those prayers.

Viv,  We happen to have the great books, so I will check some of the references made by the author as best I can.  (Because it is better to read the full text by Aristotle than to let someone unknown tell you what he wrote.  Luckily, we know people also very able to translate Greek.)  Until I have checked further, I cannot comment on this book.  It seems to me though that you are quite willing to swallow that which is in print before you.  Perhaps I’m missing your posts as to where you stand on Jennifer’s column for I see no comments posted by you until you questioned me?  Finally, I did find a few of the statements odd, particularly about the “inexactness” of identifying plants…it almost seems as though the author sort of inserted his/her ideas into the ancient formulas in order to affirm what they were so hoping to find.  Another had to do with the population numbers during the plague were questionable and didn’t take contraception and abortion into account (or along those lines).  But that is just a quick lookover of some really repulsive ideas.  I’ll hold you in prayer.

It is a teachable moment. I pray that more priests take the example of your priest.

Mariann,

Let’s turn this around then.  Do you have any references that you can provide that will support your claim that “Up to 150 years ago (probably no more), contra(against)ception(life) was nonexistant“?  Or was that just your opinion?

Viv

Unfortunately-I find none of the priests & bishops have discussed the Catholic teachings on Fornication and Contraception, etc..it has been limited to Obama’s healthcare and signing petitions.  Truly Our Blessed Lord’s Way to Live in His Image- & strive to be ‘Holy’ has somehow been overlooked…let’s face it-the Priests & Bishops need to rid the schools, universities and Churches of all renegades and imposters to the Catholic faith-and have the Courage to be Shepherds that lead God’s sheep to Heaven!

In my short 40 years, I have never been a part of applause during a homily, much less a rousing standing ovation at the conclusion of one…I can finally say I have and it was a sight to behold.  Our Pastor of Christ the King Catholic Church in Little Rock delivered one of the most provocative homilies I have ever heard and took on, directly, the HHS mandate and the “...error - serious error - grave error - deadly error…” of the President and the HHS attack on conscience, religous freedom and the Church.  I encourage all to see a true defense of morality and a clarion call to act: http://www.ctklr.org/church/bulletin-board/homily-first-sunday-of-lent/
Finally, we must pray ever so vigilantly for our Pastors, our Bishops, our Cardinals who are strong enough to stand for what is right and are/will surely be attacked and demonized for it.

Mrs. CeeCee (I finally found your comment, so at least now I can address you by name!)  Sorry it took so long to get back to you, regarding your question about the scriptures that lead to the Church teaching against contraception.  I’m going to mostly paraphrase Kimberly Hahn in her book “Life-Giving Love”, and cite the scriptures that she cites.  I will break this down into several comments, because I know if I try to post it all in one comment it will be interpreted as spam.  So, to be continued in comment #2…

Comment #2 for Mrs. CeeCee:  As another commenter predicted, the first scriptural reference is Genesis 38:8-10, when Onan is instructed to perform his duty as brother-in-law by impregnating his brother’s wife.  He subsequently decides to spill his semen, and this was displeasing to the Lord.  Hahn points out that this is the only instance of contraception recorded in scripture, and it resulted in the death penalty.  The Leverite law required that when a man died without sons, his closest male kin was expected to marry his widow, and the first conceived son would be considered the dead brother’s child.  If the closest male kin refuses this duty, he is publicly humiliated, but does not receive the death penalty.  Therefore, the death penalty in this case applies to the act of contraception.  To be continued…

Response #3 for Mrs. CeeCee:  Hahn then goes on to cite Charles Provan, author of “The Bible and Birth Control”, who identifies several examples of sexual offenses in the Old Testament that received the death pentaly, and points out that all these offenses have one thing in common:  they are sterile sexual acts.  They are:

Leviticus 20:13 (male homosexual intercourse)
Leviticus 20:15 (male bestiality)
Leviticus 20:16 (female bestiality)

And then the Genesis scripture that I previously referenced. 

To be continued…

Wonderful article and noteworthy sermon by Fr. Jonathan, Jennifer. My wife and I are former St. Williams members, and we do miss it. But we love coming back now and then to see the glorious ordinations there! God Bless.

Response #4 for Mrs. CeeCee:

Kimberly Hahn then discusses three New Testament references which condemn pharmakeia (a Greek word which is the root of our English word “pharmaceutical”). When pharmakeia is condemned in Galations 5:19-26 and Revelation 9:21 and 21:8, the context is sexual immorality or sexual immorality and murder.  These scriptures have contributed to the Church teaching against drugs used for contraception and abortion.

Hope that helps.

Claire
  Hahn is not thinking on Onan.  Why isn’t coitus interruptus…very common in France in the 19th century according to a Fr. Gury writing then…why isn’t it condemned in Leviticus just as gay acts and bestiality are?  Answer it.
You can’t.  Neither breaking the levirate obligation nor coitus interruptus are punished strictly in the Mosaic law. Neither.  Neither.  Yet Catholic authors keep not noticing this two fold abscence.  They keep repeating mindlessly that the liverate offense has a light penalty without telling people coitus interruptus also does (see Douay Rheims/ Leviticus 15:16-15:18) if the Vulgate is preferred here (if not, coitus interruptus is not even given a penalty or a law).
  To convert the world, Catholic authors have to first be truthful about the Biblical facts.  They have to say: neither breaking the liverate obligation nor coitus interruptus are punished in the Bible.  And then proceed from there.  Alluding to other sterile acts doesn’t work because elderly sex and the sex of infertile couples are both permitted by the Church and
NFP people sometimes hope that a given act is sterile in truth.  So alluding to gay acts is off point.  It’s like saying..gays eat eggs so we shoukd avoid eggs.  The elderly and the infertile do not have to avoid sterile acts because gays do sterile acts.

Several years ago, a friend told me the contraception pill could possibly cause an abortion.  But I didn’t believe her.  This woman questions nothing.  She only repeats what she hears or reads from Catholic sources-and much of what she says can easily be proven to be incorrect.

It was only after I heard a panel of non-Catholic clergymen say the same thing a few weeks ago, right after the HHS decree, that I realized there could be something to what this woman told me, so long ago.

But I also know a woman that was proud of having been on the Rythmn system 50+ years ago, and she has 9 children!  I can’t imagine how many children she’d have, if she didn’t do any family planning at all.  15?

Bottom line, no matter how well meaning the people, I’d never take advice about anything as important as NFP from a Catholic that never questions anything or from a priest or bishop that never had to deal with marriage, parenting or having to work to send (9!!) children to college.

I’d want to listen to someone that honors God, but who also lives in the real workaday world, and who is compassionately understanding towards the lives of non-ordained lay people, and that is not an Idealist.

When that happens, then, we won’t need 5 minute reflective homilies, that so many people forget by the time Mass ends.  We can get back to meaningful sermons that impact people’s lives for the good because it’s based on TRUTH, and the source is TRUSTWORTHY.

Until that happens, let the buyer beware!  We really are on our own, as far as leaders go.  Test & question everything.  Everything.  Hold fast to what is proven true.

Don’t tell me what I can and can’t answer.  That’s just plain arrogance.  Onan engaged in coitus interrutpus.  Spilling the seed is uncompleted intercourse.  That is one version of coitus interruptus.  Gay acts are intrinsically sterile.  Infertility doesn’t equate sterility, and even if it did, the act itself is not intrinsically sterile.  That’s the difference.

Bill,

You appear to be very knowledgable about Old Testament scripture. However, you have to remember that the Bible came from the Church - not the other way around. In other words, the Church existed BEFORE the Bible. As far as interpreting scripture, you have to look at it from the lens of Jesus. It’s called typology: “The New Testament reveals what the Old Testament conceals.” You have to read the Old Testament as it points to Jesus and His Church. He established a Church - the Catholic Church. He is the Word of God - not the Bible. Onanism is an officially recognized sin in the Catholic Church.

There are plenty of Catholic scpirture scholars who would be happy to engage you. Go the Catholic Answers, which can be found at www.catholic.com. There are many Jewish and Protestant converts to Catholicism who are well-versed in scripture - Old and New Testament -  and can give you plenty of Catholic resources

Terah,

The pill can possibly cause an abortion because the pill prevents implantation. So, what if the egg was fertalized? Because it does not have the chance to be implanted in the uterus, it gets “evacuated” (i.e. aborted). So, although it does not “cause” abortions, it can prevent a fertilized egg from implanting, thus resulting in an abortion.

Priets aren’t the only ones that honor God. Many married men and women also honor God by living out their vocation as husband and wife - and bearing children. Children are ALWAYS a blessing!

Claire
  You were to explain why the Mosaic law had no great penalty for coitus interuptus if it mentioned it at all.  You didn’t explain.  I will await your explanation.

Rafael,
  The Church believed from 1253 to 1816 that torture was morally good.  Now the Church believes it is morally evil.  Third and Fourth Lateran gave slavery as a reward to privateers who captured colluders with Saracens.  Now Vat. II says it is shameful and John Paul says slavery is an intrinsic evil.  He’s incorrect because Gid gave chattel slavery (perpetual) to the Jews over foreignors in Leviticus.  In 1829 interest on a personal loan was sin, in 1831 the same act was not sin.  The Holy Spirit only perfectly guides morals when the Magisterium uses infallibility on morals as at Trent against divorce and as in abortion condemned by all Bishops polled by and under the Pope in section 62 of Evangelium Vitae.  See Ott for morals changing outside the infallible venue. (Intro to Fundamentals of Catholic Dogma online):

     “With regard to the doctrinal teaching of the Church it must be well noted that not all the assertions of the Teaching Authority of the Church on questions of Faith and morals are infallible and consequently irrevocable. Only those are infallible which emanate from General Councils representing the whole episcopate, and the Papal Decisions Ex Cathedra (cf. D 1839). The ordinary and usual form of the Papal teaching activity is not infallible. Further, the decisions of the Roman Congregations (Holy Office, Bible Commission) are not infallible. Nevertheless normally they are to be accepted with an inner assent which is based on the high supernatural authority of the Holy See (assensus internus supernaturalis, assensus religiosus). The so-called “silentium obsequiosum.” that is “reverent silence,” does not generally suffice. By way of exception, the obligation of inner agreement may cease if a competent expert, after a renewed scientific investigation of all grounds, arrives at the positive conviction that the decision rests on an error.”

    The Church now imprimaturs Grisez’s “Christian Moral Principles” for seminaries and page 854 allows studious, prayerful dissent of non experts in the non infallible despite and complementing Lumen Gentium 25’s “religious submission of mind and will”.  If one dissents on contraception, it must be done with fer of the Lord and in compliance with prayer and study.  The Popes know this and therefore Karl Rahner and Bernard Haring went uncensured by them on this area.

You can keep waiting, because I will no longer respond to your bossy, condescending tone.  No one tells me what I “were to do”.  Mrs. CeeCee asked me nicely to reference something for her, and I did it.  You aren’t interested in information, you are interested in a debate.  Which would probably be okay, except for your approach, which as I said, I will no longer be responding to.

Amen, sister, Amen!

Bill,

I’m sure you also believe that the Church carried out the Inquisition, along with all other other things that PEOPLE in the Church have done. Should one believe that the Church believes in sexual abuse due the behavior of some of the priests? You might arrive at the conclusion that this practice is acceptable by the Church - even though it was less than 2% of the priests. There’s a BIG difference in what people DO in the church versus what the Church TEACHES.

No Pope has ever contradicted another Pope on matters of Faith and Morals. And no Dogma has ever been reversed by any Pope. So, to try and “prove” that there is discrepancy where there is not is futile. There’s a difference between tradition (small “t”; i.e. not eating meat on Fridays) and Tradition (capital “T”; i.e. Jesus Christ is the Son of God): tradition can change (i.e. the re-newed use of the Latin Mass), but Tradition and Dogma cannot.

Nice try! But, I, too, can quote Papal encyclicals out of context. Someone on another post tried to use the Cathechism to justify contraception, using the “social teaching” of the Church for its reasoning as to why we should use contraception since it will help people deal with poverty. All Church teachings have to be taken as one - not as seperate bodies. The teachings DO NOT contradict each other, which is what you are asserting here.

Rafael
    The Inquisition was carried out by the Church under papal auspices.  Go to New Advent…“Inquisition”...go to the three paragraphs just above ” number of victims” section.  It is discussing how previous to 1253 it was secular rulers who burned heretics at the stake but in 1253, Popes make burning heretics mandatory and place it in canon law (then called the decretals):
” The civil authorities, therefore, were enjoined by the popes, under pain of excommunication to execute the legal sentences that condemned impenitent heretics to the stake.”

    Now in the same newadvent article go down to the Spanish Inquisition period and we find the source of the books you read apparently as Joseph de Maistre….go to “historical analysis” section:

    “Joseph de Maistre introduced the thesis that the Spanish Inquisition was mostly a civil tribunal; formerly, however, theologians never questioned its ecclesiastical nature. Only thus, indeed, can one explain how the Popes always admitted appeals from it to the Holy See, called to themselves entire trials and that at any stage of the proceedings, exempted whole classes of believers from its jurisdiction, intervened in the legislation, deposed grand inquisitors, and so on.”

    Later in 1520 Pope Leo X defends this burning of heretics at the stake against Luther who when young said it was against the Holy Spirit.  In “Exsurge Domine” Pope Leo X condemns article 33 ( Luther against burning heretics) as being against the Catholic Faith.  THUS POPE LEO X IS CONTRADICTED BY SECTION 80 OF “SPLENDOR OF THE TRUTH”
WHICH CALLS TORTURE AN INTRINSIC EVIL.

    You, Rafael, do not know the documentation sufficiently in the area you are expounding on.  A non infallible papal document can be contradicted by another non infallible papal document.  EXSURGE DOMINE IS CONTRADICTED BY SPLENDOR OF THE TRUTH.  Both are doctrinal but neither is infallible.  You Rafael believe that ll moral papal statements are infallible.  I just proved and Ludwig Ott states…they are not.  You are transmitting a pan infallibility to moral documents that they don’t have.
    In “Splendor of the Truth” section 80, John Paul wrote that deportation is an intrinsic evil.  He did not say some deportation but simply blanketly condemned the whole category of deportation.  Benedict knew it was false so in May of 2010, Benedict allowed the Italian government to deport two Muslim students from Italy who had been planning to kill Benedict.  You are not reading enough Rafael.  Better to go off the net and do several years of reading first.

I heard the US bishops are re-releasing their 2008 booklet encouraging Catholics to form their OWN conscience about major issues that involve morals. (Guide to Faithful Citizenship?)

Back in 2008, I know a woman who decided it was fine to support same-sex marriage.  Her conscience told her it was good.  A homily delivered by our pastor, pushing the idea of one’s conscience being subjective, cemented the deal for her.  She loved his homily, and the bishop’s guide.

If the bishops KNEW their 2008 Faithful Citizenship Guide was confusing and not clear enough 4 years ago, causing anyone to support what God calls an abomination, WHY would they re-release the same guide now, without changes or clarifications regarding what the Church teaches?

Toto, we aren’t in Kansas anymore.  Time for everyone, bishops among us, to wake up and smell the coffee.  Time for all of us to have courage.

As for priests using homilies and putting into PRACTICE what the “Church” officially teaches: they get in TROUBLE when they do!

A case in point:
Recently, a priest was rebuked by his bishop for refusing to give Communion at a funeral Mass to the lesbian daughter of the deceased.

Now the lesbian daughter wants the priest removed from the parish.  She is not satisfied with a mea culpa from the bishop, who scolded the priest (for honoring our Lord).  What a mess.  Where are our leaders?  Why the confusion about where the Church stands on moral issues?

Catholics (bishops, priests and the Vatican) had better get on the same page with what we teach, and major in matters with eternal value, and not in the minors (like pushing new liturgy words where we now worship off card board cards, and are not allowed to sing “Yahweh” in hymns).

Bishops need to put out a booklet of IMPORTANT matters that have eternal value & be sure their priests teach it.

With the President’s mandate being upheld by the senate already, we need Church leaders with courage, wisdom and clout.  Part of wisdom is to continue to reach out to like-minded Americans, fellow Christians in the Body of Christ.

I applaud the bishops for being part of the Manhattan Declaration, a non-denominational effort to preserve “traditional”, or for those of you that prefer it: “Traditional” marriage.

Bill,

Go sell your anti-Catholic propaganda somewhere else because I aint buyin’! You’ve picked the wrong web-site to advance your venom and hatred. Go start a debate with true Catholic theologians on this matter.

You are free to disagree with the Church. You are not being forced to become Catholic. But, we have the right to practice our faith in this country - despite your obvious hatred for the Church. But no one - not you, not Obama, not anyone else - will impose your Anti-Catholic, secularist views on us. And your supposed “rational” arguements based on half-truths, mis-quotes, and lies makes you that much more guilty of advancing evil by violating one of the commandments. In your attempt to bring “justice” by trying to expose how “unjust” the Church is, you advance your hatred further, which cancells out any “good” intention that you may have had when you came here. You don’t act unjustly to arrive at justice. You fight injustice with love, not hatred. The Church is coming from a position of love for God and humanity: you are coming from a position of hate and anger. And by defaming the Church further, you committ a greater sin.

I do not admit to be a theologian. But, I know enough about the Truth of who Jesus is - and His Church - to stand firmly at its side and defend Her. You seem so eager to point out the negative things about the Church and fail to point out the good it does, which is proof of your bias. And believe me: the Good FAR OUTWEIGHS the bad. I am well aware of the Church’s faults because we are human. But, its teachings are PERFECT and they lead you to God, not away from Him.

I question more of your motive to come here and challenge us. I know why you are doing it: if you can “prove” some error in the positions of the Church, therefore it discredits the WHOLE TRUTH of what the Church stands for. So, if the Church is wrong on one thing, therefore, you will conclude, on what other things are they in error on? ALL this effort to “prove” the Church in error because you disagree with its moral position on contraception. And all because you fail to measure up to its standards. Well, guess what? We ALL fail to measure up to its standards. That’s why God is SO merciful that he offers a sacrament of healing called penance. But, our model of perfection is Jesus - not the human part of the Church - and we need to strive to be like Him. And the closer we can be like Him, the happier we will be.

You are obviously anti-Catholic. You remind of St. Paul and how he knew so much about the Church that he hatred it and spent a greater part of his life persecuting it. But, in the end Jesus would have the final say. I can almost hear Jesus saying now, “Bill, Bill, Why do you persecute me?”

Rafael,
     Once again your long post contains Rafael’s mind and its thoughts…and  absolutely no scholarship and no text from Church sources.  I cited newadvent website’s Catholic Encyclopedia on the Inquisition and you went postal.  It’s a conservative website.  Jennifer Fulwiler, who started this thread currently has an article there…click on the link

http://www.newadvent.org/

     The Catholic Church is Holy but you, like Pius XII, overstate what that means.  He held the Church responsible for nothing bad that it did throughout history.  Vatican II corrected him implicitly in several places because it noted that scripture says the Church will not be cleansed into perfection until the end of time.

Lumen Gentium Vat. II chap.1 section 8
     ” While Christ, holy, innocent and undefiled(81) knew nothing of sin,(82) but came to expiate only the sins of the people,(83) the Church, embracing in its bosom sinners, at the same time holy and always in need of being purified, always follows the way of penance and renewal.”

        ibid Chapter VII section 48
    ” for the Church already on this earth is signed with a sanctity which is real although imperfect.”

      Mary was sinless.  You are confusing her with the Church who is the Bride of Christ not the mother of Christ.  Pope Leo XIII also had your problem.  He wrote a history of the Church and slavery to the Bishops of Brazil which praised the Popes on slavery.  Scholars easily can show now that he was over praising them.  You can easily do that by going to Romanus Pontifex online, mid fourth large paragraph where Pope Nicholas V gave Portugal’s Prince the right to perpetually enslave any enemies of Christ in the newly discovered world in that age of exploration.  The Bishops and Pope John XXIII at Vatican II were tired of the coverup trend in Catholic history.
      Growth Rafael….hurts.

Bill,

You are not going to convince me of anything you are saying by taking things out of context. It’s obvious you’ve read these documents. But, you continue to create controversy where there is no controversy. You are using tactics of the media to take one line out of one document - out of context - and take another line out of another document - again out of context - and create a controvesy, a schism.

That does not work with me!

Take for instance in the Cathechism in the social teaching (under the section for the commandment “Thou Shall Not Steal”) where the Church condems both socialism and capatalism. But, it also states that one is entitled to private property (which is a major proponent of capitalism). Is there a controversy? No. Also, the Church talks about a “preferential option for the poor,” (a central dogma of Marxism and socialism) which has been misinterprted by Catholic Scholars for years, particulalry left-leaning Bishops and priests which resulted in liberation theology (which was condemned by John Paul II). The CCC also talks about the evils of dicrimination. Yet there is something called “just discrimination”. Are these in opposition? No. Also, the media is quick to point out the evils of racism by white people and yet ignore the reverse-racism by blacks. The Church also says that you should not murder, yet you have the right to defend yourself - even if the result is death of your attacker.

There’s no doubt that certain Popes have done wrong in history. I’m not disputing that. But, in matters of faith and morals, there is no controversy - despite the examples you have cited. Unfortunately, I’m not as prepared as you in being able to cite - appropriately and in context - the documents so as to refute your assertions. But, I trust those who I’ve listened to on these matters.

Is it really “growth” if you act childish and come on to a Catholic web-site and “pout” under the guise of intellectual honesty and logic and reason? Your practice of anti-Catholicism is based on negatives: It’s not “pro-something”, it’s “anti-something”. You don’t even offer an alternative. You hide behind attacks against the Church without offering something “better.” If you’re so intellectually “honest”, present your alternative…

Rafael
    You had days now to read any of my cites in context.  You didn’t.  My posts all have one theme which is summed up by Ludwig Ott way above and he was the main author on Catholic dogmatics in the mid 20th century.  That theme is that the Vatican and Popes can err on morals IF THEY DO NOT access the charism of infallibility.  Pope John Paul II in
” Splendor of the Truth” called slavery an intrinsic evil.  Here is God giving chattel permanent slavery to the Jews (God does not give intrinsic evils….John Paul II was wrong in that moral area):
      Leviticus
25:44-46…” You may also buy them from among the aliens who reside with you and from their children who are born and reared in your land. Such slaves you may own as chattels,
46 and leave to your sons as their hereditary property, making them perpetual slaves. But you shall not lord it harshly over any of the Israelites, your kinsmen.”

Summary of all I’ve said:  To the extent that Catholics do not read beyond the moderate to light level, they will continue to
                            tell the world that Popes are always correct on morals.  And therefore the more intelligent non
                            Christians like many Asians in our best schools will think Catholicism is dumb since it does not
                            read it’s own documents even though
                              it praises those documents by habit not through reading them.
FINIS

Bill,

Again, you quoting things out of context for “days now” is irrelevant because if you are wrong now, you were wrong back then. Also, to claim that a Pope was “wrong in that moral area” qualifies YOU as a moral authority, to which I say: By what authority do you claim to be qualified to able to make those judgements? You are pronouncing YOURSELF to be a moral authority. Does that not then make you some kind of “pope”? If that is the case, then this is not the forst time in history that someone has challenged the Church on moral authority. So, your rhetoric is nothing new: You just decorate it differently.

Also, to make the assertion that I am not capable of defending the Church because I am not supporting it with documents is also irrelevant because Truth is not limited to only those with intelligence. And to claim to have knowledge of something does not mean that one is wise. And Wisdom is far superior to knowledge. Does it really matter what “more intelligent non-Christians like many Asians in our best school” think? And who gave you judgement that because one is non-Christian makes them “more intelligent”? Your arrogance contradicts a spirit of humility. And what are “the best” schools (judgment call)? What “criteria” is utilized to qualify them as “the best”? If you are referring to Ivy League institutions, most of the professors are Atheists and Anti-Catholic, Anti-Jewish, Anti-religion. And THAT’s not ojective science. Because objective science does not rule out a religion JUST BECAUSE it’s religious. Truth can be found anywhere. Even an atheist can utter some truth on ocassion (even a broke clock is right twice a day).

Here’s a link to a discussion on Ludwig Ott and infallability:

http://www.ewtn.com/library/doctrine/TRIGINFL.HTM

I go to Mass almost every day but have never heard a homily about contraception and rarely, very rarely, about abortion.

If Pelosi and other prominent Catholic politicians continue to receive Communion as Catholics in good standing, despite their anti-life, anti-Church, anti-Bishop agendas, nothing will change - nothing.

Someone commented that NCR does not edit/reject comments,but a computer does it if they are too long, so I went back and shortened my comment-respectful comment-about anti-lifers like Pelosi being permitted by the Bishops to receive Holy Communion and the comment was still rejected..so there is definitely editing going on…I think. Too bad.

There is no editing going on here!  Look through the comments and you’ll find that many of them are dissenting!  Sometimes, for whatever reason, the computer views some comments as spam, or neglects to post them.  It’s usually because they’re long, but sometimes there is no discernible reason behind it.  This has happened to me many times, usually with long comments, but sometimes even with short comments, and my comments are not dissenting.  It is more common for this to happen on weekends.  Many times on a Monday morning, when a moderator is back at work, the comments get released.  What I would encourage you to do is to copy and paste your comments (shortening them or separating them into a series of comments is a good idea), and then re-post them on Monday if they don’t go through on the weekend.

And, I see two comments from you above, including the one about Pelosi.  (Which I commend you for posting, by the way!)

I just noticed that the comments following the article about Cardinal Dolan have all been disposed of. Why is that I wonder?

Feb. 3rd: thanks Claire. It is so discouraging at times when comments that are well thought out just seem to disappear. It worries those of us in the pro life community that Pelosi and her ‘Catholic’ allies are permitted to consider themselves Catholics in good standing and receive the Eucharist. Pelosi is getting more defiant and aggressive and yet she marches up to receive the Eucharist like any good Catholic. People are hurt and confused and anti-lifers are victorious. I’ll try to post during the week. I did try shorter comments but they didn’t get through. Thanks for the advice.

When one of your hidden priest are sodomizing a young boy - is he allowed to wear a condom?  Or would that be forced contraceptions.  By performing felation of young victims are the priest teaching abstience…or just pushing the doctrine down the throat of the young.  Stop hiding the molesters, they should be imprisoned…not covered by you lies and bankruptcy.

I am Catholic, I was born that way and will always be. I was taught first by my parents about God and Jesus. I developed my own very personal relationship with God and Jesus at a very young age. It was not through or by way of the church, the church simply nurtured that relationship. When I got married, we vowed to “accept children lovingly by God.” We lovingly and joyfully accepted three. In my heart, I knew we were supposed to have three. Yet after two, I was comfortable and really couldn’t imagine planning for a third. We were just “winging it” at the time, but “abstinence” isn’t in my vocabulary - one of the perks of marraige is to be able to make love whenever you want! I have a very regular cycle, so I guess we were doing “NFP”... Well, I became pregnant with our third. Wow! “Unplanned” and shocking, but not a surprise. I already knew before I got pregnant that I was going to have a third, a girl. I knew her name and even what her bedroom would look like. And so she came. I realize not everyone may experience this kind of clarity, but the key is to accept children lovingly. I believe God is truly in charge. Whether you take the pill or use NFP, it doesnt’ matter, we’re trying to outwit God and nature. Human efforts we make to feel in control. But we all know the saying, “we make plans and God laughs.” Regardless what birth control method you use, not even a vasectomy is 100%. We like to think we have some control over our lives and God gives us the power of free will and the ability to make decisions. However, if God wants to give you the gift of life, He will. No matter what, that gift will find a way to you. And if it comes, accept the gift. Even if there’s complications, even if you think you’re going to die, accept the gift. You may even be meant to give that gift to someone else. The mistake is in rejecting the gift, because every life, even if that life lasts a few moments or a hundred years, it is precious and has a purpose.

...Aaaaannnnndddd! The award for the lamest “Anderson’s Law” invocation goes to…Turk Koslowitz!  Bravo, Turk. 
Now step away from your computer and get out the door to the church, mosque or synagogue of your choice.

Excellent article. Yes, Jennifer we are ready to hear the truth.. As I stood on a security line at an airport in the Caribbean, a beautiful young woman standing behind me on the very slow line, coming from a singles club vacation, remarked on my asking how her vacation was, said ” I am tired of the meat market”, contraception mentality has created just that, a woman is just another piece of meat. Sex without responsibility has caused this.
Our Catholic Church is the last hope in this world.
God bless your priest and his flocks response for his sermon. May God give courage to the rest of his shepherds.

I don’t believe applause is appropriate at any time during the Liturgy.

However I am encouraged to hear of this instance of people rallying behind their pastor.  We must rally behind our priests and bishops as they speak the Truth that will set us free.

NFP_Disaster

I have used NFP for 15 years, two children - 6 years apart.
I also had to abstain for a year b/c I too had the constant “fertile sign.”
That was awful, and I knew enough the only way to really avoid a pregnancy was to abstain. So we did. I have serious reasons to space, and have. I don’t even chart now, because I know my signs so well and yes, I only have relations twice a month.

NFP teachers need to tell the truth. NFP works, but there’s no room for error b/c unlike the abortafacient pill, there’s no “back up” - the pill MAY stop ovulation, IF NOT the uterine wall is too thin to support fertilized egg, hence early abortion. Also,IUD is a abortafacient- does your wife want that on her conscience or yours?

I’d try the sypto-thermal method and maybe the Marquette method w/ electronic ovulation monitoring. NFP teachers this is why you should be open to teaching/reccomending ALL methods. I started w/ Creighton went to sympto-thermal and now back w/ Creighton.

It’s not easy, but I don’t worry about early abortions and breast cancer risk. Give NFP another shot, consider it reperation for sin ;-)

To NFP Vet- Your story is sad.  The Bible says that a husband and wife are only to be apart for a season of time agreed upon by both, and it is to get closer to God.

How much healthier it would be to have a married priesthood, with married bishops, that know what it is like to walk the walk, and not just talk the talk.

It’s so confusing - even if Father did preach on contraception, he’d not be trusted by most.

@bill, Why are you for artificial contraception?  To accomplish what?  Can you not see what havoc it has caused in society?  Are we the better for it?  The Catholic church does differentiate between DOGMA and then wisdom and teachings that flow forth from that TRUTH of dogma.  What I don’t understand is what you are trying to accomplish.

Terah James-
If you think we did not grow closer to God through abstinence, I guess you have heard of the fruits of sacrifice. :-) And it was our choice, not quite sure why you assumed I just kept myself from my husband.

CorrectIon: Terah James-
If you think we did not grow closer to God through abstinence, I guess you have NOT heard of the fruits of sacrifice. :-) And it was our choice, not quite sure why you assumed I just kept myself from my husband

Read more: http://www.ncregister.com/blog/father-were-ready-for-that-homily-on-contraception-now/#ixzz1oRzUuxgG

@ NFP Disaster

Do you and your wife realize that an IUD is NOT a contraceptive?  A contraceptive must prevent conception and IUDs do NOT do that, ever. 

What an IUD does, when it works, is prevent implantation of an embryo.  That means it’s an abortefacient.  A baby has been conceived but kept from growing in the uterus so it dies.  As a Catholic, you should care about that even if your wife doesn’t.  Women with IUDs may conceive and abort several times a year and you are participating in her use of an abortefacient.

Your wife may not care that she’s using an abortefacient, but she should care about what happens when an IUD doesn’t work.  When your IUD fails, you either have a baby nine months later or you have an ectopic pregnancy, an embryo implanted outside the uterus, which is a risk to the mother’s life and must be surgically removed.  I’ve been through this and childbirth is much, much easier.  There is a higher rate of ectopic pregnancies among women using IUDs since the IUD does not prevent conception, is only meant to keep embryos from implanting in the uterus.

From what you’ve said about your wife, it seems likely that she would not be able to deal with it if her IUD failed and she became pregnant again.  Perhaps you and she ought to have a conference with her OB-GYN and make it clear to him, or her, how much she fears another pregnancy, and ask for help.

Do you think President Obama is aware of the fact that across the USA, on the Catholic parish level,there has been a virtual silence on the subject of contraception? This silence has been for many years yet witness the fact that on any given time Mass is celebrated, almost 100% of those present go up to recive Holy Communion.

We are all well aware of the overwhelming percentage of Catholic women who practise contraception.

I was a little surprised when our priest started talking about contraception in the homily. Throughout the entire Iraq war, which the Church in Rome opposed, I waited and waited for our priest to speak out against the ruthless murder our tax dollars were being used for. I waited seven years, while children and women died in droves, yet heard nothing from the pulpit. The silence was, as they say, deafening.
  So it was with a little surprise when our priest suddenly started talking politics from the pulpit. I had assumed that since the blatant horror of the war were not a proper subject for Mass, then politics in general were off limits. Any guesses why preemptive war would fail to spark a sermon, but ladies taking the pill is being addressed from so many pulpits?
    Doesn’t add up. Which makes me wonder if this new “controversy” isn’t just more of the obnoxious culture war. I truly hope our priests and bishops felt as upset by the mass murder of Iraq as they do about women’s sex lives.

It’s not about women’s sex lives.  Sex and politics are not the primary issue.  The issue is religious freedom, and religious employers being forced to pay for something that goes against their beliefs.  That is worth mentioning from the pulpit. 

I also never hear homilies about abortion, which totally outnumbers the murders that have occurred in Iraq.

I hope that speaking out about contraception and religious freedom helps priests find their voices, so that they will continue to address a range of hard topics from the pulpit!

Congratulations to your brave priest!  I am fortunate that in three different churches we attend (based on when we get everyone ready!) I have heard preaching on contraception from every priest, and this goes back many years.  But I know first-hand that not all priests are on the same page, when it comes to contraception. When my husband and I were getting married, over 25+ years ago, we asked our priest, then, “What about contraception?”  He told us it was a “grey area.”  Only by God’s grace, were we led in the correct direction.

NFP Vet - wow! I can’t even imagine the hardship of that. Yes, sacrifice helps us grow, but, WOW! I don’t know your situation, but am also an nfp vet who has been observing fertility signs for thirty years now. I’m thinking you might need some other tools to help you with that safe window - perhaps opk, or ovucue. Are you using STM which would point out ovulation has occured? With such a tiny window, you must have short cycles and short luteal phases - if so, see an nfp only doc and make sure your hormone balances are adequate.

I am SO glad I’m not Catholic!And positively giddy to be menopausal! Hot flashes suck, but I’ll take them over fertility any day!

That’s really sad, “Happy One”.  I would gladly take your former fertility off your hands.

Claire, if there were any way to give it to you I gladly would. I agree that it’s a sad roll of the dice that some folks who would love to have children cannot, and some of us who are(were) fertile have to spend our adult lives trying (in my case successfully) to avoid pregnancy. It’s just what was right for myself and my husband. We both knew from the beginning that parenthood just was not something we wanted. And it has worked out very well for us. Not that that makes your situation any better.  I don’t know you or your situation and therefore can’t comment on it.

BULLSHIT

There is no evidence to back these claims; correlation does not imply causality. The author herself wrote most of the articles that she uses to support her views, and they also do not show any evidence - they are, at best, opinion pieces with the rare statistic which she hopes nobody bothers to verify because the context totally obliterates her argument.

For example, in the article “Amanda Marcotte is Right to be Upset”, the author claims the idea that contraceptives prevent pregnancy is incorrect, writing “a woman using a method of birth control with a 99 percent success rate has a 70 percent chance of experiencing an unexpected pregnancy over a 10-year period.” First of all, the birth control methods used have a 95% success rate - the PROBABILITY of success is 99% (due to other factors). Secondly, these calculations assume the couple is young with “undiminished fecundity”, which hardly applies to every case. Lastly, it’s obvious that the probablity of birth control failure increases the more a couple has sex - this does not mean that birth control does not work.

The author also goes on to say, “Again from the Guttmacher Institute, more than half of the woman who get abortions were using contraception when they conceived their child. [sic]” This statement is incorrect - the study actually states that 54% of the women who got an abortion “had used a contraceptive method during the month they got pregnant.” Using contraception in the same month is NOT the same as using it during conception. In addition, only 28% of the women used condoms and 19% used the pill - we do not know if the remaining 52% used effective methods. Finally, the study goes on to say that “76% of pill users and 49% of condom users report having used their method inconsistently while 13% of pill users and 14% of condom users report correct use.” So basically the author claims “more than half” of women who get abortions used contraceptives during conception, but in reality, most of the women used unknown (and possibly ineffective) contraceptive methods during the MONTH of conception, and the ones who used condoms and/or the pill failed to use them correctly. Contraceptives don’t work? Your argument is obliterated.

In addition to her insubstantiated claims, the author’s complete misunderstanding and/or intentional misrepresentation of statistics is rather ironic considering that she links to an article (“The claim that 98 percent of Catholic women use contraception: a media foul”) which condemns the media for this exact crime.